WCF Game 1 Reaction, Major Keys To ECF + Future In Boston & Cleveland

Summary

Detailed Summary of "WCF Game 1 Reaction, Major Keys To ECF + Future In Boston & Cleveland"
Brian Windhorst & The Hoop Collective
Release Date: May 21, 2025

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Introduction

In this episode of The Hoop Collective, hosted by Brian Windhorst alongside ESPN insiders Tim Bontemps and Tim McMahon, the trio delves deep into the NBA’s recent developments. The primary focus centers on Game 1 of the Eastern Conference Finals (ECF), reactions to the Oklahoma City Thunder's performance, future prospects for teams like the Boston Celtics and Cleveland Cavaliers, and insightful commentary on key players and management decisions.

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Thunder vs. Timberwolves Game 1 Reaction

Brian Windhorst kicks off the discussion by reflecting on traveling logistics, leading into a comprehensive analysis of the Thunder's victory over the Minnesota Timberwolves.

• Game Overview:
  The Thunder secured a victory in Game 1 against the Timberwolves, which Brian describes as "not extraordinarily interesting" but acknowledges the team's strong defensive performance.

• Key Performances and Strategy:
  Tim McMahon emphasizes the Thunder's defensive prowess, noting, "This was a dominant defensive performance by the Thunder. They played one terrible offensive half and one good offensive half, and it was enough for them to blow out their opponent" (03:04).

• Turnovers and Defense:
  The Thunder capitalized on Minnesota's turnovers, converting 19 turnovers into 31 points. McMahon highlights, "They are averaging over 25 points off of turnovers in the playoffs. It’s the best of the play-by-play era according to Stats" (04:53).

• Statistical Insights:

  • Points Off Turnovers: Thunder outscored Timberwolves by a 31 to 10 advantage.
  • Paint Dominance: Thunder made 27 field goals in the paint compared to Timberwolves' 23 attempts (05:09).
  • Free Throws: Despite Floyd Mayweather's 14 free throw attempts against Timberwolves' 21 attempts, Thunder maintained a slight edge in free throw efficiency (05:25).

Notable Quote:
"The defense, they were the most dominant defense in the NBA all season long and they have cranked that up to an even higher level in the playoffs." — Tim McMahon (03:40)

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Anthony Edwards and Timberwolves' Struggles

Anthony Edwards' performance garnered significant attention, with the trio analyzing his limited aggression and the team's overall strategy issues.

• Limited Aggression:
  Edwards had only one layup or dunk attempt in the game, prompting discussions about his need to "attack the rim" more (06:54).

• Team Strategy:
  The Timberwolves struggled with open three-point shots, going 11 for 39 compared to Thunder's 10 for 16. McMahon asserts, "The Thunder, this is what they do in terms of the turnovers" (08:57).

• Defensive Challenges:
  Timberwolves faced relentless defense from the Thunder, with players like Caruso and Case Wallace applying intense pressure, leading to frequent steals and disrupted offensive plays (07:40).

Notable Quote:
"Ant does not attack the rim. His teammates are imploring him to do it." — Brian Windhorst (07:07)

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Michael Malone's MVP Comments

The conversation shifts to Michael Malone of the Denver Nuggets and his recent remarks favoring Shae Gil de Quiroz Alexander (assumed to be a typo for SGA) over Nikola Jokić for the MVP title.

• MVP Discussion:
  Malone declared Shae the MVP, a statement that stirred reactions among fans and analysts. Brian Windhorst comments, "It was notable. I'll just leave it at that. It was certainly noted by the Denver Nugget fans" (20:54).

• Comparison with Jokić:
  The trio debates Jokić's qualifications, highlighting his triple-double averages and statistical dominance. However, Malone's support for Shae signals a possible shift in MVP considerations.

• Host Perspectives:
  Tim McMahon notes the historical significance, "SGA has the two strongest tiebreakers... and he has earned it" (26:33).

Notable Quote:
"Michael Malone's relationship with Jokic... has yielded a championship where they worked together and regardless of how raw somebody's emotions might be, it’s valuable in television." — Brian Windhorst (25:18)

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Eastern Conference Finals: Knicks vs. Pacers Preview

A significant portion of the discussion revolves around the impending ECF matchup between the New York Knicks and the Indiana Pacers.

• Series Forecast:
  Brian Windhorst anticipates a fiercely competitive series, citing historical matchups and current team performances. He mentions, "This is probably going to be another super long series they played last year" (35:01).

• Key Matchups:

  • Mikhail Bridges vs. Tyrese Alberton: Both players bring unique strengths and familiarity from previous teams.
  • Miles Turner vs. Carl Towns: An intriguing battle where Turner’s shooting could challenge Towns’ defensive role (32:53).

• Historical Context:
  The Knicks and Pacers have a rich playoff history, having faced each other more times in the playoffs over the last 32 years than any other NBA teams, adding nostalgia and intensity to the series (35:01).

Notable Quote:
"Brunson's Brunson is having a historic playoff run here and Brunson and Halliburton both have had great clutch performances." — Brian Windhorst (36:08)

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Boston Celtics' Offseason and Future Plans

The Celtics' management outlook post-season receives critical attention, focusing on injuries, team health, and strategic direction.

• Trainer Recognition:
  The New York Knicks' training staff won the NBA Trainers Association's award, highlighting their role in maintaining team health (30:07).

• Injury Concerns:
  Jaylen Brown’s partially torn meniscus is discussed, with Brian Windhorst noting the implications for the Celtics' offseason plans (47:29).

• Management Statements:
  Koby Altman, Celtics' President, acknowledged the team's "regular season" status and the need to change the narrative following playoff disappointments. He emphasized retaining the core and focusing on growth, particularly with rising stars like Evan Mobley (40:53).

• Roster Considerations:
  Discussions include potential trades, managing the salary cap, and building a younger core around key players like Jason Tatum and Donovan Mitchell.

Notable Quote:
"We've got Evan Mobley taking a huge step. His priority one and two is we're going to keep getting better and differently than we did in the past." — Tim Bontemps (42:06)

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Cleveland Cavaliers' Future Prospects

The Cavaliers' front office strategies and future directions are analyzed, considering the team’s performance and management's vision.

• Core Stability:
  Tim Bontemps discusses the Cavaliers' commitment to keeping their core intact despite recent challenges, emphasizing their belief in players like Evan Mobley.

• Strategic Growth:
  The focus is on building around a young, talented core while addressing weaknesses highlighted during the playoffs, such as offensive efficiency and injury management.

Notable Quote:
"If Evan Mobley can become a top five or ten player in the league... he has a ceiling that Donovan Mitchell's not getting to." — Tim Bontemps (42:06)

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Conclusion

The episode wraps up with the hosts sharing lighthearted banter and teasing upcoming episodes, emphasizing their dedication to providing in-depth NBA analysis despite the late hours.

