NBA Finals Game 3 Preview + Giannis Trade Buzz & Garland Injury Update

Summary

Podcast Summary: NBA Finals Game 3 Preview + Giannis Trade Buzz & Garland Injury Update

Episode Title: NBA Finals Game 3 Preview + Giannis Trade Buzz & Garland Injury Update
Host: Brian Windhorst & The Hoop Collective
Release Date: June 10, 2025

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1. Introduction and Series Recap

Brian Windhorst welcomes listeners from Indiana, reflecting on the various locations the Hoop Collective podcast has been hosted. The discussion quickly shifts to the NBA Finals, where the series between the Oklahoma City Thunder and the Indiana Pacers is tied at 1-1.

Notable Quote:

Brian Windhorst [03:24]: "What’s going on is we've got game three of the finals coming up on Wednesday, 1:1. However, it's 1:1, and that's the most important score. That's all that matters."

2. Analysis of the Thunder vs. Pacers Series

The hosts delve into the dynamics of the current Finals matchup. They highlight the Thunder's dominance, having won 46 of the 48 minutes played, and contrast it with the Pacers' struggles to find effective offensive strategies against Oklahoma City's robust defense.

Key Points:

• The Thunder have consistently exploited weaknesses in opponents' defenses, a trait seen in previous playoffs against teams like the Cavaliers and Knicks.
• The Pacers' primary offensive threats, Tyrese Haliburton and Pascal Siakam, have been effectively neutralized by the Thunder's defensive schemes.
• The importance of the final three-tenths of games is emphasized, showcasing how pivotal small moments can determine the series outcome.

Notable Quotes:

Tim Bontemps [04:37]: "The Thunder are clearly the better team."

Brian Windhorst [06:31]: "Siakam has gotten in the pain a little bit and when they can, they're beating the hell out of him."

3. Predictions for Game 3 and Beyond

The hosts debate whether the series will swing back in favor of the Pacers or if the Thunder will close it out in five games. They consider factors like strategic adjustments, player performances, and potential shifts in momentum.

Key Points:

• The Thunder's ability to maintain high shooting percentages and control the game's tempo gives them an edge.
• The Pacers have shown resilience in some second halves, scoring 66 points in both the second half of Game 1 and Game 2.
• The uncertainty remains whether the Pacers can capitalize on any additional shooting slumps from the Thunder.

Notable Quotes:

Brian Windhorst [09:14]: "In the second half of game two, they scored 66 points and shot 55%. That's not nothing."

Tim Bontemps [16:03]: "If the Pacers can't figure something else out there, it's going to be real hard for, you know, to see them."

4. Giannis Antetokounmpo Trade Rumors

A significant portion of the discussion centers around ongoing trade rumors involving Giannis Antetokounmpo. The hosts analyze the Milwaukee Bucks' financial strategies, tax implications, and the team's commitment to retaining Giannis despite trade speculations.

Key Points:

• The Bucks have spent $219 million in tax over the past 13 years, with only five teams exceeding this expenditure.
• Discussions around the feasibility of trading Giannis consider the Bucks' need to manage payroll and maintain competitiveness, especially with Damian Lillard's injury.
• The philosophy of retaining superstar players like Giannis is compared to the Bucks' treatment of legends like Dirk Nowitzki.

Notable Quotes:

Tim MacMahon [29:30]: "When you get that kind of a player, you keep them forever if you can. You honor them, you put their numbers in the rafters."

Brian Windhorst [32:30]: "On June 10th, I am saying there is no Giannis trade happening."

5. Injury Update: Darius Garland

The podcast provides an update on Darius Garland's injury, detailing the severity and expected recovery timeline. Garland's toe surgery is expected to sideline him for four to five months, impacting the Cleveland Cavaliers' strategies moving forward.

Key Points:

• Garland suffered a significant toe injury in March, which worsened during the playoffs.
• The surgery, scheduled for June 9th, will require a lengthy recovery period, potentially keeping Garland out until mid-November.
• The Cavaliers face tough decisions on how to compensate for Garland's absence, including potential trades and roster adjustments.

Notable Quotes:

Brian Windhorst [41:00]: "Garland is out till the fall."

Tim MacMahon [42:40]: "Kobe Altman absolutely loves Darius Garland. He was the first one of those core four, you know."

6. Team Strategies and Future Outlook

Further analysis explores how teams like the Cavaliers and Bucks might adjust their rosters and strategies in response to injuries and trade considerations. The discussion touches on the broader landscape of the NBA, including potential moves from other high-profile players and teams navigating their postseason windows.

Key Points:

• The Cavaliers must decide whether to invest in players like Ty Jerome or Sam Merrill to bolster their roster.
• The Bucks are navigating complex financial decisions to retain key players like Brook Lopez while managing salary caps and tax implications.
• The uncertainty of the offseason looms large, with many teams contemplating significant roster changes to position themselves for future success.

Notable Quotes:

Tim MacMahon [45:51]: "You don’t want to make a trade unless you have to."

Brian Windhorst [46:16]: "Second apron is a real thing. I know it's annoying to people, but that's the reality."

7. Closing Remarks and Future Episodes

Brian Windhorst wraps up the episode by thanking the production team and listeners, teasing future discussions and topics within the NBA landscape.

Notable Quote:

Brian Windhorst [47:51]: "Thank you for watching Hoop Collective. Thank you to Jackson and Rafa who are behind the scenes here."

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This episode of Brian Windhorst & The Hoop Collective offers an in-depth analysis of the ongoing NBA Finals, the intricacies of potential player trades, and critical injury updates that could shape the future of several NBA teams. With expert insights and engaging discussions, listeners gain a comprehensive understanding of the current NBA dynamics.

Transcript

[Brian Windhorst]

With a Venmo debit card, you can Venmo more than just your friends. You can use your balance in so many ways. You can Venmo everything. Need gas? You can Venmo this. How about snacks?

[Tim MacMahon]

You can Venmo that.

[Brian Windhorst]

Your favorite band's merch? You can Venmo this or their next show. You can Venmo that. Visit Venmo Me Debit to learn more. The Venmo MasterCard is issued by the Bancorp bank in a pursuant to license by MasterCard International, Inc. Card may be used everywhere. MasterCard is accepted. Venmo purchase restrictions apply. Hello and welcome to the Hoop Collective podcast. We talk about the NBA, which we're doing on Tuesday afternoon at the Gainbridge Fieldhouse. Did I say that right?

[Tim Bontemps]

You did. First time for everything.

[Brian Windhorst]

How many different places have we done the podcast from now? Racking them up.

[Tim Bontemps]

We did it from the Dallas, Boston, Las Vegas acronym. Las Vegas.

[Brian Windhorst]

Akron, Oklahoma City, here. All right, well, today we're in Indiana. I've been coming here. They've had four different names since I've been coming to this arena. Tim Bontemps here in Indianapolis. Fan. McMahon.

[Tim MacMahon]

Howdy, partners. It's been a while since I've been to Indy. I. I think the last time I was in Indy, I might be wrong, but I think it was when Monte Ellis.

[Brian Windhorst]

That's a long time, buddy.

