Podcast Summary: Brian Windhorst & The Hoop Collective

Episode: NBA To Fix Tanking? Celtics Most Intriguing Team in NBA? + Draymond Drama Continues
Date: December 24, 2025
Host: Brian Windhorst, with Tim Bontemps (“Bontemps”), Tim MacMahon (“McMahon”), and Wendy Lloyd
Format: Roundtable NBA discussion

Episode Overview

This episode dives deep into three central topics:

1. The NBA’s ongoing struggle and potential solutions to team tanking.
2. The Boston Celtics' surprising trajectory, the health of Jayson Tatum, and their status as arguably the league’s most intriguing team.
3. Continued drama surrounding Draymond Green and the Golden State Warriors' future.

The hosts maintain their direct, slightly irreverent style, mixing NBA analysis with front-office insight and a few well-timed jokes.

1. NBA Tanking: Rule Changes on the Table

Background & Setting

• (01:20) The recent report by Shams Charania that NBA owners are considering new anti-tanking measures triggers the discussion.
• (02:25, Windhorst): “Before you suggest... any sort of anti-tanking stuff, you got to realize you’ve got to pass it through 23 owners... If you’re not going to get pretty much the entire league to say yes to, you’re wasting your time, energy, and lawyers.”

Why Tanking Is Topical Again

• Lottery Pick Protections: Teams tying themselves in knots over top-four or top-eight protections, which incentivize losing strategically (e.g., 76ers, Mavericks, Jazz).
• Recent Examples: Jazz and their top-8 protected pick; Mavericks sitting stars to keep a protected pick.
• Effect on NBA Product: “March and April.... is a bad product because so many teams are trying to tank.” (Ban McMahon, 05:12)

Anti-Tanking Proposals Discussed

1. Limiting Pick Protections to Top-4 or 14 and Higher

• Goal: Eliminate egregious mid-to-late lottery tanking.
• Windhorst (08:03): “Of these provisions, this is the one I actually think could pass...”
• Bontemps: Neutral—sees some merit but also highlights that teams being smart on the margins is positive.

2. No Top-4 Picks Two Years in a Row

• Windhorst (09:25): “I think this is DOA in the cradle.”
• McMahon (09:42): “I know one team that’ll vote for it... the Spurs.”
• Lloyd (09:53): “Yeah, I don't think that one is happening.”

3. Lock Lottery Odds as of March 1

• McMahon (18:49): “Don’t do a half measure... Incentivize winning after [March 1]... if you lock the lottery odds in, teams just mail it in.”
• Alternatives like making losses equal wins at season’s end or “lottery repeater tax” discussed—acknowledged as radical/likely unpassable.

Side Points & Counterarguments

• (14:31, McMahon): Suggests banning consecutive top-4 odds; flattening lottery odds has upped variance.
• (20:07, Lloyd): Acknowledges lottery randomness: teams like the Wizards stuck in the middle despite repeated high picks.
• (23:34, Lloyd): “There has to be some path for bad teams to get good. ... There has to be a mechanism for a bad team to improve.”

Notable Quotes

• Windhorst (02:25): "It’s not so much the quality of the idea, it’s ... ability to actually get it implemented."
• Lloyd (15:17): “The last five or six years since [lottery odds flattening]... all kinds of teams jumping up from the mid to late lottery into the top three or four...”
• McMahon (14:31): "Tanking ... is the NBA’s biggest problem."

2. The Boston Celtics: Intrigue, Injuries & The Tatum Question

Current Standings & Recent Performance

• (24:13) Celtics on a 3-game win streak, 18-11, third place in East.
• Jaylen Brown has scored 30+ in seven consecutive games (“He’s answered that bell tremendously,” Windhorst, 25:54).
• Organization praised for player development and depth: Hugo Gonzalez (28th pick), rotation value from bench, savvy front office moves.

Jayson Tatum Injury Update

• Still not ruled out for the season (unlike Halliburton, Lillard).
• Lloyd (35:00): “Every time Brad Stevens ... talked about it, they've said everything but ‘Jason Tatum is not playing.’ They’re leaving the door open.”

Celtics' Outlook

• (29:13, Windhorst): “The table is still all there for them.”
• Lloyd (31:24): “The Celtics ... are really going to be a team nobody’s going to want to play in the playoffs because they have championship experience. They've got a mad scientist coach ... and has a giant chip on his shoulder in a good way.”

Anthony Simons Situation

• Large expiring contract—will Boston trade, keep, or use to add depth at the deadline?
• Lloyd (32:49): “I don’t think Anthony Simons is going to have a very big role in the playoffs either way. ... That’s the thing I’ll be curious to see if they do.”
• Decision likely hinges on Tatum’s health and February 1st playoff outlook.

Notable Quotes

• Windhorst (23:34): “Most teams ... have been in a situation where they've faced a rebuild ... and those teams will remember where they were.”
• Lloyd (31:24): “They should try to be as good as they can be all the time and see where it gets them.”

