← Brian Windhorst & The Hoop Collective
Brian Windhorst & The Hoop Collective
Wemby & Spurs A Legit Contender? Knicks In Elite Category? + Windy's Epic Journey
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Hoop Collective: Wemby & Spurs A Legit Contender? Knicks In Elite Category? + Windy's Epic Journey
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- [00:01]
A
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- [00:35]
B
Welcome to the Hoop Collective podcast. We talk about the NBA which we're doing on various times of the day in the various time zones that we're in. Joining us from Las Vegas where he is covering the NBA cup where we have the final coming up on Tuesday, Knicks versus Spurs is Tim Bontemps.
- [00:57]
A
I mean there's only two, I think there's only two time zones on the pod given our co host is not too far away from me in Vegas. I will also say, Brian, at lunch this afternoon I I got the very great pleasure of sitting with a couple of folksy guys, our guy Ben McMahon and Michael Corleone, right? And watching McMahon and a watching Corleone and McMahon go back and forth talking about 1990s high school football players in Texas where they're rattling off a two dozen players who went to various colleges that they played with and against.
- [01:33]
B
And sure, as a New Yorker you took that very well.
- [01:36]
A
Oh, I thought it was great. And then on top of that they start arguing about what the wing tea is. So McMahon starts getting salt shakers and Petra packets and is diagramming wing tea plays from their high school days. And then they're going back and forth about that. It was a delightful, was a delightful brunch with my.
- [01:55]
B
Well, our favorite Texan, with all due respect to Mr. Wright, is also joining us from Las Vegas. He's got a better hotel next door. As you can see. He's higher status at the company. It's Ben McMahon.
- [02:09]
C
Howdy Partners. To be clear, the wing T was during my sentence in Maine. That was not during my Texas days. But I was definitely diagramming a little bit of 28 sweep, waggle and all those sorts of things.
- [02:21]
B
I am joining from London where I am at the end of a four day three country little trip this weekend which I'll talk about in a few minutes. Had top three basketball experience of my life this weekend, gentlemen. And it Wasn't close. Which I will tell you about a little later on after.
- [02:40]
A
We just try to pump up the fact that he missed his two discoveries going head to head here in Vegas.
- [02:45]
C
I was gonna say we had a pretty good. Pretty good one here with, you know, it was.
- [02:50]
B
But I, I watched, I watched the high points after I got up on Sunday in. In London.
- [02:56]
A
After he missed the whole thing.
- [02:58]
B
I did. What do you want to say? I felt like my time was being used wisely. I'll just put it that way. All right. Before we go into NBA cup, we do have a significant development slash announcement starting with this podcast. We are very happy to say that things are going to look a little different at the Hoop Collective. Same NBA content, same talking about the NBA. But in a transaction that we are very excited about. We are now a part of Omaha Productions. Great team with the Manning family and a lot of great folks who are. We are very looking to joining. And so nothing will change. Still on all the ESPN platforms, you will still be able to get the podcast in the same places where you download it and where you watch it. Just have some terrific new teammates. And Jackson, very happy to report Jackson is now a member of the Omaha team. So I said we weren't coming unless we brought Jackson and Syracuse responded by losing to Hofstra. Okay.
- [04:03]
A
We got our dig in. I was waiting for that.
- [04:05]
B
That's perfect. That news made it to me across the Atlantic. Somehow that broke through.
- [04:10]
A
Oh, it sure. Oh, it sure did. On our. On our group text. Yeah, Omaha is going to be great. Quality is going to be better across the board. It's going to be awesome.
- [04:20]
B
Not the content. The content will be equal. Isn't typical, average, but the quality of the delivery will be.
- [04:25]
A
That's right. I emphasize the quality for a reason.
- [04:28]
B
Yeah. Okay. So I was talking. I was talking to an NBA executive today and he said something interesting to me. I'll see if you guys agree with this. He said, you know, I think the four best teams in the NBA were in Vegas. That's interesting. Now, there may be some.
- [04:47]
A
I would have a pretty hard no on that.
- [04:49]
B
Okay.
- [04:49]
C
I would too.
- [04:50]
B
Maybe some folks in Los Angeles and Houston may say some things.
- [04:54]
A
Some people in Denver, not Los Angeles. Yeah, I think.
- [04:59]
B
Well, you may not say Los Angeles, but.
- [05:01]
A
Well, I mean, the Lakers can say what they want. I think the two teams that have the best argument for the. That are. Well, three. I would say Houston, I would say Denver, and I would say the team that has the best record in the Eastern Conference, the Detroit Pistons, I think, are the three teams that have the best argument. I certainly think that you would have to put Detroit, at minimum, over the magic right now, especially in light of we'll see what happens to Jaylen Suggs. But he did not look very good leaving the arena after hurting his hip in that game. But I, I think the Knicks at least have an argument to be in that conversation. And certainly, you know, the spurs have been awfully good without Victor, and now that Victor is back, that was, I wouldn't say it was as good as the Rockets Thunder game that McMahon was at on opening night, which I think will be the game of the year all the way through. However, it was a hell of a game, hell of an atmosphere seeing Victor come back, going up against Chet, which is you laid out a few years ago, Brian, with your two discoveries. They do not like each other at. And that was evident in the way this game played out. And the spurs were awfully happy to get that win. And While the Thunder, McMahon and I witnessed after the game were in a perfectly fine mood and realistically understand where they're at as 24 and 2, they were not thrilled to let that one get away. And I think, you know, Shay Gills Alexander, I thought, had a perfect response to it, saying, this is like when you fail a test in school and you get to retake the test right away. Because they're going to see the Spurs a couple more times in the next couple weeks and I suspect the Thunder are going to be ready for those games.
- [06:42]
C
They got a home and home, the 23rd and Christmas Day.
- [06:45]
A
That's right.
- [06:46]
B
I mean, if you, if you needed any more, you know, it's not 100%, you know, the way the league is this year and the way the matchups are. I know that there's like a featured game, but because there's football, sometimes it's not as like it used to be. I'm telling you, like, how about Spurs, Spurs, Thunder on Christmas Day? Like, great scheduling.
- [07:08]
C
And how about Spurs, Thunder for the next decade? And that's what we've got a chance to have here is a rivalry. And look, the Thunder are going to be a dominant team for a long time. For the health of the league, you need some real challengers, some real rivals. And this has got that kind of potential. And this was, you know, for the Thunder. Look, nobody over there is sweating being 24 and twos. Oh, my gosh, we lost. Okay. You know, they didn't want to lose the game, but they're not, you know, they'll study the tape, learn from it, blah, blah, blah. For the spurs, though, this was a real chance to kind of make a statement of, hey, we're here, you better take us seriously. And they've got a chance to be a force for a long, long time to come. Because it's not just Victor Wembanyama, as they proved, going nine, three without them. Those young guards, man, those guys. Victor's not the only great defensive player on that roster. Victor's not the only gamer on that roster. Now, Victor has a nice little French accent, so it comes across a little bit, you know, classy, I guess you could say. But he's got a little troll in him. Little troll he likes. Yeah.
- [08:26]
B
And he said. He said some more stuff just in the last few days.
- [08:29]
C
Yeah, the. And he left a lot of room for interpretation. But when he paused and said, bon Sims, you asked the question, right?
- [08:39]
A
That is correct.
- [08:40]
C
Okay.
- [08:41]
A
So I asked Victor, I asked Victor Wembanyama, how much fun was it to get back on the court after a very long wait. You've been chomping at the bit to play and to do so on this stage against this team and against a guy in Chet you've had a lot of battles with in the past. And I mentioned Chet on purpose because I was hoping it would lead to a decent answer. And Victor, in his way, delivered a decent answer. And people have probably seen bits and pieces of it by now, but I would like to read the answer because the end of it in particular was a very good answer. He goes, oh, you can't imagine. It's just incredible. I kept asking these guys for the last 12 games, just get better and do some beautiful things. And I just wanted to be a part of it. I'm glad that we can still do it when I'm here. I'm happy with that, of course, but I'm just glad to be part of something that's growing to be so beautiful, so pure and ethical basketball.
