Knicks & Wolves Back In The Series?

Summary

Podcast Summary: "Knicks & Wolves Back In The Series?"

Podcast Information:

• Title: Brian Windhorst & The Hoop Collective
• Host/Author: ESPN, NBA, Brian Windhorst
• Description: Brian Windhorst and a team of ESPN's Insiders sort out life in and around the NBA world.
• Episode: Knicks & Wolves Back In The Series?
• Release Date: May 26, 2025

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1. Introduction

In this episode of The Hoop Collective, Brian Windhorst hosts a dynamic discussion with ESPN insiders Tim Bontemps and Ben McMahon. The primary focus is on the intense NBA playoff series between the New York Knicks and the Minnesota Timberwolves, examining pivotal games, player performances, and coaching strategies.

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2. Eastern Conference: Knicks vs. Pacers

a. Knicks' Dramatic Comeback in Game Three

The conversation kicks off with an analysis of the Knicks' remarkable turnaround in Game Three against the Indiana Pacers. Initially trailing by 20 points in the first half, the Knicks seemed on the verge of elimination. However, a dramatic resurgence in the fourth quarter secured their victory.

Brian Windhorst remarked at [01:10], "If I had to put it in meme form, I would use the Undertaker meme with him getting up off the mat."

b. Carl Anthony Towns' Pivotal Performance

A focal point of the discussion is Knicks' center Carl Anthony Towns, whose performance in the fourth quarter was instrumental in the Knicks' comeback. Despite a subdued start, Towns exploded with 14 points in the final four minutes, showcasing his versatility and scoring prowess.

Tim Bontemps highlighted at [02:17], "Carl Towns comes out to start the fourth quarter. Knicks are down 10... he scores 14 points in the first four minutes of the quarter."

Ben McMahon added at [04:07], "Josh Brunson didn't have a great game by his standards... he was the closer and made the game-winning basket."

c. Jalen Brunson's Role and Impact

Jalen Brunson's performance was a double-edged sword in the series. While he's potentially the MVP of the playoffs, his fluctuating form has impacted the team's dynamics. His exit and subsequent return in pivotal moments were crucial to the Knicks' strategy.

Brian Windhorst noted at [07:07], "Jalen Brunson is potentially the MVP of the playoffs so far."

d. Tom Thibodeau's Coaching Strategies

Head coach Tom Thibodeau's adjustments, prompted by foul troubles and defensive strategies, played a significant role in the Knicks' resurgence. His decision to limit the on-court time of key players led to a tighter defense and ultimately, a win.

Brian Windhorst observed at [01:55], "Tom Thibodeau searching like crazy for something that would work... resulted in better defense."

e. Statistical Insights on Playoff Comebacks

The trio delves into the broader trend of comebacks in the NBA playoffs, emphasizing the Knicks' ability to recover from substantial deficits. They reference historical data showing an increase in such comebacks, attributing it to factors like the rise of the three-point shot and a faster pace of play.

Ben McMahon pointed out at [16:38], "The Knicks are the first team to come back from 20 plus, down three times in the same postseason since at least '98."

Brian Windhorst added at [17:37], "We are in the comeback era of the NBA for two big reasons... the three-pointer and the pace of play."

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3. Western Conference: Timberwolves vs. Thunder

a. Timberwolves' Aggressive Play and Frustrations

Shifting focus to the Western Conference, the discussion covers the Timberwolves' aggressive gameplay against the Thunder. Tensions arose from foul calls and strategic play adjustments, leading to benching key players and altering the team's lineup dynamics.

Ben McMahon commented at [33:03], "The Timberwolves were frustrated because they feel like Shay's getting a good whistle on one end and they're not getting the whistle on the other end."

b. Impact of Player Injuries

Player injuries, notably Aaron Nesmith's ankle sprain, were discussed as pivotal moments that influenced game outcomes. The injury occurred midway through the third quarter, adding complexity to the team's performance in the latter stages of the game.

Brian Windhorst noted at [22:36], "Aaron Neesmith was walking around with a limp... something to monitor."

c. Coaching Decisions and Lineup Changes

Coaching strategies, including the use of multiple lineups and bench rotations, were scrutinized. The Timberwolves' coach, Chris Finch, faced criticism for his handling of player fouls and the subsequent impact on team cohesion during crucial game moments.

Brian Windhorst remarked at [09:31], "The Knicks played 15 lineups tonight and, like, six, seven of them had never played together before."

d. Team Morale and Leadership

Despite on-court challenges, team leaders like Julius Randall demonstrated professionalism and resilience. Their ability to maintain composure and motivate teammates was highlighted as a strength amid adversity.

Ben McMahon praised at [43:00], "Julius Randall was a total 100% pro... he played his best ball down the stretch."

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4. General Playoff Trends and Dynamics

a. The "Comeback Era" in the NBA

The hosts discuss the evolving nature of playoff basketball, where comebacks have become more common due to strategic shifts like increased three-point shooting and a faster game tempo. This trend has made playoff series more unpredictable and exciting.

b. Influence of Rule Changes

New timeout rules were identified as contributing factors to the rise in comebacks, with teams managing timeouts in ways that add complexity to late-game scenarios.

Tim Bontemps explained at [18:12], "New timeout rule... leads to a lot more chaos in the final seconds."

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5. Personal Anecdotes and Team Dynamics

Interspersed with in-depth analysis, the hosts share lighthearted moments and personal anecdotes, offering listeners a glimpse into the camaraderie and behind-the-scenes aspects of NBA reporting. Discussions about team locker rooms, player interactions, and off-court activities add a relatable dimension to the episode.

Ben McMahon humorously shared at [47:31], "I had to pack for eight games, so that's eight suits... and another pair of kicks."

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6. Conclusion and Looking Ahead

The episode wraps up with anticipation for the upcoming Game Four in both series. The hosts express excitement for the continued drama and high-stakes competition, promising more in-depth analysis and updates in future episodes.

Brian Windhorst concluded at [50:54], "Thank you to Jackson, our producer. Thank you to McMahon, thank you to Bontemps... We'll be talking to you after the game."

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Notable Quotes:

• Brian Windhorst [01:10]: "If I had to put it in meme form, I would use the Undertaker meme with him getting up off the mat."

• Tim Bontemps [02:17]: "Carl Towns comes out to start the fourth quarter. Knicks are down 10... he scores 14 points in the first four minutes of the quarter."

• Ben McMahon [04:07]: "Josh Brunson didn't have a great game by his standards... he was the closer and made the game-winning basket."

• Ben McMahon [33:03]: "The Timberwolves were frustrated because they feel like Shay's getting a good whistle on one end and they're not getting the whistle on the other end."

• Ben McMahon [43:00]: "Julius Randall was a total 100% pro... he played his best ball down the stretch."

