← Brian Windhorst & The Hoop Collective
Brian Windhorst & The Hoop Collective
Never Overreact To Game 1: Wolves Shock Spurs + Knicks, Pistons, Thunder Handle Business
01:10:35
Hoop Collective: Never Overreact To Game 1: Wolves Shock Spurs + Knicks, Pistons, Thunder Handle Business
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- [00:00]
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- [00:41]
Wendy
Hello, welcome to the Hoop Collective podcast. We talk about the NBA, which we are doing in stages in this particular episode because we've got all kinds of different people spread out all over the country with games overlapping each other multiple times, and we're all adapting to the changing situations of how these playoffs are being presented. But as we talk to you at this exact moment, the Cleveland Cavaliers just got beat by the Detroit Pistons in game one of that playoff series. Joining us from New York to talk about it are two gentlemen who know a little bit about the Eastern Conference. First up, Tim Von Temps.
- [01:16]
Tim Bontemps
Hello everybody. I'm just glad we got the IQ of the pod raised and we got somebody to come here and lay the smackdown on Calves corner from my favorite guy from Detroit. So much, much improved from the normal people around.
- [01:29]
Wendy
Are you talking about yourself?
- [01:31]
Tim Bontemps
No, talking about our awesome guest joining
- [01:35]
Wendy
me who is also covering the series in New York right now between the Knicks and pistons. Knicks and 76ers. But a longtime Detroit resident who knows a lot about the Pistons is Vince Goodwill.
- [01:47]
Vince Goodwill
I. I'll give you the Detroit greeting, Wendy. What up though?
- [01:50]
Wendy
Yeah, I wanted to say the Pistons were slight favorites coming into this series. Honestly, I mean, like, I was like, sure. I mean, I had no idea who really should be favored in this series. Detroit obviously ended the last series on a pretty strong heater led by Cade Cunningham, and the Cavs sort of limped into into this round. However, that's kind of how it played out. The Pistons were the vastly better team in the first half of game one. The Cavs were the better team in the second half of game one. Until the and what we ended up having, Vince was with, I believe, five minutes to go, the game was tied. And this to get to that tie score, a lot of things went down. There was a lot of slop on both ends. Some, some good play on both ends. The Pistons threw In a couple of 30 footers at the buzzer of the first and third quarter. You know, typical playoff game where you, you know, there was just a lot of stuff that happened, but bottom line, this was a tie game with five minutes to go. And then we saw Cade Cunningham and Jalen Duran go to work, and that's what defined the game. And, and frankly, that's appropriate, Vince, because that's what defined this Piston season. Those two guys.
- [03:07]
Vince Goodwill
Yeah, I think you look at Jalen Duran and you can say that his postseason has been underwhelming to this point, especially for a guy who's up for restricted free agency and to ask for a lot of money. This is the place where you earn it. And I thought he was pretty quiet for the most part of this game until that five minute mark. He had three dunks, all on passes from Cade. A big contest on James Harden that. That could have gave the Cavs the lead. And then another rebound over Evan Mobley. I think that matchup is going to determine this series. I still have stock in Evan Mobley. I still call him Slim Duncan, just dating back to when he was coming out of usc. I think he's that gifted. I just, I don't think he realizes that he's that gifted. But game ones after game, sevens are so sluggish. Like, those two teams look like they were emotionally worn out from having played 48 hours ago. I think me and Tim saw with Philadelphia last night. It's really hard to rev it back up for game one to start the series. You're still wearing Orlando's cologne. Cleveland's still wearing Toronto's cologne. I can't imagine how good that smells, actually. But neither team, I don't think, would have better cologne.
- [04:17]
Wendy
Toronto or Orlando. That's.
- [04:19]
Vince Goodwill
That's a great. That's a great question. I'm going to stay the hell away from that one because I don't want to insult anybody. But Wendy, I'm sure you being a member of Cavs corner, honorary member or charter member, I should say, I don't think the Cavs come out of this feeling.
- [04:36]
Tim Bontemps
He's the founding member, bro. Founding member.
- [04:38]
Vince Goodwill
Founding. There we go. I don't think the Cavs come out of this feeling, you know, discouraged. Like they played. They didn't play well as long as they got up, got up shots. I felt like they ran good offense. Like the turnovers, a lot of them were self inflicted. They were able to, you know, not have Detroit run away from them. They just couldn't make plays, you know, down the stretch of the game. Like if Donovan Mitchell has his usual game ones, then maybe this is different. But I don't think they can have 98 points, Wendy, with a minute left and be able to win games in this series.
- [05:09]
Wendy
Yeah, Bontemps. I would say that James Harden, if I had to give him a grade in this game, would be D plus. Although he was. He had a good stretch in the fourth quarter. I would give Donovan Mitchell a C. Maybe being a little charitable, I would give Evan Mobley a B minus. And I would give Jarrett Allen an incomplete because he was in foul Trouble, played only 18 minutes because of it. When he did play, he was not bad, but he had only had three, three rebounds and two points after this huge performance in Game 7 against Toronto. And so I guess considering all that, that it was a tie game with five minutes to go, like, I guess the Cavs can build off that. But, you know, I think if you're, you know, Detroit couldn't make a three pointer for the bulk of the Orlando series, and Orlando just quit defending them on the three out there. And Orlando, Detroit hit a bunch of threes in game seven. They carried that over to this. Duncan Robinson had five threes. I mean, I can create a narrative that the Cavs shouldn't feel that bad about it, but still, it was, it was. You go into, you know, game one of a series and you give your. All your key players play, you know, average or below average basketball. That's my assessment from Cavs corner.
- [06:33]
Tim Bontemps
Yeah, I mean, look, I would say coming into this series, the Cavs did not exactly impress us with the way they played against Toronto. And I think that largely carried over to this game. And the thing that we thought would happen in the series is that Detroit would have a lot more room to impose its physicality on the Cavs in a way they could not on Orlando, because those two teams are sort of mirror images of each other in terms of how they play, right? And Jalen Duran, who was not very good in that first round series, and I expected to be much better in this series, had the defining stretch of the game with Cade Cunningham running the pick and roll that those guys have really refined over the past few years playing together. And look, you could say Evan Mobley was fine in the game. Evan Mobley was -18 in 35 minutes and Jalen Duran was -17 and 35 minutes. And in the closing minutes of the game, it was Jalen Duran making every single play and Evan Mobley making none. And that's why the Cavs Lost. And this was a game where the Cavs had a chance to steal, a game where they didn't play very well on the road. And if they. I was thinking when James Harden hit those free throws, it's out of the game that this setting up to be just a catastrophic loss for Detroit. They get off to this great start. They're rolling out.
- [07:51]
Wendy
Yeah, they're up by 11 with nine minutes to go. They had daily control of the game.
- [07:54]
Tim Bontemps
They give up an 110 run. You got the veteran Cavs been there before playoff experience. You know, for all the, all of James Harden's bad games in the playoffs, he's got a billion games. He had a good, he had a good stretch in the fourth quarter thinking, man, if Cleveland can steal this game where they did not play very well against Detroit and get a win to start the series on the road, that's going to be just a gigantic advantage of what I think is going to be a pretty long series. And instead Cade Cunningham comes down, drop off past Jalen Durant. Done. Jalen Duran blocks James Harden, Florida at the other end, come down Kate Cunningham, dump off to Jalen Duran for a dunk timeout, come back down again, get another Jalen Duran bucket. Like that was the game right there. Like, yeah, they went back and forth after that, but that stretch right there decided the game. And you know, Jalen Duran, it's going to be very interesting to see what he ultimately gets in free agency this summer. I think we've seen, I think we saw in that Magic series and I think even tonight, I mean, he's 4 for 11. He has 11 points and 12 rebounds. Like give Jalen Duran a max or something close to it. I think it's really going to limit what Detroit ceiling long term can be. But in this series with his physicality, he can really dominate inside. And Jared Allen immediately getting in foul trouble and being a non factor and Evan Mobley not being able to handle that down the stretch, like that's what decided this game. And if Detroit wins this series, which I do think is a big if, like Vinnie said, I think if you're the Cavs, you could say you played like crap and almost won the game. Like, they come back and win game two, they'll feel good. But that battle of styles like we talked about coming into the series, and that battle in terms of can Detroit impose their physicality and can Cleveland handle it? To me down the stretch of the game, that was what won the game for the Pistons. And it's what the Cavs are going to have to overcome if they're going to win four the next six games.