Closing Remarks:
Brian Windhorst humorously mentions the exhaustion from the late-night broadcast:
"I can’t do this much longer. I just. I’m getting too." (52:05)

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Notable Quotes Recap

1. Tim McMahon:
   "They are averaging over 25 points off of turnovers in the playoffs. It’s the best of the play-by-play era according to Stats." (04:53)

2. Brian Windhorst:
   "Ant does not attack the rim. His teammates are imploring him to do it." (07:07)

3. Brian Windhorst:
   "This was a dominant defensive performance by the Thunder." (03:40)

4. Tim Bontemps:
   "If Evan Mobley can become a top five or ten player in the league... he has a ceiling that Donovan Mitchell's not getting to." (42:06)

5. Brian Windhorst:
   "Michael Malone's relationship with Jokic... has yielded a championship where they worked together." (25:18)

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This episode of The Hoop Collective offers a comprehensive analysis of key NBA matchups, player performances, and strategic insights into team management, providing listeners with an engaging and informative overview of the current basketball landscape.

Transcript

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[Tim Bontemps]

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[Brian Windhorst]

Hello and welcome to the Hoop Collective podcast. We talk about the NBA, which we're doing after midnight on Wednesday morning. Joining me from New York City, where the Knicks will host the Pacers in game one on Wednesday night of the Eastern Conference Finals, Tim Bontemps.

[Tim Bontemps]

Hello, everybody.

[Brian Windhorst]

Joining me from across the street in Oklahoma City. He picked me up today at 7am at a hotel in Dallas. I couldn't, you know, this is the man who famously doesn't do anything before the double digit hours. And he said, I'll pick you up at seven. And I was like, am. And sure enough, at seven bells, Bon Temps Band McMahon was in that parking lot ready to drive from Dallas to Oklahoma city. It's band McMan.

[Tim Bontemps]

McMahon knows how to take care of the talent. That's all I got to say.

[Tim McMahon]

Howdy, partners. And by the talent, you mean my wife. The IT department had to make a, a sprint home to, to take care of some things with her, to see her, to service her, you might say. And all's good.

[Brian Windhorst]

I didn't make it to Oklahoma City because of thunderstorm. So I spent the night in Dallas and McMahon drove me right up I35.

[Tim McMahon]

And made it in time for shoot around.

[Brian Windhorst]

I will say this, Bon thumbs. There was at one point, now he's driving a rental car. This is a car he does not know. Okay? He's had, he's, he's been, he's had, he's had.

[Tim Bontemps]

Let's be honest, he doesn't know the drive. He never makes the drive. Well, that's a real upside.

[Brian Windhorst]

But the drive's not hard. No, the drive was no problem.

[Tim McMahon]

You get on 35 and you go.

[Brian Windhorst]

So we're, we're, you know, we're about 50 miles from the airport. And he's looking at the computer and it says it's 57 miles to the airport. Or it's 50 miles to the airport and we got 57 miles left in the.

[Tim Bontemps]

That, that's, that's cutting it a little close.

[Brian Windhorst]

And I was like, you know, McMahon, we maybe should just get a little splash of the tanks, you know what I'm saying? He's like, no, we'll make it, we'll make it.

[Tim Bontemps]

I'm like, you know, ride the horse till it dies.

[Brian Windhorst]

You don't know this car. And I was like, you know, he's like, nah, we'll be fine. I go, you know what? I gotta go to the bathroom. So we stop at a gas station. He puts, but mind you, company card. He puts $3 worth of gas in.

[Tim McMahon]

I got the prepaid thing. I got the prepaid thing.

[Brian Windhorst]

I understand, but you could have put $6 in. So he puts $3 in. We get back on the highway, and he goes, there's no more gas in this car. I got less miles than when we started.

[Tim McMahon]

It settled in. It took a little while. It took a little while to settle. Kind of like the Thunders offense. Night took a little while to settle. And then once. Once it settled in, it was all good.

[Brian Windhorst]

I had this vision of us margin, of us puttering down within sight of the rental car lot, just puttering down the street.

[Tim McMahon]

Well, you'd have gotten executed, gotten in the back and you'd gotten to push it.

[Brian Windhorst]

You executed it. And I have no complaints. I have no complaints.

[Tim McMahon]

Other than 10 minutes of complaints. You just had.

[Brian Windhorst]

No. It was a good story is all.

[Tim Bontemps]

It was not going to complain, but.

[Brian Windhorst]

I was not complaining. No complaints. All right, so McMahon and I were at the Oklahoma City Thunders victory in game one tonight over the Minnesota Timberwolves. And it wasn't an extraordinarily interesting game. I'm going to be honest with you. I'd like to sell the soap a little bit here, but McMahon, I don't think I can sell it the soap. But that's a compliment to the Thunder because what do you talk. What are you laughing at, Bonto?

[Tim Bontemps]

Just like we're just off to a roaring start. You spent 10 minutes complaining about the drive, and then you start off saying the game was boring.

[Brian Windhorst]

It was really bringing. I didn't say it was boring. It just wasn't special.

[Tim McMahon]

No, listen, here's the deal. It was a horrific offensive performance in the first half by the Thunder. Their defense was good enough to keep them in it. Like, they scored 44 points in the first half. Almost half of those were off of turnovers that they created because that's honestly their. Their best offense a lot of times. And then SGA got a rhythm going in the third quarter. Jalen Williams got a rhythm going in the third quarter. Their defense was smothering the Thunder. This was a dominant defense performance by the Thunder. And they played one terrible offensive half and one good offensive half, and it was enough for them to blow out their opponent. We've talked about turnovers being death once again, 19 turnovers. The Thunder convert those into 31 points. They are averaging over 25 points off of turnovers in the playoffs. It's the best of the play by play era according to Stats Williams that like the shot making for this team comes and goes. It es and flows. The defense, they were the most dominant defense in the NBA all season long and they have cranked that up to an even higher level in the playoffs. And not only do they get stops, they they get their offense started a lot with their defense. And that's exactly what happened tonight.

[Tim Bontemps]

Well, I mean it's fascinating. Box score, right? I mean you mentioned it there. 19 turnovers from Minnesota for 31 points for the Thunder. 31 to 10 advantage in points off turnovers. 21 point difference, massive advantage points in the paint Thunder.

[Brian Windhorst]

Let me remind you real quick that the other day in Game 7 against the Nuggets, the differential on points off turnovers was 30.

[Tim McMahon]

Yeah, right.

[Brian Windhorst]

So that's 51, 51 points the last two games.

[Tim Bontemps]

Thunder points in the paint, 54 to 20, 20 in this game.

[Tim McMahon]

By the way, they played small a lot. They didn't play the two bigs together a lot. That's just not letting them get in the paint. And the Wolves bricking away from three point range.

