Latest Kawhi Situation Reaction & Major NBA Board of Governors Headlines

Summary

Brian Windhorst & The Hoop Collective: Latest Kawhi Situation Reaction & Major NBA Board of Governors Headlines

Episode Date: September 12, 2025
Host/Panel: Brian Windhorst, Tim Bontemps, Tim MacMahon, Christian McCaffrey (Guest)

Episode Overview

This episode dives deep into two of the NBA’s current high-drama storylines: the evolving investigation into alleged salary cap circumvention involving Kawhi Leonard and the LA Clippers, and headline topics from this week’s NBA Board of Governors (BOG) meeting. The panelists work through the shifting landscape of league governance, All-Star game changes, media rights impacts for fans, and wrap with targeted insights on new player contracts and gameplay tweaks.

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Key Discussion Points & Insights

1. The Kawhi Leonard/Clippers Salary Cap Investigation

(Starts ~02:34)

The Latest Developments

• Pablo Torre’s Revelations: Torre’s latest podcast unearthed bank documents and communications indicating that Dennis Wong (Clippers alternate governor, 1% owner) made a $2 million transfer from a fund he controlled to a company in financial distress—a week and a half before Kawhi Leonard received a $1.7M overdue payment. Wong’s daughter also worked at the company, raising further eyebrows.
• Burden of Proof: Adam Silver clarified the NBA, not the Clippers, bears the burden to prove any wrongdoing.
  • Christian McCaffrey [04:12]: “The burden of proof is on the NBA to determine whether the Clippers committed salary cap circumvention or not… Adam Silver came out and said definitively we’re going to let the investigation play out and then we’re going to see where it lands.”
• Adam Silver’s stance is that investigations must reveal clear, actionable evidence; circumstantial links aren't enough for the kind of severe punishment compared to precedents (e.g., the Joe Smith case).

Panel Reactions and Implications

• Increasing Suspicion:

  • The panel feels new evidence significantly undermines the Clippers’ plausible deniability (“…provide me a reasonable explanation for how this makes sense any other way.” – Windhorst, [09:07]).
  • Panelists acknowledge a “bad smell,” but stop short of flatly declaring guilt—waiting for full investigation results ([11:27]).

• Big Picture:

  • The Clippers’ defense that they were “conned” doesn’t align with the sequence and logic of transactions.
  • “Con artists don’t give $28 million away.” – Windhorst [13:08].

• Timing of Investigation:

  • No quick resolution; expect months, not weeks ([28:00]).

Notable Quotes & Timestamps

• “It’s not on the Clippers to show they’re innocent, it’s on us [the league] to show they are guilty.” — Christian McCaffrey, summarizing Adam Silver ([04:12])
• “If there was any air taken out of the balloon yesterday, that thing was pumped back up with helium.” — Brian Windhorst ([04:48])
• “The right answer usually is, if it stinks, it’s…” — Windhorst, referencing legal insight ([11:55])
• “You can fraud people in a lot of different ways.” — Christian McCaffrey ([13:28])

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2. Board of Governors (BOG) Hot Topics

(Starts ~22:46)

All-Star Game Changes

• Persistent Struggles:
  • Adam Silver reiterated the All-Star Game is still important for the league brand, despite chronic criticism.
  • The pod consensus: the NBA should accept the game’s “fun and celebratory” reality instead of seeking radical fixes every year.
    • "This has become a masochistic ritual... Every time you sit there and say we have the solution...then everybody goes ‘man, the All-Star Game sucks.’” — Christian McCaffrey ([24:29])
  • Proposed “US vs. World” or Ryder Cup-style changes earn skepticism and sarcasm ([25:42]).

Impacts of New Media Rights & Rising TV Costs for Fans

• Fan Frustration:
  • Adam Silver’s remarks downplaying fan inconvenience (“just watch clips on Instagram if you don’t want to pay”) triggered the panel:
    • "It is a serious thing like to get kids to watch basketball. I've got Hoopers in the house and they don't watch full games that much. They're watching those other ways. But the games matter." — Windhorst ([30:32])
  • Free TV Angle:
    • Tim Bontemps points out that, in some ways, there are more games on free TV (NBC, ABC) than before, but notes regional sports network (RSN) collapse still makes watching your team locally a headache and/or expensive ([32:58]).
  • League Pass Changes:
    • Transition to Amazon for League Pass discussed; some uncertainty about access via NBA app and cable packages ([37:27]).

Notable Quotes & Timestamps

• “Scroll in your phone and watch highlights...Come on, man.” — Windhorst ([30:36])
• "More people have Amazon Prime in this country than have cable or streaming packages." — Tim Bontemps ([32:58])

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3. Gameplay & Competition Committee Updates

(Starts ~45:16)

“Heaves” No Longer Hurt Player Stats

• NBA will now exclude last-second full-court "heaves" from players’ official shooting percentages.
  • “It’s shameful that it’s necessary, and I think it’s a missed opportunity. There should have been a sponsor, and a bonus for guys making them.” — Windhorst ([46:32])
• Honorable/dishonorable mention given to Jokic, Mikal Bridges, and others for their willingness or reluctance to attempt heaves ([47:54]).

Replay Reviews Move to the Replay Center

• Hopes for faster out-of-bounds and foul reviews ([50:09]).

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4. Contracts and NBA Roster Moves

(Starts ~50:47)

Josh Giddey Signs with Bulls

• Four-year, $100 million deal.
• The panel views it as solid but not a franchise-altering move.
  • “He is a limited player…but if you believe he's your franchise point guard, $25 million a year is a good number…assuming that's what you believe.” — Windhorst ([52:25])
  • "For the Bulls, who are perpetually fighting for a spot in the play in, Josh Giddey at $25 million a year would seemingly fall right in line with that." — Christian McCaffrey ([54:34])

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5. Other Noteworthy Board of Governors Topics

• Malik Beasley Investigation:

  • Ongoing league and possible federal investigation; Beasley unlikely to sign soon ([40:27]).

• Expansion Talk:

  • Silver indicates domestic (Seattle, Vegas) and European expansion are on “parallel tracks”; no “Europe-first” priority ([41:41]).

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Notable Quotes & Moments

• Panel's Tone:
  • Honest, skeptical, occasionally irreverent—especially regarding NBA bureaucracy and the All-Star Game saga.
• Panel’s Frustration with League Communication:
  • Consistent pushback on perceived league tone-deafness to real fan and competitive concerns.

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Timeline of Major Segments

| Timestamp | Topic | |-----------|-------| | 02:34 | Kawhi/Clippers salary cap circumvention saga | | 14:05 | Precedents for sponsorship/endorsement ties (Kawhi, Clippers) | | 22:46 | NBA All-Star Game changes and debate | | 28:00 | Investigation timing: “months, not weeks” | | 30:29 | NBA broadcast costs & streaming; fan access | | 36:00 | Adam Silver’s focus shift: "Offcourt drama vs. oncourt product" | | 45:16 | “Heaves” rule change explanation and stats | | 50:09 | Replay system overhaul (centralized reviews) | | 50:47 | Josh Giddey’s new Bulls contract: panel analysis | | 55:06 | Bulls’ cap situation and team-building approach | | 40:27 | Malik Beasley investigation update | | 41:41 | NBA expansion: domestic vs. European focus |

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Summary

The episode delivers a candid, well-informed dissection of the NBA’s hottest current issues: the precarious legal terrain facing the Clippers and Kawhi, the league's annual struggle with All-Star game relevance, shifting media dynamics affecting fans, and practical tweaks aimed at gameplay integrity. Throughout, Windhorst, Bontemps, McCaffrey, and MacMahon blend wit with sharp analysis and keep listeners grounded in the messy realities and personalities shaping pro basketball’s next chapter.

