NBA Finals Game 2 Preview. Knicks Pursue Jason Kidd, Suns Hire New Head Coach

Summary

Episode Summary: NBA Finals Game 2 Preview - Knicks Pursue Jason Kidd, Suns Hire New Head Coach

Released on June 7, 2025

In this episode of Brian Windhorst & The Hoop Collective, Brian Windhorst teams up with ESPN insiders Tim MacMahon and Tim Bontemps to dissect the ongoing NBA Finals, preview Game 2, and delve into significant offseason moves involving the New York Knicks and Phoenix Suns. The discussion is rich with analysis, insights, and candid opinions, providing listeners with a comprehensive overview of the current NBA landscape.

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1. NBA Finals Game 2 Preview: Thunder vs. Pacers

The episode kicks off with an in-depth analysis of Game 1 between the Oklahoma City Thunder and the Indiana Pacers. The Thunder, who amassed an impressive 68-win season, faced unexpected challenges against the Pacers, leading to a 35-point victory in Game 1.

Thunder's Performance and Turnover Issues

Brian Windhorst highlights the Thunder's struggle with turnovers, a recurring issue that cost them significant leads. "The Thunder won 68 games and blitzed their way through the West, but there is still some trepidation," Windhorst notes [02:12]. Tim MacMahon expands on this, emphasizing how turnovers have hampered the Thunder's ability to maintain their lead: "They were 1 for 11 on all 13 of the steals in the game. They also had three turnovers off of those 14 steals themselves," MacMahon states [05:09].

Pacers' Defensive Strategy

Tim Bontemps commends the Pacers' defensive approach, particularly their game plan against Tyrese Haliburton. "Their game plan against Tyrese Haliburton worked," Bontemps observes [03:32]. The Pacers' ability to compel the Thunder into inefficient shots was a key factor in their success.

Impact of Young Players

The conversation shifts to the Thunder's young core, including Jalen Williams and Chet Holmgren. While Williams has shown potential with clutch performances, Holmgren's inconsistency was a point of concern. "Jalen Williams was okay in the game. I wouldn't say he was great," Bontemps admits [12:08]. However, MacMahon defends Williams, highlighting his crucial role and impactful moments in previous games [08:51].

Turnover Analysis and Team Dynamics

The trio delves deeper into the Thunder's turnover problems, linking them to the team's overall discomfort and lack of experience in high-pressure situations. "They were leading by double digits, but botched 100 easy opportunities," Windhorst summarizes [15:23]. This inefficiency was a critical weakness that the Pacers exploited effectively.

2. Knicks Pursue Jason Kidd for Head Coach Position

Transitioning to offseason developments, the discussion turns to the New York Knicks' pursuit of Jason Kidd as their new head coach. Kidd's current contract with the Dallas Mavericks plays a pivotal role in this potential move.

Contractual Considerations

Brian Windhorst raises questions about the logistics of hiring Kidd, who is reportedly still under contract. "Jason Kidd has another job," Windhorst points out [29:15]. Tim MacMahon clarifies, mentioning that Kidd has two years left on his extension but suggests that seeking permission from the Mavericks is unlikely unless an offer is imminent [29:17].

Implications for Knicks' Coaching Strategy

The panel debates the Knicks' strategy and the potential fallout if they proceed with Kidd. "How sloppy is this process by the Knicks?" MacMahon asks, emphasizing the risks involved in pursuing a coach who is still contracted with another team [30:07].

Potential Alternatives and Fan Reactions

The possibility of alternative coaching candidates like Chris Finch is briefly touched upon, with Windhorst questioning the Knicks' approach if their top choice remains unattainable [31:25]. The discussion underscores the precarious position the Knicks find themselves in as they navigate their coaching search.

3. Suns Hire New Head Coach Jordan Ott

Shifting focus to the Phoenix Suns, the episode announces the hiring of Jordan Ott as the team's new head coach. Ott, known for his tenure with the Cleveland Cavaliers, brings fresh perspectives to the Suns.

Background and Hiring Process

Brian Windhorst introduces Ott, highlighting his progression from a video coordinator at Michigan State to a respected assistant coach. "Jordan Ott will be officially introduced as the head coach of the Phoenix Suns," Windhorst announces [37:57]. Tim MacMahon adds context about Ott's relationship with executive Tim Bontemps, emphasizing their collaborative dynamic [38:31].

Critique of Suns' Front Office Decisions

The conversation takes a critical turn towards the Suns' front office management, particularly owner Matt Ishbia. MacMahon expresses dissatisfaction with Ishbia's handling of high-profile trades, including those involving Kevin Durant and Bradley Beal. "I don't really think James Jones would have done the Bradley Beal deal the way he did," MacMahon argues [39:09].

Future Prospects and Team Dynamics

The panel discusses the challenging situation the Suns face, trapped in salary cap constraints with star players like Devin Booker. Windhorst compares the Suns' predicament to past NBA teams like the Brooklyn Nets post-Carter collapse, suggesting a slow rebuilding process is inevitable. "The Suns can't even do that. They're locked into this team that doesn't have any flexibility," Bontemps concludes [42:33].

Devin Booker's Role and Commitment

Devin Booker's unwavering commitment to the Suns is lauded, though concerns remain about the team's ability to remain competitive. "Devin Booker is the one long-term valuable asset they have, and they're not willing to consider trading him," MacMahon observes [45:50]. The trio debates the long-term viability of the Suns' current roster and the role Booker will play moving forward.

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Conclusion

This episode of The Hoop Collective offers a thorough examination of critical NBA narratives, from the intricacies of the Finals matchup to significant coaching changes affecting the league's competitive landscape. Windhorst, MacMahon, and Bontemps provide listeners with nuanced perspectives, backed by detailed analysis and insightful commentary, making it a must-listen for NBA enthusiasts aiming to stay informed on the latest developments.

Transcript

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[Brian Windhorst]

Hello and welcome to the Hoop Collective podcast. We talk about the NBA which we're doing on Saturday afternoon. Bad McMahon. Where are we right now?

[Tim MacMahon]

We are at my home away from home in Bricktown, Oklahoma City. The glorious Tipsic T the Gracious hosted by Big Rich Tipsy Tiki right here on the canal. There might be a little championship parade, swimming with the crocodiles down this thing, but I don't know, there might be one in any the way the way game one went. Can I just say though, howdy partners.

[Brian Windhorst]

Yeah, I just wanted you to say where we were, but you took off. Joining us here in Oklahoma City, Tim Bontemps.

[Tim Bontemps]

Hello everybody and thanks to Rich. And it's a very warm day here in Oklahoma City.

[Brian Windhorst]

It's not that warm. I've seen it.

[Tim Bontemps]

I mean it's, it's pretty warm, but we got it. We got some nice shade here. And there's some heat on the Thunder after game one. Should be a nice, interesting game too.

