← Brian Windhorst & The Hoop Collective
Brian Windhorst & The Hoop Collective
Time For Bucks To Trade Giannis? Tough Decisions For Curry & Warriors + Former NBA Star Joakim Noah Joins!
01:02:06
Hoop Collective: Time For Bucks To Trade Giannis? Tough Decisions For Curry & Warriors + Former NBA Star Joakim Noah Joins!
Loading summary
Transcript162 lines
- [00:00]
A
Calling all sightseers and selfie takers.
- [00:03]
B
Welcome to Texas, where a day at.
- [00:04]
A
Our hiking trails will lead to a lifetime of memories. And family road trips become family legends where thrill seekers make a splash into spring fed pools and picky eaters will clean their plates. This is your invitation to visit Texas and see it for yourself. Visit traveltexas.com and plan your family's trip today. Let's Texas. Hello and welcome to the Hoop Collective podcast. We talk about the NBA which we're doing on Thursday afternoon. Joining us from Detroit, Michigan is Vince Goodwill.
- [00:43]
B
What's up, Wendy?
- [00:45]
A
Home of the Detroit Pistons, who are pace for 62 and a half wins. Just in case you wanted to know.
- [00:51]
B
That that is still insane to consider.
- [00:53]
A
Can you imagine you might be leaving Detroit and that might be where like all the playoffs are going to be like all year, all spring.
- [01:00]
B
Yeah. A couple players have told me I'm coming back in June.
- [01:04]
A
There you go. I respect it. Joining us from the American Airlines center in Dallas where he booted McMahon out is Anthony Slater.
- [01:11]
C
This is like McMahon's lair. We had to do an NBA today today and I, I figured we were doing it on the floor, but he said you got to come up here. So here I am with an interesting scene behind me.
- [01:22]
A
What a great nickname for something that, where McMahon is a layer. I think that's perfect. Yeah, I see some basketballs bouncing behind you. Who's down there on the floor at this time of day?
- [01:31]
C
I saw Anthony Davis with a motorcycle looking glove doing a individual workout. It's hard for me to tell exactly how hard or not hard he went, but he's on the court with a basketball and it's trade deadline season and he's a name. So it's just, it's a curious site.
- [01:48]
A
Wouldn't it be amazing if he was just with a motorcycle? If he just stopped with the motorcycle. I was like, oh my God, he's got a motorcycle. Vince, do you remember when the Bucs mascot used to drive a motorcycle around the court? Pregame was so loud. Maybe he still does. It was so loud I couldn't stand it.
- [02:03]
B
He might, he might still do that. I know they did that at the last at the Bradley Center. I feel like they were doing it there at the building that they tore down as opposed to the Fiserv forum, which was awfully quiet last night. I don't know if you noticed that, Wendy.
- [02:17]
A
I did notice it and we're going to talk about it a little later. But Bango is the mascot for the Bucks and he once brought me a birthday cake on my birthday mid game. I don't know what I was supposed to do. It was a very nice gesture. I don't know what I was supposed to do with the birthday cake mid game, but it was a very nice gesture. Thank you to Bango back in about 2005. I was younger then. I was in my 20s. All right, Slater. It's been an interesting week and a bad week for the Warriors. Jimmy Butler with the awful injury, was that Sunday or Monday? Was that Monday?
- [02:54]
C
What's today? Today is Thursday. It would have been Monday night against the Heat.
- [02:58]
A
Wow. Feels like it's been a long time since then. And then they played the following day against the Raptors and they got blown out by 30. What's the vibe around the team right now?
- [03:09]
C
Deflated. Deflated. You know, it was a bad time for them to have a back to back it. Jimmy Butler was in the locker room pre game Tuesday with the torn ACL the next day. You know, as they're just kind of figuring out, picking up the pieces of the aftermath. And it in a weird way it's been reminding me of the inverse of last year at this time when they got Jimmy Butler prior to getting Jimmy Butler, there was a deflated nature about how they were just kind of spinning their tires. They weren't going anywhere. They were hovering at.500. And then when they got Jimmy, y' all probably remember Steph Curry went on a surge. It was like 50 point games. You know, he probably over the course of a three week period, he was averaging 35 on an incredible shooting. And they would even talk about, you know, the invigorated passion they were playing with because they saw legitimate contention ahead of them all of a sudden because of Jimmy Butler. You know, that was the All Star break where Draymond Green proclaimed they, they were going to win a championship. What I've seen over the last three days is the, like I said, the opposite. With Jimmy Butler stripped from them very suddenly in a very tragic way. Right. The way he had to leave the court. You have Buddy Heald and Jonathan coming and dragging him to a wheelchair outside of the locker room the other day. It is a realization of what's really no longer obtainable, at least to this core. We'll see what happens in the next two weeks. As far as trade deadline goes, it seems implausible for them to get some type of roster mix that puts them back in fringe contention. But as of this moment, and you saw, I thought the other night against the Raptors, they go down 10, 0. They go down 30. Steph and Draymond don't even go in in the fourth quarter even as the bench units bringing them to single digits because it's. It almost just looked like that just wasn't the night for them to play because there was so much more bigger picture that they were kind of absorbing.
- [04:50]
A
Yeah, it sounds like Jimmy was just really devastated by the. Of course you tear your acl, you're devastated. But he knows how fragile the situation is there. And you know, of course Jimmy's vowing to come back and you know, get back by, you know, early next season, which is not impossible, but anytime next season I think would be a win. And from what I understand, he intends to rehab know with the warriors, with Rick Celebrini, who's very highly respected. I think he, you know, wants to send the message, I want, I want to be here. I'm not even, I'm not even going to go be away during my rehab because you know, I hate to say this, Vince, but, you know, when this injury like this happens and you got the Steph Curry timeline, you know, you wonder and I mean, look, Mike Dunleavy got asked. He had a press conference the day after Mike Dunleavy got asked. In addition to Kaminga's trade demand, he got asked about trading Jimmy. He's like, no, no, no, no, no. But of course he's going to say no. But the truth is like, I don't know what's going to happen.
- [05:44]
C
Did you see how he said that though? Because I asked him, I was like, look, d' Anthony Melton tore his ACL last year. You then very quickly, first day he was eligible, traded the Anthony Melton's contract for Dennis Schroeder, who you then re flipped for for Butler to make sure you didn't have just this empty money on your books at this urgent time for them. Would you do that with Butler? And he was like, oh, well, hadn't really thought about it. But now that you bring it up, you know, and I, I use the word could you envision. He's like, that's. He said it back like, I don't envision that. But I do think that's at least.
- [06:13]
A
Well, there's no way it's the first time he thought about it, but for sure it's. It's not very couth.
- [06:19]
C
No.
- [06:20]
A
Say, when the guy's laying there in the back still recovering from the initial terror, I'd be like, yeah, yeah, we could trade him.
