Thunder Take Control + Can Knicks Recover From Collapse?

Summary

Hoop Collective Podcast Summary Episode Title: Thunder Take Control + Can Knicks Recover From Collapse?
Release Date: May 23, 2025

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In the latest episode of the Hoop Collective Podcast, hosted by Brian Windhorst alongside ESPN insiders Tim Bontemps and Bobby Marks, the team dives deep into the tumultuous NBA playoff landscape, focusing particularly on the Oklahoma City Thunder's resurgence and the New York Knicks' recent heartbreaking collapse. Released on May 23, 2025, this episode offers insightful analysis, player spotlights, and candid discussions that capture the essence of the current NBA season.

Oklahoma City Thunder's Defensive Dominance

The conversation kicks off with a comprehensive analysis of the Thunder's impressive defensive performance in the Western Conference Finals against the Minnesota Timberwolves. Brian Windhorst praises the Thunder's strategy, describing their approach as "paint by numbers," where their consistent defense frustrates opponents across the lineup.

Brian Windhorst [01:46]: "I wouldn't say the Wolves are too proud right now. They're down 0-2 to the Thunder after game two of the Western Conference Finals on Thursday night."

Tim Bontemps highlights the Thunder's efficiency, particularly under pressure, noting their ability to capitalize on turnovers.

Tim Bontemps [05:08]: "The Thunder led the league this year in points off turnovers with 21.8 per game. In the playoffs, they've cranked that up to over 25."

Spotlight on Shea and Jalen Williams

A significant portion of the discussion centers around Shea (Shea?), the Thunder's MVP, and his stellar performance. Bobby Marks elaborates on Shea's consistent scoring and defensive prowess, emphasizing his role as the backbone of the team.

Bobby Marks [02:46]: "Shay got to the foul line, scored 38 points, which tied his playoff career high. That is a heck of a line."

Tim Bontemps complements Shea's performance by highlighting Jalen Williams' contributions, positioning him as a crucial all-star sidekick.

Tim Bontemps [03:10]: "Jalen Williams had a hell of a performance, picking apart the Timberwolves' mid-range defense alongside Shea."

New York Knicks' Collapse in the Playoffs

Transitioning to the Eastern Conference, the hosts dissect the Knicks' shocking collapse in a pivotal playoff game against the Indiana Pacers. Brian Windhorst and Bobby Marks express their astonishment at the Knicks' inability to secure a lead despite having a commanding position.

Brian Windhorst [36:14]: "The Knicks blew the game even when they were up by 17 points in the fourth quarter."

Bobby Marks draws parallels between this collapse and previous heartbreaks, underscoring a pattern of late-game struggles.

Bobby Marks [39:03]: "The Knicks were up 20 before the injuries set in, and again, they couldn't hold the lead when it mattered most."

Indiana Pacers' Remarkable Comebacks

A significant highlight of the episode is the discussion on the Indiana Pacers' extraordinary ability to mount comebacks in the final minutes of games. Tim Bontemps marvels at their resilience, comparing it to some of the greatest comeback stories in NBA history.

Tim Bontemps [43:57]: "The Pacers have done this over and over again; it's almost like witnessing one of the best comeback teams in NBA history."

Brian Windhorst adds historical context by referencing past iconic comebacks, reinforcing the Pacers' elite status in clutch situations.

Brian Windhorst [40:48]: "The quintessential comeback I always think of is the Heat vs. Spurs in the 2014 Finals..."

Defensive Strategies and Player Matchups

The hosts delve into specific defensive matchups that have influenced the outcomes of recent games. Bobby Marks discusses how the Thunder's defensive players, such as Alex Caruso and Lou Dort, effectively neutralize opposing stars like Julius Randle.

Bobby Marks [19:08]: "Alex Caruso and Lou Dort are strong enough to handle Randle despite being several inches shorter."

Future Outlook and Series Predictions

As the episode progresses, the team forecasts the potential trajectories of both the Thunder and the Knicks in their respective series. Bobby Marks anticipates a series reset after Game 4, believing the Knicks will claw back in subsequent games.

Bobby Marks [53:39]: "I expect the series to be two-two after game four, with the Knicks winning two of the next three."

Meanwhile, Tim Bontemps emphasizes the Thunder's potential for continued success, citing their record-breaking point differential as a testament to their dominance.

Tim Bontemps [20:02]: "They set the NBA record for point differential in a season. That's no small feat."

Anecdotes and Humor

Interwoven with the analytical discussions, the hosts share humorous moments and personal anecdotes, adding a lighthearted touch to the episode. For instance, they recount a comical interaction involving Chris Paul’s surprise appearance at a game to celebrate Shea’s MVP award.

Bobby Marks [46:38]: "Tyrese showed up last year for Game 7 wearing a hoodie with the choke sign, referencing Reggie Miller's legendary moments."

Conclusion

Wrapping up the episode, Brian Windhorst and his co-hosts reflect on the fragility of momentum in NBA playoff series, agreeing that each game stands on its own merits despite previous outcomes.

Tim Bontemps [55:44]: "Each game is its own chapter. We don’t believe in momentum."

The Hoop Collective Podcast successfully encapsulates the intense emotions and strategic intricacies of the NBA playoffs, providing listeners with a detailed and engaging analysis of the current season’s pivotal moments. Whether you're a die-hard fan or a casual observer, this episode offers valuable insights into the dynamics shaping the path to the championship.

Transcript

[Brian Windhorst]

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[Tim Bontemps]

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[Bobby Marks]

Foreign.

[Brian Windhorst]

Welcome to Hoop Collective Podcast. We talk about the NBA, which we're doing on Friday morning in the middle of the night, I would say. Joining us from New York City where we saw one of the craziest playoff games in NBA history on what is about 26 hours ago is Tim Bontemps.

[Bobby Marks]

The end of this podcast made a prediction about when the beginning of this podcast would start. That's right, it was bang on. That's all I'm gonna say.

[Tim Bontemps]

Go on.

[Brian Windhorst]

We, we, we taped the end of this podcast many hours ago so we're all smarter and older. Joining us from Oklahoma City across the street from where I'm at right now.

[Tim Bontemps]

Is Ben McMahon, Howdy Partners and I would like to point out that I'd hit the under as far as my readiness or the start of this and somebody was shuffling around his hotel room where he'd just been maxing and relaxing while I was working away.

[Brian Windhorst]

Yeah, I was, I was working too.

[Bobby Marks]

I was like man signed on to the podcast one minute at under the exact number that I said that the pod would start at. And he muted his microphone twice in the intervening three minutes before Brian signed on.

[Tim Bontemps]

So you of all people should know you can be proud of one minute.

[Brian Windhorst]

Oh my God. All right. I wouldn't say the Wolves are too proud right now. They're down 02 to the Thunder after game two of the Western Conference final finals on Thursday night. This was an impressive performance by the Thunder, but also at the same time, I would call it a paint by numbers. The Thunder did with exactly what they do. They defended, they frustrated the Wolves up and down their lineup. Shay got to the foul line, scored 30 something points. It was happened to be 38 which tied his playoff career high. But Shay looks the same whether he scores 31 or 37 or 38. Got to the mid.

[Bobby Marks]

I think it's worth just saying, I think it's just worth saying his line just, just for across the board the day after he got the MVP award, 38 points, eight assists, one turnover plus 25 and 41 minutes and 47 seconds on 12 for 21 shooting from the field, only one for two from three. So basically all those shots from two point range and going 13 for 15 from the foul line, that is a heck of a line.