- [09:42]
C
Pure and ethical basketball, which you could take, is just.
- [09:47]
A
He likes the way the spurs are playing. You could also take it as a jab at his arch rival. And the team that could be. They could. Will be their arch rivals, I think, for a while. Along with, by the way, we're talking a lot about Spurs Thunder. That's going to be a great rivalry. We were talking about this at lunch with Corleone. The Rockets are also a team with a bunch of young studs and are going to be awesome for a long time. And then, by the way, you've got Cooper flag in Dallas where if they can get their act together around him, like, yes, they've got a lot of catching up to do. But that's a pretty nice place to start too.
- [10:20]
B
Like, sounds like an i35 corridor situation.
- [10:23]
A
I mean, just the whole Texas Triangle plus is going to be an unbelievable episode.
- [10:29]
B
McMahon has so many 36 minute flights in his, his future.
- [10:34]
C
It's like 42 to Houston.
- [10:36]
A
He's gonna be adding up segments like crazy. It's just awesome, though.
- [10:42]
B
I mean, I, I made a. I'm, you know, you guys will make fun of me. You can make, I mean, Bon Temps can make fun of me on this. I'm, I'm open. I'm opening myself up for mockery with what I'm about to say. Okay, you're good at that. I, I viewed what I did this weekend as a pilgrimage. I viewed going to see the first game between Chet and Victory as a pilgrimage. Yeah, because you had to be there for your discoveries.
- [11:08]
A
You had to make sure you announced to the world you discovered these two guys who were drafted first.
- [11:13]
B
There's a difference between becoming familiar with and investigating and discovering. And that's, you know, But I felt from day one, and it is probably one of the most energizing moments I've had in the last 10 years in the NBA was the first quarter or the first half that those two guys played and what they said about each other after the game or didn't say, and their interaction that they had after the game. And I always remember it, and I would love it if this is just the beginning of many. Although I certainly am not taking anything off the table for any of the other challengers in the west, particularly Denver and particularly Houston.
- [11:51]
A
Well, listen, the other teams are still going to be there, but these guys, assuming health, these teams are going to be botting heads for a long, long, long time.
- [12:01]
B
Yeah. Assuming health. Chet Holmgren is going to, I believe and hope be a big part of USA Basketball. And you know, Victor is. One of Victor's biggest missions is to bring a gold medal to France. And it is one of the things that has upset him. Not upset, but is something that he is, wants to get over in his career. He's lost now to the Americans twice in gold medal games. He's only, you know, 21, 22. Yeah, it's happened twice and he's in.
- [12:33]
A
And the real, the real genesis of the rivalry of those two guys is that under 19 championship game in the World cup four years ago, where ironically, Kenny Lofton, who is a Guy who was bounced around as a two way was really the star of the game for Team USA. A 6, 7 cinder block of a guy to help them get that win down the stretch.
- [12:55]
B
That is actually interesting to point out because down the stretch of this game with Oklahoma City, the Thunder did something that we've seen them do before and I think we'll see them do again, which is they didn't use Holmgren always on Victor.
- [13:07]
C
They used very rarely guarded Victor one on one.
- [13:10]
A
That's the thing.
- [13:11]
C
As much as we're talking about these two guys as a matchup, it's really not that much of a matchup. And a lot of teams are using the bigger, stronger wings, in this case J Dub or Alex Caruso, and then sending bodies at Victor. And even when Victor was playing great in the first half, every time he put it on the floor, it was like. I mean, it was like a ball carrier trying to hit the hole. Like the defense was swarming him. Chet didn't guard him a whole lot.
- [13:42]
B
Chet.
- [13:43]
C
And Chet doesn't take the toughest individual assignment very often, especially when Hartenstein's healthy, because he's just so devastating as a help defender. That's where he's just an absolute dominant force defensively. Now, Victor did guard Chet a little bit more, and at one time in particular, Chet was very determined to score on him and very unsuccessful doing so. It was returned to cinder with some emphasis. But, yeah, it's that that individual rivalry is a lot of fun, but they're not out there playing one on one against each other very much at all.
- [14:23]
B
Yeah, and I actually think that the other direction, I was talking to some scouts and look, I want to be clear here again before I say this, because it's not like anybody shutting him down, but in recent games, some of the strategy. I think Phoenix did it, Minnesota did it, and the Lakers. Oh, I'm talking about defense on Shea.
- [14:52]
C
Oh, on Shea. Okay.
- [14:53]
B
Yeah, pivoting there. Sorry. So we talked about the defense on. On Victor. I was talking to some scouts and they said that the book right now on Shea, not that it shuts him down. To be clear, despite the fact that Shea is an expert at drawing fouls, is to play with increased physicality, even if that means putting a shorter defender on him, because teams try to put length on him because he's so tremendous at shooting. And this was definitely the strategy for Stefan Castle, who, especially late in the game, there was the one possession where Castle was on Shea and he just. Shay couldn't really down the stretch. I would say in general, Shea couldn't get to his spots. Which one of the things about Shea's game is that his ability to get to his spot no matter what and do it at his speed and his tempo.
- [15:50]
A
Well, the possession you're talking about, to be clear, was the Thunder got the ball down four with 38 seconds to go. Prime opportunity to go for a two for one. And Che was trying to get the two for one and trying to get into the paint, and it just took him 14 seconds to do so. And so by the time Chet got it, Chet got the ball at the rim and ended up getting fouled by Victor, they were down to, I think, I think there was 24, three on the clock. And so their chance to get a 2 for 1 went away, which is where we got into the annoying, you know, back and forth intentional foul game for the final 24 seconds. But that was all generated by the spurs perimeter defense not letting Shea get to a shot with 31 or 30, 32 on the clock to give them a chance to just play defense one time and have a chance to tie or win the game.
- [16:37]
C
And the Thunder felt like they got too stagnant offensively. They felt like they didn't move the ball around, they didn't move and really.
- [16:45]
A
They a lot of individual isolation, ugly possessions for them.
- [16:49]
C
And they're, they're usually a great ball movement team. Even though Shays obviously one of, if not the best one on one score in the league right now, but they felt like you get, you got to make Victor moves. So it's not even making, you know, the shell move, it's making the best rim protector maybe that we've ever seen move. They felt like he was able to kind of plant himself near the basket way too easily. But again, like, the spurs have some dudes on the perimeter defensively. Stefan Castle, as much as we've talked about Amend Thompson, Stefan Castle's that type of defensive talent, plus he's a guy who can go to LA and give you 30. Dylan Harper has a chance to be a really, really good defender. I mean, he is a big, physical guard who wants to defend. Who cares about that? It's not. Victor Wimanyama is not the only reason that the spurs are an elite defensive team. He's the primary reason, but he's got some dudes with him that are really, really good on that end of the floor.
- [17:54]
A
Well, I, I told McMahon and Mike this last night during the game. I haven't seen the spurs play in person in a while because they obviously they haven't been in the Northeast this year. Last year, most of the year they were without Victor. They're a massive team across the board. Like, all their guards are big. Dear Fox might be the smallest guy they play and he's six four and long. Dylan Harper's a big guard. Castle's a big guard. Devin Vassell is a big wing. Champagne. Yep. Harrison Barnes has obviously been, you know, a long standing stretch for Kelton. Johnson is a bigger wing. Like every guy, they, well center, but.
- [18:36]
B
They play him, they play him with Victor sometimes.
- [18:41]
C
By the way, I did clarify with Luke Cornett. The celebration when he rejected was that in Charlotte when he had the game saving SWAT and he, he said that was definitely Vince Carter, not Usain Bolt. This was what he was trying to.
