← Brian Windhorst & The Hoop Collective
Brian Windhorst & The Hoop Collective
Wemby Ejected In Huge Wolves' Win, Historic Run For Knicks + Draft Lottery Winners & Losers
01:09:36
Hoop Collective: Wemby Ejected In Huge Wolves Win, Historic Run For Knicks + Draft Lottery Winners & Losers
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- [00:00]
A
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B
Hello and welcome to the Hoop Collective podcast. We talk about the NBA, which we're doing on Sunday evening. Joining us from Philadelphia, Pennsylvania for the last time this season at the Xfinity Mobile arena is Tim Bontemps.
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C
Hello, everybody. I leaned into the bit when I talked up the Sixers on the pod. I backed up my words with my prediction. Didn't go so great. Wasn't a very good pick. Heard a lot about it this week. What are you going to do?
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B
Yeah, nothing that we can say will be worse than what Bontemps has heard from the Knick fans. I just want, you know, I've gotten
- [01:17]
C
all kinds of, all kinds of, all kinds of slander on the Internet, people yelling at me at the games. It's all, it's all in good fun. Saw our guy Rick Brunson today. He's like, I was looking for you. I said, I'm sure you were. Everybody's very happy in Nick's land, as they should be.
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B
Yeah. Just take it as an indication of your level of influence.
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C
People are paying attention. And the Knicks are, as we will talk about, absolutely rolling.
- [01:41]
B
Yes. That was absolutely, absolutely true. Joining us from Los Angeles, California, where he watched The Thunder go up 30 on the Lakers on Saturday night and he will be at game four on Monday is Ben McMahon.
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D
Howdy, partners. Listen, bond temps could be worse. You could have said that the Lakers were going to be the favorites in the West. The results were pretty similar, but oh, lordy.
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B
Well, I am in Chicago where the NBA draft lottery took place today here at the Navy Pier, where I'm at now. And I'll talk about that later. I was in the room and I found it to be a fascinating experience. But first I think we need to talk about the fascinating experience that was the Wolves game four victory by five points over the spurs to even the series at 2 2. And while the end of this game was pretty fascinating in terms of things that the Wolves did very well to win it and also things that they didn't do well to almost lose their lead. But it's two. Two. But I think the only place that we can start is what happened in the second quarter. McMahon. Victor Wembanyama. You know, I haven't been on any of the socials because I've been working on lottery coverage. I don't. I suppose there's got to be. There's going to be some faction of the spurs fan base that thinks Victor Wembanyama getting ejected was controversial. I felt this was unfortunately a no brainer decision. He absolutely hauls off and elbows Naz Reed in the neck chin first. I guess that's true. And is ejected. And quite frankly, you know, it decides the game because the, the spurs have the lead in the fourth quarter and they can't get a rebound or a stop in the paint when it matters. And Victor obviously would have been there. And so just a complete loss of composure from Victor. We have applauded him on every front, how he's mature beyond his years. It was an unacceptable choice and it hurt his team and he will help his team and carry his team to many wins in the future. He hurt his team and he has extended their series in all likelihood. And so that's just the way I saw it. Yeah.
- [03:56]
D
And you know, Ms. Johnson did make, I would say, an excuse for Wimby post game reading from Mike Wright's Twitter. At some point he should be protected. If not, he's going to have to protect himself. Listen, were they being physical with him? Yeah, but this was like, I'm watching it. I'm saying, man, I hope he's not ejected. And then you're watching the replay, you're like, there's no way this could be ruled anything but a flagrant two. I mean, it was unnecessary, it was excessive. It was like there was no gray area here. This was very black and white. And unfortunately that momentary loss composure did cause him to get kicked out. The only thing I agree or disagree with you on rather is they lost the game. Yeah. Maybe it's different if WiMi's in the game. Sure. But they lost the game because Anthony Edwards completely took over down the stretch and the, the Wolves for the second time in this series were dominant closers. So, you know, I'm going to give the Wolves some credit.
- [04:55]
B
I don't mean to take the credit away from the Wolves, but Rudy Gobert is Dunking down the stretch. I'm not sure that's happening with Victor in there. I mean, they're making nice plays, but,
- [05:03]
C
you know, you never know how the game would have gone if Victor was playing. But the bottom line is he took himself out of the game and Minnesota took advantage of it, and that. That's what matters. And I was very glad he got ejected. I'm not looking for star players to get thrown out of games. No, I just mean when he made the play, I'm. I'm glad they called it the way they should have and didn't give him a flagrant one, because he's Victor. We like, it was a dirty play. He deserved to get ejected. If Nas Reed had done that to victory, he would have got ejected. So I maybe suspended. Well, maybe. I mean, I don't think. I mean, somebody asked a friend of mine who's just a basketball fan said, you know, is Victor going to get suspended? I do not believe Victor.
- [05:43]
B
I mean, they'll review it. Like, if, like if you see reporting that'll be reviewed. All flagrants would be reviewed. Right. It's not, but he got.
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C
He got a flag or two. He missed a game. I think that's a more than reasonable penalty. And there for game five?
- [05:57]
B
Well, yeah, I mean, I know, I know. Also, I thought Zack Zarbo, the crew chief, he, like, he very clearly articulated all the steps of what is deemed a flagrant foul. Like, he, he like, dotted every I and crossed every T to explain. And for as cerebral and as well versed as Victor is, do we honestly believe he didn't know?
- [06:20]
D
No, that was. He knew the camera was on him. Like, no, he. Buddy, you know, flagrant two gets you tossed. Come on, you're your third year in the league.
- [06:28]
B
What he's referring to is the camera saw him and he asks Harrison Barnes, what does it mean? You know, they announced flagrant two, and he's like, what does that mean? And Harrison Barnes is like, it means you're ejected. And he goes, I'm ejected. And. But he, but, but he, he heard it and he didn't, like, fight it. He just got up and left.
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C
Got up and left. And to your point, McMahon, the wolves took this one down the stretch because, look, for a minute, like, the spurs might pull this one out and really put a hammer blow on the series. I mean, in Minnesota lost this game at home with Victor thrown out of the game. It would have been very hard to see them winning three in a row. But Anthony Edwards hits a bunch of shots he and Julius Randle made some big plays. Obviousumo had a big bucket like you said. Rudy got a couple of dunks late. Brian, I mean it was pretty much everybody that was on the court at some point made some play to help them win the game. And you know, in a second round where we might not have a lot of entertaining series, we certainly got one with spurs wolves. And game five in San Antonio is going to be super interesting on Tuesday night when you got this Minnesota team that has already proven it is not afraid of any opponent and has already got some big time upsets on its belt past couple of years. Going up against a young spurs team like we've talked about.
- [07:45]
B
Road playoff wins too.
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C
Yeah, a bunch of road playoff wins against a young spurs team that like we've talked about. Hasn't really been in a lot of these situations before. And virtually other than Harrison Barnes, I would say nobody else, I guess Luke Cornett too. Those are the two guys. Everybody else on the team as either I played in the first round or not in the playoffs at all.
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D
How dare you disrespect Kelly Olenek.
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C
That's true. Forgot about Kelly on the end of the bench too.
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B
So with eight minutes, we'll call it nine minutes left, the spurs go to an eight point lead. The Wolves called timeout. Here's how it went. And Edwards 11 foot pull up. And Edwards 27 foot pull up. Jaden McDaniels hit a couple of free throws and Edwards 25 point or 25 foot shot. Nazrid driving layup. And then some good some dunks from Gobert. Sixteen points in the fourth quarter for Ant, 6 of 8 shooting. Hit a couple of threes as I just mentioned.
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D
And this is a guy who has two bad knees. The runner's knee in one and a hyperextension in the other. I think I said this the other day. Ant's never been first team all NBA, but you cannot name five guys you'd rather have in the playoffs than him. I would take Ant over anybody in the Eastern Conference.
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C
That's an interesting comment.
