Luka Returns To Dallas, Denver Fires Coach, Rockets’ Potential + Evan Mobley Interview

Summary

Brian Windhorst & The Hoop Collective Podcast Summary

Episode Title: Luka Returns To Dallas, Denver Fires Coach, Rockets’ Potential + Evan Mobley Interview
Release Date: April 9, 2025

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I. Luka Doncic's Return to Dallas Mavericks

Timestamp: [01:38] - [07:56]

The episode kicks off with an in-depth discussion about Luka Doncic's highly anticipated return to the Dallas Mavericks. Host Brian Windhorst and co-hosts Tim McMahon and Tim Bontemps analyze Luka's previous performance against the Lakers, highlighting his emotional state and on-court behavior. McMahon notes, “Luka had a triple-double, but he was like 6 of 17 and other than a few barks down towards the Mavericks bench in the first quarter, it wasn't super emotional” ([02:23]). They explore the dynamics of Luka playing in a Dallas arena, predicting an intense and emotionally charged atmosphere fueled by thousands of Luka jerseys in various colors.

Key Points:

• Emotional Stakes: Luka is expected to be highly emotional, drawing on his history of thriving as the "enemy" in road arenas.
• Fan Dynamics: The Mavericks' fan base is caught between loyal Mavericks supporters and Luka's numerous admirers from other teams, including Lakers fans.
• Strategic Defense: The Mavericks are likely to implement heavy double-teaming strategies to limit Luka’s scoring opportunities.

II. Denver Nuggets Fire Coach Michael Malone and GM Calvin Booth

Timestamp: [11:51] - [31:24]

A significant portion of the episode addresses the shocking news of the Denver Nuggets announcing the firing of head coach Michael Malone and general manager Calvin Booth just days before the playoffs. Windhorst expresses his astonishment: “I am stunned” ([11:51]). The hosts delve into the implications of this move, questioning the timing and reasoning behind firing a championship-winning coach with the season still underway.

Notable Quotes:

• Tim McMahon: “This is a championship coach who was fired a little more than a week before the playoffs start. That's interesting.” ([12:01])
• Brian Windhorst: “The Nuggets are in a very challenging moment here to salvage this season with a four game losing streak with Jamal Murray in his health in some jeopardy” ([13:48])
• Tim Bontemps: “Fire your coach and your GM when you have the best player on the planet...” ([16:58])

Key Points:

• Leadership Changes: The abrupt removal of Malone and Booth raises questions about internal conflicts and future direction.
• Team Performance: The Nuggets are facing a four-game losing streak, with key player Jamal Murray’s health being a significant concern.
• Future Implications: The firing could lead to further instability within the organization, affecting playoff performance and future seasons.
• Ownership’s Role: Speculation that ownership (Josh Kroenke and Stan Kroenke) may have intervened due to disagreements between Malone and Booth.

III. Houston Rockets' Ascending Trajectory

Timestamp: [37:42] - [44:40]

Shifting focus to the Houston Rockets, the discussion highlights their impressive performance despite being relatively overshadowed throughout the season. The team has secured the second seed in the Western Conference, showcasing strong defensive strategies and resilience despite injuries to key players.

Key Points:

• Defensive Excellence: Under Coach IME Udoka, the Rockets have established a robust defensive culture, contributing to their high seeding.
• Young Core Development: The Rockets emphasize nurturing young talent, including emerging stars like Amend Thompson and Jalen Green, aiming to build a sustainable contender.
• Strategic Asset Management: The team has adeptly managed their assets post-James Harden's trade, accumulating valuable draft picks and young players.
• Playoff Readiness: The Rockets view the playoffs as a critical experience for their young core, positioning themselves for potential title contention in the future.

Notable Quotes:

• Tim McMahon: “Their hope is that that superstar will be homegrown.” ([39:00])
• Tim Bontemps: “These playoffs are going to be a great experience for that young core...” ([41:51])

IV. Interview with Evan Mobley of the Cleveland Cavaliers

Timestamp: [45:55] - [60:23]

In a special segment, Evan Mobley joins the podcast to discuss his stellar season with the Cleveland Cavaliers. The conversation covers his development as a player, the impact of coaching changes, and his aspirations for future accolades.

Notable Quotes:

• On Development:
  Evan Mobley: “That game definitely propelled me into the season I'm having this year. Definitely boosted my confidence knowing what I can do out there on big stages like that.” ([47:25])

• On Coaching Changes:
  Evan Mobley: “When Kenny came in, he had sets ready and have us already on the same page to go where we're going right now.” ([48:38])

• On Defensive Prowess:
  Evan Mobley: “I feel like I deserve this award just based on what we've been talking about this whole entire interview and my defensive prowess.” ([56:36])

Key Points:

• Career Growth: Evan discusses his impressive performance in high-pressure games and how they have set the stage for his current success.
• Coaching Impact: Transitioning from J.B. Bickerstaff to Kenny brings new strategies that have enhanced his role on the team.
• Play Style Evolution: Emphasizing his improved three-point shooting and playmaking abilities, Evan highlights how these developments have allowed him to thrive alongside teammate Jarrett Allen.
• Future Aspirations: Mobley expresses his ambition to earn awards such as Defensive Player of the Year and emphasizes his focus on team success over personal accolades.

Notable Quotes:

• Evan Mobley on Leadership: “I like to let my job on the court really talk. I'm not really too much of a talkative guy, but I mean, I think I definitely deserve this award...” ([56:36])
• Discussing Defensive Strategy: “...we have to be there at all moments on our P's and Q's...” ([54:33])

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Conclusion

This episode of Brian Windhorst & The Hoop Collective provides a comprehensive analysis of significant NBA events as of April 2025. From Luka Doncic's emotional return to Dallas, the unexpected leadership shake-up in Denver, the Houston Rockets' rise, to an insightful interview with rising star Evan Mobley, the discussion is rich with expert insights and memorable quotes. Whether you're an avid follower of the NBA or new to the scene, this episode delivers a detailed and engaging overview of current basketball narratives.

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Notable Quotes Compilation:

• “Let's get them over with.” – TaxAct Representative ([00:29])
• “...you're messing with Jokic's [Jokic's] bleep here.” – Brian Windhorst ([34:30])

Note: Advertisements and non-content segments have been excluded to maintain focus on the key discussions and analyses.

Transcript

[TaxAct Representative]

The tax deadline is almost here and TaxAct has live experts to help answer any last minute questions you may have. Questions like can I claim my SUV is my home office? If I answer work emails in my car? If I adopted 12 dogs this year, can I list them as dependents and am I doing this right or am I doing this very, very wrong? Our experts have the answers to those questions and many others.

[Brian Windhorst]

Tax Act.

[TaxAct Representative]

Let's get them over with.

[Brian Windhorst]

Hello and welcome to the Hoop Collective podcast. We talk about the NBA which we're doing on Tuesday afternoon. Joining me from New York City, where later on he's going to go see the Knicks host the Celtics playoff preview. I don't know. Tim Bontemps.

[Tim Bontemps]

Hello everybody.

[Brian Windhorst]

Joining us from Dallas, Texas, where the eyes of the NBA world are going to be on Wednesday night, the author of the Wonder Boy, Luka Doncic and the Curse of Greatness, it's Timothy band McMahon.

