VanVleet Injury To Ruin Finals Chances For Rockets? + Explosive NBA Offseason Survey Reaction

Summary

Podcast Summary:

Brian Windhorst & The Hoop Collective
Episode: VanVleet Injury To Ruin Finals Chances For Rockets? + Explosive NBA Offseason Survey Reaction
Date: September 23, 2025
Host: Brian Windhorst ("Wendy") with Tim MacMahon ("McMahon") and Tim Bontemps ("Bon Temps")

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Overview

This episode of ESPN's Hoop Collective centers on the devastating injury to Houston Rockets guard Fred VanVleet—a blow that could upend their championship aspirations. After covering that breaking news, the crew reacts to the explosive annual NBA executive offseason survey conducted by Bontemps, unpacking which teams are viewed as winners, losers, and key trends shaping the league landscape. The show is rich in insider anecdotes, reflective commentary, and sharp banter about the future of the NBA and its stars.

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Key Discussion Points & Insights

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1. Referee Summit & NBA Initiatives (00:37–12:27)

- Referee Event and Analytics

• Wendy shares insights from a recent NBA referee event, mentioning conversations with league operations brass Byron Spruell and innovation head Evan Wash.
• Evan Wash’s team researched how often NBA players forgo end-of-clock "heaves"—over 500 instances last season; roughly 3% of these wild shots go in. This means 15–20 “cool and exciting” plays were missed, highlighting a point of possible improvement in league entertainment.
  • Wendy (03:09): "Over 500 instances where a player could have potentially put up a shot last season and did not... 15 to 20 really cool plays a year are lost."
• The event highlighted an officiating emphasis: cracking down on defenders slapping shooters' hands (“high five fouls”) after jump shots. Expect more shooting fouls early in the season.
  • Wendy (08:18): "There will be...an uptick in fouls on jump shooters early in the season."

- Monty McCutchen Storytime & Ref Anecdotes

• McMahon shares a story about former referee–and head of officials–Monty McCutchen quilting on the road as a stress reliever, underscoring the personalities behind officiating.
  • McMahon (11:00): "When he was a referee, he would travel...with a quilt that he quilted and made..."

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2. Breaking News: Fred VanVleet’s Season-Ending Injury (13:11–31:51)

- Rockets’ Devastating Blow

• McMahon breaks the story: Rockets’ point guard Fred VanVleet tore his ACL in the offseason, likely missing the full 2025–26 campaign. The injury is considered catastrophic for both player and team hopes.
  • McMahon (13:13): "Fred VanVliet has torn his ACL in the offseason...the franchise point guard...their pillar."
• The discussion highlights VanVleet’s underdog path, leadership, and cultural impact in Houston—well beyond his box score stats.
  • Wendy (15:30): "To get a young team to move along, you need someone to show them the way...no better [than Fred]."

- Immediate Implications for Houston

• Houston is viewed as a legit Western Conference contender, but has no other proven “pure” point guard on the roster.
• Focus shifts to young prospects: Amen Thompson—a raw, high-ceiling athlete compared to early Ben Simmons (without baggage)—is expected to take the reins.
  • Bon Temps (18:05): "Best comp for Amen Thompson is early [Ben] Simmons—without the BS."
  • Wendy (19:03): "I think [this] is going to have Amen Thompson make the All-Star team, possibly."
• Other options: Reed Shepherd (raw, G League standout), Aaron Holiday (veteran, backup mentality)—but the consensus is Amen Thompson must shoulder the role if the Rockets want to chase a title.

- Philosophical Debate on Young Guards Leading Contenders

• McMahon is skeptical: "You don't win in the NBA with young guards."
• Wendy and Bon Temps counter that the only way for Houston to maximize their ceiling now is by empowering Thompson and letting their young core sink or swim.
  • Wendy (22:10): "If you're talking about the Rockets' highest ceiling, it's giving Amen Thompson the ball today..."
• The hosts agree the loss of VanVleet dramatically lowers the Rockets' “floor” (disaster potential), but could also expedite Thompson’s and Shepherd’s development into stardom—a sink-or-swim scenario.
  • Bon Temps (27:08): "It's sink or swim for their young potential stars...losing VanVleet lowers their floor a lot."

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3. Bontemps’ Annual NBA Offseason Executive Survey (34:08–83:12)

- Methodology

• Bontemps polled 20 coaches, scouts, and executives—16 questions on summer moves & league outlook.

- Best Player in the NBA Right Now (35:22–39:24)

• Nikola Jokic is nearly unanimous: 19 of 20 votes (1 for Luka Doncic), even after SGA’s MVP and spotless postseason.
  • Bon Temps (37:26): "Not 19–1, but that the 1 vote wasn't [for] Shea [is surprising]..."
  • Wendy (38:36): "I don't think people see it as a cavernous gap. It's just, pick one: It's Jokic."

- Best and Worst Offseasons (39:24–47:07)

• Best Offseason Winners:
  • Atlanta Hawks (7 votes): Added Alexander-Walker, made the Porzingis trade, and leveraged other teams' slippage.
  • Denver Nuggets (4), Houston Rockets (3), Thunder (2), Magic (2), Clippers/Lakers (1 each).
• Worst Offseason “Winner”:
  • Pelicans (9, most votes): Universally panned for their pick swap deal with Atlanta (losing an unprotected pick for Dereck Queen). The “process” is criticized as shortsighted regardless of Queen's potential.
  • Other poorly-reviewed moves: Jordan Poole trade, Suns' handling of Bradley Beal (including waiving/stretching his contract), Trail Blazers’ Jrue Holiday deal.

- Best/Worst Moves (47:44–54:48)

• Best Move: Kevin Durant to Houston (11 votes), Magic’s acquisition of Desmond Bane (2).
• Worst Move: Pelicans pick trade (11 votes); tied for second—Beal waive-and-stretch and Trail Blazers adding Jrue Holiday.

- Where Will LeBron Be in 2026–27? (59:59–67:36)

• Most say Lakers (7), followed by “Retired” (6), Cavaliers (4), Warriors (2), Mavericks (1), Heat (1).
  • Notable discussion on rumors LeBron could help launch a separate European-flavored league (based on a meeting with agent Misko Raznatovic).

- Conference & Finals Picks (67:58–73:11)

• Western Conference/Title: Overwhelming consensus on the Thunder (18 of 20 votes for both conference and finals), with a distant second to Denver.
• Eastern Conference: Wide open; Cavs (9), Knicks (7), plus Hawks, Bucks, Magic get votes.
  • Sixers—forgotten but noted as a "puncher's chance" team if healthy.
  • NBA landscape is seen as wide open in the East, but Thunder-dominated in the West.

- State of American Players (76:13–81:13)

• Best American player right now: Steph Curry (11 votes), much to the alarm of the hosts—it signals a generational lag behind international stars.
• Best in 5 years: Anthony Edwards (11 votes), Cooper Flagg (5).

- Olympics & Team USA Outlook (81:13–end)

• Musings on a weaker American pipeline for global competitions; worry about Team USA's 2028 Olympic incentive/direction, as they won't need to qualify as hosts.
• The need for size and the importance of Chet Holmgren, with uncertainty over who will be “the guy” in five years.

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Memorable Quotes & Moments

• On VanVleet’s impact in Houston:
  • Wendy (15:30): "You'll never find anybody say a bad word about [Fred]. Huge bummer to see that news today, particularly with how excited we've been about where the Rockets are at."
• On Amen Thompson:
  • Bon Temps (18:05): "Best comp for [him] is early [Ben] Simmons, without the BS..."
  • Wendy (19:03): "I think this injury is going to make Amen Thompson an All-Star."
• On the state of American stars:
  • Wendy (77:27): "The fact that a 37-year-old is getting [votes for] best American player speaks to Steph's longevity—and the next cohort not quite being there yet."
• On the NBA’s Eastern Conference race:
  • Wendy (70:55): "The east is going to be completely wide open...the only acceptable outcome [in NY] will be if the Knicks make the Finals."
• On the Thunder's "cheap" championship window:
  • McMahon (74:19): "This may be the hardest year to get [the Thunder] of what could be this window, as they are young and cheap..."

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Timestamps of Important Segments

• Referees & Analytics: 00:37–12:27
• VanVleet Injury & Rockets Fallout: 13:11–31:51
• Bontemps Survey Segment Starts: 34:08
  • Best player/current hierarchy: 35:22
  • Best/worst offseason moves: 39:24–47:07
  • Free agency & Suns critique: 47:07–54:48
  • Best/worst transactions review: 57:58–59:59
  • LeBron’s 2026–27 destination poll: 59:59–67:36
  • Thunder, Championship & East picks: 67:58–73:11
  • American player future (Steph/Ant/Flagg): 76:13–81:13
  • US Olympic long-term outlook: 81:13–end

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Overall Tone & Takeaways

The episode is conversational, often irreverent, with hosts riffing off each other’s experience and league relationships. The tone is alternately analytical and playful, moving deftly between hard NBA news, insider gossip, and light-hearted riffs.

Key Takeaways:

• Fred VanVleet’s injury is an existential test for Houston, putting all chips on their youth development.
• The Thunder are viewed as the NBA's next potential dynasty, while the Western Conference feels otherwise wide open (“Thunder or bust”).
• The league’s American-born star power appears in a transitional phase, with non-U.S. players dominating the MVP conversation and younger Americans still ascending.
• The annual executive survey suggests executives remain divided on who “won” the offseason, but unified in animosity toward perceived front office blunders (notably, the Pelicans’ trade).
• Bigger league trends—including finances, internationalization, and generational turnover—are omnipresent.

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This summary captures the main threads, turning points, and textures of the episode, providing a thorough, time-coded guide for listeners and non-listeners alike.

Transcript

[Wendy]

You were scrolling down memory lane when.

[Bon Temps]

You accidentally tapped your ex's post from years ago. Better delete the whole app.

[Wendy]

When scrolling's a bust, tacos are a must.

[McMahon]

Passo the old El Paso.

[Bon Temps]

Pick up an old El Paso stand and stuff Taco kit today.

[McMahon]

When modern life gets rough, grab the timeless taste you love.

[Bon Temps]

Passo the old El Paso.