- [06:26]
C
By the way, Mike Dunleavy's former teammate, who Mike is close with, who was the driving force of the Jimmy Butler trade when there were, you know, aspects, parts of the organization that were apprehensive about Butler. Like, he's the one that really pushed for the Butler trade. So I think that's like, within, you know, I don't know the context of all this.
- [06:44]
B
And former teammates, when Jimmy Butler became Jimmy Butler, too, like, that's another part of it where he respects the stature, he respects the career that Jimmy has built. I was in Chicago when Butler was most improved, won the all. You know, got to the All Star Game, all that. And Dunleavy was there and Dunleavy was. Wendy, you might remember this. He was supposed to be like this final piece, having been hurt for most of that season. Like, when Dunleavy comes back, we're all gonna, you know, it's all gonna fit together. Jimmy Butler was one of those people saying that. So there is a lot of respect amongst the two of those people. But we see where they are, like the surge that they've been on up until Jimmy got hurt. Eighth, you're still in the throes of the play in the Phoenix Suns, still have a better record than you. So even if you get this Kaminga thing situated where you wind up flipping them for something, even if Jimmy's part of. Let's just assume that he's not. But even if he is, it only brings you back to where you were before, which is five games over.500. That's not tenable for where this looks like this team can go this season. I mean, maybe I'm thinking too big picture here, y'.
- [07:55]
C
All.
- [07:55]
B
But are we quietly, like, very, very quietly, like we've been paying attention to Giannis. I know we're going to get there. And a bunch of other things that have been big pictured NBA wise. Are we watching, like, not just the slow death of the warriors dynasty and all that stuff, but it's going to come to a crashing halt this off season. Like, where they're going to have to make some real life decisions about or go to Steph Curry and say, hey, how do you want to spend your final year? Steve Kerr is not with a contract for next year. Like, there's a lot of questions that go beyond this. Maybe this Jimmy Butler thing just hastens that process.
- [08:33]
C
I mean, I think it's already been bleeding to a halt like this. You know, to me, the dynasty died the day the Raptor. You know, the two days where Durant tears the Achilles and Clay tears the knee. Of course they did win a title later. It's like kind of like the crowd.
- [08:50]
A
I mean that 2022 title is one of the most important moments of their.
- [08:54]
C
Whole run for sure. But it's just, you know, the, the slow death of the Klay Thompson. The story of like how it split with Klay Thompson and then his departure.
- [09:03]
A
Yeah, I would say, I mean you're there every day, but I would say when Klay left that was like where they're like, listen, we can't afford everybody.
- [09:10]
C
Anymore after Bob Myers, by the way, he was a monster figure in the dynasty and he openly, you know, departed. So we're just seeing like kind of like the fading days of like maybe you know, compared to a TV show that had 25 seasons and you know, yeah, we're in the, we're in the final chapters of it. And I do think it's, it's, it's at least profiling to split off piece by piece by piece. And that was Bob, that was Andre Godala, that was Clay. Steve is a possibility. We'll see how the next several months, look, Steph would seem to be the final one, but I think Steph Curry is going to end his career with the Warriors. He's only said he always wants to and we'll see what.
- [09:45]
A
Yeah, I can't see that. But look, Vince, what I will say is like there were when people envision like could, you know, because the warriors have all of their picks and swaps going forward unlike a lot of other teams. And like, look, let's just be honest. Slater mentioned this on NBA Today today, if you're going to be attracted to picks, it's like a. I'll look at some Golden State Warrior picks after Steph Curry is retired. Those potentially have value when you've got that and you've got Kaminga still there. And the one thing is people were saying, well, it's going to be hard for the warriors to trade for a big piece contract wise without them doing something like putting Draymond in. And putting Draymond in. It just doesn't seem like they would ever do that. Now they've got the Butler contract and I know that it's just not something anybody wants to talk about, but they've got the Butler contract and they've got all their picks. So it's possible they got something in there that they could do what that would be. We got to wait and see.
- [10:48]
B
I think everybody's in wait and see mode.
- [10:50]
C
Right.
- [10:50]
B
Like we've been talking about this whole, you know, everybody keeping their powder to dry because of what, you know, Giannis wants to do or potentially and how all those dominoes fit in. Golden State is just another one of those teams, I think. And Slater has kind of alluded to this and everybody's kind of danced around it a little bit. They just have to have honest conversations with themselves and say even his greatest step still is. Is there a player, a single player out there that completely changes your trajectory where you can squeeze another championship out? When all of the teams at the top of the west are young, with fresh legs and ain't afraid of no Steph Curry. And I'm not saying it as a disrespect, but this league moves so fast and you go from where things were to where things are, where Oklahoma City and San Antonio and possibly Houston or Minnesota, who I think is kind of a sleeping giant in this. Like, I just don't know if there's this one move that's out there. Even if you put Jimmy and Kaminga together and you got, and you can go and get a superstar in another player, does that put you in a position where you're more than a second round team? I'm not even sure that's the case.
- [11:58]
C
You know, they've been pretty honest that that's okay. Second round team is okay threat. What they did last year, they, they beat the Rockets, which was kind of, I don't know if you consider it an upset, but they were a seven seed out of the play in that took down the Rockets that they felt were going to give the Timberwolves a, a real threat in the second round before the hamstring injury to Steph Curry, you know, Steve Kerr calls it meaningful basketball, whatever. I think they're fine making a trade that doesn't put them in the Oklahoma City tier, but just puts them in. As you mentioned, you're, you're a Final Eight team. Maybe you can be a Final Four type team. Steph Curry's playing important may basketball and you know, we get those afternoon games and he still gets a few playoff moments because that's really what he wants. And I think they can operate that way and even talk so honestly, because their legacies are cemented, they don't need to win a night of title.
- [12:42]
A
Yeah, I know for some people to say, wait a minute, you're not trying to win the championship. Like you don't like, that's like some sort of sin. No, they're just trying to just try to feel the juice. Like I respect that. I respect it.
- [12:52]
C
But it's also why they're not just going to blast out all their post step picks for, you know, you know, Trey Murphy for example, a guy they are interested in.
- [13:00]
A
I guess it just depends on who's available.
- [13:02]
C
It certainly does.
- [13:04]
B
More Hoop Collective Podcast after this Watching.
- [13:08]
A
Someone close go through law shows how quickly grief can turn into financial stress. Experiences like that can change how people think about protecting their families. Life insurance isn't about expecting the worst, it's about making sure loved ones are supported no matter what. That's why life insurance through Ethos is worth considering. Ethos makes getting life insurance fast and easy. It's 100% online, so you can get a quote in seconds, apply in minutes, and get same day coverage. There's no medical exam. Just answer a few simple health questions, you can get up to $3 million in coverage. Some policies are as low as $30 a month. As of March 2025, Business Insider named Ethos the number one no medical exam instant life insurance provider and Ethos has 4.8 out of 5 stars on Trustpilot with over 3000 reviews. Protect your family with life insurance from Ethos now by going to ethos.com hoop in as little as 10 minutes, you can get your free quote and up to $3,000,000 in coverage at ethos.com hoop that's ethos.com hoop ethos.com hoop application times and rates may vary.
