Wemby Challenged, Cavs Getting Healthy, Latest on Ja & Surprising Jazz

Summary

Podcast Summary — Brian Windhorst & The Hoop Collective

Episode: "Wemby Challenged, Cavs Getting Healthy, Latest on Ja & Surprising Jazz"
Date: November 5, 2025
Featured: Brian Windhorst, Tim Bontemps, Ben McMahon (ESPN NBA Insiders)

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Episode Overview

This episode dives into major early-season NBA storylines, including Victor Wembanyama facing new defensive challenges, the Lakers’ surprising start amid injuries, the Cleveland Cavaliers getting players back, evolving drama with Ja Morant and the Grizzlies, the surging Houston Rockets, and the Utah Jazz’s unexpected form. The hosts bring in informed stats, inside perspectives, and plenty of lively banter.

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Key Discussion Points and Insights

1. Lakers’ Hot Start Despite Missing Stars

00:38–06:55

• Lakers are 6-2 despite no LeBron, and Luka missing half the games.

• Tim Bontemps marvels at their resilience:

  “Those are the kind of games that could be the difference between the Lakers being second and third, sixth and seventh, fourth and fifth, whatever spot you are in the West. Like, that could be the difference between home court advantage in the first round or making the play-in or whatever.” (05:32 — Tim Bontemps)

• Lakers had six players score at least 25 points over two games, an NBA first.

• Emphasis on the Doug Moe Standings:

  "You take the number of road wins and you subtract the number of home losses and whatever that number is, ideally the more plus the better.” (04:56 — Brian Windhorst)

• Lakers currently at +2, showcasing early road strength.

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2. Wembanyama’s First Major Defensive Test & Spurs’ Adjustments

06:55–14:40

• Wemby coming off his toughest game:

  • 9 points, 4–14 shooting, and 6 turnovers vs. Suns.
  • Suns defended him with wing players rather than bigs, aggressively doubling—especially from the blind side.

    “...they didn’t let him get to his spot...he’s catching it uncomfortably above the elbow...and then there’s an immediate double team....That’s probably going to be years of work in the weight room down the road for him.” (08:59 — Ben McMahon)

• Spurs’ lack of shooting means opponents can double without risk.

  “I’m fine with a lot of these guys on this, on the Spurs being left open for threes until they prove they’re going to knock these shots down. They went 10 for 41 from three in that game.” (12:38 — Tim Bontemps)

• Spurs guards thin due to injuries (notably Dylan Harper out with calf strain), impacting playmaking around Wemby.

• Devin Vassell’s shooting struggles (0/6 3PT), overall team frustration is rising.

• Compliments to Suns’ new coach Jordan Knott for innovative game plan.

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3. Cavs’ Injury Woes and Offensive Reboot

16:42–22:48

• Darius Garland set to return; Cavs have slipped from #1 in offense last year to 26th due to injuries (missing Garland, Strus, Allen, Ty Jerome, Lonzo playing limited minutes).
• Donovan Mitchell has kept them afloat—shooting 44% from three, high volume, saving games.
• Evan Mobley’s role has expanded but less efficient: his shot mix is off (33% from 25+ ft, only 27% at the rim; dunks way down).

  “I’m all for Evan Mobley shooting threes... But Evan Mobley’s taken, at this point, somewhere around 30% of his shots from 5 to 15ft, 27% of his shots from 5ft and in, and 33%...from more than 25ft. That... can’t be the case.” (19:35 — Tim Bontemps)

• Roster health is an ongoing concern, particularly with Lonzo and Garland needing to be managed.

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4. Surprising Early Season Standings and Eastern Conference State

22:48–24:54

• Chicago Bulls and Cleveland atop the East (unexpected).
• Atlanta and Orlando “underachieving,” while Detroit is emerging as a positive surprise.
• Detroit’s Jalen Duren singled out:

  “Man does he fit well with Cade Cunningham and the chemistry between those guys is awesome. And I just love the, the, the power and the force that Duren plays with.” (24:54 — Ben McMahon)

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5. Rockets’ Offensive Explosion & Chemistry

25:26–30:53

• Houston Rockets have the league’s #1 offense and jumped from 21st to 1st in 3PT %—with bigs contributing.

• Kevin Durant’s (KD) arrival gave anticipated boost, but development of Alperen Sengun and Amen Thompson is equally key:

  “Not only does the spacing work with those two guys, they have developed phenomenal chemistry ... they both might have a chance to be an All-Star this year in addition to KD.” (26:20 — Ben McMahon)

• Amen Thompson playing point guard with Fred VanVleet out; Sengun handling major facilitation duties.

• Rockets dominate offensive rebounds (#1) and free throw attempts.

• Defense has regressed without key veterans like Fred VanVleet and Dylan Brooks (traded for KD).

• Rockets vs. Spurs looming as a major test for both Wemby and Houston’s bigs.

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6. Ja Morant & Grizzlies Turmoil

30:53–38:41

• Ja returned after suspension but remains “mum”—not making peace with head coach Thomas A. Salo after a public confrontation.

  “Ja gets in this thing where either you’re a cheerleader or you’re the enemy. And it’s not the media’s job to be a cheerleader .... As long as Ja Morant does not want to take any accountability, you’ve got issues.” (32:06 — Ben McMahon)

• Referenced Salo’s public philosophy: confront difficult behavior directly, but that can be risky with NBA stars.

• Ja’s performance and joy for the game appear diminished since infamous Denver club incident.

  “He used to just be as electric as any player in the league ... Memphis fell in love with those two things.” (36:27 — Ben McMahon)

• Tim Bontemps likens the mood to early end-of-era Derrick Rose in Chicago.

  “Feels like the end of Derrick Rose in Chicago is what it feels like many different ways.” (38:41 — Tim Bontemps)

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7. Utah Jazz: Surprises & Standouts

38:46–44:22

• Jazz beat the Celtics in Boston, showing a unique lineup style (“Wasatch front line”).

• Lowry Markkanen is averaging 31 points and has emerged as a star:

  “Post Euro Basket Larry Markkanen is a different beast.” (39:53 — Ben McMahon)

• Keonte George (2nd-year guard) taking a leap:

  • 23 points, 8 assists per game, but only 27% from three.
  • Making up for it by attacking the rim, averaging nearly 10 free throws a game (91% FT).

    “If he could continue to be that good and that able to get to the rim and finish and get to the line, like the shooting being questionable isn't going to matter as much if he’s going to be a consistent weapon...” (41:05 — Tim Bontemps)

• Will Hardy’s “no free minutes” coaching style credited for George’s progress.

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8. Other Notables: Wizards Young Core & Celtics’ Weakness

44:22–46:42

• Wizards’ Keyshawn George playing well in his second year; not related to Jazz’s Keonte George.
• Alex Sarr making strides as a rim protector.
• Boston Celtics are dead last in free throw attempts, exposing a potential weakness in big games.