[McMahon]

Hello and welcome to Collective Podcast. We talk about the NBA, what you're doing on Monday evening. Joining us from New York City, Tim Montes.

[Wendy]

I just want to say to everybody, Remember the other day when McMahon was talking tough about his team in the league that we're both in?

[Bon Temps]

Oh, I just would like to say.

[Wendy]

That we're both in again going into the next week. And my team pretty heavily outscored us.

[McMahon]

This week, the Guillotine League. Who was your leading point scorer?

[Wendy]

Mine was Caleb Williams. We picked up.

[McMahon]

That was a good guy to have this week. That was a good guy.

[Wendy]

I had a great week. I also picked up Mark Williams or Mark Andrews is having. Mark Williams is not playing football. Mark Andrews is having a great game tonight. McMahon's who's McGran's top guy? Bijan Robinson and J.K. dobbins would be man's top guys this week. We both advanced again. So another week of content.

[McMahon]

All right. Anyway, we talked about the NBA.

[Bon Temps]

I didn't even get an official introduction.

[McMahon]

Oh, that's right. Wait, who are you? And joining us from Dallas, Texas, bad McMahon. Banned from introductions.

[Bon Temps]

Howdy, partners. I would like to say bond temps outscoring me this week for the first time in fantasy football. Reminds me of an old Texas line. The sun shines on a dog's ass every once in a while. And let me tell you this, in.

[Wendy]

This case, I do in this league is not be last. So far, we've both not been last three weeks in a row.

[Bon Temps]

In this case, the sun shining was Caleb Williams. The dog's ass is the Cowboys defense. So good luck getting that out of Caleb Williams again.

[Wendy]

Hey, listen, I picked him up this week for a. For a reason, by the way. So today I was at this event the NBA had. The referees were in town.

[Bon Temps]

If the refs were in town, you know, Bon Temps is there. Smooch, smooch, smooching.

[Wendy]

Well, listen, they.

[McMahon]

They invited me to a tape measure.

[Wendy]

To get in the door that would have been had to be allowed in the building, which he would not have been. Several refs mentioned the pod to me. It was good to see people, but including our pals Tyler Ford and James Capers. But little fellas, at this event today, I got an answer, at least a partial answer to a question we asked recently on the pod, which was when McMahon had all of his information about the heaves.

[Bon Temps]

Oh, yeah.

[Wendy]

He wondered how many such instances may have happened in the past where players passed up the attempt to heave the ball at the end of the clock. And Evan Wash, who.

[Bon Temps]

Oh, yes.

[Wendy]

Byron Spruell called the a. Our master of innovation, which I told him he should get a business card.

[McMahon]

Bon temps. Always assumes everybody knows everything.

[Wendy]

I was about to give his title, but you can give his title.

[McMahon]

Byron Spruell is like number three or four in the NBA League office, Head.

[Wendy]

Of operations, the president of basketball operations.

[McMahon]

And Evan Wash is the head of innovation. Apparently he was the guru during the COVID Czar.

[Wendy]

He's.

[Bon Temps]

Well, dad isn't. Isn't like the NBA cup in large part his baby. And I mean, he's kind of like the chief nerd.

[Wendy]

Evan. Yes. Evan Stratton Evans. Evan's title is head of NBA basketball strategy and analytics.

[McMahon]

Byron Spruell is from Cleveland. Evan Wash was from the Ivy League. Those are the two things I need to point out.

[Bon Temps]

I need a new title that's fancy like that.

[Wendy]

Go on. But they. They ran the numbers as group, he had been trying. I think he said it was over a decade his group had been studying this. There were over 500 instances where a player could have potentially put up a shot last season and did not. Wow. And as he said, roughly 3% of these heaves go in. So it doesn't necessarily correlate well. Right. Like in theory, 15 to 20 really cool and exciting plays a year were not happening. That, you know, and like he said, will we get all 15 or 20 of those? We'll see. But even if you get some of them, that's a pretty big win.

[Bon Temps]

Even the close calls are exciting. One of the most exciting plays of last season was when Joker.

[Wendy]

Yeah, the open play.

[Bon Temps]

Yeah.3 seconds left and the other team shooting a free throw. And he just kind of puts his hand up to Peyton Watson, showing him where he wants the inbounds pass. And it was like a half volleyball spike, half punch thing.

[McMahon]

Well, it was like a water polo move.

[Wendy]

Isn't.

[McMahon]

I mean.

[Wendy]

Yeah.

[Bon Temps]

It damn near went in.

[McMahon]

I know. And if it had gone in, he would have just shrugged his shoulders and lumped.

[Bon Temps]

Exactly. Exactly.

[Wendy]

So I. I thought for. I thought that would be an interesting information to pass along.

[McMahon]

Can I. Story time.

[Bon Temps]

Okay, then. I got an idea.

[McMahon]

Go ahead with your idea first.

[Bon Temps]

Well, the idea is we're going to take the old head of innovation out and get them to cough up the biggest offenders on the heave no list.

[McMahon]

You know, I'm sure they have that data.

[Bon Temps]

I'm sure they, they do. They're probably protecting it, but I'm sure they do. If we get a few drinks in them, we might be able to weasel out of them.

[McMahon]

So without saying the name of the hotel, Bontemps describe the quality of the hotel that this was held at. Stars.

[Wendy]

I mean, I don't know. It was a standard. It was a. It was a full service hotel that of the brand that all of us stay at a lot. So I mean I could just say the hotel, it's perfectly fine hotel. It's Brooklyn Bridge Marriott in Brooklyn.

[Bon Temps]

Oh, I stayed there. It's not like it's nice.

[Wendy]

It's a perfectly fine hotel.

[McMahon]

You're gonna just put them on blast where they're staying.

[Wendy]

They all left today.

[Bon Temps]

It's gone.

[McMahon]

All right. Back when I.

[Wendy]

What are they going to do? What are they going to do? Descend to get. To descend on the Brooklyn Bridge Marriott's New York City. There's a lot of things going on here.

[Bon Temps]

To get Tyler Ford's autograph, to reach down with their pieces of paper and let them reach up and grab and sign it.

[McMahon]

When I was a kid in the NBA, they used to hold the refs meeting at this incredibly sad. And I won't say the name of it because it's still there. In fact, I stayed there earlier this year.

[Wendy]

I also attended a referee thing at that hotel. And let's just say this is a hell of a step up from that place.

[McMahon]

Exactly. It was at an incredibly sad airport hotel in Newark.

[Bon Temps]

Oh, I've stayed there and I actually.

[McMahon]

Did we actually I did a podcast there in July. I stayed there for just one night on my way out of the country.

[Bon Temps]

And on your way to one of them fancy golf.

[McMahon]

It is not getting better. But like here's the thing. You can, you can like look at the. The. Where the NBA has, you know, felt the money come in in the last like 15 years. A couple different places. Obviously the players salaries. No kidding. The size of the staffs. Right. How big the staffs are, you know, now they've got to have risers behind the bench. There's so many staffs. The planes, the airplanes. When I first started covering the league, I was covering the Cavs. The plane that the Cavs used couldn't make it from Cleveland to the West Coast. If they were flying to LA or Seattle, rip they'd have to stop in like Oklahoma city or Fargo, North Dakota to get more gas. This was not 1987, this was like 2005. Now they fly planes that if they had regular passengers be able to put in 200 people on them. I'm not kidding. And the referees get to come into the boroughs and stay at a 4 star hotel. I'll give it 4 stars having stayed there before.

[Wendy]

It's a nice hotel.

[McMahon]

Not at a two star hotel at an airport like they did. But I will say this, they weren't distracted by the, by anything else. They could focus on the work back in those days.

[Wendy]

I mean the other thing, the other thing I can tell you from this thing today is that one of the points emphasis here is going to be to crack down on players taking advantage of the high five rule and hitting free throw shooters pretty or free three jump shooters. Well, yeah, three point shooters, but jump shooters in general pretty hard in the, in the hands. So there will be I think an uptick in fouls on jump shooters early in the season as that rule goes into effect.

[Bon Temps]

Was there any discussion about my suggestion that after a dunk a player should be able to do whatever the hell he wants for three seconds as long as his pants stay on to get rid of the taunting tees?

[Wendy]

No. Okay, exactly.

[Bon Temps]

You next year I got to go to this thing. You are inept.

[McMahon]

We ought to have McMahon go to it and just bring a film crew. Is there any like how many times did you hear the word proximate foul? I had never heard the word proximate in my life until two years ago and now I hear it 700 times a year.

[Wendy]

Well, our friend Monty McCutcheon who does a great job with these things.

[Bon Temps]

Was he all bow tied up?

[Wendy]

No, he was, he was in his usual attire. He was looking great. He, I mean it was a combination on and off the record stuff, but he walked through a whole bunch of different plays and you know, explained a lot of, a lot of different aspects of both how they, how the rest do their jobs and also certain things to watch for in terms of the points emphasis for this year. But I would say for fans the biggest one to pay attention to is going to be that these high five fouls and kind of excessive contact on them is going to be something that's going to be called a lot. And so we're in a year, I think probably the first month or two you'll see more fouls on jump shooters, I would guess.

[McMahon]

Story Time.

[Wendy]

All right, sorry.

[Bon Temps]

Here we go.

[McMahon]

All right. It's the off season. When Monty McKay.

[Wendy]

It's not. It's actually not. The off season officially is over by.

[McMahon]

The time media day.

[Wendy]

That will be at media day. That's right.

[McMahon]

For the 76ers.

[Wendy]

The 76ers are on Friday. I will be in Greenberg, New York for the Knickerbockers, including friend of the pod, Mike Brown, speaking nice and early Tuesday morning.

[McMahon]

Boy, are Nick's press conferences gonna have a different vibe.

[Bon Temps]

All right.

[McMahon]

I love Tibs, though. Hope you're doing.

[Wendy]

We do. We do love. We do love tips.

[McMahon]

Tibs is low key. One of the funniest guys in the NBA. You just got to pay attention. All right.

[Wendy]

Monty McCutchen, or talk to him away from a microphone.