- [09:40]
Wendy
Yeah. And look, one of the things that has just been a factor for the Cavs throughout this whole year, Kenny Atkinson has not been able to establish any sort of rhythm about how the Cavs are going to play. Now, obviously when you are in a playoff setting, you are doing some level of triage because you are trying to manage the game and manage lineups and manage matchups, especially early in a series. But you know, Kenny Atkinson used 41 different lineups in 82 regular season games, largely because of injuries, but also because the team changed, but also because he couldn't find a formula that reliably worked. Here he was in game one of the second round of the playoffs. He used 11 guys by about the seven minute mark of the second quarter. Now one factor in this series now going forward, Sam Merrill hurt his hamstring in the first half of this game. Didn't come back a key three point shooter for the Cavs. The Cavs were probably the healthiest team after being one of the most banged up teams. Maybe Detroit is healthier now, but the Cavs had a totally clean injury report going into this game, going into the playoffs, and they have in every game. So now, like they may have an injury, but really what I'm getting to is that Kenny is sort of trying. He sort of goes game to game trying to figure out the best way to play. You know, for example, he used Keone Ellis for a big stretch in this game. He didn't play Keone Ellis the last three games in the last series. What I'm getting to is this. With five minutes left, JB Bickerstaff calls timeout. It's a tie game. The Cavs are on an 110 run. Kenny Atkinson elects to put Evan Mobley and Donovan Mitchell. Obviously you're putting Donovan Mitchell in the game, but he puts Mobley in the game and Mitchell in the game. He takes out Jared Allen and Jaylon Tyson. Allen and Tyson had the two best plus minuses on the Cavs. And instantaneously we see Duran completely go to work whenever. When Mobley's on the court versus Allen. Now Evan Mobley's defensive player of the year. I mean, I'm not arguing that you don't put him in. I'm just saying he makes a substitution and the whole flow of the game completely changes. And I think it's. I don't think it's like he doesn't know what he's doing. I just don't think he has a good feel for how necessarily to play. The irony, of course, is that last year when they had 62 wins, they had a beautiful feel of how to play. You could almost guarantee how they were going to play every single night. It led them to be dominant number one overall seed. And that feel led them right into the second round where they got down 2:0 and were unable to recover. So just because you have a nice script doesn't mean it always goes to that plan. But, you know, he was definitely scrambling to try to figure out how to align his team to play in this series and that, you know, he, at the end of the day, he. The alignment of the grouping that he had out there at the end got trucked by Duran and Cunningham. And, you know, it was obviously winning time and Cade was great in winning time the last three games and he did it again.
- [12:40]
Vince Goodwill
Well, the crazy thing to me, Wendy, is I understand why he brought Mobley back in because Mobley had been hitting the outside shot and dragging Duran out there. And Duran doesn't look particularly comfortable. Like he's behaving as if Wendell Carter's out there from three point land. He's not even so much as getting like a real contest out there. So I'm sure Kenny probably thought, let me give Donovan as much space as possible, especially with Strust hitting the three point shots that he was hitting. I totally understood it. You're playing a game.
- [13:10]
Wendy
Max Struz played maybe the best game for the Cavs. Yeah, sorry.
- [13:12]
Vince Goodwill
So I understood the thought of wanted to create more space. And if Duran hadn't been truly effective to that point, he probably wasn't thinking that Duran was going to wake up. Unfortunately, he rode snake eyes and he did. The other thing is Cleveland, and you said this a little bit. Like I said, I jokingly said on get up the other day when someone asked who was guarding Cade Cunning, I said nobody. But it was literally just in jest, like a timing thing. And you were like, yeah, the Cavs have defended him as well as any other team, and they have. And it looked like tonight they defended him pretty well. Now, some of that could be game seven hangover, you know, regression to the mean and all that. But I wonder if they missed an opportunity to some degree because I think a player like Cade Cunningham winds up figuring it out like he's not going to shoot. I don't know if it was like 6 of 19 or something.
- [14:00]
Tim Bontemps
6 for 19.
- [14:01]
Wendy
What would you grade him tonight? I gave the Cavs the grades a grade what would you grade him? I mean, you know, in the. In the last five minutes, he gets A from me, but what would you grade him in the game?
- [14:09]
Vince Goodwill
I'll probably give him about a B minus because I felt like they were. There were plays like the one play where he dove and every time he dives on the floor, you're like, dude, what the hell are you doing? You have on the Cam Newton flak jacket, but you still have a punctured lung you're recovering from. I thought he played solid. I thought he played solid. I won't say solid defense. I thought he played really good defense, especially on James Harden forcing that backcourt violation like him and Asar Thompson. Well, let me just say this. Asar Thompson is a different sort of animal on defense. He's just a different. A different world. But for K to grind the game out, he didn't turn the ball over a lot. Finding Duran. I would say the last five minutes he gets an A. I would say overall, you give him a B just because shooting isn't always going to be the determining factor. I wonder if you're Detroit and you are counting on bullying this team. They got nothing from Isaiah Stewart tonight and they've got nothing from him for the past four games. I think he had eight block shots in against Orlando on game three or four, and he hasn't been right since. And I wonder if he's hurt. Like, he doesn't look as explosive. He doesn't look as sure. And you need more than just Jalen Duran in this particular series if you're going to be beating up on Jared Allen and Evan Mobley. Duran ain't going to be the guy doing it by himself. So I think that's something to watch for us.
- [15:23]
Wendy
Well, let me tell you something to watch for the Cavs. Here were Donovan Mitchell's last five games of that series with Toronto. Seven of 16. Okay. One of seven from three. No free throws. Six of 24. Four of 12 from three. Four free throws. Seven of 17, three of five from three. That was the best game. Two free throws. 11 of 26, two of 10 from three. Zero free throws. Nine of 20. Two of nine from three. Two free throws. That was deemed a. I guess, good. It was a game 7 performance. 9 of 20. Still no free throws. No, the free throws and three pointers. Not what you're looking for from a guy like Donovan Mitchell in this game. 9 of 19, 4 of 10. Not awful. Like I said, C. Ish. C plus two free throws. He's got 18 free throws in eight games, he is not generating the efficiency on offense that has made him. He was first team all NBA last year and he will be second team, I believe this year. His offensive efficiency and I mean, look, you're not expecting peak offensive efficiency in the playoffs, but the Cavs haven't gotten super strong performances from Donovan Mitchell over the last couple of weeks. And you know, they are layered up so that they don't. It's not him or nothing, but they're going to need more efficiency, a more efficient version of Donovan Mitchell if they're going to win, you know, four of the next six. And you know, I'm not like saying he's been awful, but he hasn't been great.