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D
I take and I love Jalen Brunson. I take him over Brunson. I love Cade Cunningham for the playoffs. I take him over Cade. I take him over. You know, if you want to put Jason Tatum. Ant is an absolute killer. He is obviously a mega talent. He's got this competitive charisma that lifts up the rest of his team. He impacts the game on both ends of the floor and he is just absolutely fearless. He is. I mean he is A. He's a. He peaks in the playoffs. He is just a. He's built for this.
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C
I'm not necessarily arguing with you. I just. When you said it, I was just thinking about it. I mean, he's, he's certainly right there with all those guys. I don't think there's any. At minimum, if not ahead of him.
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B
I don't really feel like having this discussion right now. I'm just going to keep going.
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C
Trying to.
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D
It's just an interesting.
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B
No, it's fine. No, I don't. It's an interesting comment.
- [09:49]
C
Credit for an interesting thought.
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B
It is an interesting comment, but I, I respectfully opt out of the discourse.
- [09:55]
C
Yeah, we'll opt into 25 minutes of dissertation from the secret room later. We got to save time for that.
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B
Well, I mean, you know, tell you
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D
what, Wendy, Zara's hair is much better in place than yours is right now.
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B
Yeah, my, this is, it's not, it's not ideal. I'm not going to lie. It's been a long day. Not compared to Bon Towns. Bontam has been, you know, they, they, they had the. We'll talk about this later. But I don't want to say that the, that the Sixers didn't love their chances, but they scheduled exit interviews before the game.
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C
Well, that's, that's not exactly a fair. Okay, every time, like every time we've covered an elimination game, there was a plan if they season.
- [10:36]
B
I know. Okay, fine. Sorry. I take it all back.
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C
They got enough things to clown on him for today.
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D
They could have had. They could have the first quarter.
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C
They certainly could have.
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B
All right. Anyway, Bon Temps had a long day. Nas Reed got rolled up on, on his ankle in the fourth quarter there. And I was like, oh man, that looks like a problem. That looks like a high ankle sprain is what I was thinking. And I was like, damn, like that's a potential real loss. And then the guy comes back out and is making plays.
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D
I'm telling you. What, listen, the spurs are the more talented team, you know, I don't know what the odds are now, but obviously they're the favorite team. The Wolves, though, like, you've got to love watching this team. And they fight. They've got high end talent, you know, they can be. They're an extremely frustrating regular season team, but they are a flip the switch for the playoffs squad. And spurs got their hands full, man. And Wimby, like we haven't even talked about his game three performance which was just like jaw dropping. I mean, I'M watching on a flight and I'm just gasping at some of the things he did.
- [11:55]
B
16 fourth quarter points on that game. You know, at that point, a 1:1 series, he's on the road and just
- [12:01]
D
39, 15, five blocks. The Akeem spin fadeaway that he hit over Gobert and crunch time like it was amazing. But he followed that up by letting his team down today. And this series is tied up and, and in the balance. And you know, the Wolves definitely have the advantage of having been there and having thrown knockout punches in the playoffs before.
- [12:25]
C
This reminds me a little bit of Thunder Mavs from a couple years ago and that series, I believe Tim was two two after four, right. And the Thunder missed some makeable shots in games five and six and game. You know.
- [12:42]
B
Yeah, their youth showed up. Their youth showed up in that series. I mean Luca was obviously great, but their youth showed up in that series.
- [12:48]
D
They weren't well and, and P.J. washington had the series of his life. They actually did a great job on Kyrie in that series and for most of it on Luca. But you know, role players won that series. Listen, role players won the Wolves last series. Jaden McDaniels is a role player who played out of his mind. They've got, you know, Nas Reed's a role player capable of swinging a playoff series. Iota Sumu is a role player capable of swinging a playoff series.
- [13:13]
B
Yeah, Desumu came back. You know, he's, he's clearly not 100%. He's, he's limping through it. But he made a huge basket in the, in the fourth quarter to help hold off the spurs comeback. I really hate to just always focus or talk about the three point shooting, but I. The modern NBA, it just comes down to it. And in both spurs losses in this series, they have shot the ball poorly from three and they go 6 of 26 in this game.
- [13:39]
C
They're not a great three point shooting team. And if they're hitting threes, they're going to be incredibly hard to beat. And if they're not hitting threes, which they definitely are capable of not hitting threes, then they're going to potentially have some trouble scoring. And you know, I mean, it's not, you know, it's not really like the, it's not like they're all about the threes like say Boston is or something. But you know, when you have Victor, like if Victor's jumper is going like it was in game three, good luck. Like you're probably not beating them. But sure, no, you're not.
- [14:11]
D
When Wemby's hitting his three, you're dead. But to me, this was a case where the Wolves closer delivered and the spurs closer, Darren Fox did not. Down the stretch and he got off to a slow start. Then he really got cooking in the second half. Like Fox had a, a stretch there where he was a big reason why they had that lead. And then down the stretch, you know, they weren't like a bunch of easy shots, but down the stretch he just couldn't knock down shots while Ant was going crazy. And that, you know, Aaron Fox's role is to be the closer.
- [14:42]
B
He missed six shots in the fourth. I mean he made a couple, but he missed six and he missed three threes. And you know, like. Yeah, I mean it's a, it's a great, it's a, it's a really good looking series and it's a real test for, for, for the Spurs. And you know, one thing I'll say is they have had a handful of challenges in this series or in this postseason and they've stepped up and delivered. They've found different guys to do different things. Obviously Victor is really important, but there's been games where Fox has played well games, Castle's played well games. Julian Champagne has been a difference maker. I do think it was interesting.
- [15:19]
D
Dylan Harper was great tonight.
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B
Right down the stretch of this game, the spurs played with the tallest guy on the course being Champagne. They went super duper small. And there was sort of a defining play where Naz Reed got a put back off of offensive rebound where I think he was just bigger than everybody out there. But the super small lineup gave the Wolves some trouble at the end of the game. They couldn't get the ball in bounds. Yeah. So it'll be a real challenge for the Spurs. Look, look, we say this every year. Two, two series game five, three, three series, game seven. But obviously huge. But two, two series game five reputations are made on that two, two series game five. So.
- [15:57]
D
And, and the Jackals will be ready. Yeah, they'll have that thing rocking down in Santa.
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B
And listen, Ant Edwards has a bunch of big road playoff games on his resume, so look forward to that. Unfortunately, you guys weren't on those series. You're on that series.
- [16:12]
D
More Hoop Collective podcast after this.
- [16:17]
B
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E
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- [17:37]
C
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- [18:11]
B
The series that you or on bond Temps I'm going to have to yield to you because I saw almost none of this game. I was doing the lottery. I was doing follow up stuff, secret
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C
room in it, breaking it down after.
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B
It's not a secret room, it's a very very easily to find room.
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D
I took a nap at halftime and
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C
could have taken one earlier than that midway through the first quarter, confidently decided
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D
to nap at halftime and dozed to a fair amount of the second half.
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C
Here's all we got to say about game four Knicks Sixers. The Knicks made 12 of their first 13 three point attempts in the game. And that is not to say that this is like oh, they just hit some shots and they won the game. But they had 43 points in the first quarter. The game was over by the end of the first quarter. Like they just came out. Paul George said it best after the game. He said they they hit us with some haymakers and they kept throwing them and I was like yeah, they kept throwing them and hitting shot after shot after shot stats. Williams had the stat that they're 18 threes. They were 18 for 29 from 3 in the first half their 18 threes in the first half were the most tied for the most in any game in NBA history, playoff or regular season. Like they came out, they hit every shot. They've been on an unbelievable heater offensively.
- [19:23]
B
They have three games in the playoffs of over 130. They've got two of over 140.
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C
They have. The two closeout games are both over 140. But what was the stats, William, stat on that. I think it's the, I want to say it was the first time the first team to score at least 140 points in multiple series clinching wins in the playoffs. Which again, not a huge shock. Not, not that many teams are scoring 140 points in the playoffs. But as I said earlier, obviously picked Philly to win the series and could not have been more wrong on that.
