← Brian Windhorst & The Hoop Collective
Brian Windhorst & The Hoop Collective
Moves To Come For Warriors? + Is Golden State Still A Threat?
00:40:51
Hoop Collective: Moves To Come For Warriors? + What Is the Ceiling In Golden State?
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- [00:00]
Ryan Ruocco
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- [00:05]
Zach Lowe
You can Venmo that.
- [00:06]
Ryan Ruocco
Visit Venmo Me Debit to learn more. The Venmo MasterCard is issued by the Bancorp bank and a pursuant to license by Mastercard International, Inc. The card may be used everywhere. MasterCard is accepted. Venmo purchase restrictions apply.
- [00:20]
Zach Lowe
Hello. Welcome to the Hoop Collective podcast. We talk about the NBA, which we're doing on Wednesday evening. I think this podcast may not be publishing until Friday and on television. So just timestamping this on Wednesday. Just keep that in mind. We're not usually do that, but it's vacation season. What can I say? Okay. More important than that is my new colleague. He's not really new because I've known him for like 15 years, but he's our new ESPN colleague. Joining us from the Athletic from Northern California, where he will be based and has been based for many years, Anthony Slater. Mr. Slater, how are you?
- [00:58]
Anthony Slater
I'm great. Fifteen years would. Would. Would put me like end of college, so.
- [01:03]
Zach Lowe
All right. I just ballparked it. Yeah. I don't want to age you. I don't want to age me for that.
- [01:07]
Anthony Slater
That's probably right, though. I would say probably 12, 13. This will be coming up, my 13th season covering the NBA. And I can imagine. I don't remember the, you know, moment I met you or the game I met you at, but I assume it was very early in my beat writing career, so probably 13 years ago. 12.
- [01:22]
Zach Lowe
Is it possible that when you started covering the Thunder, because that's what your first job was, covering the Thunder for the Oklahoman. Is it possible that you could not grow the very beard that is now your trademark?
- [01:32]
Anthony Slater
It was probably a little bit scruffier, a little bit, you know, you were.
- [01:37]
Zach Lowe
Young, is my point.
- [01:38]
Anthony Slater
Yes, I was.
- [01:39]
Zach Lowe
I can't grow a beard to this day. I'm not, I'm not looking down at you.
- [01:42]
Anthony Slater
At one point I had like a goatee, but, you know, it was. I felt like that was more time, period. It probably looks worse now.
- [01:48]
Zach Lowe
Yeah, well, Slater is a legend on the warriors beat. Covered a big chunk of their run, I think three of their championships. You cover.
- [01:56]
Anthony Slater
Yeah, yeah. I mean, look, I came over when Durant did, you know, I covered the last three Durant seasons in Oklahoma City. So the two Durant titles and then the resurrection of, you know, or, you know, whatever you want to call the 22 title, that shocked a lot of people. So, yes, three of the four titles.
- [02:12]
Zach Lowe
Well, you're in the Bay Area, I guess I'll extend it to where you are, the Bay Area. And I am in Newark, New Jersey, which is the other city by the bay, which is a reference to Sopranos, if you got the joke. Congratulations. If you think it's weird, just move on. Okay, so I'd like to talk to you about the Warriors. That's you're going to be covering more than the warriors for us, but this is your area of expertise, which is important because it still remains one of the most relevant teams, one of the highest interest teams. However, as has been repeated routinely for the last two and a half weeks now, I guess three weeks, the warriors have not made a move in this off season yet. It is not for lack of lining things up and trying. So I think I am as we recording this on July 23rd. Maybe there will have been a move by July 25th. We can't see the future. But Slater, what, what do you, what are we to make of the warriors off season thus far?
- [03:10]
Anthony Slater
It's not that surprising. You know, maybe you thought they might chip in a minimum or two or, you know, announce an agreement without an official press release, which means it's been signed. Their big ticket item was Jonathan Kaminga. There was a lot of signs leading up to his free agency that it could drag because of the frozen restricted free agent market, which, by the way, is not just the Jonathan Kaminga thing, I think we all know, but there's a lot of scar tissue in the relationship. There's a lot of dynamics at play. There's a lot of CBA mechanisms and reasons that we are sitting here on July 23rd and there's been somewhat movement. You know, there's a. I would categorize the warriors this week and we are talking on Wednesday. Again, people may not be listening until Friday, but I would categorize the warriors this week as more motivated to get something done with Jonathan Kaminga and attempting to move the ball down the road a little bit. And I've always felt that the most likely scenario was a Kaminga reunion for various reasons, but it's still stagnant July 23rd for various reasons too, that go back. It really goes back four years. I mean, it's a four year story with Kaminga and I don't know how deeply you want to get into it, but that's why they're stagnant, because of Jonathan Kaminga's situation.
