Reaction to Blockbuster NBA Trades: Harden To Cleveland, Jaren Jackson Jr. To Utah & More!

Summary

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Brian Windhorst & The Hoop Collective – Episode Summary

Episode Title: Reaction to Blockbuster NBA Trades: Harden To Cleveland, Jaren Jackson Jr. To Utah & More!
Release Date: February 4, 2026
Hosts: Brian Windhorst, Tim Bontemps, Tim MacMahon (aka McMahon)
Network: ESPN, Omaha Productions

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Episode Overview

This action-packed episode covers a flurry of blockbuster NBA trades just ahead of the 2026 trade deadline. The panel dissects headline-grabbing deals—namely James Harden’s surprise move to the Cleveland Cavaliers, Jaren Jackson Jr.’s trade to the Utah Jazz, and a trio of other significant trades involving teams like the Bulls, Pistons, Celtics, and Timberwolves. The hosts provide insider context, dive into strategic implications, and give candid takes on motivations, roster fits, and front office philosophies.

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Key Discussion Points & Insights

1. James Harden Traded to the Cleveland Cavaliers

[02:11-21:24]

• Trade Details: James Harden traded from the LA Clippers to Cleveland for Darius Garland.
• Surprise Factor: The panel expresses shock at the deal's occurrence and timing.
  • Windhorst: “If we had told anybody in October, much less last week, that James Harden would be a Cav, it would have been pretty surprising.” (02:20)
• Cavs' Motivation: Cleveland is “all in” on winning now, especially to keep Donovan Mitchell content and ideally re-sign him for the long term.
  • Bontemps: “The Cavs are all in on keeping Donovan Mitchell. This is what we’ve been talking about for over a week.” (04:14)
• Fit/Style Discussion:
  • Awkward age and style fit: Harden (older, ball-dominant) vs Garland (younger, more injury-prone).
  • Harden’s reputation as a “basketball mercenary” and evolving into a more pronounced playmaker rather than being a pure scorer.
  • MacMahon: “He is much more table setter now than the… generational scorer that he was at his peak in Houston.” (07:04)
  • On defense, Harden is a size upgrade but not a defensive stopper.
• Contract and Leverage:
  • Complicated contract structure: Harden’s unique two-year deal with player option and only a portion guaranteed for year two meant he had de facto trade veto power and a trade kicker.
  • Harden waived both rights—but only after securing some promise from the Cavs for his future.
  • Windhorst: “He was not going to do that for free.” (11:07)
• Clippers’ Perspective:
  • Mutual contract uncertainty led to this parting; the Clippers took Garland as a younger, high-upside but risky piece.
  • Winners may actually include the Oklahoma City Thunder (who own Clippers’ future picks).
  • Bontemps: “I don’t think the Clippers are better after making this trade… and I think it increases the chances of the Thunder getting a pick back in the lottery…” (17:38)
• Harden’s Response:
  • Harden, in a concurrent Ramona Shelburne interview, denied making a trade request, but the panel dismisses this as semantics given his history of “taking his ball and going home.”
  • Windhorst’s paraphrase of Harden: “Maybe we outgrew each other, whatever the case may be.” (20:24)
  • MacMahon: “James Harden is a basketball mercenary. And a businessman. That's what he is.” (21:05)

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2. Jaren Jackson Jr. Traded to the Utah Jazz

[25:08-35:58]

• Trade Details: Utah Jazz send three first-round picks plus young players to Memphis for Jaren Jackson Jr.
• Utah's Motivation:
  • The Jazz, traditionally out of free agent contention, use their asset stockpile and cap space to land a young, long-term, All-Star-caliber big man.
  • MacMahon: “This is about pre-agency for the Jazz who came in in stealth mode… Not a single person I think asked, are the Jazz buyers at the deadline?” (26:00)
  • Fit alongside Keonte George, Walker Kessler, and Lauri Markkanen is praised—especially in a Western Conference loaded with size.
  • Bontemps: “I really like the fit in Utah… Will Hardy, having those guys… is going to be fun to watch.” (27:29)
• Pick Protections/Strategy:
  • The Jazz are currently positioned to keep their own pick if they stay in the lottery’s top six, and the hosts expect “creative” resting of Jackson and Markkanen to keep the pick.
  • Windhorst: “How are we going to have Jaren Jackson and Lauri Markkanen miss all these games?” (30:16)
  • MacMahon (joking): “Jaren yet to have his physical maybe. I don’t know.” (30:25)
• Future Outlook:
  • Utah’s young core (George, Markkanen, JJJ, Kessler, Ace Bailey) could be formidable if they land another high pick.
  • Bontemps: “If they can get in the top three… there is no ceiling. If it clicks right, that could be an incredible team.” (34:31)
  • Ongoing Walker Kessler extension/retention will be a storyline this summer.
• Memphis Rebuild:
  • Grizzlies, now with 12 first-round picks in 7 years and a massive trade exception, are officially in asset-accumulation mode.

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3. Chicago Bulls, Detroit Pistons, Minnesota Timberwolves, and Boston Celtics Trades

[39:13-55:37]

Detroit, Chicago & Minnesota Three-Team Trade

• Pistons: Receive Kevin Huerter for shooting, move Jaden Ivey to Chicago, and improve draft position via a pick swap with Minnesota.
  • Windhorst: “Herder a role player. They obviously could still do something bigger after the season.” (39:13)
• Bulls:
  • Get Ivey (possible long-term investment), and later Anthony Simons from Boston, in a flurry of moves focused on collecting young guard talent and second-round picks.
  • Bontemps: “I don’t really know what the Bulls’ plan is… They have all this expiring money and they’ve maneuvered it around some. But what is the vision for the roster?” (43:13)
  • Uncertain if this is a true rebuild or just shuffling deck chairs until decisions are made post-deadline.
• Celtics:
  • Acquire Nikola Vucevic for size and luxury tax savings; send out Simons and a valuable second-round pick.
  • Brad Stevens’ personnel track record is praised; Vucevic seen as a low-stakes fit.
• Timberwolves:
  • Headline from their press release: “Timberwolves acquire cash considerations.” (50:24)
  • Tangibly, Minnesota offloads Mike Conley’s expiring salary to save money and downgrades their pick position.
  • The panel is highly critical, pending further moves:
    • Bontemps: “That is not something you typically see for a team that's coming off back-to-back conference finals appearances.” (50:31)
  • MacMahon and Bontemps both highlight the poor message sent to Anthony Edwards and Chris Finch if no further upgrades are made.

