← Brian Windhorst & The Hoop Collective
Brian Windhorst & The Hoop Collective
Tatum Return Make Boston Favorites? Wemby Passion Great For NBA + SGA’s Elite Scoring
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Hoop Collective: Tatum Return Make Boston Favorites? Wemby Passion Great For NBA + SGA’s Elite Scoring
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- [00:01]
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- [00:27]
Tim Bontemps
Hello and welcome to the Hoop Collective podcast. We talk about the NBA, which we're doing on Sunday evening. Joining us from San Jose, California, where he's out seeing some family, Tim Bontemps.
- [00:38]
Brian
Hello, everybody.
- [00:40]
Tim Bontemps
Join us from Dallas, Texas, where he'll be for a few more minutes before he flies off to Oklahoma City tonight for Monday's game against the Thunder and Nuggets is band McMahon.
- [00:51]
Band McMahon
Howdy, partners.
- [00:52]
Tim Bontemps
76 degrees in Omaha today. I bet the tiki could be pretty nice.
- [00:57]
Band McMahon
Well, taken the last flight out tonight and I got get up on Tuesday morning, so I'll have to, you know,
- [01:05]
Tim Bontemps
tough decisions, wave as I walk by. Okay, fy, we did this podcast in two parts to accommodate various things. So the back half of it'll be from later. But the reason we waited to do this is because we really wanted to watch the two afternoon games that were on abc. Starting off with the Celtics and Jayson Tatum going into Cleveland. Um, it was Donovan Mitchell returned for the Cavs. Jared Allen was out with knee bruise. He banged knees the other night. I thought he might be back by today because he had four day, four days off, but he wasn't ready. But that's not here nor there, guys. I really didn't get to see Tatum play that much on Friday because I was traveling. Today was the first time I got to watch him live. And so I settled in for that first quarter and Bottem's he scored 12 points in the first quarter, and I was like, oh, okay. And I mean, maybe if you, like, used a magnifying glass and knew some of the way the defensive assignments and stuff were, maybe you could have argued that he was a little bit rusty. Maybe the Celtics would argue timing or whatever. And he didn't have a quote unquote great overall game. He ended up just six of 16. But considering the guy is coming off of an Achilles, my gosh, did he look pretty good. And the Celtics with a easy win in Cleveland. Cleveland's one of the hottest teams in the league. They just smacked the Pistons at home a couple of days ago. Bontemps. I'm not overreacting here to one game because I would not overreact if he looked terrible. But if you are A Celtics fan, frankly, if you're a contender in the Eastern Conference, Jayson Tatum early returns. Man looks pretty good on that leg.
- [02:48]
Brian
Yeah, I mean, look, in Friday's game, obviously we haven't talked about either one of these games. He was awfully rusty at the beginning. I think he missed his first five or six shots. He was clearly trying not to force it. He threw a bunch of passes early, got some assists, eventually hit, got a tip dunk late in the first half, then hit a three right after that, got himself going, ended up, I think he had like 17, 10 and 7. But it was a reminder that, yes, like today he went 6 for 16 today. He didn't shoot the ball awesome on Friday. But the reason we have talked about the impact Tatum can have and why I've kept saying if he could come back at anything resembling remotely what he was before, I think they're the best team is because of all this other stuff. He is probably, if not their best rebounder that Nimus Keita has emerged. He's their second best rebounder. He's a really good help defender, he's a good passer, he's a really good shooter. So teams are going to be focused on him. He can create offense, he can isolate and draw the defense and kick it around to guys like he. He just his presence on the court alone is going to attract so much attention from the opposition and he's going to be able to do so many things to help out defensively that he doesn't have to come back and immediately be first team RBA Jason Tatum to have a big impact. And you saw in these two games he isn't first team RBA Jason Tatum today, but he's immediately an effective NBA player. And remember, no offense to Baylor Shireman and Ugo Gonzalez and Jordan Walsh. By the way, Baylor Scheiman had a very nice game again today, very nice against the Cavs.
- [04:17]
Tim Bontemps
Arguably one of the best game, probably the best game of his NBA career considered.
- [04:20]
Brian
We'll get to that shortly. But the reminder is like for all this talk, which I think has been silly from the beginning at all, Jason Tatum could mess up the Celtics. Like he's taking minutes away from hard playing role players like those guys have all had a nice impact, but he's stepping back in and it's only going to be an additive. And through these first two games, I think you can only call it an unqualified success to see him play the way he is, moving the way he is. Like, you know, I wouldn't say he's exactly a mid season for him because he's a little rusty with the shot and stuff. But you couldn't ask for anything better if you're a Celtics fan. And I think it, to me this has reestablished Boston as the clear favorites in the east. If, if he's able to stay on the court. Cause I mean it just, they've just leveled up dramatically having him back out there.
- [05:06]
Band McMahon
Yeah, I agree with that. Especially as we speak. I look up and the pistons are down 20 plus to the Miami Heat late in the first half. The Pistons have been, you know, they've been struggling a bit lately, but I thought Tatum's return was awesome. And yeah, he missed the first six shots. You know, one of those was a great move, an uncontested dunk that he front rimmed. It's like, ooh. But yeah, probably a little bit of jittery, a little bit rusty. But 12 rebounds, seven assists. He's moving well. That's the main like 10 months off in Achilles. He's moving well. He doesn't look, he doesn't look like a diminished athlete. Then today comes out and after the first quarter like is this guy going to go for 30 something in the second game back and so he, he's not, you know, just like the first game, you know, he had a, he a burst of big time scoring. Not hadn't quite been able to put a whole game together, but you see that he did. He came through big time for him. Closing this one out after this, after the Cavs made a run, had a nice drive for a layup and then hit a wide open three on the backside. And you know that wide open three on the backside. Like he can do that. And that was because Peyton Pritchard was whooping the Cavs butt so much they threw two on Peyton Pritchard. Get off it. Takeda Kata swings it over to Jason Tatum wide open. But there's not a need for Tatum to put a cape on. He doesn't have to come back and be a superhero. He can just fit in and enhance what they have going because they established themselves as a, as a great team this year without him and without all the guys that they lost.
- [06:36]
Tim Bontemps
Look, and this is why I really have very small patience for the Tatum Brown. Discussion number one. They're a championship duo. That's been proven. Secondly, the Celtics are a system team. Now obviously there are going to be sections of games where they may lean into a player or not. But the Celtics, very much by design, very much by Joe Missoula's hand or a system team. And so. And the system is the system. And Jayson Tatum, the system was built around him. He will just move in and the system will go on. You know, like, you know there's certain things depending on their personnel, they may do a little differently in terms of game planning.
- [07:13]
Brian
But I want a system built on two way wing play, right.
- [07:16]
Band McMahon
And between Derek White, six, eight really skilled one, right?
- [07:20]
Brian
Well, between Derrick White, Jason Tatum and Jaylen Brown there might not. There's, I mean you could maybe argue a couple other teams but from two to four there's hardly if any teams in the league that can match the two way ability to dribble, pass, shoot and defend at those three guys.
- [07:35]
Tim Bontemps
That's why the Knicks invested crazy amounts of assets into getting an anobian bridges because they were trying to deal with that two way wing dollar and those
- [07:44]
Brian
guys aren't nearly on the same level.
- [07:46]
Band McMahon
And the Tatum versus Brown thing, it is, it's a tired discussion. It's a silly discussion. It's something to their credit they did not let tear them apart. They won a championship together. They have the potential to win more championships together. Brown is, you know, they're both on supermax contracts. Like there's no, there's no reason. It's like it doesn't have to be one his team or his team. It's, it can be their team. That's okay. And you know, Tatum comes back. I'm not going to say he has nothing to prove because obviously these guys are all super competitive. But if Jason Tatum is a shell of himself for the rest of his career, which clearly he's not, but if he was, he'd still be a Hall of Famer. He's a five time all NBA selection. He's a champion, you know, he's a gold medalist.
- [08:30]
Tim Bontemps
Two time gold medalist.