- [04:26]
Zach Lowe
Yeah. You authored many stories about this rocky relationship for the athletic over the years, some of them were co authored with our colleague, again, the ESPN Shams Trania, where, I mean, there was sort of a legendary story where Kumingo was quoted. Were you, were you on that story with Shams?
- [04:46]
Anthony Slater
Yeah, yeah, yeah. There was two. There was. So you're talking. I already know the one you're talking about. This would have been his third season when he was, you know, he had a really good third season if you look at it statistically. And there was a brutal home loss on the front end of a back to back to the Denver Nuggets, which will most be remembered from member Jokic. Hits like a 40 foot banker or something.
- [05:06]
Zach Lowe
Oh, my God. Legendary.
- [05:07]
Anthony Slater
Yeah, yeah. Well, in that game, Kaminga played like 18 minutes and he'd been playing well and he'd like he had played well in his 18 minutes, but Kerr didn't go back to him and you know, it was a buildup of frustration of him not breaking through, of him, you know, feeling the career moment, feeling his game getting to a level where he was waiting for a breakthrough. And that was a very criticizable decision that particular night by Kerr. And in the middle of the back to back, yeah, me and Shams dropped a story where, you know, it was basically Kaminga losing faith and Steve Kerr, he was quoted.
- [05:38]
Zach Lowe
Was he quoted?
- [05:40]
Anthony Slater
It was. So he was quoted the next night about it because again, front end of a back to back. They then play the next night. Kaminga plays like a career high in minutes. He's awesome. They beat the Raptors, I remember. And then post game he goes into great detail about how him and Steve had a meeting that morning and like kind of discussed their, you know, I guess, lack of communication at times. And you know, it almost 24 hours later was viewed as like, hey, maybe this is a positive. And again, he actually finished that season, at least regular season, decently. But that is only. That's like one chapter of about 19 in this saga.
- [06:16]
Zach Lowe
We don't have to go chapter and verse, but long story short, Kaminga and Steve Kerr have had a rocky relationship and the, you know, I don't know if he was the centerpiece of the two timelines, he and James Wiseman, but he certainly was a big cornerstone of the two timelines and it hasn't worked out. And it seems, if I could say this broadly and if I'm over generalizing, knock me back into line. When the warriors have their best players out there, Kuminga doesn't necessarily seem to thrive. But when he gets a bigger role and the ball in his hands more, he tends to thrive. Which is why a lot of people, including I guess Mr. Kaminga himself, might have seen a future outside of Golden State. But it hasn't worked out for various reasons, largely because restricted free agency is a B word and that's the world he's living in right now.
- [07:05]
Anthony Slater
Yeah, you know, and he has had moments with the full cast, which has changed over his four years, where he has, you know, had huge stretches, you know, six weeks where he's averaging 18, 19, 20 on, on good volume and but you know, I will say typically it's like, hey, during Draymond suspension, the longer suspension was one of his real bust out moments during Andrew Wiggins hiatus. Everybody can probably remember Andrew Wiggins or was coming his second year, missed basically from the All Star break to the end of the season. And you go back and this is coming a second season, he was a massive rotation piece that dragged, helped drag them to the sixth seed right at the end. And then Andrew Wiggins showed up on the doorstep right before the playoffs and he was basically pulled from the rotation. And, and when you trace some of Kaminga's frustrations, it is because there have been moments where he's felt like he has broken through. He has proved to Steve Kerr and the decision makers that it is time to maybe anoint him ready to be an every night guaranteed rotation player. And there just hasn't been as much of a trust and belief and, and backing, you know, and you know, call it immature, you know, for a young player. But I think that often leads to his, you know, bad transition defense which can frustrate Kerr lack of, you know, physical rebounding nights where he's kind of jogging up and down the floor and floating to the corner because he, when he doesn't feel that backing, has a mindset of like, all right, y' all just want me to, you know, get out here and you know, not make a mistake because you're going to pull me if I make a mistake. So let me float to the corner. And again, I think that showed itself again at the end of his fourth season where they put him, in my opinion, in a very tough spot during the Rocket series after pulling him, there was a couple times they had to plug him in. Right. Remember Jimmy Butler misses game three at home and they start him after keeping him out of the rotation. He played 11 minutes, he played hard, he made some mistakes. He'd been on ice. And then game seven, remember they lose the three. One lead is three three. He had a couple of bad moments in Game seven. But that was like a really kind of difficult environment to be thrown in.
