NBA Finals Game 5 Reaction: Historic Win For Thunder

Summary

Brian Windhorst & The Hoop Collective Episode: NBA Finals Game 5 Reaction: Historic Win For Thunder
Release Date: June 17, 2025

In this electrifying episode of Brian Windhorst & The Hoop Collective, ESPN’s premier NBA insider Brian Windhorst teams up with NBA Champion and analyst Iman Shumpert, alongside Tim Bontemps and special guest Stephen A. Smith, to dissect the Thunder's monumental victory in Game 5 of the NBA Finals. Recorded on the court at the Paycom Center just minutes after the game, the panel delves deep into the strategies, standout performances, and pivotal moments that defined this historic win for the Thunder franchise.

1. Thunder’s Defensive Prowess

Brian Windhorst opens the discussion by highlighting the Thunder's exceptional defensive performance:

“They had 27 blocks and steals. 15 steals and 12 blocks. Seven different guys had a steal. Seven different guys had a block. My God.” (02:20)

Iman Shumpert echoes this sentiment, praising the team's defensive intensity:

“They were everywhere tonight. There was no driving room available. Halliburton surveyed. He, he probed down the baseline. He did everything he could. There was no getting in the pain.” (02:16)

The Thunder's ability to disrupt the Pacers' offense was a key factor in their 11-point triumph. The panel emphasizes the importance of their defensive principles, which not only limited the Pacers' scoring opportunities but also created turnovers that the Thunder capitalized on effectively.

2. Jalen Williams' Breakout Performance

A significant portion of the conversation centers around Jalen Williams, whose stellar performance was instrumental in the Thunder's victory.

Brian Windhorst recalls Williams' journey:

“By the way, he had. He laid some eggs this year in some big games, including the NBA Cup Final. Remember that they scored 81 points in that game.” (04:06)

Highlighting Williams’ growth, Iman Shumpert commends his efficiency and clutch play:

“He's 24 years old. It was efficient, though. That's what I liked about it.” (04:22)
“He's gettting a one. And I thought them playing Batman, Robin back and forth. And the weird thing was Shay was Robin tonight.” (04:28)

Williams not only dropped 40 points but did so with remarkable efficiency, shooting 62% from the field. His ability to score under pressure and make decisive plays was a game-changer, pushing the Thunder closer to their first championship in franchise history.

3. Tyrese Haliburton’s Struggles and Injury Concerns

The panel turns their attention to Tyrese Haliburton, whose performance raised eyebrows during Game 5.

Brian Windhorst notes Haliburton's subdued play and possible injury:

“Halliburton appeared to tweak his calf in the first half. I was talking to some people who were sitting down courtside... he was pretty much a ball mover and a floor spacer. He wasn't an attacker at all.” (06:25)

Iman Shumpert observes Haliburton's lackluster aggression:

“He wasn’t in attack mode at all. But I've seen that time and time again, and in the last three minutes he could turn it up. So I don't know how much of it just wasn't a rhythm.” (07:14)

Stephen A. Smith delivers a critical analysis of the coach’s handling of Haliburton:

“... Halliburton is not a rookie. And not only that, you closed out Milwaukee, you closed out Cleveland, you closed out New York, you closed out OKC in game one. You've done enough in your postseason career to be able to say, coach, not only do I not have it tonight because I'm not 100%, but look at what my man is doing.” (17:13)

The discussion raises questions about coach Rick Carlisle’s decision to keep Haliburton in the game despite his apparent struggles, suggesting that a more strategic benching might have altered the game’s outcome.

4. T.J. McConnell’s Heroic Effort

Tim Bontemps shines a spotlight on T.J. McConnell, whose performance was nothing short of extraordinary:

“T.J. mcConnell was their best guard in this game, without a doubt.” (07:30)
“...the guy was making shots. He was making. Got a point. I think he scored like nine or 11 straight.” (13:01)

McConnell's relentless scoring and playmaking abilities were pivotal, especially in the latter stages of the game. His performance not only provided the Thunder with a critical boost but also applied immense pressure on the Pacers, contributing significantly to the Thunder's clutch victory.

5. Thunder’s Bench and Role Players Step Up

The Thunder’s depth was a decisive factor, with several bench players delivering key performances.

Iman Shumpert praises the contributions of role players:

“They started running plays for him similar. It's the exact same thing... that makes people unaggressive. That's why the rim's so available.” (05:55)
“They make it to where your floor is unbalanced. When they take off on a breakaway, somebody makes a mistake, they're always shooting an inside out three, a layup at the rim.” (29:42)

Tim Bontemps highlights the efficiency and impact of the Thunder’s bench:

“Wallace was over eight from three in the series before this game. Two big threes in the first quarter immediately comes in, hit some shots.” (28:57)

Players like Aaron Wiggins, Casey Wallace, and Danny Caruso contributed significantly, both offensively and defensively. Their ability to generate turnovers and capitalize on fast-break opportunities provided the Thunder with the necessary momentum to secure the win.

6. Stephen A. Smith’s Critical Take

Adding depth to the analysis, Stephen A. Smith offers a critical perspective on the Pacers’ strategy and coach Carlisle’s decisions:

“... Halliburton's got to be able to produce. He was pretty much invisible in this game. Took one shot in the second half over six in the field.” (13:53)
“...but I think that Rick Carlisle made a mistake by not seeing that and making that decision.” (14:28)

Smith emphasizes the need for decisive coaching, especially in high-stakes moments, and critiques the Pacers for not effectively managing their key players’ performances under pressure.

