← Brian Windhorst & The Hoop Collective
Brian Windhorst & The Hoop Collective
Trae Young Trade Reaction, End of a Dynasty For Warriors? & Sacramento Finds a Plan
00:57:38
Hoop Collective: Trae Young Trade Reaction, End of a Dynasty For Warriors? & Sacramento Finds a Plan
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- [00:00]
A
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- [00:34]
B
Hello and welcome to the Hoop Collective podcast. We talk about the NBA which we're doing on Thursday afternoon. Joining me after a few weeks where you didn't have to deal with me from Northern California is Anthony Slater.
- [00:46]
C
I'm good. I'm game one of an eight game homestand for me covering the warriors. So I don't gotta leave California until like January 20th. Great timing.
- [00:55]
B
I saw that it's like three straight weeks and it was actually like. Cause they had the one road game a couple days ago in LA which went great for everybody. Steve Kerr ended the game in a great mood.
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C
I didn't see him, I only saw Terry's thoughts.
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B
So yeah, Terry's like Steve Kerr didn't show up to the press conference because he was so mad about the goaltend. Actually I saw the goaltend like it was a, you know, it was a, it was a bad call, but it wasn't like egregious. But Kurt, seen enough?
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C
It came right after a continuation called so late that Steph was like really agitated and Steph even said post game if Steve didn't do that, he might have got ejected. So that was the way Steph would have gotten.
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B
I don't think Steph would have got ejected.
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C
I don't either. But he, you know, he's very defensive.
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B
Steve Ballmer said that it was the intimidating wall, a wall of fans and into a dome unnerved the warriors and they unraveled. But it was the only. I think they play what, 10 out of 11 at home and the road game was in LA.
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C
Yeah, I mean basically late January or you know, New Year's Eve. They played in Charlotte and then they didn't leave California. Don't leave California till January 20th.
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B
Yeah. So an important stretch for the warriors to make some hay. Joining us from Detroit is Vince Goodwill. What's up, Vince?
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D
What's going on, Wendy? No, no big stories about coaches getting thrown out of games or anything crazy like that. I just, I did see the Knicks get punked a couple nights ago in Detroit by the Pistons. That was an eye opener to say the least.
- [02:27]
B
Yeah, the Pistons won in Cleveland last Sunday and then slammed the Knicks on Monday without two starters. And I gotta tell you, the I said this earlier on the pod, so I don't want to repeat it. But I'm just telling you the way the Cavs performed in that game on Sunday was as if any if you want to believe that the Cavs are just going to be fine once they get healthy, I encourage you to go watch that game because that was the best they'd been playing in a while and they had a advantage personnel wise and the Pistons just took it took it from them on their court. All right, we'll get into all that later on. But it was a trade. I don't know if you guys heard about it. I after what happened last year, I don't want to assume anything about the trade deadline season. Maybe Bontem has been saying he thinks this could end up being the biggest trade that happens the whole deadline season. As soon as Bontem said it, I knew that it wouldn't be. Having said that, like I'm not sure that we're going to see many guys with $40 million contracts get moved. Maybe we will, but I don't know. So it's significant on that regard that Trae Young gets traded. And I want to say it seemed like it came together quickly because Shams reported a couple of days ago that Trey was open to a trade. The truth is that this has been process has been going on for weeks, if not months. And as soon as the summer happened where Trey did not get extended, it became clear that while it wasn't a certainty going to happen, it became clear that Trae Young was probably not going to remain in Atlanta past this season and his agents at CAA started looking for places for him to go and the Hawks started looking for places where he could go. And naturally if you're Trey Young and you're a year away from needing a contract, you're going to want to go to a place that wants to sign you. And naturally, if you're the Hawks, you're going to want a trade situation that satisfies you. And so I agree with what Shams said that Washington was his preferred destination, but it was his preferred destination because it was pretty much the only place that would offer the kind of the package that Atlanta wanted, which frankly was short money. Even though Kisper's got a few years on his contract, it's, you know, mid level ish contract and they didn't have to use any draft capital. And I know that some people reacted the other day when we were talking on here about maybe needing to attach draft capital to a trade, but because of Trae Young's contract that he's owed 50 million next year and because that we're in a league right now that punishes small guards. Like there were teams out there, obviously the Wizards were not one of them. But there were teams out there that guys like they saw Trey as somebody that you had to incentivize to take. I mean it's not all 29 other teams, but there were teams that saw, you know. You think I might align with what I'm saying, Vince, at all, Brian?
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C
When it was. Yeah, no you're not. When it was kind of getting closer, were you wondering if there were going to be any picks and if there were, which way they were going to be going? So.
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B
Yeah, so I mean, you know, not to be this type of guy, but what do you want me to say? Like we knew that Trey was getting traded when Vince? Like Saturday, Sunday. Like we knew the deal was going down. Like, you know, if you were an insider in the league, you knew the deal was going down. The only question was is there going to be draft capital in the deal and is the draft capital, you know, going to be significant or not? And there wasn't. Although I will tell you and guys, I. People listening to the pod know I have a connection to Corey Kispert. Number one, he's a good golfer. Number two, he sent my son an autograph jersey a year or so ago because I used him to dominate my son when he, when my son forced me were playing with the Wizards on 2K because he wanted to beat me. He plays with the Warriors, Slater and he won't. He doesn't want to up. He doesn't want us to get a new game or update the rosters because he likes having Clay and Steph because all he does, all he wants to do is shoot threes. He's a new age kid. He doesn't want Jimmy Butler on there shooting mid range shots. He wants Clay to shoot threes. Anyway, I like Corey Kispert, but I'm just going to say that the Wizards wanted to get off of that contract. And while I don't think, I mean, do you think it's a bad contract, Vince? Like I don't.
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C
I mean he's no even level, right?
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B
Yeah.
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D
13 a year. That's, that's a mid level, that's a trade exception type of contract in today's league.
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C
I'll tell you something Brian, it's somewhat irrelevant to this Moment. But Corey Hbert, almost a Warrior. Warriors were interested in him during the Jonathan Kaminga Moses Moody draft. He would have been. He was an option at the Moody pick and had fans in the organization, including high up top.