Transcript

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[Brian Windhorst]

Foreign.

[Tim Bontemps]

Welcome to the Hoop Collective podcast. We talk about the NBA, which we're doing on Thursday afternoon. Joining me from New York City where he attended the board of governors meeting this week and certainly was interesting, Tim Bonteps.

[Christian McCaffrey]

Hello, everybody.

[Tim Bontemps]

And joining us from Dallas, Texas, where he is recovering from playing a pickup game against a 6625 year old band. McMahon, what the hell are you doing to yourself?

[Brian Windhorst]

Howdy, partners. Zane, a longtime listener of the podcast, and he's like, third or fourth time I play these guys, he invites me out and he's like 34. He doesn't tell me like he's got these ringers. He's got. It's like a, it's a whole thing. So I don't know if I can keep playing in these games because I definitely tweaked my back. Plus, I believe I was the worst player on the floor. I was definitely the oldest by a long shot.

[Tim Bontemps]

This reminds me of the story that Mark Schlerith, our former colleague at ESPN, he played like 15 years with the Broncos and he had like 17 knee surgeries. Anyway, he was, he was at training camp and he was what? They were watching a film and he was like, oh my God, who is that awful offensive lineman? Oh my God, it's me. And he retired the next day when he looked at the video. That's you, McMahon. Pull the plug.

[Brian Windhorst]

Listen, the goal is to still play decent pickup basketball into my 50s. I ain't too far away, unfortunately.

[Tim Bontemps]

All right, well, that's definitely attainable, but not against these dudes. All right, let's get into the bog. Every year it's interesting, sometimes when there's bog meetings, Bontemps and I will huddle and say, boy, what is the agenda that we're going to start with the commissioner? Yesterday we had stuff that nobody could even get to Bontem.

[Christian McCaffrey]

So there were three or four topics that I knew I would, would not be asked and I would not have a chance to ask. And I asked about two separate ones during the press.

[Tim Bontemps]

Yes. Okay, so the floor is yours. Tell us what your feelings were coming out of that discussion.

[Christian McCaffrey]

We'll start with the Kawhi thing. Right. And I thought the single most important thing that was said yesterday was that the burden of proof is on the NBA to determine whether the Clippers committed salary cap circumvention or not. There's been a lot of discussion over the past week since Pablo Torre's first podcast. I'm sure we'll talk about his second podcast about whether circumstantial evidence will be enough to really nail the Clippers to the wall and get them a Joe Smith type punishment. My read coming out of that presser yesterday is that that is not the preference of the commissioner and not what I think the league will be looking to do. I'm not sure where this is going to go. We'll see where the totality of the investigation goes on this. As we've talked about before, the league has hired the law firm that did the Robert Sarver investigation. I believe they will dig into all this stuff. We'll see where it all lands. But I thought the way Adam Silver came out and said definitively we're going to let the investigation play out and then we're going to see where it lands. And I thought could, you know, very conclusively stating that it's not on the Clippers to show they're innocent, it's on us to show they are guilty. I think took some of the air out of the balloon in terms of just the tenor, not the. Not the heat on the Clippers, but the tenor of the discussion about how this is going to play out and what needs to happen. Now we have a very clear roadmap, at least in my opinion, of how this is going to go from a investigative standpoint and from a punishment standpoint. And the question now is, what is going to come out in that investigation in subsequent reporting by Pablo Torre, by us, by others, what else will be uncovered and where will this ultimately land? But I think the general expectation, I think, was that Adam Silver was going to go into that presser yesterday, Wednesday, this will run Friday, and say, well, we're investigating. We'll talk to you about it later. And I think by handling things the way he did, I think it at least cleared up some questions and some confusion about sort of what the contours of this overall picture are going to look like. Now it's a matter of waiting to see what all this stuff ultimately uncovers.

[Brian Windhorst]

If there was any air taken out of the balloon yesterday, that thing was pumped back up with helium.

[Christian McCaffrey]

To be clear, what I meant about that was what I meant about that was not about the interest in the story. What I meant was, I understand for the last week there's been back and forth discussion about is it on the Clippers to show that it's up to them to. Or that they didn't do anything wrong? Is it up to the lead to show that they did something like that? They actually found it, all that kind of stuff. And I think Adam. My only point was that Adam definitively said, this is what this thing, this is what the expectations are. We're going to do an investigation, we are going to figure out what we think happened, and then we are going to decide what to do about it. That that was what I meant at this point.

[Brian Windhorst]

It's not like this is creative dot connecting the lines to connect dots are straight and not very long. Pablo's latest podcast with the revelation that, hey, this bankrupt, this company going into bankruptcy, boy, boy, they've got an overdue $1.75 million payment.

[Tim Bontemps]

All right, yeah, let me. Before you let you go, let me just real quick summarize what Pablo. I'm sure a lot of our listeners know, but I'll summarize it real quick. Pablo came out with another revealing podcast on Thursday. In that podcast, he has documentation that I assume comes from employees who are no longer at the company. I don't know that, but he's got bank records. This is stuff that, you know, maybe the Justice Department has because of their investigation, but that the NBA wouldn't normally have. The NBA can't subpoena a company's bank records. They can say to the Clippers, give us your cell phones, give us your emails. They can't get this. So the NBA, of course, is learning about this the same time everybody else is, because they have no other way. They could certainly ask to interview employees or former employees, but those employees are under no obligation to do that. But that's neither here nor there. This bank record showed that the alternate governor, the 1% owner, the only other co owner besides Steve Ballmer, Dennis Wong, put $2 million from a fund that he controls into this company about a week and a half before Kauai got a $1.7 million payment that he was overdue to receive. And that is the core of the report. It also revealed that his daughter, Dennis Wong's daughter, was working for the company. To me, that's relevant, but we'll get to that in a minute. I just want to say, if you listen to our podcast, a couple of days ago when this came out, I believed that the Clippers had plausible deniability. You may have disregarded that and thought that they were guilty. I felt they had plausible deniability and I was willing to wait to let the investigation play out. This particular set of circumstances has, in my view, vastly less plausible deniability. I am still not going to convict them. It is still just a snapshot of the company's operations. But the plausible deniability that I think Steve Ballmer felt that he had when he went to talk to Ramona Shelburne on this one, I don't think is there with this.

[Christian McCaffrey]

And.

[Tim Bontemps]

Go ahead, McMahon.

[Brian Windhorst]

Well, and the other thing, like the Clippers, they're leaning on, hey, you know, you know, this company conned. You know, Ballmer said it to Ramona, this company conned me. You know, the Clippers. This company was a house of cars. Okay, sure. This company, you know, people are in jail, Their top executives are in jail for committing fraud. People who commit fraud steal money. They don't give it away. And just the fact that Ballmer gave them $50 million. Kawhi's deal initially was 28 million, plus 20 million in stock options. That's awfully suspicious. Now you've got an overdue payment of 1.75 million. Hey, here's the 2 million.

