← Brian Windhorst & The Hoop Collective
Brian Windhorst & The Hoop Collective
MAJOR Injuries For Knicks & 76ers + Harden Playoff Struggles Continue & Some Stunning Situations Developing In The League
01:18:39
Hoop Collective: MAJOR Injuries For Knicks & 76ers + Harden Playoff Struggles Continue & Some Stunning Situations Developing In The League
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- [00:00]
Brian Windhorst
Thrivent believes money is more than numbers. It's a way to care for the people, causes and community you love. That's why Thrivent brings together a unique combination of financial services and generosity programs, offering advice, investments and insurance to help you plan your finances, while creating opportunities to give back along the way. Through generosity programs that offer resources to fund service projects or to direct charitable funds, Thrivent makes it easier to turn your values into action and support what matters to you. With more than 120 years of experience and as a Fortune 500 company, Thrivent continues to serve individuals, families and communities across the country. To learn more, visit thrivent.com thrivent where money means More. Hello. Welcome to the HOOPP Collective podcast. We talk about the NBA which we are doing literally in the middle of the night. It is the middle of the night on the East Coast. I just got in half of this podcast was taped like I don't know what, 15 hours ago in Los Angeles.
- [01:03]
Eric Bontemps
Now I'm, now I'm in Omaha 14 hours.
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Brian Windhorst
Whatever. It was 1616.
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Eric Bontemps
I did the math run. It's my, my turn to do the math. Wrong.
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Brian Windhorst
Anyway, joining us from joining us from New York City where in a couple hours he's going to head to Philadelphia for game three Timbu Temps.
- [01:17]
Eric Bontemps
Hello everybody.
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Brian Windhorst
Joining us from Oklahoma City at the Pacom center where tonight he watched The Thunder go up two zero on on the Los Angeles Lakers is Ban McMahon.
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John McMahon
Howdy partners.
- [01:28]
Brian Windhorst
Yeah, I think that the most interesting game that happened in the NBA tonight took place in Detroit where the Pistons went up 20 with a 10 point win over the Cavs. I will just say that I thought Cade Cunningham had a terrific fourth quarter. This type of game has played out. There's been a lot of games this year where the Pistons have played out exactly this way where sort of a slugfest for 38 to 40 minutes and then Cade Cunningham carries the team down the stretch and he did so in this game he had 25 points and Tobias Harris, who I think what I heard the stat was that during the regular season he didn't have more than two consecutive 20 point games and now he has seven consecutive 20 point games and he has been a huge lift because Jalen Duran's been in an offensive slump and and Tobias Harris has been awesome. But Bontemps, the Pistons have won five in a row, beat elimination three times. They're looking very impressive. But I think the overwhelming sentiment if you watch this game or you've watched this series is how disappointing the Cavs have been, particularly James Harden and to a lesser extent, but still significant, at least significantly, Donovan Mitchell.
- [02:41]
Eric Bontemps
And you know what, I'm actually going to flip that around because there's going to be a lot of discussion about how bad James Harden was in this game. And James Harden was bad. He was very bad in the game. He was 3 for 13 from the field, took one shot in the fourth quarter, was basically non existent. I got A stat from Stats Williams Pistons were 7 for 7 on drives and James Harden was the defender, including 5 for 5 in the second half. He's the first player to allow an opponent to be 7 or 7 or better on drives in a playoff game since player tracking began back in the 2013-14 season.
- [03:16]
Brian Windhorst
Oh my God.
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Eric Bontemps
Obviously that is bad, right? However, if you take a step back, let's go back to the last round. Raptors, Cavs. The best player in the series by a mile was Scotty Barnes, right? First two games of this series, the best player in the series by a mile has been Cade Cunningham. And when the Cavs traded for Donovan Mitchell, I think you'd agree. Brian, we've talked about this before. The original blueprint for how this was supposed to go was that Evan Mobley was supposed to develop into the best player on the Cavs. If this was going to truly be a team that was a championship level team. Evan Mobley, who's on a 30% rose rule max, had one rebound in 36 minutes in this playoff game today and was non existent in the game.
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John McMahon
Okay?
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Eric Bontemps
And that, that vision of Evan Mobley becoming the best player on the Cavs has not happened. That has to this point failed. So if the Cavs are going to be a championship level team in this iteration of the Cavs, Donovan Mitchell needs to be the best player and needs to be the best player on the court. And when they traded for James Harden back in February, we all know what James Harden's playoff track record is. He's going to have duds in the playoffs. But the vision of the Cavs was we bring in James Harden who is a more durable player who's going to be available in the playoffs. We don't know if Darius Carlin is going to be available in the playoffs and Donovan Mitchell is going to be a first team all NBA caliber player and is going to be the guy driving the team forward and down the stretch of this game. Yes, Donovan Mitchell had 31 points. His line looks fine. He was 2 for 7 in the fourth quarter. He got outplayed down the stretch by Kate Cunningham and he has not been close to the best player in either series. And if the Raptors didn't have half their team out and have no offensive firepower, they might not even got to the second round. The Cavs. So, yes, James Harden was awful, and that will probably be the dominant storyline coming out of this game for most people. But for me, while the series isn't over yet and the playoffs aren't over yet for the Cavs, so this can still change as we sit here right now, I think what you have to say is this division of this entire Cavs era has been around either Evan Mobley becoming the number one guy on the title team or Donovan Mitchell being good enough to do that. And The Cavs are over two on that. It's why they're over. It's why they're down.02 in the series. And it's why if they don't win this series, I think in particular, there's a lot of big questions coming this summer about what the Cavs look like and what they're going to try to do. And so to me, this isn't about James Harden. It's about Donovan Mitchell not being good enough so far. And he, I mean, we texted about it in the fourth quarter watching the game like he was just not good enough in this game, got outplayed down the stretch by Cade Cunningham. And to me, that's why the Cavs lost more than any other McMahon.
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Brian Windhorst
I am not in position to dispute any of that.
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John McMahon
No. And listen, Donovan is wearing, you know, he's got a heavy weight on his shoulders as maybe the most accomplished player in the league who's not been to a conference finals.
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Eric Bontemps
Well, and there's, there's the guy who was one MVP who didn't play in Game 2 of the series I'm covering, I think would probably be ahead of him on that list.
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John McMahon
Okay, fair enough.
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Eric Bontemps
Those are probably the two guys. Yeah, I would say.
- [06:22]
John McMahon
And they're both. And it's a heavy burden on both of them. Right, That's a really heavy burden on both of them. But look, man, we're not just going to skip past James Harden because you get James Harden, you make that trade in the middle of the season, which it was a pretty disappointing first half of the season for the Cavaliers. So you make that trade thinking, okay, hey, let's be aggressive. Let's make a move that can bolt us back into or into contender status. You know, they were exposed as fraud contenders last year despite winning 60 whatever games. But that was always like a little weird because let's be honest, man. Like you say, a checkered history for James Harden in the playoffs. That's very polite. Some of these stats are nuts. This guy has more playoff games with four turnovers or more than 30 point performances. He's had 20 playoff games where he has shot 25% or worse from the floor. I mean, he's a bad playoff player. It's. And, like, when's the last time James Harden had a full series of good performances?
- [07:37]
Brian Windhorst
Well, he doesn't have to have a full series, but he has to have some.
- [07:42]
John McMahon
Can you have, like. I mean, this is, this is abysmal. And look, here's the thing.
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Brian Windhorst
I don't know what grade you would assign Donovan. Donovan tonight. I, I, you know, but Bontem sounds like pretty low. I mean, he did. He had 31, but it was not.
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Eric Bontemps
I mean, yeah, I mean, look again.
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John McMahon
James has turning playoff games in his career with more turnovers than buckets.
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Eric Bontemps
Yes.
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Brian Windhorst
It's a, It's a very indicting stat. It is. There is a little bit of an asterisk on that because he's had a lot of games where he scored a lot of points but hasn't had a lot of baskets because he gets fouled so much. So you can have a decent game. Having more trips.
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John McMahon
I would say. I would say. I would say, well, pretty man.
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Brian Windhorst
But I don't. I'm not. I'm not in the mood to defend him right now.
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John McMahon
And he used to get fouled a lot, but now, like. Yeah, and this, this Piston seems tough because they've got, like, Ron Holland's playing a lot in this series. Asar Thompson's a freak athlete. They got these long, young, energetic, aggressive athletes, and he can't.
- [08:37]
Eric Bontemps
He can't get by them.
- [08:38]
Brian Windhorst
He can't do anything. Listen, man, the, the, the. The remaining teams in the Eastern Conference, you know, there's only three other ones, but, like, they should all be pissed off at the magic. They had these. And now the Pistons look like the team that won 60 games again. Their defense is, you know, bearing its fangs. Like, there, there's possessions where the Cavs will run two or three actions and they just run into a wall, and then the Cavs just freeze up and they'll have possessions where they'll just, like, dribble around because they're, They're. The Pistons have them on tilt. But, you know, for two days, everybody talked about how, you know, everybody spouted off of the number of turnovers that Donovan and Harden had. And, you know, I assume the Cavs had some sort of intense film session and shoot around talking about turnovers and they come out knowing how important it is to avoid turnovers. And they turned the ball over like six times in the first six minutes. It was like, you gotta be kidding. They actually cleaned it up a little bit after that.
- [09:39]
John McMahon
We did.
