Rock Bottom For Tanking? + Major Playoff Seeding Drama In Final Weekend & A Special Guest

Summary

Podcast Summary: Brian Windhorst & The Hoop Collective

Episode: "Rock Bottom For Tanking? + Major Playoff Seeding Drama In Final Weekend & A Special Guest"

Release Date: April 10, 2026
Host: Brian Windhorst
Co-Hosts: Vince Goodwill, Anthony Slater
Special Guest: Maxime Reynaud (Sacramento Kings rookie)

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Main Theme / Purpose

This episode explores the depths and absurdities of tanking in the NBA, the latest drama around playoff seeding as the regular season closes, and features a special interview with Sacramento Kings rookie Maxime Reynaud — a standout among this season’s rookies, with fresh insights on his journey, the NBA grind, and the French basketball pipeline.

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Key Discussion Points & Insights

1. Rock Bottom for NBA Tanking? (00:35–16:37)

Sacramento Kings Foul Incident & Tanking Allegations

• Brian Windhorst opens by addressing the much-discussed Sacramento Kings “tanking” controversy surrounding a late-game foul and the NBA's resulting investigation.
  • "I think we have reached rock bottom. I hope it is rock bottom, but we have reached rock bottom of this tanking era of the NBA because the Kings went under an NBA investigation this week for tanking." (01:40, Windhorst)
• Anthony Slater and Vince Goodwill clarify that the critical foul was a coaching blunder, not a tanking strategy, despite Draymond Green publicly sparking the narrative.
  • “The case is very obvious that it was just a Doug Christie mistake ... organizationally, they deactivated Demar DeRozan, deactivated Russell Westbrook ... But of all the teams that are tanking, the Kings are not doing the best job of tanking.” (05:14, Slater)
• Discussion on the media microscope, and how franchises like Sacramento don’t get the benefit of the doubt due to their history.
  • “The Kings as a franchise have not earned benefit of the doubt.” (07:37, Windhorst)
• Windhorst and the team share past coaching blunder stories (Erik Spoelstra, Brad Stevens) for context — rookie and even veteran coaches make glaring mistakes under pressure.
  • “Brad Stevens ... They go to line up. The ball’s on the baseline. He didn’t realize the ball was on the baseline, not the sideline. Drew up the completely wrong play ... and the great Brad Stevens has botched a game.” (13:34, Windhorst)

Notable Quotes

• Windhorst on Draymond Green’s impact: “Draymond can put a spotlight on something and the league hops too.” (03:18)
• Goodwill on league punishment: “One of the more unused hammers in this is just like fine teams, maybe even talk ... your draft pick’s going to the end of the first round, whatever.” (05:22)
• Windhorst sums it up: “We are at a point in the league where a team has to say, ‘We are not cheating, we’re just dumb.’ That was their defense, and that’s why we’ve reached rock bottom.” (15:24)

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2. The Playoff Seeding Wild West (16:37–42:16)

Major Injuries and Their Ripple Effects

• Big news: Joel Embiid has appendicitis, requiring surgery and likely out for the 76ers’ play-in appearance.
  • "It’s possible that his season might be over … The Sixers are finally, like, healthy, and Joel Embiid comes down to appendicitis?" (16:39, Windhorst)
• The panel debates how Embiid’s absence saps any upset potential from Philly and throws late-season Eastern Conference dynamics into uncertainty.
  • “You don’t see teams that don’t play together for the entire season all of a sudden put us together in the last week of the year and then go into the play-in, upset somebody.” (18:12, Goodwill)

Play-In Impact, Power Dynamics, and Sidestepping Opponents

• Teams are “maneuvering” to avoid tougher first- and second-round matchups, with particular interest in Cleveland possibly angling to face Detroit over Boston.
  • “I think it behooves ... the Cavs to stay in four. They have struggled against the Celtics. ... I think Cleveland’s more talented than Detroit … but you’re going to telegraph that to Detroit that you want to play them?” (25:44, Windhorst & Goodwill)
• The perennial debate: Is it better to try to control your path or simply play your best?
  • “I think that’s the wrong message to send to your club. ... That’s loser-ish to me, honestly.” (29:51, Goodwill)

Late Season Notable Games (Timestamps Throughout 23:16–35:44)

• Thunder (OKC) have clinched the #1 seed — likely to benefit from a smooth path in the West.
• Multiple “must-watch” and “must-lose” games with tanking and playoff seedings at stake, e.g.,
  • Clippers vs. Blazers for the 8th seed,
  • Clippers-Warriors and Nuggets-Spurs implications,
  • Houston’s push against Philadelphia and Minnesota,
  • Charlotte vs. New York — can the young Hornets make noise?

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3. The OKC Thunder Juggernaut (36:24–41:42)

• Thunder’s dominance: “The Oklahoma City Thunder have won 19 of 20 games and their last four victories have been ... by 30–40 points.” (36:24, Windhorst)
• Chet Holmgren’s emergence: “Chet came out knowing the assignment for that game.” (37:46, Windhorst)
• The panel notes how OKC’s playoff path is lined up for a deep, fresh run, while other teams (Denver, San Antonio, Minnesota) may be worn down by heavy battles.
  • “Their path to the Finals ... they don’t get tested until the Conference Finals.” (37:57, Goodwill)
• Big picture: The play-in has injected more urgency and relevance for more teams at season’s end.
  • “The play-in has been a positive effect ... Throughout some of the ugliness of the regular season, like, we’ve had some pretty good storylines.” (40:26, Goodwill)

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4. Special Guest: Maxime Reynaud (44:37–64:16)

On His Rookie NBA Experience

• Physical Grind of the NBA: “You’re holding up on nothing right now. We have two games left ... it’s more than anything I’ve done before ... the pace, way higher, physicality way higher.” (44:58, Reynaud)
• Draft Process Reflections: Expected to go late first, dropped to 42nd but credits injuries for opening opportunity and making the most of his chance.
  • “We kind of went from a 42nd pick into now ... I’ve shown that I belong, especially over the second half of the season.” (46:06, Reynaud)

Russell Westbrook’s Influence

• Surprise Teammate: “I just walk into the training room and I see Russ standing there ... turned out we just had signed him this morning, so really changed everything for me.” (47:30, Reynaud)
• Vet Guidance: “The one thing about Russ — he’s going to keep talking to you. He’s an amazing vet ... He just makes people around him better.” (48:15, Reynaud)
• Intensity: “He’s 100%. First play of the practice, two-on-one, fast break, just dunk on the coach and you’re like, okay, you’re 18 right now. What’s going on?” (49:28, Reynaud)

French Basketball Pipeline & Identity

• On France’s NBA Boom: “We started breaking the seal a couple years ago ... Our generation grew up watching these guys win NBA championships, win European championships, compete in the Olympics ... We have a ton of freak athletes.” (52:57, Reynaud)
• National Team Ambitions: “Every French player takes a lot of pride in playing for the national team … There’s no reason for us not to aim for gold.” (54:36, Reynaud)

Friendship (& Rivalry) with Victor Wembanyama

• Early Encounters: “We were probably the very same height the first time, but very quickly, he grew fast ... Montreal, we probably had the tallest 2-3 zone in the history.” (56:31, Reynaud)
• Chess Battles: “We had the opportunity to play each other … it’s been something that has been growing in the basketball community.” (57:30, Reynaud)

On Adapting & Being a European in the NBA

• Welcome-to-the-NBA Moment: “Russell Westbrook dropping this off on my locker: Spider Man backpack that I have to carry everywhere.” (60:39, Reynaud)
• Perceptions of Europeans: “I love it when they [talk trash] ... if we’re giving you buckets right now, you better lock in because this is not going to help your case.” (62:04, Reynaud)
• Adjusting to Defensive Attention: “...after you have two back-to-back 30-point games, like the third game you come in, there’s like four people in the paint as soon as you catch it.” (62:59, Reynaud)

Final Reflections

• Windhorst highlights Reynaud’s quick rise and likely All-Rookie team nod, noting how he embodies the new wave of versatile, multi-skilled European big men reshaping the league.