- [14:09]
D
This is pro linebacker TJ Watt and I'm back with YPB by Abercrombie for another activewear drop. My second co Design collection has new shorts and tanks that keep up with.
- [14:19]
A
All my in season workouts.
- [14:21]
D
And their new Restore collection is a game changer off the field too, because even pro athletes like me need rest days.
- [14:27]
A
Shop YPB by Abercrombie in the app.
- [14:30]
D
Online and in stores because your personal best is greater than anything.
- [14:40]
A
Good morning Crust. It's a great day to be a bread brother.
- [14:45]
C
Mornings are not my jam or jelly.
- [14:48]
A
Oh come on, stop loafing around. I just woke up feeling hollow inside.
- [14:53]
C
Just grab one of the new morning.
- [14:54]
A
Uncrustable sandwiches like Bright Eyed Berry or up an apple filled with 12 grams of protein and tons of deliciousness crust. What are you eating?
- [15:03]
C
It's just granola. Not even yogurt.
- [15:07]
D
No crust, no fuss.
- [15:08]
A
Uncrust your mornings. Speaking of, I have no idea what's going to happen between now and when this podcast posts. Maybe nothing. But Vince, you know this is your neck of the woods up there in the central division. The situation in Milwaukee, it's not getting better. And I'm not going to sit here and say that after 12 years, something that happens in a, you know, individual game, like, you know, the fans being annoyed and booing Giannis is going to make a difference, or Giannis saying, you know, that his teammates aren't, you know, they were too young or whatever. I'm not, I'm not paying attention to small stuff like that. But the direction of this Bucks team is not good. I don't see a way where that, that direction is going to materially change. I mean, they're playing poorly right now. I assume that they will play better, and especially if Giannis doesn't get traded, and that's no longer at all on their minds, that I do think they would play better after the trade deadline. But this team is not going anywhere this year, and I don't think it's going anywhere materially important next year. And so I just. When is somebody going to say enough is enough? Whether that's Giannis or whether that's the.
- [16:14]
B
Bucks team, nobody wants to be the bad guy. Like, this is, you know, this is what it is. Like neither one of us wants to be the first to say goodbye. I think that was a Gladys Knight song back in the day. That might be actually a little bit before my time, but I think that's what this is, is Giannis doesn't want to say, get me out of here. He doesn't want to look like the guy that five years from now when he comes back and he has a jersey retirement and he has a, you know, a statue of maybe more than five years, he's got plenty of, plenty of time left. He doesn't want to be the one to leave on bad terms or to feel like he is abandoning the franchise subsequently. Every time that Giannis has been at an inflection point with the Bucks, John Horst has done something. Well, Jrue Holiday going to get him or Eric Bledsoe, and then you trade a bunch of picks in the midst of that, and then you trade for Damian Lillard. And we thought that had a lot of Runway as far as a two man duel. It just didn't happen. Sometimes, guys, it's just what it is. Like, we are, and maybe this is sort of the Curse of LeBron in the way that we all feel like the superstars are entitled to play championship basketball with their franchise every single season. And sooner or later, the bill comes due on those micro moves that you are putting up to trade the aging players to bring in Maybe another aging player, but a higher ceiling and then the bottom falls out on you. Like Milwaukee actually has good pieces like the Ryan Rollins, the kpjs. Like certain guys like that you can see being good pieces on a championship level team. Just this does not look like a championship playoff contending second round, even given the first round, a scare team right now.
- [18:03]
C
This doesn't look like a seven seed in the East. No, this doesn't look like a top.
- [18:08]
A
19 team in the third right now they're 11th and look like a 13 right now. Now they may end up being an eight and maybe they're a frisky eight because they got an MVP level player. But come on guys, I mean you're not looking at this team saying they can win two playoff play in games, four games against one or two seed and then keep going like, you know, that's just not, that's not reality. It's just not reality.
- [18:36]
C
Is it the 2031 pick, their own 2031 they have, is that right?
- [18:40]
A
I think it's 2031 or 2032. They can trade one, not both.
- [18:43]
C
So again, like, you know we talked earlier about potentially the post Steph Curry picks and their value. I mean that is a very valuable particularly of unprotected pick on the market.
- [18:53]
A
Which is why they can't really trade it unless they're getting a guy that they think can put them into the conference finals. And who is that player?
- [18:59]
C
Yeah, but I mean Vinnie kind of said it there, but they've been operating in a very desperate, some would call it delusional way. Right. With the whole wave and stretch of Lillard, the Miles Turner stuff this offseason. It. Isn't that the question before the deadline, which road do you take if you are going to stay on this, you know, save the honest type thing. You, you could improve your team. I'm not saying improve it to a level that is realistic, you're infringed contention. But you know, Zach Levine, you know, name your, I don't know, like high priced guy who could come in and jolt you a little bit.
- [19:28]
A
I think they can only do more damage to their future.
- [19:31]
C
But are we sure they're not going to go down that I'm not sure.
- [19:34]
A
Nope, I'm not. Because I think.
- [19:36]
B
Here's the question I have for you, Wendy, I mean to cut you, but here's the question I have for you. Just generally, what is Giannis going for nowadays? Like when we think about the player packages and the deals and everything else, I don't think Giannis is going to go for, you know, three first round picks and swaps and matching salaries. And like, it's maybe for the Bucks to some degree. They're looking at what they can't get for Giannis in today's market and saying the best course of action is let's roll the dice. Because it's going to hurt one way or the other, and we'd rather it hurt later than have it hurt now, because the market in today's NBA economy doesn't call for Giannis to, you know, a return on Giannis to get what we think he's going to get.