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D
You're only 89 points off.
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C
Yes, I was only had enough points off. And look, the Knicks, the stuff that they.
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B
Is that what it was? That what the spread was 89.
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C
I mean, I, I mean they won today by 30.
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D
So by the way, their, their, their average point differential through 10 games, remember their two losses are both one point games.
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B
That's right.
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D
Their average point differential is 19.4 points per game. That's the largest going in the conference final since it went to 16. Yeah, the 16 team format in 83.
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C
84. Yeah, I mean look, they've had a couple close games. You know, game two in this series could have gone either way. Obviously like you said, they had the two 1 point losses in the first round. But since they changed their offense around after game three, they, against Atlanta, they have been just absolutely molten hot.
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D
Listen to this.
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C
And now go ahead.
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D
185 points is what they've outscored opponents by in that stretch. That is the third best points differential in any seven game span period, just regular season or playoffs. And I believe this is telling me, yeah, third best span ever and the best ever in the playoffs.
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C
Yeah, I mean it, they were, they were just, they've been absolutely unbelievable. And you know, like, obviously it was like, all right, they did this stuff against Atlanta. Atlanta has no size. Let's see how they do against Philly. And you could say that Embiid wasn't right. That's fine. Doesn't matter. Like, yeah, these guys came in and just absolutely blew the doors off them. And they, I mean this is the, the Knicks team that we spent all year kind of waiting to see. It was like, you know, all. Vinnie wrote a story. Go. Vinnie Goodwill wrote a story. About Carl Towns. I think it was ran during the first round and the theme of the story more or less kept coming back to the numbers. Say the Knicks are really, really good, but when you watch them play, you're like, it just, just doesn't quite line up. And the last seven games they've been, I mean, Oklahoma City's maybe been better in the playoffs, but I mean, the Knicks have been the second most impressive team in the playoffs easily. They are massive favorites to beat whoever comes out of this other series, which, you know, the Pistons and Cavs have both not been very impressive at all through their first 10 games in the playoffs.
- [22:10]
D
The one thing I will remind you of is that the Pistons really beat up the Knicks during the regular season.
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C
That's fine. I saw the, I saw the Brooklyn Nets beat the Miami Heat with LeBron three or four times in the regular season when they played in the playoffs. Didn't matter either. Like, I don't think that that version of the Knicks we saw in the regular season is not the version of the Knicks that's playing right now. And Detroit barely got by Orlando and they're struggling with a Cavs team that has been not impressive either. So maybe they won't win the series. They should go into the series as heavy, heavy favorites. And all they, you know, they came down here and you know, game two was close. Came down here. No, no, GN and OBI like, okay, this could be a little bit of an interesting situation for the Knicks. They control game three basically from the six minute mark of the first quarter till the end. And that the first six minutes are only because Paul George couldn't miss a shot. And tonight, like I said, they hit 12 of their first 13 shots, are up 20 in the first quarter. And it's just a, a laugher for the final 36 minutes of the game. I mean, Sixers starters are out of the game by the middle of the
- [23:17]
D
third quarter, say final 44.
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B
But sure, Jackson has this stat. The fourth team in NBA history to have multiple 30 point clinching wins. The other 3, 20, 25 Thunder think they ended up okay. 2008 Celtics, okay, you know, that was the big three, the beginning of the big three. And the 87 Lakers, how bad company prime show champs.
- [23:42]
D
And look, the Knicks had some really low lows during the regular season. Like I remember when the Mavericks went up there. Like it was a terrible Mavericks team that just blew them out and I forgot exactly what it was. But they were in a real rut then. I don't remember the Exact. I think it was like seven losses in nine games or something like that. But you don't have to be the best team all season. You have to be the best team at this point. And, you know, they, in that way, they. They kind of remind me of the 2011 Mavericks, who. That team won 57 games, but, like, there was some. Nobody really believed in them. There was some real blah stretches during the season. You know, they hadn't had any playoff success for the few years before that. You know, the Knicks actually had just not enough to keep their coach employed. But, you know, what the Knicks look like in February is not relevant to what they look like right now in May. And right now, they are absolutely playing like their peak of basketball. They're playing as, yeah, this is the
- [24:45]
C
best they've looked in this whole run by a mile. Like, I mean, and obviously it's easy to say that when they're. They're putting up these kind of point totals, but I mean, for, again, for a team that has felt like less than the sum of their parts for a couple of years and all the fits and starts they've had, like, the way they're. I mean, they're just an absolute machine. And it's fun to watch. And they're. I mean, it's wildly impressive.
- [25:08]
D
It's so fun to watch that 70% of the crowd in Philly were mixed fans.
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B
Yeah, well, here, here's.
- [25:14]
C
Here's what I want to say about that. The Sixers, I think, completely screwed up. Like, look, it's one thing for Joel to sit on the podium last week and say, hey, I don't want Nick fans to come to the game. Like, fine, Joel could say that for the Sixers to get out here and put out. I'll do all this PR campaign stuff over the last week. Oh, got to keep the Knicks fans out of here. We're going to geotag tickets. We're going to do this, we're going to do that. I mean, it's absolute nonsense. It's an hour and a half to get here from New York City. There's all sorts of Knick fans that live in Jersey that's. It's nowhere near as expensive to go to a game anywhere else than to go to the Garden for. All these people get a chance to go to a nick playoff game that they're never going to get to go to. They're going to pay through the nose for it compared to what people other paces will play because they're saving a ton of money compared to going to the Garden to watch a game. So the idea that the Sixers were ever going to keep Knicks fans out of the building was crazy. And all they did was put a giant cleeg light on the fact there were going to be Knicks fans in the building to begin with. And then when they lose on Friday, you had it perfectly set up where it's Sunday afternoon. The Sixers are down 30 in the series. Of course Knick fans are going to come here draws for the game. And of course they're going to have an absolute party when their team is 12 for 13 from 3 and completely flying along and winning the game by 30. Like, of course this is how it was going to go.
- [26:33]
D
And they had you as a pinata.
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C
They would add me as a pinata if there were three fans in here,
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B
let alone how many more times does Bon Temps have to mea culpa? He's done it twice. Does he?
- [26:44]
C
I've had plenty. I've had plenty of good calls. This was not a good call. So I, I can live with that.
- [26:50]
D
Missed it by that much.
- [26:51]
C
Hey, it's all, it's all good.
- [26:54]
B
Listen, I make you make predictions.
- [26:56]
C
Sometimes they work and sometimes they don't.
- [26:57]
B
There are some people who want us to, to, you know, beat you up, but I have been wrong once or twice.
- [27:04]
D
Ah, I'm more than willing to beat him up for the people. For the people.
- [27:09]
B
So post game, Joel Embiid had his exit interview. What did that entail?
- [27:13]
C
He was weirdly positive, I would say, specifically about his health. Like, I didn't. It's been a weird season for the Sixers. Like, even though it's been a weird
- [27:24]
D
two weeks, there are no weird Sixer seasons.
- [27:26]
C
Well, that's true to, to use Brian's line about NBA games. But like two weeks ago today, right, Joel beat. Came back in Game 4 against the Celtics. They got absolutely trucked. He looked terrible. Even though he put up good numbers, it looked like their season was over. Then Joel has probably the best three game stretch of his playoff career. They beat the Celtics, they have this great comeback. It's like, wow, maybe the Sixers finally have everything come together. He shows him for game one. He doesn't look right. Maxi hurts his finger in the second quarter of game one. They end up going on or game, I think it was game one or game two. Either way, he messes up his finger again. They get absolutely trucked in the series. They lose the final two games by a thousand points. That's all in two weeks. Like it's just, it's in it. And this is after last season when they're coming into the year, talking in the story I wrote before the season, talking essentially about, hey, we just got to get to the playoffs healthy, good. And then they completely go off a cliff. They tank to try to keep the
- [28:24]
D
top Sixers pick to successfully keep it and got to be.