[Tim MacMahon]

Game winner. Refused to talk to the media afterwards. By the way, that might have been Milwaukee.

[Brian Windhorst]

Speaking of Montes about this on the.

[Tim Bontemps]

Phone, just briefly, because we talked about that moment on the phone the other day. It is really remarkable to think back on the fact that there was once a debate whether the warriors should keep Monte Ellis or Steph Curry. That's like just an unbelievable.

[Brian Windhorst]

Well, the owner was booed for trading him. But the other day, we were all at the press conference in Dallas honoring. I'm sorry. It was in Oklahoma City honoring former warriors coach who made Monte Ellis a star, quite frankly.

[Tim Bontemps]

Former Mavericks coach.

[Brian Windhorst]

Former Mavericks coach Don Nelson, former Bucs coach. He's been around.

[Tim Bontemps]

Nick's.

[Brian Windhorst]

Nick's coach, briefly.

[Tim Bontemps]

Knicks coach.

[Brian Windhorst]

That was first off. That was so much fun, listening to Nelly talk. He could have talked for two hours. My favorite part of the whole thing was that he was like, this was the first time he'd left Maui in seven years.

[Tim Bontemps]

Oh, yeah.

[Tim MacMahon]

He hadn't worn shoes in six. Then he made a big point to say, I'm wearing Luca Force.

[Brian Windhorst]

Well, that was your favorite. That was your favorite part of the show.

[Tim MacMahon]

You know what, though? That's the first time I have seen or talked to Donnie Nelson since he was Donnie Don Son, obviously longtime Mavs executive since he was fired from the Mavericks. So I go up, had a nice conversation with Donnie. You know what Donnie wanted to talk to me about?

[Brian Windhorst]

Probably Luka Doncic.

[Tim MacMahon]

No, how much he enjoys the hoop collective.

[Brian Windhorst]

Oh, well, hello, Donnie.

[Tim Bontemps]

Well, and I enjoyed, since we're talking about this briefly during the press conference, Don Nelson, who had prefaced his remarks to Mark Stein that he was going to talk about Luka in the trade and why he was wearing the shoes, had things to say about the Mavs trading him. And then Rick Carlisle very slyly said, oh, I want to welcome. A few people will be here from Dallas Kudendani. Nelson had the pleasure working with him for 13 years and, oh, by the way, drafted a lot of great players. But he just so happened in 2018 to draft both Luka Doncic and Jalen Brunson in the same draft. I wonder why there was. Why Rick. Why would he do that? Why would he bring up that.

[Brian Windhorst]

There was a lot of fire at that press conference aimed at at the Mavericks by former Mavericks.

[Tim MacMahon]

They're just getting ready to host Cooper Flag on a visit. What's going on?

[Tim Bontemps]

What's going on.

[Brian Windhorst]

What's going on is we've got game three of the finals coming up on Wednesday, 1:1. However, it's 1:1, and that's the most important score. That's all that matters. The Pacers have led for less than two minutes in this series.

[Tim MacMahon]

And I mean, they led for 3/10 of a second in the game. They won.

[Brian Windhorst]

It's all that mattered.

[Tim MacMahon]

Yeah.

[Brian Windhorst]

I've often said the final three tenths are the most important tenths.

[Tim MacMahon]

Exactly.

[Brian Windhorst]

So now what we're. Here's what we're wondering. We're wondering is this going back to two? That's really. That's really the question I have. Is it going back to two? Or is the fact that the Thunder have won 46 of the 48 minutes an indication of where this series is?

[Tim Bontemps]

It's 94, the 96, but it should be 3:1. It should be 3:1, should be 3:1. Indy, Oklahoma City, going back to OKC. They should close us out in five games. Like the first two games. If you watched it, like you just said, the Thunder are clearly the better team. And like we talked about going into the series, Indiana is an awesome team. But the thing they have thrived on through these playoffs, the last couple of playoffs, is being able to take advantage of weaknesses that the other team's defense has and just exploiting them over and over and over again with relentless efficiency.

[Brian Windhorst]

Definitely what they did against the Cavs.

[Tim Bontemps]

And the Cavs, the Knicks, the Bucks, like, the Knicks last. Like, that's what they do.

[Brian Windhorst]

Well, the Bucks didn't have Giannis or Dame, so I'm. Well, they didn't. They had Giannis.

[Tim Bontemps]

But the point is. But the point is that's what they do. Right. And the problem is in this matchup, there just isn't a place for them to attack. Tyrese Halliburton, yes, he hit the game winner. He's otherwise been invisible. Pascal Siakam, who was fantastic throughout the playoffs, he's a similar guy that really likes to take advantage of matchups in transition. There's not a clean matchup for him to go at. Jalen Williams has not shot the ball awesome the first couple games. His defense has been really good on Pascal. Yeah, it's just hard to see outside of, hey, can the pacers have a 21 point or better three point margin like they did in game one? Like, sure, they could have a great shooting night. Thunder could have a bad shooting night. But short of that, it's just hard for me to look at a logical path that the Pacers getting, you know, ahead in the series.

[Tim MacMahon]

They've got to be able to get in the open floor. They've got to be able to run, and that is something that Oklahoma City has completely taken away. I suspect that's part of the reason that Dagenault has barely played the two bigs together.

[Tim Bontemps]

Right.

[Tim MacMahon]

They played together for, I think, four minutes in game two. Not at all in game one. Yep. You know, the Knicks two bigs got scorched a lot just because Siakam would outrun them. But yep, Stats Williams, in the post game thing that he sent after game two, there was a stunning stat in there. Tyrese Halliburton head one transition play in that game. A transition play in that game. It was a turnover on that play. Tyrese Halberton to not generate a single point in transition and only have one opportunity when you know he is the engine to. Is it the best transition offensively? I think they can certainly make that claim. That's really, really good work, you know, starting with Lou Dort. But OKC's defense as a whole, well.

[Brian Windhorst]

Look, the first two games, Siakam has averaged 13 shots. Okay. Halliburton has averaged 13 shots. Yeah, that's just like. And I understand that the Pacers are a democratic offensive team. You're not Having a guy shooting 28 times, you're not having a guy who has to score 35 for you to win. I get it. But they're two greatest offensive weapons are Siakam and Halliburton, and they can't get shots up. And this is what happened in the last round. Here's Ant Edwards. People are counting his shots. They're like, well, Ant only had, whatever it was, 14 shots. It's hard. It's hard when they're trying to stop you.

[Tim MacMahon]

And it's especially hard if it's in the half court because, you know, against this OKC defense, period. But especially for the Pacers. Like, it's not like the Pacers call a bunch of half court sets for Siakam. You know, he lit the Knicks up because he outran them.

[Tim Bontemps]

And when he gets a matchup, he goes right at.

[Brian Windhorst]

Right.

[Tim MacMahon]

And then there was a matchup that they felt very comfortable for him to go right at. That's not the case in this series. Like you mentioned, Jalen Williams is his primary defender, and Jalen Williams is more than equipped to guard him in the half court, where obviously Carl Anthony Towns absolutely was not.