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Additional Notable Quotes & Moments

• On Cleveland’s urgency:
  Bontemps: "If the Cavs are able to… get Donovan Mitchell to extend… they’re going to be feeling like they had a successful six months and that’s why they did this deal." (06:18)

• On Harden’s repeated departures:
  Bontemps: “James Harden has done the same thing several different times in his career when he's basically taken his ball and gone home, when he hasn't gotten the contract he wants.” (11:25)

• On Utah’s 'creative' tanking:
  Bontemps: “The Jazz are going to try to keep this pick. It's going to be hard.” (31:01)

• On Bulls’ existence in NBA purgatory:
  Windhorst: “All roads lead to 39.” (45:10)
  MacMahon: “Maybe this is the Bulls finally realizing we are stuck in purgatory. It is a bad place to be.” (45:55)

• On Timberwolves’ financial priorities:
  Bontemps: “Minnesota Timberwolves traded out Mike Conley, traded a first round pick swap… to save a boatload of money. That is not something you typically see for a team that’s coming off back-to-back conference finals appearances.” (50:24)

• On waiting for post-deadline judgments:
  Windhorst: “Be careful grading a team’s trade deadline season on Tuesday.” (51:31)

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Important Timestamps

• James Harden trade deep-dive: 02:11 – 21:24
• Jaren Jackson, Jr. to Jazz: 25:08 – 35:58
• Chicago/Detroit/Minnesota/Boston Trades: 39:13 – 55:37

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Tone & Final Thoughts

The episode blends expertise, insider reporting, and conversational banter. The hosts debate the strategic logic, risk, and precedents of multiple trades—sometimes with skepticism (“basketball mercenary”), sometimes admiring shrewd front office work (“pre-agency”), and frequently warning that more dominoes may fall as the deadline approaches.

This summary captures all rich context, strategic reasoning, and memorable debate, delivering a complete recap for any NBA fan—no NBA TV or ESPN subscription required.

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Transcript

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Foreign.

[Brian Windhorst]

Welcome to the Hoop Collective podcast. We talk about the NBA which we're doing on Tuesday evening. Joining us from New York City where he attended the Lakers at Nets game on Tuesday night, Tim Bontemps. Did LeBron talk about all his great memories at Barclays Center? Possible last game next?

[Tim Bontemps]

I doubt it. I doubt, I doubt that he did. I doubt it was quite the same celebration as Sunday night. I just wish people could get access to our outtakes for our technological snafus on the pod. It would be, we could be, we could be very profitable on a side business of just showing people the behind the scenes tonight.

[Brian Windhorst]

I locked myself out of the studio here in LA and our next gentleman can't make his AirPods work, despite all the King's horses and all the King's men. Joining us from the American Airlines center in Dallas, Texas, where he saw the Boston Celtics beat the Dallas Mavericks tonight is Bam McMahon.

[Bam McMahon]

Howdy Partners. Saw Cooper Flag score 36, 119 over the last three.

[Brian Windhorst]

This guy. Hey, listen, listen. I don't know why Jason Kidd's so angry. I don't know why anybody.

[Bam McMahon]

It ain't because of Cooper Flag. I can tell you that.

[Brian Windhorst]

You guys are just fine. Just, just everything in Dallas is going to be okay.

[Bam McMahon]

Well, I would say they've got the hardest part done and that's getting a dude to build around this part of the plan, baby. This one will be, this one will be here for a while. They've got a lot to figure out around him. But anyways, let's talk about the deals that have happened already. Yes, we've got something to talk about.

[Brian Windhorst]

We did. We had, we had an action packed Tuesday in the NBA. First up, little action in Cavs corner and got a new Cav in Cavs corner. James Harden comes to Cleveland in a trade for Darius Garland, which rates as a quite unexpected swap. If we had told anybody in October, much less last week, that James Harden would be a Cav, it would have been pretty surprising. It is a sort of a, kind of an outrageous turn in the way the Cavs have been operating they have their reasons. We won't know. It's kind of fascinating. The Cavs play the Clippers on Wednesday night here in la, and then they go up to Sacramento and play the Kings. So the guys they just got from the Kings will play their first game on Wednesday get to play in their return game. So the return games happen. I would be highly surprised if James Harden plays against the Clippers on Wednesday night, but we'll see. That's something totally different.

[Bam McMahon]

You think he's going to duck the wall? Is that what you're saying?

[Brian Windhorst]

Well, Darius Garland can't play because he's still coming back from a toe injury, so he won't play for the Clippers. This is an awkward trade because James Harden coming in with the Cavs, it's just the way he plays is not the way they have played yet. Bontemps. I understand why the Cavs talk themselves into it. Harden is a better player than Darius Garland. He's 10 years older and in two years, I'm not sure you can say the same thing, but he is a better player and he's been a more reliable player. Whatever you want to say about Harden, he plays. He plays in games when he's not setting them out due to trade requests. And the Cavs are. I think the big thing that you can take away from this is the Cavs are all in on 2026.

[Tim Bontemps]

The Cavs are all in on keeping Donovan Mitchell. This is what we've been talking about for over a week. The Cavs know they have to be good this year to give themselves the best chance of getting Donovan Mitchell the best player. How many players in Cavs this year been better than LeBron James are better than Donovan Mitchell, but LeBron James?

[Bam McMahon]

Yeah, none. None better than Braun and Mark Price, maybe.

[Tim Bontemps]

Like in all seriousness, what's the list of players?

[Bam McMahon]

I think Donovan's the second most talented player in franchise history. Wendy, would you disagree?

[Brian Windhorst]

Donovan Mitchell. Here's how I can put this. The last two years, last year and this year are the two best non LeBron seasons in Cavs history. Well, that's the best way I can put it.

[Tim Bontemps]

And that's why the Cavs for an individual player. Yeah, right. And that's why the Cavs are feverishly working to try to improve this team to make the kind of playoff run to that they can. Donovan Mitchell has not made out of second round of playoffs in his career. This has been a disappointing Cav season. They won 64 games last year before the disappointing loss to Indiana. They came into the season. I think in the consensus ahead of the Knicks as the favorites to win the East. At worst, they were co favorites and they've been in the bottom half of the east playoff picture all season. So that was not going to be good enough. And like you said, Brian, this is an awkward fit. This is. It's an. It's an awkward fit from an age range perspective. It's an awkward fit from James Harden dominating the ball because we know James Harden is going to come in and dominate the ball. Like it's going to make Donovan Mitchell's life easier in some ways. But James Harden plays the way James Harden plays. He's done it now for whatever, 13, 14, 15 years and he's going to have the ball in his hands a lot. But he is clearly a talent upgrade on Darius Garland, at least the current version of Darius Garland who has either been ineffective or injured this season. And for a Cavs team that has to win right now, it makes sense to swap out Darius Garland for James Harden for right now. And like you said, this is about 2026 and the 2026 playoffs and getting Donovan Mitchell to extend in the 2026 off season. And if the Cavs are able to do that between now and July, they're going to be feeling like they had a successful six months and that's why they did this deal and that's why we'll see if they do other stuff over the next couple of days to try to be as good as they can for this playoff run.

[Bam McMahon]

Yeah, a couple things I'll say about the fit. Number one, it was an awkward fit with Donovan Mitchell and Darius Garland just because it's really hard to win at the highest level.

[Brian Windhorst]

162 games.

[Bam McMahon]

I understand, but I'm saying be that awkward. It's really hard to win at the highest levels with two small guards. Right. And that's why there was.

[Brian Windhorst]

Yeah, but that's because they're taking advantage of defensively. I don't think James Harden's going to be stopping anybody.