[Tim Bontemps]

The Thunder had more field goals made in the paint 27 than the Wolves attempted in the game 23. And they also, for a team that as we know, famously has groused about their lack of foul attempt, foul shot attempts. This year, Che gets to the line 14 times, they win the foul line battle. 26 to 21 in attempts, 21 to 15 in makes. And despite all that, I came away from this game. Personally watching at home, I don't know what you guys thought feeling this was kind of like game one of Warriors Wolves. Not that I think that the Wolves are going to win the next four games, but at Texas stats, wins when the game was over. And I said when you run the numbers on three point shooting, I would love to hear what the open three point shooting was in the game because it felt like the Wolves had a ton of wide open threes and missed them. And I tweeted out earlier, full credit to him and our research people on open threes in this game. Minnesota was 11 for 39. Oklahoma City was 10 for 16. Now the Thunder only took 21 threes, the Wolves took 51. I think we would all agree the Wolves were too passive. Anthony Edwards had one layup or dunk attempt in the game. It was the one when he Tried to decapitate people at the rim.

[Brian Windhorst]

Yeah.

[Tim Bontemps]

Like, he's got to be more aggressive. But the Wolves can't have to come away from this game, I think, saying, we have good three point shooters. If our guys can make open shots, we can win game two and do exactly we wanted to do in Oklahoma City.

[Brian Windhorst]

Yeah. Well, so couple things. One, ants. Teammates were encouraging him throughout the game. Attack, attack, attack. And he just, you know, he just, you know, first off, he's dealing with some great defenders. Dort is up in his face. Caruso is up in his face. Case and Wallace, by the way, Case and Wallace had seven assists tonight. He had 12. Yeah. What do you have the other night? McMahon.

[Tim McMahon]

He even had a couple. He even had a couple lobs that he completed after I said he throws them all in the fourth ro.

[Brian Windhorst]

Several of his teammates after the game pointed out that he was a point guard in college. But anyway, yeah, Case and Wallace, like, so part of what's going on is it. And you know, you see this sometimes with the Thunder, where no matter how much you prepare yourself to play the Thunder, when you actually do it, it's disorienting a little bit. You know, when you.

[Tim Bontemps]

When you see Caruso, like, playing Indiana, like, we've seen a bunch too, right.

[Brian Windhorst]

When you see Caruso refuse to be screened. When you see, you know, the way.

[Tim McMahon]

Used to be screened.

[Brian Windhorst]

Yeah, just. So part of it is he's harassing.

[Tim McMahon]

The helping.

[Brian Windhorst]

Yeah, part of it is he's just uncomfortable and he's not used to it. But, you know, but part of it was he just, you know, he didn't have that. You know, it's like. It's like one of the things about the NBA that is so remarkable is that you sometimes see these playoff games and these teams start these games and they're just passive.

[Tim McMahon]

Yeah.

[Brian Windhorst]

And. And you're like. But, you know, they all understand the importance of a game, of a playoff game. They all get it. And, you know, so that's what. That's kind of what happened. And, you know, the thing about it was, is that the Wolves came out and they hit like their first three shots. They got up like eight, nothing. And they sort of. They lived off that lead for the whole first half. And so I think they kind of got lulled a little bit. But anyway, Ant does not attack the rim. His teammates are imploring him to do it. He did twist his ankle at one point, but I don't think it really affected him that much.

[Tim McMahon]

He does that every game.

[Brian Windhorst]

I know, but you know you mentioned the 53 won threes bond temps. They took 83 shots and 51 or threes.

[Tim McMahon]

Well and look, Julius Randle was scorching hot right in the first half. He had 20 points in the first half. I mean a great shot making performance. The The Wolves scored 48 as a team and again the Thunder were awful offensively in the first half. Shay was 2 of 13, J Dub was 2 of 8. Like all they could do was get Shay got to the line some and then they got out off of turnovers and transition some. But Randall cooled off and nobody else ever got going for Minnesota and Randall.

[Brian Windhorst]

Didn'T so much cool off, he stopped shooting.

[Tim McMahon]

Right? Right. And Ant really never started shooting. Ant took 13 shots in this game. It is his fewest in a playoff game this season. And I'm gonna read a quote from Dave McMenamin's story which I would just like to point out for the record was filed several minutes after my thought.

[Tim Bontemps]

Tips the only person slower than you. We established that as a fact.

[Tim McMahon]

Several minutes after we have established that as a fact. I'm reading, I'm reading. Aunt says. And again, mind you, okay, 20 points in the paint. You mentioned Ant only had one of his 13 shot attempts were in the paint. Despite the fact the Thunder played their two bigs together far less than they had been. And there were times when, you know, Kenrich, Williams and or Caruso were were playing the five small ball lineups. Ant said, I mean they clogged the paint. That's what they do. They don't got much size down there so they bank on us not making shots, I guess because every time I go to the rim it's like four people in the paint. And by the way, that's how they kept them from scoring in the pain. That's also how like they just swarm you. I tell you, it's not help defense with the Thunder. It's harassed. Defense make you play in crowds. They've got all these guys like Crusoe's got great hands. Jada had five steals and he's got great hands. Case Wallace has great hands. Shea has great hands. They just swarm you, harass you and next thing you know it's whoosh, the ball's going the other way and guys are getting dunks and layups.

[Tim Bontemps]

On another stat from stats, winning is about Anthony Edwards. His average shot distance in this game was 25.8ft per Genius IQ, which is formerly Second Spectrum, the longest of any game in his career, regular season or playoffs. Now again, if You're Minnesota. I think you look at this and say, you know, Nas Reed, very good shooter. K Alexander Walker, very good shooter. Do DiVincenzo, very good shooter. They combine to go 4 for 23, 4 for 24 on open threes in this game. You expect those guys to hit more shots. I think we'll expect Anthony Edwards to play better in game two. That if they can make open shots and not turn the ball over, I think there's every reason to think they could score with the Thunder. The Thunder, a Thunder team that we've seen repeatedly struggle to get going offensively. And they weren't great in the offensively in this game, but. No, but just like if you look at it like, I think if you are Minnesota, you can look at it and say that. But to your point, Nick, man, like, it's one thing to say that and it's another thing to experience playing this Thunder defense and see what they can do and actually be able to do something about it over the course of 48.

[Tim McMahon]

I think you can say if you're Minnesota and you're watching the film, hey, we've got to just shoot the ball better. We've got to make more open shots. But honestly, dude, the Thunder, this is what they do in terms of the turnovers. Like, yes, 19 turnovers for 31 is not an outlier performance. Again, they are averaging 18.3 turnovers force per game in the playoffs. They led the league with 17 during the regular season. They are averaging 25.3 points off of turnovers in the playoffs. The the best since that stats available, which is since 97. Okay. They averaged like 21 and change almost 22, which was a league best during the regular season. The defense, 106.6 during the regular season was their defensive efficiency. It's down to like 100.7. The most dominant defense in the league has cranked it up a couple notches in the playoffs. That's under are where they are.

[Tim Bontemps]

Yeah, I mean, like you said, Brian, Minnesota scored eight points in the first 70 seconds of the game. They scored 80 points the rest of the game. Their offense, their offensive rating in the game was 90.9. Like, it'd be like 12 points worse than the Wizards this year.