[Tim McMahon]

Howdy partners. Yeah, this is going to be quite a festive atmosphere. The old American Airlines center surreal circus is what I'm anticipating. Should be fun.

[Brian Windhorst]

By the way, Jackson is out here this week in LA and I took him to a spectacular dinner last night. Five course steak dinner. Did it up because, you know, I think he should be taken care of.

[Tim McMahon]

Oh, you actually picked up a bill for a change.

[Tim Bontemps]

It's hard to argue with that. However, Jackson showed up for the pot today wearing what he called, quote, a shacket. So he might not be the producer after today. We'll see. Oh, there it is. There's the shacket.

[Brian Windhorst]

Well, actually we went to a part 5:00 because we're both on east coast time. We were hungry for dinner at 5 and 6:15, was ready to ready, was ready for bed. All right, so we've been looking forward, this has been circled for a long time. McMahon, the Luka return game. The Mavericks are I guess in better position than they could have been because Anthony Davis is back from injury. Derek Lively is back from injury. When they played in L. A, Luka had a triple double, but he was like 6 of 17 and other than a few barks down towards the Mavericks bench in the first quarter, it wasn't super emotional. I don't think the crowd's going to let him be anything but super emotional in this game.

[Tim McMahon]

Yeah, and in la you saw, I thought it was going to be like a full blown Luca Wrath type of performance and you saw a glimpse of that. There was that timeout in the first quarter. He came out hot. He hit a three, you know, stared down the bench snarled bark. I was like, oh, here we go. And that was kind of that. And, you know, Luke, after the game said, man, I'm just glad this is over. Like, the emotions were still fresh and raw and he was kind of trying to suppress it because honestly, at the time, the emotion, the prevailing emotion for him was sadness. I think he has found his joy again with the Lakers. Obviously, the Lakers, you know, have played well, have positioned themselves to. You have to kind of look at them as at least a reasonable threat in the Western Conference right now, especially with what we just saw them do to Oklahoma City Sunday afternoon when they, when they came out guns a blazing. But this is going to be a different deal. You know, I've seen Luca. We've all seen Luca thrive as the enemy in a road arena and just kind of use that. The. The, you know, the, the hate from fans, as you might say.

[Brian Windhorst]

Yeah. How many, how many interactions over the years with courtside fans? Like, dozens. Dozens.

[Tim McMahon]

Yeah. And. And if there isn't that guy, he'll. He'll make something up. He'll use that, though, as fuel, you know, and like some of the best performances of his career. Elimination game in Minnesota last year, Game seven in Phoenix. Like, we've seen him just thrive as the enemy. We've never seen him be showered with love and, you know, adulation and just.

[Tim Bontemps]

I don't know if we've ever seen a situation like this is going to be on Wednesday, potentially.

[Brian Windhorst]

I agree. We've seen so many return games, but this is. This is completely unique.

[Tim McMahon]

Well, and it's going to be. Honestly, it's going to be so I don't know how he's going to process those emotions in real time. And for Mavericks fans, this is celebrating six and a half years of spectacular brilliance. Right? And this guy for, like, we understand his flaws. Mavericks fans were either fiercely protective of them or very forgiving. And understandably so, given his accomplishments. Five time first team, all NBA selection, you know, all the rest celebrating six and a half years of brilliance and then mourning that it wasn't a hell of a lot longer than that. Much, much more than that. So this is going to be like, I think, a emotionally draining experience for the people in the stands. And, you know, you're going to see thousands of Luca jerseys. There will be a bunch of Mavericks ones, there will be a bunch of Slovenian ones, and there will be a bunch of Lakers ones. And I would say a sellout crowd, which has not been the norm since the trade. And everybody in the arena almost is Going to be wanting to see Lucas score 50, 60, 70 points. The people on the Mavericks bench, on the Mavericks, you know, Mavericks uniforms will not be trying to see that. And like in la, I assume the Mavericks are going to throw a whole bunch of double teams at him and basically say, hey, if you can beat doubles all night, you can, you can put up big numbers, but you, we're going to make you give the ball up if we can.

[Brian Windhorst]

Yeah. So when there was Laker games there in the past, how strong was the Lakers contingent? How, you know, there's always, there's always that way on the road. But how big was it usually?

[Tim McMahon]

Yeah, I would say, you know, there's always, 20, 30% of the crowd was Lakers fans, which honestly is probably on the low end for them.

[Brian Windhorst]

I agree.

[Tim McMahon]

In arenas around the, around the league, like there's a lot of Lakers games that feel almost like March Madness, neutral court type of games. And it's Lakers and it's warriors. Right. And so you know, you're definitely going to have your normal contingent of just hardcore Lakers fans, but you're. Those will be outnumbered by Luca fans. And then honestly, dude, there are a lot of long time hardcore die hard Mavericks fans that are questioning their loyalty to the franchise and that are kind of trying to figure out are we more Mavericks fans now? Are we more Luca fans now? And loyalty is such a big part of. Obviously every fan base is experienced, but especially the Mavericks with Dirk and Luca being the guy who took the torch from him and the statue outside the arena. That sums up Dirk's legendary career and record breaking 21 year run with 21 letters. Loyalty never fades away. That was kind of the, the motto of the franchise until just before midnight February 1st. You know, midnight Central time in Dallas, when you know, loyalty was not a big part of the equation in making this trade, to say the least.

[Brian Windhorst]

Also, this game doesn't have, it does have some meaning. So the Lakers have not clinched home court yet in the first round.

[Tim Bontemps]

No, it's got a ton of meaning.

[Brian Windhorst]

And the Mavericks are still trying to secure number number nine. And I mean that's a sad statement if you're a Mavericks fan. But like it, if you want to do something in the play in, you need to win the first game and you'd rather play it at home. So you know, like they, whatever their, whatever their postseason aspirations are, the Mavericks need to win the game one.

[Tim Bontemps]

So did the Lakers. I mean, the Lakers have to too. I mean they, they, they got a huge win is what man referenced that game On Sunday, one of their best performances of the season obviously dominated in that game against the Thunder. They have the Thunder again Tuesday night. We're not going to talk about any games Tuesday night other than to say that it certainly seems like a lot of the guys on the Lakers are not going to be playing in this game on Tuesday night in order to be ready for this Dallas game on Wednesday. And I think the main reason the Lakers are doing that is they're currently two games up in the loss column on the next five teams behind them and sitting in third.

[Brian Windhorst]

So they actually, more well from the.

[Tim Bontemps]

Lakers have the eighth there. The Lakers are tied to 32 wins or losses.

[Brian Windhorst]

The Lakers have the greatest tiebreaker profile that I can ever remember in a. In a race like this. They literally own the tiebreaker individually on every one of those teams. So if they tied with any of them, they own it. It's crazy. And so therefore any. You know, because what you do is if you have three or four teams tied, it goes to record amongst them. They go. They own the tiebreaker on all those groups. Because even if the tiebreaker. Even if, like I think like against Memphis, for example, they went 2 and 2. But because they're the Pacific Division leader, which divisions don't matter in anything. I'm not even sure the average NBA fan could tell you the divisions. Maybe they could get the Pacific Division. I mean, name the teams. But because they're the Pacific Division leader, they actually have a better record in their division than the Thunder do in their division.