- [28:28]
C
Got a stud. Vijay Edgecombe who had a mat like at 23, 6 and 4 on the road in game seven at Boston Garden. Like a game like game seven. A lot of guys don't have their whole career. He had it as a rookie. So it's very hard to like sum up where the season was at. But everybody with.
- [28:45]
D
But they would have been better off with a hard fought Game 7 loss in Boston.
- [28:49]
B
I, I'm not gonna say that's not.
- [28:52]
D
Yes, they would to get. No, they wouldn't have blown out.
- [28:55]
B
No.
- [28:56]
D
At your own home.
- [28:57]
B
Come on.
- [28:58]
D
Fans going bonkers.
- [28:59]
B
No way.
- [29:00]
D
No.
- [29:00]
B
Come on, bro, take that back.
- [29:02]
C
No, I'm not gonna, I'm not gonna.
- [29:03]
D
Humiliation of a series for the Sixers.
- [29:05]
B
Yeah.
- [29:06]
C
So the Sixers got. The Sixers got curb stomped by the, by the Knicks. But I'm not gonna, I'm not gonna say that they were better off not snapping their 44 year losing streak to the Celtics.
- [29:17]
D
Yeah, you don't have to say it. I said it.
- [29:20]
B
You want to know why I'm in trouble now? Because it's now my turn. Because Bon Temps ridiculously picked the Sixers. You make that ridiculous comment, it's I'm in the. I'm up. I'm up now. God knows what.
- [29:31]
D
You usually pretty good in this spot.
- [29:32]
B
I hope it doesn't happen on the pod. Maybe tomorrow on tv.
- [29:35]
C
But anyway, to get back to Embiid. So Embiid said, I don't want to, I don't want to mess this quote up because I, I think it's worth getting right. So he, he was very positive in his outlook about his knee. I've been, I'm as confident as I've ever been about referring to his health and his future. I think obviously my knee was the biggest concern and I'm not thinking about it. And as long as we keep doing what we've been doing, I won't have to think about it anymore. I'm looking at next year obviously being more available. The personal goals don't matter. I know that if I'm available and I play as much as possible, everything else is going to follow. And he also talked about how coming into the season. He didn't know if his knee was going to really ever work again. And he came out of the season feeling like they've got it under control and he's going to be able to go into the off season and have a normal off season of working out. Now, I am not going to sit here and say that, oh, Joel Embiid is now going to play 75 games next season. We're talking about a guy who missed a game in the series, was playing with hip and ankle injuries in the series, had an appendectomy a couple of weeks ago and has not had a healthy playoffs in his entire career and
- [30:45]
D
has never played 70 games in his entire career.
- [30:48]
C
That's right. He's played over the 65 game threshold twice. Other than that, it feels great.
- [30:52]
D
So the last three years have been 39, 19 and 38. Let's let like, I hope Embiid's right, the like. But come on, man, not.
- [31:01]
C
No, listen, I agree. I'm just repeating what the guy said. I was surprised at the, My point was I was surprised at the level of positivity that came from him about his health. I didn't think it was going to be that I feel this good about things.
- [31:15]
D
Put it like this, the guy's going to be earning more than a million dollars per game play because he's due 58.1 next year. Basically 62.7 the year after that. 67.4 the year after that.
- [31:28]
C
Well, oh, and look, I wrote, I wrote an obit on the Sixers. It's up now and basically like they've got this backcourt with Tyrese Maxey who's going to be an all NBA player for the first time and probably will be again going forward. He's awesome. We talked about Vijay Edgecombe. He had a phenomenal rookie year. He showed in these playoffs. He's absolutely not afraid. He's got a chance to be a full blown star. I think that's a great place to start. But they have 100 plus million dollars in Paul George and Joel Embiid the next two years and those guys have not been on the court. And because you have all that money tied up in those two guys, you can't do anything else with the roster, so you can't really trade them. And it's, you know, if they're available, great. But again, Jawal could say he feels great. I hope he feels great for his sake. But you have to assume he's going to miss at least 30 games if
- [32:23]
D
he plays 50 games and is healthy for the playoffs and you're like, that's awesome.
- [32:27]
C
They'll be happy with that, right? If he could play 52 games and then be healthy for the playoffs, they would, they would take that today. So it just puts them in kind of a strange spot where you've got this stud rookie on a rookie deal, which is exactly what you want to try to build a contending team. And because you've got these other two guys on maxes, it sort of cancels out.
- [32:47]
D
Well and they have, they have no depth. Like Quentin Grimes was a, was a good bench player. But like the.
- [32:52]
C
Who is an unrestricted free agent, right? Kelly Oubre had a great bounce back couple of years with these guys, has turned himself into a quality 3 and D role player on the wing after being a, you know, kind of an all offense, no defense guy in his career. He's unrestricted free agent. Like, are they going to pay to keep those guys? They better.
- [33:10]
D
And the Thunder have their first round pick. Do. Do they have anybody's pick? Are they, do they have a. Do they. I'm serious. Like, do they have a.
- [33:16]
C
No.
- [33:17]
D
I thought you first rounder.
- [33:19]
C
I thought you were making a joke. The Sixers have Houston's first round pick which they got from Oklahoma City as a result of the Jared McCain trade.
- [33:30]
D
Wait, Jared McCain, is that the guy who had 18 points in 18 minutes in a playoff win or right before the Sixers had fewer than that in a whole game off their bench?
- [33:38]
C
Considering the Knicks, the Sixers have been missing open threes all series and considering Jared McCain as we head into game four is. I am not kidding, nine for 11 from three point range in three games against the Lakers. Might have been helpful to have Jared McCain hitting some threes.
- [33:58]
D
Well, at least Daryl got to take a victory lap by telling the world that he sold high on that one.
- [34:03]
C
Yeah, so again, it's like the sick it.
- [34:07]
B
You can't win them all, guys.
- [34:08]
C
You can't win them all. As I'm evidence of when you lose,
- [34:12]
D
you probably shouldn't do a victory dance.
- [34:14]
C
Well, and that's. And that's why, that's why everything with this team is just at such a weird place because like on the one hand the young guards are awesome. It's a great place to build from. On the other hand, they're basically hamstrung to do really anything else around them going forward. And they really are realistically, at least for another season until Paul George is an expiring deal, probably even two years until Joel Embiid's an expiring deal. After that, Paul George comes off the books. So they gotta just kind of hope those guys can play. And these young guys keep getting better and I think DJ is going to get better and I think Tyrese will get better, but they're, they're not very deep and they don't have a lot of ways to add talent. And that's especially if they keep Oubre and Grimes. They lose either of them, I mean, then they're really hurting for depth and there's just not a lot of ways to add back from there.
- [35:02]
B
All right, well, Bon Temps will see in the Eastern Conference finals, I guess, which, by the way, we'll. The earliest they can start is Sunday, so we'll see about Cav's corner and Pistons.
- [35:15]
C
I suspect Cavs corner will be lingering on through the week, but we'll find out.
- [35:19]
B
Lingering. That's what you say about the James Harden powered calves.
- [35:24]
D
That's the chatter that you have.
- [35:28]
B
All right, well, we'll see if we get to the Cavs here before I wave the white flag on this podcast,
- [35:31]
D
but more Hoop Collective podcast after this.
- [35:41]
B
I did the lottery today, flew into Chicago this morning. It was a beautiful day for a lottery, boys. Beautiful day for a lottery. You know, it's one of my favorite days of the year. I'd never done the room before, and the room will never be the same after, you know, they let the media in basically for transparency. Okay. They let, you know, a handful of media members in. It was a very strong podcast media corps in there. Zach Lowe, Ryan Rossillo, myself. I feel like we could have all united, you know, if certain things didn't keep us apart. We could have all united in one big, glorious podcast. We could have done it live.
- [36:21]
D
You see that? He's trying to push us out of the live show business. Pontiff.
