Lakers Bounce Back, Bucks Time To Panic? Knicks In Trouble?

Summary

Hoop Collective Podcast Summary: "Lakers Bounce Back, Bucks Time To Panic? Knicks In Trouble?"

Release Date: April 23, 2025
Hosts: Brian Windhorst, Tim Bontemps, Ben McMahon
Podcast: Brian Windhorst & The Hoop Collective by ESPN

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Introduction

In this episode of Hoop Collective, hosts Brian Windhorst, Tim Bontemps, and Ben McMahon dive deep into the current NBA playoff series, examining key matchups, player performances, and front-office movements. The discussion covers the Lakers' rebound against the Timberwolves, the Bucks' struggles against the Pacers, and the Knicks' unexpected troubles against the Pistons, among other topics.

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Lakers vs. Timberwolves: A Rocky Victory

Game Recap and Analysis

The Lakers triumphed over the Timberwolves in a contentious game that saw explosive performances overshadowed by poor team play and questionable officiating. Brian Windhorst reflects on the Lakers' necessity to win, stating, "The Lakers won because they had Luka. That's my takeaway" (00:38). However, he criticizes the overall gameplay, particularly in the fourth quarter, describing it as "watching bumper cars with referees interfering" (02:36).

Player Performances

• Luka Dončić: While Luka had a strong game overall, largely due to his free throw efficiency, his performance in the fourth quarter was lackluster. Brian notes, "Luka and LeBron in the fourth quarter combined to go 3 of 13 with three turnovers" (03:41).

• LeBron James: Despite some defensive plays, LeBron appeared fatigued, especially in the fourth quarter. Windhorst observes, "LeBron looked old in the fourth quarter this game" (06:32).

• Anthony Edwards: Edwards struggled significantly, shooting 8 of 22. Tim comments, "He had 25 points in this game, but there's no way you thought he played a good game" (04:24).

Controversies and Refereeing

The game was marred by multiple fouls and questionable calls, including a basket interference call in the final seconds. Brian muses, "There was like 11 reviews and Luka did not get a technical foul in this game" (10:02). The hosts discuss the impact of officiating on the game's flow, with Tim emphasizing, "It was dreadful" (09:58).

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Milwaukee Bucks vs. Indiana Pacers: Giannis at the Helm Amid Team Struggles

Game Recap and Giannis Antetokounmpo's Dominance

The Bucks faced off against the Pacers, where Giannis Antetokounmpo's stellar performances couldn't salvage a team struggling with depth and strategy. Brian highlights Giannis's impact, noting, "Giannis has been just awesome this season. He... has tried doing everything he can to carry this team" (18:51).

Team Issues and Future Outlook

The discussion shifts to Milwaukee's broader issues, including financial strains and roster limitations. Ben McMahon points out, "They are burning everything they have to try to build another contender or another championship team around Giannis, and they're not close right now" (24:06).

Potential Trades and Roster Moves

The hosts speculate on Giannis's future, given his statement on needing another title to complete his career legacy. Tim recalls Giannis's sentiment, "I need to win another title or I feel like my career won't be complete if I don't" (20:24). They debate the Bucks' financial constraints and the improbability of securing high-profile players like Kevin Durant, leading Brian to assert, "It's possible this ends up being a team renting him" (26:05).

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New York Knicks vs. Detroit Pistons: Unexpected Challenges

Game Recap and Player Performances

The Knicks' series against the Pistons has been unexpectedly tight, with Detroit securing a Game 2 victory. Tim expresses surprise, stating, "I'm honestly shocked with how the first two games have gone" (40:07). Key players like Jalen Brunson struggled, with his over-isolation play leading to inefficiencies. Brian critiques Brunson's approach, "Jalen was pounding the ball way too much... too much isolation ramming your heads into the wall over and over again" (44:18).

Coaching and Strategy Issues

Coach Tom Thibodeau’s strategies were under scrutiny, especially regarding offensive execution and foul management. Tim laments, "The Knicks entire offense in the second half of that game felt like, give the ball to Jalen and have him try to draw a foul" (39:11).

Officiating and Team Dynamics

Brian and Tim discuss the impact of officiating and team dynamics on the Knicks' performance. Brian mentions, "Brunson had a bad defensive bust that let Schroeder walk into a big time clutch three" (46:22). The hosts agree that the Knicks need to overhaul their offensive strategies to avoid further setbacks.

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Los Angeles Clippers vs. Denver Nuggets: Kawhi Leonard Shines Amid Nuggets' Struggles

Game Recap and Kawhi’s Outstanding Play

Kawhi Leonard delivered an exceptional performance for the Clippers, reminiscent of his prime years. Brian marvels, "Kawhi Leonard... 39 points and only missed four shots from the floor as a wing player" (29:01). His ability to elevate both offensively and defensively was a key factor in the Clippers' success.

Nuggets' Depth and Injury Concerns

The Nuggets faced challenges with injuries and defensive mismatches. Michael Porter Jr.'s shoulder injury was a significant blow, reducing Denver's offensive and defensive capabilities. Tim notes, "If he's not able to go, like you said, Brian, this is already the worst three-point shooting team in the league" (35:49).

Team Strategy and Playoff Implications

Brian discusses the Nuggets' strategic issues, emphasizing their reliance on star players and poor ball movement. Tim adds, "Dame is now back and Dame isn't solving the defense problems that they have" (25:11). The hosts agree that without substantial roster improvements, Denver faces a tough path in the playoffs.

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Front Office Movements and NBA League Updates

Atlanta Hawks Fire General Manager

In a surprising move, the Atlanta Hawks fired General Manager Landry Fields after less than three years, citing the disastrous Dejounte Murray trade and ongoing project stagnation. Brian critiques the decision, noting, "He was trading DeAndre Hunter. Although Hunter has been great in Cleveland... it felt like the middle of a project" (48:19).

Sacramento Kings Hire Scott Perry

Scott Perry was rehired by the Sacramento Kings, marking a return to a familiar front office environment. Brian highlights the connection between Perry and former Pistons executive Joe Dumars, underscoring the cyclical nature of NBA front-office relationships (56:09).

New Orleans Pelicans and Zion Williamson

Joe Dumars, the new President of the NBA League, addressed the future of Zion Williamson with the New Orleans Pelicans. Although Dumars expressed support for Coach Willie Green, he remained non-committal about Williamson's status, prompting speculation about potential trades. Ben suggests, "Between the lines, they're at least going to explore the market" (51:31).

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Conclusion

The episode wraps up with the hosts reflecting on the intense playoff atmosphere and the critical decisions teams must make moving forward. Brian emphasizes the unpredictability of the playoffs, stating, "I've seen some conference finals that don't have me as excited as this" (33:12). As the playoffs progress, the Hoop Collective promises to continue delivering in-depth analysis and insights.

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Notable Quotes

• Brian Windhorst: "The Lakers won because they had Luka. That's my takeaway." (00:38)
• Tim Bontemps: "It was dreadful." (09:58)
• Ben McMahon: "They are burning everything they have to try to build another contender or another championship team around Giannis, and they're not close right now." (24:06)
• Brian Windhorst: "Giannis has been just awesome this season. He... has tried doing everything he can to carry this team." (18:51)
• Tim Bontemps: "I'm honestly shocked with how the first two games have gone." (40:07)

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Timestamp Reference

For quick reference, notable quotes are linked to their respective timestamps in the transcript above.

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Note: This summary excludes advertisements, intros, outros, and non-content sections to focus solely on the substantive discussions and analyses of the podcast.

Transcript

[Brian Windhorst]

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[Brian Windhorst]

Welcome to the Hoop Collective podcast. We talk about the NBA, which we're doing early on Wednesday morning after the Lakers beat the Timberwolves in a rock fight that I prefer never to speak of again. But most of America did not make it to the end of this game and I congratulate you all. Joining us from New York City where the Knicks are not looking so great after a game two loss to the Tip Pistons is Tim Bontemp.

