← Brian Windhorst & The Hoop Collective
Brian Windhorst & The Hoop Collective
The True Contenders In The Eastern Conference + A Historic Rookie Of The Year Battle
01:00:24
Hoop Collective: The True Contenders In The Eastern Conference + A Historic Rookie Of The Year Battle
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- [00:02]
Brian Windhorst
The world moves fast.
- [00:03]
Tim Bontemps
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- [00:12]
Brian Windhorst
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- [00:15]
Tim Bontemps
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- [00:34]
Brian Windhorst
Welcome to the Hoop Collective podcast. We talk about the NBA, which we're doing late on Sunday evening. It's almost Monday morning. Joining us from New York City, where he attended the Brooklyn Nets game against the Sacramento Kings, which actually had significant implications because it's two teams are next to each other in the Tankathon standings. Tim Bontemps.
- [00:53]
Tim Bontemps
Yeah, there was big Tankathon stakes at play in Brooklyn tonight, and everybody at the arena was watching Duke UConn in the unbelievable ending that we saw in that game.
- [01:03]
Brian Windhorst
Absolutely. Joining us from Oklahoma City, where he watched the Thunder take another team down in clutch time when they beat the New York Knicks on Sunday evening, is Ban McMahon.
- [01:14]
Bam McMahon
Howdy, partners. I come to you from the green room for musicians who play concerts here at the Pacom Center. We got all you can see behind me.
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Tim Bontemps
I was gonna say I saw some guitars behind you. I was wondering.
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Brian Windhorst
The lights keep changing like.
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Bam McMahon
Well, we've got some mood lighting. There's guitars, there's like various spring instruments.
- [01:29]
Brian Windhorst
Rascal Flats was in there a couple days ago.
- [01:33]
Bam McMahon
All kinds of percussion key. And it's kind of fitting because the old New York Knicks were on the floor tonight playing the blues. Playing the blues. And Mike Brown got a quite a heated technical foul. I thought he was about. We close to getting tossed.
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Brian Windhorst
Yes. We all saw you on television watching
- [01:52]
Bam McMahon
and trying to get a little ear in there.
- [01:54]
Tim Bontemps
I'll tell you what, we're playing the hits down the stretch of the game with Shea going crazy in clutch time like we've seen many, by the way, this year.
- [02:00]
Brian Windhorst
Isn't Jim Dolan Isn't the Blues. Isn't that what his band plays?
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Bam McMahon
Maybe, maybe. But there was crime. By the by the Knicks and Mike Brown called him out and said that the Knicks expend too much energy on the referees tonight.
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Brian Windhorst
Boy, I'll tell you what. Death, taxes and the visiting coach commenting
- [02:17]
Tim Bontemps
on the officiating in Oklahoma City and the Thunder winning. Don't leave that part.
- [02:23]
Bam McMahon
There's that part. Now, Shay did take about as many free throws as the entire Knicks team. Um, and I couldn't get a straight the feeling I got, I couldn't, you know, Brunson was being politically correct. I think Brunson was, was perturbed about calls. He wasn't getting more than calls that Shay and the Thunder were getting.
- [02:47]
Brian Windhorst
But okay, yes. So free throws for Shea was 16. Brunson had four, however, and I guess if you're a Knicks fan, you'll, you'll disagree. I didn't feel like the fourth quarter like, you know, Shay came back with it with six and a half left and it was a two or three point game.
- [03:04]
Bam McMahon
Two point game. Yeah.
- [03:05]
Brian Windhorst
Did you feel that there were controversial Shay calls down the stretch? I did, maybe earlier, yeah.
- [03:11]
Bam McMahon
Mike Brown, basically, he said Shay's the best in the league of that kind of gamesmanship, which you say. Gamesmanship, foul, bane, whatever. Basically, when there's contact, Shea is very good at one, drawing contact and two, making sure that contact is noticed. Shea, really, he didn't shoot well at all against Chicago the other night. And again, the Thunder pulled away late. He didn't shoot it well for three and a half quarters tonight. And then the fourth quarter, you know, was an MVP close by him.
- [03:39]
Brian Windhorst
The thing about the MVP is that, like, when you have the conversation, the comparison comes up and you know, what ends up the, you know, for decades, the conversation devolves into your. You're trying to put down one guy.
- [03:54]
Bam McMahon
Yeah, I'm not trying to do that.
- [03:55]
Brian Windhorst
I know you're not. How am I supposed to watch Shay in this game do this for the 17th time this year and not just be like, my God? I mean, again, Victor has like seven jaw dropping highlights a night and Shay, it just comes in and just rip people's hearts out. Like, I, I don't know what to say.
- [04:19]
Tim Bontemps
Yeah, that's all you got to say expression. Well, that and you could talk about the refs all you want if you're, if you're a Knick fan. However, Jalen makes a bucket with 447 to go. Makes it 97, 95. The next time the Knicks scored a field goal was when Jalen hit a bucket with just under a minute to go. And by then it was 109 to 98. Yeah, like they went on a 12 to 1 run when the game was in the balance. And much of that was Shea either setting up shots or making shots.
- [04:52]
Brian Windhorst
Well, what happened was Carl Towns was actually having some success. They were getting, you know, he was getting a small guy in the post. They were throwing it down. He actually made a couple of baskets. You know, he just doesn't he has these games where he just is not a part of the offense, which I,
- [05:07]
Bam McMahon
you know, tonight was one of them for three quarters. He was two or two from the floor through the third quarter.
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Brian Windhorst
So they start the fourth quarter. They start, they get switches. They're throwing the ball to him in the post. He makes two or three baskets, then they bring in Caruso, and they put Caruso on him the same way they put Caruso on Wembanyama and then.
- [05:28]
Bam McMahon
And Joker in game seven.
- [05:29]
Brian Windhorst
Yeah. And look, Caruso fights the guys in the post, and Caruso's essentially playing defensive center down the stretch of this game. And Caruso is guarding Towns. So when they want to go to the Towns Brunson pick and roll, the thunder were like, go ahead, like, we're going to switch it. And Caruso's fighting. There's one moment late in the game. The game was already decided. But there's one moment late in the game where I think Brunson took a shot. Maybe it was Anunobi takes a shot. And Caruso is right there with Towns for the rebound. Towns has 18 rebounds in this game. I'm not saying he wasn't rebounding. And they both go for the ball, and Caruso tips it to a teammate and wins the rebound. Basically, he's like, I'm giving up, you know, 6 inches, 5 inches.
- [06:16]
Tim Bontemps
It's just a definitional Alex Caruso play, right?
- [06:18]
Brian Windhorst
And he looks over at the bench and flexes and is like, you know.
- [06:21]
Tim Bontemps
Yeah. It's why the entire league went insane when the Bulls traded him to Oklahoma City and just got back.
- [06:28]
Brian Windhorst
How's that Bulls Jaden Ivy trade looking, by the way?
- [06:32]
Bam McMahon
Not so great.
- [06:33]
Brian Windhorst
I hope Jaden Ivey's doing okay. There's some stuff on social media that he's posting about that's, you know, I don't know. I. I don't have any insight there. I just want to, you know, as long as we're mentioning the Bulls, you
- [06:45]
Bam McMahon
know, Caruso one cat did mention that he. He would like to get more post touches when he's got a size mismatch like that. And I asked what was preventing him from getting those touches, and he kind of said, well, you know, just the game plan, what we're trying to do offensively. So he. But he made it clear he'd like to get more post touches, just in case you guys are wondering about that. But, you know, Caruso, obviously, his. His values primarily just, he's one of the best, most versatile, most disruptive defenders in the NBA. But tonight Looking at his, he made, he was, he only made two shots, but two or four from three point range, it's good for Caruso and to see some go down. It's good for Thunder fans to see him hit some threes. He's been going into tonight. He's been 17% from three point range after the All Star break. And I do believe come playoff time, you know, I think opponents are going to make Caruso prove that he can hit threes. And you know what, the guy's played in a bunch of big games before multiple championship rings. I don't doubt that he can hit them when they count, but I think that he's going to have to prove that he can.
