OKC Set Up For Dynasty? Best RFA’s Remaining & LeBron’s Lakers Future

Summary

Podcast Summary: Brian Windhorst & The Hoop Collective – "OKC Set Up For Dynasty? Best RFA’s Remaining & LeBron’s Lakers Future"

Release Date: July 15, 2025

In this episode of "Brian Windhorst & The Hoop Collective," hosts Brian Windhorst and Tim MacMahon delve deep into the current dynamics shaping the NBA landscape. The discussion primarily revolves around the Oklahoma City Thunder's strategic moves, the state of restricted free agents (RFAs), and the evolving future of the Los Angeles Lakers anchored by LeBron James.

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1. Oklahoma City Thunder: Building a Potential Dynasty

Brian Windhorst kicks off the conversation by highlighting the Thunder's recent significant acquisitions:

• Signings of Jalen Williams and Chet Holmgren:
  At [00:47], Windhorst announces that the Thunder have officially signed both Williams and Holmgren. These signings are pivotal, as they secure the team's championship core for the next five years. Notably, both players received maximum contracts without opt-outs, demonstrating the team's commitment. Holmgren's contract, mentioned at [03:20], surpasses the previous record for the largest average annual value in NBA history until Devin Booker's deal.

• Financial Implications:
  The trio is set to cost the Thunder approximately $59 million combined this upcoming season ([07:08]). While this is a hefty investment, Windhorst emphasizes that the Thunder are currently not burdened by luxury taxes, allowing them financial flexibility to compete without immediate fiscal strain.

Guest Insights – Bontemps:
Adding depth, Bontemps underscores the strategic advantage of securing three star-level players under contract while maintaining potential flexibility for future roster adjustments. At [04:45], he notes,

“Having three under 26 and star-level players under contract for the rest of the decade is a pretty awesome place to be.”

Contract Outlook:
Looking ahead, Windhorst breaks down the financial trajectory for the Thunder:

• Next Season (2026-27): The combined contracts of Holmgren and Williams will escalate to $120 million, still deemed manageable and comparable to top-tier teams like the Boston Celtics, who have set high salary benchmarks.
• Subsequent Years (2027-28): The trio's contracts could surge to $150 million, presenting challenges in renegotiations and potential roster overhauls.

Strategic Positioning:
Windhorst draws parallels with the Celtics' recent championships, suggesting that the Thunder might face similar pressures but are better positioned due to their early draft selections and young core. He posits that:

"The Thunder are bringing in lottery guys... They have the potential to compete for their championship without paying the luxury tax."

2. Restricted Free Agents: Current Landscape and Future Prospects

The discussion transitions to the broader RFA market, with a focus on the 2021 draft class and its impact on team dynamics.

Overview of RFA Contracts:
At [34:23], Windhorst outlines the financial commitments of various RFAs:

• Max Contracts: Players like Evan Mobley, Scotty Barnes, Franz Wagner, and others have secured maximum deals, reflecting their perceived value in the league.
• Mid-Level and Below: Players such as Josh Giddey, Jonathan Kuminga, and Quentin Grimes face pivotal decisions regarding qualifying offers and potential extensions.

Case Studies:

• Quentin Grimes ([39:07]):
  With a qualifying offer of $8.7 million, Bontemps anticipates Grimes will likely sign a two to three-year deal slightly above the mid-level, considering his performance with Philadelphia.

• Josh Giddey ([42:00]):
  Facing an $11 million qualifying offer, Giddey's situation is nuanced. While he has demonstrated significant growth, the Chicago Bulls may opt for a mid-level extension to maintain cap flexibility, potentially offering him a two to three-year deal in the $20-25 million range.

• Jonathan Kuminga ([48:25]):
  The Golden State Warriors are grappling with Kuminga's fit within their system. Given the team's focus on avoiding second-round apron restrictions, a shorter-term deal that allows for potential trade flexibility is anticipated.

Strategic Implications:
The RFAs represent both opportunities and challenges for teams navigating the new Collective Bargaining Agreement (CBA). Windhorst emphasizes the importance of strategic negotiations to balance team chemistry and financial prudence, especially in a marketplace constrained by limited cap space.

3. San Antonio Spurs: Victor Wembanyama’s Return and Team Dynamics

Victor Wembanyama’s Health Update ([19:29]):
The Spurs are abuzz with news that Victor Wembanyama has been cleared to resume basketball activities after addressing health concerns. Vontemps highlights:

“He has been cleared to resume basketball activities,”
indicating a positive outlook for Wembanyama's participation in the upcoming season and potentially EuroBasket for France.

Team Roster and Strategic Moves:
The Spurs have been actively reshaping their roster, including:

• Dylan Harper’s Summer League Performance ([23:38]):
  Harper showcased his prowess with 16 points in 18:19 minutes, signaling his potential impact as a high draft pick.

• Coaching and Leadership Changes ([29:03]):
  With Sean Sweeney stepping into a coaching role under Mitch Johnson, the Spurs are poised for a competitive push in the challenging Western Conference.

Future Projections:
The Spurs aim to leverage their young talent and strategic signings to establish themselves as a formidable contender. Discussions centered around the balance between veteran leadership and emerging stars, with Windhorst predicting:

“They are very well positioned.”

4. Los Angeles Lakers: Navigating LeBron James and Luka Doncic’s Future

The latter part of the discussion shifts focus to one of the NBA's most storied franchises—the Los Angeles Lakers—and their ongoing transition from a LeBron James-centric team to integrating Luka Doncic.

Current Situation ([52:17]):
Windhorst references a Ramona Shelburne and his co-author's story highlighting the Lakers’ delicate balance:

“The Lakers are in position to navigate moving from a LeBron James-centric team to a Luka Doncic-centric team.”

Challenges:

• Age vs. Potential:
  Balancing the longevity and production of a 40-year-old LeBron James with nurturing the 27-year-old Luka Doncic presents both strategic and relational challenges within the organization.

• Ownership and Communication Issues:
  The lack of clear communication from Lakers' ownership and management regarding the future direction has contributed to an atmosphere of uncertainty and discomfort, especially for LeBron, who has never been in such a predicament before.

Stakeholder Dynamics ([54:06]):
Bontemps discusses the inherent issues within the Lakers' roster construction:

“The Lakers just aren't a very good team outside of their top couple of players and they need to fully overhaul the roster.”

Responses and Reactions:

• LeBron James:
  Both LeBron and his representation, notably Rich Paul, have made ambiguous statements, adding to the tension and unpredictability surrounding the team's future.

• Organizational Strategy:
  Without significant draft picks or flexibility, the Lakers face a steep uphill battle in retooling their roster to support both stars effectively.

Future Outlook: Windhorst posits that the Lakers’ transition, while not controversial, brings inherent discomfort. The potential for a buyout or even LeBron’s departure remains a topic of speculation, especially with the difficult dynamics of blending two superstar careers in a competitive market.

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5. Additional Insights and Announcements

Player Relations and Team Chemistry:
The podcast touched upon the intricate relationships between players and management, emphasizing the importance of fostering a harmonious team environment to sustain long-term success.

Podcast Evolution:
Brian Windhorst announced that "Hoop Collective" is transitioning into an offseason mode with an increased posting frequency:

“We are officially in the off-season pod mode... moving to two episodes a week starting now” ([61:36]).

Recognition and Thanks:
Acknowledgments were extended to contributors and team members who participate in the live shows and provide on-ground insights, enhancing the podcast's depth and authenticity.