[Tim Bontemps]

Yeah, The Lakers are under.500 against the East. They're 34 and 14 against the West. So yes, all they. All they really have to. The upshot of all this is what they have to do is win one of these two games. And so they obviously got one in Oklahoma City. They're probably not winning the second game in Oklahoma City. Just anyway, because usually in a baseball series they struggle to win both games. So it makes sense to save up and be ready for this Mavs game. But like, if they lose this Mavs game, then all of a sudden you've got Houston on Friday and their situation could get pretty dicey. So this is.

[Tim McMahon]

You guys were nerding out on. Listen, you're nerding out, okay?

[Tim Bontemps]

It's not. I'm not nerding out on tiebreakers. The Lakers need to win the game. It's not just a Luca return. So they're. It's going to be interesting to see how they handle it because if. If it is because become an emotional game and they lose has more ramifications than just, well, Luca didn't win his game back in Dallas. Like, it could really have a big part in where they land in the playoffs in a week. That's all.

[Tim McMahon]

It's just.

[Tim Bontemps]

It's got extra meaning beyond that.

[Tim McMahon]

I understand that. I understand the. The playoff se. Ramifications. It's still possible they could slip into play. I get all that. Nobody is going to be thinking about that walking onto the floor. What they want to make sure happens is that Luca, this guy that they're wrapping their arms around, this guy is going to be the face of their franchise, you know, along with LeBron for a little bit. And then they hope for years to come after that. This guy who was stabbed in the back by the Mavericks and then publicly shamed on his way out the door. They want to make sure that he doesn't walk out of the arena that night a loser. They want to make sure that Luka can stick it to the Mavericks, and in doing so, great, it helps their playoff positioning. But, like, they're not looking at the standing say, well, you're both right.

[Brian Windhorst]

I know that's not fun.

[Tim Bontemps]

I'm not making.

[Brian Windhorst]

I'm not making that.

[Tim Bontemps]

I think you're not making that face. I'm not making that face because of that. Our colleague John Charani just reported that Michael Baloney just got fired, so. Oh, that's why. That's why I was making that face. Not. Not at McMan's point. So. Wow. That. That's. That's an interesting. That's an interesting sequence of events that I was not expecting this afternoon.

[Brian Windhorst]

I am stunned.

[Tim Bontemps]

I'm a lot more stunned by this. Until the Jenkins getting fired, put it that way. Yeah.

[Tim McMahon]

This is a championship coach who was fired a little more than a week before the playoffs start. That's interesting.

[Brian Windhorst]

I am stunned.

[Tim McMahon]

It takes a lot to overshadow Lucas return to Dallas.

[Brian Windhorst]

This is, you know, we're doing. We're reacting to this in real time. By the time you hear this podcast, they'll be more known, obviously. I know that. You know, one thing that we've known for a long time is that Michael Malone has routinely. He's been. It's been the give and take, back and forth, quarreling about playing young players versus playing veterans. Malone wants to play veterans. He always wants to acquire more veterans. He doesn't like that the. The Nuggets lean into young players. He doesn't like that Calvin Booth, the general manager, who, by the way, his contract is expiring at the end of the season. This is not something that we've talked about much but Calvin Booth, to my knowledge at this moment, and again more information will become known, but it's my knowledge of this moment. Calvin Booth has not extended his contract. So Calvin Booth's future is in question. Yeah. So it's, it's, it's stunning. The Nuggets are in a very challenging moment here to salvage this season with a four game losing streak with Jamal Murray in, you know, in, you know, his health in some jeopardy with their, they've lost leverage in the standings right now. They're, you know, they're de facto seventh coming into the games tonight. There's four games amongst the tied teams tonight.

[Tim Bontemps]

When Michael Malone just said the other day, I think on Sunday before the game with the Pacers, which they lost, that, you know, the hope is that they'll get Murray back for the playoffs with this hamstring injury, but that it wasn't them just being cautious with him and that he's really dealing with something and that's obviously a big concern. Yeah, no, look, I, we talked a lot about the Taylor Jenkins move and why there was reasons to, to understand why that happened. I was just texting with people yesterday. I still, even after this losing streak, I still would have picked Denver second of all these teams in the west to win the title. And I was not really all that concerned about, I mean not concerned. I wasn't really that worried about them having a hiccup in the standings. I was worried about Jamal's health and whether he was going to be right. But I, I did not see, I did not see this coming. But I will say this is, I think a sign of things to come from the standpoint that if you look at where just the Western Conference is right there are. We just talked about it before. There's eight teams that are all going to think they can win multiple rounds in the playoffs. They all can't win multiple rounds in the playoffs. They all can't host around in the playoffs. So there's going to be a lot of disappointed teams and when there are disappointed teams, that goes for both conferences. You know you. I'm going to be at Nick Celtics tonight. Knicks made a bunch of trades this summer. They certainly believe they can make a deeper run. They might have to play Boston in the second round. The first three games this season have been routes in Boston's favor. Like there. We'll see what happens in the playoffs there. Like there are a lot of teams across the league that are going to be feeling disappointed over the next couple months, which is going to lead to changes down the road, whether it's players, coaches, whatever.

[Brian Windhorst]

I agree with you. But this is firing him before the disappointment.

[Tim Bontemps]

I just think it's got a chance to be a very chaotic couple of months from a transaction standpoint on a lot of fronts, that's all.

[Tim McMahon]

But typically that chaos hits once teams are eliminated. And this is twice now that we've seen coaches. And this is a coach who won a championship a couple of years ago. Fire before.

[Tim Bontemps]

This one is bizarre.

[Brian Windhorst]

Is he the third long? Again, we're all reacting this in real time. Is he the third longest tenured coach in the league behind Spoelstra and Popovich? I think that might be right.

[Tim Bontemps]

Has to be.

[Tim McMahon]

Has to be.

[Tim Bontemps]

I'll double check it. I'll double check a quick look at the math. But I mean, he's been there for 10 years. There's nobody. Nobody else.

[Tim McMahon]

Very, very curious to hear the explanation of why this was a decision that was made right now. Like, right now.

[Brian Windhorst]

Fourth law.

[Tim Bontemps]

Oh, behind Kerr, of course. Yeah.

[Brian Windhorst]

Oh, Steve Kerr.

[Tim Bontemps]

There's. There's a little bit more news. Just so you know, our colleague Chom Shiran has reported that Calvin Booth has also been fired. Well, less than a week before the playoffs. Fire your coach and your GM when you have the best player on the planet and are pretty much, I would say, universally considered to be a team with a top five at max, top six chance to win a title this year.

[Tim McMahon]

That is so. So I guess the answer is nobody won the power struggle. But this is like what. You have the best player in the world and the playoffs start in days. What are you doing right now?

[Brian Windhorst]

As we talked about earlier, that actually, the Calvin Booth being out isn't as. No, it doesn't hit me as much of a stunner because his contract was not extended.

[Tim Bontemps]

Well, it's a stunner that it's happening on April 8th. Like again, like.

[Brian Windhorst]

Yes. No, the timing is. Well, the timing.

[Tim Bontemps]

Timing is bizarre.