- [07:14]
B
All right, well, I will just say to. In lieu of. In lieu of the Hawks sending a draft pick to Washington, they took on the Kispert money, which wasn't viewed as a toxic contract, but Washington getting off of that money, which would give them a little bit more cap flexibility because obviously they're using a bunch of cap space by taking on Trey. That was sort of the. I don't like to try not to offend people. It was a sweetener. The other thing that I think is fascinating, I talked to a guy in the league today and, you know, the stats are very out there, you know, whether you want to say they're 2 and 8 or 1 and 9, because, you know, he didn't finish one game, whatever. But the Hawks have a winning record when Trey doesn't play. And when he does play, they're, you know, they have a. They know they have a 100 winning percentage or 200 winning.
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C
It's a defensive rating thing, isn't it? It's just. It's just craters. They're trying to build this, you know, rangy, young, disruptive transition team that you can't really pick on anybody, which, you know, we might get to the Kings later as a reason the Kings weren't that interested, weren't interested in Trey Young, is because that's the type of team that Scott Perry wants to build. So that. That's the problem. This defense.
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B
Yeah. So the Hawks, like Trey, had a knee injury. He's had. He had a pretty significant sprained knee back in November. He missed six or seven weeks or whatever it was, and they brought him back. You know, I'm not saying he's 100%, but they cleared him to play. He wasn't playing him back to back, but they cleared him to play. Then he has a thigh contusion, which I think he was day to day for, but I think the Hawks clearly benefited by him not playing. The Hawks don't have their draft pick this year, so the Hawks were incentivized. I'm trying not to offend anybody because I like Trey. He's been very good to me over the years. I'm not trying to be offensive.
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D
Do you want me to say it? Okay, look, Wendy, he's viewed as a negative asset throughout the league despite his talent, despite the numbers. I talked to someone pretty Close to the deal, the night before, I was under the impression that there was going to be some draft compensation attached to it. And after the deal went down, I just texted Sean. I was like, hey, just be on the lookout. Cause sometimes there's always the main trade and then there's like these little trickles that come out later. And I said, hey, just be on the lookout. There could be some draft compensation. He said, there's none. And I was like, I was stunned. Like this to me, when the almost goes back to the Sean Marks way that he rebuilt the Brooklyn Nets the first time in the aftermath of the Garnett Pierce, the trade, the draft picks that wound up turning into Jason Tatum and Jaylen Brown and all those guys where he wound up trading for a player on a bad deal, but getting a draft pick, a low level first round draft pick to go with it. It looked like you were trading for the player, but in essence you were trading for the pick. So when this came up, I, I swore, I swore that Washington was like, all right, we're going to take on the player, the big name, but we're going to get some draft compensation. And the fact that they didn't, that says a lot about who wasn't willing to give up anything for Trey Young. Like, preferred destination is one thing, only destination might be more applicable.
- [10:34]
B
Okay, so you got, I appreciate that. So you got one team that basically wants to trade him sort of as soon as possible because when he plays, they don't win. Okay, the team that acquired him in Washington, guys, I don't think they're going to play him. And they're going to probably got to.
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D
Hold on to their draft pick this year because it's top eight protective with the, with the Knicks.
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B
That's right. So they don't control their pick totally. It's top eight protected. They've won five out of seven games. They've moved up like two or three spots in the standings or moved down, whatever you want to say. And they're not going to play him, I don't think. And you know, this is going to be prickly because I'm sure they didn't like this getting out there. I don't think they're going to play him, but they're not going to play him because they think if he plays, they're going to win too many games. So I was like, okay, so let me get this straight. I was talking to this guy today, I was like, let me get this straight. So one team doesn't want to play him because they think because they don't have their pick and they think if they play him that they're going to lose more. And then the exact same player, the other team thinks that if he does play that they're going to win too many games because they have to worry about their pick. I go, what are we doing here? And the guy goes, welcome to life in our current lottery system. It also indicates the way two different organizations view Trae Young. And you know, one team decided not to extend him last year. The Hawks, they could have extended him, they didn't. And the other team is ready to, you know, give him the promise of more money before he plays a game for them.
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C
It's also about their rosters. Right. We're talking about the replacement level players where the Hawks are saying this is the five man unit we want on the floor that doesn't include Trae Young and it's ready to win. And, and the Wizards, you know, who is going to be playing the minutes that Trey Young's not playing for Washington. I mean we're talking 19, 20, 21 year olds, inefficient, trying to learn the league. And that's the other part of it. Sure is if he doesn't play that much, it's about maybe losing, but also it's about development. Although I would say you mentioned it earlier, I want to get Trey Young in there, like get some better point guard play, get Alex Star some pick and roll, you know, opportunities like I can't imagine. I don't necessarily think it's that healthy for, you know, them to just not see Trey Young once before next season.
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B
Well, I don't know if that's, I don't know how many games gonna, I'm just telling you, like I think that's the plan right now. Now maybe the plan changes. Okay. It certainly happens a lot in the NBA. And again, he does have a knee injury. Like it's not, and it's not, not true. But he was cleared to return seven.
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C
Now he's 27.
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B
Yeah, he's 27.
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C
27. It's January 8th. If you're healthy, motivated, I would assume by what is gone down and what your, the league just said your value was. I mean, I got to think he's going to want to come in and, and, and light up Capital One a little bit.
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D
Here's the thing. He's, he's not totally good stats, bad team player. Like that's, that, that's by and large the book on him. But he has played in his career winning Basketball just has to be in a very specialized situation. Not saying that the Wizards are it, but I, I do think it would be advantageous for him and them to play just to see what you have. And secondarily, you said it earlier, Wendy, CJ McCullum has had some games this year where, hey, man, 50 ball. You got to get you up out of here, like legit. That's a, that's another part of it. Cj, you're playing too well. We got it. You have to go. So there's that. There is the element of Trey Young wanting to prove himself. And here's the other part of this, and I was talking to another guy who's close to it. This is in some way an affirmation of Trey Young in relation to John Morant, in relation to Lamelo ball. Because if you have all three of those guys and that's the guy that they picked, then as opposed to saying Trey Young is this negative asset as a whole, you've got three all star level ball players and we're saying this is the winningest ballplayer out of the three. Which I actually agree with if I'm rating lamelo and Trey and ja.
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C
Yeah. You know, my favorite moment coming out of COVID was I remember when Trey Young had that series in the Garden. I remember it felt like the first time fans were back in. I remember watching that series and it was like, whoa, people are like high fiving courtside in those Knicks games. And yeah, I mean, he's had some.
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B
Like pretty talking about when he rolled the dice.
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C
Yeah, that was. I remember one celebration.
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D
That was something else. That was something else.
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C
I think that might have been the next.
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D
He had a game winner in the Garden during the playoffs, like where he beat.