- [20:23]
A
Okay, so that comes out a couple of things. Number one, I just want to point something out about the Bucs pick, and I'm guilty of sort of tossing this aside for much of the year, but I'm not going to do it anymore. The Bucs owe a swap this year to the Pelicans. It actually is going to get rerouted to the, to the Hawks, but the team that they're going to swap with is New Orleans. New Orleans, as you know, is not good. That pick may not swap, and if it does swap, it's going to be too. Well, hold on. If the Bucks decide to move on from Giannis and go into a tank and they can get their pick, I mean, they're already in 11th place. I mean, I should see. I don't even know where their pick is right now. But, you know, if you guys. I think they're 3 and 11 when Giannis doesn't play this year. So it's not like, you know, they're going to. It's that difficult. So their pick right now is ninth. Okay. And they are five games out of fifth. Okay, so. And New Orleans pick right now, they got the tie for the worst record with Indiana. So it's very possible that if they trade Giannis and shut it down, that they could really be assured of a pick in the top six seven. Either it's theirs or it's swapped. Like, let's say they get lucky and hop up into like third or fourth and they swap it out. But, you know, they can get a top pick in this draft with their pick that's still on the table. That's one thing to consider. Second thing to consider is because this draft is so good and maybe this is a reason you'd want to wait till the off season one, you'd want to let the string play totally out to the last fiber. And you could see what the lottery looks like and you could see like Maybe where, you know, a team might end up, like, you know, Atlanta might end up with that New Orleans pick. Not that I think Atlanta's beam down the door for Giannis, but, like, you could. You could see where Brooklyn ends up, right? You could see where Dallas ends up, you know, like, what happens if Dallas completes their shutdown and they end up. I don't think the Dallas would do that, but, like, you know, you could see. You could sort of see those things, but you could make a. Try to make a trade with one of those teams and you could end up with two top 10 picks or because you're going to tank and you feel like you're going to get a high pick anyway, then when you potentially look to see what the Giannis market is, you know, that getting a high draft pick may not be the number one priority, and getting players and future picks may be the number one priority, and that brings in more teams that the big question would be, you know, obviously one, is Giannis going to actually ask for a trade or is he going to stick with what he said and he's not. Is Milwaukee going to move off their position where they're not going to do anything, or are they going to examine it? And if they do get to that spot, if they do get to where most of them other teams feel like they're going to get to, is it going to be open to trade anywhere? Are they going to have to go to Giannis and go side by side? I would think they would go to Giannis and go side by side. The prickly thing with that is Giannis doesn't want to be, you know, known as the guy who said, I want to go to a certain place because that would be away from Milwaukee. So there's this tight pathway. You know, Giannis wants the Luka treatment from. Not. I shouldn't say Giannis wants this. Let me take that back.
- [23:25]
C
Trade it overnight.
- [23:26]
A
It would be amazing for the modern superstar. What you would like to have is the Luca Love from Dallas, okay, where every fan in the market still thinks you're the greatest thing in the world. They're wearing your jersey, they're cheering for you when you come back, they love you, but they don't want the Luka where they don't have any idea they're getting traded. Now, Luka ended up at a place that's a pretty good place, and he was ready to sign a contract extension.
- [23:54]
C
How about this? The difference between when Kevin Durant goes to Oklahoma City and when Russell Westbrook goes to Oklahoma City. Is what you're saying.
- [24:01]
A
Right. But the. Russell Westbrook was greased because Paul George wanted out first.
- [24:06]
B
But, but let's be honest here. The Milwaukee Buck fans, let's say Giannis does say, you know what, at this point, I want out. Who would actually blame him? Like what reasonable fan. And maybe reasonable fan is an oxymoron. Right?
- [24:19]
A
That's because you get the drip, drip, drip. That's happened.
- [24:22]
B
Yes.
- [24:22]
A
If he had done that a year ago, it would have been different.
- [24:25]
B
Maybe he should have just. And someone told me this a couple days ago, maybe Giannis should have just pushed a lot harder over the summer to go to the Knicks.
- [24:32]
A
Well, I think Giannis should have done it last summer because I don't think this Bucs team was going anywhere. And I think the Bucs did more damage to themselves by doing the wave and stretch and Miles Turner. And I think it would have been better for everybody if it happened last summer. That said, I have said on this podcast for couple of years that I respect that an organization that didn't go to the finals for 40 years after Kareem asked to be traded wants to play it out to every fiber, the string out to every fiber. And that they're just trying to be incredibly respectful and understanding of the talent that they have. And so I get it. But in a vacuum, I think last summer would have made more sense for everybody.
- [25:09]
B
I respect teams that go forward. I will say that Wendy. I respect teams not. You know what I mean.
- [25:15]
A
Doc's been around too long. What does Doc want to rebuild? Doc wants, I mean like Doc went in and said I believe we could win with this team.
- [25:21]
C
So they're going to shoot themselves in the foot again at this deadline and throw a pick that could be a top five come 2031 to go get a. Like I said earlier, like I would.
- [25:29]
A
Absolutely not do that. I would absolutely not do that.
- [25:32]
C
They shouldn't. But might they?
- [25:34]
A
They might.
- [25:35]
C
And, and, and Wendy, you would know this better. Isn't all the current signals right now that that that is still there. Thought they're buyers, not sellers is essentially the way to put it.
- [25:44]
A
Last week I was like they're only making, you know, by the way, I said this yesterday on TV and people totally misinterpreted this. When I say a team's making an outgoing calls, it means they're calling trying to get players. Incoming calls is when people want your players. Obviously you can make an outgoing call to offer your players, but generally the turn. I said last night that the Bucks have only Been making outgoing calls, and people were like, oh, they're calling, offering Giannis. I'm like, no, you numbskulls. All the everybody's, you know, the aggregation. Everyone's, you know, drool is coming down and, like, they can't get to their keyboard fast enough. But that's another.
- [26:21]
B
You should rename this pod Don't Aggregate Me.
- [26:24]
A
Well, that's all I'm saying.
- [26:24]
B
That is like, the one thing that you absolutely hate is, I don't know if there's another pet peeve, Brian, that you have. And when you preface something by saying I, I don't want to get aggregated here. And that's exactly what winds up happening anyway. And maybe there's another pod by the name of Don't Aggregate Me, but I feel like that would be a more appropriate name.
- [26:46]
A
Yeah, well, there is. I don't have a problem with aggregation because we aggregate stuff at ESPN all the time. I have a problem with reckless aggregation, such as the Bucks are making only outgoing phone calls. They're not taking incoming calls, which is that they're not looking to trade Giannis. They're trying to acquire players. They're buyers, not sellers. And then it shows up on social media as report colon. Bucks looking to make to trade Giannis. Or somebody could just use what I just said. That is reckless aggregation, and that is what is damaging. But that's neither here nor there. But to get to your point, Vince, you talk to people. I have not heard that the Bucs are backing down from wanting to be buyers. I don't have it up to date to this very second, and maybe it changed in the last three hours, and I'll find out tomorrow, but I have not heard the Bucs have changed course.
- [27:45]
B
I haven't either. The crazy thing for me is every time they go on like a two or three game skid, I'll get variations of the same text and phone calls. And almost like they're circling. Almost like the vultures are circling around that franchise. Waiting.
- [28:02]
A
Yeah, they want to speak.
- [28:03]
B
Not even just for Giannis. Yeah, Just kind of watch what's going on in Milwaukee. Like, they lost two in a row now. And I never think it's that fragile, but the league thinks it's that fragile. You know what I mean, Wendy? Like, there's something to it. I don't think that John Horse is operating in some bizarro world or whatever, but the league seems to believe, by and large, not everybody, but a lot of people that I talk to seem to think that every three game losing streak, we're just that much closer to complete blow up. And maybe things, sooner or later it's going to, I mean, sooner or later something's going to happen.