- [08:05]
Brian Windhorst
Yeah. The Knicks fans were not thrilled that Mohamed Diawara didn't play almost any minutes in this game tonight. But I'm not sure that Modi Arwara is out there that he's going to stop Shay. I mean, they have elite wing defenders. Nobody stops Shay.
- [08:26]
Bam McMahon
Well, and again, they like Shea, I think at one point was three or 13, at least four or 14.
- [08:32]
Brian Windhorst
Right.
- [08:33]
Bam McMahon
And he just got it going down the stretch. I mean, they guarded him very well. He was getting to the line, but they guarded him well the vast majority of the game. You know what, I say that when he was 4 or 14, I remember thinking four or five of those were like short jumpers or mid range jumpers that tend to be layup type of shots for him. So some of it was he just missed some shots, usually hits, but he, he was at least kept under wraps for the majority of the game, just not the last five minutes.
- [09:04]
Tim Bontemps
Well, and then when the game matters, he scores or assists. Yeah, he scored or assisted on 14 consecutive points. Like that's, that's, that's the deal.
- [09:12]
Brian Windhorst
Okay, so they go to, they go to Towns three or four times in the post, he gets some baskets and then when you're in crunch time, they go to the Brunson Towns pick and roll. Are they supposed to go to straight Towns post ups there? Because they're not supposed to have Brunson in the. I mean, I mean, I'm not saying it's right or wrong. I'm just, I'm just trying to diagnose what, what's being said there. Do they, do they not want Brunson to operate in the pick and roll? That's how he's won, like, he's won them like 75 games the last three years doing that.
- [09:44]
Bam McMahon
Yeah, I, I just, I just know Katt would like to get more post touches you know how exactly those materialize. He didn't delve into specifics.
- [09:52]
Tim Bontemps
I think anytime you lose a competitive game in the closing minutes and you don't score, people are going to be frustrated. I think that's all it is.
- [10:01]
Brian Windhorst
Yeah, I think that's true. You know, the thing about the Knicks, you know, they, they played seven sort of easy games in a row. They won all seven and now they've played, you know, two more potent teams, Charlotte and Oklahoma City, and they lost. And that, that looks bad. You know, it just, you know, the Knicks, I've said this a couple times throughout the season. You look at the checklist of what you need as a championship team. They check a lot of boxes. Check a lot of them.
- [10:27]
Bam McMahon
Are you, are you picking them to beat Boston?
- [10:29]
Brian Windhorst
No, that's what I'm saying. They check a lot of boxes, but not enough boxes.
- [10:33]
Tim Bontemps
McMahon. Yeah, look, the Knicks, like all these teams in the east at the top, are good but flawed. So what you could say about Detroit, so you could say about Boston, so you could say about the Knicks, we can say about the Cavs, they're all good. They're all flawed. I think as of right now, we would all pick Boston.
- [10:52]
Bam McMahon
More Hoop Collective podcast after this.
- [10:55]
Rich Eisen
Rich eisen here. The April 15 tax deadline is coming fast, but don't worry. Hand off your taxes to a TurboTax expert today. You know how April feels. Everything speeds up. Games matter more. Hoops and hockey schedules tighten, your phone won't stop buzzing. And somewhere in the middle the of of it all, there's that quiet little reminder.
- [11:14]
Brian Windhorst
Taxes.
- [11:15]
Rich Eisen
You'll get to it tonight or tomorrow or after the weekend. And if you handle it the old way, you're refreshing your inbox like it's breaking news. Waiting, wondering, hoping. Everything's squared away. That's a lot of mental bandwidth. With Intuit TurboTax Expert full service, you can match with a dedicated expert who understands your specific tax situation and handles your taxes for you. Start to finish. You can do it all online or meet in person at one of their new tech enabled store locations, have your tax forms imported directly into the app, and hand everything off to your TurboTax expert while they work to get you every dollar you deserve. You can go about your normal routine, giving you time back to focus on what actually deserves your attention. Like rooting for your team to make the playoffs. April 15th is not waiting, people. Visit turbotax.com and hand off your your taxes to a Turbo tax expert today.
- [12:08]
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Bam McMahon
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- [13:07]
Brian Windhorst
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- [13:41]
Bam McMahon
What are the Celtics flaws at this point on on a day that Tatum had what he finished with 30. Whatever.
- [13:46]
Tim Bontemps
So Jason Tatum so Jason Tatum has really struggled shooting the ball coming in today. He had a great game. No Jalen, no Jalen Brown. No Derrick White. Charlotte. Charlotte playing second night of a back
- [14:00]
Brian Windhorst
to back had a really potential first round series.
- [14:03]
Tim Bontemps
Could be. Charlotte had a really intense game on Saturday night with Philly. We'll talk about that in a bit. But obviously the Celtics down a couple guys. They're on a back to back Monday night in Atlanta. See what happens in that game. Another potential first round series for the Celtics. But Tatum had struggled. He had been under 50% every single game he had played so far. Ends up going 12 for 23, had 32 and eight. Eight assists, no turnovers.
- [14:30]
Bam McMahon
I was going to say eight assists, no turnovers. 12, 23, five of 10 from three point range. I mean 32 and eight efficiently with no turnovers. When they had their the guys who've been their two best players all season long. Not in the lineup.
- [14:43]
Tim Bontemps
Yeah, I mean for him to have a. It was a great time for him to have a game Where Pritchard in the lineup?
- [14:48]
Brian Windhorst
Peyton Pritchard had one of his.
- [14:51]
Bam McMahon
Yeah, Peyton Pritchard's a hell of a player.
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Tim Bontemps
But look, if you're, if you're, if you're poking holes in the Celtics, right, one is that Tatum to this point has not had his usual level of burst and pop athletically, which is totally understandable coming off the Achilles. But he has come back. You know, like I wrote about last week, he's playing with a 31 usage like he's right back to being Jason Tatum from a usage standpoint without really having the efficiency to go with it. Now today he hit shots, which has been a welcome change. Like I said, if he starts shooting 50% from the field again, again, Celtics are going to be in really good shape. But look, we saw the Celtics last year lose to the Knicks by sort of falling into the three point heavy, don't really get into the paint, sort of the, the tropes that have ended up costing them at times in the past with this Jason Tatum, Jaylen Brown led group. And they don't have Drew Holiday, Chris Esper, Zingis, Al Horford, Luke Cornett to fall back on this year.
- [15:48]
Brian Windhorst
Right. You're going to be asking guys to play roles that they haven't played before. However, their front three guys, and I'm going to say front four because I'm including Pritchard.
- [15:59]
Tim Bontemps
Sure you should.
- [16:00]
Bam McMahon
They all been there. They all done that.
- [16:03]
Brian Windhorst
It's pretty good.
- [16:03]
Tim Bontemps
Yeah, they've all been there and they've all done it. None of these other teams in the east have. And I'm picking them right now to win the east, but I don't think. They're certainly not an unassailable favorite.
- [16:14]
Brian Windhorst
We've given Con Knippel a straight, steady heap of praise for months on end, and rightly so. The games that are coming up are going to be chips on the table games. There was a chip on the table game today and he had a stinker.
- [16:29]
Bam McMahon
Yeah. And he wasn't great against Philly either, which is fine.
- [16:32]
Brian Windhorst
I mean, like, I'm not, I'm not. I'm just saying, like.