[Tim Bontemps]

I thought Nick's Pistons was ugly, but it didn't have a anything on Lakers wolves. That was a rough watch.

[Brian Windhorst]

Joining us from Oklahoma City where he watched the Thunder go ahead of the Grizzlies 20 in a series that everybody can't wait to get over, including our guy, Ben McMahon.

[Ben McMahon]

Howdy, partners. I would say most prominently can't wait to get it over is probably the Grizzlies. I'm, I've got you. I'm trying to figure out that like little flight tracker technology to make sure the plane actually goes to Memphis and not Cancun.

[Brian Windhorst]

This was like, I think what, what was it was a 17 points. Was that the final 19?

[Tim Bontemps]

I think it was 19. 1951 plus 1999.

[Brian Windhorst]

They actually, they actually took a bucket away from the Grizzlies with five seconds left. They scored a basket. I don't know why they took it away, but they did.

[Tim Bontemps]

Basket interference. They called.

[Brian Windhorst]

But the Grizzlies average margin of defeat to the Thunder this year is like over 20.

[Ben McMahon]

So technically it's right around 19. It was. Oh no, actually you're wrong. I'm wrong.

[Tim Bontemps]

My bad.

[Ben McMahon]

You talked.

[Brian Windhorst]

Anyway, you could argue it was 18.8.

[Ben McMahon]

In the regular season. Then they got a 51 pointer in the game one.

[Brian Windhorst]

You could argue that the Grizzlies made progress on this one.

[Ben McMahon]

Hey, they told us they would never play that bad again and they, they almost sliced it in the third.

[Tim Bontemps]

They almost got there.

[Brian Windhorst]

They, they jumped over that very low bar. Shay's played terribly the first two games and they, they're like sniffing the largest average margin, the largest Margin of victory over two games in the history of the. The league. So that sort of. I don't know what else I can say about that that's more sums up.

[Ben McMahon]

Talk about this series. It's bad series.

[Tim Bontemps]

Yes. Let's move along.

[Ben McMahon]

We'll be well rested for the second round.

[Brian Windhorst]

Moving along, which is what I wanted to say about the fourth quarter of this Lakers Timberwolves game. All right, look, the Lakers won. They had to win. If they lost this game, they would have been in big trouble. They, they got done what they needed to get done. Thumbs up, period. New paragraph. I'm not so sure they should still feel good about the way they're playing. Luka played a strong game overall, mostly because he just got to the free throw line and made his free throws. But the fourth quarter of this game was like watching, was like watching bumper cars. It would be like if you were watching bumper cars, but there was referees out there blowing whistles on the bumper cars and stopping the bumper cars when you just wanted to get through the ride so you could get out of the bumper cars.

[Tim Bontemps]

Just have the timer go off. We're just waiting for the timer to go off, dude.

[Ben McMahon]

The fourth quarter score was 20 to.

[Tim Bontemps]

13, and it felt like it was 8 to 5 because nobody could make a shot. Nobody could hold on to the ball. There were fouls everywhere. It was, it was awful.

[Brian Windhorst]

Luka and LeBron in the fourth quarter combined to go 3 of 13 with three turnovers. I, I, you know, it's. LeBron made a couple of defensive plays. The Lakers just, just in general played tougher. Although J.J. redick was being driven crazy in this game. Like, he, at one point, he called a rage timeout and said 114 letter words because, because they lined up incorrectly on, on an inbounds play. Like, there it's one one. But I just don't think anybody from the Lakers party can be really happy about the way things are going. But okay, they won. The, you know, Luca did what he had to do. The other headline I would say from this game, Ant has just not been good in this series. You, you have to give the Lakers credit.

[Ben McMahon]

Hold on. You talking about how great Ant was the other day?

[Brian Windhorst]

Well, that was then, this is now. What are you talking about? Ant was not good in game one. I didn't say that.

[Ben McMahon]

Oh, wait, I, I thought Ant was.

[Tim Bontemps]

I thought we did talk about. I thought Ant was great in game one. We spent all.

[Brian Windhorst]

He was eight of 22. He was, he was played.

[Tim Bontemps]

We talked about how disciplined he played and he didn't force anything. And he moved the ball and played really well.

[Brian Windhorst]

Well, okay, well, technically he had 25 points in this game, but there's no way, if you watched it, you thought he played a good game.

[Tim Bontemps]

No, none of the Wolves played. None of the Wolves played well today.

[Ben McMahon]

And, and by the way, we talked about, ant had nine assists last game when he. And when he's facilitating, the Wolves tend to win, guess how many assists he had tonight.

[Brian Windhorst]

I don't have.

[Tim Bontemps]

I would guess nine based off saying that.

[Ben McMahon]

No, zero.

[Tim Bontemps]

Oh, well, I didn't know. I, I thought he didn't have any. But the way you said that, I thought you might have been making a joke that he had a bunch. I mean, look, the Wolves, they almost.

[Brian Windhorst]

Didn'T have nine as a team.

[Tim Bontemps]

Yeah, I mean, the Wolves came out from the beginning and looked like a team that was pretty content to be 1:1 in the series. After two, the Lakers, as the home team down 0:1 in the series, predictably came out like an absolute house of fire. We're flying around on defense, we're being really physical. Minnesota was not ready for it. And then as the game went along, the Lakers were lucky. They had a big lead because their offense completely short circuited. Luca was trying to put Rudy in a highlight for the entire final three quarters of the game and it kept messing up their offense. And I mean, Minnesota, every time they had a chance to get the game close, did something boneheaded and let the Lakers get the lead back up to 15 or 16.

[Brian Windhorst]

They had a series of possessions in the fourth quarter when it was an 11 point game or maybe even a nine point game. And I guess the Lakers get credit because they were standing in the way. They had some.

[Tim Bontemps]

It was a y sax mean at both end. The lakers had a two on one. Austin Reeves tried to throw an alley oop to LeBron to the moon. And then they didn't even score. And then they came back down to turn the ball over. I mean, it was just like, it was crazy how bad it was.

[Brian Windhorst]

LeBron, can you imagine what was went through LeBron's head? It was a two on one break and Austin Reeves threw a lob 13ft in the air. Can you, can you imagine what 13.

[Tim Bontemps]

Might be underselling it? It felt like it was 23ft in the air.

[Brian Windhorst]

Can you imagine what went with your LeBron's head? Like, what do you think? Who do you think I am?

[Ben McMahon]

I forgot when it was, but he threw him one of those not too long ago. And LeBron caught it and threw it down and basically said, dude. Something along the lines of that took like two weeks off my career.

[Brian Windhorst]

Well, LeBron looked old in the fourth quarter this game, but he still did make some good defensive plays. But I don't know. It's hard to even anal, I think. I think the better thing is to just sort of forget this and look forward. I would just say, you know, Mike Conley, who has looked old at various times this season, was horrendous in this game. He did have some, some assists for a team. Actually, he only had one assist.

[Ben McMahon]

My God, more points than he had.

[Brian Windhorst]

He was.

[Tim Bontemps]

I mean, they were barely, they were barely getting shots off for the first quarter and a half of the game.

[Brian Windhorst]

I think it's the worst game I've ever seen M. Conley play.

[Tim Bontemps]

It was bad.

[Brian Windhorst]

Their. Their bench, Dante DiVincenzo, Naz Reed and Nikhil Alexander Walker, three of the guys who are big factors in their winning game one were all really poor. DiVincenzo and Naz Reed got into foul trouble immediately in the game. They just were totally taken out of their flow. I don't know. I. Here's what I would say. Going to Minnesota, you would have to assume that Ant Edwards is going to play a more efficient game. He is 18 of 44 so far shooting in this series. He is shooting, I think under 30% on threes or maybe he's just right at 30%. We know that's not who he is. And so I would say that Ant Edwards is. You would have to expect going back home that Aunt Edwards is going to summon something in what is now going to be an extremely pivotal Game three.