[Bam McMahon]

Okay. And. But that's. I was going to mention that obviously this is a significant size upgrade. Typically, though, when you talk about the size upgrade, you are discussing the impact on the defensive end. Harden will rebound on that end. You know, not exactly a stopper. But in terms of offensive style of play, Harden style play, yes, he's still going to have the ball in his hands a lot, but he is much more table setter than, you know, he's much more of an elite table setter now than the. You know, generational scorer that he was at his peak in Houston and, you know, they'll stagger their minutes. Donovan's still going to probably be on the floor without harden for 12 to 15 minutes a game. Donovan's going to get plenty of shots and all that. I, I think they'll figure the style out without too much issue to me. I'm curious to see, look, why did, why did James Harden request a trade? Right.

[Brian Windhorst]

Well. Well, that's the second half of the conversation.

[Bam McMahon]

Right.

[Brian Windhorst]

Which we'll get to in one second.

[Bam McMahon]

Yeah, he's a basketball mercenary who, when it makes business sense for him to get out of town, he's going to get out of town. And so I am curious to see how this makes business sense for him. You know, how the Cavs make it make business sense for him.

[Brian Windhorst]

Well, yeah, that's the Cavs probably. I don't have the details yet, but the Cavs probably agreed to something financially. Probably. I don't know for sure, but we'll get to that in a second. I just want to talk a little bit more about this from the Cavs perspective. If you're wondering, like, how could this possibly come together. The thing about it is that the Cavs is a second apron team. They have a point guard that they want to change, slash upgrade from, and the guy makes $39 million. They couldn't combine him with anybody. They had to get a player they believe is an upgrade. Who they couldn't combine him with anybody who made slightly less money and there was like 300,000 less money. By the way, the pathway is extraordinarily narrow. You know, Bontemps and I talked about this. When the Cavs got struggling out of the gate, I started looking around for who could they trade Darius Garland for. And Bontemps, who did I cut? I, I mean, who did we come up with as an option two months ago who wasn't. Oh, you're not going to say I.

[Tim Bontemps]

Was going to let you do it.

[Brian Windhorst]

It was John Moran. You know, we were like, you know, would the Cavs do John Moran? Is that really an upgrade like that? We were, you know what, you know, I'm sure the Cavs went through, you know, who could we trade for? Was a very small list and one of the players on the list is.

[Tim Bontemps]

James Harden and so barely makes $300,000 less. So therefore it's a legal trade.

[Brian Windhorst]

We're like, okay, of the couple of players that they could make a deal with, that could be deemed as an upgrade to their point guard situation, you Had a guy like John Moran who makes the exact same amount of money and you had a guy like James Harden, there may have been a couple more. And so Harden, meanwhile, I'm going to pivot over to the Clippers here. Last summer, Harden signed a contract that is pretty unique. I wouldn't say it's unheard of, but it's pretty rare. He signed a two year contract. First year is guaranteed $39 million. The second year is $42 million, but only third and it's a player option. So it's James Harden's option to opt in. He could become a free agent or opt into that contract for next year. But of the 42 million, only 13 million is guaranteed. I wonder how they came up with that number. There had to have been some calculation where they decided it was 13 million.

[Bam McMahon]

Maybe a tribute to Paul George, his number for the Clippers.

[Brian Windhorst]

It probably had to do with something that the Clippers would have done to stay under some apron maneuver. So it was kind of a mutual option. And so Harden was having a very strong year, borderline All Star. And he was getting close to the deadline. And I don't exactly know how this went down. I may learn more in the coming days. Somebody may have a story that explains it. But he's getting to the point where he was running into the trade deadline and this was his time to have leverage because he was playing well and the Clippers were playing well. And at some point he had a.

[National University Announcer]

Discussion with the Clippers.

[Brian Windhorst]

What about that option? Are you going to pick it up? Am I going to get the full 42 million? Hey, what if I don't pick it up? Would you be willing to sign me to another contract? You know, another one plus one contract and whatever the Clippers said, Harden didn't like it. Clearly we know Harden didn't like it.

[Tim Bontemps]

Because I think we can extrapolate what the answer was very clearly. Because James Harden has done the same thing several different times in his career when he's basically taken his ball and gone home, when he hasn't gotten the contract he wants.

[Brian Windhorst]

And he's always gotten what he's wanted. Sometimes he's had to wait a little longer, sometimes he's had to go through some stress. Sometimes he didn't get the exact dollar amount he wanted or the exact place he wanted, but he got what he wanted now because his contract was structured that way. And I know that trade no trade clauses are complicated in the NBA, but there's only one player with a full no trade that is LeBron James. But if you have a one year contract in the NBA and you know you're coming off a contract with a team and then you sign another one year contract, if you get traded, you lose your Bird rights and that means that the team that you get traded to can't sign you for any amount of. And so that means you're penalized. So you get what is known as an implied no trade. You have the ability to say, no, you can't trade me. I don't want to lose my Bird rights. And so when James Harden entered into this situation, he had the ability to block any trade and he also had a 15% trade kicker, which means if he got traded, he would get a 15% bonus. There's a lot of these out there. But here's the problem. If that 15% had been triggered, he would have been over the allowed trade amount that the Cavs were allowed to trade for because of the second apron. So, okay, James Harden had to say yes to two things. He had to waive the trade veto and he had to waive the trade kicker. Okay. And he was not going to do that for free. No. All right. So he had to have some talks with the Cavs about what they are going to, what their intentions are, whether they agreed on next year, like picking up that option so his full 42 million is guaranteed, or they agreed that they would revisit his contract and maybe give him a new deal. I don't know, maybe I'll find out. But that was all part of it. And the Clippers, hey, won 17 out of 21 games. I think that they probably. I mean, I was at the game on. I was at the Clipper game on Monday night. When I went into the game, I knew that this Harden thing, all three of us knew. We knew that Harden had asked for a trade and we knew he was likely going to Cleveland and hadn't gotten.

[Bam McMahon]

You guys basically hinted at this without mentioning Harden on the last pod, but go on.

[Brian Windhorst]

Yeah, sometimes we can't say what we know and I've never seen. It's such a.

[Tim Bontemps]

We didn't know about it. We didn't know about it at that point though. We just thought the Cavs were going to do stuff this week. But by the time the game got here on Monday night, we knew it was.

[Brian Windhorst]

So I'm at the game and everybody around the court, like when I say around the court pre game, there's a bunch of agents and scouts and things there. Everybody knew Harden was ruled out due to personal reasons.

[Tim Bontemps]

After Being ruled out Sunday night for personal reasons. The whole league was aware of what was going on by then.

[Brian Windhorst]

I can't say that every player knew, but I talked to two players that knew, one on each team. Okay. It was. Not only did they know that Harden was getting traded, they knew he was likely getting, you know, he was likely getting traded to Cleveland. Okay.

[Tim Bontemps]

Yeah.

[Brian Windhorst]

So it was like this surreal thing. And the Clippers, now the Clippers won the second night of a back to back and sometimes you're sluggish, but the Clippers started out the game, they were playing the 76ers and they start out the game and they fall down 16 to 2. Okay. The Clippers were DOA in that game and the coaches on both sides knew all that stuff. Okay. So it's sort of this strange situation and that actually during the game it got reported. Chris Mannix from Yahoo reported it. And, and then it was a couple jobs ago.

[Tim Bontemps]

He's back at SI now just to, just to give Mannix his property.

