LeBron Turns Back Clock Again + Watch Out For Boston?

Summary

Brian Windhorst & The Hoop Collective

Episode: LeBron Turns Back Clock Again + Watch Out For Boston?

Date: December 8, 2025
Host: Brian Windhorst
Guests: Tim Bontemps, Ban McMahon

Episode Overview

This episode recaps a thrilling weekend in the NBA focusing on LeBron James’ vintage performance in a Lakers win over the Sixers, examines the Boston Celtics’ latest surge, and unpacks some of the NBA’s most intriguing storylines—from scheduling crunches, the evolving Memphis Grizzlies, to the Miami Heat’s sticky contractual situation with Terry Rozier. Expect sharp banter, stat-deep dives, and memorable moments throughout as Windhorst and his ESPN insider crew break down what’s happening around the league.

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Key Topics & Discussion Points

1. LeBron James Turns Back the Clock (00:51–15:23)

• Game Recap: Lakers defeat the Sixers 112-108 in a clutch performance, with LeBron delivering big shots down the stretch.
  • “LeBron...hit a fadeaway jumper that was really big in the last minute and a half. He was so excited about hitting that shot...he gave himself a double crown and then went into the silencer." – Brian Windhorst (03:36)
• LeBron’s Recent Struggles:
  • Referenced his tough game vs. Toronto (lowest regular season output in 1200+ games), rebounding to excel against Philly.
  • "First game he'd been under 10 points in like 17 years in the regular season." – Tim Bontemps (04:41)
• How Lakers Got LeBron Going:
  • Lakers posted LeBron on smaller defenders for easier looks.
  • Noted LeBron’s midrange-heavy shot selection compared to earlier, rim-attacking years.
• Changing Role/Athleticism:
  • LeBron’s restricted area shot rate has plummeted: a decade ago, 46% of shots; two years ago, 35%; last year, 24%; this season, under 20%. (09:45–10:34)
  • “It’s silly to judge LeBron based on the standard that he’s set over the previous two decades. He’s not going to be that player. The Lakers don’t really need him to be that player.” – Ban McMahon (09:09)
• Lakers’ Offensive Options:
  • Lakers’ clutch success fuelled by having three legitimate closing options: Luka, Reaves, LeBron.
  • Questions remain about sustainability due to middling defense/rankings.

Memorable Moment:

• LeBron’s mid-silencer celebration getting interrupted by a teammate. "Jackson Hayes came over and like pushed him in excitement...You are messing around with LeBron not being able to finish that celebration. He will get a talking to later." – Brian Windhorst (03:55)

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2. Boston Celtics' Resurgence & Jaylen Brown’s Leap (17:02–26:12)

• Recent Form: Celtics have won 8 of 10, boasting the NBA’s #1 offense in that span despite a bottom-third defense.
  • “They are now on a five-game win streak...number one in the league in offense.” – Brian Windhorst (17:33)
• Jaylen Brown’s Midrange Game:
  • “Jaylen Brown...is absolutely leaning on mid range jumpers. He’s tripled his percentage of shots from his career from 16 ft to the three-point line and it’s working.” – Brian Windhorst (18:07)
• Role Players Heating Up:
  • Derek White and Peyton Pritchard rediscover their shooting stroke (over 38% from three in last 15 games, 16 attempts/game).
  • “Those guys went from missing everything to making their normal amount of shots.” – Tim Bontemps (18:39)
• Joe Mazzulla’s Motivation: Celtics coach uses perceived slights as fuel.
• Standing in the East:
  • The East has “come back to Boston”—top contenders struggling/injured.
  • Outlook turns on Jason Tatum possibly returning for the playoffs: "If they have Jason Tatum and Jalen Brown and Derrick White and Peyton Pritchard going into the playoffs, like, nobody is going to want to play them in a playoff series." – Tim Bontemps (21:37)

Fun Quote:

• “I'm, I'm smart enough to know not to play Joan [Mazzulla] one on one...I know a lot better than to be trying to do any of that [MMA] stuff.” – Tim Bontemps (19:40, joking about Celtics' coach)

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3. NBA Scheduling Squeeze and Player Fatigue (26:54–29:59)

• Cup-Induced Cramps: The NBA Cup’s introduction has forced teams into grueling stretches—multiple teams played 5 games in 7 nights.
  • “All these teams across the league are all playing 5 in 6, you know, 6 in 9, 5 in 7.” – Tim Bontemps (27:45)
  • “And half the league has a calf strain.” – Ban McMahon (29:21)
• League Must Adjust: General consensus is the league should reconsider Cup scheduling to avoid exhausted rosters and surges in injuries.

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4. Golden State, Bulls Struggles, and Pat Spencer Folklore (31:37–37:44)

• Pat Spencer’s Rise:
  • After a lacrosse career, he’s 29 and making NBA waves; shouted “I’m that MFer!” after a big shot—a viral, Steve Kerr-endorsed folklore moment. (33:09)
• The Dismal Bulls:
  • Detailed their recent collapse (lost 13 of 16), slipping out of the playoff race.
  • “During this 3 and 13 stretch they are 27th in offense and 26th in defense.” – Brian Windhorst (37:29)
  • “All roads lead to 39 wins, don’t worry about it.” – Brian Windhorst (36:47, poking fun at Chicago’s mediocrity)
• Debate on Predicting Team Records: Banter over Windhorst’s “guaranteed” Bulls 39-win prophecy.

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5. Memphis Grizzlies: Defense & Depth Emerging (38:31–45:59)

• Winning Formula: Grizzlies have won 7 of 9, largely thanks to depth, the “Isalo system” (line change subs, fresh legs) and improved team chemistry.
  • “Their defense in this stretch...they've been a top six.” – Brian Windhorst (39:39)
• Zach Edey’s Huge Impact:
  • On/Off stats: Grizzlies are +19 per 100 poss. with him, -9.6 without—a staggering 28-point swing. “It's not a coincidence...their season has turned around when he started playing games.” – Tim Bontemps (43:00)
• Looking Forward: Ja Morant’s impending return and a pivot toward young talent.
  • “Edie looks like a player. Cedric Coward looks like a player. They've loaded up on future picks...I'm curious to see how things play out here.” – Ban McMahon (42:27)

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6. Terry Rozier’s Legal Saga & Miami Heat Fallout (45:59–66:18)

• The Dilemma: Rozier’s under federal indictment for illegal gambling—Heat weren’t made aware of NBA’s prior investigation prior to trading for him, potentially impacting their future picks and trade assets.
  • “As part of trades, you're supposed to...there's a disclosure process. So where the Heat should the Heat have been told about this investigation...what can the Heat do about it?” – Tim Bontemps (48:11)
• Trade/Grievance Possibilities:
  • Theoretically, Heat could file a grievance for lack of disclosure, but insiders don’t expect it to succeed.
  • Rozier’s $26.6M expiring contract remains tradeable, likely functioning as a “dead” contract in a deal due to litigation/ineligibility.
• Pick Constraints:
  • Because so many picks are tied up, any change to Rozier-related picks would drastically change Miami’s ability to make seismic trades.
• NBA Precedent & Disclosure Debate:
  • The NBA typically stays hands-off but has intervened in unusual trade disputes in the past (e.g., Martell Webster, Gary Payton Jr.).
• Lighthearted Banter: In-depth detour on Heat owner Mickey Arison’s yacht lifestyle, symbolic CBA protest votes, and Pat Riley’s longevity vs. Carnival cruise ships (66:18–67:18).

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7. Lighthearted Close: "Where in the World is Windy?" (67:36–70:54)

• Mystery Trip: Windhorst teases an upcoming, long-dreamed “basketball bucket list” trip, giving only cryptic hints and inviting listener guesses.
• Special Audio Drop: Legendary Knicks PA Mike Walczewski delivers a comedic “Where in the World is Windy?” segment (68:00–68:34).
• Listener Engagement: Listeners can call in guesses about Windhorst’s travel plans.

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Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments

| Timestamp | Speaker | Quote | |:---|:---|:---| | 03:36 | Brian Windhorst | “LeBron...gave himself a double crown and then went into the silencer...You are messing around with LeBron not being able to finish that celebration. He will get a talking to later.” | | 09:09 | Ban McMahon | “It’s silly to judge LeBron based on the standard that he’s set over the previous two decades. He’s not going to be that player. The Lakers don’t really need him to be that player.” | | 18:39 | Tim Bontemps | “Those guys [White & Pritchard] went from missing everything to making their normal amount of shots.” | | 21:37 | Tim Bontemps | “If they have Jason Tatum and Jalen Brown and Derrick White and Peyton Pritchard going into the playoffs, like, nobody is going to want to play them in a playoff series.” | | 29:21 | Ban McMahon | “And half the league has a calf strain.” | | 33:09 | Tim Bontemps | “Pat Spencer hit a three on the wing and turned around and shouted very loudly, ‘I’m that bleepity bleep’. And everybody on the team thought it was quite funny.” | | 36:47 | Brian Windhorst | “All roads lead to 39 wins, don’t worry about it.” (re: the Bulls) | | 43:00 | Tim Bontemps | “It's not a coincidence...their season has turned around when [Zach Edey] started playing games and he has been good.” | | 48:11 | Tim Bontemps | “There's a disclosure process in trades. So essentially, where the Heat should the Heat have been told about this investigation in the disclosure process for the trade, and because they were not, what can the Heat do about it?” | | 67:18 | Brian Windhorst | “That ship has did its whole thing and has been scrapped and Riley is still coaching.” (on Riley outlasting Carnival ship) | | 68:00 | Podcast Announcer | “It's now time for another installment of where in the World is Windy?” (Special Segment – lighthearted end) |

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Timestamps for Key Segments

• LeBron’s Clutch Performance & Lakers Analysis: 01:03–15:23
• Celtics’ Surge & Jaylen Brown’s Leap: 17:02–26:12
• NBA Scheduling/Rest Issues: 26:54–29:59
• Around the League (Warriors, Bulls, etc.): 31:37–37:44
• Grizzlies’ Evolution & Edey’s Impact: 38:31–45:59
• Terry Rozier, Trade Controversy, and Pick Fallout: 45:59–66:18
• End Segment: Mickey Arison, Fun Factoids & ‘Where’s Windy?’: 66:18–70:54

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Tone and Style

Informal, playful, stats-rich, and ultra-insider. Constant riffing and in-jokes blend with sharp analysis and breaking news. Occasional asides—about celebrations, travel, or pizza—keep things light and engaging.