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Notable Quotes:

• Brian Windhorst ([03:20]):
  “Shai signed what was the largest contract on average annual value in NBA history until Devin Booker officially signs his contract.”

• Bontemps ([04:45]):
  “Having three under, you know, I guess Chase is over 25, but under, you know, 26 and under star level players under contract for the rest of the decade is a pretty awesome place to be.”

• Tim MacMahon ([25:51]):
  “Think about the profit they're going to be making, right. As a team not paying luxury tax.”

• Bontemps ([57:58]):
  “LeBron isn't saying it. JJ Reddick isn't saying it. Rob Polinko isn't saying it. Genie Bus. So that's why we have to keep doing this.”

---

Conclusion:

This episode of "Brian Windhorst & The Hoop Collective" provides an in-depth analysis of key NBA developments, particularly focusing on the Oklahoma City Thunder's strategic signings that position them as a potential dynasty, the complexities surrounding restricted free agents, and the Los Angeles Lakers' challenging transition period. With expert insights and candid discussions, listeners gain a comprehensive understanding of the evolving NBA landscape as teams maneuver through contracts, player dynamics, and organizational strategies.

Transcript

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[Brian Windhorst]

Hello and welcome to WHO Collective podcast. We talk about the NBA, which we're doing on Monday afternoon and Monday evening very late in Lisbon, Portugal, where Bontemps has returned, completing his four trips over the Atlantic in the last week to make sure he could beat the live show. Mr. Bontemps, hello everybody. Joining us from Los Angeles, where he's relocated from Las Vegas, the Mavericks announced the Cooper Flag was done playing in summer league and that meant Bam McMahon was done being there himself.

[Tim MacMahon]

Howdy partners. Looking forward to a spirited summer edition of the Hoop Collect Fear.

[Brian Windhorst]

Well, that's what we deliver. Okay, so we had a great time at the podcast over the weekend. Thanks to everybody who came out. If you got to see it or listen to it on the various platforms, I hope you enjoyed it. We really appreciate Alex Rodriguez and Mark Lore from the Timberwolves and Nick nurse from the 76ers for joining us. And the Corsa Machine, Kevin Pelton. And there was some business that was done over the weekend. You know, pretty significant business for the league. You know, summer league. There's a lot of young guys playing, there's some interesting storylines and those develop. But there was big business done over the weekend. The the Oklahoma City Thunder officially signed both J Dub Jalen Williams and Chet Holmgren. I think Holmgren actually signing took place on Sunday to brand new maximum contract extensions. And with the Shade Gilders Alexander extension that took place, I think he signed it last week sometime too. But over those seven days they locked in their championship core for the next five years. The contracts have no opt outs, which is obviously something that the Thunder wanted. And they're going to be expensive, there's no doubt about that. Shai signed what was the largest contract on average annual value in NBA history until Devin Booker officially signs his contract. But it's going to be over $70 million a year in value. And Chet Holmgren and Jalen Williams both got max contracts, 25% max, the quote unquote fund max. That is not so fun in the new CBA with the second apron. So Bon temps. They're going to be an expensive team. That's the reality. But a couple of things here. One, the Thunder are not going to be paying them that big money this upcoming season. Holmgren And Williams remain in their current, you know, rookie scale contracts. So not only will the Thunder not have any sort of money crunch as they try to defend, but even they probably won't even pay the luxury tax, I don't even think yet again. So they have a potential to compete for their championship without paying the luxury tax. And because they haven't paid the luxury tax, they haven't even started their repeater, you know, clock yet. So Bon Temps. While this is definitely going to bite into them and this is what the new CBA is designed to keep a team like this from being able to stay together for the long term. This is really good news for the Thunder to have these guys all under contracts with no player options.

[Bontemps]

Yeah, I mean having three under, you know, I guess Chase is over 25, but under, you know, 26 and under Star level players under contract for the rest of the decade is a pretty awesome place to be. And yeah, like they're going to have some real decisions to make going forward after this season. We'll see what is the hardest science future is in okc. With the Dort's future is in okc. What a case. Eventually what a case in Wallace extension is going to look like in okc. You know, whether they're not gonna be able to keep everybody on this team, but you look to try to find guys like Chigille Sassandra and Jayla Williams and Chad Holmgren. They all showed that they could be part of a team that can win a title obviously over the last couple months. And you know, I mean as McMahon has talked about a bunch. Chad Holgren spent most of last season either injured or recovering from being injured and never really was at full strength. And before he got hurt he was looking like he was probably their second best player. And that's on a team where Jalen Williams was a deserving all NBA player, had a 40 piece in the finals and did all that while dealing with a wrist injury throughout the playoffs himself. So you know, we spent the last, I don't know, year at least talking about how great a situation the Thunder are in and getting these guys locked up is just one of many reasons why that's the case. And I suspect they're going to be able to weather the financial storm coming pretty well too.

[Tim MacMahon]

And Dub did get Supermax eligibility in his contract.

[Bontemps]

I like his odds.

[Tim MacMahon]

He was all NBA this year, you know, certainly did a lot to boost his reputation during that playoff run and would think he's gonna have a good shot at being all NBA again. Next year, especially with some of the other, all NBA candidates unfortunately not going to be able to play next season. But you hit the two guys who are going to kind of be the first pressure points as far as like the, the long term financial picture of the Thunder. And you know, it's Lou Dort, who I believe is that a team or a player option for Lou in the.

[Brian Windhorst]

Last year of his deal is a player option.

[Tim MacMahon]

It's a player option.

[Bontemps]

So he's a team option for both teams.

[Brian Windhorst]

Oh, club option, you're right. Team.

[Tim MacMahon]

Okay, that's what I thought. Okay, so Lou Dort, club option at 17.7 million for 26, 27 and then Isaiah Hartenstein at 28.5 million. But again, we'll see what happens there. But the point is they're making their difficult decisions. Will start at, you know, the fourth, fifth, sixth spots on the roster. Not first, second, third. They've got those three guys locked up long term and, and then, you know, Sam Presti's done a great job of using some of his first round picks already. He's got a, just a bundle of those things to come. But you look at Case and Wallace now I think Case and Wallace is going to be positioned for a pretty nice contract himself. But he is a potential Lou Dort replacement if it, if it doesn't work out to where Lou will be there long term. And I don't think it's out of the question that, that you know, Lou could end up be there being there for years to come. Same thing with Hartenstein. They just drafted this big guy out of Georgetown, Thomas Sorber, who, you know, long arm, shop locker, nice passer, very Hartenstein esque type of player. We'll see if after his rookie season he's a rotation candidate or not. But that the whole point of Presti having so many picks and continue to kind of push those picks into the future is to be able to manage the payroll when some of these tough decisions come up. And he's, he's got so many swings at it that they can afford to lose some rotation players and you know, still be able to put a championship caliber supporting cast around their, their three stars.