- [18:54]
A
Yeah, I can't remember if it was Charlotte or Orlando. Might have been in Orlando either way. But yeah, like, they're just a big, physical team across the board. Like you think about, like we think about the Thunder and how physical they are on the perimeter with their guards and how they get into people defensively. But like you watch the spurs when they're out there and like Shay's going up against a bunch of guys are the same size as him, which isn't usually the case across the board. There's not an obvious guy for him to go at. And it, it was, it was awfully impressive to watch. And I, I joke with a couple of the spurs guys. Yesterday when I saw him, because I hadn't seen him in a while, I was like, hey, look, guys, like I, I was excited for what you guys are going to be this year. I didn't think you're going to be anywhere near this good man's obviously going to win this bet in a route. And I mean, they're that, like it's fair to talk about them like they're a legitimate, you know, especially Victor can stay on the court. They're one of the four best teams, I think in the West. I think it's clearly the spurs in some order. The Thunder obviously first and then I would probably have the spurs behind the Rockets and Nuggets. But if you told me the spurs end up in the top three if Victor stays on the court, like the way these guys have developed, it's not a surprise at all, which is why.
- [20:06]
B
I think for Christmas Day, so that'll be the third time they see each other. Hopefully everyone stays healthy for that stretch. And you know, as we're talking about this, Victor didn't start this game and only played 20 minutes, 21.
- [20:19]
C
But yes. And they sat him.
- [20:20]
A
The first 50, obviously is also coming back from a minutes limit on the other side. Not as impactful as Victor, but still.
- [20:27]
C
First time the Thunder had their starting five since game seven, the finals and the first time that San Antonio had their core group together. When you talk about Harper, Fox, Castle and Wimby.
- [20:38]
A
All right, it was their first practice together all season.
- [20:41]
C
Yeah.
- [20:44]
B
So I would love to see two games in a couple weeks here, whatever it is, 10, 12 days to watch how that develops. I'd love to see that. Let's talk about their opponent coming up because the Knicks. I ran into a Knicks fan over here in London and he was telling me how he's been a, he's a season ticket holder and he was telling me that he genuinely gets emotional when watching Jalen Brunson play, partially because the Knicks, he's wanted a player like this for decades and he's. And you know, he didn't get to see Brunson's game the other night because he was over here. But, you know, Brunson had. Goes for 40 in another brilliant performance in leading the Knicks to a win over the Magic. I think they won by 12. And you know, the Knicks, like, look, you know, there were times where we weren't sure how they looked early in the season when they've got their full team, which, which they have at the moment because, you know, Anunoby is back and Josh Hart's playing well and Towns had, you know, he's not going to shoot this well every game, but Towns had a good shooting game, you know, and you got Brunson doing Jalen Brunson. Like they're an extremely formidable team and.
- [22:12]
A
And they currently don't have Deuce McBride who's been on an absolute heater and shooting 45% from three. They got really good minutes in this game for Tyler Kolik who played really well off the bench. But like, they're that much better when they have McBride able to come off the bench with Mitch too. Like, they're. And they're, they've been in a really nice rhythm for the past few weeks. And you know, obviously they, they played great in this game Saturday, though, in the first half. I mean, Jalen Suggs and Jalen Brunson were going back and forth. Suggs at 25 at halftimes, the best offensive half of his career. He was amazing and it was just a real bummer happened right in front of me. He tries to drive in in the third quarter. Og Anunoby steals the ball away from him and he immediately let out a yell. He was grabbing at his hip after that, couldn't stay, tried to stay in the game for a while. Eventually came out and Suggs is one of my favorite players in the league to watch. He's like an evolutionary Marcus Smart almost from his prime days in Boston. He's constantly flying around making plays. The Magic are way better when he's out there and playing well. And I just hope this injury isn't a long term thing because that would be a. On top of losing Franz for a while with this high ankle sprain. That would be really rough if they lose Suggs for a while too. But the second half, the Knicks just really took over and Carl Towns played great. Hart and Bridges were making shots like this was they shut. This was a game that was Division 61 in this game against a good defensive team. And this I, this game was really a vision of what Mike Brown wants this offense to be because yes, Jalen Brunson was the headline guy with 40 and 8 and taking 27 shots in this game, shooting 16 for 27. But you've got OG Anunoby with 24 and 13 shots. You've got Carl Towns with 29 and 11 shots. You've got Josh Hart with 12, 6 and 6 on 12 shots. You got Bridges with 16 on 13 shots like that. That's what Mike Brown wants. That's what these guys want, is an egalitarian move the ball. Jalen Brunson with the ball more than everybody else, but not having to pound the ball and create every single shot like he did last year and against a really good Magic defense. You saw the Knicks control this game with offense and that's why they're playing San Antonio on Tuesday.
- [24:20]
C
Well, and there are questions about what the ceiling is. Is there a championship ceiling with a small ball dominant Gore like Brunson? And I would say that's a fair question. I would also point out that as you said, he's less ball dominant now and then. It's, it's. I don't know what egalitarian means, but I think it means touching it.
- [24:44]
A
That is what it means. Share the ball.
- [24:47]
C
Like, listen, the Knicks got relevant again after they signed Jalen Brunson. And you know, you can doubt all you want, but he's a small ball dominant guard who has a track record of showing up in the playoffs. And you know, he's a, he's a champion going back to Villanova, you know, when he had a chance with The Mavericks when they desperately needed him. Luke is out with a Castra and the Guy goes for 41 and 31 and wins over the Utah Jazz. And he's consistently showed up in the playoffs for the Knicks. So I'll take my chances with that guy as the face of the franchise and as the dude is going to have the ball in his hands more often than not.
- [25:28]
B
Yeah. So, you know, the thing is when Jalen Brunson is in his bag and on his game like this, they elevate to another level. And offensively they remain the number two offensive team in the league. I think they're in the top five in most shooting categories and you know, they've got a lot of different guys they can go to. Especially, especially when, you know, when Anunoby and Towns are moving and even, even Bridges. He's having a strong season and so.
- [25:59]
C
And Cat really hasn't gotten rolling yet.
- [26:02]
B
Correct. And so this is a great opportunity for the Knicks. Look, the Knicks, let's just be honest. You can make fun of the NBA cup if you want. You can make fun of putting the banner up. I'm not sure I'm down with putting a banner up for it.
- [26:14]
C
It's a ribbon.
- [26:15]
B
It's a ribbon. Although I was at. Well, I'm not even going to say that, but I.
- [26:23]
C
Come on, you can't do that.
- [26:25]
B
No, I'm not going to say that. But they haven't, they haven't put up much to celebrate. You know, they haven't put up anything. They haven't put up any ribbons in a long time, much less banners.
- [26:37]
C
Hey, I will say this. The spurs were awfully happy to advance to the championship game. I think Kelton Johnson in particular, he's on this quest to buy a llama. He's, you know, certainly I think he's got enough for several llamas at this point with the bonus money. But you know, I thought he was.
- [26:53]
B
Trying to get his own show like DJing on Sirius.
- [26:56]
C
Well, that's the thing. As, as, as old Michael Country Wright told told me on the hit show, hit YouTube show Howdy Partners.
- [27:03]
A
The Foxy. The Foxy Show.
- [27:06]
C
Mike loves the word folksy also. Anyways, Kelden travels with like the modern day version of a boombox, you know like the speaker, Bluetooth and all that and has very eclectic musical tastes. And so last night the visiting or the, the losers interview room, the smaller interview room was neighboring the spurs locker room. So. So we're sitting in there waiting for Dagonal party in the usa Miley Cyrus is blaring through the walls from the spurs locker room now. They did. They managed to get him to turn it down before, before Dagonaut's press conference started.
- [27:43]
B
But.
- [27:44]
C
But yeah, it was party in the USA in the spurs locker room. They're pretty excited. And again, hey, good for them. A young team that it's not a statement win that they're better than the Thunder. Like, we're not going to go overboard. It's a statement win that they're on a big stage and they deserve to be there and maybe, you know, get used to them being on those kind of stages.
- [28:07]
B
That would be great. So looking forward to Tuesday night. Looking forward to you gentlemen covering it.
- [28:13]
C
Oh, I'm going home.
- [28:14]
B
I'm going home.
- [28:16]
C
The thunder, the thunder bounced and I'm heading home, baby. This is a Corleone, Vinnie Goodwill and Bon Temps production from.
- [28:22]
B
All right, fine. Then I look forward to waiting. Waiting for, for Bontemps to finish working so that we can record the podcast.