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Who Should Listen?

NBA fans eager for inside scoops, detailed analysis, and plenty of personality—whether you’re monitoring LeBron’s legacy, curious about Celtics’ playoff prospects, or geeking out over CBA loopholes.

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Note: Ads and non-content sections omitted. The above represents the major basketball/league conversations from this episode.

Transcript

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[Brian Windhorst]

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[Tim Bontemps]

I can't do this don't give up thing all by myself. This whole fight this journey thing is not a solo venture. This is something that requires support.

[Brian Windhorst]

Hello and welcome to the HOPP Collective podcast. We talk about the NBA, which we're doing on Sunday evening. Joining us from Xfinity's arena. I don't know what it's called. We're always doing podcasts from there, and I don't know what it's called.

[Tim Bontemps]

Xfinity Mobile arena, it's now called. And everybody calls it that, and everybody calls it that, believe it or not.

[Brian Windhorst]

Okay, good. That's Tim Bontemps, who was there at the Lakers 112108 victory over the 76ers on Sunday night. Mr. Bontemps. And LeBron James turning back the clock to when he was 39.

[Tim Bontemps]

Yes. Hello, everybody.

[Brian Windhorst]

Joining us from Dallas, Texas, fresh off the road from west coast Oklahoma City and looking forward to a wonderful week of NBA cup coverage, it's Ban McMahon.

[Ban McMahon]

Howdy, partners. Can't wait to get back to OKC. And you know how much I love Vegas. Oh, six nights in Vegas. So excited about that.

[Brian Windhorst]

Well, you'll be there with Bon Temps.

[Ban McMahon]

Oh, even more exciting.

[Tim Bontemps]

Big, big assumptions for McMahon. He's already locked in a sun's loss to the Thunder this week. He's already locked in a second Thunder win in the cup semifinal. He's got it all locked in. McMahon all the way through.

[Ban McMahon]

I just assume the Thunder are going to win every game and I've been wrong.

[Tim Bontemps]

It's a safe bet.

[Ban McMahon]

I've been wrong once this year.

[Tim Bontemps]

It's a safe bet.

[Brian Windhorst]

Well, I will not be joining you fellows in Vegas this week. Lazy pending, no travel snafus. I am doing something this upcoming weekend that has been on my basketball bucket list for many years. As long as I can remember. I'm not.

[Tim Bontemps]

I too. I'm very jealous.

[Brian Windhorst]

I'm not going to say what it is. We will. I want to make sure that it goes off. Um, it is overseas, so. And I'm All I'm going to say is I'm scheduled to spend some time with Joakim Noah there. It's my only hint. It's not in France. It's not in France.

[Ban McMahon]

It's not a very revealing hint.

[Tim Bontemps]

It is not a revealing hint, but it will be a very cool thing. There'll be a lot of NBA people there.

[Brian Windhorst]

Yes. So with that said, Lakers went to eight and oh, seven or eight, zero now, bon temps. In clutch games within five points, within five minutes, this was right there. Again, the Sixers have been playing really well. They had been five and two, I believe, in the games where Paul George played. Paul George did play. They've been playing relatively well regardless of Embiid being in and out of the lineup and they were in good position here. But LeBron, I think he made five out of six shots down the stretch of the game. At one point he hit a fadeaway jumper that was really big in the last minute and a half. And he was so excited about hitting that shot because frankly he's not been playing that well so far this season that he went to his to a double trademark move as he was running down the court. He went with the crown, he gave himself a double crown and then went into the silencer, which has been around for decades now. And he was mid silencer. Given the, you know, the silencer. He hadn't even got to the part where he pounds his chest yet. And I think it was Jackson Hayes came over and like pushed him in excitement and I was like, jackson? I think it was Jackson Hayes. You are messing around with LeBron not being able to finish that celebration. Buddy, like that is. He will get a talking to later. But anyway, bon temps. You were there a vintage LeBron performance tonight.

[Tim Bontemps]

Yeah, I mean, it was really interesting to see how this game went because if you watch the game on Thursday in Toronto, the Raptors, although they lost the game, are a big physical team across the board. And they have a lot, you know, Scott, Scotty Barnes and all these other long rangy athletes, Brandon Ingram even, right. And LeBron struggled with that length on Thursday. And I thought it was noteworthy that right off the struggle to the point.

[Brian Windhorst]

Where he had his lowest scoring game in like 1200 games.

[Tim Bontemps]

First game he'd been under 10 points in like 17 in the regular season. In a regular season. Good context because he's had two single.

[Brian Windhorst]

Digit games in the playoffs and those. McMahon, McMahon. I know you were one of them.

[Ban McMahon]

Because I was definitely one of them and I'd forgotten about the other one. I looked it up, but forgotten about the other one against Indiana. But yeah, obviously the one that was a game.

[Brian Windhorst]

I'm sorry, quick aside, Game 5 of the 2011 Finals where it was 2:2 and LeBron had eight points, probably in my opinion the worst performance of his career. And the Mavericks won that game. Could have gone either way. Mavericks won that game and then won game six. And then there was a game in Indiana during one of the Heat Indiana series where everything just went wrong and he fouled out. That's all you need to know is he fouled out of a playoff game. He also had I think seven points in that game. That was in like 2013 or something. All right, sorry, Bun taps.

[Ban McMahon]

I'm sorry. But there is one streak that remains intact. LeBron. I don't know the exact number, but it is a ton of games in a row that he scored in double figures with our buddy Mac 10 in the building.

[Brian Windhorst]

That's true.

[Tim Bontemps]

And in the United States.

[Brian Windhorst]

Oh, that's in the lower 48. It is still intact. And also, I'll tell you what, two streaks that are, you know that. So that I think his two most incredible streaks were the 1200, whatever games of double digit scoring.

[Ban McMahon]

He was 1297.

[Brian Windhorst]

What's that?

[Ban McMahon]

I believe he was 1297.

[Brian Windhorst]

Okay. And 21 consecutive seasons on the all NBA team. That is going to go away not because of his performance, but he's not going to get to 65 game. So sorry, bon temps. I'm stomping all over.

[Tim Bontemps]

Oh, no, it's all good. It might also go away because of his performance too.

[Brian Windhorst]

We'll see.

[Tim Bontemps]

He's not going to be eligible either way.

[Brian Windhorst]

Yeah. Even if he averages triple double the rest of the way, I don't think he's going to.

[Tim Bontemps]

But regardless, I thought it was noteworthy and I asked Nick Nurse about it off the. After the game, the Lakers, very deliberately, I thought, got LeBron going by posting up on the smaller Sixers defenders and like got him some shots in the paint and some, some easy turnaround jumpers, like practice shots for him. And you could see him get some confidence and get going. And like, look, he hit a bunch of big time jumpers down the stretch of this game. He still wasn't getting in the lane. He still wasn't doing a lot of moving. The Sixers didn't do a great job of forcing him off the line. Like they, they let LeBron get in a rhythm and LeBron hit, I think four shots in a row essentially from the exact same spot on the court on the left wing when he was just catching and firing. But I, I did think it was interesting to see how the Lakers went out of their way to try to get him in a rhythm after how rough that game was on Thursday offensively. And he still only shot a couple of free throws. Like some of the burst stuff I'll be curious to see. Now, he did have a big dunk in the second quarter. He had a couple drives in transition where he showed a lot more burst than he had last week. So, you know, we'll see if he gets his legs under him and how things look going forward. But he's still an incredibly smart player. Nick Nurse talked after the game about how they have probably two of the three best passers in the league and Luka and LeBron, and they're both gigantic. And so that physicality they can play with really can make it hard on teams to try to guard them. But it'll be interesting to see what happens when LeBron plays against more teams with size. Like, for example, let's say Victor Wembanyama's back and they're playing the spurs in the Cup. I don't know where Victor's status is.

[Brian Windhorst]

Right now, but he practiced on Sunday. I don't know how extensive the practice was. Was.

[Tim Bontemps]

So they've got till Wednesday to get him right. But if they've got Luke Cornett and Victor Wembanyama and Harrison Barnes and Keldon Johnson and Carter Bryant, all these.

[Brian Windhorst]

Stefan Castle, I believe is also close to coming back. They might have both of them by Wednesday.

[Tim Bontemps]

Yeah. So I'll just be interested. I think that'll be something worth watching. If there is opponents where he can take advantage of his size and sort of get in the post and make hay, I think he's going to look good.