[Brian Windhorst]

Yeah, so let's let me go over that's the raw math. So this upcoming season, 25, 26, Shay Holmgren and J Dub are going to cost about $59 million between the three of them put together. 59 million. All right. That is, the value of that is insane. So, so that, that's so next year, 26, 27, when the when Chet and and JDub's new money come on, the three of them are going to cost about 120 million. That is still for three star players, very, very good. You know, for example, if in that same year Tatum and Jaylen Brown are going to cost a little bit less than that, you know, two, you know, two studs but three versus two then in. And by the way in 26, 27, the sort of the first big cash year for all three of them. Holmgren and J Dub are actually going to be making more than SGA slightly because that's going to be the last year of SGA's legacy contract. The last year of the fund max. So that's actually, that's actually amazing. Then the supermax kicks in and he gets a $20 million raise and in 27, 28 the three of them combined will earn 150 million. So that's where you know, that's where the tough choices come in either way. And they will be in trouble. Not trouble but they will have challenges about resigning guys between now and then the role players, but still the next two years they're still at they discounts so they can compete, you know, for championships with these three guys and probably still be able to outfit the rest of the roster for the next two years. You know this is the thing that happened. Bond temps with the Celtics. The Celtics as they were signing these guys to big numbers, they still saw themselves having a window before they got squeezed and, and in year two of that sort of three year window they won the title. In year three of the window, unfortunately Tatum got hurt but they had a team, a 60 win team that was favored to win the, to win the championship and then they obviously things went sideways on them. But. Yep, but that's where the Thunder before the Thunder sort of have the pressures that the, that the Celtics just had. They will still, you know, have two more seasons and what the Celtics didn't have that the Thunder are going to get, as you guys mentioned, are other teams draft picks between now and then. They've already got other teams draft picks. You know the Celtics were drafting guys in the, in the late 20s, you know, the Baylor Shiremans of the world. Whereas the Thunder are bringing in lottery guys. They've got two lottery picks in this year's will be rookies this year who have yet to play. Maybe neither of them will work out, I don't know. But, but that's where they're different. So while it is definitely a challenge, this is something to celebrate and no team could Possibly be more ready for this than the Thunder. Maybe they won't win the next two years. I mean, there's a lot of different variables that you can't predict. But they are very well positioned. And this year alone, I mean, in, in two years, when Shea's salary kicks in, when the new supermax he just signed actually kicks in, he's going to be making 60 million. Okay. Earned every dime. This year, the three of them will earn 59 and a half.

[Tim MacMahon]

Think about the profit they're going to be making, right. As a team not paying luxury tax. So you're getting luxury tax payments. And they just had, I don't know how many of the. I think it was 12 of 23 playoff games, something like that. A ton of home playoff gates. I would anticipate they'll get a lot of home playoff gates next season as well. And then what happens in 2028? They're opening up a new arena. You think there's going to be some revenue generated from that new arena that is costing Clay Bennett, the Thunder owner, a grand total of $50 million? I mean, he's paying less for the arena than he's going to be paying SGA salary.

[Brian Windhorst]

That's true.

[Bontemps]

It was also interesting on this topic. It flew under the radar during the finals, but Barry Trammell, our friend from the Tulsa world, had a story, I believe it either ran right after the finals or during them that insinuated that not even insinuated, had sources telling him that sometime in the somewhat near future the Thunder will be sold. Which in concert with how fast the teams, how fast the valuations of teams around the league are going up. It also would be reminiscent somewhat of what happened with the Celtics, who had a very expensive team and sold the team as it was getting very expensive and as hard decisions are going to have to be made about payroll and potentially losing guys off teams. That's a championship level team now, wasn't he did not say the Thunder are going to be sold today or tomorrow. But they have been a remarkably stable organization the entire time they've been in Oklahoma City with Clay Bennett essentially handing the keys to San Preston, saying, do your thing and I'm not going to get in the way. And that will be very interesting if that does come to pass, both the timing of when it happens and also who takes over. Because, you know, they have been in many ways a model franchise for their tenure in Oklahoma City. And we've seen a lot of new owners have a lot of impacts a lot of places. And it's just something bears watching.

[Tim MacMahon]

New owner syndrome.

[Bontemps]

We've seen it. We've seen it a time or two.

[Tim MacMahon]

I will say I would hope there's not a new owner syndrome situation. If you've got a potential dynasty on your hands. I would hope you maybe would trust the guy who's built that and has positioned it to be an extended window.

[Brian Windhorst]

Well, I will say this.

[Tim MacMahon]

Just let him work.

[Brian Windhorst]

Montevis does bring something interesting up out of everything that we just discussed. I would say everything is all green lights for the Thunder despite, you know, the things that we know. Chat there's a reason, you know, but Bontemps wrote a story at the end of the season about how the Thunder are in position. The better team is as good as team as we've seen to buck the trend of seven consecutive different champions that you know, in a dynasty, a largely dynasty proof league. Bontemps laid out as some of the stuff we just did here why the Thunder might be able to overcome that trend. And we just said with all the money they should be able to afford it and be okay. That report that Barry Trammell put out, and to my knowledge that was nobody disputed that. At least I didn't see a dispute. But the quote he used is that quite likely they'll consider selling the franchise in the next few years or the near future. I should say that was probably more relevant than any of the other stuff that happened with the sales because you just don't know what would happen. And the Thunder. Clay Bennett is the Thunder's governor, but the Thunder are owned. I think there's three businessmen that own roughly the same percentage. They all own the same percentage. Clay Bennett has the control share. But you know, there's other things at stake and all of them are over the age of 65. And in the case of the Celtics, in addition to how expensive they were going to be, one of the driving principles for the reason that the Celtics are being sold is that Irving Groosbach, who is the controlling owner, he owns the largest share. His son Wick is the governor, is 90 years old and he's doing estate planning. And he also knew that with the new media rights deal that franchise values would be very high. So he took a championship team with high franchise values facing state things and that's what led to it. But all that is to say if you're an NBA team and you know, you've been, you know, you've been hearing a lot of stuff about second apron stuff and you may be thinking to yourself, well, that's got to bite the Thunder in the next couple years. I don't think it's going to. And the reason is number one, that Sam Presti and his staff have drafted very well so that these young and develop these young players are good before their salaries balloon. And also Sam Presti had three years to evaluate how to manage the second apron coming in. And he managed it well, like with the contracts he signed Lou Dort and Isaiah Hartenstein too, so well and, and.

[Tim MacMahon]

And other contracts. You know, Hartenstein was highest in year one, then flat the next couple years. Isaiah Joe is a, is a descending deal. Aaron Wiggins is a descending deal. Jalen Williams, the center is highest in year one, then, then flat. Same with AJ Mitchell, the guard. Like none of this stuff, none of these, you know, concerns are. Are like catching Sam Presty off guard. He's been plotting and planning for years and you know, these things. Like maybe it's a little bit more expensive than anticipated because I don't know if as he started plotting and planning, he anticipated Jalen Williams the.

[Brian Windhorst]

The wing being potentially getting a supermax. Yeah.

[Tim MacMahon]

Yeah. But pretty good problems to have.

[Brian Windhorst]

I will say this. Paolo Banchero signed his max contract with the Magic last week and he was the first player in three years to get a player option on a max contract. A rookie scale max contract. And that trend got halted by the Thunder. Holmgren and Williams got halted. Also one minor thing. Chad Holmgren does not have the escalators in his contract. So we're Chet Holmgren, for example. To win defensive player of the year, you go in defensive Player of the Year, you become supermax eligible. This just happened with Evan Mobley. Mobley signed his extension. He got a defensive Player of the year escalator. In it he wins defensive Player of the Year. He also made all NBA, so he would have gotten it that way. But the Cavs have to spend a lot more money. Chad did not get that. So for the Thunder to get no options, even though Bankero had, you know, in theory set the tone for that class, they. They did get those quote unquote wins, but ultimately they've got rings. And that's the most important win of all. As we know here, when you win a championship, it means never saying you're sorry. And if they have to say sorry in three years because they paid these guys big much, they'll still have the ring and the banner.