[Brian Windhorst]

Job. He's pretty good. Yeah, there's definitely a subdued nature here in Oklahoma City after the way game one went. It's been a day and a half and things haven't gotten better. You know, the thing about it is, is that even though The Thunder won 68 games and you know, pretty much blitzed their way through the West, a little bit of trouble with Denver. You know, this team hasn't yet achieved the highest goal and there is still some trepidation. And I would say the trepidation is palpable in the city because they're not used to seeing their team blow leads like that. They're not used to seeing things go wrong for this team. They did have a similar thing happen to them in game one against Denver and so that's what they're falling back on. Because McMahon in game two, you were here for that. They won by like 35.

[Tim MacMahon]

Yeah, and very similar. Blew a double digit lead in the fourth quarter. It was 12. In that case, 15 against the Pacers had the lead right up until the last few seconds. Aaron Gordon hit the three point game winner with 2.8. Obviously three tenths of a second for Halliburton but like you know this, I always say one of the things, one of the reasons the Thunder been able to have so much success as young and inexperienced as they are, is because they buy into the boring. Like they all the prestis isms, all the Thunder jargon that Mark Dagenham preaches, they buy into that. How many times have you heard get back to neutral or get back to zero? You know, that's a way of saying like strip the emotion from the game, learn from it, move on and in that case, they bounce back with a 43 point win.

[Brian Windhorst]

43.

[Tim MacMahon]

Now I will say this, maybe a 43 point lead would be safe against the Pacers, but I don't know, we've yet to see a lead be safe against this Pacers team.

[Tim Bontemps]

Yeah, I mean, I've sort of given up on trying to figure out what's going on with the Pacers because they have now had several games in the playoffs. So they haven't played well where their stars haven't played well and they've won anyway. And that was what happened in game one. And you know, you look at the box score, there was no real superlative performance from anybody they hit.

[Brian Windhorst]

No, their game plan against Tyrese Haliburton worked.

[Tim Bontemps]

Their game plan in general worked. And then they, I think took their foot off the gas in the second half. The Pacers got a little comfortable.

[Tim MacMahon]

The Pacers protected the ball in the second half.

[Tim Bontemps]

They did better. Right. I mean, I went back and watched game one this morning and first of all, it was remarkable the number of turnovers the Pacers had where they just flung the ball in the air. Like Obie Toppen had two turnovers where he literally was on the baseline and threw the ball to the other baseline.

[Brian Windhorst]

He just turned the ball over, I think the first three times he touched it.

[Tim Bontemps]

Yes. And then he hit 100 and threes in the game.

[Tim MacMahon]

Well, that was after Big Rich who was sitting courtside told Obi Top and he was a 20% three point shooter. Toppin quickly corrected him and said 40% and then proceeded to boost that percentage for the rest of the game.

[Brian Windhorst]

He went five or six.

[Tim Bontemps]

Well, but listen, this, this to me was the story of the whole game. We talked about it a little bit. We've talked about the last couple of days. We have been on the pod since then. So Thunder, what have you talked about all playoffs, McMahon? The points off turnovers, right?

[Tim MacMahon]

Yeah, turnovers and those turnovers fueling their offense. They were first three rounds forced, almost 24 points per game or created almost 24 points per game just off the field.

[Tim Bontemps]

So I watched the game in large part to chart these turnovers. I wanted to watch them and see what happened. So there were 14 live ball turnovers in the game, which means a steal or something happens in play and you can run the other way. On those 14 turnovers, the Thunder were 2 for 12 from the field. They made two of their. They made two free throws. Check. Got fouled on one play and they had three turnovers.

[Brian Windhorst]

So was one of the, was one of the 2 for 12 the Jalen Williams dunks.

[Tim MacMahon]

Yes. Which is basically an outlet pass into a break.

[Tim Bontemps]

Correct.

[Tim MacMahon]

So essentially 1 for 11.

[Tim Bontemps]

So they were 1 for 11 on all 13 of the other steals in the game. They also had three turnovers off of those 14 steals themselves. Throwing the ball away.

[Tim MacMahon]

That's crazy. More turnovers than buckets. Yes. When they're running off of the ground.

[Tim Bontemps]

In the whole game, off these 24 and off the 25 turnovers Indiana had, the Thunder were 4 for 22 from the field and had five turnovers.

[Brian Windhorst]

Unheard of, like it.

[Tim Bontemps]

And a lot of them were just very poor. Like they would get a wide open three, they would miss it. Shay would get an open mid range jumper, he would miss it. AJ Mitchell, in the couple minutes he was in the second quarter, he got a wide open three, got his own offensive rebound, missed a wide open ten footer.

[Tim MacMahon]

But what they weren't, aside from the J Dub breakaway, were dunks and layups. And a lot of times, I mean, we've all seen like when the Thunder go on these runs, they're almost always fueled by turnovers. And it's J Dub, it's Shea, it's, you know, Caruso, Case, Wallace, these guys getting to the bucket, finishing in transition. And I think there's certainly some outlier here in what you're talking about. But there's also some credit to the Pacers of saying, hey, we at least got to get back and, and, and protect the, the, the rim and transition. I promise you, that was a huge point of emphasis for Rick Carlisle leading into the series. Now so is protect the ball. And it took a half of that one to kick.

[Brian Windhorst]

Oh my God, there was the one they played it on, on the broadcast where Carlisle is in the huddle. I can't remember if it was the second quarter or the third quarter, but second quarter and he's saying, guys, stop throwing the ball all over the place.

[Tim Bontemps]

Play with focus.

[Brian Windhorst]

Yeah. He was like, bounce. You can't throw tight bounce passes. You can't throw tight passes against this team, which I'm sure he'd already said, not 11 seconds later TJ McConnell comes out and tries a cross court diagonal pass. Like, I mean this is kind of stuff that drives a coach crazy.

[Tim Bontemps]

But it was, it was unbelievable on the rewatch to just see how many missed opportunities Oklahoma City had. So if you're the Thunder, you expect, you're probably not going to get 25 turnovers again, but you certainly expect to convert more off of them. And the other thing we've talked about a ton during the playoffs is the combination of the two young guys behind Shea, who was also not great. He scored a lot of points, kind of did the Kobe system wasn't I would say a great.

[Brian Windhorst]

He did that by the way. So he was 14 of 30. He had a game in the last round against Minnesota where he was 13 of 30. He, his shot totals are going up, he's squeezing a little tight and I.

[Tim MacMahon]

Would say that was a C plus, 38 point performance for sure.

[Brian Windhorst]

That's the thing, like I mentioned that.

[Tim Bontemps]

To somebody, especially when you look in the last minute missed box out on the Siakam cut on the baseline for a layup, drives in on Siakam, it gets blocked and then misses a mid.

[Tim MacMahon]

Range that he would take 100, right.

[Tim Bontemps]

The clean midi that would have given him a three point lead.

[Brian Windhorst]

Right. Just obviously 14 out of 30 is not an inefficient game, but it's not, it's not what you're looking for.

[Tim Bontemps]

It's not inefficient, but it's not efficient.

[Brian Windhorst]

It's not how they play.