- [16:34]
Tim Bontemps
Yeah, and he was. And he was rough. And he was rough Saturday night, too. To your point. 3 for 14 from the field Saturday, 5 for 13 on Sunday in two games that obviously if Charlotte wins both those games, they got a shot to maybe get up into the top six now, you know, it's looking more the other way.
- [16:51]
Brian Windhorst
Let's take a look at the sort of the middle of the midfield. Is that what they say in F1 bontemps, like the midfield. Is that what they call it?
- [16:59]
Tim Bontemps
They say it in F1 and they say it in the Premier League standings where Tottenham is.
- [17:03]
Brian Windhorst
Where Tottenham is the midfield dreaming in the midfield.
- [17:06]
Tim Bontemps
By the way. Midfield.
- [17:08]
Brian Windhorst
Tottenham is about to have their third manager in six weeks. So how about that for not great? Can you imagine, I mean, can you imagine an NBA team firing two coaches in the same season?
- [17:21]
Bam McMahon
I mean, I'm surprised Vivek hadn't done it yet. Not having an interim guy, seriously, like Vivek's had 14 coaches in six years or whatever. But that's.
- [17:30]
Brian Windhorst
He would never have very unluckily to happen because. But you know, and obviously in, in European soccer, you. You get demoted from the league, which is what Tottenham's on the verge of my team. But that's neither here nor there. But looking at the midfield, two teams I want to talk about. Well, I guess three because Toronto, you know, I got to give Toronto credit. So Toronto played Orlando in a fairly important game this afternoon in Toronto. And look, the game is in Toronto. It's Orlando and the Raptors. It's not, you know, was going on during that Michigan, Tennessee game. You know, you had to be a pretty hardcore fan.
- [18:08]
Bam McMahon
Let's just say this Tennessee put up a better fight against Michigan.
- [18:12]
Brian Windhorst
The point is Orlando is, you know, a couple of days ago they were in 10th and they're only not in 10th right now because Charlotte had a bad weekend and so did Miami. Miami lost to the Pacers on Sunday and Miami is routinely giving up 125 to 140 points.
- [18:30]
Bam McMahon
What happened to heat culture? Put the paragraph back in the paint for those 83.
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Tim Bontemps
Listen, listen, set that part aside. All, all Bam has been saying for the last two or three months is I don't want to be in the BLEEP and play in in some form or fashion over and over again. And I'm sorry, Bam. Looks like you're going to be in the play in.
- [18:47]
Bam McMahon
Yeah, listen, the good news might be that one of those teams has to win the 9:10 game. Somebody's got to win the Florida state championship.
- [18:54]
Tim Bontemps
Game 31 to nothing is rough.
- [18:58]
Brian Windhorst
So Toronto and. And Orlando are in a dog fight to avoid the play in. The Cavs have pretty much solidified that they're going to be the four seed. They could New York coming in, but we know the top four are going to be five through not through ten. Is. Is loose. I don't really think Miami or Charlotte are going to come up there. But Orlando is fighting to stay out of the plan.
- [19:26]
Bam McMahon
No, Orlando's fighting to stay out of the 9:10.
- [19:28]
Brian Windhorst
I apologize.
- [19:29]
Bam McMahon
Well, Orlando. Yeah.
- [19:31]
Brian Windhorst
Okay. The point is, this was a big game. This was a. This was a big game. Okay.
- [19:35]
Bam McMahon
Yeah.
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Brian Windhorst
And. And I know Orlando is not 100 healthy, but by the way, neither is Toronto. Toronto is missing some starters in this game. Dude.
- [19:41]
Bam McMahon
Yeah, I mean, by 52 and gave up a 31. Nothing wrong.
- [19:45]
Brian Windhorst
We hadn't got to that point yet. So the.
- [19:47]
Bam McMahon
God, what was get there?
- [19:49]
Brian Windhorst
Well, let's get to the important part. I'm setting it up. You know, I hadn't. Let me see what the freaking final was because it was 52 points, all right? 139, 87.
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Bam McMahon
And what did Moses say after the game? He did the. Hey, put this one on me. I didn't have my team prepared for the physicality.
- [20:08]
Brian Windhorst
You know how they show the before and after photos of presidents. Like, this is what they look like when they were elected. This is what they'd look like after four years. Jamal Mosley, that he's getting more white hairs by the. By the week, in that beard.
- [20:24]
Bam McMahon
He looks like a Florida resident. But when he says I didn't get him ready for the physicality, that is the most indirect way to say my team is soft that I've ever heard.
- [20:36]
Brian Windhorst
Well, he's blaming himself for it.
- [20:38]
Bam McMahon
I mean, that's an old Rick Carlisle trick. I take the blame. And while, you know, calling his team out.
- [20:45]
Brian Windhorst
Well, Paolo Banchero was horrendous in this game. Horrendous. 3 of 14, 5 turnovers. Just not getting it done. Not getting it done.
- [21:01]
Bam McMahon
Dude, they, they are. They squeaked out a win over the Kings to snap, I think, what was it, a seven game losing streak, if I'm not mistaken.
- [21:11]
Brian Windhorst
Yeah, and then they won by four.
- [21:12]
Bam McMahon
I mean, they are squeaking out a win over the K away from a really long losing streak. And to squeak that out and then followed up by losing to 52. By 52 points.
- [21:27]
Brian Windhorst
They gave up a 30, 310 run in the.
- [21:30]
Bam McMahon
Toronto is a solid team, but like the, it's not like the Raptors have been rolling. That is an embarrassment.
- [21:36]
Brian Windhorst
Fact.
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Tim Bontemps
You're going up a buck 39 to a Toronto team that's not a great shooting team. I mean, it's, it, it's, it's an indictment. It's not great.
- [21:45]
Bam McMahon
And it smells like quit.
- [21:48]
Tim Bontemps
It doesn't. It doesn't smell good. That's for sure. And you know, I mean, this weekend really, like we came into the weekend. And you know, you were saying, Brian, how bunched up the east from 5 to 10 is. It's not really that bunched up anymore. I mean, with, with Miami having this just absolutely awful loss to Indiana on Sunday night, with the Hornets having two games that could have been wins for them home against Philly on Saturday night. And then again, Boston's really good, but no Jason, no Jalen Brown, no Derrick White, and you drop both those games, those teams are now with 36 losses and the Sixers and Hawks are 33 and the Raptors are 32. Like it's, it's much more likely now that those three teams are fighting for five to seven. And Miami, Orlando, Orlando and then Miami and Charlotte are trying to go from 8 to 10.
- [22:43]
Bam McMahon
I just want to talk about Miami. In the last couple weeks, Miami's given up 136 to the Hornets in a loss, 134 to the Lakers in a loss, 123 to the Rockets in a loss, 136 to the spurs in a loss. They beat the CAVS, then gave up 149 to the Cavs in a loss and 135 to the Pacers in a loss.
- [23:06]
Tim Bontemps
Like, I'm sorry.
- [23:07]
Bam McMahon
Miami is an absolute defensive debacle right now and it's stunning.
- [23:13]
Brian Windhorst
So the Heat, as we're recording this, the Heat are in ninth place on Monday night. They are hosting the team. I'd like to talk about the seventh place Philadelphia 76ers who have won six of eight games. And on Saturday night, Tyrese Maxey came back from injury and for the first time in two months, Maxey embiid Paul George all in the lineup.
- [23:43]
Tim Bontemps
And Kelly Oubre is back. Who? I mean, Kelly o' Brie's become an important player for them and he'd been out for weeks with a knee injury too.
- [23:49]
Brian Windhorst
Kelly Oubre, I mean, I, I know he's an imperfect player. He's an unrestricted free agent.
- [23:55]
Bam McMahon
Yeah, so is Quentin Grimes.
- [23:57]
Brian Windhorst
There's not exactly like, and this isn't about him, it's with the 76. There's not exactly a ton of available two way wings.