- [09:16]
Zach Lowe
But.
- [09:17]
Anthony Slater
And you know, with Jimmy Butler there, which goes back to your earlier point about like, the full cast is particularly the Jimmy Butler, Steph Curry, Draymond Green full cast. It is kind of a misfit, but he would flip it. And you can flip the mindset where it goes, okay? Steph Curry tweaks the hamstring and all the guys that you could say the GI Santos is of the world who might play better as a fourth or fifth guy in the lineup and might help get a hustle rebound and get back in transition and do that type of stuff. Well, guess what? When Steph Curry strains a hamstring, you can't go, hey, all right, take the ball. Take Nas Reed off the dribble. Score 20 tonight and it's like, well, you know, that's valuable and that will be valuable next season, won't it? I mean, like, let's say Al Horford is in tow and clearly that's the warriors plan. We'll see if it's executed. But that would make four of their starters. 35, 35, 37, 39. Al Horford doesn't play back to back. So we know some of the injury and the, I don't want to say coasting that some of the other stars do, but like, you know, you. You throttle up and throttle back during the regular season, they're going to be scoring, they're going to need athleticism, they're going to need pop during an 82 game regular season. And I think lost in a lot of what's going on right now with Kaminga is people aren't talking about how much I believe in a lot of people, including some in the warriors front office. Even some in the team believe, like he is needed at times. Will he be potentially minimized and benched in Game 5, Game 6 of the second round? Sure, that could, you know, again, it could happen. Steve Kerr, you know, gets to a moment where he just needs like defense and hustle and this and he goes away from him. But guess what? Jimmy Butler misses two weeks next season. Need a score. You know, you need a 5th year 6 foot 7 wing who's going to go to the rim because there's other flaws on their roster that very much show themselves when one of their scorers is out.
- [11:05]
Zach Lowe
They've also tried to trade him a couple of times that I'm aware of. They tried to trade him. They tried to trade him for Kevin Durant midway Through this last season. They tried to trade him for Paul George last summer when they ended up not, you know, the Clippers basically wouldn't agree to the trade. God knows how many other times he's been in discussions, but like at least two, you know, at least two times to try to trade him for a star player. You know, I'm sure there were discussions with him and Jimmy Butler. You know, he ended up not being in that deal, obviously ended up being Wiggins, the big name in the deal. But, you know, he's.
- [11:37]
Anthony Slater
Well, the Durant, the Durant trade near trade. This deadline is very important here because you go back to last summer and there's a lot of even angst now I'd say about like, you know, like he was extension eligible last summer. Right. It doesn't get done. Part of the reason it doesn't get done and sure, the way it's been put to me is there was never any offers on the table. There was some dancing around of like.
- [11:59]
Zach Lowe
Yeah, the word as, you know, as a, the word offer is a tough word for media to use, whether it's trade or contract or, you know, offering the job to a head coach. The word offer is a difficult word. I think in, I know, like with my editors, they'll be like, well, didn't they offer it? I'm like, well, hold on, just be careful using the word offer because, yeah, when you use the word offer, you kind of got to defend it. And there's this language game that was played. So I understand what you're saying.
- [12:29]
Anthony Slater
Yes. So what's important there though, is part of the reason that the warriors were hesitant to extend Kaminga last summer. And you know, while, you know, numbers were discussed and I think Jalen Johnson getting five years, 150 gave a target that, you know, obviously Kaminga and their, their, you know, his representation, they had ambitious, you know, thoughts about what it could be. I'm of the belief and I've been told that they would have taken five for 150 if it was ever on the table. It wasn't on the table. And part of the reason the warriors didn't necessarily want to put an offer on the table and never actually did put a firm sign on the dotted line type offer on the table is because it would have poisoned pillowed his contract. And they were very much in flexibility mode because they wanted to be able to trade him. And if you sign him to that deal, he's nearly impossible to trade. Last season and as you mentioned, they almost traded him for Kevin Durant. Which by the way, I think all. Well, I think the warriors, you could argue whether it's better that they got Butler or Durant, but I'll tell you where Jonathan Kaminga wouldn't mind being right now an extended member of the Phoenix.