[Tim MacMahon]

I mean this is a guy who, you know, when he's getting 38 points, usually it's on like 14 of 24 and you know, 10 of 12 from the line.

[Brian Windhorst]

He did get to the line eight times, which he's getting to the line eight times. That's his, that's his average.

[Tim Bontemps]

But then, but then the other thing that we've talked about the whole playoffs is Chad Holmgren and Jalen Williams, the two young co stars who. The reason teams don't tend to win in this situation is because young players late in the playoffs tend to struggle. And for the most part the playoffs have been a struggle for those guys where they've had, they've had moments where they played really well, but there's also been a lot of moments where they struggled. Jalen in particular in game one was a moment where both of them struggled chat more than Jalen. And you know, if you're the Thunder. You would like to think that coming back in Game 2, both those guys will play better and should play better and that will be a big part of them turning things around.

[Tim MacMahon]

So where I'm going to push back is when you say most of the playoffs have been a struggle for, for Jalen Williams, there was a three game awful shooting funk, the worst three game shooting funk of his career when he was 10 to 43 over those three. They actually managed to win two of.

[Tim Bontemps]

Them in the Denver series.

[Tim MacMahon]

Those three games in the Denver series, game seven, he showed up 24 points, efficient in a blowout.

[Tim Bontemps]

He was good in the ministry series.

[Tim MacMahon]

You know, last series he was great. And especially they got their butts handed to him in game three. He came out in game four and had the best playoff performance of his career with 34 points. And just. And he's a guy like he. There's. He is pippinesque in his ability to affect the game all over. And did a good job on defense.

[Tim Bontemps]

And he did a good job on Siakam in the game.

[Brian Windhorst]

I think that a couple times he ended up with the ball in his hands on the, on the wing and he squeezed it a little bit.

[Tim Bontemps]

Well, there was the mat. The one shot like the shot he hit in game five against Denver late in the fourth quarter. The, the shot that clinched the game. He had the same three in game four against Minnesota clinched the game. He got the same look, Shea kicks it out to him, he does a little ball fake to the corner. There's a couple minutes left in the game. I think the Thunder are up three or four. Chance to go up seven, missed it. That's the shot in those other two games. He hits that shot, the Thunder win this game if he hits that shot, you know.

[Tim MacMahon]

And Dagenault, I actually asked Dagonault a question about Chet and his struggles in game one. And instead of addressing those specifically, he took more of a big picture view and included J Dub in there. And kind of his money line was usually delivering in the finals is not in the curriculum for third year players. You know, the old Professor Dagenal honest there. And his point was it's a credit to them that they've thrust themselves into this situation, that they are huge factors in the Thunder being in this situation and that it is expected of them because, you know, their performance has put the bar at that level. And I love Jalen Williams. When he was asked about it, I loved his, you know, his approach. He's like, I'm not really trying to Think about it as I'm a third year guy because I'm not trying to make excuses. And his money line was pressure is a privilege. Pressure is a privilege. Well, he was asked about being a third year guy. He was asked specifically.

[Brian Windhorst]

All right.

[Tim MacMahon]

Pressure is a privilege is what he said. Now let's see how they respond to. There's obviously pressure coming into this and now there's more pressure. They had game one stinkers, you know, they're one play away from being able to win the game. Now I will also point out we can find examples of third year players playing massive roles in the finals and you can find one in Pascal Siakam, his finals debut for the Raptors. 32 points.

[Brian Windhorst]

Okay?

[Tim MacMahon]

Championship clincher.

[Brian Windhorst]

Saying he's a third year player is an accurate statement. However, he is an all NBA player and an all star.

[Tim Bontemps]

You know, as a third year player in the finals too. James Harden 13 years ago, well, that's not an example.

[Brian Windhorst]

He wasn't at all. Yeah, I'm just saying that when you, once you become an all NBA player and once you become an all star and once you are going to say, please pay me the maximum amount in.

[Tim MacMahon]

2000 in a Super max escalator, please.

[Tim Bontemps]

Listen, we're talking a lot about Jalen Williams. Jalen Williams was okay in the game. I wouldn't say he was great.

[Tim MacMahon]

Didn't shoot it well.

[Tim Bontemps]

Played well on Siakam defensively though. But Chet Holmgren was bad. That's.

[Brian Windhorst]

You mentioned Dagonalt. Let me just say something. Dagonalt was asked several times in the last few days about starting small, taking Isaiah Hartenstein out of the lineup and then not playing. Hartenstein and Holmgren together for one second of the game, his response has been the same. It was the same as it was today when you guys were at the press conference. It was. I changed my lineup all the time during the regular season. You know, at one point, you know, he kept his cool, but at one point he was like, well, if you know our team. Yeah, I'm like, we know your team, sir. If you know our team, we're always changing lineups. But he was basically.

[Tim Bontemps]

Which they are.

[Brian Windhorst]

He was basically trying to defend himself. Now that is true. He routinely changes his starting lineup. He routinely changes his second half lineup and takes Hartenstein.

[Tim Bontemps]

Hartenstein didn't start the second half, three or four games of the conference finals. Right.

[Brian Windhorst]

That's true. That's all true. However, by starting. When you start the exact same starting lineup for the first three rounds of the playoffs and then you Change your starting lineup to start the finals. You can give whatever statement you want, whatever defense you want. You are indicating to the other team that you are bending to them.

[Tim MacMahon]

Yeah, you're blinking first.

[Brian Windhorst]

Yes.

[Tim Bontemps]

Now. Well, I mean, look, I mean I'm. I'm going to defend Mark on this in part because I thought it would be a good idea to do this. Not. I have seen.

[Tim MacMahon]

He brought it up.

[Tim Bontemps]

So we talked about the podcast. I'm not going to say it was a bad idea. And Also they forced 20 turnovers in the first half and we're dominating the game.

[Tim MacMahon]

But I do think there is a little psychological thing there. It reminds me of when the We Believe warriors is an eight seed upset. The second 67 went Mavericks and Avery in game one went with a different start. I don't remember the exact change, but went with a different starting line than they'd had all season.

[Brian Windhorst]

But I would just say that they were very clearly uncomfortable as a team.

[Tim MacMahon]

Okay, but what I'm going to say.

[Brian Windhorst]

Would you agree with that?

[Tim MacMahon]

2 bonus.

[Brian Windhorst]

The Thunder were uncomfortable to start the game.

[Tim Bontemps]

Nah, I fundamentally disagree with that.

[Tim MacMahon]

They had a double digit lead.

[Brian Windhorst]

I thought they played tight.

[Tim MacMahon]

They had a double digit lead for most of the first.

[Brian Windhorst]

Okay, well, this is gonna happen.

[Tim Bontemps]

Wait a second, wait a second, wait a second, wait a second. Yes. They're a young team playing in the finals for the first time. There's one guy on the team, Pascal Siakam who won or no, Pascal's on the other team. Right. Caruso won a championship the next year with the Lakers. There was not another guy on the court who played in the finals before. They looked like a team that had a bunch of guys who were playing in the finals before. They also again forced 20 turnovers in the first half and were leading by double digit Spanish.