- [08:31]
Brian
Well, let's to, to spin ahead to the game today a little bit. I wanted to ask you Brian, as the, the leader of Cav's corner, the takeaway I had from this game watching it was the Cavs could do nothing to bother the Celtics the entire game. Like even some of these shots that look kind of difficult that like Peyton Pritchard would take in the fourth quarter or like Jaylen Brown would take, these guys could get to their spots wherever they wanted and they weren't bothered. And they, they got seemingly a wide open three almost every trip. They worked the clock down like 16, 18, 20 seconds. Most trips got a wide open shot almost every trip. I was just really, I mean I guess I wasn't stunned because we have had questions about the Cavs ability to guard on the perimeter the whole time. But what was your takeaway on the Cavs today? I was more against these guys as
- [09:19]
Tim Bontemps
I was watching the game. I was more affected by their struggles against the Celtics defense. And this is a Cavs team that has been the number one or number two offense efficient wise since mid January. And you know they've been routinely putting up power numbers particularly generating lots of open threes. And you know the Celtics were in their full switch operation and the Cavs really struggled to get good looks in this game. They early in the game were attacking their, their game plan was clearly to attack Sam Houser and yeah, you know, you know Evan Mobley actually had a pretty good game offensively and they were able to get switches and attack Hauser and you know, Hauser got shown up a couple of times but Hauser hit five threes and you know he, you know, he certainly made up for it at the other end. And when they weren't attacking Hauser, they weren't able to dent anything. And the bench play, I mean the Cavs invested a lot in this season to improve their bench and Max Strust is now working out with their G league team and so he, there's a return. I don't know what you're going to expect from him but you know that, that their, their lineup is going to potentially even improve a little bit. But you know the Schroeder and Keone Ellis trades were meant to improve their bench. And also, you know, with Harden being in the starting lineup, replacing a guy who's missed a lot of the season, Darius Garland, that improves the bench. It moves Jalen Tyson to the bench. The bench was, you know, and this, you know, you wouldn't necessarily see this repeatedly in a four game series or in a seven game series but you know, I think the bench scoring was 41 to 13. Baylor Shireman was 16 and 10, Peyton Pritchard at 18, 18 and 7.
- [10:58]
Band McMahon
Yeah, two guys single handedly, two reserves single handedly outscored the Cavs bench. And you know my takeaway from this game, one man. For a guy 10 months off on Achilles, Tatum looks amazing and can't wait to see how he looks when he's had a month plus to ramp up for the playoffs. They, you know, Joe Mazzulla said no men's restriction. Clearly it's about 27. That's what he's played in both games. So Tatum looks awesome and I would imagine it's only going to get better.
- [11:28]
Tim Bontemps
By the way, quick aside, if there's a minute restriction, shouldn't you have to say that there's a minute restriction? Like, I mean. Well, I mean, I don't want to
- [11:35]
Brian
get in, but I was pretty confident, you know, again, when Joe Missoula declared there was a minute restriction on Friday to McMahon's point, I was pretty confident he wasn't playing 45.
- [11:45]
Band McMahon
Did anybody think he was coming back playing 35? I mean, I hear what you're saying,
- [11:49]
Tim Bontemps
but that's transparency of on wagering. Like either you're going to do it or you're not.
- [11:54]
Band McMahon
If anybody was betting that Jayson Tatum's going to have a full 35 minute
- [11:58]
Tim Bontemps
work, it has more to do with the fact that if you announced there's no minute restriction and we know that there is, but that's a story.
- [12:05]
Brian
Yeah, I'm with you.
- [12:06]
Tim Bontemps
I'm not going down that path. I'm not going down that path.
- [12:08]
Brian
I agree with you.
- [12:09]
Band McMahon
I'm not sure the general NBA fan realizes just what a stud Peyton Pritchard has become. I know he won sixth man of
- [12:18]
Brian
the year last year.
- [12:19]
Band McMahon
Bond Timps, he made your all contract team and it's amazing. This guy's making, you know, about 8 mil the next two seasons.
- [12:26]
Tim Bontemps
By the way. When they gave him that contract, we all thought we were like seriously that much for Peyton Pritchard.
- [12:30]
Band McMahon
Like we what a deal.
- [12:32]
Brian
I did not at the time.
- [12:33]
Tim Bontemps
Well, come on.
- [12:35]
Brian
But what I would, what I would say that's more interesting than that is in the middle of his third season, which I believe is Joe Missoula's first season, Peyton Pritchard was trying to leave like he wasn't playing. He was ready to be traded. He wasn't happy. Like he was not thrilled in Boston and for things to go from where they were at that point when he was barely in the rotation to this guy that became a lock rotation player hitting all these half court shots when they went on to win the title. Now like you said, McMahon, he's not one of the best value contracts in the league. If he had played more games off the bench, he'd be a shoe in to win six man again this year. Now he's back off the bench destroying for them. And you know, like you, like I said earlier at the end of the game, he comes in in the fourth quarter and he's just getting to his spots in the mid range. Jalen Tyson, you know, solid defender, like couldn't do anything to stop him he's just getting whatever look he wants, you know, banging in huge threes late, like his development into this critical piece for them, it's a, it's a testament to. Like you said, Brian, the system for the Celtics, I, I think is even less about the way they play and it's their player development system. They have an unbelievable player development system when you look at their roster. Peyton PR Prichard comes out of that as a late first round pick. Jordan Walsh, Baylor Shireman, late first round pick.
- [13:52]
Tim Bontemps
It's not even like skilled. I mean, skill development, yes, but like part of the biggest thing we talked of people in Boston when they talk about Pritchard, the guy, they didn't teach the guy to shoot. The guy's been an elite shooter since he was a kid. They gave him his confidence back. His confidence had gotten shaken. Joe Mazdula came in and with him and his staff said, peyton, we're going to get your confidence back. And certainly you look at him now and you say, well, of course this guy has confidence. Well, guess what? His confidence a couple years ago was vastly reduced. And that's what the, the, some of the basis of his recovery is.
- [14:22]
Band McMahon
But, and he's a guy who. This is he, you know, 26, 27. Now he's 28. This is a guy making major leaps at that point in his career. And you know, I mentioned the two Tatum buckets, the two biggest buckets of the game. You know, Bontemps alluded to their Peyton Pritchard. Peyton Pritchard. ISO buckets. After the Cavs trim the lead to single digits with like four minutes left, do you know who the most efficient volume ISO score is in the NBA this season?
- [14:50]
Brian
I would guess it's Peyton Pritchard.
- [14:52]
Band McMahon
It is Peyton Pritchard. One going into today, 1.23 points per ISO possession. Shay's 1.17, Lucas 1.11. Those are elite, elite numbers. 1.23.
- [15:05]
Tim Bontemps
That's crazy. Yeah. And by the way, they.
- [15:07]
Band McMahon
And he looks like he should be playing in my pickup games.
- [15:09]
Tim Bontemps
And Missoula has zero, obviously zero percent qualms calling his number when he needs a basketball.
- [15:15]
Brian
By the way, in a game where he didn't shoot, he was only 27 from the field. Nimus Cato had 11 rebounds and was plus 13 and was again a monster inside. And it's another guy that has been a huge feather in the cap of their development system, bringing him along the last couple years. And he's just stepped in as a starting center and been really, really good all year.
- [15:34]
Tim Bontemps
By the way, we'll just do a real drive by. You mentioned that the pistons are down 20 at the half the Heat. I have no idea what will happen in the second half of that game. We're not going to wait for it. But I'm just telling you if the Heat close it out and they are at home and the Heat have been very good at home this year, that'd be five straight wins for Miami. And they went up to Charlotte on Thursday or Friday ended the Hornets two of those wins are against Brooklyn. But nonetheless if they. And Kate Cunningham is back playing in this game. He missed the game the other night but he, you know Cunningham and Duran are starting in this game.
- [16:07]
Brian
Between the second half of the Nets Pistons game on Saturday and when the nets outscored them 61 to 43 came from I think 24 down and one. And the first half of this game against the Pistons they've now been outscored BY I believe 40 points in 48 minutes which is not great.
- [16:25]
Band McMahon
I'm not going to, I mean K didn't play against the dad so I'm not going to overreact too much. But they're definitely in a, in a mini rut.
- [16:31]
Tim Bontemps
And by the way, this Heat, this Heat winning streak is happening with Norman
- [16:34]
Band McMahon
Powell out another one of the best ISO scorers in the league.
- [16:37]
Tim Bontemps
We'll talk more about them later. I don't want to talk about because I feel like Jackson's gonna have to cut this out if they piss some big second half comeback. So anyway, before we move to the what we recorded earlier, I do want to talk about the, the Lakers. So that was a excellent win for the Celtics today. Real you know, warning I think to the league. Really strong performance by the Lakers, particularly defensively today against the Knicks at home, New York just scores 97 points. The Lakers led this from start to finish. I think their lead was a 276 at one point. LeBron was a late scratch or maybe not a late scratch. He was questionable coming in but he was a scratch with left foot thing that he sometimes misses games with. I don't need to give like treetop analysis here like but you know the data shows that when LeBron plays when one of the three is out, they tend to be a little better defensively. It's not an, it's not a shot at anybody directly but when Luka and and Austin Reaves are together this year, their lineup data says that they're about seven points plus seven over 100 possessions. And when they all three play together, they're in the negative. So it's, you know, there could be a whole bunch of different reasons why.
- [17:52]
Brian
Well, let's, let's just be honest. The reason those three guys don't fit together is none of them at this point play much defense and you can sort of get away with having two guys who aren't going to guard. It's hard. It's hard with two, it's almost impossible with three. And that, I mean that's the biggest problem they have. They're trying to fit all of those guys out there at the same time and it, it's hard. Take any of them off the court, you're probably going to have more balance because you're going to have two ball dominant guys and then three guys around him who are going to more likely get into rocks.
