← Brian Windhorst & The Hoop Collective
Brian Windhorst & The Hoop Collective
Our 5th Annual Friendsgiving
02:26:57
Hoop Collective: Another Epic Hoop Collective Friendsgiving
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- [00:01]
Ramona Shelburne
Coca Cola for the big, for the small, the short and the tall. Peacemakers, risk takers for the optimists, pessimists for long distance love for introverts and extroverts, the thinkers and the doers for old friends and new Coca Cola for everyone. Pick up some Coca Cola at a store near you.
- [00:36]
Brian Windhorst
Hello and welcome to who Collective podcast. We talk about the NBA and this is our special fifth annual Friends Giving episode. So for however long this podcast goes on, for God knows how, how much Jackson is going to have wrestled with it over the last 12 hours to cut it down, to try to get us under control. There's like all kinds of voices from all over the country. Part of this podcast I did in Omaha, part of it I did here in la. Part of the podcast Von Temps did in Miami. Part of the podcast he did in New York. McMahon is getting on a flight soon to go somewhere, probably someplace he could drive. It's going to be a terrific opportunity for you to enjoy a lot of NBA talk. And I'm just going to say, at some point in this podcast, we talk about ice. That's where we're going, you know, in various things over Thanksgiving.
- [01:29]
Tim McMahon
So ice is in frozen water. Nothing too controversial.
- [01:33]
Tim Bontemps
That's right.
- [01:33]
Brian Windhorst
So now we're going to flip the switch here and head to the normal podcast. But thank you so much for joining us for friendsgiving and enjoy your travels and if you're not going anywhere, enjoy your Thanksgiving. Joining us from New York City, but just off the plane from Miami, where he saw the Heat beat the Dallas Mavericks on Monday night, is Tim Buntemps.
- [01:54]
Tim Bontemps
Hello, everybody.
- [01:55]
Brian Windhorst
Joining us from Dallas, Texas, where he just got back from the tire store, is Ben McMahon.
- [02:01]
Tim McMahon
Howdy, partners. An unplanned visit, a little bit light in the wallet. Certainly willing to accept any sponsorship deals that might come my way because I'm broke again.
- [02:14]
Brian Windhorst
Nothing like unexpected expense of the holidays to brighten your spirit. Bon Temps. You saw the Heat win their fifth consecutive game and Tyler Hero's season debut, he had 28 points, I believe, playing within the new offense. And I got to say, the fact that The Heat are 12 and 6 despite Hero missing the first six weeks of the season, whatever. Six, five, six weeks. Despite Bam Adebayo being out with a toe injury. Even Norm Powell missed this game. But just, you know, general in and out of the that they've had, like, considering that this team was, you know, not exactly sure what their identity was going to be after trading Jimmy Butler last February. I don't know where they're going to end the season. I don't know where they're going to be at Christmas, but I know right now the Miami Heat are high achieving. I won't say overachieving because that undersells them, but this is what the Heat do. They typically make the best of what they have. And the Heat are one of the early season success stories. Probably not getting the attention they deserve because Detroit and even Toronto have done it in the East. But the Heat or an Eastern Conference.
- [03:19]
Tim Bontemps
Success story right now your nickname for SPO has long been the mechanic, right? Am I remembering that correctly? And that, and that's right.
- [03:26]
Brian Windhorst
Nobody else calls him that, but I do.
- [03:28]
Tim Bontemps
It's a, well and it's, it's, I like it though and I, I think it does fit because he does like to tinker and, and try different things and you know, they, you know he, he's talked about it a couple times that he said it pretty explicitly after the, before the game yesterday. That and they got embarrassed in that first round series by the Cavs, by Cavs corner and I, I, I might be misquoting him slightly, but I believe he said it was as embarrassing a moment as he's ever had in his career. The way game four of that series ended, where I think they lost by.
- [04:00]
Brian Windhorst
More than 50 and I was there for that. It was an elimination game and I've never seen a team lay down like.
- [04:06]
Tim Bontemps
I saw, I mean and, and I, they, they clearly went to the drawing board, back to the drawing board. And you know, he brought in Noah Laroche. We've talked a lot about, you know, the, the stuff that he did in Memphis and you know, that offense, you know, the spread the floor, don't really want to pick and roll. A lot of straight line drive, attacking space offense. It's a really interesting system to use when you don't have a guy to dominate the ball. And this Miami team doesn't really have a guy like that. They've got very good offensive players. You know, Tyler heroes now back. Norm Powell is a very good offensive player. They've got other guys that can score, but they don't have a Luka Dodgych or a Giannis or a Jokic or a Shay, like some guy that you're just going to give the ball for massive usage. So they've leveraged that to having a bunch of pretty good players that can all do different things. And SPO like he does oftentimes is finding ways to maximize a lot of those guys and the result has been There, you know, we've talked about how fast the league is playing overall. They're playing faster than everybody. And even with some of the injuries they've had, they've been able to withstand that by having 10 or 12 solid players. And that means they have nine or 10 available on a nightly basis. And they're just running and running and running and really pushing the tempo and taking, like every guy on the team's pretty much got, it seems, a green light to take the first good look they've got, whether it's to drive to the hoop or to shoot the ball. And having spent a lot of time around Miami last year in the whole Jimmy Butler fiasco, it's remarkable how much happier and, like, how good the vibes are across the board. And I. I think the Heat, yeah.
- [05:57]
Brian Windhorst
They were in a year ago night now. They were in hell.
- [05:59]
Tim Bontemps
They, yeah, it was a miserable situation. They were trying to get out of the Jimmy Butler situation. Jimmy was trying to get out of the Jimmy Butler situation. And they were just stuck in this very awkward dance until they could find a trade that worked. And this year, like the Heater, the Heat are a championship or bus team. So I think they would be the first to tell you that they're not sitting there saying, yeah, we're going to win the title playing like this, but they're enjoying playing like this. They have a very fun team. They're going to win a lot of regular season games, especially in a very wide open east, and they're going to see what they have and see how far it could take them and then go from there. But where. From where they were last year to where they are now, it's night and day. And, you know, it's. It's been, I think, a really. It's a really fun brand of basketball to watch, and it's been a really fun opening month for the Heat.
- [06:53]
Tim McMahon
Well, and we said going into the season that they. And over the summer, the. The heat, we're kind of in this in between phase. We all understand the Heat are, you know, big fishermen. Like, they get big fish, whether it's the free agency or via trade. They get superstar players down there to south beach, and they don't have that right now. So they're, you know, and they can take their time and find the right one. They don't have to act in desperation, but they are in this in between phase. But like you said, bond temps they're having. They're putting a very fun product out on the floor during this in between phase. And you know, with Norm Powell, Hero and Jaime Hawkez, they've got three guys who can really do some pretty significant damage as offensive creators like Hawk has. Is, is an early six man of the year candidate. Hero stepped right in, put up 24 last night, including the game winner. And then pals, we talked about him recently, his numbers are through the roof. And then they've got like, you know, Khalil Ware, he's a really high upside young guy. I mean, a springy seven footer who.
- [08:03]
Tim Bontemps
He just had 20 and 18 last night.
- [08:05]
Tim McMahon
Yeah. And he's three in the high 30s. He's a great lob finisher, very intriguing player. And you know, then they've also done well on, on like the reclamation market. Davion Mitchell is having a hell of a year and he's always been a guy who's been a pit bull defensively. He was just frankly such a bad.
- [08:26]
Tim Bontemps
Offensive player that it was hard to.
- [08:28]
Tim McMahon
Get him on the floor.
- [08:29]
Brian Windhorst
It was a slick trade they made on, I think it was on deadline day last year. Basically he was sort of an odd man out in, in Toronto and the. I don't even remember what they sent for him. Bontempson.
- [08:40]
Tim Bontemps
Well, if you remember, if you, if you remember what happened with that trade was they had a deal to get out of the Tax and the deal fell apart and they wound up having to maneuver things around and they wound up with Davion Mitchell. And I remember talking to the Heat and they essentially were a Davion Mitchell into the Tax. And at the time, everyone assumed they were going to get out of the tax and they didn't. And they basically said, yeah, look, we have been intrigued by Davion Mitchell for a long time and it's worth us to take the swing and see how he fits. And you know, he's been around a long time, but he's still only 27. Like, he's not, he's not that old and he's just getting into his prime years in the league and you know, like, as we've seen, Sacramento is not always the best place to foster a career. And he's, he's now landed in a great, eloquently said, well, but he's now landed in a great spot where he's able to play a role. And again, it's another example of Eric Spoelstra really maximizing all of these different guys. Like Jaime Hawkins had a great rookie year. Last year was a disaster. You know, he had injuries, didn't play well, but like now his confidence is back. He's a really good straight line driver. This offense is set up for him to just attack.
- [10:00]
Jamal Collier
Yeah.
- [10:01]
Tim Bontemps
And even last night, like, didn't matter who was guarding him. Like, he. He was trying to go at anybody who was in front of him and.
- [10:08]
Tim McMahon
Gets downhill and bounces off of people. And by the way, sure does. Davion Mitchell's built like a. Yep. You know, like. Like a short yardage running back and. But he's showing more playmaking than I think anybody would have anticipated. He's eighth in the league in assists at seven and a half per game, and his assistant turnover ratio is 5 to 1.
- [10:26]
Brian Windhorst
Wow.
- [10:27]
Tim McMahon
I mean, like, impressive.
- [10:29]
Tim Bontemps
Well, and it was interesting, too. Like, you know, obviously it was a big topic yesterday that Tyler hero was back. And I. You could see in the game, like, Tyler hadn't played basketball in two months. Right. And you could see in the game, like, the ball's popping around and moving around and Tyler would catch it and have to kind of, like, think a bit because he even said after the game he's used to, like, calling Khalil Ware up for a screen, and he, like, he was kind of on the fly, having to rewire his brain and.
- [10:57]
Brian Windhorst
How soon before he just calls him up anyway?
- [11:00]
Tim Bontemps
Well, I mean, the kind of. The misnomer with this. With this offense is that, like, people act like you're not allowed to do pick and rolls in it. Like they're going to run some pick and rolls.
- [11:09]
Brian Windhorst
And they do every game they run.
- [11:11]
Tim Bontemps
Yes, of course.
- [11:12]
Brian Windhorst
Run less than everybody else.
- [11:14]
Tim Bontemps
Yes. But he also, like, I think his game is very well suited to succeed in this offense where it's. You know, he's a guy like you saw in that game last night. He was able to get to his spaces in the lane and get to that floater range where he feels really comfortable getting shots. And I thought the most telling thing about it was hearing Bam Adebayo talk about it. And, you know, we spent a lot of time talking about how miserable things are in Memphis and how unhappy guys are and. And the way the whole situation sits. Right. And they're asking Bam, like, well, how is Tyler gonna. How's Tyler gonna handle this? How's he gonna handle, you know, adjusting to this, blah, blah, blah. And Bam was like, how could anybody not have fun playing in this offense? Everybody gets to be aggressive. Everybody gets to have the ball. Well, that's what I'm saying. It's. It's just. It's. It's interesting. Now. Look, I don't think it's a perfect offense. I don't think every team should run it. But Bam is a big time player all multiple time all star. Pretty sure he's made all NBA. He's won gold medals. Like he's had a lot of success in the league and he's sitting there saying, yeah, look like Tyler's going to come in and he's going to get the ball and he's going to have success because everybody does with the way this offense is. And it's really fun to play and it's fun to be part of. And it I think it was just emblematic of how different the two situations are in a lot of ways. But also like I thought it was emblematic of just how different like you said, Brian, it is in Miami now compared to what it was a year ago when it was just like a funeral every day waiting for the Jimmy thing to end.
- [12:47]
Brian Windhorst
And we haven't even mentioned that. I don't know if it's the certainly it wasn't the biggest move of the summer because that's Durant, but maybe not even the most impactful. But the Norm Powell trade, you know, to this point has been extremely massive. And you know, and Norm Powell, he really, really, really wanted to be an all Star last year. In fact he came on to the Hoop Collective in an effort to, you know, he knows, get some votes. They know people in the league, you know, listen to the podcast, I have to say and he thought you had.
- [13:21]
Tim McMahon
More power than you really did.
- [13:24]
Brian Windhorst
I guess so. I guess so. Evan Mobley wanted the defensive player of the year that got that got achieved. But Zubotch wanted, Zubotsch wanted a 2 and he didn't.
- [13:33]
Tim McMahon
Anyway, well Zubots wanted all NBA and you were campaigning but anyways, let's get back to nor pal.
- [13:39]
Brian Windhorst
Anyway, I will say that you know, just to point out that on Wednesday night in in group C in the Eastern Conference NBA cup, oh you should be aware that the the Heat and Bucks are playing and the winner of that is probably going to win the group and not only that, but Giannis might be back for that game.
- [13:58]
Tim Bontemps
So we got a questionable this evening, Tuesday evening so that would seem to be a pretty good he will be on the court on Wednesday.
- [14:05]
Brian Windhorst
I mean I'm not saying that you shouldn't watch Pistons Celtics on ESPN on Wednesday, but you know I would tune into Heat Bucks. Oh my gosh, what an insult. What an insult.
- [14:20]
Tim Bontemps
I mean the Heat I've, I've just happened to turn on a lot of Heat games this year like they're just, they're really fun to watch. And, and obviously, you know, with Giannis coming back, I mean it's been a rough, I mean that, it's been a rough three games with him out. Their offense has looked about as bad as you would think it was going to look. And you know, if he is able to get back, they have the Heat on Wednesday in the cup and they have the Knicks on Friday in the cup and I think if they win one of them, what I just realized.
- [14:48]
Tim McMahon
We'Ve got a delightful little pre Thanksgiving triple header.
- [14:52]
Brian Windhorst
That's correct.
- [14:53]
Tim McMahon
Yeah. So you can, you can actually watch Piston Celtics. I will be at the ESP. That's a 4 o' clock tip or.
- [15:00]
Tim Bontemps
I guess what is that 5 on 5 Eastern? Yeah, 5 Eastern.
- [15:03]
Tim McMahon
Yeah, I think in Central we haven't had a lot of five eastern Thunder game, which is our middle game and the, the late night. Who do we got a late night here? Oh, Rockets. Warriors.
- [15:14]
Anthony Slater
Thunder.
- [15:15]
Tim Bontemps
Warriors. Rockets. Don't worry.
- [15:16]
Tim McMahon
Yeah, that's a delightful little triple header. But, but you want to take, should.
- [15:20]
Brian Windhorst
You, should you want to tune in at 4:30 you can watch NBA Countdown on ESPN.
- [15:26]
Tim McMahon
Oh, a bunch of rich people talking about basketball.
- [15:33]
Brian Windhorst
I mean there's a couple of NBA champions on there. I mean I'm not one of them, but there's a couple of champions on there. Yeah, well that's not going to be happening. But that, that, yes, there's some good games tomorrow. The, the Thunder will be on. The Wolves we're going to talk about in a minute. And then who doesn't want to see the Rockets warriors bringing up the nightcap?
- [15:57]
Tim Bontemps
Should be fun.
- [15:58]
Brian Windhorst
Look, there's no such thing as a devastating loss in November. Let's just be clear.
- [16:04]
Tim Bontemps
There are bad losses though.
- [16:07]
Brian Windhorst
It has not been a good couple of days for the Timberwolves. They, they gave up a nine point lead in the final minute or eight point lead in the final. Was it six? Whatever it was.
- [16:18]
Tim Bontemps
Eight point lead in the final 45 seconds in Phoenix.
- [16:22]
Brian Windhorst
Absolutely unacceptable loss. Then they go up to Sacramento and if there's ever been a bounce back situation, I think they had a couple of days off after the Phoenix game. Got to stay in Phoenix. They stayed in Phoenix, enjoyed the weather I'm sure. Then they had a practice and they get to come up to Sacramento. This is an ideal bounce back situation. And they were ahead by 10 points late in the fourth quarter. I think with three minutes ago they were ahead by 10 and they allow the Kings, the lowly Kings to make a 100 run to end that game. And I got to say, as I'm discussing, you know, this the beginning of the idea of what the trade market may look like. You know, in the NBA, a team that is a mer, you know, there's some sellers you can identify. Okay. But a team that is emerging as a buyer is the Wolves. Coming off of two conference finals, high expectations, weak at the guard position just from for various reasons. And a team that, despite having a decent record, has underachieved because they've gone through a soft portion of schedule, including, quite frankly, the Suns and Kings. I mean, at worst, you should split that even on the road. And a team that should consider that could win for the west, especially when you're in position to win both, should win both games. And so Bontemps, the Wolves. I'm not, I don't want to get too far ahead of ourselves, but the Wolves are not performing in a manner that they need to be performing at this point.
- [17:57]
Tim Bontemps
No, they are not. And the tricky part for Minnesota is like you say, okay, let's just say they decide they want to make a move, right. With the moves they've made prior. Especially, you know, not only the Rudy go Bear trade, but also then trading. Also then trading Rob Dillingham before Rob Dillingham in the draft a couple years ago. Yeah, I mean, they have, they literally don't have a tradable first and a 2032 pick is frozen because they were in the second apron. So they like, okay, like you want to say, this is a prime example. You want to say, hey, Minnesota needs to make a move, needs to get guard help, needs to do this, needs to do that. Like, okay, are you trading Julius Randle for a guard? Are you trading Jaden McDaniels for a guard? Are you trading Rudy Gobert for a guard? Well, if you trade any of those.
- [18:53]
Brian Windhorst
Trade big for small in the NBA.
- [18:55]
Tim Bontemps
Well, just if you trade any of those guys for a guard, it creates all sorts of other problems. Like people want to say Rudy is, you know, not as good as he was before their defense goes off a cliff whenever he's on the bench. Jaden McDaniels is their best, you know, wing defender. He's. They're one of their. He's really the only guy besides Ant you can look at as a true, I think, sort of building block player going forward. Julius Randle's there, probably their best creator or maybe him and Ant and he's their other big time scorer. So, like, you move on from any of those guys who were their three big salary players besides Ant, who they're obviously not trading? Those trades all create other problems. And they're also right up against the second apron and have to deal with the financial part while sending out money. It's just really hard to make a big trade.
- [19:43]
Brian Windhorst
You would be able to take on any money. That's absolutely true.
- [19:45]
Tim Bontemps
But, you know, they'd have to take on.
- [19:47]
Brian Windhorst
Right.
- [19:47]
Tim Bontemps
They can't add salary. They'd have to move around salary. And it's, you know, like it. It's just. It's a very, very, very complicated equation for Tim Connolly. They're the head of their front office.