[Tim Bontemps]

I would caution the summation that 1 plus 1 equals 2 with that stuff because we're only seeing a sliver of their transactions. I will say this. In this particular instance, even though it's counterintuitive, a 2 million dollar investment is less justifiable than a $50 million, especially.

[Brian Windhorst]

The timing of the investment when it is clear this company is a complete mess. This is not. You're not investing $2 million as the ship sinks. You're donating it. That's a donation. That's not an investment. So there's. And that's. My whole thing is like, okay, if you want to give Ballmer the benefit of the doubt, despite, you know, the previous transgressions with DeAndre Jordan, despite the fact that, you know, that Kawhi had asked at least other franchises for stuff that's. That's not allowed. Okay, sure. It's getting more and more difficult to do. And I'm just like, provide me a reasonable explanation for how this is. This makes sense any other way.

[Christian McCaffrey]

Well, and on. I think that, that right there, that question, that's why it was incredibly important to me how Adam described how this is going to go yesterday because you. There have been people arguing for the last week, and I'm not saying like incorrectly, there's It's. The CBA is vague. Right. It says circumstantial evidence can be used. The commissioner obviously has very broad latitude to levy punishment by Adam saying it's not on the Clippers to prove their innocence in this story. I'm not. Again, as I said last week as we talked about it, I am not saying the Clippers are innocent, but the guy who's going to decide whether the Clippers are guilty said it's on us to prove it. So that is. That is what is going to define how this investigation plays out. Where the investigation goes and where it lands. I would agree. Without Brian. Summarize this though, in that I wouldn't say that what ha. What Pablo reported last week is easily explainable, but I think there are more ways to explain it in some way that's beyond cap circumvention than this later reporting is where if you look at this as you guys laid out, the timing of it, the amount o. The amount paid, how it all played out, it doesn't look. It looks worse than the stuff last week, and the stuff last week didn't look good. So we'll see where it goes from here. But this is not, it's all not looking great as of today for the. The Clippers.

[Brian Windhorst]

I've become pals with a high powered lawyer around these parts. And he actually literally just texted me, good idea. And I, I don't need him to defend me, but at least not, not at this point. But he says the really bad stuff comes from digging. This has gotten bad very quickly. Like most things in life, the right answer usually is, is if it stinks, it's.

[Christian McCaffrey]

Beep.

[Tim Bontemps]

All right, well, that's not relevant, but.

[Brian Windhorst]

I will say legal opinion, but it's a lawyer's view.

[Tim Bontemps]

I, I have no idea what was going on in the inner workings of this company. Aspiration. Okay. And I have no idea. I read what Pablo said was the title of Dennis Wong's daughter. I do know this.

[Christian McCaffrey]

What was the title? Just so our listeners know, in case they weren't.

[Tim Bontemps]

It was not trying to put you on the spot if you don't like it. It was not like finance department. It was, you know, she was in like a project role.

[Christian McCaffrey]

Sure.

[Tim Bontemps]

I'm saying I don't, I don't know her. I don't know the job. I'm just saying this broadly.

[Christian McCaffrey]

Mm.

[Tim Bontemps]

I can see a situation where you are, you are defrauded because an investment, a lot of times is impersonal.

[Brian Windhorst]

Yeah.

[Tim Bontemps]

Even. Even an investment of that nature is impersonal. Impersonal. You know, like, you know, you laid.

[Christian McCaffrey]

It out last week what $50 million means to Steve Ballman for people for the first pot.

[Tim Bontemps]

We talked about when your family members are working for the company. And I am not purporting anything about what her knowledge is. I have no idea what she discussed with her father or what her father may have discussed with Steve Ballmer. That's personal.

[Brian Windhorst]

Well, and again, I get that there was extremely shady basic con jobs being committed by the top dudes in this company. Con artists don't give $28 million away. So that. The, that part makes no sense.

[Christian McCaffrey]

The only thing I'll say to that. And I'm. I'm not. Again, I, I am not saying that the Clippers are innocent. I want to be clear. But like, I live in New York City. Bernie Madoff had one of the biggest fraud schemes in the history of finance. Right. And it was built on taking money from one person and giving it to another. That was the whole thing. So I, I don't think that alone says like, is proof that this happened. I'm only saying that if you're frauding people, you can fraud people in a.

[Tim Bontemps]

Lot of different ways also. Don't. That's because it's listed as fraud. Doesn't mean that that was. That they were just stealing money. Very clearly. It was a horribly run company.

[Christian McCaffrey]

Yes.

[Tim Bontemps]

Now, one thing I do think that should be pointed out. When Kawhi Leonard signed with The Clippers In 2019, the Clippers jersey sponsor was a company called Honey. Some sort of shopping coupon company.

[Christian McCaffrey]

Yeah.

[Tim Bontemps]

I believe Honey also had the sponsorship of the Clippers practice facility at the time. The Clippers are no longer in that practice facility. They now have a facility in Intuit Dome. When Kawhi Leonard came to the Clippers, he did an endorsement deal with Honey.

[Brian Windhorst]

How do you know that?

[Tim Bontemps]

How do I know it?

[Brian Windhorst]

Yeah.

[Tim Bontemps]

Because he did commercials for, oh, one.

[Brian Windhorst]

Of the unique things do for an endorsement deal.

[Tim Bontemps]

Yes. So, you know, the Clippers, you know, did have Kawhi Leonard do an endorsement deal with one of their primary sponsors. It did happen initially.

[Christian McCaffrey]

Completely fine.

[Brian Windhorst]

Completely legal. Completely acceptable. Cooper Flagg has an endorsement deal with China.

[Christian McCaffrey]

All sorts of. All sorts of guys do. As we talked about last week, What.

[Tim Bontemps]

I don't know is how much he was paid. But I have a. I can surmise it was not 28 million.

[Brian Windhorst]

But, but, and, and, and look, this is not like I don't know that Adam Silver can consider this ultimately after he sifts through the investigation, all the evidence and all that. But the simple fact of the matter is Kawhi Leonard and his Uncle Dennis decided long ago that all the NBA's rules and regulations do not apply to them. Okay? The salary cap rules, they don't apply to him. The injury report rules sure as hell don't apply to him. Any kind of load management rules, those don't apply to him. Tampering? Nah. Kawhi does whatever Kawhi and Uncle Dennis feel like he wants to do.

[Tim Bontemps]

And I do not dispute that assessment.

[Brian Windhorst]

You know, they just, I mean, they left the San Antonio spurs in shamble, but the Raptors benefited greatly. You know, they won a championship in this one year. But then, you know, I mean.

[Tim Bontemps]

But that statement doesn't implicate the Clippers. No, it may, it may take you on the path to implicating the Clippers.

[Brian Windhorst]

It doesn't. But if you get into business, if you decide to get into business with people who are consistently shady, you know, I don't know how much you deserve the benefit of the doubt when things come up that look really shady. That's all.