- [09:39]
Brian Windhorst
But you know, like I just going to say, as somebody who's watched the Cavs all year long, they're not a good hang, you know, like you watch them and they're not a fun team to watch even when things are, you know, I guess when they're three pointers are going, which you know is, that typically happens. But like, it's not a, it's not an enjoyable team to watch even when they're playing well. And look, they could, you know, Kenny Atkinson could look at you in the eye and go, listen, you can nitpick everything you want on us. We were 7 of 32 on threes tonight and they had a lot of very clean three point looks that they just missed. And they could say to you, you know, I don't know what the expected shot quality was, but they could say to you that our expected shot quality had us winning this game. And if they just, you know, if they go 12 of 32 instead of 7 of 32, it's 1:1. Like, I cannot deny that. And they can go home where they have been undefeated in the postseason, and Instead of going 1232, they could go 1632 and they could win by 15 in two days. But as Bontemps was saying, the underlying process, the underlying, you know, what you're asking Evan Mobley, what you're asking Harden, what you're asking Mitchell is not performing well. They have played seven consecutive substandard games.
- [11:04]
Eric Bontemps
That's what I was just going to get to. You've been citing the stats since Game 2 of the Raptors series. So I, so I pulled him up. So over the last seven games, Donovan Mitchell is averaging 22 points on 21 shots. He's shooting 41% from the field.
- [11:17]
Brian Windhorst
Nope.
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Eric Bontemps
He's shooting 29% from three on almost nine attempts a game. I think the most damning stat is he's taking 2.7 free throw attempts per game.
- [11:27]
Brian Windhorst
And that's inflated because he had nine
- [11:29]
John McMahon
tonight after, after, oh, you know, I don't flop and all that kind of stuff.
- [11:34]
Eric Bontemps
And he's got 2.4 assists per game and 2.7 turnovers per game over the, like. James Harden's stats are also bad. I mean, he's averaging he's averaging 18, six and five and a half and he's shooting 38% from the field and 27% from three. He has five and a half turnovers like those. Those are bad. Those are bad. But again, this team is constructed for again, originally Evan Mobley needed to become the best player as a 6 10, Super Athletic can do all sorts of stuff player and he's a very good player. But he has not become that good of a player to the level of being the best player on the team. Or you trade for James Harden to give Donovan Mitchell less of a load to carry because you need him to be the guy when you get to this time of the year. And like I said, Scotty Barnes was outclassed everybody on the court in the first round. And you watch these first two games and Kate Cunningham looks like a first team all B a guy who's carrying his team down the stretch of these games and Donovan Mitchell has not played to the level and that set everything else aside. That's why it's 02 for the Cavs right now. And it could easily flip. They could go home. They could make shots. Like you said, they could still win the series.
- [12:44]
Brian Windhorst
The Pistons are making threes right now for the first six games of that magic series. The Pistons three point shooting was atrocious. They have had three relatively good games in a row. I believe Duncan Robinson has 19 threes in the last five games. And so when Duncan Robinson is making his shots and we know that he is capable of making 19 and 5 and then he is capable of making 5, well, not 5 and 19, but he, he, he can, he can run hot and cold. So you know they have a lot of things going their way. But Asar Thompson is absolutely giving the Cavs hell on the defensive end. He is just taking the ball from James.
- [13:22]
John McMahon
The Cavs are the, or the, the Pistons are just out toughing the Cavs. And I, I bet you JB Bickerstaff's enjoying the series so far.
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Eric Bontemps
Yes, I have a little doubt of that.
- [13:31]
Brian Windhorst
But JB would probably say, I didn't hear his postgame tonight, but he'd probably say two games at home doesn't mean anything.
- [13:38]
Eric Bontemps
And so yeah, the series is, the series is not over. But the formula has to change for the Cavs because they have wheezed their way through the first nine games of the playoffs. They are now four and five in those games and they are the one team in the league this year that was in the second apron. That is a team that is supposed to be a championship caliber team and they have not looked anything like a championship caliber team through their first nine games at the playoffs. And that starts to me and ends with their best player who has just not been good enough. More Hoop Collective Podcast after this Thrivent
- [14:13]
Brian Windhorst
believes money is more than numbers. It's a way to care for the people, causes and community you love. That's why Thrivent brings together a unique combination of financial services and generosity programs offering advice, investments and insurance to help you plan your finances while creating opportunities to give back along the way. Through generosity programs that offer resources to fund service projects or to direct charitable funds, Thrivent makes it easier to turn your values into action and support what matters to you. With more than 120 years of experience and as a Fortune 500 company, Thrivent continues to serve individuals, families and communities across the country. To learn more, visit thrivent.com thrivent where money means More this message is brought to you by Apple Pay Checking out online Apple Pay makes it simple. Apple Pay is accepted on millions of websites and apps and counting. Just look for the Apple Pay button almost anywhere you do your online shopping. When you tap the Apple Pay button to check out, you don't have to worry about filling out any forms with your shipping address or payment method. Instead, use your pre saved information and checkout in seconds. Need to make a change? You can easily review and change your credit card information and shipping details right in the payment sheet. Once you're ready, just double click the side button, authenticate your purchase with face ID and you're done. Whether you're shopping online for everyday needs or treating yourself, skip the hassle. Shop with Apple Pay terms Apply hey, it's Wendy here. Are you looking to rebound from your high interest credit card debt? A SOFI Personal loan could help consolidate your debt with a SOFI personal loan into one low monthly payment. And you could save money on interest over time and with as soon as the same day funding, you could hit the ground running ASAP. Apply today with no fees required@sofi.com Debt Rebound Loans originated by Sofi Bake NA member FDIC Terms and conditions apply. NMLS 696891 Fast Funds terms apply@sofi.com Debt Reverb. To Oklahoma City Breaking News A team
- [16:23]
John McMahon
that lost in Oklahoma City's mad at the Refs.
- [16:25]
Brian Windhorst
So here's the thing I I want to well, I thought. I'm not saying that LeBron's post game tonight should be studied because he was kind of terse. As you can imagine. You know, he's probably not real thrilled, but I respected the hell out of the way LeBron handled his post game tonight. Because while JJ Redick was bitching about the officiating, while Austin Reaves was bitching about the officiating, which. Everybody who plays them, and I understand why people get frustrated. LeBron, he got asked three questions. He refused to comment on the officiating. Okay, that's number one. He refused to comment on what J.J. redick said about the officiating. Number two. And then he got asked about the key moment in the game, which we'll talk about in a minute here, McMahon, which was when Shea Gildas Alexander went out with fouls and the Thunder went on like, what was it, 22 to 4 or something like that.
- [17:17]
John McMahon
20, 20, 24.
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Eric Bontemps
22 to 4 plus 18.
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Brian Windhorst
And. And he was asked about that. And LeBron said, I'm summarizing. He said, they're pretty good when Shay's out of the game normally, right? And the reporter was like, yeah. He's like, well, there you go.
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John McMahon
They're pretty good no matter who's on the floor.
- [17:34]
Brian Windhorst
Right? And I. It was just. It was a very mature way to handle a situation. Don't bitch about the officiating.
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John McMahon
He did tell me that during the game. He didn't even.
- [17:45]
Brian Windhorst
That's fine. Yes, but. That's fine.
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John McMahon
But look, man, in two games here, Shea had probably his worst performance of the season. In Game 1, the Thunder won by 18. And, you know, he got in foul trouble and had to go ride the bench for the vast majority, or the last, like, 10:36, I think, of the third. Of the third quarter, and the Thunder win by, I believe, 18 again. And that third quarter, think about it, Shea's over there waving a towel. He picked up his fourth foul 86 seconds into the second half.
- [18:19]
Brian Windhorst
It was a flagrant foul.
- [18:20]
John McMahon
And we had. The Thunder challenged it. They're like, yeah, it's overturned. It's actually not a foul. It's a flagrant foul. But. And, you know, Jalen Williams obviously is out, which, you know, ideally, when Shay's on the floor, Jalen Williams is your primary initiator, dude. AJ Mitchell, this is a kid who, as a rookie last year wasn't even in their playoff rotation. That was because he got hurt and he had the toe surgery and just never got back in the rotation. But he wasn't even in their playoff rotation last year. Here he is filling in for Jalen Williams in the starting lineup, filling in for Shea as their primary initiator in the entire third quarter. The guy has 20 points, five assists tonight. You know, just, just calm, cool and you know, poised operating the offense that entire third quarter, you know, Jared McCain, I'm not sure, I'm not sure that Daryl Morey did sell high on him. I think we might need to question that one.
- [19:21]
Brian Windhorst
But this is, he's got seven threes in the two games. Jared McCain, I think he, in 18
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John McMahon
minutes tonight, he had 18 points on 11 shots. You know, and Shay's like, or, I'm sorry, Chet was like, you know, he basically said every time he shoots it, you know, I think it's going in. He's like, I know it's going up because he, listen, he's coming in there gunning and hey, he got some swag about him. He hit a dagger three and he jogs by doing the little three point celebration and he runs right by JJ Redick and he just turns, he's kind of staring him down a little bit.
- [19:53]
Brian Windhorst
That's Duke on Duke crime right there.
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John McMahon
Duke on Duke crime. But dude, again, he's the 10th man in the rotation. He goes on eight point flurry in like two and a half minutes as the lead is surging into double figures. By the way, the best player in this series so far is Chet Holmgren. Chet has been all around awesome, really all playoffs long, but especially in this series. And then, you know, third quarter, four seven turnovers, turn them into 11 points, like the depth of this team was on full display. And then that's just like, you know, when, when they are at their best defensively, you're not going to beat them.
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Eric Bontemps
You're not.
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Brian Windhorst
Can you imagine two people who have, who could have more different personality types than Jared McCain and JJ Redick? I mean, I mean, talk about not being matches for each other. Yeah, one guy is, he's just really like in between surly and seething on the scale. And Jared McCain is literally, he's either shooting baskets or dancing. Those are his two states. These two guys are not compatible.