[Brian Windhorst]

And he had three steals and he had three steals and one turnover in 42 minutes of playing point guard. So that's pretty much the type of game it may have been like, you know, an A minus game. He's had better games, but an A minus game. And that's why he's the mvp, because.

[Tim Bontemps]

Look, he got the MVP trophy. The crowd roared, his teammates went crazy, and then he played the part.

[Brian Windhorst]

Exactly.

[Tim Bontemps]

Complete MVP type of performance. But you know what? You know who else played the part? All star Jalen Williams. 26, 10 and five from the floor. Big part of the defense.

[Bobby Marks]

Zero turnovers.

[Tim Bontemps]

Yeah, Chet Holmgren had a. I don't have his line right in front of me. Chet Holmgren. There you go. Chet Holmgren. I mean, you know, just the, the chaos they create defensively. But to me, like Shay playing the part of mvp, obviously, you know, that's what I wrote about. Like, that's huge. You know, he's the number one reason why the Thunder are six games away from the franchise's first championship. But he needs his guys with him and he needs his all star sidekick. And look, man, Jalen Williams had a rough series for the most part against Denver. Nuggets really came through for him in game seven. And this, man, this was a hell of a J Dub performance. And both Shea and Jalen Williams are just picking apart the Timberwolves in the mid range. Just picking apart the Timberwolves in the mid range. And look, those are. If Rudy's in the game, you know, he wants, you know, he wants to be in drop. You know, he, he's never been a guy who's had a lot of success or a lot of comfort challenging these guards in that mid range area. And these two dudes just shredded the Timberwolves there.

[Brian Windhorst]

Yeah, the, the Thunder, they only, they only shot 27% on three, but they were so efficient everywhere else that they still, you know, really didn't have to sweat that much in this game. They had a big third quarter, which they did also in game one. They had 30 assists. Just ran their stuff defensively. Once again, the Timberwolves chopped down their turnovers, but still The Thunder had 12 more points off turnovers. So for the last three games now, by the way, that's 63 more points than not then, then their opponents off.

[Tim Bontemps]

Yeah. Oh, you say only 22 points off turnovers.

[Brian Windhorst]

Yeah, because the last two games they had over 30.

[Tim Bontemps]

I know. And the Thunder led the league this year in points of turnovers with 21.8 per game. Yeah, but. But in the playoffs they crank that up to over 25. By the way, Jackson actually doing some producing work again. Man, he's on a roll here. And when he's. When he can just stop at the.

[Bobby Marks]

Side, stop with the shots of Jackson and I'll do.

[Tim Bontemps]

Stop being a little. Was the Thunder hunting Rudy Gobert? And pick and roll, 1.25 points per direct pick when Gobert was the screener defender. And again, that's a whole lot of mid range stuff.

[Bobby Marks]

That mid range. He's beyond automatic.

[Tim Bontemps]

Yeah. You do a better job defending Jackson than Gobert does defending J or Jay Devon. Pick and roll.

[Bobby Marks]

Jackson's just staying up till the wee hours of the morning putting this pot up while you're taking your sweet time getting ready. So you don't need to be going. I was ready.

[Tim Bontemps]

I was ready before Wendy.

[Bobby Marks]

This, this game again, like you said, Brian, I think it's. I think calling a paint by numbers is accurate. The Thunder stuck to their formula. They did what they need to do. And look, we talked stats. Williams gave me the numbers after game one. Wolves were 11 for 39 on open threes in that game. You think, hey, if the Wolves can hit some shots, maybe the series looks different. The Wolves are 6 for 15 on open threes in game two according to stats. He just sent me the numbers now. That's 40%. However, it's also the number 60. Yes, it's 60% less of those shots in the game. More importantly, they're 5 for 24 in the game on contested threes, which is a much better split for fear the Thunder. You don't want them shooting 75% of their shots uncontested. And the other thing stats it for me, that he told the pod father before he came over to here to do the pod, is that when you look at Julius Randle, who's obviously had a disastrous game, 2 for 11, 6 points, didn't play in the fourth quarter. Julius Randle, as we know, likes to play a physical game. He likes to get in the paint. He likes to bully his opponents, use his massive frame and strength to get in there and wreak havoc. Right. This Thunder team, despite being small, like we've talked about in terms of height, between Alex Caruso, Lou Dort, the two bigs, when they have them out there. There's not a lot of places for Julius Randle to use his strength to really try to gain an advantage in this series. And outside that first half when he was a flamethrower making shots on the perimeter, he has not done anything over the past six quarters. And that's something that Minnesota and Chris Finch has to find a way to try to change. Because if Julius Randall is going to be a semi non factor in the series, this series probably isn't going back to okc.

[Tim Bontemps]

Yeah, we had a pickup run yesterday here in okc and there was a possession in. I think it was the first quarter. Maybe it was second or first half for sure. I sent McMinim in this text. I said, randall looks like me at pickup because the man smoked like three layups on one possession. I mean, he was. And look, he was frustrated. He was frustrated with the officiating. The. The Timberwolves had a free throw in the first half, A singular free throw in the first half. I. I didn't think they got a good whistle in the first half. I'll just be honest. I thought. I thought Ant should have been at the line at least a few times in the first half. By the way, Ant, I'm going to read his entire post game media availability, okay? And that was the whole thing. He didn't talk to the media. Now that might just be Ant saying, okay, you find me for one bleep and F bomb another 50 grand. I just won't talk. But it's a tough look for a face of a franchise not to talk after a playoff loss that puts you down.02 in the Western Conference finals. I think you could sense the frustration.

[Brian Windhorst]

You know, Remember the whole Marshawn lynch thing at the super bowl where he just said, I'm just here so I don't get fined.

[Tim Bontemps]

Right? I think, yeah, right.

[Brian Windhorst]

Ant was like, I'm just, I'm just. I'm not. I'm just not here so I don't get fined.

[Tim Bontemps]

Or, hey, you find me for. For talking. You might find me for not talking, but whatever.

[Brian Windhorst]

By the way, ant up to $430,000 in fines this year.

[Tim Bontemps]

Yeah. And stay tuned. I think he might get fined for skipping media tonight. Again. He's got that, those Sprite commercials. Keep running. He'll be all right. Those Adidas are selling. You know, I like those ants. So actually, one of my boys has a pair got blisters the first time. You're warm, but that's neither here nor there.

[Bobby Marks]

What?

[Tim Bontemps]

What, what, what are we doing? It is comprehensive coverage. Try it sometime. Okay. Listen.

[Bobby Marks]

Okay.

[Tim Bontemps]

You could sense the frustration the old Jaden McDaniels. I'm, you know, hey, 10 of 16 with McDaniels is the primary defender, including six of 10. Shade goes with Alexander and he had enough of Shea and just gave him that little kind of a, you know, it was a bit of a cheap. Well, I will say one was appropriate little cheap shot. Shove in the back.

[Brian Windhorst]

You know, Jaden McDaniels who struggled with Shea all season long, by the way, which is not an indictment of Jaden.

[Tim Bontemps]

Exactly. Him and the rest of the NBA.

[Brian Windhorst]

He got frustrated and he shoved Shea down and got a flagrant. I will say this, Jaden has been known to be a little emotional. You may recall that two years ago that he punched a wall and broke his hand.

[Tim Bontemps]

Yeah, he punched the wall.

[Brian Windhorst]

So in all honesty, like if, if he got his emotions out this way. But Julius was very frustrated. Jaden was very frustrated. Ant I think very clearly is frustrated. He was frustrated in game one. He was so frustrated and talked to the media.