[Tim Bontemps]

Yeah. And look, we talked about it. You brought up the piece that Zach Cram, our new colleague, and Kevin Belton, their longtime colleague, wrote going into game one of the series. And they brought up the stats of Hal Burton against the Thunder. And like, look, Tyrese Halberton is a lot of things. He's not a guy that when he's got Lou Dort or one of these other Bulldog, Alex Caruso, one of these big, physical Thunder guards on him, he's not going to go through those guys and make plays. And Wallace, yeah, Casey Wallace, he's not fairly certain.

[Brian Windhorst]

So Haliburton has no free throws in the two games. I'm fairly certain that Zach and Pelton wrote that he had one. He drew one shooting foul in the regular season against him. Yeah, it's just four games, one shooting foul.

[Tim Bontemps]

This is team in the league that can really take away all the things that make the Pacers a unique team to play against and why they're so difficult for teams to match up with. Because Halberton is a very smart player. Part of the genius of him is that he is cool with kicking the ball ahead, letting other guys score. He doesn't need to have 30 in a game, but if you need him to go at somebody, like when he had that 32.15 assist, no turnover game here in game four, he did that because he was going At Jalen Brunson, right. There was Jalen Brunson sitting there. He knew he could get to his spot. He kept getting to his spots. He'd get in the lane, collapse the defense, make plays. And against this Thunder team, you just can't do that. And through two games, it's, it's just very hard to make a rational case the Pacers are even in the series.

[Brian Windhorst]

Okay, let me make a small case. So if you're a Pacers fan, this is what I have for you. In the second half of game two, they scored 66 points and shot like 54%.

[Tim Bontemps]

Yep.

[Brian Windhorst]

In the second half of game one, they also scored 66 points, shot over 50%. So look, I can't speak to you about those first halfs. You know, they, they could barely got to 10 points in the first half of game one. Game two, they scored 41 points in the whole first half. But in half of the games they have been able to put points on the board against them. Now some of it may be just be the Thunder getting a big lead and taking their foot off the gas.

[Tim Bontemps]

A lot of the, A lot of the, A lot of the second half of game two was garbage time.

[Brian Windhorst]

Game one, I wouldn't say a lot of it.

[Tim Bontemps]

I would say at least the whole fourth quarter, it was a 20 point game for basically, but they were playing whatever.

[Brian Windhorst]

The point is, if you're looking for a reason why the Pacers can do something here, they have put together a couple of good second halfs.

[Tim Bontemps]

It's the second half of one that's the one to point to.

[Brian Windhorst]

Well, they had 66 points in the second half of game two and shot 55%. That's not nothing. And if you are looking.

[Tim Bontemps]

Game one, the Thunder didn't the game. Second half of game one, the Thunder missed a million threes and The Pacers went 6 for 10 in the fourth quarter. And they were over 50% I think in the second half. Right?

[Brian Windhorst]

They were 10 to 20.

[Tim Bontemps]

Yeah. So like that, that is, that's. You want to say what's the formula for the Pacers to win games in the series? That's it. Like their 3 point margin that game was plus 21.

[Brian Windhorst]

Well, also Halliburton actually got a couple of shots with his feet in the paint and I know it was garbage.

[Tim Bontemps]

Time, but like, well, you got to start somewhere.

[Brian Windhorst]

There was a play in the first like six minutes into the game the other night on game two where Halliburton got free off a screen and took a 31 footer dude, he had a bunch of space he could have got. He wasn't even looking to go.

[Tim MacMahon]

Here's another stats Williams GM so GM they Halliburton's played six games against the Thunder in the last two seasons. Yeah, he's not even gotten double digit drives in any of those games. Game two, nine drives. Pacers scored a total of two points on his nine drives.

[Tim Bontemps]

That's just not like they're just, I.

[Tim MacMahon]

Mean the pain is just a no fly zone for the Pacers. And again, step one of making the pain a no fly zone is don't let him get out and run. Make him grind it out and have court. But like that's also, that's amazing.

[Brian Windhorst]

Siakam has gotten in the pain a little bit and when they can, they're beating the hell out of him. So here's they're pounding him in the basket.

[Tim Bontemps]

That's what the Thunder do.

[Tim MacMahon]

And Halberton obviously has the best moment of this series so far, hitting the game winner in game one. But in game two, Halliburton never looked comfortable. He's having to earn every step that he takes with the ball in his hands. And Shea looked like he was just crazy cruising out there, just cruising. And how many times did they set high pick and roll? They were sending way up high 30 plus feet. They said high pick and roll and Shea would just split the double and next thing you know, whoa, it's, you know, it's, it's four on three going downhill with Shea just coming right down with a Runway and making all kinds of plays out of that.

[Brian Windhorst]

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[Tim Bontemps]

Our Guy Jackson, stellar producer for the Pod, trying to steal Stats Williams Thunder during the break trying to get McMahon.

[Brian Windhorst]

To I actually didn't care about it. It was fine.

[Tim MacMahon]

Well, I'll say this, he knows where it's coming from and he's like the rest of us, we're all just stealing from Stats Williams. But getting back to sga, I do have a whopper of a stat.

[Brian Windhorst]

I got a good one too.

[Tim MacMahon]

So we, I talked about they were setting the screen way up high, right? So a couple here, they said on ball screens 30.3ft from the basket when SGA was the ball handler in game two, that is the highest average, you know, screen set point of any game.

[Brian Windhorst]

So you're talking about like a good seven feet above the top of the.

[Tim MacMahon]

Three point that that was the average. And and you know a lot of.

[Tim Bontemps]

Those highest for any game for what? For him, for the season. For him, for the, for him for the playoffs. What was the context on that?

[Tim MacMahon]

I was, I was just about to say that the furthest in a game in his career. In his career. So I mean and a lot of these are he's two or three steps over the half court line. Like I said, he just kept splitting it and Then, whoosh, he's downhill.

[Brian Windhorst]

Yeah. He didn't always see the screen. Sometimes he went on the other side of it. Yeah, but the Pacers were so worried about it that they were frozen up there.

[Tim MacMahon]

So 24 of those screens were 30 plus feet away when they said it.

[Brian Windhorst]

That's a lot.

[Tim MacMahon]

Guess the point per possession on those 24 plays.

[Tim Bontemps]

I'm guess 1.4, 1.55.

[Tim MacMahon]

That. I mean, they're printing money on those plays. So if the Pacers can't figure something else out there, it's going to be real hard for, you know, to see them.

[Brian Windhorst]

Well, there's something they could do. They could just trap them.

[Tim MacMahon]

They were trying to split it.

[Tim Bontemps]

Well, and I had a couple. I had a couple coaches talk to me after game two and say, we would love to see somebody try to get the ball out of this guy's hands. Because like you if the game plan, we've talked about it a lot with okc, is you got to make the other guys try to beat you. Right. In game one, we talked about it. Going into game two, Shay was way too aggressive. He was too interested in trying to get his own shots. When he gets up 30 or more shots, it's not really the way he and the Thunder want to play. Right? Game two, he comes out, he's under control. He's back to being in total control of what he's doing.

[Brian Windhorst]

During this year, he averaged 21 shots, which, by the way, did lead the league, but he averaged 21 shots a game. And in game two, 21 shots, that's.