[Brian Windhorst]

The Thunder had 13 steals. And I gotta tell you, like, you hold the ball on them and they're just gonna come take it. Like you, you pretty much you. You better keep moving the ball. The problem is, is that that's the thing. Like so many I. I wonder how many of those steals were Strips. Because it felt like probably about eight of them were. Because they just. If you hold the ball, they just come get it from you.

[Tim McMahon]

Yeah.

[Brian Windhorst]

And then of course if you move it, they're always jumping into passing lands. We have so long. Like. But like I, I felt like tonight like a number of the steals were a point where like the ball would just stop and they would bring help defense and then when you tried to move, they just take it from you.

[Tim Bontemps]

They just take it like it's like a man said, if they're. They play small but they play football like defense. Like they're swarming to the ball all the time and they're playing incredibly physically and they, they really are going to take it out of you.

[Brian Windhorst]

The. The wolves were annoyed with the officiating. You know, in the early going the Thunder couldn't make anything and they were kept in the game by Shay's getting the line. Shea got the line 14 times and Chris Finch was grumbling. He, he. During, you know, during some of the early timeouts, he was actually coming over the officials to take his case. And we had two friends of the pod on the. On the staff tonight.

[Tim Bontemps]

James Caper fourth.

[Brian Windhorst]

James Capers and Tyler.

[Tim McMahon]

Oh, listen, I gave Tyler Ford a little tea. He teed up.

[Tim Bontemps]

Believe Mark Lindsay. I thought. I believe Mark Lindsay was the one who called that t. Unless there was a second one.

[Tim McMahon]

Oh, I thought it was Tyler. He but. And did throw the ball at Shay.

[Brian Windhorst]

You know, he threw in his groin.

[Tim McMahon]

Hey, was that all. Was that an entire sub 6 foot crew? I know capers claim 6ft, but we know that ain't true.

[Tim Bontemps]

We're not doing that.

[Tim McMahon]

What? I'm just asking.

[Tim Bontemps]

Not doing that.

[Tim McMahon]

I got a text from an NBA official in the first quarter.

[Brian Windhorst]

I do. I know this. I know that Tyler Ford did not have his whistle on a lanyard and James Capers did. I mean this is the text from.

[Tim McMahon]

This NBA official said quote your short crew from hell. End quote. I didn't think.

[Brian Windhorst]

Fine. They did a fine.

[Tim McMahon]

Yeah, I didn't think the officiating was an issue here. Sh. Was Shea foul hunting? Of course he was. Honestly.

[Tim Bontemps]

Well, listen, again, that turnovers was all.

[Tim McMahon]

They had going offensively.

[Tim Bontemps]

Any game where the Thunder shoot more free throws than their opponent, this is not a commentary on the referees at all. If it's a physical game like it was today and the Thunder shooting more free throws than their opponent, they're going to feel like they're going to win the vast majority of those because that the game is being officiated in their favor.

[Tim McMahon]

If that's yeah. The 68 win team that complained about the free throw disparity against them all year long. Yeah. If they get more free throws than the other team they're going to feel.

[Tim Bontemps]

I'll just say yes. Well in the way they play with as physically as they play if they are if Shay is going to the line like that and they're out pre throwing the other team that means the game is a rough and tumble game. A rough and tumble game despite the fact that the Thunder is small is a big advantage for the well and.

[Tim McMahon]

Your legion of boom comp for the the way the Thunder play defense is perfect because a rare compliment bot.

[Tim Bontemps]

Very rare. Very. But I'll take it.

[Tim McMahon]

And you know he's he's sitting home changing diapers. I'm going to be nice to him as nice as I can be. But seriously, like they are so physical. Like what kind of what's the line like? What do you let them get away? What do you. Don't you know.

[Brian Windhorst]

There was a funny moment tonight in the first half when Nikhil Alexander Walker I said it right.

[Tim McMahon]

Oh baby.

[Brian Windhorst]

Who's obviously Shay Gildrich Alexander's cousin. It was.

[Tim Bontemps]

You couldn't have Mike Brain brought that up about 87 times during the all.

[Tim McMahon]

The hyphens in the correct order. Good job.

[Brian Windhorst]

Couldn't. You couldn't have watched any NBA programming the last four three days and not seen their baby photos which were plastered everywhere. But there was a, there was a play in the first half where Shay just literally took a dive. I don't know. I don't know how else to say it. He took a dive. They called a foul.

[Tim McMahon]

I think it was. I do think he legitimately stumbled, but it was not due to any contact from his cousin.

[Brian Windhorst]

Well, he like yeah. And so they called it and and na looked over at his bench and was like challenge that. Like he was.

[Tim McMahon]

And they did. And they want it. More HOOPP Collective podcast after this.

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[Brian Windhorst]

We had a new colleague tonight.

[Tim McMahon]

Oh, I love new colleagues.

[Tim Bontemps]

You don't love anybody.

[Tim McMahon]

That's really, I like them a lot better than my old colleagues, I can tell you that.

[Brian Windhorst]

Every day the Thunder, they, they have a, they have these screens up in the media areas and it says, welcome visiting media. You know, welcome Dave McMenam. And welcome Tim McMahon. Welcome Anthony Slater from the Athletic. Welcome, Chris Hine, Minneapolis Star Tribune. Welcome Michael Malone, espn. Oh, yeah, loved it.

[Tim McMahon]

Good, good, good to see him. Coach didn't make it for the last series, but he's here now.

[Brian Windhorst]

Oh, come on, come on. That's your colleague. That's your colleague.

[Tim McMahon]

I just said he didn't make it for the last series. He wasn't part of our coverage.

[Tim Bontemps]

Means McMahon is treating him like his colleagues now. So he's good. He's in the mix.

[Brian Windhorst]

Yeah. So anyway, he was on Countdown and he did post game Sports center as well, I believe.

[Tim McMahon]

Yes, he did.

[Brian Windhorst]

Well, you might have seen it. Bon Temps. We were in the locker room, but.

[Tim Bontemps]

I did, I, I, the sound was off because certain people are asleep. But I did, I did see him on, on SportsCenter after the game, answering a few questions.

[Tim McMahon]

Looks sharp.

[Tim Bontemps]

It was, it was a, it was.

[Brian Windhorst]

It refreshing to see.

[Tim Bontemps]

I have to admit, it was a bizarre, it was a bizarre thing to see see Michael Malone standing there in a suit and tie with an ESPN microphone on the court after he's a.

[Brian Windhorst]

Friend of the pod he's known to on our platform.

[Tim Bontemps]

Yes, we all like Michael Malone. It just was bizarre to see him in that after all these years of coaching in playoff games in Denver. It just, it was just jarring to see him doing that.