[Tim MacMahon]

So what if you win multiple championships?

[Brian Windhorst]

You can say a couple more things.

[Bontemps]

Yes.

[Tim MacMahon]

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[Brian Windhorst]

We had some good and interesting news on Monday. Victor Wembanyama told the keep in France that he had been cleared over over the weekend. Actually Friday he was, I believe McMahon, he was in Las Vegas, right? Wasn't he at these games?

[Tim MacMahon]

Oh yeah, he just walked right in during that game and big guy can't really miss him as he's walking his courtside seat.

[Brian Windhorst]

Well, he apparently saw the spurs medical staff in Vegas just back from Tokyo. He's made two trips to Asia this offseason that we're aware of. I mean one to China and one to Japan. He was dancing in a Japanese club last week. I saw some video from that but anyway, the point is he has been cleared to, he has been cleared to resume basketball activities.

[Tim MacMahon]

Wasn't he doing like bicycle kicks and stuff?

[Brian Windhorst]

Yeah. So look, I don't train it with monks. Yeah. I don't exactly 100 know all of the stuff. So I'm not gonna, you know, say. I would say this as somebody who had a blood clot years ago. Typically you would not be able to be cleared for that stuff if you didn't. If the doctors weren't pretty sure you were not gonna fall and have internal bleeding.

[Tim MacMahon]

So as you were returning from your blood clots, were you doing bicycle kicks?

[Brian Windhorst]

I have, I was able to cut those out of my, my routine. So. So it was hard but, but so my guess is he had already been in a good spot from, you know, potentially off blood thinning medication.

[Bontemps]

Yeah.

[Brian Windhorst]

But you know, he, he has been vague about whether he had surgery for this or not. So maybe he'll clarify that later on. The spurs from the start were confident that he would be cleared to return. So this is what's important. He has been cleared. He's going to be able to start playing basketball again, which McMahon is good because it's only July. Like he shouldn't be able, you know, I'm sure they're going to be careful with him but he should be able to get several months of court work coming into the season. So I'm sure they'll, you know, not let him play 48 minutes.

[Tim MacMahon]

But sure. Two and a half months though of, you know, real off season basketball work. Has there been any clarity on his potential participation in Eurobasket for France?

[Brian Windhorst]

That is a really good question. Now Bontemps mentioned last week that Chris Apps Porzingis re reaffirmed he intends to play for Latvia. Latvia, by the way, a sneaky contender to win.

[Bontemps]

Yeah. At least in a good spot.

[Tim MacMahon]

Yeah. Also the final four is in Latvia.

[Brian Windhorst]

Ah, I didn't even.

[Tim MacMahon]

I knew it was in three different countries.

[Brian Windhorst]

I knew it was Poland.

[Tim MacMahon]

Yeah, well, yeah, the group plays in, in different spots but the, the final rounds are in Latvia. So you know, some extra motivation for right to play. This would be Wimby's Euro basket debut. But whether he plays in that or not, obviously great news that he's going to be in basketball activities for two and a half months heading into camp. No reason to think anything other than he's going to be, you know, ready to roll and you know, in great form come to start of the season. And the spurs are a very interesting team. You know, I don't Know what the over under would be? I don't know if we can go a little double or nothing. I believe I've probably chipped away at that dinner bet despite the, you know, the, the fact that we'd be not playing 50 games. Waved it off. But they've got some really interesting pieces. Obviously made the big deal for Darren Fox, Stefan Castle rookie of the year. Stefan Castle rookie of the year, I should say. And man bond temps. We're in the arena the other day for the little bit of summer league action that Dylan Harper got, but it was a pretty, pretty good whatever it was 18:19 minutes of action that, you know, lo and behold, the number two overall pick looks like a guy who can make an instant impact.

[Bontemps]

Yeah, I think he had 16 points in 18:19 minutes. It was his first game since February or March, the beginning of March, playing for Rutgers. Hadn't done anything really since then. Missed the first couple summer league games with a groin injury in California and in Vegas. But yeah, he, he, I think he's going to be awfully good. I, I, I'm very curious to see what happens with the spurs this year because they do have some, obviously some present day talent with Victor and Dearon Fox. Jackson says the over under is 43 and a half. I mean that's interesting. That's a pretty good line. I, they do have a lot of fit issues to sort out. I don't really know if de' Aaron Fox still and Harper and Stefan Castle long term makes sense to all beyond the same team, which is an interesting thing to sort out. You know, it's so I'm very curious to see what that looks like. You know. So they, they, they do have some real questions to answer with their team. But you know, to go hire Sean Sweeney this summer, they very clearly, you know, Victor is clearly going to be coming in the season expecting to win games. They have the ability to move money around to go add more pieces if they want, if they choose to. Their situation and how they approach this season and what they look like in year three with Victor is going to be very interesting on a lot of fronts. And you know, we also, they made the Deer and Fox trade. I think those guys played like me. I don't even think I was going to say I KNEW it was five games. I don't even think it was 100 minutes on the court together. So you know, they're basically going to be starting from scratch with that partnership too. So there's just a lot of stuff in San Antonio to get sorted out And I mean, obviously we haven't even really hardly talked about it, but, you know, mentioned Sean Sweeney. He's going to be coaching under Mitch Johnson, who is officially the successor to great Popovich. And you know, even though he was the interim coach for a lot of last season, it's a different thing when you're fully in the job and you come in from training camp and you're the guy replacing Greg Popovich with that team. So they are going to be one of the most interesting teams in the league next year and it is going to be fun to see what that group ultimately looks like on the court because they, I think they expect that they're going to start winning games and you know, as we've talked about a ton, the west is really, really hard.

[Brian Windhorst]

There is a report out of Europe today, by the way I just looked, that he still is not planning on playing in Euro Basket. I don't know if that's the definitive thing, but I just wanted to follow up on that. Sorry.

[Bontemps]

Yeah, it's good to know.

[Tim MacMahon]

I was at, you know, when we're out in Vegas, talked to some spurs folks and basically saying, hey, you know, how do these guards fit together? Obviously Darren Fox, a guy that made a, a big swing at, in the trade market and then you know, two guy, a number four overall pick who just rookie of the year in Castle and Harper, the number two overall pick. Then they're all kind of lead guards. But I didn't get a whole sense of concern about the fib. Basically like, hey, two guard spots, 96 minutes, three guys, they're all going to play. And then you kind of figure that out as you go. And. But they've got some real depth on this team now. You know, Devin Vassell, quality player. You know, Kelton Johnson coming off the bench, you know, Harrison Barnes still there, Jeremy Sohan and then, you know, added Carter Bryant, we'll see how much he plays as a rookie. And then went out and added a couple big men this summer in Luke Cornett and, and Kelly Olenek, who they just traded for. And it's, you know, the, the, the sense around the spurs is like, hey, it's time to make a jump. It's time to really be a competitive team. Now what exactly that means at the end of the season in this loaded Western Conference, they might be a very competitive team that doesn't get a playoff spot, like that's possible. But you know, they definitely, like, they need to, they need to make a big stride forward this season for sure.