[Brian Windhorst]

If Calvin Booth. If it had come out today that Calvin Booth had been let go, the. The timing would have been stunning. But it was one of those things where we knew below the surface he hadn't signed a contract extension. The Nuggets have let executives go in the past where they haven't worked out contracts. It's happened three or four times. It's. It wouldn't have been like. Like definitely would have led the podcast, would have led NBA today. But again, happening in real time here. What I suspect is that ownership, which is Josh Kroenke and Stan Kroenke, but Josh Kroenke is the governor reacting, the president. He may have been tired of the back and forth between them and he just said, you're both fired. It's still shocking that they would jeopardize what they could do this season. And again, Malone did lay into the players after they, who do they lose to on Sunday? I forget now, they lost four in a row, but oh, they lost to the Pacers. He said after the game he lit into the team and he called them names and everything like that. But that isn't discernible from an average Michael Malone. It's like that's like one out of every four days. So, you know, like, maybe he did say something, maybe we'll learn that something happened. But like it was hard to raise an alert because he's always doing that.

[Tim Bontemps]

He's a hot, he's a hot tempered guy, always has been. But again, I, this is a, this is a truly strange one.

[Tim McMahon]

I, I, I, I just. Why does this not wait until they're eliminated? I don't understand that. And maybe we'll find out. Maybe there's reasoning that makes sense, but I'm having a hard time.

[Tim Bontemps]

It's hard to come up with the reasoning that makes sense to fire your coach and your GM six days before the end of the season when you are universally considered, at worst, a fringe title contender.

[Brian Windhorst]

Well, I just go back to the greatest interview of, of the, of the last decade that I've read from a general manager, which was Calvin Booth, to The Ringer Kevin O'Connor from the Ringer last, before last season, which Calvin later claimed should have been off the record but had a bunch of amazing gems.

[Tim Bontemps]

Well, he then, he then at the trade deadline was openly talking about chopping named players too.

[Brian Windhorst]

Well, he's back in February. He's got a, he's clearly loose when talking to the media, which is why he doesn't do it that much. But I just want to say that this was the first quote in the story and it was from October 16, 2023. So, you know, three months before. Three months before. Three months after they won the championship. And Calvin Booth said if everything is optimized, we should win three or four titles. And I agreed. But it hasn't been optimized. They've lost veteran players. They've lost three veteran players since their title, which would be Bruce Brown, Jeff Green, Kentavius, Caldwell Pope. It's not like those guys have Gone elsewhere and dominated. Okay. It's not like had they spent, you know, tens of millions to retain them that like it was a guarantee. But they lost those three players and the players that they have drafted have done okay. And certainly Christian Brown has had a very good year.

[Tim McMahon]

Right.

[Brian Windhorst]

By the way, Christian Brown was going to come on this podcast for Friday. I'm suspecting that's going to be canceled. I don't know, Christian. You're still welcome.

[Tim Bontemps]

Somebody wants to come give their awards pitch to win Horse, huh?

[Brian Windhorst]

Yeah. Yeah. Obviously that was set up yesterday.

[Tim McMahon]

Was he coming on a campaign for Malone to get coach of the Year?

[Tim Bontemps]

I assume for Most Improved, which he might get a vote for me for, but man, that's.

[Brian Windhorst]

Well, I'm just. The reason I'm saying that is that this was being lined up with me yesterday. So it wasn't like that there was a feel within the organization yesterday that this was going to be coming yesterday being Monday and the timeframe we're doing. I'm also going to say this. You know, I've known Michael Malone for 20 years. I have him in my phone as Mike Malone because that's what I knew.

[Tim Bontemps]

He was Mike and now he's Michael.

[Brian Windhorst]

And I had a long conversation with them earlier this season about the state of things, and it was off the record, I will say now, but he was talking about how it's been amazing to be the head coach of this team for so long and be able to have. He always calls him Nikola. He never calls him Jokic. Everybody call. Everybody says Jokic or the Joker.

[Tim Bontemps]

He always calls him Nikola every time.

[Brian Windhorst]

And he just said what an incredible privilege it's been to have Nikola, because not only has Nikola been wonderful for the Nuggets, but he's been wonderful for him. That he's enabled him to get multiple contract extensions, that he's enabled him to get a ring, and that he's enabled him to stay and coach and live in Denver while his daughters got through high school. So I think his. His. His one daughter is, I think, finishing high school this year. And like how a wonderful gift it is that he. They've been able, because of Nicola, been able to make Denver their home. And the reason I say that story is because he recognized he's the son of a former NBA coach, head coach who coached in the league for 40 years, the late great Brendan Malone. He knows that it's. That this is not reality, that coaches typically don't get six, seven, eight years in a place. So saving all that, like he knew In a way, he had already incredibly beat the odds. And so I suspect when he does speak about this, which who knows that long when that'll be, that it'll be an absolute appreciation for Nicole Jokic. But that's neither here nor there. What's more important is what the Nuggets going to do in the wake of this. And they have a game Wednesday night in Sacramento and I don't know how that that's going to, I don't know how that's going to go well.

[Tim McMahon]

And typically winning a title buys a head coach more than a couple more seasons on that particular bench. Like, I mean, again, the Taylor Jenkins thing, we all knew he was getting fired at the end of the year, year. We all knew he'd been undercut. You knew there was friction between Malone and Booth. Somebody needs to explain why this made sense right now. And honestly, like, forget explaining it publicly, I would think somebody needs to explain this to Nikola Jokic.

[Tim Bontemps]

Yeah, it's worth pointing out because we're obviously we're doing this in real time, but Michael Malone is a big part of why Nikola Jokic's player. He is like, if you go back 10, it's easy to look at him now as a inner circle hall of Famer, right. But back 10 years ago when he started playing, they had use of Nuric, who was a first round draft pick at the same position. And halfway through Jokic's rookie year, Malone was like, yeah, we're starting this dude, this dude's better. And it was a pretty big deal at the time. And you know, obviously he's been vindicated for seeing that in Jokic over time. And it's been obviously an incredible partnership. And you know, it is going to be fascinating to your point, big man, to hear what the, what the reasoning is for why this happened now. I mean, the only thing I can think of, I probably shouldn't even speculate is, you know, if the front office decided the coach needed to be fired and ownership said okay, then you can go too. I, I don't know what else it could be, but I, it's just really crazy to do this today. And you know, David Adelman, son of the great Rick Adelman, is going to be the interim head coach. And, you know, Ryan Saunders is on staff. Obviously he's been a head coach. We'll see how these guys can handle a playoff run. But it's. The Memphis thing was one thing, as you said, for many reasons, this is very different. And I feel like we're going to be feeling the ripple effects of this.

[Brian Windhorst]

One for a while, the Nuggets positioning in the. If you look at their salaries because of what they. So for next year, between Michael Porter Jr. Jamal Murray and Nikola Jokic and Aaron Gordon, you're looking at about 150, 160, almost million dollars between those four players and an ownership that has paid the tax the last few years but is very cautious about it. It's no other way of saying it. And so the ability for them to improve the roster is challenged, which is why they are heavily reliant on the young players that they've drafted over the last three or four years, come in and play major roles. And what basically has happened over the last three or four years, they've traded for extra picks in that straight in that stretch is that Calvin Booth has drafted a bunch of wing players. So he drafted Christian Brown. That has been really good. He drafted Julian Strother. That's been up and down. He drafted Perry Peyton Watson. That's been up and down. He drafted Jalen Pickett, who was. I know, a point guard. That's been not impact.