[Tim Bontemps]

And the others for the Wolves are probably going to play better too, right? Like they, they. Their whole team was bad today. I mean, look, I, I came away from this. Luke has been awesome. Two games. That has been a really good thing for the Lakers. Like you said, LeBron still does not look great for a guy who had a bunch of time off. And there were two days off between these two games. And then there's two days off till game three and then every other game after that is every other day. I mean, I thought coming into the series, the Lakers absolutely had to be up 21 after 3 because you get into the every other day portion of the series that favors Minnesota, the younger, deeper team. So obviously they had to win today to get it even up after going down 01. I think it's a must win on Friday too with the two days off. Like if they get that, I think they're going to feel pretty good about getting back home court and also being up going into the every other day. If they're down 2:1 and they got to win three out of four, playing essentially five games in eight days, nine days, that's going to be a tough pill for them to swallow in the situation they're going to be in.

[Brian Windhorst]

Well, Luca did try to go after, especially in the second half, as you mentioned Bon Thames, he tried to go after Rudy Gobert a lot. Jackson gave us some stats here from our sports and information group. Gobert held the Lakers to 5 of 17 shooting as the primary defender tonight. So they didn't give. Didn't get far on that one.

[Ben McMahon]

And Luco, it looked like, I mean, I wasn't able to watch most of the game, just be clear. But watch the fourth quarter. He looked tired. It looked like he wore himself out.

[Brian Windhorst]

Well, Luca was into his. The fishing on this game was not something for the officiating was perfect for the way this game was played.

[Tim Bontemps]

The way it was dreadful.

[Brian Windhorst]

It was just.

[Tim Bontemps]

Let's just. It was dreadful.

[Brian Windhorst]

But I say it was perfect. I mean, it matched.

[Tim Bontemps]

I know, I know.

[Brian Windhorst]

I was.

[Tim Bontemps]

I was just emphasizing that for people.

[Brian Windhorst]

That was like. There was like 11 reviews and Luca was. It's actually a minor miracle. Luca did not get a technical foul in this game.

[Ben McMahon]

Who. Who's the ref Crew?

[Tim Bontemps]

I got to know James Capers, Justin Van Dyne and Ben Taylor. Ben Taylor.

[Ben McMahon]

Oh, might be all sub 6 footers. I know capers claim 6 foot on the nose.

[Brian Windhorst]

I don't believe James Capers was not happy when you brought up when he was on our pod.

[Ben McMahon]

What's that tell you? That means he ain't really six feet.

[Tim Bontemps]

Did you see this bozo the other day tweeted at the communications, the NBA PR account when they tweeted out the refs and he said is there a height chart with this? Like what are we doing enough listings.

[Brian Windhorst]

He is staked this. He has staked this position.

[Tim Bontemps]

It's absurd.

[Brian Windhorst]

I think everybody would be best to just forget this game. But Luka and Luca, by the way.

[Ben McMahon]

I'm sure they won't talk about it on first take at all. You're on first take tomorrow.

[Brian Windhorst]

Yeah, I just sent in my notes on the game. It was. They were rage notes. You know, JJ's rage timeout. They were the notes that I just sent to the producers right before we started. They were rage notes, a bunch of all caps. I was like, I hated this game. No, Luca did get tripped at one point by Jaden McDaniels. Like, there was a. There was a basket made and Jaden McDaniels pretty clearly like clamped Luca's feet. And Luca hit the ground like a ton of bricks. And I'm actually kind of relieved he didn't get hurt because he. I can't tell if he was fly, if he flopped to accept.

[Tim Bontemps]

He definitely was flopping. He didn't get. He didn't get taken. He. He fell down. Like, he got taken down. He felt somebody put his legs around his feet and said, I'm gonna fall down. And then he jumped up and sprinted over to Justin Van Dyne and for some reason was not teed up for screaming at him for. Oh my God, it was brutal.

[Brian Windhorst]

All right. Anyway, the Lakers won because they had Luca. That's my takeaway.

[Ben McMahon]

No, you know why the Lakers won? Because defense wins championships. They held in 85, baby. How about that Lakers defense?

[Brian Windhorst]

They. They.

[Tim Bontemps]

Once again, key part, the Lakers juggernaut defense in this game.

[Brian Windhorst]

Once again, that statement is proven correct. The Minnesota. Minnesota only shot 38% 5 of 25 on threes. Geez. They only had 14 assists as a team. I will say Julius Randle played pretty well. He had 27 points. He had six assists. He, I guess, is their. Was their best player, but he also had a bunch of possessions where he was just that bull in the china shop, just pounding.

[Tim Bontemps]

He was their best player, but he only played a C plus game too.

[Brian Windhorst]

I couldn't say it any better than that. So I don't know. I kind of feel like that's all I want to say about this. The Lakers are still alive, but they're gonna have to play a lot better and bon temps. You said this before we came on air. If you were the Thunder and you were watching the Clippers Nuggets series, which we'll talk about later, and you were watching the Lakers Wolves series, you'd be like, wait a minute, how do we win 68 games and we're on the side of the bracket with those two teams? Not the Lakers and Wolves.

[Tim Bontemps]

They'll be playing the west finals in the west semifinals. That's what I will say.

[Ben McMahon]

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[Brian Windhorst]

Okay, I wanna talk about what went on on Tuesday night in Indianapolis. Pacers 1 to go up 20 in the series. They have been clearly the better team. They shot the ball extremely well from long range in this game. They had six different guys scoring double figures. Pascal Siakam is just a real handful for the Bucs. He has dominated them throughout the season. He had another excellent game with 24 and 11 and you guys know how I feel the Pacers about the Pacers. I feel they're a dangerous team who have been playing very well under the radar for the last six weeks and they continue to build that momentum in this game and they're in great shape in that series. But I just want to speak real quick about what's going on with the Bucks. Let me tell you what Giannis Atenokounmpo has done so far in this series. In game one, he went 14 of 23 from the field with 12 rebounds, only had one assist, had a steal and two blocks, 36 points, 12 rebounds. In game two on Tuesday night, he goes 1420 for 34 points, 18 rebounds, seven assists. He is having a brilliant series and his team is down.02. It hasn't been close in either game.

[Ben McMahon]

And this one they this one they got it close down the stretch, but they had to come back to get it close.

[Tim Bontemps]

This one is sort of competitive with Bobby Port is having the game of his life like they are not.

[Brian Windhorst]

But they were never going to win this game.

[Tim Bontemps]

No, they were not on the same. They're not on the same level as the Pacers. It's really not close. They don't have the ability to guard the Pacers. It's like I talked about it going into the series, they can't guard the Pacers and they can't keep up with the Pacers on offense. That's a really bad combination, to put it mildly, if you're trying to win four out of seven. And look, the Pacers can't stop Giannis. He's been an absolute wrecking ball, one man wrecking ball through the first two games. But they, they're drawn dead otherwise. Brook Lopez is our third best player. They keep taking him off the court. Kyle Kuzma hit a couple shots in the third quarter. He had another rough game. Doc closed with him. I'm not really sure why. Dame played 37 minutes sort of remarkably after more than sort of remarkably after not playing for six weeks. But he hit one shot down the stretch. I think his legs clearly caught up to him in the second half.

[Brian Windhorst]

Understandably, his lack of impact was not surprising.

[Tim Bontemps]

No, I mean, he gave him more than I expected in minutes and production. Like he had 14 points, he had some assists, he moved the ball, he hit a couple shots late like he. You couldn't have asked for more than that for him.

[Brian Windhorst]

I agree. But yeah, Portis, by the way, 11 of 19, 6 of 11 from 312 rebounds, 28 points.

