Major Playoff Drama For Knicks & Thunder + Butler Injury Update

Summary

Hoop Collective Podcast Summary

Episode Title: Major Playoff Drama For Knicks & Thunder + Butler Injury Update
Hosts: Brian Windhorst & Tim Bontemps
Release Date: April 25, 2025

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1. Knicks vs. Pistons Playoff Series

a. Game Recap
Brian Windhorst opens the discussion with an analysis of the recent Knicks vs. Pistons playoff game in Detroit. He highlights the Knicks' pivotal performance, emphasizing their collective effort and strategic execution. Windhorst notes, “Bridges, Anunoby, Towns and Brunson all had at least 20. And Josh Hart almost had a triple-double” ([04:40]).

b. Key Performances
Tim Bontemps underscores Jalen Brunson's efficiency, stating, “He's an expert at creating space” ([05:27]). Carl Towns also shines with an aggressive approach, scoring 31 points and making crucial late-game shots ([02:41], [05:48]).

c. Jalen Brunson Inbounding Controversy
A significant portion of the episode delves into the controversial inbound play by Jalen Brunson. Windhorst describes the play: “Jalen Brunson is going to get the ball to get fouled… he was running away with his back to hit the basket” ([10:24]). The debate centers around whether Brunson committed a backcourt violation. Tim explains, “Rule 4, Section G… is not a backcourt violation...” ([12:50]). Despite the contention, both hosts agree that the ruling did not alter the game's outcome, as Brunson missed the final free throw, sealing the Knicks' victory ([14:20], [16:20]).

d. Series Status and Implications
With this win, Windhorst suggests the series could extend to seven games, noting the Knicks' regained momentum ([09:45]). Bontemps emphasizes the Knicks' clutch performance, especially Brunson's ability to handle tight game situations ([10:02]).

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2. Nuggets vs. Clippers Playoff Series

a. Series Analysis
The hosts transition to the Nuggets vs. Clippers series, highlighting ongoing dissatisfaction with local TV blackouts preventing fans from watching playoff games. Windhorst laments, “This is insane… how a playoff game can be so hard to watch” ([24:29]).

b. Performance of Key Players
Tim Bontemps praises the Clippers’ defensive prowess and offensive efficiency, particularly James Harden's impactful performances. He remarks, “James Harden is beginning whatever he wants throughout this series” ([31:45]). Brian notes Nikola Jokic's solid performance despite the Clippers' dominance: “Jokic goes 9 of 14, 23 points, 13 rebounds, 13 assists” ([30:39]).

c. Blackout Issues Affecting Viewership
Both hosts express frustration over the blackout rules, arguing they are outdated and detrimental to fan engagement. Brian states, “It's a completely antiquated, ridiculous thing. It shouldn't exist anymore” ([25:21]).

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3. Injury Updates: Jimmy Butler

a. Jimmy Butler's Injury
Windhorst and Bontemps provide updates on Jimmy Butler's injury. Tim reports, “Jimmy Butler did not come out of this MRI with them saying there's a hairline fracture… it's a significant contusion” ([37:20]).

b. Impact on the Cavaliers
The potential sidelining of Butler poses a significant challenge for the Cavaliers. Bontemps observes, “It's hard to see how their rotation can win this series if Jimmy Butler isn't right” ([39:00]). The absence of Butler could force Steve Kerr to rely more heavily on Jonathan Kuminga, potentially altering the Cavaliers' game strategy ([40:11]).

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4. Evan Mobley Wins Defensive Player of the Year

a. Award Details
Evan Mobley secures the Defensive Player of the Year award, triggering a $45 million contract bonus over the next five years. Windhorst highlights, “Evan Mobley wins Defensive Player of the Year and triggered a $45 million contract bonus” ([36:13]).

b. Contract Implications for the Cavaliers
The bonus places the Cavaliers into financial strain, as the team approaches the second apron in the salary cap. Tim discusses the challenges: “The $45 million bonus adds about $8 million to the Cavs payroll… It's going to cost the Cavs a lot” ([46:36]).

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5. Thunder vs. Grizzlies Playoff Series

a. Series Recap
The Thunder face a formidable challenge against the Grizzlies, who recently lost their superstar Ja Morant to a hip injury. Marc Stein recaps the game, noting, “The Thunder are up three-zero… Jalen Williams played like a one-man wrecking crew” ([56:00], [67:06]).

b. Jalen Williams' Stellar Performance
Williams has emerged as a standout performer, consistently contributing over 20 points and significantly impacting the series outcome. Tim praises his dual-role capabilities: “He's a tremendous two-way player… he needs to have a second perimeter guy that you can really count on” ([69:30]).

c. Josh Giddey's Impact
Following his trade to the Thunder, Josh Giddey has been instrumental in their defensive strategies, particularly against Jaren Jackson Jr. Marc comments, “Josh Giddey was so bad in the playoffs last year… he was absolutely obliterating the Grizzlies” ([64:43]).

d. Team Strategies and Defenses
The Thunder have leveraged their strong defensive lineup, with players like Alex Caruso and Derek Jones excelling defensively. Tim states, “The Thunder have had one awful half, and in the other five halves of this series, they have outscored the Grizzlies by 102 points” ([63:09]).

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6. Miscellaneous Highlights

a. Coaches' Reactions and Bench Dynamics
Brian and Tim briefly discuss coaching moments and bench interactions, highlighting the intensity and strategic decisions made during critical game moments ([51:44]).

b. Social Media and Fan Engagement
The podcast touches on fan interactions and social media mentions, including humorous anecdotes about fans wearing multiple "undefeated" jerseys and their reactions to game outcomes ([54:15]-[55:48]).

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7. Conclusion

Brian Windhorst and Tim Bontemps wrap up the episode by recapping the critical developments in the NBA playoffs. They emphasize the high-stakes nature of the Knicks vs. Pistons and Thunder vs. Grizzlies series, the significant impact of injuries like Jimmy Butler's on team dynamics, and the financial implications of awards like Evan Mobley's Defensive Player of the Year. The hosts underline the importance of player performances and strategic decisions in determining the outcomes of these intense playoff battles.

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Notable Quotes:

• Brian Windhorst ([04:40]): “Bridges, Anunoby, Towns and Brunson all had at least 20. And Josh Hart almost had a triple-double.”

• Tim Bontemps ([05:27]): “He's an expert at creating space.”

• Brian Windhorst ([10:24]): “Jalen Brunson is going to get the ball to get fouled… he was running away with his back to hit the basket.”

• Tim Bontemps ([12:50]): “Rule 4, Section G… is not a backcourt violation...”

• Brian Windhorst ([25:21]): “It's a completely antiquated, ridiculous thing. It shouldn't exist anymore.”

• Tim Bontemps ([37:20]): “Jimmy Butler did not come out of this MRI with them saying there's a hairline fracture… it's a significant contusion.”

• Tim Bontemps ([46:36]): “The $45 million bonus adds about $8 million to the Cavs payroll… It's going to cost the Cavs a lot.”

• Tim Bontemps ([69:30]): “He's a tremendous two-way player… he needs to have a second perimeter guy that you can really count on.”

This comprehensive summary encapsulates the key discussions, insights, and conclusions from the Hoop Collective podcast episode, providing listeners with a clear understanding of the major playoff developments surrounding the Knicks, Thunder, and the broader NBA landscape.

Transcript

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[Brian Windhorst]

Foreign welcome to Hoop Collective Podcast. We talk about the NBA, which we're doing in the middle of freaking night. Joining us from New York City, where they're still celebrating, except they're all actually asleep because they're saying their victory in Detroit on Thursday night, it's Tim Bontemps.

[Tim Bontemps]

So I got a couple great updates. The pod listeners first update is our guy. Tim McMahon, the slowest writer on the planet, certainly in the west, is busy working, so we'll see when he shows up.

[Brian Windhorst]

The second update, he's in Memphis.

[Tim Bontemps]

The second update is our boy Window is in a real sour mood for a whole bunch of reasons. One of them is that there's going to be a lot of sleep updates and we'll get to the others, but we're going to have a real spicy pot. I'm excited.

[Brian Windhorst]

We're in trouble. We're in trouble that this is the first week of the playoffs and I am already this, in this, in this place.

[Tim Bontemps]

I wish I had a violin. Wish I could get it out.

[Brian Windhorst]

McMahon will join us as soon as he's done writing about the greatest collapse slash comeback in the modern era of the playoffs.

[Tim Bontemps]

Well, probably around 4am Eastern time. By the time he's done crafting.