[Brian Windhorst]

Well, he, he, he jumped in with both feet because he said after the game that, you know, it's, I'm taking a snippet, I'M looking for the actual full paragraph because we were, you know, we were, we were. McMahon and I were working, but he basically called Shea the mvp, which I think is going to be verified in the near future. I don't think it's a hot take, but, you know, this is a guy who rightfully defended Nikola Jokic many times and especially this year. Oh, yeah, you know, led a campaign and again, rightfully so. I mean, what's he going to do? Is he going to say, no, my player, Jokic is not the mvp. But it was notable. I'll just leave it at that. It was certainly noted by the Denver Nugget fans.

[Tim McMahon]

Well, it was notable and I recall I was sitting, oh, just right down the hallway here in OKLAHOMA CITY On March 10th. On March 10th. Now, this is when Michael Malone was. He was coaching the little old Denver Nuggets at the time, as you boys will recall, about a month before he got the old heave ho, as I bet you Tyler Ford's giving him the Evo. But Josh Kroenke in this case gave him the heave ho. Anyways, so this was the game they had the little back to back here. And man, in that second game, it was a Joker masterpiece. Oh, boy, I tell you, this is when Joker had 35 points, 18 rebounds, eight assists. Still in a block. The old Nuggets rallied to win. Joker Malone tried to talk him into sitting out that day. He was like, no, no, no, we took the L yesterday. I'm, I'm, I'm going to rally. This is the day that Joker said, I will say that I think I'm playing the best basketball of my life. So if that's enough, that's enough. If not, the guy referring to SGA deserves it. He's really amazing. Oh, Malone came out breathing fire. That it was. Think it was an afternoon game. No, it was an evening game. That's right. He came out. He came out breathing fire. I'm just okay. He said, I believe his last trip to Oklahoma City, he said, as we wind down this season, this whole MVP thing is going to pick up. You understand that? That's part of it. Obviously, Shay Gildas Alexander is a great player and if he wins his first mvp, he's deserving of that. My thing is this. If you didn't know that Nikola won three MVPs and I put player A and player B on paper, and you had no idea that the guy who was averaging a triple double, the guy who's top three in the three major statistical categories, things that no one's ever done. He wins the MVP 10 times out of 10. And if you don't think so, I think you guys are full of a word he can't say on espn. Oh, he said a bad word. Oh, so now him declaring Shay, no doubt the mvp. I think he's going to be right. I think we're going to find that out. Oh, very, very soon.

[Tim Bontemps]

I mean, I think we might be projecting a little bit.

[Tim McMahon]

I'm not projecting. I'm reading quotes.

[Tim Bontemps]

I. I understand. I just did, you know, guy was a little jab.

[Tim McMahon]

A joker. Hey, you didn't. I had your back, you didn't have mine.

[Tim Bontemps]

He. The guy said he was the MVP because he dominated the second half of the game. I. I don't know. He didn't give a five minute speech about why Shea deserves to win over like. And everybody said for a month, going back to the last straw poll that he's going to win.

[Tim McMahon]

Look, I'm just saying you get aggregated regardless of.

[Tim Bontemps]

Listen, I. Well, Wendy knows we love aggregation on this podcast. As far as I. I know how.

[Tim McMahon]

Much we love it when he knows. I just think we're arms up next time he comes to town.

[Tim Bontemps]

I think it just might be slightly unfair to turn this into some sort of. Malone is giving a backhanded slap at Jokic.

[Brian Windhorst]

Well, certainly people are taking it as whether or not. I mean.

[Tim Bontemps]

Yeah. Yes, of course. Like, people in.

[Tim McMahon]

Michael Malone doesn't even know who you are. Stop sticking up for him. He said it out loud. Was that. Wait, what was that? Was he.

[Tim Bontemps]

I'm not saying he didn't say it.

[Tim McMahon]

He doesn't know who you are. Remember that. Doesn't know who you are.

[Tim Bontemps]

Okay, I. Okay, that was just as. That was playing a game. I think people in Denver having a freak out for him, stating a fact is silly.

[Tim McMahon]

Look, can you please introduce yourself again? I forgot who you are.

[Brian Windhorst]

I'm going to tell you something.

[Tim Bontemps]

I'm sure you did.

[Brian Windhorst]

Michael Malone's relationship with Jokic, wherever it may be at the exact moment, has yielded the most beautiful years of his career, yielded a championship where they worked together and regardless of how raw somebody's emotions might be. And I'm not, I'm not projecting. I'm just saying in general, I know how they feel about each other.

[Tim McMahon]

Well, it was a mutually beneficial relationship that ran its course by the end, but produced the only championship parade in the franchise's history and a whole lot of other success.

[Brian Windhorst]

And by the way, his concept, you know, if you're. If you're arguing for Jokic and you would say that if you looked at them blind. That is a compelling argument.

[Tim McMahon]

One thing about Malone, and it'll serve him well for however long he's with us. The man gets his facts in order and he comes ready to make his case. Yeah, he was. His press conferences were always great. And that's why like if you listen, if he wants to be on espn, in TV for a little while, however long it is, gappy or whatever, he's going to be really good at it. Because the man, the man does his homework and makes a convincing case and doesn't mind.

[Brian Windhorst]

He's not afraid to stake a position which is valuable in television.

[Tim Bontemps]

I just thought. I just thought this was pretty down the middle in terms of what he said. It wasn't like he went on a five minute diatribe.

[Brian Windhorst]

I know. All right, let me ask you this. Bond temps. Do you remember off the top of your head? I didn't ask you to prepare for this, so I'm not gonna hold you to it. Do you remember what your final straw poll, what the percentages were or what the.

[Tim Bontemps]

I mean there was virtually identical between the second and third ones.

[Tim McMahon]

I can look it up here because three seconds because.

[Tim Bontemps]

So 70 to 30 in the second one. 71st place, 32nd place for Shay and 30 and 69. And then one third place for Jokic, the only two to be on the all hundred bouts on each of them. And then in the third one, Shea had 77 and 23 second place votes. And Jokic was obviously the inverse of that.

[Brian Windhorst]

Let's see, once the MVP is announced, which I strongly believe will be Shea. Let's see where those numbers are.

[Tim Bontemps]

So last past drop polls are any indication, they're going to be somewhere right around 77 and 26.

[Tim McMahon]

And listen, after Malone gave that speech that I just repeated, Joker sat out for a stretch and SGA kept doing SGA stuff while The Thunder cruise. 268 wins and the best point differential in NBA history. And he won the NBA scoring title with very good efficiency while filling up the stat. The stat sheet on a nightly basis like it's going to be sga. And again, to me you can make a case for either guy. And SGA has the two strongest tiebreakers. Number one team record was not close. Number two, people don't want to hear this, but if, if it's a tie, I'm going with a guy who hadn't won it yet over the guy who's won three times, period.

[Tim Bontemps]

Well, somebody said Somebody who's with the team said to me back then that if it's as close as this year was, which everybody agreed it was close, the guy who won 68 games is a pretty good tiebreaker.

[Tim McMahon]

Yeah. With the best point differential in NBA history. Yeah.

[Brian Windhorst]

Pontemps, I believe you'll be headed down to Madison Square Garden on Wednesday night for game one.

