Playoff Preview + Wild Press Conference In Dallas

Summary

Episode Summary: Playoff Preview + Wild Press Conference In Dallas

Podcast: Brian Windhorst & The Hoop Collective
Host: Brian Windhorst
Guests: Tim Bontemps, Tim McMahon, Ben McMahon
Release Date: April 16, 2025

---

1. Introduction to the NBA Playoffs

Brian Windhorst kicks off the episode by highlighting the commencement of the NBA playoffs, discussing key games from Wednesday night. He mentions the intense matchup between Golden State Warriors and Memphis Grizzlies, emphasizing Steph Curry's exceptional performance despite heavy officiating in the fourth quarter.

• Quote:
  “Steph Curry made four or five tremendous plays down the stretch... he was being double teamed by the Grizzlies, as you'd expect because he's one of the greatest free throw shooters of all time.”
  (02:02)

Tim McMahon adds insights on the dynamic duo of Curry and the newly acquired Jimmy Butler, projecting their combined impact on the Warriors' playoff prospects.

• Quote:
  “The Warriors scored more than 12... it was a two-man show and those guys rocked and rolled their way through the game.”
  (03:05)

---

2. Analysis of the Warriors vs. Grizzlies Game

The hosts delve deeper into the Warriors' strategy, particularly Steve Kerr's decision to use Steph Curry defensively during an inbound play, which they found perplexing.

• Quote:
  “I didn't understand why Steve Kerr had Steph Curry on the ball. He put Curry into the game to guard the ball in the inbound.”
  (03:00)

Tim Bontemps discusses the recent trade acquisition of Jimmy Butler by the Warriors and the immediate positive impact he has had alongside Curry, suggesting that this duo could lead the team through the playoffs effectively.

• Quote:
  “If he and Steph can play like this, the Warriors have a chance to win a couple of rounds in the playoffs.”
  (04:03)

---

3. Challenges Facing the Grizzlies

The conversation shifts to the Memphis Grizzlies, focusing on their inconsistency and recent injuries, notably Ja Morant's ankle injury, which could hamper their playoff run.

• Quote:
  “John Morant turns his ankle nastily in the third quarter... he was clearly hobbled and now they got to play on.”
  (05:41)

Tim McMahon points out the Grizzlies' struggles against top Western Conference teams, citing their recent performances as indicators of their playoff challenges.

• Quote:
  “Memphis Grizzlies cannot beat a good Western Conference team that they've only been since January... they just not quite enough.”
  (06:31)

---

4. Critique of Dallas Mavericks' Management

A significant portion of the episode is dedicated to critiquing the Dallas Mavericks' management decisions, particularly the controversial trade involving Luka Dončić and Kyrie Irving. The hosts express skepticism about the long-term viability of the Mavericks' strategy, highlighting a lack of coherent planning and poor trade outcomes.

• Quote:
  “When you let someone who's got a very short-term view make long-term decisions. Your franchise gets completely bleeped for the long term.”
  (19:20)

Tim McMahon vehemently criticizes the Mavericks' GM Nico Harrison, detailing the illogical nature of recent trades and the negative reception from the fan base.

• Quote:
  “There is no explanation. Everything they've done since then has been as illogical as the trade.”
  (14:34)

---

5. Eastern Conference Playoff Predictions

Brian Windhorst and his co-hosts shift focus to the Eastern Conference, analyzing key series such as the Knicks vs. Pistons and Bucks vs. Pacers. They discuss team strengths, player performances, and potential outcomes based on current form and playoff experience.

• Quote:
  “Jalen Brunson is a proven postseason performer... he had four straight games of 40 points or more in the playoffs last year.”
  (33:43)

Tim Bontemps advocates for the Knicks, asserting their superior playoff experience over the young Pistons roster, while Tim McMahon acknowledges the Pistons' impressive regular-season performance but remains skeptical about their ability to overcome the Knicks' veteran presence.

• Quote:
  “The Pistons are playing with house money... one team's playing with house money and one team's got the weight of the world on their shoulders.”
  (31:22)

---

6. Western Conference Series Breakdown

The discussion moves to the Western Conference, covering matchups like the Clippers vs. Nuggets and Lakers vs. Timberwolves. The hosts evaluate team strategies, player health (notably Kawhi Leonard's performance and Nikola Jokić's dominance), and coaching impacts.

• Quote:
  “Tim Bontemps picks Denver to win the series because... they have Nikola Jokić, who's still the best player on the planet.”
  (54:07)

Brian Windhorst commends the Clippers' defensive strategies under Jeff Van Gundy and Tyron Lue, while Tim McMahon expresses uncertainty about Kawhi Leonard's ability to finish playoff series significantly.

• Quote:
  “The Clippers have been unbelievable the last few months... if he can make it through the series healthy, the Clippers can absolutely win it.”
  (50:05)

---

7. Playoff Strategies and Team Dynamics

The hosts delve into specific team dynamics, such as the Bucks' reliance on Giannis Antetokounmpo and the Bucks' strategic adjustments in the absence of key players like Damian Lillard for their matchup against the Pacers.

• Quote:
  “Giannis is capable, but boy, is this a big challenge.”
  (43:28)

Tim Bontemps discusses the Pacers' ability to stifle Giannis' performance and the importance of Pascal Siakam and other role players in the Bucks' strategy.

• Quote:
  “The Pacers have no ability to stop [Giannis] from doing that... the whole series comes down to which of that equation is going to win out.”
  (39:28)

---

8. Closing Remarks and Future Episodes

As the episode wraps up, the hosts engage in light-hearted banter about their personal experiences covering the playoffs and tease upcoming content, including potential coaching changes and further playoff analyses.

• Brian Windhorst concludes by expressing excitement for upcoming series and the continuation of their playoff coverage.

---

Key Takeaways

• Warriors vs. Grizzlies: Steph Curry and Jimmy Butler lead Warriors to victory despite coaching decisions that raised questions.

• Grizzlies' Struggles: Injuries and inconsistent performances pose significant challenges for Memphis in the playoffs.

• Mavericks' Management Critique: The Mavericks face criticism for questionable trade decisions and lack of coherent long-term strategy.

• Eastern Conference Insights: The Knicks are favored over the Pistons due to playoff experience, while the Bucks are under pressure to leverage Giannis' performance against the Pacers.

• Western Conference Matchups: The Clippers' defensive prowess and the Bucks' reliance on Giannis highlight critical aspects of their playoff runs, with uncertainties surrounding key players' health impacting potential outcomes.

---

Notable Quotes with Timestamps

• “Steph Curry made four or five tremendous plays down the stretch... he was being double teamed by the Grizzlies, as you'd expect because he's one of the greatest free throw shooters of all time.”
  — Brian Windhorst (02:02)

• “When you let someone who's got a very short-term view make long-term decisions. Your franchise gets completely bleeped for the long term.”
  — Tim McMahon (19:20)

• “Giannis is capable, but boy, is this a big challenge.”
  — Brian Windhorst (43:28)

• “The Pacers have no ability to stop [Giannis] from doing that... the whole series comes down to which of that equation is going to win out.”
  — Tim Bontemps (39:28)

---

This episode provides a comprehensive analysis of the current NBA playoff landscape, offering critical insights into team performances, management decisions, and player impacts. The engaging discussions, coupled with notable quotes, deliver a thorough understanding of the playoff dynamics for both avid fans and casual listeners.

Transcript

[Brian Windhorst]

There are people out there all across the country pushing boundaries to grow the game of golf. Like champion speed golfer Lauren Kupp, who plays faster than anyone else. And Will Lowrey, whose work in the golf community inspires more kids to get into the game. As a champion partner of the Masters, bank of America supports everyone determined to find out what's possible in golf and in life. What would you like the power to do? Bank of America? Bank of America NA Member FDIC Copyright 2025 bank of America Corporation. All rights reserved. Foreign welcome to the Hoop Collective podcast. We talk about the NBA, which we're doing after midnight on Thursday morning. Joining me from New York City is Tim Bontemps.

[Tim Bontemps]

Hello, everybody.

[Brian Windhorst]

Joining me from Sacramento, California, where he's at the site of Wednesday night's play in between Dallas and Sacramento. We did this pot in two different pieces and the second half of the piece he'll have been in Dallas. But for this half following the games tonight on Tuesday night, from Sacramento is Ben McMahon.

[Tim McMahon]

Howdy, partners. It has been one hell of a day. Whole lot happening.

[Brian Windhorst]

That's right.

[Tim Bontemps]

All right, let's just been a busy guy today.

[Brian Windhorst]

Let's get right into it. The NBA playoffs have indeed started. We got a full throated playoff game on Wednesday night between Golden State and Memphis won at the end by Golden State. Um, we also had a game in Orlando. Trae Young got ejected. The Magic finished very strongly. We'll talk about the Eastern Conference at a later time. We've got to focus on playoff Jimmy.

[Tim McMahon]

And play in Jimmy.

[Brian Windhorst]

Play in Jimmy and playoff Jimmy and just regular great Steph Curry. This was really. There was a lot going on in this game. A little bit too much officiating late. The both teams, I think had points in the fourth quarter which took like, it felt like 50 minutes to play.

[Tim Bontemps]

The fourth quarter, well, it was a three. It was a full three hour game in regulation.

[Brian Windhorst]

Yeah, I think, yeah. Too many whistles in general, but I don't know. Generally it evened out. What really mattered here. Steph Curry made four or five tremendous plays down the stretch. Two, three pointers, two clutch three pointers, four clutch free throws. And I have to say some amazing play without the ball on out of bounds plays in the final minute. A cup. He was to. He was being double teamed by the Grizzlies, as you'd expect because he's one of the greatest free throw shooters of all time. He twice looked like an all pro wide receiver. Getting open to get the ball to get fouls. And then I didn't quite Understand, in basically the coup de GR of the game, I didn't understand why Steve Kerr had Steph Curry on the ball. He put Curry into the game to guard the ball in the inbound. Santi Alama. The Grizzlies had an opportunity to hit a three to tie the game with five seconds left. Curry's leaping up and down, leaping up and down in front of Aldama, who's what got what, six inches, seven inches on him?