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B
Well, they accepted the playoffs. Yes.
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C
They upset the Knicks.
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D
Yeah.
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C
Coming out of COVID Okay. So, yeah, he's had, you know, John Moran's had some playoff moments too, but he's never got to a conference final.
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B
His last seven games as a Wizard. CJ McCollum, 5 and 2, averaged 20 points, shot 52% from the field, 39% on 3, 89% from the line, four rebounds, four assists.
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D
Yeah, he gotta go.
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C
5 and 2 is the most shocking part of that.
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B
And they traded him and they didn't play. You know, they took him out of the lineup last night against Philly.
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C
Wasn't it for like the same injury as Trey Young? It was like quad or something.
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B
Yeah, I mean, what, what do I know? I'm not. I can't say what his quad is.
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C
But can I briefly mention that. That, you know, there's some front office dynamics at play here, too. Travis Schlank, right, You know, the guy that drafted Trey Young in Atlanta is. Is part of Washington's front office. And then Will Dawkins, you know, you mentioned earlier, you know, kind of Chris Paul, right, Going to the Thunder rehab and his value, trading him. This is what the Thunder did. It's probably one of the more forgotten parts of their rebuild because everybody talks about, obviously, the Shay, you know, Paul George trade, but they rehabbed bigger contracts and then traded them out for picks later, which was not only Chris Paul, it was Al Horford. Remember, he was on the Thunder. Kemble Walker.
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D
They sent Al Horford home.
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B
They sent Al Horford home.
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C
They, like, glow about Al Horford's time there still.
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B
Well.
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C
By the way, this year about Al Horford, and he was like one of the greatest pros that's ever walked through these doors. Basically.
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B
I'm not taking anything. Like, I think the Wizards probably should do that. This is what the Toronto Raptors just did last year. They traded for Brandon Ingram at the trade deadline. They gave him. They promised him a contract. I think in that case, he signed the contract and said, you know, use a contract. And then they didn't play him the rest of the year because they were tanking for their pick. Now, it didn't work out. They won too many games. And then they. All these teams from behind them jumped them and ended up with the ninth.
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C
Pick and got a really good rookie, by the way.
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B
Yeah, but they didn't get. They didn't get. They didn't get Cooper Flag, which is, I think, what they, you know, they didn't get Cooper Flag or BJH coming in.
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C
A team better than them in the standings got Cooper Flag.
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B
That's. Well, that's a whole. Again, this is the lottery system.
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C
I know a team I saw win a play in game. I got Cooper flagged.
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B
Yes. This is the system that we live in.
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D
Are you ragging on the lottery system, Anthony?
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B
No, no, no. I'm just saying.
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D
No, I'm saying Slater. Slater sounded like he was ragging on the lottery system.
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B
He hasn't. He hasn't dealt with lottery teams in his whole career. Like, he doesn't know what that is.
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C
I literally just wrote a story about the Sacramento Kings and spent like, you know, a week around them. I've. I've dealt with some lottery teams. I also covered a team that went 15 and 50, got the second overall pick and selected James Wiseman covered that deep, too.
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B
That's true. You did. Okay, so, look, I just. I'm. I don't think we're going to be able to evaluate this trade until the contracts come in is what I'm saying, because I don't think we're going to see Trey Young play that much. I will just say in the case of Brandon Ingram, even though I think that injury, I mean, again, the Raptors could come out with affidavits and tell me that that's not true. And they could say, look at the MRI or whatever. When they traded for Brandon Ingram, he was already injured and was not playing Trey Young. I mean, I guess he's missed the last few games, but Trae Young was back from the knee injury, so I just think it'll be interesting to see how they handle that. But I don't. I don't. You know, guys, they. It is absolutely unacceptable for the Wizards not to get their pick this year, and they very badly need as high of a pick as possible. And so they absolutely should continue tanking as much as they can. Like that is the correct thing to do. I'm just interested to see how this plays out, and I'm really interested to see how much money they're going to give Trey when this contract will be negotiated. Allegedly.
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D
More Hoop Collective podcast after this.
- [19:05]
A
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- [19:35]
D
Hi there.
- [19:36]
B
Surprise.
- [19:37]
D
30 for 30 presents. Booyah. Can I get a witness from the congregation? You can't stop authenticity. Booyah. Stuart was exactly like you saw him on camera. Off camera.
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C
He dialed it up 10%.
- [19:51]
D
Can you imagine the impact of young black boys and girls looking at that going, I like feel feel seen.
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C
He changed the culture.
- [19:58]
D
He changed sports stream. Booyah. Presented by Modelo right now on the ESPN app.
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B
All right, Slater, you've had an interesting. We'll talk about the King's piece that you did in a minute. You've had an interesting couple of weeks on the warriors beat and I don't almost. Because we haven't talked to you for a few weeks, I almost don't know where to start. We've kind of been saving warrior stuff to come Back, but I almost don't know where to start. I'll let you start.
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C
Let's start with Draymond.
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B
Okay.
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C
To me, Steph Curry and Jimmy Butler's futures, in my opinion, seem very secure with the Warriors. And while Draymond Green, you know, I would very heavily predict he remains here past the trade deadline to be, you know, considering the trades that could or couldn't be made in some of the building blocks needed. And his play recently compared to the other to, you know, mega stars on the team is a little bit more in question. And then obviously you mix in, you know, some of the ejections, the storming off the bench, the stuff with Steve Kerr, which I know you. You Talked about with McMahon and Bontemps, he has had a little bit of a roller coaster that I think has settled a bit, partly because typically with Draymond, it's a little bit of like a. A boiling over, an explosion and then a resettling. And I think that. I know as. I mean, they've said it. They said it last night. His focus level has been really good in the last week or so, and his, you know, dealings with. With teammates and coaches and all that has gotten into a good place. I thought it was interesting last night. You know, there was a lot of talk yesterday because Steve Kerr had gotten injected, right. We talked about in the Clippers game and said that his mother was very upset with him. So Nick Fidel asked a question to Draymond about, you know, what's his mother been mad at him. And Draymond just whips his phone out and starts reading recent text messages by his mom, who is a legendary figure, back to the dynasty days. Just killing him for. For getting ejected and his recent play and all that. And, and said that one of the texts was we need to have a heart to heart. And he's like, I'm still. I left that on red. I haven't replied to that because he wanted to stack up a few games before, you know, having this heart to heart and to the point of like, he is trying right now to, it seems like, you know, get his season back on track, but also that, that, that re. Secures his place within this Warrior situation as franchise wide, they decide front office ownership which direction they're going in the next month. We all know it's a, it's. It's such a big month for everybody across the league to assess their situations, but obviously the warriors are prime among that.