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Notable Quotes

• Windhorst: “We are at a point in the league where a team has to say, ‘We are not cheating, we’re just dumb.’” (15:24)
• Maxime Reynaud: “If we’re giving you buckets right now, you better lock in because this is not going to help your case.” (62:04)
• Vince Goodwill: “That’s loser-ish to me, honestly. It really is. That’s some loser.” (29:51, about ducking playoff opponents)
• Reynaud on Westbrook: “He takes you under his wing, and he just kind of shows you what the NBA is like. He’s the best. I mean, he’s a social beast, too ... So he’s been the best.” (51:19)

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Timestamps for Key Segments

| Topic | Timestamp | |----------------------------------------------------------|----------------| | Tanking, Kings Foul, League Investigations | 01:38–16:37 | | Embiid’s injury & Playoff Picture in East | 16:39–22:27 | | Playoff Manipulation, Seeding Debates | 22:48–32:43 | | OKC’s Dominance, Thunder Playoff Path | 36:24–41:42 | | The Impact of the Play-In Tournament | 40:13–41:42 | | Maxime Reynaud Interview | 44:37–64:16 |

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Memorable Moments

• The Kings’ defense: “We’re not tanking. Our coach made a stupid play.” (04:46, Windhorst)
• Reynaud’s rookie hazing: “Spider man backpack that I have to carry everywhere, but could have been worse.” (60:47)
• Insight on French talent: “I do believe we have a ton of freak athletes ... we’re just on a really, really good train right now and just trying to ride that wave for as long as we can.” (53:54)
• OKC's sheer domination: “Their last four victories have been ... by 30–40 points.” (36:24)

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Tone Summary

The conversation is analytical, irreverent, and at times self-deprecating. Windhorst and his co-hosts combine deep insider knowledge with a casual, clubby banter, frequently referencing NBA inside stories, league politics, and their own reporting hustle. Reynaud matches their energy, mixing earnest rookie humility with the confidence of someone who knows he belongs.

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For New Listeners

This episode offers a sharp, up-to-the-minute breakdown of the NBA’s tanking crisis, gives context (and criticism) of the playoff seeding drama, and delivers a genuinely insightful and charming portrait of a rising NBA rookie and the French basketball pipeline. If you want insider perspective on the league’s machinations alongside human stories from its next generation, this episode is essential.

Transcript

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[Brian Windhorst]

Welcome to the Hoop Collective podcast. We talk about the NBA, which we're doing on Thursday afternoon. Joining me from New York City is Vince Goodwill.

[Wendy]

What up though, Wendy?

[Brian Windhorst]

You're up and down the coast this week, if I'm not mistaken, Mr. New York now joining us from Sacramento, California. We're going to talk about Sacramento today, Mr. Anthony Slater.

[Vince Goodwill]

Leading the show is this first time

[Brian Windhorst]

this season it's going to dominate the show because later on in the podcast we've got a guest, Sacramento Kings rookie Maxime Reynaud. And you know, I don't have guests very often. I mean, you gentlemen, of course, but I don't have player guests very often. I only do it a few times a year. It gets offered to me, fair amount. Not that, you know, I'm not getting offered, you know, you know, LeBron and Shay, you know, just to be clear. But you know, I like talking, I like the people that we talk about the NBA with, but I have an interest. I think people should know more about Maxime. And also I like French guys. What do you want me to say?

[Vince Goodwill]

He's the brightest spot in their season?

[Brian Windhorst]

Might be true. It certainly wasn't the brightest spot. Earlier this week I ended up spending multiple phone calls and I know you did too. Slater on Wednesday talking about a King's foul that I can't believe I talked about. And I actually, I do not want to necessarily go over the chapter and verse of this because it received heavy coverage. This foul that Doug Christie called. I just want to say that I think we have reached rock bottom. I hope it is rock bottom, but we have reached rock bottom of this tanking era of the NBA because the Kings went under an NBA investigation this week for tanking. The amount of tanking on a daily basis in the NBA is beyond laughable. Like if, you know, you could have like offensive, you know, shameful, whatever. Like wherever laughable is, it's beyond laughable. And we don't almost ever talk about it because as you guys have heard me say, probably I. I don't want to. It's good people doing, you know, a bad thing. That makes sense. So I don't want to judge, but I can't help this. And the reason I want to say it's rock bottom. Slater and you know this is that the Sacramento Kings, first off, the NBA in general investigating this. All the tanking thing that's going on on a day to day basis, this is what they actually call an investigation on. There probably has been other investigations that we don't know about, but the fact that this was an investigation, I don't even know where to start on that.

[Vince Goodwill]

Well, I mean, I know. I know why it happened, but you can go ahead.

[Brian Windhorst]

Yes, but you can say in a second, yeah, I don't necessarily need to go over it. Draymond called it out, by the way, Vince, something that I've learned this week, number one, Draymond Green. No matter what anybody says, Draymond Green's power.

[Wendy]

Yes.

[Brian Windhorst]

Because Draymond can put a spotlight on something and the league hops too. I think that should be one thing that we should take away. Second thing is I have gotten so much lobbying about awards and I'm not talking about the teams sending out stuff. I don't let the teams mostly have my address. I don't put my address in the book so they can't find me to send me Some teams still like get through the thicket and send me stuff. When I. A few years ago, when I got like an 8 foot long box from the Timberwolves, it was filled to the brim with packing stuff and when you opened it, it just exploded out with Carl Town stuff. After that, I said, no more. I know there's sometimes some cool stuff.

[Vince Goodwill]

It was like a Carl Town's fathead that was like life size. I remember that in.

[Brian Windhorst]

Did you get that giant Fox Christmas?

[Vince Goodwill]

I remember was in that. Cause, you know, coach of the year. Yeah, there's.

[Brian Windhorst]

And no, again, no offense to these PR departments. These are good people. But anyway, I'm not talking about the teams. I'm talking about like agents, coaches, just, you know, lobbying hard. Not only that, guys bending themselves into pretzels to get to 65 games. I don't want to hear anybody say they don't care about awards ever again. Actions over words. All right, Having said that, I have to just say that the King's defense, Slater, the King's defense was that our coach completely screwed up and was not

[Vince Goodwill]

paying attention, made a strategical error. Yeah.

[Brian Windhorst]

Basically they said we were not tanking Our coach made a stupid play. That's where we are.

[Vince Goodwill]

Well, because that's the truth. That's what happened. I understand he fouled Seth Curry believing he had a foul to give and he wanted to, you know, use the. Use it or lose it timeout, which, by the way, then he went in the huddle, did draw up a play for McDermott, who, who committed the foul. And they hit a three and one up three after they were down 16. But, yeah, I mean, I feel a little at fault because I roped Draymond Green into this conversation a bit. Because I was right.

[Brian Windhorst]

No, you were not at fault.

[Vince Goodwill]

So I'm writing that big tanking story that we had on the website that

[Brian Windhorst]

morning, next morning, saw him reading it on his phone or whatever.

[Vince Goodwill]

So I use that Draymond Green quote in it, the one about finding teams, because I thought it was useful. You know, everybody's trying to find a solution. And I agree with Draymond. I do think one of the more unused hammers in this is just like find teams, maybe even talk, you know, you can get to the level of, if teams are doing it so egregiously for such a long period of time, hey, your draft pick's going to the end of the first round, whatever. We can get into that or not later. But yes, Draymond Green insinuated that the foul was done for, you know, intention to lose. And I think, you know, the case is very obvious that it was just a Doug Christie mistake. Now, the Kings, organizationally, they deactivated Demar DeRozan, deactivated Russell Westbrook in the game. They've already have season ending injuries to their other right.

[Brian Windhorst]

But the Kings, of all the teams that are taking the Kings are not doing the best job of taking.

[Vince Goodwill]

They have a better record than the warriors since the All Star. Oh, my God, almost won that game. And you know, we're still up late in that game. So yeah, they're, they're frustrating.

[Brian Windhorst]

Can I just say, Slater, as a quick aside, which I've known to do, has anybody looked at the warriors three point defensive numbers for the last two months? Do you know what teams are shooting in the corners against them?

[Vince Goodwill]

This is like a decade long thing, but go ahead.

[Brian Windhorst]

Okay. Well, in the last, since the All Star break in the right corner, they're allowing 56% 3 point shooting higher than normal.

[Vince Goodwill]

But, you know, that's been a frustration for warriors followers for a long time.

[Brian Windhorst]

Well, those warriors followers have never been

[Vince Goodwill]

this frustrated by it, although they feel less frustrated now. The games feel Quite a bit less consequential.

[Brian Windhorst]

Well, that's true, but I'm sorry.