[Brian Windhorst]

They started a different way than they started the whole playoff.

[Tim MacMahon]

The start wasn't the problem. The finish was interesting and we're huge. Case and Wallace fans, we all agree.

[Brian Windhorst]

Like this kid is a hell of.

[Tim MacMahon]

A player and I mean he's going to be awesome. He's really good now. Is going to be awesome. It is interesting to put Casen Wallace in the starting lineup. If you're going to make that change and not the guy who's got a championship ring and is the veteran voice on his team.

[Tim Bontemps]

I like Crusoe coming in.

[Brian Windhorst]

So is he going to start game two with the old lineup or the new lineup?

[Tim Bontemps]

I would start it the same way.

[Tim MacMahon]

We'll find out 30 minutes before we'll.

[Tim Bontemps]

Find out 30 was 4 tip. And look, I. The way the Thunder went through the game process wise, I thought was good. The first half they dominated the game. The reason they weren't up by 25 wasn't because they started small. It's because they botched 100 easy opportunities.

[Brian Windhorst]

Because they were uncomfortable.

[Tim MacMahon]

Well, and look, one thing I can understand is Dagenal watching that Pacers nick series, the Eastern Conference finals and seeing just how badly the Knicks got smoked in transition playing two bigs.

[Tim Bontemps]

Do you.

[Tim MacMahon]

Who, who do you want Chet guarding? Siakam or Hartenstein? You want them running with him in transition? Like you know they, they took away all the Siakam transition stuff that scorched.

[Tim Bontemps]

The Pacers didn't. Wait a second. The Pacers didn't play well in the game. Tyrese Halliburton was a non factor.

[Brian Windhorst]

The vast majority of the game disagree. The Pacers played very well. They played very well. Second half, they played very well.

[Tim Bontemps]

The pace. The Pacers hit a bunch of threes in the second half.

[Brian Windhorst]

That counts how you play well.

[Tim Bontemps]

Again, I understand that. But the Pacers, the Thunder dominated the game. The idea that they were uncomfortable because of the lineup change when they forced 20 first half turnovers and were leading by double digits, Crazy.

[Brian Windhorst]

Take the champions that we have who work for us at espn, who I've spent the last two days around all thought it was a bad idea. Now none of them play for the Thunder.

[Tim Bontemps]

Sure, everyone thought it was a bad idea.

[Tim MacMahon]

One of them did.

[Tim Bontemps]

Well, everyone thought I was bad.

[Brian Windhorst]

I don't mean right now. They don't play for the Thunder.

[Tim Bontemps]

Right now everyone thought it was a bad idea in hindsight because the Pacers lost the game or Pacers won the game. If the Thunder had won the game, if they converted on their turnovers like they always did.

[Brian Windhorst]

Is that how it always works? If it doesn't work in hindsight, it doesn't work.

[Tim MacMahon]

Can I ask something? How the hell have we been yabbering for this long and not gotten into Tyrese Halliburton with one of the cajones factor moments of this generation?

[Brian Windhorst]

I'm sure you don't want to do cajones factor for the playoffs? I mean, why did you.

[Tim MacMahon]

Oh, I'll do it and he's going to win it. Obviously.

[Tim Bontemps]

This is like he's already won it, this guy.

[Tim MacMahon]

This is one of the best individual clutch runs and team clutch runs, but specifically individual clutch runs in the history of the league. Four game winning or game tying buckets in the last five seconds in a Playoff run would be. It would be four.

[Tim Bontemps]

Not just that he's four for four. Four for four, not four. And nobody has ever made more than two in the playoffs in the last 30 years. And he's four for four.

[Tim MacMahon]

And like, these aren't easy. Aside from the blow by and Giannis for the layup, these aren't easy shots.

[Brian Windhorst]

You know, they've all been sort of different shots.

[Tim MacMahon]

And this was. This one was a 21 foot pull up going right, and Casen Wallace was on them. It was a tough shot. I'm sure Kayson looked at that and said, said, I could have. I could have been on him tighter.

[Tim Bontemps]

Looked up a foul. He couldn't have guarded him any better. It's a hell of a shot.

[Tim MacMahon]

But I'm sure Lou Dort looked at him, was like, damn, I wish I was on him.

[Brian Windhorst]

You know, Cruz, you know, you watch the play. It's not really clear what the call is there. They actually. Dort could have taken him. Dort was guarding Obi Toppin. If you remember, Aaron Neesmith got the rebound, which, by the way, it was a man's rebound. Aaron Neesmith had 12 rebounds in the game. Part of it was because the Thunder were playing small. Yeah, but Aaron Neesmith went in and Heilbern.

[Tim Bontemps]

Part of it is, Rick Carlisle said, is we were giving the ball away so much that it was sort of. There weren't a lot of opportunities for the putter to get rebounds. And again, 4 for 22 on those, on those turnovers, that's a lot of the extra shots.

[Brian Windhorst]

Shay misses the open mid range shot. Neesmith gets a man's rebound. He throws the ball to Top. I don't know why I threw the ball at Toppen, but he threw the ball at Toppen. Toppen waits for Tyrese to get up. In that moment, Dort could have moved on to Tyrese, but he didn't. Dart ends up guarding Toppen. And you've got Cason on. And they get good floor balance because they get. They put Siakam on the same side as Halliburton. Caruso is on Siakam. Tyrese makes his move to the right. Yes, Caruso could have doubled, but if Caruso doubles, would have given up.

[Tim Bontemps]

A dunk to Siakam.

[Brian Windhorst]

It's a dunk to Siakam. There's not enough time to rotate down. So the Pacers, without getting a timeout, got the matchups they wanted. No door on Halliburton. Got floor balance, got to their spot. You gotta give them credit for Handling their business.

[Tim Bontemps]

Yeah.

[Tim MacMahon]

And that's what the Pacers do. The scariest sight in the league right now is Tyrese Haliburton in a, you know, one possession game as the final seconds are ticking down.

[Brian Windhorst]

You know what, though? When I watched it in real time, I thought, wow, that was an amazing shot. But when you watch it back, he got beautifully squared up. He got a beautiful squared up, perfect look.

[Tim Bontemps]

No, and look, you got. I mean, I wouldn't even say they got the matchup they wanted, really, because Casen Wallace is another standing.

[Brian Windhorst]

Well, you don't want Dort.

[Tim Bontemps]

I don't think it's honestly much of a difference with either of those guys. Tyrese Alberton, though, took advantage of the fact that it was a one point game. You had to manage all these other guys. Again, like, Siaka made a great cut to draw Caruso away. And look, he stopped on a dime and he squared himself up. But it was a super difficult shot to get himself squared up that way. And look, I mean, his ability to not really be very impactful in the game, which he just was not. And a lot of that was they.

[Brian Windhorst]

Took the ball out of his hands in the fourth quarter.