- [24:06]
Tim Bontemps
Oh, he's reestablished. I mean, remember a couple years ago, Kelly oubre was a 20 point per game scorer in Charlotte who had no market at all.
- [24:15]
Brian Windhorst
He had to take the minimum.
- [24:16]
Tim Bontemps
He took the minimum from Philly and he didn't sign, I think till September.
- [24:19]
Brian Windhorst
I remember I, I talked to a team that I thought was interested in him and it was like July 2nd or 3rd, and he didn't have a place. And I talked to a team, I said, hey, are you still interested in New Brae? And the GM was like, yeah, Kelly's going to have to try again next year. He was sweetly what he said. I was like, wow.
- [24:41]
Tim Bontemps
Yeah. I mean, he's completely rehabilitated his career and turned himself into a really solid, dependable role player in Philly.
- [24:48]
Brian Windhorst
But anyway, like all of a sudden they're like 8ish players, deep and kind of potent.
- [24:58]
Bam McMahon
I mean, they've got, they've got as much star power as any team in the East. If they're all healthy, it's a big if and have been often.
- [25:05]
Brian Windhorst
It's impossible to count on. It's impossible.
- [25:07]
Tim Bontemps
We were sitting here at the All Star break, coming out of the break, yeah, Joel Abid sideline. You had Paul George shortly thereafter that around then get hit with this 25 game suspension. Maxi then gets the freak injury on his finger. Ubre had a knee sprain, had a freak collision, hurt his knee. Like you looked at him at that point and we were, we sat on the pod, we're like, look, these guys, very likely they're probably going to be either in the 910 or hoping to avoid the 9 10. But if they're down there and they're healthy at the end of the regular season and they got to win two games, they could be a team that could be a problem in the first round for somebody. If they have everybody available and now not only are they in that spot, they're a game out of fifth. And by the way, if you're the Cavs, if you're the Knicks, if you're Boston, like, I'm not saying that Philly's going to beat any of those teams, but to your point, McMahon, if they're healthy going into the playoffs, I don't want to see a Tyrese Maxey beat Paul George healthy team in the first round. Like, that's a lot of. That is a lot of star power and a coach who's obviously a Nick Nurse who's won a title, won a lot of playoff games. Like, it's not an easy, that's not an easy draw for somebody.
- [26:21]
Brian Windhorst
So I didn't see the game on Saturday. Bon temps. I think you were watching it.
- [26:24]
Tim Bontemps
I was.
- [26:25]
Brian Windhorst
So they, those three, Maxi, George and Embiid had 81 points, 26 rebounds, 12 assists. I don't even think they, it sounded like they didn't even play that well.
- [26:36]
Bam McMahon
I thought he played pretty damn well.
- [26:38]
Tim Bontemps
I mean, Maxi was correct. I mean, Charlotte Brandon Miller came out like an absolute human torch. I think he had 16 in the first quarter and eight. Charlotte jumped up by 10 or 15 and from like the end of the first quarter until midway through the fourth, the Sixers kind of just kept chipping away at the lead. Eventually got ahead, then Lamelo made some shots late. Looked like that might be what would get Charlotte to win. And then the final 90 seconds, he had a couple rough plays. Paul George, Joel Embiid and Tyrese Maxey each got fouled on consecutive possessions by the Hornets. They made their free throws at least sort of. I think they went 4 for 6 and Philly ultimately survived with a huge win. But if they can beat, if they could beat the Heat Monday night, I think they then have the Wizards at home and they on Wednesday and at least are, I should say in Washington. But it would give them a real opportunity to get out of the play in. And if there is a team that needs the week off to make sure their guys are ready to go, it's the Sixers. Like again that this is not a team that needs to be playing extra games.
- [27:46]
Brian Windhorst
True.
- [27:47]
Tim Bontemps
If they could somehow get to fifth or sixth, you know, and get that week off. By the way, we've mentioned this a couple times, the fact that Philly has roared back into the picture, it makes those two games between Cleveland and Atlanta in the third and second to last games of the season quite fascinating to see what the Cavs do in those games. Either a, do they try to stay ahead of or leapfrog the Knicks and win those games or do they potentially try to make sure they stay in four and possibly also avoid getting Philly? If things line up in a certain way, it's gonna be very interesting to see how the Cavs handle those.
- [28:25]
Brian Windhorst
The Cavs potentially could have Atlanta, Detroit, Boston, New York or Philly, Boston slash New York, then possibly Detroit. Which would you pick if you could pick? No offense to anybody.
- [28:49]
Tim Bontemps
All I will say is, I mean you can draw that up if you want. I will go back to 2014 when the Nets totally chickened out of playing the Chicago Bulls in the first round, tank their way into playing the Raptors in the first round on purpose because the year before Joaquim Noah on one leg had beat the Nets by himself, which is what led to the Kevin Garnett and Paul Pierce trade. And then the Nets played a hard fought series against the Heat and lost in five games when the Heat were healthy and in the conference finals when I think they were a better team than Indiana that year, Dwayne Wade was playing on one leg and the series won seven games and the Nets might have made the finals. And I always bring that example up as a. As a reminder that, yeah, you could try to game out the playoffs to win a round or to win two rounds, but to me, if you're good enough to win, you don't need to try to mess with the matchups to get a more favorable matchup. You should just play who's in front of you.
- [29:53]
Brian Windhorst
So, Atlanta. So Toronto was undefeated against the Cavs this year. But. But all of the games were over before Thanksgiving. Doesn't mean that they wouldn't do it again in the playoffs. But, like, the Cavs are vastly different team. Atlanta has the hardest schedule coming in. Largely, they only play one tanker.
- [30:15]
Bam McMahon
That's because they just played them all.
- [30:19]
Tim Bontemps
My prediction is Atlanta.
- [30:20]
Brian Windhorst
That's predicated on the Cavs going full power in those two games.
- [30:23]
Tim Bontemps
Yes, my prediction is Atlanta will be in the plan, but it does. It does come down to those games. Like, what are they going to do?
- [30:32]
Bam McMahon
Atlanta in, Philly out. Philly.
- [30:35]
Tim Bontemps
No, I think Philly will be in the. I think Philly will be in five or six. That's what I'm saying.
- [30:39]
Bam McMahon
Out of the play in. Top six.
- [30:40]
Tim Bontemps
Oh, out of the play in. Yeah, I think Toronto. Yeah, they. I think they will be top Sixers in the other way.
- [30:46]
Brian Windhorst
Toronto has some tankers on that schedule. They got Brooklyn, Sack and the Grizzlies. Well, if Toronto had lost today, you know, because Toronto has two games with the Heat as well. Where. Where are you putting them?
- [31:02]
Bam McMahon
Listen, man, that's what I'm saying.
- [31:04]
Tim Bontemps
Like, there's.
- [31:04]
Bam McMahon
There's all these tankers, and then there's the. The sad state of Florida. Like, these Florida teams are disasters right now.
- [31:12]
Brian Windhorst
Well, I will. Let me just say that, because we talked about Knipple going 4 of 16 over the weekend. Lamelo just to. I just want to. LaMelo was 8 of 30 from 3.
- [31:24]
Bam McMahon
Yeah. And LaMelo, he got hot there in the fourth quarter to kind of give the Hornets a chance to pull it out against the Sixers. But it was. I've. I've had to dial way back on my LaMelo criticism this year because he has been a massive factor in Charlotte's turnaround. That was overall a wet fart of a performance, though, against the Sixers for him.
- [31:48]
Brian Windhorst
Yeah, they had a. A big weekend in Charlotte and they just didn't. They didn't get it done.
- [31:51]
Tim Bontemps
Well, like, it's worth remembering, the Hornets have basically played one real game. Lamello's entire career, right? They played the one playing.