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9. Pelicans Injury Woes and Tough Stretch

46:46–48:55

• Zion Williamson injured again (hamstring), no clear timetable for return.

  “When it comes to Zion’s hamstring, I, I mean I respect that they announced seven to ten days. Nobody has any clue here.” (47:04 — Brian Windhorst)

• Pelicans have only one winnable game (vs. Charlotte), then a brutal schedule—team perilously close to falling out in the West.

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Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments

• On Wemby’s defense:

  "They didn’t let him get to his spot. He’s catching it uncomfortably above the elbow, or outside of the paint. And then there’s an immediate double team." (08:59 — Ben McMahon)

• On Cavs' diminished paint presence:

  “Evan Mobley's taken... 27% of his shots from 5ft and in, and 33% of his shots from more than 25ft. That... can't be the case.” (19:35 — Tim Bontemps)

• On Ja Morant's mentality:

  “As long as Ja Morant does not want to take any accountability, you’ve got issues.” (32:06 — Ben McMahon)

• On Rockets' new dynamic duo:

  “Not only does the spacing work with those two guys, they have developed phenomenal chemistry and… might have a chance to be an All Star this year in addition to KD.” (26:20 — Ben McMahon)

• On the Celtics’ struggle drawing fouls:

  “Boston has never been a team that's been particularly good at getting to the foul line. They are dead last in the league. 18.1 free throw attempts per game.” (43:06 — Tim Bontemps)

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Key Timestamps

• 00:38: Lakers winning despite missing LeBron & Luka
• 03:50: Lakers’ NBA-record six players with 25+ in two games
• 07:06: Wemby’s struggles; Suns’ innovative defense
• 11:13: Spurs’ three-point shooting gap exploited
• 17:54: Cavs offense plummets amid injuries
• 19:35: Evan Mobley’s shot profile out of balance
• 26:08: Rockets shoot to #1 offense; Sengun/Thompson breakthrough
• 32:06: Ja Morant’s attitude and team implications
• 39:53: Markkanen goes off for Jazz; Keonte George’s leap
• 44:22: Wizards’ young core improvement
• 46:46: Pelicans’ Zion injury and brutal schedule

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Summary

This episode offered rich early-season NBA analysis—exploring fresh tactical wrinkles (Wemby’s new defensive coverage), surprising team leaps (Lakers, Rockets, Jazz, Pistons), and the harsh realities of health (Cavs, Pelicans). Frequent references to advanced stats, coaching philosophy, and candid discussions about player personalities (especially Ja Morant) provided both color and clarity. The hosts’ banter, memorable lines, and insider anecdotes make this essential listening for NBA fans tracking the season’s early contours.

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For more, listen to Brian Windhorst & The Hoop Collective wherever you get your podcasts!

Transcript

[Podcast Sponsor/Announcer]

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[Brian Windhorst]

Hello. Welcome to the who Collective podcast. We talk about the NBA, which we are doing on Tuesday evening. Joining us from New York City, where I think he's got big plans for the rest of this week. I don't remember where he's going, but that's always what I always say.

[Tim Bontemps]

Tim Bontemp going to see Wolves Knicks on Wednesday when I think Anthony Edwards has a good chance of making his return from his hamstring injury. And more importantly, I'm glad that we've gotten the podcast started because I wish people could have seen our guy, Ben McMahon trying desperately to get his equipment to work in Los Angeles on remote, trying to cover games, traveling around the country, trying to get on the podcast. He desperately needed the IT department. The IT department is far away and it was, it was a struggle, but.

[Brian Windhorst]

We made it much respect. Tim. Tim McMahon was in Houston last night, saw the Mavericks go down to the Houston Rockets on this Tuesday night or Monday night and then Tuesday after this podcast he's going to go see the Clippers play. And then tomorrow a big game, a surprisingly big game. And it's on ESPN between the number two and number three teams in the Western Conference. When the spurs visit the lakers, it's Ben McMahon.

[Ben McMahon]

Howdy, partners. Listen, you know my policy. I do not really operate well with those single digit AM flights. Not only that, but with this whole TSA situation, I was warned. The Houston airports are a mess. I ended up getting through security in two minutes. But I, I arrived. I know, but I arrive with plenty of time to spare. So the 6am wake up call and band McMahon ended up leaving a microphone in Houston. I'm a mess.

[Brian Windhorst]

Let's, let's. All right, well, you'll be back in Houston later this year. You can get it at a later time and we'll limb through.

[Tim Bontemps]

We'll make it work. We'll make it work.

[Brian Windhorst]

Well, I want to start right there in LA tomorrow night. We're obviously not going to know how. Tonight's tonight.

[Tim Bontemps]

Tonight, tonight for Wednesday night.

[Brian Windhorst]

That's true. Wednesday night. The Lakers are coming off a couple of pretty good wins, including going up to Portland on the second night of a back to back. No Luca, he was protecting that leg injury. No Austin Reeves who was dealing with his groin injury that just popped up. No LeBron. Of course they had some other guys who were with him.

[Tim Bontemps]

No problem because they had Deandre Ayton Buddy, who's getting $25 million from the Portland Trail Blazers and put up 29 and 10 to beat the Blazers on the second night of a back to back with all those three guys out. That is a brutal loss for Portland, a team that has had a decent start. And it is an awesome win for the Lakers who have had a fantastic first couple of weeks of the season with LeBron not playing at all and with Luca missing several games. Been remarkable, frankly.

[Ben McMahon]

Wow, Han Tim's wearing the Lakers girl uniform.

[Tim Bontemps]

Hey, the lake when I praise them when they're good. They've had a great couple weeks.

[Brian Windhorst]

Was it Saturday and Monday or Sunday and Monday? Anyway, in those two games, Sunday and Monday, Lakers had six different players score at least 25 points.

[Ben McMahon]

Nick Smith Jr. On a two way deal.

[Brian Windhorst]

So including a two way guy, Nick Smith Jr. By the way, that's never happened before in NBA history.

[Ben McMahon]

That's interesting.

[Brian Windhorst]

In two games.

[Tim Bontemps]

No kidding.

[Brian Windhorst]

Six different players.

[Tim Bontemps]

I mean, I guess that makes sense. Six different guys in two games is pretty hard. That's. That is 25.

[Brian Windhorst]

That's a lot of points.

[Tim Bontemps]

No, it's a lot.

[Brian Windhorst]

Even by today's standards.

[Tim Bontemps]

No, for sure that's a lot.

[Brian Windhorst]

And I think what's, I would almost say what's been remarkable for the Lakers. And you know, we're still in small sample size theater here. Lakers have only played eight games, although I think they've played the most games in the league. They're seventh in the league in offense with Luka having missed four games and LeBron not playing at all. And they are now 3 and 1 without Luka. They're also 40 on the road and you know, and that this brings up sort of the George Carl standings that you know. You know, that are. I find are useful. I think maybe George Carl's took Doug from the Doug.