[Vince Goodwill]

So you're correct, though. They. It did feel strange that the Kings got the microscope yanked at them when the reality is they have gone from pole position in the tanking sweepstakes to, you know, tied with the Jazz and not doing any of the really egregious stuff that the Jazz are doing. And, yeah, if they had won the other night, they would have hopped ahead of the Jazz, but they ended up being kind of the poster boy of it. But that was. That's probably a little bit more of an indictment on the consumption and modern, you know, age of.

[Maxime Reynaud]

Of.

[Vince Goodwill]

I don't know, just the media. I mean, we don't need to get into a media podcast, but they should have never been getting killed specifically for that.

[Wendy]

Well, the thing. The problem is that the Kings as a franchise have not earned benefit of the Doubt. Not that any of the other. Like, if we saw the Pacers doing this, I don't think. I think we would have said, oh, maybe Carlisle just screwed up there. Or if Carlisle said after the game, came out immediately after the game and said, hey, I screwed up. Like, that's sort of reading the room and giving the franchise a certain level of respect. The fact that I don't know if Doug Christie came out and said anything like Doug.

[Vince Goodwill]

I would say two things. Number one, Draymond talked after Christie. It wasn't a really big topic until Draymond made it a big topic. And, you know, there was not a ton of local Sacramento media that was there, you know, for the game. It's the end of a. Whatever season, so. And then they had yesterday off, so he wasn't able to address it until practice today, number one. And number two, I would almost say if Rick Carlisle and the Pacers did it, it would be more like, no, Rick Carlisle didn't make that mistake. I almost think the benefit of the Doubt helps the Kings in this scenario

[Wendy]

if, you know, the benefit of ineptitude. Like, we think that they are just that bad, badly, poorly run, that, of course they would do something stupid like that. Why would you hack a Curry? Like, it's not like, you know, that's the. I take someone from the lead. They're like, yeah, they're so great. They hack the curry. And I was like, oh, that makes sense. That makes perfect sense. So to me, that's the coaching blunder. Makes all the sense. It does put. I wonder if Doug Christie. All right, that's. I'm fascinated by that whole Kings thing because I don't know if Doug Christie Should Doug Christie still be coaching the Kings after this season?

[Vince Goodwill]

I'll say this, I think there is a decent chance Doug Christie remains the head coach of the Kings going into next year. That's all I'll say at this point. Obviously that's not, you know, confirmed. We'll see.

[Brian Windhorst]

But listen, sometimes young coaches make mistakes. Jackson have I told the story about Brad Stevens? Is that something I've told in the pod or is that something didn't quickly

[Vince Goodwill]

before you maybe tell that because we can do story time, right? Didn't Spoelstra what was the thing? Didn't Spoelstra do something really egregious?

[Wendy]

He almost had a Spoelstra called a timeout that he didn't have NBA cup games against Detroit. Like Detroit called a sideline out of bounds. They got an alley OOP out of it and SPO literally walked with like one second left to tie the game. And SPO, as SPO does like stomped into mid court, called a timeout and all his assistants are like, bro, we don't have one. And that pretty much gave the Pistons a chance to win the game.

[Brian Windhorst]

That was a couple years ago.

[Vince Goodwill]

Yeah, that is much worse than the mistake Christie made, by the way. Let's just say that More Hoop Collective

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[Brian Windhorst]

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[Vince Goodwill]

Whatever.

[Brian Windhorst]

All right, so his first year, what people don't remember which Brad will gladly tell you, I mean they weren't tanking by today's measure because tanking by today's measure is, you know, sitting 17 players by the way. And one of the biggest tank. No, you know, it doesn't matter because it'll be over by the time this podcast comes out. But one of the biggest tank games in the league is happening on Thursday night. Indiana versus Brooklyn. Indiana needs to win to guarantee itself a top four position, which they really, really need. Each position up to Indiana is the better it is because, you know, like. Like, let's say Indiana gets to number two position and then two teams pass them. You know, then they're fourth. They keep their pick. If they get the number three position and two teams pass them, then they fall to five and. And they lose their pick to. To LA for the Zubots trade, because their pick, if it falls between 5 and 10 or 5 and 9, whatever it is, goes to LA. The point is, this is a really important game to lose. Brooklyn has won its last two games. They are in danger of falling out of the top four. Tankathon Super Bowl Thursday night. By the way, there are 17 players out for that game between the two teams. 17. Obviously, many of them have legitimate injuries. I'm not saying that, but I'm just telling you 17 players are out. And by the way, Tyrese Haliburton announced yesterday he's back to playing five on five. Okay? Brad Stevens, his first year is doing like, you know, they're. They're, they're rebuilding in Boston, okay? They're not under any pressure to win. Midway through that first season. It's a clutch situation. The. The. The Celtics are down one or two points, have a chance to tie or win. Stevens calls his last timeout team comes around, he pulls out the grease board, draws up the play. You go. Here you go. Here you go, here. It's probably some brilliant play. All right, guys, let's go win this game. It's a sideline, out of bounds play. He specializes in those sideline, out of bounds play slobs, they call them. They go to line up. The ball's on the baseline. He didn't realize the ball was on the baseline, not on the sideline. Drew up the completely wrong play. Players had no idea what to do. There's no timeouts left. Play is botched. Nobody ever knows, right? And the great Brad Stevens has botched a game as a. Because he's a rookie head coach, because this stuff happens. Because, you know, however the rules are. He didn't quite understand the rules. So I'm never going to get on a coach for making a mistake, you know, especially a rookie head coach like that. Having said that, we are at A point in the league where our team has to say, we are, you know, we are not cheating. We're just, you know, dumb. That was their defense, and that's why we've reached rock bottom. Okay, let's move on. And I'll tell you something else. I'm not going to really talk much, that much to Max about it. I did talk to Kings players yesterday, and the Kings players I talked to protected Doug Christie. They didn't say what really happened, even though they knew it wasn't until later, when there was going to be an investigation, that the team was like, listen, this is what happened. You know, I just want to say that I actually learned something about the Kings yesterday, which was the Kings players that I talked to, and just crazy. I'm talking to another Kings player on this podcast. I'm just. Before you even hear that, I'm letting you know I'm not going to make this a big deal with Max, okay? If you want to get mad at me, fine. You think that's a mistake, Vinnie?

[Vince Goodwill]

Kings takeover day.

[Brian Windhorst]

All right. We're talking about a little bit about Max, who, by the way, grew up a little bit with Victor in Paris. Okay? Vince. Joel Embiid. This is a big game that's happening Thursday night for the Sixers. Sixers are trying, like, desperately to get out of the play in. The Houston Rockets are trying to get to the four seed right now. As we do this. They're tied with the Lakers. Lakers have the tie break. You know, there's a number of important games over the next few days. We're going to talk about them in a minute. And Joel Embiid, I hope he's going to be okay, because this is serious. Joel Embiid has appendicitis and needs an appendectomy and is going to be out and almost certainly will be out for whatever play in that the Sixers have. And I hope he recovers well, but I don't know how long it will take him to recover. It's possible that his season might be over. I don't even know what to say. The Sixers are finally, like, healthy, and Joel Embiid comes down to appendicitis. I don't even know, man. I don't even know what to say. I hope he's healthy. I hope he gets healthy. But what. What can you. What can you do? There's. There's nothing you can do. You gotta be banging your head against the wall if you're a Philly fan.

[Wendy]

It's odd because, Wendy, I was In Philly over the weekend, when Detroit clinched the best record in the East. And I was going in thinking, okay, let's see what Paul George looks like. And of course, everybody's fascinated with the backcourt of Maxi and Edgecom. And that was the day before or the day after. Embiid was talking all this stuff about they won't let me play and everything else, and then this, and then all of a sudden this comes up. But during that game, I'm sitting there thinking, with Embiid there or not, I'm like, does this team have interest in defending tonight, or is this just a bunch of guys who feel good about being able to get their own shots because they're finding their own way? I didn't know how much of a chance, Wendy, I was really going to give them as a whole. Like, with Paul George missing the 25 games, like, that's a pretty big piece. And as fresh as he was coming back, that slides guys into roles that they aren't going to play in when the team is whole. Embiid being in and out when he plays, he's fantastic on offense. Maxey is great on offense. Edgecom, I think, is going to be a star, but I don't. I. Maybe I was a little more pragmatic or negative, whatever you want to call it, but I didn't give them much of a chance once they got whole. You don't see teams that don't play together for the entire season all of a sudden put us together in the last week of the year and then go into the play in upset somebody or whatever it was. Like, I just thought this was going to end. It's just unfortunate for us and Joel Embiid that he has appendicitis. Like, who could have imagined something like that right now, Wendy? Like, it's just. It's like a black cat following this organization has been for years. And, like, you can't count on him to come back and play like he's going to. He's getting the procedure as of time of this recording. He's getting it done this afternoon. You can't expect him to go out there and play and be any reasonable version of himself.