But I think it remains to be seen about some of the burst stuff. Like I was looking at his shot chart and like today he hit a lot of jumpers and through these first several games he's shooting way less at the rim than he ever has. It's a lot of mid range shots, a lot of floater shots, a lot more threes, you know, because he just, he doesn't have the. At least right now doesn't have the same ability to get in the paint. But on this night where the Sixers couldn't hit the broadside of a barn, Joel Abid missed a million shots, Tyrese Maxey missed a million shots. You know, LeBron hit all the shots down the stretch and that was enough to win These guys the game, right?

[Ban McMahon]

And they need LeBron to be a really good third option, which tonight Reed stunk. LeBron picked up the slack. But it's silly to judge LeBron based on the standard that he's set over the previous two decades. Like, he's not going to be that player. Honestly, the Lakers don't really need him to be that player. I would say, you know, they, they need defensive upgrades more than anything else at this point. But if, if LeBron is a good third option, then the Lakers are one of the league's more potent offensive teams as long as Luke and Reeves stay healthy.

[Brian Windhorst]

Yeah. So LeBron is shooting career low percentage of his shots at the rim on temps. It's been a sort of a downhill dive. I mean, there, there were years where LeBron took as much as 46% of his shots in the restricted area. Okay. I mean, that's been a decade ago, but that was his high watermark. He almost half of his shots in the restricted area. Number of years where he took over 40% of his shots in the restricted area. Two years ago, 35% of his shots in the restricted Area last year, 24% so far this year. And this was going into tonight, it might even be lower because you were saying he shot all jumps.

[Tim Bontemps]

I think he had four of his 17 shots in there, so it's probably slightly higher. But he was just under 19% before tonight, so he's probably still under 20.

[Brian Windhorst]

Right. So 35, 24. Under 20%. Small sample size, only played seven games.

[Ban McMahon]

You know what, though? You know who else is shooting? I'm looking at the basketball reference numbers here. 0 to 3ft. I assume that's where you're looking.

[Brian Windhorst]

Yes, basketball reference.

[Ban McMahon]

Luke is also shooting a career low from that range, and it's 0 point or 0.085, which is almost half of his career norm. And I think one thing we have to consider is what's the spacing like for the Lakers? You know, Now, Ron being 40 has a lot to do with his as well. But like, Luka is as felt as he's been since at least early in his career, if not ever. I think part of this is the Lakers aren't a team that has great spacing in terms of shooting.

[Brian Windhorst]

Well, they are, you know, look, they are 17 and 6. We've talked on the pod this fall about how the Lakers are outperforming what their stats say. Maybe they should be. They are 10 and three on the road, and they are eight. No. In these clutch games, these are Streaks that you know, are tough to maintain, but part of the reason why they're able to do that is because, And I know LeBron's only been there for seven games, but in this case, in this game, it's because they have multiple options to go to at the end of these post games. So you know, Reaves has won them some games this year with his shot making down the stretch. He was terrible tonight. His worst game of the season, three of 16. I was actually listening to the game for a while on the Lakers radio broadcast and.

They were talking about how they felt that Reaves legs were a little dead. His third game in four nights, which Luka missed a couple of games on this trip because congratulations to him, his second child was born, his second daughter and LeBron sat out the game in Boston. So Reaves was the guy who was sort of carrying the load a lot and they felt his legs were a little dead tonight. Luka 9 of 24, he did get to the free throw line 14 times. They were double teaming him late in this game. You know, a couple, I think a couple of times the ball went to LeBron coming off of a blitz of Luka.

[Tim Bontemps]

No, nurse said it, Nurse said that was the game plan. They decided they were going to try to get it out of his hands and they had a, you know, they got a, made a couple of plays out of it and the Lakers made a couple more and that was the difference.

[Brian Windhorst]

Right. So they did a great job on Reeves and Reeves is tired. They did a good, pretty good job on Luka. 31 points, but 24 shots and LeBron cooks them like this is the, you know, this is the thing that the Lakers, Lakers, you know, when LeBron is healthy, having LeBron is your third option. And like, let's be honest, like, okay, he wasn't tonight, but LeBron's been their third option for the most part this year. And when you've got the all time leading score as your third option, you're going to be have some, you're going to be potent and you're going to have some options in close games.

[Tim Bontemps]

But it's also worth saying The Sixers shot 35% and shot 15 or 16, 16 more shots than the, than the Lakers and lost. Right. Like they also just couldn't hit the broadside of a barn. Joel Embiid in particular, he was I believe 4 for 18, 4 for 21, I should say in the game.

He.

[Brian Windhorst]

Was 2 of 17 outside the restricted area. The worst of his NBA career.

[Tim Bontemps]

Yeah, so I mean he just couldn't hit a shot, you know. But hey, look, like I said, it's. Luca wasn't great, Reeves wasn't great, Tyrese Maxey wasn't great, Joel Embiid couldn't hit a shot. But at the end of the day, LeBron hit all these shots and they won. And yeah, like you said, man, they're, they're, they're underlying metrics aren't great. They're still tied for 19th and defense, they're still in the middle of the pack and net rating. They've won all these clutch games. It's not really sustainable. You know, the, the defense I think is going to be something that's going to be a problem when they have to play high level teams. Like if they play the Thunder, like we saw in the game they played the Thunder, it didn't go great. But when you have Luca and Austin Reeves and LeBron and you've got three guys you could throw the ball to in the closing minutes of the game, like I, they're not going to win every single clutch game, but like those guys are going to make a lot of plays and they're going to win more games than they are not. So that's going to allow you to make up for having some deficiencies defensively and not having as much shooting, et cetera. And it's probably going to cause them to win a lot of games in the regular season. But, you know, that's where we'll see if they can make some moves during the season to add some depth and we'll, you know, we'll see if LeBron can start to play better. Because while I agree with you, McMahon, if he's a good third option, that's fine. Especially with the way Austin Reeves has developed and taken yet another step. This year had been awesome. They're going to need more, they're going to need the athletic LeBron if they want to have a chance in the playoffs. If it's this version of LeBron, you know, they're not beating any of the high level teams. I don't think if he's not able to move much at all. But it's also still training camp for him. Arguably so true. Where it lands.

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[Brian Windhorst]

All right, the team that beat the Lakers, the Lakers, had lost. The team that had beat them on Friday was the Boston Celtics. And ladies and gentlemen, the Celtics won on Sunday in the afternoon game in Toronto which is historically a trap game. The Celtics won this game and they are now on a five game win streak. They have won eight out of ten games in those ten games. They are number one in the league in offense.

[Tim Bontemps]

Oh.

[Brian Windhorst]

And number 24 in defense. I don't want to, you know, I don't want to say it's not sustainable. But look, they've got to do what they got to do to win games. They are now in third place in the Eastern Conference. Here they are 24 games into the season. They are holding to the three seed. Jaylen Brown is putting together a all NBA campaign. He had 30 more points today. He is absolutely leaning on mid range jumpers. He is taking 16 two point shots a game which leads the league in two point shots. He's tripled his percentage of shots from his career from 16ft to the three point line. Basically long twos and it's working on temps now. They've got some other stuff going for them primarily.

Derek White has come alive. He was struggling mightily early in the season. Peyton Pritchard has come alive. He was struggling mightily earlier in the season.

[Tim Bontemps]

Those guys went from shooting under 30% from three on a lot of threes a game to over the last 15 games, White shooting 38% and Pritchard shooting 40% on a combined 16 attempts a game. That's, that's mainly what's changed. Like those guys went from missing everything to making their normal amount of shots. And look, the Celtics are Joe Missoula. I went and wrote a story B and Jamal wrote a story about the Pacers, the Celtics, and you know, kind of the, the concept of a gap year. Now the Pacers had a billion injuries at the start of the year. Their team fell off a cliff. Now they're starting to win games. Now that they have somebody besides Pascal Siakam healthy, it was basically him and nobody first month of the season. But when I, when I went and I started talking to Joe Missoula about the idea of the story, I barely got it out of my mouth. And he wanted to go. He went and grabbed one of his assistant coaches like, hey, is. Is Bon Temps the one whose quote we have on the wall because he wanted to go show me this quote about it being a catch.

[Brian Windhorst]

I thought he wanted to play you in one on one.

[Tim Bontemps]

Well, no, I'm, I'm smart enough to know not to play Joan one on one.

[Ban McMahon]

And he probably wants to go MMA with Bond temps and I'd like. I will pay to see that.

[Tim Bontemps]

I ain't doing that either.

[Brian Windhorst]

You'd lock the cage, you'd make sure it went out.

[Tim Bontemps]

I know, I know a lot better than to be trying to do any of that stuff. But the point is he. I was not the one who said it, but he was. Clearly Joe Mazzulla doesn't need a lot to get hit, to have a chip on his shoulder and to be motivated. And he came into the season and the Celtics came into the season motivated to show that this was not going to be throwaway season. And look, because of the fact that the Eastern Conference has come back to them, because it has. Because Cavs corner is in a not great place. We'll see what happened. Franz Wagner, that was a very unfortunate looking injury today. Hopefully he's all right.

[Brian Windhorst]

Yeah. Franz Wagner. The first game of the day was in New York. The Knicks, by the way, have won seven of eight. We're not going to talk about them right now, but they had a nice win over the Magic today. But Franz Wagner, would you say it was non contact Bon Temps? I couldn't really.

[Tim Bontemps]

Yeah, it was a really awkward fall. His leg got bent in an awkward direction. It just, it didn't look good. The quotes didn't sound good after the game.