[Tim Bontemps]

Yeah, I mean he was, he was a monster. But look, in the final few minutes of the game when the Bucks got back into it, the Pacers had five wide open threes in a row and missed four of them. Like it's the only reason the game even got remotely close at the end. Like the Bucks just have not shown any ability to guard them. And I mean, look, they shot 50% from the field and 40% from three in this game. And it was a double digit game the whole game.

[Brian Windhorst]

Yeah. Okay. It actually got down to 2. 115, 113.

[Tim Bontemps]

Was that, that was when Dame, that was when dame hit the three, I believe from the top.

[Brian Windhorst]

No. Yes. That 30, 30 footer that he hit, that's.

[Tim Bontemps]

He hit a bomb from the top of the key and got it down to 2.

[Brian Windhorst]

Let me walk that back. I guess in that moment they. They had a shot, but.

[Tim Bontemps]

But it still didn't feel like it, though.

[Brian Windhorst]

Siakam came back and hit a three to put a.

[Ben McMahon]

You know, well, and, and, and here's the deal, dude. Like, they had to rally to have a chance when Giannis is putting up a crazy efficient 30 and when Portis.

[Tim Bontemps]

Is putting up 28 on efficient shooting off the bench.

[Ben McMahon]

And, like, it looks like the Bucks are about to get bounced in the first round again, this time with a healthy Giannis.

[Brian Windhorst]

And Giannis has been just awesome this season. He is, he's, he's clearly understood that they're challenged, and he has cut the BS out of his game and cut the fat out of his game and tried doing everything he can to carry this team, and they're just not good enough. And what's, and what is he supposed to do? Like, like, this is the, this is the, the, the elephant in the room in the league right now. They're all. This team is losing tens of millions of dollars. Tens of millions of dollars. They're. They have no, they're out all their draft picks. They. Lopez and, and Portis are free agents. I think Dame's up for an extension. I, I don't know. I don't know what you do about that.

[Ben McMahon]

You don't extend them.

[Brian Windhorst]

I agree.

[Ben McMahon]

Sorry.

[Brian Windhorst]

You know, fine. I, I, you know, I don't.

[Ben McMahon]

They're in a tough spot.

[Brian Windhorst]

What are we talking about here?

[Ben McMahon]

They want a title, so that's nice, but, like, there's a. It's a bleak future and, like, what's Giannis supposed to do this summer? Like, he's, he's seen this thing through and he has a decision to make. Does he want to be a one franchise guy, or does he want to contend for championships while he's still in his prime? You know, and whatever, Whatever he chooses, it's his choice. Like, there's not a wrong answer. I wouldn't fault the guy either way, but that's the decision.

[Tim Bontemps]

He also just went on his brother's podcast and said something along the lines of, I'm trying to find the quote. But he essentially said, I need to win another title or I feel like I. My career won't be complete if I don't win another title. Trying to find this.

[Ben McMahon]

That's a pretty strong hint.

[Brian Windhorst]

That's pretty strong. But he has said things like, in that realm before. Like, it's not like he hasn't broken new ground there, but it's, but it's fresh.

[Ben McMahon]

But he, in the times that he said that before the Bucks were able to make moves to, you know, Drew Holiday, Boom. He signs the extension right after that, they win a title. You know, then he's getting, you know, itchy again, kind of push, push, push. They. They trade for Dane, he signs the extension. Now, the Dame thing obviously hasn't paid the dividends that the Bucks hoped it would. Frankly, that I thought it would. I was wrong on that. But it's like, there's not. I don't think the Bucks have the ability to make that big splash kind of move again if he's itching. I don't think they have the. The assets to make the kind of move that would.

[Tim Bontemps]

Well, they just. We don't have to say we think they don't. I also don't know if Giannis actually said that recently on the podcast, so stat on that. But, look, the Bucks are who they are, roster wise. That much is clear. And what they are, roster wise, is a team that's not one of the four best teams in the east, and they don't look that close to the third or fourth best team in the East.

[Ben McMahon]

They're not. Not a top 10 team in the league.

[Brian Windhorst]

Yeah, I mean, when you put it like that, I'm trying to think about that, and I would be like, yeah, I think that's.

[Tim Bontemps]

I mean, they're not one of the four best teams in the east, and the east ain't nearly as good as the West. So, you know, whatever, wherever they're at, they're not close to being at the.

[Brian Windhorst]

Level that you're not going to be at. They're not getting. I don't see how they possibly get better. You know, they. They. They're gonna. They're gonna. They're gonna have to. They'd have. I'm not sure, even if they wanted to, they could bring this. Even if this team was a championship team, I don't think. I don't think it could bring this team back.

[Tim Bontemps]

Well, look, here's the other thing, right? They've been an expensive team for a long time, and if you lose in the first round for a third straight year, are you gonna be expected to pay the tax? I would assume no. Brook Lopez is a free agent this summer. It's an expensive team. Like, if. If you're going to try to be under the tax and bring this group back, that's going to be hard to do. It's not impossible, but it's hard. So, you know, you're already looking at trying to dance that.

[Brian Windhorst]

I mean, let's just Be honest with it. Like, you would be in the second apron because of Giannis. You can't be a second apron team with this, with this roster. You just can't. It's not responsible. And so if you're going to get out of the second apron, you're going to. You're going to lose a key piece, so you're just inherently going to get farther away. Like, this is just comes down to arithmetic right now.

[Tim Bontemps]

Well, it's not even about being in the second apron, so, like, they're not going to be that high, but it's about being in the tax at all. And again, like, at they. I mean, this ownership group in a small market over the past several years has spent a ton of tax money. Like, they have gone for it.

[Brian Windhorst]

They are. They. I would. No one has told me this, but I would educatedly guess that they have. In the last. Over the last three years, they've lost over $100 million.

[Tim Bontemps]

Yeah, I mean, I don't know the numbers, but they've spent a ton. They've. They've maxed out, they've traded stuff away. They went. They, They've done what you could hope to do if you're a fan trying to compete, but they're now at the point where you got to start paying the bills. And, yeah, like, it's just hard to see, like you said, McMahon, it's hard to see what the move is that gets them from where they are right now to good enough to beat Indiana, let alone good enough to beat Boston.

[Ben McMahon]

When they don't have any control of their first round pick until 2031.

[Tim Bontemps]

Right.

[Brian Windhorst]

I don't think they even got a second round pick until 2031.

[Tim Bontemps]

They have one, I think, of each over the next seven years.

[Brian Windhorst]

Oh, my God.

[Ben McMahon]

I mean, listen, they've. They've burned everything they have to try to build another contender or another championship team around Giannis, and they're not close right now.

[Brian Windhorst]

And when they started the contention run, giannis was like 23, and now he's 30. And they, they, they were. They were in it for seven years, and probably four of those years they had teams that were good enough to win the title, and they won one, which is a hell of a lot better than winning none.

[Ben McMahon]

Hey, Jackson actually did some producing and he found that, quote, Giannis, on his brother's pod, me not having a second championship. I look back at my career and everybody can say, oh, incredible career, active hall of Famer, first ballot, whatever. But me, my personal goal, if I'm not Able to help my team win a second ring. I'm letting down myself. I really want to win a second one.

[Tim Bontemps]

Yeah, well, if he wants to win a second one, it's hard to see the path to doing it in Milwaukee in the last couple years. You could point to injuries and yes, the Dane thing was unfortunate, but Dame is now back and Dame isn't solving the defense problems that they have. And you know, I don't think, I.

[Brian Windhorst]

Don'T think Dame at this point is giving them more than he's given them. Maybe I could be wrong, but.

[Tim Bontemps]

Right.

[Brian Windhorst]

Let's just.