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B
I think it's been interesting. In addition, just the. To the Draymond Stuff that's been happening, you know, chapters 804 and 805 and the Draymond Annals. The Kerr has been like, sort of. And I know that he's always, you know, pretty honest, as honest as you're going to see in a head coach. He's been like, very, very blunt.
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D
He's been on edge. I was going to say, it seems like Wendy, more on edge than usual.
- [23:08]
C
Right? Yeah. I mean, he's.
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B
It's his last.
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C
He's on the last year of his deal. He's. He publicly announced prior to the season that we'll see afterwards. There's a freedom to. To the way he's operating. There's a finality in the way he's talking in a lot of ways. And I think this is him making sure he's painting the story how he believes it should be painted on his way out the door. And I'm not saying he's out the door for sure. After this year, I think if they storm up to the, you know, whatever seed and have a decent playoff run, I think it's very possible he's back. But he's very clearly and transparently, as he continues to do, laid out the idea that maybe it's it. And if it is it, you don't have to wait for the documentary to hear his honest thoughts on how this is all going down, because he is going to tell you into a microphone how it's going down.
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B
Well, I just like, he was like, you know, we're a fading dynasty, which is. It's true. Like, you know, I'm, you know, middle aged guy in my 40s. Like, you know, I mean, it's like, it's true. It hurts to say, but, you know, you know, I'm. I got gray hair coming in. You know, it's true. They are a fading dynasty. And then like I think was the other day, I think you wrote about it, I think you or you tweeted about it where, you know, Draymond was talking about how Steve met with him, was like, hey, we can't play the way we played a couple years ago. Like, the league has changed. Like, you play this way, like we're going to lose.
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C
Yeah, that was last night when I was talking about this increased focus level. I think there's been a lot of, you know, attention about Draymond's ejections or the storming off the bench. Obviously that's the stuff that, that interests fans, but really internally, that they've just been saying, stop turning it over. Like he's been turning it over like crazy. And they apparently had this meeting where Steve, as you said, he, he laid it out and said we're not as good as we used to. So these turnovers, you know, can't be as, as common. Number one, less margin for error. But two, what I thought was interesting, he said the league is different and these young up tempo team feast off those live ball turnovers. And it has killed him in a bunch of games. I can remember the game in Portland, Steph Curry scores 48. They lose the game because there was a ton of turnovers. Like Toronto the other day. You got, y' all watch that game where they just collapsed late. It was just a wave of turnovers. So yes, he, you know, but this is. Steve's gonna go out the way he wants to go out. He's always been a great talker and he's probably being even more transparent than ever. But also like Steve Kerr is the number one TV free agent if he wants to be. He could jump back into coaching if he wants. Although he says, you know, he's not leaving Steph for another job. He could also go chill in San Diego. Brian. I mean, I know you remember we were there this summer. He has a decent little setup. If he just wants to kind of, you know.
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B
Yeah.
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C
Fade away into the background, come back onto tv. If he wants politics. I'm not saying he's going to, but if he wanted to, I know a lot of people in the state of California that would be interested in him getting mixed into that. So there's a, to me, there's an empowerment and a freedom to him right now. And I think that's part of why he did not want to sign a contract extension.
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B
And do you think this is a good development for the warriors in whole or.
- [26:11]
C
Depends on who you ask. I think, I think the realism is good and at times I think can settle people down to be like, hey, you know, yes, they have a now, now, now, let's try to win the fifth title in the Curry era. But I think part of what he's saying is like, also needs to be a little bit of a celebration on this, on this run out the door. There needs to be a little bit of acknowledgment of the accomplishment, accomplishments, but also the acknowledgment of reality. And again, this is the conversation we've had there also needs to. He doesn't want it, everybody to end like Clay did or going back to the last dance, which we've talked about on this Podcast. It doesn't need to be sour and bad feelings and burnt out and all that. And I think, I think that is fueling some of this. And to your point, like have some of his public comments about Jonathan Kaminga, for example, been helpful in the Kaminga valuation and trade market and relationship with the franchise over the last two years? No. He gets himself in trouble with some of his honesty, but also his owners emailing fans and that's coming out on Reddit and Draymond's having his own. Draymond has podcasts where he's delivering takes on his own team, but he's also delivering takes on the NFL. This is the warriors. They just spout content and deal with the aftermath.
- [27:27]
B
Yeah. By the way, that email, like is what, is what Joe Lake obset of that email, like egregious. Like he was talking about, you know what, what do you say about Kerr?
- [27:36]
C
It was coaches desires regarding players. Was the line that everybody's like, you know, we know the player he's talking about. So it wasn't. But is Steve's. You mentioned it. Are Steve's analysis recently on the team incorrect?
- [27:53]
B
No. No. Yeah.
- [27:54]
C
They talk. I enjoy it. Let me say as somebody who covers the team now for over a decade, like, I enjoy the honesty.
- [28:00]
B
No, I listen, I think Draymond's. I, I, I, I don't like his behavior on the court. When he loses his, when he loses his temper, loses his cool. Like, I absolutely don't like that. But Draymond is such a value add to the league, you know, like the league is a better place because Draymond has been in it. You know, I just don't want him to choke people. I don't want him to punch teammates. But, you know, I mean, Steph Curry is one of the greatest gifts the league's ever had. Steve Curry's had one of the most amazing careers of any player or coach. Like his, his playing career is among the most remarkable playing careers of any role player in the history of the league. People get offended when you say that Robert Horry was a role player, but he was. But like Robert Horry and Steve Kerr, like find me role players that had more amazing. I mean, like, you know, Steve Kerr got to play with. Got to play and win with Jordan got to play and win with, you.
- [28:52]
C
Know, Duncan, you know, he's had a charmed existence. You know, got to also Team USA gold medal.
- [29:00]
B
Yeah. I mean, got to learn under Phil Jackson, got to learn under Greg Popovich, got to coach Steph Curry. Right. You know, wins multiple gold medals. Also, his father was assassinated, and he had a horrible, misguided back surgery that caused debilitating pain for years and has changed his whole life. So, like, you know, his story is one of the most remarkable. I mean, like, he, you know, a movie on Steve Kerr's life, a documentary on Steve Kerr's life would be amazing. And it's still going on. So. Yeah. You telling me that the. The. The folks involved with the warriors aren't like, what, Wonderfully additive to the league? Like, I mean, heck, yeah.