[Tim Bontemps]

A much better number than 30 because that means the others are involved and the others were involved in Game 2.

[Tim MacMahon]

And that was how Shea led the league in scoring. That kind of efficiency, that was a shake. 11 of 12 from the line only hit a 3. It's all mid range and in the restricted area. Just get new spots. I thought as efficiently as he scored 34 points, I thought his passing was as good as. As his score. Now, Listen, in game one, they were 3 of 13 on his passes, but I just didn't think the passing was nearly as crisp. In this game, there were 8 of 14 on his passes, 8 assists, 14 assist opportunities. But there were also a ton of plays where, you know, Shea gets the double, quick decision, and then boom, boom, boom, boom, boom. Three or four passes later, Crusoe's hitting a corner three. Wiggins is hitting a three.

[Brian Windhorst]

He would get deep into the paint. He would still sometimes look to pass. Yeah, Caruso, a couple of Caruso and Wiggins threes if it wasn't a direct pass. He also had some hockey assists where.

[Tim MacMahon]

He'S passing a bunch of them.

[Tim Bontemps]

But he wasn't forcing shots.

[Brian Windhorst]

Right. He'd get into the paint and even though he probably could have taken a shot, he looked to his teammates because obviously they were collapsing on him. All right, here's my favorite Chase stat. So he had 34 points. Yeah, it was the 83rd game this year. He's had at least 25.

[Tim Bontemps]

That was their 100th game of the season, correct?

[Brian Windhorst]

I think. Yeah, but he didn't play in 100, so it's. His percentage is even higher.

[Tim MacMahon]

By the way, it's his 11th game this postseason where he had at least 30 and five assists. That's only been done by two other guys. They both did it multiple times.

[Tim Bontemps]

Yeah, I mean, that's not bad company. I mean, look, he's.

[Brian Windhorst]

By the way, I saw that his first two games. We keep going here. His first two games is the most points and assists or something since LeBron in 2018. First two games of the Finals, which included arguably the most statistically dominant finals game of LeBron's career, where they lost in game one. The J.R. smith game one.

[Tim MacMahon]

Yes.

[Tim Bontemps]

For the listeners of doing the motion LeBron made when J.R. it was more.

[Brian Windhorst]

Like with the hands out, like more of a pleading motion.

[Tim Bontemps]

That was quite a night at old Oracle Arena.

[Brian Windhorst]

Former Pacer George. Let me just say, former Pacer George Hill. Totally, eternally off the hook historically. Because it was a free throw rebound that J R missed.

[Tim Bontemps]

Correct.

[Brian Windhorst]

If you know, there's a few seconds left, I mean, in theory, obviously, the warriors get the ball back and win, but if George hits the free throw, the Cavs win. Go.

[Tim Bontemps]

That's right.

[Brian Windhorst]

And LeBron doesn't punch the blackboard.

[Tim Bontemps]

It's also true. Look, and I mean, speaking of LeBron, I mean, look, not that Che is LeBron, but Chase, we talked about it going in the series. Like, Che is doing historic stuff. And if he can get. If he and the Thunder could get three more wins, this Thunder team is going to be one of the all time great teams in the history of the league. And she'll have one MVP and one Finals mvp. Every single person in the same year. Every single one of the other 10 guys that's done that is an inner circle hall of Famer. The quote unquote, worst player of them is Willis Reed. And Willis Reed is an all time great player.

[Brian Windhorst]

He also. So we talk about scoring title, regular season mvp, Finals mvp. You're Talking already also a single hand.

[Tim Bontemps]

Yeah. I mean it's Shaq. Shaq was the last one to do it.

[Tim MacMahon]

Yeah.

[Tim Bontemps]

So I mean again it's like that's, that's the rarefied air.

[Brian Windhorst]

I said this the other day and I think some of our former player colleagues were. They've stuck their head back and look gave me the down. They looked down at me like this. Okay, disapproving. I just said if the, if Shay wins the, if they win the series and Shay wins the mvp. He's a Hall of Famer.

[Tim Bontemps]

Yeah, no question.

[Brian Windhorst]

Yeah.

[Tim MacMahon]

Also, also he's just starting his prime.

[Brian Windhorst]

Correct.

[Tim Bontemps]

Look, there's one, there's one MVP ever that might not get in the hall of Fame. Derek Rose is Derrick Rose and honestly with the way the hall of Fame is, Derrick Rose might get in the hall of Fame. So if Sheikh Zogzader wins finals MVP and they win a title like yes, he could walk in today if his career ends.

[Tim MacMahon]

What we just need to accept, embrace and enjoy is Shea Gilders. Alexander is writing and he's early in the book, one of the best careers in NBA history.

[Brian Windhorst]

And listen, he's got a great chance.

[Tim MacMahon]

They're going to have a chance because when you talk about all time greats, team success has to be a big one.

[Tim Bontemps]

I think I'm about to be writing a story about that kind of in the next week. We'll see, see what happens.

[Brian Windhorst]

Well, you saw success.

[Tim MacMahon]

I didn't know you were right.

[Tim Bontemps]

No, no, no. I don't mean it that way.

[Tim MacMahon]

But I mean seriously, the guy is just entering his prime. He's still getting better year after year after year. Led the league in this year in very efficient fashion while stuffing the box score Otherwise for a 68 win team that is full of guys who are continuing to get better and better.

[Brian Windhorst]

By the way, he's averaged over 30 points. So we're in the scoring era in the NBA. I realize that there are some years in the 60s where scoring was even.

[Tim Bontemps]

Higher in a scoring era. We'll just say it that way.

[Brian Windhorst]

Okay, fine. We're in a scoring era. The scoring now in the last 4, 4 ish years, especially post pandemic, is much higher than it was 10 years ago. Even having said that, he is averaged over 30 points three straight years and shot over 50% all three of those years. Yeah, that's like the stuff that like Wilt did.

[Tim MacMahon]

Yeah. And his, the like this, the stake of his shooting diet are mid range jumpers.

[Brian Windhorst]

Yeah, he's a perimeter player first off shooting over 50% as a perimeter player is unusual.

[Tim Bontemps]

Yeah. Rarefied air, for sure.

[Brian Windhorst]

Exemplary. You know, doing it when you're averaging.

[Tim MacMahon]

30, what's going to end up happening? Even though the Thunder are a bunch of Boy Scouts, like, you know, they just are. They're going to end up being hated because team people, if you're not a Thunder fan, people are going to get so sick of seeing these guys in late May and June.

[Tim Bontemps]

People already are. I mean, look, all year we talked about. And again, we keep talking like the series is over, but we talked all year people kept saying, oh, not really worried about playing the Thunder in the playoffs. Not really concerned about playing the Thunder. Think we can beat the Thunder? You know, their offense is simple. They're young.

[Brian Windhorst]

By the way, I don't think the series is over. I think it's going to be 2:2. And I say that because the Thunder have dropped a road game in every series so far and the Pacers have not played.

[Tim Bontemps]

Yeah, they swept Memphis.

[Brian Windhorst]

That's true. I didn't even count it.

[Tim MacMahon]

They dropped a road half there, though. Then it came back. That's 29 down.