- [16:59]
Tim Bontemps
He hasn't been good enough. I mean, that's for them to get where they want to go. He has not been good enough. And the Pistons have Asar Thompson, who's one of the best guys in the league, put on Donovan Mitchell as far as isn't great on bigger guys, but on a guy like Donovan Mitchell, that's who he's built to guard. So you know, to me he should be on him every second he's on the court, which is I think basically what they're doing and trying to just wear him out over the seven games. I mean, he looked worn out by the end of the Toronto series. And like Vinnie said, you're rolling right into this one. It's every other day for days and days and days and the Cavs aren't an old team, but the Pistons are a younger team than them and I think generally are going to be a fresher team than them as the series goes. If everything is equal and you mentioned the Sam Merrill injury, I think there's a real chance we don't see him again the rest of series. When you see a guy leave a game with a hamstring injury and he can't come back, that's not a two day injury. Typically that's a week or two, which is a series. And Sam Merrill might not be a guy that, you know, the average fan immediately thinks a lot about, but he's a solid defender, he's an excellent shooter, he's a really good weapon off the bench. And you know, he and Max Druce, you saw Max, Vinnie said earlier, I mean Max Druce almost won this game for the Cavs. Way he was shooting the ball. Those guys come in and hit six or eight threes in a game and just steal a game by themselves. If he's not available. That's a, that's a significant blow to the Cavs and does really limit some of what Kenny Atkinson can do.
- [18:25]
Wendy
Yeah, we'll see. It wouldn't surprise me. I don't know anything as we're recording this, but it wouldn't surprise me if he, he sees an MRI machine tomorrow. Is. Is my guess.
- [18:33]
Tim Bontemps
Anytime you leave a, anytime you leave a game with a muscle injury like that, it's just, it's not good. We've seen it with these calf injuries. Like it, it's, it's hard to come back from that in a short term thing. Hopefully he can and I'm wrong, but it's not, it's not great.
- [18:47]
Vince Goodwill
I, I'll say this for Donovan. This is where you look at him and you realize although he plays bigger than his frame, he's six one and three quarters and muscular and explosive and everything else. But this is where the season playing every other day in the playoffs starts to take its toll. And then you get an annoying pest on you like a Sar Thompson who is longer than you, maybe got 6 inches or 7 inches on you in height already. Like that's just not a great matchup. I tend to think. Cause Donovan had one of his better games against Detroit early on in the season where literally he had a sergeant Thompson like in a pretzel, like which way did he go? I tend to believe that a guy like Don will find it like he's had one of his better shooting seasons this year. I wonder if this is just general fatigue where nobody. We say it all the time, but I don't think we really nailed it home. The fans like these guys are not fresh right now. You're supposed to play through that type of stuff, but when you're 611 1/4, the margins are even thinner. Especially if James Harden is going to be turning the ball over like he did more than a few times tonight.
- [19:58]
Tim Bontemps
And he's going to be doing that because James Harden is not going to play well in playoffs on a consistent basis. He'll have a couple games where he's good and he had a good stretch in the fourth quarter and nearly stolen the game. But when Horst was texting me during the game and let's just say the grade was even lower during the earlier portion of the game. Didn't have the fourth quarter that he had, so. And look, James Harden is going to have some other duds in the series too.
- [20:22]
Wendy
Listen, man, let's put it this way. James Harden is a future hall of Famer and Kenny Atkinson has immense trust in him and his Trust was rewarded because Harden just pieced together this fourth quarter run that got the Cavs back in it. But if he was not. If he did not have that kind of equity, like, 95% of other players in the league would have been yanked from the game multiple times. That's how poor James Harden was for stretches this game.
- [20:49]
Tim Bontemps
And it's not like that's a new thing to be saying, right? I mean, that's why I ultimately picked Detroit to win the series, because I just think Sar Thompson is going to wear down Donovan Mitchell over the course of a series, which we've seen happen before, and that's going to leave James Harden to have to make plays. And if it's Cade Cunningham versus James Harden, I'm taking Cade Cunningham to win that battle. And James got him to the precipice when they got it tied up. And I really was like. It was kind of like watching game seven of the Sixers series where I thought if Boston hit any of those shots and got ahead, like, all right, these guys might just roll downhill and get there. But because Kate immediately came back and hit those two buckets for Dern and got him a little bit of separation, they just never fell behind and stayed ahead and got a big win. I mean, as you know, Vinnie, the last. The last time they were ahead in a series, I believe, was maybe 2008, right? Like, no, no, no.
- [21:42]
Vince Goodwill
They. They played Orlando in the second round in 2008.
- [21:46]
Tim Bontemps
That's when they won game one. Last.
- [21:48]
Vince Goodwill
Yeah, yeah, that's probably.
- [21:50]
Tim Bontemps
I mean, that you're talking almost 20 years since they won Game 1 of a playoff series. So that's amazing. To win. To win game one against this Cavs team. Like, that was a massive win for Detroit, particularly with how that fourth quarter went. If it had just been a comfortable win, like, all right, everybody kind of feels it out. Detroit wins a home game, Cavs don't play well, that's fine. But then the way the Cavs got it right there looked like they could steal it. I thought that was really important for the Pistons to close that game out and for a young team, especially, coming off obviously a rocky first round series that they won to establish home court and do so with some big plays late to outplay the Cavs and win the game.
- [22:31]
Vince Goodwill
Especially in the game where you're not facing elimination, where. You know what I mean, where you got to settle into a series, right?
- [22:37]
Wendy
It's been a long time. It's been many, many games since they haven't faced elimination. That's True. All right, well, I think this is going to be a grinder of a series, and I suspect it'll be a long series, but we'll see. We never, Vince, we never overreact to game one. You can do whatever you want. I don't. I don't want to do it.
- [22:58]
Tim Bontemps
There's always time windows.
- [22:59]
Vince Goodwill
I don't overreact to game ones. But I need people to understand this. Isaiah Thomas and Joe Dumars ain't walking through that door. And if they do, they're going to be old and gray. So when I talk about these things,
- [23:11]
Wendy
I'm very happy to see Ben Wallace, but it is kind of messing me up that Ben's, like, fully gray and with a gray beard. Like, you know, that's my contemporary. You know, like, when I came to the league, he was the man, you know, not. I came in league. When I started covering the league, he was the man in the. In the league in the middle of his prime. So, you know, I'm feeling my own mortality seeing Ben on that courtside seat.
- [23:31]
Vince Goodwill
Yeah, you. You ever had Ben Wallace put his. His finger in your chest? Cause he's mad at you?
- [23:36]
Wendy
Yes. I had Ben Wallace once stalk me down across two basketball courts. He didn't yell. He doesn't have to yell. Ben didn't have to yell. No. I have been in the crosshairs of Ben Wallace.
- [23:51]
Tim Bontemps
Oh, what that story time? What is that story time?
- [23:54]
Wendy
Story Time presented by Sofi get yout Money. Right. One of the years that the Cavs played with. With Ben Wallace, I think he was there two plus seasons. The Cavs had just tremendous camaraderie with their team. And I was noticing early in the season how they really enjoyed being around each other. And there was even this one time where they were. They were off to a great start. And there was even this one time where they literally hung out in the locker room after the game drinking beer. Now, this is. Beer has long since been banned from locker rooms. It was not unusual back then. It was sort of a transition time. Somebody got caught with the dui and they. Not in Cleveland, but somewhere else in the league, and they banned it. So beer in the locker room now, it would be like, unheard of. But at the time, it was not unheard of. The more fascinating was that the players were hanging out at home. They could have gone home. It was not like a road game in Milwaukee. They could have gone home and they were hanging out with each other, drinking beer after. After a game, like in November or December. And I was describing the scene, talking about it in a positive light about these guys like each other so much. They're chilling and drinking beer after home games. And Ben did not like that I was writing about their sort of hang in the locker room, you know, and he absolutely. It was the end of a practice and he was not speaking to the media. He was not requested by the media that day. And he made this slow walk all the way across two practice courts in Cleveland and made it very, very clear to me in no uncertain terms, I should not be writing about stuff that's happening in the locker room that's not like in a straight interview session like that. He did not like it. And when I tried to explain to him that I was not doing it in any sinister way, that I was doing it in a way to talk about their chemistry, Ben did not care. And not only that, but I would say kind of held the grudge for 10 plus years because when he came once to do some television at espn, he did a few shows with us. He came in and I went in the green room to see him because I hadn't seen him in many years and he didn't specifically reference it, but he was basically like, we're gonna be cool, right? I was like, that's a question for you, buddy, not a question for me. You know, I loved covering Ben. I covered him when he was with the Pistons, just with a lot of wars with the Cavs, but then he became a Cav. So if you're asking me whether I've. He didn't put his finger in my chest, Vince. So you're asking me I ever came in the crosshairs of Benjamin Wallace? I certainly did.