[Tim Bontemps]

Yeah.

[Brian Windhorst]

And Aldama doesn't get the ball. And it's a five second call though. I'd like to see the counter on that.

[Tim McMahon]

But Aldama was so surprised Steph was in there. What's this guy doing? It took him five seconds to figure it out and suddenly it's a violation.

[Tim Bontemps]

Look, here's the. Here's the whole story of this game. And it goes back to the week of the trade deadline. Mike Dunleavy chose to trade for his old teammate, Jimmy Butler. It was to put Jimmy Butler together with Steph Curry. Here's their first playoff game together. Combined 75 points and 10 assists going 25 for 25 for 31 from the foul line. And nobody else on. The warriors scored more than 12. It was a two man show and those guys rocked and rolled their way through the game. And look, Memphis came back, made a lot more interesting to look like me in the first half. But this was the vision that the warriors had, was these two guys can lead this team on a run through the playoffs playing and. Well, yes, through the playoffs, bro. Now they're in the playoffs because they won today.

[Tim McMahon]

Okay? And we'll see what happens here. Just poof, gone until whatever on that.

[Tim Bontemps]

It's fine. We. Okay, fine. The point is Jimmy. This is the version of Jimmy Butler the Warriors traded for. And over the last couple weeks when he has had games or hasn't really been shooting the ball and has been doing a lot, I was curious to see what version Jimmy Butler would show up in the playoffs. Playoff.

[Brian Windhorst]

I wasn't curious. I wasn't curious. I knew exactly.

[Tim Bontemps]

I wanted to see if he could still dial it up like this. And in the first game he dialed it up like this. And if he and Steph can play like this, the warriors have a chance to win a couple rounds in the playoffs.

[Tim McMahon]

Well. And I guarantee you they'll head to Houston thinking they have the two best players in that series. Guarantee you that they might be a seven seed. The Rockets are a two seed. I'm curious to see what the odds are, but man, that One's got some juice to it. Like I said, I'm fired up to see I'm in Thompson on Steph Curry. I'm fired up to see Steph Curry and have maybe another little chit chat with old email doka. They like to just pal around there right at mid court from time to time. And you know Steph Curry has been haunting Houston Rockets fans come playoff time for a long, long time. The primary reason James Harden never got to a conference finals in Houston or to a finals in Houston is because his damn Golden State warriors kept getting in the way.

[Brian Windhorst]

So I thought Desmond Bain played a great game tonight from Memphis. He had five threes and he had two or three of them that rattled out. He very easily could have had more unfortunate for Memphis, which I mean almost expected at this point that they would have an injury because they all, they all. He has all. They always have injuries. It's just, it's just part of their, their M.O. at this point. John Morant turns his ankle nastily in the third quarter. I didn't get a clean look on the replay. Did it actually come down on Buddy Heald's foot or did he just tweaked it?

[Tim Bontemps]

Yeah, I think he just tweaked.

[Tim McMahon]

I didn't get a good look either. I think it did, but I wasn't sure.

[Brian Windhorst]

Well, they called a foul and Bud healed on the play. But the point is, is he turned the ankle very badly. He came back and played the last seven or eight minutes. He made a couple of baskets but he was not a factor down the stretch of this game. He was clearly hobbled and now you know, you know that ankle's going to blow up and they've got to fly for four hours. I don't know if they're going to fly tonight or if they're flying tomorrow, but whenever. They're going to have to fly for four hours and that going to be ain't going to be good for that ankle. And now they got to play on and so he's. I don't know what he's going to be.

[Tim McMahon]

I do have good news. They don't have to play a good team because the Memphis Grizzlies cannot beat a good Western Conference team that they only went. They've only been since January since they beat a plus 500 team in the Western Conference. They won't have to worry about that on Friday. The old mighty Mavs or them Kangs are coming and I think the Grizzlies will be okay.

[Tim Bontemps]

Well, listen, the Grizzlies twice in the last five days have had one of the elite teams in the west, in theory Golden State and Denver on the road in both games up in the fourth quarter, both games, couldn't win either one. And that's going to be what defines their season. They win that game on Wednesday or Friday, I should say, in Denver. They're a top six team in the west and we'll see what their run looks like in the playoffs. They win this game today, they get a Houston team they certainly would have gone into the series feeling like they could beat. Instead, they're either going home on Friday or they're drawing dead against Oklahoma City. And that really sums up their whole season, just not, just not quite enough.

[Brian Windhorst]

On February 5th, they were the 2 seed. Actually, later than that, they took over the 2 seat. On February 5th, they Were the 2 seed as late as February 20th. Okay, the, the, when they, when they fired Taylor Jenkins, they were tied for the four seed. Okay, they came in tonight as the eight and they had a lead in this game. They've had some bad luck, but they've also let this slip through. And you know, Jaw's injury had obviously affected how they slipped from the, from the down.

[Tim McMahon]

But bad, bad, bad luck, sure, but they've been a pretty bad team.

[Brian Windhorst]

Yeah, I know.

[Tim McMahon]

For months now.

[Tim Bontemps]

Like really, dude, look, the last time they beat a Western Conference playoff team was on January 30th.

[Brian Windhorst]

Wow.

[Tim McMahon]

I mean, come on, beat the Rockets. They fired Taylor Jenkins when he did because that climb and looked at this and said this thing's flaming out in the first round and ain't nothing we've seen since then. Change your mind on that, that's for sure.

[Tim Bontemps]

Well, it's something to watch on Friday. I think they're going to win the game on Friday. But if they don't win the game on Friday, Memphis Grizzlies traded a lot of protected first round pick to get rid of Marcus Smart back in February. So if they lose that game on Friday, they'll get the 14th pick in the draft. Just something to watch in that game, see how it goes.

[Brian Windhorst]

A couple of things about Golden State in this game. First off, they didn't get much help. Moses Moody hit a couple of shots. They didn't get much help outside Butler and Curry, by the way, Butler and Curry combined for 31 free throws. Some of the fouls on Curry at the end were intentional, but that's an aspect of their game that, that they didn't have before. Also, they got out, rebounded pretty heavily. I don't remember what the number was. I think it was around 20 by the Clippers.

[Tim Bontemps]

Oh, sorry, I thought you meant in this game.

[Brian Windhorst]

Clippers on Sunday they got it rebounded by around 20 and we saw Zubach have. Zubots have 17 in this game. Zach eating had 17 and, and they got as. As the Bon Temps are saying. They got rebounded by 11.

[Tim Bontemps]

Yeah. 50 to 39.

[Brian Windhorst]

This is, you know, this is going to be a thing. They're, they're at a rebounding deficit the way they play small. We saw Steve Kerr at times put multiple bigs out there. He went to Kevon Looney a little bit. In that next series, I think you're going to see Houston, you know, Houston isn't huge.

[Tim McMahon]

Hey, dude, I mean, hold on. Houston's been playing Shingoon and Steven Adams together, right? Well, can get big and physical.

[Brian Windhorst]

Well, I don't know if they can play them together against this lineup, but.

[Tim Bontemps]

I guess there's a lot of non shooters. Listen, there's a lot of non shooters out there for the Warriors. I mean, Draymond Green, you don't have to bother guarding them at this point. I mean, if they play Looney at all, you certainly have to worry about guarding him. Gary Payton, that you saw tonight, the Grizzlies left him alone to shoot the ball. He had a couple shots. But like the warriors, obviously Steph is a, the greatest shooter of all time, but there's some other guys you can hide guys on and you know, McMahon's around the rockets all the time. You know, we know how IME Adoka wants to play. They're going to be big and physical and rough and tumble and they're going to. It's going to be like the game we saw 10 days ago when these two teams played. I mean, Tim mentioned Amend Thompson going up against Steph Curry. That game was also a physical Rock of sock'em Robots game. And you know, if this becomes a physical rock'em sock'em Robots series, that's not what the warriors want. Not against this Rockets team.

[Tim McMahon]

Dude, they got Thompson to guard Curry. They got Brooks to guard Butler. Hey, the warriors got two, two hall of Fame dudes. I mean really three, but two hall of Fame scores, Offensive scores. Yeah, yeah, like, but they got some, they got some guys to. To match up.

[Tim Bontemps]

Got some, gonna be Rocket's got some dudes for sure.

[Tim McMahon]

I think we're fine this day. We're looking at, we're looking at Adam's combo.

[Brian Windhorst]

We're looking at three pretty good looking series in the west right now. I'm just going to tell you that. I mean, who knows what will happen?

[Tim McMahon]

But they've only played 162 minutes this year. You want to guess what their net rating is in 162 minutes? Adams and Shingoon.

[Tim Bontemps]

Sure, it's good. I want to know what their offensive rebound rate is.

[Tim McMahon]

Okay. Guess their net rating first, you bozo.

[Brian Windhorst]

I was trying to be expedient.

[Tim McMahon]

Plus 29.9.

[Tim Bontemps]

Okay. What's their offensive rebound rate?

[Tim McMahon]

87. Seriously? I don't get this, though.

[Tim Bontemps]

I'm not sure it's accurate.

[Tim McMahon]

51.4. They grab more than half of their missed shots. When those guys are on board again, they just bludgeon you on the boards.

[Tim Bontemps]

Yes, that is. That is the thing to watch. And we're going to see that lineup at BET in that series.

[Brian Windhorst]

Pat Riley once said, no rebounds, no rings. So let's see how that plays out.

[Tim McMahon]

Ooh, smooth transition. Nico Harrison said a thousand times, a defense wins championships in Dallas today.