[Brian Windhorst]

McMahon does a lot of things. I wouldn't say craft is one of them. All right, so we're going to start with what happened in Detroit tonight. Big game for the Pistons and and years coming for Detroit. The crowd was very into it, but the Knicks knew that it was a pivotal moment for their season. Really, they had to put their foot in the ground, especially after the way game two went down where it was sort of Jalen Brunson or nothing else. And it was a very interesting finish to the game, which we'll get to in a moment. But the grander tale this was the Knicks kind of at their best best, I thought Bon Temps because their stars in the starting lineup, all the money and draft pick capital that they have invested to put those five together that we've been talking about since October. They all played well. Carl Towns was aggressive considering he had what did he take one shot in the second half or he had one basket.

[Tim Bontemps]

A couple shots. A couple shots in the second half, none in the fourth quarter the other night.

[Brian Windhorst]

Totally different mindset, which is one of the things about the NBA playoffs. You see these each game sort of. Obviously there's certain matchup situations that don't change and certain themes that become apparent. But so often NBA playoff games there it's. You get yourself in trouble making assumptions that one thing is going to carry over to the other. You never. Sometimes it does, but sometimes it just doesn't crawl. Towns had a completely different focus in this game and was the Carl Towns. I mean, I don't know if I would say he was at his best, but this is, this is the kind of Towns they need. He had 31 points.

[Tim Bontemps]

Yeah, I mean this is the very simple stat in game. In game two, Jalen Brunson had 27 shots. Carl Town said 1138 total shots. In game three, Jalen Brunson had 20 shots, Carl Towns had 18. Same 38 shots distributed evenly. OG Anunoby had 17, Mikhail Bridges had 13. The ball was moving around. It was not the Jalen Brunson show. As you said, Carl was very aggressive throughout the game, including late in the game. Made a couple really big shots late. And like you said, the Knicks didn't look like the stationary, very rough offensive team they were in game two when everything was a slog and Jalen in the clutch, did what he does. Made a couple of huge buckets.

[Brian Windhorst]

Yes.

[Tim Bontemps]

And you know, these guys held on through some drama down the stretch and got a win. But you know, look, the last couple days there was a lot of noise around the Knicks and a lot of noise in New York about where this team was going after that loss on Monday night. And they responded really, really well. And the result was getting back ahead in the series, all four.

[Brian Windhorst]

Bridges, an Anoby, Towns and Brunson all had at least 20. And Josh Hart almost had a triple double. You know, rebounding and assisting. It was exactly the type of game that you want from them. And then Jalen's comfort level in a tight game is just, you know, he's worth his, he's worth his weight in gold in a tight game because he, he is, he knows how to get himself into foul position. He knows how to get to that spot. You know, he's obviously the heavy left handed player, but he almost always gets into his left, his left side and is Able to get good looks and sometimes he gets really high percentage looks. You almost can't believe he does. He's done. He's done it for years now. But it's like how did he get to the rim? How did he get that shot?

[Tim Bontemps]

He's an expert at creating space.

[Brian Windhorst]

You're exactly right. I also felt. I don't know. So. So townsend Brunson had 20 free throws tonight. I didn't think it was a reaction necessarily to Tibbs Rant the other day. Having said that, after the Knicks got out shot by, it was double digit free throws in this game. They had more free throws. It was only by a couple, but.

[Tim Bontemps]

It was a product of the Knicks aggressiveness. They were much more aggressive and Carl in particular was much more aggressive as Jackson just dropped in here. He. He had 12 drives in the game today and he had a 15 in the first two games combined. He just looked much more like the player that he has been all season. And when he is engaged like this. Offensively, the Knicks are a totally different looking team and they were much more in command of the game right from the jump, but really throughout the game. And it was a back and forth game like these games have all been. But the Knicks looked much more like the Knicks than they did in both games one and two. When like we talked about outside of a couple brief stretches in the fourth quarter, frankly they got pretty well dominated by the Pistons.

[Brian Windhorst]

I want to talk about what happened at the end of the game, but before I say that this was not Cade Cunningham's most efficient game. He had 24 points, but he took 25 shots. He had six turnovers. There were times where he was squeezing a little hard. He did have 11 assists.

[Tim Bontemps]

How six turnovers. I mean he's also carrying.

[Brian Windhorst]

Yeah, I thought if I said it.

[Tim Bontemps]

Yeah, he's carrying a massive load though. And like, look again, you look at this game, right? Tobias Harris didn't make a field goal till there were less than five minutes to go. Malik Beasley hit a three late. He was awful off the bench. I mean, Dennis Schroeder's got a lot of Russell Westbrook in him. You know, he's going to have moments where he does some really positive things. He also is going to have a lot of moments where he really is a problem for you in this kind of a game. He was guarding Jalen. Jalen was getting wherever he wanted against him. I mean this is just a limited Pistons team. There's a reason why I thought it was going to be a five game series and K is going through it for the first time in the playoffs. I think he's had some really good moments, but getting towards the end of these games, he's looking a little tired and it's understandable because he's got OGN and OBI leaning on him the whole game and he's got to just carry an immense burden every single time down the court.

[Brian Windhorst]

Having said that, watching him, I've. I've seen two of these three games.

[Tim Bontemps]

You're able to watch the game, Brian.

[Brian Windhorst]

I was able to watch this game. I enjoyed watching the playoff game.

[Tim Bontemps]

Some foreshadowing for later folks.

[Brian Windhorst]

I was already there. I mean he was second team all NBA in my ballot.

[Tim Bontemps]

He's on. I think he was 13 for me, but he was 100% on one of them.

[Brian Windhorst]

Might have been 13.

[Tim Bontemps]

Either way, he's. He's going to make all NBA this year.

[Brian Windhorst]

I already knew this. I mean I'm not the risk of being branded a discoverer. I've never even been more convinced that this like watching him operate in this series even though they're down 2:1. I am. I have only become more convinced of how amazing his future is going to be.

[Tim Bontemps]

This.

[Brian Windhorst]

This being his first playoff series. Like he's been. He's been excellent.

[Tim Bontemps]

He's been awesome. He's acquitted himself really well. And like you said, I mean a guy at his size, I mean I've liked him since he came in the league. Obviously his number one pick but I mean is it 6, 6, 67 guy at his size who can obviously run the point, handle the ball. We talked a lot about that World cup training camp after he sat out the whole year with the shin issue. He shows up. He was the best player on the court in those practices. Really stood out. Obviously last year was a train wreck for the Pistons, but he's got some space around him now and he has been awesome. And the fact that he has held up as well as he has emotionally through the first three games of this series, at times being the one calming down some veteran teammates on his team. He's been super impressive regardless of what the stats say. And he's. Yeah, he's living up to it for sure.

[Brian Windhorst]

Tough loss for the Pistons to lose at home and also on a night when Tim Hardaway and Dennis Schroeder combined to go 11 of 18 on threes. You mentioned them. Leak. Beasley didn't shoot well. Agree. But they shot the ball well at on their home court tonight and still were not able to get it done.

[Tim Bontemps]

Get it done.

[Brian Windhorst]

So, yeah, all right. I do want to talk a little bit about. So this series is far from over, but obviously the Knicks have taken back home court and they've, you know, they've, they've put their foot in the ground a little bit, might have some momentum. We'll see. I still, I still think this thing could go seven. I think it's, I mean, the Knicks.

[Tim Bontemps]

Just don't get any separation. I mean, all these games have been close. I mean, it's going to come down to, you know, I mean, Jalen won clutch player of the year. A reason the two of the three games he's played well in the fourth quarter, day one, he even had moments where he played well in game two. But, you know, this is sort of who the Knicks are. So are they going to keep operating that way? I mean, they're probably going to kick away at least another game based off.

[Brian Windhorst]

Yeah, okay, two, two interesting moments in the last minute. Maybe the last like 30 seconds. No, last 20 seconds, maybe. Knicks are up by three with the ball inbounding from the side out of bounds. Jalen Brunson is going to get the ball to get fouled. And he catches the ball basically right at the half court line, pointing away from his basket, running away with his back to hit the basket he's trying to score on. And I didn't notice it in real time instantly he was caught and fouled within two seconds. But when you watch the replay, he was, when, when the ball came into him, he was standing on, you know, in the front court and when he corralled the ball, he was in the backcourt. And obviously a over and back in that spot would have given the ball with, you know, a handful of seconds left to Detroit to drop a play, potentially take a game tying three pointer. The Pistons fans went nuts about this. They did review it in the moment and Zach Zarba, who is top three or four official in my opinion, gave the explanation to the crowd and then gave the expl. The same explanation essentially with a little bit more detail in a pool interview after the game. But he, he, but Bontemps, he cited a rule that I had that I was not aware of. And I'm not a rule chapter and verse guy, but he cited a rule that I'm not aware of that I think is going to be a topic in Detroit on Friday. Yeah, I mean, you want to talk about it?