[Vince Goodwill]

The top four in the east has felt settled for a long time, right? But it did feel like a couple weeks ago, three weeks ago, whatever. Like, five through 10 was getting more fearsome. Obviously, you got the rise of the Hornets and what Atlanta's doing, and, you know, the Sixers, this theoretical idea that maybe they would be fully healthy, you know, come tip off A game one. It feels like the that part of the east, especially with the Magics kind of wacky last couple months, it's just losing its teeth a little bit. I just kind of think it's going to be those four moving on. And I don't know how y' all feel. I mean, are you still feeling, man, that you don't want to face this team, you don't want to face that team in the bottom part of the bracket? Or is it not.

[Wendy]

Not Charlotte or Atlanta? You're not a believer.

[Vince Goodwill]

To me, Charlotte has shown, I think, Brian, maybe you would think differently over the last month. They're just, you know, when they face like the Boston or some of these other more marquee matches lately, to me that it's just still a year away. I mean, maybe it's the Knipple struggles, whatever.

[Brian Windhorst]

But yeah, Knipple's had a couple of down games. They've lost some big games. Three or maybe three or so and three or four in a row. By the way. Like say whatever you want to say. When Bontemps his poll came out last week and it showed the con Knippel had a commanding lead the next game, the Mavericks were basically feeding Cooper Flag like he was Bam Adebayo. And I'm not taking anything away from his 50 point game. I'm just stating those two things happened and then he had like a high point game after that. But don't worry, do not worry. The Mavericks aren't going crazy. Last night they were playing like, you know, Tuesday night or Wednesday night they're playing in Phoenix. It's a one possession game, like three minutes to go. Cooper flag is on the bench. Let's not, let's not get crazy and try to have Cooper flag win you a game. Oh, no. Get him 50 and a loss. Sorry, I digress. But you know, you know, I would say Charlotte is a team that if they're able to win their way into the play in, it would be awesome. It would be great experience for those guys to maybe, you know, you know, get a couple of home playoff games. Great for that fan base. If they can win a playoff game, they get into the playoffs and win a game, it will be great. Do I expect them to pull an upset? I do not. And do I. Did I see Philly under that same situation? No, I see Philly as a team that you would want to try to avoid if you could in the play in so. Or you know, coming out of the play in.

[Vince Goodwill]

I mean, does that change with this embiid news, of course.

[Brian Windhorst]

Yeah, of course, because the, their ceiling is affected. You know, Embiid is a guy who can, who can score 50 in a game, score, you know, have 37 and 17. Not only that, he can, he can draw eight fouls in a game and mess up your whole rotation. So. And by the way, when he's been healthy and out there, he's put up big giant numbers.

[Wendy]

So he's had a great offense, he's had a great offensive year.

[Brian Windhorst]

Yes. So, yeah, that's just crazy. I don't even know what to say. We'll see how that affects tonight's game. But certainly if you're the Lakers, you're not real happy about that because the Lakers were trying to figure out a way, I think, to get away. I don't know if they can win, you know, tonight. When's Thursday night in, in San Francisco?

[Vince Goodwill]

Let me tell you, they got, they got, they got a, they got a note of good luck themselves tonight because Steph Curry was going to play on one side of this. Back to back, the thought was he was going to play against LeBron for the only time this season Thursday night. But late morning Thursday, the Warriors decided to sit Steph Curry in this game, play him in Sacramento Friday night. So the Lakers, I would expect to win. We'll see. You know, people are listening after the result, who knows? But it's not going to be a terrific warriors lineup out there against the Lakers.

[Brian Windhorst]

Let's take a look at some games on Friday night, a game that has been defanged. Thunder at San Antonio. We will see. I'm sorry, Thunder. I'm sorry. Thunder at Denver. We will see who the Thunder play in that game. The Thunder have now clinched the number one seed. Denver is highly motivated to win, to try to hold on to the three. And frankly, the Thunder are motivated for the Nuggets to win this game too, because I think the, the Thunder would like to see Denver stay in the three so that they have to only play Denver or San Antonio, not both.

[Vince Goodwill]

Well, and forget about just the appeal of avoiding Denver. How about now the appeal of keeping it Rockets, Lakers, I mean, that, that matchup looks a lot more tastier to the Thunder than it did, you know, two weeks ago for sure.

[Brian Windhorst]

So, you know, by the way, the Thunder can sit five guys and still win. I just don't think they're going to win in Denver, who's won nine in a row. And so I'm not expecting to see premium effort from the Thunder on Friday night. So that game is not as important. Another game that will be interesting, Cleveland at Atlanta. Now Cleveland won in Atlanta, won against Atlanta at home on Wednesday. They had a great second half as one of their best halves they've had in a few weeks. Their defense is still worrisome. They gave up 67 points in the first half of that game. However, in the second half, Donovan Mitchell played great. James Harden played very well. Evan Mobley ate up the Hawks interior. By the way, it's a 66% chance that the Hawks and Cavs are going to play in the first round according to bpi. I think Evan Mobley would potentially feast in that series because while the Hawks have really good perimeter play, they're weak on the interior. And we saw Evan Mobley go for 22 and 19. I think however, the Cavs are, you know, we'll see what happens with the Knicks tonight against the Celtics. But the Cavs are right on the heels of the Knicks for the three seed. And I think the Cavs, I think it behooves Vince, I think it behooves the Cavs to stay in four. They have struggled against the Celtics. The Celtics are the hottest team in the East. The injury report I don't think has come out quite yet. I saw the Cavs put out pictures that of who was boarding their plane and Donovan Mitchell was on the plane. So he's definitely went to Atlanta. But if the Cavs all of a sudden have a whole bunch of guys on their injury report and they don't play full power and Atlanta hasn't secured getting out of the play in yet. Atlanta has lost two games this week. They lost in New York at the, at the buzzer and they lost in Cleveland. Atlanta needs a win. You know, they may just, you know, Cleveland could play their whole team. Atlanta could beat them anyway. They're 18 and 4 in the last 20 years.

[Vince Goodwill]

Did you see the finish of that Atlanta New York game?

[Brian Windhorst]

Yeah, that was a really big game for the Eastern Conferen conference standings.

[Vince Goodwill]

And did you see what happened at the buzzer?

[Brian Windhorst]

Of course.

[Vince Goodwill]

That was, you know, I don't know if you talked about it maybe on the last pod, but I'm telling you that says close. CJ McCollum hits like a beyond half court bank shot to tie.

[Brian Windhorst]

It was similar to the Aaron Gordon dunk last year in the playoffs.

[Vince Goodwill]

Yeah, it was like leather was scraping his fingertip right when the buzzer hit.

[Brian Windhorst]

Right.

[Vince Goodwill]

It was, you know, it tells you how much I feel like players like know like he didn't celebrate hitting it which would have been one of the craziest shots of the year. I felt like he knew. Yes. It was like touching my fingernail at the time the buzzer went off. That was a crazy finish. But go ahead.

[Brian Windhorst]

So I don't know what the Cavs are going to do quite yet, Vince, but it's possible because they play. The Cavs last game is against Washington. I'm not sure they could lose to Washington if they tried. So their chance, their quote chance at a loss would be to lose to Atlanta. Like I said, Atlantic could beat him anyway, but. And they haven't maneuvered yet. So I don't want to. I don't have all the information. But if the Cavs maneuver to try to stay on the side of the bracket is the Pistons, how do you think that will be received in Detroit?

[Wendy]

I think you can all imagine how it's going to be received in Detroit if the Cavs are telegraphing like I think, Wendy, they've telegraphed that they want to stay on this side of the bracket. The one person who doesn't agree with it, I think, was Donovan Mitchell, who said you shouldn't be playing with the playoff guys that way. But Kenny Atkins said that you have to strategize and know where you are and everything else. And as great as Evan Mobley is or will be against the Hawks, you put him and Jared Allen, two guys that we say are not necessarily the toughest set of big men in the league or in the Eastern Conference, and you put them against the healthy Isaiah Stewart and Jalen Duran. I think they should go play with something safe, I think. And then J.B. bickerstaff, as the head coach of Detroit, who used to coach the Cavs, do you think that he won't use this as a motivational tool for a team that operates out of spite? And you're giving them more spite. Like, I think Cleveland's more talented than Detroit. I think their A game is better when you got Harden and Donovan, you know, being supreme shot creators and everything else, and they have more shooting. But you're going to tell that you're going to telegraph that to Detroit that you want to play them. Wendy, I don't know if that's a safe thing to do.