[Brian Windhorst]

Two Things with the spurs to keep an eye on going forward. In addition, what you guys talked about one, De' Aaron Fox is extension eligible. He cannot extend until August 3rd. We've talked a lot about Luka Doncic. His the extension date is August 2nd. Fox cancel till August 3rd. So we'll see in the month about whether or not that gets done. They can give them another max and give them up to 230 million. There was an expectation that when they traded for him and they sent three first for him to Sacramento that that would be their intention. You can't just hand out, you know, auto max contracts these days. So let's just see how that goes. Maybe that's what they'll do. I don't know. The other thing that is important for them going forward is you mentioned Olenek and Harrison Barnes. Both of them are on expiring contracts. You slap them together and you got almost $33 million between the two of them. You put in Sohan in there, you get up to 40. Not that they could extend Sohan this offseason if they want to. Now, right now I would say that there isn't anybody they should be trying to trade for. But they have extra picks, they have young players, they have the ability with those, with that, with what's on their roster that if they want to go big game hunting, they can. That's one of the reasons why you saw Kevin Durant put him, put them on there on the list, on his short list for where he would like to go if the, if the, you know, if they were interested, they ended up not making a serious bid. So just keep that in mind when you think about the spurs going forward.

[Tim MacMahon]

Can I ask you a question that I don't think you would get a straight answer from spurs folks about?

[Brian Windhorst]

Sure. There's quite a few things you wouldn't, but go ahead.

[Tim MacMahon]

Do you think they would have traded for de' Aaron Fox had they known they were going to land second in the lottery and get Dylan Harper?

[Bontemps]

No, I don't, I don't think they would have. But also it's, you know, they also weren't going to know that.

[Tim MacMahon]

There's no way to know it. But I'm, I'm, it's just, it's interesting because, you know, they obviously traded for Fox thinking, hey, here's a guy approaching his prime who can be the long term fit next to Wimby and, and then they got a guy in Harper who could be the longer term.

[Brian Windhorst]

Well, I would say this, this is why the Fox Extension becomes something you've got to just do some work on, in my view. Maybe they'll just give them the max and they'll move on. But let's say Harper turns out to be the stud that many people think that he is. And you get into a situation where you have an excess guard. Look, maybe Fox and Wendy work with the other grade and you would not dream of it. I'm not, I'm just saying that. But you know, this is the way you got to think if you're a front office.

[Tim MacMahon]

Yeah.

[Brian Windhorst]

You don't want to sign Fox to a contract, that if you have interest in a year or so to trade him, that it becomes an issue.

[Tim MacMahon]

Right.

[Brian Windhorst]

And I mean, you know, how do you, you know, how do you know? You don't know. I mean, Fox could be an all star again this year. And maybe Dylan Harper turned out to be a very good player, but not great player. Maybe that's not the way to do it. You got him, you got to get him into a contract because he's headed for free agency. Otherwise you don't want, you want to get him signed and there's going to be a lot of space next year. Unlike this year where only two teams really had significant space next year. Bobby was telling us, you know, depending on how things go, there could be more than 10 with significant space. And you know, you do not want Darren Fox as a free agent in that situation. So you do need to get him into a contract. But, you know, you know, Bon Temps and I have talked about this for months. There needs to be, you know, Bon Temps has been calling out teams that are not doing negotiations. You know, they're just giving guys extensions. He's been, this is why you got to negotiate everything. Even if you love the player and you want to keep the player, you just can't auto give, you know, the most amount of money. You've got to negotiate. It is just the responsible thing to do for these teams.

[Bontemps]

So you just, you have to. You have to. In the new environment, there's no, there's just no wiggle room anymore. Because even if you want to spend all the money, there's other costs that come with it beyond just spending the owner's money. So just makes it very difficult to keep building the team. It. But yeah, look, I mean, I think if, I think if they knew they were getting Dylan Harper, they wouldn't have invested draft picks and getting another lead guard. They would have just got Dylan Harper and probably went and found other pieces to try to put around those guys to build out the roster. I mean, this is a team that is pretty weak on the wing. They don't have like, Luke Cornet's a nice backup center, but, you know, the, the three, four spots are not where I think they need to be for these guys to be a real threat to, you know, be a top 16 probably in the West. So they do have some other stuff to do, but they've got a lot of stuff they can move around. They got a lot of interesting pieces to fit together. And like I said, I just, it's going to be a very fun puzzle on a lot of levels to watch how they operate this year, to see how these guys all fit. And I mean, I don't remember if we talked about it before or not, but Carter Bryant is a hell of a defensive player already and he might end up just starting right off the bat. That's not a source thing, that's just me watching.

[Tim MacMahon]

But I, I'd be surprised if a cell doesn't start. But we'll see.

[Bontemps]

Yeah, I mean, but he's kind of a two. Like, that's the thing. Like, he's not even. I don't know if he's big enough to really be a three like that. They, they just have a lot of. They got a lot of questions to answer across the board. But the good thing is they got a lot of talent to do it with. And it is going to be a fun jigsaw puzzle to see how Mitch Johnson tries to put it together and puts the pieces out on the court. And hopefully Victor is out there doing his thing again.

[Tim MacMahon]

If they're a top six seed in the West, Wimby will be an MVP candidate. I'll go out on that limb.

[Bontemps]

Yeah, I'd agree with that too.

[Tim MacMahon]

By the way. 120 minutes with Fox and Wimby on the floor together. A negative net rating, but that's obviously tiny sample size. More Hoop Collective podcast after this.

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[Brian Windhorst]

So this has been a tough three weeks for the restricted free agents of this class. This is the 2021 draft class that guys that did not get extended before that got to free agency. So some guys got paid from this class last summer. Kate Cunningham got a max. Evan Mobley got a max. Scotty Barnes got a max. Franz Wagner got a max. That's four guys in the top eight got maxes. Perrin Shengun got a lot of money. Trey Murphy got a lot of money. Jalen Johnson got a lot of money. And earlier this year, Santee Aldama, who was really the only guy of the restricted guys who's gotten paid so far got well paid.

[Tim MacMahon]

So Jaylen Green got a pretty nice chunk of money, but not a long term deal.

[Brian Windhorst]

Correct. He got paid. I should, I should clarify that. He did get paid over 30 million. So Jalen Suggs also got a very good contract. So this, this, this, a lot of this class has been, has been taken care of. If you go back and look a year earlier in the 2020 draft, I think there were four guys who got maxes. That would be Ann Edwards, Lamelo Ball, Tyrese Halliburton and Des Bane, who was the 30th pick. And a bunch of guys from that draft have gotten paid really well. Jaden McDaniels being one. Emmanuel Quickley being one. Oh, Tyrese Maxey, he would get a max too. So there's five, five in that. And then the 2022 class, which is the guys who are getting paid this summer. We've already seen Palo Ban Caro get a max. The number one pick, Chad Holmgren the number two pick get a max. And, and we've seen, you know, 12 got a max. Jabari Smith Jr got very good money. He was a number three pick and some other guys are going to get paid too. So. But the 20, 21 draft, these are the guys who got sort of stuck, and primarily Josh Giddy, Jonathan Kaminga and Quentin Grimes. And I guess you would put Cam Thomas from the Nets in there. So we talked to them, but Cam Thomas, Sam Thomas is out there. So you know, of the guys from this summer who have gotten taken care of from that draft, Davion Mitchell did get a contract from the Heat, but he's been traded around a little bit. Quentin Grimes has been traded twice for that matter. But I, you know, I do hear three times.

[Tim MacMahon]

Three times.

[Bontemps]

Yeah, yeah.

[Tim MacMahon]

Next New York to Detroit, to Dallas to Philly.