[Tim Bontemps]

It's just a. It's hard to. It's hard to see this team being better than what it is, which has been a great run, like you said, but they're going to have some real decisions to make this summer, both they and Giannis.

[Brian Windhorst]

So he has, he has two years left on his contract and then a player option. Now. Let me just say I am on the record several times as not thinking that the Kevin Durant market is going to be what the Suns think it is, because. Not that there's not going to be teams who want him, I think there's going to be a lot of teams who want him. I just think that the alignment that you're going to need of a team that has a package that the Suns are going to want. A team where Durant is going to want to play and go on.

[Tim Bontemps]

No. And a team that's going to be willing to give Kevin Durant a ton of money. I was saying. And because they knew what you were going to say next, I said, yeah, so those.

[Ben McMahon]

Although I wouldn't be certain. It's got to be the, the full blown max.

[Brian Windhorst]

Nonetheless, we'll see. You know, my big thing on Durant.

[Tim Bontemps]

Is ton of money for a 37 year old guy who misses a lot of time with injuries. Hard to do.

[Brian Windhorst]

My thing on Durant is it's possible this ends up being a team renting him. I'm not saying that's what's likely. I'm saying that that's possible. Okay. And we'll talk about Durant ad nauseam for months. Giannis, on the other hand, I think you can get a gigantic call for.

[Ben McMahon]

I mean, he's 30, so he's got plenty of prime 30.

[Tim Bontemps]

This is, this is a, this is really, this is a really bold take. Big band. You can get, you could get a ha. For a top five player in the world who is.

[Brian Windhorst]

Well, there are many people who are maybe casual observers of the NBA who would think that Durant and Giannis would be comparable in the trades? And I would say no. Sure, I would say. And it would actually, it might even hurt if, if Giannis comes to market, it might even hurt the Suns because it unquestionably.

[Tim Bontemps]

It unquestionably hurts their leverage. There's no question about that. Because he's not the best player available. And so if whatever the best package that straight it is, it's going to be for Giannis. If Giannis again, we're getting a little.

[Brian Windhorst]

Bit ahead, but I realize we're getting ahead, but I don't know what, you know, this is what people in the league are talking about as they're watching.

[Tim Bontemps]

This series, for sure.

[Brian Windhorst]

And the other thing I'll say is from talking to people in and around Milwaukee, Giannis has given no indication throughout this entire season that he is not 100% focused on maximizing what the Bucs have. This is people in the league looking at the lay of the land, not, you know, anything that Giannis has said to anybody.

[Tim Bontemps]

Well, and like you said, like, what do we say all the time? Actions over words, right? Giannis's actions are. He's been flat out balling for months and dragging these guys along, carrying them down the stretch without Dame. Like, he's been incredible all season.

[Brian Windhorst]

All right, so look, to be continued. The Bucs get to go home. They can look at you in the eye and say the Pacers did what they were supposed to, won the two home games. But I have talked about the teams in the west not being adequately, properly seeded because their quality and their talent doesn't match their seed. In this case, Milwaukee's not playing like a five seed right now. Maybe they'll look different next week or later this week. I guess we're in a new week. We'll see. Guys as disappointed as I was in the display at the end of Lakers Minnesota, I was wide awake on Monday night watching the end of the Clippers and the Nuggets.

[Ben McMahon]

Street Life versus Spotlight, baby. Those Streetlights look good right now.

[Brian Windhorst]

Let me tell you something. Number two for the Clippers, Kawhi Leonard. This is what the dreams were made of back in 2019.

[Ben McMahon]

He is moving well. He is springy. And I mean, dude, 39 points and only missed four shots from the floor as a wing player. Are you kidding me?

[Tim Bontemps]

Incredible.

[Brian Windhorst]

And like, there were times where Aaron Gordon had really good position and good contests. And Kawhi's like, I'm getting to that spot right there and I'm rising up above you and the ball. You know, Kobe, when Kobe used to shoot the ball, the ball went in the net. Like he had this certain way that the ball was sort of hit the back of the net. Yeah. I almost think you could just show me the net and I could see the ball go through. And that was like a Kobe shot. Because Kawhi has the ability to elevate and get his arms way up there. He shoots at this angle. And like you almost. When the ball goes through the net and Kawhi is feeling good, there's like this special Kawhi angle that it goes through the net in. That's what was happening.

[Tim Bontemps]

Yeah. It goes in sideways.

[Brian Windhorst]

Yes. Because he, like shoots almost line drives, but it's so calibrated, which is probably why when he's not at his best, you know, you really notice it. But he is at his best right now. And the defensive end, I think the numbers from Sig said that The Nuggets were 2 of 12 with. He was a primary defender.

[Tim Bontemps]

Well, like between him and Dubach and Chris Dunn.

[Brian Windhorst]

Also Derrick Jones, like, throw it. Throw a lazy pass to Derek Jones's side of the floor and see what happens.

[Tim Bontemps]

Yep. I mean, the Clippers are. Clippers are playing fantastic ball.

[Ben McMahon]

I'll tell you this. If you're a franchise that wants to build around defense, Derrick Jones is a good guy to have on your roster. You want to keep them.

[Brian Windhorst]

I mean, McMahon is truly on an elite run right now. He is a good defensive player.

[Ben McMahon]

It's always a dog. He's really helped.

[Tim Bontemps]

He's a dog with a bone in his mouth. And it's going to be there for a long time.

[Ben McMahon]

I don't think it'll be there that long. I don't think it'll be there that long, buddy.

[Brian Windhorst]

That bone has four letters on it. It starts with N. Okay. The Nuggets have a couple of problems. One problem is that Kawhi looks like it's 2019. Another problem is that Aaron Gordon. I'm sorry. That Michael Porter, who is an extremely important player for them because he's a variance player and when he shoots his hits, his threes, it really elevates their offense because they're a bad three point shooting team. Also, they're a thin team. And so anybody who is affected by any sort of injury in their top five, it's a red. It's a red light. He sprained his shoulder, had to come out of the game when the game was on the line.

[Tim Bontemps]

He got landed on late in the game and was immediately Grabbing at his arm.

[Brian Windhorst]

And by the way, he announced, he said, I sprained my shoulder. So that's not good. I'm not an orthopedist, but that's not good. And they're going to the. And they're going to LA now. And Jokic has been fine, like his standards, but he was not great in this in game, too. Like, he put up good numbers, but he had turnovers. He missed some shots.

[Tim Bontemps]

Well, Zubac played incredibly well defensively. I mean, Jokic is always going to put up huge numbers, but, I mean, he was as uncomfortable as he's going to look going up against him.

[Brian Windhorst]

So, I mean, I have huge respect for the Nuggets. Here's. Here's the thing. Just get the bottom line. And Westbrook played a lot fewer minutes in game two than he did in game one. If you have Russell Westbrook, wherever you are, on the Russell Westbrook spectrum of love hate, you want to have the option of Russell Westbrook. You don't want to have to play Russell Westbrook. If you have to play Russell Westbrook, you're gonna have trouble. I don't care what anybody says. Everybody cooked.

[Tim Bontemps]

They're cooked if they have to play.

[Brian Windhorst]

Here's the problem.

[Ben McMahon]

There's no such thing as the option of Russell Westbrook, because if he's not playing, you're gonna.

[Tim Bontemps]

Well, but Brian's point is presence there.

[Ben McMahon]

That's not necessarily positive.

[Tim Bontemps]

Sure. But Brian's point is, in game two, he played 23 minutes. If Michael Porter's not available, he's playing 40. And if he's playing 40, the bad is going to outweigh the good and you're going to lose, especially in a series like this, which is a, at minimum, conference semifinal series. This is not a first round series.

[Brian Windhorst]

I've seen some conference finals that don't have me as excited as this.