[Tim Bontemps]

More Hoop Collective podcast after this.

[Bobby Marks]

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[Bobby Marks]

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[Brian Windhorst]

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[Tim Bontemps]

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[Brian Windhorst]

This is what the Thunder do to you on Scott Van Pelt. Tonight, I compared the Thunder's defense to a Kraken.

[Tim Bontemps]

Oh, because it's just a hockey team, right?

[Brian Windhorst]

Yes. It's just like, what, What? Like a, like a sea monster. It's just like enormous and it's got all these tentacles. You seriously went on SVP and said.

[Bobby Marks]

That the Thunder defense is like a mythical creature.

[Brian Windhorst]

That's Kraken. It's like a Kraken.

[Tim Bontemps]

Listen, dude, they are, they are. They just. Oh, they just. There's. And there's just like another body coming everywhere.

[Brian Windhorst]

It's everywhere.

[Bobby Marks]

Tentacles. Interesting.

[Brian Windhorst]

You, you think that you got away from them and you throw a pass, they pick it off. You know, you think you're past your defeat, your defender and the sucker sticks his hand in there and knocks it away on your way by.

[Tim Bontemps]

It's Lou Dort got his first, finally all defensive team selection. First team, right? Jalen Williams, J Dub. I've got a second team selection. I would listen to an argument that those aren't the first and second best defenders on the team. I would listen to an argument. I, I, I, I think Lou's going to be there.

[Bobby Marks]

But dude, Caruso, especially Knox Crusoe is the best defensive player on the team, especially playoff Caruso.

[Tim Bontemps]

Yeah. Oh, my goodness. And, and then Chad, like, listen, if Chet's eligible for.

[Bobby Marks]

Chad Holmgren had been healthy this year, he would have made all defense. And Isaiah Hartenstein is probably ahead of Lou Dor 2.

[Tim Bontemps]

It's.

[Bobby Marks]

If you're just starting from, if you're just starting from defensive players. Definitely is. Yeah.

[Tim Bontemps]

I'm gonna dial you back on the last one. I'll tell you this. Case and Wallace, I'm not sure he's there yet, but he is on the.

[Brian Windhorst]

There were times.

[Bobby Marks]

I'm fully on record on my case and Wallace take.

[Brian Windhorst]

So there were times this year where Shea was taken off the court for defensive purposes. Not because he's not good, but because Case and Wallace is that good.

[Tim Bontemps]

And he, and I've said it many times, Shea is not first team all Thunder defense, but he is a tremendously impactful defensive player. You know, he got three steals tonight. That's not unusual. He had 208 stocks this season. Steals and blocks, third in the league. Like, he's a great defensive playmaker.

[Brian Windhorst]

So by the way, like, the, the guy that, that Chris Finch played over Julius Randall down the stretch in a lot of, for a case. And you know, the point of all this is that was Nas Reed.

[Tim Bontemps]

Yeah.

[Brian Windhorst]

And Nas Reed I think is one of 15 on threes in this series or something like that. And that was the guy that Chris Finch went over Julius with.

[Tim Bontemps]

I'm not sure Nas has made a three in this series. He was.

[Brian Windhorst]

Yeah, yeah, maybe he's one of 50.

[Bobby Marks]

Tell you, I could tell you real quick. He was over five in this game and he was also in the first.

[Tim Bontemps]

Game and four of 19 from the floor in this series. That's not going to cut it. They need like, they need scoring everywhere they can get it. And look, they're, they're two big time bench scorers. Nas Reed, we just read his numbers. Dante DiVincenzo in this series ain't a whole lot better. I mean he's made a, he's made some threes, but he is 5 of 18 and 6 of 22 from the floor.

[Brian Windhorst]

Like they're also taking, they're also just taking the ball from him. Yeah, they're taking the ball from him.

[Bobby Marks]

That's what they do.

[Brian Windhorst]

They're averaging, they're averaging 11 steals a game.

[Tim Bontemps]

And, and you know, and what they do. And after he told everybody that he got 13 effing shots, only 13 effing shots in, in game one, which that's what he got. Fine.

[Brian Windhorst]

50 grand.

[Tim Bontemps]

I'm like, I don't know, man. The league like chill out dudes. But anyways, he's, he said he, he was going to be more aggressive and he was, he got up twice as many shots and he had 18 shots.

[Bobby Marks]

In the first half is not great.

[Tim Bontemps]

Well, and he was 12 of 26 from the floor, so pretty middling efficiency. His three balls not going down. 1 of 9 from 3 point range. Again, he got, he got to the line for 10 free throws. I, I thought that could have easily been like 16 or 17, but you know, he, he's, he, he is taking care of the ball. He's not been part of the turnover problems. He didn't turn it over one time tonight, which is honestly pretty impressive considering how aggressive he was.

[Brian Windhorst]

He played well. He played well. Maybe not. He played much better tonight.

[Tim Bontemps]

Yeah, he did get a three ball to go down.

[Brian Windhorst]

Right.

[Tim Bontemps]

And he was much more aggressive. McDaniels shot the ball well tonight. He got scorched on the defensive end, but he shot it well. And other than that, I mean, not a whole lot of production. Nikhil Alexander Walker gave him something off the bench. But again, for. For their two bench scores to be that big of duds is. Is. It's going to be tough to overcome. Gobert has not made any kind of impact so far in this series. He's giving him, you know, I mean he screens offensively, but he's in single digit scoring for the series.

[Bobby Marks]

Problem. The problem for Rudy in the series is it's not really a rim protection series.

[Tim Bontemps]

No, they'll just, they'll pull up, they'll get to their spots. They're two, they're two go to guys are, are, you know, they're more than comfortable pulling up 16, 14, 12ft like they, they love those spots.

[Bobby Marks]

Yeah, I mean they get into the lane a lot. Like they get a lot of paint points, but they're getting a lot of paint points. Like you said, getting to 10ft and rising up. And as we've talked about all year, to go back to the Thunder, the free throw disparity stuff. Right. Jay is the one guy who's always getting in the lane as a threat to score most of the rest of the time. Sometimes Jalen Williams is. Most of the rest of the time it's guys spotting up around them on the perimeter. So there's not a lot of places for Rudy to really hide. And especially if Isaiah Hartenstein isn't on the court, then you're basically in a five out situation all the time. And you know, it just, it's just a hard matchup for them. It's, you know, it is. As you watch these first two games and watch them play out the things that Minnesota did in the first two rounds or where they had success against the Lakers and the warriors, those advantages just don't really show up in this series. And it's going to be interesting to see what they can cook up over the next 48 hours because right now it's not.

[Brian Windhorst]

They're also, yeah, you're right.

[Bobby Marks]

A lot to be optimistic about.

[Brian Windhorst]

They're also having an easier time with, with Randall and Edwards than they did with Jokic.

[Bobby Marks]

But that's what I'm saying. Like Randall, both those guys, you know, Randall especially like his strength is a huge advantage because there's not a lot of guys who are strong enough to handle him. And Alex Caruso and Lou Dort are two guys that are strong enough to handle him despite being several inches shorter. And so that in their ball. So ball hawks who can take the. Especially Caruso's case who could take the ball off. So Randall's a streaky shooter. If his Three point shot isn't falling. You know, all of a sudden things look limited really quick. And that's the Thunder can do to a lot of guys.