- [13:33]
Zach Lowe
Suns, but probably their plan if they had gotten that deal done. Yeah. And let me just say that when it, when it comes to poison pill, just so our listeners know what that is, because it's a little bit of an obscure reference.
- [13:47]
Anthony Slater
Yeah.
- [13:47]
Zach Lowe
If you have signed a contract, you know, if you're in the, if you're in your rookie deal, you know, and you're in your third year, you're going into your fourth year and you sign a contract, you become much harder to trade. I'm not going to get into the, the, the chapter and verse of it because I'm afraid I'll make a mistake and then I'll have to retract something and Bobby Marks will have to answer for me. But you become harder to trade. But by the way, wouldn't that be, isn't that also an issue for this year, not so much the poison pill.
- [14:14]
Anthony Slater
But base your compensation another terrific CBA term that everyone has to go to their dictionary and look up. Yeah.
- [14:20]
Zach Lowe
But just even if they sign him, you know, I think there's a poss. As they're negotiating. I'm not saying they would announce this, but as they're negotiating, they're thinking we want to sign to a contract that we might be able to trade.
- [14:31]
Anthony Slater
I feel comfortable saying both sides as they're working through this right now are discussing the idea of having, you know, tradable contracts with the, again, the understanding that if you have to have them to at least January 15th, which you would if you sign the contract, he could bust out and be, you know, a 22 point per game score that they don't want to trade. You know, situations changed in the league, as you know, certainly situations can change into January. But I think both sides are comfortable if a deal is eventually done, which I think the qualifying offers on the table, I think.
- [15:04]
Zach Lowe
Which is $8 million, right?
- [15:06]
Anthony Slater
Yeah, 7.9. I think a drawn out process that ends several ways is still on the table. But if, if a compromise contract I've been calling it happens, that is definitely going to be with the understanding that it possibly could get traded come January, February.
- [15:21]
Zach Lowe
So and if you, if you take the, just for the listeners, if you take the qualifying offer, it means that you get a no trade clause automatically for reasons I won't get into if you get traded, you lose your bird rights. That's why you get a no trade clause. Complicated. It's you lose the potential to resign with your team basically. And and basically you destroy your relationship. There's there's been a few cases and first off, qualifying offers are relatively rare. And even more rare are guys who take the qualifying offer and then stay with their team long term. I have maybe seen it two or three times in 23 years where a guy first off, I have only seen a couple dozen qualifying offers. It's that's pretty rare. Anyway, the reason I wanted to go over all this is because when I have Q&As on social media, which I do this time of year, I get a ton of questions about Jonathan Kaminga. There's a lot of warriors fans out there who are highly engaged, don't have anything to talk about, and they want to know what Kaminga so thank you for breaking this down.
- [16:22]
Anthony Slater
More Hoop Collective podcast after this as.
- [16:25]
Zach Lowe
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- [16:57]
Ryan Ruocco
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- [17:02]
Anthony Slater
So I thought it would be fun.
- [17:04]
Zach Lowe
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- [17:12]
Ryan Ruocco
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- [17:57]
Zach Lowe
To shift into some other warriors topics. Steph gets the hamstring injury in the. In the series against the Wolves. We'll never know what would happen if he didn't get that injury. The Wolves were playing pretty good basketball at that point. The warriors had been through the tough series with the Rockets where they pulled the quote unquote upset. Although they were favored in that series, weren't they?
- [18:20]
Anthony Slater
Yeah, pre series they were like slight favorites.
- [18:23]
Zach Lowe
Yeah. So. But still, you know, they had. They did without home court advantage. Go and upset the Rock. Well, I don't know if they were. They might have been favorite in game seven too. But still, if you're on the road for game seven, it's hard to call you a favorite. But they, they win that game and so what would. What, what did you think the chances for the warriors were had Steph not gotten hurt in that series?