- [21:01]
John McMahon
After he shoots a lot of times because he's knocking him down.
- [21:04]
Brian Windhorst
The other thing LeBron said after, you know, LeBron got banged around in this game, he, he, he hurt his hip in the first half, he landed on his wrist in the second half and he got out. And again, let me just tell you a guy who's played in 250 playoff
- [21:16]
Eric Bontemps
games or whatever, I think it's more than that.
- [21:19]
Brian Windhorst
He, he, they asked him about his injury. I wish I could tell you who asked, but I, I, you know, a, a, a, a Quality Laker beat writer asked about his injury.
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John McMahon
Yeah, probably somebody who wanted the checks put up individually. Dinner last night. Go on.
- [21:33]
Brian Windhorst
Anyway. And he's like, I'll be fine. That's the thing. Like this. This is the whole LeBron's whole thing. You know, I'm not saying every interview ever, but, you know, he's, you know, if you ask him about an injury, he'll be like, I'm available.
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John McMahon
Yeah.
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Eric Bontemps
And.
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John McMahon
And by the way, Austin Reeves was obviously irate at the officiating tonight. Like, it was a. I've not seen. I look out there and it's like a team meeting in mid court. Then I realized Austin Reeves is, like, nose to nose with John Goldberg.
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Eric Bontemps
Did you see what he said after the gaming, man? So I watched. I've not seen his quote.
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John McMahon
He felt like he was disrespected.
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Eric Bontemps
Yeah. His issue was he. He thought John Goble disrespected him in that jump ball. I guess he got his face and yelled at him. And Austin said the only reason he thought he didn't get a technical foul on that was because Goble knew he was in the wrong. And so he went up to. And I could see. I happened to see the video because I was watching the game. At the end of the game, they then zoom in on Reaves talking to him. And I could see him saying, that was disrespectful to Goble. And I was like, oh, that's kind of a weird thing to say right after the game. But I guess that. Yeah, that was what he was saying to him.
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Brian Windhorst
The Thunder. The Thunder beats you on the court and they get you out of your game and out of your head because you're so obsessed about the calls.
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John McMahon
Yeah. And it really is. It's to their advantage.
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Brian Windhorst
I'm not debating that. The whistle that they have established is not an add. An advantage, but you cannot play into it. You can. You just cannot. Like, if you're going to climb the mountain and beat them, you're going to have to manage the way that they play you. Just, you know, it's just like. It's the same thing with, like, Harden and Mitchell, gentlemen. You cannot turn the freaking ball over. And they turn it over like half their first 12. You cannot fall into the trap about. So what Austin Reese got angry about was that there was this jump ball in the second half. Okay. And like, they were like, everybody on the court was like eight year olds. Well, first off, Chet Holmgren, like, was telling the referee, don't let Jackson Hayes cheat on the jump ball, right? And then John Goble, the referee, told Jackson Hayes, don't cheat on the jump ball. And that upset. And then everybody's trying to get lined up and everyone's trying to get in front of everybody. And every, you know, it's like, hey, just go handle your business. Stop worrying about the officiating. Every five seconds.
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John McMahon
There was. It was the timeout right after that. LeBron is letting one ref have it, Reeves is letting Goble have it, and then go get some Reeves, and then Daganault lets him have it.
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Eric Bontemps
Well, and it should be said, it should be said that Chad Holmgren flopped on like a play four or five into the game. JJ Redick challenges it, wins the challenge. It was a very low value challenge in the game. Franco foul and foul on Deandre Ayton. But still he. He wins the challenge for Chet flopping. Then later in the game, Chet goes down the lane, he gets fouled on a bucket. The entire Thunder bench is waving for them to review it for a flagrant when Chet again flopped in the lane and whipped his head back. When he get anywhere near the head, like, this whole game was team guys on both sides trying to get calls. You had Shay and Reeves get tied up twice. Che gets a flaggered foul on one. Reeds get reviewed for flag and foul on another one. Yes. Like, was a. There were 10,000 reviews. It was.
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Brian Windhorst
So look, everybody, I love a lot
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John McMahon
of reviews on an 830local TV.
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Eric Bontemps
Awesome.
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Brian Windhorst
So look, you know that this is what the Thunder are going to do.
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Eric Bontemps
Yes.
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Brian Windhorst
So just deal with it.
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John McMahon
And they are completely unapologetic about it.
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Brian Windhorst
Yeah.
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John McMahon
And they're like, okay, you guys want to debate and discuss officiating? Cool. You know, we're going to hoop and we hope you're distracted.
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Brian Windhorst
Exactly. With every complaint about officiating that takes your focus off of the challenge of the Thunder. You are giving them an edge now. And I'm going to tell you, this is the thing. Austin Reese played at least scoring wise.
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Eric Bontemps
Oh, he was awesome.
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John McMahon
Offensive.
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Brian Windhorst
The best playoff game of his career tonight.
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John McMahon
Yeah. Coming off of game one dud. He was really, really good offense.
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Brian Windhorst
He went from three of 16 to 10 of 16. Hit, I think three threes had 31 points. But the histrionics of the game had him totally. His mind totally on some. On other stuff.
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Eric Bontemps
Well, in six assists, five turnovers on a game worth minus 20, like, shots. And he hit shots like, obviously he played much better from that standpoint. And he's obviously coming back from the oblique in the middle of the playoffs. It's a difficult situation against a tremendous defense. But yeah, when you turn the ball over against this Thunder team, it's just a bucket every time.
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Brian Windhorst
21 turnovers tonight.
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John McMahon
These teams have played six times now this season. The Thunder have won all six. And five of them have been by like 15 plus points.
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Eric Bontemps
Yeah, well, 26 to 14 in points off turnovers too. Like, I mean, I mean, yeah, you're not winning.
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Brian Windhorst
The spreads on these two games were 15 and a half and they covered them both.
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John McMahon
Coming to both.
- [26:33]
Brian Windhorst
And Without Shay, Shea's 40 points in two games. Yeah, the guy averaged 30, so.
- [26:41]
Eric Bontemps
And the Lakers competed hard in this game. Like they, they were right. They were winning in the third quarter.
- [26:45]
Brian Windhorst
They played a good game plan. They've been trapping Shea. They've been getting him into foul trouble. Like they've, they, they, they, they, they've done, they've done well.
- [26:55]
John McMahon
The Lakers are up five when Shay goes to the bench early in the third quarter with foul trouble. When Shay checks back in to start the fourth, OKC's got a 13 point lead.
- [27:04]
Eric Bontemps
Yeah, yeah, yeah. I mean, it's just not, you know,
- [27:06]
John McMahon
and then, and look, and then the, the Lakers got back in it. It was a five point game with seven minutes left. Chet hit a three where when he let it go, it was over eight. It was like jab, step, jab, step, jab, step. Three. When you let it go, I was like, that's a bad shot.
- [27:19]
Eric Bontemps
Swish.
- [27:20]
John McMahon
You know, then he gets fouled the next possession, knocks down a couple free throws and then it's double figures the rest of the way.
- [27:24]
Eric Bontemps
Yes, very impressive.
- [27:26]
Brian Windhorst
It's a tough mountain to climb, beating these guys four out of seven.
- [27:30]
John McMahon
I mean, they're, they're 60 in the playoffs and they've all been double digit wins except for one. That was the closeout in Phoenix when there was a garbage time layup with like 20 seconds left to cut it to nine.
- [27:40]
Eric Bontemps
Yeah, I mean, I mean, look, they, they're the best team. They should win the title. They're, they're looking like it so far. We'll see what happens. Can have injuries, they could lose. Doesn't mean the best team doesn't always win, but.
- [27:53]
John McMahon
Well, they also. Yes, they do. And they very likely will run into the one team that has whooped their butts this year.
- [28:02]
Brian Windhorst
Next round. We'll see. The series is 1 1. Just. We'll see.
- [28:04]
John McMahon
I likely, I made no guarantees.
- [28:06]
Brian Windhorst
We'll talk about that later. All right. So the Knicks announced today Hamstring injury for OG Anunoby, listed as questionable.
- [28:17]
John McMahon
How was that? Like, what?
- [28:19]
Brian Windhorst
First off, I would like to show me a hamstring strain where a guy has played the next game, I suppose.
- [28:25]
Eric Bontemps
Well, I will.
- [28:25]
John McMahon
Aaron Gordon. And it was terrifying. Aaron Gordon, Game seven here last year.
- [28:30]
Brian Windhorst
I don't know. I haven't, you know, it's played.
- [28:32]
Eric Bontemps
Probably should be in air quotes with that one, given he was.
- [28:35]
Brian Windhorst
Well, that's the thing I have to say. Bontemps was sitting right next to me. One of the strangest things I've ever seen covering a playoff series was two years ago in Game seven at the Garden, where after missing the. That was when the. The Knicks got ahead of the Pacers 20 in that series and OG Anunoby got hurt. Hurt his hamstring in game two.
- [28:57]
Eric Bontemps
Same scenario.
- [28:58]
Brian Windhorst
He missed the next four games. The Pacers won three of the four, and they're trying to win in the Garden to win game seven. And OG is going to play in this game. And I'll never forget Bontemps. OG comes out for warmups, and I was like, do you. You don't think they're gonna play him? Like, if they're not gonna play him? And them playing them. Playing him in that game was absolutely jaw dropping.
- [29:22]
John McMahon
Well, what'd he play? Like, four minutes? And like,
- [29:26]
Eric Bontemps
he couldn't move.