[Tim Bontemps]

I will say this. I was talking with a longtime executive today about this stuff and he said to me, you know what? He goes for me, you know, he goes, I haven't met with our owner yet since he got back from the bog, but at some point we're going to have a meeting and we're going to discuss this. And for us, you know, from our organization, what is our takeaway from this? And certainly there's, you know, you may want to take a look at your stars endorsements and all this stuff, but what is our takeaway from this? And he says, I know what I'm going to say. I'm going to say the path towards building a team is growing your own talent, drafting and growing your own talent. Because free agency and certainly Kawhi Leonard's free agency was one of the more unique ones in history, I think it's.

[Christian McCaffrey]

Worth pointing out, just to put a pin right there. Just, just really quick. Just really quick. Kawhi Leonard is like the one player, like, if you were going to pick a player in the league, maybe in the history of the league, who is going to be involved in something like this? To McMahon's point, it's quietly.

[Tim Bontemps]

Well, I don't know about that. I will give you this. It is extremely rare for the MVP of the finals to be an unrestricted free agent.

[Christian McCaffrey]

There's not another player that's after the Finals. There's not another player that's had the laundry list of things connected to them or surmised about them or talked about with them in this manner, like Kawhi. That's all.

[Tim Bontemps]

Okay, well, let me just ask you this. In the modern era of free agency, how many times has a free agent switched teams and it led to a title?

[Brian Windhorst]

LeBron with the Lakers.

[Tim Bontemps]

LeBron did it three times.

[Christian McCaffrey]

Durant.

[Brian Windhorst]

I'm sorry, KD with the. With the. And you know, there's factors there, obviously join a 73 win team.

[Christian McCaffrey]

But he counts, though. I mean, he won two.

[Tim Bontemps]

So LeBron did it three times. When he went to the Heat, when he went back to Cleveland, he went to the Lakers.

[Christian McCaffrey]

Right, right.

[Tim Bontemps]

Kawhi did it. I'm sorry, KD did it. There's an asterisk there because the team he joined. But sure, I have long been on the record as saying they don't win in 27, but they won.

[Brian Windhorst]

Yeah. Isaiah Hartenstein with the Oklahoma City Thunder.

[Tim Bontemps]

Let me write that down. It's not a pathway. And this Kawhi situation, who you probably would have put on that list, you know, I certainly believe that the Clippers were headed for it. But like the. The free agency pathway is very fraught. Very, very. And by the way, free agency is semi dead anyway because of the rules. But. But the free agents. This free agency was a freaking disaster.

[Brian Windhorst]

Absolutely.

[Tim Bontemps]

Getting worse by the year because it.

[Brian Windhorst]

Was also a free agency plus a drastically expensive trade that was more expensive because the trade was to seal the deal for the free agency signing. Now, having said that, and forgetting, like, let's just pretend it was all above board or even assume whatever, I think every team would have pounced on the opportunity to do a Kawhi Paul George package deal when they did it. In hindsight, it's easy to rip it, but they opened a window, weren't able to cash in. It's been a complete disaster, no question about it. But I think that that was the chance to compete for a championship, to open that window. I think every team would have pounced on that. It's just his age extraordinarily poorly. And it did lead to a championship in Oklahoma City.

[Tim Bontemps]

A couple of years ago, I wrote a piece about the Clippers, about how they just were sticking to the Paul George Kawhi duo and just kept investing in. And kept investing in it, and they obviously broke that apart. But I compared it to poker, playing poker. When you've put so much money into the pot, your pot committed, you've got so much in there. Even if you've got a bad hand, you have to keep putting into the pot. And I talked about how Steve Ballmer was a poker player, especially when he was in college, and he pulled me aside after the story and he goes, hey, I was more of a chess player than a poker player. But the Clippers I felt like have played, have acted pot committed from Kawhi. Outwardly, outwardly, the moves that they've made have been pot committed, where they've continued to throw in chips after chasing a pot they're out of their, out of control on. And because I saw those moves, it does make me wonder what they're willing to do off the court.

[Brian Windhorst]

Yeah. So, well, Ballmer can't be a poker player because there's no way that guy's got a poker face. Just no possible way.

[Tim Bontemps]

I said to him, I said, steve, I read a story about you playing poker in college. And he goes, yeah, that story's been out there. He goes, it's not, not really true. I should have, I should have disavowed.

[Brian Windhorst]

You know what you should have done? You should have asked his college roommate, Dennis Wong.

[Tim Bontemps]

I'll get right on the phone.

[Christian McCaffrey]

More Hoop Collective podcast after this.

[Tim Bontemps]

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The app online and in store.

[Tim Bontemps]

All right, bond temps. Couple other things from the bog Adam addressed the All Star changes. I'm really loathe to bring up the All Star changes, but it does touch a nerve. I've sort of let the ship sail on the All Star, but Adam talked about going across the world and people always bringing this up to him because it matters. If you could detail what he said about that.

[Christian McCaffrey]

I mean, I, I will, I will simply say this. I am on record as well with my opinions on the All Star Game and how much the league should spend energy caring about it. I will just read this sentence. I think in the case of the NBA, this is what I'm trying to convey, particularly to our younger players is that All Star is a big deal. I think this inherently has been the entire problem with the quote unquote All Star problem is that the NBA long ago should have just admitted it is what it is. We're going to have it be as fun of a weekend as we can. We're going to celebrate the game. Kids like it. We're going to lean into that whatever and instead it's turned into this annual let's dump on the players and dump on the product. And I'm not sitting here trying to say that like it's great that the game stinks. The game is stinks. It's not fun to watch, at least for me. But like this has become a masochistic ritual. Pound of flesh. The league has taken out of itself over and over and over again with Adam Silver every year standing at the podium multiple times saying, this is the thing that's going to fix the All Star Game. It was. We're going to do the, the Elam ending. We're going to do picking teams now. We're going to do. Now we're going to do this. It's like just, just admit defeat and move on.

[Brian Windhorst]

No, guys feelings are getting hurt. I mean the whole thing's been just.

[Christian McCaffrey]

Admit defeat and say, look, we're going to make this as fun as we can. Guys are at All Star for a million things. It's a celebration of the sport. We have a gazillion fans come to the fan fest every year, blah, blah, blah. And just say that and stop opening yourself up to getting murdered. Because every time you sit there and say we have the solution, what happens? We see the exact same product in some different form and then everybody goes, man, the All Star Game sucks. This is Miserable. Adam Silver's failing, and it's like, dude, you're talking about being pot committed. The NBA is beyond pot committed on.

[Tim Bontemps]

The All Star Game, and they just.

[Christian McCaffrey]

They can't let it go.

[Tim Bontemps]

They've already lost the hand.

[Christian McCaffrey]

Yeah.

[Tim Bontemps]

They're still throwing chips in the middle.

[Brian Windhorst]

They're trying to make it a new card game. It's poker now. It's blackjack and on, you know, hooray, whatever.

[Christian McCaffrey]

Yes.

[Brian Windhorst]

Here's.

[Christian McCaffrey]

That's my thing on it.

[Brian Windhorst]

What he should say is, look, if you don't want to watch the All Star game, don't. Don't watch it. Just scroll on Instagram. You'll see some highlights. It's a highlight game.

[Tim Bontemps]

We'll get to that in a second.