3. Trade Deadline, Playoff Outlooks & Pistons’ Approach

Pistons’ Unexpected Surge

• (36:41, McMahon): “If the Pistons want to be aggressive before the deadline, they have the ammunition.... They’re going into it with an opportunistic mindset.”
• Approach likened to the Thunder: focus on the long run, let young core grow, but acknowledge possibility of strategic additions.

The Young Core Debate

• With recent playoff drought, internal and external pressure could push the Pistons to act at the deadline if they're still top the conference.
• Lloyd (38:04): “If they're sitting in first place ... are they really going to sit there and say, 'We won't add anything'?”

Bottom Line

• Teams’ February self-evaluations are pivotal: “The most important evaluation they can make is their own team’s chances.” (Windhorst, 37:25)

4. Pelicans, Rookies & Zion as Sixth Man

Pelicans’ Winning Streak

• Five consecutive wins; James Borrego’s adjustments cited.
• (43:49, McMahon): “Zion, the sixth man, is an interesting thing.... It’s a way to get him to impact games ... while also managing his minutes.”

Roster Updates

• Rookies Jeremiah Fears and Derrick Queen impressing.
• Dejounte Murray nearing return—uncertainty about fit and playing time with an already crowded backcourt.

5. NBA Christmas Games Preview & Brief League Notes

• Spurs-Thunder highlighted as the NBA needs more young rivalries (Victor Wembanyama vs Chet Holmgren).
• Rockets-Lakers called out for legacy value: possibly one of LeBron’s last Christmas games versus Durant.
• Nuggets-Wolves flagged as a great late matchup; “I’m going to watch Jokic on Christmas, long story short.” (Brian Windhorst, 53:07)

6. Draymond Green & Warriors Drama

The Latest Episode

• Draymond left the bench during a timeout after an altercation with Steve Kerr.
• Windhorst (55:02): “...the entire post game is dominated by another Steve Kerr Draymond Green thing that's, you know, going on year and year and year.”

Draymond’s On-Court Struggles

• Lloyd (55:45): "Draymond Green has 72 made field goals this season, 75 turnovers and 80 personal fouls...the only player...who has more fouls and turnovers than points."
• Panel questions if “the juice is still worth the squeeze,” especially given his decline.

Warriors’ Dilemma

• Franchise loyalty vs. declining production.
• McMahon (57:29): “They made the decision a long time ago that the production is worth all the pain in the ass stuff. Now ... that ratio has been thrown out of whack.”

Memorable Moments & Quotes

• Windhorst (02:25): “You got to realize you’ve got to pass it through 23 owners ... you're wasting your time, energy, and lawyers [otherwise].”
• Lloyd (55:45): “Is the juice worth the squeeze anymore? ... I think it's starting to get to an interesting place because Draymond Green has just not been very good this season.”
• McMahon (14:31): “I think ... the tanking epidemic ... is the NBA’s biggest problem.”
• Lloyd (23:34): “There has to be a mechanism for a bad team to improve.”

Timestamps for Key Segments

| Time | Segment/Topic | |-----------|-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------| | 01:20 | Introduction to tanking issue and Shams' report | | 02:25 | Windhorst explains the difficulty of passing NBA rule changes | | 04:43 | Examples of historic and recent tanking | | 05:33 | Why tanking hurts NBA's late-season product | | 08:03 | Discussion of lottery pick protections | | 09:25 | "No top-4 pick two years in a row" proposal shot down | | 14:31 | McMahon calls tanking "NBA’s biggest problem" | | 20:07 | Randomness in the lottery and rebuilding struggles | | 23:34 | Why radical changes are unlikely; reality of NBA's 'socialism' | | 24:13 | Celtics’ success, Jaylen Brown's breakout | | 35:00 | Jayson Tatum injury update | | 36:41 | Pistons’ surge and possible trade deadline strategy | | 43:49 | Pelicans five-game win streak, Zion to the bench | | 47:17 | Christmas games preview: Spurs-Thunder, Rockets-Lakers, Nuggets-Wolves etc | | 54:22 | Draymond Green's latest drama with Warriors | | 55:45 | Lloyd’s stat on Draymond: more fouls and turnovers than made field goals | | 57:29 | Should the Warriors finally move on from Draymond? |

Final Thoughts

• NBA rule changes, especially targeting tanking, face immense implementation barriers due to structural league realities.
• The Celtics are positioned as one of the most compelling teams, especially if Jayson Tatum returns.
• Internal culture, player development, and adaptability determine team longevity as much as high draft picks.
• The ongoing Draymond Green-Warriors saga illustrates the complexity of balancing culture, output, and loyalty as a team ages out of its glory years.

This episode delivers a blend of macro-NBA structure analysis, team deep-dives, and up-to-the-minute drama—all in the candid, fast-paced style that defines The Hoop Collective.