[Brian Windhorst]

Before you flew out there on the big bird, McMahon, you had a little meeting with Nico Harrison and Rick Welts. Uh, the floor is yours. On how that went down.

[Tim McMahon]

Well, I would like to just assure everybody. I know there's a lot of concern. We did talk those Mavs PR folks out of not letting us record our own audio. That was a big point of contention. We. So we got to turn on the. Turn that little audio on, do a little transcribing. Didn't have to wait for theirs to come out later in the day. Rick Welts wanted to chit chat about those arena plans next decade and darn it if can. I didn't want to talk about a trade.

[Brian Windhorst]

Rick Weltz is a host.

[Tim Bontemps]

Can I. I would like to read the first question that was asked in this press conference today.

[Tim McMahon]

Okay.

[Tim Bontemps]

Can I read it?

[Tim McMahon]

It was a good question. I don't know.

[Tim Bontemps]

It was a good question.

[Tim McMahon]

You need me to sound it out for you?

[Tim Bontemps]

And I was. By our colleague Tim McMahon. He was asked this question. I just want to.

[Tim McMahon]

You have to read it, because if I did, it might be too close to releasing the audio, which we agreed we wouldn't do.

[Tim Bontemps]

I just want to. I just want to read this question for the people at home who Wonder about Tim McMahon's reporting chops. This is the very first question asked at this press conference, or whatever we're calling it.

[Tim McMahon]

This is like 50 minutes intimate gather by Rick Welts and Nico Harrison.

[Tim Bontemps]

Okay? Quote, you've got an outraged fan base. It's been outraged since the day you made the trade. The overwhelming majority opinion of your fan base is they want you fired. How do you respond to that? And why do you believe that Patrick Dumont should not take them up on that advice? I just would like to say that is a howitzer of an opening question at 8.

[Brian Windhorst]

At. At the.

[Tim Bontemps]

I'm not saying it was. It was an incredible question.

[Tim McMahon]

I mean, like, let's. Let's get to it.

[Tim Bontemps]

I'm giving you props, buddy. That's an unbelievable way to start this sucker off.

[Tim McMahon]

And he was, you know, he was ducking and dodging and defend, you know, defense wins. I seriously said defense wins championships like eight times. And it got to a point where I said, so the core of your finals team last year with Luke is a centerpiece, couldn't continue to contend for titles. He said, I'll say it again. Defense wins championships. And he, he said, hey, you saw it. You. We, you saw that we put a championship caliber team on the court for two and a half quarters. For two and a half quarters, brother.

[Tim Bontemps]

Crazy.

[Tim McMahon]

No, I watched bleep blah, blah, finals run last year. That was a little bit more convincing than two and a half. I mean, I'm going to cuss two and a half quarters.

[Tim Bontemps]

I mean, here's the thing.

[Tim McMahon]

We. We've been biting my tongue here.

[Tim Bontemps]

The last time. The last time we heard Nico Harrison talk, right, was the day after the trade was made in Cleveland at the little gathering with you and a couple other reporters in Cleveland, right? It's been two and a half months since then. And the. All of that time, all the thinking about it, all the this, the ways to try to come up with an explanation for the trade, I'd say it's fairly concerning.

[Tim McMahon]

There's no explanation.

[Tim Bontemps]

There's no explanation.

[Brian Windhorst]

He made a very clear statement. Regardless of everything that he has seen, regardless of the unfortunate outcome of Kyrie Irving tearing his acl, regardless of Anthony Davis getting hurt two and a half quarters into his first game, regardless of.

[Tim McMahon]

When he rushed back too soon to try to get the world off of Nico's back, by the way. Go on.

[Brian Windhorst]

Maybe.

[Tim McMahon]

No maybe.

[Brian Windhorst]

When. Regardless of the fact that Luca came back, wept. Wept on the bench and then dropped 45 around fire. Nico Harrison, chance, regard. Regardless of all that Nico Harrison said, no regrets now, but no logic. Why did he have this press conference, Tim McMahon?

[Tim McMahon]

Because Patrick Dumont made him. Because he was supposed to do it two weeks ago and for some reason he was able to push it back. He was supposed to do it before Luca Came back to town.

[Brian Windhorst]

And why did Patrick Dumont want him to have this press conference?

[Tim McMahon]

Because it has been the worst two and a half month run of PR that I can remember in NBA history. And I gotta tell you, it didn't get better today. How about poor Rick Wells? This dude's a Hall of Famer. But he's there to build the damn arena.

[Brian Windhorst]

He's there to get there, which I'm sure he will. I'm sure he could get.

[Tim McMahon]

And he got Chase center done like the guy, you know like all star weekends. His Rick Welch. He's trying to like put up a little shield for Nico. This man compared trading Luca to when the warriors traded Monte Ellis and Joe Lake of got booed to when the Suns traded Steph Marbury to when the fricking Seattle Sonics. These are all teams he worked for. The Seattle Sonics traded 34 year old Lenny Wilkins. No time all star Montales on a team that hadn't been in the playoffs in years. Three time or two time sec. Third team all NBA. Steph Marbury. No, this is a five time first team all NBA player entering his prime who's fresh off taking your team to the clean finals. Unprecedented and incredibly illogical.

[Tim Bontemps]

Yeah, I mean look, I know what.

[Brian Windhorst]

He was trying Look, I know what Rick Waltz is trying to do.

[Tim Bontemps]

It was trying to do too.

[Brian Windhorst]

It was flimsy. But what he's trying to say is trust us is what he's trying to say.

[Tim Bontemps]

Look, that's all, that's all well and good. If you're gonna, if you're. When you make a move like this, right? If you make a controversial trade like this, you have to have an ability to explain why you did it. And the problem that the Mavericks have had from the moment the trade was made is that everything they've done since then has been as illogical as the trade. From immediately calling and spinning to our guy about why it was done five seconds after it was made. Clearly knowing they were going to have to do that. All the way up to the bizarre way they handled Lucas showing up last week to this press conference today. None of it's made sense from the beginning. There's been no plan from the beginning. There's been no logical through line to it from the beginning. And reading through this transcript today, dude, like it just, it just there, it's clear sitting there. There's no ability to lay out a logical plan when again you could say, oh well, defense wins championships. Well, as you pointed out McMahon in your story, the Mavericks defense was just Fine. Last year they were the number one.

[Tim McMahon]

Final league for the last three games. And then was it the problem the finals, they couldn't score. By the way, if defense was such a problem, why was your big move of the summer signing Klay Thompson? So also.

[Tim Bontemps]

That's right.

[Tim McMahon]

And Nico's hey. Now one thing Nico said was his trades generally have not been not received immediate good reviews and most of them have worked out. He did succeed with the Kyrie trade, no question about that. The Daniel Gafford trade was a success. The freaking PJ Washington trade was an immediate success.

[Tim Bontemps]

Daniel Gafford, PJ Washington trades were successes because Luka Dotich made them successes. Now Luka is not there.

[Tim McMahon]

And by the way, the Grant Williams trade, not so much. But in those four deals you gave up 27, top two to Charlotte, 28 swapped OKC 29 is now Houston's unprotected 30, unprotected swap to the Spurs. I asked Nico about this and he gave me a can you repeat that?

[Tim Bontemps]

This was a great exchange. By the way, when you asked him about this four different times.

[Tim McMahon]

I'm asking him like in your own words. You created a three to four year time frame in building the finals team. The team went to the finals last season. You gave up your first round control in 28, 27, 28, 29, 30. So three to four years ends you're out of your first round draft capital. How is that a logical decision? Explain the logic of that for the team's long term best interest. He said, can you repeat that? So I repeat it and added a little bit more. And he said, I keep saying the same thing, but defense wins championships like. And then honestly the rest of what he said here is ridiculous. He ends up with, you know, it's a bunch of blah, blah, blah blah. He ends up with, we're excited about the future of our team. You know, I think once we win then that will change your mind. Now Christian Clark with the Athletic asked him a little bit later, hey, when those picks are due, do you envision yourself as a general manager? The man said, I've got three years left on my contract. I plan on finishing that. In other words, he ain't gonna be holding the bag. This is what happens when you let somebody who's got a very short term view make long term decisions. Your franchise gets completely bleeped. For the long term. This thing is dark in Dallas and it's going to get worse. This is going to be potentially a 90s type of disaster of a franchise in Dallas.

[Brian Windhorst]

Defense wins championships.

[Tim McMahon]

Well, our guy.

[Tim Bontemps]

Our guy Wendy does love to point out defensive rating rankings for teams. So he and Nico clearly. They're clearly aligned.

[Brian Windhorst]

Well, and.

[Tim McMahon]

And it was damn good for the Mavericks. Here's down the stretch last season into the playoffs.

[Brian Windhorst]

In all.

[Tim Bontemps]

In all honesty, I'm just having a little fun. Little fun.

[Brian Windhorst]

He should just throw himself and say, well, we have a devastating injury to our franchise point guard.

[Tim McMahon]

Well, and he did that.

[Tim Bontemps]

He.

[Tim McMahon]

You know, that's the two and a half quarters thing. Championship caliber team, two and a half course, whatever. A three to four year time frame to get rid of the franchise player who just took you to the finals entering his prime for a three to four year timeframe when you owe all that draft capital is illogical. It is incredibly nonsensical. Also, this whole thing. He tried again to say, well, we didn't know if Luca was gonna sign the supermax. Like, dude, no, you don't get to do that.

[Brian Windhorst]

That's not crap. You don't was gonna sign it. It was a matter of whether they wanted to offer it.