- [29:27]
Brian Windhorst
He gave up, like, 12 points. And Pasco Siakam, after the game, he was his, you know, old teammate from Toronto. He basically said, I felt bad, but we had to go at him. Of course, I'm just saying that that was two years ago. And no one's questioning OG's toughness.
- [29:42]
John McMahon
No, toughness has nothing. If you have a strained hamstring, you cannot play NBA basketball.
- [29:48]
Brian Windhorst
So, okay, so he. He missed four. I guess he technically only missed four games, but he wouldn't have been able to play for weeks after. After that.
- [29:57]
John McMahon
Is it. Is it too much to say he's been their best player in these playoffs?
- [30:00]
Brian Windhorst
No, I would say he's been a top five player in the league.
- [30:02]
Eric Bontemps
He's been unbelievable in these playoffs, like, unbelievably good. And he was unbelievably good in the first two games of this series. Like, the Sixers have no answer for him. I mean, I thought it would be a matchup problem coming to the series for Philly. I underestimated how much of a matchup problem it would be. He's been unreal in these first two games, and he was unreal against Atlanta. I mean, he whipped the Hawks the second half series.
- [30:25]
Brian Windhorst
He's averaging in the whole playoffs. I'll tell you what he averaged in the first two games in a second here, but in the whole playoffs, eight games, he's averaging 21 points, seven rebounds, seven and a half rebounds shooting 62% overall, 54% on three in the two games on this series. Let me just say real quick, he's also defending like without Mitchell Robinson and all the foul trouble that they had. He was playing center, he was playing defensive center late in the game. In game one he had 18 points. In game two he had 24 points. He's 16 of 25 shooting in the series.
- [31:10]
Eric Bontemps
Yeah, I mean he's, he's been incredible.
- [31:12]
Brian Windhorst
He had four steals in game two before he got hurt.
- [31:14]
Eric Bontemps
OG OG is playing the best basketball of his career by a lot. And he, he's a people people when they, obviously we spend time around these guys. OG is a gigantic person. Like he, I know he's a small forward so you. Like, he doesn't maybe necessarily look like it on, on TV, but like he's like a LeBron sized wing like he is.
- [31:36]
John McMahon
Yeah, he looks like a tight end.
- [31:38]
Eric Bontemps
Yes. I mean he's like a legit 250 or 260 and fast as hell and can guard like he can. If Jawalam be tries to post up OG, OG can guard him. Like there's not a lot of wings who can do that. Like I voted in first team all defense because he is a perimeter player who can guard basically anybody on the court in any game. And he, he's been unbelievable. And, and look, it seems like it's not a horrible hamstring strain, which is good. But again, to your point, Brian, if you have to leave a game with a muscle injury and if you watch the play, which I'm sure most people listen to, the pod have seen it, he ran down the lane and you could tell right away when he grabbed at his hamstring running down the court when it happened. That is not a, you come back in a day or two injury. So.
- [32:27]
John McMahon
No, I mean if, if it's a grade one hamstring strain, that's what Jalen Williams is sitting with. And you know, he did it in game two of the last series. They had a week off between series and he's still, he's still not, not only is he not back, he's not like you know, playing in the stay ready game yet or the high intensity game, inter squad scrimmage type thing.
- [32:49]
Eric Bontemps
Right. And the thing the Knicks have to Be, I think, extraordinarily careful about with this is if OG comes back and hurts this thing again, he's probably done for the playoffs.
- [32:58]
John McMahon
Exactly.
- [32:59]
Eric Bontemps
And their chance, like, look, they've got a real chance to go to the finals. And yeah, like, look, I didn't think the finals are going seven games last year. You get there, if they have Jalen Brunson, they got him. They got Carl Town, so they'll have a chance. They need him to get to the end. So they got to be extraordinarily careful with a guy with a history of muscle injuries with this.
- [33:18]
Brian Windhorst
So you got to act like you're trying to win the whole thing.
- [33:21]
Eric Bontemps
That's right. So to me, it would be insane to play him in either of these games in Philly. I, I just, I, I don't understand
- [33:29]
John McMahon
how he's listed as questionable.
- [33:30]
Eric Bontemps
Well, listen, we, we're, we're pat. We're through the looking glass on that. We had Aaron Gordon listed as questionable. Franz Vogler, listen, is questionable. We had Emmanuel Quick, listen, is questionable. Like, we're just. Everybody's questionable now. They're like, fine. Like, okay, yes. Got a lot. You might as well just say lower body injury at this point. Like you said, Brian. Yeah.
- [33:47]
John McMahon
Speaking of hamstrings, by the way, Luka Doncic is not questionable. And interesting. He talked to the media and said, oh, by the way, Doc said it was going to be an eight week injury.
- [33:55]
Brian Windhorst
And you did the whole thing.
- [33:57]
John McMahon
Won't be seeing you next season, bud.
- [33:59]
Eric Bontemps
Yeah, yeah.
- [34:01]
Brian Windhorst
Luca is. It's every 10 steps I walk in Los Angeles, people are like, when is Luca coming back? So I'm so training camp. You know, I'm not pleased that he has such a serious injury, but at least he came out and said, they told me eight weeks, right. And I understand why he would not say that when it happened. And I understand why there's subterfuge with, you know, in the middle of a series, but it is what it is.
- [34:28]
Eric Bontemps
I also understand why he's saying it now because they're drawn dead anyway and he shouldn't be rushing back and trying to play right now. He just shouldn't be. No, and that goes back to the OG thing because look, in that, that game two, the Sixers could really live to regret Game two, where they had several wide open threes in the final few minutes, by the way, just like the Celtics did in the final few minutes of Game 7, where they didn't make any shots and the Sixers won because of it. Sixers missed all these threes late, wide open, clean looks. Josh Hart hits a open three on the wing. Jalen Brunson hits a couple of tough contested jumpers. The Knicks win the game. They go up 2 0. If it was 11 right now and OG Anunoby had this hamstring strain, it couldn't play. It would be a Defcon 1 situation for the Knicks. But now, if they could get one of these games in Philly especially, which they certainly could, at least one, but let's say they can get one, then you don't necessarily need to even have OG play in Game 5. Maybe you get through the whole series without him playing, you get a couple weeks. Maybe he's ready to go for the conference finals. Maybe you can even manage the beginning of that series. But to me, whether he's quote unquote able to play or not, I don't think he will be in the next two games. He can't play in Philadelphia. And you got to try to get through this. For what you said before, Brian, you have to think about winning 16 games, not eight. And right now they got six. They want to get 10 more. They got to have OG ready if they're going to get another.
- [35:50]
Brian Windhorst
Now, I want to point something out the, the, the high post offense or, you know, the. Whatever that you want to call what they're running with Carl Towns. It's really helping the Knick wings because Towns is feeding the Knick wings and og. Part of the reason OG was having an uplift in his offense was because the offense that Mike Brown is running, Mikhail Bridges, is having a very good offensive playoffs. Now, his volume isn't high, largely because, I mean, Cat can't barely get a shot out there with Brunson, but, but Bridges is shooting 60% in the eight games. Now he's only averaging. Only, but he's averaging 12 points. I don't, you know, toss some more touches his way and see how that might go because he's on heater.
- [36:46]
Eric Bontemps
He's probably going to get some more. And the other thing to watch too is in the second half of this game, too, Josh Hart hit his left hand, banged his thumb.
- [36:55]
Brian Windhorst
He has also listed as questionable.
- [36:57]
Eric Bontemps
He's questionable with a thumb spring.
- [36:58]
Brian Windhorst
There's no chance he's not. Now, this is a different question.
- [37:00]
John McMahon
Yeah, there was no.
- [37:01]
Brian Windhorst
There's no chance he's not playing.
- [37:03]
Eric Bontemps
Josh Hart will all but certainly be playing. However, my guess is that thumb is going to be fairly compromised and his hand is going to be pretty heavily taped up.
- [37:11]
Brian Windhorst
It is his left hand, his left
- [37:12]
Eric Bontemps
side of shooting hand. But like, again, this is a guy who handles the ball, who's rebounding, who's making plays like. So that game too for the Knicks was massive on a variety of levels. Obviously it's always important to hold home court, but this series would feel much different if the Sixers had found a way to steal that game and the Knicks had these injuries. And we will see what happens on Friday. My assumption is Joel Embiid will play in Game three, but it's just an assumption and Joel Embiid was probable to play at one o' clock in the afternoon on Wednesday and then he didn't play. So who knows where things stand. And by the way, Mitchell Robinson I was watching Mitchell Robinson warm up for the game sitting next to Mike Bream and he got downgraded to questionable while he was in front of me warming up with an illness and they didn't play. So I don't know what's going on in the series for me to just
- [37:59]
Brian Windhorst
why was he sitting next to Mike Breen?
- [38:00]
Eric Bontemps
We have to protect I know Mitch Watson was on the court shooting while he was downgraded to questionable with an illness and that didn't play. So I There's been a lot of weird injury stuff.
- [38:11]
Brian Windhorst
Well, listen, Joel Embiid was listed as probable and didn't play.
- [38:14]
Eric Bontemps
Probable and then out immediately. Yes, I know. It's been a weird series from that standpoint.
- [38:18]
Brian Windhorst
Yes. All right, well, let's go to bed and let Jackson go to work through the middle of the night. In a moment here, you're going to hear the rest of the podcast we recorded many hours ago, including a special ending to the podcast that, you know, I think is very is going to be very memorable. So it was.
- [38:37]
John McMahon
I have concerns. I'm unaware.
- [38:42]
Brian Windhorst
Hang on for that.
- [38:43]
Eric Bontemps
Hang on for that for sure.