- [19:59]
Brian Windhorst
I will say this not to jump in front of you, McMahon. I'm sorry, but part of the reason why people in the league are talking about them is because Tim Connolly does do stuff like that. He wants to make big moves. Last year they were in the second apron and they were negotiating with the Suns, who were in the second apron, and they were trying all kinds of different things to get Kevin Durant. Now, ultimately, they weren't able to do that, but this is a team that eventually made the conference finals. Like, Tim Connolly is a guy who swings big, doesn't mind paying, and will figure out the rest later. And he's had a fair amount of success in his career doing that. So part of the arithmetic as I talk to guys is that if Tim Connolly thinks he needs to make a move, he'll figure out a way to make it. And I know that that's irresponsible to say figure out and make a move, but that's what people say.
- [20:39]
Tim McMahon
Well, and it like, it's been known, and Connolly has understood for a while that point guard was going to be an issue. You know, Mike Conley is a backup at this point in his career. It's been an amazing career. That's no knock on him. But that was the whole point of doing the Rob Dillingham deal, that they paid a steep price, a pick and a swap to be able to get that pick from San Antonio and take Rob Dillingham because they recognize, hey, they needed a point guard of the near future.
- [21:13]
Tim Bontemps
And so far, that bet looks like a really bad bet. And listen, I'm not going to sit.
- [21:17]
Tim McMahon
Here and give up on a guy who's 20 years old. But his numbers this year are not better than his numbers last year. He is still a fringe rotation player who is. His shooting numbers have gone down. He's shooting in the 30s from the floor. Talking to people around the league. There is a Lot of doubt whether you will ever be a real point guard. I hear a lot more of them. You know, maybe he can be a bench bucket getter than, than a. A true point guard, but point being, that was a big swing that they took a couple drafts ago that is not paying dividends. And as a direct result, there is a glaring hole in this roster. And you see that glaring hole as they, much like they did for a lot of last season, continue to have massive problems closing games. I mean, these. This is an extreme example, but their clutch offensive numbers are bad and they get worse the later you go and the tighter it gets.
- [22:19]
Tim Bontemps
Well, in the on off numbers, just to. Just to highlight that. Now, these are not always obviously perfect. There's context to these things. But Rob Dillingham's played 15 games, played 163 minutes, so a little over 10 minutes a game. The Wolves offense is 100 flat when he's on the court, which is the worst in the league, and they have a net rating of negative 9.4. And when he's on the bench, the offense goes up to 120 in 658 minutes and they have a net rating of 7.9. So they're 17 points better when he's on the bench, and he's on the bench a lot more than he's on.
- [22:55]
Tim McMahon
The court, but he is on the bench in those clutch situations and they're not.
- [23:00]
Tim Bontemps
This is not entirely a Rob Dillingham problem, but it's. It's pretty important context. When you look at the state that Minnesota is in, that they didn't have a lot of assets left in, in the chamber to go get stuff, and they used most of them to make that trade. And it was a, it was a big swing trade at the time. Like if Rob Dillingham was a starter, like, look like a really good. Like if you look like Stefan Castle right now, right, you'd be saying, hey, it's a great move. They've got the young guard to go with Ant going forward, and you'd feel really good about where Minnesota's at. Instead, make that move. Doesn't mean Dillingham can't get better. He's still very young. He's obviously a talented player, but puts into pretty stark relief that it's an issue they've got to solve. And there's just like, like I said, like Tim Connolly, like you said, Brian, he gets things done. If he wants to make a move, he'll figure out a way to do it. But it is a really tricky puzzle. To try to figure that out when almost any move you make has to involve trading away probably a key piece.
- [24:09]
Tim McMahon
Well, and that's it. There's certainly the possibility that there could be one or more recent all star point guards on the market for the deadline who are considered distressed assets, I would say. But even in that case, just to make the salary work, you'd have to give up a very important player if you're the Timberwolves. So it's a tough spot to be in.
- [24:33]
Brian Windhorst
Well, good news. I have good news. They play at Oklahoma City on ESPN on Wednesday.
- [24:39]
Tim McMahon
Well, probably won't have to worry about protection. A late lead, that's good.
- [24:42]
Brian Windhorst
17 and one in case you haven't heard.
- [24:45]
Tim McMahon
Listen, can they make Shea play the fourth quarter? Tune in to find out.
- [24:50]
Brian Windhorst
Hey, that's the first order of business when you team with Oklahoma City is make them play the fourth quarter. I'm not kidding.
- [24:56]
Tim Bontemps
Can I ask a resident Thunder expert a question before we change topics?
- [25:01]
Tim McMahon
Go ahead.
- [25:03]
Tim Bontemps
We have, we have been waiting for Jalen Williams to play. He now is not all NBA eligible. Do we have any sense of when he's going to be ready to go?
- [25:15]
Tim McMahon
I actually thought it was going to be last week and that obviously didn't happen. I am boarding a flight and heading up there tomorrow. If I have any further information after that trip, I'll let you know. Obviously he was hoping it'd be much earlier, you know, then he had to go get that screw removed and.
- [25:34]
Brian Windhorst
Are you going to Rich's for Thanksgiving dinner?
- [25:36]
Tim McMahon
No, no, I'm heading back home for Thanksgiving dinner and then heading on out to la. I think I'll see you in la.
- [25:42]
Brian Windhorst
That's a shame. Oh no, I won't be here when you're here. I refuse it. I absolutely. That's absolutely not going to be on the. On the menu.
- [25:51]
Tim McMahon
We'll see. Be there for a while.
- [25:55]
Brian Windhorst
Okay. Now we welcome in from Sacramento, California, his first friendsgiving appearance, it's Anthony Slater. What's up Slater?
- [26:05]
Anthony Slater
I thought you just brought me on to talk about the scorching hot Sacramento Kings.
- [26:10]
Brian Windhorst
They gave it to the Timberwolves the other night. The Timberwolves were what was it? A nine point game with or maybe a ten point game.
- [26:21]
Anthony Slater
They had a 100 run in the last like 125 or something like that.
- [26:25]
Tim Bontemps
It's the latest absolutely absurd loss of the season for the Timberwolves. I mean they just blew a eight point lead in 49 seconds to Phoenix the other night. They had the game there. They lost to The Lakers at home earlier this year when Austin Reeves went insane and hit the buzzer beater with no Luka, no LeBron. Just not, not very impressive from a team that wants to be making a deep playoff run again.
- [26:51]
Anthony Slater
You know what's funny about that though? So I had a choice last night. Go to Warriors, Jazz or King's Timberwolves. I went to the warriors game. Obviously, you know, the company probably prefer I mostly do that. But the, you know, the King's Timberwolves game was more interesting. And when I get out of the arena quick enough on nights that the Kings win, which is a very big qualifier here because hasn't been too many, I. On my way back home, I drive past the arena. Beam was lit last night. First time in the season.
- [27:17]
Brian Windhorst
How far out from Sacramento can you see the beam?
- [27:22]
Anthony Slater
Pretty, pretty good. Maybe like, I don't know, 10, 15 miles. Maybe like they. So, so the second year they had the beam, which was, you know, the first year was actually the, you know.
- [27:31]
Tim McMahon
Good year of the beam.
- [27:33]
Anthony Slater
But the second year they really like, you know, improved the bulbage, wattage, whatever you want to say, and it became way more bulbage. New word.
- [27:44]
Brian Windhorst
That's Oklahoma State right there.
- [27:46]
Tim Bontemps
Yes, sure. Is that Oklahoma State? Education, baby.
- [27:49]
Brian Windhorst
Well, I will say before we talk about the warriors, you saw Ace Bailey. You know, a lot of these guys in this class, these 25 class, are having really great starts. Ace Bailey started a little slower, but Ace Bailey had the best game of his young career, 21 points. I know the Jazz lost. That's actually, don't tell anybody, but it's not the end of the world if Ace Bailey plays well in the Jazz. Lose. They don't want to say that out loud. I'll say it for him. But what'd you think of Ace Bailey? I don't know if it's the first time you've saw him. I got to see him last week in la, but what'd you think it.
- [28:20]
Anthony Slater
Was the first time? You know, he's playing a more controlled brand of basketball than I think we all probably predicted that we thought it was going to be like extremely low efficiency. Like just get to the mid range 19.
- [28:31]
Brian Windhorst
That's where a lot of rookies are, play low efficiency.
- [28:34]
Anthony Slater
But yeah, yeah, but it's, you know, it's not, you know, it's not like super like losing basketball, you know, the, the type of stuff he's doing, which is, you know, is encouraging, I think long term. I think you can still tell even on plays last night, particularly on the Defensive end, he's still, you know, a teenager. You know, he's kind of getting thrown around a little bit by, by, you know, adults out there. So he's got a while to go to be like, you know, a really sturdy, you know, wing in the league. But you can kind of see, you know, what it's molding into. And I would say, you guys would probably agree it's been a more encouraging start than maybe we all predicted from just like a style of play standpoint.
- [29:13]
Brian Windhorst
Yeah. When you talk to the folks in Utah, they say he's just really getting started working on his body even, you know, they, they haven't even really introduced a lot of that strength building stuff yet because they wanted to get him acclimated and everything like that. So they are, they, they believe he will add a lot of strength, which is, again, not exactly a hot take when you're dealing with a teenager. But they are very excited about him. And I know that, you know, obviously Cooper Flagg is a, is a budding potential star. The spurs are raving about Dylan harper. Obviously the 76ers are over the moon about VJ Edgecombe, who got taken right in front of him. Bon Thames, who am I forgetting?
- [29:57]
Tim Bontemps
Con Kneppel from right now.
- [30:01]
Brian Windhorst
Con Knippel, I think, took over from Cooper Flagg in some of the big books is odds on favor for him for a rookie year.
- [30:07]
Tim Bontemps
That will not be a good bet if Cooper stays healthy, but especially now that he's not playing point guard anymore. But Khan has been awesome and is very good. It's been a very good class all the way through.
- [30:16]
Brian Windhorst
And I would say the Jazz, even though Ace Bailey has not been explosive yet, they are, they are pleased. At least that's what they're telling me. Maybe they're not telling me the truth, but I thought I found them believable anyway. Slater, did you have a better road trip than the warriors did? They started out okay. They finished three and three. They lost three in a row coming in and needed that one over the Jazz to break their losing streak.
- [30:42]
Anthony Slater
Yeah, you know, I actually thought going out on that six game trip, if you scripted it out three and three was like reasonable. So they, they, they ended it. You know, it just didn't go exactly how I thought it would. Right. The sweep in San Antonio was on the high end. I would say the loss in Orlando was surprised, maybe you want to say. I mean, that's a tough place to.
- [31:02]
Brian Windhorst
Win, but they went for the Oregon hot, buddy.
- [31:04]
Anthony Slater
Yeah. They punted the Miami game and then they got blown out in Oklahoma City, which caused this like, you know, mini crisis. The, the bad loss they've had recently is actually when they got back home, they lost to Portland, you know, gave up 127. So you know that you, me and Tim have talked about it plenty on, you know, the Warrior stock report. We do, but it's. They're, they're wobblier.
- [31:23]
Brian Windhorst
See on YouTube.
- [31:25]
Tim Bontemps
Yeah, that was not as loud a plug as McBan typically gives for his things, but smooth. It is a thing that happens.
- [31:34]
Anthony Slater
They're probably more surprisingly shaky than I think a lot of people predicted. But you could see a lot of these flaws entering the season. And I think you start on the interior and we can get to some of that if you want.
- [31:46]
Tim Bontemps
We talked about this on the pod on Monday, where the difference between where the Lakers are and where the warriors are is the Lakers have taken care of business and they have won the games that they were supposed to win, even though they've had a relatively easy schedule. Though I did say the Lakers beat the Bucks without Giannis. They. Giannis played in that game and they won by a thousand. That was a mistake I made on Monday.
- [32:10]
Brian Windhorst
But I'm sure no Laker fans mentioned.
- [32:12]
Tim Bontemps
Yes, Laker fans were very angry. I was a. It was just an oversight at a late hour on the East Coast. But, um, but they've won. You know, the, like we've talked about the, The warriors are 9 and 9 because they lost to Milwaukee without Giannis. In Milwaukee, they lost to the Pacers. One of the two wins the Pacers have this season was to a rested warriors team. You know, they, they've dropped a couple other games that they should have won. And in the Western Conference, if you're trying to be in the top six or top four, you know, like we just talked about Minnesota, you can't be kicking away these games you, you should have in the bag. Like that could be the difference between finishing fourth or sixth or seventh. And for an old team like the warriors, they can't afford to be finished in six or seven.
- [33:00]
Anthony Slater
They're 22nd in offense.
- [33:01]
Brian Windhorst
But that's what could ask. That's what I'm going to ask you. So, you know, 19 games, it's been a ton of games. They've had all these back to backs. The Rockets still haven't had a back to back.
- [33:12]
Jamal Collier
That's great.
- [33:14]
Brian Windhorst
The Warriors, I think have had four or five. But the offense is that. How concerned should they be about that, Slater?
- [33:24]
Anthony Slater
Pretty concerned. I mean, you know, they've recently kind of had a bad defensive patch. That, you know, was the talk from Jimmy Butler and Draymond Green is stomped around a little bit upset about some of their defensive effort and some of their bad losses. But you know, zoom back. 9th ranked defense, 22nd ranked offense. That's the thing they need to correct more. If you look at just the Steph Curry minutes, they're still, you know, a good productive, like top 10 type offense. It obviously craters when he's off the floor. You know, a lot of that was he's had a sickness. Some of the losses Tim mentioned, he was either, you know, not available for or just not productive in those losses. I think, you know, what did they all summer or even early in the season, we were talking about Al Horford being the signing that was going to open so much up for them. He shot it fairly poorly from three because they've had this condensed schedule. He's missed five games because he's not playing both sides of back to backs. And now red alarm. I mean, you guys dealt with the LeBron stuff. He's got sciatica right now. They just announced him out at least a week with a sciatica nerve irritation. Yes.
- [34:26]
Brian Windhorst
So I see that update.
- [34:27]
Tim Bontemps
That's not good for one of the oldest players in the league.
- [34:30]
Brian Windhorst
Yeah, players are playing longer bond temps. But I cannot remember there being two sciatica diagnoses.
- [34:37]
Tim Bontemps
Well, yeah, I mean, these are two of the three oldest guys in the league. I believe. I believe that's the case. I think gals third behind Chris Paul and LeBron. And so, you know, if you got guys playing heavy minutes at 40 and 41, well, this is what's going to happen.
- [34:52]
Anthony Slater
Which was anybody that was trying to say, hey, I'm not sure about this team this season over 82. This is why I was among the people saying this, where Al Horford now is out, you know, I'd say indefinitely. They announced, they said reevaluate in a week with the sciatic nerve issue. Draymond Green is. Is playing center a ton, you know, and he's facing clinging the other night, 7 foot 3, comes down on his foot, has a very painful foot sprain. I talked to him in the locker room yesterday. He misses yesterday's game. He wants to play Wednesday. You know, I compared it to that. Remember when Marcus Smart fell on Steph's foot? This would have been in the title season. He missed a month. I kind of tried to compare that with Draymond. He, Draymond was saying, you know, Steph tore something Draymond didn't do that, but it was painful. I mean, he was putting on his shoe in the locker as I was talking to him. And you could tell he's grimacing a little bit. He's trying to play Wednesday. But here's the problem for the Warriors. No Horford, Draymond coming back to face the Rockets on ESPN tomorrow night. You're Sengun Steven Adams, the 40% offensive rebound rate team. The Thunders coming in next Tuesday with Chet and Hartenstein. And Draymond's at this point starting to get the accumulated bumps and bruises. So then you look at the who's behind them. Quentin Pose, Trace, Jackson, Davis, they've been nice finds in the second round, but that's not, you know.
- [36:08]
Brian Windhorst
Yeah, I had a, I had an executive tell me today, just today, he said, you know, I know this isn't always right because, you know, sometimes they surprise you. But he goes, I typically bet against. He shouldn't. He didn't say bet against. Let me take that back. He typically expects the older teams, the team, the oldest teams in the league, to struggle to always underachieve. And you know, he's easy, it's easy for him to say that now with the Clippers, you know, wheezing and you know, this team well, we're, we're in.
- [36:43]
Tim Bontemps
A league where teams are playing faster than they have in decades and the pace of play is way high. Teams are the teams with depth are the teams that are winning right now. Right. The Thunder, the, you know, the Pistons have obviously defied that a little bit because they've had some injuries, but they're a young team. They don't, maybe not super deep, but they are very young and athletic and playing fast. Toronto is winning with depth. Miami is winning with depth. Houston is winning with a decent amount of depth. You know, you, you go through and a lot of these teams are younger and deeper and whether it's the Sixers last year, the warriors this year, the Clippers this year, you know, it seems like the Knicks and Cavs. Cavs obviously have some injury prone players with depth, but like you have, you have injury prone players and you're having to play a faster, more demanding style. There's a better chance for guys to get banged up. And you know, we've seen that start to accumulate already in this opening month of the season. And you know, it's where if you're the warriors, like, yeah, this has been the hardest part of their schedule. They've had all these back to backs. All these things are true but now you're dealing with, you know, pushing 40, Al Horford with a back issue, mid-30s, Draymond, who you don't already want to be playing a ton of center minutes now, having to play extra center minutes now having to deal with the wear and tear of that against a big league.
- [38:12]
Anthony Slater
The league's getting bigger, too, and the.
- [38:15]
Tim Bontemps
Warriors are not big.
- [38:16]
Anthony Slater
Yeah, no, they're not. The, they.
- [38:20]
Tim McMahon
The.
- [38:21]
Anthony Slater
If you were to take the glass half full approach to them right now, it would be Steph Curry still looks like Steph Curry at his best, right? The San Antonio games, he's got.
- [38:29]
Brian Windhorst
He's got over 30 in five his last six games, averaging 35 in his last six.
- [38:34]
Anthony Slater
So he hit. You know, if you were to get him healthy in a playoff series right now, you still would feel good about. You have like four full throttle Steph Curry, and I would say full throttle. Jimmy Butler, he's looked really good, I think, this season, you know, when he's needed to turn it up, playing his controlled style of play. So your top two still look like, you know, a legitimate top two. And that's the other part with this team. You know, they were hoping below them, this, this younger layer of the roster, mid tier layer of the roster would take a leap enough to, you know, float them along in the 82 game regular season. And that just hasn't happened for various reasons, I think, you know, specifically each player has their own. But that's. That's been probably the bigger problem because I still think you can look at the main guys, even Draymond, their defensive rating with him on the floor and off shows he's still a monster impact defensive player. But the problem is, you know, again, they're going to be great, I think, if healthy in the playoffs, how do they get there?