[McMahon]

Monty McCutcheon, who's the head of NBA referees, former NBA referee. People know him for his bow ties, like Ernie Johnson. He wears bow ties. He wears. He wears very colorful suits and has for many years. But here's a story about Monty McCutcheon. When he was a referee, he would travel the entire season with a quilt that he quilted and made. Over the course of the season, he would knit a quilt that he would give to his children and other people. And I want to say it was like a king size quilt by the end of the season. Now, first off, he did it like, as a stress reliever, you know, And I have to believe that he's the only referee who ever had a traveling quilt. And what I find unbelievable about this is that Monty would be the best dressed referee in the league, or at least one of them. He would wear things like ankle length orange trench coats. Okay. Like as well.

[Bon Temps]

Best. I don't know. Most creative. Yes.

[McMahon]

Okay, fine. I'm not looking to start any fights. And he would bring a quilt that would grow to like a king size quilt that he would sew together over the course of the season. And I think he traveled with a.

[Bon Temps]

Carry on that's impressive.

[McMahon]

And there was some sort of sorcery that he did to do it. All right, Sorry. Thanks for hanging.

[Wendy]

Also was part of the single best officiated game in the history of the league.

[Bon Temps]

As we talked about prior, only bond tips would have a ranking of the best officiated game.

[Wendy]

I mean, it's. There's a list of. It's a list of 1. Including the guy who just went in the hall of Fame last month. Danny Crawford, game seven, 2016.

[Bon Temps]

I was surprised he didn't have Cuban handles. Induction. Danny Crawford.

[Wendy]

As I've said before that was the most intense as I've said before games and Brian will Probably agree. Game 7 in 2016 Warriors Cavs are the most intense game I've ever attended and Danny Crawford, Monty McCutcheon and Duke Callahan, three very long time veteran referees all did that game and there was not a single complaint about the officiating before, during or after it. So that's all you need to know about the job they did.

[McMahon]

This is where you get all your ref stuff out there at the hoop Collective. I just want you to know okay Rockets had some very unfortunate news on Monday. Talk about a wretched way to begin the week to begin the season. Fred Van Vliet has torn his ACL in the off season. They're franchise point guard who has been a pillar in their turnaround as an organization on the floor and through leadership and who they just signed to a two year $50 million deal this summer the second year of it being a player option and contract ramifications of that are interesting but not that is not important today.

[Bon Temps]

Right.

[McMahon]

So one you feel terrible for Fred. Fred is a guy who is become synonymous with betting on himself. Undrafted player who won himself won himself a spot in the league and has repeatedly basically said oh you don't want to pay me? Well then I'm just going to play out my contract and I'm going to get taken care of and has done it repeatedly and champion in Toronto.

[Wendy]

That's a guy just named head of the just named head of the union too.

[McMahon]

Just named head of the union and will be either in the league office running a team or coaching a team when his career is over or maybe.

[Bon Temps]

If he wants to he would actually be media.

[Wendy]

Fred is Fred's an A triple plus dude.

[Bon Temps]

Yeah I I nominated him. I think he might end up as a finalist for the Magic I did too award. Yeah great too great guy to deal with.

[McMahon]

Magic Johnson Award goes to the guy who's best with the media.

[Bon Temps]

Right?

[Wendy]

Yeah.

[Bon Temps]

And and you know you can't look at Fred's stats in Houston and feel his impact. You talk about like a pillar in their turnaround. His professionalism was desperately needed for that franchise. His leadership, his toughness, his nastiness, his intelligence. I think more than running the offense it's going to be his toughness and his intelligence that and his leadership that they'll miss because I mean he absolutely is like the perfect on floor extension of IME Odoka.

[Wendy]

He's just a winner. I mean you go back to when he was at Wichita State. He was part of that incredible Wichita State team that got to the Final Four. You know, he. You know, he had the great run in Toronto. Like you said, McMahon. He goes to the Rockets immediately. The franchise starts to turn around. You know, it's. We've talked a lot about how young the Rockets are and how bright their future is, but to get a young team to move along, you need to have somebody to show them how to do it, and there's probably no better. It's why I thought it was such a big deal when Fred got named as the president of the union, because for a guy like that who came in as an undrafted free agent, became a max player, has been an all star. Like, there are very few guys in the league who you could say could relate to literally every player in the league. And Fred Van Vliet has been able to do that through the work he's put in. And you'll never find anybody say a bad word about them. And, yeah, it was a. It was a huge bummer to see that news today, particularly with how excited we've been about where the Rockets are at and the optimism there is around that franchise about what they've got ahead this season.

[Bon Temps]

Ben Taylor, the ref might say a few things about him. Fred's had a few things to say about Ben Taylor over the years, but anyways, we only say nice things about.

[Wendy]

Also saw Ben Taylor today. He came over and said hello.

[Bon Temps]

A swell fella.

[Wendy]

Asked if you were going to be there. And I said there's no way McMahon would be.

[Bon Temps]

Yeah, he's about five, eleven and a.

[McMahon]

Half, by the way, like an incredible stretch of elite point guards in the league with these huge injuries. Yeah, it's been rough from, you know, Halliburton to Kyrie Irving to Dame Lillard. You know, Darius Garland is going to miss a big part of the season. I don't know if you want to qualify Tyler Hero as a point guard. He certainly plays point guard at times for the Heat. He just has foot surgery.

[Wendy]

A lot of injury talk in September.

[McMahon]

Which is never fun, I know. I mean, it's very, very upsetting. So, okay, here's the problem. The Rockets are a contender to win the Western Conference, and the Rockets do not have another, quote, unquote, pure point guard on their roster.

[Bon Temps]

I would say they don't have another proven pure point guard. I do think that their two high lottery picks on their rookie deals have pure point guard potential, and we will find that out one way or another this season.

[McMahon]

Well, describe those players.

[Bon Temps]

Well, Amin Thompson, you know, bondage, like we were talking about in the chat today. I think the best comp for him is early career.

[McMahon]

By the way, Dejante Murray, does he count as a point guard? Sorry, I'm sorry.

[Wendy]

Point guard.

[Bon Temps]

Again, I think the best comp for Min Thompson, who hasn't played a lot of point guard yet, but when he was drafted like was considered a big point guard. I think the best comp for him is early career. Ben Simmons without the bs and I'm not talking about his initials, you know, without the just, you know, issues and diva tendencies. I'll say.

[McMahon]

Or the jump shot.

[Bon Temps]

Well, neither of them have jump shots.

[McMahon]

That's what I'm saying. Doesn't have the jump shot either.

[Wendy]

Well, yeah, I, I think McMahon is totally right on Amend Thompson and I'm, I'm actually going to say something beyond that, which is obviously it's really awful news for both Fred and the Rockets that Fred Van Vliet had this injury and is going to probably miss the season. I think this injury is going to have Amend Thompson make the all star team, possibly because he's going to have the ball in his hands all the time. I think there's. I would be stunned, frankly, if they go into the season with anything other than we're handing the ball to Amend Thompson and he's going to run the team.

[McMahon]

You would surrounded by.

[Wendy]

I would be.

[McMahon]

Let's just go.

[Wendy]

When you look at their.

[Bon Temps]

Let's go through the other options.

[Wendy]

Sure.

[Bon Temps]

The next option is reach.

[McMahon]

Hold on a minute. I'm going to stop, stop, stop, stop. Okay, now go ahead with Reed shepherd first. Go ahead.

[Bon Temps]

Shepherd, who, look, didn't play a whole lot last year when he went down to the G League, put up huge numbers, didn't really crack the Rockets rotation, but they were planning on Reed Shepard playing a significant role this season. That role obviously is now going to have to be more significant. I do think it's not out of the realm of possibility that Reed shepherd will start. I don't know that I think there's three possibilities there. I think what you're just talking about, just let's play big and have Amin Thompson be the point guard and surround him with shooting and size and just smother teams defensively is an option. I think Reed shepherd filling in for Van Vliet and then I think kind of the safe, solid option would be going with Aaron Holiday and saying, hey, you know, just be a professional kind of table setting type of hard defending, you know, poor man's Van Vliet type of guy. And let's not heap too much on the, on the shoulders of these young guys. But the rocket ceiling, obviously Durant gave them a championship ceiling. Their hope of being able to sniff that was always going to be on the shoulders of their young rising stars, Shingoon Thompson. And they, they think Reed shepherd has rising star potential.

[McMahon]

Okay, let me just say something real quick. I don't dispute any of that. You know, IME Udoka, number one. I don't see IME Udoka starting a player at point guard with this alignment who can't defend. That's number one. Number two, if you are serious about and bunches, I'm not disputing what you see as the future for Amen Thompson. Okay? But if you are intending your team to compete to win the Western Conference, you cannot have your point guard rotation be two inexperienced players and particularly inexperienced at the position.

[Wendy]

I don't, I don't really. I think that's kind of a weird take.

[Bon Temps]

I think that there might.

[McMahon]

That's a weird take. That's me being around 23 years.

[Wendy]

Well, listen, Amen Thompson is one of the, I don't know, five most gifted athletes maybe in the league and has immense potential and is a very good ball handler, is a very good passer. Like these are things that have been the case since he came into league.

[McMahon]

Don't you think that.

[Wendy]

I think if you're talking about what is the path to the Rockets having the highest ceiling this season, it's giving Amend Thompson the ball today and saying, hey, you're going to run the team for 32 minutes a night for the next six, eight months. And yeah, there could be some growing pains in November, but by not having Fred Van Vliet there to run the team and it having to be Amend Thompson, because by the way, the Rockets are so close to the apron, they can't go sign another veteran player. I saw these Russell Westbrook memes. Let's set that to the side. For a bunch of reasons, however, they literally cannot sign a veteran free agent.

[McMahon]

That's right.