- [26:34]
Vince Goodwill
As have I.
- [26:38]
Wendy
So anyway, that's all for this segment. Thank you very much, Vince. We'll talk to you later in the series.
- [26:46]
Vince Goodwill
Yes, sir.
- [26:48]
Ban McMahon
More HOOPP Collective podcast after this.
- [26:52]
Wendy
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- [29:24]
Ban McMahon
Howdy partners.
- [29:25]
Wendy
All right, so we did have the kickoff of the conference semifinals on Monday and I thought we would start with probably what will be the highest profile series of the second round. Of course I'm saying this, for all I know both of the earlier games that happened tonight later earlier went down to last second shots and we'll have a completely different view of it. But as we're doing this on Tuesday afternoon late morning here in Los Angeles, the Sixers Knicks series is looking like a delicious one. Although bontemps it did not go that way in game one where I felt that the Knicks had a very not. It wasn't like a revolutionary game plan but it was a clear eyed game plan to attack the 76ers which they executed beautifully and got another blowout win. Their fourth consecutive blowout win Going back
- [30:17]
Tim Bontemps
to last series, yeah, I mean, the Knicks were awesome, and the Sixers look like a team that had nothing in the tank. And, you know, like, the Knicks flew around, they hit a million shots, their shooting numbers were out of control. Jalen Brunson got off to a great start, crowd got into the game, and, like, I mean, it was over by halftime. I mean, if you're. If you want to look for any silver lining for the Sixers, it was so bad that by the middle of the third quarter, everybody was on the bench and they could essentially take the rest of the night off. And a team that had just come off of a grueling end of their series in Boston sort of got a practice run in because that was how the game really felt with how it went. So, you know, the Celtics smoked the Sixers in game one, Sixers came back in one. Game two. We'll see if that happens again here. But like you said, the Knicks are playing fantastic basketball right now. I thought their movement, both their pace in terms of getting the ball up and down the court and their pace in the half court made a real impact on the game. The Sixers aren't the highest energy team at the best of times, and on a night where they were lagging in energy, certainly that played a role for the Knicks. The Knicks are probably not going to shoot 70% from the field and 60% from three like they did for most of this game a lot. But they're in a great rhythm right now offensively. And, you know, the Sixers have now played eight playoff games. They've not shot the ball well in three of them. They all were routes. So if they're not hitting shots, the game's probably going to be ugly, particularly against this Knicks team that can really fill it up. So, you know, we'll see if they've got more energy in game two. We'll see how Joel Embiid and those guys bounce back and play. But the Knicks are certainly got to be feeling good about the way they're moving on offense and the way they're operating over these last four games. And they've just been absolutely in control of every one of them.
- [32:21]
Ban McMahon
Wendy, you've got a rule about overreacting. Game one, never, never. And I would say, especially under these circumstances, where 48 hours earlier, the Sixers had a. An emotional, tough, you know, game seven win where they rallied from three one down, probably didn't have just the most juice in the world after a travel day going into Madison Square Garden. Having said all that The Knicks present some massive problems for the Sixers, and I think especially for Joel Embiid on the defensive end. Embiid is not a guy who's comfortable moving his feet and, you know, having to close out the shooters out on the perimeter. You know, I said cats got to make him swim in those perimeter waters. And when you. And it's not just Cat's numbers, although, you know, you know, Cat had 17. He shot it. Well, there was the one play in particular where it was catch and go, and it looked like Embiid was just, you know, wearing concrete shoes. Out there on the perimeters, Cat goes in for the easy bucket. But when he, When Embiid is out there, there's. There's no rim protection. The floor is wide open. And that's especially true, you know, when the Sixers are going to knock down 51% of their three point shots. But a wide open floor, when Jalen Brunson's got the ball in his hands and there's not really a guy that you feel comfortable saying, hey, he can make Brunson's life difficult.
- [33:50]
Wendy
That's a.
- [33:50]
Ban McMahon
You know, the Sixers got some things to figure out, Right.
- [33:53]
Wendy
Like, how do the Sixers ever win a game? How have they ever won a game with Joel Embiid? Like, this is what happens when you get, you know, heavier analysis.
- [34:00]
Ban McMahon
I didn't say that.
- [34:02]
Tim Bontemps
No, I wasn't talking about you.
- [34:04]
Wendy
I wasn't talking about you. But, like, this is what happens when analysis happens. Like, you know, there's breakdowns of the, of the plays and you see Brunson coming off these screens with Embiid standing at the foul line and Brunson walks into a three and you're like, oh, my God.
- [34:18]
Ban McMahon
You know, Bob, I'd show the one where Embiid got completely turned around as Brunson pulled comfortably into a mid range pull up, right?
- [34:25]
Wendy
And there were times where Embiid didn't know whether to go with the rolling big man Mitch Robinson was rolling or, you know, there were times when it was Ariel Huckporty out there and they shouldn't have worried about him at all. But neither him or there. The point is, is that they were dreadful for the Sixers to work for anything of it to work. Joel Embiid's got to be awesome on offense.
- [34:46]
Ban McMahon
Yeah.
- [34:46]
Wendy
Which he was in those last three games against the Celtics. And in this game, he was 3 of 11 shooting. And he did get to the foul line a little bit.
- [34:57]
Tim Bontemps
So he did draw some fouls. You know, I Didn't. I don't like the Knicks having Carl Towns on Joel Embiid on defense. Joel immediately got him in foul trouble. I think he will get in foul trouble basically every game if he's guarding him.
- [35:11]
Wendy
We were texting. I thought Carl committed four fouls in the first five minutes of the game. He only got called for two of them.
- [35:18]
Tim Bontemps
He got called for two. It looked like he had a moving screen on offense, and then he had a play where he could have been called for a foul. Stripping the ball from Embiid on defense. Like Carl. Carl just is going to reach and make. And like Joel is probably. It causes a lot of people. Ajita, understandably, because it's not always fun to watch, but he is.
- [35:39]
Ban McMahon
Has his. What?
- [35:41]
Tim Bontemps
People get upset like you do all the time.
- [35:44]
Wendy
It happens in New York City a lot. There's a lot of odds.
- [35:47]
Tim Bontemps
There's a lot of New York, and there's a lot of odds in New York about Joellen Bead. And he is, for all. For all the complaining about it, he's as good as anybody in the league at drawing fouls, and Carl Towns is as good as anybody in the league at committing dumb fouls. So, like. And Carl. And to your point, Carl is such a unique offensive weapon and can really wreak havoc on the Sixers if he gets going, they need to have him on the court. The other thing that was evident at the start of this game is Tyrese Maxey will oftentimes defer to Joel Embiid at times way too much. First quarter, he barely did anything with the ball. And I thought it was a mistake that Nick Nurse had he and Joel Embiid out there together the entire first quarter. Because if you're trying to feed your all the ball early, which I get to some extent, like, Joel's got the most energy early. Get him in a rhythm, get going. Take Tyrese out earlier and have VJ Edgecombe or somebody else just throw the ball to Embiid in the post and then have Tyrese Maxey come back and start the second quarter and have the ball in his hands and get a bunch of shots up.
- [36:47]
Wendy
Because, yeah, he only took nine shots,
- [36:50]
Tim Bontemps
and he only had a couple in the competitive portion of the game, which lasted about 18 minutes.
- [36:54]
Ban McMahon
Yeah, I was gonna say. When was that?