[Tim Bontemps]

But he also was okay with that. Like, he. I know he was a bystander for large chunks of the game, but he has an unbelievable ability that despite not really being that involved when it gets down to it in that spot, he has absolute confidence he's going to make the play every time, no matter whether he's gone one for 15 or he's gone 15 for 18.

[Tim MacMahon]

And remarkable thing, as a team, they have absolute confidence if they are within anything that can remotely be considered striking distance, you know, as Halberton said, they're confident they're going to be able to walk a team down. And they've done it over and over and over again. And all the like, like ESPN's research department stats, Williams and the boys, like, how many, like 1 in 11, 44 type of stats have they had comebacks?

[Brian Windhorst]

We ran these on NBA Today. On Friday, we ran the four charts of the four games where they made the comebacks. And it shows like the percentage chance of winning. And so it's very busy. I don't know if we should have put it on tv, but all you needed to see was a straight line that went straight down on the right. The end of those charts, it was like, it's amazing. It was crazy. It doesn't compute. If so, the Pacers win a game where Halliburton doesn't really Play that well.

[Tim Bontemps]

Nobody played that well.

[Brian Windhorst]

Halliburton. So they are.

[Tim Bontemps]

Obi Toppin hit a bunch of shots. Other than that, there were no, I'll.

[Tim MacMahon]

Tell you what, man did fine, but.

[Tim Bontemps]

There were no, there was no like 25 or 30 point games.

[Brian Windhorst]

They shot 50 in the second half. They shot, they scored 66 points in the second half on the road against the Thunderbolt.

[Tim MacMahon]

And they were 10 of 20 from three point range in the second.

[Brian Windhorst]

They got up 16, but it was.

[Tim Bontemps]

A couple from a lot of guys. It wasn't like game one when Aaron Neesmith went for seven threes.

[Brian Windhorst]

They went, I think they went 10 of 16 on corner threes. So they generated the corner threes. They made the corner threes. They did more than. I understand the point you're making.

[Tim Bontemps]

My point is in game two in New York, right. Pascal went for 39.

[Tim MacMahon]

Yeah.

[Tim Bontemps]

Right. There wasn't a game like that where you're like that guy. They had a lot of guys get comfortable and make shots.

[Tim MacMahon]

But, and I would, I would say among the key rotation players for the Thunder, only one had a plus offensive game by their standards. Lou Dorsey, only one, Right. I would say by his standards, had a better than average game.

[Brian Windhorst]

I agree.

[Tim Bontemps]

And Lou north probably not going 5 for 7 or 5 for 8 from 3 the next.

[Tim MacMahon]

Yeah, Shea had a meh 38 point game. Jalen Williams didn't shoot it well. Chet stunk up. We can go on down the list. But after 47 minutes and 45 seconds, this can't, this game came down to the two faces of the franchise, the two superstars in this series, both getting looks. Shea missed what, frankly, was an easier look. A look that, yeah, you know, he's going to, he's going to hit that.

[Tim Bontemps]

50, 55% of the time. Yeah.

[Tim MacMahon]

Tyrese is going to hit that tougher look 100% of the time, apparently, as long as the game's on the line, because that's all he's done all season long.

[Brian Windhorst]

Carlisle had a timeout left. I wonder if Carlisle.

[Tim MacMahon]

No, I love Carla. This is something. Rick taught me this when he was with the Mavericks.

[Tim Bontemps]

Yep.

[Tim MacMahon]

Just the value of look, if you, if you can get the ball to your guy, you've got a guy down.

[Brian Windhorst]

Three, you're down one. That's two different situations.

[Tim MacMahon]

Oh, yeah. You're saying if they're down three, Shay hits that shot. I still think I, I, I think.

[Tim Bontemps]

You would maybe save it then to get.

[Tim MacMahon]

And, and one thing that might be different then. Yeah. Also the value of not calling the Timeout is you don't want to give the Thunder the chance to get their D right.

[Brian Windhorst]

I was going to say foul.

[Tim MacMahon]

I was gonna say, after a bucket, they can get their defense set. But the Knicks obviously never figured that part out.

[Tim Bontemps]

Well, and look, but that's what's so interesting about the game is, like, obviously we talked a bunch about the Thunder. There's a lot of things you point to say the Thunder are going to play better. And if you look at the Pacers, sort of the same thing. Like the Pacers walk out of that game. Nobody played very well. Yes, they hit shots in the second half, but they obviously flung the ball over the gym in the first half. And like, yeah, they have things they can take away from the game. But it sounded like you go into game two if you're the Pacers thinking, man, we stole one. We didn't play well on the road.

[Tim MacMahon]

By the way, does Andrew Nimhard ever miss a clutch shot? How about it was like 4 or 5.

[Tim Bontemps]

29% in the regular season and almost 50% in the playoffs.

[Tim MacMahon]

After guarding Shea all night long, I'm.

[Brian Windhorst]

Calling him playoff Nemhardt.

[Tim MacMahon]

I'm telling you what. He also, you know what?

[Tim Bontemps]

Another guy who's fearless. Like, that's the word for the three, the Pacers, they are a fearless team.

[Brian Windhorst]

Also, he. He got Shea a little bit ruffled. Now, I just wrote this story about how Shea weaponizes his calm, weaponizes even Keel. He does his whole thing, but consistency is. Is everything I do. Getting back to zero or neutral, whatever.

[Tim MacMahon]

They either or. They're interchangeable.

[Brian Windhorst]

Nemhardt got Shay irritated.

[Tim MacMahon]

Well, they've been going at each other since they were like 8, 9 years old.

[Brian Windhorst]

I know, I know.

[Tim MacMahon]

Well, yeah, there was should and shade through the first. He had the first little show.

[Brian Windhorst]

That's what I'm saying. Shay did it first. Hey, is that a secret weapon? The Canadian dude?

[Tim MacMahon]

It's not even Canadian. It's Nimhard. He did it at Brunson. Brunson ain't Canadian. Brunson headbutted him, remember?

[Brian Windhorst]

God, that was. Well, that was.

[Tim MacMahon]

Nimhard is.

[Brian Windhorst]

Talk about foulmer.

[Tim MacMahon]

And a hell of an irritant.

[Brian Windhorst]

Foul Merchant, by the way.

[Tim MacMahon]

Free throw Merchant. You can't say that. No, Casey, I guess not.

[Brian Windhorst]

But what if you take another player's.

[Tim MacMahon]

You'll be in that canal. What is that in that canal, if you say free throw Merchant.

[Brian Windhorst]

I was talking about Brunson.

[Tim MacMahon]

That's some green water, too. I don't know if you.

[Tim Bontemps]

I don't know, wouldn't be, wouldn't be very fun.

[Brian Windhorst]

You probably almost tipped into that thing a few times about 2 in the morning.

[Tim MacMahon]

Listen, I'm smooth and effortless. Just right on up those stairs and off we go.

[Brian Windhorst]

Yeah, that's right at, at about 10 o' clock at night, right? That's when you head back.