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This episode of The Hoop Collective offers a comprehensive look into two thrilling NBA playoff series, blending strategic analysis with player insights and engaging banter. Whether you're a die-hard fan or a casual observer, the discussion provides valuable perspectives on the unfolding drama in the basketball world.

Transcript

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[Brian Windhorst]

Welcome to the Hoop Collective podcast. We talk about the NBA, which we're doing a little after midnight, east coast time on Monday morning. Joining us from Indianapolis, the Gainesbridge field house is Tim Bontemps.

[Tim Bontemps]

Hello, everybody.

[Brian Windhorst]

What a conference finals game you had there. Now we got eastern conference finals, Mr. Bontemps.

[Tim Bontemps]

We do.

[Ben McMahon]

It's true.

[Brian Windhorst]

Over here in the Western Conference, all the way up in Minneapolis. Joining me on a different floor. I don't know what floor he's on. I don't want to know. Is Ben McMahon.

[Ben McMahon]

Howdy, partners. Maybe at some point we'll get a competitive game in this series.

[Brian Windhorst]

That would be nice. 42 points in game three. Not what I was expecting. All right, we're going to start in the east with the Knicks. I feel like the. If I had to put it in meme form, I would use the undertaker meme with him getting up off the mat. The Knicks down 20 in the first half, down 10 going to the fourth quarter. Although going down, going into the fourth quarter. Bond attempts, they look like they were getting a little bit of traction, but to me, and we haven't talked at all about this game, so I don't know what you're going to say. And you were there. To me, this game was about Tom Thibodeau searching like crazy for something that would work and him being compelled due to foul trouble. I doubt it was in his strategy. His strategy, but compelled due to foul trouble to play Jalen Brunson and Carl Towns together less. And as a result, the Knicks played better defense. And as a result, they came back and won. I don't know how you saw it, Bon th, but that's what I'd say.

[Tim Bontemps]

I mean, I mean, that is. That is partially true. You know, Jalen Brunson had four fouls in the first half. Carl Towns had three in the first half.

[Brian Windhorst]

Gave the ref the thumbs up. Jaylen gave him the thumbs up.

[Tim Bontemps]

Yeah, Jaylen was very unhappy with the refs. He spent most of the fourth quarter watching from the bench while Carl cooked. But to me, this night was about one thing. It was about Carl Towns having the moment of his career. This is a guy who has made all NBA teams. This is a guy who's had a lot of success. Also a guy who has been poked at a lot of for his performances in big spots. And the first three quarters of this game, Carl Towns and the Knicks were horrendous. They were. Carl had four points, they were floating around. They fell behind by 20 in the second quarter. They looked like they were going to get run off the court. They might have been run off the court if Aaron Nesmith doesn't sprain his ankle halfway through the third quarter and sort of send the game into kind of a weird stretch in the second half of the third. But Carl Towns comes out to start the fourth quarter. Knicks are down 10, season's on the line, obviously already lost the first two games at home. He scores 14 points in the first four minutes of the quarter. Made shots from all over the place. He's dunking on people for and ones. He's hitting threes from 30ft away. I mean, obviously he is one of the most talented scorers at seven feet we've ever seen. And he put all that stuff on display in the fourth quarter of this game. And when the Knicks traded for him back in September, you make that trade because you believe Carl Towns can deliver in moments like this, and he did. And for all the other chaos that went on in this game, for all the other issues the Knicks have had in this series, they still have a chance to win it. They still have a chance to get to the finals. As Carl Towns, in the biggest moment of his career to date, delivered in a way that, frankly, I did not think he was going to be capable of doing.

[Ben McMahon]

How come you don't say his full name? I'm very.

[Tim Bontemps]

Because I'm tired and I don't feel like saying all.

[Brian Windhorst]

A lot of people, I always call him Carl Towns.

[Ben McMahon]

The man's name is Carl Anthony Towns. Give him the full respect.

[Brian Windhorst]

Okay?

[Tim Bontemps]

I gave him a lot of respect today because that was big. That was a moat. That was a big time. That was just a big time, big time performance.

[Ben McMahon]

Hey, self proclaimed greatest shooting big man of all time. And, and came through in the fourth quarter with that kind of performance. But it wasn't just shooting. It was an all around scoring exhibition. Like you said, 20 points in the fourth quarter when the Knicks desperately needed it. I mean, if they don't come back and win that game, we're wasting time. Game 4, Brunson on the bench most.

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Of the fourth quarter.

[Ben McMahon]

Brunson didn't have a great game by his standards. You know, made some plays down the stretch, but they desperately needed Cat to have an all NBA kind of performance. And it took a while, but he delivered with not just the game, but with their season on the line.

[Tim Bontemps]

Well, and this is the one other thing, to Brian's point, the story of the past two days was Carl having a terrible defensive performance in game two and that playing a big part in the Knicks going to Mitchell Robinson in the starting lineup. Mitchell Robinson played 30 seconds in the fourth quarter of this game. Carl Towns was out there as the lone big the entire quarter they held the Pacers, one of the best offenses in the league, to 20 points. He held up defensively at the same time, right? This was at both ends. Exactly what the Knicks needed from him in a gigantic spot. And the craziest part was he was horrible the rest of the game. Like, he and the Knicks were just completely dead in the water. And yes, they hit a couple shots late in the third to get it to 10. I didn't think they had a chance of coming back in the game at that point. It didn't really feel like they were getting anywhere. Then all of a sudden, Carl comes out, becomes a human flamethrower, and the game is tied four minutes in.

[Ben McMahon]

Well, and it's crazy, you know, and when they're making shots, the Pacers are taking the ball out of the basket. Halliburton was not able to dictate tempo whatsoever in the fourth quarter. I believe they had zero fast break points in the fourth quarter. And, you know, a lot like Minnesota did to Oklahoma City for all of game three. Like, if you can prevent the Thunder from creating points off turnovers, you've got a chance to make them look like a pretty mediocre offense. Now you're talking about preventing the best team in the league by far at creating and converting turnovers from doing that, it's. It's easier said than done. Same thing with the Pacers as far as like pushing the pace, getting out in transition. If you can take that away from them, which is a lot easier said than done, but if you can do that, then, you know, it's a different beast if they have to grind out possessions in the half court. And that's exactly what happened in the fourth quarter.

[Brian Windhorst]

Not sure he was so much of a flamethrower is that he was very aggressive. Going to the basket. Like he totally felt the need to force the issue.

[Tim Bontemps]

Well, I just meant getting hot, period. But yeah, you're right. But he was aggressive. He was aggressive in every way.

[Brian Windhorst]

And again, before I talk about this, I really want to be clear. Obviously, Jalen Brunson is potentially the MVP of the playoffs so far. And by the way, when he came back in with the last two minutes, he was totally the closer and made.

[Tim Bontemps]

A huge driving beat, layup hit the game winning bucket. Guy was horrible again. He was horrible the entire game. He comes in after basically not playing in the fourth quarter. He immediately scores what ends up being the game winning basket.