- [36:55]
Wendy
Partners Nurse waved the flag in the
- [36:57]
Tim Bontemps
third quarter, but the point is in the first quarter. I think it took one shot, and, like, he's got the Nick. The Sixers have to have him engaged in taking a bunch of shots. And in the game and not being a passenger, which he was for a lot of the early going when the Knicks got ahead. But look, a lot of this stuff is, is going to come back to The Sixers need to have way more energy. They should have a lot more energy in game two and we'll see what they look like. The other thing that was evident from game one though that is going to be another problem for Philly is, you know, the OG Anunoby is going to be a very difficult matchup for them to try to have somebody on. And he is, he is playing the best basketball of his career at the moment.
- [37:39]
Wendy
OG he kind of got a little bit overshadowed how good he was in the Hawks series because he trucked. Yeah.
- [37:47]
Tim Bontemps
In the last round. Truck.
- [37:49]
Ban McMahon
Well, he's always been a guy who thought there was more, you know, on the bone for him offensively. More, you know, that he could do more. And he's been doing more and doing it very well.
- [38:00]
Wendy
I mean look, these are, these are surface level things that you're probably going to see. But something that you could see in game two is one, one of the things that people do when they have issues with Brunson in the pick and roll is they put their big man. This has happened throughout the second half of the season. They put their big man on Josh Hart because you're not as worried about Josh Hart offensively. And so you could put in beat on Josh Hart and basically just Darren to shoot and then not have Embiid in the, in the pick and roll with as much with Towns or Robinson with Towns. Of course the Knicks can just adjust that and put Hart and pick and rolls. But it's a little bit. You're a little bit less worried about that than you are with Towns. And the other thing, you know, you mentioned to be drawn fouls. I think, you know, that was a very effective thing. I mean they had. They went down to their third string center Ariel Hook Porty in the first quarter or maybe it's early second quarter because.
- [38:52]
Tim Bontemps
No, it's first quarter.
- [38:53]
Wendy
It was first quarter. The other thing is, is that they did hack a Mitch Robinson and Mitch missed the free throws and they kind of went away from it because the game got lopsided. But that is an effective strategy that has forced Mitch Robinson off the court and Mitch is.
- [39:09]
Tim Bontemps
Mike Brown has been very quick to pull the plug on him. Whenever teams. Quinn Snyder did that in the first round. He pulled the plug almost immediately every time. I mean I was pretty surprised at how little of an impact Mitch had On that Hawks series, I thought he would really be destroying them. And part of it was the Hawks did hack a few times and just kind of kept them sidelined for a lot of it. And, you know, Nick Nurse went to it, the one real opportunity he had in Game one. I suspect they'll go back to it again as the series continues and, you know, it certainly will be something to watch. But all this is secondary to the Sixers just obviously have it too. Hit the play better, adjustment a lot harder in Game two.
- [39:48]
Wendy
We'll get an idea of where the series is going after Wednesday night. Boy, was that an entertaining game in San Antonio on Monday night. The Timberwolves come in there first off, we get the news on Sunday that Ant is upgraded to questionable. And then he plays, which you could tell by the reaction in the locker room how much of an uplift that was to the team. They were bringing him off the bench, which I never quite understand when you're coming off an injury. I always feel like you should warm up and play when you're a starter. But what ended up happening is Chris Finch had a beautiful game plan in this game, not only on how to handle Victor Wembanyama, handle. To manage.
- [40:33]
Ban McMahon
To make it tough on him.
- [40:34]
Wendy
Yeah. But also to manage and Edwards. And he was able to get so much production out of him in the 25 minutes he played. Ant was tired by the end of this game. You know this because Ant usually does his greatest talking after winning road playoff games. He's got a bunch of them now and he. But he was like. He had towel over his head and he was all subdued. But they got a great fourth quarter out of Ant, which Chris Finch managed. And this was one of the great defensive performances, individual defensive performances you'll ever see in the playoffs. Victor Wembanyama had 12 blocks in this game. 12. Okay. It's the most ever recorded, you know, with an asterisk. Yeah.
- [41:21]
Ban McMahon
Blocks were official.
- [41:22]
Wendy
Yes. For all I know, George Mikan had 37.
- [41:26]
Ban McMahon
No, they have. Basketball Reference has.
- [41:28]
Tim Bontemps
They have.
- [41:29]
Ban McMahon
They've gone back. I don't know when it started, but they've gone back and they've got like all of Wilt's things. And Jordan Howenstein, the Spurs as PR man, had this stat, the triple double. With 10 plus blocks in the playoffs, Wimby now has one. No other player has more than one other than wilt, who has 16.
- [41:51]
Wendy
Right. But it was just the nature of the way he was doing it. I compared what was happening with the Timberwolves offense to a Taxi driver trying to get to LaGuardia during the UN General Assembly. He kept turning down avenues and side streets and he kept running into, into traffic and then trying another way. But here's the thing. The Timberwolves had such a great mental approach. They never let it affect them. When they ran into him and realized that that was a pathway, wasn't there there. They just looked for another way and they were at the end of the shot clock a lot, but they never let down. And so here I went and looked at it. So Victor blocked 12 shots. Five of those the Timberwolves were able to get possession back. Two of them they got baskets.
- [42:38]
Ban McMahon
Including that Conley three.
- [42:40]
Wendy
That was hugely four minutes left, right? So two of them, they got baskets. Two of them, they drew fouls. One of them was a non shooting foul. And they didn't score in the possession. They actually had a shot clock violation. But one of them they got free throws out of. So they, I think generated six points after Victor blocked shots in those possessions. And they won the game. They won by two. And my point is not so much breaking down those, those actual stats is the demeanor that it had. Here's something else, guys. They scored 52 points in the paint. So despite Victor block, and I have to assume that most, I didn't research this, I have to assume that Most of those 12 blocks were in the paint. Maybe, you know, he steps out, he can block a shot anywhere. Let's just say overwhelming majority of they still got in there and got 26 baskets in there. And so my hats off, McMahon to the mental toughness not to let Victor completely derail your offense just because he's playing great on defense.
- [43:38]
Ban McMahon
Well. And Terry Shannon Jr. Who, you know, played well as a starter again after the game, he said, hey, he's going to have to block it every time. We're going to keep attacking, we're going to keep going in there. And the Wolves play with sets when the Wolves are right. And when the Wolves are ramped up in the playoffs. I know it frustrates Fence that he has 82 games of, you know, kind of wavering intensity, but they're right. During the playoffs, this team is so aggressive, you know, it's a snarling pack of wolves. And you know, Ant sets the tone. Jaden McDaniels really set the tone in the last series, but they play with a level of aggression that they, despite Wimby's dominance protecting the rim, were not going to allow him to impact. And then, you know, Ant coming off the bench just For a lot of the game, it was really just kind of the. The. I think the emotional lift. And then come fourth quarter, he was. It was closing time. And the three that he hit over Wemby, that's when I was like, okay, the Wolves can pull this one out. But really, this game was won by the Wolves on the other end of the floor, where Wemby never got in anything close to an offensive rhythm. I mean, the only reason his triple double was in doubt was because he barely scored over 10 points. And then Darren Fox had a complete dud. And, you know, those are their two guys who are all stars this year. One's the face of the franchise, one is the vet who's got to be their closer. And they both had poor offensive performances. Just like, honestly, for a lot of last series. So did Nicole Jokic and Jamal Murray. I don't think it's a coincidence. I think you got to give Rudy Gobert, Jaden McDaniels and the Wolves coaching staff in particular a lot of credit.
- [45:28]
Tim Bontemps
Yeah, no question. I mean, the Wolves. The Wolves are just. Just absolutely inspiring to watch. Like, they have all these injuries. No IO Dasumu in this game, no Dante DiVincenzo in this game, no Anthony Edwards in game six. It's. It's just amazing. Like, it doesn't matter who is playing. They play incredibly hard. They're disciplined. Chris Finch has done a remarkable job. I mean, we were joking about it after game six, you know, he gets up there on the podium and says, oh, Denver, they were desperately trying to playoffs in this series, and we, as we. As we spent days leading up to the playoffs, literally the polar opposite of what actually happened.