- [28:31]
A
Thankfully. Thankfully for us and our recording time, the Thunder lost. Because if the Thunder had won, God knows you'd have been up till 4am waiting for for McMahon to craft his missive dot com. So we'll be done. We'll be ready a little sooner now.
- [28:46]
C
More Hoop Collective podcast after this.
- [28:50]
B
Good morning crust. It's a great day to be a bread brother.
- [28:55]
C
Mornings are not my jam or jelly.
- [28:58]
B
Oh, come on. Stop loafing around.
- [29:00]
C
I just woke up feeling hollow inside.
- [29:03]
A
Just grab one of the new morning.
- [29:04]
B
Uncrustable sandwiches like Bright Eyed Berry or.
- [29:07]
C
Up an apple filled with 12 grams.
- [29:09]
B
Of protein and tons of deliciousness. Crust. What are you eating?
- [29:14]
C
It's just granola.
- [29:15]
B
Not even yogurt.
- [29:17]
A
No crust, no fuss. Uncrust your mornings.
- [29:20]
B
Hey, what's up, y'? All? Kelly Clarkson with Wayfair. My favorite thing about the holidays, Decking out my whole house. It's not a competition. But if it was, well, I'd win the season with Wayfair Outdoor Inflatable Santa.
- [29:31]
C
Got it on Wayfair.
- [29:32]
B
Trees, lights and ornaments. Wayfair hosting must haves like dining, set beds, sheets and towels. Wayfair for everything in your style. Delivered with fast and free shipping. Visit Wayfair.com or the Wayfair app to win the season. But again, it's not a competition. Wayfair Every style, every home. Fire is the only pure thing in this world. On December 19, the world of Avatar will change forever. There's something you're hiding.
- [30:01]
A
Tell her it is time.
- [30:02]
C
From director James Cameron.
- [30:04]
B
This world Goes much deeper than you imagine. Get tickets now. Movies don't get any bigger than this. The day has come. Avatar fire and dash WPG 3 may be inappropriate for children under 13. Get tickets now. So we had a couple of unfortunate situations in the NBA happen. The Cavs, who are just, they're having a bit of a. They had a charmed season last year, having a bit of a cursed season this year, particularly with injuries. And they have another set, a double setback. One is short term. They lose to the Charlotte Hornets at home tonight, which is just a tough loss. They were coming into a stretch of six games here leading into Christmas Day where they were playing, you know, basically six of the weaker teams in the league. And they were hoping to sort of pivot around on this. They beat Washington by two points on Friday.
- [31:06]
A
Yeah, Don Mitchell had 48 in the game and had 24 in the fourth. He had 24 in the fourth quarter to truly escape with a win over the Wizards.
- [31:16]
B
Yeah, no offense that was in Washington, but no offense to the Wizards. But the Cavs, that was not a strong performance. And then they lose it home to Charlotte.
- [31:23]
A
I don't think they're. I don't think the Wizards would be offended by saying that. The reality of the situation.
- [31:28]
B
They lost to Charlotte overtime, gave up a three pointer to Brandon Miller with less than five seconds left on Sunday. They lose at home in overtime to Charlotte.
- [31:36]
A
And by the way, we're losing the entire game. And it would have been a great escape to escape.
- [31:41]
B
Another escape.
- [31:42]
C
I was gonna say, yes, their second straight great escape against a.
- [31:46]
A
And then they didn't. They didn't score. They didn't score in overtime at all against.
- [31:51]
B
They didn't score one point.
- [31:52]
A
No. And yeah, look, I mean, you obviously said, as you said before, Brian, the Cavs had a charm season last year. They are, they are having a lot of injuries this year. But as we've talked about before, they have a roster full of guys with long term injury question marks. It's not a shock. They're dealing with injuries to several of them. And now they're going to be without Evan Mobley for a while. And they've been barely winning these games at Donovan Mitchell and Evan Mobley together. So now without one of them, it's going to be tough.
- [32:22]
B
We just saw John Morant come back from his calf injury and another star player on the shelf with the calf injury, Evan Mobley out two to four weeks with the calf injury that he suffered against the Wizards. And Mobley while people in Cleveland like to hold him to a high standard, which is totally fine. He's a supermax player. He's a defensive player, defensive player of the year, second team, all NBA. He should play to a high standard. He seems to be the guy who gets blamed a lot of times for stuff as if he's not performing. That's my experience. And talking to a lot of folks in Cleveland, you're now going to see how important Evan Mobley is, I suspect, because not having him is going to have effects on the defensive end of the court. And they give up.100. I guess it was overtime, but still.119 to Charlotte.
- [33:15]
C
And Charlotte without Lamello ball, by the way, for better or worse.
- [33:19]
B
And the Cavs did get Jared Allen back in this game. He's missed a bunch of games with a finger hand injury. But Darius Garland has not been the same player since he re injured his foot a couple weeks ago in Miami. And it's his foot, you know, he's, you know, as the NBA players say, he's active. So you can't, you can't, you know, you have to take it for its worth. But he is not the player that he was before. He had this foot injury last year and then re injured it this year.
- [33:53]
A
And I mean, he's been awful. I mean, he's way 40%. Yeah, he's way under 40.
- [33:58]
B
He can't make a shot and he can't create separation. And I don't think it's due to skill. I think it's due to the.
- [34:06]
C
Yeah, well, and Donovan, Donovan Mitchell.
- [34:10]
A
Today.
- [34:12]
C
We'Re talking about 6 of 24 from the floor, 1 of 11 from 3 point range. They're not going to even beat many bad teams when Donovan has that kind of an off day.
- [34:22]
A
Yeah, that's why they didn't beat Charlotte. And look like the Evan Mobley thing sort of sums up where the Cavs are at, right? Like Evan Mobley's been fine this season and is obviously a very good player and like, is a big part of them being a good team. But for the Cavs to be a championship level team, truly, for them to be up there with Oklahoma City and these other teams, Evan Mobley has to take another step offensively and he has it. And like, that's where it's, it's, that's the thing you can point to if you're a Cavs fan and be like, this has got to be better if we want to get where we want to go. But it's also not like he's the Reason that Darius Garland is hurt and not playing well. And you know, they've had all these other guys out with injuries and the team has disappointed. Like both things can be true. And it's why the Cavs right now are sitting there at, you know, 15 and 12 and mired in the play in. Which is certainly not the kind of place we expected them to be back in October when the season started.
- [35:18]
B
Yeah, so they're, and they're, they're also in the second apron by $22 million. And so there's not a place you're.
- [35:26]
A
Expecting to be if you're to be in the play and be in the second apron is not what you're looking for.
- [35:31]
B
And also the idea, you know, I see this, this is a common thing for fans. When a guy goes out, they say, well, well, we'll do this, sign this player, trade this guy. You know, it's not that there is a zero percent chance that they're going to make a trade that's going to fix everything, but all these folks who I know who are Cavs fans are like, what about this? What about this? And I just keep saying, I'm sorry to be the spoil sport. I sound like the uswb. Second apron, second apron, second apron, second apron.
- [36:00]
A
That's why the second apron exists for high spending teams. People don't think, people think about it for the Clippers and the warriors and teams like that. And I get it. But Dan Gilbert's got plenty of money. He's been willing to spend the money and like, this is why it exists. So teams in this position can't just add and add and add to their roster if they want. And you know, the Cavs are, that's part of the reason why the Cavs are in the spot they're in right now.
- [36:21]
C
And by the way, little different context on USWB these days. He's. He's very pleasant around the Spurs. No longer poo poo in the Spurs. Also on social media, it's. No, it's not urine stain, wet blanket. It's unbelievable.
- [36:34]
A
This has been, this has been, this has been workshop.
- [36:37]
C
Don't step on my line. I just haven't had a chance to say it. Unbelievably soft, warm blanket, Tim Bond temps. Everything's awesome on that Twitter every day, baby.
- [36:50]
A
There's a lot of great stuff happening in the NBA every day.
- [36:52]
C
There is. People appreciate you letting folks know about people to know.
- [36:57]
A
Yeah.
- [36:58]
B
Yeah.