7. Countdown to Game 6 and Future Implications

As the episode draws to a close, the panel discusses the looming challenges heading into Game 6.

Tim Bontemps underscores the importance of Haliburton’s return:

“If he's going to go over six or if he's just going to take even six shots in Game 6, the series is over.” (31:22)

Iman Shumpert remains optimistic about the Thunder’s chances:

“I low key think we're going to see a game seven. I don't know how they going to manufacture.” (31:53)

The consensus is clear: the Thunder must maintain their defensive intensity and leverage their bench depth to overcome the Pacers in the upcoming games. The Thunder’s historic win in Game 5 not only showcases their resilience but also sets the stage for a thrilling conclusion to the NBA Finals.

Key Takeaways:

• Thunder’s Defense: Exceptional with 27 blocks and steals, involving seven players.
• Jalen Williams: Breakout 40-point game demonstrating significant growth.
• Tyrese Haliburton: Struggled possibly due to a calf injury, sparking debate over coaching decisions.
• T.J. McConnell: Delivered one of his best postseason performances, crucial to the win.
• Bench Contributions: Wiggins, Wallace, and Caruso provided vital support, enhancing the team's depth.
• Stephen A. Smith’s Analysis: Criticizes coaching decisions regarding Haliburton, emphasizing the need for strategic adjustments.
• Looking Forward: Anticipation builds for Game 6, with the Thunder poised for a potential Game 7.

This episode of Hoop Collective Podcast offers an in-depth analysis of a pivotal Game 5, blending expert insights with passionate commentary. Whether you're an ardent Thunder fan or an NBA enthusiast, Brian Windhorst and his guests provide a comprehensive breakdown of what it takes to clinch a championship, making it a must-listen for anyone keen on the intricacies of basketball strategy and performance.

Transcript

[Iman Shumpert]

This episode is brought to you by State Farm.

[Brian Windhorst]

Knowing you could be saving money for the things you really want is a great feeling.

[Iman Shumpert]

Talk to a State Farm agent today.

[Brian Windhorst]

To learn how you can choose to.

[Iman Shumpert]

Bundle and save with the personal price plan.

[Brian Windhorst]

Like a good neighbor, State Farm is there. Prices are based on rating plans that vary by state. Coverage options are selected by the customer.

[Iman Shumpert]

Availability, amount of discounts and savings and.

[Brian Windhorst]

Eligibility vary by state.

[Tim Bontemps]

Foreign.

[Brian Windhorst]

Welcome to Collective Podcast. We talk about the NBA, which we're doing on the court here at the Paycom center. Just a few minutes after Game 5, the NBA Finals with Iman Shumpert, 2016 NBA Champion shump the Thunder just won probably the biggest game in the history of the franchise since they moved here and they won by 11. I've got some things to say about it, but I'm going to yield to you because I want to hear what you have to say first.

[Iman Shumpert]

Well, as good as the Pacers are, with no production from Nemhard, Haliburton or Matheran, you're not that deep a team. This team has found ways to stay within three possessions all year, all playoffs, and figured it out at the end. But they did so with constant production from those guys. Constant production from Siakam. Down the stretch, Siakam didn't have the best ball game. I thought he was off to a great start, but down the stretch, seeing all of those turnovers and then he got a little sloppy. Not used to seeing that. And there's no way you're going to think you're going to put somebody away playing like that toward the end of the game. Hats off to the Thunder, too. Playing small ball, all them defensive principles came back into play.

[Brian Windhorst]

They had 27 blocks and steals.

[Iman Shumpert]

Unbelievable.

[Brian Windhorst]

I'm going to say that again. They had 27 blocks and steals. 15 steals and 12 blocks. Seven different guys had a steal. Seven different guys had a block. My God.

[Iman Shumpert]

And I, and I loved it. Because even when they didn't get the block or the steal, sometimes it was just a deflection, sometimes just a deflection just to rattle somebody, sometimes just messing somebody's dribble up. But they were everywhere tonight. There was no driving room available. Halliburton surveyed. He, he probed down the baseline. He did everything he could. There was no getting in the pain.

[Brian Windhorst]

Yeah, there was some passes the Pacers threw that were not good.

[Iman Shumpert]

Unaggressive.

[Brian Windhorst]

Yeah.

[Iman Shumpert]

But that's what happens if you, if you lose all your angles, if you're, if you're a player that, that leads with aggression, if you lose that angle, lose that angle, lose that angle. Nine times out of 10, there is no pass available. Sometimes you really have to get by somebody to make a defensive mistake. Otherwise that shell gets really tight. So what we saw tonight was them not only guard guys, they guarded guys left to right so well tonight, but they also did a great job of being in passing lanes, being intentional on defense and making it to where on offense you had to play defense. They were guarding the ball. Halliburton started his dribble to the side of him. He plays like this. I watched him make two or three passes where he's on his heels, he's falling back, and it's just unaggressive. And whenever you have that unaggressive attitude, people can smell it. They smell blood tonight. That was wonderful defensive press.

[Brian Windhorst]

Well, before we talk about Halliburton more, we have to talk about Jalen Williams. You know, I came here for media day back in September. That photo that everybody sees of Jalen with his hair totally pulled out, Media day photo. It was just for media day. And he sat there and he talked about how last summer, you know, he had a. He had a couple of rough playoff games last year, including a game five here against Dallas was 2, 2. Same situation. 2, 2. He wasn't like he was a total dog in that game, but he just. He didn't bring it. And he talked about how tough it was to get himself to watch the film, and he made himself watch the film of how his. Of his bad moments. He was really determined to improve on that and get better. And he worked off that film. And by the way, he had. He laid some eggs this year in some big games, including the NBA Cup Final. Remember that they scored 81 points in that game.