[Brian Windhorst]

I think they won this game because they didn't play together. And again, that is not a judgment on Jalen Brunson the closer. Jalen Brunson the player. It is not a judgment on Carl Towns. It is a judgment on. In this particular matchup, the reason that Carl Towns was able to have that quarter was. Was because Jalen Brunson wasn't out there.

[Tim Bontemps]

I mean, yes and no. They got obliterated in the second quarter when only Brunson was out there.

[Brian Windhorst]

Well, I just say this. In the game, Towns is a plus six. Jalen is a minus six. And that minus six was with him going down the stretch. He crushed.

[Ben McMahon]

I. It is because that, that stat is primarily because Cat caught fire in the fourth quarter and I think flamethrower is appropriate. Six and nine from the floor. Three of four from three point range. I mean, yes, more aggressive. Also five, six from line, but you know, three or four from three point range. One of them absolutely should have been an and one. I mean, but it just a high degree of difficulty shot. But he's, he's plus 14.

[Brian Windhorst]

Okay through. Through three quarters. Brunson's minus 15. The worst on the team.

[Tim Bontemps]

Yes, I think, yes, I think that.

[Brian Windhorst]

It'S not a commentary on him. And by the way, Rick Carlisle said it. Rick Carlisle said it in the post game.

[Tim Bontemps]

Yes, he did.

[Brian Windhorst]

And it doesn't sound like anyone's listened to him. He said they played their better defensive players.

[Tim Bontemps]

Well, he got asked about them not scoring as much in the second half and he said they played their better defensive players.

[Brian Windhorst]

So what does that mean?

[Tim Bontemps]

Well, again, they played the entire fourth quarter with Karl Towns at center by himself and The Pacers scored 20 points. So.

[Brian Windhorst]

I know, but I think the key is. The key is they didn't have the two defensive holes out there.

[Tim Bontemps]

I mean, they had Landry Shammon out there for a good chunk of the Fourth quarter.

[Brian Windhorst]

I know Andrew Sham was great today.

[Ben McMahon]

Two and a half minutes, by the way, but that you talk about, Surgeon Sham, it played significant minutes tonight. Well, I think I saw significant minutes.

[Brian Windhorst]

I think I saw.

[Tim Bontemps]

Those guys were both pretty good.

[Brian Windhorst]

The Knicks played 15 lineups tonight and, like, six, seven of them had never played together before.

[Tim Bontemps]

Yes.

[Brian Windhorst]

Now. Now, part of that was Tibbs decided to go into his bench and play Landry Sham and D on Wright.

[Ben McMahon]

Right.

[Brian Windhorst]

It was exacerbated by the fact that there was foul trouble both. I mean, definitely with. With Cat and with Brunson, but also.

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Miles McBride got three fouls in a.

[Brian Windhorst]

Minute and a half. So it wasn't like Cat. It wasn't like Tibbs came into this game going, I'm going to play seven lineups I've never played before. He started into the deep end of the pool, and next thing you know, he's thrashing around. And it, by the way, it was not working for a while.

[Tim Bontemps]

It wasn't working for the entire first three quarters of the game.

[Brian Windhorst]

Yeah.

[Tim Bontemps]

And then. And then it worked in the fourth quarter because of Carl Towns. Now, there are some things I think you can take away from it, but this game was about Carl Towns stepping up.

[Brian Windhorst]

Carl Towns isn't getting isolations at the top of the key with Brunson in there, and they weren't going to be getting those stops, if, in my view, with the two of them in there. What I'm saying is this. I think going forward, Tibbs is going to have to lean heavier into the stagger with those two guys. I am not arguing that you, like, bring Cat off the bench or something like that. What I am saying is he may have to lean into the stagger.

[Ben McMahon]

What was there.

[Tim Bontemps]

He did. He did. I think he did do that. Like, Cat came out.

[Brian Windhorst]

I mean, that's why Brunson wasn't playing, by the way, in the fourth quarter. Mean, again, Tib said it. You had to. You had to peel back the layers. The way Tibbs said it was, that group had a rhythm. But when the season's on the line, you're not leaving Brunson on the bench till there's. Till there's two minutes left or you are.

[Tim Bontemps]

If he's both been horrendous and in foul trouble, which he was. And, but, but, but there was like.

[Ben McMahon]

It got to like, okay, at 5, Brunson coming in.

[Brian Windhorst]

That wasn't a foul decision. That was. That was a matchup decision.

[Ben McMahon]

Yeah, it was at four minutes. Okay, is Brunson out there?

[Tim Bontemps]

I didn't think it wasn't until in the game at all. It wasn't until surprised when he came back in with 145 to go.

[Ben McMahon]

Yeah. And he didn't get off the bench to check back in. And like they were showing Brunson until like after three minutes and then he stood there for a while but they were showing Brunson on the bench and he was kind of looking down toward Tibbs like, you know, you ready for the clutch player of the year to come in. Like, you know, and he did and.

[Brian Windhorst]

Look like all the heat that Tibbs took has taken and probably would have given absolutely flamed if they hadn't come back in this game. Tibbs did the correct moves in the fourth quarter. He he played that correctly based on what the what the situation demanded of it. And also and this will be a lot about when we talk about the west finals, certain things are through lines in in series. But and this is a cliche, but it's damn true a lot of times playoff games are individually their own and they're not always, not, not always duplicatable. Sometimes you know, if you're playing a 6 foot 4 guy against a 7 footer, he's going to be it's going to be tough in game one and.

[Ben McMahon]

Game six more HOOPP Collective podcast after.

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[Brian Windhorst]

But I don't know. I felt tonight they're gonna, I think they're gonna lean into the staggered Bon Temps. I don't know. Like maybe it was.

[Tim Bontemps]

But they I but I that's what I'm trying to tell you. They were already in the game. Like, like they Carl came out like five, six minutes into the first quarter. They already were doing that. It didn't change the fact that like Jalen Brunson played as bad as he's played in a game all season. He was terrible. I mean he had a couple shots late to make it look better, but he at one point was like 4 for 17 or 4 for 15 and minus 15 in 27 minutes and was at the worst plus minus on the team. So like yes, the having better defensive players out there helped and it was part of what turned things around. If you had said before the game that the Knicks are going to play Carl Towns at center for the entire fourth quarter and hold the Pacers to 20 points. Probably wouldn't that. You probably got pretty good odds on that. So no matter who else was out.

[Brian Windhorst]

There with them, Miles Turner. 004 he played the last 11 minutes. 004 so he certainly didn't take advantage of it there.