- [36:24]
C
Clearly just off the pod, Period.
- [36:27]
B
Exactly.
- [36:27]
C
Bigger names.
- [36:28]
B
I would love to trade for those two guys anyway.
- [36:33]
D
So he thinks they can sell high on us like Maurice.
- [36:37]
B
There's no. Clearly, trust me.
- [36:39]
C
Clearly, we'll be in the.
- [36:41]
D
We'll be in the playoffs when they've gotten sent home. I promise you that.
- [36:47]
B
Well done. You just redeemed yourself for that earlier take about the Sixers. Okay, so go in the room. And do we need to go over, like, the concept of the drawing room? Do we give our viewers and listeners credit for knowing that the actual lottery is drawn an hour before the show?
- [37:04]
C
Yes. Yes.
- [37:05]
B
Also, I think one thing that I would point out is that when you see the lottery on television, you know, it obviously goes from 14 backwards to 1, and 4 is revealed before 1. But when they actually do the drawing, 1 is drawn first. 1, 2, 3, and 4 are drawn, and then the rest of the previously established order is there. I just. I would point that out. So there's one representative from each team in there, and everyone's got their phones taken away from them, sealed, what have you. So there's these boards when you walk in, all the. The lottery combination. There's a thousand of them, are all on a board, eight boards. And then there's this woman. She's one of the league lawyers. Her name is Caitlin Canela West. And while there's people up there, like lawyers and Ernst and young people and whatnot, are up there looking at the lottery. This woman, Caitlyn, Caitlin, she is up there who makes. She figures out who wins each pick and makes the calls. And she is an expert at this. And she is like the bellwether guide. And so the boards, the eight of them, the farther left are the teams with the highest chances. The lower numbers have the higher chances. And so, like, if. If you have pick 1, 2, 3, 4, whatever, the ball, 1, 2, 3, 4,. Whatever, you have a more chance of one of the higher chance teams, and they're on the left side. And then if you pull ball 13, 14, those combinations tend to favor the longer shots, and they're on the right side. And so Sam Presti, the Mavs were
- [38:36]
D
right side correct last year.
- [38:38]
B
Right. And so Sam Presti, who. He was at your game Saturday night in. In LA, saw the Thunder go up 3, 0, blowout win, and gets in a plane, flies overnight and gets there, and he's in the room because the Clippers, they have the Clippers pick, which is a 12th pick.
- [38:53]
D
Well, he can make that kind of transition now because he's using less product in his hair. So it doesn't take him as long
- [38:58]
B
to get, you know, he has gone with a different hair look.
- [39:02]
D
Yeah.
- [39:03]
B
So we didn't talk about that. So he said, basically, he goes, I need case. He goes, caitlyn's a genius at this, and she's the one to watch. And he goes, I need her to go to the right.
- [39:13]
D
Yeah.
- [39:13]
B
He goes, I need Caitlin to be so far right that she's almost out the door. And if that happens.
- [39:18]
D
And here's the thing, he didn't. He doesn't need anything he would prefer.
- [39:22]
B
Okay. I don't remember the verb he used, but he might have said. Might have said want. So the first seven seats are the higher chance teams. And then there's a second row of seats. And so the first seat in the first row is for the biggest loser, the worst record. Now, the top three Nets, Pacers and Wizards all have the same odds, but the Nets. The Wizards had the worst record. So Michael Winger, team president, is sitting in the first seat. Okay, here comes the lottery. Balls 4, 2, 1 come out, and everyone's watching. Caitlin, she's moving left. Bro, those are low numbers. She's on the far left side. And as soon as.
- [39:59]
D
She's moving to tank territory.
- [40:01]
B
Right. As soon as four, two, one come out. As soon as the one comes out. Ted Wu, who's the assistant GM of the Pacers, he looks. I'm sitting like 10ft from winger. She. He looks at Winger and taps him on the hand. What I found out later was that after three balls, the war, the Wizards clinched it. They had every combination. That was.
- [40:23]
D
Dude, the Anthony Davis deadline acquisition is critical to winning the lottery. We know that now.
- [40:30]
B
Yeah, sure is.
- [40:31]
D
We'll see if the Wizards can parlay that value at the deadline next year.
- [40:36]
B
So I don't even remember what the last one number was. It didn't matter. It was known. The Wizards 1. So the Wizards won by a thousand. 1. Going away was a route. And Winger, who I've known for 20 years known. I know him when he worked four different organizations, he doesn't. He just sort of rubs his chin. He doesn't do anything. No reaction. But I know, and this is one of the things, is that you're in this room, and I know Bon temps. You've been in this room. Each one of these guys represents like hundreds of thousands, millions of fans and, you know, and their whole organization. And, you know, in this particular case, so many of these teams tanked.
- [41:14]
C
You know, it's one thing if it's like some random minority owner or, you know, some low, low level staffer or something. In this case, it's the guy who's, like, instituted the plan to do this. You know, that's a little different.
- [41:30]
D
And has had bad lottery luck until now.
- [41:32]
C
Yes.
- [41:34]
D
Well, that's SAR Wasn't bad lottery luck, but.
- [41:37]
B
Right. Well, certainly bad luck. Yeah.
- [41:39]
C
Bad luck last year.
- [41:40]
B
Yeah. So he. I know inside, I mean, you know, he. Decorum reigns, whatever. But I know inside that his whole.
- [41:50]
C
I believe they went 1 in 27 to end the season. They didn't do that to get the fifth pick.
- [41:54]
D
Yeah, they really worked for this one.
- [41:56]
B
You can imagine just what he must have been feeling inside in the moment. But he betrays nothing. So now we come to the second pick, and the first ball out is 14. Caitlin is headed right, boys.
- [42:11]
D
Uh.
- [42:11]
B
Oh, and the Clippers. Why say the Clippers? It's really the Thunder. Oh, the thunder have 15 combinations, okay? Eight of them have the number 14 in them. Oh, boy. So I am like, oh, and here's the thing.
- [42:28]
D
There is some. There are some puckered the guy. Other regions in that room at that
- [42:33]
B
point, Matt, this league lawyer, Matt Doria, who draws the balls, he lets like, 30. I don't know. Maybe it feels like 30 seconds pass.
- [42:40]
C
I doubt it. I don't think it's 30 seconds.
- [42:42]
B
Whatever. It's some period of time where you can look and you can look and see all the 14s on Thunder. And you're like, oh, my God. Like. And I'm thinking, like, can you imagine if the Thunder get the number two pick? Can you imagine that? And so, you know, I don't know what Sam was thinking. His face doesn't change. But. So 14 comes out, and she's all the way down there, right? But then the next three numbers, I don't even remember what they were. They were. They were low, and the word comes out. That has never been said in a lottery. In 40 years of the lottery, never once have the Utah Jazz ever moved up. In fact, they've only moved. They've moved down, like, five times, including last year. They lost, like, three spots. And for the first time ever, she announces Utah.
- [43:32]
D
All that tank had finally paid off. Tank note, baby.
- [43:35]
B
And Austin Ainge, who was sitting there with, like, his. You know, he was like, leaned forward, like, almost like, you know, and he goes, yeah. And he goes, yeah. It was the only emotion in the room. But he couldn't help himself. He's like, yeah. And I'm like, go for it. Like, celebrate, like, what you guys went through.
- [43:49]
D
And Presti's probably just staring daggers at
- [43:51]
C
him after all the grief the Jazz got this year across the board when there were all sorts of other people doing the same things they were doing, including the team that picked third and got absolutely no grief for it. Memphis, we'll get to in a second. Good for. Good for Austin and good for the Jazz.
- [44:05]
B
Yeah. So, you know, he celebrates, and now you're two picks in, so. And he just. He immediately. His body language changed. Like, he was, like, leaning all forward. He literally just left. Leaned back. You know, it's funny.
- [44:21]
C
Remember it was a couple of weeks ago where there was a tie break that they got to get the fourth slot instead of the fifth slot and that.