[Iman Shumpert]

I actually don't remember that. I can't dial back today.

[Brian Windhorst]

Well, they played the Bucks. I think they had like 81 or 82 points, if you can believe that. So you look at him now, I mean, he has a 40 point game in a 2, 2 game, 5, 40 point game. He's 24 years old.

[Iman Shumpert]

It was efficient, though. That's what I liked about it.

[Brian Windhorst]

40 points on 25 shots and he did not settle.

[Iman Shumpert]

If you saw toward the end, they had a bunch of times, I don't know, Lee might have been within 9 to 12, something like that. And him and Shea had a couple of possessions where they would. They had it. They getting ready to squeeze and they like, nope, I'm driving this and I'm gonna go all the way. There and you, if you found me, I'm getting a one. And I thought them playing Batman, Robin back and forth. And the weird thing was Shay was Robin tonight.

[Brian Windhorst]

He was.

[Iman Shumpert]

Yeah, he like he robbing for. We. We just never saw that. Like, if you see that coming now going into, going into a game six and seeing how dangerous Jalen Williams could be, I don't really know what to do besides deny them the ball at the end, you know what I mean? I'm not seeing a game plan that you can do for that. I'm not seeing an available trap. That was just great basketball at the end, taking care of the basketball at the end. They got shot attempts rather than turnovers, rather than having to settle for a weird second chance opportunity. This was efficient A to B basketball. And, you know, I just love the way he just did that.

[Brian Windhorst]

So between the two of them tonight, 71 points, 14 assists. Shay was back to playing pretty much full time point guard tonight. He had 10 assists after having none the other night. 14 assists between them, three steals. They had seven rebounds.

[Iman Shumpert]

They got to that line, too. 26 free throws, no settling. But that. People don't talk about it enough. It's like that makes people unaggressive. That's why the rim's so available. Y' all got a couple fouls on them. Nobody wants to foul. Everybody hands out the cookie jar now. Free layups. They make you unaggressive.

[Brian Windhorst]

Yeah.

[Iman Shumpert]

Keep driving the ball. At home, kids. Good things happen when you drive the ball. I don't know why the basketball guy says so. It wasn't me.

[Brian Windhorst]

So Halliburton appeared to tweak his calf in the first half. I was talking to some people who were sitting down courtside. I was watching the game on tv. I didn't notice this on tv, but some people who are sitting here courtside said a few times when he drove into the lane, he winced whenever he went to push off that leg. So pretty much the last two and a half quarters, he was pretty much a ball mover and a floor spacer. He wasn't an attacker at all. I mean, he had no basket.

[Iman Shumpert]

Yeah, he wasn't in attack mode at all. But I've seen that time and time again, and in the last three minutes he could turn it up. So I don't know how much of it just wasn't a rhythm. He grimaced a lot, but I also saw him wearing that support on his back, so I'm not sure.

[Brian Windhorst]

Yeah, he always wears that. He always. When he's on the bench, he's always putting that back thing on, but I.

[Iman Shumpert]

Don'T know how that it was the way to fall. The fall looked pretty bad to me. Yeah, one ball, he had his legs sort of folded over him. Stayed down for a second. I didn't. Again, I didn't see the cab thing that everybody else saw.

[Brian Windhorst]

Yeah, I mean, it wasn't. I only know what they were showing on the broadcast. He. He stretched it. You know, it didn't look bad, but obviously if it was already bothering him, they could have done it. But I mean, I. Obviously he's known to have off games. This looked different. You know, this. He just, you know, he may have been passive, but I think he was also wounded. But look, you're out there playing. I don't know. I don't know how you do that. I mean, I know that. I know what players say, like, if you're out there, you're playing. He's out there. But, you know, T.J. mcConnell was their best guard in this game, without a doubt.

[Iman Shumpert]

And it's tough for him because he just. He just wasn't blessed with the right height to get some of those finishes at the end.

[Brian Windhorst]

He does.

[Iman Shumpert]

He has where he wants to go.

[Brian Windhorst]

Yeah, he has learned how to create his own shot where he just sort of creates a space I haven't looked at. You know, I suspect. I don't know for sure. I suspect there's going to be some second guessing of Carlisle not playing McConnell more in the fourth quarter. By the time you brought him in, it was kind of over. I'm not saying. I'm not really taking a position there because.

[Iman Shumpert]

Yeah, because it's at the end, you want to go with your guns.

[Brian Windhorst]

I agree.

[Iman Shumpert]

You got to go with your big guns. Like, it's tough down the stretch to lean on what didn't get you there. You know what I mean?

[Stephen A. Smith]

Yeah.

[Iman Shumpert]

And it's tough because he could be having the game in his life, but any coach would do it. You know what I mean? It's like going back to something that's just natural, like breathing. It's like, of course I'm gonna put my guy in is what I got.

[Brian Windhorst]

It's game five of the finals.

[Iman Shumpert]

Yeah, it's tough. Who do you sit? Cause you play them together. Like, who do you sit?

[Brian Windhorst]

Well, you called it right. I mean, Nemhardt also.

[Iman Shumpert]

You can't. You can't.

[Brian Windhorst]

This was his least impactful game.