[Tim Bontemps]

Yes, sir. Oh, yes, sir.

[Brian Windhorst]

The Knicks hosting game one of the conference finals did not see it coming. So congrats to them. Now, the hard part, though, because they have to play a Pacer team that is really, really good. And, you know, you know, I think it was. It was sort of obvious, but Max Stru from the Cavs, you know, he admitted it when the series was over. You know, we weren't quite ready for what we got from the Pacers in game one of that series. And I've seen this now a handful of times in the, in the, in the playoffs last couple years where the Pacers catch some teams flat footed because again, just like with Oklahoma City, you can prepare for their defense, but then when you actually see it, it's not. It's disorienting. You can prepare for the way the Pacers play in terms of speed, but they kind of can hit you. They can kind of hit you. And by the way, I'll point out, last year the Pacers lost games. The Knicks took games one and two. If you remember, they were up two zero.

[Tim Bontemps]

And they were on the verge of being up three zero before Andrew Nemhardt hit that bomb three pointer.

[Tim McMahon]

And then what happened? Injuries took their toll on the Knicks. But you know what, what's the, what's the Trainers Association? Official National Basketball Trainers Association, I believe. Nbata.

[Tim Bontemps]

Yeah.

[Tim McMahon]

Did you see that award they handed out yesterday?

[Tim Bontemps]

I did.

[Tim McMahon]

Oh, I did.

[Tim Bontemps]

Who won that? Who won that award, Tim?

[Tim McMahon]

It was like the training staff for the year. The medical staff of the year.

[Tim Bontemps]

Yeah.

[Tim McMahon]

Oh, my goodness. It was the New York Knicks. Oh, my gosh. Who's. Who's running that? Oh, I believe a guy I know.

[Tim Bontemps]

This guy is the guy who's the head trainer for the Knicks.

[Tim McMahon]

He was in Dallas for like two decades.

[Tim Bontemps]

He was. What happened to him, Tim?

[Tim McMahon]

I don't know. It's a joke to bring that up now, but he's done a heck of a job in New York. That's a very healthy team. They nursed Brunson back from injury. Heather Mao, also in Dallas for a long time right there with him. I mean, great job by that Knicks health and performance group. That that is a healthy team. Got Mitchell Robinson back.

[Tim Bontemps]

Can we get to the conference finals now?

[Tim McMahon]

Can we get ahead saying like it was a big factor in the conference finals last year and here they are ready to roll, baby.

[Tim Bontemps]

Yeah, they're ready to roll. Yeah.

[Brian Windhorst]

Well, I think you said this a couple days ago, Bon Thomas, which I definitely agree with and have been talking about, which is that the wings that the Knicks have invested in to beat the Celtics, which did beat the Celtics, also are very useful against other teams such as the pacers.

[Tim McMahon]

Yeah, Elite 3 and D wings tend to be useful as a whole.

[Tim Bontemps]

Yeah.

[Brian Windhorst]

I mean, the Cavs did not have.

[Tim Bontemps]

The Knicks matched up pretty well with Indiana last year. I think they match up better with Indiana this year. And look, last year they went into the series without Julius Randle and they ended it with Jalen Brunson, OG Anunoby completely out of the mix. And Mitchell Robinson barely played. Right.

[Brian Windhorst]

So Mitchell Robinson was very, was damaged by then.

[Tim Bontemps]

I mean, he played, he played part of the first game, never played again. So they were down a ton of bodies last year and it still went seven games. Now I think Indiana's better than they were last year, but this Nick team I think is better than it was last year. And if you look at the way these teams line up, Mikhail Bridges on Tyrese Alberton is probably about as good of a matchup for him as you can find in the league. Yeah, Gojan and Obi has guarded Pascal Siakam a trillion times in their time together in Toronto in practices, knows all of his stuff. They know each other intimately. That's a pretty decent matchup both ways. I think Miles Turner and Carl Towns is a very interesting matchup because they do a lot of similar things. And for Carl's defensive issues, the one thing he is decent at is, is getting out on the floor and moving his feet some on the perimeter. And Miles Turner is never going to roll to the basket. He's going to pop all the time. And so I do think that's an okay matchup for Carl, despite the fact that Miles has had a phenomenal playoffs.

[Tim McMahon]

And I think, well, and Spix, remote as we know Cat to be the self proclaimed greatest shooting big man of all time, can certainly mitigate Miles Turner's rim protection by pulling him 30ft from the hoop in a lot of cases.

[Tim Bontemps]

And the other thing that I think could really end up deciding this series is last year Nemhardt, who's a terrific player, got destroyed by Jalen Brunson in this matchup.

[Tim McMahon]

That's Interesting.

[Tim Bontemps]

And if Jalen Brunson can win that matchup again like he did last year, I think the Knicks are going to the finals.

[Tim McMahon]

And this is, it's, it's such a fascinating series for so many reasons. The history is huge. I mean, you gotta love it. Reggie Miller calling this on tnt. Are you kidding me?

[Tim Bontemps]

It's gonna be great.

[Tim McMahon]

I don't think he'll be walking back to the hotel by himself in the.

[Brian Windhorst]

Last, in the last TNT broadcasts.

[Tim McMahon]

Yes, but just from this is a very kind of mav centric, Dallas centric point of view. This is the superstar point guard that Rick Carlisle didn't believe in against the one that he has believed in. And again you go back to like, forget about Rick benching Brunson in game seven, the last game Rick coached in Dallas. The Mavericks tried to trade Brunson and a couple of picks to get Halliburton in that draft. Rick is always, always, always coveted Halliburton. Bob Vulgaris had him as the number one player in that draft. That's an opinion that's aged relatively well. Rick got him as soon as he could in Indiana and has done a phenomenal job maximizing, obviously, look, the Mavericks, Rick, a bunch of people were wrong about Brunson. Nobody expected Brunson become this. Brunson doesn't want to deal with this like revenge versus Rick thing. He didn't want to deal with the last year when I brought it up. But it's a fascinating little subplot.

[Tim Bontemps]

No question, no question. Just the battle between those two guys.

[Tim McMahon]

Like, you know, and they're not guarding each other. But no, hey, whoever plays better is going to have a really.

[Brian Windhorst]

But these.

[Tim Bontemps]

One of those two guys is leading their team to the NBA Finals like in two weeks. One of those guys is going to be the face of their team going into the finals, very possibly against Shea, another point guard. And you know, like that's. There's always a lot on the line when you're talking about the conference finals. But for two teams that haven't been there in a very long time, they want back to back years. Pacers 2000, Knicks in 99. The two teams like we talked about the other day, they've played more games against each other in the playoffs over the last 32 years than any other teams in the league. This is probably going to be another super long series they played last year. Like, it's just, it's, it should be an awesome, awesome series. And there's just a ton of interesting little tactical wrinkles on both sides throughout up to and including the fact the Knicks are going to play their seven guys, maybe a little campaign sprinkled in and the pacers are going 10, 11 deep and they're going to play the all bench unit and like Rick is going to be committed to playing fast and running up and down and you know which side of that's going to win out. Like it's, it's just, it's a really fascinating matchup all around.

