← Brian Windhorst & The Hoop Collective
Brian Windhorst & The Hoop Collective
OKC Makes Statement vs. Wemby, BIG AD Injury Update, All-Star Starters, Giannis’ Future
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Hoop Collective: OKC Makes Statement vs. Wemby, BIG AD Injury Update, All-Star Starters, Giannis’ Future
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- [00:01]
A
So good, so good, so good. New year new gear. Thousands of fresh active styles are at Nordstrom Rack stores now. Save on top brands like Nike, Puma and free people starting at just $35. How did I not know Rack has Adidas?
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B
There's always something new.
- [00:17]
A
Plus join the Nordy Club to shop new arrivals first. Unlock exclusive discounts and more. Great brands, great prices. That's why you rack. Hello and welcome to the Hoop Collective podcast. We talk about the NBA which you're doing on Wednesday morning slightly after midnight. Joining us from New York City where it is after midnight is Tim Bonteps.
- [00:45]
B
Hello everybody.
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A
He's headed down Philadelphia way I believe to see Cav's corner on Wednesday night.
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B
I want to see Cav's Corner on Wednesday. That is correct.
- [00:53]
A
A very like by the way the ESPN games that are coming up on Wednesday and Friday are both Cavs at Sixers. It's like games one and game two of a playoff series only not so.
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B
It'Ll be game one and game two of the play in if things don't change for the Cavs corner.
- [01:07]
C
Whoa.
- [01:08]
A
Well I guess it can't be.
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B
Two games aren't going to be in.
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A
The play in the way things are going for them.
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B
That is true. That is true.
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A
Joining us from Oklahoma City where the game of the night was tonight, just back from Paycom center is Bam McMahon.
- [01:20]
C
Howdy partners. We got a real rivalry because OKC is on the board against the spurs this season.
- [01:28]
A
Yeah, 20 point game. So full disclosure, I was at the Lakers Hawks for the entire pregame and then the first half where the Hawks are currently getting boat raced by the Lakers who are playing this game like It's a game one of a playoff series for them because Luka and LeBron are playing on the second night of a back to back dinged up and they brought Rui Hachimura back and they are not wanting to lose a fourth straight game and so they are playing like it. Um, so I'm going to have to yield largely to you McMahon and Bontemps. I had a conversation with someone was at the game but I sincere that Shay put up a nice night but please educate me on how this game went.
- [02:07]
C
I mean I would basically say that the Thunder had the kind of response that a defending championship team should under these circumstances which look win or lose they were going to wake up with a healthy lead for first place in the Western Conference. But they, they had lost three straight to the spurs and frankly been spanked around the last couple times, you know to the point where Shay Gildas Alexander on Christmas sat up there and said, hey, if a team beats you three times like that in a short span, they're better than you. And today he said it's never about the other team, it's always about us. He said, tonight's result tells us that when we play a certain way with a certain sense of urgency, a certain sense of force, aggressiveness and attention to detail, it doesn't matter who is on the other side. And they played like a team that's still on a near 70 win pace, that is still on pace to have the best point differential in NBA history. They were attacking and aggressive and effective offensively, but more than anything they played the kind of defense that we're used to seeing from OKC and not the sort of defense where all the spurs guards look so comfortable the last couple times they played.
- [03:14]
B
I thought this whole game was summed up by the third quarter where we see another competitive first half. You're thinking, hey, you know, spurs are hanging around on the road, they possibly going to take care, take another game here and really make us start going what's going on. Thunder have a 40 point third quarter. They totally set the tone coming out of halftime like we've seen them do so many times and get the place revved up with their defense wasn't like they shot the ball incredibly well in this game, but they got out and ran in transition. They forced turnovers. Chad Holmgren I thought was really good inside. Like you said McMahon, it, it just felt like the Thunder kind of got their swagger back, at least to me a little bit in that second half, especially after, you know, these last few weeks have been very uncharacteristic. Obviously it's not been, it's not been the way we've expected them to play, you know, going I think 8 and 6 in their last 14 games before this. But they come out, we all have been waiting to see how this game was going to go. They take pair of business, they get on the board, they, they really control the game in the second half and as a result, you know, I Jalen Williams, I saw, got asked after the game is this a rivalry? Said if you have to ask, it's not one but it's a rivalry and we're going to see at least one more game in the regular. We're going to see one more game in the regular season and I certainly hope we see a best seven in the playoffs in some round because I would like to see another potentially seven more of it.
- [04:45]
C
This year, and I'm not really asking at this point. It is at least a blossoming rivalry. Now look, do you need a playoff series, playoff series, plural, for it to be a full blown thing? Yes. But what I can tell you is this. And you know, dub fully admitted and really emphasize this. The Thunder know they have to play their best basketball to beat the spurs and vice versa. You know, these last three games have been lopsided, but two lopsided the spurs side, this one lopsided the Thunder side. There is a heightened sense of urgency when the spurs come to town now and Wimby is public enemy in okc. You know, there are some Thunder fans that would were accusing him of not playing ethical basketball, you know, saying he was flopping around a little bit tonight, that sort of thing. But you know, there's real fun sports venom is what I would say that's involved here and that it's great for the league.
- [05:47]
A
You don't often hear the word venom and fun in the same sentence, so I commend you.
- [05:51]
C
Trust me, I'm one who frequently uses that. I think my venom towards Bond Timps is fun.
- [05:58]
B
Yes, you do.
- [05:59]
C
It's very true. But seriously, like, hey, these people in okc, they don't like Wimby. By the way, post game, it was pretty funny. Wimby game's over, turns right around, heads to the locker room. He ain't shaking hands. He don't want to be. Buddy, buddy. He ain't friends with these guys. Jeremy Sohan, who barely broke a sweat, didn't get off the bench till garbage time. He wants to fight. People.