- [18:44]
Anthony Slater
You know, it probably would have been somewhat of an uphill climb. It's that internally they're more confident than I would be, but you know, internally they're often more confident than I am. I'm more of like, kind of just like a. Skeptical by nature.
- [18:58]
Zach Lowe
Yeah. But believing in Steph is not, is not a, it's not a hot take.
- [19:01]
Anthony Slater
I will say this. They were like, they were in a wrestling match in round one that, that took it out of them to the point that I, you know, I, Steph would. Would agree and some people in their medical team would agree that it's. There's a very likely chance that the war that they had in round one is what led to the hamstring. But I will say they're up 30, 20 when he tweaks the hamstring. They win that game anyways.
- [19:21]
Zach Lowe
Right.
- [19:22]
Anthony Slater
And Steph, it was, you know how like game one of series of playoff series and then the next round, you're always like comparing it to the last round and they were just talking about how much freedom they suddenly felt against Minnesota and Steph was talking about how much easier it was for him to get going. And again, it was like 11 minutes of basketball.
- [19:41]
Zach Lowe
He had 13 points in 13 minutes in the first half of game one.
- [19:45]
Anthony Slater
So it's tough to like tell him he's wrong, but it was such a small sample who like Minnesota had played horribly. I think Anthony Edwards was like, oh, of 10, O of 11 to start the game. If you look at their three point shooting like I remember, you know, it's not like you can just take those 13 minutes ago. That's exactly how it was going to play out, and Steph was going to score easily and a sweep was on the way. But I will say, like, they will go to their graves believing they were going to win that series. Joe Laker went on record. Me and Marcus Thompson of the Athletic, when they. They got beat for one. We went into the little, like, courtside club with Joe Laker right after, and he was, like, trying to contain himself from putting it on the record. Because they. They. They hate when they get hypothetical. Right. Draymond even had a long thing about this. They hate when, you know, if somebody's gonna say, well, Kyrie got hurt and Kevin Love got her in this and that.
- [20:32]
Zach Lowe
Yeah.
- [20:33]
Anthony Slater
But Joe Lake of. Couldn't help himself.
- [20:35]
Zach Lowe
Draymond contributes dramatically to the NBA discourse. And he's. But, you know, he's known to, you know, not necessarily view of everything.
- [20:49]
Anthony Slater
But my point is, yeah, like, they think. Yes, I will say I think it was gonna be a really fun series. The warriors were gonna get that Game one. They were gonna. It was at least gonna be one one going back, you know, to. To Golden State. And they almost won Game three anyways with Butler and, you know, Kaminga, out of, you know, isolation, you know, gets put in. In place. Well, you would. I think at minimum, it's two. Two going back to Minnesota, and then it's a really fun five, six, seven type series.
- [21:18]
Zach Lowe
Yeah. And I think the reason you can hold on to that is because you're up 10 without Steph, and, you know, you're up 1. Oh, and then if you had Steph, you know, you. You had taken. Although they had. They had. They. They got home court advantage in that. No, they.
- [21:30]
Anthony Slater
No, they were winning game one. Yeah, they won. Yeah, they took it.
- [21:33]
Zach Lowe
Yeah.
- [21:33]
Anthony Slater
Two. Two days after game seven. So, yeah, again, I think it's. I think it's probably two. Two going back to Minnesota, and it's. It could go either way.
- [21:41]
Zach Lowe
So we talked just recently on the podcast. What were they? Is 22 and 5 the number with Steph Draymond and Jimmy Butler?
- [21:51]
Anthony Slater
At one point it was like 16 and 2. It was dominant. And it was, you know, what they would point to more is like, it was like top five offense, top five defense. It was like, you know, subsection that. That screams contender from a rating standpoint. But it was easy schedule. It was a very easy schedule. And you had a full throttle Jimmy Butler. Steph went. Had one of his, like, nuclear 10 game stretches. I don't think you could just extra pull out that or however, you say it out to 82 games and be like, that's the warriors you're going to get, because they were in complete sprint mode. They played a lot of tanking teams. It was a soft part of the schedule. The Jimmy Butler vibes were. Were, you know, completely pumped up. But they did look good, and Jimmy looked good with them.