[Brian Windhorst]

Yeah, Brunson's Brunson is having historic playoff run here and Brunson and Halliburton both have had great clutch performances and boy potential for really interesting stuff down some end of some games because you know Brunson is supremely confident and when Halliburton gets going it feels like every shot goes in. You know that that shot is is janky looking at times but man, when it gets going it just goes in.

[Tim McMahon]

You know what? I'm going to petition the NBA. Papa Halberton's got to be allowed to sit courtside at msg. If he's willing to sit courtside at MSG wearing a Hallberton jersey, he listen.

[Brian Windhorst]

They love back in the building, Brunson's dad said courtside every game.

[Tim McMahon]

I'm telling you, they give him a seat on the bench. Lord have mercy. Talk about favoritism. More Hoop Collective podcast after this.

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[Brian Windhorst]

So we had some general managers hold end of season press conferences in the last couple of days and they were sure they were premature. I don't think Brad Stevens and Kobe Altman were planning on doing that in mid May. Two teams that had very disappointing ends of the season and two teams that have some interesting questions. Koby Altman, the Cavs team president, he didn't promise anything because obviously things changed, but he basically made it clear he wants to keep his core together. But what was most interesting is that he basically. And he didn't. Basically he admitted he's like, people are going to, people are going to think that we're a regular season team. And you know, like typically when you call a team a regular season team, even if it's true, people get their backs up. Oh, you know, that's, that's a, that's an insult. And Kobe Altman was sitting there saying, call us like it is. We've had great regular seasons the last couple of years, including a 64 win season and we haven't been able to get past the second round. And he's like, we got to change the narrative. We got to deal with that.

[Tim Bontemps]

And he, yeah, can I read the quote? Because I thought it was a great quote. Yeah, I think we can all agree that coming into the season no one predicted us to be the 1 seed. I don't think anyone had 64 wins because we were so good. We recreated the expectation of Finals think everyone in here saw potential champions, which is a new space for us. We recreated that expectation and now we have to live with that. I think it's a space we want to live in and take that into the playoffs next year. Knowing that we're going to have to change that narrative, knowing that we're, that we have to get over the hump, which by the way, as you said, is 1,000% accurate. And I think exactly the kind of message that the Cavs should be sending, like they just had a great season, they had a very disappointing end. Shouldn't be like, let's, it's all good, it's all going to be fine. Like, the way to embrace that or the way to get past that is to embrace the challenge of it and meet it head on. And I was impressed with how obviously it's not the time for Kobe to be that. He wanted to be doing that, but I thought he set the right tone for what's a very important summer for them on a lot of levels.

[Tim McMahon]

I think it sounds a lot like what the TWT part of the hoop collective had been saying, the two wise Tims part and. Oh, a certain. A certain Northeast Ohio.

[Tim Bontemps]

This guy's got so many monikers. Oh, man, it's amazing.

[Brian Windhorst]

Anybody I've ever heard anybody call you Wise. A lot of.

[Tim McMahon]

Usually it's followed.

[Brian Windhorst]

Some of them come. Something I was gonna say, why is.

[Tim McMahon]

It that that's an acronym we can't do on Disney?

[Brian Windhorst]

Well, I have to say, oh, man, I. I really did find a lot of what Kobe said to be. I was like. I was nodding with it. I was like, I feel that's all accurate.

[Tim McMahon]

And. And I. And I love. I love the reality of it, and I love the. It's a com. It's a really nice little blend of belief in his core that he stuck by last year when a lot of people, including us, were saying, break it up, you know, trade one of the bigs, whatever, maybe even Garland. Okay. It's a. It's a combination of belief in your core and challenging them. And I like that.

[Tim Bontemps]

Well, and by the way, this was an even more interesting quote, one he had about Evan Mobley and another one that I thought was spot on. Quote, we're going to go as a franchise, as Evan is going to go, and we've had that conversation with Evan in the playoffs. We need more. We need more than 13 field goal attempts per game. That's new for Evan. There's another jump. So to that point, Kenny's going to be able to implement his offseason program, which we're very excited about. We're going to see some internal growth there. And we think we have one of the best big men in the game in Evan Mobley. And we have obviously said for years that even after the Donovan Mitchell trade, you're not winning a title if Donovan Mitchell is your best player. You could win a title if the Evan Mobley that is in there becomes a top five or ten player in the league. And Donovan Mitchell's your second best player, and we saw him take 1A, 1B. Well, sure, but Evan Mobley has. Evan Mobley as a big. With the skills he has. Has a ceiling that Donovan Mitchell's not getting to, and you saw some flashes of that this year. You also saw times when he would sort of fade away on offense. And obviously one defensive player of the year, it's a terrific young player, but again, I think that's the right tone for him to set to like. It's a big summer for the Cavs on a lot of levels. They had a great season at a very disappointing ending at the same exact ending as last year. But there are things for them to jump off from. And while they've got some real decisions to make this summer, they got to bring back Ty Jerome. How are they going to manage the roster? They're going to keep the four guys together. Like, what are they going to do? Evan Mobley taking a huge step. His priority one and priority two I think is, oh, hey guys, if we want to take a step forward, there's things we got to do better and differently than we did in the past. And I thought I'm saying both those things and the way he did was really good.

[Brian Windhorst]

Yeah, I found myself agreeing with a lot of what he said. He also said Evan Mobley is 23 years old. He is not done growing and we're going to lean into the fact that he's going to keep getting better. And he also said, you know, because a lot of people, especially the fans in Cleveland, thought the Cavs were very soft. Oh, and basically what Kobe said, and I happen to agree with him, is that there's a difference between being physically soft and mentally soft. And he basically said we thought he thought they were mentally soft, but that doesn't mean they were physically soft.

[Tim McMahon]

And which one's more insulting? I'm not even sure.

[Brian Windhorst]

I'm just saying, like, there's a lot of truth bombs in this. And so I don't know if they're going to be able to fix it, but I do think that their eyes are wide open as to what they've got and they also are a second apron team. So it's not like if they even thought that they could needed to make massive changes that it would be even simple. As for Brad Stevens, I thought Brad Stevens also was somewhat frank. He didn't have. He wasn't really in position to lay out. Kobe pretty much laid out the way he sees the off season going, including.

[Tim McMahon]

It'S a lot easier to lay out. Hey, we're going to keep our core together than hey, who's, here's who we're going to boot. That helps title a year.

[Tim Bontemps]

Here's here's the. This was Brad Stevens opening statement. There's a couple sentences in. I think it sums up the entire situation in Boston. Quote, I know there will be a lot of questions about what's next, but I'll probably talk more about that at, at the draft time. And we have a better idea after meeting with all the key stakeholders and everybody else about what the next steps might be, that sums up where Boston is at. They're in the process of being sold. They have massive questions like that's that the, the process is finished, final being finalized. To be clear, they're going to be sold.