- [44:28]
D
Yeah.
- [44:28]
C
And you say, well, what's the difference between the fourth and fifth slot when the ping pong balls are the same? Well, in the event that, like, craziness had happened in four teams from the back half had jumped up. If the Jazz had finished fifth in the lottery positioning, they could have lost their top eight protected pick in the end till Oklahoma City. Anyway, so even though there was a 1% chance at the time, they were kind of sweating the coin flip for that too, a couple weeks ago. So, you know, that's. It's been an interesting couple of weeks for the Jazz.
- [44:57]
B
Okay, so they draw the fourth one, the third pick, and the first ball out is a four. And sitting down at the end of the first row is Zach Kleiman and the Memphis Grizzlies. And. And as soon as he hears four inside his head, he's like, bleep. Because all the combinations the Grizzlies had, there was no four. If you ever heard four, no dice. I'm sorry, it wasn't four. Two. Whenever two was, was heard no Grizzlies. If anything, with a two in, the Grizzlies couldn't win. So Zach was like, damn, we didn't get the third. You know, we didn't get one, we didn't get two. Now we didn't get three. They pulled the numbers and it's Utah again.
- [45:42]
A
Yes.
- [45:42]
D
The jazz get two and three.
- [45:44]
B
So after 40 years, never, you know, they were in the lottery 11, because remember, like the first, like 20 years of the lottery, they made the playoffs every year with Stockton and Malone. So they haven't been in that many lotteries, but they still, they were o of 11 in moving up in lotteries. Now they get up, they get moved up two in a row. So they redraw and the first number up and the redraw is 13. Oh, boy. We're headed right, boys. There goes Caitlin down to the right side. Now, this guy from the front office of the Charlotte Hornets, I'd never met him before. His name is Jake Stone. Young guy. I think he went to an Ivy League school. He was told by the owner or the Hornets, Rick Schnall. He's Rick, like the last thing, he goes, 13. Jake, anytime you hear third, all of our combinations have 13. And you hear 13, it's money for the Hornets. Well, the Hornets, you know, had five tenths of a, you know, half of 1% chance. So Jake here is 13. He's like, whoa. You know, whoa. He's. He's on the edge of his seat. But, you know, as he said to me, he goes, we only had five combinations like we needed. We needed a lot of help beyond just a lot of luck.
- [46:56]
C
We had a lot of luck for that.
- [46:58]
B
So the next number was four. Well, it's the Grizzlies who have all the fours. Oh, so that's when it changed. And so how are they gonna.
- [47:09]
D
How are they gonna find playing time with all those, you know, all those guys that they had down the stretch of the season?
- [47:14]
B
Anyway, the Grizzlies get the number three pick.
- [47:17]
C
Zach Edie can stay healthy, which is a huge if. Either Cam Boozer or Caleb Wilson, who will probably be the two guys sitting there for them to choose from at three. Three will be awfully fun playing next to Zach Gady. That is a very interesting spot.
- [47:29]
D
You know what's interesting is we're assuming Peterson's going to be a top two pick, and then the other guards at least. Listen, we don't know. We just know what people who know what they're talking about say. The other guards aren't supposed to be three or four. I. I can just say the lottery results will have no impact on the approach moving forward. John Morant. Like, they're going to try to find a home for John Morant regardless of where they ended up in the lottery.
- [47:54]
B
Okay, well, but they ended up.
- [47:56]
D
They've got.
- [47:57]
B
Yeah, and they did a fair amount.
- [47:59]
D
Stay healthy. Cedric Howard's a guy like, they. They've got a chance to start building something back up.
- [48:04]
B
I had way too much respect and decorum to bring this up to Austin, but. Austin, Ange. But I was like, I wonder after. After they. They got the pick 2 and 3. I wonder how much they were thinking about that $500,000 fine. Do you think that. Do you think that was still on their minds?
- [48:19]
D
Constant doing business for Ryan Smith? He was all right with it. I mean, he pays more than that for BYU's 12th. Man.
- [48:25]
C
If he'd have known he was getting the second pick and he could have paid for it, he'd have paid 100 times that. Maybe.
- [48:29]
D
Exactly.
- [48:31]
B
So. And you know, Memphis tanks pretty hard down the stretch, so they.
- [48:35]
D
Memphis, listen, the top three hardest.
- [48:38]
C
Memphis was the most egregious tanker.
- [48:41]
B
But you know what I was thinking about? As in, Zach was pretty passive. You know, he explained to me later what he was thinking, but I was thinking in my head. Memphis Grizzlies medical update. Now, I know some of them were a little. Little shaky down the stretch of the season, but there was a lot of Memphis Grizzlies medical updates over the last couple years that were, you know, putting karma in the bank. You know, they had. So, you know.
- [49:02]
D
But then down the stretch of the season, let's just be clear, they managed to put together a team that would not have made the G League playoffs.
- [49:08]
B
Correct.
- [49:09]
C
I saw Zach Kleiman in Kansas City at the Big 12 tournament and I said, you're gonna get the six. He said, I don't know, I don't know. I said, zach, I see what you guys are doing every day. You're gonna get to six. And they got to six and that got him to three. So they got to their spot and
- [49:27]
D
they have had some lottery luck over the years.
- [49:30]
C
Ja from 9, I believe that was, that was part of a coin flip that landed a certain way, positioning wise. And they jump up, got Jaren at four. I think that's. Oh, that actually was under maybe the old system, I don't remember exactly. But yeah, no, they've had some, they've had some picks and like I said, either one of those bigs, assuming, you know, knock on wood, Zach Eaty, who was very impressive in the little bit he was able to play, that's a pretty interesting front line going forward if they can stay on the court.
- [49:57]
B
Okay, so the fourth pick, this is where. Oh, this is where things got, you know, pretty nasty. Not nasty.
- [50:08]
D
The Clippers Pacers paradox is in full effect.
- [50:11]
B
Yes, that is exactly what happened. So Ted Wu gan clip Pacers front office. He is sitting in sort of seat two and sitting off by the media because the Clippers did not have a side on the dais, but the Clippers had skin in the game. And I am going to botch this gentleman's name. I just met him today for the first time. He's. He's a front, front office member. Hold on one second. Okay, I just met this gentleman today and I'm gonna, I'm gonna mess up his name. I want to apologize that I cannot pronounce his name correctly. I think it's pronounced something along the lines of Rishabh Desai.
- [50:59]
D
I know him and I don't know how to pronounce his name. Nice guy.
- [51:03]
B
Great, great guy. So he is. So Ted Wu is sitting there and he looks over at Reshab and they have like a little one second moment where they just gotta go, you know, like, oh boy, here we go. You know, because basically if the, if the, if the Pacers came up fourth, they keep the pick. If they don't come up fourth, The Clippers get the fifth pick is what it comes down to. So out come the numbers. And the first number up, I believe, is a seven. And that was really not good for the Pacers because The Pacers had 140 combinations of the thousand, so they have 14%, but only seven of their 140 combinations had the number seven in it. So right out of the gate, the first seven that comes up, they are down to 0.7. You know, whatever, seven tenths of a percent. Like, it's really bad. The Clippers percentages explode there. The next two numbers are six, and I think nine. And when that. Those two happened, the Pacers were down to one combination. So here we're down to the last ball of the lottery. The pacers needed a one, so a seven, six and nine had come out. There's 14 balls, a seven, six and nine had Come out, but they were still alive. There were 10 balls left. They needed. They needed the one to come. And if so, it's a 10% at that point. One comes out, they get the fourth pick. Anything else comes out, Clippers get the fifth pick. And I was watching Joe Tsai from the Nets sitting one seat over, and once the third ball came, the Nets were eliminated. And he just looked like he. He was ashen because, you know what the Nets. I mean, you know, and I felt can. You know, as much as I was happy for some people, I felt compassion in the room, you know. You know, I don't know how much compassion you feel for one of the richest men on the planet, but, you know, I know what they've.