[Tim MacMahon]

I've got a, an 8:30 curfew.

[Brian Windhorst]

Okay. Am all right. Okay, that's it. We'll have more about game two. There's other stuff happening in the NBA right now.

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[Brian Windhorst]

I Don't know if you guys heard, but the New York Knicks are looking for a coach. I have heard you talked about the other day. You got a little viral response. Response to your comments about Jason Kidd.

[Tim MacMahon]

Did I?

[Brian Windhorst]

You did.

[Tim MacMahon]

I'm trying to stay. Stay out of the mentions. I'm pulling a windy. There's a certain segment of the sporting population that's been questioning my toughness. I'll just let you know. Look at this finger. I played pickup last night with a dislocated finger. That's how tough I am. How'd you do?

[Brian Windhorst]

How'd you do?

[Tim MacMahon]

I stunk. I, I, No, I was. It was a C plus performance by my standards. My standards just aren't very high.

[Brian Windhorst]

All right, so you mentioned the other day that you didn't think that the kids. How did you say.

[Tim MacMahon]

I said I would not dismiss that possibility. And certainly it is yet to be dismissed.

[Brian Windhorst]

Mark Stein, I believe. What did he exactly report? He reported.

[Tim MacMahon]

Stein reported that the Knicks are expected to request permission. You know, Shams and I reported that. I think the phrasing was they're doing active duty diligence on Jason as well as some other candidates.

[Brian Windhorst]

Good phrase.

[Tim MacMahon]

But like this thing is definitely.

[Brian Windhorst]

Can I just stop for a second? Jason Kidd has another job.

[Tim MacMahon]

Yeah, and stop.

[Tim Bontemps]

Jason Kidd.

[Tim MacMahon]

In the past, he has an extension that was signed during the Maz run to the 2024 finals. There's two years left on that extension. This. I'm not, I want to be careful here because I've gotten Bon Timps and I have. We've been, you know, digging around. We've gotten conflicting information. I would say.

[Tim Bontemps]

Let'S just leave it where it was the other day. Let's not dismiss the possibility.

[Tim MacMahon]

What I'm going to say is this. The Mavericks obviously do not have to grant permission.

[Brian Windhorst]

Of course.

[Tim MacMahon]

And I would say there is at least a. Some internal discussion about.

[Brian Windhorst]

Can I just point something out that independent of you two, did the Knicks not sue another NBA team for hiring away a person on their J.

[Tim MacMahon]

Kid can't take the floppy diss.

[Tim Bontemps]

That's not why they sued them.

[Tim MacMahon]

Can JK take his own playbook or is that like, confidential information?

[Brian Windhorst]

I'm just saying, like, you know, like, this is.

[Tim Bontemps]

I'm not trying to defend the Knicks, but I'm just saying they didn't, they didn't sue the guy for getting hired by another team.

[Tim MacMahon]

They said they took confidential information. Whatever. But here's my thing. How sloppy is this process by the Knicks? You're leaking that you're Or I don't know who leaked, getting leaked, that you're going to try to go after another team's coach who's under contract. And if not him, like the other names that have been leaked so far are also other teams, coaches who are under contract. You fired a coach who just went to the Eastern Conference finals with no firm plan in place other than a bunch of, well, maybe their franchises will grant us permission for some reason.

[Tim Bontemps]

Well, this gets back to what we talked about the other day, and the bar to clear for this to be a success as a move like, you can't just hire anybody. That's the problem.

[Brian Windhorst]

If I'm Joe Smith and I have a head coaching job with multiple years left on my contract and I'm doing just fine, and you come to me and say, I would like to hire you away. Okay. It is going to take a gigantic number.

[Tim MacMahon]

Yeah. I think we're talking at least 12 a year. At least 12 a year. And you know, the other thing is this. Look, if you are like, Jason Kidd is not going to ask for the Mavericks to give him permission to go interview for another job. If they're asking for that, there's either a guarantee an offer is coming or there's not right there saying, like, you're not going to get coaches under contract with other teams. And, you know, look, the Mavericks season this year was a disaster.

[Tim Bontemps]

It's not to have a chat team.

[Tim MacMahon]

That'S a year away from the finals.

[Brian Windhorst]

That'S fouling down by three.

[Tim MacMahon]

This ain't an interview you can. You're asking for permission to hire the guy.

[Brian Windhorst]

That's right.

[Tim MacMahon]

So we'll see.

[Brian Windhorst]

What's your vision for, you know, training camp? Your training camp schedule. You don't think that's.

[Tim MacMahon]

We were in Charleston last year. Where do you think would be a better destination? Do you have any resorts that you like? J Kids? Oh, let me tell you, I got some golf courses here, here and there.

[Brian Windhorst]

Okay, but what do you think about the idea of just the idea of.

[Unknown Sponsor]

Wanting to leave the Mavericks right now?

[Tim MacMahon]

I, I, so that's the thing. I don't think Jason Kidd is looking to leave the Mavericks. That doesn't mean that, like, he would not be interested in the Knicks job there. But it's like, I'm getting into semantics here.

[Tim Bontemps]

But the next job is a better job and he would get more years and more dollars.

[Tim MacMahon]

Right.

[Tim Bontemps]

That's. There's the interest.

[Tim MacMahon]

I don't think this is a case of like, J. Kidd wants to get the hell out of Dallas, especially Honestly.

[Brian Windhorst]

With Cooper Flag coming in, that's what I'm talking about.

[Unknown Sponsor]

That's the undercurrent.

[Brian Windhorst]

Like, is no one excited about Cooper Flag?

[Tim MacMahon]

Now, listen, you know, I don't want to put odds on anything here, but certainly one very feasible scenario here is JKID ends up with a restructured extended extension.

[Brian Windhorst]

I love an extended. It's one of my favorite things is extending extensions.

[Tim MacMahon]

I've never gotten one.

[Brian Windhorst]

I'd like to get one. Be fun. So, all right, so let's say they don't get Jason Kidd. Now they've got egg all over their face because they fire a guy who's one of the most successful coaches in 20 years, and then they don't get their top choice.

[Tim MacMahon]

Well, and if you don't get Jason Kidd, why, like, okay, Chris Finch is a name that's been thrown out there. Why? I'm Tim Connolly. Why the hell would I let Chris Finch go work for you? We like him here. And, you know, we've been in the west finals the last two years. We don't want to get rid of a coach who's going to the Western or to a conference finals. Thank you.

[Brian Windhorst]

Well, first off, Tim Connolly has got to get his own self under contract. At his exit press conference, he said, I'll be sticking around, but I have not seen an announcement, nor have I been told that it's done. So let's just keep that in mind for number one. And do keep in mind that Chris Finch was hired in Minnesota at the middle of the season by Gerson Rosas, who is Leon Roses, one of his toppest lieutenants. So if you're the Knicks.

[Tim Bontemps]

I don't even know if I necessarily agree about the egg on your face part. If they don't, let's say the Navs don't express grand prism for Jason Kidd. Look, if you are the Knicks, like, if you're gonna be trying to get the best coaches, like, go try. If you can't get them, you can go try to get somebody else. Like, if you're. Yeah, because to me, it's.