[Tim McMahon]

But okay, so don't act like you didn't know if Luca was going to commit to you like that. You're not. You're not talking to us in good faith. You're playing us like absolute fools. You're playing your fans like fools. Dude, everybody watched Luca Ball on the bench. The man was closing on his forever home in Dallas and he was not going to leave that money on the table. You didn't want Luca long term. You dumped him when if you wanted to move him. Not signing with the supermax was incredibly flawed logic. It's been terrible logic. It's been terrible results. It's been terrible pr. It is a terrible long term situation in Dallas. Talking to a team source tonight. The noise is just too loud. You just can't sustain this. You're taking on water and you can't bail fast enough. Billionaires don't like to admit they're wrong and this is a big thing to swallow. Patrick Dumont's got to look at this situation and try to figure out how the hell do we clean up this oil spill. Because you know what they did today? They sent Nico and Rick Welts out with brooms. Good luck with that, buddy.

[Tim Bontemps]

Well, there was one other fairly amazing quote in here that I'm trying to find again, where Nico Harrison, who from day one has made it very clear that he is all in on Kyrie Irving. He might not have been all in on Luka Doncic. He sure as Hell has been all in on Kyrie Irving, as you said. The first thing you pointed out was that the Kyrie Irving trade was seen as a negative trade when he was trying to justify making this trade. I'm trying to find the quote in here where he was talking about, point.

[Brian Windhorst]

Out that Kyrie has the ability to opt out of his contract.

[Tim Bontemps]

This well, correct.

[Tim McMahon]

A lot of leverage still. I told you boys that.

[Brian Windhorst]

What'd you say?

[Tim McMahon]

Listen, Nico got a whole lot of leverage. I don't care. I know. Look, he's probably not playing until late December at the earliest. Could be the All Star break.

[Brian Windhorst]

If he's playing by late December, I would like to congratulate him and the doctors.

[Tim McMahon]

I said at the earliest.

[Tim Bontemps]

Well, listen, Nico, Nico putting out that statement when he got hurt, essentially saying, we're going to have this guy here and it's going to be the greatest thing ever. Pretty much underscored where his. Where his belief is.

[Tim McMahon]

There's a world where they're a playoff team next year, but they're not like, dude, this is. That this team ain't winning a championship. And it's a very short window. And then you're completely screwed after that. Honestly, Dumont completely screwed up by giving Nico no checks, no balances, all the power in the world. And I asked him, hey, why? You know why. First of all, Dirk is completely turned off by this franchise. I'll have more on that coming out once they're eliminated. So probably Thursday morning. But like I asked, hey, why not seek Dirk's input? Why not seek Cuban's input? And he basically said, if they're not in the building, they don't know what's going on.

[Brian Windhorst]

Now, I mean, that's true on its. I mean, that's. Well, on this one, I'll agree with them.

[Tim McMahon]

Stay tuned for why Dirk's not in the building. And the reason Cuban's not in the building is because Nico made sure he got his butt kicked out of basketball operations once that sale went through.

[Tim Bontemps]

Beyond.

[Brian Windhorst]

Beyond the.

[Tim Bontemps]

The logic of trading Luka Doncic, all right, he staked this whole thing, franchise, his reputation, everything, on Anthony Davis, who is entering his 30s and has a litany of injuries across his CV over time. And Kyrie Irving, who also has a litany of injuries across the CV over time and literally just tore his acl. So that is the foundation on which he is staking the flag that this thing is going to march forward into the future. And I again say into the.

[Tim McMahon]

Into the three years left on his contract. Let's just Be clear.

[Tim Bontemps]

Well, but I, I'm just going to point out, if you take him at his word, right, and you, you've got this window. I will again point out if you're staking things on a 33 year old dude who's got a torn ACL and Anthony Davis. To me, my expectation for this summer is that the Dallas Mavericks are going to make another big old swing at something. Because if you, if you're not trading Anthony Davis, like I would argue they should, but they're clearly not going to, then you are probably going the other way and you're making another big swing with the limited assets of which they have left.

[Tim McMahon]

And I was talking to an executive today and you know, listen, everybody asks me about Nico's job security all the time and all I can say is to this point, Patrick Dumont has given him strong public support. I think this press conference is, could be considered proof that Patrick Dumont has some significant concerns. Duh. But this executive, same man, I hope he makes another transaction cycle. It's always good to have a desperate GM out there.

[Brian Windhorst]

Well, I just hope Kyrie's knee injury was successful because he had a terrible outcome of his last knee surgery when the hardware got infected and it ended up causing him all kinds of problems and was really bad and he was.

[Tim Bontemps]

And I'm not obviously rooting for the surgery to go badly either. I just, that's a, that's the same thing as Daryl Morey on Sunday declaring that Joel Embiid is going to come back 100 next season.

[Tim McMahon]

And you hope, you hope. And Tyrese, incredibly skilled. Like, the guy's work ethic is phenomenal. Like, hey, you hope it's a, it's a tough thing to base your whole franchise on though.

[Brian Windhorst]

Hang that banner that says two and a half quarters. All right, when we come back, more.

[Tim McMahon]

Hoop Collective podcast after this.

[Brian Windhorst]

Grainger knows space at your facility is limited. As a maintenance specialist, you only have so many spots for backup products in your inventory roster, which means space on your bench comes at a premium. Well, when it comes to breadth and depth, Grainger's got you covered. They've got over 1 million industrial grade products. Plus fast delivery helps reduce the inventory you need to keep on hand, freeing up space and capital while giving your operation a winning edge. Call 1-800-GRAINGER Click grainger.com or just stop by a local branch.

[Tim Bontemps]

In case you didn't know, these young men are driven. They are prodigies, the savants, the ones we've been waiting for. Like Damian Lillard, for instance. He doesn't seek guidance or mentorship. He's a leader. He isn't waiting for the baton to be passed to him. He's taking it for himself. He's relentless in a pursuit of greatness, always pushing to one up himself. He is accomplished but far from satisfied. He embodies what it means to have an unstoppable drive and are shaking up the status quo in their community and beyond. And Damian Lillard drives a Toyota. A new generation of Toyota drivers are here and they want you to know one thing. You can't stop my drive.

[Brian Windhorst]

When you're on a business trip, you know what goes completely off the rails? Your workout routine. Especially when you book a hotel that doesn't have a gym. So what ends up happening is you do a few push ups and sit ups in your room, run around the block or just skip it entirely. Lame. If you just stay at A La Quinta by Wyndham, you'll discover there's a fully equipped fitness center at every location. Now you can wake up and power your buys and tries right away or de stress with some cardio. The choice is yours tonight La Quinta. Tomorrow you shine. Book [e-mail] all right. Over the magic of television, editing, whatnot. We're now much earlier in the day. It's very early in the morning here on the west coast. We're going to take a look. Oh, McMahon's got his coffee. I hope you had a by the way McMahon. I hope you had a good day. We're in this weird spot where people will have heard how this day went and there's potentially crazy stuff that happened, you know. Plus between now and 3 o'clock today Pacific time I have to do my ballot for for the all MB for the NBA awards. So like that's a whole nother thing that will have been done by the time we're talking to you in reverse here.

[Tim McMahon]

But yeah, I might have been drinking something different in the in the a blog. I don't know.

[Brian Windhorst]

We'll see. It'll be a fascinating pivot. All right. But so we're taking ahead we're going to look ahead to this weekend. We've got four series that are locked in and I thought we would take a look at the Eastern Conference first. Bon Temps. You are going to be at the Knicks Pistons game one starting this weekend. For I have to say I've had, you know, I've got some Knick fans in my life and I'm really sorry for you. I'm really trying to give Them pep talks because the Knicks are a good team. They won 50 games. Jalen Brunson is a had a excellent year. Carl Towns had an excellent year. They are, you know, in the midst of a renaissance of their organization. You know, they, you know, they won one playoff series for like 20 years and they're favored to win a playoff series this year. I know they're not winning the championship, but it is not the end of the world. Are you going to share my pep talk for the Knicks fans or are you going to continue to feel like the rest of the New Yorkers and be down on this team?

[Tim Bontemps]

I mean, it is a funny thing because I am with you. I think the Knicks had the season. Everyone I think should have expected them too. They're the third best team in the East. They're one of the probably six or seven best teams in the league. But they made these trades last summer. The expectation was they were going to kick on from where they were. They have not. They're I think 1 in 13 against the teams with the 5 best records besides them in the league. And now they in the regular season, now they go into the playoffs and there's all these doubts about how they're going to be able to do now look, I think they're going to get steamrolled in the conference semifinals by Boston, which I think is where a lot of the pessimism comes from is that everybody here is sort of resigned to the fact that that series isn't going to go well. Same time, there are also people who think they're going to lose to the Pistons and I'm sorry, the Pistons have had a great season. Fantastic season. As you mentioned, our ballots are due today, so we'll see. I got to sit down and write out my column for Thursday and actually make my votes and I'm still not even sure if I'm going to vote for him or for JB Bickerstaff or Kenny Atkinson for coach of the year as of now. But a first time Pistons roster making the playoffs with a bunch of guys who've never played in the playoffs are not gonna beat the Knicks four out of seven times and come into MSG and win. I've seen this script before. Not going to end well. So the pessimism about the Knicks winning this series I think is unfound.

[Tim McMahon]

Well, this is what I would say and certainly if there seems to be a second round ceiling on the Knicks and I can understand the frustration from the fan base, perhaps from ownership after the off season they had as Aggressive as they were of that being kind of the. Not just the feeling, but seems like the fate in this series. The Pistons are playing with house money. Are you kidding me? From 14 wins to a six seed. More than tripling their win total and all that young group, I mean, they're. They can come in playing free, no pressure on them. Whereas the Knicks.

[Brian Windhorst]

Do you think there's no pressure on them, though? I mean, like, that the Pistons.

[Tim McMahon]

No, First. First. Nobody expected them to be.

[Brian Windhorst]

Well, yeah, but I. I would just say players, you know, and look, so they have guys who have. Well, I don't want to get in your way. Go ahead, McMahon. I'll stop.

[Tim McMahon]

We don't interrupt on this podcast. You know that.