[Christian McCaffrey]

So anyway, I think that's some. That we've already talked about the US versus the world thing, whatever. Like that Jobs has reported it.

[Tim Bontemps]

That. I just want to say one thing.

[Christian McCaffrey]

Go for it.

[Tim Bontemps]

I got to stop this Ryder cup format.

[Christian McCaffrey]

Yeah.

[Tim Bontemps]

I didn't even as a golf fan.

[Brian Windhorst]

Oh, gracious sake.

[Tim Bontemps]

Who is. Who's one of my favorite events every two years is the Ryder Cup. It's coming up later this month.

[Christian McCaffrey]

About to be down the street in New York. Beth Page. Going to be. Going to be fun at.

[Tim Bontemps]

Adam said it yesterday. It is absolutely not Ryder cup format. Ryder cup format would be if they played two on two or one on one and added up a bunch of points.

[Brian Windhorst]

They should do one on one. That'd be more fun.

[Tim Bontemps]

I agree.

[Brian Windhorst]

Let's do the Ryder cup format then.

[Tim Bontemps]

My God, stop saying Ryder cup format with all due respect. It makes you look like a fool. I'm sorry.

[Christian McCaffrey]

Just stop being on what else we're talking about. NBA and All Star. This is. That's what's been going on with the NBA for years.

[Tim Bontemps]

Don't say that. Like, with all due respect, keep the Ryder cup away from the NBA All Star game. My God.

[Brian Windhorst]

Vaguely familiar with the Ryder Cup. I know it's a thing and I know it's like some kind of like us versus the world type of thing.

[Tim Bontemps]

It is Great Britain and, well, it's. It's first Europe, but okay, it used to be versus Great Britain in Ireland, and now it's all of Europe.

[Brian Windhorst]

All right, well, that's about all I know. I didn't. I know nothing about the format, but this one on one thing you bring up, I think is interesting. I think the NBA should do that.

[Tim Bontemps]

Listen, now, you'd have my attention. But don't say it's one. Not the Other.

[Christian McCaffrey]

Okay, yeah, maybe that'll be next year's change. So we'll go to one on one game. There will be a change next year. I'm sure.

[Tim Bontemps]

I agree with you. It'll be, we'll be right back here. We'll be. Tell us about that. The bog.

[Christian McCaffrey]

Yes.

[Tim Bontemps]

Okay.

[Brian Windhorst]

We'll just be concluding.

[Tim Bontemps]

I felt, oh, I don't think just.

[Christian McCaffrey]

Well, we should mention that from the Kawhi thing. I assume people know this, but the NBA, it was made pretty clear yesterday I would not expect a immediate resolution on this Kawhi Leonard thing. I, it was repeatedly said to me there's not going to be a, there's no timeline on it. But I don't expect this to be wrapped up in a week or two.

[Brian Windhorst]

Weeks, certainly not by the time that the All Star Game goes to Steve Ballmers into it dome for right now.

[Christian McCaffrey]

I mean, I don't know. I wouldn't say that. I have no idea how long it's going to take. Honestly, I'm not, I'm just either way, I just don't think it's going to be, I would guess it's not going to be before the season starts. I don't know if it's going to be when the season ends.

[Tim Bontemps]

Well, I'll tell you one thing. The investigation just got longer today.

[Brian Windhorst]

After it'll, it'll be months, not weeks.

[Christian McCaffrey]

Yes, that's, yes, that's more what I.

[Tim Bontemps]

Was trying to get to, more document review for first year associates at Wachtel. I was going to put it that way. All right.

[Christian McCaffrey]

Yes.

[Tim Bontemps]

I felt that Adam got high marks from me yesterday on him being candid throughout that session. And everything I felt from that standpoint was going fine until Bontemps.

[Brian Windhorst]

Oh boy.

[Christian McCaffrey]

Yes.

[Tim Bontemps]

He was asked about the rising cost of what it is to be an NBA fan because there is now a new partner with, well, Amazon and NBC, but with Peacock and Amazon prime that would require a separate subscription. Yes, he said what?

[Christian McCaffrey]

Well, he said a couple of things. He said, well, right. So I, I'm going to premise preface this and I, I'm not saying this as a defense.

[Brian Windhorst]

Yes, you are.

[Christian McCaffrey]

I was reminded by these comments of when Adam was talking about reporters in the locker room in that Adam at times in the past has gotten himself in hot water in these press conferences when he starts to riff on a subject. And if you go to this answer he gave to Tiny Ganguly from the Times, our friend of the pod's question about the rising cost of watching games as a fan, he Began his answer by talking about the fact that there's way more games on broadcast TV now than in the past, which there are now it's on games on NBC instead of Turner. Like that's a reasonable answer. You don't expect the commissioner to stand there and say it's a bad thing. We just got all this extra money. Right. He was going to have some answer, but then as he starts going through the answer, he starts sort of riffing on it. I'd say in addition to that, and this is an ongoing issue for the league, there's a huge amount of our content that people essentially consume for free. I think an ongoing issue for the league is an interesting clause in there that's been lost in this. This is very much a highlights based sport. So Instagram, TikTok, Twitter, you name it, any service, the New York Times for that matter. To the extent that your content is not behind a paid firewall, there's an enormous amount of content out there. YouTube another example. That is advertising based on our based isn't that is advertising based that consumers can consume.

[Brian Windhorst]

But it's just, it's a tone deaf and counterproductive statement.

[Christian McCaffrey]

Hey, correct.

[Brian Windhorst]

You don't want to pay for the games, Tough. Scroll in your phone and watch highlights. Who cares about the actual games? Come on, man. And like this, it isn't. It is a serious thing like to get kids to watch basketball. I've got Hoopers in the house and they don't watch full games that much. They're watching those other ways. But the games matter. Especially when there's this perception that nobody gives a crap about the regular season. Then you say, ah, just scroll through the highlights. Catches. Come playoff time when, you know, once you get through what does Amazon have games through the first round? I think you know, once you get through there, yes.

[Christian McCaffrey]

First or second round.

[Brian Windhorst]

I mean, come on, man. And, and honestly, as to me, as much as the Amazon thing now, you got to get this, this streaming service of Amazon Prime. You've got to get Peacock if you want all the games. Okay, that's fine. The fact that it's so hard for so many fans to watch their local.

[Tim Bontemps]

Team now we've hit on this bigger problem. Okay, hold up, hold up. I actually think that the league has a tremendous answer to this question. And Adam was prepared on it and kind of was halfway there, which is that here in 2025 and even he said, I never would have believed this decade ago there is more games on free TV than there's been in a generation. Not Only do you have game. You know that if you put up rabbit ears, you can get on abc. You've had those now, NBC opening night. You weren't able to watch opening night on broadcast television for decades. You can watch the Thunder on opening night on NBC on rabbit ears for free. And many NBA teams, at least a big chunk of their local games are now available on broadcast for free. There is more free basketball on now than there's been in a long time. And while Amazon prime is a new partner, more people have Amazon prime in this country than have cable or streaming packages. Amazon prime is a almost ubiquitous entity. I think it's over 100 million.

[Christian McCaffrey]

Yes.