[Brian Windhorst]

Come on, it looks bad if you fire a successful coach.

[Tim Bontemps]

Well, look.

[Brian Windhorst]

And then you can't get the coaches.

[Tim MacMahon]

You want a couple times.

[Tim Bontemps]

I'm not saying, I'm not saying it. Not saying any of it looks good, but it's different than getting turned down.

[Tim MacMahon]

And I, I, I think if Leonard Public word, he would attempt to say, hey, we weren't just honed in on one guy. You know, we're doing due diligence on multiple. But certainly if one name is bubbled to the fore forefront here for a.

[Tim Bontemps]

Reason, the results is what's going to matter if they go through 10 rounds of interviews and they hire whoever they hire. They hire Joe Smith.

[Brian Windhorst]

Any coaching.

[Tim Bontemps]

Well, but I understand. But like right now, however messy it looks or gets, what's going to matter is what happens a year from now. And if the Knicks are playing in the Finals, the Knicks are playing in the Finals with whatever the new coaches they hire. It'll look good if they lose it. Yeah, but that's what that's the situation they've set up. If they lose in the first or second round with the new coach, it's going to look bad. They hire Jason Gidden, they lose in the first round, it's going to look bad. Like it, you know.

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[Brian Windhorst]

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[Brian Windhorst]

Speaking of new coaches, on Monday Jordan Ott will be officially introduced as the head coach of the Phoenix Suns. First time head coach came away from the Cavaliers. Has been highly regarded assistant ever since.

[Tim MacMahon]

His days as a Michigan State video coordinator.

[Brian Windhorst]

That's correct. Kenny Atkinson was his first hire when he got the job as a Cavs head coach hired him. But I think more interesting the first place I saw this and I don't know if the first place I saw was Gerald Bourget from All City Sports. If somebody else had it first, I apologize.

[Tim MacMahon]

I believe Gerald had it first.

[Brian Windhorst]

Gerald, congratulations on your new arrival. He and von temps new fathers. Yeah, you guys can compare.

[Tim MacMahon]

Was it a double date?

[Brian Windhorst]

No, it was not. Anyway, Gerald got a memo internal memo that Matt Ishby has sent me to son's employees where he apologized for his behavior as an owner the last couple of years saying that he was not involved enough and that he made the classic new owner mistake. If he'd have stopped there. If he'd have stopped there.

[Tim MacMahon]

That's the classic new owner mistake. We agree with that part. Yeah, the not involved enough. What like brother.

[Brian Windhorst]

He said that he made the mistake of just hiring people and paying them to make the decision decisions which is. And now he's going to be more.

[Tim MacMahon]

Involved like come on man. Like we all enjoy Matt Ishbia. We all appreciate his.

[Brian Windhorst]

I do. I like him as a guy.

[Tim MacMahon]

We just really are I'll speak myself I just really believe his approach as an owner has been completely misguided and counterproductive especially under the new CBA and I'm sorry his fingerprints were all over the Kevin Durant deal his literally the first day over six hours Bradley Beal deal. He's the one who made was his his push was stars, stars, stars. Forget fit. Forget the, you know the financial and.

[Brian Windhorst]

The I'll go even a step further. You know they were going to trade Kevin Durant and they were very close to or they were very much trying to trade Kevin Durant at the All Star or at the trade deadline and Durant said no, I don't want to get traded. I don't want to do this. And that was ishpia with that too. Yeah, you know I don't, I don't think James Jones would have traded for Kevin Durant in that particular deal. Maybe he traded for Durant but not for that deal. I don't think James Jones would have done the Bradley Beal deal the way he did and I don't think James Jones would have would have tried to trade Kevin Durant without involving him in the process.

[Tim MacMahon]

And look the hiring of the Brian Greger who might end up being a fantastic general manager but this is a.

[Brian Windhorst]

Class by the way, I didn't think Brad Stevens was a slam dunk to be a great executive. I thought Brad Stevens is a great coach. He's turned into a great executive. So I'm not saying Brian Gregory can't.

[Tim Bontemps]

Be great executive coach.

[Tim MacMahon]

What is Brian Gregory's primary qualification to be the Phoenix Suns general manager?

[Brian Windhorst]

His relationship with Matt Ishbia dating He.

[Tim MacMahon]

Was an assistant coach at Michigan State when ishpia was a walk on. He has 11 I guess maybe it's a full year now of experience in, in the NBA none as a decision.

[Brian Windhorst]

Maker like the year he has sort of been around the team for two years I believe but he's only been in the a full time member of the front office for one year and.

[Tim MacMahon]

And but that that hiring was a clear signal that what is telling you is the truth is feels like he didn't have enough of an impact on things and I would say boy oh boy, whatever it comes down to I don't think that's the message that Suns fans are going to be comforted by.

[Brian Windhorst]

So what it comes down to is this. They're going to try to make a Durant trade probably between between now and the draft. What it sounds to me like is that Matt Ishban will be executing that trade now maybe he was going to do it anyway but that's what it sounds like to me now.

[Tim Bontemps]

It's the worst situation in the history of the NBA.

[Brian Windhorst]

Oh my God. He just comes off the top of my head.

[Tim Bontemps]

It's not the first time I've said it. I know it's the Worst situation in the history of the NBA. And none of this is a sign that's getting any better.

[Brian Windhorst]

Just to clarify that the worst situation, like from a front office management, from.

[Tim Bontemps]

A franchise, where the franchise, franchise sits right now, they have no control over their jobs for the next several years. They're in cap hell. They have Bradley Beal, who they cannot trade because he has a no trade clause. They have no draft picks to improve the team and they have an agent, Kevin Durant, who they now have annoyed with the way they handle things in.

[Tim MacMahon]

The spring and who only has one year left on his contract. So he's going to have a lot of say on where he goes or where he doesn't, which deflates his value.

[Tim Bontemps]

There's just not, there is not a path out of this, this anytime soon. That in my opinion, that doesn't involve a lot of pain, right?

[Brian Windhorst]

With this bad situation, whether you want to call it the worst of all time, with this bad situation, they hire an inexperienced general manager. They hire an inexperienced head coach. He's experienced coach, inexperienced head coach. And the owner says, I got it, boys.

[Tim MacMahon]

And the owner, the inexperienced owner now, he's experienced. No, he's not. Well, he's got a little bit of experience. It ain't good.

[Tim Bontemps]

You just look at where the team was when he took it over two and a half years ago, and you could say that they were going to be an okay playoff team and not a great playoff team. But you look at where that team was a couple years ago, where they had a core of young players and they made the Finals recently, they say.

[Brian Windhorst]

Built through the draft, right?