[Tim Bontemps]

They tried to lose a game in.

[Tim MacMahon]

Every series that they were facing an opponent that had any level of a fighting chance.

[Brian Windhorst]

Denver. And they lost in Minneapolis.

[Tim MacMahon]

This is fair.

[Brian Windhorst]

And you know, there was, you know, the one in Minneapolis I was at was a stinker. And Indy hasn't had a great performance yet. Now maybe, maybe they're not capable of great performance against them, but now Indy's.

[Tim Bontemps]

Had a great hit shots. And if they hit shots, the Thunder are also very capable of going 8 for 40 from 3.

[Brian Windhorst]

I am in agreement that the Thunder are clearly the better team, which is not a surprise. They were heavily, heavily favored. Whatever. I am not at the point where I'm feeling to say it's over.

[Tim Bontemps]

Well, there's. I mean, look, there's a lot of games left to be played. There's all sorts of things that are left to happen. People can get hurt. Crazy bounces could happen. I mean, the thunder were 3/10 of a second away from being the third team ever to lead wire to wire in a game. And instead it's 1:1.

[Tim MacMahon]

Yeah.

[Tim Bontemps]

So, you know, like, that could easily. Like stuff like that could still happen.

[Tim MacMahon]

But, you know, by the way, changing the subject here, but I'm shocked that Carlisle pulled the plug with four minutes left. I know, four minutes, 17 points. I get it. But dude, that's what this team does. They pull off miracles. That. Really shocked.

[Brian Windhorst]

So I will say so. I Remember I was watching on tv. I was in the back. Johnny Furfy.

[Tim MacMahon]

Yeah.

[Brian Windhorst]

Who I can't remember ever playing a total straight garbage non minute. No offense to him. He's a rookie.

[Tim MacMahon]

Yeah.

[Brian Windhorst]

Johnny Furfee comes to the scores table and he's at the scorers table for like three.

[Tim MacMahon]

He got up when he was. I think they were down 23.

[Brian Windhorst]

It was like three or four possessions. He's at the scores table.

[Tim MacMahon]

And they went on a little 6, 0 run.

[Brian Windhorst]

He did. And Mark Dagenau called timeout. And I go, well, he's not actually going to bring Johnny Furfee into this game now.

[Tim MacMahon]

But he pulled the plug and it.

[Brian Windhorst]

Put him for halibut left.

[Tim Bontemps]

Yeah, I mean, I. I was okay with it.

[Brian Windhorst]

Now, by the way, just real quick.

[Tim MacMahon]

Rick was asked about it and he said sometimes you have to make tough decisions. That was an easy one.

[Tim Bontemps]

I didn't think. I did not think they were coming back.

[Brian Windhorst]

I understand.

[Tim MacMahon]

I didn't think they were coming back when they're 14 down with less than three minutes left against the Knicks.

[Brian Windhorst]

So by the way, there was some footage the other night of Tyrese limping a little bit in the post game interview. He's not been on the injury report. He practiced today and Rick Carlisle was asked about it and he said that he's been in some discomfort. That's all he said.

[Tim Bontemps]

So Tyrese was asked about to and from the podium.

[Tim MacMahon]

No, he wasn't. And you know, they. They were. They actually did more than you usually see in the open portion of practice. You know, he was running around. He looked fine. He had some like. What's the. The black tape? Yeah, Kinesio tape, a little bit of tape on it. But Tyrese was asked about it and he said, I'm fine. He said something along the lines of, it's a lower leg issue and I'm gonna leave it at that. I'll be playing tomorrow.

[Brian Windhorst]

All right. Noted.

[Tim Bontemps]

This episode is brought to you by Amazon Prime.

[Brian Windhorst]

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C loads.com SameDay Delivery for details My day kicks off with a refreshing Celsius energy drink. Then straight to the gym, pre K pickup back home to meal prep.

[Brian Windhorst]

Time for my fire station shift.

[Tim Bontemps]

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[Brian Windhorst]

Your local retailer or locate [e-mail] I was literally on this spot in this atrium that I stood in the spring of 2012 doing hits every half hour on the half hour when the pacers got up 2:1 on the heat. And it was two days off between games three and four and the heat canceled practice. They'd already lost to the Mavericks of year one. So year two, this is like, oh, my God, the Heat might lose again. And when the Heat canceled practice, it was treated as like a breaking news event. It was like on the scroll.

[Tim Bontemps]

That was one of the first times I was ever. We were ever doing the same thing because we. I was here covering that series for the New York Post for the same reason. Everybody was like, oh, man. Yeah, here go the Heat.

[Tim MacMahon]

So, by the way, this is a great arena and it's got like. It's got like kind of an old school. It's not an old arena, but it's got kind of like that old school.

[Brian Windhorst]

Yeah, that was the rare. It's the rare.

[Tim MacMahon]

It's a field.

[Tim Bontemps]

It's the rare arena in the NBA that's built solely for basketball, not surprisingly.

[Brian Windhorst]

And they built it to look old. They built it. I mean, to say it was model on Hinkle Field House wouldn't be exactly fair, but they, they wanted to have that old feel.

[Tim MacMahon]

Oh, by the way, you know what's happening in Hinkle Field House tonight? Oh, media pickup run. Shout out to Mac 10 for getting that thing organized.

[Tim Bontemps]

Don't leave Scott. Agnes. Shout out to Scott.

[Tim MacMahon]

Agnes. Scott.

[Brian Windhorst]

Don't blow your Achilles.

[Tim MacMahon]

Dude, why would you say that?

[Brian Windhorst]

Okay, Giannis Lumpo gave it's good job window.

[Tim MacMahon]

I mean, good job. Like, this is offensive.

[Tim Bontemps]

First he's predicting the outcome of the series, now he's predicting injuries. It's not.

[Brian Windhorst]

I didn't. I just said don't be careful. Stretch it out, stretch it out. Loosen it up.

[Tim Bontemps]

Just don't speak that into existence. What you do.

[Tim MacMahon]

Easy, cowboy.

[Brian Windhorst]

All Right. You're playing a lot recently. Just. I'm just worried.

[Tim MacMahon]

Yeah, I'll be fine.

[Brian Windhorst]

All right.

[Tim MacMahon]

I've survived every time.

[Brian Windhorst]

All right, good. Okay, so look, Giannis gave some weird interview in Brazil. I'm disregarding it. I am just going to say that what I can tell you is that Giannis is on vacation overseas doing stuff, and there has been no trade demand, no trade request. There is no meeting scheduled. As far as I. I'm sure the Bucks have taken a lot of calls from people saying, hey, oh, yeah, if you have any interest in trading number 34, just. This is maybe what we're willing to do or please call me or whatever.

[Tim Bontemps]

Right.

[Brian Windhorst]

But as far as I know, I don't know if the Bucks have made.

[Tim MacMahon]

Any outgoing costs and to your point that you. You said on TV today the Bucks don't have interest in trading Giannis. If Giannis asked to be traded, then they're going to have to, you know.

[Brian Windhorst]

Right. But that's not a no brainer statement considering where they're at.