[Tim Bontemps]

Well and this is the other thing. The Pacers coming into tonight's game were the only team in the playoffs that was shooting either 50% from the floor and 40% from three. They were doing both. They had the highest field goal Percentage, the highest 3 point percentage of any team in the playoffs and wait for him to have a bad shooting game. They went 5 for 25. And the most important number there to me is the 25. This is a team that typically gets up a lot of threes. The Knicks did a good job of limiting them on threes. So it is going to be fascinating to see how some of these rotation things look in Game 4. But the Knicks also just did not look like the team that was up. They look like the team that was up two zero for most of the game rather than one that was down two zero. And the Pacers really, until about midway through the third completely dictated things. And the Nismith thing, that injury really I think gave the Knicks a chance because it really messed them up for a while.

[Ben McMahon]

Well, and, and you know, Brun was asked for like a word to describe the series and he said unpredictable. These are two of the best comeback teams in playoff history. Competing against each other, coming back against each other. We went over all the insane Pacers comeback stats, you know, with all like the final minute ridiculous comeback stats. You know, here's one from stats and info. And then Jackson just threw another one in the chat. The Knicks are the first team to come back from 20 plus, down three times in the same postseason since at least 98. And you know, basically in the play by play era, 20 point comeback playoff wins, there have been six in the 2025 playoffs and five in the last four playoffs combined. And of those six, three of them are the Knicks. And I don't know if how many of them are the Pacers, but they've had, you know, forget about 20 point comeback wins, like nine points in the final minute.

[Brian Windhorst]

We obviously are in the comeback era of the NBA for two, two big reasons, I think. One, and this, you know, throughout the regular season, how many 20 point leads got.

[Ben McMahon]

Yeah, 20 point leads and what they used to be.

[Brian Windhorst]

Two reasons why I think that's the case. If you Disagree, speak up. One three pointer.

[Ben McMahon]

Yep.

[Brian Windhorst]

To the pace of play. 100. You know, the teams play fat. You know, this is the, you know, the last three, four years in the NBA have been the fastest pace of play since the like the 60s. And so there's way more possessions in a game. So what?

[Tim Bontemps]

There's one other one too for these late game things, the new timeout rule. Teams are running out of timeouts in a way they did not in the past. And all these Pacer comebacks in particular have all had the same exact thing as part of them, which is teams are calling timeouts early to try to inbound the ball. And then for the final 30, 40 seconds they don't have timeouts. Guys are getting tired. Guys have to force passes in to try to get out of turnover situations and it leads to a lot more chaos. So specifically in the late game ones, I think the timeout thing is part of it too.

[Brian Windhorst]

I agree. Definitely the late game situational. Also, as long as you're bringing up Tibbs want to say fourth quarter coaching, he saved two timeouts till the last minute and that enabled him. It ended up not mattering because the Pacers couldn't. Couldn't score, but it ended up. It ended up allowing him to go full offense, defense. He was able to take Brunson and Towns out of the game because he knew he'd get him back in on timeout.

[Tim Bontemps]

Yep.

[Brian Windhorst]

So whatever Tibbs did, because you know Tibbs took a lot of heat for the way he played. He coached at the end of game two where he kept Towns out of the game and seeing town score 20 in the fourth quarter tonight, that's not going to make that decision look better. However, I understood why he was doing it. It may have been the wrong decision, but I understand.

[Tim Bontemps]

No, it wasn't. It wasn't the wrong decision. Let's, let's break this down.

[Ben McMahon]

Right.

[Tim Bontemps]

Tibbs took Carl Towns out at the start of the fourth quarter because he made several awful defensive plays in a row. Like he was hedging out on TJ McConnell 30ft from the basket. TJ McConnell shoots threes like we do. Like, he's a terrific player, but he's not a three point shooter.

[Ben McMahon]

I played, I played pickup ball this morning. I went over from three. It was the, it was the NBA.

[Tim Bontemps]

Line, but he's better and he's better than McMahon.

[Ben McMahon]

But warm up. I, I'm more confident than ever. I can go 7:25 to. To satisfy our bet.

[Tim Bontemps]

Okay, so I also don't think that was the number, but we're not going to do.

[Ben McMahon]

It was the number, dude.

[Tim Bontemps]

Back to McConnell. That is why Tom Thibodeau sack Carl Towns in the fourth quarter of the game. That's why Tom Thibodau changes starting Robinson.

[Brian Windhorst]

The answer is it was for defense.

[Tim Bontemps]

That's right. And that's why the thing about the fourth quarter today was Carl Towns also was part of a good defense in the fourth quarter. It wasn't just that he had 20 points, it's that the Pacers only scored 20 points themselves as a team.

[Brian Windhorst]

I would have to look into all of these shots, but I suspect Carl had a lot to do with it in the second half. The Pacers were 4 of 13 in the paint.

[Ben McMahon]

Oh, I've got. Listen. The Pacers scored seven points on three of 14 field goals with Cat as their primary defender, and The Pacers were 3 of 10 when he contested their shot. Pacers averaged 19.5 points in Games 1 and 2 with Cat as their primary defender. I know all this because I think Jackson's the best producer in the hoop collected, despite what Bon says. Well, I also, despite what Bon wants.

[Brian Windhorst]

To say, it might be easier for Cat when he's not being put into pick and rolls with Brunson, which, by.

[Tim Bontemps]

The way, the other.

[Brian Windhorst]

Once, once they both got in the game together in the fourth quarter, Indiana immediately went to a pick and roll. They just couldn't score out of it. They wouldn't.

[Tim Bontemps]

Yes, of course. I mean, that is something they're going to have to deal with in the series. But all my point is is they were already starting to go away from it at the start of the game, and then the combination of the foul trouble and the way the game was going sort of sent the game in a weird direction anyway. It's also worth pointing out that after the game, Josh Hart, who was taken out of the starting lineup in favor of Mitchell Robinson, said it was his idea to do that and that he went to Tibbs and had talked to Tibbs about it previously as a possibility. And by the way, I'm pretty sure this is accurate that Josh Hart came in the game five, six minutes into each half and never came out both halves and played 34 minutes. So he still played 20 minutes off the bench.

[Ben McMahon]

What was the starting lineup? Do we have any. Do you have the lineup data on what the start.

[Brian Windhorst]

They were all in the plus, except for Brunson.

[Tim Bontemps]

I believe as a group they were minus 1, but it was not minus 29, which is what that group was in the first two games of the series.

[Brian Windhorst]

The original starting lineup, Josh Hart still got 10 rebounds, including the rebound of the game with. I think it was the one possession game in the fourth quarter and he came flying in, got the rebound, hurt his knee on the play. I hope it was just that.

[Ben McMahon]

That was an insane rebound, though.

[Brian Windhorst]

I hope it was just a tweak because he kept.

[Tim Bontemps]

No, he was. He was. He looked fine after the game. Aaron Neesmith, though, by the way, was walking around with a limp. It's not the same ankle that he hurt early in the year when he had a pretty rough left ankle injury, but that's going to be something to monitor because he obviously is the only guy who's got any prayer of slowing.

[Brian Windhorst]

Down Brunson as an amateur ankle watch, an ankle injury specialist. That's one of those that in the regular season you would say you could miss a game because it was tough.