- [53:14]
C
They made this trade with the Rockets, and I think it was the right thing to do in the situation they were in. And they set themselves up to be awful in the two years there were loaded drafts, and they dropped four spots last year at the worst possible luck they could have and dropped three spots this year. And it. You know, it's just. There's just not much else you could say than that, really. They just had terrible luck both years.
- [53:41]
D
And then. And then next year, the Rockets still have swap rights because they made a trade where they didn't even get all of their stuff back and they gave up four picks.
- [53:53]
B
Yeah, I think it really wouldn't even have made. Wouldn't even have made that much of a difference if they had not made that trade. I think.
- [54:02]
C
I guess they drop. I guess they only dropped back a couple spots. I guess it was two or three spots last year, not four. But, yeah, like, they. They were in the top five or six in the odds two years in a row and struck out both times. That, you know, that's why the lottery is a lottery and why it's far from a certainty that you're going to be up there if you're in the top four. And obviously that's the situation the Pacers found themselves in today also.
- [54:29]
B
So. And then the pace. One of the King's minority owners was. There has been one. Been one of their minority owners since even before Vivek bought the team. John Kis, I think his name, I probably botched that. But he was there and he was a very nice guy, very jovial. He was on one side, Austin Angels on one side and Zach Klein was on the other. And he's congratulating him, all of them through the whole lottery and he's got no luck. And they slide all the way back to seven. So the last ball comes up and it's not a one, it's a nine. And on the second row, the Bulls. They are the team that came up from ninth to move into fourth. Obviously a lot of excitement here in Chicago about it. They need to jump start. To jump start their thing. And so that's it.
- [55:13]
C
Bryson Graham gets a fourth pick and the 15th pick to start his tenure as executive with lead executive with the Bulls. See what he does with those?
- [55:20]
B
Yep. So I went down. So I will say this. As soon as the lottery ended, Sam Presti came over. He was one of the, He. He kind of came over from far away in the room and he got to Michael Winger and he shook Michael's hand and you know, Winger worked for him for seven years in Oklahoma City. I mean, in many ways, what Winger is trying to build in, you know, in Washington is modeled after the Thunder. I mean, he hired Will Dawkins from the Thunder to be his GM and
- [55:50]
D
Brian Keefe, an old Thunder assistant coach as well.
- [55:53]
B
He's bounced around the league. That's true. And so Winger says to Sam, hey, thank you so much for the note. And so I asked about that and apparently Sam sent Winger a note, you know, wishing him luck. So maybe sent it to everybody in the room, covered all his pieces.
- [56:12]
D
Did he send it to Austin Ainge?
- [56:14]
B
I don't. Can't speak on that. Don't know. The reason he's saying that is because the, the Jazz, the Jazz pick was top eight protected and they were not making. They were making sure it wasn't going to the Thunder.
- [56:25]
D
The Jazz pick has been protected for three years. I think it was 10, 88 or maybe 10, 10, 8, whatever. And turns out that the Thunder just took Derek Favor salary on as a charity project. They never got anything for it.
- [56:38]
B
Well, anyway, and so Winger said that he'd sent him a good luck note. So. Yeah. So I then went downstairs and the Jazz were, as you could imagine. I mean, obviously the Wizards. Wizards were over the moon. The Jazz, you know, Justin Zanuck, their gm, Danny Ainge, you know, they were just.
- [57:04]
C
It's huge for them. I mean, they're going to end up with one of these perimeter players to go with Giante George who was up on the deus and you know, with their, their big trio of Larry Markkanen and Walker Kessler and Jaren Jackson Jr. And Ace Bailey last year. Like, I mean this is exactly what the Jazz were trying to do. They're trying to be bad one more year, get one more high bite at the apple in a really deep draft. And like they, they could easily be in the playoffs next year. Like, they could be really good as soon as next year. Like, they got a deep, interesting team. Will. Will Hardy, friend of the pod, had to deal with a lot of losing the last several years. He can finally be unleashed to just coach for 82 games. I'm sure he'll be excited about.
- [57:47]
D
He's allowed to use his powers for good now.
- [57:50]
C
Yes, he is. So it's, you know, but they've, they've been doing this for a while and it, you know, it's. They're going to be a lot of fun to watch next year.
- [57:59]
B
I talked to both AJ Debanza and Darren Peterson. I had not met Darren. I met him today. I, I've known AJ For a while and talked to him and you know,
- [58:06]
C
new discovery, McMahon, he's got both the top two picks now. Add them to the list.
- [58:10]
D
When he's like some of these agents, he's pretty good at getting the top of the lottery.
- [58:14]
C
He knows how to identify the big stars.
- [58:16]
B
Yeah.
- [58:17]
C
Like himself.
- [58:18]
B
Saw Messiah. Jiri, the new president of the Mavericks
- [58:20]
C
and great, sorry guy, Mike Schmitz.
- [58:22]
B
And Mike. How about that? Mike Schmidt's our former colleague just hired as the general manager of the Dallas Mavericks. I got to.
- [58:29]
C
Sorry. You got a deal with McMahon now.
- [58:31]
B
Yes.
- [58:32]
D
He's thrilled.
- [58:33]
B
I know. So, yeah. You know, listen, in all seriousness though,
- [58:38]
D
like, with Messiah and Mike, they've got some guys who like, these are dudes who specialize in knowing what talent looks like. And obviously they didn't have lottery luck today. They're going to have the ninth pick. They've got the Thunder at the end of this, you know, the Thunders pick at the end of the first round and they've got a, they don't have a first runner next year, then it's Thunder swap. And then they, I forgot, oh, they've got the Lakers in 29 and then it's a Spurs swap.
- [59:07]
C
I got that Cooper guy though, so they'll be okay.
- [59:09]
D
Yeah, they got him. And they're gonna have to nail some late first rounders and they've got some guys who know what they're looking at.
- [59:14]
B
So Kevin Pritchard, the president of the Pacers was here and he immediately talked after the words and he's, you know, look, they made the trade at the trade deadline to acquire Vitze Zubac and the pick was top four protected and he openly admits that he feels terrible and you know his 50s, let's call Spade a spade.
- [59:37]
C
The Pacers made that trade because they're cheap. Like Vita Zubot's a good player but they made that trade and gave up a premium to get him because he's on a very good contract. And so they could probably stay under the luxury tax which they haven't paid in 20 years. And at the end of the day he's a really good player. But when the second they made that trade we were all like, wow, that is a high price to pay to potentially have all this losing and strike out and miss on this draft. And yes, I know they get their unprotected pick back in 2031, that's fine. This is a team that in theory is going to be in the mix next year. And if they had gotten the double bite at it and gotten Zubots and a top four pick in this year's draft to go with Tyrese Albert and getting back and Pascal Siakam and all the other guys, they have that, you know, that would have been a heck of a move, but it was a heck of a high wire act to take with this draft pick. And again like they don't, they didn't have a center in the first place because they decided not to pay Miles Turner, which I can understand honestly that
- [60:43]
D
that given the price that it wasn't doesn't look bad.
- [60:45]
C
I was going to say I can understand why they didn't pay Miles Turner. That contract doesn't look great. But they paid the price they did for Zubots both because he's a good player and because he had a pretty cheap deal relatively to, relative to his talent.
- [60:58]
D
Well, and here's part of Prichard's Post on X. I own taking this risk. Surprised it came up fifth after this year. I thought we were due some luck. You knew it was a coin flip. Basically.
- [61:12]
C
It was literally a 50, 50 coin flip. I mean, it was slightly like 48, 52, 48, whatever.
- [61:17]
B
When he spoke to the media, he articulated it a little differently. He said, if we would have paid a bigger price if we had to trade a pick that was top eight or ten protected, we wouldn't. We, you know. Or we do not get a player as good as Zubots.
- [61:34]
D
Well, of course, of course, because then the Clippers can do the math, too.
- [61:37]
B
And so he said, and we have our pick now in five of the. Look, I'm not defending him. I'm just telling you what he said, just to be clear.