- [22:37]
Zach Lowe
Yeah. So I guess my question is, you know, in your view, you've covered the warriors at the very top and at the very bottom, how legitimate is this trio? And, you know, as you look at the Western Conference and you look at some teams that have really powered up this offseason, excluding the team that they barely beat in the first round. Houston, still great win. But is this something that. Is that a trio that is legitimate, you know, that, you know, and, you know, they say the trio, you know, Draymond's role is as a. As a table setter and a defender. It's not like it's a classic Big Three, but nonetheless, there was a reason why that record was so good.
- [23:15]
Anthony Slater
When those guys played together, they fit really well. You saw that right away. It was like Jimmy Butler suddenly getting to the line. You look pre Butler, they were one of the worst free throw, you know, attempt and, you know, percentage teams in the leagues. Post Butler, they were one of the best. It was, you know, he. He did a lot of, like, the IQ stuff. Kurt kept calling him Iguid Dolla with. With, you know, the chaperone stuff he likes to say that he does out there. So, like, the fit was seamless. The. Their motivation level was high. And I would say, like, if you line them up completely healthy in a series with almost anybody in the West, I wouldn't necessarily include the Thunder in this. Like, they're extremely threatening and dangerous, and they could have won that Minnesota series. They did beat a very good Rockets team, and I do think they're going to have somewhat of an upgraded supporting cast next year. So, again, yes, I do think fully healthy, they're threatening, but, like, how do they get to April completely intact, healthy, fresh, in a good seed, not having to go through the play in and do that, all while having to rest, you know, their guys kind of selectively having to potentially deal with, you know, a Jonathan Kaminga drama situation, because I. I really do think Kaminga is a. And I know, again, I know there's belief behind the scenes, even from Steve Kerr, that Kaminga would really matter in a regular season rotation, but how do they get him into a content, happy to be, be here type mindset? For the regular season because if they don't have that, then, you know, they're a hamstring tweak away, an ankle sprain away from, from having to chase uphill. And I do think that's part of why they faded in the playoffs is because they were chasing uphill.
- [25:02]
Zach Lowe
Well, their playoffs really started like the last two weeks of the season because it was such a fight and scramble for the seeds.
- [25:09]
Anthony Slater
I say when Butler arrived, they started.
- [25:11]
Zach Lowe
Yeah, I guess that's true, you know. Yeah.
- [25:13]
Anthony Slater
Because they were, they were in a hole. They were like 11th when he got there.
- [25:16]
Zach Lowe
That's right. Yeah. So, yeah, I mean, I, I'll put it this way. I mean Bontemps is sort of famous for tearing the teams. They're somewhere in that tier between 4 to 10. You know, we can debate whether it's, you know, whether it's because, you know, I think most people, and you can certainly overrule this, but most people think Oklahoma City is in a spot by itself and then Denver is in a second tier. Some people will include Houston in that, some people will include the Clippers. But even if you don't either way, like between four and 10, there's a lot of liquidity there and the warriors are in that. But they have two players who have the capability to flip a playoff series by themselves. So if you're the warriors, my guess is you're looking at two things this year and again, correct me if I'm wrong, one, as you said, you get to the playoffs with your two guys healthy and not worn out so that you get into a playoff series and you have those two guys you think could flip it. Secondly, you do what they did last year, which was you lay around and wait to see if you can make a big trade. They have their draft picks going forward. We know that they're trying to get Kaminga in a contract he can be traded out of. You know, they have some other pieces. You know, they have a bunch of medium sized contracts on their team that they can move in and out of deals. They will probably. They're not going to be in the second apron. They're not going to give Kaminga the max because they're not going to be in the second apron. So they will be able to aggregate. Right? Am I wrong? I mean they're not going to be.
- [26:48]
Anthony Slater
Yeah, I mean part of the potential Al Horford addition would, you know, will be using a taxpayer mid level that would second apron, cap them. It's part of the reason they're being very careful and You've seen them make zero moves because the moment they second apron cap themselves, they give a team like Utah, team like Brooklyn who have stayed out of the coming of sweepstakes. And I'm not reporting any interest. The warriors certainly believe Brooklyn doesn't have interest. But the moment you give them a dollar amount to go, you know you can go over this dollar amount.
- [27:17]
Zach Lowe
Yeah. That they can't match.