[Ben McMahon]

Because he like the foot got caught in a weird deal where he kind of like dragged the toe and bent awkwardly.

[Tim Bontemps]

It wasn't a fun one to see.

[Ben McMahon]

And then he stepped and he. And it rolled. So it was like in. In the span of less than a second, there was like two weird, not good movements with that angle.

[Brian Windhorst]

That's, you know, look, I have no idea. I'm just telling you, watching it, having seen a thousand of these, this. That's the type of situation where you're able to play the rest of the game. But then it's tough the next couple.

[Tim Bontemps]

Days, I want to call it eight.

[Ben McMahon]

Years of college tells me that it looked painful.

[Brian Windhorst]

Good job.

[Tim Bontemps]

And they really. And they really need him because he's the only guy that can really do anything to slow Brunson down. I mean, I know he didn't hit shots today, but.

[Ben McMahon]

Well, I think his shot making ability has been been proven in this series, though.

[Tim Bontemps]

Yeah, well, yes, and last year and last year against them too. So. Yeah, look, I'm just glad this series is 2:1 after three games because all three of these games have been awesome. The spread through them is pacers plus two through three games. One of them went obviously to overtime. They've all gone down to the last. There's been a chance to tie the game in the final 10 seconds. I think of all three games, it's been just everything we thought it would be, just not at all the way we expected it to be. And I thought it was funny. I was in the locker room tonight and Josh Hart said, you know, somebody asked about coming back and he said, you know, it'd be nice if we didn't get down by that much. And that's exactly what Tyrese Halliburton said in the locker room after game one. And I think it just as you said earlier, McMahon, Jayla Brunson called the series unpredictable. I think that's really the only way to describe what it's been, a super fun and wacky series so far.

[Brian Windhorst]

Andrew Nemhardt and Aaron Neesmith have both been excellent at both ends of the court in this game, regardless of the ankle injury. They were combined two of 17. And Benedict Matheran, who was, you know, a fringe six man of the year candidate because he was one of the leading scorers in the league coming off the bench and you know, in addition to being just a maniac, the way he plays and you. They can, they can routinely count on him for bench scoring. I think he's averaging four points a game in the series. He did not make a basket in this game.

[Tim Bontemps]

And I'm not sure he'll be playing much more in this series.

[Ben McMahon]

Hey, was that. I have an important question. The fellow wearing the bright red and yellow like race car driver uniform who was holding the helmet and wearing the shades like he was right behind Carlisle for a lot of game, was he, Was that just like a costume or was he like a real.

[Brian Windhorst]

He came right from the Indy 500 pitch.

[Tim Bontemps]

The guy who won the 500, I think Alex Palo is his name. He's from Spain. He was at the game. No, that was not him.

[Ben McMahon]

Okay.

[Tim Bontemps]

He was at the game and celebrated.

[Ben McMahon]

That was just some yahoo.

[Tim Bontemps]

That was some Yahoo.

[Ben McMahon]

Okay.

[Tim Bontemps]

The 500 is a, a religious experience here in Indianapolis. And it's ironically, this is the fourth time that the Pacers have had this situation where they've had a game. Conference finals, game 500. And they've lost all four racers and pacers.

[Brian Windhorst]

Racer. Pacer. Yeah. It hasn't gone good. So I've been to two of those and I think after Covid, they do put it on the air locally.

[Tim Bontemps]

But it was on the air here.

[Brian Windhorst]

When I first experienced it during the heat Pacer wars. When I was there for a couple of them, I was like, well, I guess I should turn. I know I don't watch. I don't watch racing. I was like, I guess I should turn it on to see what it's like. And it was not on. It's. For decades. It was not on. It was. It's on tape. It was on tape delay. But people listen to it on the radio. The radio is a big thing.

[Tim Bontemps]

And those people go to the race and then they'd come home and watch it.

[Brian Windhorst]

That's correct.

[Ben McMahon]

I mean, what's like, what's unusual about that? Half the NBA you can't get in the local market.

[Brian Windhorst]

You're right. Yeah. Because. So my son, my seven year old came to the game, the game three. He doesn't know these two teams very well.

[Ben McMahon]

Oh, an Omaha guy.

[Brian Windhorst]

Because he can't watch them regularly. You don't get to watch them regularly.

[Tim Bontemps]

Winners. I'm pretty sure, I'm pretty sure he likes the Thunder.

[Ben McMahon]

Yes, he well likes the Wolves after last night, Buddy.

[Brian Windhorst]

He has Wolves gear. He was actually at two Wolves games this year. So he knows who ant is Et cetera. But anyway. And then what? I know. And I think this is still the case. And if it's not the case, I apologize. I don't. I just. This is just ignorance. There's historically on, you know, the winner has to stay because on Monday there's this banquet. Oh, that goes on for hours and hours and hours.

[Ben McMahon]

God, sounds excruciating.

[Brian Windhorst]

And they televise that too.

[Ben McMahon]

Oh, my God. People watch people eat.

[Brian Windhorst]

Well, it's just.

[Ben McMahon]

Is it like the hot dog contest? Like the old.

[Brian Windhorst]

There's lots of speeches and stuff, ceremonies. And again, oh my God, maybe this ended and I'm just.

[Ben McMahon]

And eating.

[Brian Windhorst]

No eating.

[Ben McMahon]

But there's a banquet without food. This gets worse.

[Brian Windhorst]

You don't see it. It's off a camera, but too much.

[Tim Bontemps]

For you to process.

[Brian Windhorst]

I remember like being, you know, it was during the Eastern Conference finals and we were in this restaurant, we wanted to watch the Western Conference finals game and they were like, not until. Not till after the banquet, sir.

[Ben McMahon]

You know, I thought it was rough enough to watch people drive in circles.

[Brian Windhorst]

Then you gotta imagine being at a sports bar during the Western Conference finals and being told that you can't put game on so they could watch the banquet on me.

[Ben McMahon]

Did you give them the. Did you say, do you know who I am.

[Brian Windhorst]

Anywhere in India?

[Ben McMahon]

I don't know. It got somewhere. At old Craigs of Hollywood, baby. Got us a table lickety split.

[Brian Windhorst]

Anyway, that series is now alive. Bon Temps. Clear your schedule for the rest of the week.

[Tim Bontemps]

Yes. Happy about that. Happy there will be at least another game in Madison Square Garden.

[Ben McMahon]

You are definitely needed more Hoop Collective podcast after this.

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[Tim Bontemps]

The new McCrispy Strip is here. Dip approved by Ketchup Tangy Barbecue, Honey Mustard, Honey Mustard, Sprite, McFlurry, Big Mac.

[Ben McMahon]

Sauce, double dipped in buffalo and ranch. More ranch and creamy chili McCrispy strip dip now at McDonald's.

[Brian Windhorst]

All right, shifting west to the series that McMahon and I are on. 42 pointaroos there, McMahon. That was 40. What was it, 143? 101, I think was the final.