[Tim Bontemps]

Yeah, sure. I was, I was trying to pull up the pool report. I was watching it live and I, I said, and I think tweeted. At the time, I thought it was a backcourt violation. It certainly looked like he caught the ball as he was in the backcourt or going from the front court to the back court, which is by definition a backcourt violation. And this is finally, you can inbound.

[Brian Windhorst]

The ball into the backcourt, but you can't touch it in the front court.

[Tim Bontemps]

You can't catch it in the front court and then go into the back court, which is certainly what it looked like Jalen Brunson did. And rather than reading this, and I guess I can read this entire thing, the. The poor, poor question was, can you look? They're looking for clarification on this rule you cited, which he said is Rule 4, Section G, which is front court backcourt status, is not obtained until a player with the ball has established a positive position in either half.

[Brian Windhorst]

Okay. That's the key. You can stop right there.

[Tim Bontemps]

Correct. So essentially what they said was, because Jalen Brunson didn't catch the ball and stop in the front court, and he was running over the mid court line as he caught it, it was not a backcourt violation by common sense rules. To me, it was a backcourt violation. It looked like a backcourt violation. You know, momentum carrying him that way, I guess means it isn't. I feel like this has been cited in the past. I don't think it's the first time. I think there was only a handful of seconds left at the time.

[Brian Windhorst]

I'm sure that they didn't make it up. I'm sure it's a very.

[Tim Bontemps]

No, no, no for sure.

[Brian Windhorst]

I just don't. I have never heard the positive momentum verbiage before, and if I have, I forgot. But if I was a Pistons fan, I would not take that. I would not take that. You know, easily the positive momentum thing.

[Tim Bontemps]

There was a lot of booze in the Little Caesars arena crowd when they showed the replay of Jalen Brunson pretty clearly catching the ball in the front court as he was running into the backcourt, as he was going to shoot.

[Brian Windhorst]

The free, he certainly touched it in the front court and he controlled it in the front court. I don't know if he fully caught it, but I don't know. So, okay, that happened. Who knows? Just as even if they had called the turnover there, it's not like Detroit was guaranteed to hit a three. So.

[Tim Bontemps]

Okay, that's right.

[Brian Windhorst]

The other thing, that is just downright bizarre and is definitely going to be fuel for conspiracy theorists for the next 24 hours, at least it was a two point game, you know, scoring happened both ways or whatever. It's a two point game. Jalen Brunson is on the line. There is five tenths of a second remaining.

[Tim Bontemps]

Half a second.

[Brian Windhorst]

The Pistons are out of timeouts. So if Brunson makes the free throw, it's not like Detroit could call timeout and go set up a three. So Jalen does something that we have seen in basketball over the decades. He purposely misses the free throw.

[Tim Bontemps]

Well, and the funny thing is it, it looked like there was confusion about what he should do because he kept looking over to the bench. At one point, it looked like the bench told him to miss it. Then they cut over to his father, Rick Brunson, who was sitting there pretty clearly, it looked like saying, make it, make it. Then he didn't make it. And you can lay out what happened after that.

[Brian Windhorst]

Okay, so he didn't make it.

[Tim Bontemps]

He hit the rim and it popped up in the air.

[Brian Windhorst]

Okay.

[Tim Bontemps]

But no one touched it.

[Brian Windhorst]

No one touched it. The clock starts and game buzzer happens, obviously split second later, but nobody touched it.

[Tim Bontemps]

Which for people to. I'm sure everyone listening knows this, but the rule on that is it's not. The clock doesn't start when it hits the rim. The clock starts when someone touches the ball off a free throw in that situation.

[Brian Windhorst]

Right. So, okay, why did they award Detroit the ball though?

[Tim Bontemps]

So I checked on this with the league just to make sure that we would have the right answer for the podcast as an intrepid worker, unlike our guy who is not here. And I asked why, why was the. Why was it ruled in the way that it was? And in an instance like that where there is a clock malfunction, the ball goes to the team that was in imminent possession of, was going to be in imminent possession of getting it. Now for again, for people that didn't see this, Jalen misses this free throw. Not surprisingly, all of the Knicks aren't on the free throw line because the whole point is to foul the pist and you missed in that spot in theory because you have to catch it and then shoot it in a half a second with no timeouts.

[Brian Windhorst]

That rule makes perfect sense because you don't want the guy to miss a free throw and you have a jump ball and then all of a sudden you get a free possession, right?

[Tim Bontemps]

So, so they ended up. So they end up ruling the ball as a side out because the Pistons were going to get the ball, Right? But here's can't like redo the free throw. But the problem Is yeah, the problem is in, in that instance, if you catch the ball there by Rule 2 or 3 sec. Tenths of a second has to come off the clock. This is where the Trent Tucker rule, ironically involving the knicks came in 40 years ago because Trent Tucker hit a shot and the, the game would have ended without the 3/10 of a second rule. Which is why it's now you have to have 3/10 of the second on the clock to have enough time to get a jump shot off at the end of the game. So because they, because no time came off the clock, in theory, this would have allowed the Pistons to have a chance to have a catch and shoot to win the game.

[Brian Windhorst]

The reason Jalen purposely missed the free throw was to ensure that the Pistons couldn't have even a prayer. That's right, remove the prayer. And now not only were they was the prayer put back on the table, but while they were reviewing it, the Pistons who didn't have a timeout were.

[Tim Bontemps]

Able to trip up a play.

[Brian Windhorst]

A timeout. Now I'll point something out. You may ask yourself, well, who starts the clock? Was it the home clock operator who like somehow had previously considered this conspiracy theory and said oh, I'm going to get the Pistons aside out of bounds here. The answer is that the officials start the clock. I believe there is a fail safe where the clock operator also does it, which is I suspect might have been who started it. But the officials have a, a box, a device on their belt that starts the clock. And so it was, you know, after the game the implication. I saw an interview with Josh Hart. There may have been others. Josh Hart implicated some home cooking. You know, I mean sure, the stat, the, the crew at mid court is technically neutral. Hired by the NBA. However, it's, you know, in, in the arenas, the same people run it every day. I mean there are local people. So. All right, so I don't, I'm not sure why, I'm not sure why that that clock went off like that, but I, I would highly, highly doubt that it was a conspiracy maneuver.

[Tim Bontemps]

It wasn't a conspiracy. It just happened. Mistakes happen. And look at the end of the day, Jalen Duran threw a horrific inbounds pass to nowhere.

[Brian Windhorst]

That's right. They never tried to throw a pass.

[Tim Bontemps]

He tried to throw a pass over to the, the, the crew calling the game side at the side. He almost threw it right into the, the booth. And so it didn't matter in the Knicks went on to win the game anyway.

[Brian Windhorst]

He, he tried to throw it to Mike Breen, who was calling the game for msg.

[Tim Bontemps]

That's true. Our pal Mike Breen was there.

[Brian Windhorst]

Anyway, that was. Those were two weird events at the end of the game. I don't think either affected the outcome of the game. Even if, like I said, even if Brunson gets called for backcourt, you know.

[Tim Bontemps]

No, the next deserve. The Knicks deserve to win. Absolutely. It was fine.

[Brian Windhorst]

Okay, so that game goes to game four. Pistons in a must win. If they go down three one, I don't think they're winning three straight with two of them being at the Garden. So obviously a close series could still. I still suspect it could go seven. Okay, so that's that.

[Marc Stein]

More Hoop Collective podcast after this.

[Brian Windhorst]

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[Tim Bontemps]

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[Brian Windhorst]

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[Tim Bontemps]

Roger.

[Brian Windhorst]

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[Brian Windhorst]

Let's turn the page. Bot temps. I would like to talk about the Nuggets Clippers game.

[Tim Bontemps]

Me too. Which I got to watch that game. It was great. Super fun. Watch Dominant.

[Brian Windhorst]

As you know, this is the series I've been most keyed into.

[Tim Bontemps]

Yeah, been really excited about it.

[Brian Windhorst]

And you know, I've been like, you know, just in, just in general, this is a Clipper friendly pod.

[Tim Bontemps]

Sure. You know, the Clippers award candidacies all season. James Harden, Norm Powell.

[Brian Windhorst]

We were trying to get Norm Powell onto the all star team. Didn't happen. But you know, all right, we love.

[Tim Bontemps]

The Clippers, we love the Nuggets, we love the NBA. We like to watch NBA playoff games.

[Brian Windhorst]

And obviously Charles Barkley made some headlines on Wednesday overnight to Thursday because he mocked the NBA for putting Nuggets clippers on NBA TV while Grizzlies Thunder, which had been a 70 point differential the first two games was on the TNT main stage. As it turned out, the correct game was on the main stage.

[Tim Bontemps]

Well, Charles, Charles declared that the Pistons are going to win by a thousand tonight too. So he was missing on some.