- [36:59]
C
More Hoop Collective podcast after this. Brooks running reminds us that we're all powered by something. Whether it's the me time energy of a run after a day at the office, the electrifying energy of your first marathon, or the infectious energy of a group run with your friends. No matter what energy powers you, Brooks has gear specifically designed to unleash it. So lace up and let it out. Let's run there. Visit BrooksRunning.com today to learn more.
- [37:31]
B
This episode is brought to you by McAfee. Yes, playoff tickets. Just need to click here and wait. What fake site? Good thing McAfee threw the red flag. That would have been 400 bucks gone.
- [37:45]
A
McAfee blocks risky sites so you don't.
- [37:47]
B
Pay for seats and other things that don't exist. Plans start at just $39.99 for your first year. That's cheaper than parking on game day. Learn more@mcafee.com Online Protection this episode is brought to you by State Farm. Listening to this podcast Smart move Being financially savvy Smart move. Another smart move having State Farm help you create a competitive price when you choose to bundle home and auto bundling. Just another way to save with a personal price plan like a good neighborhood, State Farm is there. Prices are based on rating plans that vary by state. Coverage options are selected by the customer. Availability, amount of discounts and savings and eligibility vary by state farming. So the other thing that another big man in the Eastern Conference kind of upsetting update today from the Atlanta Hawks that Chris Haps Porzingis, who had his season last year derailed by an injury or by an illness that was actually causing his heart to race and they thought they got it under control. He had, you know, shot treatment in the off season, made some, some lifestyle changes, I believe, and thought he was in a good place. He has been missing a bunch of games. I think it's maybe six out of eight. Bontemps, seven out of eight.
- [39:14]
A
Six or seven of eight. Yeah, I'll look it up right now while you're talking.
- [39:17]
B
And then the Hawks announced on Sunday that he's going to miss the next couple of weeks while he gets evaluated and treatment for this continuing illness. They didn't say it was the same illness as it was last year. He did play for Latvia in Eurobasket over the summer and then, you know, started the season. Okay. Talked about how he's feeling better, but you know, forget about how it affects the Hawks who have been without Trae Young. Although Trey is back to practicing and.
- [39:49]
A
I think should be back pretty soon.
- [39:51]
B
Yeah, this is worrisome. You're worrying about how it affects him's his life and potentially career. So he's in the last year of his contract and so.
- [40:10]
A
And he's been good when he's played too. Like he's averaging, I mean he's averaging 19 point shooting, almost 50 from the field. Like the Hawks have been really happy with what he's given him when he's been available. It's just, you know, obviously he's still dealing with this stuff and, and yeah, like we've all spent time around Porzingis. I have in New York and Boston a lot. Tim obviously was with him in Dallas. Like he's a great guy. Saw him earlier this year when they played in Brooklyn, the Hawks. And he's really fired up about the situation in Atlanta after the trade. Felt good about where things were at and it, yeah, just hopefully for his sake he can get back healthy because like you said, Brian is going to be an unrestricted free agent this summer and it really complicates his future if you know he's going to be in and out of the lineup like this at minimum, let alone obviously you just want him to be healthy off the court, period.
- [40:58]
C
Yeah, he's missed six of seven and seven of nine and he know Porzingis. To me, I have a lot of respect for the way that he's evolved throughout the course of his career because he came in so much hype is the face of the franchise in New York. And then obviously the, the ending there was messy. I would say messy on both sides but you know, he's acknowledged that it was messy on his end. And then in Dallas, you know, just it was such a struggle for him to be a complimentary guy or you know, a co star but not the face of the franchise with Luca. And then he got to Boston after frankly being in Siberia for a stretch there. He got to Boston and did such a great job of adapting his game to be a championship caliber complimentary piece and working on his game. So remember the Rick Carlisle rant about the post up and then he worked on his game to make it to where his post ups were. Some of the most efficient plays. You know, he, he got to the point where hey, if he was the, the fourth, third, fourth, fifth option for games or stretches, he was fine with that. He was going to find ways to help.
- [42:07]
A
That was a huge question when he got traded there, remember? I mean I'm sure you got asked that, Tim. Like I got asked it by a lot of people. Like when they, when Boston traded for him, the big question wasn't Will Porzingis be good for them. It's. Will he be good with being the fourth, fifth, sixth option on nights on a deep team? And he came in and was. I mean, by the time he left, he was probably everybody's favorite teammate in Boston and was like, you know, just a beloved figure there across the board. And I like three, four years earlier in his career that. That probably doesn't happen in the same way that it did with the Celtics. So. Yeah, hopefully he can just get himself healthy because it's a lot more fun when he's on the court.
- [42:47]
B
Yeah. So that's something that we're definitely going to be keeping an eye on and. And hopefully that the Hawks doctors can. Can help him feel better more than anything else, so. All right. I wanted to. Before we go, I wanted to tell you guys about my experience Friday night worldwide.
- [43:10]
C
Windy, baby.
- [43:11]
A
Yeah, we still haven't. Should we. I don't know if Jackson is prepared for this, but are we gonna. Are we gonna be able to let the people have their guesses about where Brian was before we tell him on the pod, or are we waiting to do that? I don't know. I don't know what our super producer is going to say.
- [43:27]
C
Jackson doesn't do a whole lot of preparation.
- [43:31]
B
I'm. I will. I don't know. I. I'm going to send Jackson some videos. I don't know if he's going to be able to put them into YouTube here because I'm certainly not adapted technology, as Bon Thumps will tell you, but. Okay. So I went to. I've spent the last four days basically moving around Europe. I went to Switzerland on Thursday and I saw a Europa League match. And that's football, McMahon.
- [43:56]
C
It's not.
- [43:56]
A
It's.
- [43:56]
C
It's soccer. It's not football.
- [43:58]
B
There was no wing tea. There was no wing tea. I saw Aston Villa play against Basel FC in Basel, Switzerland, and I don't.
- [44:07]
C
Know if you can find a lot of wing tea now anyways, but. Go on.
- [44:10]
B
I will say that the. What I will keep take away from my time at Basel is the concession. The way the folks there handle concessions is what they do is they buy a box of sausages.
- [44:24]
A
A box?
- [44:24]
B
Yeah. It's like, I don't know if there's four in there or six in there or eight, and they bring it back to the table and it's a cardboard box and it slides out like a drawer, and then that drawer is a bunch of sausages, and then they slap a big dollop of ketchup on one side of the top of the box and mustard on the other, and they pass around to their friends and they take the big things of sausage and they dip them in the condiments and they just house those suckers.
- [44:50]
C
So it's a finger food or like a hand.
- [44:53]
B
I know I would have. I would have suggested a bun. I think you can get a bun. But the, the gentleman that I saw were very happy to just dip it with. With the straight finger on the sausage.
- [45:03]
C
Do they, like, hand you a whole bunch of napkins or we just like.
- [45:07]
B
You know, I, I would have used more napkins if it were me, but, you know, I was a guest in Basel, so Aston villa won that 2 to 1.
- [45:15]
C
What country's Basel is in Switzerland?
- [45:17]
B
It's actually right on the French, German, Swiss border. People.
- [45:22]
C
I couldn't have told you that it was bordered by French.
- [45:24]
B
German people were. People were speaking both German and, and French. And of course, a lot of them speak English too, because we're behind the times, but, you know, we're the only.
- [45:37]
C
Dummies that speak one language.
- [45:39]
B
I will say this. If you can only speak one language, English is the one to speak. So then really the hub of what I was doing on this trip was Friday I flew to Belgrade, Serbia. This was really the reason I wanted to go. It was the Belgrade Derby, also known as the Eternal Derby, which is. There are two. There is a number of. There's quite a few teams in Serbia, but there's two sort of legacy teams in Belgrade. Partizan, KK Partizan and Red Star Belgrade, both of whom have produced legendary players over the years. Before I went, though, I did stop by and see Mega basket play. Mega is the former team of Nikola.
- [46:20]
A
Jokic, among many, many, many other players who've come to the NBA.
- [46:25]
B
And they play in a really small old gym. And I went and watched this little bit of this game on Friday, and they have a prospect or two.