[Tim Bontemps]

So you could, you know, Adam could have even leaned into saying the partner we chose was a very, very highly distributed partner. Yes. There are going to be NBA fans who are going to have to if they want all of the games subscribed to Amazon. And you are correct, McMahon. The streaming problem, the, you know, the high cost isn't for the national games.

[Brian Windhorst]

Yeah.

[Tim Bontemps]

It's for the local games. Because in the failure of these RSNs, 3,949 bucks a month to get in some of these cities to get local games, that's where the problem is.

[Brian Windhorst]

And honestly, it's drives me absolutely crazy that you can be a hardcore NBA fan willing to pay your, you know, however much it is. 250, whatever. How. However much the league passes. Now maybe I'm off on the number. Willing to pay three figures.

[Tim Bontemps]

Less than that.

[Brian Windhorst]

Okay, less than that. Willing to pay your three figures.

[Christian McCaffrey]

I think it's 100 bucks a year, I think.

[Brian Windhorst]

Well, okay. Willing to pay that money. Eager to pay that money. Because you love basketball, you love the NBA. You want to watch hoops every night. You can do all that and be blacked out from your local team, your favorite team still. Or if you live in some weird place like Omaha, you can be blacked out from your five favorite teams.

[Christian McCaffrey]

Yes, yes. The RSN situation across the league is a huge problem. It's something they have to resolve. And like I said, I was not saying the this is an ongoing issue for the league thing as even an excuse for Silver because he clearly stepped at it on this. But I think one of the more interesting things that was said yesterday that completely got glossed over and is related is Jake Fisher asked a question about the CBA from a couple years ago and its impact on the league and in particular on how it's made free agency boring. And I thought this answer was very interesting. And in particular, these few sentences about it. I wanted to get you guys thoughts on it. This is Silver talking about the boring free agency. I get it, particularly from a media standpoint that we'd like to create more excitement for all of you in the off season in terms of a hot free agent market. That's not my highest priority. Honestly. I've learned this the hard way. I think I've said before and this relates to all star as well. Earlier in my career I was at NBA Entertainment. I understand the entertainment side of this, but I've learned in some cases the hard way. The most important thing is the competition on the floor. I think now we've had seven different champions in seven years. We had a fantastic playoffs and finals last year. I get it that if you tighten the system for certain individual players that means we'll cut down on the number of opportunities that may have, we may have in other cities. That's what happens in a cap system. But I think on balance it's been very effective. I don't remember Adam ever saying something like that before. Essentially that we leaned a lot into off court stuff for a while and it wasn't a great idea and we have to get the focus back on games now obviously he goes back later and says the highlights thing as part of hey, it's a problem that there is some stuff out there for free and it is. We do have all this stuff on social media and league has cut down on some of these. I think it's not a related. It's a different issue. But the league has cut down on some of these accounts that use clips and highlights from the league using the API data it's called to like run clips of stuff on social media.

[Brian Windhorst]

Yeah, but the league also has its own very active and every team has their own.

[Christian McCaffrey]

I agree, I agree. I just thought that clause in the middle of that answer about boring free agency was a very interesting answer because I don't think we've ever really heard him talk like that before. For and as people who like to talk about the games and we talk about the games on this podcast, I, I would agree. I think that the most important thing is the games on the floor and for a long time that has not been the NBA's approach and I will be curious to see how that manifests itself moving forward. Because one thing that also was not talked about because it was sort of a PR thing is that the three television networks, including our employers, were meeting with the board of Governors at this meeting and what they were talking about was ways they can work together to promote the product on the floor and get more people watching the games, so. Well, by the way, I think all that is an interesting thing going forward.

[Tim Bontemps]

Agree. 100910 bucks for NBA League Pass. By the way, let's say starting this year, you have to buy from Amazon. I agree. Starting this year, cheaper than it used to be. Starting this year, you have to buy it from Amazon.

[Brian Windhorst]

Do you?

[Tim Bontemps]

Yeah, I mean, I've been elite. You know, I've been a. I'm have.

[Brian Windhorst]

To get like a tech review on this whole thing.

[Tim Bontemps]

I've been a. Yeah, you're gonna need more than. I've been a YouTube TV buyer for League Pass for years. But that is no longer. No longer available.

[Christian McCaffrey]

I don't know what that I. We should say because we both have YouTube TV and we've talked about this. I don't know if that will apply to if you have a cable package, but I know for at least YouTube TV users, you can't buy it on there.

[Brian Windhorst]

I'm gonna have to figure all this out. You're still gonna be able to get it on the NBA app though, right?

[Christian McCaffrey]

It's a good question. I don't know.

[Brian Windhorst]

I don't know. Because if not, I'm.

[Christian McCaffrey]

I would imagine you could get it on the NBA app, but I'm seriously, I'm gonna have. In fact, I'm gonna look right now. I'm gonna see if I can buy. We pass on here while we're sitting.

[Tim Bontemps]

Jackson says the first full game night is going to be a disaster. McMahon. No, I'll.

[Brian Windhorst]

I'll figure things out in advance, but it's going to.

[Christian McCaffrey]

There is no question about that when.

[Tim Bontemps]

It comes to games on television, McMahon is elite.

[Brian Windhorst]

Once I figure out how to get him.

[Tim Bontemps]

Yeah. But you know, I'll be honest, man. Who. Who.

[Christian McCaffrey]

I can. I can get League pass on the app. I just went and checked. I figured you could, but you can't.

[Tim Bontemps]

He. McMahon has three TVs in his laptop going regularly and he has great grand aspirations in his, you know, man cave. That is under consideration or design of. How many TVs do you want?

[Brian Windhorst]

The goal is at least five, but honestly, that's. It's not specific to the NBA. That's very. It's a very college football type of plan. If I'm being.

[Tim Bontemps]

Do you think that there's, like, right now. I don't. You think that there's not five college football games really worth watching right now in this part of the season? I. I'm not happy with the schedule of college football.

[Brian Windhorst]

You know, once it gets into it, it is. And, and I'll honest, I splurged. I got a little discount and splurged for the Sunday ticket again. For the first time in a while I've been a red zone and you know, broadcast only. So now I got, you know, I mean, it's a, it's a tough investment though, because as you know, we don't spend a lot of Sundays at home once the season.

[Tim Bontemps]

That's true. That's true. Enjoy your September. All right. Before we move on, actually, we're going to move on before we leave you. There was a contract, a significant contract in the NBA.

[Brian Windhorst]

We're not talking about the.

[Tim Bontemps]

I would say I'm sorry, McMahon. I want to issue a formal apology. McMahon made a request.

[Christian McCaffrey]

Well, wait. Well, there's before that. I think there's before we get to McMahon's topic from Bog, I do think there are two other things to briefly touch on. Oh. One is I asked Adam Silver about whether there's any limitations on Malik Beasley's availability to sign with a team and he completely sidestepped the question.

[Brian Windhorst]

Oh.

[Christian McCaffrey]

And said we have. We're doing an investigation.

[Tim Bontemps]

Well, hold on. I don't think he did size up the question because he said we're doing an investigation, which was reported by David Purdom from ESPN.

[Christian McCaffrey]

Right.

[Tim Bontemps]

And then he said, if I'm not mistaken, McMahon, I mean, Bontemps and I believe he's still under federal investigation as well. He said those words.