- [27:18]
Anthony Slater
Yeah. You can either steal them away or force the warriors to have to send off a piece with a pick potentially to you. You know what I mean? So like they've been that, that's why they're sitting here with nine players and it's been nine players and that's one.
- [27:30]
Zach Lowe
That's one of the reasons why Al Horford's sitting around is that Al Horford. There's various reasons. I mean look, if Kaminga ends up elsewhere, Al Horford might be able to even get to get more money than the non the taxpayer mid level. But part of the reason why is what you just described is, you know, there's various reasons why it makes sense to sign later.
- [27:47]
Anthony Slater
It's. Yeah, it's a leverage play. But yeah, go ahead.
- [27:50]
Zach Lowe
So. Yeah, but like you know, the warriors are hunting for potential big move as well. Like that's another thing that will be the case and we'll watch during the season and they, they hunted last summer, they hunted in the fall and you know they, they couldn't pull off some things or whatever but come February they had Jimmy Butler. So they I suspect will be doing the same sort of thing. They've got Steph Curry, they want to maximize them. They've got their draft picks. Like if they see something that they think can be a big swing, I think they will be in the market for it.
- [28:23]
Anthony Slater
More Hoop Collective podcast after this.
- [28:29]
Ryan Ruocco
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- [29:20]
Anthony Slater
The McDonald's snack wrap is back. You brought it back. Ranch snack wrap. Spicy snack wrap. You broke the Internet for a snack Snack wrap is back. Yeah. Their draft picks are interesting because they've been protective of them, you know, and, and post stuff.
- [29:46]
Zach Lowe
Yeah, like you got to be careful of that.
- [29:48]
Anthony Slater
But it's, it's, it's like a two sided coin where they're probably overly protective maybe of the future, some people would say. But also like if they do decide to just flip 1 unprotected 29 pick or something like that, the league's going to be thirsting for it because that's a post Steph Curry. That's true warriors pick. It's valuable, you know, it's, it's much more valuable than a 29 spurs pick or you know, name your team with, you know, an in his.
- [30:13]
Zach Lowe
Yeah, it's one of the reasons why people have been talking about, you know, what Portland has. One of the reasons people are high on Portland is that Portland has Milwaukee's draft. Either the pick of the swap in 28, 29 and 30. Maybe Giannis is still there. Maybe Giannis is gone. Maybe Giannis is diminishing. Like, you know, you're, you're looking past the current star timeline. It's one of the reasons why the, the Lakers have been careful about giving away their picks in the late 20s and early 30s. Because post LeBron, you know, like so, yeah, like that, that is, you know, you're talking about access to something that's pretty valuable there.
- [30:49]
Anthony Slater
It's also why when they made the Butler trade, they wanted to trade this, you know, past drafts pick because they didn't want to be handcuffed at all by sending in a future pick. They also didn't love the mid to late lottery and beyond. So you know, there, there's definitely a lot of like asset management going on behind the scenes with this entire situation. Including like they've been very part of the reason that assigning trade hasn't got done for Kaminga. There's been, you know, particularly the Kings and Sons I would say have been the most aggressive is because the warriors have been pretty steadfast in their requirement of at least a first round pick. They also want a young player and they don't want to take on bad contracts and that's what's really, you know, held a lot of this stuff up because it's like not only does the team have to want to sign Jonathan Kaminga, convince Jonathan Kaminga to take this dollar amount, and he has high ambitions for his next contract. But also they then have to call the warriors and. And, you know, basically make, you know, a pretty decent value trade where you're giving up a pick and a young player. That type of stuff. That's what's. That's why so much of this stuff is just in gridlock.
- [31:53]
Zach Lowe
Yeah. Now, I want to say that Steph Curry, in what he turned 36 last year.
- [31:59]
Anthony Slater
He will turn 38. He turned 37 in April. Yeah.
- [32:03]
Zach Lowe
Wow. Last year. Let me tell you what his stats were. Let me tell you what his stats were last year. Yeah, he averaged 25 points a game. First off, he played 70 games. That's pretty good. Last two years, he's played 74 and 70. Average 25 points, 45% overall. 40% from three. You can pretty much write that down. 93% of the line, which was his actually his boy, his best. His second best free thresh season of his career anyway. Still average six assists. Still playing at a very high level.