[Tim Bontemps]

The Doug Moe standings is what they are.

[Brian Windhorst]

Yeah, right. So especially earlier in the season, it's when, when team schedules are, you know.

[Tim Bontemps]

Might want to explain the Doug Mo standings.

[Brian Windhorst]

Yes. So you take the number of road wins and you subtract the number of home losses and whatever that number is, ideally the more plus the better.

[Tim Bontemps]

That's a positive number. You're going to be A good team because it means you're a good road team and you're a good home team. That's the right.

[Brian Windhorst]

And the Lakers are already at plus two, which is very good because they're 4. 0 on the road. I'm not sure anybody else. So the Thunder have three road wins. I'm not sure anybody else in the league has three.

[Tim Bontemps]

If you had said the Lakers were going to be six and two with no LeBron, with Luca missing, I think four or five games, I guess he's played four games so far, so missing half the games and they're going to be 6 and 2. The Lakers would have been happy to be 4 and 4 if you told them that Luca was going to miss the first half, the first eight games and LeBron wasn't going to play. So, yeah, like we talked about it going back to the start of the summer, every game you can gain in the west in particular is going to be massive. And like that game when Austin Reeves had 51, I think, in Sacramento to win that game against the Kings. DeAndre winning this game Monday night against his. The team that's still paying him three quarters of his salary this year. Like, those are the. Those are the kind of games that could be the difference between the Lakers being second and third, sixth and seventh, fourth and fifth, whatever spot you are in the West. Like, that could be the difference between home court advantage in the first round or making the play. It makes. Avoiding the playing or whatever. So, like, it's just massive. It's been a massive start and it sets up, like you said, Brian, like, obviously Victor in L. A was always going to be a juicy game, but the spurs, despite their dud against the Suns the other night and one of the stranger box scores of the season so far, there's going to be a lot of interest around this game and it should be a lot of fun to see. To see Luka and Wemby go head to head.

[Brian Windhorst]

Yeah. So McMahon, you know, I also want to see. Wembanyama is coming off of his worst game of the season. He had nine. Just, I think was nine points.

[Tim Bontemps]

Nine points on four or 14 shooting.

[Brian Windhorst]

Yeah. And the Suns used an interesting defense in that game. Now, Victor has obviously been a good player for most of his life, and I'm sure he's seen a lot of defenses. I'm sure he's even seen similar to what the Suns did against him in the NBA. But the Suns did do something that I wouldn't be surprised to see. Teams, especially teams that are smaller and the Lakers are a smaller team relative to their. They don't have great depth at center. What the Suns did in that game is first off, they started out by guarding him. His initial defender was Royce o'. Neill. Now different guys defended him during the game, but his primary defender was Rice o', Neill, who's obviously a wing. And the other thing that they did was that they, if there was off ball screening, like if they were trying to create a matchup for Victor, the Suns let the screen happen and they just switched. Even if that meant Grayson Allen was on him or even if it was a guard, like they didn't care. What they didn't want was Victor to make an easy catch. They wanted to flip, fight Victor on the catch. They know that he's going to be taller than everybody, but they wanted to fight him for position. They didn't want him to get anything easy. And then they aggressively brought double teams and specifically from his blind side so that he wouldn't necessarily know where they were coming from. This is not unheard of basketball. But the idea of not playing your absolute tallest player on Victor and just focusing on not letting him get to the spot he wants to get to had some short term success. I'm sure JJ Redick and the Lakers watch that film and whether or not they do it for the full time that the Sun's prepared is yet to be seen. But I would suspect they take some things and, and have throw, throw Victor some of those looks.

[Ben McMahon]

Yeah, and look, you, you nailed it as far as they didn't let him get to his spot. And we talked, you know, especially after that game in Dallas when he just absolutely dominated, we talked about the strength that he's added, you know, the, the core strength, the ability to create contact and, you know, not just finish through it, but create an advantage with that. What he was not able to do though was get deep post position. So he's catching it uncomfortably above the elbow or, you know, outside of, of the paint. And then there's an immediate double team, whereas, you know, he's not catching it with a deep seal where he can just turn around and go finish. So, you know, that's something that's probably going to be years of work in the weight room down the road for him to just be able to say, okay, you want to put a little guy on me, I'm going to get exactly where I want to go. Just catch the ball and turn around and finish strong. And you know, if you're going to play him that way, you got to have somebody that you can hide a center on. Harrison Barnes has had a really good NBA career right now. He's a guy that you can hide a center on. And the third thing here is the guard play. Stefan Castle is rain rookie of the year, off to an amazing start. He's not necessarily a run the team type of point guard. You know, he's a guy who, he's going to score a lot off of his, his athleticism, you know, his ability to get out and transition, his ability to drive. But he's not going to be able to take advantage of a defense necessarily that's selling out to stop Victor and Minyama in a way that you would hope a veteran point guard like de' Aaron Fox can. You know, Dear and Fox is close. They haven't put an injury report out for tomorrow, I don't think, or for Wednesday night. I don't think we'll see him quite yet. But his, his return is that much more important. Not only because I think you're going to see a lot of this style of defense on Wimy moving forward, but also Dylan Harper strained his calf and is going to be out for a little while. You know, a guy who got off to a spectacular start as number two overall pick. He's going to be out week. So suddenly we went from how can they play all these guards to man, boy, they're, they're, they're pretty thin in the back court until Fox gets back.

[Brian Windhorst]

Yeah. The spurs are also a middle of the pack to lower middle of the pack three point shooting team thus far, partially because Victor is attacking the paint more, which is good.

[Tim Bontemps]

But Victor, but Victor's not going to help them a ton in that.

[Brian Windhorst]

Right. But, but what you're worried about with the double teams is giving up swing threes.

[Tim Bontemps]

That's right.

[Brian Windhorst]

Have not.

[Tim Bontemps]

They don't have a lot of shooting.

[Brian Windhorst]

They haven't demonstrated they can punish you that way. So.

[Tim Bontemps]

And dear and Fox isn't fixing that either, you know. Well, and I mean in that game, in that game Sunday, I do think it's worth pointing out too that Victor got in early foul trouble and I think that got him off his game a little bit. And again, I think, you know, we saw it in the game against the Pelicans. They did win the game, but Zion had some success going right at Victor down the stretch of the game. Victor fouled out of that game in overtime and what became a win for the spurs and you know, yeah, like look, he's definitely gotten bigger and stronger and more physical and he's attacking the paint, which has been great to see, but you know, he's still a tall, thin guy and getting up into his body and being physical with him in his lower half is going to be something that, you know, like you said, it's not a revolutionary strategy, but it was an effective one. And I'm sure especially with the way the Lakers team is built, you know, they've got a decent number of wing sized guys to throw at a guy like Victor. It's probably better than putting DeAndre Ayton on him instead of having one of those guys on him and deandre Ayton back towards the rim or Jackson Hayes back towards the rim. It's probably the most effective way to try to handle him. And also to your point, I'm fine with a lot of these guys on this, on the spurs being left open for threes until they prove they're going to knock these shots down. They went 10 for 41 from three in that game. Like, you know, let's see these guys hit shots.