[Brian Windhorst]

Everybody's worried about it. He's having an mri.

[Tim Bontemps]

Hopefully. Hopefully he's okay, but it certainly was concerning. But the point is the. The east has come back to Boston. They're finding a way to win these games. They're playing sometimes, like we talked about, the Celtics playing or the Sixers playing small, not really having any bigs. The Celtics are sometimes playing with essentially Jaylen Brown or Jordan Walsh, who's like a 6, 8 string bean at center, and they're flying around creating turnovers, making plays. And they've now put themselves in a position where if Jason Tatum comes back sometime late in the season and can get anywhere near Jason Tatum level, like, if they have Jason Tatum and Jalen Brown and Derrick White and Peyton Pritchard going into the playoffs, like, nobody is going to want to play them in a playoff series.

[Ban McMahon]

I think that's a big if with Tatum, I think.

[Tim Bontemps]

I agree, but it's, it's at least, it's at least something to think about now where that is not anything I would have remotely entertained two months ago.

[Brian Windhorst]

It's.

[Ban McMahon]

It's within the realm of possibility. You know, I think anything they get from Tatum this year has to be considered a massive bonus. The fact that there's not a clear cut. I, you know, I'm not say that the Pistons have established themselves as the, as the favorite in the east, but they're not a proven, they're not a proven team in terms of deep playoff runs. So the east is wide open in that sense. So all that's nice. But to me.

What'S really encouraging about what the Celtics are doing now is how it can benefit them next year, the year after that. You talk about, you know, some of the guys that are kind of emerging as, you know, potentially solid rotation players for a long time to come. You know, Namaya Shakada is a, you know, he's a solid big man and he.

[Brian Windhorst]

Even though their defense bonteps is smiling because of how you pronounced it, is that it's not.

[Tim Bontemps]

That's not your fault.

[Brian Windhorst]

Neemi. They call him Neemi.

[Tim Bontemps]

They call him Neemy.

[Ban McMahon]

All right. Keda. Jordan Walsh, DFW guy, by the way. Hey, I'm just here to tell you, I think Cade Cunningham called Dallas Fort Worth, mecca of hoops. If you put together teams of NBA players based on the location, the Mavericks would be like the Thunder right now. You know, the DFW team, DFW's got.

[Tim Bontemps]

A chance to be number one on the list. They're. There's a lot of. There's a lot of Cyrus, Maxi, Kate.

[Brian Windhorst]

Coming in, starting to point.

[Ban McMahon]

Maxi or Kate starting together.

[Brian Windhorst]

I know Walsh in the starting lineup because The Celtics are 10 and 2 with Jordan Walsh in the starting lineup.

[Tim Bontemps]

Jordan Walsh has been. Jordan Walsh has been really good for them.

[Brian Windhorst]

Obviously it's coincided with the other guys getting hot. By the way, he's shooting 60% this year.

[Tim Bontemps]

Yeah, he went like, listen, he went.

[Brian Windhorst]

Like 16 to 15 over like three games.

[Tim Bontemps]

He's a second round pick out of Xavier from a couple years.

[Brian Windhorst]

I thought he was a first round pick.

[Tim Bontemps]

No second round pick. And he didn't, he didn't play much the first couple years in the league. He was in the G league a lot. But he, he plays insanely hard all the time. And Arkansas, I thought he went to Xavier. Sorry. He was a second round pick or like 37, 38th pick. But he.

[Brian Windhorst]

38. That's right.

[Tim Bontemps]

Yeah, but he's, he plays really hard. And again, when you've got Pritchard and White and Brown shooting most of the shots, you need guys around them to fill in the gaps and he's been a perfect fit that way. And like I said, Joe Missoula's found different ways to make this work. And look over the past two weeks, two weeks from today forward, they've won games against Orlando, Detroit, Cleveland, New York, the Lakers, and now the Raptors. Like that's. And they lost the second night of a back to back by four to Minnesota and almost came back and won that game. That's the one loss they've had.

[Ban McMahon]

So like hey, 10 and two. They've been playing since inserting Jordan Walsh into the start of the lineup. The best record behind OKC in that span, says the group. Yeah, it's good job.

[Tim Bontemps]

It's all because of Jordan Walsh. But they have been playing well and, and, and look like again, I'm not sitting here saying they're definitely going to win the east.

[Brian Windhorst]

But you're not.

[Tim Bontemps]

I'm not. But the, the Jason Tatum question becomes more interesting by the day. If they continue to win games and look like they could be a team that could be a factor in the playoffs without them. And I think that, like I said, I think that's more a symptom of the weakness of the top of the East. But these guys have proven playoff experience. Basically none of these other teams do. And some of the guys, well, I mean Derek White and Peyton Pritchard and Jalen Brown were all core members of the championship winning team. I agree with that.

[Ban McMahon]

And then they've Got guys like Keita and Jordan Walsh.

[Tim Bontemps]

I understand, but I'm, but I'm talking about the. Sure, but I'm talking about the star players, like they're leading guys have all won a title. None of the other guys in the east have won anything. So you know, like it's, there's, they're going to walk in any series thinking, hey, if we're ready to go, we can go head to head with anybody and feel good about it. And you know, like I said, I thought they were going to be fighting to be out of the play in. So if they're sitting up in the middle of the east or higher and we get towards the end of the year and Tatum gets closer to playing like it's just going to be very interesting to see if he can come back and what he can look like. Because if he can come back and be even 75% of Jason Tatum, which is probably asking a lot, but still that suddenly becomes awfully interesting.

[Brian Windhorst]

By the way, they won in Toronto today. The Raptors have, you know, they had that nine game win streak. They have cooled off big time. They've now lost five out of six. They had this five game home stand. Like it was kind of like, man, they had won nine in a row and they were going to play like this stretch at home. I was like, man, they could like really take off here. They've lost. I think they're 1 and 4, 1 and 3 on the home stand. And then Tuesday is the cup quarterfinal game. You know, they were undefeated in the, in the group. They won home court and they play the Knicks. So test and see how those guys are doing. They did just play five games in seven nights. Having said that, they lost at home to the Hornets by 25.

[Ban McMahon]

So that's hard to do.

[Tim Bontemps]

I was going to say, I don't know what conversations you guys have had with people around the league. There's a lot of people pretty frustrated with the schedule and it's. The league is going to get mad at me saying this. The schedule is jammed up because of the NBA Cup.

[Brian Windhorst]

That's right. Half the league or three quarters of the league now gets four days off. And like it's.

[Tim Bontemps]

All of these teams have been playing 5 and 7. Like the, the Atlanta Hawks for example. The Atlanta Hawks just got done playing six games in nine days. Friday night they're up 25 on the Nuggets. They completely ran out of gas. Lost. Saturday night they're on a back to back. They play the Wizards. They're up again by like 20. They ran out of gas, almost lost, they had to come back and win in the fourth quarter. And like all these teams across the league are all playing 5 and 6, you know, 6 and 9, 5 and 7.

[Brian Windhorst]

Yes. The Cavs are in a 7 and 10 in a minor tailspin right now. And they had a absolutely ridiculously dud home loss to like, the remains of the warriors on Saturday night.

[Tim Bontemps]

Pat Spencer, show baby. Who's that?

[Brian Windhorst]

It was their fifth game in seven nights, too. And while, you know, it's still a wretched loss, like, it's hard to like, really get on. Like, on Friday they beat the spurs, who'd been seven and two without Victor, and on Saturday they're playing their fifth and seven and they just don't have.

[Tim Bontemps]

It's not surprising they ran out of gas in the second half when they've been playing every other night or sometimes back to backs piled up and like, this is happening to teams all over the place. And it's all because of the Cup. And I do think the league has to look at the schedule of the cup and potentially move the medal round or the knockout round back farther in the season to lessen some of this jamming up of the schedule. Because for all the, all this talk they've made about reducing back to backs and putting more rest in the schedule, like you said, it, it defies logic how it makes sense for the league to have 23 quarters of the teams now get like multiple giant chunks of like four or five days off after having to play all these games piled up on each other before the last.

[Brian Windhorst]

The last two days. As I'm reading the quotes of all these coaches, it was like straight down the line, every coach saying, boy, we could really use this four days off. Boy, we can't wait to get this five days off. Boy, this four days off is going to be really big for us. Like, every team is exhausted.

[Tim Bontemps]

Well.

[Ban McMahon]

And half the league has a calf strain.

[Tim Bontemps]

Well, which also goes back to the same thing, which again, the league's going to get mad and say, hey, how can you say this is causing injuries? But, like, look, I'm sorry if you're having all these extra games, like your guys are going to miss more games. It's just the way it is. Like, I just think they have to, I think they have to try to figure out a way to create a longer schedule for this thing so it's not so congested because it, I just don't see how the current setup makes a lot of sense where you have these giant gaps for all these teams over the next two weeks and it's like a a mini break in the middle of the season. I it just doesn't seem proof More.

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Good morning Crust.

[Tim Bontemps]

It's a great day to be a bread brother.

[Commercial Voice]

Ugh.

[Ban McMahon]

Mornings are not my jam or jelly.

[Tim Bontemps]

Oh come on, stop loafing around.

[Ban McMahon]

I just woke up feeling hollow inside.

[Tim Bontemps]

Just grab one of the new morning uncrustable sandwiches like Bridge Bright Eyed Berry or up an apple filled with 12 grams of protein and tons of deliciousness crust.