- [06:23]
A
Like it. All right, so from what I understand, and you guys correct me if you think I'm incorrect, that they factor, I'm not saying the difference maker, but a factor here in the previous three games, Jalen Williams, not J Dub, but J Will, the big man from Arkansas, was not available. He was dealing with an injury and he was. Now obviously the Thunder, are you using a host of players against Wembanyama. But he was not available to be used against him. And part of the physical nature that the Thunder were able to use tonight was that they had, even though they didn't have Isaiah Hartenstein, they did have J. Will. And you know, he had 10 rebounds, a couple of blocks. And I see in his 27 minutes or whatever, he was plus 30 and 10 rebounds, five assists, two blocks and 11 points in 23 minutes. And the folks who are professionals at this were telling me that he, his impact was felt in this game on the positive side. So that is a factor. I mean look, obviously the Thunder had a good shooting game and the spurs who were red hot shooting in the previous games didn't and that was all a factor. But I, I, it's, it seems like, you know, Kendrick Williams also I think.
- [07:44]
C
Had some Ken Rich. You always do the man wrong, Perkins.
- [07:51]
B
If that is true. And if you look at this game, you know, it's funny you bring up Jalen Williams like, you know, if you look at the 10 man rotation the Thunder played in this game, like obviously you've got Chet and Shay and Jalen Williams, the three stars of the team. And then Case and Wallace was a lottery pick, but Aaron Wiggins, second round pick was the other starter. And then off the bench. Yes, Alex Caruso is a guy that they signed as a premium free agent, but AJ Mitchell, second round pick, Isaiah Joe off waivers. Kenrich Williams throwing in a trade. Jalen Williams, second round pick like that. This was a game that I think to your point, Brian, Jalen Williams, the center is a real luxury for them. As a third big, that would be a clear rotation player for a lot of teams, if not just about any team that sort of goes in and out of the rotation. Oklahoma City, because they have both Chad Holmgren and as a Hardenstein to play the vast majority of the time. But he had a big impact today. And again, like there were contributions from up and down the roster and it was, it's, it was a reminder of the developmental machine the Thunder have been and the, the different ways they've been able to create and manufacture talent around their stars. And it's, you know, this, like I said, this, this was the first time in a while that the Thunder felt like the Thunder again. And yes, the spurs kind of came back to earth from a shooting standpoint against okc and you know, some of the other things broke in a positive direction for him. But it just like you see him even more than beat me, man, obviously, but it, the Thunder just been off kilter for a while and it, especially that second half, it really felt like that was the team we were used to seeing for the first, you know, two and a half months of the season before everything went sideways in mid December.
- [09:39]
C
Yeah, and look, the spurs beating him three times was a slap in the face. Getting blown out at home by the Hornets was a real like, okay, gotta get your stuff together type of, of moment. They've played three good games since then. They've looked, I mean, you know, they're right back on a 68 win pace now. So, you know, it's not like the sky was ever falling around here, but there were some real like, okay, hey, what are we doing? Are we going to be the team that we should be? Are we going to kind of, you know, know sleepwalk our way through a regular season and see where things are? And this is the team that the Thunder should be. And I think when you talk about the Thunder, obviously you're going to talk about Shea first. And you know, Jaylen J Dub is, was an all NBA player. So you know, you talk about stars. The Thunder first and foremost are a physically dominant team. Right. And that gets, you know, they are a team that gets up in you. And Lou Dort didn't play night. He's a guy who sets that tone. But you know Caruso, you know, they, they went away from a finesse player and Josh Giddey flipped him into Caruso. He's, he's physical. J Dub is a very physical player. He spent some time as he, as he often does, guarding up, guarding in this case way up Victor Wimbanyama. And what he's doing there is he's not letting Wimby get to his spots. You're not going to catch where you want it. You're going to catch it off that spot. Jalen Williams, you know he played a little bit in the Vegas cup game, 11 minutes. I assume his heels bother him because then he missed the next 13 games including the blowouts. But without him and without Hartenstein, you know, they were forced to play Brandon Carlson who's a nice two way player but he's a, he's a guy on a two way deal. Not the same sort of physical force. And Kenrich Williams, you know, I don't. What do they list him at? 6, 7 or so. He's another guy. Spent a lot of time on womenyama and they're just, look, if you're going to blow the whistle when you're wrestling for position, fine, but they're not going to let him get comfortable. He had only six shot attempts in the second half. Six shot attempts and I think one or two rebounds.
- [11:51]
A
The league has decided that the, the only way to really deal with Victor is to play basically physical power forwards and wings on him. You obviously, you know you're going to use a center a little bit, but that's the way the league is doing, is doing it. And frankly no, no one's going to match his size. Even Chet, okay, he can get close, but even Chet, you know, Victor can shoot over him.
- [12:14]
B
There was a play. I mean, the first play of the game, he gets isolated on Chet, goes around him and kind of, I don't know if he quite dunked it, but he basically dunked it over him. And then there was a couple possessions later where Victor kicks it out to Steph Castle in the corner. And Chet just goes, okay, I'm going to let Steph Castle, who isn't a very good shooter, shoot the ball. And Steph Castle throws a lob to the rim over Chet that Victor catches and dunks. And Chet was backing up to try to stop the lob. And this is a 7:1 guy who is an athletic guy who can get off the ground. So, like, at some point, as you said, Brian, you can't really match Victor's height. And the Celtics did the same thing in the game Saturday. They matched up Jordan Walsh for every second, basically that Victor was on the court and then brought doubles and did different things. And I do think, you know, because of Victor's penchant to want to put the ball on the floor, I do think that's the best way to try to combat him. But even still, he's so big and so athletically gifted that it oftentimes isn't going to matter anyway.
- [13:17]
A
Well, I think your best chance is when Victor tries to play like a wing. If Victor tries to play like Wilt Chamberlain, I don't think you can stop him.
- [13:25]
B
I think when he plays like a wing, that's been a difference this year when he has not been messing around with the ball as much, and that's when he's gotten himself in some trouble.
- [13:32]
A
Sometimes when he does play like a wing, it's very special. But when he plays like a center.
- [13:36]
B
That'S when he play finisher Victor, the play finisher cannot be stopped.
- [13:40]
A
All right, well, order mildly restored and we look forward to the fifth matchup.
- [13:45]
C
More Hoop Collective podcast after this.