[Iman Shumpert]

Gotta have more. More impact. You gotta at least be getting to the free throw line.

[Brian Windhorst]

He had some bad passes, too, on.

[Iman Shumpert]

Aggressive yeah, but it wasn't enough. Knifing through with intention. Everybody was sort of like, I don't know, it seemed like they were almost like trying to play where it's like, I'm not hot right now, so I don't want to do too much and it's got to be something natural. That's whether I'm hot, not hot, whatever. I have to do this for us to continue to and this is the first time we've seen it from Indiana. Yeah, we have not seen this side of them at all. That's what scares me.

[Brian Windhorst]

Well, they hadn't lost back to back games since March. It had been like over 40 games. Half the season. Yeah, basically half a season.

[Iman Shumpert]

I mean that's. Other people get involved in a lot of that, but I don't really get involved in that.

[Brian Windhorst]

Stephen A. Is staring at us.

[Iman Shumpert]

Oh no. I know what he's been to say More Hoop Collective podcast after this.

[Brian Windhorst]

We all know breakfast is an important part of your day, but sometimes when you're traveling for business, you end up staying at a hotel that doesn't offer any. And you know what happens? You grab a cup of coffee and skip the meal entirely. We've all been there. But if you book a room at La Quinta by Wyndham, you can enjoy their free Bright side breakfast featuring delicious baked goods, fruit, eggs, yogurt and waffles. And really, who doesn't want to start their day off with a fresh hot waffle? Tonight, La Quinta, tomorrow you shine. Book [e-mail] for men, dealing with ED can be uncomfortable, which is why HIMS provides access to a comfortable solution with an all online process and personalized treatment options. HIMSS is changing men's healthcare by providing you with access to affordable sexual health treatments from the comfort of your couch. HIMS provides access to a range of doctor trusted ED treatments like chewable tablets, Viagra and Cialis and their generics for up to 95% less. The process is 100% online, so there's no need for uncomfortable doctor's visits. Just fill out an intake form on their site and a medical provider will determine the right treatment option. If prescribed, your medication ships directly to you for for free. No insurance is needed and one low price covers everything from treatments to ongoing care. With hundreds of thousands of trusted subscribers, HIMSS can help you find the ED option that works for you. Start your free online Visit [e-mail] hoop that's H I M S.com hoop for personalized ED treatment options. Hisss.com hoop. The featured products include compounded products which are not approved or nor verified for safety, effectiveness or quality by the fda. Prescription required. See website for details, restrictions and important safety information. Price varies based on product and subscription plan. Close your eyes.

[Stephen A. Smith]

Exhale.

[Brian Windhorst]

Feel your body relax and let go of whatever you're carrying today. Well, I'm letting go of the worry that I wouldn't get my new contacts in time for this class. I got them delivered free from 1-800-contacts. Oh, my gosh, they're so fast. And breathe. Oh, sorry.

[Stephen A. Smith]

I almost couldn't breathe when I saw.

[Brian Windhorst]

The discount they gave me on my first order. Oh, sorry.

[Iman Shumpert]

Namaste. Visit 1-800-contacts.com today to save on your first order. 1-800-contacts. What you gonna say? You said. You said this. You said this already.

[Brian Windhorst]

Stephen A Has. He doesn't have enough. He doesn't have enough exposure.

[Iman Shumpert]

Come on in, my brother.

[Brian Windhorst]

Stephen A. Welcome to the HOOP Collective. I think it's your first appearance.

[Stephen A. Smith]

You know what? It's my first appearance on here. I don't know why I haven't gotten an invite earlier, but we'll talk about that another time. Brian Wenthorse. What's up, man?

[Iman Shumpert]

Ain't nothing, man. We sitting there talking about how do you get production if you're Indiana, if Nemhardt, Tyrese, Halliburton and Matheran don't give you any.

[Stephen A. Smith]

Well, here's the problem with Matheran and Nemhard. They know how to handle the ball well enough to get off a shot without and create a shot for themselves. They can't run an offense. They can't run a team. They're not point guards. They don't have that capability. That belongs to Halliburton. And when you look at Halliburton, it was one of, if not the most awful performance we've seen from a point guard in NBA finals history. Now, in fairness to him, he must be hurt. He must be hurt. There's no way that he could look that bad. He couldn't get loose. He couldn't get free. He could barely get a shot off. He looked timid. He looked almost petrified at times. I mean, they were coming at him like that. He had to have been hurt. I'm not going to assume that he's scared scared or anything. He's too big in the big moments for me to ever accuse him of being scared. But he's hurt. And if you're hurt now, we have to look at Rick Carlisle, 34.

[Brian Windhorst]

I know. 34 minutes he played in 34 minutes.

[Stephen A. Smith]

I know that. So it's the 34 minutes. But you also got to take into account, look at how T.J. mcConnell was playing. Look at what he did in that third quarter. I mean, the guy was making shots. He was making. Got a point. I think he scored like nine or 11 straight. You got to keep him in the game. When you know two things you. Number one, Halberton is not 100%. And number two, you know, you got a game six at your home turf on Thursday night, you got to be able to say, yo, I don't.

[Iman Shumpert]

We.

[Stephen A. Smith]

You got to sit down. You just don't have it tonight. And I think that Rick Carlisle made a mistake by not seeing that and making that decision.

[Brian Windhorst]

Yeah. I don't know what he said after the game. We'll find out.