[Brian Windhorst]

Apologize. Apologize.

[Tim Bontemps]

The vertical was a while. The vertical was a while ago.

[Brian Windhorst]

Mannix has like eight jobs.

[Bam McMahon]

Wendy doesn't like him as many jobs.

[Tim Bontemps]

It's easy to, it's easy to get.

[Bam McMahon]

Him confused when he doesn't like him because he's in competition for the best hair in the, in the business. Go on.

[Brian Windhorst]

Anyway, I filibustering here, but. So the Clippers, when they signed that contract, Pontemps knowing Harden's history and knowing that he doesn't like to have contract uncertainty while they were protecting themselves on a long term contract and protecting themselves if Harden got hurt or whatever, they had to know that they were at least leaving a door somewhat open for Harden to pressure them during the season. And that's what happened. And the difference here was I think they liked the exit route of their options. Again, Harden is only going to say yes to so many places and some places are going to want to, you know, deal with him. I think they, despite Garland having injury issues last couple years, I think they liked the exit route option here.

[Tim Bontemps]

Yeah, I mean, listen, when I first heard about this trade yesterday, I was surprised to hear it because it was an out of left field thing that we weren't anticipating. But I wasn't surprised that there was a contractual dispute with James Harden at a team. Right. So this going sideways with the Clippers is nodding to your point, Brian. From the moment they signed that contract last summer, you had to wonder, would he make it through the two years? How would it go? Would there at some point be a James Harden is unhappy with his contract. I lived through this in Philly. Tim lived through it in Houston.

[Bam McMahon]

I mean, Houston wasn't the contract.

[Tim Bontemps]

It was just team around him.

[Bam McMahon]

And same in Brooklyn. But then, yes, I mean, he is a basketball mercenary businessman. That's what he is.

[Tim Bontemps]

Correct. So, you know, again, I get why the Cavs did it. Skeptical on how it's going to work, but they have to get better this year. They have to try to improve this year. Trading, getting Keon Ellis, getting James Harden. I think they're better than they were a week ago. We'll see if they can get even better by Thursday afternoon. And I don't love the trade for the Clippers. I've got real concerns about Darius Garland's health going forward.

[Bam McMahon]

But.

[Tim Bontemps]

But if he can get this toe situation right and he can get back to playing the way he was last year, when you could argue he was even more impactful during the regular season than Donovan Mitchell was. For as great as Donovan Mitchell was, the numbers, Darius Garland, when he was on the court, their offense was absolutely insane last year. And he's got a chance. Like he's a very talented scoring guard. Like Ty Lew is familiar with him. Obviously there, you know, it's, it's an interesting bet for them to get a younger piece to try to grow with going forward. But I think the, the big winners out of this, to me were the Oklahoma City Thunder, who, you know, were. The Clippers were flying along, flying up the standings. They, they're now 17 and 5 in their last 22 games. Thinking, man, you know, Steph's got a knee issue. Portland struggling with health. Like Clippers got a good chance to make the playoffs. I don't think the Clippers are better after making this trade this year. And I think it increases the chances of the Thunder getting a pick back in the lottery that I wasn't sure they were going to get. And they also got a chance to.

[Brian Windhorst]

Get another lottery pick after the teams at the, the teams at the top of the tank a thon are losing so much. Oh, it won't be aggressive.

[Bam McMahon]

No, it won't be.

[Tim Bontemps]

They're going to end up with a pick in the top five. Yeah, I know, out of the record part, but they in the playoffs, I.

[Bam McMahon]

Think there's a chance that the biggest winner of this trade ends up being the Oklahoma City Thunder. And look, when they were 6 and 21, there was the widespread fear around the league that, oh my God, the Thunder are going to get delivered a top five pick. That's not obviously the fear, but it did look like the Clippers were destined to be a playoff team this year. Of the teams in the play in picture, the Clippers had been playing the best basketball for the rest of this season. Darius Garland is a, you know, it's a massive uncertainty. Like, we don't. When is he going to get healthy? How healthy is he going to be? You know, how's he going to fit in on the fly? And I agree with Bond Timps, as much as that pains me to say, I think this very likely means that OKC will get a late lottery pick.

[Tim Bontemps]

And they might get a second one.

[Brian Windhorst]

Kevin Pelton gave it a try to.

[Tim Bontemps]

Do a nice segue for you to our commercial break there, pal.

[Brian Windhorst]

I know, but what you don't know is Ramona Shelburne just published an interview with James Harden. He'll be somewhat out there by the time this podcast is up, but I want to read some of the things that he said.

[Tim Bontemps]

Okay.

[Brian Windhorst]

He denied making a trade request.

[Bam McMahon]

We can play semantics on that one. Okay, sure.

[Tim Bontemps]

Okay.

[Brian Windhorst]

In life, not just basketball, when things don't work out, there are ways to end things in relationships without having to crack each other. James Harden said, okay, maybe we don't just see a future with each other. Maybe we outgrew each other, whatever the case may be. And that's, that's why I can respect Steve L. Lawrence Frank and T. Lou Tai Lou, because they didn't put me in a weird position. As much as everybody tried to make it like that, I like James. He's a friend of the pod. He's been on the pod.

[Bam McMahon]

I mean, there's.

[Brian Windhorst]

I don't want. I didn't want it to feel like I was holding the Clippers up in their future. I wanted them to have a chance to rebuild and get some draft capital. I mean, they got us.

[Tim Bontemps]

This is, this is quite the, this is quite the.

[Bam McMahon]

Listen, man, James. As I said, James Harden is a basketball mercenary. It's. And a businessman. It's fine. I don't think this is.

[Tim Bontemps]

He got to LA doing the exact same thing out of Philadelphia and having it be.

[Brian Windhorst]

Yeah, well, that they, that they cracked each other there was cracking.

[Bam McMahon]

Well, he cracked Brooklyn pretty good too, now.

[Brian Windhorst]

Yeah.

[Bam McMahon]

You know, Houston felt somewhat, you know, Houston was very disappointed when he asked out, when he forced his way out. But over the long term, because of the path that Houston took, the Rockets ended up benefiting from that trade. Long term, given that the hard narrow was like they weren't going to win anything with, you know, yes, it had come and gone.

[Tim Bontemps]

And by the way, the the, the the Sixers also made out decently in the trade that they made for James Harden in terms of both coming in getting rid of Ben Simmons and going out getting the draft capital they got coming back. They got an protected pick in 28 and they got a they got top three protected swap in 29. Those don't look too bad.

[Bam McMahon]

The team that really got screwed by acquiring James Harden was the Brooklyn Nets because of what they gave up with all the picks and then what they took back when they traded.

[Brian Windhorst]

Well, those, that three some Durant, Kyrie and Harden never really having a fair shake of. It was a real gigantic letdown that the Nets are still digging out of.

[Bam McMahon]

One of the biggest what ifs in NBA history. More Hoop Collective Podcast after this Access.