- [38:45]
John McMahon
More Hoop Collective podcast after this.
- [38:50]
Brian Windhorst
This episode is brought to you by State Farm. You know those friends who support your preference for podcasts over on road trips. That's the energy State Farm brings to insurance. With over 19,000 local agents, they help you find the coverage that fits your needs so you can spend less time worrying about insurance and more time enjoying the ride. Download the State Farm app or go online@statefarm.com like a good neighbor, State Farm is there.
- [39:15]
Eric Bontemps
You tell yourself no one wants your
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John McMahon
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Eric Bontemps
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Brian Windhorst
You once paid a small fortune for
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Eric Bontemps
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John McMahon
Now a teenager who calls them vintage
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Eric Bontemps
will offer that same small fortune back.
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Brian Windhorst
Sell them easily on Depop.
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Eric Bontemps
Just snap a few photos and we'll take care of the rest. Who knew your questionable music taste will
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John McMahon
be a money making machine.
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Brian Windhorst
Your style can make you cash.
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Eric Bontemps
Start selling on Depop where taste recognizes taste.
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Brian Windhorst
AI is moving fast across the enterprise, but without visibility, it's just chaos. Different tools, different models, different teams using
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Eric Bontemps
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Brian Windhorst
ServiceNow turns that chaos into control. With the AI control tower, you see all your AI across the business in one place, what it's doing, what it's done and what it's about to do. So you stay in control.
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Eric Bontemps
To put AI to work for people, visit servicenow.com.
- [40:21]
Brian Windhorst
Okay, it is now hours earlier I'm in Los Angeles. Hopefully I made a safe journey back home and recorded the front end of this podcast at that time and hopefully it was a lovely day and hopefully I was in a great mood. But anyway, we're going to discuss some other things that were not as involved with the results of Thursday night's games. And I want to start with what happened on Wednesday night in San Antonio. I35 corridor McMahon specialty one thing I will say about the spurs and you know, we are still very early in the postseason, McMahon, every time San Antonio has faced a bit of challenge, I don't know if I'd say adversity, they've responded. Victor got hurt and then they lost that game. They bounced back with two come from behind wins in Portland. They lose a tough emotional game to Minnesota, come back and actually, you know, one of the most impressive things about this win to me, McMahon, the blowout that they had of the wolves in game two was that they were up like 24 at the half and then they pushed the lead to like 37 like right out of the gate, which shows a team that is focused. So the spurs are passing tests. They'll get bigger ones, but they're passing tests right now.
- [41:39]
John McMahon
Yeah, this was no come from behind. This was just an absolute booty whipping. And you know, look, they got their nose bloodied in the first round or I'm sorry, in the first game. And they responded. I really enjoyed some of the ant quotes after this, you know, and he's talking about how he like pointed out to his team and say team to steal Game one. Like, you know, they tend to, as he said, get cool and get their butts whooped in game two. He said, we came out cool. Look what happened. My mama used to tell me that a hard head make a soft ass. That's what happened tonight, I can't sum it up any better than that. They had a soft ass that got whooped. And you know, for the spurs, like I'm sure the last, you know, the, the day in between game one and two was not pleasant because they should not have lost game one. That was a bad loss for them. But you're gonna like championship journeys aren't smooth. Like there's gonna be bumps. Last year at the Thunder, Thunder had two seven game series. You know, they went one and three in game threes and we're down 31 in the one that they won. Like it's not just gonna be like a cruise to a title. You're gonna have to respond when things don't go well. And this is a pretty impressive response.
- [43:03]
Eric Bontemps
Yeah, I mean look, when you, when you're the favorite team and you go down 10 in a series at home, right, you're supposed to bounce back and play well. Like, like Ant said, right. You typically the home team is going to bounce back and play well. And that was a very impressive response. You know, obviously this person have to get home court back. We'll see what happens in Minnesota. But all you could do is win the next game when you drop one at home. And not only did they win, as you guys both said, they absolutely throttled the wolves from start to finish. And it was a very mature professional response to a disappointing start to the series and now serious shifts back to Minnesota and it's going to be an awfully fun weekend there and we'll see if the Wolves can hold serve or if San Antonio can get it back either.
- [43:45]
Brian Windhorst
You know, San Antonio shot the three pointer significantly better in game two. That's always going to be, you know, a variable, especially with a team that has had variable success. But I like that Victor was looking to go inside and score and you know, no one is saying he shouldn't take threes, but he still took seven in this game. It wasn't like he didn't take them. But you know, playing inside out, I think Victor, especially in a playoff setting, I think Victor will find is where he is most advantageous. So I justumu came back in this game after missing two games with the calf injury, only played 10 minutes, 1:04,
- [44:25]
Eric Bontemps
you know, the game I believe with heel inflammation after that. Right?
- [44:29]
Brian Windhorst
Yeah. So. And then Ant, I think he was five of 12. He came. I think it was interesting with Ant. Okay. I think it was interesting that ant's first five shots that he took when he came in the game and by the way, when he came in, the spurs already had a double digit lead, I think. Yeah, his first five shots were threes, so. And they, and they left him coming off the bench. Maybe it was because it was successful but basically what I'm saying is I'm not sure where IO and Ant are physically and you know, one day off and play and I just think that they're going to need scoring from the guards. Wembanyama makes it so hard to get anything going towards the basket and I appreciate it so much the way that Jaden McDaniels played and Julius Randle played in game one. But it's just going to be hard. They're going to need guard scoring. I don't think that's coming from Mike Conley. I don't think Taryn Shannon you can count on. They're going to need. I just, you know, I think if you're Minnesota, what you're hoping for is again, I would, to be honest with you, I'm sure they're trying to, they're going to win both, but I think they're, you know, honestly try to split these two. I think they just need guard play. McMahon and guard scoring more than anything.
- [45:41]
John McMahon
Well, and look, Ant came off the bench because they're trying to manage his minutes still, which tells you he's not healthy. I mean, he's, he's playing on a bad wheel and you know, he played 24 minutes last night. You know, Finn said pregame that the minutes limit was increased. Obviously you're not going to play him late in a blowout and we'll see if he, if he continues to come off the bench in game three. Maybe it's bumped up enough talking about the minutes limit where they feel like it's, it's, you know, comfortable to have him in the starting lineup. Ayo, that's concerning a heel. It's been a calf. Like, man, he's, he's dealing with a lot of stuff. I don't know if it, if the heel, you know, sometimes when you're dealing with the calf kind of trying to protect it, other things happen. I don't know if it's related or not or just a completely separate thing, but either way, like, that's tough and like Shannon, that he can, he can get buckets just by being an awesome athlete, but he's not going to be a half court creator and that's what you're talking about. But when they need offense from the guards, they need Ant who obviously is a, you know, almost 30 point per game scorer and a sumu to to create offense in the half court against an elite defense. You know where. Yeah. Where it's going to be tough to score in the paint because you've got a 7 foot 6 alien in there.
- [47:05]
Eric Bontemps
Yeah. I mean they're not winning the series if Ann isn't the best player. So they need, I mean IO is obviously a critical piece with, with Dante Divachezo clearly not going to be back this season. But this is about. And they, they need Anthony Edwards to be Anthony Edwards and if he's something less than that, yes, they got by Denver in that scenario. It's hard to see them winning 3 out of 5. If Anthony Edwards can't be a first team all NBA caliber player like he usually is at this time of year. And if he's not, you know, it's hard to see it going that way. Which is you'd think by game three his minutes will be up to the point where he could start and that'll look different. But if the explosion isn't there, you know, it might not.
- [47:47]
Brian Windhorst
Yeah. If he's not feel. If he's not feeling it, he's not feeling it.
- [47:51]
Eric Bontemps
And that is the, and that is the real the, the thing that's really fun about this next month. These two rounds are always my favorite too because you've got either one or two games every night and the matchups are all really high level and it's every other day. So there's a rhythm to it. Unlike say the finals where it gets really drawn out. The downside of it not being like the finals where it's really drawn out is if you are somebody that's either gets hurt or you're dealing with an injury like Ant or you're trying to come back from one. It is a relentless pace when you're playing 40 minutes a night every other day. And it can be very hard to sort of recover as that series is
- [48:29]
John McMahon
going on and look like the anticipation was that Ant wasn't going to be ready for these first couple games like he, remember he returned early.
- [48:39]
Eric Bontemps
In fact, he's even doing this as a surprise.
- [48:41]
Brian Windhorst
Yeah, I agree. Yeah, I'm not. I'm certainly keeping my expectations under, under control. However, the reality is if you're analyzing what Minnesota needs, Bontem said is on the money. Okay, so we'll keep an eye on that series. Want to take a little bit of a look at some things happening off the court because the off season is starting to ramp up and Taylor Jenkins was introduced as the head Coach of the Milwaukee Bucks on Wednesday and one of the team's co owners, Jimmy Haslam, also owns the Cleveland Browns, owns the Columbus Crew. You know, one of the, one of the bigger names in sports ownership right now spoke on the Record about Giannis and said, basically, I got two, I
- [49:29]
Eric Bontemps
got the two relevant quotes right here.
- [49:30]
Brian Windhorst
Go for it. Go ahead.