- [39:30]
Brian Windhorst
All right, Mr. Slater, thank you so much for joining us on Friendsgiving. And we look forward to you joining us many years into the future.
- [39:37]
Anthony Slater
I appreciate y'.
- [39:38]
Ramona Shelburne
All.
- [39:41]
Brian Windhorst
Okay, now joining us from Detroit, it's Vince Goodwill. Welcome to your first annual friendsgiving, Vince.
- [39:50]
Vince Goodwill
It's good to be here with you, Brian. You're a good friend in the Thames.
- [39:56]
Brian Windhorst
I'm having, like, warm feelings of nostalgia because the Pistons, who, you know, in my youth were good and in my young years when in my 20s, when I was just a young kid trying to make deadline at the palace of.
- [40:12]
Tim McMahon
Auburn Hills with a buzz cut.
- [40:15]
Brian Windhorst
With the buzz cut, number two didn't have to worry, could get it in any city. Then he just go in and say, number two didn't have to worry.
- [40:22]
Tim McMahon
You can do it yourself. Trust me on that one.
- [40:26]
Brian Windhorst
I wouldn't recommend Wednesday night are going for a team record. Their 14th win on ESPN against the Celtics. Going for their first. Their, their longest winning streak ever. And the other two times they won 13 games. One was in 03 04, my first year covering the NBA when they won the title. The other one was I think in 89 90.
- [40:45]
Tim Bontemps
Oh, I believe, I believe. Have they, have they not won 14 in a row already? I thought they were 1 and 2, right?
- [40:51]
Brian Windhorst
No, I think they're 13.
- [40:52]
Vince Goodwill
Was it 13 or 13 that 90 team went 25 and 1. They won 12 straight. Lost the game and then won 13 straight.
- [41:03]
Tim Bontemps
Pretty good.
- [41:03]
Vince Goodwill
So.
- [41:04]
Tim Bontemps
Yeah, pretty good.
- [41:05]
Brian Windhorst
Yeah, that's, that's, that's.
- [41:07]
Vince Goodwill
These guys ain't that. These guys aren't that.
- [41:09]
Tim Bontemps
It's a little different.
- [41:11]
Brian Windhorst
Check yourself. They're 15 and 2. So you've had some interesting reports. So, okay. As we do in the media, you know, people sort of had the Pistons sort of in the middle of the pack. Oh, but they were a nice story last year. And now like Nobody had him 15 and two. I mean, you know, maybe they did. You know, if Cade wants to say he had himself 15 and two, who am I to say? But now they're 15 and two. Folks like us in the media are like, all right, well maybe they're going to win the east this year and maybe they've, they could use expiring contracts and stuff to upgrade their roster. So you've had some reporting about this. Vince, you have lived in and covered, lived in Detroit and covered the Pistons for a long time. What do you think the Pistons plan is as they approach what is a new reality of them being the number one team in the East?
- [42:00]
Vince Goodwill
This is a whole new different type of reality for Tom Gores. Like two years ago this time he had us jumping on a zoom like on Christmas Eve to apologize for a soon to be 28 game losing streak. So to say that this is new territory is very understating. I think this though I do believe that ownership at least has an appetite if they are willing, if the front office is willing to go for it. The front, the ownership has been like, oh yeah, we can go, let's go get Blake Griffin. Remember that deal was a blockbuster deal in 2017 because they thought they had finally gotten a star and Stan Van Gundy and everything else. And Blake was signed to a long term deal with the Clippers and everything. So they haven't been afraid of making big Moves I think they have learned now you have to be a little more prudent. But when you look at the treasure trove of young players, not just Cade Cunningham, J. Nivey is back. Asar Thompson is playing well. Ron Holland, don't forget Jalen Duran's going to be up for a big time extension that you have to budget for. So the question you have to ask yourself is, do we have the appetite to be able to handle all of our young players similar to Oklahoma City, but not quite like Oklahoma City, or do we want to, let's say, see what it costs for Lowry Marketing, which I think, I think a, the starting point for that would be Yassar Thompson. And the answer for that from Detroit standpoint is no, but they don't. But no, no, no, no, they're not.
- [43:32]
Tim McMahon
No, no, no, not that. But I'm saying you mentioned Lowry, Markkanen, there are other potential targets. I honestly, I think it would actually probably cost less in terms of what you've got to give up to get Anthony Davis because as Bon Temps wants to chime in, it will cost more in terms of his salary.
- [43:53]
Tim Bontemps
That is true.
- [43:56]
Vince Goodwill
I'm sure Bon Temps is probably not a huge fan of Anthony Davis coming to a contender and helping a contender.
- [44:03]
Tim Bontemps
Like, I think, I mean, I actually think Anthony Davis fit with Detroit is okay. I mean, I think, you know, I think it depends on what the Pistons are trying to do. Right? But I think like you were saying, Vinnie, Tom Gores has never been afraid to spend money. And I, I think you talk to people either in past regimes or the current one, like resources are never really a question. And like he's always back. I mean, look, he just spent $80 million to go get Monty Williams, right? Griffin deal. Like he, he's proven he's well. But I mean it, like, in all sincerity, it's not like, it's not like this is a market where you go in there, go, well, are they going to be willing to pay the tax? Like he's going to pay the tax. I think like you said, the question is how do you allocate your resources? And I, I do think the ad thing I think is interesting to me if they do end up looking at trying to upgrade because like we've talked about, if you're trading for Lowry Marketing or say Jaron Jackson Jr. Becomes available or one of these other long term, mid 20 to late 20s guys in the, in the range we're talking about, right? Memphis, Utah, they're going to be asking for a ton. Like as we've laid out if Dallas ends up trading Anthony Davis, the market's not going to be great. So you might be able to get a guy like Anthony Davis for a relatively small current price. And yes, you have the next two years at a big number, but you're still just gradually working into paying a Sar Thompson, paying Ron Holland, paying Jalen Duran, painting, paying Jaden Ivey. And you might be able to massage that and make that work. And also, by the way, get a really good player and have a chance in a like, I would argue, as wide open a conference as we've ever seen to really make a run. If you're Detroit with the group they have.
- [45:50]
Tim McMahon
I don't want to offend people in Memphis. I've got a lot of friends there. I'm always well received and very popular with their fan base. I gotta tell you, you said Jaren Jackson Jr. And my heart skipped a beat. Michigan state Jaren Jackson Jr. On that Pistons team. Oh man, that's something you could talk me into. The Pistons maybe throwing a bunch of stuff in the pot there now. But listen, just signed a contract with with the Grizzlies. You know my I don't want to get ahead of ourselves on that one. I just got a little excited.
- [46:22]
Vince Goodwill
I'm a little weary on that one. Just because when you look at the hole, the one hole that this team does have, I don't think it's defensively right. You're talking about a top three, top four team in defensive efficiency. When you got Jalen Duran defending the Realm, Isaiah Stewart defending the Realm. I feel like you're, you're short up there. They're not one of the top 10 teams at three point shooting. Like when they've gotten in trouble this year and they haven't gotten in a lot of trouble when they had gotten in trouble this year in short stretches is because they don't have enough space to make shots or they don't have enough space for K. Cunningham to move. Now granted, some of that could be the injuries. Tobias Harris was missed time. Jay Nivey just got back on the floor. So I think it's very you have to be very careful about not seeing it through before adding and making the big splash. Like part of part of people there want to see all of this marinate before going all in. Because once you go all in, the clock starts ticking on J.B. bickerstaff, the clock starts ticking on Trajan Langdon. You can afford to let your young players and and Tim talks about this all the time about you Know, it. It sounds like pocket watching, but the Pistons are in a very advantageous position financially right now. Even if you have to play your young players, you're still paying them on rookies. Rookie scale, extension prices, not big boy maxes.
- [47:46]
Brian Windhorst
Yeah, let's. So let's just be. I think if the Pistons do anything, I think unless you're getting one of the MVP candidates. Okay. You know, I don't think you're going to be able to pull Jalen Duran or Sar Thompson out of there. Okay. And so you got to plan on paying them. So. Jalen Duran will be a restricted free agent next summer. He and the Pistons had discussions this last fall. The word going around the NBA is that Duran wanted something per year that started with a 3. The Pistons weren't willing to go that high. And in fact, none of the guys who got extensions this fall bottemps who got the most money, it was Keegan.
- [48:31]
Tim Bontemps
Murray was like 27, 28. And I. I would say universally around the league that was seen as an ass. That didn't really make a lot of sense.
- [48:39]
Tim McMahon
If I'm advising Jalen Durham, I would say stick with that price, buddy. The price ain't coming down based on what he's done.
- [48:47]
Tim Bontemps
Well, he's come out and played great, which is a great problem for the pits and sack.
- [48:51]
Brian Windhorst
Okay, so we'll see what he has to finish it off and all this stuff. But, you know, that's not going to be cheap. Cade Cunningham hit supermax or hit the Rose provision, whatever you want to call it. His contract is now starting next year. Is over 50 million going forward a year. Congratulations to him. He has earned it. And then you got a Sar Thompson who has one year left after this year, and then you're going to have to pay him. Now, I don't know what that price will be, but it's not going to be 11 million a year, which is what. What he's at. So right when you're like, now, look, if you're the Pistons and you think you can win the championship this year, or you could have a shot at this year. Bon Temps. What's the Daryl morey sort of 5% rule? Yeah, if they think they're 5%, how would he know? Well, we like. I like the concept. Even if it's, you know.
- [49:36]
Vince Goodwill
I'm just joking. It was just. It was just out there.
- [49:37]
Om Yung Masuk
I'm sorry.
- [49:38]
Vince Goodwill
I'm sorry.
- [49:38]
Brian Windhorst
Anyway, I'm just saying this, like the.
- [49:41]
Tim McMahon
95 bit him a lot.
- [49:43]
Brian Windhorst
Yeah, well, the 95 is 95. While everyone's trying to put a player on the Pistons roster. Keep in mind, you know, whether that guy makes 50 million or in the case of Anthony Davis makes 60 million in, you know, in a year or two. Just keep in mind the Pistons gotta, gotta make sure they take care of the guys that they put them together to do this. Now, I don't think this, he's never claimed this, but the Masai Ujiri rule that I know, that I've talked to Masai about, you know, the lesson that he learned as he tried to build contenders is if you're going to win it, you got to absolutely do everything you can to maximize the talent. So, you know, the Messiah Giri rule is you go get that player, then you got the Sam Presti rule, which is, I don't need to necessarily get that player. Just because you say that I need another player, I think my team might be good enough. And Sam Presti didn't go out and do that. Although they went on guys. They.
- [50:33]
Tim Bontemps
Hartenstein, I was going to say, they went and got Alex Caruso and Isaiah Hartenstein and then they won. They didn't get a superstar, but they got guys that fit the exact.
- [50:40]
Brian Windhorst
Well, what you're talking about is super well. And this is what I'm saying. You're talking, you know, not you specifically, but you talk about Anthony Davis, Lowry market, and those are all star level players.
- [50:50]
Tim Bontemps
Well, Vinnie, I, you're as. And listen, you're our resident Detroit guy. I am looking at the Pistons. The thing that I. Vinnie's. Trust me, Vinnie's always going to be our resident Detroit guy. It will say that. Um, the thing that I think Detroit needs more than even necessarily one of these bigs is like you hinted at it before, but it's just a flat out second scoring option next to Cade. Like. And I, I would almost say like, ironically, I know he's hurt right now, but I think the guy on the Mavs that if he became available, I think would be a way better fit for the Pistons would be to get Kyrie Irving and put him next to Cade Cunningham. I'm not saying Kyrie's getting traded, but like, to me, I think that if they like this, it's sort of the discussion we had all last year with Oklahoma City where the question was, was Jalen Williams, who had a rough playoff series against Dallas two years ago, going to be able to step up when it was required in the playoffs? Now he obviously was awesome in the playoffs, had the 40 piece in the finals, helped them win the title, but like, if you typically look at these teams, you need to have two perimeter scorers. They've obviously got Cade. Jalen Dern has been a 20 point a game guy in the paint, but he's doing that on sort of, you know, workman like stuff. You're not going to have him as a real second option. I'll take in the playoffs. So, like, whatever they end up doing, if they do make a swing in the trade market, I think that's the, the weakness that I think they have to address is to get a guy to go with Cade. So it's not on. All on Cade to try to do it in the playoffs against big time opponents.
- [52:22]
Tim McMahon
Well, and Vinnie, where are they on Ivy? Like, you know, are they holding out hope that J. Nivey can prove himself in that role now that he's back?
- [52:35]
Vince Goodwill
That's the thing, Tim, is that J. Nivey is still their guy. Like they didn't. Trajan Langdon did the smartest thing that I think any GM could have come in and done after a team won just 14 games. He didn't look at these guys and say, hey, you're a bunch of losers. I'm gonna trade you off because the juju is bad. He just surrounded them with the veterans and said, hey, let's just see. Remember, these aren't like great star level veterans. It's stable. Tobias Harris, Tim Hardaway, Jr. Malik Beasley, and then the young guys got to grow on their own. So there's nothing.
- [53:11]
Tim McMahon
Malik Beasley.
- [53:11]
Vince Goodwill
Yes, yes, and Beasley and Beasley, but there's nothing that leads me to think that they're not going to give Jay Nivey, who shot 43% last year on catch and shoot threes on small volume, to see if he's the guy that can create his own shot. Like, to me, it's less about. It's less about what you can do with Cade, it's more about what you can do without Cade. To be less cade dependent. I mean, to have a guy who doesn't have to eat off of Cade Cunningham, like a name that intrigues me and I haven't talked about this with the Pistons, but I know that this guy is starting to get out there a little bit. Like we're looking at these big names, Kyrie or Anthony Davis or Laurie Markkanen. What about a guy like Kobe White in Chicago on an affordable contract and we. And Chicago is starting to sniff around just a little bit. And it's hard to make a trade in the division. It's hard to make a trade up i94 it's hard to make a trade with two hated rivals like that. At least they used to be. But I think it's those sort of moves around the field fringes that would.
- [54:13]
Tim Bontemps
Be awesome for the Pistons to interrupt. But he would be great.
- [54:17]
Vince Goodwill
And here's the other thing for me, and I'm a big history guy, modern NBA history. So I mean, 40 years, there has never or there's been one team in the history that I can think of that went from not winning a single playoff series to winning the championship or at least getting to the finals the very next year. And that was the 0708 Celtics, who went from being historically bad to getting Ray Allen and Kevin Garnett on draft night. Even Oklahoma City last year they had the experience of winning a playoff series and then getting to a high level second round series against Dallas the next year. So I don't think there's any rush on these guys saying we got to get to the Finals. Nah, I don't think they're afraid of Boston with Jason Tatum down the line. I think they're trying to build a sustainable model of something that if we can contend right now, cool. But let's just see how this thing simmers in the meantime.
- [55:06]
Tim McMahon
Well, and when you mentioned the Thunder, and I think there is a comparison here in the sense of went through a rebuild, bunch of homegrown talent that is blossoming. Do you speed things up with a superstar? How much do you factor in the future payroll? And part of Presti's calculus there was like, hey, let's see what we've got. Let's see if we've got the star core already in place. Let's give these guys a chance. And obviously they proved that they did. I think you can also look at the Rockets and the one thing the Rockets did not want to do was take a big swing at a star that would shorten their Runway. You know, they weren't going to give up what they considered to be their star potential star foundation. Look, as much lip service as they gave us, clearly Jalen Green wasn't part of that. They managed to kind of have make a have your cake and eat it too move with kd where they got that proven star, proven veteran star, and they got him to take a little bit less on an extension and they got to do it without giving up anything that they felt was going to shorten their Runway as a contender. So, you know, the Herschel Walker deal is up.
- [56:25]
Vince Goodwill
Like, do you. I mean, I hope people understand what I'm trying to say when I say like nope or Rudy Gobert. How about that? The Herschel Walker Walker deal.
- [56:33]
Tim McMahon
I'm in Dallas. People around here understand the Herschel Walker trade.
- [56:36]
Vince Goodwill
I got it.
- [56:36]
Tim McMahon
I got you people.
- [56:38]
Tim Bontemps
People under 40. People under 40 do not though. So I do think you should explain it.
- [56:42]
Vince Goodwill
That's why I said Rudy Gobert. Like the days of giving or Mikhail Bridges.
- [56:47]
Jamal Collier
Right.
- [56:47]
Vince Goodwill
The days of giving all your players and all your picks for one guy in today's salary cap climate, second apron, you know climate. You got to be able to maintain your picks and you got to be able to hit on your picks. Especially if you're not like the Lakers or the or not even the Knicks. The Lakers are the only team that can afford to not hit on their picks and wind up having Luka Doncic fall into their lap or have LeBron James fall into their lap. Everybody else has to be smart and strategic about this. So there you're not. Even if you trade for Lowry Marketing, you ain't getting you Danny ain't getting no 5 picks and 4 players and.
- [57:25]
Brian Windhorst
All that challenge accept.
- [57:26]
Vince Goodwill
That ain't happening.
- [57:29]
Brian Windhorst
No, I would agree with you. No, we're especially we're at the era where the pace is faster and the injuries are up. Everybody needs depth right now. The teams that are doing really well are teams that have depth. All right, Vince, thank you so much for coming and joining us on friendsgiving. Wendy, I wish you respectful luck on Saturday afternoon.
- [57:49]
Vince Goodwill
You beat me to it. I don't wish you guys any luck at all. I just hope that our friendship can stand the test of whatever's going to happen on Saturday.
- [57:58]
Brian Windhorst
Vince is a Michigan guy. I'm an Ohio State fan and it's been a rough decade, but we persevere. My whole childhood was John Cooper. Vince. I mean I can take it. I can take it.
- [58:14]
Vince Goodwill
Hello Heisman.
- [58:16]
Tim Bontemps
Ryan's always happy when he's grumpy anyway, so a was who loss is always something he can revel in even though he is mad about it. So it'll be all right either way.
- [58:24]
Tim McMahon
More Hoop Collective podcast after this Lids.