[Christian McCaffrey]

Well, I said, I asked him are there any limitations on his availability or his ability to sign with a team. And his answer was, quote, I'll only say there's an investigation ongoing. As I understand it, there's still a federal investigation that's ongoing. I believe Beasley as well.

[Tim Bontemps]

Ok.

[Christian McCaffrey]

Address what. Okay.

[Tim Bontemps]

Is that not different than what his agents have said?

[Brian Windhorst]

I believe it is his agents and.

[Tim Bontemps]

Said he's so he now he said not only is there our investigation, there's still an investigation. He's still. Okay, go ahead.

[Christian McCaffrey]

I all I was going to say was by completely sidestepping the question, he answered it, I would say in that I don't expect Malik Beasley to sign with team anytime soon while this is going on. That was what I was going to say. And the other thing is ask him about We've talked a lot about NBA Europe. It has been a hot topic of discussion. Adam talked about it a lot yesterday. He obviously had the press conference with Andreas Zaglis from fiba, the secretary general Back in the spring, not one word about domestic expansion yesterday during the presser. So I asked, it seems like there is a push within the league to focus on international and specifically European expansion over domestic expansion. Do you agree with that? Why is that the case? And I think for people that are interested in domestic expansion, particularly in the Pacific Northwest and probably in Vegas, he pretty strongly shot down the idea that there is a order on that and that both things are progressing in different tracks and that naturally actions over words. Well, hold on. And that naturally it would require more work to create a new league than to add teams to an existing one. I'm not, I'm only. Well, I agree with you on actions over words. I do think on the record stating they're on parallel tracks and are not related to one another. I do think if I'm a fan in Seattle or Vegas or a team or someone hoping for 32 NBA teams, I think that is a heartening message because I don't think it necessarily means that they're going to get all the way to the finish line in NBA Europe and then come around and do expansion. That's all. Because you could have ducked that question. You could have said, okay, that's fair.

[Tim Bontemps]

But I would also say that 18 months ago, a year 12, 18 months ago, we thought there was a good chance that there would be full into the expansion process and that they have done no material advancement.

[Christian McCaffrey]

Well, I wouldn't quite say that. I mean they, they, he, they started committee work on it and it came up this week. There was not new news on it, but it had. That has made sense.

[Tim Bontemps]

He did say that they talked about it in the bog.

[Christian McCaffrey]

Yes. So that's all. I just think for people who are interested in that, it's worth pointing that out. Now McMahon wants to talk about the other thing that came up.

[Brian Windhorst]

Maybe Kawhi will be playing for the Siberian team in that league.

[Christian McCaffrey]

More Hoop Collective podcast after this.

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[Tim Bontemps]

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[Brian Windhorst]

Now the heaves. Oh my gosh, they fixed this great problem. All these guys are going to figure out when the buzzer goes off and be able to get their shots off before from the back court now because if they miss it doesn't dent their field goal percentage anymore. Which, look, I'm glad that we're not going to see the bs. Oops, there's an extra, extra little split second let it fly type crap happened.

[Tim Bontemps]

With Luca at the Slovenia game yesterday. He hit a half court shot that was just after the buzzer.

[Brian Windhorst]

You know what's funny? Luca used to be an elite heave, let him fly kind of guy. 14 is rookie or nine the next year. He took two last year. He's been NBA ized, which is a bad thing. But he's not, he's not alone. He still ranks among the heave leaders in the league. But look, man, this is a. Okay, I'm glad the guys are going to take those shots finally. And in a way it's like, okay, you're doing something to make the games better and honestly, like add some integrity to the games. It's, it's shameful that it's necessary and I think it's a missed opportunity. I think they should have gotten a sponsor. Some company that like, you know, really wants to lean into the integrity.

[Tim Bontemps]

Like a green bank.

[Brian Windhorst]

Yeah. And, and, and, and guys who make them. There should have been like a hundred thousand dollar bonus.

[Christian McCaffrey]

Right.

[Brian Windhorst]

And guys who do the little BS thing, there's like a shame reel that goes out and put it on Instagram or hey, we can make it. I'm volunteering.

[Tim Bontemps]

That's where you get the highlights.

[Brian Windhorst]

Could have put on the hoop Collective, we could have like gone over these things. Put you on a shame reel if you do the BS pass it up thing. So I did. I made a. I want to give props to the guys who are on the good side of this. I wrote a whole story during the playoffs about Joker's heaves. The man took 30 of them this year, 22 during the regular season, eight more in the playoffs, made one of them. He made two in his career. Regular season, he's two of 50. Now he made two. But 22 is the most anybody's taken since basketball references, track, the stat, which is like 30 years. Mikal Bridges. Oh, by the way, Joker, if this rules in effect last year, Instead of shooting 41.7% from 3, it would have been 44.4. Mikal Bridges, O of 12 last year. He let him fly. Props to him and the ant man. He's a Competitor. O of 10. Halliburton. Second time in his career. He went 0 of 9. Steph has taken 110 heaves in his career. Next most I could find was Joker at 50. 110. 6 of 110. He's shaved a half percentage point off his career three point percentage.

[Christian McCaffrey]

That's crazy.

[Brian Windhorst]

But from, from all those heaves. But he's made six of them. And like I said, Luke was one of 45. Now those are the heaves. That's the heaves honor roll. This is the. The heaves dishonor roll. And there's some friends of the pod on here, boys. Some friends of the pod. Fellow podcaster, where I'm going to start. Jalen Brunson, you think he ever had the ball in the back court with a buzzer about to sound? Has he had that much in his career?

[Tim Bontemps]

The man, Brunson, he's taken one. Very crafty. He pretends like he's not always maneuvering, but he always is.

[Brian Windhorst]

He's taken one heaven. 487 career games. Wow. James Harden. He's taken one heave since he got traded to Brooklyn. None of his last two stops. I mean, Zach Levine. Hey, Zach Levine. Second three point percentage this year. No heaves for the fourth straight season. Katie.

[Christian McCaffrey]

It's gonna be interesting is to see how many of these are attempted now. Oh, yeah, I. I'm sure there'll be more to your point. What the difference is.

[Tim Bontemps]

It's gonna be a fight. They're gonna, they're gonna. They're. There's gonna be. Other guys are gonna be boxing each other out to get the inbound.

[Christian McCaffrey]

I know the honorable Second dishonor rolls continuing. Go for it.

[Brian Windhorst]

Well, KD is gonna have to fight Fred Van Vliet who's on the honorable honorable mention list because Van Vliet lets him fly. Zero regular season heaves since he won his second championship. None in his last year, Golden State. None in a Nets uniform. *. Took one in a playoff game. None with the Suns. Well, KD's being allergic to heaves might be contagious because Devin Booker, 16 in his career. None the last three seasons played the most minutes in the league without a single heave last year. That is.

[Christian McCaffrey]

You didn't. Who told you that stat? Is that a Stats Williams stat?

[Brian Windhorst]

Basketball Reference.com I got time on my hand. It's September.

[Christian McCaffrey]

That is a heck of a stat.

[Tim Bontemps]

Good job, McMahon.

[Christian McCaffrey]

Yeah, one other thing that was announced.

[Tim Bontemps]

From our boss is saying you should turn this into a story.