[Brian Windhorst]

What are you eating?

[Ban McMahon]

It's just granola. Not even yogurt.

[Tim Bontemps]

No crust, no fuss. Uncrust your mornings.

[Brian Windhorst]

By the way, you mentioned Pat Spencer. Not to be confused with Cam Spencer, his brother who's on the Grizzlies. Pat who wears I learned he wears number 61 as an ode to the fact that he was undrafted. As in their 60 picks and he was Mr. 61. Kind of like Clay. Remember Clay? Clay? When did he. He WORE the number 76. What was. What did they do?

[Ban McMahon]

He had 77 when they named the NBA's 75th anniversary team. He wasn't on there. They put jersey number 76 in his.

[Brian Windhorst]

No, there were actually 76 guys on the team. So he was like number 77. There was whatever it was.

[Tim Bontemps]

So it was one pass, whatever the number was.

[Brian Windhorst]

So anyway, Pat Spencer wears number 61. Well, by the way, the reason he wasn't undrafted is because he only played one year of college.

[Tim Bontemps]

Do you guys know? Do you Guys, here's a trivia question for you guys. You may not know this. You guys know how old Pat Spencer is?

[Brian Windhorst]

Well, he played four years.

[Tim Bontemps]

Do you know how old he is?

[Brian Windhorst]

Well, hold on.

[Tim Bontemps]

26.

[Brian Windhorst]

Hold on. He played four years of college lacrosse.

[Ban McMahon]

Yeah. He's one of the best lacrosse players ever.

[Tim Bontemps]

One of the best lacrosse players ever. And then he went. And then he played a year at Northwestern, and then he went in the NBA. Do you know?

[Brian Windhorst]

No, no, hold on. He didn't go in the NBA. He went and played in Europe. So I would say he's like 26.

[Tim Bontemps]

He's 29 years old, in his second season.

[Brian Windhorst]

Okay. So he's had this little bit of a run here for the warriors, including. He had a great game in Cleveland. He actually had a good game today. The warriors won in Chicago. Without Steph. Without Draymond. Jimmy Butler did play today, but. So what did he do? He said he made a big basket. He said, I'm that MFer. Except he didn't say MFer.

[Tim Bontemps]

So on Thursday here in Philadelphia, before the Cavs corner setback against Pat Spencer and half the warriors, the warriors had no staff, no Jimmy, and Draymond Green left in the second quarter with a foot injury. They're down like 25 points of the Sixers. Basically everybody here just turned off and thought the game was over, including the Sixers. And then at the start of the fourth quarter, Steve Kerr junks up the game. He starts running full court presses and flying guys around. All of a sudden, the score's down to like seven. And with about five or four or five minutes to go, Pat Spencer hit a three on the wing and turned around and shouted very loudly, I'm that bleepity bleep. And everybody on the team thought it was quite funny. And it's now become a thing. And Steve Kerr said it in a press conference, and, you know, it's. It's now taken on a life of its own. And he's replaced John at the commigon in the rotation, essentially. So, you know, that's where. That's where things are at.

[Brian Windhorst]

Yeah. It reminded me of when kerr, during the 2019 playoffs, when Durant tweaked his calf and they were in trouble against the Rockets and they made the comeback, and he comes up to the post game podium, you know, 2019, you know, they still, you know, didn't exactly allow cussing.

[Tim Bontemps]

Yeah.

[Brian Windhorst]

On the. I mean, now I guess they're trying to. I guess they find ant every now and then, but. And I remember Kerr Was like, our guys are effing Giants. Yeah, but she was quoting Jurgen Klopp.

[Tim Bontemps]

But anyway, can we, can we, can we touch on the Bulls, by the way, really quick?

[Brian Windhorst]

Well, I will say this real quick. The Bulls, the Warriors. I'm not. I actually was texting with slater. The last two nights they've held the Cavs to 94 points and then tonight held the Bulls to 91. And I'm like, how did this happen? And Slater was kind of like, I don't know. But the Bulls lost tonight. Go ahead.

[Tim Bontemps]

I would just like to read through the Bulls recent schedule. So the high point of the Bulls season was on November 19th when they're in Portland and Nick Vucevich hit game, win and three. They beat the Blazers to go to 8 and 6. Won by a point. Two days later, they play the Miami Heat. They lost 143 to 107. Bit of a wake up call. The next game they play the Wizards, as McMahon likes to call them the Lizards. And won by a point. Since then at New Orleans, lost by 13. That's hard.

[Brian Windhorst]

21.

[Tim Bontemps]

Yes, that's one of the three wins for the worst team in the league. At Charlotte, lost by seven. At Indiana, Pascal Siakam. It's a game winner. Another team that I believe has six or seven wins, gap.

[Brian Windhorst]

Got their first road win. Six, seven, by the way. Six, seven.

[Tim Bontemps]

Yeah. Six, seven. There it is.

[Brian Windhorst]

They, they just got their first road win. The Pacers.

[Tim Bontemps]

Yeah. By the way, we'll get to that in a second. The next game at Orlando. Solid game. Lost by five. Home for Brooklyn, 10 point loss.

[Brian Windhorst]

Not good.

[Tim Bontemps]

Home, home for Indiana.

[Brian Windhorst]

By the way, Michael Porter Jr. Is on a heater. He scored 33 in a row.

[Tim Bontemps]

Yeah, he's been, he's been playing great. Home for home for Indiana, 15 point loss. I believe that was the first, first road win for the Pacers this season. And then today, playing against the warriors, who have been very up and down, they lost at home by 30. No Draymond, no staff, no Draymond, 32 point loss. So it's not going great for the Bulls. And by the way, just because I happen to have their schedule up here, so they have Charlotte in New Orleans. Their next two games. After that they got a home and home with Cavs corner a baseball series in Atlanta, Philly, Milwaukee, Minnesota. Then they end the season at home against New Orleans. And the year, end the year.

[Brian Windhorst]

Maybe in the end of the season.

[Tim Bontemps]

The season might be over too. But the end, the end the calendar year against New Orleans, that Could be. Could be a rough month in Chicago, man.

[Brian Windhorst]

I keep telling Bontemps and I'll say this to the Bulls fans who may be worried, all roads lead to 39 wins. Don't worry about it.

[Ban McMahon]

I don't know that 39 is going to happen. I don't know 39 is happening.

[Tim Bontemps]

This is. They're.

[Ban McMahon]

They've already slipped out of the plane as. As we speak. What were they, six and one at.

[Tim Bontemps]

One point.

They were. They were six and one. Yes.

[Ban McMahon]

So they are three and 13 since then. That's not great with and bomb temps just. I mean 3 and 13 with some losses to some bad teams.

[Tim Bontemps]

I mean this was the stretch of the schedule in all seriousness where the 39 and 43 was supposed to take sh. Like you're supposed to win a couple games against Indiana and beat New Orleans and beat Charlotte and beat Brooklyn and beat all these teams and they didn't win any of those games. Yeah.

[Ban McMahon]

So 30.

[Brian Windhorst]

Well, they are. They are missing some guys but that's hardly a. During this 3 and 13 stretch they are 27, 27th in offense and 26th in defense.

[Tim Bontemps]

Yeah, that's not great.

[Ban McMahon]

Yeah, that's a tough combination.

[Tim Bontemps]

That's a good way to go.

[Ban McMahon]

3 and 13. So 39 seems pretty matter of fact. Would you like to over under a little over under bet another bet.

[Tim Bontemps]

He's not going to bet. He's not going to do it.

[Brian Windhorst]

I don't believe in wager.

[Tim Bontemps]

I don't. Yeah, exactly.

[Ban McMahon]

Put some chicken.

[Tim Bontemps]

He made us one stand of the year McMahon back in October when he declared the Clippers were going to be great.

[Brian Windhorst]

Oh boy. Do not check on the Clippers. It is not the one time window.

[Tim Bontemps]

Decides to make a prediction. What happens? Chaos.

[Ban McMahon]

When it comes to. When it comes to Clippers predictions, we'll give them some leeway.

[Brian Windhorst]

Yeah, well.

It'S been a long road trip for the Clippers. I think they came home. They lost in Minnesota on Saturday. I think they came home. It was not. It was not great.

Okay, so one more thing I want to talk one more team that I think deserves some attention that won on Sunday, the Memphis Grizzlies. Don't look now. The grizzlies won by 25 or so at home against the Blazers. They've won seven out of nine. McMahon.

Somewhat tied to the return of Zach Edie, although he's not playing that many minutes, but he's been really good for them. Tuomas Asalo is doing his thing. He is playing 10 players per quarter. He's Doing his line change, substitutions. Their defense in this stretch, in this nine game stretch, they've been a top six. I think they're sixth in defense in this stretch. They've been sort of, you know, it's very small sample size, but they've been outplaying some teams in these fourth quarters. And when you, when you listen to the players talk about it, they say that they believe that they're wearing these teams down. The solo strategy.

Obviously, John Moran has not been out there.

[Ban McMahon]

Have no fear. Ja's, he's close to returning from that catch.

[Brian Windhorst]

And I was looking at.