- [58:28]
Brian Windhorst
Is your home for the best NBA gear this holiday season from new era and Mitchell and Ness get the latest caps, jerseys and tees including the NBA City Edition collection. Shopping for yourself or somebody else? Stop by the custom zone to add a personal touch. Text NBA to 29017 that's 29017 to sign up for text messaging and receive a coupon for 20% off your next in store headwear or apparel purchase exclusions and message and data rates apply. See Alids Teammate for details. This episode is brought to you by Square. Your Favorite Neighborhood Spots Run on Square There are certain businesses that truly define a neighborhood. Places where the lights are always on, the service feels personal, and the atmosphere feels like an extension of home. Whether it's Sal's Gelato in Akron, Ohio, or the Mill on Leavenworth in Omaha, Nebraska, these businesses create the heartbeat of a community. They're where connections are made, stories are shared, and memories are built. From a quick lunch with co workers to cheering on the home team with neighbors, these spots bring people together in meaningful ways. When neighborhood businesses thrive, the whole neighborhood thrives. Every dollar spent locally stays in the community and supports the people behind the counter, the staff in the kitchen, and the owners who put their heart into everything they do. So take this as your excuse to go visit your favorite local spot, grab a coffee, sit down for a meal, or just stop in to say hello. Square is a proud partner of more than 4 million million neighborhood businesses around the world. You can go to square.com gohoop to learn more. But before you go support your favorite neighborhood spot, you'll be happy you did Square. See you in the neighborhood. As you know, managing maintenance, repair and operations is never easy. But for the ones who rise to the challenge, Grainger has your back. From professional grade products you can count on to fast, dependable delivery, they're there to help you keep things running smoothly. Plus, our technical product specialists are here to help answer your toughest questions. And because Granger knows safety is always a priority, they're committed to being your partner in protecting both your people and your facilities. Call 1-800-GRAINGER click granger.com or just stop by. Okay, now joining us and I not sure I've ever thought I would say this, but just off the courthouse steps in Brooklyn, New York, our California girl, Ramona Shelburne.
- [60:44]
Ramona Shelburne
You know, I've been to courthouses before, Brian. I am not a lawyer, but I can play one on TV sometimes. And I do know how to read a court document if I take my time with it and don't get distracted. But this was the first time I went to a real criminal proceeding. I've been to a lot of civil cases in my day, but look, I got a, I got a real credential.
- [61:02]
Brian Windhorst
Look at this.
- [61:03]
Ramona Shelburne
Says U.S. u.S. District.
- [61:05]
Brian Windhorst
Well, you like I'm on.
- [61:07]
Ramona Shelburne
You know, that's pretty.
- [61:08]
Brian Windhorst
I will say this. In the past you've you and I have reviewed bus family court documents.
- [61:14]
Ramona Shelburne
Oh yeah, yeah.
- [61:15]
Brian Windhorst
We.
- [61:15]
Ramona Shelburne
We got a copy of the trust. Yeah, that was.
- [61:18]
Brian Windhorst
Which is now dissolved. Right. Like.
- [61:21]
Ramona Shelburne
No, I think there's still a trust. Actually, I have a little. You know what? Before we get into today's proceedings, let me go back to the Bus family sale.
- [61:29]
Tim Bontemps
Yeah.
- [61:31]
Brian Windhorst
How's Thanksgiving dinner at the Bus House this week?
- [61:34]
Ramona Shelburne
Well, there was a time. This is a little story time with Momo. Sorry. I have been in a position in my career where I think I know all six Bus kids pretty well. I don't know. The one who came out of nowhere, there was a Sean Buss. Yeah, I don't know. That was the one who. I don't. Is that his last name even?
- [61:55]
Brian Windhorst
Well, Sean Buss was one of the people who was fired this week. Who was.
- [61:59]
Ramona Shelburne
No, no, not Shawn. Sean, Joey and Jesse.
- [62:02]
Brian Windhorst
Well, Joey and No, Sean Buss was fired too. Their half brother who was in the scouting department, which I did not know.
- [62:09]
Ramona Shelburne
I didn't know that either.
- [62:10]
Brian Windhorst
They share the same munner. I could be wrong about this way. Dave McMenamine told it to me.
- [62:15]
Ramona Shelburne
Yes.
- [62:15]
Brian Windhorst
He reported that someone named Sean Buss was fired. I did not know.
- [62:18]
Ramona Shelburne
I don't know Sean Buss.
- [62:20]
Brian Windhorst
But anyway, go ahead.
- [62:21]
Ramona Shelburne
I know a Riley Buss. I know a Janie Buss. I know. I know Joey and Jesse. I know Jim and Johnny and Jeannie and all of them. And anyway, so I think the. But. So the family trust still exists. And the family trust is the one that actually owns the. It's somewhere between 15 and 18%. I've always heard 18%, but I haven't seen the document saying it's 18%. So let's just say it's between 15 and 18. They still own those shares. It's there. So all six kids still have their. Their portion of those shares because in the sale that went to Mark Walter, they only sold, I think 48%.
- [62:58]
Tim Bontemps
So.
- [62:59]
Ramona Shelburne
That he got to, you know, they sold 14% of their 66%. So let's. Yeah, we can do some math. I can't do it in my head. Didn't sleep so much last night.
- [63:07]
Brian Windhorst
Anyway, I heard that Regardless of the $10 billion figure, I heard each bus child got over 900 when everything was factored in. The check that they got a few weeks ago was 900 something million.
- [63:19]
Ramona Shelburne
Not bad.
- [63:19]
Brian Windhorst
That's what I heard.
- [63:20]
Ramona Shelburne
It's not bad. But I will say this. There's something I think we could correct the record on a little bit. They, you know, initially, a lot of the. The thought was maybe Joey and Jesse were Fired because they voted against the sale. You know, there. There was a vote, and I think several of us reported that it wasn't unanimous. From what I understand, Brian, I think when all the votes were tallied, it was unanimous that the younger brothers did vote for the sale eventually.
- [63:51]
Brian Windhorst
Interesting.
- [63:52]
Ramona Shelburne
But when the story came out. So the votes were due on a Friday, and I believe the story came on a Wednesday. Okay, so Shams broke this before. This is how good Shams is. He breaks it before they even had all the votes counted. Okay. That's how good he is. Okay. But once you got to four, it was four.
- [64:09]
Brian Windhorst
Right. The pledged votes. You know, maybe that's why Joey and Jesse voted. They knew how it was going to.
- [64:14]
Ramona Shelburne
Go, but I think that's what happened. So the story breaks, and I think they. In the interest of family harmony and to send the right message of collaboration, I think eventually they voted for it or abstained. So I don't want to say it was unanimous, but I believe that it was that no one voted against it. I'll say it like that.
- [64:32]
Brian Windhorst
Can I say something about Jeannie?
- [64:34]
Ramona Shelburne
Yeah.
- [64:35]
Brian Windhorst
She's. She's very, very well liked in the NBA. Right. And she's liked in Los Angeles. Maybe not everybody. And maybe people have, you know, she. They can look at certain decisions. She's her. Her curating her, her, you know, her respect level. People in the league really like her. She has a very pleasant way about her.
- [64:59]
Ramona Shelburne
Yeah. If you talk to other owners or people around the league that have nothing to do with Los Angeles, they. They like dealing with her.
- [65:06]
Brian Windhorst
Let me say this about Jeannie Buss. Her last name is Bus, and correct me if I'm wrong, but she has five. Five brothers and sisters, and she's now fired three of them.
- [65:25]
Ramona Shelburne
That's right.
- [65:26]
Brian Windhorst
Yeah.
- [65:27]
Ramona Shelburne
Jim got fired and then Joey and Jesse.
- [65:29]
Brian Windhorst
Yeah, right. And she sued two of them.
- [65:32]
Ramona Shelburne
Yeah, well, they deserved. I mean, I, like, I should.
- [65:34]
Brian Windhorst
Oh, no, hey, listen, I'm not taking a side. They were trying to.
- [65:37]
Ramona Shelburne
It was a palace coup, so. Yeah. Okay.
- [65:40]
Brian Windhorst
Hey, I'm just. To be clear, I'm not taking a side. I am just saying that this woman is not afraid, you know, is not afraid to handle what she thinks is business, even if it means firing her brothers and sisters. You know, he has never fired her sister. To my knowledge, firing her brothers Jeannie.
- [65:57]
Ramona Shelburne
And Janie aren't very good terms. Janie still does work with the Laker Foundation.
- [66:00]
Brian Windhorst
Yeah. Okay. So, Ramona, I'm just like. And I mean, like, I learned a lot of this through Your reporting. Yeah, you know, over the years, you know, don't mess with Jeannie Buss, you know, was what I'm saying. It's kind of like I, I feel the same way about Gail Benson. I don't know Gail Benson, the owner of the, of the, of the Pelicans. But she went to court and won a blood feud with her late husband's children for control of the Saints and the Pelicans. And I would just say do not be very careful messing with Gail. I have seen her go into a battle and emerge with the carcasses behind her. So I would just say you may, you know, she, you know, Gail Benson dresses in. I don't want to speculate what kind of clothes she has, but she is like the, you know, dresses to the nine, you know. Yeah. She is, carries around a $10,000 purse and emerges from a hundred thousand dollar Mercedes. And her hair is always perfect. And you think that she's this prim and proper lady. She will brawl and Jeannie is not that way. Jeannie is a lot more casual, but she will brawl too. And that's what I'm taking, that's what I'm just saying is she's fired three of her brothers.
- [67:18]
Ramona Shelburne
Okay, so let's, let's back up a little bit though, to the Joey and Jesse situation. I think a lot of this is if you're close to the situation, it's not, it was not surprising at all that this happened. Okay. I think there has been a distance between the younger brothers and Genie for quite some time. I think in one of his interviews, Jesse even said, I haven't been, I haven't spoken to my sister in five months.
- [67:44]
Brian Windhorst
Was crazy. That was jaw dropping.
- [67:46]
Ramona Shelburne
Yeah.
- [67:46]
Brian Windhorst
Like the athletic.
- [67:47]
Ramona Shelburne
This is, this is, from what I, you know, that, that relationship, those two relationships. And I would say it's maybe more so Jesse than Joey. Joey I think is still, you know, around the offices more and a little more involved, but because they were both fired, we grouped them together. But, you know, I don't think that's been a good relationship for at least the last two years. And I don't know if there was any specific thing that degraded that relationship because if you remember, when she fired Jim and that was part of the larger case where Johnny and Jim had sort of teamed up to try to force Jeannie out as the head of the, as the head of the. There was three of them and they, they started, it was, you know, two boys and one girl. Even though she was the head of the board of Directors. They started.
- [68:36]
Brian Windhorst
Yeah, they were the trustees. Right? They were the trustees. And they tried to say, hey, we're the trustees, and we're gonna outvote you two to one. And she's like, the hell you are.
- [68:44]
Ramona Shelburne
Yeah, well, and then they, you know, there was. There was a. There was a legal maneuver. Okay. And so it didn't work. She had a better lawyer than they did. And. And his name was Adam Streisand. He was. He's one of the best trusted attorneys. He's, you know, if you find anybody who's had some esteem, the quotes that.
- [68:57]
Brian Windhorst
He gave you, there's a story that you wrote all about this. Like, eight years ago. He gave you some amazing on the record quotes.
- [69:03]
Ramona Shelburne
He's, he's, he's a. He's a well known. If you Google Adam Streisand, he's. I think he's worked with Britney Spears. He's done, you know, every. Every major trust case in la, like Adams, you want him on your team. Okay, so. So Jeannie had a better lawyer, and she won that one. But the younger brother stood with her on that. At that time, it was four to two the other way. It was Jeannie, Janie, Joey and Jesse, and then Jim and Johnny were on one side, and now we've kind of gone to the other side.
- [69:30]
Brian Windhorst
She swung around and joined with the older. No, that's what I'm saying. I'm not saying, I'm saying this. I don't know about admiration. I'm just saying, like, this went down like. Yeah, she may have. She may have a pleasant way about her and, you know, sort of a pleasant voice, but, you know, there was a reason why, you know, and in.
- [69:48]
Ramona Shelburne
That, Jones heard him either.
- [69:50]
Brian Windhorst
That's right. He looked at all six of his kids and he said, you, Jeannie, you're. And multiple times in that document, it said, genie is going to run the business. And, you know, whatever you want to say about, you know, Dr. Buss, he was a businessman, too. Yeah, he was a playboy. He messed around, but when it mattered, he kicked Shaq to the curb. Okay, he did.
- [70:09]
Ramona Shelburne
You're right. He did.
- [70:10]
Brian Windhorst
And his daughter.
- [70:12]
Ramona Shelburne
He traded Shaq. Yeah, that's right. Well, and I'll say this, and this is the last we'll say about this part, but there is a famous Kobe Bryant quote about this. Kobe and Jeannie had talked before she made the decision to fire Mitch Kupchak and Jim Buss and then installed Kobe's former agent, Rob Palenka. Okay. And they had a conversation, and Kobi this is the height of Game of Thrones popularity, right? And Coby said, you know, you need to be like Daenerys Targaryen, the mother of dragons. Like, you're the mother of dragons right now. And if you watch that show, you know what Daenerys Targaryen does? Like, she gets on that dragon, and the dragon breathes fire and just wipes everybody out. Like, you cannot be afraid to go do that. Like, and at the beginning of that show, you have to be able to swing your sword. Like, if you're gonna off somebody, you swing your sword. By the end of it, you got the woman on the dragon taking everyone out. So your point is well taken.
- [71:08]
Brian Windhorst
All right, you know what?
- [71:10]
Ramona Shelburne
I'm sorry. One post tripped. It also does answer the question of Mark Walter has put Jeanie Buss in, like, has left her in her position. Right, Right. And I got asked seven different ways, whose decision was it to fire the brothers? And I will tell you the answer is it was Jeannie's decision in consultation with everyone else around. Like, she's not gonna do that without. To Mark Walter. Okay? He's gonna know.
- [71:35]
Brian Windhorst
But only a. Only a bus can fire a bus. They. They still are owners of the team, and if they just wanted to leave them on, you know.
- [71:44]
Ramona Shelburne
Yeah.
- [71:44]
Brian Windhorst
He obviously had to use his words to the athletic. He'd been siloed. And they could have just left him siloed for another decade.
- [71:51]
Ramona Shelburne
They could have. Yeah.
- [71:52]
Brian Windhorst
But only, like, people were saying to me, is this Rob Polinka? I go, no, no, no, no, no.
- [71:56]
Ramona Shelburne
No, no, no, no.
- [71:57]
Brian Windhorst
Only a bus can fire a bus.
- [71:59]
Ramona Shelburne
And also, it's also the beginning of what we're going to see is a pretty. Pretty big makeover with the Lakers that's already starting as we. You know, I had a story last week saying, you know, Farhan Zaidi, who was the GM of the Giants a little while ago? He's a special advisor. That's a. It's one of those titles that, you know, if you're special advisor to the owner, that just means he likes you and thinks you're really smart and gives you a bunch of projects. Right. So Farhan Zaidi's new project is with the Lakers and the Sparks and all the other sports teams that Mark Walter. Walter owns. And Andrew Friedman consults as well. So if you're a Dodger fan, you know Andrew Friedman's name pretty well. It's a pretty iq. I think maybe he might have the high school.
- [72:37]
Brian Windhorst
He's had mild success with the Dodgers. I don't follow baseball very closely. Yes. And I, and by the way, I've seen this said a thousand times. Let me be a thousand to one. We know that baseball and the NBA different. We know you can't.
- [72:51]
Ramona Shelburne
Yes. They don't have a second apron, et.
- [72:53]
Brian Windhorst
Cetera, et cetera, for contracts for 17 years.
- [72:56]
Ramona Shelburne
And also, let's say this, neither Andrew Friedman or Farhan Zaidi is trying to run the Lakers. They're not trying to take Rob Pelinka's job. They're happy with the Dodgers. This is more like a big corporate entity which is called TWG Sports. It's kind of the same way you would see Dave Schaller, our friend in Philadelphia, who with the Sixers. He helps out with the Commanders because Josh Harris owns both of them.
- [73:19]
Brian Windhorst
Look, let me just say this. The Lakers are in need of modernization and modernization is happening.
- [73:28]
Ramona Shelburne
They're about to get along.
- [73:29]
Brian Windhorst
Though. I do want to talk to you while you're in Brooklyn there because you went to federal court today because we're filming, we're taping this, filming this on Monday. And you, you were there for Chauncey and the other 31 defendants in the gambling case. And you know where this hit home for me about how serious a trouble the Chauncey is in. I mean, obviously you get brought in a federal court case, I understand you're in serious trouble. But his bond was set or his bail was set at $5 million.
- [73:58]
Ramona Shelburne
Yeah, I was going through all of them and all the 31 defendants, and I did find one. Most, the highest ones I found were 3 million for a couple of the real guys who were tied to the, to the crime families. There was another guy I found, his name was, last name was Schneiderman. He's. He paid 5 million also. Those are the Chauncey and this other guy had a 5 million dollar bill. But I think that's more a question of means rather than how much the evidence is on you or whatever it is. I think they look at, you know, how much you make. I mean, there's a lot of bonds in here that I'm looking at these documents right in front of me. 100,000, 50,000. I mean, I don't think 50 hundred thousands and, you know, there's 200 thousands, whatever. But it seems like, I think it's more a question of means because one of the things the judge said today was two, about two thirds of the 31 defendants have public defenders in this case.
- [74:51]
Brian Windhorst
Yeah, I, that's, that would not make me feel good if I was one of the higher up charged people in this. Because, you know, I don't. That sounds like to me when I hear there's, you know, if you say there's 2/3 of the 30, let's say.
- [75:05]
Ramona Shelburne
There'S 20 or 20. 20.
- [75:08]
Brian Windhorst
That sounds like 20 people who have nothing really to lose and only have one thing to bargain with and that's information. So that would feel, that would make me not feel good. I would, I would not feel good about this. Did you think that you would ever be in federal court with accused mobsters?
- [75:27]
Ramona Shelburne
No, I, I was. It was quite a scene. Brian. I will say this. There were some, there were some dudes there I would not want to mess with. They were. There were, there were some guys there. I was like, oh, I would, I could see that. Yeah. You know, and you kind of read the profiles of what they do for a living or whatever it is, how they describe themselves. But, but yeah, that was, that was an interesting. There was two. There was two defendants who had actually been in prison. They had not been released on bail. And so they got brought in by the federal marshal. And I was. And the marshal looks like exactly what you think a federal marshal is going to look like. You know, you don't mess with that guy either. But it was, it was an interesting scene for me because, you know, I knew Chauncey pretty well. I worked with him when he was at espn. We sat in green rooms together in Bristol, Connecticut. And, and I. He came in and he, you know, he didn't say anything to anybody when he walked in. Just kept his head down. But when he got into the courtroom, we were all the media is kind of off on one side. And he scanned around the first look through. He kind of had that, you know, that look where you're not making eye contact. But then he looked around again and we did make eye contact and I kind of gave him a nod like hello and he nodded back like he, he was not afraid to be seen. I don't know if I'm the only person he knew in the gallery or even in the courtroom. And then Damon Jones came in at one point. Those two, obviously, as you know, you wrote a story on him. Those two were pretty close in their day. They've lived together during COVID I think they all lived at Chauncey's house in Colorado. And Damon came in and he walked right by Chauncey. I did not see them make any eye contact or say anything to each other. And Damon has a court appointed attorney and so it's a Very. It's a very interesting, it's very. It was an interesting scene. I also, you know, outside. You walk outside of the courthouse and just in the hallway there, I saw Chauncey and I saw his wife and his three daughters were there. We were two feet away from each other. I could have shook his hand, but I thought that was inappropriate. So I just kind of nodded at him and I said hello and he said, hi Ramona. And it was like all kind of normal and. Except we're in a very abnormal situation. And I thought the hardest part for me to watch was really when his wife and daughter had to come out of the audience to co. Sign the bond that he was posting. And so, you know, they had to get up and walk over there and be sworn in by the judge and asked if they knew the conditions of he. If he violates any of the bail conditions and what happens to them. And they both said they did and they had to sign it. And I don't know, that was, that was, that was a pretty human moment there.