- [18:23]
Tim Bontemps
So they start Hachimura and Smart, who, you know, Marcus Smart was 1 of 10 shooting today, but he was plus 27. So what does that tell you about what happened when out, when he was out there and you know, allows him to, you know, allows him to play Vanderbilt, who's a better defender in this particular game? Luke Kennard hit three. Three. So you got a basket, you got a floor stretcher out there when they divvy up those minutes. And again, it's not an analysis of LeBron's A player obviously or Austin Reeves is a player.
- [18:51]
Band McMahon
It's a, it's an analysis of the fit of the roster and yeah, you know, the data, ball baller data here, like the little lineup combinations, Reaves and Luka without LeBron this year. I don't know if this includes today or not, but it's a plus 16.9 net rating in 329 minutes with all three of them together. It's plus 1.5 and 293.
- [19:13]
Tim Bontemps
It's a plus by the way. It's been in the negative for a big punk.
- [19:17]
Band McMahon
Yeah, and they're significantly worse on both ends of the floor when they're all three together. And again, I think LeBron can go somewhere and give a team a boost. I just think the fit of the Lakers and that's why like I still think the Lakers can build a contender around Luke and Austin Reeds if they add, if they use the financial flexibility from LeBron leaving and add like a quality 3 and D wing and a real rim protector. Aiden played well today, but a guy you can count on on a night in, night out basis, I think, I don't think the Lakers are just, you know, miles and miles and Miles away from being a real factor in terms of contention. I just don't think it's happening with
- [19:55]
Brian
LeBron on the roster.
- [19:56]
Tim Bontemps
The Knicks had a miserable shooting day today. They were 8 of 34 on 3.
- [20:00]
Band McMahon
I mean LA afternoon games especially savings time.
- [20:05]
Brian
Just like New York afternoon games. They had one against the spurs last week. This is oldest time.
- [20:10]
Tim Bontemps
Yeah. So, I mean, I don't want to overreact, but it's a really nice winning. They know the Lakers are, you know, they've been playing 500 or worse basketball for the last, you know, couple weeks and you're starting to look behind you at that play in situation. And so to get a win like
- [20:24]
Brian
this, well, and again, it's worth pointing out the Rockets and Wolves and the Nuggets continue to have brutal losses. The Nuggets have all these injuries. We talked about that later on in the pod, so we'll leave that. But as of right now, the Lakers are a game back of Minnesota, who they host on Tuesday and they're a game back of Houston. Like, they're like. Do I think the Lakers are one of the three best teams in the Western Conference? No, I do not. I think they have real flaws. I think they'd probably lose to most of these teams in a playoff series. However, they've won all these clutch games. They put themselves in a position now where if they can make a push downstretch here, like they could get to third very easily. Like the Rockets and Wolves just keep checking away these games.
- [21:05]
Tim Bontemps
And third place, third, the three seed in the west is a remarkable place because you, you obviously are on the opposite side of the bracket as the Thunder and you get home court in the first round and then I don't know who's going to win. But you know, you get a young spurs team in the second round, like the spurs would be favored in that series, but you know, it's better than playing the Thunder in the second round. So if you're looking, if you're going to create a scenario in which the Lakers are going to make a playoff run and get to the conference finals, that's it. The first bullet point is you get the three seed. Before we hand it over to ourselves from earlier, I just point out. Did you see that in the. I think it was in the third quarter of this game that Luca gave the money sign.
- [21:47]
Band McMahon
Yeah. When they didn't call the charge, he
- [21:49]
Tim Bontemps
had turned the ball over. It was, it could have been called.
- [21:52]
Band McMahon
I mean, I mean, I thought it was a charge. Yeah, but like, dude, you're up. I think they're up. May even been double figures at the time. Like, come on, man. And he's been fined for that before.
- [22:03]
Tim Bontemps
So he gets knocked to the floor. He's laying on the ground under the basket. He looks over at the official like, seriously, you're not going to call this? He gives the money set. And I will say this, he's probably going to get fined for that. He's, as you mentioned, he's been fined before. You know, Rudy Gobert got fined the second time Rudy got fined. He got fined 100 GS. I don't know if it'll be that bad, but like, had the referee seen
- [22:22]
Band McMahon
it would have been a 16th tee.
- [22:24]
Brian
It might have been technical. Not might have. He would have seen it.
- [22:29]
Tim Bontemps
Yes. And so what I would say is it could be worse. Whatever fine he might get. He could have gotten a tech. So. And that would have been much more expensive and also would have been missed a game.
- [22:41]
Band McMahon
So.
- [22:41]
Tim Bontemps
So.
- [22:41]
Brian
And would have missed this game against again, would have missed this game against the Wolves on Tuesday, which is a massively important game for them.
- [22:48]
Tim Bontemps
Yes. Which I'm hoping to attend.
- [22:49]
Band McMahon
Ooh, windy in the house.
- [22:51]
Tim Bontemps
All right, we shall now pass it to ourselves earlier today when we are younger, more naive and now we're older and wiser. So we go to our younger selves from earlier today.
- [23:02]
Band McMahon
More Hoop Collective podcast after this.
- [23:06]
Tim Bontemps
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- [23:43]
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- [25:38]
Tim Bontemps
So we had what I thought was one of the more memorable parts of the regular season with a couple of spurs games last week and this it happened at the end of the week so I'm not sure how it hit the news cycle, but the spurs had back to back victories. They had just come home from their rodeo trip and they had a real quality win over the Pistons. The Pistons matchup with the spurs is not a convenient one for Detroit because the perimeter pressure they can put on Cade Cunningham and the rim defense with Victor is, it's a tough, it's a tough one. If that ends up being the finals, which it's on the board, I would like the spurs in that matchup which we can talk about in a second. However, they, they finally have a little bit of a respite and they come back and they play the Clippers and you could just tell in this game that there was a bit of an energy crash. Plus Brook Lopez had an awesome game for the Clipper.
- [26:34]
Band McMahon
Clippers actually was raining them. He, he was, he was making Wimby guard him out there.
- [26:39]
Tim Bontemps
I'm not sure if it was his best game of the year, but it was Certainly up there. You know, Kawhi, by the way, as a quick aside, you know, on Monday, Shay is going to Wright, McMahon, he's going to potentially tie the record for Will Chamberlain.
- [26:51]
Band McMahon
Yeah, he's tying him Monday. Breaking it in the next game.
- [26:55]
Tim Bontemps
I assume he's breaking it. We're going to see if he can do it, but it's.
- [26:58]
Band McMahon
He's done it. 125s or 124, was it 125 straight now? I'm pretty sure 126 and 127 are on the horizon, by the way. All right, he did it. He did it against the, he extended against the Magic when he strained his AB in the first half. I'm pretty sure he's going to get that record.
- [27:13]
Tim Bontemps
That's true. All right, Anyway, so it's 125, is it right now?
- [27:17]
Band McMahon
Yes.
- [27:17]
Tim Bontemps
Kawhi is at 41, so.
- [27:21]
Band McMahon
And again, more than anything, that means that Kawhi is finished 41 consecutive games that he's played. You know, there hasn't been an early exit.
- [27:29]
Tim Bontemps
Kawhi had a good game that night and Jordan Miller, who's been there, sort of G league discovery, had a good game that night. So anyway, the Clippers in San Antonio build a 25 point lead and you know, the spurs had been through a number of real tough games. You know, the Clippers actually been playing relatively well, all things considered in the wake of the trades. They've been putting up some decent, some decent, some decent numbers. Anyway, so what did it get to McMahon, did it get to 25?
- [28:00]
Band McMahon
It was, it was 75 to 50 at one point.
- [28:02]
Tim Bontemps
Okay, that's clean. And then the spurs walk them down and you know, we routinely see big comebacks. But 25, that's pushing in a second half, 25 point comeback.
- [28:14]
Band McMahon
That's 25 in the second half of a game. That's the second half of a back to back for a team that has its MVP candidate on a tight minutes restriction because they ramped his minutes up the night before. Victor played 39 the night before, so they, you know, they weren't going to run his minutes high. That 39 is the most, second most of the season. And so I, you know, they weren't playing in more than 20, 22 minutes. So yeah, it was, it was a pretty unlikely comeback given all those things, even though they were at home.
- [28:42]
Tim Bontemps
Right. So they walk them down and then there's this play, I don't know if you want to describe this inbounds play late in the game, man.
- [28:53]
Brian
Unbelievable thing.
- [28:55]
Band McMahon
Yeah. Ty Lue drew up an. An awesome play where they had Victor guarding Derrick Jones Jr. In the second half. I think a lot of that's because Lopez was so effective in the first half. They wanted him a guy they were more comfortable sagging off of. Anyways, they set a back screen on Victor. This is out on the. The left wing, pretty high up out on the left wing. I forgot who set the screen, but a great screen. And the play is a back screen on Victor Jones. Blob over the top. And if you pause it at the right time, Jones is in position to launch, and Wimby is up above the elbow. I mean, it's. He's, you know, 15, maybe 20ft away. And Batum looked at it and, yeah,
- [29:41]
Tim Bontemps
Nico Batum is inbounding the ball from the side out of bounds.