- [46:36]
A
Another discovery. McMahon, another discovery.
- [46:40]
B
But before that, I actually had lunch with Joe Kim, Noah and Sasha Pavlovich. I covered for five years in Cleveland. Sasha, a former cavalry Joe Keane, once.
- [46:53]
A
Famously said, who wants to come on vacation to Cleveland?
- [46:57]
B
So actually, I mean, I don't want to give. Joe Keem is producing a television show called Nomad, which is sort of an Anthony Bourdain style show where he sort of goes around the world in basketball.
- [47:07]
A
And I really want a better guy to do that than Joe Keem. I didn't know he was doing that. He's a pretty perfect person to.
- [47:12]
B
And so I don't know how much they'll use, but we shot some scenes in this restaurant with me, Joachim and Sasha. Um, and Sasha, you know, used to play for Partisan. Um, but he.
- [47:26]
C
But Sasha was telling us2011 Mavericks champion was on a 10 day deal.
- [47:31]
B
Oh, I didn't know.
- [47:33]
C
Got cut to make room. Yeah, they didn't keep him so they could make room for Peja Stojakovic, but he was actually like starting for them at the time and broke. The poor guy broke his nose and got let go.
- [47:46]
B
That's. Did he get a ring?
- [47:49]
C
I would think so. He actually, like, he played well on the. I think he was on two, 10 days. He played pretty well for him.
- [47:54]
B
I should ask.
- [47:54]
A
I completely forgot Sasha was on that team. That's wild.
- [47:57]
B
So Sasha, this is kind of well known by, you know, people in the basketball community, certainly in Belgrade. But 20 years ago, Sasha bought one of Lebron's cars is a BMW 7 Series. It's well known in Belgrade.
- [48:16]
A
And he bought a car of Lebron's.
- [48:19]
B
I. I'm just telling you, it's. He. He says the car.
- [48:21]
A
Is there a reason why he liked.
- [48:23]
B
It and Lebron was selling.
- [48:24]
A
No, I meant his. I meant is there a reason why it's well known. That's a very bizarre factor.
- [48:28]
B
He said when he shipped the car over there, people found out that it was coming and like went to meet it at the port or. I don't know how it got there, but.
- [48:36]
A
Okay.
- [48:37]
B
But the crazy thing is he still. He's still driving it. He drove it to the restaurant and in something you might only see in Serbia. And I say this with love, guys, he's still got Ohio plates on it.
- [48:53]
A
That's incredible.
- [48:55]
B
He is driving Lebron's old car, which, when we were at the table.
- [49:00]
A
Does it have a personalized plate, the Lebron car?
- [49:03]
B
It's not personalized. It's just a standard Ohio plate.
- [49:06]
A
Got it.
- [49:06]
B
It's legal. Apparently he can't drive it elsewhere in the. In the.
- [49:10]
C
Would it be awesome?
- [49:11]
B
Can't drive in the eu.
- [49:12]
C
This Beamer with like chosen one plate.
- [49:17]
B
The Serbians at the table like all asked him, do you still have the car? He's like, yeah, it's down the street. So, you know, Sasha was great to see. You know, Sasha started on the Cavs team, went to the finals and you know, Joachim is Joachim. And you know, he was. But anyway, the story that Sasha was telling was after his NBA career was over, he went and played for a couple of years in Belgrade and he had He. One day he. He looked up in the stands and he saw this former guy used to play against Jared Jeffries, who had, you know, since become a. I don't know what. What his title was then, but he's an executive with the Nuggets, but he was. I don't know if he was a scout at the time. And, you know, they saw each other and talked and whatever. And then a couple weeks later, he saw Jared Jeffries again, and he goes, why are you here in Belgrade two times in, like, a month? And he's like, listen, man, there's this guy playing at Mega, and I think he could be really special. And he's like, who? We've played them twice. He's like, this kid. Jokic and Sasha knew Nicola's older brothers, one of his older brothers in particular. And he's like, okay. He's like, all right. Was. We're playing them next week. I'll let you know. And so we played him, and he was like, you know, he did pretty good for a teenager. You know, he had, like, 13, 6 and 6, which is pretty good. But so I told, you know, Jared, I was like, yeah, you know, he's.
- [50:50]
A
He's.
- [50:51]
B
He's all right. You know, he's. He can go some good passes. He's like, I think he might be one of the best players ever. And Sasha was like, get the bleep out of here. Like, don't stop. So anyway, he told that story, but.
- [51:03]
A
Good for Jared Jeffries. He saw that.
- [51:04]
C
Seriously, this is too convincing.
- [51:07]
B
I don't think of the Taco Bell.
- [51:08]
C
Commercial in the second round.
- [51:10]
B
I don't think Sasha is prone to overstatement. I mean, the man story to make up.
- [51:16]
A
I'll just put it that way.
- [51:18]
B
I will just say that the car that Sasha was known for when he played for the Cavs was a yellow Ferrari, which he used to drive around Cleveland and his teammates. What the heck are you doing driving a Ferrari in the winter in Cleveland? You must be crazy. And I told Sasha, I said, sasha. Everybody used to call it the Bumblebee. He goes, yeah, I still have it. It's here. So this is how he operates. Okay. It was very good to see Sasha, but what I went there for was the Serbian Derby. And, like, every time you have a Partisan versus Belgrade game, it is an intense experience. Okay? It's one of the reasons why I wanted to go there. This one was particularly intense because I won't get into the details because, you know, we talk about the NBA, but Partizan has had Some drama, and a very famous coach that they had recently.
- [52:18]
A
Left, Phil Jackson of Europe, quit in dramatic fashion two weeks ago. That's the. That's the story.
- [52:24]
B
Yes. And so Obradovic and the fans were not happy about it. In fact, when the team came back from Athens, where it happened, 5,000 fans came to the airport to protest. This is how passionate the Serbians and the Belgrade fans are. And so the previous home game, Partizan's fans booed their own team. And just to give you an idea, the partisans like support, like the section that their fans are most passionate. They're known as the Grave Diggers.
- [52:59]
C
Okay.
- [53:00]
B
That's their nickname. And you guys know what a tifo is?
- [53:06]
C
No idea.
- [53:09]
B
They are. You know the big banners that fans wave before soccer matches? You see them in other sports too, even, you know, and they're. Sometimes they're just like logos or they're players faces or coaches.
- [53:22]
C
And you're talking about the banners that are like, sections long.
- [53:25]
B
Yes. Yes.
- [53:26]
A
Like, yes.
- [53:27]
C
Yeah. Like the whole. The whole row.
- [53:29]
A
They come in different shapes and sizes, but for the most part, they're sending some sort of message. Sometimes it is our team is awesome. Sometimes it is the refs are awful. Sometimes it is the other team stinks. But there's always some sort of message behind it. It's just a matter of what the message is.
- [53:45]
C
Here's what the old tifo have to say.
- [53:48]
B
There was a tifo recently displayed by the Gravediggers when they were playing Fenerbahce, which is a team from Istanbul, Turkey. And in the tifo, I don't know how big it was. It was 20ft wide by 20ft tall. It displayed a scene from the Battle of Kosovo in which a Serbian stabs the head of the Ottoman army. And it's a famous moment in Serbian lore about this soldier who stabbed this Turk.
- [54:22]
A
And the Battle of Kosovo took place in 1389.
- [54:25]
C
I mean, what is this, history class or basketball?
- [54:28]
B
Well, I'm just. By the way, the Turks were not pleased.
- [54:32]
A
And the point is, there's hundreds of years of enmity going on all over the place.
- [54:36]
B
And Partisan was fined 50,000. Partisan was fined 50,000 yards. Okay, so this is why I walk into. I couldn't have been more excited. And, guys, it was a 15 out of 10. It was a 15.
- [54:50]
A
This is the kind of scene where there's people with machine guns in the stands.
- [54:54]
B
Well, there's riot cops in riot gear totally lining the concourses.
- [54:59]
C
Oh, wow. Were people smoking in the stands?
- [55:03]
B
Hold on, McMahon. Just sit back For a second.