- [78:09]
Brian Windhorst
Yeah, that. I mean, look, I don't. Guilt or innocence, that'll be determined later. It's tough on a personal level when you know them. You know, I wrote a story on, on Damon Jones that published on Monday. Damon is not my friend, but I have known him for 20 years. And you know, when I was reporting on this story basically about how broke he is and I talking to people about how he was always asking for money and everything like that, I mean, it made me sad. I was sad to do that story because, you know, I had been, you know, look, I've been there when Damon's had some of the highest moments of his career.
- [78:47]
Ramona Shelburne
Yeah.
- [78:48]
Brian Windhorst
And so, you know, this is what happens in this business that we're in. We see people at their highest and lowest, but this is obviously a different level. You lose an athletic competition, it can be very, very painful and it can infect your life and all that stuff. But also, you know, I was, I was there the day Damon signed his 16 million dollar contract. I was there the day that he, that he hit the shot that defined his career. A game winner that won a playoff series. I was there in the locker room when they won the championship in 2016, when he was on the Cav staff and he was smoking a cigar in the locker room. Yeah, in, in Golden State. You were there that night too. And you know, so anyway, you know, and it's a tough situation but. But you've already done some good reporting on this. You've written about the situation in Portland. And I assume I look forward to more of your Ramona style reporting because. Because this is unfortunately going to be a long case.
- [79:43]
Ramona Shelburne
Yeah. The judge in the case said, I know this. With the amount of data, they said there's a terabyte of data they have to turn over in discovery. One of the lawyers said this could take years. And the judge said, well, my intention is not for it to take years. My intention is for us to be in court by September of next year. September of next year. What do you think, Brian, chances of that?
- [80:02]
Brian Windhorst
Well, I do not think it will take. I would bet more on years in September of next year. Yeah, but. All right, Ramona will travel safe back to your family for a holiday. Next on NEXT friendsgiving. We'll have more fun things to talk about.
- [80:18]
Ramona Shelburne
We did good last year. We talked about my show last year. That was a good one.
- [80:21]
Brian Windhorst
Yes, your show, which was amazing.
- [80:24]
Ramona Shelburne
Thank you.
- [80:24]
Brian Windhorst
On the Clippers. You might. Maybe you'll do a show on this Monday.
- [80:28]
Ramona Shelburne
It'll be a very different tone. I don't know that. I mean, when I went to court for the Clipper case, it was Donald Sterling showed up in his sandals, you know, and it was civil court in la and we were all live tweeting it. This was, they, they confiscated our phones at the entrance. And you were just in there. It's a very different, very different vibe being in a federal court with felony charges hanging over people's heads.
- [80:49]
Brian Windhorst
All right, Ramona, thank you so much. We'll talk to you soon.
- [80:52]
Tim Bontemps
More Hoop Collective podcast after this.
- [80:55]
Brian Windhorst
So I've got a question for all the gamers out there. Are you seriously gonna miss out on Alienware's biggest gaming sale of the year? I mean, some of these are Black Friday prices we're talking about, so it's not just another sale. I took a look. This is some pretty big bang for your buck. You know, it's Alienware with some of the most advanced engineering out there with systems at the top of the reviewers lists. And what about that gift for yourself? Gift yourself a new Alienware 16 Area 51 gaming laptop. I mean, this thing's got performance at the absolute next level with Intel Core Ultra processors. And even better, you can get it during Black Friday. Plus, you can save on all kinds of displays and accessories like the Alienware 27 4K QD OLED gaming monitor for ultimate visual fidelity. These are really incredible deals on PCs with otherworldly performance. So visit alienware.com deal soon and grab what you can before their Biggest sale of the year goes dark. Transform your home during blinds.com's Black Friday Super Sale. Get up to 50% off site wide, plus huge doorbuster deals on on popular styles. Go DIY and do it all 100% online. Or choose white glove service with expert design help and professional installation, Both backed.
- [82:06]
Jamal Collier
By Blinds.com's 100% satisfaction guarantee.
- [82:10]
Brian Windhorst
Blinds.com's Black Friday Super Sale is here. Save up to 50% site wide and get a free professional measure.
- [82:16]
Tim McMahon
Limited time offer rules and restrictions apply. See blinds.com for details.
- [82:25]
Brian Windhorst
Okay. Joining us now from Chicago, Illinois, it's our man, Jamal Collier, who actually has been married since the last time I think we had you on. You got married earlier this year.
- [82:37]
Jamal Collier
Yeah. Thank you.
- [82:38]
Brian Windhorst
If we didn't. If we didn't. If we did have you on, I apologize for forgetting, but belated congratulations on the nuptial.
- [82:44]
Jamal Collier
Thank you. Honestly, the biggest. It's been a huge year, but I think the biggest highlight, for sure, for me, not even. I think it definitely was very good.
- [82:52]
Brian Windhorst
It was. It was. It was more of a highlight than the Blazers Bucks game that you were going to go to tonight but then canceled. I can't believe it.
- [83:00]
Jamal Collier
Yeah, it was. It was an easy decision there.
- [83:03]
Brian Windhorst
The Bucks have had a complicated season, to say the least. And I know that Giannis has entered your life in many ways in the last five years, and I know that, you know, Giannis is on the record as saying certain things, but I also know that I've been in organizations, I've been with organizations that are scared to their core. You know, I can remember, for example, in the preseason, Anthony Davis's last year in New Orleans. I went down there for a preseason game to interview Anthony Davis, and I listened to everything that the Pelicans said. I listened to what Dell Demps, the gm, said, I listened to what Anthony said and everything, and I remember going, yeah, they're scared. And he's gone. He's gone. And, you know, that was the year that ended in. That's all, folks, if you remember. And it was. And, you know, and I got that from being around the Cavs, quite frankly, in 2009, 10. You know, they lived every day in fear. Now, the difference between those situations in the Milwaukee situation is that Giannis has won a championship there and his ties are very, very deep. But. So let me just ask you, how does it feel around the Bucs?
- [84:24]
Om Yung Masuk
You know, it.
- [84:25]
Jamal Collier
I don't think it's at that level, and I think the championship really alleviated some of that for Milwaukee, I mean, you know, you guys are always like to talk about actions over words. The actions show you what the Bucks really feel about. They'll do anything to keep Giannis here and have panic. You know, the panic is they don't like to sort of classify some of these moves as panic moves, but, you know, they're pushing their chips in and doubling down and tripling down to make sure that things stay status quo. I think the thing that for them, that they most fall back to is the fact that, you know, once that ball is thrown in the air and once the season starts, Giannis will run through a wall every day. And when he's on the floor and his sort of commitment level to Milwaukee, to winning, to being the best and sort of lifting everybody around him. I don't think Giannis is a guy who spends a lot of time thinking and looking around at everything else at this point, just simply because he is so singularly focused on what he can do to be better and go forward. So the Bucs feel comfort in that, and they feel comfort in knowing they've got a player that's going to be 100% bought in to this team and to this organization while he's wearing the jersey. But the stretch that they're currently in, in the middle of, you know, depending on people listen to this podcast without him, I think is. Is another one that is really eye openening to just how kind of fragile this, this season even is. I mean, they. They started the season, as you kind of mentioned it, it felt like they were a lot better than their, you know, that 8 and 6 record they had when he went out. And now all of a sudden he's been out for just a couple of games and they're under.500 and, you know, outside looking in and what has kind of become a crowded Eastern Conference playoff picture. So that's all to say they felt pretty good once they got to the season with Giannis, that all that stuff was going to sort of disappear because of the team that they had and because of his commitment. But they also kind of recognize, and I think everybody recognizes the fact that, you know, this thing is all really being propped up by him on this roster, and they kind of can't afford any really extended stretches without him.
- [86:39]
Brian Windhorst
Yeah, I will say that's something there's. You could absolutely not question Giannis's effort level. That is one thing that you absolutely could not question. He is absolutely bringing it. Unfortunately, right now he's got that injury. I will say this about Lebron whatever anybody wants to say about LeBron. And as you. And it was, as, you know, as you may have heard, he switched teams three times. He never, in my view, ever gave less than. And that's a. That's a. It's not a controversy anymore. But that was controversial in Cleveland because people thought he quit on the last playoff series he had in 2010. I agree. He did not play well in those. In that. In the end of the. At the end of that playoff series against Boston, he was having this elbow issue, which still is mysterious to this day. But they were getting MRIs on it. It wasn't like it was. It wasn't like he was faking. But I honestly think it was anxiety induced. I think. I think with the big. I think the big things that he had happening in his. In his life and his career, I just think he. I think he kind of. I think. I think the anxiety affected him. Like, if you look at LeBron's career in the playoffs. I'm sorry, I'm going off on a tangent here, Jamal. He pretty much had dominating playoff games. Maybe he had games where he got shut down by like the. The spurs or, you know, but I never thought he choked in a playoff game until 2010. And I thought there was a couple of suspect performances. And then 2011, even after he went to the Heat, I think there was a couple of suspect performances. Game 5 in the series, you know, people talk about in Cleveland, you know, game five of the 2011 finals is, I submit, as the worst game of his career. Anyway, Giannis said. You can certainly not say that about Giannis. He think he is absolutely fulfilling his contract. I don't think that's in doubt at all.
- [88:38]
Jamal Collier
The thing with them right now, I think in. In this stretch without him, though, it's really exposed. Just, you know, I think how much was he was shouldering as well during that opening stretch. And just, you know, it's not just the points, right? The 30 some points is, you know, 15, 16 rebounds. But I mean, he was. He was really their primary pre, you know, playmaker creator, you know, averaging a career high in the six, like their offense. And, you know, Doc Rivers has kind of sort of tried to spin a positive light on this and say, look, we're going to have to find something to run anyway when he's not in the game, and this is going to sort of force us to find some stuff. And Ryan Rollins has been really a revelation for this team and what he's been able to do, but it is, you know, Offensively, it's just really a struggle if everything is not run through him. And for a guy who's been just the mileage that he's kind of had on his career, the, The. The. You know, we, We. You guys have been through it before. You know, he's a guy who normally Anyway is a 60 to 70 game guy. He's not a guy who's. Who's been able. Staying healthy had been the big thing with him the last couple of playoffs anyway be. Before this past year. And I think the formula that they're trying to get through this season with that is so. So, so Giannis dependent, so Giannis centric really in everything that they do. I think that they've got to find other buttons to be able to push and other ways to keep him. If they're going to keep him upright and healthy and playing at this level for an entire season and have a chance to even go anywhere in the playoffs, you know, they. They've really got to kind of discover something here in this stretch.
- [90:18]
Brian Windhorst
All right, we have a special thing about to happen here.
- [90:21]
Tim McMahon
Yo, sorry. Finishing up some chili.
- [90:24]
Jamal Collier
Oh, man. Coming in hot.
- [90:29]
Brian Windhorst
All right. Sorry about that. Due to scheduling weirdness, we didn't have McMahon until now. But McMahon's here.
- [90:36]
Tim McMahon
Howdy, partners. What a. What a warm, welcoming introduction.
- [90:40]
Brian Windhorst
Well, bro, you know, it's gonna be in the middle of a long podcast. I don't want to make this big introduction. I don't.
- [90:46]
Tim McMahon
You know, I only operate well with grand introductions, so I'll give myself one. Jamal, how you doing, man?
- [90:52]
Jamal Collier
It's good to see you, Tim. It's been a long time since the Finals.
- [90:55]
Tim McMahon
Yes, it has been. Just ask the Indiana Pacers, which a team that took up a lot of your time last year. I don't anticipate that being the case. I do believe, though, those Detroit Pistons are more than willing and more than deserving of filling that void. Is Detroit a drive for you?
- [91:14]
Anthony Slater
Is that a.
- [91:15]
Tim McMahon
Is that a flight?
- [91:16]
Jamal Collier
Oh, yeah, no, that's a flat.
- [91:17]
Tim Bontemps
We.
- [91:17]
Jamal Collier
We had a whole transportation segment and where I am lobbying for trains to connect the Midwest.
- [91:25]
Brian Windhorst
And I know you would fly to Detroit.
- [91:27]
Tim McMahon
Absolutely.
- [91:28]
Brian Windhorst
Got to get, man. Would fly. McMahon would fly from the. The south side to the north side of Chicago.
- [91:37]
Tim McMahon
Listen, all right, enough about me being a diva. How, for real, do we think the Pistons are? Jamal?
- [91:45]
Jamal Collier
Look, I was there the other night in Milwaukee when they won their 14th game and 14. Two. Two years ago, they had 14 wins. That was the worst record in the NBA. So just like that in of itself is just a crazy. And the fact that they have so many of the same guys in the locker room, you don't normally see like, normally to have that sort of stark turnaround, you have to sort of turn the roster over. And I think from talking to Jalen Duran, Kate Cunningham, some of those guys after the game, that being a part of that losing and still having that sting of it, I think is really carrying them and motivating them to kind of come out and show just how good they are. And Jalen Duran especially is. Is the reason, you know, you ask how, why for real. He's for real. And the improvement, the leap that he has made makes him a really dangerous team because we're not talking about just bonafide All Star, but, you know, a guy who really can be a force in the middle of the paint playing with K at the rim. Him and Isaiah Stewart are just kind of untouchable in there. They got something for real here that you start this good 14 and 2, all of a sudden you put yourself in a position to be top two, top three seed in the east, at minimum. Get yourself a chance.
- [93:04]
Tim McMahon
Maybe top one, maybe top one.
- [93:05]
Jamal Collier
Right.
- [93:06]
Tim McMahon
That's where they're sitting right now. And you know, Duran's obviously made a huge leap this year. I mean, early most improved player candidate, certainly a guy who I would seek financial advice from because his, his willingness to bet on himself this summer, I believe will pay off quite handsomely. I am very curious and we're, this is early.
- [93:29]
Tim Bontemps
We're.
- [93:30]
Tim McMahon
We're, you know, couple months early on this, but I'm very curious to see the Pistons appetite for making a.
- [93:41]
Tim Bontemps
All.
- [93:41]
Tim McMahon
In type of move before the trade deadline. And not an all in even on this season, but an all in on, hey, we're ready to be a contender. You know, let's get a guy who can kind of push us over the top and, you know, be around for at least a few years.
- [93:59]
Brian Windhorst
Yeah, I'm not sure. I think the Pistons are going to have to decide just how hard they want to hit the gas this year, you know, because they've been in a situation where they're building and they're building and, you know, the one thing that you don't want to do in a vacuum, you know, when you've got your whiteboard or you've got your PowerPoint, you're having a meeting about your future, the one thing you don't want to do is make a trade that limits your upside. And yeah, it may make you, you know, a Little bit better for the season, but limits your upside. And I'm sure that's one of the things that Trajan Langdon, Dennis Lindsay, the brain trust of the, the Pistons, and Tom Gores who's, you know, wanted a winning team for so long as the owner are going to have to, you know, they're, they're, they're moving towards making a decision and I'm sure, you know, it's one of the things that they have to, they have to weigh a lot and Jamal will be covering it. Yeah.
- [94:49]
Tim McMahon
And it's one thing if you're trading for a 32 year old, it's another thing if you're trading for a 26 year old. And we'll see how things play out. I think there could be scenarios where both of those possibilities are potentially in play.
- [95:02]
Brian Windhorst
All right, Jamal, well, thank you so much. Congratulations on your nuptials again and I hope you have a great Thanksgiving. We'll talk to you later in the season.
- [95:11]
Jamal Collier
Good to talk to you guys.
- [95:14]
Brian Windhorst
All right now, joining us from Naples, Florida, we, we talked about high school football before. This is our man, Bobby Marks. Hey, Bobby.
- [95:25]
Tim Bontemps
Gentlemen, how we doing?
- [95:28]
Brian Windhorst
So sorry. Your son had a great run in his high school football season and you're still getting over a tough 50 to 46, 50 to 47 loss last week. My God, what a game.
- [95:39]
Tim Bontemps
I'll tell you what, I've been around this business of sports for a long time and if I could rank the top five most disappointing, heartbreaking losses, one was Friday night in a high school football game and one woman, I was coaching seventh and eighth grade basketball and we were like the UNLV team of the 90s and rolled into playoffs and got upset and they still sit sticks with me to this day, man.
- [96:03]
Brian Windhorst
Was there, was there foul play in.
- [96:06]
Tim Bontemps
The high school one?
- [96:07]
Tim McMahon
Oh, I don't know.
- [96:09]
Brian Windhorst
No, no, I'm not asking for that. No, no.
- [96:10]
Tim Bontemps
They brought in outside kids from the, out of the district for that one. Oh, yeah. Let's just say those kid, we never saw those kids again at that school that we lost to.
- [96:20]
Brian Windhorst
Okay, stop asking leading questions.
- [96:23]
Tim McMahon
We're not going to get Bobby in trouble here.
- [96:26]
Brian Windhorst
He's talking about seventh and eighth grade basketball. I can appreciate it. You know that this is, this is high time the year. High school football is going on, championship level football and a lot of, a lot of high drama happening in the various places I keep a, keep an eye on. But it was a great season for your son Bobby, and so hopefully you'll take that, you'll accept that after the sting phase, I'm sure he was very upset.
- [96:58]
Tim Bontemps
Back to the portal. Now we gotta hit the portal harder. You know, that's right.
- [97:03]
Tim McMahon
Back to, back to. Are there in home visits. How's all that work for you?
- [97:07]
Brian Windhorst
Hey, listen, I am the Ohio High School Athletic association, which exploited LeBron James to the tune of hundreds and hundreds of thousands of dollars and maybe even millions, who knows, 25 years ago, shamefully just had to accept a lawsuit they were going to lose to finally allow nil in, in Ohio high school sports. They were completely backward. One of six states that wasn't allowing nil having.
- [97:38]
Tim McMahon
I think Texas is another one of those.