- [29:45]
Band McMahon
Yeah.
- [29:45]
Tim Bontemps
Batum basically right next to the Clipper bench, Right?
- [29:48]
Band McMahon
Yeah, yep. And.
- [29:49]
Brian
But guy was very familiar with Victor Omanyama's skills as fellow Frenchman. Yes.
- [29:54]
Band McMahon
And he. He didn't go to it. And, you know, after the game, Ty Lue said, you know, Nico thought Victor was playing in between. In other words, he thought Victor was going to be able to get to it.
- [30:06]
Tim Bontemps
Well, not only that, he stepped over the line.
- [30:09]
Band McMahon
Well, no. Then he passes it in to Lopez, and Lopez is like, this wasn't the play. And Lopez passed right back to Batum. Batum hadn't gotten in bounds yet.
- [30:19]
Tim Bontemps
So the point of this is a critical turnover. The point of this is Ty Lue draws up a play that was probably going to work, and Victor Wembanyama successfully defended. I want you. I want to be clear. Victor Wembanyama successfully defended the rim from 20ft away from the rim.
- [30:38]
Band McMahon
What I would say is the threat of Victor Wembanyama successfully intimidated Nico Batumin and not try.
- [30:48]
Tim Bontemps
However you want to qualify it. That's defending the rim.
- [30:50]
Brian
Sure.
- [30:51]
Band McMahon
Yeah. Just. Just his presence on the floor.
- [30:54]
Tim Bontemps
And as we were talking about this on our. On our group chat, you even said he goes, not only did he defend the rim from 20ft away, he was getting screaked.
- [31:03]
Band McMahon
Yeah.
- [31:03]
Tim Bontemps
He was getting screened.
- [31:05]
Band McMahon
And again, Batum. I'm sure when Batum watched that film, he was like, oh, man. But. But Wemb.
- [31:10]
Brian
Understandable reaction.
- [31:12]
Band McMahon
Yeah. Wendy is such a dominant presence that he forces guys into being so hesitant that a lot of times hesitancy is the right decision. In this case, it wasn't.
- [31:25]
Tim Bontemps
So the Spurs, I can't remember now because it's been four days. I mean, did Did Darren Fox, I think de' Aaron Fox, he was being fourth quarter de' Aaron Fox. I can't remember who to credit some of their offensive plays. Victor had an incredible block at the. Where he blocked one end and then ran the court and finished with a dunk at the other end during the comeback. That is probably a top 10 highlight for him this year in terms of actual eye candy.
- [31:55]
Brian
Paul.
- [31:55]
Band McMahon
I don't know, man. I don't know. There's a lot, there's a lot of competition.
- [31:59]
Tim Bontemps
I know, but that, that, that was nice. Doing it at both ends was pretty special. Yeah, okay, fine, I'll back that off. But whatever it was so, but you, boy, you're, you know, McMahon. I didn't realize this. I'm just now looking at the box score. Dude, he only played 22 minutes.
- [32:15]
Band McMahon
That's what I'm saying. He was on a tight minutes restriction and because again, he played 39 the night before and let me just, let me just. In 60, roughly 61 minutes over two nights, the man scored 65 points, grabbed 26 rebounds, blocked nine shots and hit eight threes and was a plus 30 again. That's 61 minutes over 30 hours. And he was tired and he was emotional. When that final buzz was down the bucket to seal it was he ends up challenging a Kawhi 3. That's very short. And he just leaked out after the challenge. Fox got the rebound, just tossed it up front. And Victor had an emphatic dunk for the dagger and that was the play that sealed it.
- [33:01]
Tim Bontemps
So by the way, so you know what the spurs fans call the Stefan Castle wembanyama, you know, defensive, you know, duo. They call it Area 51 because castle number five, Victor number one, great nickname. You know, it's kind of like the Dorture Chamber, you know, Area 51. Cade was in Area 51 on. Was it Wednesday night.
- [33:27]
Band McMahon
Both times they played.
- [33:28]
Tim Bontemps
Right. The Jackals are the, the nickname for the, the fan group at the Spurs Arena Frostbank center. And obviously the Alien or Wemby. Great, great nicknames associated all with all of him. So anyway, they get this victory and this is, you know, this reaction. Victor is emotional to the point where he's in tears.
- [33:49]
Band McMahon
Would you say there were. I wouldn't say.
- [33:52]
Tim Bontemps
There was some water in his eyes.
- [33:54]
Band McMahon
There was water. There was some water. There were some waterworks for sure. And he was emotional. He was exhausted. You know, not full boo hooing, but certainly some, some, some tears were shed.
- [34:07]
Tim Bontemps
And he, and after the game he said that it was the most emotional 30 hours of basketball of his life. I think that's how he framed it.
- [34:15]
Band McMahon
Yeah, that, that honestly surprised me a little bit. Just because I would imagine some of the, like, you know, playing for the French national team.
- [34:24]
Tim Bontemps
Right.
- [34:24]
Band McMahon
But that, that surprised me when the
- [34:26]
Tim Bontemps
French national team won the quarterfinals and semifinals in Paris, when they were underdogs in both. That was, that was pretty big. But it didn't have the component of this comeback. So it may not, you know, I'm assuming it was very nationalistic, but whatever, I'm not going to hold him to that statement. But, you know, I think some people could use it as maybe a. Use it against him as kind of a sign of weakness.
- [34:49]
Band McMahon
I mean, there will be, there will be nerds on the Internet who do and people trying to be cool on the Internet for sure.
- [34:54]
Tim Bontemps
But this is what I, What I really like about it is that he values competition and winning so much. And this is one of the things that, you know, Bon Temps and I have talked about this for years, about the need to have something to play for and enjoy as a team and a fan base beyond just a championship. Because if you just have the championship as your only goal.
- [35:17]
Band McMahon
Yeah.
- [35:18]
Tim Bontemps
The percentage of fans that are not going to enjoy, the percentage of players. I mean, it's, it's. It's not feasible and you know, what I would call low level ecstasy. And Victor cares so much, and it's kind of like the whole concept of him with the drum. The whole concept.
- [35:36]
Band McMahon
I mean, and the whole Jackals thing.
- [35:38]
Tim Bontemps
Yes. It's to. Let's enjoy this regular season. You know, let's enjoy this regular season. Let's enjoy this process. And, you know, I just remember when I went to a Spurs game during Rook Victor's, I think, his rookie year, and he had a 40, 20 game and they beat the, they beat the, the Knicks in overtime. That was the night that Jalen Brunson had 60. Very memorable that. You know, they give Victor the microphone after the game, and it's a March game. It's right about this time of year, actually, or. Yeah, it was right about mid March. There's. They're not going anywhere that season. Right. And Victor, like, announces to the crowd, I love it here. You know, everything like that. I think he's number one. I think he's being genuine number two. I think that this is something that we, you know, like, he's such a breath of fresh air for the league. And, you know, this is him saying, listen, we're gonna. I'm gonna play in the All Star Game. Like, whether you guys want to or not, I'm gonna play in the All Star Game. I'm gonna introduce this fan section. I'm gonna introduce this post game ritual of us, you know, pounding the drum. I know that that's not a unique idea because the Light the Beam was sort of the beginning of that concept, but. And it's all sort of stolen from European stuff, but, you know, this is him basically saying, like, let's enjoy every sandwich. You know, like, let's, let's, let's, let's. Let's pay attention to Ordinary Time. You guys know I've.
- [36:57]
Band McMahon
Every breakfast taco.
- [36:58]
Tim Bontemps
Yes, I've. I've got this lame concept in my, you know, my philosophy of life, whatever, but, you know, I love Ordinary Time. This is one of my favorite times of the year in the NBA. Ordinary Time. And I know it's lame. You can make fun of me or whatever. This just hits me like, this is the type. It's such a breath of fresh air. And so I'm all for this. I'm not arguing that winning a game in March is more important than winning a game in June, but I am arguing that you can say, listen, what do we have in our lives in San Antonio that's better on a Thursday night in March than watching Victor Wembanyama? And what. Isn't there a value that Victor Wembanyama uplifted an entire city who was, you know, in that game, and then anybody who was watching it out there was like, wow, what an amazing experience is there. Is it not worth something that. That, you know, that you can. You know, this is. This is what I did years ago on Twitter where I was talking about how almost every night in the NBA something amazing happens. And. And this is what Bontemps has been doing this year.
- [37:56]
Band McMahon
You stole that from Wendy.
- [37:58]
Tim Bontemps
No, whatever. But this is what Bontemps has been doing this year. He is basically saying, like, can we not enjoy that on a random Tuesday in January that Jalen Brunson leads a 102 run in the last two minutes to win in. In New York? And, you know, Nikola Jokic has a triple double in the first half. Like, you know, just. Sorry, I could go on and on about this.