[Ben McMahon]

That sounds right. It was a whole lot to. Not nearly enough.

[Brian Windhorst]

And you know, like, you expect a team down to coming home to like, you know, fight for its life. I mean, even if it's a 18 series.

[Ben McMahon]

Yes. And you expect a 68 win team to not get their doors blown off.

[Brian Windhorst]

Right.

[Ben McMahon]

To use a technical term that Mark Dagenau dropped today in, in game three of the Western Conference finals. I mean, look, man, it's one game like you, you don't get to carry the point total over, but there's never been a team beat by 40 points in the playoffs that went on to win a championship. I think there's a good chance that stat will not be true in a month. But let's not pretend like this. It wasn't a massively disappointing performance.

[Brian Windhorst]

I remember talking to top seed Thunder. I remember talking. I was talking to David Meniman tonight and I was telling him a story about the 20089 Cavs. It's a team I covered. They won 66 games. They lost two of the three games that year to the Magic, and there was one game where they went down to Orlando and they lost by 40. And losing by 40 in 2009 was equivalent to like probably losing by 53.

[Ben McMahon]

Right.

[Brian Windhorst]

But I remember LeBron saying, I've never been down in a game by 40 points my whole life. That's no longer the case. It's happened quite a few times with the Lakers. But I remember thinking as I was watching that game going, you know, if the Cavs can get beat by a team by 40, they may be in. It may not be a. It might be a problem there. And ended up being a problem. The Magic beat him in six and very easily could have been five if LeBron hadn't hit a. He had a buzzer beater in that series.

[Ben McMahon]

So by the way, though, that, that, that stat of no teams lost by 41, a title, there's been one that's lost by 39. It was the wars in 22. There's been one that's lost, another one that's lost by 39. It was the Bucks in 21. It's been one that lost by 38. It was the Celtics last year. So, again, you know, point differential ain't what it used to be.

[Brian Windhorst]

That's right. Yeah. Going both ways. Having said all that, first off, the Timberwolves were an extremely frustrated team at the end of game two. They were frustrated about the fouls that Jacob Alexander was getting. Although they are fouls, they're not necessarily playoff fouls. Like you. Like, I was talking to a scout who was like, I'm watching this, the Pacer Nick series, and I'm watching how they're letting them defend each other, and then I'm turning on the Western Conference, and I'm watching Shay get, you know, February fouls.

[Ben McMahon]

They.

[Brian Windhorst]

I think they are fouls, but they're just not what we're used to seeing in the playoffs. That's frustrating. Julius Randall gets benched in the fourth quarter. Naz Reed and Deontay DiVincenzo can't hit a shot. And they're just in a very frustrated place. And.

[Ben McMahon]

Well, and they're frustrated because they feel like Shay's getting a good whistle on one end and they're not getting the whistle on the other end. You know, especially in that first half of game two when they shot a free throw. And I did think there was times we talked about this, that Ant should have gotten the line, but there's been a lot of complaining about all these turnovers. And, hey, we're getting fouled. We're getting fouled. And their coaches are looking at the plays and they're like, they're clean strips. Like, you know, maybe there's a bump before, but, like, the strips are clean. But what the Timberwolves did last night.

[Brian Windhorst]

Hold on a second. Hold on. Yeah. Chris Finch hasn't complained. I mean, he's made some passing references, but he has not complained about the officiating.

[Ben McMahon]

And he's not one who's shy to when he feels like it's appropriate.

[Brian Windhorst]

So they go to the plane and, you know, talking to some of the players, there's some salty dudes, including Julius Randall.

[Ben McMahon]

Yeah. Especially, I would say, got benched.

[Brian Windhorst]

Okay. And they all get on the plane. And this not going to surprise you, but Ann Edwards is acting like there's no problem whatsoever. Don't worry about it. Like, he's pumping everybody up. We're going to be fine. Now, I know that that's easy to say. You know, if they lose by 40 in game three, the same thing could have been true. But Randall told me that he was already trying to psych himself into not letting this be an issue because he's like, I preach, you know, he's an 11 year veteran now.

[Ben McMahon]

Yeah.

[Brian Windhorst]

And he's like, I preach to the young guys. You know, be a professional, whatever. You gotta be a professional. And like, so he's trying to like talk himself into being okay with getting benched. And Ant is in such a good mood that by the time they're halfway home, he's actually like finds himself like smiling because Ant was just pumping everybody up. And, and you know, Nas Reed said the same thing. You know, Nas is like, ant doesn't let you get in a bad mood. And even Taryn Shannon Jr. Who didn't play in game one and two, he was saying how Nas was around was affecting him. And then I will say that all that is nice. Anthon came out in the first quarter.

[Ben McMahon]

Yes.

[Brian Windhorst]

And played himself to exhaustion. He put forth so much energy in that first quarter that he was literally almost needed oxygen at the end of.

[Ben McMahon]

The quarter and, and, and outscored the Timberwolves by himself while grabbing all kinds of rebounds, wreaking havoc defensively, distributing like it was an all around 100% dominant performance. You know, Finch today was talking about Ants confidence and calm. And basically the confidence has always been there, born with it. The calm is something that has kind of been a developed thing for him over the course of his NBA career.

[Tim Bontemps]

Yeah, well, and all that is true. And the Wolves were incredibly impressive from the opening second of the game. And it also was, I think a sign of the youth of the Thunder. And they had two very impressive games back to back. They took a 20 lead and it was a little bit of a different situation because Indiana, when they lost the Cavs at home, being up 20 because they want to on the road, but it's kind of the same thing, right. Like you're coming off this Denver series, it's this absolute slugfest series. They win the first two games going away, Jay gets mvp, has a great game. They dominate that game. Right. Thinking, oh man, this is going to be nice and easy. Then you walk into Minneapolis, the Wolves are angry. Spent a couple days stewing over how it went and they came out with just way more desperation and way more force.

[Ben McMahon]

Yeah, that's the word that the, the Thunder used. And yeah, and you know, Chet Holmgren, I'm not looking at the direct quote, but he basically said it's, it's not complicated. Wherever they wanted to go, they got there. We didn't stop them. And they've just physically punked him in this game and they, you know, they, they punched him in the mouth and the, the Thunder, you kind of kept waiting, are the Thunder gonna make any kind of run? Is this gonna get interesting? But ant played himself to exhaustion. Then what happens? TJ Shannon gets the first real minutes of the series and he goes for nine points in a four minute flurry. So the. And aunt not only played himself to exhaustion, but the CR crowd was in a frenzy. And then TJ Shannon comes in, this rookie who's you know, fringe rotation guy. He just takes that thing to, to another level. And there was like a few minutes span at the beginning of the third quarter that you thought, can the Thunder.

[Brian Windhorst]

I think it was 11 to 2, right?