- [97:40]
Brian Windhorst
I don't think they should be ashamed too. They should, they should be ashamed too. I can't speak for Texas. I'm not, not involved with Texas high schools, but I would, I would speak to how shameful it was that elite high school athletes had to leave Ohio because they were behind the times. And so they finally, someone sued them. Just like LeBron had to sue them for their ridiculous hypocrisy back in the 2000s. And just like when LeBron sued them, they were on the wrong side of it. So sorry, Bobby. I got, got myself fired up there about it. The way they treated LeBron back in those days where they were selling out arenas and putting them on pay per view and then said, you can't play because you took a 500 jersey, which wasn't worth 500, but whatever. But. And it was the, it was the jealousy of the other schools because they were so, you know, thick headed. To understand that there was a phenomena happening. Every single one of LeBron's high school games was like a gift, you know, to everybody involved. And there were jealous, you know, short sighted, you know, idiot old guys, old men who were trying to figure out ways to throw it in the trash can.
- [99:01]
Tim McMahon
Well, Doug Christie might call them haters and critics.
- [99:03]
Tim Bontemps
Oh, well, sounds like the seven officials from Friday night when I was walking.
- [99:07]
Brian Windhorst
There you go.
- [99:08]
Tim Bontemps
My wife said to me, don't say anything to me. Them. And I said, I used a patented Jason Kidd line from when he was coaching the Nets. And I said, hey, three blind mice, nice game.
- [99:23]
Brian Windhorst
Bobby, you're a public figure.
- [99:24]
Tim McMahon
There's seven of them. It doesn't work as well.
- [99:26]
Tim Bontemps
It was dark.
- [99:28]
Brian Windhorst
Oh, my gosh, yes. Bobby, I don't even know what we're talking about here. We're just messing around. We're just messing around on, on, on Friendsgiving. I just don't. I just don't want to Talk about the second apron. I just don't want to talk.
- [99:42]
Tim McMahon
I feel like Bobby Thanksgiving dinner, you.
- [99:47]
Brian Windhorst
Know, in the, in the upcoming trade season, I feel like we're gonna have to get one of those wah, wah, wah, when we ever, we have Bobby on. Because I see so many people being like. Because, you know, people are starting to propose trades to me and yeah, oh, no, no, no. What if. Blah, blah, blah. I'm like, nope, nope, nope, nope. Like, you know, like, you know, we're only at the beginning of Bobby throwing cold water on possible things because he has to be the bearer of the news on the rules.
- [100:18]
Tim McMahon
Well, you, you've had to reassess or maybe even retire. You're saying, what's your old saying? A three team trade is a no team trade.
- [100:26]
Brian Windhorst
Yeah. Because they're all, they.
- [100:30]
Tim McMahon
Trade is impossible. Almost.
- [100:32]
Brian Windhorst
You're right.
- [100:33]
Tim McMahon
Yeah.
- [100:33]
Tim Bontemps
I mean look at, look at last year. Like, you know, Jimmy Butler gets traded. You gotta get in Toronto involved. Right? Like you gotta get a third team involved. Unless you're, unless you're two teams who are like in really good shape financially. Like let's say like Detroit and somebody else. Like Detroit's in really good shape. But any of these, you know, we'll be talking to probably about, you know, some of these bigger name guys, whether it be Ja or Trey, you know, we're making, you know, over 35, $40 million here though. When you're dealing one on one, it, it's Anthony, Anthony Davis just becomes really, really challenging. Even if you're not a, a first or second. A first apron team, like teams are pressed against it. Whether you're the Clippers or the Lakers or Houston, where you're like a million bucks below, you know, it presents, it presents a challenge.
- [101:22]
Brian Windhorst
Yeah, that's, that's true. So Bobby, who are the teams this year? I mean, so the, the Pistons are, I mean, the Nets. Right. The Nets have flexibility. Who's get, who's going to be the, the dance partner this year?
- [101:34]
Tim Bontemps
I would, It's, I think it's, you know, Brooklyn, of course, just because they're still sitting on about $15 million in cap space. They're the really the only team, but there's a lot of teams out there. Detroit's in really good position. We wrote about them last week in that little mini trade guide we did with some of these contending teams. They kind of, you know, the rarity of a team that's sitting in first place and is on his long winning streak that has, you know, four first to trade, pick swaps every year, 15 seconds, man. They are well below the apron, first apron that, you know, they're sitting on that big Tobias Harris expiring contract and stuff. So they're in a, they're in a really good position. And then there's some other teams, you know, as far as third teams, you just kind of look at standings, whether it be the Wizards or the Hornets, because even if you don't have room, you could still use your non tax mid level exception, which is 14 million, to take on a player, which we've seen in the past.
- [102:28]
Brian Windhorst
Yeah, I want to just explain that real quick because you just went by the technical terms of it. We talked about Brooklyn having cap space, but if you didn't use your mid level exception, which is Bobby said is 14 million and change and you have enough room under the apron because you can't accept, exceed the first apron with it. And there's a few teams like this, you can use that mid level exception to take on a contract. So you know, with, with all these. The challenge with all these trades also, Bobby, is it's not so much just doing the matching because you mentioned how many teams are so close to the line. It's not just getting a trade that works under league rules, which you have to get within a certain percentage of a trade, 20, 25% or 20%. It's that some of these teams can't take on money in the deal. They can't, they can't, they can't do a trade. And the trade, even if they, even if it's legal, even if they take a player making 20 million and they trade them for a player making 22 million, that trade works under the rules.
- [103:29]
Tim McMahon
20 million versus 20 million and $1.
- [103:32]
Brian Windhorst
Exactly. And that's like.
- [103:35]
Tim Bontemps
Yeah, I mean, you hit it right on the head. And it's like, you know, like we could talk about like Cleveland, for example, who are the only team that's sitting over the second apron just based on where their payroll. But if, if Cleveland wanted to trade a guy making 20 and a guy making 22 and take back less salary, let's say 35, they're not allowed to do it because you're not allowed to aggregate contracts.
- [103:56]
Brian Windhorst
That's.
- [103:56]
Tim Bontemps
So we saw that with Phoenix. That was the big thing with Phoenix, with. When we were talking about Beal a lot last year, besides him having such a big number, they weren't able to add anything with him.
- [104:06]
Jamal Collier
Mm.
- [104:07]
Tim Bontemps
Even if they were gonna take back.
- [104:08]
Tim McMahon
Less money and they didn't have any picks.
- [104:12]
Tim Bontemps
Well, they didn't And I'll tell you what that this is. And I know their schedule is gonna get tougher here, but this is one of the more interesting stories that it's going on in Phoenix right now as far as them basically just stringing along. They're basically been stacking up games and they've gotten great. You know, it's funny, it's like this is the guard play they needed, you know, like two years ago with Colin Gillespie and Jordan Goodwin and some of these incredible. Grayson Allen before we got hurt. It's, it's, it, it, it, it. When Orlando made that trade with, with Memphis, the Desmond Bane train, everybody was like, oh my God, that Phoenix pick's going to be looking juicy, man. You know that, that's going to me, that's going to Memphis and stuff.
- [104:51]
Tim McMahon
The Grizzlies thought that was the best asset they got in the deal.
- [104:55]
Tim Bontemps
And you know what? That Orlando pick might be better, you know, when you look at it, because you get to either one of them, it's, it's the thing. And, and listen, I know that we've talked a lot about that New Orleans pick that goes to Atlanta and stuff like that could be really juicy. But sometimes what you think you're going to get in a draft pick doesn't really turn out to be what it's all made out to be.
- [105:15]
Brian Windhorst
Yeah. The funny thing is the, the, all the trades that the Thunder have made, they really have not gotten lucky, like.
- [105:27]
Tim McMahon
Getting a lottery pick that ended up being Jalen Williams. Nobody thought they're getting a lottery pick from the Clippers that early, so that's true.
- [105:34]
Brian Windhorst
But they, it was a 12th pick. It wasn't like that.
- [105:37]
Tim McMahon
But when you make that trade, you're thinking the picks are going to be in the 20s, not the lottery.
- [105:42]
Brian Windhorst
Well, okay, but they could have gotten a Rockets pick that was as high as 5. And then the Rockets get jump into the lottery. They could have gotten.
- [105:54]
Tim McMahon
The top Sixers.
- [105:56]
Brian Windhorst
Yeah. Then the last year with the Sixers. So, you know, the Jazz want to.
- [106:00]
Tim McMahon
Be interesting this year. The Jazz. The Jazz are in dangerous territory. Giving up the 9th or 10th pick instead of keeping it top 8 protected. And then after this, it just goes in the dust, Right. Yeah.
- [106:12]
Tim Bontemps
I'll tell you what, you Oklahoma City, you know, they used to be like this lovable. Everybody was rooting for them. But if they come out of this with like, with this Clipper pick and they got a Philly pick that who the hell knows where the Sixers team goes and they got, you know, like that. Oh that Clipper pick. And then they had. And then you got swap rights next year with them also.
- [106:37]
Brian Windhorst
So just to be clear, the. The Thunder get the Jazz's pick if it's ninth or higher.
- [106:45]
Anthony Slater
Correct.
- [106:45]
Brian Windhorst
If it's inside the top eight, not only do they not get it this year, they don't ever get it. It goes away.
- [106:51]
Tim Bontemps
Right.
- [106:52]
Brian Windhorst
And they get the Clipper pick no matter where it is. No, it is.
- [106:56]
Tim McMahon
Right.
- [106:57]
Tim Bontemps
The Clips is two of the more favorable of Clippers. Their own. And Houston if it's 5 to 30 and then the other one goes to the Wizards. So like you could walk like. And then I got the Phillies pick too. That's protected I think top four, I want to say. But man, that Clipper pick. If. And. And they'll probably turn it around. But.
- [107:24]
Brian Windhorst
But it's unprotected. The Clipper pick, right?
- [107:26]
Tim Bontemps
Yeah.
- [107:27]
Jamal Collier
Yeah.
- [107:27]
Brian Windhorst
So it wouldn't. If the Jazz do a little bit more winning than we were expecting. It's. And the Clippers aren't able to recover, the Thunder could have two picks in the top. It's not unreasonable to think the Thunder could have two picks in the top 10 this year. Year.
- [107:43]
Anthony Slater
No.
- [107:44]
Tim McMahon
It's certainly possible.
- [107:46]
Anthony Slater
Fellas.
- [107:47]
Tim McMahon
I was talking to somebody with another front office the other day and you know how there's the stepping rule because the Cleveland owner just kept on mortgaging their future and trading first round pick after first round pick. So that's obviously why teams can't trade first round picks in back to back years. This guy was. He was serious. He was wondering if the league was going to put in or should put in some kind of presti rule. And you can only have so many. You can only own so many first round picks at one time. They're basically saying hey, we got a presti proof this league doing too damn much. They're too good with too many assets moving forward. I don't. I. I disagreed with the premise but it's interesting that it's. It's even a thought.
- [108:29]
Tim Bontemps
Well, that's how you beat the apron. If you want to know how you beat the aprons, it's the draft picks. It's AJ Mitchell on that contract. It's all those little small deals that you can have guys that come off your bench. Kayson Wallace on a rookie contract.
- [108:45]
Brian Windhorst
You have three bakeries. It also helps that Jalen Williams is not going to. You know, we would have thought there was a reasonable chance Jalen Williams would get all NBA supermax.
- [108:54]
Tim McMahon
But you know what the other thing is? If there's ever a time to just blow past the second apron. It's when you are early in a potential dynasty and you're getting an arena essentially gifted to you that's opening up here in a few years. They're. They're paying. They'll be paying Shay Gil, just Alexander more per year than they are for the arena total. The city's taking care of that. And, you know, like the deep playoff runs, potential expansion, and we'll see what happens with. With NBA Europe. I'm just saying.
- [109:28]
Brian Windhorst
Yeah. When you say your Thanksgiving prayers, don't include the Thunder.
- [109:31]
Tim McMahon
Yeah.
- [109:31]
Brian Windhorst
There's no rules unless you're a Thunder fan. You're thinking, you're thanking Sam Presti. Yeah.
- [109:36]
Tim McMahon
No rule that you have to, if you're sitting in Sam Presti's seat, make decisions to get rid of guys. Now, you might have to get. Make decisions to get rid of picks because you. You only got 15 roster spots, but Sam Presti has some very enviable problems.
- [109:52]
Brian Windhorst
All right, Bobby, thank you so much for your time and always your information. You're a very valued member of our team at ESPN. McMahon is just a member, but you're a value.
- [110:03]
Tim Bontemps
Oh, no, he's valuable.
- [110:04]
Brian Windhorst
He's valuable, but not very valuable.
- [110:07]
Tim McMahon
You're a member, too.
- [110:09]
Tim Bontemps
I'm just disappointed Bon Temps wasn't on this one.
- [110:11]
Brian Windhorst
You know, I know. He. He couldn't be bothered. He had to be in South Florida. All right.
- [110:19]
Tim Bontemps
I was giving Bon Temps update during that football game Friday night. You know, he's my. He's my normal Friday night. He wants score updates during these games.
- [110:26]
Tim McMahon
You know, as if you weren't miserable enough watching the team lose a heartbreak. You got to communicate with bond tips that's involved.
- [110:33]
Brian Windhorst
Like, the funny thing is five.
- [110:35]
Tim Bontemps
The funny thing. I was cheering so much, my phone fell in my pocket underneath the stands. So I had to. I was under there during the fourth quarter, like, looking for this thing.
- [110:46]
Brian Windhorst
But the thing about Bontams, he's involved in like 65 different, like, various fantasy leagues, like, all kinds of different stuff. And I'm surprised, you know, and he's always like, he always knows everything. And so, you know. Oh, yeah, I'm surprised you weren't like, oh, yeah, man, they just scored to take the lead, you know, 43 to 42. And you. Oh, you know, I know. I got so and so running back from, you know, something prep. I got him and, you know, he scored all these points for me. All right, Have a great Thanksgiving.
- [111:15]
Tim Bontemps
Appreciate it.
- [111:15]
Jamal Collier
Thanks.
- [111:18]
Brian Windhorst
All right, now, joining us From Los Angeles, California, where he isn't as much as he used to be, is our man, Olm Young. Masuk. What's up, Olm?
- [111:27]
Om Yung Masuk
What's up? I apologize if I'm like a zombie. I just did six games. Six games in eight nights in three different cities. This is my fourth city, and I don't even know. Nine nights.
- [111:37]
Brian Windhorst
Yeah. You've been flying major. A couple of things I need to talk to you that are very important. Number one, you've lived in LA for many years, and you are a united loyalist.
- [111:49]
Om Yung Masuk
Just made 1k for next year.
- [111:52]
Brian Windhorst
That's the top level. United. Well.
- [111:54]
Om Yung Masuk
And it was. It was a grind.
- [111:58]
Brian Windhorst
Okay, now let me ask you this. And some people who are listening will care about this and some people won't, but it's my podcast. You are now spending a lot of time in Atlanta.
- [112:06]
Tim McMahon
Thought it was our podcast.
- [112:09]
Brian Windhorst
It is our podcast, McMahon. Don't worry about it. Don't. Don't ask questions. You are now spending a lot of time in Atlanta because you're covering the Southeast for us.
- [112:19]
Om Yung Masuk
Yeah.
- [112:21]
Brian Windhorst
As people may know who are out there traveling, some of whom are probably on Delta flights right now. Like 99. Well, maybe not 99, because Southwest has a big presence, but a huge percentage of Atlanta flights are our Delta, and a very small percentage is United. What's going on here? What are we going to do?
- [112:41]
Om Yung Masuk
There's been a lot of connecting through Denver and Houston.
- [112:44]
Brian Windhorst
Okay, so you're sticking with it? You're sticking.
- [112:46]
Om Yung Masuk
Well. Well, that was to get to 1k. So now I'm at 1k. And I thought in the past you could just have Delta or United or American match your status for the whole year. So you would say January 1st, say I'm 1K and United, Delta, will you please match? And then I can fly Delta at that level. But Delta will only match for 90 days. And within those 90 days, you have to fly at the level of what is their highest one. Premier medallion or whatever it is. Platinum medallion, whatever diamond medallion. So it is so highest.
- [113:18]
Brian Windhorst
Yeah.
- [113:18]
Om Yung Masuk
You would have to fly at the level that those diamond medallions normally do in those 90 days. And then I think they might extend it for, like, another 90 days or give it for you. To you for the whole year. But that's a lot of flying within one month. So we're gonna have to figure out what we're gonna do. I might have to consult with you, Wendy.
- [113:35]
Tim McMahon
Oh, sounds like some middle season.
- [113:37]
Om Yung Masuk
Because the only way I can get direct flights is Delta, on top of which I now that I've spent a lot of time in Atlanta. I've come to learn that flying out of Atlanta is expensive.
- [113:50]
Brian Windhorst
Oh, listen, finding.
- [113:51]
Om Yung Masuk
I am finding flights to just Atlanta to Orlando be way more expensive than a direct flight from Orlando to Los Angeles.
- [113:59]
Brian Windhorst
Did you know that Atlanta to Orlando is one of the five highest volume flight markets in the country?
- [114:05]
Om Yung Masuk
Oh, I did not know that.
- [114:07]
Brian Windhorst
Yeah. So, like, you know, like, number one is like la, New York. That's more people fly LA to New York, you know, than any. Than any other per day. And I in Orlando, Atlanta is in the top five.
- [114:20]
Om Yung Masuk
I love it.
- [114:22]
Tim McMahon
But especially with the TSA situation lately. But at all times, that Atlanta airport ain't like, Windhorse will tell you.
- [114:33]
Om Yung Masuk
Windhorse will tell you. McMahon. I texted windhorse. This is about maybe. This is during the government shutdown. So you can imagine how bad it was. This is about maybe two and a half weeks ago. And I said to Windhorse, I said, the more I travel out of this airport, the more I realize this is the worst airport in the country. Major metropolitan airport in the country.
- [114:52]
Tim McMahon
You do the show 30 minutes for a flight thing, which is absolute insanity under any circumstances. Have you gotten out of it?
- [115:01]
Om Yung Masuk
I. I have. Because of the government shutdown. Windhorse will be happy to know that I've been showing up to airports earlier than I normally do, but that still only gives me, like, maybe I Show up maybe 10 minutes before boarding.
- [115:14]
Brian Windhorst
Would you like to. Would you like to hear the. The top 10 highest volume airline routes.
- [115:21]
Tim McMahon
In the U.S. i mean, anything to thrill the audience.
- [115:26]
Brian Windhorst
Well, it's a friendsgiving. This is a travel pod. Many of them are going to be on this. Okay, jfk, lax. But when you include Newark, jfk, LAX is technically farther down the list. But when you include all New York to la, that's number one. All right, Number two, la, San Francisco.