[Tim Bontemps]

I was going to say the simple fact is the Thunder's not like a lot of easy solutions against Thunder. There's a reason this team set the freaking NBA record for point differential in a season. And another gym from Jackson, the best producer in the hoop collective history.

[Bobby Marks]

That's better.

[Tim Bontemps]

Despite what Bon Tims might say. Despite any badmouthing from the uswb, yet.

[Brian Windhorst]

Another great product from Syracuse, I think we can all agree.

[Tim Bontemps]

Ah, he overcame that crap.

[Bobby Marks]

He had one of the few.

[Tim Bontemps]

Yes. Get this. Highest point differential in a postseason in NBA history. The 71 bucks. That's Kareem.

[Bobby Marks]

The big Oscar Robertson. Yeah.

[Tim Bontemps]

Yeah. Plus 14.5. The Thunder are number two on that list right now. Plus 14.1. The other teams on the top five, 17 Warriors, 2001 Lakers.

[Brian Windhorst]

17 warriors were mildly good team.

[Tim Bontemps]

Yeah. And obviously all those teams, Thunder have yet to finish a job, but the rest of those teams did win the championship.

[Bobby Marks]

All those teams had at least one inner circle hall of Famer on them too. In some cases multiple. So that's.

[Tim Bontemps]

Yeah, exactly.

[Bobby Marks]

Pretty good company to be in.

[Tim Bontemps]

Yeah. We're talking what Kareem and. And Oscar Robertson, Steph and kd, Shaq and Kobe, Jordan and Pippen, like pretty good dudes.

[Bobby Marks]

Pretty good.

[Tim Bontemps]

And look like Shay is well on that path and, you know, then we'll see. We'll see. Jalen Williams is off to a hell of a start in his career, but to put him in that kind of company, you know, maybe he'll end up being a Pippin type of dude. We'll see.

[Bobby Marks]

Well, and it was. It was pretty cool to see Shay back up. I mean, a lot of times we've seen these MVP things. Not that Shea obviously deserved it, but you see a guy get this award, get it the night before you play the next day. You get the word before the game sometimes, like with the ring ceremony at the start of the season, you see guys be off their game or whatever. And, you know, Shay's obviously always a pretty monotone, even killed guy on the court. And so it wasn't shocking to see him play this well in this spot for many reasons, but pretty cool to see him get the MVP award and then go out and look every bit the MVP and just boss the game in all ways.

[Brian Windhorst]

By the way, a rare moment of comedy from Mark Dagonault tonight. Not on the podium, at least. I'm not saying in general conversation, but the Thunder, very, very, very professional.

[Tim Bontemps]

You know, Shay very. What did you say? Uptight?

[Brian Windhorst]

No, no, I didn't say that. Very professional.

[Tim Bontemps]

Okay.

[Brian Windhorst]

McMahon wrote about this and talked about this. Shay gave all of his teammates a gift basket in appreciation for them helping him to his MVP award. There was a Rolex in there, each one of them. There was an iPhone. What else was in there, McMahon?

[Tim Bontemps]

Canadian Goose jacket, I believe.

[Brian Windhorst]

Canada goose.

[Tim Bontemps]

I'm leaving.

[Brian Windhorst]

Canadian goose might have been a knockoff. That was a Canada goose.

[Tim Bontemps]

All right, whatever the fancy thing.

[Bobby Marks]

A Canadian goose in there. An actual goose.

[Tim Bontemps]

And then there was something else I forgot. What else? Something else. Nice.

[Brian Windhorst]

So, anyway, they were like 10 grand each, give or take. And so in the press conference tonight, Mark Dagenau was asked whether he received a care package, and he said, I did not. He said, you know, I heard Shea say that everybody loves watches. It's like, guess not everybody.

[Bobby Marks]

That's pretty good.

[Brian Windhorst]

Yeah.

[Bobby Marks]

Pretty good for Mark D. Yeah, it was.

[Brian Windhorst]

It was a. It was the. The hardest I'd ever laughed in a Mark D. Press conference. By the way, you mentioned Stats Williams before. Guess who has fallen head over heels in love with our guy Matt Stats Williams, who may try to steal him away.

[Tim Bontemps]

Oh, presti.

[Brian Windhorst]

No, I'm sure we'd keep Pressy away from him. My God. He'll definitely try to hide.

[Tim Bontemps]

Well, Preston's not a good judge of talent. He didn't even keep Caruso on the OKC blue. But go on.

[Brian Windhorst]

That's a whole nother story. You're. You're telling yourself your. Your Caruso feature you got coming up.

[Tim Bontemps]

I like to tease things via the Hoop collective.

[Brian Windhorst]

All right. Good job, Michael Malone.

[Tim Bontemps]

Oh, yeah.

[Brian Windhorst]

Oh, my God. Does he love Stats Williams? Ho ho. Does he love Stats Williams?

[Bobby Marks]

He was. What's up?

[Brian Windhorst]

He was. Yeah, he was. Practically has arm around him like he was a surrogate son tonight. He was good like that.

[Tim Bontemps]

Hey, Malone, clarify.

[Bobby Marks]

Stats getting recognized for his excellence.

[Tim Bontemps]

Malone did clarify. He said his vote would have been for Joker for mvp. Now, we didn't pull him after the game because it was a shame. VP type of performance.

[Brian Windhorst]

You know that he lives in Denver, so he's got to make sure there.

[Tim Bontemps]

Ain'T a for sale sign on the house yet, so he's got to make sure. And he definitely indicated he got a little bit of blowback from the neighbors.

[Brian Windhorst]

That's right.

[Tim Bontemps]

You know, the thing about Shea, though, is his dominance is almost like a quiet dominance. Right? It's. It's not like. Like, When Ant dominates a game, and we've seen Ant dominate many playoff games, it's loud, right? There's highlights, there's crazy dunks. There's, you know, these. These, like, long threes. There's just emotion and, you know, all trash talk and all this kind of stuff. SGA just kind of cruises through games, as he says, lets the game come to him. The dude only took three shots in the first quarter, right? And then he's just kind of waiting for his opportunities. Late first half, goes on a little flurry. Oh. Next thing you know, okay, they bumped the lead out. Third quarter, when they're. They've overwhelmed Minnesota in both third quarters this third quarter, 11 points, couple assists, you know, just fingerprints all over it. And then you. You look up at the end of the night, the guys, you know, I mean, look at within the third quarter, the guy's got 30, and it doesn't feel like he's been, you know, just. It's. It's. It's quiet. You don't feel like he's just been, yeah, that dominant.

[Brian Windhorst]

And it's just like he scores 30 every night.

[Tim Bontemps]

Just in complete control.

[Brian Windhorst]

And this Mike Breen read this stat right at the end of the game. The Thunder have played 95 games this year, and they've won by double digits in 60 of them. 60.

[Bobby Marks]

I mean, look, all season long, we talked about it a lot. And the only reason, the single reason to not think the Thunder were the massive and overwhelming favorite to win the title was very simply because the combination of they hadn't done it before, and was Jay William, Jaylah Williams good enough? That was it. Because they have every other thing you could possibly look for in a team that's good enough and could be good enough for the next several years. And we saw they. The weeks, I think we've already seen the rubber meets the road moment in game five of the last round, which I think was the west finals. We talked about it a bunch. The down eight going to the fourth quarter against Jokic didn't look great. They lose that game, season's probably over. In game six, they find a way to win that game. And I know they didn't win Game 6, but they come home to take care of Game 7, and it's a little early. They still got to get six more wins, but Barn injury. It certainly feels like it's all downhill from here for these guys. The way things look right now.