[Ben McMahon]

The best shooter they have is Devin vassell and he was 0 of 6 from 3 point range in that game. And it wasn't just for Wimby. It's like 4:14, obviously that's rough, only nine points, but he had six turnovers so, you know, and again you could sense the frustration just growing and growing and growing to the point where he's trying to force things and, and it's leading to turnover. So. But I'll be honest with you, they still scored 118 points in that game. The shocking thing to me is they gave up 130 points to the Phoenix Suns.

[Tim Bontemps]

And listen, I mean that box score, that box score from soup to nuts is one of the weirdest box scores of the season. Like if you'd have said the spurs are going to lay an egg and lose to the Suns. Okay, fine. The fact that the Suns of all teams, again, no disrespect to the Suns, I wouldn't have picked the Suns as the team to hold Victor to nine points on four or 14 shooting with six turnovers. Right. Like, that's not what you would expect, nor would you necessarily expect. Phoenix quote up a buck 30 against San Antonio and against Victor who did still have four blocks in the game. So.

[Brian Windhorst]

Well, compliments to first year coach Jordan Knott and his staff for putting the game plan together. Yeah, he gets credit for that and for the Suns executing it.

[Tim Bontemps]

And they have hung around at some games too. Lost Memphis at the buzzer the other day. They've been, they've been competitive.

[Ben McMahon]

Also, we've talked about what a stud Stefan Castle is defensively. Devin Booker lit him up and you know, there was, there was some chit chatting going on too, but book had 27 and 13 and just completely controlled that game on the offensive end against an elite defensive player and an elite defensive team. More Hoop Collective podcast after this.

[Brian Windhorst]

This episode is brought to you by Square your favorite Neighborhood Spots Run on Square There are certain businesses that truly define a neighborhood. Places where the lights are always on, the service feels personal, and the atmosphere feels like an extension of home. Whether it's Sal's Gelato in Akron, Ohio, or the Mill on Leavenworth in Omaha, Nebraska, these businesses create the heartbeat of a community. They're where connections are made, stories are shared, and memories are built. From a quick lunch with coworkers to cheering on the home team with neighbors, these spots bring people together in meaningful ways. When neighborhood businesses thrive, the whole neighborhood thrives. Every dollar spent locally stays in the community and supports the people behind the counter, the staff in the kitchen, and the owners who put their heart into everything they do. So take this as your excuse to go visit your favorite local spot, grab a coffee, sit down for a meal or just stop in to say hello. Square is a proud partner of more than 4 million neighborhood businesses around the world. You can go to square.com go/hoop to learn more. But before you go support your favorite neighborhood spot, you'll be happy you did Square. See you in the neighborhood. The latest NBA Topps collection is now available at Lids Storage, your new home for all things Topps trading cards. Releasing their first licensed NBA collection since 2009, the latest Topps basketball collection features one of one autographs from LeBron James, Victor Wembanyama and the first ever professional autograph cards from rookies Cooper Flagg, Dylan Harper and Ace Bailey. Text NBA to 29017 to sign up for text messaging and your chance to win an NBA Tops hobby box. All entries will also receive a coupon for 20% off your next in store headwear or apparel purchase. Some exclusions do apply. See a Lids teammate for details. It came out today. I think Shams reported it, maybe some others, that Darius Garland is in line to make his season debut for the CAVS, posting the 76ers on Wednesday night. Not sure who's going to play in that game. For the 76ers, it is the second night of a back to back for them.

[Tim Bontemps]

Feel pretty confident Joel Embiid will not.

[Brian Windhorst]

Be playing I think that's true. So we'll see what, what, you know, whether that's confirmed by the time this podcast comes out. But sports headed that way. He had surgery on his big toe in the off season for turf toe. The Cavs need him pretty badly. Not necessarily in this game, although the 76ers are at the top of the of the list. I don't know how tonight's game with the Bulls will play out.

[Tim Bontemps]

By the way, the battle between the number one teams in the Eastern Conference, 5 and 1v5 and 1. Who would have guessed that two weeks into the.

[Ben McMahon]

Season we all called that, oh, I'm smarter than both you. I went to college. As long as you two combined, so it makes sense. I'm smarter.

[Tim Bontemps]

No argument about that.

[Brian Windhorst]

So the numbers could obviously change a little bit by the way things go tonight. But as we do this podcast. A year ago, the Cavs were the number one offense in the league, number two offense all time. This year they're 26th. Now, there's a reason in part for that, because they haven't had Darius Garland, they haven't had Max Strus, Donovan Mitchell has missed a couple of games, Jared Allen's been out, Jared Allen's missed a couple of games and Sam Merrill, who is a key player for them, has missed three or four games.

[Tim Bontemps]

And they don't have Ty Jerome, who was a human microwave all last season for him.

[Brian Windhorst]

Right? So certainly I'm not trying to say, oh my God, how did the bottom fall out? Having said that, you know, the Cavs are, are offensively challenged and one of the things that's going on, Donovan Mitchell is just, he's got great numbers, but he is just hoisting three pointers. He has made 44% of them so far. And that is why The Cavs are above.500. Quite frankly, he's rescued them in some second halves. They're 4 and 3. Evan Mobley's usage rate is the highest it's been in his career because they're running stuff through him because they don't have Darius Garland or Ty Jerome. Lonzo Ball has missed some games as well because he's not going to play the second half of back to backs and he's limited on his overall minutes. So they've leaned on Evan Mobley to be a creator and it's, it's caused the offense to suffer a little bit. It's not that he's playing terribly, but last year 43% of Evan Mobley's shots came in the restricted area. He he averaged almost three dunks a game last year. Had like a 170 or something. 180.

[Tim Bontemps]

I think somebody might. I think somebody might have tipped you off to this. I think maybe the other day.

[Ben McMahon]

Oh, well, anyway.

[Tim Bontemps]

Stealing my thunder.

[Ben McMahon]

I had the.

[Tim Bontemps]

I had the chart. I sent him ready to code. He's using the stats I had.

[Brian Windhorst]

He had. He is now just shooting, I think, 23% of his shots in the restricted area. And Donovan Mitchell, his restricted area shots have dropped by half. He is just hoisting threes.