- [29:36]
C
And I think the point you're making is kind of, in some, In a roundabout way, the point that Steve's making, which is like, you know, this is a famous, you know, legendary run. And I think he just wants bigger picture, you know, thoughts about them and. And reaction to them more than just the day to day, you know, angst. Because they're 19 and 18, then they're 20 and 18, then they lost three in a row. You know, that type of stuff.
- [30:01]
D
There's a. There's a line, a defined line between resignation and still being competitive. And I think he's trying to toe the line of the resignation and the reality of where this team is while also still trying to be fair to Stephen Curry, Jimmy Butler and Draymond Green when Draymond is on. The crazy thing, guys, is things never end well. There isn't a dynasty that has existed in the NBA where it ended cleanly, where everybody had great feelings toward each other, and it ended and it was bookended in such a storybook way. It always ends ugly. Like it's just period. And this one just feels like a long kiss goodbye. This, to me, from the comfortable distance to me, this feels like Steve Kerr's last year in Golden State, because I can't see him doing all of this again next year. And this is exhausting. If you are Steve Kerr.
- [30:56]
C
If they make a playoff run, I think he comes back. But I mean, it's fair. It's very fair to think that that's possible. Number one. Number two, the. Why it feels so elongated and long and drawn out at this point is because the number one star, the sun in their solar system, as they like to call him, Steph Curry, is aging unbelievably to a point that he. You can sit there and go, yeah, y' all are kind of still wasting an all NBA first or second team guard season by Steph Curry, where everybody else is, like, aging in a more normal career way. Like, it does feel like they're wasting still championship Level Steph Curry, because he just is still a championship level.
- [31:33]
B
Steph Curry, you know, I thought was interesting, kind of cool. Just on the whole Steph timeline. Was it like two weeks ago or whatever? It was 10 days ago where he went to Davidson. They. When they were in Charlotte, he went to a Davidson game and they named the exit off. I don't know if it's 75, 7 or 85. I'm not sure which one.
- [31:52]
C
Exit 30. I know that that's what.
- [31:53]
B
That's what I'm saying. Like, Davidson is off exit 30. Like, they call it the Steph Curry exit, but they should just leave. They should just put them like The warriors number 30 jersey on there. How amazing how that was just so cool that it's exit 30. Like, and it wasn't like it used to be exit 207 and they renamed it exit 30. It was just always exit 30.
- [32:11]
C
Yeah.
- [32:12]
B
Anyway, Slater, you also wrote this week a story about the Sacramento Kings and their situation, which is not great. I think they're about 8 and 25 or something like that.
- [32:25]
C
8 and 29.
- [32:26]
B
Oh, no.
- [32:27]
C
Facing the warriors on Friday night, actually in San Francisco. And by the way, next week, Knicks at Kings. Mike Brown back in Sacramento. That'll be an interesting game.
- [32:36]
B
What do you think? The, the. The reception will be positive, don't you think?
- [32:40]
C
Yeah, for sure. He represents the failed era that I wrote about this year. And, and that's, you know, I think there's this outside perception right now as people look at their salary books and their record and some of the misfit veterans on their roster and go like, there's no plan here. Why isn't there a plan here when the reality is, like, there's an obvious plan here. It's a deep rebuild that Scott Perry's just taken over. But the story of why the situation is like it is is because of how the last couple years went. And again, Mike represents that because of the sloppy firing of last year was one of the many moves as go from the beam team, the 48 win three seed, to the 46 win team that was a nine seed, that suddenly, because there was a few moves that Monty McNair, who was executive of the year, made that didn't work out. VC Ron A D kind of yanks the steering wheel back a bit and panics into some moves which include DeRozan, which include the firing of Mike Brown, you know, what, five, six months after giving him a big extension, which, you know, and done in a way that alienates dear Fox. And then you know, they, they rush into a de' Aaron Fox trade and go get Zach Levine, mainly because that was of Vivek. You know, he adored the way Levine played. And then the front office is fired and then they have to reset the franchise this summer and they hand the keys over to Scott Perry in a way. And Vivek, because of the way it went, you know, from all I've heard, is allowed Scott Perry. The autonomy early on for the rebuild is delivering, you know, a, a patient Runway here for Scott. But, you know, if people want to know what the plan is, the most important asset in the whole organization is the first round pick this year. I mean, right now they're a bottom three team in the league. They would have a 52% chance at a top four pick. It's a really nice top of the draft. I've heard they like some of the guys up there. I mean, I think every team does. Keegan Murray, who he gave an extension to, like those are the two most important things in the organization right now. The veterans are just contracts either to be eaten or to be spit out for expirings. If they can get a picture, he's not going to attach a first to a contract unless that also comes back with like a young guy again. They're in on Kaminga. To what degree? We'll find out in the next month. They've liked him since the summer Scott Perry went out to Miami when he was a restrictive free agent, built up a relationship with him. I think it's important to note Jonathan Kaminga, 6 foot 7 wing, rangy. Keegan Murray, 6 foot 9 shooter wing. Some of the guys in the top of the draft, big wings, they want to play fast paced. They want to, you know, become a defensive team. We will see long term if it's built in a correct way. But what I'm saying right now, and when you're around the franchise right now, there is a lot more of a calmness about the situation and a willingness to, to let this thing breathe for a while. Whereas the last two years all I felt was panic, panic, panic. We got to make moves to win now because that's what they got, a little taste of the playoffs and they went too strong after it and now they have to throttle back and they're in the throttle back mode.
- [35:36]
B
So do they admit that they're in a rebuild?
- [35:38]
C
Scott Perry says I'm not a big labeler. I mean, in the. I asked him this in the story that's there, he said he's not a labeler so they won't say the term rebuild, but he says, you know, he knows it's a, it's a heavy lift is the term he used to. He says him and VC are willing to take some short term pain for long term gain. We've got to get younger was a quote within it. So without saying the term rebuild. Yeah, I mean, and, and anyone who talks to you about rival executives, about their, their, you know, trade deadline plans or long term plans, like they're operating as a team that understands where they are and understands it's going to take pain to get where they need to go. Again, Monty McNair had a Runway, but it, it stopped after a little while. So I think it's very fair to speculate. Wonder how patient they'll ultimately be as an ownership group. But at least as of this moment, yeah, they're, they, they seem ready for a rebuild because what's really the other choice right now?