[Tim Bontemps]

And the scary thing about Thunder, we'll have plenty of time to get to this stuff later. They're probably going to be better next year and maybe the year after that and the year after that.

[Brian Windhorst]

I was looking at the box score tonight and I went over the injury with the injury report and I forgot that they have a one one of the most hyped European prospects since Luca sitting out topic.

[Tim Bontemps]

I mean he's not going to be Luca. But they do have a lottery pick, right?

[Brian Windhorst]

I mean I said since Luca, he's, you know, he's.

[Tim Bontemps]

Yeah, they've got a lot of.

[Bobby Marks]

They have a. They have a talented lottery pick guard who hasn't played all year.

[Brian Windhorst]

He had a torn acl.

[Tim Bontemps]

And they just have young ascending talent. Like SGA is con. And this is something when in Dagonal's more boring frequent moments he talks about how SGA is just continuing to get better and better and better. The guy just got mvp and I'm going to go. Thunder jargon here still has a growth mentality, right? Like Jalen Williams has gotten significantly better every single season. We can go on down the list. I mean Chet, you know, Chet missed most of this season. Like he's going to be better next year.

[Bobby Marks]

And these guys are. These guys are in the Western Conference finals. They've won two games in the Western Conference finals in dominant fashion. They have one player over 30 on the roster and Alex Caruso who's 31 and Kenrich Williams is 30. Every other guy on the team is 27 and under, so.

[Tim Bontemps]

And they've got seven draft picks.

[Bobby Marks]

Well, correct. I don't know everything else, but I.

[Tim Bontemps]

Don'T know that Sam Presti is ever going to make this big splash trade that we've talked about so much. The people coming just because like you don't need to. And like honestly, one of Pres. Biggest challenges is going to be managing the. The payroll. Yes, but what a great challenge to have like by the way, as sitting down. Like Case and Wallace is going to be so good. He's already. He's already. He's already good. He, like this guy's got a chance to be.

[Brian Windhorst]

When you.

[Tim Bontemps]

He might be an all star type of player at some point. Not when you. Not too distant.

[Brian Windhorst]

When you calculate which is important in today's day and age, when you calculate a player's value with their contract. In other words, what's the bang for your buck? Case and Wallace is what top 20 you guys are.

[Bobby Marks]

You guys have taken my case and Wallace love and ran with it. I like it.

[Tim Bontemps]

Listen, man, my tax. One thing I paid for his high school education.

[Brian Windhorst]

Well, one thing I'll Tell you about Case and Wallace that I've noticed in the last two weeks is all of a sudden he's like. He's looking like Chris Paul in transition.

[Tim Bontemps]

Dude, ever since I said all his lobs end up in the fourth row, he's completing them left and right.

[Brian Windhorst]

By the way, Chris Paul came to the game tonight.

[Tim Bontemps]

He did.

[Brian Windhorst]

To celebrate Shea, who, as you remember, Chris Paul came to the. When the Rockets did their rebuild.

[Tim Bontemps]

Chris Paul, that was rebuild. That's when the Rockets made it. Got all that because it was the worst contract.

[Brian Windhorst]

Sorry, Brain fartita.

[Tim Bontemps]

Brain fart at 2am I will say 2 fertita's credit. He learned from that mistake. He learned to take the emotion out of the process. But yeah, that's when the Rockets. When Fertitta and James Harden wanted CP3 gone. So they made a bad trade, but he came here. It was one year. It was. Ended up being the bubble year. It was Shay's first year. It was kind of. It was that weird kind of like gap year for the Thunder where they weren't going into their little tank tanker mode rebuild.

[Brian Windhorst]

They made the playoffs.

[Tim Bontemps]

Yeah, they made the playoffs that year. But CP3 was there and it was Shea's first year and it was. It was Dort's rookie year. And look, man, CP3 was like, he's got a little piece of this. Because he definitely was a huge positive influence on Shea and on door. Not that those guys wouldn't have had success without having him as a teammate for a season, but he was a great, great vet, great mentor and is continuing to be a mentor, you know, as he's gone to other teams for those guys.

[Brian Windhorst]

Yeah, well, that just shows the respect level that he has for Shea and vice versa, that he would come in for this game just to see Shay get the trophy from.

[Tim Bontemps]

Shay had a. You talk about those rare moments of comedic relief. Shea had one in his post game where he was asked about CP3 and he said, yeah, I looked over there. I was like, wait, who's that sitting by my wife? Then I saw it, and then I saw it was Chris. I was like, all right.

[Brian Windhorst]

Oh, he didn't know Chris was coming.

[Tim Bontemps]

That's what he said.

[Brian Windhorst]

Oh, okay.

[Tim Bontemps]

I. I don't know. Maybe. You know, some. Sometimes you. Sometimes you don't tell the full truth because you're going for a punchline.

[Brian Windhorst]

At least I got you.

[Tim Bontemps]

Some people might do that.

[Brian Windhorst]

Yeah, I got you. Because like, we at ESPN knew Chris was coming yesterday because he was on Countdown. He was.

[Tim Bontemps]

Maybe it was a Surprise. Maybe Chris thought he was getting a Rolex and it's disappointed.

[Brian Windhorst]

I don't know. Would you fly to Oklahoma City from LA for a Rolex?

[Tim Bontemps]

I'm not a watch guy, so. Shea's wrong. He says everybody enjoys watches. I don't like having that stuff on my wrist. Now, if somebody wants to give me a Rolex, I'd be happy to have it. I just won't wear it. Might pawn it.

[Brian Windhorst]

Yeah. All right. Well, I will say this. Looking forward, the Wolves are bound to hit some threes. They're shooting under 30% the first two games. They will hit some, I think, and.

[Tim Bontemps]

I'd recommend maybe three.

[Brian Windhorst]

Shay, you're right. Shea is. You know, he averaged eight free throws a year. They didn't average 15. He's averaging 15 so far in this series. So, you know, we could see, you know, a little bit of a change when they go on the road on Saturday night, but. And look, we are. This is the Never say Never postseason. If you say, don't assume anything. So I ain't. That said. The concept of the Thunder losing four out of five is hard to see. Wouldn't say impossible, because we don't do that, but it's hard to see.

[Tim Bontemps]

It does have the aroma of a gentleman's sweep, maybe.

[Brian Windhorst]

I mean, you know, the Thunder have not always handled prosperity the best, so.

[Tim Bontemps]

But they only won 68 games.

[Brian Windhorst]

I know, but I'm talking about in the playoffs.

[Tim Bontemps]

Prosperity win. When did they not handle well? When they swept the Grizzlies?

[Brian Windhorst]

No, I mean, they.

[Tim Bontemps]

They had to come back to, I guess you could say after game two, when they blew the. The. The Nuggets out. I guess you can. I'll give you that one.

[Brian Windhorst]

We'll see. But obviously they need Julius Randall to play better. They need to start hitting some threes. They need better play from Gobert. And, you know, one thing was strange tonight. Mike Conley, everybody on their roster was in the negative, obviously. Mike Connolly was a plus 14. He was one of six shooting and was plus 14.

[Tim Bontemps]

Yeah, that was a weird. Sometimes. Sometimes that single game, plus minus can be a little bit wonky.

[Brian Windhorst]

Yeah. So. All right, well, we'll leave the high test intense series to you, Bon Temps. And we're going to talk about game one of the Pacers and Knicks. Actually, we're not going to talk about it. We already talked about it. But Jackson is going to smash them together right now.