[Wendy]

Because they're too close to the apron. Aaron Holiday is a fine backup guard. He's on a minimum one year deal. If you're trying to win the west, which I still think the Rockets have a ceiling that they're going to be in the mix to do that. As good as Fred is, as big a loss as it is, I still think they could be in that mix. And it's because of the potential in particular of Amend Thompson. And if I'm the Rockets. No, I think Reed Shepherd's got a high ceiling too. He barely played as a rookie. He struggled at summer league. I think walking in and saying Reed Shepard's going to be our point guard to start the season is putting way too much pressure on him. Whereas hey, if you're his backup, all right, you come and run team 50 minutes a game, you see how it goes. If he struggles, then you can plug Aaron Holiday in. But with the size the Rockets have across the board, you plug a man Thompson at the point you have shooting around them. The Rockets might be the best defensive team in the league with the group they group they have with him doing that the thunderbolt and it gives. Well, you're right. But they're in the mix though. And it also, I think creates an opportunity where you could see Amend Thompson explode into a star level player this season. That taking that pressure away from to give it to Aaron Holiday or even to Reed Shepherd, I just don't think that's a realistic outcome.

[McMahon]

I don't dispute anything you said there. I'm just telling you, you don't win in the NBA with young guards. Well, I just don't.

[Bon Temps]

I would also say if Reed shepherd is starting, the ball can still be in a man Thompson's hands. And if you're putting your best shooting lineup around him, then Reed Shepard.

[Wendy]

Yeah, I mean, I would say that it would make a lot more sense for the Rockets to go Amen Thompson, Dorian Finney Smith, Jabari Smith Jr. Kevin Durant and Alparent Shangoon and be big and long and physical everywhere.

[McMahon]

Well, actions over words, right? The Rockets must feel like those guys can do that because they didn't add another point guard to their roster. Well, they didn't.

[Bon Temps]

They planned on having van fleet play 30 plus minutes.

[McMahon]

Well, I know, but they, but they, but they obviously clearly didn't. They felt that they had enough ball handling on this team.

[Bon Temps]

Yeah, because they do. They really like these young guys. They were planning on putting a little bit more on their plate and now they're going to have to put a whole lot more. I but like in terms of going out and getting a vet now forget like the fact that financially they have handcuffs on. They can't do it. To me, that's something. Evaluate Thompson and Shepard.

[McMahon]

I'm not saying you make the trade tomorrow and bring the guy into training camp. I'm just telling you, I'm not. I can't predict what. Maybe Amen Thompson will be an all star this year. I'm just telling you I've been around and I've seen young guards, especially guys who are playing point guard at that level for the first time where you're like, okay, you're going to be the starting point guard. Like they get dinged up and you know, amen. Thompson turns the ball over.

[Wendy]

Thunder just won a title with a guard in his third year. Playing next to Shay, who's pretty damn good. That's all I'll say. I know the Thunder are a unique outlier.

[McMahon]

Are you trying a lot of reasons that he's, you know, there he is not their lead guard, their legal.

[Wendy]

But he's, but he. No, but he is one of the 15 best players in the league now and exploded in his third year in the league. And like again, to me, if I, if I'm looking at things, I think Amend Thompson is going to be the most improved player in the league this year because he's going to have his stats all jump a lot. He's going to have a ton of opportunity and I know McMahon is very high in Amend Thompson.

[Bon Temps]

Oh, yes.

[Wendy]

Anybody who's watched Amend Thompson play, I.

[McMahon]

Don'T know anybody who's not high.

[Wendy]

That's my point. I think this, like I said, I think if you're, if you're a Rockets fan or if you're the Rockets and you want to see a silver lining in what is a very black cloud of a day, I think it's that this is going to force Houston to do the best long term thing for the Rockets, which is to give the ball to Amend Thompson and let him loose. And I think the results from that are going to be pretty damn good.

[Bon Temps]

It's sink or swim for their young potential stars. And what losing Fred Van Vliet does to Houston is it makes their floor a lot lower. Like, you know, things could go really wrong in Houston this year and they just might not be able to get organized offensively and they might just have a glaring lack of leadership and they might not be nearly as connected on the defensive end and all the kind of the little things that VanVleet does are going to be so obvious in his absence.

[McMahon]

That's a possibility.

[Bon Temps]

But it's also a possibility that, you know, Thompson and or Shepard just make massive leaps and that the Rockets are still a, a realistic threat, you know, come April and May. Now, listen, nobody was going to be considered a favorite over the Thunder regardless. I had the Rockets as the biggest threat and I do think at this point you've got to reassess that. But I don't think you can completely cross them off the list.

[McMahon]

Well, it's an unexpected thing they have to deal with. Sometimes you do see things like this end up helping teams in the long run. Bottom she could prove to be right and if this was a different team with a different set of expectations and look, it's the Rockets window is open.

[Bon Temps]

Yeah.

[McMahon]

It's not like you know, but Kevin Durant is on a one year contract.

[Wendy]

So.

[McMahon]

So to this point you don't trade for Kevin Durant if you're planning on making a big chunk of the season development. That's, that's Kevin Durant's. What would you Stage three or phase three?

[Wendy]

I think. Yeah, I think you're, I think you're twisting things around a little bit. I mean, amen. Thompson is not a, I mean you're acting like Amend. Thompson is a rookie.

[McMahon]

I mean how many minutes does he have playing point guard in the NBA?

[Wendy]

We played a decent number of minutes at point guard last year. I don't know the like firm number but he handled the ball a good amount and they all should be handling the ball a ton.

[Bon Temps]

They do not have the luxury in terms of their half court offense of having the second best point center in the league.

[McMahon]

Well, that's true. I mean that's, that's part of their strategy that the ball will go to Alperin Shengoon to, to operate in half court. And you know, when you have that you don't necessarily need as much of an initiator. And I suspect that they will try to start the season with, with what they've got.

[Wendy]

But I don't really have, they don't really, they don't really have a choice.

[McMahon]

Of course they have a choice.

[Bon Temps]

Of course not much of one.

[Wendy]

I mean they can trade. I think they can trade five players at the moment.

[Bon Temps]

Yeah.

[Wendy]

Well would you like to trade one of the, one of these. Five? Would you like to trade one of these? Don't say they don't have a second trade.

[McMahon]

I mean that's like saying, that's like.

[Bon Temps]

Saying you' start a season with Bond, Tims and me on the podcast.

[Wendy]

I mean, I mean they, they, they like yes, they like in theory they could make a trade in, in reality they can't really make a trade for a couple of months even if they want to until they have more of their roster.

[McMahon]

Well, that's probably the best decision just to see what you have on your roster. I think that's always the best idea for a team, especially the start of the season is to see what you have on your roster.

[Wendy]

I'm just, especially when you have one of the, one of the biggest upside players in the league that you can hand the ball to.

[McMahon]

That's all fine. You can end up being right. I'm just saying I've been around and so is Ime Udoka and I think he tends to, to, to look at things old school.

[Bon Temps]

Listen, there's all, there's a reason right after hiring Adoka, they went out and gave Fred Van Vliet a, that's, you know, a really good player. But you know, one time all star they gave the guy max contract to come to Houston. Yeah, and, and he took a pretty.

[McMahon]

Big pay cut this year. I mean he kind of had to. It was a team option. He was supposed to earn over 40 million this year. He took a team option and took a big pay cut and he obviously could have signed a longer term deal, but he did a one plus one. I'm sure thinking that he would opt out of the contract after another strong season. You know, he's 30, he's going to turn 32 during the year. He is, you know, at the edge of his prime. Historically for players, especially smaller guards, you know, again, historically, it doesn't mean everything. But I'm sure his thought process was, I'm going to have another great year, we're going to have a great year as a team and then I'm going to get, you know, one significant, you know, last big deal. Now I don't know what's going to happen there. You know, now you're looking at sort of a Kyrie situation where you got a guy who's going to be coming off an ACL where you got to wonder what his market is and it's really about what the team wants to give him. So that's another discussion for another day.

[Wendy]

More Hoop Collective podcast after this.

[McMahon]

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[McMahon]

All right, today, Bontemps. On Monday, you had one of your annual traditions come out where you survey the summer a bunch of executives across the league. Not as extensive as the Bond Temps polls, but it's sort of another version of the Bond Temps polls. I'll let you set this up with the number of executives.

[Wendy]

A lot more work to do this than to ask people for right names. Yes, I talked to 20 coaches, scouts and executives across the league, asked him a total of 16 questions, a few about this past summer and a bunch looking ahead to both this year and the next few years. In a couple cases to try to get a sense of both what people thought of how the offseason played out and then what it could mean in terms of how this upcoming season will play out. And again in a couple cases about what things could look like a few years from now.

[McMahon]

All right, well, I want to go over a few of these. You should check this out on ESPN.com I want to go over a few of these that I felt stuck. Stuck out. If you feel like I missed any bontems.

[Wendy]

Sure.

[McMahon]

That were particularly interesting, speak up. Or you McMahon.

[Wendy]

Sounds good.

[McMahon]

To the question of who is the best player in the league right now, I am not surprised that Nikola Jokic won. I am surprised at the vote total. Here are the votes from the Bontemps offseason front office. Well, offseason executive front office.

[Bon Temps]

Really tough acronym. There's. You got to come up.

[McMahon]

Yeah, it doesn't work as well. Nikola Jokic, 19 votes. Luka Doncic, one vote. That's the list for. For the votes for the best player in the league right now.

[Wendy]

I don't. I don't think this is that big of a surprise. Personally, I don't.

[McMahon]

Well, MVP doesn't get a single vote.

[Wendy]

Again, if you had said. If you had said in 2016. Okay, the. The spur. No, 2015, 10 years ago. Right now, who's the best player in the NBA? Okay. The reigning MVP. I know he didn't win Finals MVP, even though he should have. That's another story. LeBron James probably would have been a unanimous pick. Maybe one person would have picked Steph Curry. Right. Jaco Saler is an amazing player. Everybody thinks he's awesome. When I asked later in the survey, I don't know if you're going to bring it up, who the best five players in the league are right now. Everybody said four names immediately. Jokic, Shai, Giannis, and Luka. So he's clearly seen as one of the best players in the league. However, if you ask pretty much anybody around the NBA or around the sport at the moment who is the best player in basketball, they all pretty much say after a moment or less, yeah, Jokic is the best player. That's not any disrespect to Shai. Shea's incredible. But Jokic, I think, is pretty nearly universally seen as the best player. And so, yeah, I'm not shocked that. I mean, I was a little surprised. If somebody said anybody, it was somebody but Shea.