[Brian Windhorst]

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[Brian Windhorst]

Okay, we had another trade that this one was also surprising. There was some belief that Jaren Jackson would be available despite having four years and 200 million left on his contract after this season with the Grizzlies. The Grizzlies making their intentions with this roster relatively clear when they traded Desmond Bain back at the draft, put John Moran on the block and began taking calls for Jaren Jackson. There was a belief that Jaren might go after Ja, but they went ahead and made the deal first. And Utah, which has been hoarding picks and saving up cap space and doing a lot of losing, saw an opportunity and they went in on it. So they give three first round picks and the rest of it was, you know, young players, but mostly was just trade filler. But basically, you know, who knows, maybe Taylor Hendricks finds a new life in Memphis.

[Bam McMahon]

Walter Clayton Jr. You know, that's an interesting pickup for the Grizzlies. But yeah, this was about picks, picks, picks. And this is about pre agency for the Jazz who came in in stealth mode. And you know, everyone's asking are the Jazz sellers? Are they sellers?

[Tim Bontemps]

Are they sellers?

[Bam McMahon]

Not a single person I think asked are the Jazz going to be buyers at the deadline. But they came in and this obviously is a move that is about you're not getting free agents in Utah. Here's a chance to acquire a big time talent who's on a long term deal that they feel like fits with their core moving forward.

[Tim Bontemps]

And not only that, when you mentioned pre agency, they had a ton of cap space this summer and I think the important thing to note here is the improvement in the emergence of Keonte George as a career, as a real core piece going forward. But he's arguably he's definitely in the running for most improved player this year. He's taken a big leap and because of the growth he has shown this year, the one guy this summer who people were linking Utah to early on was Austin Reaves, who they in theory could have gone in and given a max offer to and said, hey, come, run our team, be our star ball handler and have as much usage as you want. But when Keonte George took off the way he did, it made it a lot less reasonable to make that kind of bet on Austin Reaves. So in a world where you have to spend the money, if you have it like you've got to get to the salary floor, you can't just have space. The Jazz only had limited options to really go with. And that's why to me, there are not many teams. I would have felt great about trading for Jaren Jackson Jr. With this contract going forward at $50 million a year the next four years for some of the deficiencies he has in his game. But I really like the fit in Utah and I really think this is about as good of a fit as you were going to find because they both have the salary cap flexibility to take on his money. Playing next to Walker Kessler, he's. He needs to be a power forward. He could play next to Lowry Markkanen sometimes. He could play next to Walker Kessler a lot. I love that fit. Will Hardy, having those guys, being able to be creative with them, doing different things with him and Larry Markkanen with the ball is going to be fun to watch. And in the Western Conference where we talk about Oklahoma City and you talk about San Antonio and you talk about Houston, the teams you have to beat are all big. Like getting size to try to compete in the west is critical. So I, I think the fit makes a lot of sense and it's going to be a really long couple of months to see if they can keep this top. A protected pick, which is not going to be easy. Jazz won by saying that.

[Brian Windhorst]

Well, that's as a quick.

[Tim Bontemps]

Jazz. Jazz are in sixth place in the lottery odds right now.

[Bam McMahon]

The J. Okay, hold on. You say the Jazz won. The Jazz beat the Fort Wayne Fire Ants or whatever.

[Tim Bontemps]

Okay, well, there's going to be a.

[Brian Windhorst]

Lot more of those games.

[Tim Bontemps]

Yes. Milwaukee Bucks beat half the Bulls today. They're not going to win many games.

[Bam McMahon]

I think it's the Nobles. Noblesville boom.

[Tim Bontemps]

Actually, real talk here.

[Brian Windhorst]

Real talk. Okay. As we sit here right now, Utah has 16 wins. Okay. They are. That is sixth, eighth or ninth or lower. They lose the pick. Okay, so also with six. Okay, so they have a three game lead on seventh but that's Dallas. How many more. Dallas has 19 wins. How many more games does Dallas win in McMahon?

[Bam McMahon]

Not a lot.

[Brian Windhorst]

Then Milwaukee. I don't know if Yanis play again. If we don't trade him. How many government games is Milwaukee winning?

[Bam McMahon]

If Giannis plays a second this season, that's an idiotic decision for. If he plays a second for the Bucks, that's an idiotic decision. They ain't winning very many more games.

[Brian Windhorst]

Well, Giannis is threatening to come back to try to get him to do. Of course, you know, I shouldn't say he's threatening. That'll be aggregated. Giannis wants to come back, which he wants the Bucs to know.

[Tim Bontemps]

The bottom line is it's just going to. I'm not.

[Bam McMahon]

And the Grizzlies are full speed.

[Brian Windhorst]

Hold on. Grizzlies. 19 wins. That's a tank.

[Bam McMahon]

Yeah, they are free falling.

[Brian Windhorst]

So three teams directly behind Utah ain't trying to win.

[Bam McMahon]

I'm just telling you. So I will be surprised if Utah doesn't keep this pick. And I just.

[Brian Windhorst]

Okay, I agree.

[Bam McMahon]

So he has rest assured Tank note is still in full effect for the rest of this season.

[Brian Windhorst]

Okay. Okay.

[Bam McMahon]

And after that it's. It's done.

[Brian Windhorst]

Cool. How are they going to. So they had Lowry Markkanen miss seven games with the flu recently. How are we going to have Jaren Jackson and Larry Markin and miss all these games?

[Bam McMahon]

I don't know. Jaren yet to have his physical maybe. I don't know.

[Tim Bontemps]

Listen, Trey Young showed up with six injuries in Washington, so who knows what's going to happen in Utah. But I mean, look, this is.

[Brian Windhorst]

That's true. Hey, listen, the, the, the league is looking at Trey Young. You know, he was playing games, he got traded and then, you know, I mean, look, I'm not even, I'm not even mad like, I'm not even like saying they shouldn't do it. I'm just saying.

[Bam McMahon]

Yeah, listen, look, clearly there's going to have to be some creative licen. But just, I'm just telling you, obviously.

[Tim Bontemps]

We all, we're all aware of what the Jazz are going to try to do. I'm just sitting here telling you it's going to be hard.

[Bam McMahon]

Right.

[Tim Bontemps]

I'm sure they're going to die, but it's going to be hard.

[Brian Windhorst]

The teams behind them ain't winning any more games.

[Tim Bontemps]

Yes, right.

[Bam McMahon]

All right. So listen, we all agree on that. I'll bet on them keeping that pick, but we'll see the fit moving forward to me is fascinating. The Jazz clearly feel strongly about their core now and their core Keontae George, Larry Markkanen, Jaren Jackson Jr. You can include Ace Bailey in that. And they are including Walter Kessler's number five pick. They're including Walker Kessler as part of that core. I'm just telling you the Walker Kessler restricted free agency is not going to be a fun, cozy experience. You know, they want to keep Walker Kessler. They have turned down picks, you know, or offers rather, for, you know, nice draft compensation over the last year or so for him. They see him as part of their core moving forward. They have a number in mind for Walker. Kessler and Walker and his representation have a much larger number in mind. He will be a restricted free agency, but it'll be very interesting to see if Walker can get the kind of offer that's going to put the Jazz to the test when they have now a front court that, you know, Markkanen and Jaren Jackson Jr are going to be making roughly 95 mil a year combined moving forward. And look, Chicago's going to need a big. The Lakers need a big. You know, Washington needs a big. You know, I don't think Charlotte teams.