[Brian Windhorst]

Well, first off, let me just say, and again, the Cavs have not done anything yet. They got to win the first round before they got to worry about who their second round opponent is. And the Cavs have a very good record since the All Star break. I think they're 19 and 6. When James Harden plays, but their defense is like 17th or 18th, and their three point defense is in the bottom 10 in that stretch. So I'm looking at a team, in fact, I was talking to, I was doing some, some interviews for the story that Bon Temps and I do every Friday. We talked about the Cavs a little bit. And I talked to this executive and he goes, I watched the Cavs last few weeks. He goes, they're going to go as far as Donovan Mitchell's offense carries them. That's what his opinion is. And Harden, I mean, can help with that. And you know that, by the way, that that might be the conference finals, but that's the position Donovan Mitchell's teams have been in for years, that they'll go as far as his offense carries them. And so far that has not carried them to the conference finals.

[Vince Goodwill]

I mean, you make obviously a good point about like, you know, telegraphing some bulletin board material. And certainly, like, that would be a storyline heading into that potential second round series. And, and the Pistons aren't necessarily the type of group you want to like, light a fire under, but it, I mean, they just, we're just basically saying they would prefer the, the Pistons over the Celtics, which I think is fair, you know.

[Maxime Reynaud]

Yeah.

[Brian Windhorst]

But if you have to manipulate, don't feel a certain way about it. Yeah.

[Vince Goodwill]

And you know what? That's part of it. But if you think you just got a better chance on the floor, like light a little match over here and avoid the Celtics over here, that, I mean, it might be a good idea. I could see why it looks.

[Wendy]

My thing is, And I, and I get this, like, I get that the Celtics look good and they look great, but this ain't the Celtics of last year that we thought was the juggernaut going into the second round of the playoffs where they came up short like the Celtics. I mean, Jason Tatum is playing well. Jaylen Brown is playing well. I don't think there's any team in the Eastern Conference that is so far head and shoulders above any other team that you need to be avoiding them and then pissing off the other team on the back end. Like, I agree that the Celtics playing their best game is probably a team that can get to the NBA Finals presently constructed. But I think this overwhelming fear of Boston, I don't, I wouldn't have it if I were a team like, and I don't think, I think that's the wrong message to send to your club. Like, Cleveland's goal is not just to get to the Eastern Conference finals. Cleveland's goal when you go get a James Harden, when you've had the best record in the east last year, when you won 60 plus games, should be to get to the Finals, which means you're going to have to see Boston in theory, no matter when it is. So to send a message to your players, hey, we don't want to play them just yet. That, that's loser ish to me, honestly. It really is. That's some loser.

[Brian Windhorst]

They haven't done it yet. They haven't done it yet. So we'll see. Maybe that, maybe that'll. By the way, maybe they'll play full out and the Hawks will just beat them, like I said. All right, Minnesota's playing at Houston on Friday. You know, Houston's looking at this at one point going, all right, we got the, one of the hardest schedules. We got to play Philly on Thursday, Minnesota on Friday. Embiid is in a hospital in Houston. And then I'm not sure whether ant Edwards is going to be ready to go. He, he, I think is going to try to get back, but Minnesota is locked into the six. They can't fall. They're not going to be able to catch Houston. So I don't know how much incentive they have to do that. I think their incentive is to just get healthy. But that's, that's a potentially key game. Another key game on Friday is Clippers at Portland.

[Vince Goodwill]

That's the one I'm watching.

[Brian Windhorst]

Yeah. So that is going to be pretty much for the eighth seed. The Clippers are a game ahead as we record this. And not only will that game be worth a one in the standings, but it controls the tiebreaker too. So if the Trailblazers win that game, they move into the eight.

[Vince Goodwill]

Yeah, and they face the Kings, which, who knows, Kings could come after you Sunday, but then they face the Kings on Sunday. Meanwhile, the Clippers face the warriors, who will get one of the Blazers or Clippers on Sunday or. No, they face the Clippers Sunday, but they'll get one of the two in the 9 10. So they'll have a little bit of influence maybe come Sunday, you know, to try to beat the Clippers or not. So.

[Brian Windhorst]

Well, the Clipper, the, the Clippers got a break when the Blazers blew that big lead against Denver a couple days ago that pushed the Blazers back to ninth. So look, the Blazers have actually lost two in a row, so that's actually a, you know, it's probably the biggest home game for.

[Vince Goodwill]

Into it or no, to Portland.

[Brian Windhorst]

Portland, biggest home in Portland in Two, three years. Right. Like forgetting something. Okay. On Saturday is a gigantic slate. Some of the teams actually there's no games on Saturday. Everybody's off Saturday. Then everybody plays on Sunday. There's only two.

[Wendy]

Only two times a game. Two times the games.

[Brian Windhorst]

Right, Right. That's right. There's an early slate and a late slate. So nobody has a quote unquote advantage of those games, the games that are potentially important. The Lakers are playing against Utah. It is possible the Lakers could win, you know, if they're able to win against. Against Sacramento against Warriors Thursday. Warriors on Thursday. I think they play Phoenix on Friday. So the Lakers have three games in four days. They pretty much, I think need to win two of the three to have any chance. So that could be important.

[Vince Goodwill]

Well, the Utah, I mean you mentioned it earlier, but like Utah right now tied with the Kings with a chance to maybe leap ahead or at minimum like coin flip with the Kings. They been very creative in their ways to lose games and I have a feeling they will be shoveling a win in the Lakers call.

[Brian Windhorst]

Right. So there hasn't been this influential of a. Of a Utah Laker game in the last day of the season since Kobe's last game. That was okay. We have Denver playing against San Antonio. I'm sorry, Denver playing against San Antonio. Maybe this game will matter for the 3 seed. Maybe Denver will have it locked up. I don't think San Antonio is going to be incentivized to show much of a hand. I don't think that's going to be that big of a game. Atlanta is playing at Miami. Miami is already locked into the play in. However, Miami is not locked into having the 10th seed. Miami could pass Charlotte. So that could be for. For a home playoff game or home play in game. And the Hawks have not yet clinched being into out of the play in which they very dearly want to depending on what happens on Friday against the Cavs. So maybe that's a really important game. Maybe the Hawks just let Miami have it. Let's see here. Memphis plays Houston. That's going to be a buy for Houston. If Houston can get through these two games against Philly and against Philly and Minnesota, they have a chance to clinch the four seed with if the Lakers get a loss. So that potentially could be big. And that one, Brooklyn at Toronto. Brooklyn could have to lose that game. Absolutely. Toronto could have to win. Brooklyn could have to lose that game to stay in the top four. Toronto could have to win that game to stay out of the play in. That's A game that if it comes down to it, I cannot see Brooklyn winning. That could be a potential buy for Toronto. Charlotte plays at New York. That game for the Knicks could be whether or not they hold on to the three seed or, or it could be whether Charlotte has a home game in the playing or not. Right now they are in home position but that could be a game that has, that has extra meaning. I don't know if I think that might be it. Am I missing anything guys?

[Vince Goodwill]

Well, that Clippers warriors game I mentioned, you know, theoretically depending on what happens between Clippers and Blazers Friday night could have some influence. And then you know, you mentioned the Denver San Antonio one. I again, I don't know like you said, who is or isn't going to play but they had a game a couple of weeks ago that was awesome. Right. Jokic Wemby and that is going. That's profiling to be the series of the second round. Right. The one. I think we're all probably monitoring most if those two clash at the two three. So you kind of hinted at it but maybe San Antonio purposely doesn't want to go after it because if the Nuggets beat him twice in a row going into the playoffs in like high stakes type games, I don't know. I don't know if that does or doesn't, you know, impact a team's mindset, but something to watch.

[Brian Windhorst]

I just want to say that the Oklahoma City Thunder have won 19 of 20 games and their last three victories have been 139 90. Last four victories have been 13996 over the Lakers, 146111 over the Jazz, 12387 over the Lakers and 128110 over the Clippers. Now I know that there's some tankers in there but they are beating all of these teams by 30 to 40 points.