[Tim Bontemps]

I mean, there's been one hit of those guys in Christian Brown who's been really.

[Brian Windhorst]

Their first year. Yeah, their first round pick this year, Daron Holmes, towards Achilles last summer. He's a power forward. He has been able to play. You know, I don't think they were counting on him to give major minutes. So as a result, Malone has at times not wanted to play those guys and he's wanted to play Russell Westbrook, for example, always played his front guys more.

[Tim McMahon]

Zeke Naj is another guy who they drafted and they gave a contract extension that Malone didn't want to play.

[Brian Windhorst]

Right. But that was five years ago.

[Tim McMahon]

But, well, but that was a point of contention between coaching.

[Brian Windhorst]

Going behind the scenes here. I just had to pause to take a call from someone very close to Michael Malone and he just made the point that it was a disrespectful move because Michael Malone won him a championship and was the winningest coach in franchise history. I mean, hell, I mean, this guy didn't say it, but like Michael Malone might be on his way to a Hall of Fame coaching career.

[Tim Bontemps]

I mean, it's hard, it's hard for NBA coaches to get in the hall of Fame just because of how the hall of Fame is set up. But I mean, he's had an unbelievable run there. And I can't, I can't disagree at all. Like, it, it just, it's just very, it's very Crazy that this happened today with this team in the situation that it's in and that he's not going to get a chance to coach this team through the playoffs. When like I said, I. I was thought they were the second best team in the west and had a shot to. To get back to the finals and win again. Just stunning.

[Tim McMahon]

Perhaps Michael Malone's feelings will be soothed by the statement released by the Nuggets from Josh Kroenke. The vice chairman of Kroenke Sports Entertainment. Starts with. It is with no pleasure that we announce that we have relieved Michael Malone of his head coach and duties effectively immediately later on. It says the decision was not made lightly and was evaluated very carefully. It also says while the timing of this decision is unfortunate, mentions there's no amount of gratitude that we can properly convey to his contributions since he joined our franchise in 2015. And it is with our utmost respect that we would like to thank Coach Malone for the most successful decade in Nuggets history, setting the all time wins record and helping deliver Denver our first championship. So it was with the utmost respect. Just to clarify.

[Brian Windhorst]

Well, there's no good way to fire a coach. I mean, there's nothing you can say in the statement that's going to make any feel better.

[Tim McMahon]

Yeah. Not to fire a championship coach.

[Brian Windhorst]

There's no good way to fire a coach.

[Tim McMahon]

It doesn't exist.

[Tim Bontemps]

Well, how about this. How about this headline? How about this headline? Denver Nuggets relieve head coach Michael Malone of duties. Semicolon will not extend Calvin Booth. That is a, that is an all time headline on Nuggets.

[Brian Windhorst]

Well, yeah, so that's one of those things where, you know, we didn't fire him. We just didn't renew his contract, like, you know, whatever.

[Tim Bontemps]

But also he's. Also, he's. You're doing this on April 8th. I just. It's unbelievable when they start, when they start the GM search today.

[Brian Windhorst]

Well, I think the MGM search, I think the g. The sort of. I think the GM search has kind of already unofficially been being considered. Like I said, it was not a secret in the league that Calvin was not going to be back.

[Tim Bontemps]

Look, that. That is again, this.

[Brian Windhorst]

That. But again. You know what though? Let me, let me take that back. Let me take that back. If Denver had had like gone on a run and gotten back to the finals, which I wouldn't have bet on, but they've got the best player or argue. I mean, I think he's the best player.

[Tim Bontemps]

Yeah.

[Brian Windhorst]

You couldn't, you couldn't have fired the GM after that. So you know what I'm going to take. I'm going to walk back my own statement there. No, it wouldn't. It still doesn't make sense. It still doesn't make sense to do it now with the gm.

[Tim McMahon]

What I don't see anywhere in this statement is any sort of reasonable explanation for why the decision was made and especially why it was made. Now the the closest that it comes to it, it says we do it only with the intention of giving our group the best chance competing for the 2025 NBA Championship and blah blah blah. But like it is a necessary step.

[Tim Bontemps]

To allow us to be at the highest level right now.

[Tim McMahon]

Yeah, well. And you know that implies that they.

[Brian Windhorst]

Didn'T think they could compete at the.

[Tim Bontemps]

Highest level with Michael Malone as their head coach, which.

[Tim McMahon]

Well, and you know, you're hearing the players. You hear that every time a coach is fired. And I don't know, man. This one. No, I don't get it. More Hoop Collective podcast after this.

[Brian Windhorst]

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[Brian Windhorst]

By the way, Bontemps, you don't even know who. You don't know who the coach of the Nuggets is. How about that?

[Tim Bontemps]

I know who the coach of the Nugget is and I. The next time I see him, I'll shake his hand and say hello to him and tell him he's done an unbelievable job. And I'm pretty sure I'll say hello, Tim back.

[Brian Windhorst]

Yeah, he did David Adam job. He did do another job.

[Tim McMahon]

It's.

[Tim Bontemps]

It's. Yeah, I mean, he's, he's had a.

[Tim McMahon]

It's.

[Tim Bontemps]

Yeah, he's had an incredible, incredible run there. And can I just say, it's just, it's really wild.

[Brian Windhorst]

Not for nothing. And again, aggregation can leap all over me here. You got to realize we heard this like 20 minutes ago. They got to be real careful here because they got a superstar in his prime. And I know that he has never done anything but show total focus on winning the next game. But you're messing with Jokic's bleep here. So you. Maybe we'll find out that Jokic was on board with this. If that's true, I would be stunned. I don't know. I would be stunned. Jokic is not a guy who hangs out with ownership. He doesn't. The owners don't consult the host.

[Tim Bontemps]

He hangs out with the ownership of his horses that he.

[Brian Windhorst]

That's right.

[Tim Bontemps]

Maintains.

[Brian Windhorst]

I'm just saying that's what he's interested in. They are bleeping with Jokic. His bleep.

[Tim McMahon]

With his prime. With his prime.

[Brian Windhorst]

And better not screw this up because people always thought, well, I'm not even gonna get into that. I'm not gonna say anything. I'm just gonna say this.

[Tim McMahon]

Yeah, you're talking about an all time great player. I don't feel like having the debate is he top 10? Whatever. He's in that type of conversation. And when you have a guy like that, if he wins a championship at the end of the career, it's. You only won one championship with him. And frankly it's, it's like the Mavericks with Dirk. They won a championship with him and man, that parade was awesome. But they only won one. And Dirk had unflinching blind loyalty to the franchise. Maybe Joker is cut from that exact same cloth. But I don't think anybody in the league or the world would blame Joker if he looks around this summer and thinks, do I want to spend the rest of my prime in Denver considering the circumstances? They've got some big, big decisions that they have put themselves on the clock to make right now.

[Tim Bontemps]

Yeah, they got to hire a coach and they got to hire a gm. They got to do that at minimum.

[Tim McMahon]

Yeah. And then that GM better get to work on like, you know, tweaking the roster.

[Tim Bontemps]

I was just making a joke. I was just making a joke on the situation.