- [38:21]
Brian
Well, well, this is. Yeah, this is. This is another reminder that the league is in unbelievable shape going forward with probably the two leading people into the next generation being Victor Wembanyama and Cooper Flagg, two insanely competitive young stars like that. That is a really important thing for the league. And it's the same reason why for the past few months now, I keep banging the drum on the need to change these incentives at the end of the season to where all these games have meaning and to have wins count towards lottery positioning. It all goes back to the same thing where, you know, 0.2% of people at this point know what Ordinary Time is. A kid who went to Catholic school
- [39:04]
Tim Bontemps
who's not even a practicing Catholic, but it's the concept of it.
- [39:08]
Brian
Yes, but it is like. Yeah, of course, again, doesn't know, but it is.
- [39:14]
Band McMahon
I didn't think it was some, like, revolutionary concept.
- [39:16]
Tim Bontemps
Listen, you know what? Let me take a. Let me take a detour, and I'll just tell you. When you're a kid going to Catholic school, you have Advent, which is around Christmas, where you gotta do a bunch of extra stuff. And you have Lent around Easter, which is going on right now. We gotta do a bunch of extra stuff. I didn't like doing the extra stuff.
- [39:33]
Band McMahon
The Ordinary Time, there's all kinds of different rules.
- [39:35]
Tim Bontemps
You had to give up stuff, no meat on certain days, what have you. Okay. The summertime was known in the liturgical calendar as, quote, Ordinary Time.
- [39:46]
Brian
Liturgical, big word.
- [39:48]
Tim Bontemps
Ordinary Time has no clue what that word is. That's literally what it said, like, when I was dragged to church when I was, you know, and it would be, like, you know, mid June, and I just really wanted to get outside and play. You would see on the thing, it would say, welcome to Mass on June 17, 1989, the 16th Sunday at an Ordinary Time. Ordinary Time was great. No extra stuff. It was in. There was the best weather time of the year. I knew when we got, like, when I saw the calendar go and it's now Ordinary Time, I was like, yes, Ordinary Time. I love Ordinary Time. This is my. Sorry, that's the detour. Go ahead.
- [40:27]
Brian
No, it's all good. But it is, you know, right now
- [40:30]
Tim Bontemps
we're in Ordinary Time in the NBA.
- [40:31]
Brian
We are an Ordinary Time in the NBA. And it's. That often leads to a lot of dud nights, especially these last couple months of the season and before the playoffs start. And it's why every person I've talked to, general managers, scouts, coaches, players, anybody, all agrees that anything to make these last couple months of the season not be this interminable slog where you have all these teams taking games off and trying to lose and, you know, manipulating lineups, whatever, you know, it's. It'd be nice if we had a full slate of games every day where we could have Things come out of it like this Clipper spurs game and like the Pistons spurs game where you have two teams competing all the way through. But it was awesome to see, it was awesome to see Victor get that into a game on a Friday night in March. And like I said, the fact that these young stars are so competitive and so into playing for everything every night, I think it's a great, I think it's a great thing for the league going forward. And, and you know, it's, it's another sign of why the spurs are a team to be reckoned with. Even though they have the lack of postseason experience. That would typically mean it's probably going to take a year or two for them to get where they really hope to go. But they're, they're going to try to.
- [41:44]
Tim Bontemps
Yes, people can use this against them and say, well, how are you going to manage the emotions of going through two months? Because that's one thing. Like the playoffs are the exact, you know, antithesis of ordinary time. There is nothing about playoff time that is ordinary. And the, if you get emotional after, you know, two games in 30 hours, how are you going to be when you've gone through a, you know, 13 day seven game, second round war, and it's like, okay, you have 36 hours to prepare for game one of the Western Conference finals. Like, let's go, Victor. Like, you know, and my answer to that is he'll take that challenge. Like, he takes every challenge well.
- [42:23]
Band McMahon
And first of all, there's no such thing as ordinary time with Victor Wembanyama. There is no such thing as ordinary with Victor Wembanyama. This dude is extraordinary with every single step that he takes, every single game that he plays, every tear that he sheds. And I can tell you one place that Victor will not waste a single shred of energy will be on the reaction of people he doesn't know. This is a guy when he lays in bed at night at 9:30 or 9:15, he's got to get to bed by 9:30.
- [42:55]
Tim Bontemps
He's a big proponent of sleep.
- [42:57]
Band McMahon
That's not doing, he's not doing this. He's not scrolling on his phone, seeing what people he has no idea look like think about him at all. He's reading a book, right? And my point is like, hey, you know, if the people that are making fun of he doesn't care, he's not going to see that. He's not going to worry about what some pimple face who, who has a, you know, anime avatar thinks about him. Who cares Right.
- [43:24]
Tim Bontemps
And listen, did I tell you about. Sorry. I'm sorry. Go ahead.
- [43:27]
Band McMahon
No, like, okay, the guy, the guy. And like, you know, Embiid got made fun of and that was a completely different situation. But in B, when he boohooed after the, after the Kawhi. Balance. Balance.
- [43:38]
Tim Bontemps
I would have cried too. Like, I don't know if I would have cried. I would, I would have endeavored not to cry in the, on the court. But you know, but he cares. Yeah.
- [43:47]
Band McMahon
Like, I would much rather have to say, man, that guy looked kind of, kind of nerdy because he was kind of wimpy because he was crying. I'd much rather have a guy who cares enough to shed tears.
- [43:58]
Tim Bontemps
Right. The other thing is a camera that was in the back hallway.
- [44:02]
Band McMahon
Yeah. And whatever. Who cares?
- [44:04]
Brian
Like, the guy cried.
- [44:05]
Band McMahon
Whoopty damn doo.
- [44:05]
Brian
That's not the point.
- [44:06]
Band McMahon
Whoopty damn doo.
- [44:07]
Tim Bontemps
You know, so, you know, I went.
- [44:08]
Band McMahon
The IT department lectures me about all the time. Like toxic masculinity is making fun of a guy for shedding a couple tears.
- [44:16]
Tim Bontemps
I'll bet, I'll bet the guy cares about toxic masculinity.
- [44:20]
Band McMahon
I've heard it a time or two. But again, Victor Wembanyama cares about every game he plays, about every step he takes towards not just towards potentially a championship, but you know what? He, he really truly cares about achieving his potential and understanding that his potential is perhaps unprecedented. I was told by a member of their coaching staff that he thought that the game against the Pistons might have been the best defense performance he'd seen. Like their, their, their guards apparently weren't, weren't awesome defensively in that game. And Wimby just cleaned up so many things and dude, that's one of the best all around games that we've seen this year. The guy had 38, 16 block, five shots, played 30, 39 minutes, you know, was just all over the floor on both ends. The first play of the game, he. It's like a shot clock. 27, 28 footer swish. That sets a tone. Poor Jalen Duran was in hell trying to guard him on the perimeter. Like, two or three of his fouls were crap. I gotta go contest out here. Oh, it's a pump fake. He's off the dribble. A big man's not used to guarding somebody who can go pump fake off the dribble like that. That was like all of Wimby. And you know, for him to come back the next night, if anything, my concern would be how's he going to hold up to the playoff grind. Not. Not emotionally, but, like, physically. But we're seeing one of the most incredible talents and a guy who wants to squeeze every bit of that talent. Just have an unbelievable run. And to me, the mvp, Shea versus Wimby, now that's the conversation. All. All due respect to Joker, who's not been the same since coming back from the knee, and then, yeah, the two games against the Spurs. I'm sorry, I can't put Cade above Wimby on a ballot. Watching those two games.
- [46:05]
Brian
Fair point.
- [46:05]
Tim Bontemps
I had him ahead in the ballot.
- [46:07]
Brian
I think you're being a little aggressive dropping Yokich out completely, but I. I would agree also completely that Cade is not going to win or we're going to have another year without an American mvp, barring, like, you know, catastrophic bad injury luck across the board for the other three guys, because it is going to be one of those three guys. I don't know if I'd say Jokic is out, but not out, but he continues third on my ballot at this point. Yeah, that's. That's fair. But Victor. Victor certainly continues to keep himself in the mix with games like this and while keeping them keeping the spurs within at least shouting distance of the Thunder for that top seed in the Western Conference.
- [46:43]
Band McMahon
Ooh, I gotta. I got a stat that's gonna really annoy the uswb, the spurs nine. And, oh, now when Wimby hits at least four threes, including these last two games.
- [46:54]
Tim Bontemps
Yeah, that, you know, I mean, I'm
- [46:55]
Brian
not surprised that he. That they have a great record when he hits a lot of threes like that Makes sense.
- [47:00]
Tim Bontemps
It's.
- [47:00]
Brian
You know, if you told me before the game he's going to make four or seven threes or four of eight threes, I would say, yeah, great, do it. That's not. That's not the issue.