- [31:58]
Bam McMahon
No, they played two playing games. They got blown out both times.
- [32:00]
Tim Bontemps
Okay, well, sorry then. Two I forgot about.
- [32:03]
Brian Windhorst
Did he play him?
- [32:04]
Bam McMahon
Both of them?
- [32:05]
Tim Bontemps
He played in one of them at least. The point is they have playing games.
- [32:08]
Bam McMahon
Once they happen, they don't exist anymore.
- [32:11]
Brian Windhorst
You know what? That's true.
- [32:13]
Tim Bontemps
So they. This is, you know, that was a huge, this was a huge weekend for them. And like, you know, like Saturdays was a great game. Like, I, I don't really think they.
- [32:23]
Bam McMahon
No, it was great game.
- [32:24]
Tim Bontemps
Lamelo had some rough plays late, but I didn't feel like Charlotte like totally
- [32:28]
Bam McMahon
torched the game shooting night. Lamelo had a bad shoot.
- [32:32]
Tim Bontemps
Yeah, Sixers pulled it out and won. Like, but it was a great game. But the, this is all really good experience points for a young team that's had a great turnaround and has got itself in a totally different place than we ever expected they would be in. And these are the growing pains that you would expect them to have. And you know, I hope they get into the playoffs because I think it would be awesome for a young team like this to get in the postseason and get some experience and like, look, the way they play with, the speed they play with, the threes they get up, the athleticism they have. You know, if they get Detroit in the first round with Cade banged up or you know, if they get the Knicks in the first round, like, they're not going to be an easy team to play. I really don't expect them to win a series.
- [33:15]
Bam McMahon
More Hoop Collective Podcast after this Partner
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- [35:07]
Bam McMahon
Is there a better 24 and under trio in the league than Lamelo, Brandon Miller, Con and Knipple.
- [35:14]
Tim Bontemps
I take the spurs guys.
- [35:16]
Bam McMahon
Yeah, that's fair. That is fair.
- [35:19]
Tim Bontemps
Separate of the spurs guys.
- [35:22]
Bam McMahon
It's a short list.
- [35:23]
Tim Bontemps
It's a short list.
- [35:25]
Brian Windhorst
Who will be a player in year after year three. Dylan Harper or Con Knippel?
- [35:33]
Tim Bontemps
I'm. I am all in on Dylan Harper, so I will say Dylan Harper, but I. I think Con Canipple is going to be really good too.
- [35:41]
Bam McMahon
I don't know man. Concanipple has a chance to be.
- [35:44]
Tim Bontemps
I think Khan's great.
- [35:46]
Bam McMahon
Klay Thompson esque. Plus he's, you know, Clay was a pretty damn good defensive player before the injuries, but Canipe was an incredible defense, not just a shooter. He does a lot of things other than shooting the ball. He's. He's pretty damn good.
- [36:01]
Tim Bontemps
Khan's awesome. But I'm taking six. Six point guard who's built like a tank and it's awesome. Like I. But again, I. This is a. They're both, I think, going to be fantastic players.
- [36:14]
Brian Windhorst
So let me ask you this. Who's. Who's third on the Rookie of the Year ballot?
- [36:20]
Bam McMahon
I haven't.
- [36:21]
Brian Windhorst
Yeah.
- [36:22]
Tim Bontemps
Is it? I think so.
- [36:23]
Bam McMahon
That would be my guess. I haven't studied it. I. You know the questions. Are you going who. Who you put in first, who you put in second and then whatever.
- [36:32]
Tim Bontemps
I think DJ is a pretty, I mean I. I'll double check the stats in case I'm like obviously forgetting somebody, but I think Vijay's a pretty clear third behind Khan and Cooper and whatever order you want to have, man.
- [36:44]
Brian Windhorst
Bob Tubbs, you know, pretty soon there's going to be a straw poll.
- [36:50]
Bam McMahon
Ooh, baby.
- [36:51]
Tim Bontemps
That's correct.
- [36:52]
Brian Windhorst
Would you consider adding Rookie of the Year to the straw poll?
- [36:55]
Tim Bontemps
Perhaps? That would be part of it. We'll see. Oh, wow. That'd be great.
- [37:00]
Brian Windhorst
Yeah.
- [37:00]
Bam McMahon
You know, there's going to be a straw poll coming up. The little MVP race. Like the West.
- [37:06]
Brian Windhorst
Well, I was trying to talk about the Rookie of the Year race. You just blasted over me.
- [37:09]
Tim Bontemps
Oh, sorry.
- [37:10]
Bam McMahon
I'll just point out. Okay.
- [37:11]
Tim Bontemps
He just keeps taking the wheel and
- [37:12]
Bam McMahon
yanking it to the minutes. There's minutes police in okc. They're concerned that Wimby hasn't played that many minutes this year. Anyways, let's get back to Rookie of the Year.
- [37:21]
Brian Windhorst
Well, there is. That is a thing that is happening in. In the. In the. In the. The pushback of the MVP thing was that Victor has played fewer minutes than LeBron, who is ineligible for the awards. And Victor. Victor is not yet eligible. But towards being eligible, and he's played, like, way less minutes than Cade. Although if Cade doesn't play again in the regular season, I think Victor is likely to.
- [37:44]
Tim Bontemps
Which, by the way, I think is a very fair criticism.
- [37:48]
Brian Windhorst
Yeah, well, Victor is in. This. Is in this lane where he's played a bunch of games where he played over 20 minutes, which is the threshold, barely, but played like 24, 25, as
- [38:03]
Tim Bontemps
McMahon has pointed out. And some 20s came back. He came back and was playing 20 minutes and two seconds, which I'm not criticizing him for. But, like, again, like, if you're. If you're. If you're trying to make a decision on who to vote for for this award, like Victor's point the other day when he gave the soliloquy about how important defense is, obviously is a very valid point in his favor. And the fact that he has not played nearly as many minutes as some of these other guys, I think is also a valid point against his candidacy.
- [38:37]
Brian Windhorst
Absolutely. And look, I will just. This is what I say about all awards. I understand that the games in March and April feel more important, but when you are evaluating the award, you know, you should take into account the entire season.
- [38:55]
Bam McMahon
You know what also is an indication of value?
- [39:00]
Tim Bontemps
The scoreboard.
- [39:01]
Bam McMahon
When you're on the floor, it's a good indication of value. There's only one person in the league who has a better overall plus minus than Victor. Emanyama. Now, it's the. His primary competition for the MVP. But Shea is plus 677 in 2107 minutes. Wimby in a mere 1725 minutes is a plus 630 this year.
- [39:23]
Brian Windhorst
It's crazy. I just, There was a, as I watched today, there was a. Shay only hit 13 in this game, but there was a play, you know, he had gotten to the elbows, you know, as he does in the fourth quarter. And then they ran a pick and roll and they put Towns on the pick and roll, of course, and Towns sort of went and stood on the elbow. And Shea comes off the pick, stares at Town standing at the elbow. I was like, oh, okay, and takes a half step back and hits a three. You know, it was in the round, in the fourth quarter when they're winning the game and I'm just like the, the quote echoes in my head as I watch it. I have the answers. It just, I have to wait for the questions so they knows all the
- [40:03]
Bam McMahon
answers to the test.
- [40:04]
Tim Bontemps
I mean, it's, well, listen, I mean, the spurs, the spurs play Chicago Monday night. I think we can assume they'll beat the Tank and Bulls, and if they do, they'll finish up a two month stretch in which they went 25 and two and they'll have gained one game in the standings.
- [40:29]
Bam McMahon
Yeah, they've lost a game with Wimby on the floor since the start of February.