[Tim Bontemps]

So look, these stats are a couple days old, but the stats that Brian is referring to in part, we talked about the other day. And within five feet of the basket, I believe this is through Sunday night's action. Evan Mobley was shooting 27% of his shots from less than 5ft and 33% of his shots from more than 25ft. That is not a good balance. Yeah, I'm all for Evan Mobley shooting threes. We have talked a lot in the past about the importance of Evan Mobley becoming a three point shooter. I think taking threes is good, but Evan Mobley's taken, at this point, somewhere around 30% of his shots from 5 to 15ft, 27% of his shots from 5ft and in, and 33% of his shots from more than 25ft. That, that rate, that distribution of his shooting can't be the case. He's very athletic. He could get up at the rim. As you said, Brian, he was getting a few dunks a game last year. Obviously, the Cavs are not team, they normally are. There's a lot of factors in this, but they need Evan Mobley to be a factor at the rim. We talked about Victor Wembanyama in the first segment and the way he has gotten back to. Gotten to being the guy in the paint that we've wanted to be. Evan Mobley's got to have the same sort of balance. Yes, it's good to get some threes up, but he's got to be a guy that's able to take the rim off for the Cavs. And, you know, this year it's been a lot of middies and threes, and that's not what you want to see from him.

[Ben McMahon]

Well, and. But he's got. He's. He's a piece of an offensive puzzle that's missing other major pieces. Darius Garland obviously about to come back. And so when Darius Garland's not around, they need him to create more. And then when Max Strus isn't around, it Changes the spacing and the geometry of the court a whole lot, by the way, 192 dunks in 71 games last year. So almost three games. Seven and seven this year. I can do that math that is exactly one per game.

[Tim Bontemps]

Eight years of school gets you that math right there.

[Ben McMahon]

That's right. Yeah. He has less junks this season than I had years in college.

[Tim Bontemps]

Well, I also do think too that, you know, I, I think if you are, you know, one of the many denizens of Cav Cavs corner listens to the pot, including our esteemed leader. The it is pretty concerning the number of injuries that already exist with a Cavs team that came into the season with a roster that you looked at and said had some injury questions. Right. Like, I totally get swapping out essentially Ty Jerome for Lonzo Ball. But Lonzo Ball is a guy that you have to really gently get through the season to make sure he's ready for the playoffs. He's also not a guy that's really going to provide you the kind of offensive lift that Ty Jerome did throughout the season last year. We've talked about strus being out. DeAndre Hunter's had issues with his knee. He's missed time. Dean Wade has been a guy who is a good player when he's available, but he's missed a lot of time. You know, Garland's coming off this toe injury. Let's see how he responds. Donovan Mitchell again already dealing with hamstring issues. That's something that's been an issue repeatedly down the stretch in seasons. It's not great that's happening in November. Obviously. The Cavs have won some games here. They're going to get healthy. They're going to be just fine. They had a nice win over the Hawks the other day, but, you know, it's not great that we're a couple of weeks in and we're talking about a MASH unit for these guys and they've got to have Donovan saving them to win games in the first week of November.

[Brian Windhorst]

Yeah, and I think that, you know, you, you give them grace because of the injuries and look, they've got a, you know, they've got a kind of an interesting week this week where they have the Bulls on the weekend and they have, you know, a Bulls Cavs game is now relevant. That's the team that's in first place. I mean, the, the entire east to a certain extent is a little bit of upside down, topsy turvy. You know, we'll see how the Sixers Emerge. This is a two game road trip to Chicago and Cleveland. Chicago is running hot. Cleveland is obviously one of the favorites, but you know, Cleveland and New Yorker, you know, and, and tonight Atlanta, as in Tuesday night Atlanta and Orlando play also two teams that are underachieving a little bit. Those are teams that right now would be sort of below the midline when you have some other teams at the top that we didn't expect. So these is a little bit, you know, unpredictable in the early going here, but we'll see how the Cavs do. They, they Garland is back, Sam Merrill is close. We'll see if he is able to play this week. And, and let's see how they do against Philly and Chicago, you know, with, with more of their playmaking back.

[Tim Bontemps]

But yeah, Jeremy McCain should be playing Tuesday night in Chicago.

[Brian Windhorst]

That's right. Jared McCain just act.

[Tim Bontemps]

I assume he'll be able to play. He should be able to play in Cleveland Wednesday. I would guess the only guy barring injury that's going to miss time Wednesday is Joel Embiid. I do well, I mean Paul George is back yet, but I'm in guys who are playing Tuesday. I don't think anybody else should miss time. If we're going to talk about these really quick, I do want to shout out Detroit. They had a really nice win. We briefly mentioned it the other day in Mexico City, Dallas. Jalen Duran had a career high in that game. They come back on Monday, they win in Memphis. We'll talk about the Grizzlies later, but they're off to a good start. I think they're 5 and 2 so far and JB Bickerstaff has those guys playing well. Kate Cunningham's completely bounced back or you know, come back from the way he played last year and carried it over and looks awesome. And in an Eastern Conference where there is a lot of uncertainty and there are a lot of teams trying to figure a lot of things out, Detroit has hit the ground running and they've got a chance to put themselves in very good position early on and I'm anxious to see how that continues to play out.

[Ben McMahon]

You know, Jalen Duran's betting on himself didn't get an extension done. You know, there some people don't think there's that much value in that sort of kind of modern traditional rim running center. And by that I mean a non stretch center, but man does he fit well with Cade Cunningham and the chemistry between those guys is awesome. And I just love the, the, the power and the force that Durham plays with. Consistently. And then he's also got some finesse about him. He's, you know, getting the ball in the short roll. He'll make good plays. I, I'm high on that, dude.

[Brian Windhorst]

Also, on Wednesday night we have a rather interesting game between the Memphis Grizzlies and the Houston Rockets. Rockets, by the way. McMahon, I'm going to say not only do they have the top offense in the league, but last year I think they were 21st in the league in three point percentage. And so far, at least at the time that we're recording this, their first, which is not something that I thought I was going to see. I, you know, you thought that Durant would lift them, but Durant's not even shooting that great from three point range. He's shooting lower than his career average. It's like kind of, you know, Reed shepherd certainly helping them. Alperin Shengoon hitting shots.

[Tim Bontemps]

Look, I mean, Tari's again, this is like two week sample size, right?

[Brian Windhorst]

Okay, but they were terrible last year.

[Tim Bontemps]

Well, okay, but Tari Easton right Now is shooting 56% from three on four attempts a game. Right? So like let's, let's just ease off.