[Brian Windhorst]

Yeah, I did the Joe thing.

[Christian McCaffrey]

One other thing that was announced in that same announcement out of the competition committee, just again, more of a pace of play thing is that approximate foul replays and out of bounds replays will now be handled by the replay center rather than the officials at the games, which hopefully will cause them to be significantly faster. That is why you do that. So hopefully reviews will be shorter. That would be good because we have a lot of reviews.

[Brian Windhorst]

Still love a good review.

[Tim Bontemps]

All right.

[Christian McCaffrey]

I like a short review.

[Tim Bontemps]

Beautiful job, McMahon. Hey, Josh Giddy signed a four year, 100 million dollar contract extension. Actually not an extension, it's a new contract.

[Brian Windhorst]

Josh Kitty who made a heave to help beat the. Oh no, that wasn't technically he. Because it was a game winning buzzer beer.

[Tim Bontemps]

Go on. That was a big shot though.

[Brian Windhorst]

Yeah. I was in a LA sports bar when it was when he hit it. I cried that one.

[Tim Bontemps]

But that went over well. All right, so we've talked about the restricted free agency, the ice breaks and Giddey gets a deal. We talked about him earlier this year and he had pretty good stats after the All Star break last year.

[Brian Windhorst]

Very good stats.

[Tim Bontemps]

The thing I've always wondered is after they traded Alex Caruso for him, I was like, Chicago, do you think he's your franchise point guard? Because they didn't negotiate with him last fall when he extended. Then the season started and they were like keeping his minutes down. They only really started giving him real minutes when there were injuries elsewhere, including to Lonzo Ball. Then they traded Lonzo Ball. Not that Lonzo Ball is a pure point guard really anymore after his injuries, but. And so finally they make a Move and give him 100 million and say he's our franchise point guard. He's a limited player, we know because defensively he can be attacked and three point wise he is not consistent. But he puts up gigantic numbers. He is very young. He is like 23 years old and he's 6 foot 8 and it's hard to find players like that. And the Bulls paid him and he got the deal. And if you believe he's your franchise point guard, I know this is going to set Bontemps off because Bontemps has a certain feel about getting. If you believe he's your franchise point guard, if that's what your evaluation is, $25 million a year is a good number for your franchise point guard, assuming that's what you believe.

[Brian Windhorst]

Well, and Instead of saying 25 million, let's say 14% of the cap because that's Bobby Marks, that it's between. The deal will be between 13.8 and like 14.5. I think it was. So I thought this was a, a decent compromise. I, I don't think this is like some kind of awful deal for the Bulls. They're not paying him to be, you know, the man. They're paying him quality starter money.

[Christian McCaffrey]

Yeah, I mean, look, I, I think this deal is fine. I, I think if after the trade it was obvious the Bulls were likely to get something done with Josh Giddey. I don't think it's completely out of bounds. I think it's more than I would have paid. And I think if the Bulls had held the line, they probably could have got it done for less than $100 million. But I also think that, you know, this was a likely outcome. And I think if you're the warriors, who is the other team we're really looking at here in terms of the impact of this? I think the fact that there was no player option or any other bells and whistles in this deal means that nothing really is impacted to me on the Jonathan Kamenka front by this deal getting done. I think if this had come out with, you know, player option or trade kicker or some other. I guess you shouldn't say, I'm not sure as a trade kicker in it, but if there'd been some, if either this deal had been 35 a year or if there'd been some more inducement on the giddy side. Yeah, I think that could have potentially, you know, pushed things more in Jonathan Kaminga's favor or if the deal had come in at, you know, four for 72 or something. It Might have pushed a little bit more in Golden State's favor. To me, this doesn't change a lot in terms of the. The overall landscape of the other situation. And look like, is there a world where Josh Giddey becomes a. This is kind of a weird comp, but a DeMar DeRozan type player. And he's a guy who sort of. You play a certain way if he's on your team and he has some success. But there are flaws in his game and his overall talent that sort of limit what your team can be like. Yeah, I think if you're a Josh Giddy optimist, I think that's a world that could happen. But. And certainly he shot the ball a lot better last year. If that continues, that would open up his game a little bit. But I do have reservations about making him a cornerstone player of your team if you really are trying to be a top four team in the West. But as we've talked about before, for the Bulls, who are perpetually fighting for a spot in the play in Josh Giddey at $25 million a year, would seemingly fall right in line with that. And he'll probably be a productive player for them this year and he'll probably have him right back in the mix fighting for the 10 seed in the East.

[Brian Windhorst]

Well, the Bulls really could have screwed this up if they'd have made the trade. They didn't get great value because they didn't get any picks when Caruso was in high, high demand. And then if they would have immediately extended Giddy at the number he wanted. So if you'd have made the trade, not gotten enough in the trade and then overpaid, then you got a problem. At this point, as our buddy the machine, Kevin Pelton pointed out, they can have Gideon this deal White on the, on a cap hold.

[Tim Bontemps]

Kobe white. Yeah, yeah.

[Brian Windhorst]

Kobe want a cap hold. And obviously Bazelle is their lottery pick last year that they like and you know, be in the, in the market for potentially, you know, clearing out max cap space and you know, so again, it ain't franchise player money. It's like you'll be a piece of this moving forward money.

[Tim Bontemps]

Yeah. For $100 million, you can probably buy about a two bedroom condo in Melbourne. If you think I'm joking and you think your real estate prices are high, head on to Zillow and go take a look at Australia. Just fun fact to end the pod with. All right, thank you very much.

[Christian McCaffrey]

Look that up on the interwebs right now while you're Doing your Sydney is.

[Tim Bontemps]

Worse than Josh is from Melbourne. That's why I said Melbourne, Sydney. If you think Los Angeles or New York City or San Francisco, real estate prices are high. Now, I will say that the American dollar goes farther than Australian dollar.

[Brian Windhorst]

Why? Why?

[Christian McCaffrey]

As of a year ago. As of a year ago, a two bedroom condo cost $600,000 in Melbourne. So I. I think Josh could probably afford.

[Brian Windhorst]

What? Why are you looking up Melbourne real estate? You're going to cover the nbl. I know you're a free agent, Oligan.

[Christian McCaffrey]

Watch out, buddy. Somebody's coming for your job.

[Tim Bontemps]

Yeah, well, why do I think that you're not being genuine when you looked up that condo? But we'll.

[Christian McCaffrey]

I literally typed in average price of a two bedroom combo in Melbourne. Well, Wendy's not gonna make sure it's not Melbourne, Florida.

[Brian Windhorst]

Look up, look up the luxury condos.

[Tim Bontemps]

Yeah, it might be Melbourne.

[Christian McCaffrey]

Type in Melbourne, Australia just to make sure. Yeah, $600,000 as of late 2024.

[Brian Windhorst]

Oh, he's crazy.

[Tim Bontemps]

Australia's got some of the craziest real estate prices in the world. All right, forget about that. Thank you to Jackson for putting this all together. If you know, you know what happened on this podcast. Thank you to McMahon. Thank you to Bontemps. Thank you for watching and listening to the Hoop Collective. We'll talk to you next week.

[Brian Windhorst]

Adios, amigos.

[Christian McCaffrey]

Talk about stepping up.

[Tim Bontemps]

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