- [13:49]
B
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- [14:16]
A
Go to your happy price price line. Okay, so we got an Anthony Davis injury update today from the Mavericks McMahon. And the Mavericks don't say what the injury is they just say I will read the update in its entirety. Dallas Mavericks forward center Anthony Davis met with his physician today and underwent a medical evaluation of his left hand. He does not require surgery and is expected to heal, emphasis mine to heal from the injury in approximately six weeks.
- [14:51]
B
All that's been said is he has ligament damage.
- [14:53]
A
Ligament damage was so I don't know.
- [14:56]
B
And he's wearing a sling for a hand injury. Like I don't know. It's just the whole thing is very strange.
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C
He's got a significant hand injury. He's the plan is to avoid surgery and it sounds like he will be at least cleared for basketball activity in late February, early March, which as you boys well know is weeks after, about a few weeks after the trade deadline.
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B
So that's when we say clear for basketball activities. Just just to clarify because I'm not honestly not sure about this, are we saying we think he could play then or that he's going to start doing stuff then?
- [15:27]
C
What I'm going to say is this with AD1, let's see if he remains on the Mavericks roster after the trade deadline and we're about to get to that. Two, if he is still on the Mavs roster once he is cleared. Whether there's a ramp up period or not, whether AD is back on the floor for the Mavericks, there's going to be a lot of factors involved. I'm talking about this season. There's going to be a lot of factors involved including what are the where are the Mavericks in the standings? What are the circumstances? Are they 15 games under? Well, it's probably not going to make a ton of sense to have him come back. By the way, I'm going to tell you the same thing about Kyrie Irving. Kyrie will be medically cleared at some point after the All Star break to return. Whether or not he plays this season is a related but different conversation. Right? It might be in the franchise's best interest for neither of those guys to play down the stretch or again if AD remains on the roster as they continue exploring the trade market for them. They could also decide, look, we do want and we do value a chance to evaluate ad, Kyrie and Cooper flag together down the stretch of the season, regardless of how that might impact their standing in the in the lottery odds. So those are all things to be sorted out. But before those are sorted out, whether AD remains on the roster needs to be sorted out and that is become a subject, I would say of some contentiousness.
- [17:06]
A
So if I didn't know any better And I don't. But I will tell you what the reaction in the league was to this press release is that this was written like a catalog copy in a catalog to sell merchandise. Fair, you know, heal. You know, it will heal in approximately six weeks. Like, you know, there was some, you know, significant concern he would need surgery. And they are, you know, obfuscating on the severity of the injury.
- [17:40]
C
Good word.
- [17:41]
B
We don't even know what the injury is exactly.
- [17:44]
C
So it's ligament damage in the hand. That's all.
- [17:46]
B
That's not.
- [17:47]
A
That's.
- [17:47]
B
I've never seen an injury to a star player cause them to miss multiple months of action where we have no idea what the injury is, other than just ligament damage. Ligament damage could be anything.
- [17:57]
A
This is. Right. This is being done for a reason. Okay. So the real thing is going to be the teams that might have interest in AD they're going to expect to have a much clearer picture on what that injury is. And so we don't. I don't. I wish I could tell you I knew. I wish I could say, well, I talked to my 11 sources and it's. It's a second degree sprain of the. Whatever, whatever, whatever ligament. I don't know.
- [18:24]
C
And I'll be honest with you, I have talked to several sources within the Mavericks. Obviously, I've really not poked and pried so much on the injury.
- [18:33]
B
More.
- [18:33]
C
I've more been focused on their approach as the trade deadline nears. And again, it is very clear that Rich Paul, who represents Anthony Davis, wants Anthony Davis traded before the deadline.
- [18:51]
A
And why would he want that?
- [18:52]
C
Because he believes it's in his best business interest. Because he has taken a. Well, we'll see from the Mavericks regarding an extension as a no. And there are teams where clearly Rich Paul considers it likely that AD would get the kind of extension that he's looking for when he becomes eligible in August. Now, look, the Mavericks are, you know, they were going to explore the trade market regardless. They have been. This is ongoing. They do not feel like they have to trade Anthony Davis. They are telling me and anybody who will listen that they're not trading AD Just to make a deal. They don't feel like they have to unload them. Oh, my gosh, the deadline's here. Gotta. Gotta take what the best offer is. They are insistent that they will only make a deal that makes sense for them. Depending, you know, and what exactly that threshold is. There's not clarity on that, but it's some combination of draft compensation, promising young talent and financial relief in the form of expiring salaries. Rich Paul is not going to bully us. That is a direct quote from a member of the Mavericks organization. Another member of the Mavericks organization referring to Patrick Dumont, the governor. Patrick's not going to sign off on a deal just to do a deal. Ownership doesn't feel any pressure to do an AD deal. A third source, Patrick has no problem going into next year and seeing with a healthy Kyrie and a healthy AD alongside Cooper Flagg and seeing what it looks like. So there's the trade deadline and maybe there's an AD deal to be made, maybe there or that they are comfortable making, maybe there's not. And then it can be like Kevin Durant where, okay, you restart things in the summer. But even then I don't believe they're going to feel like there's a ticking time bomb. There will be a new, you know, whatever the title is, president of basketball operations, lead decision maker, who they'd like to have in place for Cooper Flag's career. And maybe it makes sense just to wait for that person to arrive in Dallas and to handle this business. But they're also saying, listen, we're trying to be competitive next year when remember, their pick is not their own. It's top two protected, owned by Charlotte, so there's no benefit to them being bad. And they're saying, hey, if AD's on.
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A
The roster next year, their pick this year is their own. Their pick next year is not.
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C
This is the only year they benefit from being bad on Cooper Flag's rookie contract, but next year.
- [21:33]
A
Right, but bond temps, they have incentive. They do have incentive to do something now.