[Tim MacMahon]

Well, but, but my understanding of John Horst philosophy, and actually this gets back to former Bucs coach John Nelson. He. What do you say? Something along paraphrasing, but with this whole Luke of protest. He said something along the line of, when you get that kind of a player, you keep them forever if you can. You honor them, you put their numbers in the rafter. Like, you never say farewell unless, you know, he didn't say this, but unless you're.

[Brian Windhorst]

Afterwards, you build a statue of him taking a fallaway shot outside the arena.

[Tim MacMahon]

You do all of those things. And Giannis, obviously is that kind of a player. He's a guy who's delivered a championship.

[Brian Windhorst]

By the way, I know the story has been told before, but Nelly retold the story of draft night when Paul Pierce slid in the draft and all of a sudden Pierce was there when the. When the Mags were taking and.

[Tim MacMahon]

And he was Nelly's favorite player in.

[Brian Windhorst]

The draft, and he was like, bleep. My favorite player in the draft is here.

[Tim MacMahon]

But Donnie had been hiding Dirk out and made him a promise, right?

[Brian Windhorst]

Yeah. They had promised Dirk they were going to take him. And, you know, Dirk shut down all workouts and so they had promised him.

[Tim MacMahon]

And actually were able to trade down to get him. You know, they traded down with Milwaukee, the Milwaukee Bucks, who took Robert tractor trailer at 6.

[Brian Windhorst]

Dirk rip to tractor trailer. My only thing I'll say about tractor is when I, when I got hit in the face in Seattle, tractor fell on the Floor. He literally, when I say fell on the floor, he literally fell off the chair at the end of the bench onto the ground laughing at me. That's a deep cut for But Tractor.

[Tim Bontemps]

Go back and find the story.

[Brian Windhorst]

Wonderful man. I loved Tractor. I can't speak to what he did at all times. I loved covering.

[Tim MacMahon]

I'll tell you what, why don't you come to Hinkle Field House tonight? And since you're so worried about my Achilles, you might have a ball hit you in the face there. If you want to sit courtside and.

[Brian Windhorst]

Watch that one, I'll bet there's some people fall on the ground laughing then, too. You'll probably be pushing him down. All right. Anyway, Nelly tells the story about how he was like, oh, my God, we might have to take Pierce and Donnie telling him, nope, you promised. All right.

[Tim MacMahon]

It worked out okay for everybody.

[Brian Windhorst]

So, anyway, Giannis is. There is. I'm going to tell you right now, and we're recording this in the afternoon of June 10th. I do not know what the world will look like on June 25th. Is that the draft? June 25th. I do not know what the world will look like on July 10th. I don't know what the world will look like on 8 on August 10th. But on June 10th, I am saying there is no Giannis trade happening.

[Tim MacMahon]

Wait, you're saying there's none happening now, or you're predicting that he will be on the Bucks next season?

[Tim Bontemps]

Look, here's what I would say. I would say we're not going to know anything about where Giannis is at on the Bucs until we see where the Bucs roster is in a month. I don't know that for sure. It's not. Wouldn't say it's a straight reporting, but I think if you look at where the Bucs are with Dame Lillard with his injury and where they are with their finances, let's see where the Bucs are at in a month. Let's see what they put around.

[Brian Windhorst]

Let's talk about that real quick. Okay, so the Bucs have been heavy, heavy taxpayers. They've been in the repeater tax. They've spent tens of millions in tax. They've lost tens of millions in.

[Tim Bontemps]

They've spent hundreds of millions in tax, I believe.

[Brian Windhorst]

Okay. A lot of money, whatever it is. The Bucs have a window to get out of the tax this year, which is really something you want to do when one of your star players is going to be out for, if not the whole year. A lot of the year with the Achilles. Which is why I think we're going to see the Celtics in the same boat cut payroll.

[Tim Bontemps]

Here's a little trivia question for you on that. All right, so per Sportico, I was looking this up because I took a screenshot of it the other day. The Bucks have spent. Believe it's a Sportico. A spot track, I should say. Sorry. The bucks have spent $219 million in tax over the past 13 years. There are five teams that have spent more money in tax who are ever.

[Brian Windhorst]

Or over the last 13 years.

[Tim MacMahon]

Suns, Suns, Warriors, Warriors, Celtics.

[Tim Bontemps]

Not the Celtics. Celtics are seventh.

[Brian Windhorst]

The Cavs paid a lot, but I don't know if they paid that much. I don't think they did.

[Tim Bontemps]

Cavs are eighth, 135 million.

[Tim MacMahon]

Five teams that have spent more.

[Tim Bontemps]

You got the Warriors. The warriors are first with 748 million in tax.

[Tim MacMahon]

Oh, Lakers.

[Tim Bontemps]

Lakers are fourth.

[Tim MacMahon]

Okay, so I got three of them.

[Tim Bontemps]

Tax.

[Tim MacMahon]

Clippers.

[Tim Bontemps]

Clippers, 406 million. Tax. There's one other team.

[Tim MacMahon]

I'm missing one.

[Brian Windhorst]

Not the Mavericks.

[Tim Bontemps]

Not the Mavericks.

[Tim MacMahon]

Not the. No, they. Cuban was a cheapo until he sold for a while.

[Tim Bontemps]

Another comet like super team.

[Tim MacMahon]

Nets.

[Tim Bontemps]

The Nets. Oh, my. That spent 349 million.

[Brian Windhorst]

Well, the Nets got the least bang for the Suns because it was one year.

[Tim Bontemps]

You got to remember 2012 not only counts the big three of KD, Kyrie and Harden. It also counts. Goes back to Katie, Mikhail Prokoroff team that I covered with Paul Pearson, Kevin Garden.

[Brian Windhorst]

Suns did make the finals once. I don't think they. They were paying a lot for that team, but they didn't make.

[Tim MacMahon]

No, but they're. Yeah, their payments came.

[Tim Bontemps]

Their payments came late post fines.

[Brian Windhorst]

I know, but how many playoff series for all that tax money have the. Have the Nets won in the last 13 years?

[Tim Bontemps]

They won two.

[Tim MacMahon]

Yeah. Yeah, two.

[Brian Windhorst]

All right.

[Tim MacMahon]

And how many playoff series are the Bucks going to win moving forward under this current.

[Brian Windhorst]

Well, here's my question. Okay, look, even if Giannis comes out between now when this podcast posts and says, I am not trading ironclad, lock me in, the Bucks have a whole bunch of big decisions to make. They got to make a decision on Brook Lopez. Are they resigning him? I don't see how they can't. And if they're resigning, for how much? Bobby Porter has an option in his contract.

[Tim Bontemps]

If they resign Brook Lopez for basically any number, they're guaranteed to be in the tax barring a lot of moves.

[Brian Windhorst]

Well, how do you look Giannis in the eye and say, we want you to Stay and let Brook Lopez walk.

[Tim Bontemps]

This is why I would say let's see where the Bucks are at.

[Brian Windhorst]

Well, here's the thing. I think the Bucs believe that even with Dame out for the majority, if not all, of next season, in all honesty, like, I know that Achilles tendon surgeries have improved, but like, it's hard for me to be able to honestly say with the straight face. I think he could come back, but okay, let's say that he can come back for the playoffs. The Bucks believe they're going to have to spend some money on a replacement point guard.