- [28:41]
A
I agree that that is, you know, ridiculous when that happens and you say that, you know, whatever. But then what? Then you say, okay, but we've seen, let me see how they play games. They've played, they've played 40. What does the Bucks play? The Bucks have played 45 games now. 43 games and they're 18 and 25. You know, on one hand, you know, a three game losing streak doesn't define anything. But on the other hand, you know more than half the season when you're seven games under.500 and you're, you know, you're a game and a half out of the, the last play in spot, you know, that's, you know, you're 3 and 11 when Giannis doesn't play. That's not, that's what defines where your team is. So. All right, well, Vinny and Slater, thank you so much for taking time out. We're a little shorter with these guys today because we have a special guest coming up. I recorded this a couple days ago with Joakim Noah, who is very much looking forward to Derek Rose. How about Derrick Rose is getting his number retired on Saturday. Benny?
- [29:38]
B
That is pretty damn cool, to be perfectly honest with you. To watch to having watched Derrick Rose, even the tail end of Derrick Rose. Wendy, were you in the building when he had the biggest pop I've ever heard in an arena when he banked that three off the glass against the Cavs in 2015 on a Friday night?
- [29:58]
A
Yeah. And they raised him up on their shoulders and his face didn't change expression.
- [30:03]
B
He didn't. That was the most. And that was also the most emotion, positive emotion I've ever seen from Tom Thibodeau ever. And he damn near ran over a fan pumping his fist. Cause even he didn't believe that that went in.
- [30:17]
A
Right, right. So Joe is very, he's very kind of sort of emotional about talking about Derek and that team. Which we'll talk, which you'll talk about right after this.
- [30:29]
C
He's attending it. Right.
- [30:31]
A
He. Oh my God. The whole team is at, well, his point. I don't want to take away from what he said. But yes, the whole Bulls era team is expected to be there. So he'll.
- [30:38]
B
And he deserves that mvp.
- [30:41]
A
Derrick Rose did. Of course he deserved that mvp.
- [30:44]
B
We relitigated that MVP for some reason. And I don't see why?
- [30:48]
A
Well, there are some MVPs that LeBron didn't win that you could make a case that he should have won. I don't think that's one of them.
- [30:54]
B
That's not the one. That's not the one.
- [30:56]
A
That team won 61 games, I think. And Derrick Rose, like that's off top of my head. I don't have a research to this second, but I think he won them like seven or eight games with incredible play down the stretch. He was materially the reason they got the number one seed with his fourth quarter play. And LeBron's numbers dipped that year. His numbers were still awesome, but his numbers went down. So LeBron has some cases for some years where he didn't win the mvp. I just don't think that's one is the strongest. But that was in the prime of his prime. He won four out of five and that was the one he didn't. So you know, I can see why. And of course they, they beat him 4:1 in the playoffs, which Joe talks about coming up right now.
- [31:34]
B
More Hoop Collective podcast after this.
- [31:39]
A
The world moves fast. Your workday even faster. Pitching products, drafting reports, analyzing data Microsoft 365 Copilot is your AI assistant for work built into Word, Excel, PowerPoint and other Microsoft 365 apps you use, helping you quickly write, analyze, create and summarize so you can cut through clutter and clear a path to your best work work. Learn more@Microsoft.com M365 copilot save on appliances at the Home Depot with up to $1,000 off, plus up to an extra $500 off select appliances like Whirlpool that can keep up with your busy routine. The Home Depot has Whirlpool Laundry Appliances with Fan Fresh. This feature fans and tumbles your laundry after it's done to help keep your clothes fresh until you're ready to grab them.
- [32:25]
B
Shop now and get up to $1,000.
- [32:27]
A
Off plus free delivery on select appliances Appliances at the Home Depot how doers get more done Free delivery on appliance purchases of $999 or more. Offer valid January 8th through the 28th. US only C store online for details. All right now, joined from Miami. Although you're an international man of mystery because you're all over the world. Joakim Noah what's up Joe?
- [32:57]
D
Kim how you doing, Brian? Everything all right?
- [32:59]
A
Yeah man. The last time I saw you was in Serbia a couple weeks ago and I learned that you pretty much stayed overseas for like a month and you went to Cameroon, where your father is from and where you've invested in youth basketball. So you've, you know, you're a man of the world. And so I'm not surprised that you're. That you're doing that you're. That you're doing stuff like that.
- [33:24]
D
Thank you, man. Appreciate that, Brian. Feels good to be home. I'm not going to lie, though.
- [33:29]
A
Yeah, that's right. You're not. You're. You were saying earlier it's nice to have Uber eats. Although we had some good food in Serbia. Now, you know, we ended up going to lunch and hanging out with Sasha Pavlovich. And I feel like Sasha Paulovic, former Cav, he played in the NBA same time you did. And I think I sort of got the Serbian spirit. Like we were sitting there at lunch with Sasha and he goes, right now I'm on a 72 hour fast, which was like a religious thing that he was doing. He's like, oh, yeah, I'll have Rakija. Rakiya bring that with 72 hour fast. So you've been around the world and you're doing this new show, which I'll talk about in a minute. But that was my first visit to Belgrade. What did you take away from your experience there? We sort of were there at the same time.
- [34:24]
D
Yeah, that was a really special trip, you know, and obviously we started a show about six months ago. This was our fourth episode, and we knew that the basketball culture over there was something different and something unique. Never been. I had Serbian teammates and, you know, I just wanted to check it out for myself. Got to see an unbelievable game, Red Star against Partisan, and got to meet a lot of old teammates, former teammates, and just get a feel for the spirit of that place. And I couldn't have been more impressed, more inspired, and it all makes sense.
- [35:03]
A
Yeah. So this show, you really want to immerse yourself in these places for a short period of time. And it's about basketball, but it's also about culture. Some of the places you've also gone, you've been to Jamaica, you've been to Morocco, Serbia. Those are all very different places. By the way, when I saw you in Jamaica swimming in the water, I was like, if you said to me that Joe Kim Noah is doing an Anthony Bourdain style show about basketball and culture, and I could just see you in Jamaica swimming in the water, I was like, this is exactly what I would think it would look like. But you were totally immersed in, like you were seeing different sites in Belgrade, looking around. I'm looking forward to seeing the episode when it comes out because I experienced that a little bit too. And this is an interesting career move for you because it makes total sense that you would do this. When you approach these situations, like when you approach Belgrade, what are you looking to get out of it? What are you looking to share with the people who are watching?
- [36:13]
D
So we were just over there just looking for, driving around Belgrade. And you know, it was. There were basketball courts everywhere. So we would stop and you know, play some two on two with some kids and ask them some questions. And we're just like walking through the city and I'm just hearing, like I could hear a practice going on and we just walked in super organically. It wasn't planned and it was just unbelievable to see these 10 year olds practicing the level of coaching. You know, the coach stopping the practice every two seconds. You know, I told you not to run to the corner. Run through the middle and then you go to the corner. How many times do I have to tell you? And just the way the kids listen to instruction, it was just, it was a breath of fresh air. It was beautiful to watch. Just, you know, the tutelage.