[Stephen A. Smith]

He said that he's not 100. He said Halliburton's not 100%. Clearly, he wanted. They talked to him at halftime that Halliburton wanted to continue to try and play. He, et cetera. And I'm like, fine, try them out. Early in the third quarter, when you see that there is no difference, you yank them.

[Brian Windhorst]

Yeah.

[Stephen A. Smith]

Especially once you put T.J. mcConnell in the game and you saw the way that he was flowing. You got to take that chance.

[Iman Shumpert]

Especially when you know it's a shump.

[Brian Windhorst]

Was just talking. It's a gray area because you want to trust the guys that got you here.

[Stephen A. Smith]

Well, again, if you're. If you're yanking a dude from the game just because he's poor and you're worried about his confidence, I get that part. But you're able to look at him and say, you're hurt. You know, you hurt. Sit down because you can't move. We watch you go start treatment right now. We've seen you. We know you. We know this is not you. That's not a confidence issue. You know this. Whether or not you tell a player that, listen, go back there and get some treatment. You ain't healthy, that player is not going to have his confidence affected because he knows I'm not healthy. I'm hurt. I tried to work through it. I tried to play through it, but I couldn't. Coach made me go out there, get. Let me get ready for Game 6. That's all he had to do. He should not have capitulated to Halliburton's wishes. Once you saw how T.J. mcConnell was playing and you knew that Halliburton was hurt.

[Brian Windhorst]

Yeah, especially because McConnell was arguably having one of the games of his life.

[Stephen A. Smith]

Yes. The best game of his life. I mean, the best game. I don't know T.J. mcConnell play like that.

[Brian Windhorst]

I wish. I don't know if you were watching.

[Iman Shumpert]

I Wish he had 3 inches of height to finish at the end. At the end. He could have closed that game with a little bit of height.

[Brian Windhorst]

I don't know if you guys. You guys were watching, watching the broadcast. TJ Looked like he was a caged animal at Carlisle.

[Stephen A. Smith]

Yes.

[Brian Windhorst]

Like he was red. He was red.

[Stephen A. Smith]

We sitting up there in the suite and I could see it.

[Brian Windhorst]

Yeah, I see.

[Stephen A. Smith]

Because you just saw his head. You know, he wants it bad. And when you're a role player and you're on that kind of a role on the absolute biggest basketball stage, of course you're looking at the coach like coach, because you're saying to yourself, not only am I rolling, but your man is hurt. We all know it.

[Iman Shumpert]

And I could pick it, you know, and then.

[Stephen A. Smith]

And then, listen, I know Halliburton is a relatively young player, and I'm going to put most of it on Rick Carlisle in terms of that specific decision. But what about you saying, yo, man, coach, you see the way he's playing?

[Iman Shumpert]

Rolling.

[Stephen A. Smith]

He's rolling right now. He's rolling right now, Coach. Go with that. You know, you can do that as a player. You know.

[Iman Shumpert]

You know, we had Deli. You know we had deli. Matthew Dell of Dover. Yeah, well, everybody was hurt or everything was going wrong. We just didn't have it. And Deli just started firing off threes, and we rolled with it. We started running plays for him similar. It's the exact same thing, but it's what he said. When you see that happen, all bets off.

[Stephen A. Smith]

I don't care what we doing, especially on the biggest stage.

[Iman Shumpert]

Give me as much as you can.

[Stephen A. Smith]

No matter how young you are. Halliburton is not a rookie. And not only that, you closed out Milwaukee, you closed out Cleveland, you closed out New York, you closed out OKC in game one. You've done enough in your postseason career to be able to say, coach, not only do I not have it tonight because I'm not 100%, but look at what my man is doing.

[Brian Windhorst]

I'm not sure.

[Stephen A. Smith]

Good. Play him.

[Brian Windhorst]

I'm. I. I get it. It's interesting. I'm not sure they're beating Jalen Williams and Shay tonight.

[Stephen A. Smith]

I'm sorry.

[Brian Windhorst]

I'm not sure it would have mattered.

[Iman Shumpert]

Okay.

[Stephen A. Smith]

I'm not saying. Wait a minute, wait a minute. With all due respect, they're up 15. They cut that TJ comes in the game, they go on a roll, they pull within two. You can't say that, Wendy. They pull within two points. They pull within two points.

[Iman Shumpert]

And they turned it over at seven.

[Stephen A. Smith]

Or six minutes left. You had a chance.

[Brian Windhorst]

Definitely a chance.

[Iman Shumpert]

He had one turnover down the stretch. Who else had the other turn? Other two turnovers.

[Brian Windhorst]

Nemhard had a couple.

[Iman Shumpert]

Yeah, two back to back.

[Stephen A. Smith]

I think Math had one, but it's.

[Iman Shumpert]

Like, you take away those, it's a different ball game. They got some easy ones.

[Stephen A. Smith]

I'm just saying they might have lost the game because the way Jalen Williams was rolling and the way Shay can get rolling, we all know what they bring to the table. 71, 71 points, 62% shooting. What is it in game four? And then they come out here and what do they do? They shoot. They. What is it? 62%, 48% shooting, 62 points combined. This is what they did over the last two games, so we know they're rolling. Wiggins and Wallace coming off the bench, hitting some threes in the first half. All of those things were helpful. You get a 15 point lead, you got everything rolling. Halliburton is looking awful because he's healthy and still with about seven minutes left or so, you are within two.

[Iman Shumpert]

Unbelievable.

[Stephen A. Smith]

You cannot ignore that. You have to look at a guy like a TJ McConnell and say, because Hal Burton is hurt and he couldn't do anything, we gonna roll with this kid.