[Brian Windhorst]

I'm sorry.

[Tim McMahon]

Okay. Maybe the playoff lights will be bright or whatever, but they're playing with house money. I think we can all agree with that. Whereas the Knicks are playing with a ton of pressure on them because of the expectations. Because of. Look, the Knicks just kind of have an inherent pressure that very few other franchises in the league have because of the market, because of the franchise history. And honestly, I think there's a lot of pressure on Tibbs in particular. You know, a first round exit would be very, very interesting and a potential franchise shifting type of development. I don't think it would happen. I'm just saying, though, I feel like one team's playing with house money and one team's got the weight of the world on their shoulders.

[Brian Windhorst]

Well, I would agree with you there. If the Knicks were to lose in the first round, then this entire conversation would have a different vibe to it.

[Tim Bontemps]

And I will agree they certainly should not be losing to this Pistons, too.

[Brian Windhorst]

But I will say that, you know, I think part of it is that the last two times these teams played, the Pistons won. Now the game last week, I think Josh Hart and OG Anunoby sat out that game. Game they played in January.

[Tim Bontemps]

D.J. tucker played 27 minutes in that game.

[Brian Windhorst]

Right.

[Tim Bontemps]

Last week. That's all I'm gonna say about that game.

[Tim McMahon]

That's 27 more than he played.

[Tim Bontemps]

That's right. That's. That's right. That's the only thing you have to say about the relevance of that.

[Tim McMahon]

How many pairs of shoes did he wear? I.

[Tim Bontemps]

Probably more than one.

[Tim McMahon]

All right, we're interrupting. Wendy, how rude of us. Go on.

[Brian Windhorst]

Anyway, I do think that there will be some. Just because I've been around teams that are making their first playoff runs together. I think the Pistons will have jitters. And I know that, you know, Tobias.

[Tim Bontemps]

Especially at msg Right.

[Brian Windhorst]

And I, and I know Tobias Harris and Malik Beasley and Tim Hardaway Jr. Have, have been around a while, but you know, Cade Cunningham and Azure Thompson and Jalen Duran, you know, like, this is going to be new for those guys. And so I think the Knicks have the advantage. They, they have a team that is a veteran team that has a lot of playoff experience. They get to start the series at home.

[Tim Bontemps]

And Jalen Brunson is a proven postseason performer.

[Tim McMahon]

Is he the best player in this series?

[Tim Bontemps]

Yes. Kate Cunningham is going to make my own BA team. I, I have not laid out my specific balance yet in terms of which team or whatever, but yeah, Jalen Brunson. Jalen Brunson had, I believe, four straight gains of 40 points or more in the playoffs last year.

[Tim McMahon]

No. And, and even going back to obviously his last playoffs in Dallas, like that is dude who is absolutely unfazed by playoff. Brett. Matter of fact, I would say he, he rises to the occasion repeatedly in these situations going back to his days at Villanova.

[Brian Windhorst]

Well, one thing I, I am mildly interested in, I assume, maybe I shouldn't assume this, but you know, one of the things that the common game plan against the Knicks is especially late in the playoff game is you put, you put big defenders on to Jalen Brunson. Jalen Brunson's face this since he was in college. So it's like, you know. But I would guess that late in these games you're going to see a Sar Thompson. Oh, yeah, put on to Jalen Brunson.

[Tim McMahon]

I'm excited to watch these Thompson twins in the playoffs because we'll see how things play out. I don't, you know, the other Thompson twin, I think is going to have a heck of a matchup and by the time his pod comes out, we'll know what that'll be. But yes, Asara I think will be a big, big factor as far as how the Pistons attempt to defend Jalen.

[Brian Windhorst]

Brunson and by the way, Asar Thompson the second half of the season, if you look up, I'm just looking up his post All Star numbers. There might even be a, a better set of numbers to look at. But after the All Star break, he averaged 11 points, five rebounds, two assists. You know, he doesn't shoot the ball well. His, his, his outside shot is not good, just like his brothers. But he did shoot 52% from the field overall.

[Tim McMahon]

So two of the top, top, top 1% type of athletes in the league and they're competitive as hell.

[Brian Windhorst]

Yes. So, you know, that is something that. Look, if it's a close like Bon Temps, I agree with you. Jalen Brunson's history of frankly his, his calmness and I mean he's very strong candidate to win clutch player of the year.

[Tim McMahon]

Co owning factor Player of the year.

[Brian Windhorst]

Is there a cone factor Player of the year. I couldn't remember. And when is that awarded? Is that awarded based on the regular season or is this. Should we expect that now?

[Tim McMahon]

Well, it's a lot of pressure. I'm not prepared.

[Brian Windhorst]

I don't mean like, I don't mean in this podcast, but like, I can't remember our.

[Tim McMahon]

Well, here's the thing. If you're doing cojones factor player there, you got to factor in playoffs because that's when them cojones.

[Brian Windhorst]

That's what I would think. That's what I would think. All right. Anyway, I agree with Bontemps that Jalen, Jalen Brunson is built for these moments. But you know, there will be a new guy to defend him down the touch of this game and we'll see. And also that's actually what I'd like to see. I'd like to see some pressure. I like to see how Cade handles it and I know it's going to.

[Tim Bontemps]

Be an awesome experience for those guys. Like you said, for Cade, for Asar, for Jalen Duran, the, you know, all these young guys going to be a great learning experience for him. And I mean, Cade's had an absolutely phenomenal year and it's going to be great to see him on this kind of stage and see what he can do.

[Brian Windhorst]

Yeah, I was talking to an executive who works for one of the teams that's in one of the play ins. I don't want to say more than that. One of eight teams. And I was talking to him about, you know, what about this, you know, would you want this route? Would you want that route? And he was like, honestly, I just want to see how our guys adapt. I don't care whether we play team A or team B. I want to see how our guys, our young guys handle this. And you know, we're not winning the championship this year. So I want to, you know, I want to put this in this position. And I would say the same thing about the Pistons, I'd say the same.

[Tim McMahon]

Thing about the Rockets. And there are two seed.

[Brian Windhorst]

Fair enough. Fair enough. Yeah. So although Dylan Brooks probably thinks it's going to be 4, 4, 4, 4.

[Tim McMahon]

He does not like, he does not lack Confidence anyway.

[Brian Windhorst]

McMahon, you picked. What did you pick this series.

[Tim McMahon]

I'll be honest, I don't remember. I think I probably pick like Knicks and six. Yeah, I feel like it's something. I think the Pistons will put up a fight. You know, the, the Knicks obviously are much further along, much more experienced, so I do think it'll be the Knicks win. I don't think it's going to be a cruise through to the second round, though.

[Brian Windhorst]

I did notice that, you know, everybody, you know, I don't pick and Bon Temps doesn't pick. I brought Bon Temps over to my.

[Tim Bontemps]

Side and I, I, I will make picks on the series. I just haven't made them yet.

[Brian Windhorst]

Oh, okay. Well, they, the, the ones that published on ESPN.com was a, was a clean sweep for the Lakers over the, the Timberwolves. And I already saw Wolves Twitter their backs were up. So the annual tradition is, is, is already, is already getting going. All right. The other east series that we know and a series that I think has the potential to be a bit spicier is Bucks and Pacers. There is no formal update on Damian Lillard. I think it's responsible to believe that Dame is not going to play in this series. I don't 100% know that, but I, I just think if I were the Pacers, I would be preparing for him not to play in the series. And if I were the Bucks, I would say the same thing. But unless there was a comment that I missed from Doc Rivers, I don't think they've officially said that, but I would. That's certainly the way I'm looking at it. I'll just leave it at that. And this is. These teams have some history dating back to last year. The Pacers have had a lot of success.

[Tim McMahon]

Oh, yeah, they got some history.

[Brian Windhorst]

The Pacers get to home court in this series, which I think is pretty valuable. I'm on the belief that beating the Pacers four out of seven is going to be hard. I, I would not project them getting past the second round. I think this series could go either way. I think the Pacers will probably win it, but I do think it could go either way because of how phenomenal Giannis has been down the stretch. His. You know, the thing about this MVP vote is Giannis has two MVPs and can hold up this season and say, this is my best season. How dare you not vote for.

[Tim McMahon]

Exactly.

[Brian Windhorst]

And Jokic has three MVPs and he can hold up this season and say, this is my best season. How dare you not vote for me? And both of them can can have.

[Tim McMahon]

A point and Shea can hold up his season and say this is a historic season for a guy who is leading a 68 win team and he's probably going to get the award. I mean, yes, but yes, we can absolutely, positively say Giannis has had an MVP caliber season and he is playing as well as he ever has. It's not the same level of, especially without Dame, but even with Dame, it's not the same level of supporting cast that he had certainly when the Bucks won a title. And again, you know, when you talk about pressure on a team going in the playoffs, it's awfully high on the Milwaukee Bucks for a wide variety of reasons.

[Brian Windhorst]

I don't know. Do you think the Bucks have because Dame, I mean the reality is the reality. The, the clock is the clock. The Bucks are the underdogs here because Dame's not playing. You know, you can say whatever you.

[Tim McMahon]

Want and you know, with him playing.

[Brian Windhorst]

People, you know, if slash when the Bucks lose, we're going to have a whole layer of like, oh my gosh, what about Giannis? They're hurt like, they're hurt like their, their second best player is out in a skin tight series like well, I mean what do you. It's bad luck. What are you.

[Tim McMahon]

Well, and Giannis was out, you know.

[Brian Windhorst]

Yes, I know.