[Ben McMahon]

On where the rocks and KD was in the mid-40s and then he had an off night against the Mavericks. But yeah, listen, the, the Alpi Shingoon thing is a fascinating deal. Whether he can maintain, I mean, he's not going to shoot it this well, but if he can be a legitimate three point threat. What we're seeing with the Rockets is Kevin Durant has come in and given that offense the boost they anticipated. But that's not the only reason they're the number one offense in the the league. We are seeing two ascending stars, potential superstars in Alaran Shingon and Amin Thompson. And by the way, it's not too long ago we'd be talking to people around the league and there'd be like, you know, I'm not sure the spacing is going to work with those two guys. I'm not sure those two guys can play together. Not only does the spacing work with those two guys, they have developed phenomenal chemistry and it's a, it's a really interesting deal. You know, IME Adoka refers to it as unconventional. They don't have their point guard. Fred Van Fleet is out with an ACL unfortunately, and Amin is playing that position. Bring the ball up before the majority of the time. But in half court they're really running everything through Alpi and a lot of times Amin Thompson, the point Guard will bring it up the floor and then head down to the dunker spot. And man, Alpie knows how to find them down there and Amin knows how to finish. And I'm just telling you, those two guys in particular are soaring right now. I, I think they're, you know, we'll see what the Rockets record is. I think they both might have a chance to be an All Star this year in addition to kd.

[Tim Bontemps]

Well, I think Shangun certainly does under the new rules with the international flavor to it. But I would say that while we're going to talk about Rockets Grizzlies, which is on Wednesday night, one of the more interesting games of the early season is the game Friday in San Antonio with the Rockets and the Spurs. And I want to see how this massive Rockets team handles Victor Wembanyama and how that matchup goes. I think that will be very interesting for a whole host of reasons after we saw, you know, probably won't. I'm not certain we'll see a better game than the first game of the year between Houston and okc, but Rockets are off to a great start. Chengun's been great, as you said, Tim, and that one on Friday night's going to be awfully fun.

[Ben McMahon]

Well, and I guarantee you this Wimby will be up for that one. Not that, you know, not that Wimby's got motivational issues at any point, but there have been times when Shingoon has given him the business. And Shingoon, man, he's a tough cover. Hey, the biggest bucket of the game last night. Kevin Durant went and stood in the corner space the floor and Albie Shingoon went one on one and made a beautiful spin move in the lane before finishing. He's, he's, you know, a top five center, easy. I mean, I don't want to say he's going to be all NBA. I know that one of those spots has been designated for a beats of Zubots by a certain host of this podcast, but Shingoon's playing at an elite.

[Brian Windhorst]

Televiza that I said hello tonight when.

[Ben McMahon]

You'Re at the game will do.

[Brian Windhorst]

Well, the thing about the Rockets, they're, they just grind it out offensively beyond just a three point shooting. They're number one in offensive rebounding.

[Tim Bontemps]

Yeah. I mean, anytime they miss it, there's a 50% chance they're getting the miss, which doesn't hurt.

[Brian Windhorst]

And they're number one in free throws.

[Ben McMahon]

Yeah, and those are, they're, they're rugged as hell. They are a Relentless attacking team. And last year they. They couldn't shoot at all, but they did grab a ton of rebounds. That's why they were mediocre offensively last year. Yeah, kd, these young guys keep improving. I will say the Rockets have slipped on the defensive end. And I think the challenge for the Rockets is I'm not saying they'll be the number one offense this year, but, you know, maintain elite efficiency offensively, but get back to that rugged, dominant, nasty defensive identity on a consistent basis. And I think that's where you're really missing Fred Van Vliet, the communicator and just the pit bull. Obviously, you're missing Dylan Brooks. Those are the two guys who set the tone for him there. And do you trade Dylan Brooks as part of the KD deal? A thousand times out of a thousand, yes. But I'm just saying you're missing it there. And where you're. I think they really miss. Fanflied on the offensive end is the turnovers, which directly affects the defense as well. More Hoop Collective podcast after this.

[Brian Windhorst]

So John Morant was, I think the headline that we had on espn.com said mum following his. His suspension when he came back on Monday. Look, the Grizzlies are backing their head coach here. And you know, one. One of the things, you know, obviously Thomas A. Salo got into it with John Morant after the game. And, you know, if you're in that locker room, just put yourself in that locker room. Right. So it's a new coach. I know he's not new to the team, but it's. He's in this job, you know, and you get into a back and forth with the star player and you're saying, how is this going to go? And so the, the Grizzlies sent a message that they're going to back their coach. And I know that in the modern era, everybody's like, okay, well, is the star player being traded the next 10 minutes or in the next 20 minutes? Right, and we talked about that on the podcast earlier this week. But, you know, Jaw is not at least publicly reaching out much of a olive branch.

[Ben McMahon]

I would say Job put forth more effort defensively in the second half against the Lakers than he did in extending an olive branch.

[Brian Windhorst]

Yeah. So I guess. To be continued. Is that what you would say? Assess this.

[Ben McMahon]

Look, Ja, you know, we've talked a lot about superstar players have the ability to publicly crank up the temperature or turn it down, and the temperature is hot and Jaw's like, cool, Let it, let it burn. He's going to do this little mopey thing with the media. And the other thing I will say with Jaw, even if he wanted to turn the temperature down, even if he like was making peace with the Asalo, Ja gets in this thing where either you're a cheerleader or you're the enemy. And it's not the media's job to be a cheerleader. You know, he, like Chris Harrington with the Daily Memphian asked him a very fair question along the lines of like, you know what, what did you think of your effort in the second half against the Lakers? That's not the exact question, but like, you know, or do you have any regrets? I think something along those lines. And Josh said, oh, that's your home run question. Sounds like bait to me. Like it's a. It's essentially saying, john, do you want to take any accountability for what led to the confrontation? And Ja's answer in so many words is, no, I don't want to take any accountability. So as long as Ja Morant does not want to take any accountability, you've got issues. There was There's a fascinating clip and I mentioned this last podcast. There's a fascinating clip going around the it's called the X's and O's Chat. It's a European based basketball podcast. And Iosala did like a long sit down interview with him back in January, well before he was on the Grizzly staff, but well before he was the head coach. Remember that was what, nine games left in the regular season. And he talks about like he came around to this philosophy of, hey, if a player is being a B pole and he didn't beep it, then he's come around to saying, hey, we're going to address that in front of the entire team. It's hurting everybody there. Everybody sees it. Let's direct, you know, address this head on. And he said, you know, as part of this thing, he said, you're hurting all of us. You're not responsible to me. I'm just telling you that this is how the other guys feel about you. So you can go ahead and be a beep hole, okay? But everybody here knows it. If you're fine and you can live with it, then I can live with it as long as you bring the result. But if you don't bring the result, then your ass is cut. Now that last line might work in the European leagues he was coaching in. That ain't the way the NBA works with the face of the franchise on a maximum contract. But I think it Tells you about the way he approaches, like, dude, you're quiet. Quitting for the world to see. We're going to talk about this for the whole team to hear. Well.

[Tim Bontemps]

And until we get some sort of firm resolution, either from, you know, the temperature as you civic band going down and jaw acting normally and not pouting, which I would say his behavior after the game Monday was more pouting then this is going to remain a story. And again, not to completely rehash our conversation from the other day, but John Morant might be a superstar in terms of shoe sales and in terms of public perception, he's not a superstar on the court anymore. And so again, the idea of even deciding to trade John Morant and what that would look like, it is not going to be the Desmond Bain return if they do decide to do it, which is a whole nother level of complication to this situation and why it's probably going to remain something that is hovering in the background unless there's a change in status all the way until the trade deadline in February.