[Bon Temps]

That's what surprised me. Not 19 1, but that the 1 wasn't Shea given, like, dude, Shay just had a quadruple crown of a season.

[McMahon]

He just had arguably one of the greatest seasons in the modern era.

[Bon Temps]

Scoring champ, mvp. Conference Finals mvp. Mvp. Finals mvp.

[Wendy]

Yeah.

[Bon Temps]

And then, like, you punch his stats up there, I can give you him and Jordan.

[McMahon]

Well, you know, those defending champions, they always need something. I could see Sam Presti having this laminated on a giant board to play.

[Wendy]

I mean, in the other guy, the other guy averaged 29, 6, 12, 7, 10.2, 57 shooting from the field and 41% from three. And, and remains this completely unstoppable force. So again, like, yeah, I'm, I wasn't that surprised.

[Bon Temps]

Like, like, okay, Wendy, if they, if you'd have been pulled here, what would you. Would you have said?

[McMahon]

I would have said Jokic, but I would have thought about it for a while, probably, and, and before. But I mean, I'm not surprised.

[Wendy]

I think the better gauge of it, of this question is again, when I ask people to name their five best players, who are the five best players right now? Everybody instantly said four names, right? So the bigger gap, I know 19 to 1 looks big. I know Shea didn't have any votes. I get that. I don't think people see it as a cavernous gap. It's just a binary thing. You have to pick one name. You pick Jokic. Right. I think the much bigger gap is 4 to 5, I think 1 to 4, 1 to 2, I think is pretty small. And I think 1 to 4, cumulatively is very small. And then there's a, at least as of this moment, a very big gap from four to the rest of the field.

[McMahon]

All right. To the question of which team had the best offseason, there were seven different teams that got votes. It's the opposite of who's the best player. Seven teams get votes. I thought they had a very good off season, but I'm a little bit surprised. Winning with seven votes, the Atlanta Hawks, second place, Denver with four, third place, Houston with three. Oklahoma City, who didn't add anyone other than draft picks to their roster, but they resigned. Their top three players got two votes. The Orlando Magic with two votes. The Clippers and Lakers each get one vote. Contempts.

[Bon Temps]

Was the Clippers before the Pablo podcast?

[Wendy]

I mean, they're, I mean, they were basically all before. I mean, a lot of. I shouldn't say a lot of them. There are. Some of them were before the Pablo Pot. Look, the Hawks, I think get. First of all, it was a pretty quiet offseason. Right. There were a couple trades long time ago. The Durant Bain trades back in June. But for the most part it was pretty quiet. Right. And the Hawks arguably signed the best free agents. Change teams. And Alexander Walker, they. They.

[McMahon]

Free agency doesn't exist anymore. Even that wasn't a technical free agent move.

[Wendy]

Sure. But they, they make the big trade for Chris As Porzingis, which is. Was a well regarded move. Right?

[Bon Temps]

Yeah.

[Wendy]

And obviously they make the trade with the Pelicans well, the draft pick. And so when you put all those things together in a quiet off season, not only do they have a good off season, they shoot up the list in the east because of the fact the Celtics and the Pacers fall off the map. Right. And on top of that, when you look at the other competition, it's like, okay, Denver had a really good off season because they got some bench players, which I'm not. I, I, I, I am blown away. I understand. But I'm just saying, like, right. If we're talking about it that way, it's like, yes, like, they gave the best player in the world some extra help. But it's not like they had this incredible off season. But they got four votes. And I think it's fair to think of them that way because it might have got them back up in the same level with the Thunder. And the Rockets got three votes largely because of one move, which is a really good move, but.

[Bon Temps]

Right, one move that addressed the glaring hole on their roster by getting a Hall of Famer who's still scoring at an elite level is going to end up being top. I score all the time pretty good.

[Wendy]

Yeah, for sure. No, I was a great trade. Don't get me wrong. I, I think it's probably, you can make a really good argument. It's the single best move of the offseason, given what they gave up and what they got back. I'm just saying I'm not surprised Atlanta got a decent amount of support because between the combination of the way they sort of were lifted up artificially in the standings by other teams going down and them sort of having moves across the board that were good and stood out, like in an off season where there wasn't a lot of interesting stuff that happened, they were in the middle of a lot of the most interesting stuff. So I wasn't stunned that they got a lot of support.

[McMahon]

All right. Boy, do these folks hate that Pelicans trade. The Derek Queen trade. Boy, do they hate it. I mean, because not only do they have the Hawks at the top here. I know it wasn't just about that draft night trade. It was about Porzingis and Alexander Walker.

[Wendy]

A lot of it was about that trade, though.

[Bon Temps]

Yeah.

[McMahon]

But when it came to which team had the worst off season, the Pelicans relatively ran away with it. They had five more votes than anybody else. There was like nine teams that got.

[Wendy]

Votes, which a lot of people really didn't like. The Jordan pool trade, too. That came up multiple times.

[McMahon]

Okay.

[Wendy]

Several times. I should say okay, both the Jordan Pool trade and obviously the draft night trade which is universally panned.

[McMahon]

Right. Jordan pool trade alt when it was C.J. mcCollum for Jordan Pool. There's some other things in there. But that was essentially the trade. Which team had the worst off season New Orleans Pelicans quote unquote wins and which was the worst move of the off season in a relative route, the Pelicans trading the pick, the unprotected pick to Atlanta for the 26th draft. 11 votes. I'll talk about both of those more in a second. But Bond temps Venom. Venom for the pelicans front office. 15 minutes onto the job for Joe Dumars and Troy Weaver.

[Wendy]

I mean. Yeah, I mean we, we talked about this the other day when you tried to say that Dairy Queen being good could mitigate the trade. Some like the the process on the trade was horrendous and if they may not give up the number one by.

[McMahon]

The way, Derek Queen being good is essentially the bet of the whole trade. If Dairy Queen is good, then again.

[Wendy]

This is what we talked about. Awfully good that this is what we talked about. The, this is what we talked about the other day. Derek Queen being good or not has nothing to do with the process of the trade. The process of the trade was terrible. Well it's objectively terrible.

[Bon Temps]

It's like the giddy for Caruso swap when when the reaction to that deal was how many picks are the Bulls getting or which pick or picks are the Bulls getting? And answer is none. When the general reaction not forget about like media fans when the reaction from other executives within the league is WTF.

[Wendy]

Then if Josh that's that's a perfect comparison. Let's say Josh Giddey becomes a five time all star with the Bulls. Okay. Like that that would be a great outcome for the Bulls. Right? It still wouldn't change the fact that when the Bulls made the trade they should have gotten draft picks in the trade and did not. Doesn't the process of that was terrible?

[Bon Temps]

Wait, I hear some process of this trade. I hear some muffled cries coming from from the Bay Area about Caruso should have been the warriors anyways way before that go on.

[Wendy]

Well it the pro in the process of this trade was bad. Which is why the moment, from the moment it happened people have said how in the world could the Pelicans have done this trade? So we'll see what happens with their Queen. Maybe, maybe he'll be a great player and we'll see if the Hawks actually end up with A very high pick in next year's draft. All I'm going to say is I'd feel pretty good if I was betting on the Pelicans not being very good this season.

[McMahon]

I just want to allow for the fact that what if Derrick Queen is very good?

[Wendy]

That doesn't change. I understand.

[McMahon]

I understand. I got their.

[Wendy]

Queen might be very good. I'm not saying he won't be very good. It just doesn't change the. It doesn't change the trade.

[McMahon]

Again, I've been around long enough to know that not everything happens in the season the way it looks in the summer.

[Wendy]

But that's again, it's not about how good Derek Queen's going to be. You keep making the same point though.

[McMahon]

I knew you making the same point. Let's move on because I have to.

[Wendy]

Keep explaining how trades work.

[McMahon]

Apparently Jordan Pool has $34 million after this year on his contract, whereas CJ McCollum's contract was expiring. Yeah, obviously Jordan Pool is a younger player, but they're the executives are voting with on that one as well.

[Bon Temps]

Well, Jordan second place, very popular player among other executives.

[McMahon]

He's not a very popular player amongst his teammates sometimes.

[Bon Temps]

Wizards. Yeah, right. They watch Wizards games.

[McMahon]

Yeah. All right. Which team had the worst off season after the Pelicans? This one is going to hit hard on the Suns who loved their off season.

[Bon Temps]

Listen, the anti expert off season. Hey, is Steve Nash an expert? He must not be because he got a senior advisor role with the Suns.

[McMahon]

Well, Steve Nash was hired by the Suns was announced on Monday. I talked to. Yes, senior advisor. I talked to Matt Ishbia last Friday as the Suns announced an extension of their local media rights deal. He made a joke. The Suns were the first. I don't want to get into media rights. But the Suns were the first team that had to abandon their regional sports network because it was failing. It was soon to declare bankruptcy, it hadn't folded yet. But they basically just said forget this, we're putting games over the air. Left tens of millions of dollars theoretically guaranteed. I mean if you go to bankruptcy court they wouldn't have got it. But it was a risk and it ended up working out. Their ratings have extremely gone up and now they've gotten a deal to stabilize their income. It. It's the good old days but they've stabilized their income. And anyway Matt said well, I got that one right, got about everything else wrong. So he, he made a joke about himself but then he doubled down the ratings.

[Bon Temps]

If they were actually a decent team.

[McMahon]

He doubled down to me, I didn't write about this, but we were talking and he doubled down on how much he thinks that the pundits. Well, in this case, not just the pundits, but the peers.

[Bon Temps]

Yes.

[McMahon]

Were not impressed with the Suns. I think primarily Bondemps, based on what else you've got in here. They didn't like waving and stretching $100 million of Bradley Beal, amongst other things.

[Wendy]

Yeah, I mean, again, I'd say the process on the Bradley Beal trade from start to finish was horrendous. And that included the fact that they ended up having to wave and stretch them because they made the original sin of taking them with the no trade clause.

[Bon Temps]

Yeah.

[Wendy]

You know, to me it was a catastrophic decision from start to finish.

[Bon Temps]

Yeah, I would say the start was much more catastrophic than the finish. The finish, it was time. Like they couldn't move forward with Bradley Beal. They just couldn't do it.