- [47:08]
Tim Bontemps
Yeah. And yes, I. I'm on team Bond temps on this one, and Victor would slap us both down in a tenth of a second. He doesn't want to hear it.
- [47:17]
Band McMahon
But 8 and 2 when he attempts at least 9, that's fine.
- [47:21]
Tim Bontemps
I'm prepared to admit I'm wrong when they're holding the trophy and he's shot them with three pointers all the way through four rounds. I'm prepared to admit I don't mind Victor.
- [47:29]
Brian
Again, to reiterate, I don't mind Victor shooting threes. I just don't want Victor. I, I'm. I'm even less concerned about Victor shooting threes, especially if they're catch and shoot threes. And if he's handling the ball on the perimeter, that's really the bigger thing for me. I just want Victor to be finishing plays. If that's catch and shoot threes, fine. That's catch and shoot lobs for dunks at the rim, fine. Like whatever the play, I just, I've said it a million times, but Victor is a play finisher on offense and a play wrecker on defense. That is the, that is the optimal way for him to play, at least today. Maybe at some point in the future his handles will be tightened up to the point where he can really also run offense, but it's just not the case now. And I think if he focuses on being a scoring machine and catching the ball and finishing, especially with all these guys, all these talented guards that get him the ball and the Spurs, I just think that's a better way for them to go than him trying to be a guard.
- [48:20]
Band McMahon
More Hoop Collective Podcast after this quick
- [48:24]
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- [50:41]
Tim Bontemps
Speaking of Shai and the Thunder, where you're headed to later tonight. McMahon to go see the Nuggets play the Thunder on Monday in OKC. The Thunder have won five in a row. They're 50 since Shai came back. He's played in four of those games. I think they've won eight of nine overall. Starting to hold teams to, you know, 100 or less or in the less than 110 again, more regularly. And they went through that rough stretch. They were, you know, they were giving up some, some higher point numbers. The sun, the Saturday game against the warriors. Missed opportunity for Golden State, I'm sure, because they had, well, three or four Golden State.
- [51:21]
Brian
I'm not sure I'd call it a missed opportunity that they were in a close game with half the team out.
- [51:25]
Tim Bontemps
Yeah, I know. But that was not a premium performance by the Thunder. Sure.
- [51:31]
Band McMahon
No. And the Thunder are really banged up now. Hartenstein, they're calling a cav contusion, which is at least good news that it's not a strain. You know, Caruso missed this game after taking a shot to his hip. J Dub is still out.
- [51:45]
Brian
AJ Mitchell still out.
- [51:47]
Band McMahon
Yeah, AJ Mitchell's still out.
- [51:48]
Tim Bontemps
I think AJ Mitchell's pretty close from what I've heard.
- [51:50]
Band McMahon
Yeah, I think A.J. mitchell's pretty close. I don't have a great feel on exactly when Dub will be back, other than just that they're clearly going to err on the side of caution given that he's came back and then tweaked that hamster or strained that hamstring right away again.
- [52:04]
Brian
Well, they gotta keep. They Gotta be cautious with Hartenstein, too. I mean, I mean, he's gone back and forth with the calf injuries, but I mean, this has been a. Going back to last season. He's had all sorts of different ailments with them and that's, you know, obviously they're the most talented team and the deepest team, but especially if they're going up against, you know, if they got to go up against Jokic and Victor to get to the finals, say they're going to need Isaiah Hardenstein out there to play against these teams. So, you know, that's a. That's a pretty tricky injury to manage. And, you know, there hasn't really been an update on his status other than he's just missed the next game after he came out.
- [52:41]
Band McMahon
The update was. They called it a contusion, which.
- [52:44]
Brian
Well, but I. I meant for in terms of like any sort of.
- [52:47]
Band McMahon
Yeah.
- [52:48]
Brian
Timeline. Like how it's going to be out.
- [52:50]
Tim Bontemps
The Thunder only scored 37 points in the second half of this game, and they won. Okay. So they. They limped. Sort of limped through it. But Shea hit a crucial three pointer with around a minute left. That pretty much.
- [53:05]
Band McMahon
Pretty little going right. Step back.
- [53:09]
Tim Bontemps
Yeah. And I mentioned this last night. I think I took on temps. I love that the arena, the Paycom center, they played Queen and now we are the champions when there is their victory song. Just in general, as I continue to grow gray hair and I develop my stick in the mud qualities. More Queen and more James Brown at NBA Arena.
- [53:31]
Band McMahon
That's my James Brown.
- [53:32]
Tim Bontemps
Yes, absolutely. Should be more James Brown. Tell me when James Brown is a bad decision or not. I just didn't.
- [53:37]
Brian
I didn't expect that to be coming from.
- [53:40]
Tim Bontemps
Absolutely. That's all absolutely the truth. At arenas, like, for arena rock, like, this is just perfect for it.
- [53:46]
Band McMahon
You dance like. I feel good.
- [53:49]
Tim Bontemps
I mean, I'm not saying I'm dancing, I'm saying I'm enjoying the music.
- [53:53]
Brian
Cinderblock does that shimmy whenever music is on.
- [53:56]
Tim Bontemps
All right, all right. Let's give him an international debut. Anyway. This was not one of Shai's best games to say this. He has had a couple of excellent performances since he's come back. Looked like he came right back to where he left a couple of high mid to low 30 point games. But in this game, you know, just to get people in their feelings, he was 6 of 15 from the field, which is one of his worst shooting games of the year, and 14 of 15 at the line.
- [54:25]
Band McMahon
And oh, no, Shea went to the line a lot Yeah, I know. It's an international controversy.
- [54:30]
Tim Bontemps
I know. And so there's now like a whole library of opposing coaches. Like, you can almost sort of just line them all up. And opposing coaches have commentary, you know, because the media asks them after every game. When Shay has a game like this, and Steve Kerr, I thought, you know, sometimes Steve Kerr can get a little over his skis with the media. Sometimes Steve Kerr can be pitch perfect with the media. He's very interesting all the time, which we appreciate. Anyway, what he said is, I don't have a problem with Shay doing this. He's not breaking the rules. He's operating within the rules. It's the rules that are the problem. And I would like to say to Steve that that is the most mature thing, that many, many people have been given chances. You know, Mike Brown kind of said something somewhat similar when the Knicks, when, last weekend, when the Knicks were. When the Spur, the Thunder were in New York. But basically every coach is pulling their hair out over it. But Shay is just. He is operating within the ecosystem that exists. And this is the way it is. Like, by the way, it's like, how many different officials have called Shai Gildas Alexander games this year? 50, 60. How many different referees. I'm sure that. I'm sure the NBA has a number in a database. How many different referees have called a shooting foul where Shay Gildas Alexander has gone to the line? Like, it's not a bias, it's. It's a. He is playing, you know, he is incentive. He is playing to the incentive and it won them.
- [56:06]
Band McMahon
I also, again, I just push back on the thought that what we're seeing from Shay is some kind of anomaly in terms of how often he gets to the line as a 30 plus point per game scorer who does the vast majority of his damage off the dribble. And you know, it's funny because Shay doesn't lead the league in free throws and it is a guard who leads the league in free throws. It's Luka Doncic. But then the conversation about Luka is never like, oh, he gets too many whistles. It's Luca whining about the whistles that he doesn't get. Where Shay. I would have to. I'd have to. I'd be curious to look this up. I would bet that Shay has fewer technical fouls in his career than Luka does. Averages per season. I would bet that, well, Luka has 15.
- [56:49]
Tim Bontemps
Aren't you glad you're not in MC10 shoes like back in the old days?
- [56:53]
Band McMahon
You don't think I've ever been in those shoes.
- [56:55]
Tim Bontemps
No, I'm saying, aren't you glad you're not anymore? Because when Luka would get to 50, has he actually been suspended for text
- [57:04]
Band McMahon
or is he's had a 16th rescinded. Famously, he had one time he had the 16th rescinded, and so he was able to play the final game of the season when they had some seating stuff on the line, and that's when he strained his calf for the first time and missed the first three games of the playoffs.
- [57:24]
Tim Bontemps
Right. So when they played the Jazz, and I'm not expecting you to know this off top of your head, but so he got his 15th last week with roughly five, six weeks left in the season. Do you think he can go?
- [57:35]
Band McMahon
No.
- [57:36]
Tim Bontemps
Yeah.
- [57:36]
Band McMahon
And I, I, I wondered if that one was going to be rescinded simply because, like when, if you just watch the, as the tees being called, you're like, he didn't say anything. Well, no, what happened was he said what he had to say. He, he said what the ref deemed worthy of a tea as the Nuggets were getting out in transition, which honestly more than the tees. That's the biggest problem.
- [58:00]
Tim Bontemps
Jackson has the number. Jackson has the number.
- [58:02]
Brian
It's not actually have. I have the number from espn.com which is different than the one Jackson has.
- [58:07]
Tim Bontemps
So I'm not sure.
- [58:08]
Band McMahon
Okay, what do we got?