- [37:10]
A
I'm sure the coaches knew who you were, but did, did any of the. Did. I mean, I've been with you in fr. At games. Obviously you're major. Everybody knows you there. And a lot of people in Serbia, you know, there's big basketball fans knew you, but I assume the 10 year olds probably didn't know. Did they even know who you were?
- [37:27]
D
No, honestly, no, they, they don't. They never really saw me play. But you know, they, you know, as soon as I say, look, I, I played in the NBA for 13 years. I have an experience. I played against some of the best players in the world and I played for the Chicago Bulls. You know, now I have their interest and we can have. It's kind of. I actually like it better when they don't know because I'm able to have. We're able to have deeper conversations. It's not fandom, it's just more they, they're more interested in because they all have the same dream. Wherever we go around the world, wherever you go around the world, the dream for these kids are the same. It doesn't matter where. If you're in Morocco or Jamaica or Serbia, you say NBA. Every kid has the dream of getting there. So it's, it's just my way of being able to go in there and being able to talk to the Next generation.
- [38:27]
A
Yes. By the way, like, were you talking, were you speaking English to these kids and they were picking it up or was there a translation? The coach.
- [38:34]
D
The coach. A lot of people spoke English over there. I was actually.
- [38:38]
A
That's what I was gonna say. I had no problem at all.
- [38:41]
C
No problem.
- [38:42]
D
Even the kids speak English, so not, not all of them. So the coach was translating a little bit. But it was just a very organic moment. You know, it wasn't planned, it wasn't on the schedule. I ended up just walking into a gym and spending an hour with these kids. And look, I'm sure they got an experience out of it, but I definitely got a hell of an experience out of it. And you know, obviously that development, basketball development is so interesting and their development over there is some of the best in the world. And it was just very interesting to walk into a place as grassroots as they come and see how they teach 10 year old kids basketball. And it was very different than what we see at home.
- [39:30]
A
Yeah. And so these are the types of experiences you're looking for on this show, Nomad. And of the episodes that you've done so far, like I'm, you know, Serbia was definitely one of my most amazing experiences. But what are some of the things that you've done that you think are going to be memorable for you that have been in these experiences? Because I know you did one in Chicago also with Derrick Rose. You went back to did one in Chicago where you played for whatever it was, eight or nine years or whatever.
- [40:01]
D
They're all very unique, all very different, but all learning experiences I really enjoy. Obviously Derek is one of my best friends. That was probably the easier one to do just because of my comfort level, just having played with Derek for so long and so much to say. We spoke a lot about fatherhood on that episode.
- [40:23]
A
Yeah. He said he looked at your relationship with your father. He said he never told you this unless I'm remembering it correctly, but he looked at your relationship with your father, Jannik, as an example of how he wanted to parent his kids.
- [40:37]
D
Yeah, I mean, it's, you know, it's. Our relationship is, is unique mostly because when he got hurt, we got to spend a lot of time together and I think this was a very lonely time for him. A lot of questions. So to be able to. We really bonded during that time when, when he got hurt, you know, he had a very, very different story. You know, you're coming from Chicago. You come from Chicago. You're the number one pick. You're one of the most exciting players to watch, and all of a sudden, all that is taken away from you with an injury. And, you know, basketball is. Is how we were raised. It's really all we know at that point of our lives. And it's now you have to sit back and wait a year. I don't think people realize how hard that moment must have been for him. So to be able to be there with him, talk about fatherhood, talk about, you know, just, you know, we were. There was. You know, I introduced him to Bob Marley during that time, and we were just. It was just. It was very different. It was just like something that I think was very. Our relationship really grew during that time. And one of the most humble superstars that I've ever been around and just so excited for him. Obviously we have the jersey retirement coming up, right?
- [42:10]
A
Yeah, well, so he got honored by the Bulls last year, and that was a special moment. And then they're going to retire his jersey here coming up. And from, you know, from what I understand, this is going to be kind of, you know, it's. It's for him, you know, number one's going up alongside Jordan and Pippin and all that stuff. And that's amazing. But it's also sort of a celebration of. Of those years where you guys were. You had some great teams, you know, you and. And Derek and Lu All Deng and Taj Gibson and what other Bulls am I forgetting in that era? You know, Kirky worky.
- [42:51]
D
Kirky worky. We got the Duck, Brad Miller, I mean, endless. Drew Goode. And we had a great, great group. And Brian, I'll say this, look, I was around. I won championships in college. This was a really tight group. And chemistry is always something that people don't talk about enough. It's always about stats and, you know, get how you get getting paid. But this was a really tight group. And so Derek going up there is. It's not just him. It's just. It's. It's our team. And we didn't win a championship, but so this is our championship. Like our brother, our leader, our humble leader, our humble superstar is going up next to Michael and Scottie. You know, it's. It's. I think it's something that we're all very proud of and nobody deserves it more. And the story is just. Is so powerful because. Because of all the ups and downs. You know, I think that, you know, through the adversity, we still kept our brotherhood. And that's something I couldn't be more proud of.
- [44:09]
A
I was on the sideline for so many of those games. You know, when I was a kid, I grew up outside Cleveland and the Cavs had great teams. You know, Mark Price, you know, the guys that are on their rafters. Mark Price, Brad Dougherty, Larry Nance, and year after year they would have like these mid 50, high 50 win teams and you know, they would have, it would be the 2 seed in the Eastern Conference and they would run up against the guy in Chicago 23, and they could get past him. You know, he's one of the greatest athletes of all time, greatest basketball player, whatever. They just couldn't get past him. They had great teams and they were, they entertained and bonded with an entire generation of Cleveland fans. You know, Brad Dougherty is on the broadcast now. Price was on the broadcast. You know, Larry Nance's son plays for the team. You know, Larry Nance Jr. Came back to play for the Cavs because of his connection, you know, from his, from his father. He was so bonded to the area. He lives there in the off season, you know, and. But they branded kept running to 23. And so I can appreciate the situation's inversed, Joe, because you guys had these great teams in Chicago. Yeah, that's right. Form, you know, built from, you know, most of you guys drafted a few of the guys, you know, you, Derek Luwall, Heinrich, Taj, all drafted. A couple of guys came in as free agents or whatever, but basically homegrown like those Cavs teams were. And you ran into LeBron, ran into him when he was in Cleveland, you ran into him when he was in Miami and you fought admirably and with honor and you just ran into one of the all time greats. And so just because, you know, I have a relationship with Brad Doherty, have a relationship, you know, I got to know Mark Price a little bit. I got to know the Nance family. Like they are very proud of that time. But they, you know, they couldn't ever quit the banner because they ran into Jordan. So you can relate to this in the exact inverse because you guys had a pride about your, about yourself and you went up against LeBron with vigor, with pride and tried to beat him and you just couldn't beat one of the best players of all time.