[Wendy]

No, I know, but that's the. But again, this is, this goes back to the same conversation we just had. Like at the time when they made the trade, it was all, they got him for nothing. There's these pick swaps, second round picks. Bradley feels really good.

[Bon Temps]

You got him for the problem with the contract.

[Wendy]

Well, and again, that's what we talked of, what I talked about, what we talked about in the pot at the time that you take on this guy with this no trade clause. What happens if you want to try to trade him later? That's why teams weren't interested in Bradley Beal at the time. It's why the Suns end up eating this money. And again, the Suns save Matt Ishbia hundreds of millions of dollars. I'm not saying that was a bad thing for him to do. The team isn't going to be good. They shouldn't just lose money for the sake of losing money. As I've also said before, it's all very reminiscent of my time covering the Brooklyn Nets when Mikhail Prokroft came in talking tough about spending all this money and doing all this stuff and then when the team was bad, decided, you know, it's not very fun to have a horrendous team and a team that's also, or I shouldn't even say horrendous, not very good team and also be obscenely expensive and cost me a gazillion dollars. So at least they can get out of doing one of them.

[Bon Temps]

Yeah, they're horrendously disappointing. They were the most disappointing team in the league because they were mediocre after making two massively splashy trades that they kept pennies on the dollar. Well, they paid full boat to let Beal go play for the Clippers and got, I'll say, nickels and dimes on the dollar for Kevin Durant. I mean, the Rockets still have more picks over this, you know, window than more Suns picks. And the Suns have their own, if that tells you anything. But so they went from being this massively disappointing, mediocre team to a much less expensive, kind of pesky, underdog type of team. You know, I. At least they're free on tv. But.

[Wendy]

There was some panning of the Mark Williams trade too, which we'll see where that ultimately lands.

[Bon Temps]

So that, that trade, I don't necessarily mind that trade, I understand that trade, but it's the fact that how did you get that pick that you gave up to get Mark Williams? It was part of the three late pick package that you got from the Jazz to give up. The Remind was a 2031 reminder.

[McMahon]

They traded one unprotected first round pick for three. Three protected first round picks.

[Bon Temps]

Yeah. That were basically guaranteed to be late because they're like Cleveland, Minnesota, those kind of picks.

[McMahon]

Right. So on the list of worst moves of the off season, number one was the Pelicans trading that pick. Number two was a tie. Bradley Beal being waived, which the sentiment is expressed elsewhere. Tied for number two. The Trailblazers trading for Drew Holiday, which is a trade that, you know, the Celtics were sort of in salary reduction mode and that happened around July 1st. There was a lot of, a lot of stuff. The oh, okay, Monday draft week. The headline of the off season for the Blazers was signing a player. Well, they bought out deandre Ayton, which was not expected, and then signing a player in Dame Lillard, which, you know, was the move that made everybody, including Dame, happy. Dame just gave an interview in the last week talking about Happy is. But of course he's going to miss this whole season, most likely. But you know, it wasn't like it got 17 votes, but multiple people panned that that trade, I would assume bon temps was because Jrue Holiday is a player that you see as a finishing piece, especially at this age. And the fact that he has $104 million in three years left on his.

[Wendy]

Contract, I would say it kind of goes back to the same conversation we've had about a few of these things. And it was the process of the movement. And in general, I think people are just not quite sure what Portland is trying to accomplish. You know, the Celtics are sitting there with Drew Holiday on a not so great contract, and they are able to get off them for free and taking back Anthony Simons on and expiring. And you've got a Portland team that's invested all this draft capital in Scoot Henderson and Shaden Sharp. And you now have, you know, is Drew Holiday going to come off the bench behind Scoot Henderson? Is he going to start with Scoot Henderson? You've got Denny Abdia, who they traded for last year and had a very nice year. Are he and Jeremy Grant going to start on the wing? Are they going to start shading Sharp on the wing? They draft Donovan Clingan last year, then they draft young Hansen this year. Are they going to play like. I think John Hodson is more of a developmental piece, so I doubt he'll play a ton this year, but I think it just sort of plays into what's been the general theme around Portland for a couple of years now, which is the Blazers do have some talent on their roster, and they had a nice close to the season last year. I think they were 500 the second half of the year. But it's like, okay, you add Drew Holiday to this team, but where does he fit? And why are you doing this and why are you taking on all of this money to be again right up against the luxury tax when you have to, you know, start looking at paying these guys in the future? And you've still got Jeremy Grant on your books for three years. And it was just. It was just a lot of confusion about what they're trying to do.

[Bon Temps]

They're sealing this year as a playing team like this. This is not going to be a top six team in the West.

[Wendy]

Certainly hard to see that, barring some kind of crazy breakout for Scoot or something.

[Bon Temps]

Yeah, this is not going to be a team that's a threat to do any kind of playoff damage. You know, the. The one thing that I will say is we started this podcast after you did a bunch of butt kissing of the referees discussing Fred Van Vliet's value to the Rockets. Right. And Fred Van Vliet going to use on a max contract. And man, he was. He was worth every penny of that. Because of him helping to establish the culture and the leadership and the toughness and the professionalism and all those kind of things. I gotta think that's part of the vision and the hope with Jrue Holiday in Portland. I will say, as consummate of a pro as he is, you know, I've never heard anything but great things about JRU Holliday's character. One massive difference there would be Fred Van Vliet chose to go to Houston. If Drew Holiday had a trade list, I somehow doubt that. Portland was very high on that. Fred Van Vliet chose to go to Houston and Houston chose to pay Fred Van Vliet. You know, yeah, his decision was influenced by that fact, but he chose that. Drew Holiday just woke up, was traded across the country to Portland. And again, this is a guy who he has been the finishing piece twice. He was a finishing piece in Milwaukee, he was a finishing piece in Boston. And this is a puzzle that's still very incomplete.

[Wendy]

More Hoop Collective podcast after this race.

[McMahon]

The rudders.

[Wendy]

Raise the sails.

[Bon Temps]

Raise the sails.

[McMahon]

Captain, an unidentified ship is approaching.

[Wendy]

Over. Roger. Wait, is that an enterprise sales solution? Reach sales professionals, not professional sailors. With LinkedIn ads, you can target the right people by industry, job title and more. Start converting your B2B audience today.

[McMahon]

Spend $250 on your first campaign and get a free $250 credit for the next one.

[Wendy]

Get started [e-mail] Campaign terms and conditions apply.

[Paris]

And now a message from McAfee.

[McMahon]

Your package couldn't be delivered. You owe thousands in unpaid tolls.

[Bon Temps]

You won a free gift.

[Paris]

If texts like these sound familiar, McAfee can help. McAfee automatically identifies text and email scams as well as AI generated audio to help you stay safe. If they're faking it, they're not making it past us. Get award winning scam detection today. Mcafee.com keepitreal hey, it's Paris. You know I love sparkly things, right? Like stars.

[Bon Temps]

Duh.

[Paris]

And thanks to Hilton and auto camp, I just slept under them. Picture me serving looks by the fire outside my luxurious Airstream, making s' mores with the kids. While a national park is our backdrop, the great outdoors meets Hilton hospitality. That's hot. Explore all the new ways to [e-mail] Hilton for the stay.

[McMahon]

Okay, under the best moves of the off season, Kevin Durant trade by a good note, no. 11 of the 20 votes. Magic trading for Desmond Bain, number two. Yep, a lot of people seem to like that trade, but it also might be a function of there weren't as many big giant trades too.

[Bon Temps]

Those are the two. Those are the two. Definitely biggest. I would say not just trades, but transactions for agencies.

[Wendy]

I also told people they couldn't say both sides of the Hawks trade, so you were not able to just say, yeah, the Hawks did the best and the Pelicans did the Well, I just like made it, it would have been kind of, I mean, if you.

[Bon Temps]

Yeah.

[Wendy]

Considering the Pelicans had the worst move, handled pretty heavily. If I just gave people the option to pick it on both sides, it wouldn't have been worth asking.

[Bon Temps]

The KB trade versus the Bain trade I think is interesting because KD obviously we'll see if there's an extension or not, but that's a probably a three year window type of trade where they didn't sacrifice any Runway. Right. And the price was, the price was not that high. Where the Bain trade could potentially be a much longer term fit, obviously because of his age, because he's just entering his prime. But the price that they paid for Bain was significantly higher. Like that was four picks including the Suns unprotected pick in this next draft. That, that, that was a pretty steep price.

[Wendy]

And I'm still waiting to be convinced that the Magic are going to be as heavy into the luxury tax as they are currently projected to be going forward with all four of those guys that Desmond Bain, Jalen Suggs and the two Max guys, Franz Wagner and Paolo Banquero, all on the roster. So it's going to be interesting to see. You know, Jeff Altman earlier this summer said they, you know, they want to be a team that's competing for the east and going to the finals and doing that kind of stuff. And I mean, they've got a chance to do that now. I really like the trade, but you know, that's there. It's going to be interesting to see how they manage their finances after the amount of cash they're projected to pay.

[McMahon]

All right, this one from the bond temps survey is particularly interesting and I commend you for asking this question, Timothy. Oh, where will LeBron James be at the start of the 26, 27 season?

[Bon Temps]

Oh, what's your prediction, Wendy?

[McMahon]

I don't know. Oh, I don't know. It's not an option.

[Bon Temps]

That's controversial.

[Wendy]

Six, Six retired was an option.

[McMahon]

Okay, so six different answers. Lakers got the most seven votes. If I had to choose one of these, I would have picked the Lakers. Okay. Obviously, as a free agent after the season, second most votes, retired.

[Bon Temps]

That's the one that would surprise me the most. But go on.

[McMahon]

Number three, Cleveland Cavs, four votes. Number four, Golden State warriors, two votes. And then one vote each for the Dallas Mavericks. Oh, man, I would love for you to have to deal with that on the way out the door.

[Bon Temps]

Listen.

[McMahon]

And the Miami Heat.

[Bon Temps]

Hey, closing on a new house. We're gonna have A guest.

[McMahon]

Congratulations.

[Bon Temps]

Yeah, we're gonna have a guest room and get. Just get it ready for old McMinn. He can move right on in and mortgage 50. 50 between me and him.