- [21:38]
B
Yeah, they need to do something period with the roster to lower their tax bill for next season because they're right now on pace to be close to $400 million team, which is something they were scheduled to do when they thought they're going to competing for championships, not when they're competing for ping pong balls in the lottery and then not having the draft pick for the next several years. Now, as far as the Anthony Dave situation goes, there's a lot of different ways they can handle that. For example, they could call say the Clippers and say Clippers, you have your 2027 plan. We have Klay Thompson, who's still a solid shooting guard. Give you some extra offense, you take him and give us Bogdan Bogdanovich back, who has a team option for next year. Wipe off the money. And by the way, you can maybe help us get rid of D' Angelo Russell too. And we save $23 million off our books for next year and then all of a sudden you're down around the luxury tax line and the pressure to do something, to just save money is off the board. There's just one way you can do it. Now, as far as the Anthony Davis situation, I understand the Rich Paul position and that he thinks there's a chance of getting him somewhere else and getting an extension somewhere else. I think it would be wildly irresponsible of any team to trade for Anthony Davis who has played in 29 out of I believe 60, 70 some games.
- [22:50]
C
76 games, 29 since the early February trade when he was sent to Dallas in the Luka Don and he's missed.
- [22:57]
B
I believe 47 games. So 29 out of 76 games he's been able, he's been on the court to play and he frankly hasn't been. He's been good, but he hasn't been as good as he's been in the past. He's had a billion injuries as we've talked about before. He's entering his mid-30s. We just have gone through all of these exercises with all of these high priced players that all of them have very little trade value. And we're going to now extend Anthony Davis after trading for him till he's 37, 38 years old. Like that would be crazy to do. I actually think the best chance for Anthony Davis to get a long term contract off this contract is if he isn't traded. If he's in Dallas next year and you could construct a scenario where you have Kyrie Irving, Cooper flag Anthony Davis, insert high lottery pick here. Max Christie is good, they have depth around them, they, they could have a pretty good team next year. And if Anthony Davis has an all NBA season next year, which if he stays on the court he's more than capable of doing, then perhaps he gets a turn down to player option and sign a three year deal for a lot of money and they have an extended window with him and Kyrie in Dallas. That's not what I would do if I was running the Mavericks. But like I think there is a world where that could happen. But what I do think now is this injury has happened at a time where for all those things you said, McMahon, I think this allows the Mavericks to just pause this whole situation and just see where things go. And I think it would be very prudent of them to just let this play out. See where the ping pong balls fall, see where the summer looks get to the summer when a Lot more teams have the ability to make trades. A lot more teams could maybe come into the picture to maybe give you more stuff to get Davis. Teams could lose in the playoffs and be disappointed. Maybe somebody wants to try to make a big swing to change their roster. Maybe all kinds of circumstances could change between now and July. Right. So I. If I was advising the Mavericks right now with the way this has all played out, I would just say, wait, like you said, McMahon, get your new front office in place or pick Matt Riccardi and Michael for whatever they're going to do. Make a decision on who's going to make these decisions, then let them make the decisions and start focusing on building the team around Cooper Flag and don't rush into some trade right now just to do it when I think we'd all agree. The only thing that I think we could definitively say is I can't see how Anthony Davis's trade value is going to be high at all right now when he's got an injury and all this other stuff going on.
- [25:27]
A
Because all that, that beautiful theory and that beautiful presentation you made, I'll sign off on all of it, but I'll go to the front of it, which is just all that stuff. And also, Anthony Davis's trade value is just not good right now. It's not good because he's owed 120 million over the next two years. It's not good because of his injury. It's not good because teams in the aprons are wary about, you know, having a guy who's weighing down their books, who's underperforming because of injury or age. It's not good because, you know, there's only so many teams that can assemble a trade that for a player that makes over $50 million, like, there's. There's. There's not good because of the uncertainty of his injury this year. There's a hundred reasons why trading Anthony Davis now doesn't make a ton of sense. The only reason really to do it is to clear the decks for Cooper. And so really, I think that the trade that they would have to make to truly move AD right now would be a trade where they just get off the contract.
- [26:30]
B
Well, and listen out of. If they could get out of $120 million for free, I think you'd have to think about it. But I also would understand why they wouldn't do that. And there's all sorts of human reasons why the people who made the Luka Doncic trade, obviously, including Patrick Dumont, are not a year later going to want to do a trade to just get out of the money for the centerpiece of the trade. So, like, I understand why that would not be a trade that would happen theory, at least in a pretty high likelihood between now and February 5th.
- [27:03]
C
And look, they're not just going to hit pause like, the Mavericks are motivated to make a good Anthony Davis trade. That's why they've been exploring the market. That's why they continue to do it. They're taking calls, they're making calls. You know, there's teams that are even interested in him as the quote, predict agency type of acquisition, like we saw with, with Brandon Ingram. So they're going to explore those. But they're, they're motivated to make a good Anthony Davis deal. Not just right, an Anthony Davis deal.
- [27:36]
A
Like, oh, can you make a good deal right now, McMahon? I don't think you can.
- [27:39]
B
And I'll be honest, I don't think, I don't think. I didn't think they could.
- [27:42]
C
I didn't think they could before this hand injury.
- [27:46]
A
I would generally.
- [27:47]
B
We've said as much.
- [27:48]
C
I said it was going to be very difficult and now it has become more difficult. If you're asking me what do, like, if, if you make me put a dollar down on what I think's going to happen, I think AD will be on the roster at the end of the season and then the process continues. But I'm not going to be shocked if we're over at the beautiful Sands Resort in Macau, China. I think I pronounced that correctly. And AD and AD is on, you know, is on the roster next year when again, the Mavericks hope to be competitive next year. They have Cooper Flag, they have the guy they want to build around. But this is not going to be your traditional rebuild because it cannot be your traditional rebuild because of all the first round capital from 27 to 30.
- [28:37]
A
It doesn't have to be because they already have the crown jewel of a rebuild which.
- [28:41]
B
Exactly.
- [28:42]
C
Well, well, they have to get a guy to pair with him this year.