- [58:10]
Brian
The number on ESPN.com is 9, which is still far lower than Nicole or Luka Doncic this year, let alone.
- [58:18]
Band McMahon
That's Shay's career fees.
- [58:20]
Tim Bontemps
Yeah.
- [58:20]
Band McMahon
Yeah. Well, that's the thing.
- [58:21]
Tim Bontemps
Shay doesn't. How many drops of sweat has he.
- [58:24]
Brian
And one of them was the other day throwing the ball.
- [58:26]
Tim Bontemps
It might be about the same.
- [58:28]
Brian
Well, one of them was. One of them was the other day in that Nuggets game when he threw the ball off Nicole Jokic after he got fouled after the whistle. And honestly, I don't know what gets
- [58:38]
Band McMahon
you a better whistle. I don't know if the constant complaining, because there are times where I think like, hey, Luca earned that call with the complaining two or three possessions earlier or does just the like calm, cool, like, okay, I'm going to give that guy the benefit of the doubt because he's not wearing me out all the time. I don't know what's more effective in terms of actually getting calls.
- [58:59]
Tim Bontemps
Well, Luca, how do I want to say this? I don't. Luca doesn't bait. He just.
- [59:04]
Band McMahon
Oh, yes, he does.
- [59:06]
Tim Bontemps
Well, yeah, he gets not predominant.
- [59:08]
Band McMahon
Listen, Luca is one of the best offensive talents of all time.
- [59:12]
Tim Bontemps
Luca falls down. I'll give him that. Luca falls down.
- [59:15]
Band McMahon
He falls down. And Luka. Luka's very. Luca is as good as there is in the league and as good as one of the best ever at being able to create contact to where basically, if you're not fouling him, you can't defend them. He bullies guys.
- [59:31]
Tim Bontemps
That's a really good point.
- [59:32]
Band McMahon
Yeah, he bullies guys physically. When he gets down low off the
- [59:35]
Tim Bontemps
dribble, it's crazy to see how slow it appears Luka moves and yet how often he's able to get open. Yeah.
- [59:45]
Band McMahon
And he's.
- [59:45]
Tim Bontemps
It's a combination fascinating to watch.
- [59:48]
Band McMahon
He's his. Both of these guys. Actually, both Luka and Shay are similar in the sense of their footwork. When they pick the dribble up is as good as there is like, unbelievable. Brunson's up there, actually, Ann Edwards is up there with unbelievable footwork. But the combination, like footwork, balance.
- [60:06]
Tim Bontemps
Yeah.
- [60:06]
Band McMahon
Using the pump fake. And then Luka is just so big and so strong. Like when he puts that shoulder into you off the dribble, and it's not a. It's not an offensive foul. When he puts that shoulder into you off the dribble, the only way you can respond is with all out physicality. And it's hard to respond with all out physicality. Also not foul.
- [60:24]
Tim Bontemps
Luka's ability to, like, shoot from all different angles.
- [60:28]
Band McMahon
Yeah.
- [60:29]
Tim Bontemps
Like on the clock. I feel like he can score from like 10 o' clock to like 4 o', clock, like, however he releases.
- [60:38]
Brian
And he's 6, 8, and he's built like a brick wall. I mean, it's, you know, I mean, it's why he's. To Big Band's point. He's such a unique. He's such a unique talent. But those guys both know all the rules. They know how to manipulate the rules to their advantage. It's a big part of why they're successful. And by the way, speaking of that, I think since we talked about this a lot the other day, I do think it's worth pointing out since we last did the Pod, that Lou Dort talked to Joel Lorenzi, the athletic friend of the Pod, and he admitted. I'll say he's friend of the pod. And he. And he admitted that he went over the line on that play with Nicole Jokic last week, which I thought was the right thing for Lou to do. And to say since he did and, you know, we're obviously getting McMahon's obviously going to be at that game Monday night and these teams could easily play seven games in the playoffs. I hope they do because I think it'll be an awesome series and I thought that was a responsible way to handle that.
- [61:35]
Tim Bontemps
I think organizationally after the Thunder got back in and kind of evaluated the film and took a look at the whole thing, they were like, you know what, we're all for defending our guy,
- [61:45]
Brian
but yeah, sometimes you make a mistake. You made a mistake.
- [61:52]
Tim Bontemps
Mark Dagenault sort of tone back the rhetoric. Lou Dort proactively went out and raised his hand so.
- [62:00]
Band McMahon
And Dagenhall just stopped commenting and just we got so much respect for him.
- [62:04]
Brian
That's what I'm saying.
- [62:04]
Tim Bontemps
He pulled it back. He pulled it back for sure. So, you know. But yeah, the thing about this game will be who's on the active list
- [62:14]
Band McMahon
for the Nuggets because, well, they haven't announced anything yet on as we speak here on Murray. Yeah, I'm told they don't think that's a major ankle sprain, but he clearly twisted that ankle pretty well.
- [62:27]
Tim Bontemps
Look, I mean you gotta get help
- [62:29]
Brian
back to the locker room. You're, you're probably gonna miss some time.
- [62:32]
Tim Bontemps
The Knicks, you know, throttled them and they played really well and you know, OG had a great game that night, etc. But you know, that was a relic of the Nuggets by that game. So I'm, you know, I'm not sure what we're going to see in Oklahoma City. Although look, Denver has repeatedly been able to over patch themselves up and overcome this year. But yeah, did get Aaron Gordon back
- [62:59]
Brian
for the first time in six weeks though. That was big.
- [63:02]
Tim Bontemps
Yes. Obviously about, you know, he's going to be on minute restriction.
- [63:06]
Brian
Still back on. Still back on. I'm sure he'll be on the men's restriction but he's still back on the court. That's a huge thing for them overall going forward.
- [63:13]
Tim Bontemps
Yes.
- [63:13]
Band McMahon
By the way, I just, I just want to. On the free throw thing, I just want to put this in perspective. Just did a basketball reference search. Guards who have scored 30 plus points per game in a season. Shea ranked by free throws attempted. There's been 49 guards including the guys this season. Average 30 points per game. Shay's free throws this season would rank 32nd most on that list. So again, it's not even, even Luka. Luka who's leading the league in free throw percent or free throw attempts. Luka would ranked 21st out of 49. Like when you Create that much off the dribble.
- [63:44]
Brian
And you.
- [63:45]
Tim Bontemps
Yeah, I'm.
- [63:46]
Band McMahon
And have the style of play they have. It's not like these are crazy free throws.
- [63:51]
Tim Bontemps
So here's, here's my hypothesis. My hypothesis is that when you can't stop something, right. And he's not stoppable scoring wise, that you start appealing. You look for the. Any way that you can stop it. I think it's just human nature. Right, sure. And so when you get beat by this guy who's just an absolute expert at it, you, you know, you appeal to the, you know, you can't beat him straight up. So you just, you know, you appeal to the, to the arbiter. You're just trying to change the rules.
- [64:22]
Band McMahon
And their heart is held a guard without fouling. And Shay is much as I talk about like how strong Luke is and how physically he plays. That shoulder Shay gives. He looks wiry, trust me.
- [64:32]
Tim Bontemps
Right.
- [64:32]
Band McMahon
And that's seen you feel it when you. When he. And it's not an offensive foul. Now sometimes like the key shot he hit, what was that Game three, I believe against the Pacers, he actually extended. That usually doesn't extend the chicken wing usually just gives that shoulder and creates space. The other thing is you have to. Well, he's such a dominant mid range.
- [64:51]
Tim Bontemps
He uses the arm though he may not extend it, but he certainly uses the arm well.
- [64:55]
Band McMahon
And, and that's.
- [64:56]
Tim Bontemps
That's fine. If they started calling that, he would probably just have to adjust. I don't know.
- [65:00]
Brian
He would just adjust. And I would like to see them start calling that more like Jason Tatum. You know, obviously we talked about him earlier. He is the king of the, you know, use the, use the arm to create space. Giannis is a big time Giannis opponent
- [65:14]
Tim Bontemps
of that arm and shoulder. Like good luck in front of that shoulder. I would.
- [65:18]
Brian
It's so hard to guard these guys. I would like the NBA to take that tool away because it does make it virtually impossible to guard these guys. But again, Che and Luka both like they know every ounce of every inch of the rule book and they maximize their ability to get to the line and score and dominate games.
- [65:37]
Band McMahon
Like I. Luka knows and he debates it in real time.
- [65:40]
Brian
Well, yes, he definitely wants to tell
- [65:43]
Tim Bontemps
you, but over the last couple of years, we've seen the officials change their level of allowed physicality. It's sort of gone up and down.
- [65:50]
Band McMahon
It ebbs and flows for sure.
- [65:52]
Tim Bontemps
Well, and Shay has not. The streak has barreled right through.
- [65:54]
Brian
That's right.
- [65:57]
Band McMahon
You know, the guard on this list, who has the most free throws per game? Number one and number two on the list. Bob Pettit was a forward.