- [46:12]
Ban McMahon
No, they were not. They were trying.
- [46:13]
Wendy
I gave him a pass. I gave him a pass on that, but it's not.
- [46:17]
Tim Bontemps
The point is, though, that it's like journalism.
- [46:19]
Ban McMahon
Facts don't always matter.
- [46:20]
Tim Bontemps
Well, yes, exactly. They are able to rise up and play at a level in the playoffs consistently now over the past few years that frankly, they don't during the regular season. It's part of what makes them a maddening team. They have these lulls every year in the regular season where they lose some inexplicable games or have these meltdowns in the fourth quarter and lose, and you're like, minnesota, you guys are really good. What are you doing? How is this happening? And then they get to the playoffs and like you said, McMahon, Jade McDaniels, Rudy Gobert, you know, Julius Randle had huge moments last night. Like, these guys are just tough Minded and physical and they take it to the opposition. It's really fun to watch and we talked about it going into the series. The spurs have lived a charmed existence. They've had virtually no adversity all season. They won 60 games. They're way ahead of schedule. You, Victor had some injuries, but they, they had not adversity. Charmed here.
- [47:19]
Ban McMahon
It was a charmed year.
- [47:20]
Tim Bontemps
They, they had charmed season at zero, at zero points in the season. Was there any drama with the Spurs?
- [47:26]
Ban McMahon
I would say when there was drama.
- [47:30]
Tim Bontemps
Not really.
- [47:31]
Wendy
We're living in the world where they had to, you know, finals are bust.
- [47:35]
Tim Bontemps
No, the hope was that they would be competing for a top six spot and they won 60 games.
- [47:42]
Wendy
Right.
- [47:42]
Tim Bontemps
Like everything has been awesome.
- [47:44]
Wendy
You know, Bontempson's always been very high on the Spurs. McMahon, you always know.
- [47:48]
Ban McMahon
I know I'll be well, I will be eating well.
- [47:52]
Tim Bontemps
The spurs, the spurs have had an incredible season, but they are a young team with no experience. And so now they are truly facing an adverse situation. To go back to the great LeBron quote about the Raptors, Victor being out in Game 3 and then being down to an under to a not very good Portland team, that was not a truly adverse situation.
- [48:14]
Ban McMahon
Being there ain't no Anthony Edwards in Portland.
- [48:17]
Wendy
There was some.
- [48:17]
Tim Bontemps
How about this is a much different challenge. And look, spurs might win the next four games. They might play great. Like, I'm not saying that the series is over, but they shot under 30% from 3. You mentioned Darren Fox. He was not good. You know, Victor, they were able to get Victor off his game like and when elevation is fun to see. Let's see how the spurs respond to this.
- [48:38]
Wendy
Right. So one of the things that we're always, you know, keeping our fingers in the air on is about the test in the wind on the spurs three point shooting because they love it and you know, they believe that it's the way to open up their offense. And in the second half of the season, they were terrific at it in the, in the, in the Blazers series. They had some terrific treaty performances and they had a dud in game one. They were 10 of 36 and Victor
- [49:06]
Ban McMahon
was 0 of 8 and O of 8 by Wimby. Yeah, and look, I still, if, if he has eight good looks, I still want him to take the eight looks. I think usually is going to hit between two and four of those. If he hits between two and four, they win the game. You know, Finch would say, hey, if they called the two or three goaltens on him we'd had a more comfortable lead anyways. But I don't, I didn't mind the shot selection. But he like, to me, the more concerning thing is he was only able to get five attempts inside the, inside the arc. You know, five two point attempts, like at no point. And a lot of those were like, you know, tips. At no point was Wimby able to get anything going other than three pointers. Like he was never able to get in anything resembling a rhythm. And that was a lot of Gobert. And in the second half, Randle, as you've seen the bigger physical forwards who were able to kind of just push him around a little bit.
- [50:05]
Wendy
Randall played a excellent game, Excellent game. He was one of the guys who was leading the mental toughness at the offensive end because, you know, he, he ran, you know, he got embarrassed a few times. You know, he, he, you know, he got his shot shoved back at him.
- [50:22]
Tim Bontemps
I saw a quote from Jade McDaniels where he, somebody asked him about all the Victor blocks and he said essentially you just got to keep shooting because he's the tallest man in the world and he's going to get some blocks. And like that, that is the right approach. Like you can't get worked up about it. He is going to get blocks. He is probably the most unique player we've ever seen defensively in the league. Maybe just period. And that is the way you have to do it. I also thought Minnesota, to your point about the physicality, Tim, I, you saw down the stretch in the game, like there was a couple plays where they were able to sort of. It wasn't quite a gore touch screen, but like they're able to like get into. Yeah, they're able to kind of get Julius into Victor and like not let him get around him. So like Terence Shannon I think one time got to the bucket for a layup. They're able to like create some room where Victor like couldn't quite get over in position to block a shot.
- [51:13]
Ban McMahon
Yeah, they're able to move him around and you know, cause some traffic for him. You know, you mentioned the three point shooting. I do just want to mention the play at the end and Mitch Johnson was second guessed immediately because he didn't call a timeout. I thought they got probably their best three point shooter, a really good three point look. I mean, you know, he had to pump, fake and sidestep. But that was a wide open look for Julian Champagne who's fresh off shooting 62% from three point range in the first round and made three of his first six last night ended up three, seven to me. I don't mind letting it go, letting your players operate and make decisions against a team getting back on defense versus drawing up a play while Finch is over there scheming a set defense.
- [52:07]
Wendy
So. So I think that's a non story. I know everyone's going to have their opinion, especially in the immediate wake of it. They got a good shot. The only thing I would talk about in that last play, the only time I would have thought about a timeout is Dylan Harper and Victor played a little hot potato there at the end.
- [52:23]
Tim Bontemps
At that point, it's kind of hard because once you catch it and pass
- [52:25]
Wendy
it, you can't advance the bat.
- [52:27]
Tim Bontemps
You either got to inbound that either got inbound the back court. You got to call both your timeouts and advance it into the front court. Then you don't have any timeouts left.
- [52:34]
Wendy
I understand. I'm just.
- [52:35]
Tim Bontemps
I initially thought, because I was watching on my phone at the Nick game, I thought initially that Chimpani like double clutched it and kind of hoisted it up. But when I watch it back, like, man was immediately like, oh, look, he got a good shot. And he did get a clean look from three like it. You know, you're probably not getting a better shot than that in the moment. So I like it again, I mean, that was just a wild sequence because both teams, it was, it was very refreshing in some ways because both teams had two timeouts. Neither team called any. The Wolves have this horrible turnover. Like you said, Ant was subdued after the game. Ant was just killing himself for the turnover and knocking off rebounds and different things, but he has this awful turnover. I thought the Wolves would call timeout. Then they didn't call timeout. Then they ran this set. Julius missed a jumper that would have put the game away. And then Mitch didn't call timeout. And it was an actual 30 seconds in. The game was over.
- [53:27]
Wendy
It was a remarkable NBA moment when, when champagne missed and the horn went off, I was like, oh my God, the game's over. I was like, wow, that, that, that escalated quickly. There are very few NBA games that
- [53:39]
Tim Bontemps
truly end in the final 30 seconds in 30 seconds. And that one literally ended in 30 seconds.
- [53:44]
Wendy
I agree, I agree. Well, you know, the spurs could easily be up 1. No, but, but Ant coming back and the Wolves stealing that game pretty much lays the groundwork for what could be a terrific series here and sure could be. I can't wait to see how Victor responds. And obviously there will be, you know, X and O response because Finch did have a good defensive or offensive game plan against Wembanyama.