[Ben McMahon]

Yeah. Can the Thunder pull off another miracle? Like I, I was there when they came back from 29 down in Memphis. Now, Ja got hurt and that started the comeback, whatever, but 26 down at halftime, they came back and won that game. So you're thinking like, dude, is this. And then they got it down to 22 and that was that. They never mounted any kind of real comeback threat. The plug was pulled with, you know, more than two minutes left in the third quarter. Just complete and utter domination by the Timberwolves. The Thunder tasted their own blood. You know, like I, I haven't looked at. Again, I'm using another diagonal term. He had some good ones today. That's what he said the Thunder tastes. We tasted our own blood is what he said. He said it's not necessarily a bad thing to taste your own blood.

[Brian Windhorst]

Well, it sounds like Joe Missoula. He's back.

[Ben McMahon]

Yeah, yeah. But you know, we talked about the historic point differential in the playoff stat. That took a beating. I haven't, I haven't. I haven't looked at it since that game, but it ain't what it was.

[Brian Windhorst]

That's no kidding.

[Ben McMahon]

It's not nearly as historic, I could promise you that.

[Brian Windhorst]

The other thing. So the first two games, I wouldn't say that the. Well, maybe they would disagree. I wouldn't say that the, that the Wolves played that much zone, but they did play zone because that had worked for them against the, the Thunder in the regular season. And Denver had some success in the half court.

[Ben McMahon]

Well, a lot of success for Denver.

[Brian Windhorst]

But yes, in, in game two, specifically the Thunder. Well, I mean, it was hard to even compute in that game because the Thunder just really weren't bothered at all.

[Ben McMahon]

No, they were. Shay and Jada walked into like clean, easy for them, mid range look after mid range.

[Brian Windhorst]

So I don't think they Were playing great zone. But the point was is that they pretty much abandoned that in game three. And the way Finch described it was we went back to our fastball and.

[Ben McMahon]

And it's not just they went back to playing, man, they went back to playing a much more aggressive.

[Brian Windhorst]

Yes. In your pushing. You're pushing.

[Ben McMahon]

Yes.

[Brian Windhorst]

The defense.

[Ben McMahon]

And, and look, Rudy was not a factor in the first two games defensively. Like one of the, one of the plays in the first quarter, like Ant dominated. But how about when Rudy comes out and they, they double shade near half court and Rudy gets a strip, you know, now he didn't.

[Brian Windhorst]

She was quite surprised he didn't get.

[Ben McMahon]

To finish the dunk on the other end. But he gets a script and takes it in for the dunk and she had to foul him. And then he was just like. Rudy wasn't playing that passive drop that you just can't do against Shay and JW just can't let those guys walk into 14.

[Brian Windhorst]

The reason you can play with drop is because you're denying the drive. That's the point right. Of the drop is you're denying the drive.

[Ben McMahon]

And he wants to get to those spots and pull up.

[Brian Windhorst]

That's right. Shay's like, fine, I'll. You're gonna force me into the mid range. I'll take it.

[Ben McMahon]

And these are layups for me. He's one of the best mid range shooters we've ever seen.

[Brian Windhorst]

Yeah.

[Ben McMahon]

So you've got to, you've got to play up against him and, and Jalen.

[Brian Windhorst]

Williams also Nas Reed, you know, he was o of 12 on threes in the comforter in games one and two. He hit his first four shots, including both two threes. Like things just, you know.

[Ben McMahon]

Well, yeah, one thing I've definitely noticed, and I, I will say this with complete confidence in my analysis is the Tim Wolves are much better when Nas Reed hits every shot than when he hits none.

[Brian Windhorst]

Let me write that down. I should have that.

[Ben McMahon]

I've shared that with some of the Wolves staffers. So they all agreed.

[Tim Bontemps]

Lucky for you, they have your input to fall back.

[Ben McMahon]

I mean, I'm telling you, I might, you know, ESPN better hit high because I'm in demand.

[Brian Windhorst]

Well, you're elite. You're an elite guy at the bar. Post game, nobody analyzes.

[Ben McMahon]

Easy, easy, easy, easy. I've been given a JJ Redick championship shape speech by the old IT department. So I'm. You ain't gonna be able to find me as far as post game for a while.

[Brian Windhorst]

And let me just say, you're Sticking to it. I can. I can vouch for that.

[Ben McMahon]

Hey, I've played pickup ball twice during this series. Tell you, pretty dominant performance by me in the last two games. We can talk about the first three today. Let's go on.

[Brian Windhorst]

All right. I need more data to be able to say whether this series pivoted or not is what is my analytics.

[Ben McMahon]

I would agree. And. And look, the Thunder, of all people, can tell you with a straight face that a blowout doesn't necessarily mean anything for the next game. I mean, they smoke the. The Nuggets by 40, whatever it was in Game 2 and lost Game 3. Like, you don't get to. You don't get to package those points and bring them in in the next game.

[Brian Windhorst]

Well, I will say this. Mark Dagenal has said repeatedly, whether they won by 40 or lost by 40, each game is its own.

[Ben McMahon]

Yeah. Its own chapter, blah, blah, blah.

[Brian Windhorst]

He has repeated that. So it was easy when he says that it wasn't just lip service.

[Ben McMahon]

But we did learn something in, in game three. And that's. Look, the Timberwolves ain't scared and they're not going to go out meekly. They're not just going to. Oh, my gosh, 68 wins. And look at all this great defense. And Shay's the mvp. They're not just going to roll over. And I can promise you this, as Shay's the mvp, deservedly. And. And Ant, you know, I don't know where he finished. I don't know where he finished on seventh, whatever it was.

[Tim Bontemps]

Seventh or eighth.

[Ben McMahon]

Yeah, yeah, seven, whatever. Ant's not walking out on the court wondering if he can be the best player on the floor. Yeah, that I can tell you.

[Brian Windhorst]

Also, we'll say this about. We haven't talked about Julius Randall at all. He was a total 100% pro. He got benched. He wasn't getting it done. He had a great first half of game one. The next five quarters he goes. Five of 16 was not effective. He was there four hours early for game three, and he had 23. I think, like, I think he was nine of 15. He. He had a professional response. And you know, the thing about the Wolves is they do have a bunch of young guys. But Gobert has been around a long time. Mike Conley's been around a long time. Julius has been around for 11 years. Like, it was a very mature response to. Not just obviously down too well, but things were so much going against them and it was a very mature response.

[Ben McMahon]

Yeah. And look, man.

[Tim Bontemps]

Yeah. Now it's Time to. Now it's time for the funder to do the same thing.

[Brian Windhorst]

You're right.