[Brian Windhorst]

Well, one of the best things you can do is if Charles picks against your team, that's when you should. With all due respect, we love Charles.

[Tim Bontemps]

But that, that's usually a good sign for the team he picked against.

[Brian Windhorst]

If you've listened to this pod at all, you know that I routinely complain about not being able to watch three teams that I live hundreds and hundreds and hundreds of miles from when I'm here at home.

[Tim Bontemps]

The Thunder Nuggets and walls for those people.

[Brian Windhorst]

That's right. It is over 500 miles from my house to Ball Arena. It is an hour and 20 minute flight. It is the same flight distance from basically like New York to Charlotte. Okay, yeah, it's about that. Boston to Washington D.C. okay. And this NBA TV, this NBA TV blackout. And I understand that I'm about to get hot. I've been complaining about this for a decade and I'm about to get hot about it again. And I understand that it's going away that starting next year with the new television deals that this is not going to be a thing that if you have Amazon prime and if you have a. A cable subscription, well, I mean you might need Peacock. That's another thing that's neither here nor there. The point is you will be able, if you want to be able to get all the games in the playoffs in the regular season. But this is three nights in a row on Wednesday night or on Tuesday night. There was issues with people in Indiana because the Pacers have gone to a new. You know, the Pacers have their own. There's a new network that's not on as many cable systems and Pacers Bucks.

[Tim Bontemps]

Was on a batv also.

[Brian Windhorst]

Same issue Wednesday night in Cleveland The Cavs, they, you know, their network has been caught in the stuff and has been dropped from a lot of cable systems. And then Thursday night in Denver, where this has been a problem for years on end with altitude, the Nuggets network. I cannot understand or fathom how a playoff game can be so hard to watch.

[Tim Bontemps]

Oh, it's pathetic. I mean, this is. It's pathetic that we're talking about the fact that NBA playoff games are being blacked out. It's pathetic that regular season games are being blacked out. The blackout rule is a completely antiquated, ridiculous thing. It shouldn't exist anymore. The NBA should be fighting every way.

[Brian Windhorst]

Possible not going to exist anymore.

[Tim Bontemps]

Right? Well, but it doesn't matter. It's probably going to exist in a regular season. And it just. This has been an ongoing, massive problem for the league and a, frankly, a black eye for the league. The Denver Nuggets situation with altitude has been an absolute embarrassment for the league for years. Nikola Jokic has been probably the most exciting one, if not the most exciting player in the league, one of the three most exciting players in the league for six, seven years. And for the vast majority of that time, the vast majority of people in Denver couldn't watch the games. I mean, it's just. It's absurd. And it's completely absurd that we're talking about this with playoff games. What are we doing here? Like, come on. This is crazy.

[Brian Windhorst]

529 miles from where I'm sitting right now to ballerina crazy. I mean, and by the way, crazy.

[Tim Bontemps]

For the people, if you live in Denver, to have the game being blacked out. Show the damn game on NBA tv. What are we doing? This is insane.

[Brian Windhorst]

Well, like I said, this is going to be resolved next year, but it's not resolved today. 465, by the way, had it been the inverse, let's say that they didn't do it this way. And I could have watched this game had the Thunder game been on NBA TV. I'm 465 miles where I'm sitting right now from the Paycom Center. Also blacked out and would have been blacked out if it was on NBA tv.

[Tim Bontemps]

And look, whichever game they picked, you wouldn't have been able to watch it.

[Brian Windhorst]

I'm in a weird spot in the middle of the country. You know, that like, you know, the NBA is not going to look at their. Look at this and say, boy, we're. We're worried about.

[Tim Bontemps]

But it doesn't matter, man. There shouldn't be a single fan in Denver that's not able to watch the Nuggets play in a playoff game like that. That is insane.

[Brian Windhorst]

Certainly people who are literally another time zone away.

[Tim Bontemps]

But I, I'm talking about in the market. If you have SPAN in Cleveland, you. There's no reason you shouldn't have been able to see that game. Same thing with the Pacers on Tuesday. Same thing with Denver on Thursday.

[Brian Windhorst]

Well, look, the concept is that they're protecting their, Their local tv.

[Tim Bontemps]

Yeah.

[Sponsor]

And they.

[Brian Windhorst]

And guess what? The local TV has fallen through the cracks. It's.

[Tim Bontemps]

It's.

[Brian Windhorst]

It's too hard to get. And, and really very. And. And I'm reacting to this guy. I couldn't watch this game. But people in Cleveland last night were really upset that they couldn't watch the game. And I know, and they should be.

[Tim Bontemps]

It's insane.

[Brian Windhorst]

I know that. It's not a quote unquote new thing, by the way. I assume in Miami too. I didn't see the reaction in Miami, but the Miami fans would have had the same problem. I'm not sure.

[Tim Bontemps]

It's just crazy that we're talking about any playoff game that fans cannot watch the game. I'm getting things for true TV and TNT show in the same game. Put one of the games on true tv. What are we doing? All of this is crazy. It's just, it's ridiculous on a thousand levels that we're sitting here talking about fans not being able to watch their teams play in playoff games.

[Brian Windhorst]

So. And by the way, I am aware that I can get access to the games in other ways. Either a, through some sort of illegal stream, which, considering I work for a cable provider or cable company, or, you know, a company that puts itself on cable, I can't endorse that, nor do that. I'm not going to do that. That hurts my company.

[Tim Bontemps]

I can't figure out how to do it. Let's be honest, folks.

[Brian Windhorst]

I'm not denying that, but I'm not even going to try. The second thing is, yes, the NBA has given. Has offered me special access to watch this VIP stream. I don't want the VIP stream. I pay for league pass. I pay well.

[Tim Bontemps]

And guess what? The VIP stream doesn't help. It doesn't help average Joe fan who's at home and wants to watch the Nuggets.

[Brian Windhorst]

This is what I'm talking about. I pay for league pass on YouTube TV like everybody else. I pay the full price. And therefore I, I, as a paying customer, I can say what I want to say about it.

[Tim Bontemps]

We like to Watch the games. We love to watch playoff games.

[Brian Windhorst]

So I am somebody who is a premium subscriber to NBA basketball, and I cannot watch a playoff game in what could have been a vital game. So I cannot tell you what really happened in this game. I watched 0 seconds of it. I could look at the box score and say, boy, it looks like Michael Porter's shoulder was really bothering him because.

[Tim Bontemps]

He did not look. He did not look great trying. There was one point when he got thrown a pass and he had to try to use that left arm and it didn't look great. Wasn't looking good.

[Brian Windhorst]

It must. It must have been a pretty special performance in the first ever playoff game.

[Tim Bontemps]

The Dome, the. The Toilet bowl crowd was into the game. Clippers were banging threes left and right. Russell Westbrook had a foot issue that then maybe turned into a hip issue. It was unclear exactly what the issue was. He can come back in the game, and Denver is in a lot of trouble. Like it. The Clippers have been great. They were great in this game.

[Brian Windhorst]

Was good Again, the Clippers very easily could have won game one. This could be 100.

[Tim Bontemps]

Should have won game one.

[Brian Windhorst]

This could be three zero. This could be three. Zero, right? Yeah, they blew it. And, you know, this is. The Clippers are a buzz saw at the moment. They are 20 and 4 in the last 24 games and very easily could have been 21 and 3 because like I said, they could have easily won Game one. The concern that I would have as a Denver fan, in addition to the health of Porter and Westbrook, is that Jokic and Murray, like Jokic, goes 9 of 14, 23 points, 13 rebounds, 13 assists, has just two turnovers because, you know, in game two, when he had. I think he had seven, he had seven turnovers. So he cut that down. That's not an elite Jokic game. But, you know, it's not like he went 2 of 7 and Jamal Murray goes 8 of 15, scores 23 points with four assists. He did have three turnovers. Those are. That's not a dud performance by those two guys.

[Tim Bontemps]

No.

[Brian Windhorst]

And they got beat by 30.

[Tim Bontemps]

Yeah. I mean, it's. It's rough. And look, I've been saying it since before the series started. The. The. The Denver has no player that can guard James Harden. Like, for as great as Kawhi has been. And quiet was good again tonight. James Harden is beginning whatever he wants throughout this series. And if James Harden is having good game after good game, the Clippers are an extraordinarily tough team to beat. And it's, it's. I don't look, you know, knock on wood. Did the Clippers stay healthy? Obviously, that's the thing. Hanging over this series like it has been for a long time with the Clippers. But barring injury, it's very hard to see the way back in the series for Denver. They just, they do not look like they can keep up with this Clipper team. And now the games are going to start coming every other day. We'll see if Westbrook's able to play. This is a not very deep nugget team. There's a lot of guys that Ty Luke can go to on the Clippers. He's playing nine or ten guys a game. Like, it's, it's, it's going to be a challenge.