- [55:06]
A
Yeah, this is that.
- [55:08]
B
The clothes that I wore that night will not be worn for a while, if ever again. They were sectioned off from my, from the rest of my, my luggage. First off, when the Red Star fans. So this is Partizan's home game, they have the same arena. They play in a modern like 17, 18,000 seat arena, but because it was Partizan's home game, the Red Star fans only got like 1500 seats or something like that.
- [55:33]
A
And they all have to be shared. I never realized that they have to.
- [55:36]
B
Be in this, in their seats and locked in. Basically like an hour before the game. So like an hour and a half or so before the game, the partisan fans march on the arena and they're shooting off fireworks on their way to the arena. Like, here we come. Okay. Their riot police get them in and once they get. And they're afforded the, the, the end zone seats in the second deck or the third deck, whatever it is, the top seats, the worst seats in the house there. And they're locked in and they got. Now they do a full search when you go in. Okay. And I don't know how people get this stuff in, but you are fully searched.
- [56:14]
C
I don't want to know.
- [56:14]
B
Okay. I have been told that people come in to the arena at other times and hide things in the arena or maybe they bring them in in other contraband ways, I don't know. But okay, they're in there now.
- [56:31]
C
What do you mean by that?
- [56:33]
B
I'm gonna tell you. So the game fills up. We're getting ready to go. When the Red Star comes out onto the court, the Partizan fans and maybe the Red Star fans do this when it's their home game. I can't say by the thousands, they whistle. They like whistle. And it creates this deafening ear splitting, uncomfortable, uncomfortable sound. And they do it whenever they want to upset the opponent the rest of the night. When the referees are not being enjoyed by the home crowd, objects come out of the stands. Mostly lighters. Okay, lighters.
- [57:19]
C
Batteries or.
- [57:21]
B
Well, batteries would probably show up on the, on this metal detector. So these are lighters. And I guess they don't. And they come in and they, you know, the refs showed a lot of poise. You have to be. You have to be very confident to officiate this game.
- [57:35]
A
I can't imagine drawing that assignment. Yeah, let's go get the partisan Red Star game. Sure. Yeah. Awesome.
- [57:40]
B
And so that light is refs McMahon. You wouldn't mess with them. I'll tell you what you would not say anything.
- [57:47]
A
You were in. The Balkans are not the home of, of people under your height requirement.
- [57:52]
B
The environment was absolutely amazing. There's flags waving in the crowd, giant flags waving the entire game. And then the flares start. They start ripping flares and there's giant plumes of smoke and bright lights from flares in the stands open.
- [58:17]
C
Now these flares have to be smuggled in. They're not allowed. Is that.
- [58:21]
B
Clearly there was no shortage.
- [58:23]
A
Supposed to be in there, but they're in there. As a Serbian journalist said to me this weekend when we were talking about Brian going to this game, because, yeah, a lot of these people just show up and they're just yelling at you. They're not paying attention to the whole game. It's kind of annoying.
- [58:35]
B
Yeah. So then there's a couple of guys who are leading the chanting for the grave Diggers and McMahon. You would not be messing with them. And at one point they just remove their shirts and they're both just jacked and they're just like, sweat is pouring off them and they're leading the charge. And Partizan goes down by 15. Okay. Also, there's lasers. There's lots of lasers and there's so much smoke being produced by the smoking and the, the flares. The flares that the lasers show up. You can see the guys who got him, but apparently they're like, well, he's got him. I'm not going to take it. At one point, a player missed a key free throw late in the game because there was a laser in his eye and the referee just let him have another free throw. Wow.
- [59:31]
C
Okay. Yeah, Seems fair.
- [59:34]
B
Yeah. So, you know, there's a handful of American or international former NBA players in the game. Jabari Parker started the game for partisan. Dwayne Washington Jr. Was the star of the game. Was one of the stars of the game. And I have to say, like, I thought it was, you know, the crowd, you know, never let up. You know, the chants were more amazing, but, you know, they were pulling away, quite frankly. And Partisan starts making this comeback and they come back from 15 down and it is, it was just absolutely electric. And Dwayne Washington made three or four incredibly clutch baskets. Jared Butler is sort of, in my view, one of the star players of the. Of Red Star. He, he played brilliantly, had a couple of very clutch shots.
- [60:30]
A
He's been a long time fringe NBA player. He was on Philly last year. He was on Phoenix last year. Poor Butler star bounced around to a bunch of teams. Exactly the kind of guy that Goes to the Euroleigh and what's that?
- [60:42]
C
Yeah, you said.
- [60:42]
A
Oh, I say. I say Butler. Yeah, I meant Baylor.
- [60:45]
B
Sorry. Yeah, exactly.
- [60:46]
A
The kind of guy that goes over the Euro League and. And has big success, like Shane Larkin back in the day, who's been at FS in Istanbul for a long time. It's been one of the best players in. In Europe for years.
- [60:58]
B
For Red Star. He had. He had a good game. Former NBA player with a couple of teams. Jordan Awara, Semi Ojale.
- [61:04]
A
There's a ton of NBA players on those two teams.
- [61:07]
C
Okay.
- [61:08]
A
Yeah.
- [61:08]
B
Donata spoke to Younis, former Rocket.
- [61:12]
C
Now, I thought, didn't there used to be a thing where you could only have like a couple of Americans per team?
- [61:17]
A
Is that changed rules recently?
- [61:19]
B
Yeah, the rules just in general are sort of fast and loose.
- [61:24]
C
So, like, smoking in the arena.
- [61:27]
B
Yes.
- [61:27]
A
Yeah. Flares going off in the arena.
- [61:29]
B
Absolutely. Tremendous experience. I was just smiling, like there was chaos going on all over the place, and I was just smiling, you know, because that was just exactly what I wanted. And the game came down to the final seconds and Partizan, which is having a bad season and a rough go of it, Partizan wins. Dwyane Washington makes a bunch of clutch plays, wins the game. And now you have this circumstance, and this happens in European soccer, but now the Red Star fans are not allowed to leave because they are held in while the partisan fans leave. They don't want the. And the thing about. About Belgrade is that this is not like other rivalries in other cities where there are neighborhoods that are, you know, that's. I hate to bring up White Sox, Cubs. It's sort of embarrassing to compare it, but, you know, north side versus south side, you know, this side of the tracks versus that side of the tracks, there isn't that way. So these are interesting.
- [62:26]
C
It's just a matter of personal preference.
- [62:28]
B
Yes. And I assume many people have jobs, like, you know, like. And maybe they see these guys, you know, in the. At the water cooler or whatever on Monday, but on Friday, they're hated. It's just in the. It's in the community, you're either partisan or you're Red Star. So. But as this game ends, the Red Star fans are held in place for the partisan fans to clear the arena, but they don't want to clear the arena. First off, a bunch of them come on the floor, which longtime Belgrade people told me they'd never seen before, before the security perimeter can get set up, and then they turn and they just start mf ing the Red Star fans, they're just giving it to the Red Star fans. Well, you know, when your team loses, especially a rivalry game, you just want to get out of there. But they have to be held there. But don't worry, the Red Star fans are prepared to retaliate.
- [63:18]
C
Oh, no.
- [63:19]
B
With flares and M80s. M80s, that's right, M80s. And the thing about it is, when the M80 went off and shook the entire building, many people did not react. I said, what? I said, okay. And then they light the flares and they helicopter the flares down towards the floor like you would in a war, in a battle.
- [63:49]
C
How the hell do they get an M80 in there?
- [63:52]
B
McMahon, what do you want me to say? Okay.
- [63:58]
C
I don't want to know, actually.
- [63:59]
B
And I loved it. I loved every second of it. I never at once felt concerned at all. I just totally bastarded.
- [64:06]
C
Were you sitting in the middle of the gravediggers?
- [64:08]
B
I was sitting at center corner.
- [64:10]
A
He was sitting on the wood, as we say.
- [64:13]
B
I was wonderful host. I was taken care of beautifully. Thank you so much to Partizan and their fans for taking care of me. I couldn't have had a better seat. And it was terrific. And I was treated very well by the servant Caribbean media. And I sat just like four or five seats down.