- [32:36]
Anthony Slater
And still doing insane stuff to defenses. It's. It's those numbers and it is like the defensive attention and gravity that he creates and everything their offense is based out of. Like, to see him, I mean, you've been there, but like, to see him in the arena with the way, like, defenses just morph and like, double team and, you know, chop block away from the ball and all that. Yeah.
- [32:59]
Zach Lowe
In all honesty, this will sound trite. I can't believe his pregame routine.
- [33:04]
Anthony Slater
Yeah.
- [33:04]
Zach Lowe
That he still, you know, when you're at a game and it's March, February, in other words, you're not really getting playoff ready just yet. And he's still doing this incredible pregame. I mean, I understand why he does it. It's what he does, but, like, I mean, if you don't come early to a Warriors game to watch him do a pregame routine, you're. You're not getting your value of your ticket. And, like, I just can't believe he is. His energy is crazy that he's able to devote that much energy before the game and still have totally engaged in having fun when he's got nothing to play for. I mean, he's. He's done everything.
- [33:42]
Anthony Slater
Competitive freak.
- [33:43]
Zach Lowe
Well, of course.
- [33:44]
Anthony Slater
You know, I mean, all these titles. Yeah, yeah, exactly. He's a showman, too. You know, like, once they got Butler last year, he went on this surge that a lot of people were crediting with. Like, hey, he's kind of got this invigoration he has a suddenly a belief that they can at least. He kept calling it meaningful basketball. That became the big term that Kerr actually really liked to use. But you go back and look at some of those road games, like an Orlando 52 point game where he hit like this half, quarter and all this stuff, like. And he had the entire Magic crowd standing rooting for him by the end. And again, half of it was probably warriors fans, but he did it in Brooklyn. Like, he just like, you know, draw like that. That's where you feel like, look, they're not probably not gonna win the title next year. They weren't going to win it last year. But it's like when he puts on these show cities, I would say is when kind of you get the full appreciation and, you know, a realization is not only him, but his era of star, him, LeBron, Katie, as they kind of fade away. I mean, you're waiting for kind of these next showmen to arrive.
- [34:44]
Zach Lowe
Yeah, I saw him play at the Garden this last year. You know, stuff at the Garden. I mean, I was at the game. What year was it? 2012, maybe when he had like that, that first, like 57.
- [34:58]
Anthony Slater
That was the breakout one. That was the one a Shumpert I saw on a. Something recently, basically talking about he was mad at. Who was it? It was like it was Raymond Felton because he was on that Knicks team. He was saying he was mad at Raymond Felton because he was. He said he should have been telling Felton, like, I got him. And he just let Felton have him. Seth scores 52. And his theory was like, they unleashed the dragon, because from there, okay, so.
- [35:23]
Zach Lowe
If it hadn't happened then, yeah, he.
- [35:25]
Anthony Slater
Was like, yeah, he was theorizing like, if I just guarded him that night, he would have never arrived.
- [35:30]
Zach Lowe
Listen, I love Shop. I'm not saying a bad word about Sean, but yes, there was that night. It was like this feel of like, man, this is what the dreams are made out of, basically with stuff. I mean, he had. He had had moments like that, you know, at Davidson, but that was like a big moment. But anyway, yeah, he's. He's still great and we should treasure the nights that we still have with him and treasure your arrival at our company, Anthony Slater. How about that hard time?
- [35:57]
Anthony Slater
That was a transition right here. That's why. That's why I came for the. For these type of. That's professional transition.
- [36:03]
Zach Lowe
Look, we're just trying to get through a podcast in late July, if you want to know the honest assessment.
- [36:07]
Anthony Slater
But hey, Sam Amick could never transition like that. Sorry, I shouldn't say that.
- [36:11]
Zach Lowe
I think that's true, actually. All right, well, we look forward to having you with us and as a part of our collective into the future. We're very excited about your arrival. We've been, we've been trying to get you for years, honestly, you know, as long as Jonathan Kaminga has been trying to get paid. We'll try to handle these later at the espn. So we're, we're very happy to have him. And thank you for coming on. And we're talking warriors and just west coast, Western Conference, NBA throughout the season.
- [36:41]
Anthony Slater
All right. Appreciate you having me.
- [36:42]
Zach Lowe
All right, thanks, man.
- [36:49]
Anthony Slater
Foreign.
- [36:59]
Ryan Ruocco
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- [37:16]
Anthony Slater
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