- [49:32]
Eric Bontemps
Listen, Giannis has brought Milwaukee its second championship and the first in 50 years. He's a phenomenal player, He's a phenomenal person. He's arguably one of the best basketball players in the world. And we will do what's best for Giannis and what's best for the organization. We don't know whether Giannis will stay with us or not, but work through that with Giannis in the coming weeks. This is Eric from Eric Naim's story in the Athletic for credit. Later in the news conference, Jimmy Haslam referenced the NBA draft being roughly six weeks away as a general timeline and figuring out when the organization should have clarity on Giannis's future. Quote, I just think before the draft is a natural time because if Giannis does play somewhere else, we ought to get a lot of assets. And that's John, meaning John Horst gm. That's John's job to do it. If he's here, then you build the team different. And the one other thing that's relevant is when they met with Taylor Jenkins, who they introduced as the head coach, which is where these quotes came from. On Wednesday, Jimmy Haslam said, when they met with Taylor Jenkins, they said, do not come here. Garrett, thinking for certain that Giannis Tennikounmpo is going to be on the team. He may be on the team, he may not. But if you want this job, don't take it with the certainty of Giannis being here. Take it for other reasons.
- [50:46]
John McMahon
Take it for the money, which he
- [50:47]
Eric Bontemps
did well, yes, but. So certainly the Bucks are at least openly signaling that Giannis could be traded. And I would certainly agree that if to me, I thought the whole time that if Giannis Tennokounmpo is going to be traded this summer, he will be traded by or at the draft, because it doesn't really make a lot of sense to trade him in July. Like you're either going to do a big deal at the draft and you're going to get a bunch of assets back surrounding the draft, whether probably in present players and draft picks, or he's not going to get traded. And if he doesn't get traded, I expect him to sign an extension in October when he's eligible.
- [51:25]
Brian Windhorst
Well, that's really the thing. The something that they have to come to terms on is where Giannis is at. And I think basically, it's like in or out. And if you're in.
- [51:36]
Eric Bontemps
Here's the thing, I don't think that's the case. If Giannis tennkounmpo is on the team in October, he will sign the extension. So to me, this is about what the Bucks decide to do. The Bucks.
- [51:46]
Brian Windhorst
That's the implication. The implication is Giannis, you're not going to say trade me July 10th, you're going to be trade.
- [51:53]
Eric Bontemps
Giannis isn't going to say trade me. So at this.
- [51:55]
Brian Windhorst
I know, but the implication is that he's signing the extension. If he's not signing the extension, they're going to trade him. Now, that's one thing that Wes Eaton said on the record to Ramona Shelburne.
- [52:05]
Eric Bontemps
Giannis Santokupo, if he's on the Bucks on October 1st, when he's eligible to sign that extension, he will extend. So the question to me is not will Giannis extend? It's will the Bucs decide to trade him or not? Which has been the same question that it's been.
- [52:19]
Brian Windhorst
So are you implying. Wait, hold on, hold on. Are you implying that the Bucs may not want to extend him?
- [52:25]
Eric Bontemps
I. I don't know what the Bucks are going to decide. I think that, to me, that the decision tree between now and the draft is do the Bucks decide to trade Giannis Tenn Kupo or not? Because Giannis.
- [52:38]
Brian Windhorst
Why would they not trade him? What would the reason not to trade him be? Because he's going to extend.
- [52:43]
Eric Bontemps
Well. Well, he's going to extend if he's on the team. That's my point. This is.
- [52:48]
Brian Windhorst
Well, then they should just not trade him just. Then just don't trade him.
- [52:51]
John McMahon
No, no, no, no. Because it has reached a point where it is in everybody's best interest for Giannis to be traded. The Bucks.
- [52:58]
Brian Windhorst
Okay, well, that idea of building a chance.
- [53:00]
Eric Bontemps
But it's not a different. No, it's not a different. No, it's not a different conversation. The conversation.
- [53:04]
John McMahon
The idea that they're going to contend with Giannis like, stop it. You won 32 games last year.
- [53:09]
Brian Windhorst
You're not close. Well, no, duh. Like, that's obvious. I mean, everybody who's. Who has a rational understanding of the situation. Let's just back up. Knows that the Bucs can't go forward. The Bucs are going to have more information on Sunday than they had in February. Number One, they're going to know what the lottery is.
- [53:29]
Eric Bontemps
That's right.
- [53:29]
Brian Windhorst
So they're going to know who potential Giannis suitors are and what their lottery position is. The second thing that they're going to know that they didn't know in February is probably what the tanking rules are going to be. Not that the Bucs necessarily would tank, but.
- [53:44]
Eric Bontemps
Well, the Bucks don't have any draft picks anyway, so I understand that they may end up with some.
- [53:49]
Brian Windhorst
The tanking rules are helpful. Okay. But if the Bucks don't trade Giannis, it's because they intend to extend him. Otherwise, you got to trade him. That's baseline analysis, the decision.
- [54:05]
Eric Bontemps
Yes, that is correct. I mean, but this is the same place it's been now for two years where Giannis, like, again, what is our mantra on the podcast? Actions over words. Giannis has said a lot of things. The one thing he has not said definitively is trade me out of Milwaukee. Publicly, he said a lot of other things. He hasn't said that. And I don't anticipate that there's going to be some public trade demand issued. So. And I believe, based off conversations that I've had for a long time, that if Giannis is on the team in October, he will extend.
- [54:40]
Brian Windhorst
So, okay, you keep saying that. If the Bucks don't want to trade him, and you think if he's on the team he's going to extend, then just don't trade them. Where's my problem?
- [54:52]
Eric Bontemps
Well, you're not. You're not listening. That's what I think. I think what we're going to decide. I think what's going to be McMahon.
- [54:57]
Brian Windhorst
Am I. Am I. Am I crazy?
- [54:58]
Eric Bontemps
No, I think what's going to be decided in the next six weeks or eight weeks is, are the Bucks going to start over or not? That's the question. Are they actually going to start over and trade him and move into a new phase, or are they not?
- [55:13]
John McMahon
So here's why I say you're crazy.
- [55:15]
Brian Windhorst
I'm sorry, McMahon. What you're saying, Bontems, is that Giannis doesn't actually have a role in the decision, that it's just the Bucks, whether they're trading him or not.
- [55:23]
Eric Bontemps
I. I do not. I think Giannis could play a role if he came out publicly and declared, I don't want to be here anymore, but he's not going to do that. So that, to me, makes it incumbent on the Bucks to make a decision,
- [55:39]
Brian Windhorst
which, yeah, I think it's going to be like this. I'm sorry, McMahon. I apologize. I think they're going to look him in the eye and they're going to say, giannis, are you going to sign the extension? If we offer it in October and if the answer is anything but one three letter word, then they're going to trade him. That's why I think it's going to be.
- [55:56]
Eric Bontemps
I mean, you could say that. However, I think everybody involved would. Would agree that if Giannis is there in October, he'll sign it. So I think it's a. I think it's about deciding what is what is. What is the best path forward for the organization. Is it to have Giannis on the team and muddle through and probably not have a path to being very good with him on the team and have all kinds of drama and. Right, that also. Or do you say what Jimmy Haslam said there? Giannis has been either the best player in Bucs history or the second best player in Bucs history, depending on how you phrase that sentence, just in terms of his Bucs career, overall talent, and he's had an incredible run. And we're going to do the best thing for Giannis and the best thing for us, the best thing for Giannis and the best thing for the Bucks would be to trade Giannis. Whether Giannis says get me out of here or not, and let him go somewhere else and play somewhere else and let the Bucks start over and start rebuilding from the situation they are in. I think it is Bucs ownership's decision to decide what course of action they want to take that.
- [57:05]
Brian Windhorst
I. Okay, now we're, now we're in agreement.
- [57:07]
John McMahon
Now they have to take. They have to take back control of the franchise because all they've done is what, you know, what's Giannis. Humph. What's Giannis want?
- [57:16]
Eric Bontemps
What's Giannis want?
- [57:16]
John McMahon
Like, dude, it's your franchise. Operate in your best interest.
- [57:20]
Eric Bontemps
What they've been doing the past several years is emptying the torpedo or damming the torpedoes every year to try to be as good as possible. That's what the Miles Turner thing was. That's what Ryan Lillard thing was. Like they've made all these and they're not good and they're not good enough. So again, it's like, yeah, if, if, if Giannis came out and said, man, I want to be a buck my whole career, I want to stay here, I want to finish in Milwaukee, I would say, awesome, that's great, right?
- [57:47]
Brian Windhorst
Like he said, many opportunities to do that, right?
- [57:50]
John McMahon
Yeah, sure do. The Dirk, he's not done right.
- [57:52]
Eric Bontemps
That would be fun. Like, I'm not sitting here for people in Milwaukee. I have never been sitting here saying, man, the Bucks just have to, have to get rid of Giannis. Small markets have to get rid of players they don't want to stay. I think it's awesome Dame is back in Portland. If Damon never said, get me out of Portland, I think that'd be great. I think it's, I think, I think it's cool. Devin Booker has been like, you know what? I don't want to leave Phoenix. I think that's cool. Like you could say, well, is that the best thing for his career or not? Well, if he wants to be in Phoenix, great. Like, that's what matters. Like, it's cool. Being a 1 team player is cool. Being, being Steph Curry is cool. Right? So if Giannis wants to do that, if Nokoyokic wants to do that in Denver, awesome. But Giannis has not done that. There's been all this drama, all this nonsense around the team for years now. And so that's, to me, that's where if Giannis is there. I think if you ask people who know Giannis, they think he'll extend. So the question will be, will Giannis be given the opportunity to extend by being on the team or not? And that is where I think that line for Jimmy Haslam, that we're going to do the best thing for Giannis and the best thing for the Bucks, that is the ultimate question, what is the best thing for Giannis and what is the best thing for the Bucks in the mind of Wes Edens and Jimmy Haslam? Because that should be trading him between now and June 24th or whatever day they want to come.