[Tim Bontemps]

Yeah, I mean, look, they don't have. They have hardly any draft picks.

[Brian Windhorst]

They have one first round pick they can trade.

[Tim MacMahon]

Right. Where's their pick next season? You know, off the top of your head, New Orleans.

[Brian Windhorst]

I think New Orleans controls it the next three years.

[Tim Bontemps]

Yes. Between picks and swaps, they don't control their pick for quite a while.

[Tim MacMahon]

It's. But that's the thing. It's tough even to try to convince, to say with a straight face it can be a reset type of season.

[Brian Windhorst]

Maybe, maybe Minnesota has one of their picks because I think it went to New York.

[Tim Bontemps]

I'd have to go look at specifically who, actually. But look, that's why I say let's see where their at in a month. Let's see, you know, let's see the pieces they can put around him a month from now. Let's see if Brooke Lopez is on the roster. My point is that they do.

[Brian Windhorst]

My point is this. For all the teams that are moving into draft season and the beginning of free agency who were thinking that they may be able to go for Giannis, I don't think that's going to be on the table. Doesn't mean. Again, I can't speak about August 10th. On June 10th. I would, I would, I wouldn't say that about almost any team. Shay Gilxander will be on the Thunder August 10th. That I'll say probably with a big new.

[Tim MacMahon]

Yeah, I would have said at this point in the Finals last year, Luka Donston would be on the Mavericks. But I feel like, yeah, I feel more confident about Shaykh Shay ain't going anywhere.

[Brian Windhorst]

But if you're a team that's looking to make a major move, like, I don't think that is going to be available for Giannis between now and the short term future.

[Tim Bontemps]

Yeah, I mean, I would say we're in the same position we've been in for a couple months now, which is that this summer is going to be full of uncertainty. And you've got uncertainty in Milwaukee, you've got uncertainty in Boston, you've got uncertainty in Phoenix, you've got uncertainty in places like.

[Brian Windhorst]

I think it's more likely that Durant does get moved.

[Tim Bontemps]

Well, no, but again, it's uncertainty what is going to happen.

[Brian Windhorst]

It's uncertain today, but I think it's.

[Tim Bontemps]

No, but I just mean in general. You don't know what he's going to turn into. You don't know what they're going to look like.

[Brian Windhorst]

There's uncertainty, there's uncertainty that go off season for the majority of teams.

[Tim Bontemps]

But I mean, like there's major uncertainty with Kevin Durant. What's going to happen with Giannis? What's going to happen with the Celtics? Are the Rockets going to push in pieces? Are the spurs going to push in pieces? Are the warriors going to push in pieces? What are the Lakers going to do? Like, there's, there are a lot of big name players and big name teams that have. What are the Mavericks going to do? They have a lot of things they have to figure out.

[Tim MacMahon]

I mean, are the Jazz going to shop? Larry Mark. Right.

[Tim Bontemps]

There's, there's a ton of stuff they.

[Brian Windhorst]

Should because they're not going anywhere in the West.

[Tim Bontemps]

They absolutely should. But there's a lot of stuff like that that's all sitting out there as maybes, just a ton of maybes.

[Brian Windhorst]

But for the sake of this discussion with Giannis, don't sell your Giannis 34 jerseys.

[Tim MacMahon]

Yeah. And by the way I looked it up, the Pelicans have their pick via swap rights next year.

[Tim Bontemps]

Right?

[Brian Windhorst]

Right. But I think they, there's two or three that were outstanding still.

[Tim MacMahon]

Yeah, they're out for a while.

[Tim Bontemps]

Yeah, it's still, I think 20, 30 that they don't have control of their draft. So I mean, look, it's, it's a, it's a difficult spot. And I, look, I also, like we talked about a little bit the other day with Devin Booker thing, like, you get a player like giannis. There were 50 years between titles in Milwaukee. One they had Kareem and Oscar Robertson, the other they had Giannis De kupo. Those are three of the top 20 players of all time.

[Brian Windhorst]

Right.

[Tim Bontemps]

And don't get those players.

[Brian Windhorst]

They traded Kareem and they didn't get back to the finals for 40 years.

[Tim MacMahon]

Right. And you know what if Giannis does some soul searching on his international travels and says, hey, I'm good in Milwaukee, I want to stick around Milwaukee, great. You don't, you don't Trade the guy like Dirk. That's what I was going to say.

[Tim Bontemps]

Dirk's got one of the coolest legacies of anybody in the last 20.

[Brian Windhorst]

He's got a restaurant at the airport in Dallas. I just saw yesterday.

[Tim MacMahon]

And they. Let's just be honest, the Mavericks botched Dirk's twilight from a personnel standpoint pretty badly.

[Brian Windhorst]

Well, because he gave up a whole ton of money, and they do anything.

[Tim Bontemps]

With it, but they also. They made a lot of mistakes, too.

[Tim MacMahon]

Yeah, they like. There's a lot of. They. They didn't like when he. After that championship, he there, he still had a good five years where he could have been.

[Brian Windhorst]

That's true.

[Tim MacMahon]

You know, a contributor on a contender.

[Brian Windhorst]

And they weren't able to give up money.

[Tim MacMahon]

Yeah, they weren't able to put him in that situation again. We'll see what happens in Milwaukee. We'll see if Giannis is there long term. We'll see if they're able to build around him. But my point is this. I don't think anybody regrets Dirk staying in Dallas and spending his entire career there now. And Dirk admitted this back when he was playing, it would have been hard for him not to consider going elsewhere to chase a ring if he didn't have one. Of course, Giannis has one now. Giannis is also on the record basically saying, hey, if I don't get at least two, I feel like I've let myself down.

[Brian Windhorst]

Well, look, when you're 29 years old, you can't say, well, that's good for me. Like, at the end, Dirk was like, you know, that was a great run. But when you're 29, you can't say, well, if we make it in the first round the next five years, I'm.

[Tim MacMahon]

Especially when you're still a top three player in the world.

[Brian Windhorst]

Like, I don't. I don't put too much into that. Darius Carlin had surgery on Monday on his toe, his great toe, his big.

[Tim MacMahon]

Toe, for the thing that had him questionable for multiple playoff games.

[Brian Windhorst]

Correct.

[Tim MacMahon]

Yeah.

[Brian Windhorst]

First suffered the injury in March, causing a miss. Multiple playoff games re. Aggravated the injury in the first game of the playoffs, and it really impacted him the rest of the way. In that series against the Pacers, he only shot 34%, 18% on threes. He was not himself very clearly. He did make the All Star team this year. He'll be out four to five months, likely probably not going to be. I mean, you know, he has a surgery June 9th. Four months is October 9th. So that's second week of training camp. Five months is November 9th. You're in the third week of the season, so whatever. Yeah, if he's not starting opening night, it won't be a surprise. There were people that felt that he could have played through that injury, and people also criticized Evan Mobley for not playing through an ankle injury. Clearly, Garland was dealing with something pretty severe. He did wait four weeks to have the surgery. He also, in the, in the release, it said that he had consulted with multiple different doctors. So maybe, I don't know for sure, but maybe this is one of those where they were trying to decide between having the surgery or trying to let it heal. Heel ended up having the surgery a month after the season. Now the Cavs are, you know, facing starting season without him. But more than that, there was some, there was some wonder about whether the Cavs would interest in trading him. I never thought they would trade him. I thought they would answer the phone if he got, if he got traded. I never thought they would trade him. Kobe Altman, their president, was on the record as saying he wanted to see what this team could do fully healthy. That appears to be the way they're going. It's just going to be wild before they're helpful.