[Brian Windhorst]

Yeah. I will say the quote that sort of got the most attention, even though it was pretty short. He was asked if he has his usual joy of playing basketball, which is evident that it's not the case because.

[Ben McMahon]

Yeah.

[Brian Windhorst]

Of his body language and everything. But he said no. And you know, the thing that I was thinking about is I don't think he's had the joy. The job Morant joy of playing basketball since he was at that club outside Denver two and a half months. Two and a half years ago.

[Ben McMahon]

Yeah.

[Brian Windhorst]

Because if you look at since then, you know, if you want to say we're fine in the West.

[Tim Bontemps]

I mean, you can say from. I was going to say that's to me the moment. From that moment, that quote until now, what has happened in Memphis, there's been hardly any good.

[Brian Windhorst]

Right. I mean, I don't have to go over the whole thing.

[Tim Bontemps]

No, you don't need to.

[Brian Windhorst]

Mentions and like.

[Ben McMahon]

And even like, just in terms of. Because Jai, I mean, man, he used to just be as electric as any player in the league in terms of obviously the game, but the personality and that's, you know, Memphis fell in love with those two things.

[Brian Windhorst]

That's why Nike gave him the signature shoe, which even came out today, right?

[Ben McMahon]

No, that was. There's an Air Force One that came out today. It's the let Joby Jai Air Force ones, which I thought was interesting timing.

[Brian Windhorst]

Is that. Was that a real thing or is that just a joke?

[Ben McMahon]

No, it was a real thing. I've seen it.

[Brian Windhorst]

But like, that wasn't like.

[Ben McMahon]

No, it's not.

[Brian Windhorst]

They didn't. Like, that was planned for like months, right? Like, it didn't. It just let Joby. Like, that's not like a reaction.

[Ben McMahon]

No, it's not a. I assume. No, I don't think they're the releasing a Air Force One edition just specifically because of this. I know. I think.

[Brian Windhorst]

Okay. I just, I'm not a. I'm not a sneaker head, so I think that.

[Ben McMahon]

I think it's a complete coincidence. But like last year, you remember when he came through Dallas and you know, I was asking, like they had a breakaway and he did like a little, as he called it, like a little rim grazer. And then he was basically like, man, I don't even want to dunk anymore. You know, and there's a lot of.

[Brian Windhorst]

Things lasted for like three days. But.

[Ben McMahon]

Well, but. But look at his dunk numbers and look at it. And on a related note, look at his finishing in the rim numbers. And for that. You know what? That's not a. That's not about a system. That's not. That's about. He kept getting hurt with these, you know, high flying acrobatics and traffic and he felt like he wasn't getting called. So, like Jaws got a lot of things that in his mind are robbing him of joy. You know, it's. It's been. I mean, specifically the refs. It's been, you know, sanctions from the league. It's been friction with, with coaching in terms of system or, you know, now I guess it's a. It's this substitution pattern that he's. That he's worked up about. You know, the, the media is out to get him in his mind a lot of times, like there's just. And it's just like, dude, the just pure bliss that he used to have on a basketball court is gone. And it's. And it's not like he's not fun to. It's not. It used to be so much fun to watch him. It's not fun anymore.

[Tim Bontemps]

Feels like the end of Derrick Rose in Chicago is what it feels like many different ways.

[Brian Windhorst]

I think we should point out, because we don't talk about the Jazz that much and we've got a lot of fans in Utah.

[Tim Bontemps]

We sure do.

[Brian Windhorst]

The Jazz won in Boston a couple of days ago.

[Tim Bontemps]

Kessler the sheriff Sheriff out with a shoulder issue.

[Brian Windhorst]

A top. A top nickname I like.

[Ben McMahon]

Very good nickname.

[Brian Windhorst]

I will say this. You watch the Jazz, they look like no other team in the NBA say that they're 3 and 4.

[Ben McMahon]

The Wasatch front line.

[Tim Bontemps]

By the way, I turn on the Celtics Jazz game in the fourth quarter on Monday night while I'm sitting at the Garden watching Wizards, Knicks, and what do I see? I see Kevin Love flying down the lane, catching a pass for a reverse layup. I did a quadruple take. I was like flying. Love you.

[Brian Windhorst]

You want to. You sure you want to?

[Tim Bontemps]

He was moving, he was quick. I got it on the Love on the. On the rip and laid it in.

[Ben McMahon]

He's got the. He. You know, when they wear the mountain uniforms, he's got like the snow cap, peaks in the hair that match. I mean, I'm telling you, I think he's a good fit there.

[Brian Windhorst]

Let me tell you what Lowry marketing stats are so far.

[Ben McMahon]

He's hooping. Hey, post Euroleague or, I'm sorry, post Euro basket. Larry Martin Markkanen is a different beast. Go on.

[Brian Windhorst]

Yeah, he's averaging 31 points a game on 48% shooting. He's making four threes a game on 37% shooting, averaging seven rebounds and two assists a game. And again, Keonte George, If Larry keeps.

[Tim Bontemps]

Playing like that between now and the trade deadline, it's going to be interesting to see what Utah ultimately decides to do.

[Brian Windhorst]

I think people were all excited about their draft pick, Ace Bailey, who is not doing much so far. He's. He's shooting under 30% and averaging 4 points. But let me talk about Keonte George out of Baylor. Is. Is this. Is this the third, you know, year leap that we sometimes see and, you know, don't always expect. Keonte George is one of the early stories of the NBA, is averaging 23 points, averaging eight assists, and has been a really. He's only 22 years old. This is a guy who, when he came out, really had a really good summer league and it was like, oh, man, could this guy have been a sleeper in the draft? And then, you know, as Utah has been mired in the muck.

[Tim Bontemps]

Well, and this is the interesting thing. He's shooting terribly from three. It's almost six attempts a game, and he's shooting 27%. The reason his numbers look so good is he's shooting almost 10 free throws a game, and hitting 91% of them like that is awfully interesting. And if he could continue to be that good and that able to get to the rim and finish and get to the line, like the shooting being questionable isn't going to matter as much if he's going to Be a consistent, a consistent weapon in terms of drawing fouls and getting to the line. That, that is an eye popping number. 9.6 free throw attempts per game. That is something I'm going to be monitoring because if that continues like, you know that that's something that's really sustainable and can be the foundation of something pretty interesting.