[Tim McMahon]

And by the way, oh my God, what about Giannis? Has become an annual conversation in the, in the new book the Wonder Boy available at all Wonderful. You know, all places you can buy books these days. The draft that the Mavericks had Luka Doncic, Jalen Brunson and the last pick of that draft cost us into the Kumpo because they were trying to position themselves to when the Giannis was going to shake free. They were trying to position themselves to be in the Giannis Derby. So that's how far back this annual what about Giannis? What about Giannis conversation goes it at some point, especially this year, if they're bouncing the first round, does it finally happen? I don't know, but that's the kind of pressure the Bucks are feeling, you know. And again, if they're bouncing the first round again, I don't know what the changes will be, but I do believe there will be significant changes in Milwaukee.

[Tim Bontemps]

I mean, look, the series is very simple. The Pacers are the much better team talent wise and the Bucks clearly have the best player. And both those things are not really disputable. And it's going to be a series that comes down to which of that equation is going to win out. Is Giannis going to continue to go for 40, 17 and 10 a game, which is, feels like what he's been doing basically every game. And the Pacers really have no ability to stop him from doing that. Or the Pacers with their, the way that the, you know, the pace they play at, my threes, they get up where their offense gets going. Are they going to be able to, you know, just overwhelm him with the amount of offensive production they could put up and the overall talent they've got, that, that's the whole series. And I'll probably lean the Pacers way just because I don't think the Bucks have really that much of ability to slow anything down that they're doing over seven games. But you know, Giannis has just had an incredible season and there's a massive gap between him and the best, the second best player in the series and you know, we'll see if that's enough for Milwaukee to tip it the other way. But three years in a row, losing in the first round, whatever the circumstances around it would certainly cause a lot of discussion.

[Brian Windhorst]

I agree.

[Tim McMahon]

Bucks. The Bucks need Giannis to have four game ball worthy sort of performances in this series.

[Tim Bontemps]

Yeah.

[Brian Windhorst]

So in the games that Giannis has played since Dame went down, his stats across the board are the same as they are in their game. 30 points, shooting, 60% gets 12 rebounds. The difference is since Dame went down, he's averaging nine assists a game because he's playing point guard.

[Tim McMahon]

I mean, this is a guy, he's playing everything. He's, he's point forward, center.

[Brian Windhorst]

Yes.

[Tim Bontemps]

Yeah, he's, yeah, yeah, he's, he's play, he's point everything.

[Brian Windhorst]

And like, I mean, having covered some LeBron series where he's carried some teams, you know, doing everything, leading them in every category, like it can be done. But the strain is enormous, especially against.

[Tim McMahon]

A team like the Pacers where put your track spikes on, like you're going to be running up and down. It's going to be a, a high speed, you know, up tempo type of series. They're going to spread you out. Yeah, this is it. Giannis is, Giannis is capable, but boy, is this a big challenge.

[Brian Windhorst]

Yeah. And, and I, one of the things that I, you know, one of the things that, you know, Rick Carlisle does is he knows how to coach for a whole series. Like Rick Carlisle has strategies that are designed for seven games. And I saw that last year in the Knicks series and I, you know, they obviously benefited from the Knicks getting injured, but part of it was the Pacers wore him down. So that's the Pacer strategy. The Pacer strategy in every series, no matter who they're playing, I don't care if they are playing the Jazz. Their strategy would be to wear down, is to wear down the opposition. And so they will do that in a myriad ways. The speed of the game, the rotation that they play, all of those things. The other thing is Pascal Siakam had put up huge numbers against the Bucs this year. He is a, I mean, he's a hard cover anyway, but he's a particularly hardcover for the Bucs. Halliburton actually did not play well against the Bucks this year relatively to his, to his standard. He didn't, he didn't put up numbers. It was really Siakam who carried him in those games, which by the way, the, the Bucks won three of them. So it's hard to, it's hard to evaluate all that because you have to go back and analyze who was, who was in and who was out. But, but, but Halliburton, you know, played all four of those games and you know, in the game that they won, I think Aaron Neesmith, who was not there for some for I think two of the games, was a big factor. So nice. Smith is the next factor in that series. He's, you know, both he and Andrew Nemhardt are, were very important in their playoff run last year. They played key roles. Obviously you're going to watch Halliburton, you're going to watch Siakam, but you know, Miles Turner, obviously his role is, is elevated in this series because the Bucks play a little bigger. But you want to get a, a real feel on whether the, the game is going the Pacers way or not. Call up the box score and look at Neesmith and Nemhardt because those are guys who they defend. But if they're able to get out in transition and they got their shot going, that really elevates the way the Pacers play.

[Tim McMahon]

More Hoop Collective podcast after this.

[Tim Bontemps]

McDonald's meets the Minecraft universe with one of six collectibles and your choice of.

[Tim McMahon]

A Big Mac or 10 piece McNuggets with spicy nether Flame sauce. Now available with a Minecraft movie meal and participating McDonald's for a limited time. A Minecraft movie only in theaters.

[Tim Bontemps]

Ryan Reynolds here from Mint Mobile with a message for everyone paying Big Wireless way too much. Please, for the love of everything good in this world, stop with Mint. You can get premium wireless for just $15 a month. Of course, if you enjoy overpaying no judgments. But that's weird. Okay, one judgment anyway. Give it a [e-mail] Switch upfront payment.

[Brian Windhorst]

Of $45 for 3 month plan equivalent to $15 per month required intro rate.

[Tim McMahon]

First 3 months only, then full price.

[Tim Bontemps]

Plan options available, taxes and fees extra.

[Tim McMahon]

See full [e-mail] Are you still quoting 30 year old movies? Have you said cool beans in the past 90 days? Do you think Discover isn't widely accepted? If this sounds like you, you're stuck in the past. Discover is accepted at 99% of places that take credit cards nationwide. And every time you make a purchase with your card, you automatically earn cash back. Welcome to the now it pays to Discover. Learn [e-mail] credit card Based on the February 2024 Nelson report.

[Brian Windhorst]

Let'S take a look at the Western Conference series that we know are going to be in place. I am going to practice a speech here right now. As you guys know, sometimes I workshop things on the podcast before I roll them out on television. Even though this show is on television. We've got some jobs open in the NBA. Head coaching jobs. And I started to see names of coaches, candidates for coaches. And I have yet to see, unless I missed it, I have yet to see Jeff Van Gundy's name. Oh, and Jeff Van Gundy at this point in his career is not looking for attention and so he won't seek it. And I have a personal relationship with him. He was my colleague at ESPN for 14 years. He did.

[Tim Bontemps]

We stopped working here.

[Brian Windhorst]

Well, he stopped working.

[Tim Bontemps]

No, I've make it a joke about you being on a podcast with us. We're also colleagues of Jeff Van Gutti.

[Tim McMahon]

Yeah, but he didn't talk to me.

[Brian Windhorst]

He talked to me too.

[Tim McMahon]

Jeff, that Wendy cooks.

[Brian Windhorst]

I'm on the sofa.

[Tim McMahon]

Let him cook.

[Brian Windhorst]

You know, we had, we were, we were fortunate enough to have three Clippers on the hoop collective this season. We had Norman Powell, we had James Harden and we had.

[Tim McMahon]

No Evitza Zubots. There's no, there's only one eye and.

[Brian Windhorst]

I before the Zubots. I need like a hell, I need.

[Tim McMahon]

Like a psychology back to Van Gundy stuff.

[Brian Windhorst]

You can pronounce all three of them. All three of them. When they came on our pod praised the role that Jeff Van Gundy played in that team this year I spent, I went to a bunch of Clippers games this year up and down the line as I was talking to people with the Clippers. Jvg, jvg, jvg and obviously Tyron. And by the way Tyron Liu for bringing Jeff Van Gundy into the team and having a very strong lead assistant who he gave a lot of responsibility to as well from day one. I do not know why. First off, Jeff Van Gundy, the Clipper is just in general underrated. Ty Lou's job this year is underrated. Some of their players performances are underrated. Although they're going to be well represented I think on my ballot. Jeff Van Gundy's role is underrated.

[Tim McMahon]

Yeah. And look, Ty Lue is a championship coach, one of the best coaches in the league. Credit to him for bringing in a guy who's been a head coach at multiple spots and entrusting him and empowering him as much as he did where he said hey, run our defense. And damn, has that defense run well. And. And also like they've made some nice moves. Getting Chris done was one of the great under the radar off season transactions. Bring him back.

[Brian Windhorst]

And you remember they did it in a sign and trade that they waited. It was Russell Westbrooks sign.

[Tim McMahon]

Yeah, yeah, yeah.

[Brian Windhorst]

You know they waited a long time. It was a three team signing trade. Right. That ended up happening. Like they. I think if I'm not mistaken, Chris Dunn like agreed to become go to the Clippers and then he had to wait. Yeah, it might have been like six days, but it might have felt like six weeks to me the way he had to wait like a really long time for it to get worked out. And obviously, you know they brought in Derek Jones Jr. Yeah, that's right. Who. That was a really important signing. Anyway, Clippers have the series against the Nuggets. It's a high leverage series. McMahon, why didn't you get yourself assigned to that series? If I was out west I would want to be on that series.

[Tim McMahon]

Well, quite frankly, I'm hoping for an OKC sweep so I can come home and watch like games 5, 6 and 7 of that on my couch and hang out with the wife and kids.

[Brian Windhorst]

Man, I, I'm very excited to watch that one. We've talked about the Nuggets all year, talked about the Nuggets a lot. But I'm man, the Clippers are impressive and I don't know what's going to happen in that series. You know, Kawhi has been great. Look guys, let's just be honest. The last two years Kawhi has looked really good at the beginning of a playoffs of the first round playoff series and then he hasn't finished the series.

[Tim McMahon]

No. Last year he didn't. Last year he was banged up he was hurt last year.

[Tim Bontemps]

He looked bad and that's right.

[Brian Windhorst]

He looked great during the regular season.