[Brian Windhorst]

They don't pay their executives, so, you know, and they've done a great job in finding young and up and coming executives. I mean, they've, they have hired three or four executives in a row that have either one executive of the year or should have won executive of the year, like dating back to my whole 20 plus years covering the NBA. So. But I'm just saying, like, they don't pay, so, like, they're not going to go out.

[Tim McMahon]

No longer there.

[Brian Windhorst]

That's right. Messiah was never there. And Mark Warkantin, rip, he was executive of the year. They didn't resign him. Kiki Vanderway, who took them from being the worst team in the league to being a playoff team. They didn't resign him anyway, so. But whoever gets the general manager job is going to have to deal with the fact that they're, they're very light on assets and light on ability to change the roster. And they're going to have to deal with the fact that they got Jokic in his prime. So anyway, it's a nice problem to.

[Tim McMahon]

Have, but, you know, and maybe, maybe Joker's okay with just playing out the rest of his career in Denver and doing the best he can with the pieces around them. Again, we saw Dirk do that, but that is by far the exception to the norm.

[Brian Windhorst]

Okay. We did want to speak a little bit about the Houston Rockets. They've been overshadowed in the league for a lot of the year and especially in the second part of the league. And I don't want to give them short shrift here a little bit because they've just had an absolutely incredible couple of days. They're in just tremendous position of being the two seed in the Western Conference, which they're almost certainly going to lock up. They've done it with great defense. They've done it despite some injuries to key players throughout the process. It's not like they've had a season where they've been healthy, nobody else has. They've, they've had some key players go down for stretches and they've been able to do it. IME Udoka, we talked about him the other day as a coach of the year candidate. They're sort of the, that's Michael Maloney, he's ready to go party. They're, they're, they've been sort of the opposite of the Nuggets, which is that as the season's gone along, the Rockets have gotten stronger and solidified their position, whereas the Nuggets, who at one point were in great shape, have lost their position. Man, definitely a team that deserves our attention.

[Tim McMahon]

Well, and I've spent a decent amount of time in Houston lately and around the Rockets and talking to people in the organization. Patrick Fertitta, who's the day to day ownership presence, Rafael Stone, their gm, Eme Adoka. They are all aligned and they are aligned in a big picture sense of they feel like they are a superstar away from being a real deal title contender. And they are aligned in the hope that that superstar will be homegrown. And you know, whether that's Apper and Shingoon Amin, Thompson, Jalen Green, they include Reed shepherd in that conversation even though he's not necessarily a rotation player right now. Their hope is that that superstar will be homegrown. These playoffs are going to be great experience for that young core and they're going to be a great evaluation tool for the front office and for IME Udoka. Udoka. And then look, if they do decide that they need to take a big swing in the trade market and there's an opportunity, they'll be selective. But if there's an opportunity that presents itself, they have an incredible amount of assets because they've done, you know, since James Harden forced a trade, they've done a great job of going through the rebuilding process, enduring a few years of pain and building back up from that to where now they've got a great young core and a ton of assets and they've used the assets they have to get more assets and better assets. But again, their hope is that this core can keep growing together and that they'll have a long Runway as a real contender.

[Tim Bontemps]

Yeah, no question. I mean, we talked the other day. I mean, Reed shepherd has been a bit player for them at best and was the third pick in the draft. And that's, that's not been. That's, that's a commentary on how deep the Rockets roster is as much as anything else. I mean, he's done a, he's, they've done a great job. They've got a ton of talent. Like you said, IME is instilled a defensive culture there. You know, they've had a great season. It's going to be. Yeah, and these playoffs are going to be great because it's going to be a great opportunity to see what this young group can do and what they can, you know, what they look like in that playoff crucible because that. You learn a lot about your team and your players in those kind of situations, and they can sort of evaluate it and decide where they want to go from there. But there's a ton to be excited about and, you know, the future is very bright as we enter. I mean, I guess. Is there a phase four? Do we just stay in phase three? Where, where does this sit on the, on the phase scale?

[Tim McMahon]

Well, they're, they're, they're certainly an ascending team. Still, no question. When I say superstar, I want to be very clear. I mean offensive engine, right? Because I think Amend Thompson is on his way to superstardom, but it might not be the traditional. Like, he might not be a 25 point per game score, like, you know, not, not a perfect comp. But Draymond Green is a guy who I would say has been a complimentary superstar throughout the course of his career. Dominant defensive player, you know, an offensive connector. You know, can Amend Thompson be a guy who you put the ball in his hands and he's the guy generating offense? Maybe. I mean, he's young, he's six, seven, he's extremely athletic. You know, the play he made in Boston to juke Jalen Brown out of his shorts and hit a game winner, that was awfully impressive.

[Tim Bontemps]

Defensive played on Steph Curry the other day was unbelievable, too.

[Tim McMahon]

There's no drop. Yeah. He will be an elite defender for years. He already is. And he will be for years to come. His offensive ceiling. I was asked an interesting question when I was down there in Houston. I was asked what could Russell Westbrook do at his peak that Thompson doesn't have a chance to be able to grow into? And that's an interesting question.

[Brian Windhorst]

He's so Russell Westbrook is the greatest athlete I've maybe ever seen in the NBA. His explosion and his leaping ability in person, I've gasped at when he was in his prime.

[Tim McMahon]

Thompson is bigger and he's that type of athlete.

[Tim Bontemps]

Yeah, I mean, he's in the Russ LeBron. He's in the Russ LeBron. Whatever. Whatever group of those guys. A man is right there with those guys.

[Brian Windhorst]

Yeah. So LeBron obviously, physically is one of one, one of very few. I mean, Kawhi is there too. But in terms of athletic explosion, quick twitch, muscle fibers, I've never seen a guy like Russ.

[Tim McMahon]

Yeah, and. But, but Thompson, A mint Thompson and a Saur for that matter. But speaking of the Rockets, Mint Thompson, that type of player, he does have ball skills. Look, does he have a jump shot? No, he doesn't. But frankly, Russ never had a consistent jumper either.

[Brian Windhorst]

LeBron didn't have a jump shot for six or seven years.

[Tim McMahon]

Right. And if he's going to be the ball in hand guy, you probably need to surround him with as much shooting as possible. I'll tell you, though, Reed Shepherd. You know, you talk to some people down in Houston, they'll say Reed shepherd probably has the highest offensive ceiling of anybody on that roster.

[Brian Windhorst]

The challenge with Reed shepherd is that he plays for Ime Udoka. And the standard that Ime Udoka has for putting a guy out there defensively is higher than your average. So if.

[Tim McMahon]

Which is why he doesn't right now.

[Brian Windhorst]

Right. So the Rockets are in the second seed in large part because IME has demanded such a high standard on the defensive end. If Reed shepherd was playing with another team, he might have gotten more time this year. But then he got hurt of the year.

[Tim McMahon]

More Hoop Collective podcast after this.

[Brian Windhorst]

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[Evan Mobley]

These young men are driven. They are prodigies, the savants, the ones we've been waiting for. Like Damian Lillard, for instance. He doesn't see guidance or mentorship. He's a leader. He isn't waiting for the baton to be passed to him. He's taking it for himself. He's relentless in a pursuit of greatness, always pushing to one up himself. He is accomplished, but far from satisfied. He embodies what it means to have an unstoppable drive and are shaking up the status quo in their community and beyond. And Damian Lillard drives a Toyota. A new generation of Toyota drivers are here and they want you to know one thing. You can't stop my drive.