- [28:46]
B
Exactly. If they. And, and that's where the AD injury could have really, it really couldn't have come at a better time, in my opinion, because it does. Like, yes, you're right, big man. If they can make a good trade, sure make a good trade now. But they don't have to make a trade which if he was healthy, especially because they're trying to lose games the rest of the year. They, there have been a lot more pressure to do something now to move on from him, to allow yourself the best chance to get the high level player in May in the lottery and then in June in the draft where now they might get the high level player in May in the lottery, in June in the draft and then still have Kyrie Irving and Anthony Davis and you could in theory roll into next year. And by the way, like, for as disastrous as the Mavericks have been, you could just have to go down I95 to where I'm going to be Wednesday night. Where the Sixers had the season from hell last year and they get the third pick in the draft, they get BJ Edgecombe, they have, they, you know, they get everybody back healthy and like. Are the Sixers going to win the title this year? I highly doubt it. I certainly don't expect it. They could be a team that makes a run in the east playoffs, but they're having a fun season and they're in the top four in the east and there's positive momentum around the franchise and it all goes back to the ping pong balls bouncing the right way and coupling. Tyrese Maxey and VG Edge come with the old guys and yes, Tyrese Maxey's farther along in his career, but if the Mavericks get Darren Peterson or A.J. deBancer or Cameron Boozer or Caleb Wilson or Mikhail Brown, any of these guys at the top of this draft and it's hey, we've got that guy in Cooper Flag and then we've got Kyrie Irving and Anthony Davis, that's essentially the situation the Sixers are in. And that looks pretty good right now. And if you told the Mavericks a year from now they're in the top six in the west and they've got those two guys, I don't know, McMahon, I'm pretty sure Patrick Dumont and company would be very happy to sign up with two young guys and those two guys on a team that's going to be in the top six in the West.
- [30:44]
C
Well, in the simple fact of the matter is the Mavericks right now without Kyrie Irving playing a second are an okay team. When Anthony Davis is on the floor, they're a.500 team. 10 and 10. He's played half the games this year. They are 5 and 15 when he doesn't play. So him not playing the rest of the year would drastically increase the odds of them getting another foundation piece to pair with Cooper Flag, who it stands to reason is going to is a really good player now and is going to be better next season. So you know the path towards the I'm, I look to contend in the.
- [31:22]
A
West.
- [31:24]
C
That'S going to be tough. But the path towards the Mavericks being a playoff team next year, it's not that hard to see.
- [31:31]
B
Yeah, it's not like the bottom of the west playoff picture is exactly full of juggernauts at the moment.
- [31:36]
A
Yeah, well, there's more to come on this. All right, through the magic of television and planning, we're about to go back in time. You'll see when you come back on the Hoop Collective.
- [31:45]
C
More Hoop Collective podcast after this. Looking to create the bath you've always dreamed of without all the hassle? The Home Depot makes it easier. Shop fully styled rooms and curated collections to bring your vision to life. Use digital tools to preview flooring and finishes in your space.
- [32:06]
A
And get everything you need, from tubs.
- [32:08]
B
To tile, delivered fast and priced right.
- [32:12]
C
The Home Depot Dream Baths built here.
- [32:19]
A
Saving on your education should be a right, not a competition. At University of Phoenix, you'll get the best scholarship or savings you qualify for. Simple as that. Explore scholarship options at University of Phoenix. You guys are all smarter than us. We this is now earlier in the day. We have no idea what happened in that Thunder spurs game. So it's the technique of the world of podcasts. All right, Due on Wednesday. I know because I've gotten three reminder emails about it is the ballots for the media and I assume the players. Don't you think the players is due on Wednesday.
- [33:01]
B
All voting for fans, players and media concludes Wednesday night at midnight.
- [33:06]
A
Tonight at midnight. So just in case you need a reminder, the fans get 50% of the vote. The players vote is worth 25%. The media vote is worth 25%. They exist that way to counterbalance each other. And so our ballots are due. And so Bontemps, you've got a ballot. I've got a ballot, McMahon. Maybe next year.
- [33:30]
C
Nope. Because if they had a ballot, I'd be like a lot of players. They give me one, I'd have one vote for being an All Star. Like, that's my favorite part of the whole process is going through and seeing the dozens of players who have a single vote for All Stars. Wonder who gave those to that guy?
- [33:46]
A
Because they're. Or because they're like doing it in the locker room before the game and they're all joking around or on the bus or whatever. And they're all joking around. But I'm sure a lot of people take it seriously. I know Bontemps is one that takes it seriously. All right, let's start in the Eastern.
- [33:57]
C
Botems takes everything seriously.
- [33:59]
B
Hey, I Fill out a ballot. I'm going to fill out a ballot. I fill out a whole full roster for a piece on Dotcom on Wednesday.
- [34:07]
C
There you go.
- [34:08]
A
Oh, very good. I'm not ready to name my reserves. I have another week, so I can.
- [34:14]
B
Tell you who my reserves are as we go along. And you guys can make fun of me like you often do anyway, so.
- [34:19]
A
Well, why don't we just. Yeah, you've never made fun of anybody. Why don't we just wait and talk about it in a week? Why would you say it now? Why would you give it away? Oh, because it's going to be on espn.
- [34:29]
B
Because the editors asked me to write a full All Star column for Wednesday, so I said, okay, well, I'm not.
- [34:35]
A
Prepared to debate you on some of these. As a reminder, that goes without saying. It happens all the time. As a reminder, this year the ballot does not have positions. You don't have to pick a starting center.
- [34:49]
B
You can pick starters or reserves. No positions at all, right?
- [34:52]
A
Has it been that way for reserves?
- [34:56]
B
It's been two backcourt and three front court. And then two wild cards. Two backcourt, three front court starters. Same for the reserves, plus two wild cards the last several years. What says they got rid of centers now?
- [35:07]
A
Well, it's all wild cards now, baby.
- [35:09]
C
All wild cards. And then we got to check passports and backgrounds and all kinds of stuff to figure it out.
- [35:15]
A
Yeah, because he's got the international team.
- [35:17]
B
Everybody's got to have ballot factored in. That, too. I was doing math on who played where when I got done. It's an interesting exercise.
- [35:25]
A
Bond temps. What will your ballot that you'll be submitting to Ernst and Young, the official portal. What will it look like tomorrow?