[Ben McMahon]

Yeah. And Julius Randall's had a. Like he's been a big time pro all season. Think about the circumstances for him and like obviously Cats had a huge game for, for the Knicks night has had an all NBC's. But these guys were traded two days before camp, like out of the blue. I mean, you know, not like we had inklings there was interest and all that. But like it's not like they thought they were getting traded and they should for them they felt like they were blindsided by this. And for Julius there was a lot of frustration this season. Like the fit was something they had to spend most of the season figuring out. There's a lot of clunkiness a lot. And he was getting a lot of heat. He was getting a lot of blame when they didn't come shooting out of the gates. Not necessarily internally but like just in the discussion around the team. And the guy played his best ball down the stretch as aside from one game, has had a great playoffs. You know, for a dude who's not. Not known as a playoff performer, he has been this season and so it's. I don't think it. We should be surprised at the way he responded to his first clunker of the. Of this postseason.

[Brian Windhorst]

A key part of my reporting on Julius Randall was that he switched his pregame music from Drake and Nipsey Hussle to Young Jeezy.

[Ben McMahon]

Well, listen, you can't be, you know.

[Brian Windhorst]

You know, I can. This is, this is the stuff I'm. I've got my finger on the pulse on this.

[Ben McMahon]

Well, you do have that ovo espn, Jack. Oh, no, you don't. I've got that man. Listen, if my contract negotiations don't go well, it'll be on ebay.

[Tim Bontemps]

Your boy Two Chains is going to be very upset and your other boy, Jadakiss is also going to be very upset. I cheated on him with Young Jeezy.

[Brian Windhorst]

I. It was James White. Flight White. Remember Flight White?

[Ben McMahon]

Oh, yeah, sure do.

[Brian Windhorst]

He's one of the Wolves assistants and he. He suggested Young Jeezy. I will just say that the reason I gave you the jacket was that. Not so much that I was. I didn't want to. I didn't want to have a. A horse in that fight. I think it was important to stay neutral.

[Ben McMahon]

I think it was more so that you didn't have room in your luggage. But that was.

[Tim Bontemps]

That is the correct answer I want.

[Brian Windhorst]

No, no, I said I wanted to.

[Ben McMahon]

I did a whole. I did like that, you know, I did a. The technique of, like, you sit on the suitcases, you're dipping it. Like. I was pretty. I was pretty strong. I got it home. And I'll tell you like I said. And you might see it early October on ebay if things don't go well for me.

[Brian Windhorst]

I was in. I was in the lobby of the Hotel Bontemps yesterday. What was the day? Was it Friday?

[Tim Bontemps]

Saturday?

[Ben McMahon]

Today's Sunday.

[Brian Windhorst]

Right, whatever. When McMahon arrived, I was in Minneapolis.

[Ben McMahon]

Oh, no, that was two days ago.

[Brian Windhorst]

I was in the. I just happened to be in the lobby. Was happy to see him. We're going out to a nice dinner. And people who were with me reacted in shock and awe at the amount of luggage he had.

[Ben McMahon]

Listen, there's two checked bags and a duffel bag and then a computer bag. Here's the deal.

[Tim Bontemps]

Listen, the guy. There's a reason the guy takes forever to get his work done. He's got a lot of. He's got a lot of accessories.

[Ben McMahon]

He's got to have accessories. It's not accessories. I got. Had to pack for eight games, so that's eight suits. Well, damn. You can't repeat kicks. So it's eight suits, eight kicks.

[Tim Bontemps]

But then it's like a lot of accessories.

[Ben McMahon]

No, it's not accessories. They're. It's kicks and suits. Then you got to have, you know, your sweats for the non stuff. And then like, we're hooping, so I gotta have another pair of. Of kicks, you know, to hoop in. And if we're hooping, damn. Now here, the high price is an accessory, but it's a necessity because trust me, we get done with this, I'm putting that thing on old lower backs. I'm old and I'm stiff. Gotta pack the Icy Hot out to.

[Brian Windhorst]

Anthony Katz, CEO of Hyper Ice. Yeah, a listener. Let me just for the record. Bonus.

[Tim Bontemps]

That's just a count. That's just a count of 10 pairs of shoes.

[Ben McMahon]

Plus, I love it because I did. I had. I got the championship Shape speech. And so I had to pack some running shoes for the elliptical.

[Tim Bontemps]

Okay, so now we're up to 11 pairs of shoes. 11 pairs.

[Ben McMahon]

So, okay, so there's a bag, the check bag.

[Tim Bontemps]

As I said, there's a lot of accessories. We have to have a lot of accessories.

[Brian Windhorst]

We got a lot of stuff to.

[Tim Bontemps]

Prepare, a lot of stuff to think about.

[Brian Windhorst]

He does. Well, I will say knuckles. He does look spectacular. But I will say, I want to point out that MC10, Dave McMenamin was also there. And when, when people express shock and awe, McMenamin leapt to nobody, nobody likes an accessory.

[Tim Bontemps]

Just like Nobody slower than McMahon except for McMenamin.

[Brian Windhorst]

He's like the only person likes an.

[Tim Bontemps]

Accessory more than McMahon is.

[Brian Windhorst]

Listen, McMenamon was like, do not judge a man's because what's the difference? He's managing it. He's, it's not your luggage, you don't have to take it.

[Tim Bontemps]

And Dave loves pickup hoops. And when Dave is going to play pickup hoops, he, there's, there's a lot of accessories that are being, oh no tights, you're wearing sleeves. Where he's got all the stuff.

[Ben McMahon]

He had the Kobe Grinches on today. Looking good, looking good. All that cues, gear, you know, I mean, probably why we finished 2 and 3 instead of on the, on the, on the bright side, but also I kind of got scorched in game two angle lie. But no, McMiniman will fiercely protect your honor as long as it serves his agenda.

[Brian Windhorst]

All right, with that, we got two series, gentlemen, and onward and upward to game fours. And we will speak to you after them. Thank you to Jackson, our producer. Thank you to McMahon, thank you to Bontemps, thank you to McManaman for having McMahon's back. And he arranged a gorgeous dinner and watch party for us on Sunday night.

[Ben McMahon]

I missed that one. But I, I was there for the 8:30 Uber coming off a freaking game to go play pickup. You know, it's pretty impressive.

[Brian Windhorst]

I, I, it was at a French restaurant and I brought my seven year old, who's here, and he learned a whole bunch of French.

[Ben McMahon]

Oh, escargot, Oui, oui.

[Brian Windhorst]

And Trudy there, and they served him some. As for the table, there was some French delicacies that were brought to the table and there was a collection taken up to get my son to try caviar. And it got up to $14.

[Ben McMahon]

That's a pretty good price.

[Brian Windhorst]

That was the key. $12 wasn't enough, but 14, that got him to do it. And he did try it and it did not go down the hatch, but he tried it. Which were the terms of the negotiation. And no one, no one negotiates like my son. He's a lead negotiator.

[Ben McMahon]

Well, that runs in the family.

[Brian Windhorst]

So anyway, but thank you, McMenamin. Anyway, thank you to Jackson. Thank you for watching and listening to the who collective. We'll be talking to you after the game.

[Ben McMahon]

Force Adios, amigos.

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