- [36:36]
B
Well, I agree with that, but you know, I would have said that a year ago. And they traded for Zach Levine.
- [36:40]
C
That was when they were still chasing. They were a playing team last year. They hosted a playing team. I told you I saw the Cooper flag about to get Mavericks lose to them. But they, they've realized now they're not, they're not chasing the playing right now.
- [36:56]
B
Right. The problem is, is that, I mean, it's bad luck that Sabonis has been injured for most of the year. That's, that's bad luck. But you know, they owe Zach Levine $50 million next year. He's got a player option which I assume he'll be picking up. They owe Malik Monk $20 million next year. They've been trying to trade him for a long time.
- [37:15]
C
He has a player option too. He's, he's still three years out and that's been tougher for them. DeMar DeRozan has one more year, but there's only 10 million guaranteed next year. Yeah, they're, they're difficult contracts, but honestly, like this is not a team that is intent really. You know, again, they won't say it this bluntly, but they're not really intent on competing for playoff spot the next, this season. Next season. So if they have to eat those contracts, they can just eat them.
- [37:39]
B
Yeah, I just, you know, like they signed 37 year old Russell Westbrook. They signed like 33 year old Dennis Schroeder.
- [37:46]
C
I can tell you why they did that because they want to change the attitude of the franchise. They, they want it to be tougher. It, you Know, say what you want. And the lead of my story is Scott Perry taking Doug Christie and BJ Armstrong to Pittsburgh Steelers camp for four days, sleeping in the dorms in Pennsylvania because he wants to build this grit, toughness, like, you know, Brand, he's friends with, with Mike Tomlin. And that's why they brought in Russell Westbrook. They didn't bring in Russell Westbrook because it's like, hey, help us get the eight seed this year. It's, hey, come in and, like, yell at some people if you have to. Doug Christie talks about him being angry after losses and liking that type of stuff. People can roll their eyes all they want, but that's why they made those moves.
- [38:24]
B
Yeah, I'm just. That's why I ask if they know they're in a rebuild. Because I understand the idea that you want to change the, you know, the momentum or the mojo or the mood. But, you know, you bringing in guys in their 30s, you know, that's, you know, that's why I asked that question.
- [38:37]
D
No, I think there's something to having vets around who, like, there's always. I'm sure you've been like this, Wendy. I've had instances where I've covered bad teams, and a vet will come to me and tell me this is not the real NBA. The real NBA is something totally different. And I think they kind of need to see, like, Russell Westbrook. If nothing else, he's a worker. If nothing else, he's going to do things beyond the 48 minutes of a game that can show you how to be professional, despite the fact the 48 minutes, he might frustrate you to death. And I think in general, like, just zooming out a little bit, this is a story to some degree on how to handle ownership. Like, you have to be able to have the panache to tell an owner who might have a very big appetite. No, like, we're not there to make whatever moves that we need to make. And I think even starting back to what you were saying before about the trade deadline, a lot of teams are trying to tell the owners, hey, we're not there yet to go into second apron territory because we want to win a championship. Like, I think you're seeing a lot more prudence, and then watch the trade deadline be the craziest, wackiest deadline we've ever seen. But I think to some degree, especially when I look at, like, a team like the Knicks and James Dolan saying the things that he said, like, a lot of these owners have to be calmed down. And I think some of the mechanisms of the system are forcing them to be calmed down because you're like, hey, we can't afford to go into this because this is really punitive for us. And it's forcing these very hard and realistic conversations as opposed to, well, if ex said, let's do this, so we're going to do it. Like, sometimes you got to tell the guy no.
- [40:16]
C
Yeah. And. And Scott has a good relationship with Vivek. And the other thing I would say.
- [40:21]
B
And, you know, he's hired him twice.
- [40:23]
C
Yeah. Yes, he has. You. But the. You mentioned a calmed version of owners with. Just because of the, of the apron system or whatever the reality of the new NBA. I would also say Vivek's probably a humbled version. This is not anything the Kings would, you know, want to, to present out there. But like, he just yanked the steering wheel and it went right off the road. You know, he, he greenlit a lot of moves that pretty quickly turned out to be disastrous in a lot of ways. So you could take two steps back and go, well, that didn't work. You know, maybe it is time to, to, you know, let somebody else have a little, you know, a fuller level of autonomy.
- [41:03]
B
Yeah. But that's up to him for sure again.
- [41:05]
C
Yeah, I think the. I think it's very fair to wonder. Two losing seasons from now, two and a half once. The, the thing about Scott Perry, at some point he's going to have to put his name on some big moves. Right. The biggest thing he's done so far is. Is extend Keegan Murray. We'll see how that ages. Sure, he signed schroeder, but that's three for 45. Not a big deal. The biggest move is going to be the draft pick. The biggest story next season for the Sacramento Kings is going to be how, let's say they get a top four pick. How does AJ DeBonta look? How does Darren Peterson look? How does, you know, Caleb Wilson look? You know, whoever. That'll be the story. And if that looks like a great pick, there'll be some momentum behind that. And, you know, if he does make a Kaminga trade or another, you know, big ticket item trade, how do those moves work? The biggest question will be, where's the patience? If one of the bigger moves doesn't work, if it doesn't seem like it's going in that good of a direction, but we're not there right now, they're just like reeling from the flamethrower of the last two years from an era Their best ERA in two decades, by the way, or best season, I should say, felt like their best momentum. They're restabilizing from that. And I, I actually sense some calmness. You know, as much as people might.
- [42:12]
B
Doubt that, I mean, they still like the beam, right? It's just not.
- [42:15]
C
Yeah, it's been lit eight times this year.
- [42:17]
B
Not even because they only. They do it on.
- [42:19]
C
I made a joke to say I was sitting next to Sam Amick during home play. Kings games when I'm there. And they, they beat the Mavericks their. In their last. It wasn't their last Mavericks game, but their last home win was over Dallas. And they had like three of their rookies light the beam together. And I was like, they're now doing groups of players lighting the beam because they don't know how many times.
- [42:38]
B
They only like the beam when they win at home or do they. Do they light it when they went on the road?
- [42:42]
C
So it actually gets lit in like their postgame show, like shows it getting lit. But there's not like the whole ceremony of.
- [42:48]
B
Right, right. Well, still the beam goes up. Okay. So I was gonna say the Bee's been lit eight times.
- [42:52]
C
Yes.
- [42:53]
B
Technically, they don't have the worst record in the west because even though they have the same number of wins as the Pelicans, they have two fewer losses.
- [42:59]
C
So there you go.