[Brian Windhorst]

Cap space. Teams with cap space.

[Tim Bontemps]

Right.

[Bam McMahon]

I don't think Charlotte does. I think Charlotte's found a nice little tag team tandem, but, you know, we'll see. I don't know. Yeah. Moose and Kogbrenner, but, you know, theoretically they could be. And it just takes one. So again, the Jazz very firmly will tell you that Walker Kessler is part of their core moving forward. I'm just going to warn that we need to see how the summer plays out before we're certain.

[Tim Bontemps]

It's like. It's like the path to keep their pick is going to be a little fraught. The path to keeping Walker might be a little fraught, but I think there's a good chance to keep the pick and I think there's a good chance to keep Walker. I know they want to. And you know, it's restricted free agency for a reason. Like.

[Bam McMahon]

Right.

[Tim Bontemps]

I suspect he'll be on the team now.

[Bam McMahon]

If they have.

[Brian Windhorst]

I'll just say that if they have.

[Bam McMahon]

Him play next to Jaren Jackson Jr literally, the worst defense statistically in NBA history now will have two of the top, I don't know, five, six rim protectors in the league. It's a pretty good way to clean up your defensive issues.

[Brian Windhorst]

And when Markkanen started playing for three in Cleveland, it helped turn his career around.

[Bam McMahon]

Yeah.

[Brian Windhorst]

And.

[Bam McMahon]

And by the way, Jared Jackson Jr. Has some real perimeter elements to his offensive. Like the offense between those two is not going to be an issue.

[Tim Bontemps]

And Will Hardy is one of the most creative offensive coaches in the league. Obviously he's a friend of the pod too, but like, he's gonna. I'm excited for him to mix and match with Jaren and, and Lowry and I mean, you can have those guys.

[Brian Windhorst]

It's an identity, like you said before, it's an identity that they got of the challenges that. But their ceiling is probably going to be determined by where this pick falls. Because if they can get in the top three, like now you got something.

[Tim Bontemps]

That you think they get Darren Peterson, they get Darren Peterson and they could put Darren Peterson with Keonte George in the backcourt with these other guys, like just. There is no ceiling. If it clicks right like that, that could be an incredible team. But even if they end up with the fifth pick or the sixth pick or the seventh pick and they get, you know, the Fleming's kid from Houston or they get Mikhail Brown from Louisville or they get, you know, Cameron Boozer or whoever they get, like, if they add another high level piece to what they've got now, like, they're gonna be awfully fun for a long time. And that's the other thing. Like Jaren's gonna. Jaren's 26, Walker's in his early 20s, Chianti George is young, obviously. Ace Bailey is still a kid. Larry's 28 or 29. Like, this is a group that's got several years of Runway in it. It's not like this. They, you know, they made all the, they traded these picks and they're all in. And by the way, they're still plus two or three picks going forward because they had a lot of picks. And frankly, go back to last year. Just real quick, the Phoenix Suns made this, in my opinion, ridiculous trade to get three bad picks and give up one future unprotected pick. Getting that future unprotected pick is why this trade happened. Because they had that 2031 unprotected Suns pick and the Jazz could go to the Grizzlies and give them two mediocre picks, I would say, in next year's draft. But they could give him one really premium future pick and that was enough to get Jaren Jackson to Salt Lake City.

[Bam McMahon]

Yeah, and, and in saying that, listen, they gave up. This is pretty significant pick compensation, you know, in a league where, you know, like Anthony Davis, if the, if the Mavericks can get a pick for Anthony Davis, that would be, you know, probably considered good business if it's, if it's expiring as an A pick. Just, just as an example there. And you know, Justin Zanuck set it on the record last year when they made that deal to get that Phoenix pick. He said that was the most valuable pick that was moved in the trade market before last year's deadline. Now, the Jazz hope that the pick they gave up of their own next year is not a lottery pick. You know, they hope that they are a playoff team next year. The Lakers pick is unlikely to be a lottery pick and it's also not supposed to be a great draft. Not that any of us know anything other than what people tell us on the draft. But you know, the pick they Gave up, the 2031 Suns pick, is perceived to be a pretty juicy pick. Having said that, in defense of the Suns, when Memphis made their last mega pick trade, when they got Desmond Bain, they thought the sweetest asset they got in that deal was the Sun's pick this year. And turns out with all the swaps and sets, they're probably not even going to get that pick anyway.

[Brian Windhorst]

Yeah, and we'll see what Memphis gets with, you know, Memphis can do the same thing. Memphis now is 12, first in the next seven years. Maybe they can collect, you know, bundle them together and trade up.

[Tim Bontemps]

Well, that could happen.

[Bam McMahon]

And I bet you they've got more soon because they got picks in this. They got basically salary filler, but they got a $28.8 million trade exception. So the Memphis Grizzes are wide open for businesses facilitators. Bulls have made several more Hoop Collective podcast after this.

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[Brian Windhorst]

Trades in the last few days. Made two of them on Tuesday. One was a three team trade with Minnesota and Detroit starting with the Pistons. There the Pistons pick up Kevin Herder to add some shooting to their team. That is something that they have needed to do. Herder a role player. You know they obviously could still do something bigger. They still could do something bigger after the season, but that was Detroit addressing what they felt was a need and also giving up on first round draft pick from a couple of years ago, Jaden Ivey. He gets sent to Chicago last year of his contract will be a restricted free agent. This also is pre agency as the man mentioned earlier. This is a move that Chicago did recently with Josh Giddey where they traded for a player knowing that they would likely invest in him long term. So we'll see what happens there. And then Minnesota got off of Mike Conley in the deal and did a swap with Detroit. So Detroit not only gets Kevin Herter in the deal, Detroit's likely to have the 29th or 30th pick in this upcoming draft. They swapped their pick with Minnesota. Who knows where Minnesota will be. Maybe they're 20, maybe they're 24, maybe they're 18, I don't know. But Detroit's going to move up and so decent piece of business for Detroit. Although they're moving off of Ivy. Of course they've had already decided that extended last fall. So to me this is really about Chicago invest in sort of making a pickup about their future with guards of their guards because they have Kobe White and IO Dusamu bond temps and both of those guys are after the season and going sumo.

[Tim Bontemps]

I know I botched them.

[Bam McMahon]

I go first name only in some of these cases. Go on.

[Brian Windhorst]

Anyway, it seems like they've made a decision that they want to invest in Ivy and it leaves those two guys. Maybe by the time this pod comes out one or both of them will be moved off of. But Chicago, they also made another trade with Boston which we'll talk about in a minute. But I want to get your feelings on this. Bontemps.

[Tim Bontemps]

Well I think we kind of need to put them together because in the other deal they swapped Anthony Simons to. They got Anthony Simons from the Celtics, sent out Nick Vucevich. They swapped second round picks. They got probably the Pelicans second round pick in next year's draft, which is a good second.

[Brian Windhorst]

Well, you've sort of done your classic warp speed. I like to slow down.

[Tim Bontemps]

I mean, if you want to walk through it, then we could. I think we need to talk about them together for a reason.

[Brian Windhorst]

Okay.

[Bam McMahon]

So I like when you guys fight.