- [54:07]
Ban McMahon
So and, and listen, man, Mitch Johnson in his first full season as the head coach did an umbrella, unbelievable stat job. That spurs staff had a phenomenal season. They've got a great coaching staff. They've got a huge challenge because Chris Finch can coach, that Wolf staff can coach and they are a proven playoff coaching staff.
- [54:27]
Wendy
They've won five playoffs series last three years.
- [54:30]
Tim Bontemps
Yeah, I mean, that's the thing. This is a team with a ton of experience, a ton of success like this. This is, you know, this is.
- [54:36]
Wendy
And they've been the lower seed for four of them.
- [54:38]
Tim Bontemps
I believe they're the first team in NBA history to have a playoff upset three consecutive games.
- [54:42]
Ban McMahon
Years seed wise, I believe which is related to they kind of. They're not the most mature team in the world. They do tend to coast a bit during the regular season, but when it
- [54:51]
Tim Bontemps
gets to this time of year, they're ready to go.
- [54:54]
Ban McMahon
Well, and look, Ant's never been first team all NBA. Don't tell me there's five players you'd rather have in a playoff series than him.
- [55:00]
Wendy
Agree. All right, thank you, McMahon. We look forward to your spectacular coverage of this game that you will cover in a few hours.
- [55:08]
Ban McMahon
More Hoop Collective podcast after this.
- [55:11]
Vince Goodwill
Hey, sports fans, the ESPN app has
- [55:13]
Tim Bontemps
all of ESPN all in one place. The ESPN app is your home to thousands of live events, ESPN shows and originals across every ESPN network and service.
- [55:23]
Vince Goodwill
And now you can check if you
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Tim Bontemps
already have ESPN Unlimited as part of
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Vince Goodwill
your TV package for no additional cost.
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Tim Bontemps
Visit activate.espn.com to learn how to access
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Vince Goodwill
your account or sign up, then start streaming in the ESPN app.
- [55:36]
Tim Bontemps
It's all of ESPN all in one place.
- [55:38]
Vince Goodwill
Sign up or activate now.
- [55:46]
Wendy
Okay. Welcome back to the Hoop Collective. We're now hours later here. Joining us again from Oklahoma City following the Thunder's relatively routine victory over the lakers in game one is Ban McMahon. McMahon. I would just say that. I don't know. In other parts of the pod tonight we've been giving grades to teams. What would you give grades to? The performance for the Thunder in getting this 10 series way.
- [56:12]
Ban McMahon
Howdy again, partners. Well, Mark Dagenau used the word imperfect. I certainly think that summed it up. And I actually discussed with Shea what I thought the grade for him was. I thought he had a C minus game. Yeah, seven turnovers. Now. Chet Holmgren made it clear like, look, some of those turnovers because guys weren't in the right place But a seven turnover game from Shea is like, way out of the norm.
- [56:37]
Wendy
He had 18 points. This is a guy who set the record for 20, 20 point games. He had 18 points.
- [56:42]
Ban McMahon
Yeah. Now he didn't. There was a few times in the playoffs last year he didn't get 20. But yes, you know, 18 points on 15 shots. Like, he shot it. Okay. But he only got to the line a few times. C minus by him. I thought, honestly, the only guy on the Thunder that I really thought played very well tonight was Chet Holmgren, who is a much better player than he was a year ago because he's gotten better and just because of the circumstances, healthier. But a very, A very mediocre performance by OKC. And they won by 18.
- [57:15]
Wendy
That kind of sums it up on this.
- [57:16]
Tim Bontemps
Yeah, I mean, you know, like, the Thunder were fine, but, you know, they. They won the game going away. I mean, unless Luka Doncic can come back and play in this series, the Thunder shouldn't lose a game and they shouldn't be much more competitive than this. And that's. The Lakers just don't have the weapons to go up against this team. We've seen this time and time again this season. It's like, you know, it was a great accomplishment for them to win in the first round against this Rockets. Against the Rockets, obviously, I think we all picked them to lose the series. They did a great job. Dominated large stretches of time in the series. Great Game six. But like, the Thunder are just several levels up from that and, you know, they don't have anybody to guard Shay. They don't have the ability to keep up with the speed and athleticism the Thunder have. Like, you know, they can get a win. I think it's very impressive. They can get two wins to get a third home game. I think it's extremely impressive because they just don't. It's just hard to look at this and think it should be competitive at all.
- [58:17]
Ban McMahon
They don't have any hope if Austin Reeves isn't really good.
- [58:20]
Wendy
Exactly.
- [58:21]
Ban McMahon
He had, I mean, 8. 8 points on 3 of 16 shooting. And you know, look, this is a guy who rushed back from an oblique injury. That was at this point just over a month ago. Okay. The, like, the circumstances have to be considered here. This is an extremely tough situation for Austin Reaves and he is a priority for the Thunder defense, but he's not the priority like Lou Dort's. I'm sorry, Lou Dort was defending LeBron James. A.J. mitchell, who is a solid defender, but he's not Lou Dort, he's not Jalen Williams, who's obviously out. He was the primary defender for most of the game on Austin Reeves. You know, Casey Wallace got some time, caruso. But again, three of 16, eight points.
- [59:09]
Wendy
Like, that's just.
- [59:10]
Ban McMahon
The Lakers have no chance if Austin Reaves isn't really good.
- [59:14]
Tim Bontemps
Well, and it's also what you just said too, where the Lakers or the Thunder have several different guys who are excellent, borderline all defensive team caliber players that they could throw at Austin Reaves anyway. So not only is he coming back from oblique, not only is he trying to get back up to speed in the middle of the playoffs, he's doing it against a team that's got several different guys. They can all rotate onto him and give him hell the entire game. Like it's just an extremely difficult spot to be in.
- [59:37]
Wendy
Right. Well, look, the last round when the Lakers were able to get ahead in the series, they relied on their role players to deliver offense. And it was more important without Reaves, now that Reaves is back. But even if you, you know, if you take out Reaves as three of 16, like you might be able to weather that storm. Maybe not against the Thunder, but you can weather that storm if you get something from Marcus Smart and Luke Kennard. Smart and Kennard, like have turned in back into pumpkins offensively. Smarts. 415 tonight, canard one of four. Like those guys were so important against the Rockets that gave them, you know, margin for error and you know, like, if you're going to pull this off and I realized Hachimura had a good game tonight offensively, I thought deandre Ayton played well in the first half at least, you know, there was, there was some action there. But you just, you know, against a team like Oklahoma City, like Oklahoma City, you're talking about average production. They had 108 points. Like their defense is so strong that 108 points is probably going to win most playoff games for them.
- [60:39]
Ban McMahon
Yeah. And you know, I mean, J.J. redick, you know, before the series started, put this into perspective about just what kind of challenge the Lakers are facing. When he said, hey, you look at double figure average point differential in consecutive seasons, you're talking about the Thunder now you're talking about the peak warriors dynasty and you're talking about the, you know, the last three rings that, you know, those Jordan teams of the Jordan Bulls teams. I mean, this is a historically dominant team and the Lakers are trying to get this done without the face of their franchise for now. And you know, maybe for the whole series, we'll see.
- [61:22]
Wendy
Yeah, well, let's, let's step back from historically great because I, you know, I appreciate what JJ was doing. Let's just look at the teams in the modern era that have won consecutive championships in a row. Because consecutive championships in a row we know is hard to do and true. So you're, you're talking about the warriors before that, you're talking about the Heat before that, you're talking about the Lakers, Shaq, Kobe, Lakers, right before that you're talking, you, you get into Jordan. So if that, just by that standard, like if the Thunder in that zone, it says enough.