Some of their players, they were talking about how they've had some really good team. The chemistry is very, very good. They've got good camaraderie. I think Jock Landale credited Kentavius, Caldwell Pope for doing some stuff off the court and he feels like they've. They're in a good place chemistry wise. Cedric Coward, their rookie, has had some impressive games. He had a funny line. They beat the Clippers. I think it was on Friday or Saturday. It was Friday. And he went up to Kawhi and to meet him, introduce himself to him and he said that he had to go ask him during the game to if he could get his phone number or something because he wants to work out with him in the off season. And Kawhi doesn't have social media, know anybody who knows how to get a hold of him. So he's like, I just had to go ask him. But he played a good game. Coward played a good game on Friday. So listen, McMahon, I don't know. I mean, they're still under 500. They're still 11 and 13. But it should be noted that they've pivoted here. And I think a lot of it's been around both their defense and frankly, the Asalo system.

[Ban McMahon]

Yeah. And, you know, I'm curious to see. Once Ja gets, I assume there'll be some sort of minutes restriction which will make the transition easier for him. But once he kind of gets back where there wouldn't be a minutes restriction, I'm curious to see how this all works. He clearly was not a fan of the substitution pattern. Frankly, I don't believe Jaren Jackson Jr. Was either. So.

[Brian Windhorst]

Jaren Jackson had six points today, but they won. So.

[Ban McMahon]

And that's what's interesting. So Ja hasn't been part of this turnaround at all. Jaren has been, you know, he's, he's been all right. He's been okay.

[Brian Windhorst]

Yeah. He's had some big games but like.

[Ban McMahon]

When you're talking about how are they winning? It's, it's the depth, it's that system and it's their young guys. They're in these last nine games. Jalen Wells is leading them in scoring. Cam Spencer, Pat's brother, has been pretty Damn awesome.

[Brian Windhorst]

He's 36, I think. No, I'm just kidding.

[Tim Bontemps]

He's.

[Ban McMahon]

But you know, you look at these last nine games, in 25 minutes he's averaging over 14 points shooting, 54 from the floor, 49 from 3 point range. Edie in 26 minutes is averaging 14 and 12 and he's a plus 12. Coward, coward shooting his. He's in a little shooting funk here but like awesome energy guy. I'm curious if the Grizzlies are kind of in a pivot completely away from.

You know, that we find in the west core, you know and we'll see, we'll. We'll see how things play out. But Edie looks like a player. Cedric Coward looks like a player. They've loaded up on future picks. You know, they've obviously committed to Isolo and given him a lot of freedom to run the system. I'm curious to see how things play out here.

[Tim Bontemps]

Well, here's, here's the stat sums up Memphis entire season. Zach Eady obviously missed the first chunk of the year. In the 847 minutes he's been off the court, they got 109 and a half offensive rating in the 262 minutes he's played 26 minutes a game. Like you said, it's five points higher, 114.4 in those 847 minutes he hasn't played this year. The Memphis grizzlies defense has 119.1 defensive rating in the 262 minutes. Zach, he displayed it's 95, it's 24 points lower. They are plus 19 per 100 possessions when Zach Eaty plays, they're minus 9.6 when he doesn't. That's a 28 point swing. Now I don't think Zach Eady's become better than Nicole Jokic but like it's not a coincidence to me that their season has turned around when he started playing games and he has been good and we talked about this a couple weeks ago with as bad as the bottom of the west is like as long as those young guys are healthy, I think sort of regardless of whatever's going on with Ja or Jaren, I think Memphis is going to be in the play in mix and they're going to be like again, like to make a joke on the fine in the west thing, like, they're going to be fine in terms of being competitive on an basis because they've got an identity. And Edie's quickly, I think, establishing himself as a guy who's one of the better interior defenders in the league. And those numbers back that up. Like when he's on the court, they're awesome on defense and like 26 minutes a game is a real amount. It's not like he's playing 10, 11 minutes out there.

[Ban McMahon]

And that's really interesting because one of the big questions for him going into the draft when he was a pretty polarizing prospect, obviously he had an awesome college career, but a lot of people, scouts, executives, didn't quite know what to make of him in terms of being an NBA prospect.

[Brian Windhorst]

Yeah, there was a lot of people who didn't think he was a first round pick.

[Tim Bontemps]

It was a extraordinarily bold pick of Zach Kliman to take him at nine.

[Ban McMahon]

And that was a pick where people.

[Brian Windhorst]

Said season they tanked to make sure they kept that pick. Right.

[Tim Bontemps]

Yeah.

[Ban McMahon]

But one of the big questions was how is he going to hold up on the defensive end? You know, was he going to be a bullseye that, you know, people just put into pick and roll after pick and roll after pick and roll. And, you know, clearly the Grizzlies have, have managed to put him in a position to play to his strengths. Now I will say as, as much as I've said, hey, Jaren's been okay. It definitely helps to have Jaren Jackson Jr. Out there.

[Tim Bontemps]

Sure.

[Ban McMahon]

With him on the defensive end. And honestly, I also heard a lot of questions early this season, you know, before he got out there, like how's he going to fit into this coach's system that's really based on pace, playing fast, you know, an up tempo style for a. I don't know what Edie's weighing now, but he's 7429ish, 300, whatever it is, and clearly so far so good. It has not been an issue.

[Brian Windhorst]

Yeah. So we'll keep an eye on the Grizzlies with Ja set to return pretty soon. Before we go Monday in Brooklyn, Terry Rozier is scheduled to make a court appearance and I assume enter a plea and get a bail situation set up. Bontemps. And you have a story that is publishing Monday morning with Bobby Marks. It's an FAQ on the Terra Rozier situation. Can you explain why it's a Terry Rozier situation. It's not just so much that he's charged with a federal crime, but that there is something else that is going on.

[Tim Bontemps]

Yeah. So obviously the most important thing for Terry Rozier on Monday is that he's going to be arraigned in this, this illegal sports betting case and what she has been alleged to be involved in. And we'll see what happens with the legal case over time. But from an NBA perspective, which is what Bobby and I wrote this story about, there's two facets of his situation that are interesting. One is to go back to when he was traded from the Charlotte Hornets to the Miami heat now almost two years ago in January of 2024 in a deal for Kyle Lowry, who is here in Philadelphia tonight where the Heat gave up a first round pick, won this lottery protected in 2027 and becomes unprotected in 2028. The heat, when they made that trade, it was never disclosed to them that Terry Rozier was had been under any sort of NBA investigation for, you know, the suspicious bets that were placed on the game in March of the prior year in the game in New Orleans.

[Brian Windhorst]

Yeah. To be really clear, just to give the timeline of this.

The sportsbooks flagged unusual betting activities with Terry Rozier near the end of the 202223 season.

He didn't play the last nine games of the year. As the Hornets shut him down. The NBA did their investigation behind the scenes. It was not public. He started the 2023 and to be.

[Tim Bontemps]

Clear, just to cut in for one thing, they did not find any violations of NBA rules. So therefore he continued to play.

[Brian Windhorst]

Right. I'm not sure exactly when that investigation ran. I was before the trade. Right. But Roger was playing.

[Tim Bontemps]

We reported that in this story.

[Brian Windhorst]

Right. Rozier was playing. And then we get near the trade deadline In January of 24, the Hornets, which by the way was. It was a trade that I didn't like. It was this sort of an unheat trade from the day it happened.

[Tim Bontemps]

But anyway, yeah, I mean, so the trade did a couple of things right. The Heat were clearly ready to move on from Kyle Lowry for a variety of reasons. So they did. It also saved the Heat money. And Terry, Roger was in the middle of a very good season. He was scoring like 23 a game. And so they were hoping to get some scoring punch and they gave up a future first round pick to do it because it saves him some future money. Now it cost him money in the out years because Terry had more years left on his deal. But he was a younger player, and they hoped he be part of their team for a while. So the Heat, we're not told about this investigation. Then a year later, the Wall Street Journal reports that Terror is under investigation as part of this thing. That's when the Heat find out that this had happened in the first place. So the one part of this is as part of trades, you're supposed to like, there's a disclosure process in trades. So essentially, where the Heat should the Heat have been told about this investigation in the disclosure process for the trade, and because they were not, what can the Heat do about it? That's one part of the story. And then the other part of the story is Terry Roger has a $26.6 million expiring contract, which, with the Heat in the top four in the Eastern Conference, is a piece that they could potentially use to go improve their current roster. And as we just talked about, the east is wide open. Perhaps they can make a move to go be a contending team and even better than where they are now. And are they able to trade Terra Rogier in light of everything that's going on? Those are the two main topics in the story.

[Brian Windhorst]

And the answers are.

[Tim Bontemps]

Well, the answers are the Heat have not yet decided what they're going to do in terms of whether they will file a grievance.

About this trade and try to, you know, whether they get their pick back or get something else.

People we talk to in the league, I don't think that he would win such a grievance. However, they could file one and try to.

Try to get some compensation back, because you can read the story. There's a lot of language in the cba, in the league's operation manual about what you're supposed to do in terms of disclosing things and trades.

And as far as the Terry Rogier piece in the trade part goes, there is not a clear decision on whether Rozier will be able to be traded or not. However, I would say the fact that Terry Rogier is on the roster is a sign that the Heat believed that if it came down to it, they'd be able to put him in a trade. And last year, or I think it was last year or two years ago, Kevin Porter Jr. Was arrested in a different case, totally separate thing, and a month later, he was able to be traded to the Thunder who waved him, which is what would happen here. So while there hasn't been a definitive answer, I think it's safe to say that the likely answer is Terror Regier would be able to be traded. And again, given where the Heat are sitting and given that there could be big name players available between now and the trade deadline, having a $26 million expiring contract to put into trades is a relevant thing to pay attention.