[Brian Windhorst]

Okay, now joined by Evan Mobley, who's joining us from Cleveland. Congratulations on a terrific season. Evan, before we go anywhere, had a great year. I want to go back when I want to start with, I want to go back to last year, the last game of last year. You guys are playing against Boston in the playoffs. Donovan is injured, Jared Allen is injured. You guys are down three one. And you have in game five, one of the best games of your career. You, I think you had 33 points, a bunch of rebounds and everything. And you guys were outmanned. The Celtics were on their way to win the championship. You were missing two years, guys. You had this incredibly great game and it was like an incredible way to go into the off season because it was like, you know, this is what Evan can do, like in, in an elimination game, he delivers like this. Let me just ask you this, because you've had a bunch of games like that this year. What were you feeling after that game as you went into the off season?

[Evan Mobley]

Yeah, I mean, that game definitely propelled me into the season I'm having this year. Definitely boosted my confidence knowing what I can do out there on big states like that. And just all off season, just really working on my game, just trying to get better offensively and maintaining my defensive side as well from there. I mean, you see the season that we're having this year.

[Brian Windhorst]

So, yeah, so the off season. So obviously the coaching, the coach changed. I mean, first off, J.B. bickerstaff really helped you. I mean, that's something that some players have. Three coaches in three years. You had the same coach. What was your emotions when the coaching change happened? Because I know JB had really, you know, he really helped you succeed.

[Evan Mobley]

Yeah, he was a great coach. For the time being, the organization decided to go a separate way, and I think Kenny came in and did a great job. He talked with me initially when he first got hired and talked about how he's going to use me this year and stuff like that and helped me cater my offseason workouts to that. And when he came in, I mean, he had sets ready and have us already on the same page to get to go where we're going right now.

[Brian Windhorst]

Yeah, I feel like from training camp, you guys went down to Sarasota, which was an interesting choice. I'd never heard of an NBA team going to Sarasota, by the way. I came to training camp. I had never been to Sarasota before. It was my first visit. It was a beautiful facility at img. But, like, from training camp onward, they were very clear. They were like, we are going to really try to get the most out of Evan this year. And obviously that was a plan. Is that what. What, you know, Kenny was talking to you about in the summer and how did you process that?

[Evan Mobley]

Yeah, he was talking to me about that all summer, from the point of training camp. I mean, training camp was great. Everyone was competing at a high level. We're getting our sets in, figuring out how we're going to play, with me and Jay being two bigs in the game. And from there, I mean, we figured it out, and this guy was looking. Was the limit. So.

[Brian Windhorst]

Yeah, let me ask you about that, because you. You signed your big contract last summer. Congratulations, by the way. I know it's been a while, but should never forget.

[Tim Bontemps]

Appreciate it.

[Brian Windhorst]

You got a great contract. There was not a lot of people, me included, who weren't sure that you and Jarrett could work together and not have anything to do with either of you two. It's just, you know, the modern NBA, whatever. Even though you'd had success, and so you sign your big contract, and then like a month or so later, Jared signs his big contract. And so now the Cavs are super heavily invested in both of you. Like, did you guys talk about, hey, like, we're going to. We're going to make this work? Or, like, you know, because when you guys both sign, like, it's pretty clear they want this to work with Both of you. And it wasn't sure it was going to.

[Evan Mobley]

Yeah, for sure. We definitely talk with the coaching staff how we're going to make that happen. I think this year the biggest change was me being able to shoot the three ball. Adding that to my game and shooting it at a pretty high rate right now really helps face the floor. So me and him are not necessarily just all in the paint and the defense can just collapse. So me expanding my game, I feel like, helped both of us play on the court same time a lot more.

[Brian Windhorst]

Not just that, though. They're putting the ball in your hands a lot more, too. I mean, to say it's just your shooting isn't. I mean, because. Have you always been a good passer? Because I feel like you were. You were an underrated passer. And then this year they really wanted you to do that more.

[Evan Mobley]

Yeah, I mean, they putting the ball in my hand to playmaker. Whether that's me going to score or me to draw the help and kicking it out to our shooters. I mean, I just try to make the best play possible for our team. I feel like I'm one of the top playmakers on our team right now, and I feel like Garland and DG have done a great job just empowering me and giving me the ball for me to make plays.

[Brian Windhorst]

I thought about this during the season. The first play of the year was the first offensive possession of the year. They ran a play to give you the ball and let you go to work. I always thought that was like a symbol, like, this is the way we want it to go. I don't know if Kenny said that to you, but I just remember from the first night I was like, okay, this is going to be the way Evan's going to play this year.

[Evan Mobley]

Yeah, I just try to set the tone my first game this year and let the league know that it's going to be a different year this year and just try to be as aggressive as possible. So, I mean, first play the other day they ran into me and I just try to do what I've been practicing all summer now.

[Brian Windhorst]

You're the son of a coach. Your dad was your primary coach growing up, and he raised two NBA players, so he's got to be pretty proud of that. Do you still work a lot with your dad in the off season?

[Evan Mobley]

Yeah, me and him are really close. Even during the season, he loves to give his two cents on what he sees and all of that. So we have a great relationship. And just growing up with a dad that really Knew the game, I feel like, helped me a lot and helped me just understand the game and be able to adjust to the NBA game pretty fast.

[Brian Windhorst]

How does that work? The two cents? How do you receive those two cents? Is he like on the phone with you or what does he do on.

[Evan Mobley]

The phone or whenever we have combos in person, I mean, you just throw in little comments like, oh, you could shut that here, do this here. You know, just a little two cents here and there and. But right now he's on my coach anymore, so he tried to slack off a little bit, but, you know, he has to throw in his little comments.

[Brian Windhorst]

So do you think you're a good defensive player because you were raised by a coach? I mean, what. Where did that come from? Because, you know, so you're tall. Okay, There's a lot of tall guys, but not all tall guys like to play defense.

[Evan Mobley]

Yeah, I mean, honestly, I just had a natural knack for growing up most of my life. I think my biggest attribute is being this tall, abby, this longer wingspan, 74 wingspan, and my agility of being able to move like a guard. I mean, and in the race right now, I don't see anyone really having that capability to. To do that. So I feel like, me personally that, like, not many people can make plays as well as I could make a defensive play, just off of the attributes that I have.

[Brian Windhorst]

Yeah, well, that's one of the things that, you know, the Cavs build in their defense. They like, put you on an island all the time with small guys. Like, whether you like it or not, that's. You get that. You get that assignment. When you are preparing for a game, how do you. How do you prepare for an opponent defensively especially?

[Evan Mobley]

Usually just watch them before. Before the game, see their tendencies. That's the main thing. A lot of big guys have certain tendencies, a lot of guards that certain tendencies. Figure out who I'm going to be matched upon most of the game. Sometimes we switch a lot, sometimes we don't. So figure out what the game plan is and then from there cater my game to. To the. To the game plan.

[Brian Windhorst]

I kind of feel like that's one of the things that maybe the. The general fan doesn't understand is how much thinking you have to do as the back line of a defense, especially when you have certain guys that you're going to switch against and certain guys that you're not like. I feel like the average fan doesn't understand how complex NBA defense is.