- [40:33]
Brian Windhorst
Right. Well, the other side of that is, you know, the, the Thunder have gone like, you know, 20, 20 and 2 and they've, they've gained a game, they've
- [40:42]
Tim Bontemps
only gained one game of going 25 and 2. And that's with the Thunder dealing with a lot of injuries. And I'll, I mean, we'll see where the straw poll is at when it comes out. But I, you know, I suspect that it'll be a somewhat similar order to the last time. And if Shea does win it, it's going to be because they held off the spurs. Because if Victor had, if the spurs had gotten ahead of the Thunder, I, I, like I said at the time, I, I think Victor be in pretty decent shape. But. And he might still win anyway. I mean, his, he's incredible.
- [41:13]
Brian Windhorst
But I'm relieved Victor's playing in that game on Monday because the PGA Tour is in San Antonio this week. It's the.
- [41:21]
Bam McMahon
How are we going to do golf and soccer talk?
- [41:23]
Brian Windhorst
Texas Open?
- [41:24]
Tim Bontemps
What? Why? Where does Victor come into this?
- [41:28]
Brian Windhorst
Well, I had, you know, some friends from the PGA Tour ask me last week, like, we're going to buy tickets for this game.
- [41:35]
Tim Bontemps
Some friends from the PGA Tour. McMahon.
- [41:37]
Brian Windhorst
Yes. And they said, hey, is, are you sure? You know, do you think it's Safe to buy a ticket for this game. You know, they're expensive.
- [41:45]
Bam McMahon
They're PGA people. They're rich.
- [41:47]
Brian Windhorst
I know they're very rich. That's true. That's not the point. The point was they were trying to ask me whether I thought Victor would play in this game. And I assessed the situation and said, yes, I think Victor will play also.
- [41:57]
Bam McMahon
Victor's going to play in as many games as he can. He wants.
- [42:01]
Tim Bontemps
He's got to make sure he gets his awards.
- [42:02]
Brian Windhorst
I just wanted to make sure that there was no shenanigans. And you know, he's not on the injury report.
- [42:07]
Bam McMahon
When. When do you wanted to talk Rookie of the Year? Before this thing got completely derailed.
- [42:11]
Brian Windhorst
Yeah. No, you. You pushed it off. It was your thing.
- [42:14]
Bam McMahon
That's it. You're the one who has the key.
- [42:15]
Brian Windhorst
By the way, speaking. McMahon and I went to dinner the other day.
- [42:20]
Tim Bontemps
That's unfortunate.
- [42:21]
Brian Windhorst
McMahon didn't pay for.
- [42:22]
Tim Bontemps
Also neither did you.
- [42:25]
Brian Windhorst
I just said McMahon didn't pay for it. And we went to this wonderful.
- [42:28]
Tim Bontemps
We got alligator arms, twin tourist over there.
- [42:31]
Brian Windhorst
We went to this wonderful pizza place in LA Pizzeria Bianco, a well known NBA establishment. Yes. The owner, Chris Bianco was there and he was talking about watching this. He's a big Suns fan. He's a Phoenix guy. He's talking about watching the Suns G League team. Yes, he was evaluating the Suns. He loves draft picks. He was watching, you know, Maluwatch and Fleming on the G League team a few months ago. Anyway, we get the pizzas, see, and McMahon just starts eating my pizza.
- [43:06]
Bam McMahon
No, it was put in front of me, so I thought it was the one that I ordered.
- [43:10]
Brian Windhorst
Did it look anything like the pizza that you ordered?
- [43:12]
Bam McMahon
I didn't know they said some special thing. I just said, sure, give me the special. It looks special.
- [43:18]
Tim Bontemps
I certainly believe McMahon having no idea what pizza he is being brought. That tracks.
- [43:23]
Brian Windhorst
Yeah.
- [43:23]
Tim Bontemps
Anyway, put it in front of me.
- [43:25]
Bam McMahon
I only ate like 33% of yours and all of mine.
- [43:30]
Brian Windhorst
Anyway, it was a great dinner. All right.
- [43:33]
Bam McMahon
Actually, hey, cut that because I'm getting diet and conditioning criticism from the IT department lately, so.
- [43:40]
Brian Windhorst
Okay, well, it was a personal pizza. It wasn't, you know. Anyway, where do you think the race is for rookie of the year? Bon Temps. I mean, like, I. I mean, I don't know if, if you want to open that can of worms, but I, I kind of would be interested.
- [43:55]
Tim Bontemps
I don't know where it's at.
- [43:57]
Brian Windhorst
I don't either. That's kind of why I wonder if you could tack it on.
- [44:00]
Bam McMahon
Let's look at the. According to DraftKings. Last I checked. Let me, let me get the fresh odds here.
- [44:09]
Brian Windhorst
Jackson has it.
- [44:10]
Tim Bontemps
I think Khan is in first place. But you know, I mean the Hornets had an incredible run and Khan had a lot of.
- [44:17]
Brian Windhorst
Con is minus 250 and Cooper is plus 1 90.
- [44:21]
Tim Bontemps
Yeah, like I think it's close enough to where we'll see what happens over the final couple weeks of the season. I mean, Cooper has a couple of huge games that could spin things back in the other direction. Like look, if con had had 35 in one of these two games this weekend or both and the Hornets got a win or two, that was a huge opportunity for him to push it back the other way. He did not. He did not play well in either game. Like, I think it's close enough that a couple of performances either way down the stretch could be enough to win it. Because I would say that generally in this situation, Cooper Flagg would win Rookie of the Year. He's seen as the better prospect. He's probably going to be a tremendous long term player. Obviously think Khan is going to be a great long term player too, but like if it's a tie or close to it, you tend to default to the guy who's the higher level long term player. I mean, it's not a perfect comparison, but this is sort of what happened with Victor Wembanyama and Chad Holmgren a couple years ago. Like, Chad had a great year on a way, way better team than the Hornets, obviously with the Thunder, but Victor had a great season. He was seen as a generational player. He wound up winning the award running away down the stretch. Khan has had a better year. He's got the all time rookie record for threes. He's played great. Charlotte has had this unbelievable surge. Cooper's had injuries. The Mavs have been tanking. Like everything is broken.
- [45:48]
Brian Windhorst
Yeah, the tanking aspect of it complicates it. Even though you would never. When you watch him play, he's, you know, he's going full force.
- [45:55]
Tim Bontemps
It's just because to me the Mavs have just been so irrelevant. Like there hasn't been any moments for Cooper to like capture any attention really. Even though whether he's playing hard or not, whereas Charlotte has had all this attention.
- [46:06]
Bam McMahon
The last time he really was able to capture national attention was when these guys played each other and Cooper had 49, Khan had 34. The Hornets went, you know, down at the, at the end, but it was the most points ever scored by a teenager in an NBA game. Now he had the foot sprain that kept him out longer than the Mavs anticipated. I think it ended up being like, like eight games there.
- [46:30]
Brian Windhorst
Also, just for rookie of the year, you do not have the games played threshold.
- [46:34]
Tim Bontemps
Yeah, no games play requirement for that.
- [46:37]
Bam McMahon
And he's going to play 65 anyways. But yeah, no games played. But like Khan, it's not, he's not just like been a volume three point shooter. Like he's, I don't, I haven't checked today after a couple off shooting nights, but he's shooting well. Like he was well over 43% going into the weekend. And he's, you know, he, he's been a good rebounder. He's been a much better playmaker than people thought.
- [47:04]
Tim Bontemps
43% from 3 on 8 attempts a game. I mean it's just an unbelievable, just an unbelievable, unbelievably efficient season from a guy coming in the league. And by the way, doing it on a team that has had this incredible turnaround has been a huge part of their success. You know, all that stuff, it all is broken in his direction. But it's close enough where like I said, I, I think the ball is sort of on Cooper's racket and if he has a great two weeks, I think people, my guess is in a situation like this, people will be trying to find ways to vote for cooperation Cooper in the end and if he gives them reasons, they'll vote for him.