- [43:00]
D
And they have their own draft pick.
- [43:02]
B
Well, that's where they would be ahead of the Pelicans.
- [43:05]
C
Again, the most untouchable asset at the deadline for the Kings is the 2026 draft pick. That's the most important thing in the franchise right now.
- [43:15]
B
And I will say this. Unlike the Pelicans, unlike the Jazz, unlike the Wizards, you know, there's no circumstances around. You know, I will say, speaking of teams at the bottom of their. With their draft picks and obviously this, you know, there's a whole incentive show. Show you me the incentive, I'll show the results type thing. If you look at the teams, you know, because a big story in the back half of this season is going to be tanking because. And I'm almost loathe to talk about it much then and even bring it up now, but it's relevant because of the trade. Trade just happened in. But like if you look at the, the, the situations that involve these teams that are going for these top picks. So Kings are just pure. Their draft pick. They've owned their draft pick the whole time. 2026, they've owned it. Obviously, the Pelicans have traded the rights to their pick The Jazz pick is top eight protected, which is, you know, a factor. Only one win better than the Jazz in the west of the Clippers who've traded their pick. You look at the east, the Wizards pick is top eight protected, which I don't think that they're going to finish outside the top eight, but if they mess around and finish sixth last year, two teams outside the top eight moved into the top four. And, you know, that was a problem. You know, had. Had Philly not gotten lucky and gotten a top four pick, they might have been knocked out of the top eight or top six. Was there the top sixers. That was mcnu.
- [44:45]
C
And that seventh pick would have gone to the Oklahoma City Thunder. If you can't imagine, more Hoop Collective podcast after this.
- [44:59]
B
So anyway, the Wizards have their pick tied up. The Jazz have their pick tied up. The, the Pelicans pick is gone. The Pacers and the Nets, who, you know, the Pacers have the worst record in the league. They've got six wins. The Nets, who actually were playing better, they have the third worst record in the East. They've got 11 wins. Both of them traded their first round picks this year and then reacquired them, reacquired their own picks. And so, like, like, you want to, you know, you want to know why there's, like, stuff that's, that's crazy is like there's been so much draft pick trades in the last decade that you get into this kind of stuff where teams have to do weird things, and that's one of the reasons why they're looking at lottery reform. I don't know, Vince, if there's a.
- [45:48]
D
I got a solution. I got a solution for lottery reform. And I suggested this to our good buddy Tim Frank maybe like 10 years ago, maybe not 10 years, like eight years ago.
- [45:58]
B
Tim Frank, was he vice president of the NBA?
- [46:02]
D
Yeah. Yeah. One of our favorite. One of our favorite people.
- [46:06]
B
He's been there forever. He's an old man now.
- [46:08]
D
Yeah, yeah, yeah. He used to call me when, when David Stern was pissed at me. Like, that's how far back it goes.
- [46:13]
C
Steelers fan, right?
- [46:14]
B
Well, he's a Notre Dame guy.
- [46:15]
D
Notre Dame. Big Notre Dame guy. Timmy. This is what I told. I told Timmy this years ago. Set the lottery odds at mid season, at the 40, 41 game mark. You set the lottery odds so that way, even if there's going to be, quote, unquote, tanking to the bottom, like there's going to be less variance there in those final 10 games, because in theory, you're still trying to figure out what players you have and evaluating it. And it's going to be harder to sort of just trade to race to the bottom. And that way you can legitimately play out the last 40, 42 games of the season without having to manipulate something like, well, what happens if, you know, a team makes a run after the lottery odds will replace that team with the next team and you keep the order as such. And that way the integrity of it to my, you know, I'm sure there's going to be unintended consequences and everything else.
- [47:07]
C
I'll tell you the unintended consequences. Those like two weeks before, like the 41 game date would probably get weird. Like those would be the two weeks.
- [47:15]
B
Like instead of guys sitting out the last half of the season will sit out the first half.
- [47:19]
D
Well, according to people who watch the NBA or don't watch the NBA, nobody cares about the NBA until the super bowl ends anyway. So who cares? Like that's what you hear from the, the quote unquote casuals who complain and about all this stuff all the time.
- [47:33]
C
I'd also be curious how that would impact the deadline where you would have teams that could say, hey, you know, we'll trade you our pick this year. It's, we may be rising up the standings, but we already got the fourth best lottery odds and we could throw that into a deal or something.
- [47:46]
B
Yeah, I, I don't know what the. I'm not going to sit here and say I know what the answer is, but the decision to not play Brandon Ingram last year was probably a good decision by the Raptors. And whatever the Wizards do with Trey Young this year, prioritizing losing is a good decision for the Wizards. And the problem you get into here is when good decisions are to not play your star players, when those are really good decisions, that's when you have a challenge. And you know the whole point of the lottery is, is to deincentivize. Tanking. The whole genesis of the concept in itself is to deincentivize it.
- [48:24]
D
Are you suggesting getting rid of the draft?
- [48:28]
B
No. I'm not one of those radical people that wants to legalize everything because look what's happening in college. Vince, I'm going to tell you, the transfer portal, it's not that it turns me off. I'm happy that the players are getting paid. I want them to get paid, trust me. But it makes it impossible to be, to follow as a fan.
- [48:51]
D
There's no connective tissue. It's hard.
- [48:53]
C
I mean like it's Very hard. I'm gonna tune into Ole Miss Miami tonight. Brian, I know you might not. That might hurt a little bit.
- [48:59]
B
I had tickets lined up for the game, man.
- [49:01]
C
Yeah, so it ain't hurting.
- [49:03]
D
I mean, there's, there's, there's something to being able to stick it out. Like, I have no problem with these dudes making money, their employees and everything else. And you don't hear the term student athlete. You ain't heard that in the past four or five years.
- [49:14]
B
You got that right.
- [49:15]
D
There is something to being able to sort of, like, sometimes you make a choice and stick it out or. You know what I mean? Like, being able to work through a situation. Now, if your coach leaves, maybe you can go there and not have any sort of like, penalty or whatever, like that sort of thing. You're connected more to the coach than the school. But it does feel a bit unseemly.
- [49:36]
C
Vinnie. I just think Brian is a little stung because I believe I saw Jeremiah Smith is entering the transfer portal. Did I see that correct?
- [49:44]
B
That would be news to me.
- [49:45]
C
Maybe.
- [49:46]
B
You know what they, I mean, they had a bunch of wide receivers enter it, but if that happened, that would be news to me.