[Tim McMahon]

Yeah. And last year I covered the series, I should remember fresh. But he didn't play much. And then when he did play, like he didn't play game one, he came back for game two and he just disrupted things. He wasn't himself. It kind of gummed things up. Now the guy's playing, I'm not going to say the best basketball of his career, but he's playing at an all NBA level, no question about it. And this is a team that's got a lot of momentum going in the playoffs, whereas the Nuggets are a team that just underwent. Obviously we're talking about the pressure on these other franchises. They got ahead of it. They made their massive organizational changes. And I think you've got a, you know, a championship core of Nuggets who want David Adelman to be their long term head coach. And they're, they're playing to try to ensure that that happens as well as obviously trying to compete for another title.

[Tim Bontemps]

Yeah, I mean, is Kawhi Leonard going to be playing at the end of the series?

[Tim McMahon]

Like, I don't know.

[Tim Bontemps]

That's the last three years. I think even going by now, the last two years, I think even beyond that, he hasn't finished the playoffs healthy. So, you know, if he can make it through the series healthy, the Clippers can absolutely win it. But it's hard for me to sit here right now and pick the Clippers as much as I'm tempted to, because I just feel like unfortunately I'm waiting for the other shoe to drop on Kawhi. And they have been unbelievable the last few months. Everything you said on JVG is 100% right, Brian. Joe Missoula gave him a ton of credit for the help he did as a consultant with Celtics last year too. When he got back in a little bit before. That's right, he went to the Clippers. I'm gonna vote Zubotz for defensive player of the year. He's obviously played great this season, but Van Gundy has been engineering a lot of the stuff they've done.

[Brian Windhorst]

You heard him on the pod Zoo was giving credit to Jeff. I didn't say, hey, how's Jeff doing? He brought him up like, just to be clear.

[Tim Bontemps]

But yeah, I mean, look, at the end of the day, I'm going to pick Denver to win the series for two reasons. One, I think it's probably going seven and they have home court in game seven. And two, they have Nikola Jokic, who's still the best player on the planet. And I think they're going to find a way to pull this series out. But I'm really excited to watch it because I think it's going to be the best series of the first round and it could go either way. And I just hope we're talking a couple weeks from now about there being a Game seven that final weekend and you've got Nicole Jokic against a healthy Kawhi Leonard and see who wins would be great.

[Brian Windhorst]

I don't know who's going to win, but, man, did the Clippers impress me with that win in Golden State. So let's leave it at that. All right. The other one is. I can't remember what is the other series.

[Tim McMahon]

I'm probably the NBA TV series.

[Brian Windhorst]

Oh, yeah, yeah, the NBA tv. I don't think we're going to talk much about who are the. The Timberwolves playing? I don't think we're gonna. I don't think we're going to be talking much about it on espn. I don't even remember. I think they're playing a little team in la.

[Tim McMahon]

Oh, it's the old Minneapolis. The Battle for Minneapolis Lakers.

[Brian Windhorst]

Yeah. By the way, there's only a few teams left that LeBron has not played in the postseason, and the Timberwolves are one of them. You know, he's played playoff games in like 24 NBA, 24 or 25 NBA cities.

[Tim McMahon]

You know who has played the Timberwolves in the playoffs?

[Brian Windhorst]

Luca, I seem to recall you and I last year in Minneapolis.

[Tim Bontemps]

He hasn't played Houston, has he? Neither LeBron.

[Brian Windhorst]

There's like four teams he hasn't played. He hasn't played Miami or Cleveland in the East. Oh, take it back. He did. Did they play Miami once? He hasn't played Miami or Cleveland.

[Tim McMahon]

Well, he might. He might cross off three of them this year. It might be Minnesota, Houston, and then a couple rounds later, Cleveland. We'll see who knows that. That. That's some ESPN Lakers exception wasn't for you.

[Tim Bontemps]

Sure is.

[Brian Windhorst]

Yeah.

[Tim Bontemps]

That's like some lake as exceptionalism right there.

[Brian Windhorst]

We've got a new. We've got a new colleague here at espn. Marcus Morris is doing some tv and they love at ESPN because he's brash, he's not afraid to say stuff, and he loves the Lakers chances. Boy, do they love that at espn. Yeah. So to me, there's no reason why Aunt Edwards shouldn't be jumping at the starting gates, licking his lips, saying, I want A feast. Because, look, let's be honest. The Lakers don't have great perimeter defense and they don't have great basket defense. And I know ant is a three point shooter now, but Mr. Edwards. And they're going to. Let's just be honest. The Lakers can score, and you. And you know, Luca is going to pressure them. You know, he's going to stress them out if they try to switch and put Gobert on him. You know, LeBron is going to try.

[Tim McMahon]

To switch and put anybody on him. I mean, Gobert might actually be there, one of the better matchups for him.

[Brian Windhorst]

I know, but there's so much footage. There's so much footage from. And not even just the shot where he, you know, and. And by the way, you can't guard me.

[Tim McMahon]

Jaden McDaniels is one of the best perimeter defenders in the league. He's a. He has a. Like everybody else, he has a really hard time with Luca, but especially him, because Luka is just so much stronger than him. And he can just move him wherever he wants to take him.

[Brian Windhorst]

I remember. I remember watching those games. Did we sit next to each other or was I texting you?

[Tim McMahon]

You've never sat next to me in your entire life.

[Brian Windhorst]

I remember. I remember watching Game one.

[Tim Bontemps]

Who could blame him?

[Brian Windhorst]

I remember watching Game one and I either was saying when you were sitting next to me or I was texting you. My God, is LUCA Manhandling Jaden McDaniels. And my God, is Luca getting toasted on defense. It's like two things that I remember sitting there watching going, boy, Lucas, Lucas got like 17 points in the first quarter and he's given up 22.

[Tim McMahon]

Yeah. Now, I will say this. In this, in defense of the Timberwolves, they entered that series completely gassed. They entered that series like 48 hours fresh off of that incredible game seven comeback in Denver. And Kyrie in particular really, like, came flying out the gates and took advantage of a fatigue team. They're obviously, you know, going to enter this series fresh, and obviously they're not playing the Mavericks playing a totally different team. But one thing that is true about the Lakers in every single series that they could play is they're going to have at least two of the three best players in the series. And in this one, they're going to have, what, one and three? We say ants better. LeBron. I'm not sure. Maybe one and two.

[Brian Windhorst]

Yeah. I mean, at this point, ant's role is bigger than LeBron's role, and that's by design. You don't want LeBron to have that kind of usage. But they need Ant to be the best player in the series, or at least they need him to be the best player four times. Just. I. I don't. I mean, yes, there could be a situation where you see somebody get very hot, like Dante DiVincenzo could. You know, I saw it last year, and he could have a game where he hits eight threes and is a tipping point. Then again, so could Dorian Finney Smith. But I. I'm having a hard time seeing how Minnesota is doing this unless ant just carries them home a few times.

[Tim McMahon]

Well, and the Lakers just flat out have significantly more firepower and the. The biggest war. Like we talked about, Lakers perimeter defense and all this stuff, they've done a great job masking that. You know, when you look at their defensive numbers over the second half of the season, the biggest ward either of these teams have is the Timberwolves just really struggle closing games and especially protecting late lead. If it's close down the stretch, massive, massive odds that the Lakers are able to pull it out.

[Brian Windhorst]

I'm not good. I'm not an X to no guy, and so maybe I know Bon temps is better at it than me. I also think, obviously the Wolves have a size advantage, and if they want to go super big, they can stress the Lakers out. Nas Reed, I think, will be an important player in this series. He needs to have a good series as well. Bottemps, don't you think that the lakers can hide LeBron a little bit defensively? Whether it's on Go Bear, whether It's on Jaden McDaniels, but he's a third.

[Tim McMahon]

Guy they need to hide.

[Brian Windhorst]

Well, I agree, but. But the energy. The guy they have to worry about, his energy is LeBron. That's whose energy you're saving for these fourth quarters.

[Tim Bontemps]

Yeah, well, I mean, look, the Lakers have. I mean, this is a fascinating series, like we talked about a little bit the other day, because of the stylistic challenges on both sides. Like, I would argue, the biggest ward in this series could easily be the fact that the Lakers have absolutely no.

[Tim McMahon]

Size and they don't have center size.

[Tim Bontemps]

They have no but, yes. Okay, in the paint, they have Jackson Hayes, and then they're playing Dorian Finney Smith at center. They have no size. They have positional size across the board, as we talked about a bunch. But even in that Mavs Lakers game the other day, when the Mavs had nobody who could really dribble on the court, they were still getting all sorts of Dunks in the paint. Right. Because they had a lot of size and they could attack the glass. And the Lakers really had no hope of doing anything about it. Now, the Lakers won the game because Luca hit a billion shots. And the Lakers might do that four to seven times in this series. They could easily win the series. You mentioned the the way the Wolves can implode down the stretch in games. If you got Luca and LeBron, you're probably gonna make a pretty good decisions, getting pretty good looks late in games. We've talked about Anthony Edwards decision making in these games. He's got to be better. The Lakers have absolutely nobody who can guard Anthony Davis or Anthony Edwards. He should be able to get to the rim whenever he wants.

[Brian Windhorst]

And nobody can guard Anthony Davis either.

[Tim Bontemps]

They. Well, they don't not be an issue in the series though. And like, look like you said Brian, ants gotta be 1A with Luca for them to win the series. Like, he's got to be that good. He's got a chance to be that good. He can be that good, but he's got to be that good.

[Tim McMahon]

It was 1A against Kevin Durant and Devin Booker last year. That's damn sure. Yes now. But as far as LeBron conserving energy, he does have the luxury of being able to kind of coast and be a complimentary piece offensively for the first three quarters. Not just because of Luca, which Kyrie benefited from greatly last year, helped him be maybe the best closer in the league, but also like you can put the ball in Austin Reeves hands. Austin Reaves has had it in the second half of the season. If the second half was the first half, Austin Reeves would have been an all star. That's how good he's been.