[Brian Windhorst]

Yeah, that's right. So, all right, so what I am suspecting here is, you know, these guys are gonna have a. Decisions, they're all gonna have decisions coming up about whether or not they want to take the qualifying offer, which is when you sign a qualifying offer, all of them have to have qualifying offers. Otherwise they're not restricted. If you sign the qualifying offer, you get a note, an automatic no trade clause. Because if you get traded, the team loses the bird rights, so they, they can't pay you no matter what. So that's why you get, you know, an implied no trade clause. So you can have control over that. And so the, so the, the team, you control whether you get traded. And, and you also are at odds with the team. There are examples in NBA history where a player has signed a qualifying offer and things have gone okay and he stayed with the team, but most of the time it signals that this is the beginning of the end with the team. So there's also the possibility that there are offers that these guys will be forced to accept. Now I talked earlier about how this summer was nuclear winter for free agents, especially restricted guys, because there was only two teams with significant space next summer. There's theoretically a lot more. There's some reasoning for saying, okay, I choose free agency next year, let's just roll it over and try again. And the qualifying offers are all pretty good money. You get a, a pretty good bump on what you were going to make last year. Let me just take a look at what Kaminga's is off the top of my head, because I think it's pretty good money. Now what he's hoping to get paid, obviously, but it's not something that, you know, you're really being penalized for.

[Bontemps]

But it's, it's a pretty hard sell to take the qualifying offer over the real offer for any of those guys.

[Tim MacMahon]

You, you want to just go kind of case by case here, maybe starting with Kaminga. All right.

[Bontemps]

I mean I think we should do Grimes first just because it's easy. Like okay, he, he's obviously he's restricted with Philly. I have thought the whole summer this is going to end with him signing up probably two or three year deal for a little bit over the mid level. And there's not really, there's not really a reason for it to get done any sooner because there's not anybody else who can offer him a deal. And that's a fair offer at Philly.

[Brian Windhorst]

His qualifying offer is 8.7 million. That's what he would be taking.

[Bontemps]

Yeah. Yes. He has not made very much money in his career. He's drafted I think 25th in the first round. So if he gets something like 345 something in that ballpark, it's a little over the midlevel and he gets out in free agey again pretty early. Like I think that's a deal to make sense for everybody. And my guess is he eventually signs that with Philly and he's there.

[Tim MacMahon]

Yeah. And it was out there that he wanted something like 25 million a year. That's just not realistic, you know, like, hey, he put up good numbers for Philly, but he put up good numbers when somebody had to score and he was efficient doing it. But come on, like you're not getting paid off of putting up some numbers for a team that's losing every night.

[Bontemps]

Not in the market, when nobody has any space.

[Tim MacMahon]

And his, his negotiations with the Mavericks last year he wanted basically, you know, a full mid level deal. The Mavericks were more in that like 8 to 9 million range. They wanted to give him something like Naji Marshall's contract, which is three for 27. That was a big factor in the thinking of the Mavericks trading him for Cody Martin, who's on the deal right in that 9 million dollar per year range. Now that deal blew up in the Maverick's face. Cody Martin was hurt at the time. I'm sorry, Caleb Martin. I, I of all people should get my twins straight. Although they're identical, so it's more confusing. Anyways, the deal blew up in the Maverick's face for a variety of reasons. It pushed him right up against the thing where they couldn't even sign a guy to another 10 days, so on and so forth. And it looked really bad because Grimes was putting up a ton of points for Philly. But I'm just telling you, like there were Mavericks coaches who were not happy with another trade that the team made and weren't shy to let me know about it. None of the Mavericks coaches were upset about the trade for, you know, the Grimes for Martin trade. They, they, you know, they didn't really value Grimes long term, which is a long winded way of saying if he's getting something around the mid level, I think that would be a good deal for him.

[Brian Windhorst]

Yeah, if he gets over the mid level a little bit, as Bottem said, it incentivizes him to sign it because that's more than anybody's probably going to offer him at this point. Josh Kitty's qualifying offer is 11 million. You know, his situation is, you know, when he got playing time towards the end of the season, when they had the injuries, he put up really good numbers. And I'm sure his position is, well, play me starters, minutes and I'll continue to put up good numbers.

[Bontemps]

Yeah, he's, he's always, he's never had a problem putting numbers up.

[Brian Windhorst]

That's not, that's true.

[Bontemps]

That's not the issue.

[Brian Windhorst]

Well, and the issue is defensively, well.

[Tim MacMahon]

And also like, hey, Josh Giddey, to be productive, needs to be the primary ball handler, which for the Bulls. Right now he's in a situation where that will be his role. Now, what's the ceiling on a team if Josh Giddy is your primary ball handler? I, I do think there's a ceiling there. However, all these things, it's not like this is something that's just been discovered over the last year, the last, you know, six months like this was you didn't know any of this stuff before you traded Alex Crusoe straight up in a deal where the reaction from anybody who knew anything about the NBA said, hold on, they didn't get any picks in that deal. The Bulls got no picks. Seriously. So if you valued him so much that you traded Alex Caruso straight up for him, how are you going to tell him you don't value him that much during contract negotiations?

[Bontemps]

Well, I mean, there's, there's valuing them and there's giving them exactly what he wants. And I, I suspect again here, I would be surprised if there isn't a deal that struck at some point between Giddy and the Bulls. I just, you know, the question I think is, is it going to be something in the 20 to 25 million dollars range per, or is it going to be something, you know. Well, north of that?

[Tim MacMahon]

I mean, and that, and that, from what I hear, that's kind of the difference in the discussions right now.

[Bontemps]

And look, I Josh Giddy is a talented player. I wouldn't want to sign him to either deal because to your point, it's you're sort of signing yourself up to be a 35 and 47 team if you have him as your main engineer offense, which is right about where the Bulls were last year and probably will be going forward if they have him doing that. But he is a talented player. If you do believe in him continuing to grow and improve like somewhere in the 20, $25 million range is probably a reasonable deal for everybody. Again, like I would assume that gets done at some point and that he doesn't sign the qualifying offer. But to Brian's initial point, Josh Giddey has put up a lot of numbers and you know, he I think there's a belief that he's got a chance to be a high level player. And so I could see him saying, Well, I was 6 pick in the draft. I've made a decent amount of money. I get another $11 million. There's a lot of cast space next summer. I'll take my chances. Like that one, I think. I think there's at least more plausibility to that than than the Grimes one. But I would still be pretty surprised if he didn't eventually.

[Tim MacMahon]

Yeah, because he's even if it's the numbers the Bulls are putting out there, it's nearing a hundred million total value. It's at least in the, in the upper.

[Bontemps]

Yeah, well, and he's a. Again, he's sort of the same thing as Grimes. Like if you're a young guy like that, get 80, 90, $100 million guaranteed in your pocket and then be a free agent again at 26 or 27 and then go try to get another one.

[Brian Windhorst]

Like I wish I could tell you I knew what the Bull's plan was. I do not. They have. They have Plan is going to be.

[Bontemps]

The 10 seed for years and third.

[Tim MacMahon]

Place in three team trades are in.

[Brian Windhorst]

Position to have a lot of cap space in 26 because Vusa, Nicolo Vusa, Nicola Vucevich, Zach Collins, Kevin Herder are all in the last year of their contracts. I assume they want to keep Kobe White. It's not likely he gets extended because his number is so low. But he's on the last year of his contract if they want.