- [49:53]
C
Okay.
- [49:54]
D
I wouldn't be sad if that happened.
- [49:57]
B
But that's the thing. Like, you know, if he wants to, you know, anybody wants to go on the transfer portal, that's fine. It's just, it's very tough to follow the sport when you have no idea who your team is year to year. I mean, granted, you're going to have. Some guys are always going to go, like, in your coaches leave. I don't, I don't really want to get in that conversation, but I, you.
- [50:14]
C
Know, I'm just going to watch Oklahoma State football next year because I went to Oklahoma State and I'm. I don't know, like, even in past years, I'm not sure I had a deep connection to, like, you know, players necessarily. It's just I'm like, who they got this year? Oh, wow, this running back school. And I'm going to find that out in, in week one. Although I will say this is just for Tim McMahon. We basically are just North Texas next season. So I'll take that. We just took the coach and all their players.
- [50:37]
B
But that's what I'm saying, like, you know, the concept of, I'll just find out what my, what my team has when the first game comes up. Like, that's no way to be a fan.
- [50:47]
D
It doesn't feel good. It just. We just have to recalibrate Well, I think, I don't mind it. At some point this thing is going to burst. Like something's going to happen and the system isn't going to like, it's not built to be sustainable one way or the other. You know what I mean? One year renewable deal, you know, scholarships and everything else. That wasn't always fair to the players. You know, having those guys having to sit a year if they wanted to transfer, that wasn't fair. And that while getting the, you know, hundred dollar handshakes from the car dealership guys, whatever, it was like it's anarchy now. And there has to be some level of regulation. The problem is who do you trust to regulate this? Because I don't trust any of these people.
- [51:25]
B
Yeah, there's a whole problem. I thought that the, that I don't remember the gentleman's name. Who was the billionaire who was funding Texas Tech, but I thought he said the quiet part out loud when he gave that interview. I think it was the 60 minutes where he was just like, yeah, we saw an opportunity where we could just buy a bunch of great players. Like Texas Tech hasn't been super elite in football. We've had, you know, some good years. Like this is a wild west and we got the money, let's do it.
- [51:46]
C
Well, they went and just bought the Cincinnati quarterback.
- [51:49]
B
Well, it's, you know, you know, but like Jackson's saying that the, that everybody needs contracts. Well, contracts don't mean anything. Coaches have contracts. Big Lane Kiffin wasn't under contract with Ole Miss. Like now there's a.
- [51:59]
D
The quarterback smarmiest dude. But I can't get over this whole whitewashing of Lane.
- [52:04]
C
You know, I mean, you talk about the word anarchy.
- [52:09]
D
Sorry, sorry, guys. Sorry, sorry.
- [52:11]
C
College football. Anarchy is like the brand of college football.
- [52:14]
B
Well, and to get back to where we started here, I don't want that. I want the draft. I want.
- [52:20]
D
You want order.
- [52:21]
B
Yeah. And I want, you know, teams that are at the bottom to have a chance to get better. You know, like the NBA for better or worse is socialistic. The weak teams get the, get the, the best picks, you know, once they trade them away. And the teams that, you know, I saw some numbers, I think sportic, there's all this drama with the RSNs with the local TV deals and like, you know, the company that owns like 13 of them are like it's on the verge of bankruptcy a second time. And so they had all the. And a lot of these teams had to take pay cuts just to keep their RSN Solvent. And so I saw. And I'm assuming Sportico's numbers are right. Sportico is one of the leaders in the field, guys. Sportico reported the Memphis Grizzlies get $11.7 million a year from their local TV deal. The Lakers get approaching 200 million. So how would the Memphis Grizzlies ever compete in the same comp. And by the way, they just beat the Lakers. Or maybe the Lakers beat them.
- [53:19]
D
No, the Lakers beat them twice in a while.
- [53:20]
B
Yeah, it was. They beat dispersed.
- [53:22]
C
Grizzlies have had better seasons than the Lakers at times recently.
- [53:25]
B
Right. I'm just saying, like, it's literally 20 to $1. Okay. The only way the Memphis Grizzlies can. Can exist in the league is if there's sharing. Like, it's a socialistic system. I want the Grizzlies to exist. I don't want there to be five teams. I don't want there to be two teams in New York, two teams in LA and a team in Chicago. And everybody just. I don't want that. I want there to be teams in all these places.
- [53:51]
D
So Chicago doesn't know that it's a big city before you go anywhere.
- [53:54]
B
Well, their owners don't spend like it's a big city. No.
- [53:57]
D
I think the NBA's in such a weird position because if you're a great team, you can't elevate to really become dynastic, you know, to become sort of unbeatable. But if you're bad, you can't get bad enough to guarantee that the next thing that you're going to have is the Patrick Ewing in the frozen Envelope or the LeBron James in 2003. Like, it's. So it's. They're trying to become a league of 7, 9, 9 7, so to speak, NFL style. And I don't know if fans actually relate to that. You talk about the Memphis Grizzlies, I would just say that's bad real estate. Right. I think that's generally what it is. And you can't really help that because there's only so many NBA markets as we're going to bring in. At least. At least, I think one more NBA market over the next couple of years. I just think there's unintended consequences and they're trying to serve all masters, so to speak. And you can't do that. And they haven't yet decided that they need to pick a lane.
- [54:55]
B
Yeah, well, you want us to talk about a brawl, you should see the brawl that's going to happen if there's expansion and two teams come into the west. Because I don't think there's going to be an expansion in the east and one team has to move from the east, from the west to the east and those teams on the Mississippi, you.
- [55:15]
C
Know, it's probably going to be like a Minnesota, New Orleans.
- [55:17]
D
Minnesota, Minnesota, Minnesota, New Orleans, Memphis. I think Minnesota goes East and I think. I don't think they bring in two. I think they bring in one. I think they bring in one team. I think we are.
- [55:29]
B
I think you're unbalanced. I don't know what's going to happen, but I'm just going to say if there's a team that's going to move east, it's going to be a brawl. That's what I'm telling you. Like, I promise you, whatever case that you can make for Minnesota, I promise you the front offices in Memphis and New Orleans will have a equally strong case that they will present to the board of governors. But all right, we've gone far afield here. Thank you very much to have Vincent and Slater back on the pod. Thank you to Jackson and Devon and Tucker, special appearance by Tucker supporting us today, who I've known for a decade here at Omaha. And thank you so much for watching and listening to the Hoop Collective this week. We'll talk to you next week.
- [56:15]
D
Sam.