- [47:46]
Bam McMahon
Well and then. And the other thing is Cooper. So guys as rookies who have averaged over 20 points, six rebounds and four assists, I'll just tell you since the ABA NBA merger, which is damn near 50 years now, Larry Bird, Michael Jordan, Luka Doncic and Cooper flag, it's pretty good company. Three guys who won rookie of the year and ended up having decent careers for themselves. One still in process, but yeah, so, I mean it's pretty good company now.
- [48:24]
Tim Bontemps
There's not a bad choice.
- [48:25]
Bam McMahon
But Khan is like his, his three point shooting is absolutely historic. He looks like he's going to lead the league. And threes made just blew the rookie three point record out of the water on good efficiency. And he's like you know, 19 over 5 over 3. Like his counting numbers aren't that far off.
- [48:48]
Tim Bontemps
No, I mean this is not like say when Malcolm Brock did one rookie of the year when Joel played I think 32 games as a rookie.
- [48:56]
Bam McMahon
It's not normal to factor in winning in the rookie of the year race because typically the Top rookies are on terrible teams. You mentioned Chet was an exception, but like, I'm sorry, Wimby is just a different level than Chet.
- [49:12]
Tim Bontemps
No, for sure, yeah, whatever. Like Chet's really good.
- [49:15]
Bam McMahon
Wimby's. Yeah, Wimby's on a completely different level. So you know, it's interesting that. How much do you weigh winning and impact on winning? Frankly, I don't care what Cooper's doing. The Mavericks weren't winning a lot this year, period.
- [49:32]
Brian Windhorst
You know, I went back and you know, cause does, you know, you guys know, I keep thinking about LeBron's rookie year. When it comes to Cooper, LeBron's rookie year, there was Carmelo and LeBron and you know, the, the, the, the case for Carmel, the case for Carmelo was that the nut then he was leading the Nuggets to the playoffs. And the Cavs missed the playoffs only by a sing year. Even though they were like 12 or 13 games under 500 was back in the state. You know, there's a couple of years in there where the Eastern Conference had literally had teams 10 games under five. They only missed the game by, they only missed the playoffs by one. But I, I couldn't remember how bad the losing streak was, but I went back and looked. They actually had a stretch right now right at this time of the season, like late March, early April where they lost 11 of 12. And even though LeBron was putting up numbers, you know, the, the, the, the Nuggets were in the process of like finalizing their playoff position. Even though LeBron was putting up numbers, like they lost 11 to 12 games and there were people going like this, give it to Carmelo, this 19 year old, like he can't get it done. Like, you know, and so it just reminds me, you know, this is, you know, the Cavs weren't taken, they were trying to make the playoffs and Carmelo
- [50:48]
Tim Bontemps
had a great year and was a primary guy on a team that broke through, made the playoffs.
- [50:52]
Bam McMahon
Right.
- [50:53]
Brian Windhorst
You know, Carmelo was the 3 pick. You know, obviously Carmelo Fanfare was a national champion, but you know, Khan was a fourth pick.
- [50:59]
Tim Bontemps
There's a lot of parallels across the board and ultimately LeBron won. And you know, I, I, I don't know where that one, that one is going to be really interesting to see where it lands.
- [51:09]
Brian Windhorst
So it wasn't the same. We had more voters back then, but the, the, the votes were 78 to 40. First place votes. LeBron.
- [51:18]
Tim Bontemps
Yeah, two to one. Yeah.
- [51:20]
Bam McMahon
So, and, and listen, if there was a redraft, Cooper would go number one every single time. Like, that's not the debate's not who would you.
- [51:29]
Brian Windhorst
That's true. And you know what? LeBron. I don't would LeBron. I bet he had to. He would have had to, right?
- [51:34]
Bam McMahon
100%. I mean, LeBron would go, no, no.
- [51:37]
Brian Windhorst
There were some people who were pretty dogmatic in the national media back then who were like, nope, I'm. I'm voting for Carmelo.
- [51:43]
Tim Bontemps
So LeBron would have gone number one. Cooper would have gone number one. And by the way, to go back to an argument familiar this year, Cooper would go number one in this draft too.
- [51:53]
Bam McMahon
Cooper would have gone number one in every single draft probably over the last decade, with one exception. You ain't going number one over wimby.
- [52:01]
Tim Bontemps
That's right.
- [52:01]
Brian Windhorst
You know what? Maybe Zion, real talk like that, that
- [52:04]
Tim Bontemps
could be like, I think you go ahead of Zion too.
- [52:06]
Brian Windhorst
That could be the, the sort of the defining thing. If anybody's fighting over, you know, Con and Cooper, you just.
- [52:13]
Bam McMahon
Yeah, but here's the thing. That's not the, it's not the who's going to have the best career award.
- [52:18]
Brian Windhorst
I understand.
- [52:19]
Bam McMahon
Rookie of the certainly.
- [52:20]
Brian Windhorst
But you, you. My point is the performance in the
- [52:23]
Tim Bontemps
rookie year tiebreaker could end up being. Who do you think is going to be the better long term player.
- [52:27]
Brian Windhorst
That's what the case was for LeBron
- [52:28]
Tim Bontemps
versus it's as competitive a race as we've seen in a very long time for the award.
- [52:33]
Bam McMahon
It's also the only reason to bother watching the Mavericks for the rest of the season.
- [52:38]
Tim Bontemps
That is true.
- [52:39]
Bam McMahon
Which I'm not doing that much of, just to be clear. At least not in person.
- [52:44]
Brian Windhorst
Yeah, you're. You're up at Oklahoma City.
- [52:47]
Bam McMahon
I'm going to see him when Luca comes through Easter weekend.
- [52:50]
Brian Windhorst
Do I want to give myself the
- [52:52]
Bam McMahon
return of Luca for Easter? Is that, is that symbolic?
- [52:54]
Brian Windhorst
Well, speaking of Luca, finally happened. McMahon.
- [52:58]
Bam McMahon
Oh, gosh. Right before the Lizards come to town, man. Golly gee, shucks. Put your feet up, Luca. Your teammates can take care of this one without you. Get a few days off fresh. No need to peel this one. The 16th technical foul. He. Now he's, he's, he's one for four. Getting that the suspension tee rescinded. I'm sorry. Three for four. One for four. As far as the suspension actually sticking
- [53:26]
Brian Windhorst
now, I actually thought this one was potentially softer than the last one, to be honest with you. But I guess there was contact made between two players. So
- [53:38]
Bam McMahon
again, honestly, now you've got, you've got a You know, two more until your next suspension. You can probably get through the rest of the season without picking up two more. This is not the worst break in the world for the Lakers.
- [53:51]
Brian Windhorst
And Luca, I will say number 17 is definitely coming.
- [53:55]
Bam McMahon
He'll probably avoid freebie.
- [53:57]
Brian Windhorst
Yes. Yeah, I mean he, the fines he's getting are relatively high now, which each tech.
- [54:04]
Bam McMahon
But well, the suspension cost him however many hundred thousand that he gets.
- [54:08]
Brian Windhorst
250,000, give or take, I think.
- [54:11]
Bam McMahon
Yeah, so but let's, I mean seriously though, like this is. If you're gonna get a one game suspension, an automatic one game suspension, this is pretty good timing because you've got the Lakers, I'm sorry, the Lizards and it's the front end of a back to back. So you'll be fresh for the Cavs on Tuesday and, and then you've got a couple days later the Thunder, few days off the Mavericks and that's obviously not a big game. But for Luca, you know, he would like to score like 84 points or so against the Mavericks if he can. Then the Thunder again, Warriors, sons Jazz. But anyways, so you know, a couple games against the Thunder, the Cavs in there, it's like there is a tough little stretch schedule coming up. It's not a bad time for him to miss the first end of a back to back.