[Tim Bontemps]

And they were in that situation. And you look at where they are now, with a roster mostly devoid of young talent, with no draft picks going forward, with no cap flexibility going forward, and with a Western Conference, as you have pointed out many times, that is absolutely loaded. And as you sit here right now, the Suns were not one of the 10 best teams in the west last year. They're probably not going to be, in my opinion, going into the season higher than 12th or 13th in terms of where not 13th.

[Brian Windhorst]

I mean, we'll see what their Durant trade looks like, but they're certainly not going from 12th to 6th.

[Tim Bontemps]

They're not going to. They shouldn't be. They will very likely be projected to be out of the top 10 in the west as a start of.

[Brian Windhorst]

Can I just say in general, if you're a second apron team and you are not a title contender, even if you want to loosen up the definition of title contender. That is literally an unacceptable position.

[Tim Bontemps]

It's unacceptable and untenable.

[Brian Windhorst]

Which is why those Celtics without Jayson Tatum for most, if not all of next year are probably going to take themselves out of the second apron now.

[Tim Bontemps]

Because you have to worst situation.

[Tim MacMahon]

I don't want to go that strong. Worst bang for the buck in NBA history. No question about that.

[Brian Windhorst]

And that's a no brainer.

[Tim MacMahon]

Like what's the path out of this if they're. I mean, what's the path out of this?

[Brian Windhorst]

Okay, so how do you eat an elephant? You eat an elephant one bite at a time. You have to work your way out of it by one step at a time. Getting your way out of it, trying to acquire assets, trying to find development. Basically the exact opposite of what they were doing for the last two years.

[Tim Bontemps]

Yeah.

[Brian Windhorst]

So the trade for Durant has to be a trade that is better for the next three to five years, even if it doesn't help them immediately this year.

[Tim MacMahon]

Well, watching the Phoenix Suns is about as fun as eating an elephant. About as pleasant.

[Brian Windhorst]

Well, that's.

[Tim MacMahon]

What do you think an elephant tastes like?

[Brian Windhorst]

If you look at where the Nets were, it's somewhat comparable to the Nets where they were after the complete collapse of the kg.

[Tim MacMahon]

Pierce.

[Brian Windhorst]

Yeah, look what they did. They had to go down to nothing. They didn't have control of their draft picks. They had to go down to nothing and slowly build back up. And how long did it take Wall.

[Tim MacMahon]

Putting the foundation in place for the Celtics to go win a championship?

[Brian Windhorst]

Yes, they had to sit there and watch. They had to do that because there was no other way to it.

[Tim Bontemps]

Well, the Nets are also had other paths they could have gone down. They chose actively to go the way they did, which you could argue that was the way they should have gone. They could have also just tried to be competitive in the short term and signed short term players that had value, which they didn't really do. But the Suns can't even do that. Like the Suns are locked into this team that doesn't have any flexibility that isn't good enough. And look the other. I mean let's just talk about the elephant in the room. Devin Booker is the one. Devin Booker is the one long term valuable asset they have and they're not.

[Tim MacMahon]

Willing to consider trading him. And he doesn't want to be right.

[Brian Windhorst]

And he's about to sign, I assume a two year, $150 million extension. Which is probably one of the reasons.

[Unknown Sponsor]

Why he was willing to be so.

[Brian Windhorst]

Involved in the coaching search because he was like yeah, I'm going to be a good, a good teammate. I'll be. Because by the way, it's not necessarily good policy to very. I mean it wasn't public, but it's not necessarily good policy to have your franchise player have to stamp a coach because now that can be put on the coach's head. And by the way, they delivered him five first time head coaching candidates. They were like, Devin, here's our five finalists. They've all never been head coaches before. Pick one and marry yourself too.

[Tim Bontemps]

That's tough to 100% Devin Booker's credit. He has made it very clear that he wants to be a son for his career. He wants to be a one team player. He wants to make it work there. I find that very admirable. Honestly, 10 toes down, it is a cool thing. However, I cannot sit here and look at this situation and see any way where he's going to be on a relevant team in Phoenix in the next four or five years.

[Tim MacMahon]

Well, and that's the thing. Like I. It is admirable. I also think it would be in. And Devin Booker's not asked for my advice. What, Whatever. I think it would be in his best interest and the franchise's best interest for them to put him on the block.

[Brian Windhorst]

Well, first he's going to get his 150 million. Okay. That's what's going to happen first.

[Tim MacMahon]

Yes.

[Tim Bontemps]

Right.

[Brian Windhorst]

And he better get that 150 million because the way they have put him in this position is in my view, unfair. It's unfair to him to have to, to have to ratify a coaching hire where there's five guys who've never been a head coach before.

[Tim MacMahon]

Well, and it's unfair of him to have to play for a fourth head coach in four seasons because the elder fired the last three.

[Tim Bontemps]

That's the thing. Two and a half years, they're on their fourth quarter.

[Brian Windhorst]

He better be getting that 150 and then we'll see what happens after that.

[Tim MacMahon]

Who gives a damn about the salary cap? Not defeating Sun?

[Brian Windhorst]

Not the Suns. All right. Are you looking to go to enjoy the tipsy tiki here?

[Tim MacMahon]

I always enjoy the tips.

[Brian Windhorst]

Okay. All right. All right.

[Tim MacMahon]

Well, you looking to get into something here?

[Brian Windhorst]

Am I looking to get into something?

[Tim MacMahon]

Yeah.

[Unknown Sponsor]

No.

[Tim MacMahon]

Oh, okay.

[Brian Windhorst]

I'm looking to go get a steak.

[Tim MacMahon]

Okay. Well, there's other places I can recommend. We'll see you. We got a reservation at 8:45 you'd like. Oh, you're doing movie night?

[Brian Windhorst]

Yeah, it's movie night tonight. You guys said no, can't be bothered. That's okay. I'll go by myself. I don't care. Go to movie by myself.

[Tim MacMahon]

Teammates.

[Brian Windhorst]

I'm not care. Yeah, that's right. All right. Thank you, Tipsy T Tiki and Big Rich for hosting us. Thank you to Blair and Rafa.

[Tim MacMahon]

Hey, thank you for. To Matt Stowe as well. The. The brains behind the operation. Co owner here.

[Brian Windhorst]

That's the guy who takes care of you at night because Big Rich is.

[Tim MacMahon]

When Big Rich is, you know, recovering. Yes.

[Brian Windhorst]

Did you recover here? You recovered here last night from your pickup game. You needed some.

[Tim MacMahon]

I did, yes.

[Brian Windhorst]

Different type of recovery.

[Tim MacMahon]

I eased some pain.

[Brian Windhorst]

Thank you to Rafa and to Blair, who are behind the cameras. Thank you to Bontempsmcmahon. Thank you for watching and listening to Hoop Collective. Be talking to you after game two with our man, our finals correspondent, Iman Shumpert, who I thought did a really good job coming in.

[Tim MacMahon]

He carried that podcast.

[Brian Windhorst]

I wouldn't argue that 2016 NBA champ. I don't know if you guys heard. All right, we'll talk to you soon.

[Tim MacMahon]

Adios, amigos.

[Brian Windhorst]

Sa.