[Bontemps]

Just so fans know what you were saying. He he's currently making $12.8 million this year. He's had a really good couple years. He's outplayed his deal. And under the, under the, the rules of the current cba, you can only bump a guy up a certain amount of money, so it's unlikely. The Bulls, you know, they could probably offer him somewhere around like three for 60, maybe a little bit higher than that. And I, I don't think that would be enough to get Kobe extended.

[Brian Windhorst]

Yeah, the, the Bulls would right now. I mean, they did sign Trey Jones to be a backup point guard for them. They gave him two years guaranteed. They're in position to have 60 plus million dollars in cap space next year if that's what they want to do. And if they want to keep that flexibility because they know they're not going to be able to extend Kobe White anyway, they could just squeeze Giddy into the, into the qualifying offer and then they could just really have a bunch of space because if they sign Giddy, you know, it really. It lowens their thing. Now. What are they going to do with that space? That's another. That's another question.

[Bontemps]

And that also depends on the number, too. I mean, if he signs for a deal Starting at like 21, it costs them $10 million of space in theory. So, like, you know, we'll see.

[Brian Windhorst]

All right, so then you've got Jonathan Kaminga. This one's a tough one because obviously he has butted heads repeatedly with Steve Kerr. And the idea that they're going to be able to go through a season together no matter what the situation is in be hunky dory, I would think, is a hard belief. At the same time, the warriors have made it clear that they value him as an asset and they are simply just not going to give him away. If you come to them with a sign and trade offer, as I think they've had a little bit of interest in including from the Kings, they are not going to just do it, send him away. They're going to want something to really help them, and I think they would like if. I think, I think in the opposite of the Bulls, where I'm suspecting that there wouldn't. It wouldn't, you know, there'd be some interest in the qualifying offer from them. By the way, Kuminga's is around 8 million, his qualifier. I think the warriors would prefer, as long as it wasn't crushing him on the tax. I think the warriors would prefer to get Kuminga into a contract that they could move similar to what they did a few years ago with d' Angelo Russell.

[Bontemps]

Well, I wouldn't even say it's that. I mean, that was that was a little different because of the Durant deal. I, I think the obvious analog to this as the guy McMahon brought up earlier, this is Jaylen Green. And I don't think that Kaminga is getting the same amount of money as Jaylen Green for a variety of reasons that the warriors are going to need to avoid the second apron. We all expect them at some point to get Al Horford signed. So, you know, there's somewhere in the low 20s is probably the limit of what they could really realistically go to this year and get him signed using taxidermy level exception which hard cap them at the second apron. But yeah, they, they would like to have him, I'm sure under contract. So to your point, as you said earlier correctly, if you sign the qualifying offer, all of a sudden you can't be traded. The whole point of having Kamingo around this year would be to turn him into something else. I mean, I think there is still somebody for the warriors that he could still become a guy that fits there.

[Tim MacMahon]

But I, but not from the coach.

[Bontemps]

No, no, no, no, no, no, I, I agree. I mean, what I'm saying is I, I, I think everybody agrees that would probably be the thing that makes the most sense. But again, the problem is you're in a market where there's not a lot of cap space, there's not a lot of teams that are banging down the door to get them. And so it probably makes sense for everybody to do a shorter term deal of some kind. Again, a two or three year, like the Jalen Green deal. A two or three year deal, probably three year deal at a, somewhere in the 20s and get him a bunch of money and he's still a young guy, he'd get back out into free agency early and you know, they would be motivated to put him in good positions to succeed this year and give him a chance to showcase himself some. And I, I think that situation could work out pretty well for everybody. Because look, if there was a good sign and trade available, to your point, Brian, he wouldn't be on the warriors right now. We wouldn't be talking about it. Right, right. Like if there was somebody out there saying we got to get Jonathan Kaminga, this would probably be done already, but there isn't. So at some point I think it makes sense for everybody to come together and find some number that's palatable and try this again in January and February.

[Tim MacMahon]

Well, maybe something materializes with the Kings or, or another team, but I definitely think the more the most likely scenario is this thing plays out similar to what you're talking about. And then you know, the Jalen Green contract was a three year deal, the third year being a player option, you know, that kind of a short term deal that is designed to be traded. As much as the Rockets denied that that deal was designed to be traded, what happened? It was traded. Right now, I think with Kaminga, though, it would be designed to be traded December 15, like as soon as he's eligible. And because here's the thing, Steve Kerr has made it crystal clear, like this ain't reading between the lines.

[Bontemps]

It's not.

[Tim MacMahon]

Sources said this is Steve Kerr repeatedly on the record saying Kaminga does not fit with Steph and Jimmy. And if you didn't believe what he said, the guy was DNPCD in the playoffs several times. But if you're going to do that kind of a deal and basically you're trying to flip them as quickly as possible, you know, for value, you got to play him for the first couple months of the season. You've got to, you don't have to put them in the starting lineup, but you got to put them in the rotation. You got to put them in a situation to be showcased. But I think that's probably, it's, it's not the ideal scenario for anybody or Kaminga for Kerr, for the warriors. But I do think it's the best case, realistic scenario the way that there just has not been a market that's materialized for him given the circumstances of restricted free agency and the lack of cap space.

[Brian Windhorst]

Ramona Shelburne and I wrote a story on the Lakers that came out the end of last week. Really. It discussed the limbo that the Lakers are in right now as they navigate moving from a LeBron James centric team to a Luka Doncic centric team. And the story generated quite a bit of reaction. And I would just want to say that the thrust of this situation the Lakers are in is not really controversial. It's uncomfortable. Okay. Because it's not controversial for an organization to look at a 40 year old superstar and a 27 year old superstar and say we need to lean into the 27 year old. It's not controversial, you know, 26. 26. Well, to be 27 next season, be at 26, I guess. But if I'm going to call him 27, I should call LeBron 41. It's not controversial necessarily if, if both players are in the position where they've got one year left on their contract that you would prioritize getting the 26 year old into that new contract as opposed to extending the 41 year old that is, you know, in a vacuum. Those are not controversial things that the Lakers have done. But as I said, it is uncomfortable and it is certainly uncomfortable for LeBron who has never been in this situation before and didn't see it coming and.

[Bontemps]

Going back to February.

[Brian Windhorst]

Right. And so while, you know, and like, by the way, like, I'm not sure that even no matter what LeBron produces this year, that extending him at the max for close to $60 million next year, having a 41 turning 42 year old is a good usage of money. Like, I don't think that's controversial. I'm not saying that he would.

[Bontemps]

I think it would be a good usage of money for a lot of teams. But this goes back to the fundamental problem the Lakers have had for a long time, which is that they just aren't a very good team outside of their top couple of players and they need to fully re overhaul the roster, which is the same situation they've been in frankly, since the moment they made the Russell Westbrook trade. They like, they've never really gotten out of this situation where they had, they had AD and LeBron and not enough help for years and now they have Luca and LeBron and not enough help. And it's hard from the situation they're in with no draft picks and no real flexibility to add around Luca and LeBron without subtracting some money and figuring out a way to reshuffle the roster. And there's just not a, like for a lot of teams, yes, resigning a top 10 or 15 player in the league to the max, even if it's for one year, would be a good idea, but they're not a lot of teams.