[Brian Windhorst]

I don't know if this was, if this was a product of garbage time again. I didn't get to really watch it. Peyton Watson, who is, you know, especially with Michael Porter ailing a key player and a guy that they really lean on, I mean, this is a guy they, you know, they. There was, you know, there were multiple reasons why they haven't signed some of their veterans, but, but one of them was that they believed that, you know, their young guys, Christian Brown, Peyton Watson, their young wings could step up. Payton Watson played 18 minutes in this game, was minus 29. I'm not. Again, I didn't see him play. Maybe that's a product of circumstance. That's not what you need. You needed Peyton Watson to have a big game, you know, and I'm not saying you need to score 30. I'm saying they needed, they needed production from Peyton Watson and -29. Not what you need.

[Tim Bontemps]

Yeah, I mean, yeah, I mean, they got a lot of problems. I mean, he was minus 17 in the first half and six.

[Brian Windhorst]

Oh, boy, oh, boy. That's just not good.

[Tim Bontemps]

You know, it's. It. The Clippers are a buzzsaw. And look, Nicole Jokic is unbelievable, not counting them out, but this is going to take something special for this series to turn around in Denver's favor. With Porter banged up, Westbrook banged up and he only played nine minutes, never came back in the game. They got to play in less than 48 hours on Saturday. I, it's. It's going to be a challenge because this Clipper team is awesome.

[Brian Windhorst]

Also, Norm Powell has been kind of in a slump to the point where, you know, he's been one of the great stories of the NBA season. Some people were calling for him to have his playing time reduced. He has put together some promising games or at least promising stretches and he had 20 points tonight. And when, when, when that, that. By the way, that starting lineup that the Clippers have assembled, like the way that they're playing, the way that they played down the stretch, which was Chris Dunn playing alongside James Harden in the backcourt, Dunn being an excellent on ball defender. And then you've got Zubach as your. Who's playing the best basketball of his career, defending your back line. And then you, Norm, and then you've got the wings. Who can score like that? Who can. You know, Powell more of a three point shooter than Kawhi is. Although Kawhi has been shooting three pointers freaking great for the last month.

[Tim Bontemps]

Then they got Nico Batum and Derek Jones coming in off the bench. Guys who can hit threes and know how to. Smart players.

[Brian Windhorst]

Yeah, Batum was a little bit banged up. He is now back. He had four threes in this one. And you know, look, Bogey Bogdanovich, friend of the pod. Like he didn't have a good game tonight, but he's been a real good pickup for them. You're right. They go, Ty can go nine deep and not worry. And so again, I would say a must win game for, for Denver because while you respect Jokic, the idea that the Clippers, who have lost four games in six weeks or whatever, are going to lose three in a row, I don't like it. You know, obviously it's happened in the past. They've blown games, they've blown leads.

[Tim Bontemps]

They've blown a 31 lead to Denver in particular.

[Brian Windhorst]

Yes, I realized that I would just, I would not want to be in that position. I would say no. I would advise the Nuggets to win game four.

[Tim Bontemps]

Yes.

[Brian Windhorst]

All right, before McMahon joins us, here's a couple other things in the league that we need to discuss. First off, we have MRI results on Jimmy Butler. We're going to talk about John Morant in a minute when McMahon gets on here. John Morant and Jimmy Butler had eerily similar falls on back to back nights where Butler was going for a rebound.

[Tim Bontemps]

They both got their legs taken out from underneath them under the basket and.

[Brian Windhorst]

Fell like on their pelvis from like high. Comfortably high.

[Tim Bontemps]

Yeah. Both of them are very squeamish looking injuries.

[Brian Windhorst]

So Jimmy, I mean, I guess it's good he didn't break his hip or break his tailbone because by the way, we saw Chad Holmgren have a fall kind of similar to this.

[Tim Bontemps]

I mean it's almost the same exact play. I mean he laid it on his hip rather than his side or on his. On his pelvis. But yeah, I mean, that was how he broke his hip earlier this year.

[Brian Windhorst]

So, you know, so I guess it's good news. Jimmy Butler did not come out of this MRI with them saying there's a hairline fracture of his pelvis or something for sure. But seams reported like it's. It's a significant contusion. You know, he's got a. He's got a.

[Tim Bontemps]

He's got a deep bruise and he's, you know, his status is up in the air for Saturday's game three.

[Brian Windhorst]

Right. So I believe, I believe just Jeff Stotts at in street clothes on X, he's got this amazing injury database. And obviously, you know, hip contusions, or in this case, it's a glute contusion, they're not all created equal. But he. His database says guys, you know, miss between two and three games and, you know, usually a week on this. Okay, so maybe it's not. It's. You're not gonna do that because it's the playoffs, but Jimmy Butler is going to be either probably likely limited or out of game three. And, you know, they are going to be back home in San Francisco. But Steve Kerr said it bon temps. He's like, if we don't have Jimmy, we have to change, like, almost everything we do.

[Tim Bontemps]

It's hard to see how their rotation. Yeah. It's hard to see how they can win this series, that Jimmy Butler isn't right. Like, it's just very hard. And you saw it in Game two. I mean, they're just. This is a. If you have Steph and Jimmy, right, and they are controlling the ball for 48 minutes, and then you have all these role players sort of filling in gaps around them. It.

[Brian Windhorst]

The.

[Tim Bontemps]

The warriors have kind of a finely tuned machine with those guys that's working really well and it's give. It gives them enough offense to kind of carry it through. But if they just have staff and then not much else, and you're playing against this Rockets team that is not an offensive juggernaut by any means, but is just this big, physical mauling team that's just going to make every game an absolutely hellacious rock fight, that's asking a lot to try to drag your way through that for another five games if Jimmy isn't right. And I mean, Even in Game 1, the warriors more or less controlled the game, but they still, even with Jimmy, weren't putting it away. And it was still a 10 point game and Jimmy and Steph were really good. So we'll see. I mean, we've seen Jimmy fight through a bunch of stuff which certainly wouldn't shock me if he plays well and finds a way to get through, get out there and play. But it's a, it's a concerning development, to say the least, and I, I don't think the warriors can survive this series without him.

[Brian Windhorst]

Well, we know that Steve Kerr doesn't want to play Jonathan Kaminga. Actions over words. He's. He took him out of the rotation. He had to play him 26 minutes after Butler got hurt and he was 4:12.

[Tim Bontemps]

So he's got to play now. I mean, the truth is. The truth is I defend Steve Kerr on not playing Jonathan Kaminga with their current iteration of their team because Jonathan Kaminga is a guy who needs the ball in his hands. And if you have the ball in Jimmy and Steph's hands, you don't need to have the ball in Jonathan Kaminka's hands. But if Jimmy Butler can't play, this is a huge opportunity for Jonathan Kaminga. They're going to need him to produce for them. And if Jimmy can't play, he's probably going to have a really big role in Game three. And for a guy who's looking at restricted free agency this summer in the last few weeks have certainly not gone in the way he hoped they would. Well, here's a chance to really step up and show what you're capable of doing in a really big spot and see how it goes.

[Brian Windhorst]

Yeah, you are at least going to a guy who's got a lot of talent and has had big moments in the NBA. So if indeed they have to go to him without Jimmy. But the Jimmy Butler injury now is one of the biggest things going in the Western Conference. So we'll see what happens. You know, the other thing is you may need Steph to have a monster one of these games where he hits 11 threes and scores four.

[Tim Bontemps]

He's going to, he's going to have to do that probably anyway, but he certainly is. If Jimmy isn't playing and he just.

[Brian Windhorst]

Didn'T, you know, look, he's had plenty of good games in Houston. He just didn't have a good game. Like, you know, Houston gets credit for that, etc. But like, they can't serve if Jimmy is out. They can't survive stuff being average. They need stuff to be great. And it's harder when that's the case. Okay, well, we will be monitored. There was a big award that came out on Thursday, Cav's Corner. Certainly a big award for Evan Mobley, who won defensive player of the Year and triggered a $45 million contract bonus over the next five years. I was at the Cavs game last night in Cleveland and, you know, we asked Devin about, you know, whether it was on his mind. Of course it was. And, you know, he said, I set this goal out at the beginning of the year and I worked hard for it and I deserved it. And I deserve it. And, you know, for a guy who doesn't really talk a lot about himself and certainly not with any kind of force, he's got a little more comfortable.

[Tim Bontemps]

Doing that this year.

[Brian Windhorst]

You're right.

[Tim Bontemps]

I went, I went up to the young fella in Boston a couple months ago after he. He declared at the All Star Game that the best player in the world could either be here, Victor Wembanyama. I said, evan, where. Where was that? I did not see that one coming. Yeah, Donovan Mitchell gave me some encouragement to, to do that. And Evan, Evan was happy to talk about it. Well, Donovan, fun to see him grow.