[Tim McMahon]

Yeah.

[Tim Bontemps]

And so you have a enormously expensive team that was going to have a $500 million payroll with the best player, very unfortunately have a guitar and Achilles, and they're clearly not anymore. Okay.

[Tim McMahon]

Well.

[Tim Bontemps]

It'S at the beginning of a very long recovery process.

[Brian Windhorst]

Sorry, sorry, I'm loopy. It's late.

[Tim McMahon]

Sorry. Doctor.

[Tim Bontemps]

Yes. But, you know, look, what seems very clear to me is, I would say it seems, just looking at it logically, it's extremely unlikely that this Celtics team is going to look the same as it did this year, next year. And the question is, by the draft, which is going to be a natural time for a lot of these things to happen, how much different is it going to look?

[Tim McMahon]

Well, and, and that's the exact point that I was going to make when he says, you know, talk about it, you know, at the draft, around the draft. The draft is essentially a trade deadline of sorts. Right. There's a lot. Obviously, there's traits flying all around the league. And so that's an opportunity. I'm sure he has a very strong idea of potential deals that could happen. I mean, it's not like, you know, we hadn't had discussions with other people. It's not like they haven't been mapping this out for a while.

[Tim Bontemps]

Can I push back on that slightly? I, I would say. I would say we have talked about the idea of Boston saving some money this year. Right. We never talked about the things that I think are potentially on the table after this injury last week. And like that that was such a seismic event that while, yes, you've thought about this to some degree, like it.

[Tim McMahon]

Could be a different franchise recess.

[Tim Bontemps]

You're having conversations now that you never imagined.

[Brian Windhorst]

Well, a week ago you were having. What's your. What's on the table is. What's on the table is a gap year.

[Tim McMahon]

Yeah.

[Brian Windhorst]

But one other thing that he said, you know, Ramona Shelburne reported after the season Ended that Jaylen Brown has been dealing with a partially torn meniscus. And Brad Stevens confirmed that that was true. But he said he has been dealing with it for a while and successfully managing it and the knee is stable and that they're hoping after a few weeks rest that he'll be in good shape. He, he, he never talked about surgery or no surgery, but his implication was he didn't need surgery. Which is relevant to you thinking about this? Because if Jalen, if Jalen needs a convalescence, that's good, you know that. But, but really what you're talking about.

[Tim McMahon]

I don't know what that word means, but it does not sound good.

[Brian Windhorst]

What you're, what you're talking about, bontemps, is whether or not they would let the old guys go either by trader and free agency and have a gap year. That's what we're talking about here, right? That's what we're brushing against.

[Tim Bontemps]

Like, look, I mean, you could, you could make an argument, I think you can make a credible argument that the right thing for Boston to do would be to trade all four of its starters this year in the next two months and get a ton of young players and drafts.

[Brian Windhorst]

I'd like to hear that credible argument because.

[Tim Bontemps]

Okay, the argument is. The argument is this. The argument is this. You've got Chris Esporzingis is going to the last year of his deal, who's in his early 30s. You got Drew Holiday, who is in his mid-30s and is expensive. You've got Derek White, who is 31, who will be 33 when Jason Tatum is ready to be in the playoffs again and will never have higher value than he's going to have now. And you could get an absolute metric ton for Jalen Brown. And if you do those moves, you set yourself up to potentially be ready. And I'm not saying you trade them all for just like 19 year old players, but you reorient the team so that in a year when Jason Tatum is ready to go in the fall of 2026, you have a younger core around him that you then try to contend for the next several years. Because this Celtic team is built to win right now. And in a couple of years, the main keystone guys they have are going to be into their mid-30s. Now, I'm not saying they're going to trade everybody. I'm not saying they necessarily should trade everybody. I'm not saying they should just get rid of all of them and blow the team up and start over. But this Jason Tatum injury like I said it creates questions about what this team should do that I never contemplated thinking about. And I don't think the Celtics did because it just completely. You have to look at it like the whole timeline of the franchise has shifted. So I think it's something you have to at least consider.

[Brian Windhorst]

I would not trade Jalen Brown and I would not trade Derek White. You could get. You could have me have conversation. You know, also letting Al Horford walk as part of that. What you're talking. I would listen on the other situations.

[Tim Bontemps]

Because, I mean, that's. I mean, yeah. I mean, well, sure, then in that sense, you're not doing anything different at all than before the injury, which, I mean, sure, you can argue that. Like, I'm not saying it's wrong, but, you know, like I said, I love Derek White. He's one of my favorite players in the league. Like, he's been.

[Brian Windhorst]

And I know an incredible player. I know this group's a championship group, so.

[Tim Bontemps]

But you're also talking about a group that you. Is pretty much on hold for 18 months, if you're being realistic about it. So that's an eternity in the NBA.

[Brian Windhorst]

Well, you know, the thing about it is. I think. I do think it's interesting. Let's keep in mind that while the new owner is going to have the purse strings, Wick Ruzbach is still the governor. So, you know, it also might depend on.

[Tim Bontemps]

Well, well, look, and if. If you're gonna. If you're also gonna pick a year to get out of the tax and reset things for a team that's been very expensive, it is headed to repeater tax land this year also. Wouldn't be the worst time to think about doing that either.

[Brian Windhorst]

McMahon's come back from his emergency pause.

[Tim McMahon]

Well, we don't need to advertise.

[Brian Windhorst]

All right, listen, let me tell you what the situation is, okay? The Git producers, the get up producers, are already awake. They're already texting me. I haven't gone to bed yet. Do you understand what I'm saying? Are you following me?

[Tim Bontemps]

They're already awake following Windy Sleep updates.

[Brian Windhorst]

They're all excited. They just woke up. They found out the score. They're watching highlights. They're like, let's talk about the game. I'm talking with them like, I haven't gone to bed yet. So this is where we have to end this. Thank you for watching to the who watching and listening to who collective. Thank you to Bontems. Thank you to McMahon. Thank you to Jackson, who I now think I'll text when I get up in, like four hours, and he'll still be working, so. Thank you. I can't do this any. I can't do this much longer. I just. I'm getting too.

[Tim McMahon]

Wendy, go back to the buzz cut. You know, get like 20 minutes extra sleep every time you get away.

[Brian Windhorst]

What do you think? So we have a different hairdo today because we had hair and makeup here today because Michael Malone needed special treatment. They did something different. Do you think it's like. It's a lot going on here. Yeah.

[Tim Bontemps]

The coif still exists.

[Tim McMahon]

I didn't get the hair and makeup. I just. I'm naturally this handsome.

[Brian Windhorst]

Do your thing.

[Tim McMahon]

Oh, wait. You want to go to bed?

[Brian Windhorst]

Yes.

[Tim McMahon]

Adios, amigo. You want me to sing you a lullaby?

[Brian Windhorst]

Yes. I don't even need it.

[Tim McMahon]

Adios, amigo. Adios, my friends.