[Brian Windhorst]

Yeah. And it was exacerbated by the fact that Nemhart wasn't great and Matherin was terrible.

[Stephen A. Smith]

He. After 27 points. I. I think that Matheran. That's a mental thing. In game four. What does he do? He misses three or four field goals. He gets two off. You know, he gets two goal for two off fouls off of inbounds in the last. I mean, he calls it like a five, seven point turnaround in game four. I think he was feeling that. Came in here anxious to prove. I thought it would work to his advantage and he would be effective. But he was pushing. He was pressing too much, trying to make up for what happened to Game 4, and he didn't have it.

[Brian Windhorst]

Thank you for stopping by. Juvie and Sumatra, you're two most. You're two of the most important people in your life are waiting for you. So I don't want to hold you up.

[Stephen A. Smith]

No problem.

[Iman Shumpert]

All righty. All right, Joe.

[Brian Windhorst]

Thank you. We'll see you tomorrow.

[Iman Shumpert]

Touch the ring one time. There you go, bro.

[Brian Windhorst]

By the way, there was an amazing Moment before the game where you brought your ring.

[Iman Shumpert]

Oh, yeah.

[Brian Windhorst]

Because you didn't bring it earlier and you went home and you got it.

[Iman Shumpert]

Yeah, I went and grabbed it for y' all, man.

[Brian Windhorst]

And Channing Fry came over. Whenever there's a 2016 Cavalry, you're another 2016 Cav. It's always a special moment.

[Iman Shumpert]

Real talk.

[Brian Windhorst]

Channing Frye's on the NBA TV staff, and he came over before the game and you embraced him and he knocked your ring off onto the ground.

[Iman Shumpert]

So it's crazy. Cause we have these handshakes that we did with the 16s.

[Brian Windhorst]

And you still remember him.

[Iman Shumpert]

Well, we were getting ready. We were like in between doing it and not doing it and just went for embrace. Like you just hug. But we got a little over excited. But Channing's hands. Channing's hands are a lot larger than mine. And it's like he just wiped it off my. Just like took it all off, man.

[Brian Windhorst]

Listen, all these champions who are working with us here, you and UD and RJ and Danny Green, I love you guys bringing your rings around. I know it's probably not.

[Iman Shumpert]

People ask me why I got the pinky. See, I planned for the 2017 one to be right here.

[Brian Windhorst]

Yeah.

[Iman Shumpert]

And then KD happened.

[Brian Windhorst]

Tim Bontemps is joining us.

[Tim Bontemps]

I like the planning, though, Shop.

[Iman Shumpert]

Yeah, I planned it out, man.

[Brian Windhorst]

You were. You were just in the locker room area. Stephen A. Really thinks that either Halliburton or Rick Carlisle should have just left Halliburton.

[Tim Bontemps]

I heard a little bit of what Stephen A. Was saying when I came over before. I mean, look, it's hard to argue. I mean, the guy took one shot in the second half. Paces were dramatically better when TJ McConnell was on the court. The game turned in the third quarter. It was 20 to 0 in bench scoring in the third quarter, primarily because of TJ McConnell. And when you texted me in the third quarter, Brian said the Pacers took out Halliburton and put in a score. And it changed the game. And it just put a lot of pressure on the Thunder. And, you know, I mean, look, foul. Burton's hurt. That's fine. But if he's out there, then he's got to be able to produce. And he was pretty much invisible in this game. Took one shot in the second half over six in the field. The pace aren't winning games in this series. If Halberton's doing that.

[Brian Windhorst]

I was just. We've been talking through it on one hand. I said it's a gray area, but maybe really, it's not a gray area.

[Iman Shumpert]

Well, depends on how much they know about that calf.

[Brian Windhorst]

That's true. You're right.

[Iman Shumpert]

If it's that bad, they know something in that locker room. And they got to protect him a little bit, too, because you don't want him in the middle space that he feels like I got to pull out more and anything, as you guys know, calf hammy, that's tough.

[Tim Bontemps]

Yeah, it's just you can't.

[Brian Windhorst]

Well, Bob Myers.

[Iman Shumpert]

Yeah, you don't have breaks.

[Brian Windhorst]

Bob Myers said at halftime, he was like, this is tough, man. Now, I don't want to put words in Bob's mouth. I haven't talked to him yet, but obviously he played a guy or he didn't play him, but you know, the organization played a guy with the calf injury.

[Tim Bontemps]

Think about Game 5 in 2019 when Kevin Durant played and ended up tearing his Achilles. Like that's what you think about. And look at the end of the day though, this game, you know, I was in listening to Mark Dagnault, coach of the Thunder, got asked about Jalen Williams and the growth he's had over the course of the year. And early in the year, there were some times where Jalen Williams is struggling and there was some criticism of the way he was playing and whether he could be the guy they need him to be as a secondary scorer to Shay. I mean, we talked about a lot in the pod, as Brian knows this year, and Dagnaut said at the time he praised him for the aggressiveness he showed at the time and talked about the fact that it would pay off down the road. And you saw in this game, I mean, the Thunder won this game because of Shaggy Eliz Alexander and Jalen Williams carrying them home. Not to I mean, again, in the way Tyrese Halberton did not for the Pacers. Pascal Siakam was great.

[Brian Windhorst]

Yeah, he had a great.

[Tim Bontemps]

Two stars on. The Thunder were great.