[Tim Bontemps]

More Hoop Collective podcast after this.

[Bobby Marks]

This episode is brought to you by.

[Brian Windhorst]

Amazon prime from streaming to shopping.

[Bobby Marks]

Prime helps you get more out of your passions. So whether you're a fan of true crime or prefer a nail biting novel from time to time, with services like Prime Video, Amazon Music and fast free delivery, prime makes it easy to get.

[Brian Windhorst]

More out of whatever you're into or getting into.

[Bobby Marks]

Visit Amazon.comprime to learn more. Ryan Reynolds here from Mint Mobile. I don't know if you knew this, but anyone can get the same Premium Wireless for $15 a month plan that I've been enjoying. It's not just for celebrities.

[Tim Bontemps]

So do like I did and have one of your assistants assistants switch you to Mint Mobile today.

[Bobby Marks]

I'm told it's super easy to [e-mail].

[Brian Windhorst]

Switch upfront payment of $45 for 3.

[Tim Bontemps]

Month plan equivalent to $15 per month Required intro rate first 3 months only then full price plan options available taxes and fees feeful [e-mail] Are you still quoting 30 year old movies? Have you said cool beans in the past 90 days? Do you think Discover isn't widely accepted? If this sounds like you, you're stuck in the past. Discover is accepted at 99% of places that take credit cards nationwide and every time you make a purchase with your card, you automatically earn cash back. Welcome to the now it pays to Discover. Learn [e-mail] credit card based on the February 2024 Nielsen report.

[Brian Windhorst]

All right, welcome back to Hoop Collective. And it's now earlier in the day. We're all younger, we're all ignorant of tonight's results, but we're educated on what happened in game one. At the game you were at Bond Temps on Wednesday night, which was one of the craziest games I've ever seen. And I've been saying that a lot. It feels like in these playoffs, Indiana.

[Bobby Marks]

Pacers in these playoffs specifically, pretty much.

[Brian Windhorst]

The definition of having a game wrapped up is three possessions in the final minute. I think if you have three possessions in the final minute, your winning percentage is in the high 99 percentile. And three times in three consecutive series the Pacers have pulled out of victories in those situations and twice it's happened on the road. So you were just as we're recording this, we were just on NBA Today Bon Temps. You talked about being in the arena for the shot. You could go over that with us as well.

[Bobby Marks]

I mean the whole thing was just, I want to say it was unbelievable. Except it honestly kind of wasn't because this has happened twice in the past couple of weeks. Like when it got down to eight with a couple minutes ago, I Turned to our colleagues, Jamal Collier and Chris Herring, who were sitting next to me, and I was like, these guys aren't going to do this again, are they? And then when Jalen Brunson got it back up to nine with 50 seconds ish to go, I was like, all right, guys, probably got it in the bag. But it is just remarkable. We have. We've spent so much time talking about this Pacers team and the way they play and the pace they play at and the way they just wear you down in these late game situations and as the games go on. And like, there were so many moments in the end of this game that were almost identical to these other collapses. Even Josh Hart ended up catching the ball, but there was almost the identical pass thrown across the court that Max Drew didn't get that Josh Hart managed to corral. It was like, holy crap, this is literally going in the exact same manner as those other games. And then obviously, the thing that was wildly different was this just completely absurd Halliburton shot that thought it was going to get stuck in the vaulted ceiling of the Garden and then just drop through the hoop. And from our seats, which are on the opposite end of the court, it was the same vantage point it basically had on the Katie shot at Barclays. I thought that shot was a three at the time. I thought this shot was a three at the time. Tyrese Halbert shot three at the time. And you know, the difference between that game and this game was, as I said, Tyrese, after the game, first thing I thought of was that Durant shot. The difference was you guys won the game and like, you know, Milwaukee on a set, a couple big buckets late. I think Chris Middleton and Drew Holiday each had big shots down the stretch in that game. Bucks obviously escaped, went on to win the title. But yeah, I mean, that was even for all the crazy stuff Indiana's done that was crazy. I mean, they scored 23 points and nine possessions to end the fourth quarter. Aaron Neesmith was seven for eight, three in the game.

[Brian Windhorst]

23 points and nine possessions.

[Bobby Marks]

Yeah, pretty good.

[Brian Windhorst]

My God.

[Bobby Marks]

Like, the Knicks were even getting open shots. The Knicks missed. I mean.

[Tim Bontemps]

Dude, they scored their last six possessions and they were all threes. Except for the toe on the line buzzer beater.

[Bobby Marks]

Yeah, I mean, just absolutely crazy. And you know, I mean, it just. It was one of those things where literally everything had to go wrong for the Knicks and it did. They bring in Mitchell Robinson to box out lady, let's obey top and get by him for a dunk. Josh Hart, excellent defensive player. Lance let's Andrew Nemhart get by him for a layup. Those are both late.

[Brian Windhorst]

Josh Hart slipped on the court two or three times in the fourth quarter in overtime at different places in the court. I honestly like wonder if there was something wrong with his shoes. And I'm not even kidding.

[Bobby Marks]

Yeah, I mean, just like that you had OG Carl Town's a fantastic shooter. Misses two free throws. Ojana Nobi misses a free throw like the Pacers couldn't miss. I mean it just, it was everything that had to come together. I mean, SATS Williams sent me this stat. There were since over the last 27 years there had been 14, 14 games where a team had led by nine or more in the final minute of regulation and overtime and the team had lost every single one of those games until Wednesday night in game one.

[Brian Windhorst]

And I'm going to combine it with the fact that, that this is the third time we've had a stat like this with the Pacers because before it was seven points and it was a different number, but because the previous two comebacks were seven points, but it's seven.

[Bobby Marks]

In about 50 seconds and seven in about 35 seconds, but it's three possessions inside the final minute. And yeah, I mean, you just have to say this is the best team that we've ever seen at doing this.

[Brian Windhorst]

So this is where I make one of my speeches. Oh, over the course of 20 plus years, I've seen a bunch of comebacks. The quintessential comeback that I always think of is the Heat coming back on the spurs in the game six, 2014 finals. 2013 finals, 13.

[Bobby Marks]

Yeah.

[Brian Windhorst]

And that was seven points with about 30 something seconds. There's typically three things that you see, not always obviously, but three things that you often see when you have a sort of weird comeback like that. Missed free throws. There's almost always a missed free throw. There's almost always a turnover which manifests itself in several forms. Sometimes it's an offensive rebound, which not exactly a turnover, but can, can feel like it. And then a lot of times there's a role player. So in the case of the Heat comeback, the role player is Ray Allen. I know he's a Hall of Famer, but he was a role player. He's a six man at that point. Two offensive rebounds happen in that. And Ginobi and Kawhi Leonard missed free throws in this game. Miss free throw. Edge OG Anunoby. Miss free throw. Carl Towns, two turnovers, both of them as a result of reviews that Review Bon Temps was interminable for the one Siakam.

[Bobby Marks]

It didn't quite say it right, but it's. It was good use.

[Brian Windhorst]

I don't know how you guys felt. I felt, you know, they went to commercial. Like, I don't know how you guys felt.

[Bobby Marks]

It took. It took a thousand years. I mean, everybody around me was pretty stunned that they. That they overturned it. I thought the Knicks. I don't know if the Knicks necessarily deserved a break on that play. So I was kind of okay. That just called. Like, everybody was just scrambling for the ball. I thought on the Jalen one before, I. You know, the refs have been pretty inconsistent in that. Like, if there's not this one specific thing, but if there's other contact, they're cool with it on these plays. And there was a lot of contact on that play. I was pretty sure surprised.