[Brian Windhorst]

Well said.

[Tim Bontemps]

And I'm also just going to say, I know, I know we work for espn, so therefore we are. We are pro Lakers all the time because that's what we do. But especially you, the Lakers. The Lakers this year were 14th in net rating. I'll score teams by about a point per 100 possessions. Minnesota was fourth, 14th by five. Well, I'm just. Hold on. I'm just saying they outscored teams by five points for 100 possessions. They were fourth in the league at point differential. The Lakers are 14th. They outscored about 300 points over the course of the season. So I'm not saying that there's that kind of gulf between the teams. The Lakers would tend to either win close or lose big and the Wolves would sort of do the opposite. My point is just that the narrative going into this series is going to be that Minnesota is a massive underdog. I don't, I don't really see that being the case at all. It's, it's a, it's a nip and tuck series that I think the Lakers should be favored to win because of the foibles we've seen from Minnesota late in games in particular. But this is a very tricky matchup for them because of series of, I think pretty clear strengths in the Wolves favor. It's a question of whether the Wolves can lock in and take advantage of that or if they'll shoot themselves in the foot too much.

[Brian Windhorst]

We have a little bit of house cleaning here at the Hoop Collective to go back to some preseason stuff that we did. We had two sets of. I don't like, I don't make predictions, so I don't know about that. But we had our wins pool way back in October. I think we, we went through our Snake drafts which I fumbled. Like if it's a Zubots's first name. Oh, that's much better as I always fumble the snake trap. But we picked our, our teams with the wins pool. So I think Bontemps has been keeping track of that. He could totally make. I don't. For the record, I have no idea. I have no memory of who I picked. He could be like, yep, guys, I won by 37 games. I'd be like, darn. And we have, we have to settle the spurs bet. But so first. Bon temps. Do you have the results of the wins pool?

[Tim Bontemps]

Here's all everybody needs to know about the winds pool. Brian out of nowhere last night says, hey, gotta do the winspool.

[Brian Windhorst]

I have no memory of who I.

[Tim Bontemps]

Here's all. I don't even need to go through. I finished third. McMahon finished second. Brian finished first. You knew Brian like the Bulls in.

[Tim McMahon]

A three way trade.

[Tim Bontemps]

You knew Brian. You knew Brian won when he brought this up. The final two picks Brian had were the Pistons and the Blazers. That's how you win. That's how you win a win.

[Tim McMahon]

Yeah, the Pistons.

[Tim Bontemps]

My final two picks were the Hornets and Wizards. Brian's were the Pistons and Blades.

[Brian Windhorst]

I think that's why I finished third.

[Tim Bontemps]

And Brian finished first. The end.

[Tim McMahon]

I had the Jazz. Huh?

[Brian Windhorst]

You had the Jazz, but did I not have the. Also the Calves and the Thunder.

[Tim Bontemps]

I had the Thunder with the first pick. But you had the Cavs. You had. You didn't have a single team with under 34 wins. And the only one you had under 40 was the Spurs. At 34, which won the.

[Tim McMahon]

Hold on spurs only 134. Damn.

[Brian Windhorst]

Yeah, that was cool how Bottoms was like, yep, I finished third. Which by the way, I won this first.

[Tim Bontemps]

If you go through. Well, yes, I did. What's not really a debate. It hasn't been a debate for a while. The if, I mean, I will say if you go through your picks, Wolves, Knicks, Cavs, Magic, Pacers, Kings, Hawks, Spurs, Blazers, Pistons. It's pretty good to have. Well, I guess the pistons were under 40 or the Blazers are under 42. It's pretty good to have eight teams of 40 or more wins and all 10 with at least 34. Well, that's how you win.

[Brian Windhorst]

I, I probably pick the Pistons under duress. I probably said three sentences about them. If that.

[Tim McMahon]

So JB doesn't get your Coach of the Year vote after winning the wins pool? I don't know.

[Brian Windhorst]

Well, there was no skin in that game. That was a friendly game. But there was skin in the game for you, McMahon.

[Tim McMahon]

All right, listen here. I, I've informed you guys of the, of the, the clause that was in the fine print about Wimby had to play a minimum of 50 games. What was it? Spurs over 35 and a half was the bet. That was they land at 34. But the bet was void because of Wimby's minimum games cost. Now, sure, I, I, I am well known to be one of the nicest guys in the media business. Yes, you are well known. Everybody could agree with that.

[Tim Bontemps]

Everybody.

[Tim McMahon]

And so everybody can agree. Listen, plus I give Bond Tims a hard time. I want to make this right. So what I'm willing to say is if I sell enough copies of the Wonder Boy, Luka Doncic and the Curse of Greatness. Here, here, here. If I sell enough copies of this thing and I'm collecting royalties past the advance, I'll use the first royalties check to take Bon Temps out to a dinner at. We can go back. You want to come down to Nick and Sam's in Dallas? I'm just glad we got to the.

[Tim Bontemps]

Point where I won the bet.

[Tim McMahon]

Listen, GA is still on the menu. A 77 ounce steak will always, always, always be on the menu. My man Sam has, has guaranteed that.

[Tim Bontemps]

Here's, here's all I'm going to say.

[Tim McMahon]

About this royalty check.

[Tim Bontemps]

Here's what I'm going to say about this bet. This began, this began in the fall when man started wilding out about the spurs saying they're going to go over 500. They're going to do this. They're going to do that. And I said hey, all right. But you really believe in the spurs are going to be over.500. They're going to be in the playoffs mix. Let's make a bet that they're going to win more than half their games. And this guy was Usain Bolt running away from that all season ever since. So the fact that I still won after he dropped his Patriots, I will, I will happily take the the win.

[Brian Windhorst]

All right. Well, Chris Paul was trying to make it happen for you, McMahon. He played in all 82 games.

[Tim Bontemps]

By the way, shout out to Chris Paul near 20 playing all 82 games. God bless, man. That was awesome.

[Tim McMahon]

That is. That honestly is an absolutely amazing feat. I don't know basketball Chris Paul has left but to do that in year 20 is just, you know, another incredible accomplishment in all fame career.

[Tim Bontemps]

Yeah. Unbelievable.

[Brian Windhorst]

McMahon, you are off to Sacramento to see Sacramento and the Mavericks play in the play in on Wednesday. Then you're going where a big fat tbd.

[Tim McMahon]

I got a one way ticket. I anticipate that I'll be back in Memphis. We'll actually stick around for the game. If that's the case on Friday night, if the mighty Mavs manage to make it through and the warriors slip, I'll just slide right on over to the Bay. And if it's Kings warriors, well, we'll know by the time this comes out, we'll know. We'll at least know where it is. So either Memphis or Golden State perhaps might be able to come home if it's little Kings warriors action.

[Brian Windhorst]

When Bontemps was living in San Francisco, he would drive back and forth and you know, I don't know if you know this, but Bon Temps has a little bit of a lead foot. I think after a Kings game. He got me from Sacramento to San Francisco in like an hour and five minutes.

[Tim McMahon]

He drives like he talks, huh? No regard for anybody else.

[Tim Bontemps]

Actually, it's not actually how this trip went, but it's always been apocryphally turned into I drove a thousand miles an hour.

[Tim McMahon]

What was it turned into apocryphally? It's a big word.

[Brian Windhorst]

All I know is is that like my butt wasn't even warm in the seat and we were about to go over the Bay Bridge. I was like, everybody was, everybody was.

[Tim Bontemps]

Having a nice time hanging out. And the time, time flew. Jason Lloyd and Joe Varden and me and Brian driving back from Cavs, Kings back.

[Tim McMahon]

Nobody was having a good time. If Jason Lloyd and Joe Varda were in the car, I Can assure you of that.

[Tim Bontemps]

Back in the back. Headed for. I believe that was Cavs Warriors MLK Day.

[Tim McMahon]

Where was Mac 10? There was only two of the three amigos.

[Tim Bontemps]

I don't think Mac 10 was. I don't think Mac 10 WAS present in the car. I think it was me, Joe and Brian.

[Brian Windhorst]

He doesn't hang out with us. All right.

[Tim Bontemps]

He was probably flying to get segments.

[Brian Windhorst]

You're probably right. He probably flew from Sacramento to San Francisco via satellite.

[Tim McMahon]

As will I, if need be. Yeah.

[Brian Windhorst]

All right. Bontemps will be at the Knicks opener over the weekend. Is that on Saturday?

[Tim Bontemps]

Saturday at 6. I think the game before the, the one game we'll recognize on Saturday, Lakers Wolves at 8:30.

[Brian Windhorst]

I'm headed to Cleveland for the start of whoever they play on Sunday, baby.

[Tim Bontemps]

Cavs quarter. It's here.

[Brian Windhorst]

I haven't been to a. I haven't been to a Cavs playoff game since 2018. So it's been a while.

[Tim McMahon]

Returning the king.

[Tim Bontemps]

Several.

[Brian Windhorst]

I know you're. You've been like, I. I haven't been to a Cavs game this year. You've been to like nine. All right, thank you very much. By the way, while you're promising royalties, that book, that book came out in 2017. Actually, 2016.

[Tim Bontemps]

Why do you think he's promising royalties?

[Brian Windhorst]

Are you telling the listeners this 2017.

[Tim Bontemps]

Fake, his fake attempt to made the.

[Brian Windhorst]

New York Times bestseller list. Thank you for all the people who bought it. It continues to sell and I have not made any money past the advance. So, you know, dance was big old fat. Yeah. Yeah. Well, you did fine, too. All right. Thank you for watching who Collector. Thank you to Jackson, who played Hurt through this podcast. Our producer, Jackson Agello. Thank you to McMahon. Thank you to Bon Temps. Thank you for watching, listening. We'll talk to you later this week.

[Tim McMahon]

Adios, amigos. And by the books.

[Brian Windhorst]

It.