[Vince Goodwill]

Chet Holmgren too. What are his that he was great in the two.

[Wendy]

He's incredible athletes.

[Brian Windhorst]

Yeah. The other night I went to the Laker game the other night on, on Tuesday night and I think Chet scored on three of the first four possessions. On one he had a backdoor cut or Shay drove the lane. He chat backdoor cut. He threw him a pass and Chet dunked it. I know, I know that there was a lot of attention given to JJ Redick calling timeout to take Jared Vanderbilt out of the game 16 seconds into the second quarter, but I'm just going to tell you he yanked Rui Hachimura two and a half Minutes into the game when Chet was putting him on the poster and didn't bring him back the rest of the first half? I don't think so. J.J. was trying to set a tone, and it was not just Vanderbilt who felt the wrath. And Chet came out knowing the assignment for that game.

[Wendy]

So, Wendy, the crazy thing is we were looking at Oklahoma City's path to the finals being almost like a treacherous one maybe as recently as two weeks ago.

[Brian Windhorst]

Right.

[Wendy]

I agree, you know, with. Maybe they would have to play the Clippers in round one and maybe Kawhi could have a moment and then in round two, that could have been in maybe a healthy Lakers team or Minnesota or whom or Denver or whomever. Now it's laying out that they don't get tested until the conference finals. They're going to be fresh and. And no champion I think, since 2018 has gotten past the second round. That was the 2019 warriors that wound up losing in the finals to Toronto. No champion since then has even gotten as far as the conference finals. And it looks like Oklahoma City could very well cruise to the conference finals this year while Minnesota takes a bite out of someone and San Antonio and Denver going to a slugfest for seven games, possibly like they're going to be fresh going into the first week. The, you know, was it the third week of May or whatever it is, and J Dub gets healthier and Chet recovers more, and a lot of that wear and tear that the champion goes through, they may not like, they may not see.

[Vince Goodwill]

They look at. And they look as fearsome right now as they did during that 241 stretch. It's not being talked about as much because it isn't this idea of like, oh, they're trying. They might chase down history. They obviously had the lull in the middle of season. Jalen Williams has had this, like, pretty turbulent year. But I, you know, they look as good as the team that we were talking about being historic early in the season.

[Brian Windhorst]

Yes. And I got to tell you, just spending a little bit of time around them this week, they're in a very, very good place. I know that's hardly a breaking news thing, but I can just tell you that they are. They are just as a team feeling in a very good rhythm. They're healthy. They feel confident. I know that San Antonio has come at them and Denver looks good. But. But you good points later. They started and finished like, absolutely killer. And so it should be pointed out.

[Vince Goodwill]

Yeah. And look, you know, shape at this point, I think we all believe is kind of Clinched mvp, they've clinched the one seed. And what Vinnie laid out is, is correct. I think, you know, we know the Thunder are an organization that like, monitors, you know, the. The chessboard in so many ways. And I think, you know, that it is setting up very nicely for them.

[Wendy]

I'll also say this from a big picture standpoint because we've been talking so much about the ugliness of everything, like the tanking and the kings and like 10 team A10 teams are tanking. So you're going to have less compelling games.

[Brian Windhorst]

True.

[Wendy]

You know, to really gauge things. But the fact that we are at this point of the season and there's so many playoff seedings yet to be decided. I will give the NBA some credit that the play in has been a positive effect because if it didn't exist, you wouldn't have teams worried about trying to get out of the play in. Teams worried about where they fit in. That I'll give the league some. I'll be the first one to bang Adam Silver over the head for some of the things that they have gotten wrong. This thing is something that they've gotten right. And throughout some of the ugliness of the regular season, like, we've had some pretty good storylines and I feel like we're going to be in good shape for the postseason, at least in the East.

[Vince Goodwill]

But the problem is what Brian mentioned earlier when he's going through the Sunday slate, he's like, buy, that team has a buy, that team has a buy.

[Brian Windhorst]

I know, man.

[Wendy]

Well, at game, at game 82, like, no matter what setup, I would agree

[Vince Goodwill]

with you that this is a normal time of year where teams are buys. The problem is they've been buys since what, like mid February. But that's another story. We don't need to.

[Brian Windhorst]

We just need to get to the end here. We just need to get to the end. Like I said, the Kings, the whole Kings experience, we need to get to the end.

[Vince Goodwill]

Playing week, by the way, should be good though. Like what you're, you know, play. Just see seeing the warriors trying to play themselves out with Steph in the west and then the East.

[Brian Windhorst]

Steph for sure. You know, you have a play in night where you get to see the Hornets have potentially a home game where they, you know, it'd be the biggest game in Charlotte in years on end and like to see those guys take that on, that would be. I think that would be exciting. Then you followed up with a Steph game. Like, that's. I mean, that's what you want that's the whole point of extending the playoffs is to see stuff like that. And no, it will not be probably as intense as the Western Conference finals, but it's not supposed to be. Let's just get there. And speaking of getting there in the Kings, we'll be joined here in a minute by Maxime Reynaud. Thank you so much, Vince and Slater. We'll talk to you guys next week.

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[Brian Windhorst]

All right. We are now joined by Max Reynaud of the Sacramento Kings, who is having a fascinating rookie season. You're at the very end here, Max. You've played like, like over 70 games. So let me just ask you, after 70 games of playing in the NBA, tell me, tell me how your body is feeling. How's, how, how are you holding up?

[Maxime Reynaud]

I mean, honestly, you, you're holding up on nothing right now. We have, we have two game left, really. Just trying to push through it. But it's more than anything I've done before. It's like what, two and a half college seasons, pretty much the pace, way higher, his physicality way higher. So it's been a lot and I'll definitely try to take care of my body after season, but, you know, less push.

[Brian Windhorst]

When you went to the draft process as a four year college player, what did you think was going to happen? And when you ended up as a second round pick, you picked 40 seconds. How did that make you feel? Cause I'm sure a year ago, right now you were thinking you were envisioning how this next year was going to go. How did you feel about the way that all played out?

[Maxime Reynaud]

That's a great question. Honestly, I feel like I finished my college career pretty strong. I was talking about it with some of our local media the other day. I mean, I was the only player in the country averaging 20 and 10 last year.

[Brian Windhorst]

Is that right? Yeah, yeah. And the teams threw everything at you. No offense to Stanford, but like, you know, it wasn't like there was somebody else they had to throw. I mean, I watched the teams some of the film. Like you were getting double teamed routinely.

[Maxime Reynaud]

Yeah, pretty much the entire year. I mean, obviously also going against teams like, you know, unc, Louisville, Duke, like pretty much all year round because we had switched to the acc. So I, I took a lot of pride in that. And then the, the next step for me was obviously preparing the workout, preparing the combine. I think I did pretty well in the game. I played there as well. So everything was kind of going my way when it came to this. To be completely transparent, I expected probably a late first round. I think that's kind of where some muck had me. That's also where I thought my talent level had me. But I ended up going to the 42nd pick to Sacramento Kings. And as you mentioned, it actually turned out to be great for me. Obviously, I don't want to wish anyone to get injured but we had a lot of injuries going on our team, and that kind of opened the door for me, and I really just tried to take full advantage of that situation. And so we kind of went from, you know, a 40 second peg into now, which you just mentioned, like 17 and 9 since the all Star break. So I feel like I've shown that I've belonged, especially over the second half this season, and I'm really just trying to build on that for next year.

[Brian Windhorst]

So let me ask you this. Right at the end of training camp, I don't know where you were mentally, but right at the end of training camp, the Kings sign Russell Westbrook. And as I've watched from afar, it seems like you and Russ have had a connection. First off, when you found out you were going to be Russell Westbrook's team mate, what did you think about that? And what is the Russell Westbrook experience been like this year for you?

[Maxime Reynaud]

I mean, it's unreal, to be honest. We. We were about to play LA for one of our precinct games, I believe. Or maybe it was just training camp. I forgot. But I just walk into the training room and I see Russ standing there and I'm like, is he visiting our team? What is he doing here? And turned out we just had signing this morning, so really changed everything for me. I think he had a great history of making his bigs better and making the people. Obviously, he's top five passing passer ever. So we very quickly had a connection, especially in that short role and also in transition. And he was really that guy that gave me a ton of confidence. The one thing about Russ that he's going to keep talking to you. He's an amazing vet.