[Brian Windhorst]

They overturned the ball had already been knocked. The ball had already been knocked loose. So I guess that's how they ruled.

[Bobby Marks]

I mean, I guess, but. But look. I mean, look, you can even go to challenges, right? Tom Thibodeau took an awful challenge in the third quarter. Like, get no chance of winning the challenge. Jalen Brunson pushed off on Aaron Nesmith. They should have called a foul on Aaron Nesmith. As an aside, the rest were awful in this game both ways. They're awful the whole game, bro. Like, just is what it is. They. They missed a ton of calls. Ooh, they. But they had a rough game. I mean, they were all. They were all over the place. That review, the OG Siakam review, to your point, took several minutes. If you got to review it for several minutes, you probably shouldn't be reviewing it. You probably should just be moving on at that point, saying it's inconclusive. Which if it's inconclusive.

[Brian Windhorst]

And over time, they missed the. Miles Turner had a goaltend. I will say this on the ob top and backdoor play, I think it was Miles. I think it was Mikhail Bridges. He fouled toppin.

[Bobby Marks]

So like, that was a. That was an and one. But look, that. That sequence in overtime when they missed that goal 10 and Aaron. Aaron. Andrew Nemhardt hit the quarter three on the next possession. That was a gigantic swing. Would have been a stoppage in the Knicks up six if they called the goal 10. Instead, the Pacers, five seconds later are down one. But look, this isn't about the refs, like, whether they had a good game or not. And it was an equally, I thought bad both ways performance by the refs. I don't think the rest decided the game for the Knicks. The Knicks blew the game. The Pacers won the game. Like in. The Pacers have done this over and over and over again, right?

[Tim Bontemps]

It's a collapse against the best comeback team maybe in NBA history. And it's not just the playoffs. Remember they had, it was January, maybe February. The Pacers had that crazy stretch of games where they had a bunch of these type of comebacks from three possession margins in the last minutes. I mean they've been doing this all season. Reigning cojones factor player of the month, Tyrese Halliburton, well, he didn't get clutch player of the year, but I told you boys, I thought, I think he's coming for that, that crown the, the, the full season cojones factor. Mvp, dude, our buddy Tom Haiderstro, actually we'll call him Haverstro because he wasn't hating in this one. His substack updated his Halliburton's shooting with a game on the line this season. These numbers are insane. I'm shots to tie or go ahead in the final two minutes, including obviously the toe on the line, you know, I mean massive shooters bounce that he got last night. 12 of 14 on those shots this season. 12 of 14 with two and ones. 11 of those are jumpers. You know, the exception obviously being the blow by layup to, you know, get Papa Halliburton banned from all arenas for forevermore when he had the little chit chat with Giannis waving that towel. But this man, including the free throws, has 32 points on 14 shots that again are to tie or go ahead in the last couple minutes. It's one of the most insane clutch make, clutch shot making seasons of all time. Maybe the most like it's insane one.

[Bobby Marks]

No, go ahead and.

[Tim Bontemps]

Dude, listen, I know he thought he, I know he thought he won it, but the choke. Oh, with Reg Miller in there.

[Brian Windhorst]

I was with McMahon.

[Tim Bontemps]

Oh, come on now.

[Brian Windhorst]

First of all, first of all, when he did the choke sign, McMahon's eyes got glass.

[Tim Bontemps]

I love Halbert.

[Bobby Marks]

I love, I mean everybody, everybody that.

[Tim Bontemps]

Kind of trash talk and backs it up like how could you not let. And you know what? That dude does not mind one iota being the villain in Madison Square Garden. He loves it and he feeds off it and he loves just sticking it to those, you know, trash throwing Knicks fans.

[Bobby Marks]

Yeah, I mean I wrote about it last night. Like he's in the locker room and I was giving him a hard time about how the game went and he Just looks at me and goes, it's got to be the shoes. And for young people who don't know what that's referring to, it's to a ad campaign in 1989 for Michael Jordan's Jordan. Jordan brand shoes. That was done by Spike Lee.

[Tim Bontemps]

No, it was Blackman.

[Bobby Marks]

Oh, yes. Okay. And Spike Lee, obviously. Legendary Knicks fan, got into Reggie Miller, famously, in the Winning Time doc, which Diary said he'd watched about 50 times last night. Tyrese, who showed up last year for Game 7 wearing a hoodie that had the choke on it and sitting at the podium wearing it. I mean, I was, I was amused when he was like, you know, yeah. I thought about doing it at different times. Like, yeah, you'd been preparing to do that for the moment. You hit a shot to beat the Knicks at the Garden for well over a year. Tyrese, we know that it's okay, but you got Reggie Miller sitting there. You've got Larry Johnson with the famous four point play sitting there, got John Starks, Alan Houston, Patrick Ewing, Spike Lee, all these people, all there, all the.

[Brian Windhorst]

Freewell was probably there too. I didn't see him, but he was probably there, I think.

[Tim Bontemps]

So much, so much history in the building. So much history in this series. Series. And I, I, again, different players, different styles, but there is a whole lot of Reggie Miller in Tyrese Halliburton 100. And it's a lot of fun to see, you know, Halliburton and it, you know, just the fans aren't playing. But Halliburton versus the Madison Square Garden crowd is awesome.

[Bobby Marks]

Well, look, he's right in the, he's right in the pantheon. As Jackson, New York area native says, the Knicks did win the series back when Reggie did the choke, which is true. And we'll see if the Knicks series, I think we.

[Brian Windhorst]

Tyrese referenced last night. He's like, you know, the Knicks did win the series.

[Bobby Marks]

He was, he was right on top of it.

[Brian Windhorst]

He.

[Bobby Marks]

He knows his history. But the one thing I thought was interesting before we get into the, the meat of the game and going forward in the series that Tyree said, I asked him, I was like, look, you guys have now made a habit of doing extraordinary things in these situations in these playoffs. What is allowing you to do it? And I thought it was interesting. He didn't talk about the pace, he didn't talk about their style of play. He didn't talk about any of that stuff. What he talked about was solely the front office choosing to keep this entire team essentially together after last year's. Run to the Eastern Conference finals and that as he said over the past couple of years between making the run of the NC's tournament championship game, the run they had in the playoffs, the ups and downs they had this year, as you've mentioned for months, Brian, in preparation to have excuses for when you're boys lost in Cavs corner. Just kidding, just kidding. They've been awesome for months, whatever the record is. Since beginning of January they've been one of the three or four best teams in the league. And he said all of those shared experiences over that time have us. We've gone through everything we could go through. Everybody's had to play a part in it at different points and we have full belief in ourselves that we're any anytime we're in one of these situations, we're going to come back and win. I just thought it was an interesting way to talk about Continental went into how, as we all know, continuity is a thing, doesn't exist in the NBA anymore. And I just thought that was a very interesting thing for him to immediately go to in talking about why the Pacers keep doing this because we've talked a ton about the pace of play, the way, the way they fly around, the way they wear teams out. But I hadn't really thought about the fact that they have so much institutional history together, at least by current NBA standards, and thought it was a interesting thing to think about going forward.

[Tim Bontemps]

Well. And they've done a great job developing guys too. Nice. Smith is an unbelievable development story. And look, he's not like he was. I mean the guy was a, a late.

[Bobby Marks]

It was a lottery pick.