[Brian Windhorst]

A key sentence in this story, the Hornets, when asked by ESPN whether they were aware of the league's investigation in de Rougier before the trade, declined to comment.

[Tim Bontemps]

So I would say the Heat did not know. And the Hornets declined to say whether they knew. Well, that says a lot.

[Brian Windhorst]

The league office, which conducted the trade call and verified the trade, we can say new.

[Tim Bontemps]

Well, the league office conducted the investigation. So safe to say that that's right.

[Ban McMahon]

Also, when Terry Azir sat out the rest of that season, he was listed with a foot injury that I'm pretty sure we know now wasn't really a foot injury.

[Brian Windhorst]

Well, no, I. Hold on, McMahon.

[Tim Bontemps]

Yeah, don't do that.

[Brian Windhorst]

I thought the same thing and I was corrected.

[Ban McMahon]

Oh, so they were in Dallas the next night and it was a foot injury then?

[Brian Windhorst]

Yes, it was a foot injury and according to the NBA, it was a foot injury.

Having said that, the league was aware the day that the bets happened of the unusual situation.

[Tim Bontemps]

But, and the argument from the Heat perspective is the Heat, if there's three parties on this call, in the Heat's opinion, there was only one party that was not aware of this and they should have been made aware of it and then they could have decided what they were going to do. I think is the, the simplest way to set up the situation now.

[Brian Windhorst]

Right. And look, we don't know, maybe the Heat would have gone through with the trade because again, the NBA did not find, they could not substantiate wrongdoing.

[Tim Bontemps]

Right.

[Brian Windhorst]

Not using the word cleared and the league has not used the word cleared.

[Tim Bontemps]

But, but the league, but the league couldn't. The league said he, they didn't find a violation and he was able to keep playing.

[Brian Windhorst]

Right.

[Tim Bontemps]

And he played and he was able to keep playing for the better part of two years.

[Brian Windhorst]

Peter agreed about four different ways. I think Barry Jackson from Miami Herald actually counted like nine different ways. They're aggrieved, but you know, one of which is they, they didn't know it was going on. And there's a good chance that both the Hornets and obviously the NBA knew, but whatever.

[Tim Bontemps]

Well, it's not, and to be clear, it's not on the NBA. The NBA's. The NBA is not on that call to disclose things. The NBA is essentially there to just hold the call and the two teams go back and forth. And that's true.

[Brian Windhorst]

However, the NBA in the past has stepped in, in situations like this. Maybe not exactly like this.

[Ban McMahon]

Sure.

[Brian Windhorst]

So they're unaware of this, number one. Number two, they don't have Rozier to play for them now. He was playing horribly. His career has essentially gone into the gutter on the court. Forget about the fact that he's now under federal indictment, but he's not available to play for them. They don't necessarily know what to do with his contract. Right. And then they're out this first round pick, which is affecting what they can do in trades because.

[Tim Bontemps]

Well, and just that is an important thing to spell out for people the reason that matters. Let's say the Heat wanna make a trade for a big star player who becomes available. You can name the star who.

[Brian Windhorst]

Let's say he's a Greek player.

[Tim Bontemps]

Do you have any player? Any player? Yeah, any player. Let's say they want to make a big trade for a star player. Guy comes available, wants to play for the Heat. The Heat right now can trade two picks. The 2030 first round pick and their 2032 first round pick and that's it. Because their pick is owed in 27, lottery protected. And if it doesn't, if they don't make the playoffs, it's then unprotected in 28. So that means they can't trade this year's pick, the 27 pick, the 28 pick or the 29 pick.

[Brian Windhorst]

By NBA standards, it's known as their pick being encumbered.

[Tim Bontemps]

That's right. So if that pick, let's say the Heat, went to the NBA and said this was not fair, we should have known about this. And the NBA says, you know what, you're right, we're going to give you back this pick or give you another pick. Then all of a sudden the Heat could trade four picks and they could trade three swaps and they could do their whole draft and they could go do whatever they wanted with their draft picks. This is why Barry Jackson has been very exercised about this and why the Heat, why the Heat are annoyed. And we will see if the Heat actually do file a grievance. There have been se many other times where teams have been upset about trades and conduct of teams in trades. Two recent examples are the Golden State warriors were not happy. Both are similar situations. The Golden State warriors were not happy when the Portland Trailblazers backed out of a trade for Gary Payton after the trade deadline because they didn't like the physical. And I think they were to get a few second round picks in the trade. And so that trade didn't happen. And obviously the most famous example in recent times, which is relevant because the team was here tonight is after the Luca trade, the Lakers tried to trade a bunch of stuff for Mark Williams to Charlotte, ironically. And Charlotte was very upset that the Lakers did that trade and then didn't like the physical and backed out later. And in both instances there was a lot of discussion about are these teams going to file a grievance about it. And they ultimately did not because partially at the end of the day, although the 30 teams are all competing against each other, it is all part of one bigger entity. And typically you're not necessarily trying to get into legal spats with other teams. Now the Knicks have gotten into a bunch of legal spats with other teams, but outside of that, teams have generally tried to avoid doing this kind of stuff. And while McMahon is familiar with a certain guy in Mark Cuban who has had a very long history of stirring up Hornets nest with the league and causing issues, the Heat and Mickey Arison, their owner have very rarely ever said anything publicly about anything. 1 the 1 one of the very rare times they did, Brian happened to be on hand for it, which I'll let you tell the story because it's better if you tell it.

[Brian Windhorst]

So let me just say that I really, really like Mickey Arison. I like the I like if I was a billionaire I would live like Mickey Harrison lives.

[Ban McMahon]

Well, there's a lot.

[Brian Windhorst]

There's quite a few billionaires that I know that that quite a few billionaires he knows. I know quite a few billionaires who are somewhat unhappy. I know a few billionaires who are happy by the way but couple in particular. Well, there's one, there's one billionaire in particular that bontemps and I know that I would live his life but Mickey, you know, Mickey pretty much lives most of the year on a yacht.

[Tim Bontemps]

He's the CEO of Carnival Cruise Lines.

[Brian Windhorst]

Not anymore. He hasn't been the CEO for years. Whatever.

[Tim Bontemps]

He's the chairman.

[Brian Windhorst]

He.

[Tim Bontemps]

Right. He owns Carnival Cruise Lines just for people that don't know.

[Brian Windhorst]

And Mickey will correct you on the difference between a boat and a ship.

[Ban McMahon]

Just oh well, important things.

[Tim Bontemps]

Anyway, he's Windows kind of guy.

[Brian Windhorst]

I really respect the way Mickey Harrison does business. But anyway, in 2012 at the end of the NBA lockout, Mickey called a small press conference. I'm not sure Mickey has given many interviews since. He certainly hasn't given anything like this a press conference that I'm aware of. He just went to the hall of Fame a few months ago. Congratulations to him. But he basically called the press conference to announce that the Heat were one of, I think, five teams that voted against. That voted against the CBA because of the luxury tax penalties that were put in there, basically to prevent the Heat from being able to add to their team.

[Tim Bontemps]

It was a combination of that. And also, he was very aggrieved that Donald Sterling, the owner of the LA Clippers, would be getting revenue sharing money while being in Los Angeles. And he, Mickey Arison, would be paying revenue sharing money while being in a much, much, much smaller market. I will say to you, not a small market.

[Brian Windhorst]

The one crazy thing about that meeting which I. Or that, you know, it was only four or five of us there that I remember, is that in the middle of the. Of the little session that he had with us, it's only 15 minutes long, Mickey got a call from LeBron.

[Ban McMahon]

And did he take it?

[Brian Windhorst]

He took it. And he's like, I'm meeting with the beat writers right now. And I always, like, wondered, like, was that, like, planned? Was there some sort of, like. Like, were they trying to, like, show us that, like, LeBron was like. I. I just. It was such a strange thing that, like, while we were sitting there, that LeBron calls him and happened in front of us, and we're.

[Ban McMahon]

I was like, what are you trying.

[Brian Windhorst]

Like, some misdirection to, like, you know, the Heat don't play games like this. The Heat are pretty straightforward. So it was out of their character. But I. He. But he takes this call, and. And then I asked. Later on, I think I asked Mickey, and he goes, no, no, no. He just. He said. He actually called me. Supposed to call. He was trying to call somebody else with me. Misdial. I was like, all right, whatever. I will say bontemps that back in, like, 2010 or 11, and it's not super duper comparable, but the Blazers and the Timberwolves got into a dispute about a trade and information involving Martel Webster.

[Tim Bontemps]

Oh, yeah, right, right.

[Brian Windhorst]

Yes. So the. The Wolves traded for Martell Webster from the Blazers, and I almost feel like there was another trade that had happened. And maybe some of the Minnesota media, or remember this, with Jason Quick, or some of the media remember this, but there had been another interaction with them that had sort of caused some friction.

[Tim Bontemps]

I think they might have signed Batum to an offer sheet. The Wolves, I think.

[Brian Windhorst]

Okay, maybe that's true.

[Tim Bontemps]

Yeah.

[Brian Windhorst]

I don't remember. That makes sense. Well, but no, I think Batum's offer sheet was when he was in Charlotte. All right. I don't know.

[Tim Bontemps]

Fun math.

[Brian Windhorst]

Anyway, so Martin Webster shows up in, in Minnesota and he's got a back issue. A back issue that pretty much derailed his career, in fact. And the Wolves made an issue of it and it never was public. And then like two years later it came out. I think actually our former colleague Henry Abbott broke the story that.