- [61:43]
C
Well, it's not a matter of defending or not like it. Just the facts are what they are. The Pacers are not a team. I. The Pacers are not a team that pays a luxury tax. They haven't played the luxury tax in 20 years.
- [61:52]
B
They took a risk and it hurt and it didn't come up. Now, for all we know, I don't know who the fourth pick or the fifth pick of the draft will be. For all we know, they may take that 30, number 31 pick that they have or the 2031 pick that they have and put it with something else and end up getting another player in the next year.
- [62:09]
C
Sure.
- [62:10]
B
And it may work out. But what he was basically saying is, you may say to me, well, why didn't you protect the pick to 7, 8, 10? And he's like, I couldn't have gotten Zubots for that price.
- [62:21]
D
Yeah. Because then. Because then there's like no point. Because the Clippers, like, we're not going to get that pick.
- [62:26]
C
That's right. And that's why they got Zubots, because again, he is a good player who allows them to stay out of the tax.
- [62:33]
B
As for the Clippers, you know, the whole. At some point here, we're going to have the aspiration thing come down. It's very difficult to know what their pathway forward is until we find that out. But this, you know, this pick will enable them to continue their reset.
- [62:49]
C
It's going to be very instinct what they do. I mean, the, the, the, the draft, there's those top four guys. It's probably going to be one of Peterson and Debancer, that's probably going to be one of Boozer and Wilson, and then there's four or five guards in a row, whatever order you want to Put them in. Darius Auff from Arkansas, Keaton Wagler from Illinois, Mikhail Brown from Louisville, Kingston Flemings from Houston, Braden Buries from Arizona. Those are probably the next five picks. Maybe Nate Amanda's a big wing from Tennessee. All those guys are freshmen. But those guards are probably going to be at least three or four of those next picks. And the Clippers just traded for Darius Garland back in at three for James Harden back at the trade deadline. That's a bit of an interesting fit going forward. We'll see what they decide to do there. But certainly for a team that's bereft of young talent and is starting to pivot, another way to turn Zubots into the fifth pick in this draft. When we were back in November talking about, well, hell, are the Clippers going to be a not like out of the play in kind of playoff team and give the Thunder a top 10 pick, a top 5 pick, a top.
- [63:59]
D
I mean they were 6 and 21 at one point.
- [64:03]
C
So for them to, for their pick to end up at 12 and for them to get the fifth pick in the draft coming out of the season, obviously Zoo is a very good player and they traded him to get it. But that it is a pretty nice win for them to start to pivot things in other direction. As you said. As we wait to see whatever is going to happen, if it ever does with the aspiration stuff.
- [64:20]
D
Well, and then there's also like, we'll see what happens with aspiration, assuming they are allowed to attempt to negotiate an extension. I believe the intention is to try to negotiate an extension with Kawhi Leonard. But negotiate is a key word there. It's not just like, hey, can you take just a little slight haircut for Max? It's like. And so depending on how that goes, like, there's a world where Kawhi could be on the, on the block this summer too. So we shall see.
- [64:51]
B
Yeah, well, that this was a huge moment for the Clippers. And also in the chair, the Thunder pick didn't move up. So.
- [65:00]
D
Yeah, but that doesn't mean the Thunder can't move up higher if they want.
- [65:03]
B
I understand that. But if the Clippers didn't get the pick and the Thunder pick also moved into the top four.
- [65:08]
D
Oh yes.
- [65:09]
C
Imagine if the Pacers are picking third and the Thunder were picking fourth. That would feel a lot differently for the old Clips.
- [65:13]
D
Now the Thunder just have to find the next Jalen Williams for the 12 pick that they got from the Clippers.
- [65:18]
B
All right, I know the Cavs corner one, but it's late and they have another game tomorrow.
- [65:23]
C
We're going to have time to talk about Cavs corner because the Lake show is probably going the same way that the Sixers show went today tomorrow. So there'll be plenty of time to talk about Spurs, Thunder and our Spurs, Wolves and Cows Pistons later in the week.
- [65:38]
B
Sam Presti did not have any luck but he was coming there from his team being up 30 in a series. There was nobody else in that room
- [65:45]
D
who was hey, also poor Sam Presti. He's coming fresh off of watching a guy he picked in the second round who started his career on a two way contract last year completely dominated the Lakers in a playoff game. Talking about AJ Mitchell, who by the way since he's been in the starting lineup has averaged about 20 per game. You know, filling in for the lottery picker they got from the Clippers, Jalen Williams, who was an all NBA player on a championship team last year. Sam will be all right.
- [66:12]
C
It is just worth saying the last four guys we talked about, Vita Zubac, Kawhi Leonard, Jalen Williams and AJ Mitchell. As you said, Mitchell and Zubots were second round picks. Kawhi was picked at 15, Jalen Mitchell was picked at 2 12. R Jalen Williams has picked the 12. Obviously there's a ton of interest in the top of the draft and these guys at the top of the draft this year, particularly really good. But as we've seen over and over again, there's talent all throughout the draft. It is not a perfect science. And just because one of these teams didn't get the topic today correct, you're
- [66:41]
B
not going to line up with the best player in the draft. Yeah, and the Nets, the Nets were super bummed. But the sixth pick in this draft is a very good pick.
- [66:48]
D
Yes, well, and, and also like listen, there's the scouting aspect of it and then there's the player development aspect of it.
- [66:56]
C
Sometimes that part's as or more as much or more important.
- [66:59]
D
I was talking to an agent courtside before Lakers Thunder Game three who was just talking about like dude, the Thunder, like they don't get enough credit for their player development side of things. You talk about, I mean think about some of the guys they have making massive impacts. AJ Mitchell, Lou Dort was undrafted.
- [67:17]
C
I mean I think the Thunder get plenty of credit for their player. I say that with love. They, they, they are, they are the model organization.
- [67:24]
B
Case and Wallace, he was a water pick though.
- [67:28]
C
But yeah, they got a ton of talent and they've also, they, I mean they do everything right. That's why they're. That's why they're the heavy favorites to repeat as champions.
- [67:35]
D
I thought it was because they got a bunch of whistles.
- [67:37]
B
Yeah, well, I think, I think they're. I'm not going to get into that, man. Just out here jabbing, not taking out here jabbing. All right, thank you to our producer Mark. It was a big weekend for producer Jackson.
- [67:52]
C
Well, I was gonna say Jackson. I thought you were gonna skip by it. Jackson finally engaged. Finally.
- [68:00]
B
I'm not gonna put any pressure on finally, but Jackson got engaged and he's
- [68:06]
D
like 21 years old.
- [68:07]
B
The photos. I've never seen the photo that we saw of Jackson after his engagement, it was. Was the happiest. He looked extremely happy in the photo. That made me happy.
- [68:16]
D
Well, we never see him happy because we kind of make his life easy.
- [68:20]
C
He's got a deal with you. Of course.
- [68:22]
B
We kept him up till like 5 or 6 in the morning putting the pod together the other night. And then he got engaged like the next day. Can you imagine that? Like we were holding him up. He was worried about.
- [68:31]
C
Privately, Jackson had told us that there was a time limit and it was coming up, so I, I had a feeling it was coming pretty soon. I didn't know it's going to be Friday, but. But we are thrilled for Jackson and Nina is lovely bride to be or both. Great.
- [68:44]
B
Congratulations.
- [68:46]
D
She's better than he is, but.
- [68:48]
B
Yeah, she's got like a high level.
- [68:50]
C
I didn't say she wasn't.
- [68:52]
B
Jax went to Syracuse. She's got like a degree from Yale. All right, thank you for listening and watching the Hoop Collective. Thank you to McMahon and Bontems. We'll talk to you guys later this week after the next Wolves spurs game. God knows what's going to be going on on Tuesday night.
- [69:08]
D
Fellas, let me show you how this is done. Adios, amigos.
- [69:23]
E
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