- [54:59]
Brian Windhorst
Do we want to talk about this tanking stuff or should we just let McMahon go to bet?
- [55:04]
Tim Bontemps
Adam Silver talked a lot about how the incentives are going to change in these new tanking rules. The incentives do not change at all in these new tanking rules that have been proposed. They disincentivize losing some, but they don't incentivize winning, we would still have the end of the season be a morass of teams at best, not caring at all. And at worst, some of these proposals, you'd have these middle tier teams trying to make sure they're in the top 10 to have a higher chance of moving up in the draft. And I just continue to be baffled by the fact that the league refuses to institute some sort of idea to incentivize winning in the final third of the season. Which again, if we're just talking about this purely from a business perspective, the vast majority of the NBA audience from a casual perspective, tunes in the day after the Super Bowl. And so to me, as I wrote about in the piece about this last month, if you could maximize the competitive portion of the schedule from the day after the super bowl until the end of the NBA Finals and say that every single game in that period of time, every team in the league is motivated to win. I think that would be great for us as a company that broadcasts the games. I think it'd be great for the NBA to have that as a product. I think it'd be great for the trade deadline to have all these bad teams like they did this year have reason to get better. And it would be a much better product than what we're seeing right now where we're just trying to avoid all these games where nobody cares. And none of these proposals change that yet.
- [56:44]
Brian Windhorst
That is not one of the proposals which you just laid out.
- [56:46]
Bam McMahon
Wait. I'm baffled by Bontem's definition of really quick. That was a soliloquy.
- [56:53]
Tim Bontemps
That was about a minute. Could have been worse.
- [56:55]
Brian Windhorst
I also will say, regardless of whatever it is, these are very complex for teams to be able to vote on them in May. Yeah.
- [57:05]
Bam McMahon
And honestly, in at least one of those proposals, I don't see why any team would ever try to make the play in.
- [57:14]
Tim Bontemps
Right.
- [57:14]
Bam McMahon
You can have teams like.
- [57:15]
Brian Windhorst
I don't really want to go over them.
- [57:17]
Tim Bontemps
Yeah. We don't. We don't need to get into the details on it.
- [57:20]
Bam McMahon
Has to be very careful about making one of the incentives. You benefit a lot by not being a playing team.
- [57:26]
Tim Bontemps
You got to be really careful that. Because you'll get tanking. I would agree. I. And I think it definitely would be in play. The other thing I would say is the NBA I think does a lot of times ignores the fact that fans should be able to sit at a bar and have a beer and not have to have a calculus book to understand stuff like where is my team going to draft like that. This shouldn't be that complicated.
- [57:50]
Brian Windhorst
Boy, that is exactly right. But forget about sitting at a bar. Two, two. Two guys with advanced degrees sitting at lunch on their break at from MIT are going to have to work to get figured this out.
- [58:06]
Tim Bontemps
Sure. But. But beyond that, like you should be able to sit and have a beer and watch a game and not have to go. Not have to like figure out some crazy rubric of where my team is going to draft.
- [58:18]
Brian Windhorst
What's our two year bomb?
- [58:19]
Bam McMahon
Tim's. This proposal that didn't make the league's top three but was sent to us by an executive last week. One rule. If a team owns their first round draft pick at any point during the season of the current league year, that pick moves to the last pick in the round or to a coin flip for last pick if there's multiple teams. In other words, you have to trade your pick. So that's the one thing, that's the one thing I've seen that would eliminate any benefit to losing.
- [58:49]
Tim Bontemps
Yes. I love this guy. He's a very bright guy. But again, as I said to him and to you privately, the idea of having every single draft pick traded also is just. It's. We don't need to get to that point. That's too much. It's too much. It's a creative proposal. I appreciate it. We don't need to every single trade theft draft.
- [59:14]
Brian Windhorst
I need a simple proposal. I need a proposal that's not.
- [59:16]
Bam McMahon
Which again, I have a simple proposal. Enforce the anti tanking rules also. And I am dead serious about this. Losing teams should have to have league approval for their 10 day contracts. I'm dead serious about that. This, it's a new trend. I'm not going to say where it
- [59:39]
Tim Bontemps
started,
- [59:42]
Bam McMahon
but intentionally signing mediocre G league players to 10 day deals and playing them 40 plus minutes per game. The league should be able to veto that.
- [59:55]
Brian Windhorst
Not. Not more complex.
- [59:57]
Tim Bontemps
Yes.
- [59:57]
Brian Windhorst
More simple.
- [59:58]
Tim Bontemps
Yes.
- [59:59]
Bam McMahon
Well, yeah, simple. You can't sign. You can't sign sucky G League players and play in 45 minutes.
- [60:04]
Brian Windhorst
You're making a point and that's fine. But that's, you know, if they instituted
- [60:08]
Tim Bontemps
the plan I wrote about two months ago or a month and a half ago, it, it would be very simple to understand and it would lead to a lot better competition when everybody tunes in to watch the sport. I have yet to hear a good argument against it. The one that's been said to me a bunch is we'd have more tanking the first 2/3 of the season. I call absolute BS on that. This season has been as bad as you could possibly be from that standpoint. And again from a business perspective, it would be great for the league if we were just talking over the final two months of the season about everybody gearing up, trying to win every game possible. And that would be awesome. So I, I'm just, I'm over all of this crap. It, it, it just continues to frustrate me that we're going to end up in some world where the league continues to make these proposals more complicated to Brian's point, without actually fixing the problem.
- [61:00]
Brian Windhorst
I actually believe that was, it was such a thud, these proposals that I actually think none of them are going. That's what I think.
- [61:09]
Bam McMahon
Here's my proposal. I think Bontemp should be the commissioner.
- [61:13]
Brian Windhorst
I will say this. Bontemps is not afraid to issue an opinion and to issue an edict.
- [61:18]
Bam McMahon
Yeah.
- [61:19]
Brian Windhorst
I'm not sure that his reign would last for the 30 years of David
- [61:23]
Tim Bontemps
Stern, but I don't. But Adam has a very. Adam has a very hard job. I think we all would agree Bontemps
- [61:30]
Brian Windhorst
gray area does not exist to Bontemps.
- [61:32]
Tim Bontemps
Listen, all I'm going to if you're going to say we're going to change the incentives, change the incentives. Actually do it. None of these proposals do that.
- [61:42]
Bam McMahon
Bond Timps for a commissioner and Bond Timps for Pro Basketball Writers association president. I'll be the campaign manager on both of those.
- [61:51]
Tim Bontemps
That's a truly fantastic.
- [61:52]
Brian Windhorst
Let me tell you something, neither one of them are happening. Yeah. Let me know how the vote goes from the membership. All right, that's enough. On tanking. Thank you very much to our producers Devon, Mark and Jackson, who spent this weekend looking at the cherry blossoms in D.C. i'll bet that was wonderful, Jackson. I hope you enjoyed it. Thank you to Bontemps. Thank you to McMahon. Thank you for watching and listening to the Hoop Collective. We'll talk to you later this week. At tab we're on for the NBA
- [62:35]
Tim Bontemps
Missed by one on any Thursday or Friday NBA matchup, if your player points
- [62:42]
Brian Windhorst
leg misses by one, TAB will still
- [62:44]
Bam McMahon
pay it out as a winner.
- [62:46]
Tim Bontemps
Now that's something to shout about.
- [62:49]
Bam McMahon
Tab we're on only applies to selected player points markets.
- [62:53]
Tim Bontemps
Leg must miss by one point. Other legs in multi and same game multi bets must also win for bet
- [62:57]
Bam McMahon
to be a winner. What are you really gambling with?
- [62:59]
Tim Bontemps
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