[Tim Bontemps]

Yeah, I mean, this, it, this is a titanic showdown. And a guy like Russ, yes, he made the big plays at the end of the game in game one and helped them pull it out. But again, to go back to the tweet from the other day, it's the Mario Kart item box. And the item box is going to come up with a lot more banana peels than stars if you have them out there for 40 minutes.

[Ben McMahon]

If the Clippers thought Russell Westbrook was a guy you wanted on a contending team, they wouldn't have traded him after he opted into his contract.

[Tim Bontemps]

There you go.

[Brian Windhorst]

Russell Westbrook has been traded to the Jazz twice and cut by the Jazz twice. In three years. I mean, that's, that's the answer to a trivia question. So, look, Jokic has the ability to do some special things. Harden has the ability. I was, I was doing some research on James Harden and I came across a story that somebody wrote a couple years ago that was like. It was titled the 15 Worst Playoff Games of James Harden's Career.

[Tim Bontemps]

It's like we talked about the other day, though. The Nuggets don't really have anybody to guard him. There's not a good matchup for him in this series. Like, he, he wasn't, he wasn't as good in game two, but he had another good game in game two.

[Brian Windhorst]

Right. But I'm just saying a hardened stinker is on the table just because it happens. Sure. I point something else out. This is James Harden's 16th season. It's the 16th time he's been the playoffs.

[Tim Bontemps]

Yep.

[Brian Windhorst]

You know, he's had a lot of good playoff games too, but, you know, he clearly understood that Kawhi was cooking and he was just feeding the ball. Feeding the ball feed. It was really just isolation basketball. They were just giving him the ball and he, he had this, he has this ability to take two steps and get open.

[Tim Bontemps]

Like it's once again, though, too. 50 to 32 on the boards, 15 offensive rebounds for Denver. That is going to be something to really.

[Brian Windhorst]

Denver. Denver. Denver had 20 turnovers too. Like, they've got a. They've got a. They got to squeeze down that possession game well.

[Ben McMahon]

And Joker. Joker had seven. That's. I, I don't think that's going to happen again.

[Tim Bontemps]

Joker.

[Ben McMahon]

Weird, like, late in the game, there was that weird, like, panic shot where the shot clock wasn't even ticking down. Like, it was just. There's some weird games. Missed a couple free throws on. On one trip.

[Tim Bontemps]

And by the way, Porter had 15 and 15 in this game. That's six offensive rebounds. Like, he's not a perfect player. He's probably making more than he should be in terms of trying to have a efficient cap sheet, but he's still a good player who has proven to have big moments for Denver. And if he's not able to go, like you said, Brian, this is already the worst three point shooting team in the league. You take him out of the lineup, man, like, you're really going to be struggling to score.

[Brian Windhorst]

It is his left shoulder, so I think it's his left shoulder. So, you know, at least not just. Not his shooting shoulder, but.

[Tim Bontemps]

Right. But still, it's not great.

[Brian Windhorst]

All right. Thursday Night game three. Be there. Okay. In New York.

[Ben McMahon]

Now I got to watch fricking OKC in Memphis.

[Brian Windhorst]

Yeah, well, you're going to be done after four. And I'm going to encourage our bosses. Send McMahon. Send that series.

[Tim Bontemps]

I think we had a Denver stat.

[Ben McMahon]

I've already, I've publicly promised surveys and snuggle in the IT department. She's excited about that. She listened. She got, you know, just a little titillated there.

[Brian Windhorst]

Oh, my God, it's getting late.

[Ben McMahon]

More Hoop Collective podcast after this.

[Brian Windhorst]

There are people out there all across the country pushing boundaries to grow the game of golf. Like champion speed golfer Lauren Kupp, who plays faster than anyone else. And Will Lowrey, whose work in the golf community inspires more kids to get into the game. As a champion partner of the Masters, bank of America supports everyone determined to find out what's possible in golf and in life. What would you like the power to do? Bank of America? Bank of America, NA member FDIC. Copyright 2025 bank of America Corporation. All rights reserved. This episode is brought to you by State Farm. You might say all kinds of stuff when things go wrong, but these are.

[Tim Bontemps]

The words you really need to remember.

[Brian Windhorst]

Like a good neighbor, State Farm is there. They've got options to fit your unique insurance needs. Meaning you can talk to your agent to choose the coverage you need, have coverage options to protect the things you value most. File a claim right on the State Farm Mobile app, and even reach a real person when you need to talk to someone. Like a good neighbor, State Farm is.

[Tim Bontemps]

There Ryan Reynolds here from Mint Mobile with a message for everyone. Paying big wireless way too much. Please, for the love of everything good in this world, stop with Mint. You can get premium wireless for just $15 a month. Of course, if you enjoy overpaying, no judgments.

[Brian Windhorst]

But that's weird.

[Tim Bontemps]

Okay, one judgment. Anyway, give it a try. @mintmobile.com Switch upfront payment of $45 for 3 month plan, equivalent to $15 per month required. Intro rate first 3 months only, then full price plan options available, taxes and fees extra. See full terms@mint mobile.com.

[Brian Windhorst]

All right. In New York, bond temps.

[Tim Bontemps]

Yeah.

[Brian Windhorst]

Jalen Brunson has taken 27 shots in both Games 1 and Game 2. In Game 2, Carl Towns, who was on my All NBA team, mine too. Took 11 shots in a game where the. Where The Knicks scored 94 points. OG Anunoby, who just had the best offensive season of his career and was averaging, I believe 16 or 17 shots when Jalen was out. He's not. He's not out anymore. I get it. But he took 10 shots. The Knicks entire offense in the second half of that game felt like, give the ball to Jalen and have him try to draw a foul. However, he would do that. And Kate Cunningham ain't afraid of the moment. Oh, no, he ain't looking to draw fouls. He's looking for blood. Or he. He dishes it out. So I'm just going to say, while I still think the Knicks are okay and they can. They can win this series, they cannot play the way they played in game one and two and get away, frankly, let's be honest.

[Ben McMahon]

No, no, listen, Tibs, blame the refs. Tips, blame the refs.

[Tim Bontemps]

Listen, they should be down.02 in the series. They're lucky it's 1 1. They almost got away with it. And we're up 2 0. But watching this game, too, in particular, I went back and watched the game again afterward because I wanted to really look at it. And then every shot the Knicks took the whole game was hard. Like, they just don't get easy shots ever. And I have to admit, watching the game and seeing J.B. bickerstaff standing on the other sideline, maybe think a lot about Cavs corner and about the way the Cavs looked last year and the way the Cavs look this year. And I'm just saying it's something to think about that the way Tom has always had his teams operate offensively, which is basically have a guy like Jalen with the ball and he's going to orchestrate and set things up. What? Why? Making faces like that.

[Ben McMahon]

Go on, just finish your thought that I'm going to rip you.

[Tim Bontemps]

Okay. I mean, that's. He's typically always had, a lot of times a smaller guard and has had a lot of success with smaller guards, creating pretty efficient offense over time.

[Brian Windhorst]

John Lucas iii, Shout out Nate Robinson.

[Tim Bontemps]

One of you won a playoff series against the Nets with Nate Robinson. I mean, seven games.

[Ben McMahon]

D.J. augustine put up numbers for Tibbs.

[Tim Bontemps]

Yes. I mean, Tibbs is. Tibbs is. I'm not. Tibs knows how to win basketball games. But you watch this game in the second half and in particular. But even throughout the whole game, the Knicks shouldn't be having this much trouble getting clean looks against this Pistons team. Like, this isn't the Celtics. This isn't the Thunderboy defense. I mean, right? Like, this is a good team. J.B. bickerstaff's a good defensive coach. Like. But they were in cement the whole game. And it was like that in game one, too, at Least in game one, you could say that the Pistons shot the lights out in the first three quarters and Tobias Harris wasn't going to score 22 points and a half and they weren't going to go 60% from three in the game. Two, the Pistons didn't play well. The Pistons couldn't hit a shot and they still won the game. So I got a lot of concerns about where the Knicks are at. I did not think the series would be that competitive. I'm frankly shocked with how the first two games have gone and the offensive stuff is very problematic and I think it's got to change in a hurry. And I did not think it was the best look for Tom to come in after the game and start yelling about the free throw disparity.