[Brian Windhorst]

In that manner, you know, Donovan said, well, you know, he and Victor are going to be trading this award back and forth for the next decade. I'm not sure that's true, but Evan's got one now that Victor doesn't. You know, that's true. I always felt that this award was going to be the highest contested of all of them. We'll see what the. Where the MVP shakes out, you know. But.

[Tim Bontemps]

Seven people will not be getting a first place vote for mvp. Seven people got a first place vote for defensive player, right?

[Brian Windhorst]

That's exactly right. Yeah. So Evan had 35 of the first place votes. Dyson Daniels, who finished second, had 25.

[Tim Bontemps]

I will also just say Dyson Daniels, first team O NBA defender for me, had a great year. We're going to talk about Thunder Grizzlies later. Anybody who watched Thunder Grizzlies watch the way Ox Caruso played should not have been voting for Dyson Daniels defense player of the year because he ain't the best perimeter defender in the league.

[Brian Windhorst]

Wasn't eligible.

[Tim Bontemps]

I know he wasn't eligible. I'm just saying that that guy in that game was truly game breaking in a way.

[Brian Windhorst]

We have to wait for Mr. McMahon to speak on that.

[Tim Bontemps]

We'll get into that more. We got. We got a lot to talk about with this Evan Mobley thing. So continue.

[Brian Windhorst]

So, yeah, so Evan Mobley wins Dice Daniels second, which. That's a Terrific showing for Dyson Daniels, considering.

[Tim Bontemps]

Great year for him.

[Brian Windhorst]

He was not on the board and, and you know, did make my first team all defense, so I assume he'll be. Well, I shouldn't assume, but, you know, considering he's going to make.

[Tim Bontemps]

He's going to make all defense for sure.

[Brian Windhorst]

Draymond Green finished third. He was a finalist. That's not a surprise. I think I would have. I was actually pleasantly surprised that Dyson finished second. I felt that. That Evan was going to win and there had been.

[Tim Bontemps]

I was certainly expecting it.

[Brian Windhorst]

Yeah, I. But I thought Draymond was going to finish second with his late kick. So I was actually happy with the voters. You know, no offense, I'm not trying to throw shade, but I, I didn't think Draymond was. Was first or second.

[Tim Bontemps]

He was not on my first team. All defense.

[Marc Stein]

That's.

[Tim Bontemps]

I'll just put it at that.

[Brian Windhorst]

And Lou Dort, who I had on my ballot. I did vote for Evan in the end. I had Blue Dort third. I actually had. If it's a Zubac second.

[Tim Bontemps]

I had. I had Zubot first and Zubac Mobley and I believe Jaren third.

[Brian Windhorst]

You had. You were one of four people that voted.

[Tim Bontemps]

Yeah. My votes look good. I feel pretty good about my vote with the way this first round has played out. But we should talk about, I think the most important part of this award, which is not Evan getting it.

[Brian Windhorst]

Yeah. So the 45 million dollar bonus, it's terrific for him, but it adds about eight, seven and a half, $8 million to the Cavs payroll for next year. And 7.8. They're going to be into the second apron and they have a really important free agent in Tide Jerome and they also have Sam Merrill, who is. Who is, you know, not nothing. The chances of them resigning both are hard to see. You know, you never know. You don't want to make it.

[Tim Bontemps]

Listen, they've got eight players under contract right now and they're at $210 million. And the second apron is 212.9. And that's not counting Dean Wade's six and a half million which they will be picking up. Which they will be.

[Brian Windhorst]

They probably would try to extend them and all.

[Tim Bontemps]

Actually it includes most of it includes most of it. I think. I think he only has a couple million of that is non guaranteed. But still, you're talking about nine players then. And Craig Porter, who I assume they'll also be picking up his contract is according to Bobby's stuff, looks like about A million guaranteed. So if you put those guys both in there, you got 10 players, you're already into the second apron. That's before you're paying Ty Jerome, who's going to be a, you know, guy who's going to be looking for an 8 figure per year contract. Sam Merrill, who is on a minimum and certainly could get a raise like if you resign those guys, which just a matter how much money Dan Gilbert wants to spend. He's got money to spend. You're still talking about becoming an extraordinarily expensive team unless you start subtracting other pieces, which is the other thing that the cast could try to do.

[Brian Windhorst]

Yeah. So look, there's, there's people in their organization who've said to me we absolutely want, we're so excited that we gave Evan this contract. He's going to be an all NBA player and a defensive player of the year. Maybe. But this bonus could cost us a player that's just, you know, it's just, you know, I'm not sure what the tide Jerome market's going to be. You know, I've, I've talked to some teams who are like oh, because I. Because you know, the mid level exception is a full mid level. The non taxpayer mid level is 14 million and not that many teams are going to have that because if you spend that whole thing you can't go into the first apron. And there's a sort of a. But some will. Yes, for sure.

[Tim Bontemps]

Well, and look, this is where this is the other side of the DeAndre Hunter trade. The DeAndre Hunter trade added a lot of money to the books for the Cavs and DeAndre Hunter is a good player but it made them a lot more expensive in these out years. And look, the other thing is too like Isaac Coral contract is also a pretty hefty contract for a guy that's their 8th or 9th best player. So one way or the other there's going to be some decisions that the Cavs have to make this summer. And again, Evans earned it. He's probably going to be a second team all NBA player too. So he's going to get this money one way or the other. But I mean it's, it's going to cost the Cavs a lot of Dan Gilbert dollars and it's going to cause some real decision making about what they're trying to do. And look, we might see how the things go over the next month and a half for this team too and that could help dictate how some of this goes depending on how Guys play and how this looks and what it is, the Cavs decide they need to prioritize.

[Brian Windhorst]

So Mobley had a good game in Game 2 against the Heat on Wednesday. He had 20 points. Had a couple of coast to coast plays where he was, you know, either got a rebound or picked up a loose ball or whatever and really showed, you know, really showed off an aggression that he had and had also hit three threes in that game. His outside shots better. You know something, we haven't talked about the Cav series much, but just since I've been on it and since we're waiting for McMahon, I'll just say this. Donovan Mitchell got a lot of, we talked a lot about him. He got a lot of credit this year for taking a step back, fewer minutes, fewer shots. Opening up space for Darius Garland, who had an all star season, opening up space for Evan Mobley. But when the chips are down, he's still a superstar. And he had 30 points in both the first game one and game two. And in game two he had 17 in the fourth quarter when the Heat were making a big comeback, it cut the lead from 19 down to 2. So lest you think that Donovan Mitchell is not got sit still in the tank, the issue with Donovan has always been the consistency.

[Tim Bontemps]

He was consistently, he was consistently taken apart the Miami Heat in the fourth quarter that game too, when it certainly looked like the, the Heat were gonna have a chance to do what the Thunder did to the Grizzlies tonight. And obviously if the Cavs had lost that game, obviously they were, they were still going to be heavy favorites to win the series. But it wouldn't have exactly looked great for the Cavs after they had kind of a middling performance in game one. Had this, then they had this incredible first half of game two. Look like they were going to blow the Heat out of the water. But then Donovan Mitchell just took over and made shot after shot after shot in the fourth quarter and just iced the game away. And that's why, you know, for as great years Darius Garland had, as great years Evan Mobley had, there's a reason why Donovan Mitchell was the one getting MVP votes and the reason why he was the one who was in contention for a first team all NBA spot, it's because if you're around the Cavs at all, which I have been and you have been, Donovan Mitchell is the straw that stirs drink for that team on every level. And you saw it in every way in the fourth quarter of that game. And this team is going to go obviously Evan Moby's great, Garland's great. Kenny such a great job. By the way, the Kenny Atkinson face at Pat Frayer on the challenge on the Tyler Hero.

[Brian Windhorst]

Yeah, if you saw that on social.

[Tim Bontemps]

Media, it was one of the moments of the season. It was unbelievable.

[Brian Windhorst]

It was a, a call in the last minute of the game and was over possession and Kenny was incredulous that that they had missed the call and he, he, he he. I don't know if he saw the replay and knew what he was going to do or his bench yelled to.

[Tim Bontemps]

Him look like his bench and it looked like he was incredulous at the call and sounded like his bench informed him that he was going to win the challenge. And he, he gave a face like a I don't even know what but it was, it was perfect. And then naturally he won the challenge, which made it the perfect He's a.

[Brian Windhorst]

Very nice guy, but at the end of the day he, he is from Long island, so his New Yorker in that moment.

[Tim Bontemps]

He's got a lot of New York in him and there was a lot of New York in that face and that mannerism and it was as somebody who spent a lot of time in New York, it was great.