- [61:58]
Ban McMahon
Well, and if you're talking about, you know, again, I gave you the point differential, you can also just say wins. You know, they won 68 and 64. That's 132 wins over two year span. And again it's those, it's the Steph warriors at their peak and you know, the tail end of the Jordan Bulls peak and that. And that's like, that's an NBA history now. They've. Look, if they don't win a championship this year, then you can scrap it. Although the second batch of that, those warriors didn't win championship in that and that's the third year, I guess. But again, the Thunder are putting together, they are in the process of putting together a resume to be discussed as one of the all time great teams.
- [62:45]
Wendy
All right, we should just note before we move on that LeBron tonight did have 27 points on 12 of 17 shooting. Hit three out of six threes, had six assists, just two turnovers in 36 minutes.
- [63:00]
Ban McMahon
Like, and again he was being defended by Lou Dord.
- [63:04]
Wendy
Right? I mean like with all due respect, like you know, casual, casual 41 year old greatness.
- [63:11]
Ban McMahon
Like how many guys in the league are more athletic than LeBron right now? It's not a long list.
- [63:16]
Tim Bontemps
Yeah, there's, there's a decent number now compared to what it was five, ten years ago especially. But not many, not as many as there should be. When he's the oldest player in the
- [63:24]
Ban McMahon
league, there's not like 20 or 25. He might have lost some wiggle. But in terms of like straight line speed and vertical explosiveness, I mean he's, he's still 6, 9, 200, whatever, 60 pounds. And he's a, he's just, at 41, he's still just a complete freak of nature, I think.
- [63:43]
Wendy
Let me ask you this, if you took him off the Lakers, a team that is in a situation where they're probably not winning this series and you put him on some of these other teams. Like let's say you put him on the Knicks. Let's say you put him on the Cavs or you put him on like, let's say. Let's say you put him on what?
- [64:03]
Tim Bontemps
Denver, Minnesota? I don't.
- [64:04]
Wendy
I mean, yeah, let's say you put him on Denver is what I was going to say. I mean, we're talking about a different situation here.
- [64:10]
Ban McMahon
Oh, he changed. Now, the one thing, I don't think LeBron can be your number one option every single night just because the wear and tear, you know, combined with the age and all that. But again, like, we saw what he was doing when he was the Lakers third option and just the efficiency and the explosiveness and like, yeah, could Denver have used a guy who can dribble, pass, shoot playing off of Joker while Jamal Murray was getting completely owned by Jaden McDaniels? Yeah, I think that would have made a difference.
- [64:42]
Tim Bontemps
I mean, he's still an all star caliber player as a 41 year old and the oldest player in the league. I mean, it's insane.
- [64:47]
Ban McMahon
You know, as Shai said before the series started and you know, he praised him as an all time great and all that. He said, obviously he's a little out of his prime, but he's still very capable.
- [64:59]
Wendy
That's well said. All right. Speaking of well said, Masai Ujiri said some things today as he was introduced as the president of the Mavericks. We'll be right back on the HOOPP Collective. Okay, welcome back to this unique episode of the Hoop Collective where as we went on, McMahon got better dressed, I got worse dressed. I have, you know, no product and no makeup in my hair now. McMahon is spectacular. Bontemps.
- [65:24]
Ban McMahon
I don't know what to say about that. He's not natural
- [65:27]
Wendy
anyway. But one of the things that happened today while we were filming this in three or four different parts was Masayu Jiri was named, was introduced in Dallas. McMahon. What. What takeaways did you have from what he said?
- [65:40]
Ban McMahon
The main thing is, you know, he is a commanding presence who knows how to deliver a message which is desperately needed in a franchise that's had massive issues all over. But the messaging from the franchise has been very messy. It was certainly a major weak point for Nico Harrison. Patrick Dumont could not be less comfortable in front of a microphone. Like he's the polar opposite from Mark Cuban. He runs as fast as he can from microphones and Cuban ran to him. Cuban ran a little Faster. But, hey, but, you know, the message just summed up is real simple. Luke is gone. It's time to move forward. And, you know, as he said, you know, he gave something like, you know, talking about in Africa, when one king leaves, another one comes.
- [66:31]
Tim Bontemps
Yeah.
- [66:32]
Wendy
I've got the quote here. You're in the middle of your. You're still reporting tonight. In Africa, we say when kings go, kings come. And a king went Luca. And we have a little prince here. Now we're going to turn him into a king.
- [66:49]
Ban McMahon
Yeah. And his whole thing is, hey, yeah. And that's exactly the message that it should be. We've got Cooper Flagg, we've got a chance to build something around this kid who is special. That's where the focus needs to be. And look, in Dallas, there's still a lot of people who are focused on the loss of Luca. And, like, there's still a grieving process. But you got lucky. You got another chance. And it's Messiah's job to maximize the gift that they got. There's nothing he can do about the Luca trade. You know, like, he was asked, would you have done that trade? And he basically said, like, why are you asking me that question? There's no point in even answering that. Like, let's focus on the opportunity in front of us now. I thought so. That was the message. I thought the most interesting thing was when Christian Clark of the Athletic asked him, can you definitively say that Jason Kidd will be the head coach this season? And do you have that quote in front of you by chance, Wendy?
- [67:45]
Wendy
He said, I have a version of what he said. He said, I'm going to hear Jason Kidd out his thoughts on everything and follow a lot on what he's saying. Because some of the stuff here, I don't know. I have to follow a process here, and I'm excited to meet with him. It sounded like he hadn't met with Jason Kidd yet.
- [68:05]
Ban McMahon
And what I can tell you is this. Jason Kidd was not involved in the process of getting Masai Ujiri to the Mavericks. Jason Kidd was not in the loop on that process. He was informed, you know, when it was a done deal, much like Mark Cuban was. Now, that doesn't mean, like, I'm just saying, it doesn't mean that Jason Kidd's not going to be the Mavericks coach now. And moving forward, you know, this is the better quote.
- [68:35]
Wendy
I'm sorry to interrupt you. This is the better quote. Quote, this is Messiah Jirian Jason Kidd quote, he's done a great job, but we are going to look at this thing from head to toe. That's the right way to look at an organization.
- [68:47]
Ban McMahon
It's a completely non committal quote. Now, he inherited, remind me, the coach he inherited in Denver is George Carl. George Carl, who was there the next few years with him.
- [68:58]
Tim Bontemps
Three years.
- [68:59]
Ban McMahon
He inherited Dwayne Casey in Toronto, who was there, I believe, the next five years with him.
- [69:03]
Wendy
Correct.
- [69:04]
Ban McMahon
But what is extremely clear, a couple things. You know, Jason Kidd did try to become the president. He's known for months. That wasn't going to happen. Okay. They're bringing in somebody who he was not involved in bringing in the organization to be the president. And very clearly Masaya Ujiri is the boss, period. There's no question about the power structure. Masaya Ujiri is the boss of all things basketball with the Dallas Mavericks.
- [69:33]
Tim Bontemps
I think if you want to sum today up very simply, Messiah Jiri has given the Mavericks a leadership and a presence and a command figure for a franchise that has desperately needed one for the better part of 18 months. And we'll see how it goes from here. He has to do the job as his epic man and it's not going to be an easy job to keep up with the spurs and the Thunder in particular. Even though you're starting off with an incredible foundation with Cooper, Flag and Hope, you know, from a Maverick standpoint, hopefully another top four pick in this year's loaded draft. But they have somebody with gravitas and a presence who can finally close the book on all of the Luca stuff and just move forward. And that's now all officially in the past. And Masai can cut a figure atop the organization that I think they really needed to finally move this thing forward. And now we'll see what happens next. It's going to be awfully interesting to see.
- [70:29]
Wendy
All right, thank you very much for sticking with us through this. Thank you definitely to our producers Mark and Jackson for piecing this all together. McMahon, Vince, Goodwill and Bontemps for bending into pretzels to get this put together. And thank you for watching and listening to the Hoop Collective. The playoffs motor on and we'll talk to you later this week.
- [70:49]
Ban McMahon
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