[McMahon]

Luke, is Luca keeping his mansion. He could just, you know, sublet it to LeBron.

[Bon Temps]

That's true. I don't know what Luke has done with that one. He did get the. Who. Who's the tennis player. He got the tennis players mansion in Manhattan Beach.

[McMahon]

Do you remember when. When Tom Brady went to play for the Buccaneers and he like, he got Jeters, right? Derek Jeter's place.

[Bon Temps]

Yeah, we've had. We've had house swaps. What was Josh Hart and who was that with Josh Hart?

[Wendy]

Oh, our buddy.

[Bon Temps]

Yeah, yeah, that's right.

[McMahon]

I think story time.

[Bon Temps]

Oh, another one. A double story time episode.

[Wendy]

We're late like four of them.

[Bon Temps]

Yeah.

[McMahon]

Carmelo Anthony gets traded to the. To the Knicks mid season. If you remember correctly, it was a long saga. First, first the Nets wanted to trade him and then he said he want to go to the Nets. And then Mikhail Prokoroff with the spectacular quote in the press conference. Bontemps. Remember that?

[Wendy]

Yeah.

[McMahon]

Meeting with Carmelo was hereby canceled.

[Wendy]

Yeah.

[McMahon]

And anyway, he gets traded to the Knicks. Like a few days later, the Knicks are playing the Heat. I'm covering the game sitting courtside and courtside. Wendy, that was back in the old days and you know, some of the, you know, the Heat players, you know, this is the. This is the first year of the Heat of the Heatles. And you know, coming up and telling him, you know, congratulations. Hey, you look great in Nick's uniform, blah, blah, blah. So Druna Silgauskas, the guy who I covered for eight years with the Cavs, comes up to Carmelo and tries to sell him his townhouse in New York City. That's right. He's like five bedrooms. Just redid it. You know, seven baths, you know, Upper west side. I don't know where it was. Yeah, he's like, it's awesome. You know, he's like, hit me up. All right, anyway, Bon thumbs, you had a good quote here from one of the executives or that could have been a coach. He said, if I was taking the Lakers of the field, I'd take the field, but I'd take the Lakers over any specific team. Especially given they are going with the clear path to pay him.

[Wendy]

People just, I would say just generally people didn't really know. I mean, not that it's a shock, but there wasn't a lot of strong opinions about it, it was just, you know, like, as we. I don't know if I would be.

[McMahon]

Interested in LeBron's answer to this.

[Wendy]

Well, I, I would. I think everybody be interested in LeBron's answer. But, you know, the Lakers are the one team that can definitively pay him next summer.

[Bon Temps]

Definitely it'll be an NBA team if he's still playing.

[McMahon]

Ah, now we. Now we have arrived. Not on this list.

[Bon Temps]

I was setting you up, Wendy.

[McMahon]

Not on this list is other.

[Wendy]

Yeah.

[McMahon]

And we had the photo with LeBron and Maverick Carter and Miskoznatovic. Misko Raznatovich, who is one of the leading European agents, if not the most.

[Bon Temps]

European, best known in America's Joker's agent, but the Nuggets.

[McMahon]

Yes. And a lot of people jumped to conclusion that it was some. Because when Misko posted it on his Instagram, he. I say he said something like, you know, talking about the future or something like that.

[Bon Temps]

Yeah.

[McMahon]

And people jumped to conclusions that it was about LeBron teaming up with Jokic and to the point where Misko had to come out and say that's not what they were talking about. It was in San Tropez in July. I think it was in July, might have been in August. And he said, he went on. He went on a Serbian podcast and spoke on the record about it. I had to speak to a Serbian that I know to make sure that the translation was accurate. But what Misko said About Maverick and LeBron was, quote, this translation. They are planning a certain group of investors, a classic business, to create a league that would somehow also compete with the NBA. They don't want it to be a US League. They want it to have a European flavor, so to speak. And when they started working on it, everyone told them to call me. And I believe he said he's had multiple meetings with Maverick about it. Now, Adam Silver was asked about this within the last week at conference in New York City. I think it was the front office sports conference.

[Wendy]

Yep.

[McMahon]

And he mentioned Silver, I think brought it up that he saw the pictures.

[Wendy]

I think he got asked about it.

[McMahon]

Okay. Anyway, he said he was aware of it, but he hasn't been following the league. And he said competition is good. It keeps everyone on their toes. So other was not an option, nor would I necessarily vote for other.

[Wendy]

I didn't say other wasn't an option. If somebody had said he's going to go play in his own league, I would have said that.

[McMahon]

Well, I wouldn't say this is quite an elephant in the room, but it's something that, you know, you know, Adam Silver sort of just, you know, tried to sort of shrug his shoulders about, but it's not nothing. And you got, you know, Misko on the record talking about it, albeit in Serbian. He also said that worldwide, when you.

[Bon Temps]

Can bring your Serbian translations.

[McMahon]

He found out, he found out the day before that he was meeting with LeBron and he said that he went through a suitcase and found his most powerful looking shirt because he wanted to dominate the photo.

[Bon Temps]

Oh.

[McMahon]

So he obviously knew that there was going to be a photo that was probably going to get posted.

[Bon Temps]

So what's your beautiful looking shirt?

[McMahon]

Good question. It's not this light blue Greg Norman shark shirt.

[Bon Temps]

I'll tell you what, man. I got some of these. I won't say the brand unless they want to sponsor us, but my birthday, Maria made sure I got some of these like really fancy athleisure type of T shirts that are way more expensive than I ever thought I'd pay for a T shirt, but I didn't have to pay for them. Pretty nice, man. I ain't gonna lie. Not wearing one. This shirt I got announced from the old Cadillac Ranch in Southington, Connecticut. Bon tips has had a few pops there. I believe.

[McMahon]

You're completely derailing this conversation.

[Wendy]

What a shock. I've never actually been to the Cadillac Ranch combo. I've never actually been to the Cadillac Ranch anyway.

[McMahon]

It was like a mechanical bull pinkish purple power shirt that Mishka was wearing.

[Bon Temps]

I'd have to analyze that. I think pinkish purple would be tough.

[McMahon]

Other is not on the board here, but you know, he's going to be a free agent, so. And you know, right now there's a number of older star players who are currently scheduled to be free agents next year. So I don't really have much more that I can say about it other than that. I mean not that I have. Not that I have information I'm not giving, but I'm just.

[Bon Temps]

It's something that exists.

[McMahon]

It's something that exists. Okay. The key was the key question here. The bottom line. Bontemps who will win each conference in the NBA title? Western Conference? Pretty simple. Thunder 18 votes. Nuggets 2 votes. Not quite as lopsided as Jokic.

[Bon Temps]

Well, interesting that this was pre Van Vliet injury. The Rockets didn't get either of the the two the non OKC votes but.

[McMahon]

Also NBA title. Thunder 18 votes. Nuggets two votes. No regard for the Eastern Conference. Naturally the east has much more debate. Bontemps five different votes. Five different Teams get votes in the survey. Cavs with nine votes with the lead, Knicks with seven votes. And then the Hawks, Bucks and Magic, all good votes. What was the sentiment that you collected there?

[Wendy]

I mean, I think it's pretty straightforward. The Thunder or the heavy. Heavy, heavy favorites to win the title. I've. I've found it sort of odd that there's been this reticence from people, I think in like at least in the media to act like, you know. Well, yeah, I know there hasn't been, you know, all these. Because there hasn't been a repeat champion in a while, that it's wide open to some degree this year. It's not. It's not wide open. The Thunder think right where they should be, at least in my mind, which is the very heavy favorites to win. And if they don't win, it will be a, you know, moderate to massive disappointment, barring insignificant injuries. And look, the. The teams that were in the NBA Finals the past year from the Eastern Conference had devastating injuries to their best players in the spring. And so there isn't a clear consensus on who should come out of the East. Sure, the Cavs and Knicks got the most votes, but everybody was like, I have no idea who to pick and I'll settle on one of them or I'll pick somebody else because I don't believe in either of them. And it's what's going to make this season so interesting, I think in the east because the Cavs you mentioned earlier, Darius Garland is dealing with the turf toe surgery he had. Max Drus is out for who knows how long with this Jones fracture. We'll see what else happens with Cleveland during the year. The Knicks come into the season with gigantic pressure on them after making the conference finals, firing Tom Thibodeau, hiring Mike.

[McMahon]

Brown, having an Eastern Conference that's totally gettable.

[Wendy]

The only acceptable outcome in New York will be if the Knicks make the Finals. Anything short of that will be a massive disappointment for where things sit now for the Knicks.

[McMahon]

You know, I would say an opportunity for Jalen Brunson to achieve Knicks immortality.

[Wendy]

He already might be one of the five best Knicks ever after. Just like he's on the list three or four years and if he, if he gets the Knicks to the Finals, he'll absolutely be a on that list.

[Bon Temps]

And how many of those was Brunson guilty of? Let's get up.

[Wendy]

I do not know. And then you've. Yeah, so like it's. The east is just going to be completely wide open. You got the Hawks and The magic young teams on the rise. We'll see what they can do. See what happens with, you know, Giannis having the ball in his hands.

[McMahon]

Did the Hawks get a ball?

[Wendy]

They got a couple. Okay, they got a couple. Orlando got a couple. Milwaukee got one with Giannis. One. One person voted for them was basically, I'm just going to pick the best player because I don't really trust anybody else. So, you know, how many votes is.

[Bon Temps]

The six going to be last year? Do you remember?

[Wendy]

I can go look.

[McMahon]

He doesn't keep stats on this like he does.

[Wendy]

I mean, I'll have it in a spreadsheet. I think my point is just this. I think Boston got a. Boston got most of them.

[Bon Temps]

Okay, but the Sixers, I bet you would finish second in last year in this particular question.

[Wendy]

Yeah, probably my point is this, like.

[Bon Temps]

The Sixers are completely forgotten about and were as big of a disaster as you can get last year, but they've at least got a puncher's chance in this watered down Eastern Conference. I mean, there's a whole lot of.