Behind closed doors, I think the NBA recognized that there had been a violation and there was a secret monetary settlement of a million, 1.5 million that the Blazers paid to the Wolves for it.

[Tim Bontemps]

They did sign Batoon to an offer sheet then too, in the middle of that.

[Brian Windhorst]

Maybe that was it too. I don't think the Heat want 1.5 million. You don't think it's going to be.

[Tim Bontemps]

The key thing about the thing I think that's relevant about the Mickey Harrison press conference and that vote and all of that was he said at the time it was a symbolic vote. He knew he, he was, he made it clear he was trying to get the CBA passed. The CBA passed and he objected to some of these things and did it in a way so he could make his point while not tanking the agreement. I would say that's both a sign of the way that the Heat and Mickey Harrison in general have gone about being a partner in the league outside of when he took over the team and got a big embroiley with the Knicks over getting Pat Riley there. But that was a very long time.

[Brian Windhorst]

Ago by the way he got. He, he admitted fault there and he paid The Knicks a first round draft pick. The heat of 13 championships and gone to what, six or seven finals since.

[Tim Bontemps]

Yeah, I'd say it's worked out okay.

[Brian Windhorst]

I think it was a good deal.

[Tim Bontemps]

But I, I would say that from the people I have spoken to, I think if the Heat do decide to try to file a grievance to get their pick back, for example, I would say for Heat fans listening and for other fans who are curious how this is going to go, people in the league are not exactly expecting the NBA to say, oh yeah, sure, we'll give you a pick. So I don't, I would not anticipate this well leading to anything one way or the other. But it is a very interesting subplot to a lot of different things that to are going, going on but and.

[Ban McMahon]

Like, okay, even if they don't do the pick, giving them the like green light, saying, hey, you can trade Terry Rosier That's a pretty interesting trade, Chip, especially if a team's trade for him and obviously the guy's not stepping foot in their locker room and you're not.

[Tim Bontemps]

That's why the Kevin Porter thing is relevant. It would be just like what happened with Kevin Porter. He would get waved by somebody who acquired him, almost certainly.

[Ban McMahon]

But I believe, correct me if I'm wrong, did. Didn't the Thunder have to pay Kevin Porter Jr. Sallow?

[Tim Bontemps]

Well, they, yes, they, they acquired him and waived him. Yes.

[Ban McMahon]

Right. But Terry Rosier is not being paid right now.

[Tim Bontemps]

Well, the, the money he is being, the money is going into an escrow account.

[Ban McMahon]

Okay.

[Tim Bontemps]

So if, if he winds up like in long, to make a long story short, the money is being put aside while the legal process plays out, and then we'll see where the legal process lands and where the money winds up.

[Ban McMahon]

Okay.

[Tim Bontemps]

I think the same thing's happening with John C. Billups.

[Ban McMahon]

That's my question, though. If a team hypothetically trades for Rosier, obviously you're talking about to make salaries match, could it potentially be a situation where you're basically able to have whatever the remaining salaries, if you know, 13 million or whatever, just disappear off your books?

[Tim Bontemps]

Well, I think, I think the reason why this is getting a little wonky. It's, I think the reason why it's not just definitively, yes, the Heat will definitely be able to trade Tara Rogier is to make sure there isn't some sort of salary cap circumvention that goes on with the trade. However, I think, I think it's going to be a long time before the legal process plays out. So I don't think that, like, for.

[Brian Windhorst]

Example, certainly not by February 5th.

[Podcast Announcer]

Yeah.

[Tim Bontemps]

I don't think on February 6th there's going to be an announcement that terror like that something happened one way or the other with Terry Rier. So my guess is this is going to go well past this season and the money will stay in the escrow account and it'll either eventually get paid out or it won't. And it, it's not going to really impact anything but that. It is a good question. And I think that's why it's not just an automatic rubber stamp. Yes, we're absolutely going to approve it. But again, the Heat are not a. The Heat. The, the front office of the Heat's been around a long time. I think if they believe that Terry Rosier were not able to be traded, he, they would just use the roster spot on somebody else. I think the fact he's on the roster. I think leaves open a pretty decent possibility that now maybe they won't find a trade they like. Maybe they cut them the next day and then they go after the trade deadline, they go do something else at the roster spot. But my hunch is that if they find a deal they like, it'll probably work out.

[Brian Windhorst]

Before we go, can I tell you one little factoid about Pat Riley and Mickey Harrison and the Heat?

[Tim Bontemps]

I have one thing after that, a special thing at the end of the podcast.

[Brian Windhorst]

When Riley was hired in 1995 as president and coach as like, you know, Mickey Harrison was running Carnival Cruise Lines. His father started it and also founded the Heat, his late father. They did the press conference on a brand new ship, you know, they wanted to take advantage of, look at a little carnival attention. So they had this brand new ship in the port in Miami and they made all the media go and Riley was on the ship and, you know, it was like, oh, we're so happy to be on the carnival ship. That ship has did its whole thing and has been scrapped and Riley is still coaching. It was scrapped like five years ago. And Riley is still running the Heat, which in the NBA, which nobody gives, you know, gets any. Get any. Gets any time to do anything.

[Ban McMahon]

You were not covering the Heat at that time. I assume you were not part of that press conference.

[Brian Windhorst]

I was not, but I love that fact.

[Ban McMahon]

Well, I'm just saying you have a little bit of trouble on those, on those vessels, whether boat, I don't know, maybe you're fine on a ship. I know on a boat you've had some issues.

[Brian Windhorst]

Yes. Injuries were. I was a small craft. That's true. All right, Bontemps. I don't know about this. I don't like this.

[Tim Bontemps]

Well, it's not anything all that bad.

[Ban McMahon]

We'll judge that.

[Tim Bontemps]

It's funny that you brought up your soon to be happening travels, which I do have come off because I'm pretty jealous of what you're going to be doing. So hopefully it works out. Says pretty cool deal. But we have some audio that goes along with your trip. But I think Jackson has ready to play.

[Brian Windhorst]

I don't like this at all.

[Podcast Announcer]

It's now time for another installment of where in the World is Windy? Is he in an LA hotel room counting and recounting the words in his latest feature story so he doesn't get disqualified this time for excessive verbiage? Is he wandering through Asia trying to find acceptable chicken parm or can't find it home? Graciously making leftover turkey a sandwiches for those less fortunate before it gets foul. Vote now and vote often.

[Tim Bontemps]

So our guy, Mike Walczewski, the legend, it still is one of my. The great highlights of my career that Mike Wachuski listens to our podcast and, and just voluntarily sends these things. He sent this to me last week. I forgot to. I forgot to.

[Brian Windhorst]

Legendary PA Voice.

[Tim Bontemps]

Yes, Legend. The legendary PA announcer for the Nicks, who. Everybody who has ever watched a game at the Garden knows exactly who he is. Just, just sends these. It's the best. So after, after your exploits the other day.

Recounting about the award, he just unprompted said that and I was gonna use it on the pod and then I forgot to do it. And then when you started off today talking about your trip, I sent, I said to Jackson, I said, hey, we have this thing we can add right now. So Jax have got it set up. And as a reminder, if you want to give your guesses on where Brian is going, because we don't know where Brian is going, you can call 646-598-4056. That's 646-598-4056 and give guesses on where you think Brian is going and what he's going to be doing. It works perfectly.

[Brian Windhorst]

If everything goes according to plan and the itinerary is tight, it'll. I'll be in three different countries and at five different sporting events.

[Tim Bontemps]

But there's more of the itinerary. It is going to be awesome and it is going to be a tight itinerary.

[Ban McMahon]

So listen, you gave it up.

[Tim Bontemps]

Let's see how it goes.

[Ban McMahon]

The joke, you know, that's not really a hint. That's a humble brag. Can you at least tell us what sports.

[Tim Bontemps]

No, don't. No, no, no, no. We're going to let the listeners.

[Brian Windhorst]

I said it was on my basketball bucket list.

[Tim Bontemps]

We're going to let the. We're going to let the listeners give their guesses and Brian will tell us later where he went.

[Brian Windhorst]

Yeah, I didn't ask you, Brian.

[Tim Bontemps]

It all worked out.

[Ban McMahon]

This is like all coaching the team from the end of the bench. Nobody.

[Brian Windhorst]

I didn't ask.

[Tim Bontemps]

I'm glad I forgot to send this thing along the other day, though, because it worked out perfectly when you launched into this at the start of the podcast.

[Brian Windhorst]

There's no, by the way, I've had some really good Italian food in Asia, but no chicken parm. All right, thank you very much to Mike Walczewski. Thank you so much To Jackson for putting it all together. Thank you. To BonTemps. Thank you, McMahon. Thank you for listening and watching to the Hoop Collective. Talk to you in a couple days.

[Ban McMahon]

Adios mios.

Hi there.

[Tim Bontemps]

Surprise.

[Podcast Announcer]

30 for 30 presents.

[Tim Bontemps]

Booyah. Can I get a witness from the congregation?

[Ban McMahon]

You can't stop authenticity.

[Brian Windhorst]

Booyah.

[Tim Bontemps]

Stewart was exactly like you saw him on camera. Off camera. He dialed it up 10%. Can you imagine the impact of young.

[Brian Windhorst]

Black boys and girls looking at that.

[Tim Bontemps]

Going, I feel seen. He changed the culture. He changed sports.

[Podcast Announcer]

Booyah. Presented by modelo. Premieres on December 10th at 9pm Eastern on ESPN.