- [46:21]
D
That's 100%. That's exactly what it is. And it took a while to come to grips with that. You know, every year it was like we really felt like we, we had a chance and we, you know, but it's, it's, it's. I can look back on Those times and say, like, wow, just the blessing of being able to go up against one of the greats. And you know, just every single day, weight room training, just thinking about, you know, circling the games on, on the calendar of when we were gonna pick cle, when we were going to play LeBron, you know, and I think that's the ultimate sign of respect, you know, is just understanding the magnitude of the game and understanding that, you know, to get to where we wanted to get to, ultimately we had to beat that guy. And unfortunately it never happened. But, you know, it's, you know, just coming to peace with the journey and just seeing how well he's still playing at 41 years old and, and just like looking back on those moments and being able to cherish the competition at the highest level and look, I feel like we did our best. Unfortunately, it didn't happen. Adversity, injuries. But I look back at those times and I know in my life I will never get the feeling of, you know, going to the United center and playing against LeBron James. Like it was, it was electrifying.
- [47:58]
A
And look, here's the thing. Regardless of whether he would ever say, I mean, I'm sure he would say this, he would have taken you on his team in 1/10 of a second, you know, like for all the Hollywood is held, which I loved. And you know, like when you would clap in his face and you would, you know, you know, you would yell at him from the bench like, I loved all that because nobody would, nobody would step to him like that. And the one season, their first, his first year in Miami, I think you guys went three and oh against him. That was the 60 win year. That was Derek's MVP year. And then you, you guys go three and O against him. And then you win game one of the playoff series, conference finals. And, and then that series is just skin tight. It goes down as 4:1. But one of the games that Miami went to overtime, and then game five in Chicago, the Heat hit a whole bunch of threes. You guys were ahead. The Heat like had this hot shooting streak and you guys lost by three. And then the next year, you guys are awesome again, I think the number one seed again. And Derek gets hurt the first game of the playoff. And so while I can, I can say like, you will be remembered as all. As having. As being one of the greatest college teams ever, like, you've got those two championships, you'll be remembered as this great Florida Gator and you'll remember it as this great bull. And you go around the world. I've seen you in different places in the world, and you remembered, and you have that. But also, I know that you've got to be like, what if. What if Derek didn't come down on his leg like that? What if, you know, they shot 45% instead of 55% on threes in game five? Like, I can appreciate that.
- [49:25]
D
Thank you, Brian. You know, it's. It's interesting to see, like, you know, the narrative. People forget the storylines quick. It's. It's all about did you win or did you lose? Especially as the time goes on. So, like I said, look, you lose in a playoff series of that magnitude, especially when it's that close, you don't sleep for weeks. Especially, you know, I mean, I wore my emotions on my sleeve. It was just. It was as. As tough as you can imagine to lose those series. And, yeah, there is some what ifs, but, you know, what if Derek didn't get hurt? And, you know, people come up to me all the time with that. And, you know, what, to see our guys be at peace and to see Derek be at peace with his journey, that, to me, is something that I'm more proud of than anything I see. There's a lot of championship teams out there that they don't even like each other. You know, they don't.
- [50:30]
C
They don't.
- [50:30]
A
They're so accurate, and they don't.
- [50:33]
C
They don't.
- [50:33]
D
They don't protect the work that they put in, and they don't protect the brand at all costs. And I think that we have this thing where, yeah, it wasn't perfect. There were, you know, there were issues, but we protect those times because we cherish those times even though we didn't win. And there is some what ifs. There has to be gratitude in living out our dreams. And when we were kids, we had dreams of playing at the highest level, and we all did that, and we did it with a group that we actually enjoyed each other. We just. I mean, I have stories for days with those guys. It's a real brotherhood.
- [51:16]
A
It is so true. Because, look, I know that the ring culture, like, I know rings are so important, and ring culture is, you know, it is what it is. But, like, there is. You guys entertained a generation of Bulls fans. And, you know, I think. I think your partner Matt was telling me when you went to Abu Dhabi last year, you ran into a Bulls fan and who lived overseas. And, you know, he's, you know, not. Not an American, basically, so I don't remember where he was From. And he said he had two kids. One kid he named Rose, his daughter he named Rose, and his son he named Noah. And because for that, for those years, like, if you were a Bulls fan, regardless of where your team exited, you were for months on end totally engaged in that team. And the way you guys played and, you know, the way Tibbs coached you guys, you know, was. It was a classic example of. Of the head coach and the. And the mentality, although, I'm sure, you know, famously, you guys wore each other out. But, you know, the mentality all work together. Like, that doesn't. It doesn't go to zero because you. You guys lose a playoff series. You know, what about all of those years and months, whatever. So that's sort of my. Exactly my philosophy.
- [52:28]
D
I appreciate that. And even Tibbs, like, even what you were saying, it was like, even what you were saying about Tibbs, like, look, it didn't. When it ended, it wasn't pretty. But the fact that, you know, Tibbs will be there at Derek's retirement celebration and that, like, okay, like, you know, in families there, there's issues, but, you know, you reconcile and everything's gonna be like, we're gonna cherish this moment because it not just there, going up there, it's for all of us. And it's something that I couldn't be more proud of. Like, I can't wait to see all those guys and be able to talk about, you know, those. Those times. So it's not. Obviously, there is some what ifs, but, you know, it doesn't. It's not who we are.
- [53:18]
A
We.
- [53:18]
D
We. We walk in gratitude and. And we cherish those moments.
- [53:25]
A
So while we were sitting in Belgrade having lunch with Sasha Pavlovich, which I look forward to, I don't know how much of that interview you'll use in the show, because, you know, you keep these shows relatively tight. It's one of the things that's good about him.
- [53:34]
C
It's.
- [53:35]
A
There's a lot of stuff going on these episodes. They're like 15, 20 minutes or whatever. But Sasha, you know, is a guy that I knew as a Cav, and you were talking to him about the Serbian mentality and how, you know, the Serbian mentality sometimes is knowing you're going to lose and. And, you know, butting your head into the wall, even knowing you're going to lose. You know, that was some of the stuff you're talking about. And so I was just fascinated watching you learn about the Serbian mentality. And you said to me, you're like, hey, man, I think I'm going to go to Cleveland and do a Nomad show from Cleveland. And like, so I like, I like sat back in my seat because at one hand I was like, wow, you're going to do this? And on the other hand I was like, of course you are. This is the point of the show. And I said, okay, if you do it, you have to go in the winter. You can't go in July. You know, you have to see Cleveland when it's raw. Not that you don't know what it's like to be in the winter from New York City played in Chicago, but. And you're like, so, so you're planning on doing it. So you are going to, you know, you're going to do distinguishing, you know, with Derek, but you are planning to go shoot an episode in Cleveland coming up. And in case people don't remember, I know that many of them will, but you obviously had those comments in the playoffs in 2000 and the time and place of that. Joachim is like, Cleveland is petrified, correctly, that LeBron's about to walk. And you know, he's going to walk for New York, he's going to walk for Los Angeles, he's going to walk for Chicago, he ends up walking for Miami. So Cleveland is self loathing. On an average day, they are petrified that their favorite son is walking to a bigger market, a more glamorous market. And you are in the middle of a battle and you basically say, you know, you say Cleveland isn't a place to go on vacation, which is accurate. People don't go on vacation to Cleveland. And so the re. One of the reasons why everybody got their backup and you know, naturally, because it's a playoff series and the other team is hated for those two weeks or whatever is because Cleveland was so scared. Now, I don't know if that'll translate 15 years later, but part of it was a time and place. But I, I think it's amazing that you're planning on doing this.