- [59:07]
Brian Windhorst
Okay. I was looking forward to more weeks without having Giannis talk, so let's move on. Now I just want to deal with Jalen Brown. I don't want to go chapter and verse over Jaylen Brown. I just want to say two things and bontemps, this is your neck of the woods, so I'll get out of the way. Two important things that happened on Wednesday. One, Brad Stevens held his end of season media availability, just christened as executive of the year and said as far as I know, Jalen is happy. I just talked to him two days ago and he didn't say anything about to me. Second thing he said was we were 3 and 11 against the top three seeds in the west and the top two seeds in the East. That's not good enough. We have to get better. Those two things were said then and talk about inactions over words and in this case, actions to get to words. Jalen beat a path to get back onto the Internet and say, no, no, no, no, no, no. I'm sorry, Brad. I didn't mean for that to happen to you. And I am very happy in Boston. I want to stay here 10 more years. So those two things happen now. Bontemps, your reaction?
- [60:15]
Eric Bontemps
Well, you left out the initial context of that, which is Tracy McGrady said that Jalen Brown there was some things. Well, I mean, let's just say flatly what it is.
- [60:25]
Brian Windhorst
He said, this is my favorite year of my career when a year.
- [60:29]
Eric Bontemps
Set that part aside. That's not what Brad. That's not what Brad was answering to. Brad was answering to Tracy McGrady who has a long time close relationship with Jaylen Brown. Going on, I think, a podcast. I don't think it was on NBC, his podcast. It was on his cousin's podcast. Okay, going go or Right, sorry. On demarcus podcast, go. Saying the bottom line is he said
- [60:51]
John McMahon
Jaylen Brown has cousins. Him and Vince Carter's podcast.
- [60:53]
Eric Bontemps
Oh, sorry. I'm sorry. Yeah, it's his podcast with. With Vince Carter, his cousin. Sorry. Anyway, point was he wanted a podcast. Said Jalen Brown has deep frustrations with the cell. That was what Brad Stevens was asked about. Not the favorite year thing. He's been saying that all season. And then Brad responded. And then Jalen responded, look, the Celtics are in a very interesting spot. They're in, I think, a very similar spot to the one that Denver Nuggets are in where they have excellent high end talent, but they don't have a lot of depth. They don't have a lot of tradable salary. Now, unlike the Nuggets, they have some young players that are interesting and they have a million draft picks. Their whole. I think they have just about every draft pick they have. I think they have one swapped out. So they have a lot of flexibility to swing trades with draft picks if they want to improve the roster. But they don't have money to put in deals unless it is Jason Tatum or Jaylen Brown or Derrick White. 3 Awfully good, awfully important players to.
- [61:56]
Brian Windhorst
I don't want to cut you off, but that's not 100% accurate. They do have a $27 million trade exception.
- [62:02]
John McMahon
Ooh, in your face.
- [62:04]
Brian Windhorst
That they could use just.
- [62:05]
Eric Bontemps
They have. They have a trade exception. They're also going to be about $14 million below the luxury tax. And I don't think they're going to go into the luxury tax this season for repeater purposes. If they don't trade any of those
- [62:16]
John McMahon
guys in your face, Wendy, they might,
- [62:18]
Eric Bontemps
they, they could, they could go in the tax to take on money that way. But overall they are in a, they're in a tricky. They're in a, they're in a better spot than Denver overall because they do
- [62:30]
Brian Windhorst
one more thing they do owe they don't control their next two first round picks next year is a swap and then they owe a owe a first round pick to Portland for having traded for Drew Holiday.
- [62:43]
Eric Bontemps
So just they didn't give up any picks in the Drew Holiday train. Portland Portland owed Milwaukee and Portland had picks in Drew Holiday trade Celtics.
- [62:51]
Brian Windhorst
What I'm looking at is in 2029 first round pick to Portland or Washington. I mean maybe what I'm looking at is inaccurate. I don't maybe what I'm looking at is inaccurate. I don't think they control their first, the next two first round picks after this year.
- [63:06]
Eric Bontemps
Okay, they have. Okay, I'll check that in a minute. The point is less about that. The point is that they do have a lot, a decent amount of assets. They do have some interesting young talent. Uber Gonzalez had a nice rookie year. Jordan Walsh came on. Baylor Shireman came on. Amos Kata had a really good year as their starting center. But Brad's point about the 3 and 11 record against the elite teams I think was telling in terms of their overall talent level when the Sixers were healthy as that series went on, they look like the more talented team from a top end standpoint as that series went on. And it is going to be a challenge for the Celtics to add, I think, the kind of depth and talent necessary to really be a championship contending team. When you look at Oklahoma City and you look at San Antonio like the situation that Denver's in and it's a reminder that over the course of the last year they lost Drew Holiday and Chris Jasper Zingis and Luke Cornett and Al Horford, all critical parts of their team the past few years and they sort of didn't replace any of them because they had to shed so much money. So it is going to be a very interesting summer to see what happens with Jaylen Brown who as you have pointed out, Brian is eligible for a contract extension this summer. He's got three years left on his contract so it's not exactly pressing. But he can extend on July 25th. And you know, the Celtics have talked about, Brad talked about in his presser yesterday. They have to add more talent. They have to get better and they're going to stay under the tax especially. They have fairly limited ways of doing that without moving one of those big salary guys.
- [64:42]
John McMahon
You know, I will just remind people that the Celtics were considered the clear cut favorites in the Eastern Conference. They got up to a 31 lead. You know, Jayson Tatum came back from an Achilles late in the season. You would anticipate that he will be healthy and better next year. I mean, it's not like the, the sky is falling in Boston, but there, there are some, you know, there are some issues.
- [65:07]
Brian Windhorst
I agree. I think you have two players in their twenties under control who, who are players that you need two way wing players with size who have proven that they are championship, a championship duo. I would absolutely not break them up. I would examine whether or not I want to be all gas, no break when it comes to the three pointer that you know, and may maybe take a look at personnel that way. I think that's a fair evaluation. I would evaluate, you know, my big man rotation. They did a great job getting Keda, but you know, they, they gave up two key big. I mean, I don't blame them for moving on from Porzingis and Horford, but they need to address whether or not that's, you know, they traded for Vucevic and I don't think he'll be back. So I think they, you know, they have some things they need to evaluate and I think they need to, you know, check in and make sure everybody's cool. But I am not the executive of the year. Brad Stevens is. Brad Stevens has stuck his neck out and made trades of play. Like, you know, they traded Jrue Holiday, they traded Marcus Smart, they traded Chris Epsorzingis. He's not been afraid to trade core players.
- [66:14]
Eric Bontemps
Right.
- [66:16]
Brian Windhorst
So I will take that into account. But I think that two guys in their 20s who are two way wings,
- [66:23]
John McMahon
pretty valuable and the trades that made last year were about saving money. And part of the reason they had to make those trades is because Jaylen Brown and Jason Tatum are supermax players.
- [66:33]
Brian Windhorst
But as you said on the other side of it, when the smoke all cleared, they still had the second best record in the east and were regarded as the favorite. So I would say Brad Stevens in his front office has a track record for which you could say they know what they're doing. So I will, yeah, I would, I would agree with that.
- [66:51]
Eric Bontemps
I would say we also had Denver as one of the three favorites in the west and they lost in the first round. Like the Celtics. And when you lose in the playoffs in the manner those two teams did, it clarifies your situation a little bit. And I'm not sitting here saying the Celtics are doomed either. Like they have. Obviously they have high end talent. They've got an excellent coach, they've got an excellent front office. They've been one of the best organizations in the league for a decade or more. Like they, they have a track record of getting things done. However, I think even if you ask the Celtics, they would say this is not the easiest situation to navigate from. And look, it's also a reminder that they've been an outstanding, you know, top of the league team for a decade. Like the way the new rules are set up, it is very difficult to extend a window like that for, you know, more than four or five years. And the Celtics are at a really interesting inflection point after shedding several hundred million dollars in payroll and luxury taxes this summer. They have to try to get that talent back. That's, I mean it's a conversation I've had with people around the league is like getting that level of talent back when you had to shed it without obvious ways to do it. It's going to be a challenge. Doesn't mean it's impossible. It's going to be hard.
- [68:09]
Brian Windhorst
We'll talk more about the Celtics when we get to the off season. There's a Peyton Pritchard option to extend. There's a option to extend, name is Kate up, blah, blah, blah. All right. We do have the lottery coming up on Sunday afternoon. I'm planning on going and being in the room. We'll be talking about that on Sunday night. I know Bontemps has done it before. I'll probably say it was boring like other people, but it's a consequential lottery. A few things about this lottery that you should know. There's a couple of. Obviously Washington, Indiana and Brooklyn all have the top chances to get in the top four picks. Utah and Sacramento are right behind. The last three years we've had some leap ups. The last year the mavericks won an 8.1.8% chance. I think two years ago the Hawks had a 3% chance. So we've had some long shots come in here. But a couple of things about this lottery that I think you should know. One, what I am calling the Clippers Pacers paradox. So going back to the Avitzia Zubac trade from February, the Pacers pick is top four protected. We'll go to the Pacers. We'll go to the Clippers, if it's number five or six. The reason I say five or six is because it can't be seven. The farthest the pacers pick can go is six. So, and here's the percentages. The pacers have a 48% chance of keeping that pick. 14% for one, 13% for two, 13% for three, 12% for four. There's, there's fractions in there, but whatever, I'm sorry. 52% of keeping their pick. 52% in the top four. 48%. Roughly a coin toss that it goes to the Clippers. And I would just point out that last year two teams in the top four, Washington and Utah, both ended up at 5 and 6. So of the top three teams that had the highest percentage last year, two of them ended up in 5 and 6.