[Brian Windhorst]

And I think, yeah, here's one more thing. I'm sorry, McMahon. I think the Lakers contributed to the discomfort by not bringing LeBron in on the Luca trade. And I understand why they did it, but I'm just saying it contributed to the discomfort and LeBron contributed to the discomfort when instead of just picking up his option and saying, all right, I'm going year to year, we'll see you in September. Rich Paul made these statements with that are very open ended, left open to interpretation and just made it clear that he wasn't necessarily thrilled about the direction of the Lakers. So both sides have contributed and there's been a bunch of little minor things, but both sides have contributed to a bit of a frost developing there. But I don't think it's a situation where The Lakers are like, looking to get rid of him, or do I think LeBron is looking to get out of there? I just think they're in this uncomfortable situation. I'm sorry, McMahon, go ahead.

[Tim MacMahon]

No, and. And you're obviously closer to this than neither Bond, Tims or I. And you know, the reporting on that. Everybody should read that story. But LeBron at this point wants this to be an uncomfortable situation. That the whole point of Rich Paul's statement coming right after he opts into the last year of his contract is to create discomfort now what exactly the end game is like. Those guys, extremely intelligent people, understand the way that NBA business works and understand just how difficult any kind of a trade that would make sense for all three parties, the two teams and LeBron would be to pull off. You know, the idea of LeBron getting a buyout from the Lakers at a number of $52.6 million is.

[Bontemps]

I don't know, man.

[Tim MacMahon]

Like, stranger things have happened, I guess.

[Brian Windhorst]

I want to be clear. I mean, I don't think. I mean, the reason people are thinking about a buyout is because LeBron trading LeBron is very challenging. And it was like, wait a minute, if he's not uncomfortable or if he's not comfortable with their direction, what's his other alternative? There's only to get off of a team. There's only two alternatives. You can be released, you can be traded. And so I think part of it is a vacuum. There's a vacuum, and people are stepping into the vacuum. So that's.

[Tim MacMahon]

Well, the vacuum that, that LeBron via rich Paul has created and LeBron, when given a chance to clarify the situation.

[Bontemps]

And the Lakers have created because again, I have been waiting for Genie Boss or Mark Walter or Rob Polinko or JJ Redick or somebody, anybody to say we're thrilled LeBron has opted in and we'll see you in September. Anybody. Can I. Can we. I don't need this statement, the team statement, but I'd like somebody at some point to say, this is great. Let's. We'll see you in the fall.

[Brian Windhorst]

So far, Rich Paul isn't saying it.

[Bontemps]

LeBron isn't saying it. JJ Redic isn't saying it. Rob Palinka isn't saying it. Genie Bus. So that's why we have to keep doing this.

[Brian Windhorst]

And this week nobody has said it. And this weekend, LeBron came to a. A Lakers Summer League game. Dave McMen went over and asked him if he wanted to talk about anything in the wake of Rich's comments. And he said Basically, no comment.

[Tim MacMahon]

I ain't got nothing to talk about.

[Bontemps]

And then went on the radio and did another non sequitur statement. I mean, yeah, Rich, basically, everybody's doing the same. Everybody's doing the same thing over and over again.

[Tim MacMahon]

Yeah. Rich said he had no interest in clarifying anything. And the Lakers have been, as you said, completely mum. But. But here's the thing. LeBron, throughout the course of his career, has always been able to apply pressure on the franchises that he played for because he always had the threat of his departure. Right. LeBron has always had the ultimate power. He's always had all the leverage. And now LeBron doesn't have the power and the leverage because the threat of his departure next summer is not really a threat to the Lakers because it certainly appears that it's part of the plan for the Lakers. So LeBron's ability to apply pressure to go all in on this season like he's done throughout the course of his career is non existent at this point.

[Bontemps]

I would still also like to know what the grand plan is to build a contending team around Luca.

[Brian Windhorst]

Like, well, that's. That's what Ramon and I wrote about. You know, Rob Pelinka presented him with some plan at their exit meeting. And. And I don't know for sure what was in it. I just know that Rob went in with a binder and Luca left with literature. So he presented him something, and obviously it'll be more formal reading.

[Bontemps]

Lubiata, I guess.

[Brian Windhorst]

Yeah.

[Tim MacMahon]

Well, you know, and then. And you know, Luca, to his credit, certainly appears to be doing his part in terms of accepting JJ Reddick's challenge of getting his butt in shape. He's definitely a lot slimmer. He's definitely getting that revenge bod going.

[Brian Windhorst]

I love the revenge body. You should trademark that.

[Tim MacMahon]

Like I said, that's an I T department phrase now, you know, I. She's doing just fine. She doesn't need to get revenge on me. She's, you know, everything's. Everything's great, just to be clear, including the body.

[Brian Windhorst]

But.

[Tim MacMahon]

But Rob Pelinka's got to roll up the sleeves on that cool leather jacket and get to work, man. And, you know, when you. He's got. I think Pelinka wisely is. It's a long, patient approach because he can't. You can't microwave this thing. They're not. You can't just snap his fingers and create a championship team. This year.

[Brian Windhorst]

When you were talking crazy stuff about underwear and stuff at the live show the other day and Bottemps was slamming his head into the microphone. He hit his head with the microphone so many times, he left a red mark on his head.

[Tim MacMahon]

Good.

[Brian Windhorst]

You damaged him with your.

[Tim MacMahon]

I'm glad.

[Bontemps]

Yeah, he's. He's been damaging my brain for a long time. So what else is new?

[Brian Windhorst]

Okay, a couple things before we go. Number one, congratulations to Kobe Altman in this front office with the Cavs. Cavs corner, he just got a contract extension in a new move that I did not see coming. Fred Van Vliet, who was not on the executive committee of the Players Association. Typically when you see a new president, I've seen a handful in my time. C.J. mcCollum's term ended. Fred Van Vlieta, the Rockets now the new president of the Players Association.

[Bontemps]

So be the guy helming the next CBA negotiations. So helming.

[Brian Windhorst]

Good verb. Good verb. Also. Podcast announcement. We are now in. We are officially in the off season pod mode. So we're, we are as, as, as Bontemps is, you know, flying across in the Atlantic and doing pods at all hours of the day with no sleep. We are going to get down to two a week starting. Starting now. Yes, it will come out Tuesdays and Fridays, barring.

[Bontemps]

Barring the need for extras at some point.

[Tim MacMahon]

I mean, emergency pods as, as necessary if circumstances arise.

[Bontemps]

Yeah, for sure. Hopefully they don't. Hopefully they don't.

[Brian Windhorst]

Thank you to our man Jackson, who was helming the operation in Vegas the other night.

[Bontemps]

Jackson got himself on stage the other day.

[Tim MacMahon]

I was gonna say, man, he's got a little stage presence. He's, he's, he's got zoom fright. He doesn't have stage fright.

[Brian Windhorst]

That's right. He was, he was good. All right. Thank you to Jackson. Thank you to McMahon. Thank you to Bon Thames from Portugal. Thank you for listening and watching the Hoop Collective. We will talk to you later this week.

[Tim MacMahon]

Adios, amigos. You've seen the headlines, heard the debates.

[Brian Windhorst]

Some say the three point ball has created a monotonous rhythm to the game.

[Tim MacMahon]

Has the three pointer ruined basketball? And how did we get here?

[Brian Windhorst]

The rise of the three point shot can be partially traced to an eccentric Kansas genius named Martin Manley, whose story.

[Tim MacMahon]

Didn'T turn out quite the way he imagined. I decided I wanted to have one of the most organized goodbyes in history. And I think I will be successful. 30 for 30 podcast presents a brand new original series Chasing basketball heaven, available July 22. Wherever you get your podcasts.