[Tim MacMahon]

And Kobe Altman absolutely loves Darius Garland. He was the first one of those core four, you know, and I wrote a story about Garland this year and kind of the bounce back year that he had after, you know, the year before the broken jaw, lost a bunch of weight, you know, wasn't himself in the playoffs, all those sorts of things. Kobe made a point to remind me that they drafted him basically off four and a half games of, of film at Vanderbilt. Not just, I mean, you know, there's a lot more than one, but essentially saying, hey, the guy barely played in college.

[Brian Windhorst]

They drafted Kyrie off 10 games at Duke. That worked out.

[Tim MacMahon]

Yeah. But it basically his point was like, we liked him that much where he only played four and a half games in college and they still picked him. What was that, like, the fourth overall pick?

[Brian Windhorst]

It was fourth.

[Tim MacMahon]

Yeah.

[Tim Bontemps]

Fifth.

[Brian Windhorst]

Oh, fifth.

[Tim MacMahon]

Top five pick.

[Tim Bontemps]

Top five pick for sure. I think they would think it was fifth. I mean, look, Cavs are an interesting spot. They had a great season, 64 wins, awesome offense, great year. They go out in flames in the second round. Wasn't the most impressive performance. Just be honest about it being nice. Some of it was like Darius Garland was clearly not himself. Right. Some of it was they got worked by the Pacers.

[Brian Windhorst]

Pacers were also just red hot.

[Tim Bontemps]

Well, they were red hot and look like we talked about the Cavs have places to attack on defense like they have. Yes. They've got Evan Mobley, who, you know, deserved the one defensive player of the year, and they've got Jared Allen. They've also got a lot of mediocre to bad perimeter defenders. Now, it's something we talked about a lot during the season. How would that go in the playoffs? Well, the Pacers repeatedly attack them and they really couldn't do anything about it. So you go into this summer, you're looking at the Pacers next year you go, well, what should you do with the team?

[Tim MacMahon]

Well, the Cavs next year.

[Tim Bontemps]

Yeah, what's right, you look at the Pacers as, hey, we got. That's the team we're looking at going in next year. Want to get to the finals, what do we do? If you look at where the league is right now, just about every team has a point guard, Just about every team has a center. Right. So if you're looking at the Cavs, you're not trading Evan Mobley, not trading Donovan Mitchell.

[Tim MacMahon]

The Suns don't have either, but go on.

[Tim Bontemps]

Well, yes, there are certain teams that don't, but most teams have those positions filled. So if you're looking at the Cavs, you say, all right, if you want to make a big shake up trade, right? If you want to shake up the core four, you're either going to trade Jared Allen, you're going to trade Darius Garland. Well, those two positions are the deepest positions in the league. So you're already going to have a hard time getting equal value back in a trade. And now Darius Garland's having toe surgery and is out till the fall.

[Brian Windhorst]

It's not going to derail his career, but you're not going to get maximum.

[Tim Bontemps]

Value when the guy's just had surgery on his toes. So to me, where the Cavs are at is very simple. Obviously it was a very disappointing end to what was an awesome season. But the questions for me are, do you want to invest in Ty Jerome? Do you want to invest in Sam Merrill? Do you want to try to find other ways to maybe get another better perimeter defender or two that could play? Because Isaac Coro is not a good offensive player to be a 16 game player in the playoffs. And you try to go into next year's playoffs healthy and you give it another run because again, all these guys are young, they're in their 20s, they're all under contract. There's no reason for the Cavs to panic and blow this team up.

[Brian Windhorst]

Yeah, I think they owe Themselves the due diligence to listen to option opportunities. Because starting on July 1st, they enter the second apron and the chances of putting together a large trade after getting the second apron are dramatically reduced. Just because you want to vet. Vet the market and make sure that you don't enter the second apron without turning over every rock doesn't mean that you want to make a trade. But that's the truth. Second apron is a real thing. I know it's annoying to people, but that's the reality.

[Tim Bontemps]

So we got game three, Wednesday night. First, I want a prediction. You already predicted it's going to be.

[Tim MacMahon]

Hold on.

[Tim Bontemps]

You already predicted it's going to be two. Two. So the Pacers winning game three or game four?

[Brian Windhorst]

I didn't use the word predict.

[Tim Bontemps]

You predicted it was going to be two. Two, two.

[Tim MacMahon]

You've made two predictions.

[Tim Bontemps]

So which game are they going to win?

[Tim MacMahon]

And then I was going to blow my Achilles.

[Brian Windhorst]

I predict that McMahon's going to dominate tonight.

[Tim Bontemps]

Are they going to win game three or game four? Just call it. Who cares? He already said they're winning one of them.

[Brian Windhorst]

I'm not getting that. I'm not going to be held down to that.

[Tim Bontemps]

All right, well, you already said it. And also shout out to our guy, Tyler Ford.

[Tim MacMahon]

Oh, little fella.

[Tim Bontemps]

Game three, friend of the pod. Friend of the pod. He's going to be doing his first ever NBA Finals game tonight. Tyler obviously came on the pod. Great guy, listener to the pod. So hopefully he has a clean game and I don't have to do the pool report with his fellows after the game.

[Tim MacMahon]

Pressure. Not screwing up a couple calling the finals, but having to talk to him.

[Brian Windhorst]

Can you believe that he's been designated as a pool reporter for these games? Like the NBA has all these people to choose from.

[Tim MacMahon]

Dude, they choose him.

[Tim Bontemps]

They want to make sure it's done right.

[Tim MacMahon]

None of the rest.

[Tim Bontemps]

Not calling this guy listen. I think they're calling this guy.

[Tim MacMahon]

Listen. I'll give Tyler Ford credit. He is the only active referee who has admitted that he's under 6ft tall. All these other little fellas tell me they're six feet. They're lying. They're lying. Gucci Mane, James Williams, he. He's Revised that to 5. 11. He lies an inch less every time I see him.

[Tim Bontemps]

Well, after all that shout out to Tyler and also the officiating, pretty cool. He's doing the game tomorrow.

[Brian Windhorst]

Knock on wood. The officiating has been very good in this series so far. Maybe the Pacers would like the few more fouls called in the thunder, but.

[Tim Bontemps]

I don't think it's been shockingly the best referees are doing the finals and the games are looking pretty good. So.

[Brian Windhorst]

All right. Thank you for watching Hoop Collective. Thank you to Jackson and Rafa who are behind the scenes here. Thank you to everybody who's making this possible out on the road, and thank you to McMahon and Bontemps. We'll be talking to you later this week.

[Tim MacMahon]

Audio Samigos.