- [115:45]
Om Yung Masuk
Mmm. I did that a lot last year. 161 nights on the road last year.
- [115:51]
Brian Windhorst
161 Nights on the road. Number three also involves LA. Do you want to take a guess.
- [116:01]
Om Yung Masuk
LA. So we did New York. We did San Francisco, LA.
- [116:04]
Tim McMahon
Chicago, Vegas. No Vegas in New Florida.
- [116:07]
Brian Windhorst
You got it, McMahon. LA.
- [116:08]
Tim McMahon
Okay.
- [116:09]
Om Yung Masuk
Wow.
- [116:10]
Brian Windhorst
Number four, Atlanta, Orlando. As I said, number five, LaGuardia, O', Hare. LaGuardia, O', Hare, laGuardia, O', Hare, and back and forth. You know, not just LaGuardia to O', Hare, but these are all included both ways. Number six, I do not think that you guys would get Omaha lax. No, that's my volume. That's my high volume.
- [116:38]
Tim McMahon
DFW to okc.
- [116:40]
Brian Windhorst
No, DFW is actually not on any of these topics.
- [116:43]
Tim McMahon
That surprises me, actually.
- [116:44]
Brian Windhorst
Yeah. Denver. The ones after say.
- [116:49]
Om Yung Masuk
I was about to say Denver.
- [116:51]
Brian Windhorst
Denver to Phoenix, Atlanta to LaGuardia. Denver to Vegas, which is. That kind of surprises me. And Denver to Chicago are all in the top 10. But this one. So this is a surpriser. This one is not on the mainland.
- [117:03]
Tim Bontemps
Hawaii.
- [117:04]
Brian Windhorst
Honolulu to Maui.
- [117:07]
Om Yung Masuk
Honolulu to Maui.
- [117:09]
Brian Windhorst
Honolulu to Kala Lui.
- [117:11]
Om Yung Masuk
I have done that flight and it's never.
- [117:13]
Brian Windhorst
Of course you have. And it's always on time.
- [117:16]
Tim McMahon
Yes.
- [117:18]
Brian Windhorst
All right, now that we've done that. So om. Have you found any. What is your. You know, have you found any, like, go to food. Are you Lemon Pepper winging it in Atlanta?
- [117:34]
Tim McMahon
Don't do that.
- [117:34]
Om Yung Masuk
I have been wanting to do that. I have not gotten around to Lemon Pepper winging it from the. The place that I need to go to. Magic City. No, you know what? I've been living out of hotels so far. Eventually I'll get to corporate housing probably next March, I think. But until then, I'm not in Atlanta as much because we are expecting. So I will probably be in Los Angeles from second week of Los Angeles on and then on paternity leave. And then that's when I'll probably be getting into the.
- [118:09]
Brian Windhorst
Did you hear what he just dropped. Paternity coming up. It's very, very exciting. All best to you and your wife.
- [118:17]
Om Yung Masuk
Thank you.
- [118:18]
Brian Windhorst
McMahon. Did you know. Did you know, McMahon, that I am. I have elite status on all three major US airlines.
- [118:27]
Vince Goodwill
Wow.
- [118:28]
Tim McMahon
Actually, I'm impressed.
- [118:30]
Brian Windhorst
All four.
- [118:31]
Tim McMahon
I've. I've never been more impressed with you than just. Right.
- [118:34]
Brian Windhorst
All four. I have it on all four.
- [118:37]
Om Yung Masuk
At the height of my travel, I've only had elite, the top elite status on United and Delta. And I thought it was king as.
- [118:45]
Brian Windhorst
As of right now, I have.
- [118:46]
Tim McMahon
He's got.
- [118:47]
Brian Windhorst
I have Big time.
- [118:48]
Tim McMahon
He's big time.
- [118:49]
Brian Windhorst
Visa.
- [118:50]
Tim McMahon
No. Coach tickets for old Wendy.
- [118:52]
Om Yung Masuk
Oh, yeah.
- [118:53]
Tim McMahon
First class Wendy.
- [118:55]
Brian Windhorst
No, not silver status. I'm above silver on all of them.
- [118:59]
Tim McMahon
Oh, well, yeah.
- [119:01]
Tim Bontemps
Yeah.
- [119:02]
Brian Windhorst
And Southwest. A list. I don't know. There's only one, as far as I know.
- [119:06]
Om Yung Masuk
So how many flights in a one year can you give to the normal human being to have them understand? How many flights would you have to take to maintain that status on all four?
- [119:18]
Brian Windhorst
It's because status is not. It's because status is not based on number of flights anymore. It's based on other things. But. Yes, but I am sensitive to the struggle that you have as Somebody who is a united man living in a Delta city. I am sensitive to it, so I respect what you're going through.
- [119:42]
Tim McMahon
Wendy can still relate to the common man.
- [119:46]
Om Yung Masuk
What I could use is some advice of how I can muscle my wife into allowing me to name the baby Izzo. I've even approached Draymond on this, and Draymond said. Draymond's about to have a baby. And he said, I'm in the exact same corner as you are, fighting.
- [120:03]
Brian Windhorst
This is his kid? Yes. With his. Draymond's 0 for 4. I don't think any of his names.
- [120:08]
Om Yung Masuk
I don't know if he would like. I don't know if he would allow me to say what he wants to name the baby. Maybe I shouldn't say it, but I love the name that he has that he wants to name his baby. But his wife's party.
- [120:18]
Jamal Collier
Yeah.
- [120:18]
Tim McMahon
Why don't you name this baby Ishbia?
- [120:22]
Om Yung Masuk
You know what? So my wife's response was, if. If you can get Tom to be the godfather, then, yes, I'll sign off on that. I have not sent that text yet to coach.
- [120:33]
Brian Windhorst
Also, I will say that, you know, you know, my thing about Michigan State, folks, is that no one loves people from Michigan State more than people from Michigan State.
- [120:48]
Om Yung Masuk
We're family.
- [120:49]
Tim McMahon
You know, my thing about Michigan State, folks, it's a shame they couldn't have gotten into Michigan.
- [120:55]
Brian Windhorst
So here's the thing about Ohm McMahon. You know this. Well, freaking McMahon. Ohm is famous for two things. United Airlines and beverages. Ohm is a connoisseur of beverages.
- [121:08]
Tim McMahon
Well, three things. I will say this. Ohm is the best at collecting and utilizing Marriott points I've ever seen. Ever.
- [121:18]
Om Yung Masuk
Yeah, we need to.
- [121:19]
Brian Windhorst
You need to.
- [121:20]
Om Yung Masuk
Maybe one day I'll get on one of those little Marriott videos when you walk in and you turn on the TV and they got somebody who's like, I've traveled. I'm in Vietnam and I'm doing this. Been there Marriott. I've been at your best properties in Vietnam.
- [121:32]
Tim McMahon
No. Why should beverages. To be clear, Om is not a man who, you know, sips on the spirits.
- [121:41]
Brian Windhorst
Yes. He's. He's. You know, that's right. He's not like you, McMahon.
- [121:44]
Tim McMahon
I don't sip on spirits.
- [121:45]
Brian Windhorst
I'm Solomon Cerveza, so good job. So Om is like, if Alma is known for pretty much having three different types of beverages at any one time, when Ohm is got this custom refrigerator that could maximize beverage storage.
- [122:06]
Tim McMahon
Is this true?
- [122:07]
Brian Windhorst
Then when he had to move From New York, from New Jersey to Los Angeles. A few years ago he moved McMahon. He moved the fridge.
- [122:15]
Tim McMahon
Okay.
- [122:16]
Om Yung Masuk
I wanted, I wanted to cross country. It was a Samsung refrigerator that had all the bells and whistles mine. Now, as Windhorse will talk about, it has. It has a beverage center with two types of ice makers which by the way, this is the big riot here. Maybe you might know what to do, Wendy, because your wife is as into, I believe, beverages and ice as I am. I have two ice makers. One is the big cubes. One is the little small cubes which my wife likes. That one like something that snapped. Yeah, the crushed ice.
- [122:47]
Brian Windhorst
Oh yeah.
- [122:47]
Om Yung Masuk
A little small nugget one.
- [122:49]
Brian Windhorst
It's like, it's not crushed ice. Crushed ice. Any average refrigerator can do. It's the ice nuggets.
- [122:55]
Om Yung Masuk
Yes. The ice nuggets.
- [122:56]
Brian Windhorst
Yes.
- [122:56]
Om Yung Masuk
The little tray that it falls into. Then it falls into the big tray. The little tray that it makes. The little ice snapped off for whatever reason. So one little part cracked. And I've been thinking, okay, maybe I can put it back in and. But just I was like, you know what? You know, Samsung should be able to come out and do this. No, no, no, no. Just to call Samsung to have someone come out to look at it immediately, they charge like $150 and it's through some other like third party. And then on top of that, we looked it up just apparently this has happened in the last Samsungs. Just to fix that little part. There's like one little part that cracked off. It's going to be hundreds of dollars just for the little nugget thing. So I am. So I've been going to Chick Fil A to buy the nugget ice for $3 a bag or $4 a bag.
- [123:43]
Brian Windhorst
Oh my God.
- [123:44]
Om Yung Masuk
Because my wife, who's pregnant, loves that nugget ice.
- [123:48]
Brian Windhorst
So this is how they got together. McMahon is. And I'm not, I'm, you know, like this is their connection. Is. Is this the love of these beverages? Like when I see. Ohm. So here's the thing. When OM arrives at a game, you arrive at a game. Just an average game on a. You know, you just had six games in eight days or whatever. What beverages do you have with you and what do you take to your seat?
- [124:12]
Jamal Collier
Hold on.
- [124:12]
Tim McMahon
There's a. There's one large iced coffee. I know that.
- [124:15]
Tim Bontemps
Yes.
- [124:16]
Om Yung Masuk
One large iced coffee.
- [124:17]
Brian Windhorst
And he will nurse that sucker for the entire game.
- [124:20]
Om Yung Masuk
Yes, I will have one large iced coffee. Usually like a 32 ounce or is the biggest I can Get. If it's coffee bean is 32 ounce. If it's Dunkin Donuts is large. In fact, the Clippers who I just saw for the first time in a while, started laughing at me because they saw that I had Dunkin Donuts in my hand, and they know that I am a diehard Coffee Bean guy. So when I would go to Clippers home games, I always have Coffee Bean in my hands. So they started laughing because they knew now he's in Orlando, he has to go get Dunkin Donuts because I don't really do Starbucks. And then I will have Jackson.
- [124:53]
Brian Windhorst
He's just totally offending so many potential sponsors.
- [124:56]
Tim McMahon
Starbucks, you got money, and I picked your stuff.
- [125:00]
Brian Windhorst
And I would do.
- [125:03]
Tim McMahon
Bottles of root.
- [125:04]
Om Yung Masuk
Beer or a large root beer, but I usually carry bottles of root beer because I want beer.
- [125:09]
Brian Windhorst
Right. Because you can't get a bottle of root beer in your average NBA or arena. Right.
- [125:13]
Tim McMahon
Some.
- [125:13]
Om Yung Masuk
Some arenas do have bark soup beer. Not a lot. You know what? I've been having a real difficult time finding in arenas, mostly from the media. This is something where fans are gonna be like, boohoo. But it's hard to get ice. You have to like, buy like a large cup or something, buy a soda in the arena just to get a cup of ice. It's very difficult in a lot of arenas to just get ice.
- [125:39]
Brian Windhorst
Well, and, you know, typically we would have beverage centers in media rooms, but those are going away. Kind of.
- [125:45]
Om Yung Masuk
Those are going away.
- [125:46]
Ramona Shelburne
Yes.
- [125:46]
Tim McMahon
Okay, you got your iced coffee, you got your root beer.
- [125:49]
Anthony Slater
What else?
- [125:51]
Brian Windhorst
No, that's pretty much about.
- [125:53]
Tim McMahon
Can I recommend some H2O? I'm worried about your hydration.
- [125:56]
Brian Windhorst
Yeah, yeah, I do you also have sports drinks? You also have. You also have a sports drink.
- [126:04]
Om Yung Masuk
I think you happened to see me one day, Wendy, in the playoffs where we were in Phoenix, and I probably.
- [126:09]
Brian Windhorst
Was like, we were in Phoenix.
- [126:11]
Om Yung Masuk
Yeah, I had three. I had a. I had a Gatorade going too.
- [126:13]
Tim McMahon
I think, as well, how many restroom breaks per game?
- [126:17]
Brian Windhorst
Because I always get a lot of flying. Oh, are you a window man or an aisle man? You got to be an aisle man.
- [126:22]
Om Yung Masuk
Window man. Window man man.
- [126:25]
Brian Windhorst
This is not a good combination of average man who sits on the window.
- [126:28]
Tim McMahon
Oh, I tell you what, that is.
- [126:29]
Om Yung Masuk
Tough because I need to sleep, but I'm usually window exit aisle.
- [126:33]
Brian Windhorst
All right, Ohm. Thank you very much. Have a great week.
- [126:36]
Om Yung Masuk
See you guys. Happy Thanksgiving to everybody. Happy holidays.
- [126:39]
Tim McMahon
See, little homie.
- [126:42]
Brian Windhorst
Okay, now joining us from Phoenix, Arizona, which is where he's at while we're While we're recording this, it's our man, Michael C. Wright. What's up, Mike?
- [126:54]
Jamal Collier
Not much. How are you fellas doing? It's good to see you all again. Except for the. The Tim McMahon guy. Tired of seeing him.
- [127:03]
Brian Windhorst
Yeah, you Texans.
- [127:05]
Tim McMahon
The C. The scenes for chump.
- [127:08]
Brian Windhorst
The C is for Corleone, which is one of the greatest.
- [127:12]
Tim McMahon
Hey, you didn't introduce him properly. It is the co star of the hit YouTube show Howdy Partners Do a Lone star Lens, Michael C. Wright. Oh, yeah, baby.
- [127:24]
Tim Bontemps
It's a hit because it's got McMahon's face on it. Corleone. That's all that really matters to him. He loves the YouTubes, the good folks. And trying to find his way to connect with the children.
- [127:34]
Tim McMahon
That's creepy.
- [127:38]
Tim Bontemps
Do you Listen, man, You want. Do you want the.
- [127:40]
Brian Windhorst
Mike, you're. You're the resident pitmaster on our. On our staff. What do you. I have to ask. I think I've asked you this on previous friends givings. What is on the menu? What are you cooking on Thursday?
- [127:51]
Jamal Collier
I have a reservation at STK in Denver. My man.
- [127:56]
Brian Windhorst
Oh, man. You're on the road. You're on the road. People that would send you on the road. I'm also going to be on the road. All right, well, what is. If you were home, what would you be making?
- [128:12]
Jamal Collier
Just the traditional stuff. I mean, I've got the wife doing it and she knows her way around a barbecue pit too. So right now we have a turkey. About to be putting a brine today, I think. Let that thing brine about 48 hours.
- [128:30]
Brian Windhorst
Okay, you. Brian.
- [128:31]
Jamal Collier
Brian.
- [128:32]
Brian Windhorst
About 48 hours.
- [128:33]
Jamal Collier
Pull it out Wednesday night and let it just sit in the fridge, you know, dry out a little bit and then she'll season it up, throw that thing on the smoker. But yeah, we're just doing the regular stuff. I think I have some.
- [128:45]
Tim Bontemps
Yeah, it's the regular stuff. To cook a turkey for three days. Boss, that's not.
- [128:49]
Jamal Collier
That's not how most people are doing soaking in water.
- [128:52]
Anthony Slater
It's just soaking.
- [128:53]
Tim Bontemps
I understand. I'm saying the average person isn't starting their turkey process on Monday. That's. That's top 1% work. I would say.
- [129:01]
Tim McMahon
Have a piece, man.
- [129:02]
Jamal Collier
It's really good stuff. Again, I'm not privy to it all, but I believe she's. You know the green bean casserole, the dressing. My parents were supposed to come and bring collard green.
- [129:19]
Brian Windhorst
That you said dressing as a Texan.
- [129:22]
Tim McMahon
No, it's stuffing.
- [129:25]
Jamal Collier
No dressing. No, no, there. Those are two different Things. Those are different things. Dressing.
- [129:33]
Brian Windhorst
I will just say that I have an unpopular opinion, for which if I say I probably will backlash. I don't think Thanksgiving food is that special. And I advocate. Thank you. And I advocate. Now. I understand the tradition of it. And if you've had the same casserole at your Thanksgiving that your aunt has made for your whole life, then absolutely, then it is special. And if you, if your dad, you know, puts the turkey out in the smoker for three days every year, then that's fine. And you taste it and that's like, that's my dad. That's my grandfather, father, or that's my grandmother's turkey. That's fine. The tradition of it. I don't have anything to say about the tradition of it, but the actual food itself, I don't understand why people celebrate it so much.
- [130:26]
Tim Bontemps
My favorite food from it is the sandwiches after. So that's. I would probably agree with your position.
- [130:31]
Brian Windhorst
But that's what I'm saying. Like a turkey sandwich. Like a turkey sandwich is what we give to people when we've got nothing else to give them. When they, when they do, you know, these giant, you know, lunches for, like, hundreds of people at, like, conventions and things, like prisons, they give them turkey sandwiches. Why is this. So I advocate for something that's, you know, different. Am I, am I go to jail for that?
- [131:01]
Jamal Collier
Then you can get a turkey.
- [131:02]
Tim Bontemps
You just said, you, you just said people in prison are having turkey sandwiches. So I don't know, maybe you should go to jail and give them some different food. I don't know what we're talking about.
- [131:09]
Brian Windhorst
Like, turkey sandwich is the definition of a nondescript lunch. It's a turkey sandwich. And I understand it's different. A cold cut sandwich is different from what's. I understand that. Don't put in the comments. And I am taking my family to a restaurant this year, and I specifically wanted a restaurant where I could order off the menu. And yes, they can also order turkey. Traditional Thanksgiving.
- [131:35]
Tim Bontemps
So we're going to an Italian restaurant to have chicken parm is what we're having. Yeah.
- [131:39]
Brian Windhorst
I don't know if I'll.
- [131:40]
Tim Bontemps
People that don't know Window has chicken parm at about 98% of meals.
- [131:43]
Jamal Collier
That's actually Thanksgiving.
- [131:46]
Brian Windhorst
That's not true. There's. It's hard to find good chicken parm. It's hard. You can find.
- [131:51]
Tim Bontemps
Yeah, that's why you try to find it wherever you go.
- [131:53]
Brian Windhorst
And when I find it, I appreciate it.