[Brian Windhorst]

Oh, my God.

[Tim Bontemps]

That was not the reason lost the game.

[Brian Windhorst]

All the headlines were his rant. But that was just. I mean, I'm not saying he didn't have a point or two, but it was. It's just bad look to complain about officiating when Brunson is just foul hunting everywhere. I'm hard in foul hunting, you know, Bad look.

[Ben McMahon]

It's a bad look to take a. A little swipe at. Just business. Bickerstaff just blindsided Bickerstaff. Now the man just broke. How long was that Pistons playoff wind drought? Like 15 years or something like that.

[Brian Windhorst]

2008, I think.

[Tim Bontemps]

Who's taking a swipe at him?

[Ben McMahon]

You did. You said Dolphins stunk last year and seeing JB reminded you of that.

[Tim Bontemps]

Do the cat have the Cavs not leveled up multiple times on offense this year?

[Ben McMahon]

Okay.

[Brian Windhorst]

From like 15th to 1st without changing.

[Tim Bontemps]

I mean, JB's a very good coach.

[Ben McMahon]

Broken jaw last year.

[Brian Windhorst]

And then Ty Jerome had elevated to God.

[Ben McMahon]

Hey, remember going in this series, I said, are we sure Jalen Brunson is the best player in the series? He hasn't been so far. And you know, I, you know, listen, I'm, I'm a Brunson guy, but I'm just saying Cade Cunningham has been the best player clearly so far this series. That has to change if the Knicks are going to avoid an upset.

[Tim Bontemps]

I mean, Cade was. Cade was not good in game one. I mean, he, he was great in game two. He was great in game two, but he did not have a good game one. But look, the Pistons to again talk about JB a couple years ago when the Cavs showed up, right? They came to the Garden. Young and experienced team coming to the Garden. They were completely overwhelmed. And looked it. The Pistons have not been overwhelmed at all. And other than that brief stretch in the fourth quarter of Game one, they have more than acquitted themselves in a hostile road environment and against a team that's won a bunch of playoff games. And I've been super impressed with the way they handle things, especially with Isaiah Stewart, a really good defensive big not even playing in Game two because of a knee issue. Like I thought that was going to be a huge problem for the Pistons. It didn't matter at all.

[Ben McMahon]

Okay, let me ask this Cat getting barely any shots in the second half obviously is a problem. It's also something that's happened with Cat repeatedly over the course of his playoff career, going all the way back to his first series when I thought him and Tibbs were going to passive aggressively murder each other.

[Tim Bontemps]

Yeah.

[Ben McMahon]

Who do we blame for. For Cat just being a complete non factor in the second half. Just not even a non like completely uninvolved.

[Tim Bontemps]

Everybody. It's everybody's fault. This is the same thing as Brunson Sixers.

[Brian Windhorst]

It's Brunson's fault too.

[Tim Bontemps]

Yes, it's the same thing as Celtic Sixers. Game six, the final six minutes of that game in 2022 when Joel, I think either had one shot or one touch in the final six minutes and they blew that series at home. Right after that game I said it was Joel's fault, James Harden's fault and Doc's fault because the combination of those guys didn't get you all the ball. Right. This is the same thing. Jalen was pounding the ball way too much. Every time Mikhail Bridges touched the ball in the second half, it was out of his hand in a shot in point three seconds there was no attempt to pass the ball.

[Brian Windhorst]

And then point two of that was a hitch going up to his release.

[Tim Bontemps]

Right. But there is no thought of passing. Right. The Knicks in general are not a very good passing team. They don't. They're not a natural ball movement team to begin with. Jalen is not a like Steve Nash point guard or Tyrese Halberton kind of point guard. Cat can make really good passes. He's not an instinctual passer. OG and Mikhail are not really. Josh Hart moves the ball well. But again, it's not like they just don't. They're not really going to be a good ball movement team in general. But there was way too much isoball. There was way too much foul hunting. Cat was not aggressive enough, didn't try to. They didn't try to force him. The ball with Tobias Harris on him like it was a group effort that had him with 12 shots. But ultimately it's just too, it was too much Jalen and it was too much just isolation ramming your heads into the wall over and over again. And this team has too much talent to just not be getting decent open looks on offense.

[Brian Windhorst]

Look, the, the Pistons won a game on the road, first playoff game in decades. And Malik Beasley and Tim Hardaway Jr. Won one of 14 on threes.

[Ben McMahon]

Wow.

[Tim Bontemps]

They were 6 for 27 as a team and won the game.

[Brian Windhorst]

Now Dennis Schroeder had one of his Schroeder things where he does crazy stuff every now and then.

[Ben McMahon]

But also Brunson had a any and he admitted this without even being asked about it. Brunson had a bad defensive bust that let Schroeder walk into a big time clutch. 3.

[Tim Bontemps]

Yep.

[Brian Windhorst]

Game 3 Thursday night, little Caesars arena. Has Has LCA ever hosted a playoff game?

[Tim Bontemps]

Yes, I think the, I think the Blake year was. I thought there was Little Caesars with later but yeah, the first year they haven't been there. Yeah, 20, 18, 19. They played games there.

[Brian Windhorst]

All right.

[Tim Bontemps]

Well played the Bucks in the first round.

[Brian Windhorst]

Guys. We've been focused on playoff basketball. We haven't talked about some of the transactions and I'm not talking about players, I'm not talking about coaches, the guys who do the transactions. We've had an unusually high turnover in front office firings in the last seven to 10 days. Most recently a relatively surprising move for the Atlanta Hawks to fire general manager Landry Fields after less than three years on the job. You know, the thing about it was the previous regime did the Dejounte Murray trade was. It was less than. Was it only two years? Anyway, the previous regime did the Dejounte Murray trade, which was a disaster trade and basically Travis Schlenk, who was the GM at the time, essentially held a put out a press release. I didn't do this trade. It was done by ownership and he exits stage right. Landry Fields comes in and has been trying to clean up that situation, including trading dejante Murray. Trading. Yes. Very good. As it turned out, getting off some long term money by trading away DeAndre Hunter. Although Hunter has been great in Cleveland Drought, you know, developing some young guys. And this felt like sort of the middle of a project. Obviously the Hawks aren't great. They didn't make the playoffs. Felt like the middle of a project and he gets fired.

[Ben McMahon]

Yeah, and there were obviously rumblings about that for last couple months or whatever.

[Brian Windhorst]

But not, not really loud like Maybe. I, I, you know, I didn't think, I thought he was, I thought he had a year left at least. And so I was, I was kind of surprised.

[Ben McMahon]

It's interesting because they do have a nice, they put together a nice Young core.

[Brian Windhorst]

Well, look, the big thing with Atlanta, not to jump on you. Sorry, go ahead. Trey Young is extension eligible.

[Ben McMahon]

He's also trade eligible.

[Brian Windhorst]

So he's got.

[Tim Bontemps]

Forget. Even for. Yeah, forget. Even the, forget the extension. He's got one guaranteed year left on his contract and then he's got a player option. And if you go to the release that the Hawks put out, which by the way included Nazisaw getting promoted to general manager in the interim, or not in the interim, he's promoted to general manager. And they've said they're going to look for a president of basketball operations.

[Brian Windhorst]

Ansi Salah is one of the bright Young executives in the league. It is not surprising he became a general manager. He came over to the Hawks from the warriors, where he had an excellent reputation, and he was sort of blocked there. The warriors have sort of a, you know, they have a good front office and he, you know, he, he probably, if he was another team, might have gone up further.