- [35:33]
B
Today? Well, let's start with the east, right? I think Jackson wants us to go conference by conference. So in the east, he's the boss. We had Yaz Saidokupo, big surprise. Kate Cunningham, Jalen Brunson, Tyrese Maxey. And then the one debate spot I had was between Donovan Mitchell and Jaylen Brown. And ultimately I went with Jaylen Brown due to the pretty significant difference in how their teams are performing.
- [36:00]
A
That is similar to the way the voting. The voting. The most recent dispatches have all those guys, except for Jaylen Brown, is behind Donovan Mitchell. But the voting was tight. It was like less than 20,000 votes. So it's possible that Jalen, especially with recently discussing how he wasn't getting enough attention. Meanwhile, the Cavs were leaving. The last image for all the voters was their home loss to The Jazz. So I don't want to say that's on equal footing there, but it's very possible that the voters could go that way, too. McMahon, do you debate anything that we just saw, we just heard there from Bontemps?
- [36:42]
C
Not really. But if we're going to factor in standings and actually what's happened on the floor this season, I would say, why isn't Giannis in the discussion about who to leave out?
- [36:52]
B
Because Giannis is the best player and is having a monster season. Like, to me, Jalen Brown and Donovan Mitchell are 6 or 1 and a half dozen of the other in terms of who gets in. So you have to pick for some reason. And I gave the nod to the way Jalen and the Celtics have, I would say, overperformed compared to Donovan and the Cavs. Underperforming. If you want to have Giannis, nod in your starting lineup for that. Like, I get it, all these guys have crazy numbers, but I just think Giannis is pretty clear.
- [37:20]
A
He just wants to use your logic against you. He doesn't really want Giannis.
- [37:23]
C
Yeah. Just being a contrarian now. Also, also, Bon Tim's very smart, very smooth. Went with a guy who doesn't complain as loudly, you know, or went with the. I'm sorry, the. He went with a louder complainer over the guy who's, you know, a little.
- [37:41]
B
Donovan Mitchell. Donovan Mitchell's probably going to be starting in the All Star Game anyway because of these insane new rules that we have for how the game is.
- [37:48]
A
Yeah, there's going to be. How many starters are going to be. There's going to be. Theoretically, there's going to be 15 starters.
- [37:53]
B
15 starters. So I'm sure Donovan will wind up starting for one of the two American teams.
- [37:57]
A
Yeah, that's the thing.
- [37:58]
C
Like, but there's only 10 guys who are. Who are honored as starters. The whole thing is weird.
- [38:05]
A
Do you get, like, a slightly different jersey? Like, if you're honored, like, you get like a. Like a set of a goal?
- [38:11]
C
No, what's happening is this. There's going to be, like, the starters get the All Star jerseys, and then the five guys who are going to be starters but are not announced as starters, they're on the team that Skins. It's. There's a team that's got, you know, jerseys that are colors, and then they've got a white jersey and then a skin. So shirts and skins. That's the way this thing's going.
- [38:32]
A
Let me tell you what's really sad. I don't know if he's joking. Like, it's so. I know you're kidding, but, like, for a second I was until you started saying shirts and skins. I am so unclear on the rules here. This is the whole thing is whether you're being honored as an All Star. That's what we're talking about. We're not talking about the game.
- [38:50]
B
Well, just wait till we get through the whole roster and we're doing math at the end to add extra players, which is what probably is going to be happening to make the numbers.
- [38:58]
A
So I wish that I could put up a fight here and really get into it. It would be better podcasting if there was disagreement.
- [39:06]
B
You could still put up a fight. I can rip through it quick. So, Donald Mitzvah.
- [39:10]
A
No, I don't want you to give your reserves. I want to save that for another podcast.
- [39:14]
B
Yeah, the reserves are going to be out on Wednesday. You can do your own reserves.
- [39:18]
A
No, but not everybody reads everything that you write.
- [39:21]
B
Okay. I mean, we don't have to do it. It just seems like we could right now. But whatever you want go through that.
- [39:28]
C
So there's only one international player among your east starters, is that correct?
- [39:33]
B
That's correct.
- [39:34]
A
Okay. I, by the way, I have Jalen fifth on my ballot too, ahead of Donovan. Not necessarily because of anything against Donovan or the Cavs. I just think Jalen's two way play has been very good and you know, the Cavs have underperformed a little bit. And if you're looking for a tiebreaker, like, I think that's it, there's six.
- [39:54]
B
Guys who deserve to start.
- [39:56]
A
I will say this. I want to. And I'm. And I know I'm opening myself up to mockery here because I want to add one more player here. I want to name check one more player. And, and you'd be saying, well, just put them on your reserves. But I'm not ready to save my reserves. Pascal Siakam made his third game winner of the year on Monday night and he has been putting up really good numbers. And the Pacers have won three games in a row and I just. He's not going to make my starting lineup. But like Pascal Siakam, I'm tipping myself.
- [40:27]
B
Pascal Siakam is on my all Star team.
- [40:29]
C
I just opened up the standings on my ESPN app and the Eastern Conference pops up and I have to scroll down to find the Pacers.
- [40:37]
A
Well, the Pacers have. How many have they. What do they have? Nine wins.
- [40:41]
B
They're now 9 and 31. They were. They were 6 and 31. Before they won their last three, including getting Rick Carlisle his 1,000th victory the.
- [40:49]
C
Other night in Charlotte after a 13 game. Wait.
- [40:53]
B
Yeah, but Pascal. Pascal's had an awesome year and that the. The last couple spots in the east were tough to choose from. I couldn't really overlook his numbers at that point.
- [41:05]
A
Did you.
- [41:05]
C
Did you mention maxi? Did I doze?
- [41:08]
B
Yes.
- [41:08]
C
Okay.
- [41:09]
B
He did those. He's in my starting five.
- [41:11]
C
Scotty Barnes, these guys.
- [41:14]
B
Scotty Barnes.
- [41:15]
A
Now you're doing the reserves. McMahon, like you brought up, Pascal Siakam was on the last because he just hit a second game winner in a week.
- [41:22]
B
If I had just ran through my reserves, it would have been a very smooth. It would have been a much smoother thing.