[Brian Windhorst]

Halliburton Siakam had a terrible fourth quarter in Game four and he had a killer fourth quarter tonight.

[Iman Shumpert]

More Hoop Collective podcast after this.

[Stephen A. Smith]

The Hoover Dam wasn't built in a.

[Iman Shumpert]

Day and the GMC Sierra lineup wasn't built overnight.

[Stephen A. Smith]

Like every American achievement, building the Sierra 1500, heavy duty and EV was the result of dedication. A dedication to mastering the art of engineering. That's what this country has done for 250 years and what GMC has done for over 100.

[Iman Shumpert]

We are professional grade.

[Stephen A. Smith]

Visit GMC.com to learn more.

[Iman Shumpert]

Assembled in Flint, Hamtranc, Michigan and Fort Wayne, Indiana of US and globally sourced parts.

[Brian Windhorst]

Summer's here and Nordstrom has everything you.

[Iman Shumpert]

Need for your best dress season ever.

[Brian Windhorst]

From beach days and weddings to weekend.

[Iman Shumpert]

Getaways in your everyday wardrobe. Discover stylish options under $100 from tons of your favorite brands like Mango Skims.

[Brian Windhorst]

Princess Polly and Madewell.

[Iman Shumpert]

It's easy, too, with free shipping and free returns in store order pickup and more. Shop today in stores [e-mail] or download the Nordstrom app. I think you're on mute. Workday starting to sound the same. I think you're on mute.

[Brian Windhorst]

Find sounds better for your career on LinkedIn. With LinkedIn job collections, you can browse curated collections by relevant industries and benefits like Flexpto or hybrid workplaces so you can find the right job for you. Get [e-mail] jobs finding where you fit. LinkedIn knows how.

[Iman Shumpert]

To.

[Tim Bontemps]

No, I mean, look, I mean, he's the only reason they were in the game. He was great. And whenever he gets a mismatch in this series, he completely tears it apart. You know what that's like when you got a guy who take a mismatch like that inside totally is taking advantage of Shakel's Alexander or Casey Wallace or any of these smaller guards and they get on him in the post paces, do a great job of finding them, you know, but at the end of the day, it's a two point game with eight and a half minutes to go, and they just start. Yeah, and they just start getting turnovers and scoring buckets left and right.

[Brian Windhorst]

I'm not convinced, I'm not convinced that they're beating the Thunder on this night anyway.

[Tim Bontemps]

Well, look, I mean, look, it was a two point game and the Thunder miss a shot and get an offensive rebound. And then all of a sudden it goes from. Goes from 2 to 7 in about 25 seconds.

[Brian Windhorst]

All these guys with rings around here.

[Tim Bontemps]

So it was right there and, you know, the Thunder made sure it didn't go the other way. And now we'll see what happened.

[Brian Windhorst]

I don't think Jalen and SJ were letting him lose.

[Tim Bontemps]

What'd you say?

[Brian Windhorst]

I don't think they were letting him lose.

[Iman Shumpert]

They were letting him lose.

[Tim Bontemps]

Oh, I mean, he was on the night.

[Brian Windhorst]

I talked my way through this and I. And I get what Stephen A. Said. I'm listening to what Sean said. I'm listening to what you're saying, and I think I'm living.

[Tim Bontemps]

Both things can be true.

[Iman Shumpert]

I just don't want anybody to forget about Chet, okay? Chet shot the ball bad as Far.

[Brian Windhorst]

As shot the ball bad all series, but.

[Iman Shumpert]

Yeah, but I mean, the little chippies is the ones that I want him to make around the rim.

[Tim Bontemps]

Yep.

[Iman Shumpert]

But his effort tonight was contagious. His ability to switch on the guards over and over and over and get stops. He altered shots at his height.

[Tim Bontemps]

Yeah, they did an unbelievable job. Chump at the rim all game. All those guys. Shea had four blocks, Chet had three.

[Iman Shumpert]

And sometimes they didn't get the block, they just got a guy to. And then throw it to make a bad shot go up. And I just. I want to acknowledge him because he's shown so much growth through this series. Like his 11 rebounds, him using only three fouls, like, it's not going to get talked about, but it's so important. Like the three block shots, the ability to do that, get your second attempt and then say, you know what? I don't have it. Let me kick it out and give Jalen and Shay another chance to go at it. It's not going to get talked about a lot because you got 40 points and 31 points with Shai responsible for another 10 assist. So that's another 20 to 25 points. Man. Chet Holmgren, I know he didn't shoot it well all series, but his growth is showing more and more because you starting to see the. I see it all the time with this. When they do the flexing Jalen Williams over and over. You've seen it. It's happening more and more.

[Tim Bontemps]

And you. It's funny you talk about that, because after game one, when chat was awful in that game, when they let it go at the end, he sat right over there on this court in media day a couple days later, and he said, I have to make sure that I focus on doing everything but scoring.

[Iman Shumpert]

Yep.

[Tim Bontemps]

And if I'm not making shots, I can't let it get in my head at all. And if I do that, those other things, the scoring will come. And that in the games since then, in the series, for the most part, that's exactly what he's done. And look, like you said, it's 4 for 15 today. He's missing a lot of shots at the rim. He's struggling a lot, but what does he do? He's sprinting back, he's getting in the play, he's getting rebounds, he's blocking shots. He did all the other stuff. And the other stuff is why they won this game. When it got tight at the end and this crowd was panicking, they were in a lot of trouble. And I mean, Shay and Jalen hit shots, but they also got run out, dunk steal, transition bucket. Because they started doing the Thunder defensive stuff and the Pacers couldn't handle it.