[Brian Windhorst]

He keep talking to you like how? Always lovingly and supporting.

[Maxime Reynaud]

No, I mean, you got to perform, right? If he passes you the ball, you better make that shot.

[Vince Goodwill]

But.

[Maxime Reynaud]

But he's always talking to you about your confidence. Always. Whatever happened, the last play doesn't matter anymore. Let's move on. And then he always tells you about how he experienced his young days in OKC and how he took care of his body, took care of his training and all this. But then at the same time, if you're not on par with your usual game, he'll definitely come at you and be like, all right, time to lock in now. We have a second half to play. You better get better. And I think that's. That's why he was also mvp. He just makes people around him better. And he has that level of intensity that you have to match yeah.

[Brian Windhorst]

So you talk about intensity. So one of the things, like when I was talking to people in Denver his previous stop, they thought that like he one of his values and sounds weird because the guy's a former MVP, like 10 time allstar, whatever, but one of his values was in practice because like he like changed the vibe in practice. Like he doesn't like take, doesn't go easy. Do you feel like that's the way he rolls? Like he practices pretty intense too. Like for a guy who's been in the league whatever, 15 years or whatever.

[Maxime Reynaud]

Absolutely. I mean, and the craziest thing is that he also feels like it's an extra coach out there, you know, like whenever running through defensive schemes or offensive schemes, he's always going to add something to it. And as soon as we, we roll the ball, I mean he's 100%. Like just the other day, I mean a couple weeks before he, he got a, he got injured. We just rolled the ball. First play of the practice, two on one. Fazbear just dunk on the coach and you're like, okay, you're 18 right now. What's going on? But he's an absolute beast all the time, every day. And I think that's, that's what his great value in the league is to this day.

[Brian Windhorst]

One of the most impressive dunks I've ever seen in the NBA was a dead ball dunk that he made like it was, it was in Oklahoma City. He was in his total prime and there was some, you know, foul out on the outside and he just went ahead and went in and dunked it. And you know, I've seen 5,000 dunks and like he jumped so high in a dead ball situation that I like, I like gasped out loud like. And you know, I can't remember which Thunder player. Maybe it was like Stephen Adams who told me like, he's done stuff in practice and like, you know, now he's up there in age, but he's like, he's done stuff in practice that would like be like number one highlights of all time that no one will ever see.

[Maxime Reynaud]

I mean, I can't believe that. No question, he's a freak athlete. He's probably up there was like, you know, the five athletic guys in NBA history.

[Brian Windhorst]

I agree. I think he's one. I. Somebody asked me this recently who the greatest athlete I ever saw was. I think he might be up there.

[Wendy]

No question.

[Brian Windhorst]

Like if he played football and he was like a linebacker, he would, I think he would have been like a Hall of Fame, linebacker. Anyway, to digress, he's a. He's a complicated guy, Max. But as I've talked to his teammates over the years, I'm like, your age difference between, you know, what are you, 22?

[Maxime Reynaud]

Yes.

[Brian Windhorst]

You know, it's a huge age difference. But even when I was talking to guys who were older than him and, you know, now all these years later, you know, guys who were much younger than him, like, his teammates love him.

[Maxime Reynaud]

Absolutely.

[Brian Windhorst]

Up and down the line.

[Maxime Reynaud]

Feels like having another, you know, big brother on the team, like, it's awesome. He takes you under his wing, and he just kind of show you what the NBA is like. He's. He's the best. I mean, he's a social beast, too, you know, like, very charismatic. He's able to connect with everyone. So. So he's been the best.

[Brian Windhorst]

Yeah. Yeah. So you grew up in Paris or near Paris, right?

[Maxime Reynaud]

Yeah, in Paris.

[Vince Goodwill]

Absolutely.

[Brian Windhorst]

And you spent some time with Nanterre now? I have spent some time in Nanterre. Not as much as you, because when I was learning all about Victor Wembanyama, I went and spent some time with. At their. At their headquarters, and Frederick Donadieu, who I think is. Would you. What would you call him? The general manager? Is that what you would call.

[Maxime Reynaud]

Yeah. GM and president of Phila.

[Brian Windhorst]

Yeah. And I saw the dorms where all the players live now. You. Did you live in the dorms? I guess. Is it a dorm or an apartment? I don't know. What do you call it?

[Maxime Reynaud]

I mean, yeah, it's pretty much just like a bunch of little apartments put together. I did stay there during the preseason because we did the preseason with the pros together. So we're actually just, you know, like, his door was right here. My door was right here. We're just neighbors.

[Brian Windhorst]

You know, there's all of these players coming out of France who are now making an impact in the NBA. You are one of the latest ones to do that. Another French player coming in. What is it about, do you think? The system. Because you. You also developed in the US because you played four years at Stanford. But what do you think it is about this moment that's enabling so many French players to come to the US and have some success?

[Maxime Reynaud]

It's a great question. I feel like we. We started breaking the seal a couple years ago, you know, back when Boris Diab, Tony Parker and them were killing it with the Spurs. And I feel like our generation grew up watching these guys win NBA championship, win European championships, compete in the Olympics. So I think, naturally, the entire French community started like investing a ton into basketball and, and young kids started playing as well. I do believe we have a ton of freak athletes, extremely talented athlete all over the country and over the past couple of years we've just seen the result of that back to back. First pick. I believe last year we had maybe six, maybe seven player drafted and it was the most in France history. Right back to back. Silver medal in the Olympics. I think we can aim for gold for the next one. So we're just on a really, really good train right now and just trying to ride that wave for as long as we can.

[Brian Windhorst]

Yeah, well, I was at, I was at the game in China where the French beat the Americans in the World Cup. One of Rudy Gobert's finest moments, swatting Donovan Mitchell at the rim. I can only imagine what Rudy said in French.

[Maxime Reynaud]

I'm not going to tell you that.

[Brian Windhorst]

And then I was there in Tokyo when the French beat the Americans in the first pool play game which was. And then obviously the two. So what was it like? So you've played for the French national team. You played on the U20 team that won the European championship. So I'm guessing a goal for you is to play with Le Le Bleu in hopefully in la. Like is that something you, I'm sure you want to do? I don't want to put it in your mouth, but I'm sure that's something you're going for.

[Maxime Reynaud]

I mean, no question. I feel like we, we have a cycle starting this summer, couple qualification windows for the World cup and then the Olympics coming the year after. So definitely I want to be a part of this. I think every French player takes a lot of pride in playing for a national team and me individually has been a driven mind. So I do believe guys like, like Vic also really care about it. So probably have a pretty, pretty stacked team by 2028 and once again we have talents, we're competitors and I think France has a history of competing and succeeding at a very high level. So there's no reason for us not to aim for gold.

[Vince Goodwill]

Absolutely.

[Brian Windhorst]

And what was it? How did you feel about the gold medal game in Paris? Like how did you take that in? Were you in France when that went down?

[Maxime Reynaud]

So actually I was in France before during their preparation camp, but then I had to go back effort for, for summer practices. But obviously I was following the game. I mean it's heartbreaking to see Steph just go, absolutely.

[Brian Windhorst]

No, I know, man. I can only imagine what that was like. I mean the arena was. So, as you can imagine, the arena was just, you know, in an electric situation. When the national anthem played before the game, all of the. The fans singing the national anthem, like, you know, it was. It was an incredible thing to be there. Probably one of the most amazing things I've ever witnessed. So I can only imagine for you as well, absolutely.

[Maxime Reynaud]

No, I feel like our people bought in so much into the Olympics. I mean, it went from every single sport, but definitely making up that final. And I believe the girls did go to the final as well. So it was. It was an unbelievable run. And I also love the fact that our team had a pretty good mix of, you know, older veteran guys and younger guys that now are going to have a shot to take over over the next couple of years. So it's a heartbreak, but I do feel like you need this to bounce back and have the motivation to. To go all the way. 20, 20, 32. So, you know, it's. It's a necessary step, I feel like.

[Brian Windhorst]

So. Yeah. So how old were you when you met Victor?

[Maxime Reynaud]

I want to say the very first time we met, we're probably 11 or

[Brian Windhorst]

12. Who was taller at that time because you had to be pretty tall.

[Vince Goodwill]

Actually.

[Maxime Reynaud]

We're probably the very same height the first time, but very quickly. He grew fast. When we were in Montreal, we probably had the tallest 2, 3 zone in the history. I mean, you have 3, 7 footer

[Vince Goodwill]

on the back line.