[Ben McMahon]

Well, and I don't know the official hashtag muscle watch on him in terms of the weight, but like his arms are clearly significantly bigger, more defined. He came into the league as a slight kid. Like I don't know if he could grow a mustache when he came in league. And he's put in a lot of work and, and look, he's also been coached hard by Will Hardy. And one of Will's things is no free minutes. Even when, you know, last year was a nightmare from a player development standpoint because clearly they weren't trying to win. But last year Isaiah Collier took the starting job from, from Keonte George for a while and that was Will trying to basically say, dude, you're not getting handed anything in this league. You're not getting anything handed anything by this franchise. And Keonte has responded to that coaching and I talked to Will during the preseason and he said his exact quote was, man, I am so proud of that dude. Just the way that he responded to a rough year last year, his approach during the summer, and that's obviously carried over. He said he'd grown up a lot and that's carried over clearly in the start of the season.

[Tim Bontemps]

And by the way, to follow up on this free throw thing, here are the top 10 guys in free throws attempted per game going into Tuesday night. Zion Williamson, Giannis Windows, favorite, Austin Reeves, Palo Ben Caro, Shay Keante, George Tyrese Maxi, Kevin Durant, Pascal Siakam, Devin Booker, and Jimmy Butler's 11th. Like, wow, that is awfully good company to be in. And if you're getting to the line 8, 9, 10 times a game, like, that's a real game changer deal. So I'm, I'm awfully curious to see that. And we were, part of the reason we were doing this was to talk about the Celtics and the free throw thing is interesting with them. Boston has never been a team that's been particularly good at getting to the foul line. They are dead last in the league. 18.1 free throw attempts per game. There's only one other team, the clippers, that's under 20. And then the Wizards are at almost 21.

[Ben McMahon]

Wow.

[Brian Windhorst]

Field, no Jason Tatum there.

[Tim Bontemps]

It was always Jason Tatum and Jalen Brown and really that's it in terms of getting to the line. Yeah, you take Jason Tatum away and again it's very hard to have consistent offense even if you have a bunch of shooters from three if you're just not getting consistent.

[Brian Windhorst]

By the way, trips the line. While we're talking about Keonte George and having a surprising year and the little known teams before we go to break here, I like to talk about Kaishan George from the Wizard.

[Tim Bontemps]

Keyshawn.

[Brian Windhorst]

George.

[Ben McMahon]

When you say little known, I mean he got a mix in a mispronunciation.

[Brian Windhorst]

I actually knew that that was my own. That was just a dumb thing.

[Tim Bontemps]

I got corrected on it by our guy Jim Le Bombard when I saw him yesterday after listening to us on the pod. So I just wanted to make sure we got it right.

[Ben McMahon]

I saw him score 34 in Dallas. He lit the Mavs up in the second game of the year.

[Brian Windhorst]

He is having a impactful second season. There's not much super exciting happening in Washington, I'm going to tell you.

[Ben McMahon]

Alex Sars, Alex Sars is coming along very, very nicely.

[Tim Bontemps]

I was going to say I saw the Wizards Monday night and yes, they had a rough third quarter and they end up losing by 15ish to the Knicks. But Keyshawn George has had a really nice year. Alexar's rim protection numbers are really interesting. He started to get better. Like their young guys. Yes, their young guys have taken some real steps forward. They've been respectable in these games. Like they're playing a lot of young guys. I think Chris Middleton and CJ McCollum have been, you know, very good veteran additions. I saw CJ for a while before the game. You know, it I, I, it feels much different than it did last year where early in the year they were just getting absolutely slaughtered on a nightly basis like this. This feels a lot, a lot more like progress to me. And these young guys are like you said, Keshawn and Alex are at the top of the list in terms of taking real steps forward.

[Brian Windhorst]

Keisha and George not related to Keante George. Keyshawn George is actually Swiss, but definitely.

[Ben McMahon]

I didn't know that.

[Brian Windhorst]

Yeah, definitely a he should have a. Well, never mind.

[Ben McMahon]

He's got one of the best froze in modern NBA history.

[Tim Bontemps]

Like he's got a great head of hair.

[Ben McMahon]

Yeah. Since the aba, he's got one of the best froze that we've seen.

[Brian Windhorst]

He also, he should have an on, you know, on should have a basketball shoe and he should be on clouds.

[Ben McMahon]

Swiss on cloud yeah, it's a perfect fit for basketball. For a high flyer, he's more of a shooter.

[Brian Windhorst]

But hey, come on, let's, let's get it done. We, you know, let, let Keyshawn be Keyshawn. I just did that.

[Ben McMahon]

Sneaker hits sneaker head Wendy with all kinds of ideas.

[Brian Windhorst]

That's right.

[Tim Bontemps]

That's right. Fire or not fire. That would be a fire shoe.

[Brian Windhorst]

I know that it's been nothing but good news for the New Orleans Pelicans out of the gate now. They are playing the Charlotte Hornets on Tuesday night at home without LaMelo Ball. So maybe they get their first win. You'll know by the time you hear this podcast. However, Zion, they better, they better get.

[Tim Bontemps]

Their first win against the, against the Charlotte Hornets Tuesday night.

[Brian Windhorst]

However, Zion has another hamstring injury. He has been. He pretty, pretty much had a season totally derailed by hamstring injury two years ago and he'll be reevaluated in seven to 10 days. When it comes to Zion's hamstring, I, I mean I respect that they announced seven to ten days. Nobody has any clue here.

[Ben McMahon]

I mean, seven to ten days, seven to ten months, who knows?

[Tim Bontemps]

And by, and by the way, just really quick, here's their schedule in November at Dallas on Wednesday. So the second night of a back to back at the spurs, at the Suns, Portland Lakers, Warriors, Thunder, Denver at Dallas, Atlanta, Chicago, Memphis, Golden State Lakers.

[Brian Windhorst]

Yeah, when you're not one of the 10 best teams in the west, it's going to always be brutal.

[Tim Bontemps]

I'm just saying. I'm just saying that's. Even the east teams they're playing are all over.500.

[Ben McMahon]

You're not one of the 14 best teams in the West.

[Brian Windhorst]

Yeah. Well, the only uplifting part of the Atlanta Hawks shaky start to the season is the out of town scoreboard as they look over there.

[Tim Bontemps]

It's an extremely uplifting part, I can tell you that. Struggling, uplifting.

[Brian Windhorst]

Let's look up there and see what the Pelicans score.

[Ben McMahon]

Oh, yes.

[Tim Bontemps]

You're down by 40,000 points in the second quarter. Yes.

[Brian Windhorst]

Oh my God. Yes. To your point, Bon Temps, they are in the stretch of six out of seven on the road. All of them Western Conference games.

[Tim Bontemps]

They got to get this game against Charlotte. Yeah, they got to get it.

[Brian Windhorst]

Yeah. All the road games are Western Conference games. So the one home game is Charlotte game. So not great news on Zion. All right, thank you very much to Mr. McMahon. Thank you very much to Mr. Bontems. Thank you very much to Jackson, our producer. Thank you for watching and listening to the Collective. We'll be back at the end of the week.

[Ben McMahon]

Thank you, Mr. Winhurst, and adios amigos. It.