- [70:13]
John McMahon
This is the exact same situation that the Rockets and Thunder had a few years ago, several years ago now. And that was the pick that ended up being Jalen Green. The Rockets ended up keeping the pick, but it was a top four protective pick.
- [70:29]
Brian Windhorst
So if you're Indiana, you're going to get Tyrese Halliburton back. You've still got your championship core with Aaron Neesmith and Andrew Nemhardt. You've added Zubot. You suck them. Sorry, they obviously swapped out. Matherin was in that trade with, with, with, with that got Zubot. So you've swapped out. But like, by the way, if this trade doesn't convey, like if the, the Pacers get a top four pick, the pick turns into a 2031 pick. That's unprotected. And for all I know, in 2031, the next LeBron James will be sitting there for the Clippers to take. But if the Clippers are either going to get a 4A player than the top five or six, a potential cornerstone rebuild piece, or it's going to be see it in 2031.
- [71:14]
Eric Bontemps
To me, I think it's much more relevant the other way. Like the Pacers by adding Zubots. Now they also add one of the top four players in a loaded draft to Halbert Siakam. Zubots, the team that they, Aaron Neesmith, the team that they have, that's the kind of guy that could ensure that Indiana remains a true Finals contender for the rest of the decade and beyond. If they miss out on that and they give, yeah, they get the 2031 pick back, which is nice, but this is a team that's ready to win now. And if they, they don't add a top four player from this draft to this team. It's not a fatal blow or anything, but that's a huge lost opportunity to add a massive impact player to a team that's ready to go right now. It'd be like when the Celtics got Jason Tatum added their team after making the conference finals in 2017. Like that. You don't get a lot of opportunities like that.
- [72:11]
Brian Windhorst
That's right. That's a great point.
- [72:12]
Eric Bontemps
Like that. The Clippers are obviously in a much different place, but certainly they would love to get one of the guys in
- [72:18]
Brian Windhorst
this draft, the Clippers. Okay, so here's the two ends of the spectrum for the Clippers. They get the number five or six pick, you know, kick starts their retrofit or they don't get that pick. The Pacers are celebrating. And what about the Thunder? Because we haven't talked about the Clippers actual pick. The Thunder. The Thunder, by the way have a about a 7% chance with the Clippers pick of moving in the top four.
- [72:43]
John McMahon
If the Thunder movement in the top four, I don't know if that happens.
- [72:48]
Brian Windhorst
You're going to hear liquor bottles popping in that room and it's not going to be.
- [72:53]
Eric Bontemps
You know what honestly would be fascinating, you know, it'd be fascinating truly if the Thunder move into the top four. I genuinely wonder if it has an impact on lottery reform because that, that is exactly the kind of thing that will be much more likely to happen under these.
- [73:07]
Brian Windhorst
Absolutely correct. And absolutely correct.
- [73:09]
Eric Bontemps
And I, I could see it really having a dramatic impact where people are looking around going wait a minute, this team that's already the best team in the league goes from 12 to 1 or 2 or 3 or 4 in this draft and adds another awesome player. Like this is what we're signing up for now going forward. Like it might not, might just be damn the torpedoes, we're going to push these rule changes through no matter what. But the NBA has proven to be fairly reactionary on this stuff and the reaction to that would be immense if the Thunder end up with one of these players in this draft.
- [73:43]
Brian Windhorst
Okay, the second little thing about this, you know, and we will react to who gets in there and who wins and who losses. But the second thing you need to know going in and bon temps. We've on the night that the Hawks made the trade to move back 10 spots in the draft and got what I'm about to discuss you other people too, but you were breathing fire about this move within an hour of it happening.
- [74:11]
Eric Bontemps
I mean it's one of the worst trades in the history of the NBA from a process.
- [74:14]
Brian Windhorst
Okay. But I don't. So I got from the league the graph, the, the, the, the flow chart of the percentages. And I don't think that I fully understood just what the Hawks percentage chances were. So I just want to reiterate that if you are a top four, if you have one of the three worst records, you have a 52% chance of getting a top four pick. 52. Keep that in your mind. If you're, if you're the next layer, which is Utah and Sacramento. So if you're a top five worst team, that those guys have 45% chances. Okay? So keep that in your mind. 52 and 45 for the teams that sucked the entire season, okay? The tankiest of the tankers had to endure that. All right? So as a reminder, the trade that Milwaukee made or the trade that Atlanta made, they get the better of the Milwaukee or New Orleans pick. Whichever pick turns out the best between Milwaukee and New Orleans, Atlanta gets. Let me tell you what the percentages are. Cause this is what I didn't fully get. First pick, 10. I'm going to round. I'm going to round. First pick, 10% chance. Second pick, 10% chance. Because they're getting both teams picks. They're getting both teams chances.
- [75:36]
Eric Bontemps
Correct.
- [75:36]
Brian Windhorst
You understand?
- [75:37]
Eric Bontemps
Yeah.
- [75:38]
Brian Windhorst
Third pick, 10.1%. Fourth pick, 10.3%. It's like 40%. They're 40% in the Hawks who were in the playoffs with the sixth seed, they have both teams chances. They've got a 40% chance of getting in the top four.
- [75:56]
Eric Bontemps
Yes.
- [75:57]
Brian Windhorst
40%.
- [75:58]
Eric Bontemps
Yes. It's why the process of the trade was so terrible. McMahon's face is frozen on our screen. Very hilarious pose, but even here's my point.
- [76:08]
Brian Windhorst
Even though New Orleans chance of getting the top pick is 6%. Okay. Because 6.8% because Milwaukee's is also 3%. They get both sets of combinations.
- [76:24]
Eric Bontemps
Yes.
- [76:25]
Brian Windhorst
So like their, their combinations, their chance of getting that number one pick, when they pull those four balls, they're essentially even with Sacramento. Like Sacramento's got a, got a few more connections.
- [76:36]
Eric Bontemps
Yeah. I mean it's, it's why the, it's why the trade from a process standpoint was so terrible. Because the value that New Orleans gave up to move up 10 spots in the draft was just insane. It was completely insane at the time. And look, maybe the Hawks end up with the eighth pick or the ninth pick or whatever. Maybe they end up with the first pick. Doesn't change the process of the trade process. And we will find out on Sunday if Atlanta benefits from it. Because again, like the Thunder, if the, if the Atlanta Hawks who made the playoffs have an interesting young team look, even if they end up with the seventh pick, they're going to get somebody good in this draft. Like it's going to be a very interesting.
- [77:13]
Brian Windhorst
Well, I didn't even go to the other percentages. They've got a 20% chance at the seventh pick. So you add that in there, it's a 60% chance at a top seven
- [77:22]
Eric Bontemps
pick right in a great draft. So they're going to add a really good piece. Even if they had a bait that's, I mean they're going to end up
- [77:27]
Brian Windhorst
with a really, really good player is another 30%. So essentially they're 90% to be in the top eight.
- [77:34]
Eric Bontemps
Right. Which is, which is a great position to be in and you know, we'll see where they end up. But again if like, I mean obviously no one's the Thunder in this situation but like Indiana, like, like, like the Thunder and like Dallas, the other interesting team if because of Cooper Flag and now they've hired Masai Ujiri, those teams and Golden State's the one other one. I think those are the five or the four or five teams for fans to really watch in terms of like immediate teams of star players and really have something, something jump up. You know, if any of those teams jump into the top four and add some of these young stars like that are coming into the league, that's going to be a real game changer. And then obviously you've got these teams at the very top. You know, Utah's at the end of there. They just made the Jared Jackson trade. They'd love to get one of these picks obviously.
- [78:26]
Brian Windhorst
Yeah, I mean we can go team by turn.
- [78:30]
Eric Bontemps
There's a ton of teams in position to add dynamic players. I mean this is one of the most anticipated lotteries in a long time. Not just like design lottery. Some of these other ones were important because of one guy. This one, there's a lot of teams just hoping to get in top four because you're going to get. And then there's probably an all star, right.
- [78:48]
Brian Windhorst
Then there's another layer that amps it up because next year's draft at this point at least is not viewed as particularly deep.
- [78:54]
Eric Bontemps
The next year I would actually say, well, we'll worry about players always emerge. But this is a, this is a particularly special class followed by lesser classes
- [79:04]
Brian Windhorst
and there's going to be anti tanking measures that are going to make it hard to manipulate the system. So it just pours an extra layer of, you know, desperation desire into this. So, all right, we lost McMahon in Oklahoma City. Maybe we'll get him back on Sunday. We don't know. But thank you to McMahon. Yeah, he's, you know, who knows how when we finish this actual podcast, how we'll feel about McMahon because we have to wait for him. It won't be pretty.
- [79:35]
Eric Bontemps
It won't be pretty. Brian's already grumpy at 8:00am Eastern Pacific Time, and he's going to get home at about midnight Central time. So who knows?
- [79:43]
Brian Windhorst
Thank you to Jackson and Tucker, our producers. Thank you for listening and watching Hoop Collective with us during this playoff week, and we'll talk to you early next week.
- [79:51]
Eric Bontemps
Adios, amigos.
- [79:53]
Brian Windhorst
Adios, amigos. Hey, screw you guys.
- [79:59]
Eric Bontemps
I actually gotta work.
- [80:01]
Brian Windhorst
Adios, amigos. For some of us, personal finances aren't just personal. They include a lot more people than ourselves. Ourselves, loved ones, neighbors, the communities we call home, and the causes we hold in our hearts. At Thrivent, we help plan your financial picture with the bigger picture in mind. Because even though our business is helping guide your finances, our ambition is to make it mean so much more. Thrivent, where money means more. Connect with us@thrivent.com.