- [66:04]
Tim Bontemps
By the way, Bob Pettit showed up in our. Hold on. Keep going.
- [66:08]
Band McMahon
And I'll tell you, Bob Pettit complexion as well. That's another hint.
- [66:12]
Brian
Koozie.
- [66:13]
Band McMahon
Jerry West. Jerry west is at the line getting free throw Merchant Chance.
- [66:17]
Tim Bontemps
Adam, good luck. Tell you something. If you. If you ran across Jerry west and you called him, by the way, I don't understand why that's a insult, but obviously it is. But if you call Jerry, especially when Jerry west was like, had the adrenaline flowing, I mean, I've told you the story that he told me.
- [66:33]
Brian
Jerry west, another guy who was not a small guy.
- [66:36]
Tim Bontemps
Oh, my God, no, in any sense,
- [66:38]
Brian
anyway, he would have been able to slot right into today's NBA and play.
- [66:41]
Tim Bontemps
Jerry west once told me that after one of the years, the year in 69, I think when he won the MVP of the Finals, I think it was 69, and he won the MVP of the Finals and they lost in seven. He didn't leave his house for three weeks, three, four weeks. Just couldn't leave his house. And he finally was like, I guess I better start. He thought he was getting out of shape. And so he, like, for the first time, like, other than like, you know, going to the grocery store, like a hat and glasses or whatever, he finally, like, went out for a jog and was jogging, you know, and a guy like a few blocks from his house, a neighbor said some. Some. Some bleep to him about losing in the finals. And he stopped and cocked his fifth and then dropped, thankfully for all parties, dropped it and kept going. But again a month later. So imagine if you call Jerry West a free throw merchant as he was
- [67:34]
Brian
walking off the court, would not have ended well.
- [67:37]
Tim Bontemps
So on Saturday night, I'm not sure if they're playing today. Sunday, the hawks beat the 76ers, which, by the way, I don't know if by the time this pod comes out, there may be an announcement on Tyrese Maxey. It. It sure looked like he may have seriously injured his hand or finger in the.
- [67:51]
Brian
I was hoping. The way it sounded like he was eating in the locker room without anything on it after the game. I was hoping there was this real freak play. There was a loose ball, think off a free throw, and he ran into a Dem Bona, the center for the Sixers, who's built like a brick wall.
- [68:06]
Tim Bontemps
And what Bona was like, he really hurt Bona, which was like almost the bona was like injured. So.
- [68:12]
Brian
Yeah, so I. I'm hoping he just kind of got a stinger. The way it went. He didn't have like feeling in his hand because it. But I don't. I haven't heard anything yet today. It did look good in real time.
- [68:24]
Tim Bontemps
Well, he did the thing where he put his uniform over it and like walked immediately to the back.
- [68:29]
Brian
Yes.
- [68:29]
Tim Bontemps
Sixers. Sixers, by the way, fell to eighth with that loss because Vijay Edgecombe is now dealing again with the back issue and Embiid is out with an oblique injury. So anyway, the Hawks won their one
- [68:41]
Brian
and a half games ahead of. One and a half games ahead of Atlanta in ninth and one and a half games behind Toronto and fifth.
- [68:47]
Band McMahon
That is OKC might still get a lottery pick right now it's top four protected.
- [68:54]
Tim Bontemps
Actually.
- [68:54]
Band McMahon
Might still get two lottery picks. One from the Sixers, Clippers, Clippers and Clippers.
- [69:00]
Tim Bontemps
Anyway, the hawks won their sixth straight game on Saturday night and Jalen Johnson had 35, 10 and 7.
- [69:07]
Brian
It was most of those games not exactly against elite competition.
- [69:11]
Tim Bontemps
I would agree, and I think the Hawks would agree with you too. However, there's six wins in a row as we build towards Magic City Night.
- [69:20]
Band McMahon
Ooh, Luke Cornett does not like that and blogged about that eloquently.
- [69:27]
Tim Bontemps
Yes, Lou Cornett is still working on the liturgical calendar. So that's the fourth time this season that Jalen Johnson has had 35, 10 and five. Fourth time. That's the second most all time for the Hawks franchise. Bob Pettit had more twice. Oh, that's what we were building.
- [69:54]
Band McMahon
I wonder why you were going there
- [69:55]
Tim Bontemps
in 58, 59 and 61. 62. He did it five and six times. So. All right, you know, whenever. Listen, whenever Bob Pettit comes across our world, the stats.
- [70:08]
Brian
We gotta get him.
- [70:09]
Tim Bontemps
We are. We are getting him in the pod. All right, everybody, by the way, just
- [70:15]
Band McMahon
get back to where we were earlier. Wimby has now had 16 career four plus block. Four plus three performances. That's the most in NBA history.
- [70:26]
Tim Bontemps
Yeah. Let me see how many Bob Pettit had.
- [70:28]
Brian
Has anybody else had 10?
- [70:31]
Band McMahon
Don't ask me things.
- [70:32]
Brian
I don't.
- [70:32]
Tim Bontemps
Actually, four three pointers is a high bar for.
- [70:35]
Band McMahon
Yeah,
- [70:38]
Brian
I don't know. I'm going to try to do a quick sad head search before we go and check that because I can't imagine there's been many. There's been many of those.
- [70:47]
Band McMahon
It's a pretty impressive little variance in a guy's game that's for sure.
- [70:54]
Tim Bontemps
Yeah. How many times did Bob Pettit defend the rim from. From. From the elbow or from the, you know, the elbow extended? No offense to Bob. I'm sure Bob probably did it in his own way, just with intimidating stares. And I don't.
- [71:12]
Band McMahon
I don't think back in the day there were a whole lot of alley oops being thrown either.
- [71:15]
Tim Bontemps
You don't think backdoor alley oops off
- [71:17]
Band McMahon
of who was our guy? Jackson, who was our guy who we had this pod reference and the guy who the alley oop kind of started with. God.
- [71:30]
Tim Bontemps
What?
- [71:30]
Band McMahon
I don't remember. I think Don. Don something. Anyways.
- [71:36]
Tim Bontemps
I don't know. All right. Bontemps is still looking it up.
- [71:39]
Brian
I'm doing a quick scan here. James Harden's done it four times. Jaren Jackson's done it five times. Rafe LaFrence did it five times. Maverick's great current NBA center has done it 12 times.
- [71:55]
Tim Bontemps
Embiid.
- [71:56]
Brian
Nope.
- [71:56]
Band McMahon
Don Kojis was our guy, by the way. I don't know.
- [71:59]
Tim Bontemps
Porzingis.
- [72:00]
Brian
We didn't talk about Porzingis on the pod. He's done it 11 times.
- [72:03]
Band McMahon
There you go.
- [72:04]
Brian
Porzingis done it. Another guy's done it 12 times.
- [72:07]
Tim Bontemps
Porzingis played on Saturday and said that he thinks he's past his illness issues. I hope that that's true.
- [72:13]
Brian
I hope so, too.
- [72:14]
Tim Bontemps
Ramona Shelburne and Anthony Slater had a story on Porzingis that ran, I think, on Friday talking about the issues with this. And unfortunately, in that story, there was three or four instances where he has said exactly the same thing or essentially the same thing. So, yeah, you know, I hope it's. I hope it's true. And I will say also in that story, Mike Dunleavy, the Warriors general manager, was quoted as saying when he made the trade with Atlanta Kaminga for Zingis, whoever else was in that deal, the warriors medical staff cleared it. They took whatever information they were given, they did their background research, they did it and they. They cleared it and then they did the deal. And Dunleavy said, I have complete trust and belief in our staff. And so he's on the record as saying that. So that's what it is.
- [73:04]
Band McMahon
The 4, 3, 4, block double figure club is Wimby. Brooke Lopez with 12, which we should have guessed, and Porzingis with 11.
- [73:13]
Tim Bontemps
That's right.
- [73:14]
Brian
This happened 108, 98 times in NBA history. And Wembanyama's done it 16 times in two and a half years.
- [73:21]
Band McMahon
And you know what? Wimby might do it 100 and 98 times in his career.
- [73:25]
Brian
I mean that's, I mean considering all the games he's missed already, he might have done it 25 already or 30.
- [73:30]
Tim Bontemps
So it's pretty wild. He has his druthers. That's what he, that's the way he wants to play. So I just looked it up to see because Brooke had four threes against the spurs the other night he also had four steals but no blocks so he gets credit for a 4 steal for a 3 point game.
- [73:51]
Band McMahon
That's probably not as rare.
- [73:53]
Tim Bontemps
Probably not as rare but no because there's all these guards who would have done it. However, for a center that's pretty, pretty good. All right, everybody travel safe. Thank you for listening to Hoop Collective. Thank you to Jax and all of our producers for putting this together. Another week of spectacular podcast content starts off as we are in week whatever of ordinary time and we'll talk to you later this week.
- [74:16]
Band McMahon
Adios, amigos.
- [74:39]
Tim Bontemps
That.