[Tim Bontemps]

A late. But you know, nobody said, oh wow, can you believe the Pacers got Neesmith in that deal for Brockton? Like he was. No, you know, nobody blinked at that. And the dude's just gotten better and better and better. Obviously last night was just an insane shooting performance by him, but the guy shot 42% from three last year, shot 43% from three this year he's become a like awesome three and D guy, you know, and, and you know, Nimhard, early second round pick. Like these role players that they've got that are, that are complementing Halliburton Siakam. Like there's been some major player development going on with the Pacers.

[Brian Windhorst]

Talk about going looking forward here. Bon temps. I thought the Knicks did a lot of things good in this game. That's how you build a 14 point lead with four minutes to go or whatever.

[Bobby Marks]

Yeah, 17 point, fourth quarter lead it.

[Brian Windhorst]

Was Carl Town's best game of the last two series, all told, in my view, he had, you know. And by the way, the Knicks executed a bunch of really good high pressure offensive plays in both the fourth quarter and overtime. They just couldn't stop the Pacers, which obviously is a problem, but, you know, there was a lot that they did under pressure that was impressive. Like I said, Towns was good. Brunson's had the foul Trouble, still had 43 points.

[Bobby Marks]

The only. The only thing that stopped Jalen Brunson in this game was the referee's whistle. He got whatever he wanted against the Pacers. And by the way, Aaron Nesmith was fouling him every trip down the court, right? And he's bigger than Aaron. Andrew Nemhard. Andrew Nemar couldn't guard him last year. Nemard had a ton of trouble again in this game. N. Smith is bigger, very physical. They put him on him. He did a pretty good job on him. I thought Jaylen still got whatever he wanted. Like, coming into this game, the three things that I was looking at really were Jalen Brunson, can they slow him down? They couldn't. Carl Towns and Miles Turner, how's that matchup gonna go? Carl Towns destroyed Miles Turner. Miles Turner was not even playing down the stretch of this game. They're playing Tony Thomas, Bryant in the fourth quarter of this game. It was very like he was basically just rendered inoperable for a lot of it. And Mitchell Robinson came in off the bench, dominated the glass Pacers had no hope of doing anything with him when he was on the court. So there were a ton of things, I think, from a Knicks perspective, where you come out of this game and say, if we just can avoid a catastrophic meltdown to end the game. Like, if the Knicks just have a normal.

[Tim Bontemps]

Other than that one minor detail. Yes.

[Bobby Marks]

Well, yes, obviously this looks vastly different with the Knicks losing the game, but if you stop the game with three minutes to go in game one, you're thinking the Knicks are in a pretty comfortable position in the series considering they were up 20 last year before the injuries really set in. That was without Julius Randle, and they were pretty damn comfortable for the vast majority of this game before Aaron Eastmith turned into the human torch and 12 other things happened and they lost. So I don't think it like, yes, the Pacers obviously have homecourt advantage. It's a huge break for them. It's a huge potential momentum swing. But the Denver Nuggets had a crazy comeback and beat the Thunder in game One last round and then lost by a thousand in game two and went on to lose the series at six to me. All right, went seven. I, I expect the series is going to be two, two after game four and indeed. And the Knicks will get two of the next three and we'll see how it goes from there. But I, I felt.

[Tim Bontemps]

Hold on, hold on, hold on. You're making nasty predictions about those Pacers. You got to go to Indy.

[Bobby Marks]

Yeah. What nasty prediction is there? It's going to be 2, 2 after 4.

[Brian Windhorst]

You're saying that the Pacers are good or the Knicks are going to win two of the next three now, not two of the next three after. It's 4, 4, 7 before the series started.

[Tim Bontemps]

Okay, he's saying it'll be.

[Bobby Marks]

But I think it's going to be 2, 2 after four games. I think the Knicks will win game two and I think the two teams will split in Indy and then we'll see what happens. But I, I came away from a field pretty good about where the Knicks are at in the overall picture of the series, obviously setting aside the, the awfulness of the final couple minutes for them, because I did think that a lot of the main themes to watch coming in all tilted pretty heavily in the Knicks favor without really a lot of reason to think it should shift back the other way. Like, the Pacers didn't have a good, good match for Carl Towns. He was very comfortable. The Pacers don't have a minix for Jalen Brunson, so they better be up.

[Tim Bontemps]

Double figures in the final minute because nine's not enough.

[Bobby Marks]

Well, I mean, I mean, four. I mean, they're up 14 with under three minutes to go, and that wasn't enough. So.

[Brian Windhorst]

Well, the, but the Knicks were. The have been the team that has been doing that, although they weren't doing it necessarily in that fashion, but they obviously walked down the Celtics twice. The, the thing about it is, and I mean, I know this is quite obvious, but the Knicks upset of the Celtics got real when they won game two. The Cavs real danger of their situation against the Pacers got real when they blew game two. Well, the Pacers took it, but the Cavs also blew it. So I know this. Again, obviously, if the Pacers win game.

[Bobby Marks]

Fall down, this series is going to. Yeah, if the Pacers win game two, this year is going to be really short.

[Brian Windhorst]

And I, you know, and I would, you know, this, this, you know, this momentum thing is in the NBA is fragile.

[Tim Bontemps]

So, yeah, momentum. I'm, There are exceptions, but for the most case, I don't believe in momentum. Game to game in playoff series. You know, like, you hear Dagonalt say it all the time. Each game is its own chapter. Each game's its own story.

[Brian Windhorst]

I agree. All right, well, Bon Thumps, we look forward to your coverage of it. And what time do we think McMahon will have started this podcast tonight? Let's take a. A guess. What do we think Bon Temps game's gonna start?

[Bobby Marks]

It. Game's gonna start at 8:43 Eastern Time, right?

[Brian Windhorst]

Yeah.

[Bobby Marks]

So what time.

[Brian Windhorst]

What time will this podcast will have started?

[Bobby Marks]

I'm guessing 1:35.

[Brian Windhorst]

Okay.

[Bobby Marks]

Eastern time.

[Brian Windhorst]

Okay, I'll take the over because I'm.

[Tim Bontemps]

Gonna be obnoxious about it.

[Bobby Marks]

Millennial. Just get. It'll just get booted by the. By the host who's got to get his sleep.

[Brian Windhorst]

I think we started about one. About 120 after game one.

[Tim Bontemps]

Was I on time?

[Bobby Marks]

Monday morning?

[Tim Bontemps]

Tuesday morning, Was I on time?

[Brian Windhorst]

Yes.

[Tim Bontemps]

All right.

[Brian Windhorst]

No, I didn't doubt you that.

[Bobby Marks]

I mean, you were on time, and you were on time in. In terms of your time. In terms of when you showed up. So we started when you were ready.

[Tim Bontemps]

No, in the morning, you doofus.

[Brian Windhorst]

No, it was 7:00am Are you talking.

[Bobby Marks]

About the chauffeur service? Well, listen, you know, the important thing is that the star's got to be properly chauffeured and on time. So you were there.

[Tim Bontemps]

I was not gonna.

[Bobby Marks]

Yeah, the Uber was called for 7am and the Uber arrived at 7am not.

[Tim Bontemps]

Putting my job in jeopardy.

[Bobby Marks]

Damn right. Five star rating.

[Brian Windhorst]

All right, thank you to Jackson for staying up all night. Thank you to Bon Tempson. McMahon. Thank you for watching and listening to the Hoop Collective. We will talk to you. We don't know when we'll talk to you. Probably talk to you next on Monday.

[Tim Bontemps]

Adios, amigos.

[Bobby Marks]

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