- [55:38]
D
I appreciate that. You know, it's just, I think it's time. It's, you know, people. I was walking in the airport the other day and I'm sitting down, I got my music, I'm waiting for my flight, and somebody knocks me on the shoulder and like, hey man, I'm from Cleveland. And he had a lot to say. And he had a lot to say and you know, he was talking with like a lot of passion and you know, it's what you said about Cleveland. I was like, dude, it was. It was 20 years ago. Like, you know, at some point, you just gotta let it go. And the truth is, I don't know that much about Cleveland. All I know is the battles. And when I said it, you know, you could tell I was. We had lost the game. I was bitter.
- [56:26]
A
That's right.
- [56:27]
D
I had to go back. We had to go back and play. Play a Game two in that building, which was. Which was nuts. And. But people really gravitated. I mean, I went to a party at All Star. They stopped the music. The DJs, like, hey, man, I'm from Cleveland, man. Definitely something that stuck to people in a lot of ways, but I don't think people also understood the context. For me, it was just like, you're playing against LeBron James, and you know what? It was a time for us to just kind of take a stab at him. Like, yo, we're not scared and we're ready to. We're just going to keep battling. And it's like, it's your city against my city, and this is how we're going to do it. Um, but it still resonates with people 20 years later. And, you know, right now, like I said, it's all about reconciliation and being able to learn about different places. And I made those comments not knowing anything about Cleveland except for the basketball arena, to be honest. So I think Cleveland's in a really good place. They got a really good team. I love Coach Atkinson. You know, Mobley's a hell of a player. So I love watching Cleveland play. So hopefully we can go to a game and explore a little bit, and maybe I'll have some different feelings about the city.
- [57:50]
A
I think it's going to be tremendous because, number one, I know how these shows are. I saw how you were operating in Serbia, and I actually think people are going to really embrace it. And here's the thing again, everybody in Cleveland's got their backup. Like, if. When you come there. And, like, I'm not saying it'll be a hundred percent for everybody, but they're gonna. I. I think people are gonna appreciate it, you know, especially since you're. I don't know when you're going in January or February, but, you know, like, that's when you should. You was. When you should see it. And so I think it's awesome that you're doing it. And the thing about it is, like, the people viscerally reacted to you because of how difficult an opponent you were. And that series, it was 4:1. That series was 4:1. But again, it was a lot closer than that. And in that particular moment, it was almost a showcase for where the Bulls were going as a team than it was like, anything. And you guys won 60 games the next year with the number one seed. Like, you guys were definitely on the rise. And so, yeah, I'm just like, I think it'll be a great episode. I'm so glad you're doing it. Obviously, you could.
- [58:56]
D
Any recommendations?
- [58:58]
A
Yeah, I mean, I talked to Matt about it. But first off, Cleveland is a very ethnic city. You know, there's a lot of places in Cleveland that even generations after their families, you know, immigrated, that there's still very ethnic sides of it. And I think that's perfect for you. And also, I know that you're a man of culture. You've seen the world, you know, and I'm not, you know, when I compare Cleveland to. When I talk about Cleveland, like, right now. So I've lived in Miami. I lived in New York City. I'm obviously from the Cleveland area. I've been all over the world. I live in Omaha. Right. So that's my perspective when I talk about the art scene in Cleveland. I am not trying to say that it is going to rival Paris. You're not going to walk into Cleveland and say, oh, this is reminiscent of the Louvre. You're not going to walk into Cleveland and say, oh, this is neck and neck to moma in. In New York. But there are some places in Cleveland, the theater district and the arts district, you know, with the museums, that are not. You know, the other thing about Cleveland is, like, there are some neighborhoods there that at the. You know, Cleveland is past. You know, I hope I'm not grilled for this. Cleveland is probably not in its prime. It's past its prime. But there are some areas that were built in the prime where Cleveland was one of the best places in the country. And so you can go there and be like, look at this neighborhood. Like, this neighborhood is as beautiful as any neighborhood you will see in a. In a winter city in a lot of places. So I. And I'm so. I. I think it's. I think you're going to enjoy it. I'm not saying you won't get somebody won't as yell out of a car on the way by, but that's who you are. Like, that's. You didn't put. The way you played basketball. You knew you were going to ruffle some feathers. You're gonna upset some people. And so I think it's a perfect thing.
- [60:47]
D
Yeah. It's gonna. I'm excited. I'm excited to just. Just spend some time with the people over there and hear their perspectives on Cleveland. And I don't know, I just feel like it's gonna be. It's exciting. We're going in a couple weeks, and I'll come back with some stories.
- [61:06]
A
All right, well, thank you, Joe Keem, for spending some time with us. I know you're always off on another adventure. I hope you have a great experience with Derek on the Jersey retirement. And I, I. I gotta say, like, the Serbia episode, like, people on my podcast have heard about my visit to Serbia. Joachim was there for the game and everything, but also, literally cannot wait for that. And like, Cleveland is coming up, and if you want. And while you're waiting for that, you can go see him with the Derek when he went to Chicago and also when he was hanging out in Jamaica and in Morocco.
- [61:39]
D
This is.
- [61:39]
A
This is a great project for you. Like, this is so much better than you sitting next to me analyzing, you know, the first half of a game. Even though I would welcome you with me at ESPN at any time. This is so in your. In your lane. So I'm. I'm.
- [61:53]
D
Thanks, Brian.
- [61:54]
A
This is really cool.
- [61:55]
D
Appreciate you.
- [61:56]
A
All right, we'll see you soon. Somewhere in the world.
- [61:59]
D
Take it easy, man.
- [62:05]
A
Man, I love that conversation with Joaquim Noah, man, I'm so glad he did that. We had a great time in Belgrade. That episode, I think, is coming out soon, so we'll give you an update on what it is. And, you know, he was kind of emotional talking about Derrick Rose there especially. I liked what he was talking about, how their team, even though they didn't win, they got blocked by those great LeBron teams. That that team is still really connected and that, you know, connected more than some teams who won championships. So I thought that was cool. All right, thanks again to Slater. Thanks again to Vince, Goodwill, thanks again to Mark, Devon and Jackson, our producers. Thank you for watching and listening to the Hoop Collective this week. We'll be back next week.