[Marc Stein]

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[Brian Windhorst]

Well, he's not always there when you call, but he's always on time. Here's our man band McMahon beaming in from Memphis exactly at the time of the podcast.

[Tim Bontemps]

Only took him. Only took him two hours to to get through his work. Post game, dude. Record time. Record man.

[Marc Stein]

Howdy partners. Screw you, Bond Tims.

[Tim Bontemps]

Here we go.

[Marc Stein]

It's been 30 minutes. It's been 30 minutes since the host game availability is wrapped up, man.

[Tim Bontemps]

I'm just saying.

[Marc Stein]

I was saying baby, the game ended.

[Tim Bontemps]

And I said yeah, we're gonna start the pot around 2:30. And here it is.

[Marc Stein]

Listen to you yap like a buffoon for about five minutes here.

[Tim Bontemps]

You just, you just also don't blame me.

[Marc Stein]

Blame Tumbleson, by the way. Yeah, by the way, here's something from.

[Tim Bontemps]

The shout out to Teddy Tumbleson, big fan of the pod.

[Marc Stein]

Well, and listen, Teddy tells me this.

[Brian Windhorst]

Is where I have to step in and say he's talking about Matt Tumbleson.

[Tim Bontemps]

The head of the PR guy for the.

[Marc Stein]

Yeah, he's friend of the pod.

[Tim Bontemps]

Good guy.

[Marc Stein]

Yeah.

[Tim Bontemps]

So fan of the pod.

[Marc Stein]

So while Royce Young is chief of propaganda, he is like senior vice president of, of propaganda. His son Teddy, big friend of the pod, was wearing his blue Isaiah Joe jersey during game two and tells me they are undefeated when he wears that jersey. So.

[Brian Windhorst]

Well, with all due respect, they've only lost about six games all year. So it's not, it's not, you know, I mean, you know, no offense, I.

[Tim Bontemps]

Would like to know how many jerseys Teddy has. That's when I, when I probably some.

[Brian Windhorst]

Other guys he's undefeated in. There's always some other jerseys he's worn they're undefeated in as well.

[Marc Stein]

Well, I'll tell you what, they're undefeated when they trail by 26 at halftime in playoff games this year.

[Tim Bontemps]

That is true.

[Marc Stein]

Or playoff games, period. And I think that will continue.

[Brian Windhorst]

All right, McMahon, give us the report from Memphis. We haven't talked about the game at all. We, we. We've held off to wait for you.

[Tim Bontemps]

And you're waiting for you.

[Marc Stein]

I mean, pretty simple. The Grizzlies couldn't miss until they were missing their superstar. John Morant goes out. They take a 29 point lead on the very next possession. Went out with a pretty scary fall. Scotty Pippen Jr. Who was on fire in the first half, is on a fast break. Lou Dort's in pursuit. He tosses it back to Jaw Jaw goes up for what you know, might have been a highlight. Dort kind of swipes at the ball, accidentally undercuts jaw. Jaw fell. All we know is it is a hip injury. You know, we. We don't know severity. We don't know. I mean, to. Almost all said he didn't even know which hip it was, but jaw was on crutches when he got back out there. Finally.

[Brian Windhorst]

Look, they're down. Three. Zero. They're down. Sorry. I hope Jaws okay. I hope jaw's okay.

[Marc Stein]

Hope so too. The odds of him playing Saturday and it's in an afternoon game or awfully slim, I would say.

[Tim Bontemps]

He. He's not. He's not going to play and their season's over and that. That's not. That's not the job quitting or something. He just not going to be ready to go. That's.

[Marc Stein]

He was on. He was on crutches when he hobbled out to the tunnel in the fourth quarter. And then listen, like, they didn't have jaw. They didn't have any hope in the second half to do anything. Offensively, they had more turnovers than buckets by a fairly wide margin in the second half. 13 turnovers, 9 of 36 from the floor. And then the Thunder after not being able to hit anything, especially Chad Holin. Holin had one point in the first half as he said it was an S storm by him in the first half. And then D. Wait, hold on.

[Brian Windhorst]

Timeout. Did he say that on the. On the mic? Did he use the S word on. You know, on the record?

[Marc Stein]

If you spell out the whole thing, then you can't like it. You might as well cuss.

[Brian Windhorst]

Okay, just. I'm going somewhere with this. Did he say the word on the record? The reason that's funny you didn't hear this because in the post game interview with tnt, he said damn and then apologized for his language.

[Marc Stein]

Well, he did not apologize. He apologized for. For the actual S storm of the first half. In.

[Brian Windhorst]

In a way, it's funny that, you know, he. He says damn and then, oh, I'm sorry, you know, but then, you know, goes into the press conference and is just firing expletives, so.

[Marc Stein]

Well, anyways, he was firing threes in the third quarter. The man had 16. Third quarter dagger called a play for him coming right out of the. Right out of the half, knocked that down. Then he caught fire later in that quarter and dude, Alex Caruso. Oh, my God.

[Brian Windhorst]

Well, yeah, you could talk about that.

[Marc Stein]

What a defensive. Like the. Obviously the whole Thunder team. The second half was a defensive Masterpiece. But Caruso was just wreaking havoc all over the place.

[Brian Windhorst]

All you need to know about the Thunder defense is that there's times when they take Shay Gildas Alexander out of the game for defensive purposes, and he would be a top two defender on almost every team in the league.

[Marc Stein]

And he's not a top six defender on this.

[Brian Windhorst]

Right, because he's the quote, unquote. Like, it's funny to me. Like, the Grizzlies at times targeted him down the stretch of this game, and.

[Tim Bontemps]

It'S laughable, like, to target because he had five fouls. I mean, you're right.

[Marc Stein]

But like, Shay will tell you, he gets targeted a lot defensive. There's a couple reasons. One, because who the hell else you gonna go at? And two, you know, you're trying to. Trying to make him work on that. And let me just read. I'm still locked out of slack despite my best efforts, but not me too, buddy. Old stats Williams, though, fired me some emails, and man, is he good. Fourth quarter with Caruso, Dort, and Holmgren all on the floor, which was seven minutes the quarter. The Grizzlies were 1 of 12 from the floor. Oh, of seven on threes, and had four turnovers, no assists. Lou Dort. Dort in this game, according to genius iq, which apparently is what we're calling second Spectrum these days. They. I guess they got their master's degree or some crap. But According to Genius IQ, the Grizzlies were O of 13 when Dort was the closest defender in Game 3. It's the most field goal attempts defended without a single bucket by a defender in a playoff game since player tracking began in 2013-14. And Dort wasn't their best defender in this game. Caruso, I'm like, dude, Caruso was all over the place and poor. Like Scotty Pippen Jr. Had 23 points in the first half, was hitting everything, 5 of 6 from 3. He couldn't do anything in the second half like case, and Wallace was all over him. And then he's trying to guard Shay on the other. By the way, Shea has not had a good shooting game in this series.

[Brian Windhorst]

I would say he's been below. Now, keep in mind, his standard is very high.

[Tim Bontemps]

Yeah, he's been saying he's been below average.

[Brian Windhorst]

He's been below average. He. So he, he. He was 10 of 26 in this game. He came into the. The first two games, he shot 33% combined, so I don't think that improved that much. He's definitely under 40% he's averaging 24 points again. He had 31 tonight, which seems good, but that's below his average. So they're three. They're up three zero when Shea hasn't even been average yet, much less good.

[Marc Stein]

Jaylen Williams has been good. Chet Holman in the second half was unbelievable. But again, you know, Caruso, the way he put it was defenses are superpower. And that superpower was on full blast in the second half. And look, man, like, I'll give the Grizzlies credit. Like, they easily could have come out. And by the way, there's a bunch of empty seats. It was nowhere close to a sellout. Like, you know, the odds of them making a series out of this were awfully slim coming into tonight. But they came out and had energy. They were hooping, showed a lot of pride, shooting the hell out of the ball in the first half. Jaw went out and that just like popped the balloon. But then, you know, the, the Grizzly still had to play. Damn. Like, they came back from 29 points down, 26 in the second half.

[Brian Windhorst]

Yeah, you may say to yourself, how does a team blow a 30 points point lead? And it was. It's pretty simple. They literally couldn't make a shot. And the Grizzly and the Thunder were making every shot.

[Marc Stein]

Well, they couldn't. They couldn't make a shot. And on way too many possessions, they couldn't get a shot because it's turnover after turnover after turnover, which the Thunder forced more turnovers than anybody in the league. And when they do force turnovers, it's death because they're so damn good at converting steals into transition buckets on the other end. There was a lot of that. But, you know, this is like, I mean, the Thunder have had one awful half, and in the other five halves of this series, they have outscored the Grizzlies by 102 points.