[National University Announcer]

All right.

[Brian Windhorst]

Okay. So they also traded for Anthony Simons. Simons is having a very good last six weeks with the Celtics. But the Celtics had been looking for size for a while. They get Nikola Vukovic. Both of those guys are in the last year of their contracts. The Celtics saved significant amount of luxury tax dollars in that trade. So they tossed in a second round pick that is likely to be the Kings second round pick and swapped it with the bul. I'm sorry, not the Kings, the Pelicans.

[Bam McMahon]

Pelicans. That is a juicy second rounder pick.

[Brian Windhorst]

31 through 34 ish. And so that is a nice pickup for Chicago. Chicago is not known for getting picks in trades and they've actually gotten a couple of picks this week. And the trade that they picked up, Dario Sarchin, who they moved on to Detroit as part of this deal. They picked up three second round picks in this last week and one of them is a pretty good one. Simon's on the last year of his contract. They now have four guards that they've acquired. They've got four guards that are all free agents because Simons and Ivey, they're not keeping all four of them. So the question is, which are they trading? In theory, Bontemps, they could retrade Simons. Simons is a player who could go elsewhere. That's a player who could get moved again. If the Bulls keep them, they would have to consider whether they want to pay him as well as Ivy.

[Tim Bontemps]

Yeah. And I, I would say in sum total, we've got another whatever day and a half until the trade deadline has passed. But as we sit here right now, I don't really know what the Bull's plan is. Like they have all this expiring money and they've maneuvered it around some. And yes, they've gotten some seconds, which is a nice change from not getting any picks as they typically have in the past. But like, what is the vision for the roster? Like they have, they have Josh Giddey, who they signed last summer. He's clearly going to be their point guard going forward and they've got modest Pizzealous on the wing. Their first round pick in last year's draft. Clearly he's a guy they're invested in as a core piece going forward. But you mentioned they made this Jaden Ivy trade. He's you know, obviously had a ton of injury issues and has been up and down. We'll see what his contractual situation is going to be. You know, they have Kobe, White and I'll justumu two guys that they could have traded the last couple of years and gotten I think pretty significant returns for as cheap quality guards on low cost contracts that are now on the verge of expiring when they're going to get raises. And if they trade them this week, I don't think they're going to get massive return for either of those guys. If they don't trade them this week then you're in a situation where, okay, now you have Ivy on your books as an RFA and you have those two guys as unrestricted free agents. Are you keeping all of them or you're some of those guys walking as free agents this summer. And like getting a second round pick for Vucevich is fine but they, they don't really have any answers in the front court either. So they have a ton of cap space this summer but it's just kind of hard to see what direction they're going in. And also if they don't trade for a big now we talked about all these other teams that are going to start losing. You've been saying every road for the Bulls gets back to 39 and 43.

[Brian Windhorst]

This would seem to be an indication correctly. All roads lead to 39.

[Bam McMahon]

He's just got, he's got no feel for. He's got no rhythm. He's got no swag.

[Brian Windhorst]

If I don't have swag either.

[Tim Bontemps]

If they don't, if they don't get.

[Bam McMahon]

Those fingers will fly if they don't.

[Tim Bontemps]

Get a, if they don't get some sort of big in back on the roster to replace Nick Vucevich. They're going to seemingly try to start losing now when they're already one too many games to even tank.

[Bam McMahon]

Really, when is the best time there's.

[Brian Windhorst]

Zero chance of the Bulls tanking. They are. I agree. I just locked in the 39 baby.

[Bam McMahon]

What you're saying and this is not an aspiration joke, when's the best time to plant a tree last year? Well, when's the best time to commit to really rebuilding?

[Brian Windhorst]

In the Bulls case two years ago.

[Bam McMahon]

But sure, last year. But when's the second best time now? So maybe. Maybe this is the Bulls finally realizing we are stuck in purgatory. It is a bad place to be. We're tired of being in purgatory. Let's commit to a real youth movement, rebuild. Let's give them the benefit of the doubt and say maybe they're doing something logical here. Maybe. I don't know.

[Brian Windhorst]

I don't know. Like, it depends on what they pay Jaden Ivey and if they keep Simons, if they pay him, that's.

[Bam McMahon]

I'm. The benefit of the doubt.

[Tim Bontemps]

I'll give them the benefit of the doubt for the next day and a half and see where they're at after the trade deadline. Maybe this will look a lot different if, like, to your point, Brian, if they go out and use Simons and use some of these other expirings to take back some money to take in assets, if they end up with a couple first side of deal, like, if they do stuff like that, like, okay, then you could look at it and say, all right, they're. They're like, pointed in a direction, but if they just kind of cycle through expiring contract for expiring contract and end up with a couple seconds and a roster with nine guards on it, I. I just won't really know. I don't really know if we'll have a good sense of what the plan is then.

[Bam McMahon]

Well, and the other thing, in the. In the trade with Boston, they did take back. How much more million is it? It's a. It's a fair six, which said the Celtics slashed a ton. Like, the Celtics, Bobby had the graphic. They've gone from, like, including luxury tax, like a $540 million payroll to like, 210 in a matter of however many months.

[Brian Windhorst]

And they're still in third place.

[Bam McMahon]

And they're still in third place. And Tatum obviously hasn't played a second. We'll see if he's. If he does return this year. If he does return this year. Like, hey, man, who knows? It was interesting. Peyton Pritchard came off the bench for the first time all season now scored like 29. Yeah. Scored 26, played 34, 35 minutes off the bench, had 26 and seven assists. Joe Mazzolo was asked, you know, hey, is that, like, going to be his role moving forward? And he. He didn't commit to that. But, you know, it's interesting. They lose Simon's punch off the bench and brought Peyton Pritchard, you know, into that six. Man Role for the first time all season long.

[Brian Windhorst]

He's a good six man.

[Bam McMahon]

You know the other interesting thing, obviously Aden Vuch is like, you know, gives you a stretch 5. Second best Luca in the league. Luca Garza. Tell you what, man, he was on tonight.

[Brian Windhorst]

Well, he had six threes.

[Bam McMahon]

Four threes.

[Brian Windhorst]

They're kind of having six of eight from the four.

[Tim Bontemps]

Four, four from three.

[Brian Windhorst]

Sorry, six, six of eight from the floor. They're kind of moving Vucevich into the role that, you know, he's not the defender Al Horford is, but kind of the Al Horford role there where he's a stretch big man. Whether he starts or he's going to, you know, play with limited minutes.

[Tim Bontemps]

I would guess he's coming off the bench. By Nemus.

[Brian Windhorst]

It is a. It is a good fit for the way the Celtics have demonstrated to play. And it's, you know, one thing I will say about the Celtics, I mean not one thing. You can say a lot of things. Brad Stevens front office has done a pretty good job in pro personnel in recent years bringing in guys from other teams.

[Tim Bontemps]

Yeah.

[Brian Windhorst]

That fit on their roster. Whether it's Drew Holiday, Chris A.P.S. porzingis, Derek Whiteford, Derrick White Garza, who has been doing great. Nemi Keda. Like they have a history of identifying guys and bringing them in. So you know, Simons has been good but like Brad Stevens has earned, has earned the belief inside a move like this and it's a low stakes move. They save money and, and, and Vucevich is, you know, expiring contract.