[Tim Bontemps]

But anyway, he showed up this time last year and a lot of smart things have gone on over the last year.

[Brian Windhorst]

So Ansi Salah getting the job, but he didn't really get the job. He, he was named general manager. And then Tony Rustler said in the press release that I, well, the Hawk said it's essentially Tony Rustler, the owner. He said he's going to hire somebody over the top of him, which is unusual. If you name a guy general manager and then say that you're going to hire a boss over him who didn't hire him? It, it, it doesn't make a lot of sense, but either way, they got to figure out something with Trey.

[Tim Bontemps]

Well, yes, and in part of their, part of. The statement from Tony Ressler in here said, as we enter this pivotal offseason, we have several complex decisions ahead of us and we are committed to providing the human and financial resources to ensure that we navigate these decisions with a high level of precision and foresight. Forget the second part of that. It's we have several complex decisions ahead of us. The main complex decision is what do you do with Trey Young? Which is a fascinating question. It gets to sort of the heart of team building in the new collective bargaining agreement era. And how much do you pay? And how long do you pay a guy like Trae Young who is A very, very good player, but also has pronounced flaws that are going to limit the ceiling of your team.

[Brian Windhorst]

Okay, so that's the Hawks. More to come on that later.

[Tim Bontemps]

Okay.

[Brian Windhorst]

Also Tuesday, Joe Dumars, hall of Famer introduced as the new president in New Orleans, non committal, was what I would say about his comments on Zion Williamson and Willie Green. I mean, Willie Green is going to remain the coach.

[Tim Bontemps]

Let's set Willie Green aside.

[Brian Windhorst]

Okay.

[Tim Bontemps]

The question there is the same question we just talked about with Atlanta. What's going to happen with Zion Williamson? And as you said, the answer from Joe Dumars was not, we're all in on Zion Williamson. It wasn't. We're trading him, but it wasn't, we're all in on him. Which says all you need to know, I think about the situation, you read.

[Ben McMahon]

Between the lines, they're at least going to explore the market.

[Tim Bontemps]

Well, that's my point. He didn't say. He didn't say Zion's our guy. He didn't say he's not, but he didn't say he is.

[Ben McMahon]

I think. I think you might be surprised by the market for Zion in a positive way.

[Brian Windhorst]

Well, first off, let me say, I don't know what the my favorite quote of the day from Joe Dumars because, you know, Joe Dumars has just come from the NBA League office where he was director of operations, but he was the discipline czar.

[Tim Bontemps]

Okay, we should talk about that for a minute, too, but go and do.

[Brian Windhorst]

This first quote at the league office. I've had to talk to Zion a few times.

[Tim Bontemps]

That is certainly true.

[Ben McMahon]

Well, that's probably not going to pump up his trade value, but when Zion got on the floor this year, he did his part and then, you know, they were tanking down the stretch. So like the fact he didn't play down the stretch, I don't think deflates his trade value anymore.

[Tim Bontemps]

Well, it'll be interesting to see what his value is. But the, the league office part of this is interesting because Joe Dumars, as you said, was VP of Bass operations for the league and was involved in all sorts of like any of the stuff you heard about the All Star Game, the playing tournament, all the kind of the competition committee stuff we talk about, certainly the discipline stuff. He's involved in all that kind of stuff. It took him a while to hire Joe Dumars the last time. It will be interesting to see who they replace him with. And him leaving at the start of the playoffs puts the NBA League office in a bit of an Interesting spot. Now they've got Byron Spruell, they've got Evan Wash, they've got Tim Cook, they've got a bunch of people who are going to be involved in picking up the various parts of Joe's job while he's not there. But it will be interesting to see what that looks like because people don't think about that job necessarily when they think about important roles within the league. But that job is a very important job in terms of a lot of stuff that happens within the league. And Joe Dumars leaving it creates a vacuum. It'll be interesting to see how it's.

[Brian Windhorst]

Filled in terms of what happens between the four lines. The person in that job is more important than Adam Silver.

[Ben McMahon]

So who's responsible for the Ant? The Ant. Fine Levy.

[Brian Windhorst]

That was Joe's last thing right as he closed his office. He finds, by the way, as a quick. As a quick aside. And Edwards got fined for referencing his manhood to a fan in, in LA on after game one. But that wasn't my favorite part of the. Of the situation.

[Ben McMahon]

Your favorite part, so to speak. Go on.

[Brian Windhorst]

Yeah, clearly it was that Ant started that. Oh yes, defending Rudy Gobert. Some guy was trash talking Rudy Gobert, which happens quite often, even by NBA players. And Ant was saying, this guy's made $200 million. He's got. He's a $200 million player. And Rudy steps in and says, no, no. And he uses the European three. He's like, no, no, 300 million. Excuse me, excuse me, Ant. Not 200 million, 300 million.

[Tim Bontemps]

Just an all time line.

[Brian Windhorst]

And Ant's like, I'm sorry, you're correct. 300 million, sir. Yeah. I don't know who issued that fine, but Ann has been fined seven times this year. I will say one more thing before I move on from Dumars. Gail Benson, the owner of the New Orleans Pelicans, had this quote. And maybe it's cursory, maybe it doesn't mean anything, maybe it's something you say at a press conference for a president, but I think I should mention it. Quote, he has my full support to make any decision he deems necessary. So he had good things to say about Willie Green, but you know, didn't announce he was giving him a five year contract. Extent. Did not announce he was giving him.

[Tim Bontemps]

A contract offense to Willie Green. That's. That's not the relevant thing. The relevant thing is what's going to happen with Zion Williamson. And like you said, McMahon, what was, what was clear out of today is that The Pelicans are not all in on Zion Williamson, so take that as you will.

[Ben McMahon]

And honestly, I don't think Zion's all, all in on the Pelicans. I think Zion would not mind a change of scenery.

[Brian Windhorst]

There was a report last week, or multiple reports, whatever, that Dumars had some sort of mandate to trade Zion and he shot that down. But he didn't say, I will not trade him.

[Tim Bontemps]

That's right.

[Brian Windhorst]

Okay, there might be some more front office stuff to talk about, but it's.

[Tim Bontemps]

We should at least just mention the one other one that's happened, which is Scott Perry taking over in Sacramento, since there's only one other one.

[Brian Windhorst]

Our former teammate at espn, Scott Perry has been hired, rehired by the Kings. He was with the Kings for a few months, like seven or eight years ago. In both cases of Sacramento and New Orleans, there were veteran executives hired that had connections to the front office. And if there was a search, it was not apparent. And it was truncated because if it.

[Tim Bontemps]

Was, it lasted for about two hours in each case.

[Brian Windhorst]

Right.

[Ben McMahon]

Truncated is a great word.

[Brian Windhorst]

So look, you know, Scott Perry is. And the funny thing is, Scott Perry and Joe Dumars are, were contemporaries with the Pistons back when they were at their height. So I think Scott Perry was going to go with Joe Dumars to New Orleans if he didn't get the sack job. So everything from 2008 is new again. The Pistons are winning playoff games and Joe Dumars and Scott Perry are back at the helm of teams. So we will judge them on their actions, not their, not their words. Scott Perry, well, maybe more to say. Scott Perry is going to be, I think, giving his press conference Wednesday. I think so. Okay, guys, it's just about 2 in the morning on the East Coast. Oh, it's the first week of the NBA playoffs. I have covered one playoff game thus far and Here it is 2am and at 6am Mike Greenberg is expecting me to be on the zoom call to get ready for get up. So with that in mind, I would like to thank Jackson, our producer, thank Bon Thompson McMahon, and thank you for watching. Listen to Collective and I am going to sleep.

[Ben McMahon]

Bon temps of sleeping like a baby. I'm going to sleep in tomorrow morning. Snore right on through. Get up. No offense. Adios, amigos.