- [41:27]
A
I'm not ready to have the reserves conversation.
- [41:29]
C
Okay, then why are you talking about a guy who's on a last place.
- [41:32]
B
Team that's a reserve?
- [41:33]
A
Well, just say they've got nine wins.
- [41:34]
B
Great question. McMahon.
- [41:36]
A
And I think he's hit like there was. I text somebody in Indiana today and they said he's actually got four game winners. I could only find three, but let's just say for the sake of argument, it's four. It's four of their nine games. He's apparently hit the game winner.
- [41:47]
B
Wow.
- [41:47]
C
That means if he was on. If he was on the Pistons, he'd probably have 12 or 13 by now.
- [41:54]
A
All right, Western Conference Bontemps, who will be on your official ballot?
- [42:01]
B
Same as the East. There were four really easy ones. Nikola Jokic, Luka Doncic. Shay gives Alexander and Victor Wembanyama. The only real debate for me was between Stephen Curry and Anthony Edwards for the final spot and ultimately went with Ant. I think he's a little more consistent. Obviously a better two way player. Seth has had a great year. Just been a little bit off from where he was, I would say, a year ago. And again, I would say, like Donovan Mitchell, there are six guys who are deserving starters. But one of them isn't. And I will not be voting for Steph.
- [42:34]
C
Well, and I hear that I would also vote for Ant. Steph will win the starting spot because Steph will finish significantly higher in the fan vote and probably even the player vote. I do think Ant, based on his performance and his team's performance this season, is more deserving. But I'm not going to lose any sleep that Steph gets the nod.
- [42:57]
B
I think they're one spot apart right now. Right.
- [43:00]
A
Steph's in third.
- [43:02]
B
Oh, he is. I was thinking he was in fifth. My. That's My bad.
- [43:04]
A
No, in the recent. In the most recent. I mean. I mean, he could go to fifth in the. In the Virginia.
- [43:08]
B
No, that's right. He's third. Yeah. So he'll. So he'll be the. He'll be the other starter then.
- [43:12]
A
Because I think using your guys, I might. I always listen to your guys's work and, you know, you guys believe if a player misses a couple games, he should be invalid for rewards.
- [43:21]
C
MVP is a little different than.
- [43:23]
A
Should I take Jokic out? I mean, you know, he's only having one of the greatest season.
- [43:26]
B
Half the guys I wish about have missed games. So.
- [43:31]
A
Did you guys see the game winner that Ant hit on Sunday? We did around Victor Wembanyama to secure that win.
- [43:40]
B
Sure did.
- [43:41]
C
Yeah. We don't live in Omaha. We can watch Timberwolves games.
- [43:43]
A
Well, I couldn't watch it live. I had to watch it on replay. It was like, low key. One of the most impressive things I've seen this year because Victor got isolated out on him and he talked about it after the game. He was like. I said, I don't know what I'm supposed to do here. He's looking up at him like, what am I supposed to do? And he was able to get. He was able to drive, which driving past Victor isn't the problem if you're a guard. The problem is getting the shot around those arms, even at the rim, like, it's almost impossible. And he was able to create this angle. He banked it in, didn't he?
- [44:22]
B
He, like, created.
- [44:24]
C
It was a floater off the glass.
- [44:26]
A
Really tight angle to get it in. He somehow got it around that arm and got it off the glass to get in for the game winner. I was damn impressed with that basket. I was like, wow. What? Considering the situation, I thought it was one, you know, out of all the great Ant baskets you see, which. The guy just reigns in threes. And frankly, that's one of the things about this, about Victor or about Ant that's so impressive, is just how great of a three point shooter he's become.
- [44:53]
C
No, he has become. I mean, last year he led the league in threes made. He's become not just a volume three point shooter, but an efficient volume three point shooter who still is built like a linebacker and one of the most explosive players in the league off the dribble. So, yeah, I mean, he's, He's. He's a scoring machine who. Ant doesn't always bring his full intensity on defense, but is certainly capable of dialing it up. And being one of the toughest perimeter defenders in the league as well.
- [45:29]
A
Yeah. So I would put. I'm putting Jokic first on my ballot, just symbolically, but I would agree with you. Bon Temps, I'm going to have Ant on there, and whether or not he starts in a game or not, he'll. Man, I don't know what color jersey he gets.
- [45:44]
B
I don't know. Again, he'll be starting for one of the two teams.
- [45:47]
A
I understand. I know.
- [45:48]
B
See which one he is.
- [45:50]
C
Any Yokich over Shea conversation, I gotta wait until. This ain't my background to have that. If we're going to be blunt and.
- [45:56]
A
Honest, why was there people standing in the room, like, watching?
- [46:00]
C
There was just a guy tweaking the background here. You know, they got this place. Hey, this is the Thunder. They got this place bugged. I can guarantee you now is true.
- [46:08]
A
True or false that you are participating in Dry January. Is that true?
- [46:13]
C
Yes. It was not a volunteer. It's kind of like my boarding school experience. It wasn't voluntary, but.
- [46:18]
A
Are you saying your boarding school was dry? I don't know if I believe that.
- [46:23]
C
Listen, that's all.
- [46:25]
B
The parents are being shipped off to Maine, I think is the question is separate podcast.
- [46:30]
A
The question is, did you visit the the Tiki while you were in okc?
- [46:34]
C
It's seasonal. Anyways, it's closed.
- [46:36]
A
Oh, okay.
- [46:37]
C
Well, you can't sit at a tiki bar when you know your little tikis will get all, like, frozen right now.
- [46:44]
A
All right, well, you know, there's areas that are undercover and, you know the owner. So we should note now that we're back in the evening that it was a rough night for the Bucks at home. They just came back from the west coast, and it's long been said that the first game home after a long trip feels like the last road game of the trip. And I guess you could blame that on that. But the Wolves came in and obliterated the Milwaukee Bucks by 33. How big was the lead at one point?
- [47:14]
B
Here's all you got to say about this game. So last game the Bucks played of their trip was in Denver. No Nicole Jokic, no Jamal Murray. Bucks are playing their guys. Bucks lose the game. Not a great loss, even in.