[Evan Mobley]

Yeah, it's very complex. And how we run our Defense is kind of catered for. Me and J are too big to funnel a lot of the traffic to us, so we have to be there at all moments on our P's and Q's, at all moments. And a lot of times I'm in the back line like you said, and I got to read and see if he's going to come. If he doesn't come, I got to get back to my man. If he does come, I got to rotate over and it's a lot of this communication and talking to figure out what's best for the situation.

[Brian Windhorst]

You block a lot of shots, but you don't foul a lot. You're foul. The block shot ratio is like one of the best in the league. What does that come from?

[Evan Mobley]

Yeah, I think I'm top five in blocks right now and only foul like two times the game.

[Brian Windhorst]

So it's like you're like one and a half or like something small, almost two blocks a game and like two fouls a game. So basically it's about the same amount of fouls to blocks. Plus obviously you're challenging shots where you're not getting a block, but it kind of works like a block.

[Evan Mobley]

Yeah, I mean, I feel like I always just had a knack for blocks and being in the right spot at the right time. Whenever a defendant is in front of me, I just try to stay down, be sick and leave the floor. And from there, my length and size, like I was talking about earlier, usually deters them even if I don't get the block. So it might not show up on the stat sheet as a block, but definitely deterring them even shooting it.

[Brian Windhorst]

Sometimes I think for a guy who's an all star and a max player, I feel like I don't know you that well, but I feel like you're a relatively humble guy. So it's not really in your nature to say I'm defensive player of the year, whereas there's other guys out there going, I'm defensive player of the year. But, like, obviously your body of work speaks for itself. It's. It's kind of awkward to say, vote for me, but that's kind of where we're at now. Like, you know, your team is 60 something wins and, and you've been great. Like, is it a little bit strange to say, hey, please, please respect, like my game?

[Evan Mobley]

Yeah, I mean, it definitely is. I like to let my job on the court really talk. I'm not really too much of a talkative guy, but I mean, I think I definitely deserve this. Award just based on what we've been talking about this whole entire interview and my defensive prowess, I feel like it's the top tier from. From what I put out this year, this whole season, and I'm going to keep doing that. And I really can't wait for the playoffs to up even more.

[Brian Windhorst]

Does it bother you that you didn't win Rookie of the Year? You were like, you had such a brilliant rookie year, and then at the end, it's nothing against Scotty Barnes, obviously, but they, like, had a push at the end and made the playoffs, I think, and you guys didn't. And, like, does it. Well, first off, does it bother you that you didn't win? I mean, I thought you should have.

[Evan Mobley]

I mean, yeah, I mean, I definitely wanted to win that award. Try not to let it bother me too much, but definitely use it as motivation coming into the following years and just try to get better from it. And now we're on to new, better things and hopefully I can get this one.

[Brian Windhorst]

Yeah, because like, you kind of got penalized because your team wasn't better. It wasn't like you. That's why I remember it. Maybe. Maybe I remember it is, you know, that he was like, neck and neck. You were ahead most of the year, and then the Raptors had a better season. So, like, he got there and now you're the number one seed. In theory, you should. You should benefit from that. I don't know if that's going to work out the way, but, I mean, if it was fair, that's the way it would work out. Right? Right.

[Evan Mobley]

Yeah, that's. I'm on the opposite side this time, and. But I don't know. We'll see how it works out, but hopefully it works out in my favor.

[Brian Windhorst]

So. Look, it'd be crazy not to mention this. If you win defensive Player of the year or you make all NBA, which you have a strong case for both. It's like a $45 million bonus. Now, look, I am not going to sit here and say that I am accusing you of thinking about money all the time. Having said that, 45 million, I mean, you're already guaranteed a beautiful number, but it is a huge, huge thing. And, like, obviously the defensive player of the year, I mean, that carries with you for the rest of your life and everything, but, like, nobody would blame me if you said, hey, I think I'd like to get to 45 million. Like, I don't think anybody will blame you. Like, have you thought about that at all?

[Evan Mobley]

Yeah, I mean, definitely been A thought through my head for sure. But, I mean, the main thing is just getting what you deserve. I mean, I feel like I put out a great season so far on both ends, on the NBA terms and on the defense player of the year terms. And I feel like you should get what you deserve.

[Brian Windhorst]

I respect it. All right, before you go, help me out, who do you think are, like, some of the guys in the league who are the toughest to guard? Like, when you are preparing to. You're like this. I. Tonight is going to be a rough night. Like, who do you, like, look at and say, tonight, you know, I'm a strong defender. I got to be ready to face this guy?

[Evan Mobley]

Yeah.

[Brian Windhorst]

The.

[Evan Mobley]

The toughest defenders I would are offensive players. I would say is probably guys that like to drop out. It's definitely hard to guard those type of guys when they're trying to foul bait and get you in certain situations. You got to just be as disciplined as possible, and hopefully the refs don't call anything. But I would say any. Any guard or any being that that salivates or tries to draw a lot of fouls. That's part of. I would say, like, the artist to.

[Brian Windhorst]

Guard a good defensive player doesn't like guys try to get fouls. I think that's a. That's a great. It's a great answer. Evan, thank you so much for your time. Good luck on the awards voting and more importantly, good luck on the postseason. We'll. We'll catch up with you later.

[Evan Mobley]

All right, thank you. Appreciate it.

[Brian Windhorst]

Thanks again from Evan Mobile, the Cleveland Cavaliers. We're going to be hearing his name a lot in the upcoming weeks as the Cows try to make a playoff run. He's not over. You saw his face. There he is. Or if you listen, trust me, his face showed it. Not over. Not getting that Rookie of the year, so he doesn't show emotions very much, but he reacted when I brought that up. All right, we'll be right back here on the Hook Collector. All right. Welcome back to Collective. It's been a memorable show. McMahon and Bontems. You know, there's a. There's a few podcasts that I watched that were. Laker podcast, Laker fan podcasts, where they were recording because it was after a game with the Knicks where they were recording right when they found out about the.

[Tim Bontemps]

Oh, when the orchid happened.

[Brian Windhorst]

And it was hilarious because, you know, they all. They thought choms got hacked and. And watching and listening to it, like in, you know, with the knowledge of what was happening, it was really cool to watch. I didn't have that feeling about this one.

[Tim McMahon]

I didn't.

[Brian Windhorst]

I didn't like that. I didn't like that. Just because, you know, there were several.

[Tim Bontemps]

Memeable faces that you made that I hope the Internet latches on to.

[Brian Windhorst]

Apparently your react. I didn't. I wasn't watching you. I was watching the camera when you saw. But I'm going to have to go back and look and see. Apparently the producers, Rafa and Jackson said your face was interesting.

[Tim Bontemps]

So I had a good face.

[Tim McMahon]

Gone, I guess. Good.

[Brian Windhorst]

Interesting, I guess. We'll learn more about this in the coming hours. Thank you for watching, listening to Collective. Thank you for putting up with us, dealing with this in real time and understanding that happened on Tuesday afternoon slash morning out here in LA. Thank you to Jackson Arafa. Thank you to McMahon and Bonsems. We'll talk to you later this week.

[Tim McMahon]

Adios, amigos.

[Brian Windhorst]

Thank you. Oh, and thank you to Evan Mobley. Okay, now do it again.

[Tim McMahon]

Adios, amigos. And that includes Michael Malone and Calvin Booth.