[Brian Windhorst]

Also, major bounce back. The Pacer bench actually outscored the Thunder bench, which is the first time the losing team had the bench going. Mostly because of McConnell. But major, major bounce back games for Aaron Wig and Case and Casey Wallace, especially Case.

[Tim Bontemps]

And Wallace was over eight from three in the series before this game. Two big threes in the first quarter immediately comes in, hit some shots. You could see it, get some confidence back in him. And I mean, obviously he started the first couple games this series a hugely important player for the Thunder. And again the Thunder got into their whole thing of, you know, Caruso blowing up plays, Cason, Wallace blowing up plays, Wiggins making shots like it turned into the full team effort we see from them when they're good.

[Brian Windhorst]

Wiggins, Wiggins and Caruso. I'm sorry, Wallace and Caruso had eight steals between them.

[Tim Bontemps]

Yep.

[Brian Windhorst]

Wiggins and Wallace had seven threes between.

[Tim Bontemps]

They were seven for 11 for three between the two of them. The Thunder were three for 17 in game four total.

[Brian Windhorst]

That's what's supposed to happen, right? The role players at home, that's what you're supposed to do.

[Iman Shumpert]

Without a doubt. Without a doubt. You want them to be inclusive, but you never want them to force. And the thing that's so great about okc, Caruso, Wiggins, Wallace, all manufacture points off of just energy on defense. They make it to where your floor is unbalanced. When they take off on a breakaway, somebody makes a mistake, they're always shooting an inside out three, a layup at the rim. They're attacking a closeout. It's an efficiency game with them plus.

[Tim Bontemps]

25, plus 23, I should say, in points off turnovers. 23 turnovers for 32 points. That is the formula to your point. Steals off the bench, that's what they all season.

[Brian Windhorst]

The two stats are just unbelievable for a finals game. 32 to 9 and points off turnovers is just unheard of. And then I said, I said this, I said this earlier. 15 steals, 12 blocks, 27 stocks.

[Tim Bontemps]

I mean, just defensive playmakers all over the place.

[Brian Windhorst]

God.

[Tim Bontemps]

And that's the thing like that was. It was fitting the way the game ended because the Thunder did what the formula that led them to win 68 games, have a record setting point differential got him within now 48 minutes of the first championship in the franchise's history. Right. It's Shagiz, Alexander and Jalen Williams scoring points left and right. And it's all these other dudes, plus them making plays all over the place on defense and turning the other team into a mess with the ball like that. That is the formula at both ends that has them on the verge of a title and they got it done in the fourth quarter.

[Brian Windhorst]

With that tonight, we got to wrap this up. But I think in the next 48 hours, Tyrese's leg will be a huge story. I don't know if we're going to get information on it, but.

[Tim Bontemps]

Well, look, here's what I'll say.

[Iman Shumpert]

He.

[Tim Bontemps]

If he's going to go over six or if he's just going to take even six shots in Game 6, the series is over. Like Tyrese Halberton can't be aggressive and can't be aggressive scoring, which we've talked about the whole series. When they. When he's scoring 20 points, they're a totally different team. I don't see how they're winning a game in this series. Like the Thunder have led 141 of the 144 minutes here in Oklahoma City and it's been basically a toss up in Indiana and that's with Halliburton playing well. So he's got to have a really big game if they want a chance.

[Iman Shumpert]

Against I think they could do it with the Indiana crowd. I low key think we're going to see a game seven. I don't know how they going to manufacture. I just know they got to 100 and Matheran have to step up.

[Brian Windhorst]

Their key is 111. That's their and they got to have 111. Wouldn't have got it done tonight if they got one more basket.

[Iman Shumpert]

Love that guy. So that guy.

[Tim Bontemps]

But if they every playoff jump, Brian has a stat that it's one of the other and he says it every game. It's a different stat every year. But he's got a stat.

[Brian Windhorst]

Sorry. That's a stat continuing to be correct. All right. Thank you to Bon Temps. Thank you to Shump. Thank you to our special guest, Stephen A. Smith. Thank you for Perk, for walking by. Thank you to Jackson and Rafa and Blair.

[Iman Shumpert]

Hopefully we got Shay go by mvp go by. That's awesome.

[Tim Bontemps]

Walked by.

[Iman Shumpert]

Yeah.

[Tim Bontemps]

I don't know if he got in the shot but went by.

[Iman Shumpert]

Hopefully he got in the shot, man. But you know it's just another day on the court in the final. That's all. Just another day.

[Tim Bontemps]

Screw the silk all the time. Sga.

[Iman Shumpert]

Just talking ball. That's all.

[Brian Windhorst]

All right. We'll be talking to you later this week on New Collective.

[Tim Bontemps]

What's up, everybody?

[Brian Windhorst]

It's former Heisman Trophy winner Matt Leiner and former Entourage star Jerry Ferrara on the latest edition of Throwing Throwbacks. We wonder which sport you have to be in the best shape to play. And we answer an all time youth sports question in today's Mailbag. Plus, we're playing guest at college with.

[Tim Bontemps]

A couple of the guys from Good, Good Golf.

[Brian Windhorst]

So check out new episodes of Throwbacks every Thursday. You could watch on YouTube or listen on Apple, Spotify or wherever you get your podcasts.

[Tim Bontemps]

And make sure you follow us on.

[Brian Windhorst]

All social media platforms at Throwback Show.