[Maxime Reynaud]

It was absolutely ridiculous. But we met back then, and then we started playing with each other. Under 16, European Championship, played against each other in some national championship before that. And then eventually I joined military. So that's really when we got to connect. And now in the NBA as competitors, one against each other.

[Brian Windhorst]

Yeah. And I think people loved it when. I don't know what kind of went minor viral where. I don't know if it was video or photo. I can't remember where you guys playing chess against each other. We know Victor's really into chess. Did you guys play chess when you were teenagers or was that. Is that a new thing that you guys play against each other?

[Maxime Reynaud]

I've been. I've been playing for a little bit. I feel like he's. He's been picking up things all his life. He's pretty curious. But definitely, I mean, lately it's been something that, you know, has been kind of growing the basketball community somehow. And so, yeah, we. We had the opportunity to play each other. I want to say it was last summer or two summers ago.

[Brian Windhorst]

Yeah. And I will just say, like you know, I'm sure you had some of the same coaches that Victor had and like he was, I learned from talking to, you know, his coaches growing up. He was very headstrong, very headstrong young man like you. You really, you know, I mean, he was very motivated to get better, but he was very headstrong. Like he, you know, they couldn't get him to stop shooting threes, for example. So that's why people say in the NBA Victor shoots too many threes. I'm like, well, they've been telling him that since he was 12. So good luck. Good luck.

[Maxime Reynaud]

It's funny you say this because earlier you were mentioning how so many French young players are coming into the league. Right. I do feel like one of the things about us that very quickly we're being exposed to like the professional level and with that come a certain mindset. And obviously you have a competitive mindset and you also have this development and performance. And I feel like sometime we might, you know, pick one in favor of the other or whatever. But I do feel like growing up, especially Vic, but all of these guys really took to heart the fact that yeah, we'll be competing and we'll be acting like pros very early on, but at the same time we're going to keep developing and we cannot just, just completely erase one part of the game which is either maybe, I don't know, shooting, handling the ball, rebounding, whatever it may be. And so I think that's also one of the key to the success lately.

[Brian Windhorst]

That's how you play, right? I mean, you, you play, you play multi positional. I mean, I guess you're, you know, you, you know, you're, you shoot from the outside, you, you know, you move around. I mean, you're, you know, I mean, certainly you can see some of the same development system with the way, the way you play. And you know, I think that's kind of the modern era, right? Like, that's kind of how they, if teams or kids have played in Europe for years and now it's sort of become more of a thing in the NBA. Like you can't, if you come into the NBA now and you can't shoot or you can't handle the ball, you better be like an incredible rebounder or incredible basket defender because that's the, that's kind of been the European way for a long time and now it's the NBA way. And I think that's probably why, one of the reasons why you're in the NBA in general.

[Maxime Reynaud]

Yeah, I mean, I think you're right. I do believe there are always one or two skills that you're going to be really good at, and you're going to, you know, make your money off, and that's. That's where they. They. They wait for you. But at the same time, like, you need to have a bare. Bare minimum in every other area, whether it is guarding, shooting, being able to pass, all that kind of stuff. So you're completely right. I also feel like lately the. The NBA kind of has shifted towards a, you know, like. Kind of like a prototype, like a 6, 7, 6, 8 wing type of guy that can, you know, handle it, shoot it, and kind of play every possession, as you just mentioned. So you got to be able to. To. To do that, too, if you want to. If you want to stay there, the game evolves, and you have to be able to match those expectations.

[Brian Windhorst]

What? Did you have a welcome? Because I think most rookies have this. Did you have a welcome to the NBA moment where you got hit with a pick or somebody hit you with an elbow especially? Look, let's just be honest. As a European, some guys feel okay

[Maxime Reynaud]

when you had Zambia moment. This is Russell Westbrook dropping this off on my locker.

[Brian Windhorst]

Spider man backpack.

[Maxime Reynaud]

Spider man backpack that I have to carry everywhere, but could have been worse.

[Brian Windhorst]

I've seen worse than Spider Man.

[Maxime Reynaud]

I think I got. I got the better one out of Nick, and I. I think Nick got some, like, My Little Pony. Very Pink Clifford.

[Brian Windhorst]

Yeah, the other rookie.

[Maxime Reynaud]

Yeah, I didn't get it too bad,

[Brian Windhorst]

but you got Spider man in my little. Hey, you know what? In all honesty, if, like, Russ decided that you got Spider man and Nick Clifford got My Little Pony, like, that's almost kind of like a little silent, like, you're okay, kid.

[Maxime Reynaud]

Exactly. I mean, you got to know your place, right? Like, you get off the bus, you pick up his stuff, you. You bring the suitcase back to his room, and then. And, you know, whatever he needs. It's Russ. We got to make sure he's all good. So I've learned to, you know, being a public servant, you know, like, helping the team out. We have a lot of vets. Him, Demar, Zach, Malik, Damas, everybody. So, yeah, you learn your role pretty fast.

[Brian Windhorst]

It is a thing, though, that I think that some NBA players, sometimes they vocalize it, sometimes they don't. They feel a certain way about European players, despite the fact that European players are completely, like, dominating some of the awards and stuff. Like, like, you know, there's certain perceptions and, you know, did you Ever feel that, that, like, you know, you don't have to say it, but you know, if you don't want to. But, like, you know, guys talk trash about. Even though you've been in the US for years, like, talk trash about you as a, as a, as a someone who's French.

[Maxime Reynaud]

Well, honestly, I love it when they do because they talk trash and they think you're going to be terrible, and then it just opens up the game even more for you, you know? And at the end of the day, I understand if you want to be very, you know, nationalistic and like, hey, us is the best, but look, if we're giving you buckets right now, like, you better lock in because this is not going to help your case. So, yeah, definitely. People are talking a lot of trash. But, I mean, I don't know, you just said earlier, like, I feel like my season has been going pretty well individually, so lately not many people have been talking. Talking trash.

[Vince Goodwill]

Yeah.

[Brian Windhorst]

Yeah. Do you feel like you're. You're starting to show up on the, on the scouting report? Like, you had a game recently where I think you had, like, 28 points and you had another game where you had 15 rebounds. Like, you know, look, let's. Let's just be honest. The Kings are not a team that teams, you know, are gearing up for right now, but obviously you're, you know, you've had a bunch of big games. Do you feel like that maybe as you've made the second or third trip through the league, that, that people are figuring out who you are?

[Maxime Reynaud]

Yeah, definitely. I mean, I love to play around that, you know, pocket area. So all of a sudden, after you have two, like, back to back 30 point game, like the third game you come in, there's like four people in the paint. As soon as you catch it, it's like, okay, like, I have to be able to, to work around that same thing at the end a. Like a 20, 20 point game, 28, 19, 20, 20, whatever, against New Orleans the very next night. I've never seen people box me out

[Vince Goodwill]

that hard, you know?

[Maxime Reynaud]

Okay, yeah, you have to adjust to it. But at the same time, I feel like it's a tremendous sign of respect. Like, it means that you've been successful at doing what you're doing for the past, you know, couple of weeks, you've showed your worth and, and now they take you more seriously. And that's when you have to be able to, you know, go to some counters, be able to expand your game a little bit, and that's what I've been talking about with Russ, Demar and Malik. Like, you got to be able to add something. You know, I really like my little floater. A little push on in the paint and once the paint gets crowded, I got to be able to do something else. So that's, that's what we'll be working on over the off season.

[Brian Windhorst]

Well, Max, thank you so much for your time. Listen, remember the name Max Reynaud. You will know it whether you want to know it or not. One of the reasons I wanted to highlight him and he will be on my all rookie team. So we'll see. Hopefully you are honored. That way I know it won't matter. You've, you've had a great year. So I look forward to talking to you more. I look forward to talking to you after playoff games in the future, Max.

[Maxime Reynaud]

I appreciate it. I look forward to it, too.

[Brian Windhorst]

All right, have a good summer. And I'm going to have to hope that the French win the silver again in 28. Sorry, have to be an American.

[Maxime Reynaud]

That's where you and I are going to have.

[Brian Windhorst]

All right, thanks. Take care. All right, so that was Max Reynaud and enjoyed that conversation with him, learning a little bit about him. So thank you so much for listening and watching Hoop Collective. Thanks to Jackson and Tucker who put this this together. Thanks earlier to Slater and Vince Goodwill and we'll be talking to you next week.

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