- [47:26]
C
Wait, what did Ant do tonight?
- [47:28]
B
Well, hold on, I'm getting to that.
- [47:29]
C
Okay.
- [47:30]
B
They come home to play Minnesota. Rudy Gobert gets suspended for flaker foul points, which, by the way, is going to be a problem going forward. Anytime he gets a flake foul the rest of the season, he's going to be suspended for at least a game, if not two. So that's something to monitor since we're only halfway through the season and he's already getting suspense earliest. I can never remember a guy getting flagged and foul points. Now on top of that, Anthony Edwards doesn't play. I don't remember if he had a foot issue he's been dealing with or something. So he bottom line is neither Anthony Edwards nor Rudy Gobert, their two best players this season, are playing. This would seem like a game that would be a good game for the Bucks coming home to get a win in. Not only do the Bucks lose by 33, the Bucs were down by 31 at halftime and we're getting booed off the court at home. So in the third quarter of this game, Giannis is on the court doing a double thumbs down and booing back at the fans at home, which is something he has been doing on the road when he's been booed. So he got asked after the game, hey, what was the deal with the booing after the game? Here's what he said. I've never been a part of that, have I? I don't think so. This for Merrick, name of the athletic something new for me, it doesn't change. It's the same thing. It doesn't matter. I thrive through adversity. I thrive when people don't believe in me. It doesn't matter if I'm on the road, if I'm at home, if I'm at a family dinner, if I'm at the practice facility with my teammates, it doesn't really matter. So yeah, I've never been a part of something like that before. So it was something new for me. I like it, though. I love it. He then got asked a follow up by Laurie Nichol, who's the longtime columnist at the Journal Sentinel, and he said, I was definitely booing backed. When I get booed, I boo back. I've been doing that all season. You guys haven't been me with on. You guys haven't been with me on the road. Whenever I get booed, I boo back. And when he was when he was reminded that, well, Giannis, this is a home game, not a road game, he had this to say, it does not matter. I play for my teammates. I play basketball for myself and my family. When people don't believe in me, I don't tend to be with them, I tend to be against them. I tend to do what I'm here to do, what I'm good At. I think I'm like a maverick. I've always been that way, so.
- [49:51]
C
Oh, they'll give the idea and make you a maverick.
- [49:54]
B
That's right.
- [49:54]
A
Breaking news.
- [49:55]
B
It doesn't matter if I'm at home or away.
- [49:58]
A
I'm a maverick, Giannis.
- [49:59]
B
That's right. It doesn't matter if I'm at home or away. But, yeah, I've never been a part of something like that before, and I don't think it's fair. I don't. But everybody has their opinion to do what they want to do. I'm not going to tell them what to do and how they should act when we don't play hard or when we lose games or when we're not where we're supposed to be. And I don't think anybody has the right to tell me what or how I should act on the basketball court after I've been here 13 years and I'm basically the all time leader in everything, so.
- [50:30]
C
Passive aggressiveness.
- [50:31]
B
By the way, here's what I would say. We are three weeks before the trade deadline. I have said the whole time, I don't think Giannis has asked for a trade. I think he's going to be on the team on February 6th. I would still say that to be true. However, this scenario that is playing out is the one scenario where you could at least plausibly see it getting to that point where the bucks remain in 11th place in the Eastern Conference. Their team is really struggling. They are losing games. They should be winning against either depleted teams or not very good teams. And the games they are winning, they wheezed through a game again in Sacramento where the Kings were trying desperately to give them the game and eventually did. This is as bad as it really could be in Milwaukee this year. And it's going to be an awfully interesting three weeks between now and the trade deadline, because I can't imagine the Bucks who've been trying to make this team better are going to be sitting here after this going well. We're close. Got to slow down on that. Yeah, like, I mean, yeah, the, the.
- [51:36]
A
The booing thing was.
- [51:36]
B
That was a bad loss.
- [51:38]
A
The booing thing is interesting, but not super relevant. It's a very interesting statement by Giannis. What's relevant is 17 and 23.
- [51:46]
B
Yes.
- [51:47]
A
At the 40 game mark. You know, basically half point of the season and never in the Giannis competition. You know, Giannis basically gained full consciousness. What, maybe year three or year four?
- [51:58]
B
Yeah, about 10 years.
- [51:59]
A
They've never been in this position since so, you know, and Giannis is 30. He's not 37. So, you know, that's. Those are the realities that they have. And everybody can, can parse whatever want they want from. From. From various interviews and various words. And you can, you know, make passive aggressive comments. You can, you know, you know, make statements that, you know, are creatively worded so that everybody seems everything, everything's fine. But 17 and 23 is very plain. That's. That's not debatable.
- [52:31]
B
In 25 games Giannis has played on the court, this should be including tonight's game, they have an offensive rating of 124.2, a defensive rating of 113.2, and a net rating of 10.9. When he's on the court, that's all really good. Really good across the board. When he is off the court, 39 games, 11:52 minutes, they have an offensive rating of 105.5, a defensive rating of 115.6. They have a negative 10.1 net rating. There is a 21 point swing when Giannis is on the court compared to when he's on the bench. And that's because the roster isn't good, which is what we've been saying going back to the summer. They just don't have a very good team. And again, they have very limited trade assets to change that between now and February 5th. I know they're going to try like hell to do so because that's been the M.O. of John Horst. He's been extraordinarily aggressive year after year. He has made moves to improve the team and try to get talent and move things around, but there's only so many moves they can make and, you know, like they trade for Zach Levine or John Morant or one of these guys. I do not see the overall issues really changing all that much from where they are right now.
- [53:45]
A
McMahon. No time for the tiki tonight. You got to get back to. You got to get back to work.
- [53:51]
C
It's seasonal, not open, dry January. We've gone over this.
- [53:55]
A
All right, very good. All right, Bontemps, enjoy the trip to Philly, and thank you very much to Jackson, Devon and Mark for putting the show together, which we stitched together for many hours today, and various challenges. And thank you for listening and watching to the Hoop Collective. We'll talk to you later this week.
- [54:15]
C
Adios, amigos.