- [131:56]
Tim McMahon
You have chicken parm. Power rankings throughout the NBA.
- [132:01]
Brian Windhorst
There's definitely. I could probably tell you maybe not every city, but many cities I could tell you where I have a chicken parm spot. Yeah. And one of my favorite places, Mike Wright, is a place in Milwaukee where you can get a chicken parm pizza.
- [132:18]
Jamal Collier
Chicken parm pizza. I would try that.
- [132:20]
Brian Windhorst
And you may say, well, it's just, it's just pizza with chicken on it. But no, it's not. There's a, there's an art to it. So anyway, enough about that. So you're out there with the Rockets, Mike Wright. Are you on this whole road trip on Thanksgiving, you're going to be with what's ahead of a Nuggets Rockets game?
- [132:41]
Jamal Collier
Nope, I will be there ahead of Spurs Nuggets.
- [132:45]
Tim Bontemps
I was going to say that's a huge NBA cup game on Friday. That's the only reason I know that.
- [132:49]
Jamal Collier
Well, it might not mean anything, though.
- [132:52]
Tim Bontemps
Definitely means something to Denver because Denver could still advance. But yeah, San Antonio will be out unless they win both Wednesday's game against Portland and then Friday's game against.
- [133:00]
Brian Windhorst
Well, the spurs have a tough situation here, Mike, because they actually, for the first time all season, basically have to go on the road. I think out of their first 14 games, only played five road games. I think they had the most. And look, at the end of the day, everybody plays the same number of home and road games on the same number of days. It's all, it's, it's the, the nature of the schedule.
- [133:21]
Tim McMahon
Not necessarily true with the NBA company more. Go on.
- [133:24]
Brian Windhorst
Fair point, Mr. McMahon. I'd like to take, I'd like to retract that statement and once again congratulate you on your thoughtful intelligence. For the most part, that is true. And later on the rodeo trip will come back and even out for the Spurs. But they've had a favorable home road balance, which I think has helped them get off to this good start. Would you agree or disagree?
- [133:48]
Jamal Collier
I would agree with you. And they had the French guy, that seven five. What, however tall he is, he had that guy too for a lot of those games.
- [133:59]
Brian Windhorst
Now, let me ask you this. I think that the, the Nuggets are the, the, the spurs have done very well, better than we thought. And of course by some games will have been played by the time this comes out. But they've managed without Victor and Dylan Harper and now Castle very well. Do you think they can keep that up?
- [134:22]
Jamal Collier
I am beginning to question it. I really am because to me there's just some, some inconsistency there. And you know, like, I'm not like for instance, the other night, last night against the Suns, I think Phoenix, I think their physicality really got to the Spurs. And so, you know, you're thinking, okay, well, the spurs played a physical game like two weeks ago against the Houston Rockets and they came out on top of. And so you're thinking they can handle that just fine. But it's been twice now that Phoenix has done this to, to them. They did it the first time with Victor Wembanyama, you know, in the fray, and they, they double teamed him, got up under him, gave him all sorts of trouble. So I just think that people are starting to figure out how to play the spurs and they are really struggling, you know, when, when they sort of encounter these types of defenses.
- [135:12]
Brian Windhorst
So they gotta figure it out how to play the Spurs. Make them shoot threes.
- [135:16]
Jamal Collier
Yeah, pretty much. But also turn them over. I mean, they committed 19 turnovers last night. That's 14 points. I mean, that, that, that was the game. And you know, there's just too much inconsistency. And I think it's, you know, you've had, you have so many young guys on that roster that have, for the, for better or worse, they've lost most of their career. Like they don't know how to win yet. And that's what this is. This is all them trying to figure it out. And you know, luckily they, they've got a veteran like Harrison Barnes that can kind of. Okay, let's calm down here. We have this lead, this much time left in the game. This is how we got to handle it moving forward. But I just think that, you know, there's inconsistency also with the lineups because, you know, all these guys have been hurt. Dylan Harper, I mean, he's just now starting to ramp back up. Vic has been out, Stefan Castle. So they really haven't had enough time on the floor together to sort of gain that chemistry, that cohesion that is going to help them down the stretch of some of these tight games.
- [136:18]
Brian Windhorst
Now I want to say something else, unless bon temps or McMahon have something to say because I'm just chatting away here. Rockets have not played the back to back yet and don't for like another 10 days.
- [136:32]
Tim McMahon
Pretty wild. That means Stephen Adams.
- [136:37]
Brian Windhorst
I thought it was not until December, but maybe I'm wrong. Maybe.
- [136:41]
Tim Bontemps
We aren't, we aren't far from December, so we only got 10 days.
- [136:44]
Jamal Collier
It's at home and then in Dallas.
- [136:46]
Brian Windhorst
Week, something like back to back.
- [136:50]
Tim McMahon
Yeah, I guess when he's taking Shots. Taking shots at those pesky little Mavis.
- [136:58]
Tim Bontemps
I wanted to ask you, Mike, you mentioned Stefan Castle. He's had a great year. He's made some real strides. The one place he hasn't made strides, though, is in his shooting. Under 25% from 3. It's under 70% from the line. I was. I've been a big fan of him going back to college, but that's been the one question that's really been followed him since he was at UConn. Right. Is he going to become a good enough shooter?
- [137:21]
Vince Goodwill
Sure.
- [137:21]
Tim Bontemps
That's only been amplified by drafted Dylan Harper and then trading for Dear and Fox. So obviously there's been a lot to be excited about with the way he's played early on, distributing the ball, and, you know, he's shooting like 60 plus percent on twos. Like, he's made some really big strides. But where. Where do you feel like they are with him in terms of trying to get that outside shot to a place where it can unlock his game and can allow him to, you know, successfully be able to play alongside these other guys?
- [137:49]
Jamal Collier
I will tell you what they tell me, and that is that that the mechanics are there. They like the mechanics. They like the way the shot looks. They just have to get it more consistent. And so, you know, like you said, Stefan has made a ton of strides. Just, you know, like last year, I always said, like, if he can finish better at the rim. Well, he's finishing better at the rim now. He is figuring out ways to find space for Victoria to set him up.
- [138:19]
Tim McMahon
Love that.
- [138:20]
Jamal Collier
But it's that outside shot. Now, the only thing that I will say that is encouraging is that Stefan is not afraid to take it. You know, if he's missing shots, it's not like all of a sudden he's going to stop shooting. I mean, and there have been times, like late in games, I can remember in New Orleans about a month ago, into that game, it was really tight. Catches the ball out on the wing, fires that thing up. It's good. And that basically won the game for the Spurs. So he's taking those tough shots even though he's not making them. And to me, that's encouraging because he's going to get better. He just needs, you know, repetition. That's all he needs is more repetition. He's going to be a better shooter. I think a lot of those guys need the rep, you know, reps to be shooting the ball better. Because I'm looking at, like, Dylan Harper. He hasn't even really gotten a chance to play yet, you know, and they're just now starting the ramp up process with him. And I was watching him warm up the other day. The three pointer looked good. But does it look good when the lights are on? You know, when you've got opponents, real opponents, not, you know, spurs staffers running at you. So I'm interested to see how that goes with him. But, you know, overall, they dispersed sorely. Need shooting. Just, it's. It's an issue that's going to be there the rest of the season, I think.
- [139:44]
Brian Windhorst
I'm sorry you have to be on the road all week, Mike.
- [139:48]
Vince Goodwill
Hey, this is what we do, right?
- [139:50]
Brian Windhorst
That's true. It is. This is what we do.
- [139:52]
Jamal Collier
It's okay.
- [139:54]
Brian Windhorst
Safe travels to you. Thank you for your insight and to when we talk later in the season. Hey, man, I'll tell you something. The way things are going, we may have some playoff action down Texas way. We might be able to stop over and you can cook for us. Do you like how I just invited myself.
- [140:09]
Jamal Collier
I don't know.
- [140:12]
Tim McMahon
That one time.
- [140:13]
Tim Bontemps
Carla, just shut the door in your face. Get out, grab your chicken, man made.
- [140:18]
Jamal Collier
Me cook for him one time when he showed up.
- [140:21]
Tim McMahon
Ain't no made you cook. Trust me. He likes to put on a little show and he, you know, all the prep and everything, like it's a whole production. He likes to do it. We gonna eat.
- [140:32]
Brian Windhorst
All right. Thank you, Mr. Wright. Have a great week.
- [140:36]
Jamal Collier
Thanks, guys.
- [140:39]
Brian Windhorst
Okay. Now joining us from Las Vegas, where she's about to attend her first ever Syracuse game, is Malika Andrews.
- [140:49]
Ramona Shelburne
This is a big, big moment that.
- [140:52]
Brian Windhorst
Has been years coming in my household.
- [140:54]
Ramona Shelburne
This is basically a national holiday. So I have, like, I have five minutes before we got to go get the go orange.
- [141:02]
Brian Windhorst
S, Y, R A C. I don't.
- [141:05]
Tim McMahon
Know the chance you had to look down this fella.
- [141:09]
Brian Windhorst
I don't even. I don't even know who they're playing.
- [141:11]
Tim Bontemps
They're playing Houston.
- [141:13]
Brian Windhorst
Houston. That's a tough opponent.
- [141:16]
Tim Bontemps
Go Coons.
- [141:16]
Ramona Shelburne
A little scouting for the, for the draft here.
- [141:19]
Brian Windhorst
Oh, good. Definitely, Definitely. Yeah.
- [141:21]
Tim Bontemps
They've only got two lottery picks on their team and they're loaded.
- [141:25]
Tim McMahon
Who, Houston?
- [141:26]
Tim Bontemps
Yes, Houston.
- [141:28]
Tim McMahon
I know Q's don't have a whole lot of talent.
- [141:30]
Brian Windhorst
Malika, what are you expecting from a Syracuse game with potentially mildly insane Syracuse fans that you'll be sitting next to?
- [141:43]
Ramona Shelburne
Well, I. When we were driving here from the.
- [141:46]
Brian Windhorst
Airport, when we were driving to MGM where the game is taking place, I.
- [141:50]
Ramona Shelburne
Looked over at Dave, my husband, and I said, I don't know that I've seen you look this happy in a long time. And he looked at me and Brian, he smiled and he said, it's the Q Juice. I am expecting.
- [142:04]
Tim Bontemps
Oh my God, the juice is loose. Oh my God. Juice is going to get squeezed in about an hour by Jussie.
- [142:10]
Tim McMahon
Did you have to help him apply the paint to his back or anger.
- [142:14]
Brian Windhorst
Chest or just like, just the back? Well, that's the thing. Like now Dave has, Dave has done some crazy stuff, like taken red eyes across the country and like change planes two times and all this stuff to get to Syracuse games. How is he when Syracuse, like, does he just enjoy the game? Because I like to. I watch the Cleveland Browns for the spectacle. I don't worry about where they win or lose.
- [142:40]
Ramona Shelburne
No, no, he worries.
- [142:41]
Brian Windhorst
Okay.
- [142:42]
Ramona Shelburne
There's a worry, there's a care factor. And honestly, it's kind of cool because I think in what, what all of us do, you kind of lose the fandom piece of it. And this is his one slice of the fandom that's. Well, I won't say one slice. Syracuse basketball, Eagles football. And when, when we get to Red October and the Phillies are good, then, then there's a little bit of Philly pride there too.
- [143:03]
Brian Windhorst
But it's those. That's.
- [143:05]
Ramona Shelburne
That's kind of the trifecta.
- [143:06]
Tim Bontemps
Hopefully this goes better than the Monday Night Football game or Sunday Night Football game.
- [143:11]
Brian Windhorst
You guys are.
- [143:12]
Ramona Shelburne
I don't think Dave's going to be joining this friendsgiving.
- [143:17]
Brian Windhorst
So. Yeah. So, like, you know, what is it like to, to watch a Syracuse game? You know, Jackson, our man here, he lives and dies with Q. He just went to South Bend to see them play football a couple days ago. What is the experience like when he's just like watching on television? Like, is he living and dying with every basket?
- [143:35]
Ramona Shelburne
I wouldn't say living in.
- [143:36]
Brian Windhorst
Close.
- [143:36]
Ramona Shelburne
Yeah, close. And I, I, you know, you all.
- [143:40]
Brian Windhorst
Know he's very even keeled.
- [143:42]
Ramona Shelburne
The only time I genuinely see him get upset is when Syracuse loses, so.
- [143:46]
Brian Windhorst
Oh, boy.
- [143:48]
Tim Bontemps
Charitable.
- [143:49]
Ramona Shelburne
The only time we have dinner reservations at 6:45. This could be a joyous dinner or.
- [143:53]
Brian Windhorst
It could be a very silent one.
- [143:54]
Ramona Shelburne
We'll see how it goes.
- [143:56]
Brian Windhorst
So, Malik, I have to point out that coming up on December 14th.
- [144:01]
Ramona Shelburne
Yep.
- [144:02]
Brian Windhorst
Kent State, who I would like to point out is off to a 6 and 1 start, is playing at Portland 1.
- [144:09]
Tim McMahon
Aha.
- [144:11]
Ramona Shelburne
Do we need to. You and I need to have a little friendly discussion about this?
- [144:14]
Brian Windhorst
I mean, I'm just hoping that you don't ask for points because Kent State is, you know, a juggernaut, apparently this.
- [144:20]
Tim Bontemps
Year Malika better be getting points.
- [144:22]
Brian Windhorst
This is not cap quarter.
- [144:23]
Ramona Shelburne
This is Kent State corner. Now, I didn't, I'm.
- [144:25]
Tim Bontemps
Now I'm.
- [144:26]
Brian Windhorst
Now.
- [144:26]
Ramona Shelburne
I didn't realize I was coming on here to be the college sports aficionado here.
- [144:30]
Brian Windhorst
I am. Yes. Yes. I think that there should be some sort of wager. I think that I should maybe get points because the game is. Is in Oregon. That's.
- [144:40]
Tim Bontemps
Relax, relax.
- [144:41]
Brian Windhorst
Way to travel.
- [144:42]
Tim Bontemps
Relax, relax. You know, don't come on here saying Kent State's a juggernaut and then start whining for points.
- [144:47]
Ramona Shelburne
I will say Brian. Brian is Brian, you know, big money.
- [144:52]
Brian Windhorst
Wendy over here is.
- [144:54]
Ramona Shelburne
When he signed up his new deal, I walked into my. My little closet at ESPN and there.
- [145:02]
Brian Windhorst
Was a lovely little note from Brian.
- [145:04]
Ramona Shelburne
And somehow he knew where I like.
- [145:07]
Brian Windhorst
To shop for horse stuff.
- [145:10]
Ramona Shelburne
And he had called and like put money on my account as a thank.
- [145:15]
Brian Windhorst
You, which I don't know what for because Brian is the most.
- [145:19]
Ramona Shelburne
You know, this is all him on his own. So I feel like I am already.
- [145:22]
Brian Windhorst
In debt to Brian in the gift giving department here. Did you guys hear that?
- [145:25]
Ramona Shelburne
Yeah.
- [145:26]
Tim McMahon
Did you get a thank you note and a little gift?
- [145:29]
Tim Bontemps
Obviously not.
- [145:30]
Tim McMahon
We don't. We apparently don't do anything for them.
- [145:33]
Tim Bontemps
No, nothing we're dragging behind him. Like, like, I guess.
- [145:39]
Tim McMahon
I guess you just have to have your own reserve closet at the esp.
- [145:43]
Tim Bontemps
That's right.
- [145:43]
Tim McMahon
To get a thank you.
- [145:44]
Tim Bontemps
That's right. I grew up on a farm. I never had a horse.
- [145:48]
Ramona Shelburne
Same each other's.
- [145:49]
Brian Windhorst
Same suit every single time. So once we take that up, it is unfair.
- [145:55]
Ramona Shelburne
We got to get in one MBA topic. Before I jump off, what do you.
- [145:59]
Brian Windhorst
Want to talk about as an avid listener?
- [146:00]
Ramona Shelburne
All right, I want to talk about.
- [146:02]
Brian Windhorst
Let's, let's. We have a triple header on ESPN on Wednesday. That's right.
- [146:06]
Tim Bontemps
Here we go. Right in a. Right at a host mode.
- [146:08]
Ramona Shelburne
Have touched on that. I'm ready to host through that day.
- [146:12]
Brian Windhorst
I'm really excited about the Detroit Pistons.
- [146:14]
Ramona Shelburne
Which is not something I feel like I, I've said a whole lot of.
- [146:18]
Brian Windhorst
This far into the year, very many times. And we had a stat on the.
- [146:21]
Ramona Shelburne
Show the other day that blew my mind. And then I'm, I'm getting the, you.
- [146:24]
Tim McMahon
Know, the TV wrapped the last time relevant. You were in diapers, Malika.
- [146:28]
Tim Bontemps
So.
- [146:28]
Jamal Collier
Yeah.
- [146:28]
Tim McMahon
You've never said that.
- [146:30]
Brian Windhorst
The exact stat, the exact date that.
- [146:34]
Ramona Shelburne
The Pistons were on an 11 game.
- [146:36]
Brian Windhorst
Winning streak this year.
- [146:38]
Ramona Shelburne
Exact same day that they they that came to fruition. They were on an 11 game losing.
- [146:43]
Brian Windhorst
Streak two years ago.
- [146:44]
Ramona Shelburne
And I think that's a wild, illustrative turnaround about this.
- [146:48]
Brian Windhorst
So I am all in on Motorcade and what's happening in Detroit.
- [146:51]
Ramona Shelburne
And now I'm all in on Syracuse basketball.
- [146:54]
Brian Windhorst
All right, enjoy it. Malika.
- [146:56]
Tim Bontemps
Yeah.
- [146:56]
Brian Windhorst
Thank you for stopping us. Bye.
- [146:58]
Ramona Shelburne
Bye.
- [147:01]
Brian Windhorst
All right, that was friendsgiving. I hope you enjoyed it. If you made it to the end, bonus points for you on your. On your HOOPP collective rewards system, which I just made up. Thank you to Jamal Collier, Bobby Marks. Not. Thank you, Dave McMinnamon. He was scheduled to be on it, but then he didn't show up so he could go to the Syracuse game. Thank you to Malika Andrews. Thank you to Om Yung Masook. Thank you to Michael Corleone Wright. Thank you to Anthony Slater. Thank you to Vince Goodwill. Thank you to Tim Bontemps and Tim McMahon. And a special thank you to Jackson for putting it all together and skipping a Syracuse game, because I think there's one going on right now as we're recording this and I think he's just missing it. And thank you for spending your time with us and we will talk to you next week.
- [147:49]
Tim McMahon
I hope McMenamin really enjoyed that Syracuse loss. Adios, amigos.