[Bam McMahon]

Simons was acquired to be traded like you know, the second they.

[Brian Windhorst]

True. But he was helping them win.

[Bam McMahon]

Sure.

[Brian Windhorst]

But I don't. That was something the second.

[Tim Bontemps]

That's why they turned him into shopping them. Yeah. And that's why they turned him into a player who can still help him win some more games. And I do think Kevin Herder is an upgrade on Jaden Ivey. So I like that for Detroit. Detroit also swapped picks in the first round this year with the Minnesota Timberwolves to move up a bunch of spots because now hold on, I'm just setting it up. I got a release from the Timberwolves about this three team trade.

[Brian Windhorst]

Let's talk about the Timberwolves. Bontemps. You have their release that they put out at the end of the day after the trade call became official.

[Tim Bontemps]

That's right. So three team trade with the Bulls and Pistons. McMahon. The headline on this release is an all timer.

[Bam McMahon]

Okay.

[Tim Bontemps]

Headline Timberwolves acquire cash considerations.

[Bam McMahon]

I like it.

[Tim Bontemps]

That's the headline. Minnesota Timberwolves traded out Mike Conley, traded a first round pick swap that's going to drop about 10 spots in the draft to save a boatload of money. That is not something you typically see for a team that's coming off back to back conference finals appearances. And I'm awfully curious to see if the Minnesota Timberwolves get better between now and Thursday afternoon because if all they do is either get out of the luxury tax or save a bunch of money. It's an interesting message you're sending to your team and to your superstar guard.

[Bam McMahon]

Well, and we do know that Tim Connolly swings big and he's trying to swing big right now. You know, this definitely gives him more flexibility.

[Brian Windhorst]

It does.

[Tim Bontemps]

Well, they just, they just, they just made their draft pick 10 picks worse to save the owners a ton of money. I don't really see what it did otherwise.

[Brian Windhorst]

Okay, I've been around a little bit and one of the things I've learned is be careful grading a team's trade deadline season on Tuesday.

[Bam McMahon]

That's what I'm saying. I, this could.

[Brian Windhorst]

So we'll, we'll wait.

[Bam McMahon]

This could be the first domino to a series of things. If they're going to make a big.

[Brian Windhorst]

Splash, that's all they are out there trying to acquire assets that they can offer to Milwaukee. You know, obviously we don't know everything that's going on with all the calls. We work all day long on getting information that people don't want us to have. You know, you hear about the Knicks being in the Giannis game. I've heard, I have personally heard not one thing about the Knicks trying to go out and get other assets to then offer to the Bucks. The Knicks don't have a young player, a high quality young player or any draft picks to offer. So Jamaican offer, they'd have to go out and improve it. I've heard nothing on the Knicks.

[Tim Bontemps]

So I do think, by the way, what are the Minnesota Timberwolves have to trade for Giannis?

[Brian Windhorst]

Well, but that's a fair, that's a fair point. But at least you got there. Hear them trying well and look it's.

[Bam McMahon]

It would, I don't know, never say never. I can't imagine it being a two team deal. But if you, if you throw in Jaden McDaniels and you, you know, you throw in, you know, Baron, you're going.

[Brian Windhorst]

To say a lot of ah ahs because they're not there.

[Tim Bontemps]

But forget about doing.

[Brian Windhorst]

The point is Minnesota is out there trying like we know, we hear about what Minnesota is trying to do, I don't think they're going to get it done, but they are trying.

[Tim Bontemps]

Well, Minnesota had better try to get some players and not end up at the trade deadline having just saved the owners a lot of money. Which is why I said let's see what happens over the next day and a half.

[Brian Windhorst]

Well, they have.

[Tim Bontemps]

The story of the Minnesota Timberwolves trade deadline is they sacrificed an asset or assets to save a ton of money and not make the team better when they don't have draft capital going forward. That is a very interesting message to send.

[Brian Windhorst]

Well, and if that's the way they spent a lot of money in luxury tax last couple of years, it's not like they have not spent. But it's Ryan, it's a tough look.

[Bam McMahon]

Listen, if that's the way it ends up, if this is just a save, the owners who had to like search through couch cushions to find enough change to actually purchase the team, if it's about saving them money and that's what this trade deadline's about, you're right. That is a really bad look. That's going to be a really hard thing I would imagine to explain to Anthony Edwards, frankly. That's going to be a really hard thing I would think to explain to Chris Finch. I think it would be a really hard thing for Tim Connolly, the guy making all the moves to swallow, you know, that, that, that would.

[Tim Bontemps]

And look, maybe they will come up with Giannis or they will come up with something else and they will get a lot better. I'm not ruling it out.

[Brian Windhorst]

This is a Thursday.

[Bam McMahon]

Yeah.

[Brian Windhorst]

This is a post trade deadline conversation. I just don't want to go there yet.

[Tim Bontemps]

Right.

[Brian Windhorst]

But maybe we'll be talking about this on Thursday.

[Tim Bontemps]

It's a fascinating trade to see a team that's made back to back conference finals being a three team trade and you have to look at the trade three times to make sure you're not missing that they're not getting something in the trade.

[Bam McMahon]

Well, and the unfortunate thing here is, you know, Mike Conley's this might be it for him. Like this might be his final season and he's just no longer physically capable of helping a contender. And so, you know, it's not like they dumped the salary of a guy who is still like he's not the Mike Conley even of last year. He's not. Just not close to that being that by the way.

[Tim Bontemps]

But, but again to my point though, he's on an expiring contract. If they were willing to offer a pick swap. You don't think they could have gotten somebody that could help them? Well, maybe they couldn't.

[Brian Windhorst]

They.

[Bam McMahon]

And listen.

[Brian Windhorst]

Yeah, they. They gave up a draft asset tonight to save money.

[Tim Bontemps]

Yeah.

[Bam McMahon]

It's a penny pension move. Is it a penny pinching move that sets up a bigger splash then that's one thing. Is it a penny pinching move because you're pinching pennies? That's another thing.

[Tim Bontemps]

Yeah, I mean, if they end up better by, by Thursday night, then that's all good.

[Brian Windhorst]

All right, so this is about to be my 23rd trade deadline. I don't know how many for you, McMahon. Some somewhere up there. I can't count that. I.

[Tim Bontemps]

15.

[Brian Windhorst]

All right, well, we will all be a part of ESPN's trade deadline coverage, which has a four hour show on ESPN. ESPN2 on Thursday.

[Bam McMahon]

Talking about NBA Today.

[Brian Windhorst]

It's a trade deadline special. It's kind of like NBA Today, but so. So we'll soldier through it and then we'll see you guys afterwards.

[Bam McMahon]

Soldier through it. Oh, it's a tough way to make a living.

[Brian Windhorst]

Yeah. All right, thank you very much to Devon and Jackson and I think Luis joining us for the first time as producing the pod tonight. Thank you to McMahon. Thank you to Bontemps. Thank you for watching and listening to the Hoop Collective. Thank you for taking in all of our trade deadline coverage and we look forward to talking to you when it's all over.

[Bam McMahon]

Adios, amigos.