[Wendy]

Ifs and maybes, but if the Sixers are healthy in the spring, they have an argument as being the most talented team in the East. Now, am I putting money on the Sixers being healthy? No. But if they are healthy. So last year The Celtics got 13 votes to win the east, the Bucks and Knicks got two and the Sixers got one.

[Bon Temps]

Okay. I would have thought Sixers got more.

[Wendy]

One thing about coming off the title and we're very heavy.

[Bon Temps]

My point stays the same though. Like the Sixers, you at least have to consider. It's funny, a sleeper after they were, you know, just so hyped after, I think, do they have a championship banner for the summer of 24 and they might have one up in whatever they're calling that arena these days, those rafters. But they're completely under the radar now, but still have a whole bunch of ifs, but whole bunch of talent to.

[McMahon]

The point that you made bontemps about the Thunder. I think we should point out that the Thunder, you know, they haven't been a tax paying team. And I mean they have paid the tax in the past, but they're not. If they were not a taxpayer last year, I believe they're not going to be. They will not be in the tax this year, they will not next year. So this year their salaries right now are about 186 million. Next year, when, when I say next year, I'm talking about the 26, 27 season. That's when the maxes that J Dub and Chad Holmgren signed this summer hit the books, their payroll is going to increase by $60 million. Going to be 245 million as we sit here today. And they've got some players with some team options. Yeah, Isaiah Hartenstein and Lou Dort primarily. You know, they have draft picks, they're going to develop, whatever. You know, they certainly, you know, I think Sam Presti has talked about this, that they've, that they've planned it all out for their finances. But this will be the last year of the cheap Thunder.

[Bon Temps]

Yeah.

[McMahon]

So they're this, this roster and like I said, they may replace some of these guys very cleanly, but they are young and they are cheap. It is quite possible that this season where they are, they've all got their championship, you know, bona fides. They've gone through game sevens and everything like that. They've got full confidence. They're super young, they're healthy and they're cheap. Like this may be the hardest year to get him of what could be this window? Maybe not. Maybe they draft somebody. Maybe somebody steps forward. Maybe Jalen Williams takes another step forward and he becomes a first team all NBA type player alongside Sha. I don't know, whatever.

[Bon Temps]

Maybe they get the number one overall pick in one of these upcoming drafts. This is. Maybe they do because they have so many, so many that aren't protected like possibility.

[McMahon]

I'm just saying, you know, and there's plenty of times where talk in September looks foolish by December, much less June. But you could make the argument that the Thunder in this season are, is going to be as formidable as they, as they will be in this, in this maybe next three or four years. So because they have this flexibility and they can keep all of these dudes together. So. You know what though?

[Bon Temps]

When, when we're talking about the financial decisions they have to make down the road, I do just want to throw in there. I believe that the 28 will be their new arena which when you get a new arena, revenue goes up and they are paying less for that arena than they're paying.

[McMahon]

I think their mortgage is going to be less than years.

[Bon Temps]

Don't get them started on that especially.

[McMahon]

Did I miss anything? Survey bond temps that you were particularly passionate about. There's a bunch more categories I don't want.

[Wendy]

I think the one thing we should, should talk about that we didn't is the American players. Questions?

[McMahon]

Okay, who is the best American player right now? Three votes. Three players got votes.

[Wendy]

Well, just. And just to put a Pin in this really quick. The reason I asked this question is because of the Jason Tatum injury in particular, because I think before Jason Tatum got hurt, he was pretty obviously the choice. He's made four straight first team, all NBAs. He's coming off winning a champion championship last year. Fantastic player. Like there was really no doubt that he was the answer to the question until he tore his Achilles in May.

[McMahon]

Right. The key is right now.

[Wendy]

That's right, yeah. And Tyrese Halberton might have been the second choice and then he tore his kills. So.

[Bon Temps]

Yeah, I mean, I think Ant's going to be. Ant would have been a.

[McMahon]

Well, let me give the votes regardless. Steph Curry won with 11 votes, which, you know, it's not a great commentary on the state of American basketball.

[Wendy]

That is the point. And I would have picked Steph personally.

[Bon Temps]

Pretty damn good at the end of the Olympics, at least.

[McMahon]

Ant Edwards, second with eight votes and the only other guy who got to vote, Donovan Mitchell, one vote at third.

[Wendy]

Yeah, I mean, the fact that a 37 year old guy is getting that honor, I think both speaks positively towards Steph longevity and also to, you know, this next cohort of guys has not really caught up yet.

[Bon Temps]

Well, a 40 year old guy is just high on that list still.

[Wendy]

I mean, there were. There, there were. He didn't get a vote, but there were. He definitely, definitely was like, well, I mean, probably got to pick Stefan LeBron over anybody else still. And I mean, Steph's a little younger and coming off a great season, but.

[Bon Temps]

And a few. What? A few years ago people thought John Moran was ascending to the top of this list and that obviously has not happened for a variety of reasons.

[McMahon]

It'll be interesting if you do this question a year from now what this list looks like. But you also asked who will be the best American player in five years.

[Bon Temps]

Right.

[McMahon]

Okay, five guys got votes here. Aunt Edwards, number one with 11 votes, strong number, Cooper Flagg comes in second. Five votes. That's your Dallas guy there, McMahon, Jason Tatum with two. Paolo Banchero and J Dub. Jalen Williams from the Thunder, a number with one vote.

[Bon Temps]

And again I mentioned Jaws. Zion's another guy. If you'd have done this five years ago, Zion's gonna be off the eye on that list that's fizzled out.

[Wendy]

Although no question, years had nice things.

[Bon Temps]

To say about him on NBA Today this afternoon.

[Wendy]

I mean, no question about both those guys falling off the map. There were several people who said that they think Cooper easily could be that guy, but they didn't want to say that before he played an NBA game, which is reasonable, I think. And like there's. And then there's also, like, I could see a world where Jalen Williams continues to ascend and is in that conversation. The guy we talked about a lot earlier on the podcast, Amend Thompson, is the kind of guy that five years from now, I think there's a world where he's in that conversation, especially if he ascends the way he potentially could. You know, there's a bunch of big time talents in this upcoming draft. Maybe some of those guys bust out, but, you know, I mean, we're, we're on a stretch where it's been what, six or seven years in a row that an international player has won mvp.

[Bon Temps]

Yeah.

[Wendy]

And there's a certain French fella who is potentially on the way to start doing that too.

[Bon Temps]

So I don't think Resolce is that good.

[Wendy]

So. It will be. It's interesting to think about, especially looking ahead to 2028 and what's going to be a pretty massive Olympics in LA for Team usa. You know, Kevin Durant the other day said he would love to be part of Team USA if he's still.

[McMahon]

I'm not ruling it out.

[Wendy]

I'm not ruling it out either. I mean, he can play till he's 60 if he wants.

[Bon Temps]

I know LeBron said he's done. I'm not ruling out LeBron.

[McMahon]

I wouldn't. Well, that's a long way from now, But I'm, I'm.

[Bon Temps]

LeBron loves the spotlight. What better way to exit than with an olympic gold in LA?

[Wendy]

Until Steph. Until Steph. LeBron and KD are off the board. I'm not taking them off the board myself. That's all.

[McMahon]

The guy that Grant Hill needs to be working on recruitment is Chet Holmgren. We need, we as the Americans, we need size. Chet Holmgren is a parent, is a, you know, prototypical international player, floor stretching guy who can get up and down the floor, can get out to defend the three point shot, shot blocker, like.

[Wendy]

Yeah, it's just, it's going to be an interesting few years ahead for the American.

[McMahon]

Here's the thing. And, and we'll leave it at this because it's a long podcast already, but the thing about it is that's challenging is, you know, because the 2028 Olympics has been brought up a little bit in the last week or so. You know, just a topic to talk about. Yeah, it's dead spot. The Americans have a challenge that I, that they haven't had before, or at least not in a long time, they don't have to qualify. That sounds like an inverse challenge. You think, well, you don't have to qualify because, you know, qualifying for the Olympics is hard, but if you're the host country, you don't have to qualify. And so that means that the Americans do not have a super duper incentive to have a strong team for the World cup for 27.

[Bon Temps]

That means guys playing in the 28 Olympics ain't gonna be playing the next few. So.

[McMahon]

Well, unless Grant Hill says, if you want to play in 28, you got to play in 27. But the problem with that is, is you got a whole bunch of guys with equity. And it's hard to say, you know, Devin Booker, you know, or somebody like, you know, he's got multiple golds to do that. That was Jerry Colangelo did it. Coming off of a loss of one five straight goals. There's a whole bunch of guys who have won gold medals. And the 27 World cup is in. Is in Qatar, and it's in, like, August or September, and it's just not a place that people want to go. You know, they're not lining up.

[Bon Temps]

Who's covering that for us?

[McMahon]

Good question. I nominate Bon Temps.

[Bon Temps]

I think it'll be Bond temps. What was your. What was the Americans record in the Olympics under your watch?

[McMahon]

They lost one game in the two Olympics I covered.

[Bon Temps]

Okay.

[McMahon]

To France, so all gold now. The Americans record on the World Cups covered three, and they ain't one yet.

[Bon Temps]

I said Olympics.

[McMahon]

I covered a sixth place team and a seventh place team and a third place team. The three World Cups.

[Bon Temps]

It's a meme for the youngsters.

[McMahon]

Doha is gorgeous. Bon Temps in late August. It's gorgeous.

[Wendy]

Sounds delightful.

[McMahon]

All right, thank you very much to Jackson for stitching this all together. Thank you very much to Bon Tempson McMahon. Thank you for watching. Listening to the Hoop Collective. We'll talk to you next week. Maybe.

[Bon Temps]

For now, just say adios, amigos.

[Wendy]

You've seen the headlines, heard the debates.

[McMahon]

The three point ball has created a monotonous rhythm to the game.

[Wendy]

Has the three pointer ruined basketball? And how did we get here?

[McMahon]

The rise of the three point shot can be partially traced to an eccentric Kansas genius named Martin Manley, whose story.

[Wendy]

Didn'T turn out quite the way he imagined.

[Bon Temps]

I decided I wanted to have one of the most organized goodbyes in history.

[McMahon]

30 for 30 podcast presents Chasing Basketball Heaven.

[Wendy]

Available now, wherever you get your podcasts.