[Tim Bontemps]

Well, and listen, it's worth pointing out yet again that the Chicago Bulls traded Alex Crusoe this past summer for Josh Giddey. They got nothing else in the trade. And Josh Giddey was so bad in the playoffs last year, after the whole year being defended as a guy who was a core piece for the Thunder going forward, that he was benched and barely was playing and then is shipped to Chicago for a guy who, in just the first couple of games of this series has showed why he is vastly more impactful player when the games really matter, and was absolutely obliterating the Grizzlies in the second half of this game, just literally taking the ball away from Scottie Pippen and Desmond Bain. And these guys down the stretch creating fast layups all over the place. Stole the ball right out of Jared Jackson. Jerusalem's hands on a drive. He's guarding Jaren Jackson Jr. In the post. I mean he was everywhere as a one man wrecking crew.

[Marc Stein]

He's their best defender Jon Jaren Jackson Jr.

[Tim Bontemps]

Yes.

[Marc Stein]

You know, a lot of it is, as he says, doing the work early, not let him get the spots. But like Jaren, can't you, like you're taking a pretty big risk to dribble.

[Tim Bontemps]

The ball, by the way. His hands are so strong and so fast.

[Marc Stein]

And I'm telling you though, he might not have the best hands defensively on the team. Case and Wallace's hands are unreal. Like this was the fourth quarter was a, like just a defensive clinic by Caruso in particular. But like, I, I, I can't tell you how good Case and Wallace is for a second year.

[Tim Bontemps]

He's, he's awesome.

[Marc Stein]

Who's a one and done guy on the, on the defensive end, he's awesome too.

[Tim Bontemps]

But it was just a, it was just the starkest reminder sitting here watching this game of just the malpractice for the Bulls that that trade was and the fact that there's a guy in this contract that should have had immense value and they did not capitalize on it. And it was a, we said it the moment the trade was made. It was a coup for the Thunder. And you look at where this team is at and how incredible their defense is and the fact that they can roll them out there for 22, 23 minutes, they don't have to tax them minutes wise. And you can go out there and play at max effort and do everything they need them to do. I mean it's 20 many reasons why they should be the heavy favorites to get out of the West.

[Marc Stein]

They are.

[Brian Windhorst]

Second half, Memphis, 9 of 36 shooting, 3 of 20 on threes, 13 turnovers.

[Marc Stein]

Yeah, after going 11 of 22 on threes in the first half. And by the way, you know, Jalen Williams got, I don't know if he got a lot of heat, but like he, he did not have a good playoffs last year, you know, especially in the second round. He's having a hell of a playoffs this year. Scored 20 plus, you know, 20, 24, 26. Shot better than 50 from the floor.

[Brian Windhorst]

You probably talked to him about this McMahon. He was, you know, he seems like a mild mannered guy. He really, really suffered like personally. Really took a Lot of blame on himself.

[Marc Stein]

Yeah.

[Brian Windhorst]

And really tried to go into last summer and really try to examine what happened. And like, you know, I remember him talking about this at media day. I mean, obviously that's a long time ago, but he, he told his coaches, like, show me. Give me the bad film. Show me the bad place. Show me the worst of the worst. Do not hide it from me. Show me where I messed up.

[Marc Stein]

Yeah.

[Brian Windhorst]

And so he's obviously had a great year, All Star, you know, decent chance to be on the all NBA team.

[Marc Stein]

Gonna get a big, really good chance.

[Brian Windhorst]

Gonna get. Yeah, he's gonna get a big contract. Like, he's, he's had a great year, but there's no doubt the mindset he's had already in the playoffs. He's like, this is not with, you know, who knows what will happen, but he's doing everything he can to make sure that doesn't repeat what happened.

[Marc Stein]

And the whole season was for him about building up to put himself in a position where he could get it done in the playoffs this year. And, you know, Dagger talked a lot about kind of appreciating the way that Jada pours himself into the developmental process, even though he's like, this is the year that he became an all Star. But like, things like his efficiency dipped a little bit, but just like, he was really kind of putting on himself. Hey, it's not about efficiency. It's about being able to, you know, attack gaps that he might have avoided or, you know, put himself in position where like, hey, against playoff defenses, you're going to have to make plays in smaller spaces sometimes. And so, you know, you're going to have to be able to finish through contact, all that kind of stuff. And so that's something that was really a point of emphasis for him throughout this year. And again, it's, it's not just the scoring efficiency. He's doing everything right now. I mean, he's, he's rebounded, he's had, you know, five plus assists in all these games. He's, I mean, he's, he won't be all defense because he's like their fourth or fifth best defender, but he's a damn good defensive player. I do also think getting Caruso Wallace continue to get better and better where they can, you know, they can rely on him more. Dort, you know, Dort finished fourth and defense player of the year voting. He'll be first team all defense, as he should be, as he should have been before. J Dub doesn't have to, like last year he had to guard Kyrie for the entire series. He's going to take the best, you know, the second best player on the, on the other team sometimes, but didn't have to do it for 40 minutes a night anymore. And I think that really is going to help him throughout these playoffs on the other end of the floor.

[Tim Bontemps]

No question. And it has to because, like, there's a reason we've talked about him all season. Like he's got to be really good on offense for them to win the title. Like, you need to have a second perimeter guy that you can really count on. You know, like Luca and Kyrie last year for Dallas Tatum and Jalen Brown for Boston. Like you go down the line. Yeah, Chad Holmgren's really good, but like you need to have that second perimeter guy that you can count on to create shots and to score and to be a guy to take some of the burden off of Shea. And if Jalen plays like he has the first three games for the next two months, the Thunder are going to be feeling pretty good about their chances.

[Marc Stein]

Yeah. Now Chet will tell you though that when he's playing with, with Hartenstein, he's a wing offensively.

[Tim Bontemps]

That is true and I, I'm a huge chat fan, but he's not running the point and.

[Marc Stein]

No, that's, no, you're right. It's in terms of, in terms of dribble creators.

[Tim Bontemps]

That's what I'm talking about.

[Marc Stein]

They've got one of probably the best in the league right now, right? I'm gonna say one of the two best. I'm not gonna, I'm not gonna. The guy who had the best season as a dribble creator this year. Him and Luke are the two best in the league. Shay, obviously I'm talking about. And then Jalen Williams, man, he's, you know, he's a very, very, he's an all star caliber dribble creator, I would say.

[Tim Bontemps]

I mean, look, he's an easy pick for all NBA for me this year and that's because he's a tremendous two way player. And now look, you know this, this team is a super young team, right? So like they're doing all this stuff ahead of schedule and you know, it's a huge opportunity for him. And all you can do is keep doing what they've been doing since October, which is just step up and keep performing night after night. That's why they went 68 and 14. It's why they're up 30 in the series. It's why they're the heavy favorites to win the west. And you know, he's, he's delivering on every bit of it.

[Brian Windhorst]

Their demeanor really never changed. It wasn't like they like poured all their energy into like trying to make this comeback. They just more methodical about it.

[Marc Stein]

Yeah, they just like, it's, it's one way to put yourself in position to make this kind of comeback is if the other team just can't score. And that's what the second half, the.

[Tim Bontemps]

Job thing, it, the jaw thing really just did suck the life out of the. You could even feel it just watching it. It just completely sucked the life out of the building too.

[Marc Stein]

Yeah, and he, he limped out there like he was down for a while. He got helped to his feet, then he limped out to the free throw line to take his free throws to give him a. You know, because if you don't, you're out for the game for sure. But he knew, he knew he was out when he like he hobbled off the floor and as he's entering the tunnel, he's like taking his jersey off. Like he knew he was done and when, you know, his teammates obviously knew he was done then and, and, and, and job, you know, he was playing well. He had 15 points and five assists in 16 minutes. And yeah, it was just talk about a deflating situation. And they like, they struggled to get the ball up the floor without him, which is a lot of not having jaw and also a lot of dealing with the best defense by a wide margin in the NBA.

[Tim Bontemps]

And those, those guys for the Thunder are just menaces.

[Marc Stein]

You know, it's like Kenny Atkinson said, playing against him is like playing against seven pit bulls. He said seven, not five. Seven.

[Brian Windhorst]

All right, well, it's gone late enough. Jackson's got a. I'm just getting warmed up, fellas. I know. Sorry. You were part time on this one.

[Tim Bontemps]

Yeah. Let's type in fingers. They said they're a little bit quicker.

[Marc Stein]

I still get full time pay, right?

[Brian Windhorst]

You got it. Your pay will remain unchanged. All right. Thank you Jackson, for staying up so late. We're setting an impossible standard here. Thank you to McMahon for working overtime. Thank you to Bon Temps. Thank you for watching. Listening to the Poop Collective. We will talk to you next week.

[Marc Stein]

Adios, amigos.