- [64:31]
A
You were feted the grand arrival of. Of window.
- [64:34]
B
I was paying respect. I was paying respect to the great Window.
- [64:39]
C
Seriously. A lot of the European basketball social, you know, outlets and social media channels were very excited about.
- [64:46]
A
Yeah, Worldwide news. Window was on the scene for one of the big games in Europe.
- [64:51]
B
I was paying respect and, you know, there was some, some longtime scouts who were there. There was also some, you know, there was NBA teams who had American executives there that were scouting, but people had made many trips to Belgrade and they were like, this is one of the more intense ones we've ever seen. But I can't speak more highly of it. I absolutely loved it. I, in my view, and I mean, I may have recency bias, but to me, 2016 finals game 7, 24 Olympics gold medal game. The Serbia game is up there, but the gold medal game with Steph.
- [65:29]
C
Yeah.
- [65:30]
B
Belgrade derby. The three greatest basketball events I've ever personally witnessed and been there for.
- [65:38]
C
Okay.
- [65:41]
A
Someone said to me yesterday, who we know who has been to many games over there, they said, you think that there's real rivalries over here? You don't know anything about anything until you see Red Star game.
- [65:53]
B
Yeah.
- [65:54]
C
Spurs Thunder's got a lot to live up to.
- [65:56]
B
Well, you know, and that just like nothing really fazed anybody. So like when they started throwing the, the flares down from the upper deck down to lower deck, they were ready for it. They had guys there with fire extinguishers and they just.
- [66:11]
C
So these are flares just being chunked.
- [66:14]
B
Yes.
- [66:14]
A
And I. To tell, to tell a brief story about the way these games go. The same person I was talking to yesterday told me the story how he's at a game and there was a bomb that landed or an explosive device that landed near the coach of a team. And while the game's going on and the coach measured his steps away from it, it went off like exploded. Someone came over and wiped it away. And the game never stopped.
- [66:42]
B
I want to just. The environment, I want to just say.
- [66:44]
A
I knew how far away to get from the explosive device to be fine. Everybody was good. The game continues. Never.
- [66:51]
B
I can't say what happened in the streets after the game.
- [66:54]
C
Yeah.
- [66:54]
B
But I don't believe anybody was injured. And I never felt unsafe. I absolutely loved the environment. They, you know, you know, they do the. One of the things that you see in international football is when the team sings its song. It's. They all stretch out their, their, their scarves and they wave them. That happened. The intensity of this game was amazing. To the point where I then came to London and went to three soccer matches in two days. And while those were all terrific, they could not match the intensity. Yes. Let me ask this, I want to, Let me just say this. I want to thank, gotta thank the.
- [67:33]
A
People that jugg it.
- [67:37]
B
I want to thank Steve Parrish, the co owner and the president of Crystal palace for hosting me today against Man City. They, they lost. But still I want to thank Chelsea, some great folks at Chelsea who, who hosted me yesterday also took in the Arsenal game. So. Yeah, but go ahead. McMahon.
- [67:59]
A
God, God forbid we do some work.
- [68:01]
C
I want to listen. He was, he was, he was promoting the brand.
- [68:06]
B
Okay.
- [68:08]
C
Are they selling liquor at these games? Beer, liquor?
- [68:10]
B
No, no, there's nothing being sold. I mean, you may be able to get water somewhere. There's no concessions. No concessions. I mean the whole smuggling operation.
- [68:18]
C
There may be no concessions.
- [68:19]
B
There's no beer. Forget about beer. There may be like water and Coke Zero.
- [68:24]
A
That happens a lot of places in Europe. One time Kaybon and I went to a Real Madrid game when we were in Madrid once. And K. Bond likes to go to sporting events. Soccer game. Likes to go to sporting events, but also likes to have a beverage at the game. So we went to dinner. The games are like 9:30, the games are late there. We walk into the game, she's like, oh, yeah, we'll go get a beer. We'll go to our seat. It'll be great. We get up to our seats and there's just Sprites and some chips and that's it. No. No alcohol of any kind. K Bon was not pleased. It made a while until we got into the game. She's like, oh, yeah, this is kind of fun.
- [68:58]
B
You cannot bring alcohol into the. Into the bowls at the.
- [69:01]
C
I mean.
- [69:04]
A
Either.
- [69:04]
B
So who know? No, I'm talking about, you know, at English football games, you can't bring. You can drink beer in the concourse. You can't bring it into the stands. So now in Basel, the Swiss allow it and they. And they do. They. I saw McMahon, you think, how would this have flown it? Like a Cowboys game. I saw people bringing in one guys. One guy bringing in six beers at a time. Six poured. Not in the can. Poured, poured.
- [69:32]
C
Must have big hands.
- [69:34]
B
They were at a carrier. They had a carrier for everything. You could draw a sausage in a platter of beer, buddy.
- [69:40]
C
Wow.
- [69:40]
B
That's how they roll. And by the way, the crowd at FC Basel, the crowd at FC Basel was also. Was also, you know, very intense. They were waving their flags, were flares there. And at one point, I don't know what it said in German, but there was a long. All the way across the stand, something in German, and underneath it said, F. Feba. Exclamation point. FIFA. Sorry, not Feba. FIFA.
- [70:06]
C
FIFA. FIFA.
- [70:06]
B
Yeah.
- [70:08]
C
We don't anger Feeba.
- [70:09]
B
Yeah, no.
- [70:11]
C
Did you introduce yourself to any of these gravediggers? Did you make your.
- [70:16]
B
I did not. You know, the gravediggers were very focused on supporting their team and hating Red Star.
- [70:25]
C
But is there a certain sort of, like, how do you identify the gravediggers just by the section, or is there like a certain kind of uniform they wear?
- [70:31]
B
Well, the one team partisan is black. In fact, you know, Belgrade Bayograd is the Serbian. Bayo means white. Grod means city. It means white city. On the court it says. So Partizan wears black. And on the court, I'm not just. This is what's written on the court, you know? You know, while, like in Denver, where it says 5200, 280, it says, like.
- [70:59]
C
In Miami, where it has the paragraph in the paint.
- [71:01]
B
That's right. They just have a sentence. It says, black team in a white city. In the white city. Black team in white city or black team in the white city. In English that's what it says. What do you want me to say? That's what it says in the court. And then Partizan is red, so Partisan is red. I'm sorry, Red star. Obviously red.
- [71:16]
A
I was gonna say red star.
- [71:17]
B
Red versus black.
- [71:18]
C
Now I'm confused.
- [71:19]
B
Red versus black. That's the. You know, in Manchester you're either blue or red, Man U or Man City. In Partisan or in certain Belgrade you're either black or red. Yeah, that's the way it goes. And. But anyway, I had a terrific experience. Obviously I've gone on about here, I.
- [71:38]
A
Mean it's an all time basketball thing. I am very jealous.
- [71:42]
B
They play each other a number of times a year in different competitions, right? Play in the Adriatic League, they play in the Serbian League. But this was a Euroleague game. And so this was the.
- [71:54]
A
When the early kicked it up, it was early in their season, it was like rivalry week. It was a big deal all the way around. Obviously made bigger by windows appearance on the court side. But yeah, I, I hope to someday get over to see that one too because that's a. If you're a basketball fan, that one. And Olympiacos and Panathenikos in Greece are the two games that I've always been told I need to go see.
- [72:18]
B
By the way, in, in Basel, the stands where the fans are are separated from the, the pitch by like 8 foot high, slanted like barbed wire fence.
- [72:35]
C
Oh my God.
- [72:38]
B
So Switzerland in Switzerland.
- [72:42]
C
I always thought Switzerland was a little kind of European.
- [72:45]
A
European sporting events are no joke, McMahon.
- [72:47]
B
I am telling you it was not no joke. Let's just say that when I came over after experiencing Basel and then Belgrade and then I made it for Saturday afternoon's Chelsea Everton match, which Chelsea is one of the classiest. Stamford Bridge, their stadium is the first time I'd been there. It's like an absolutely pure class venue. It was not quite the same. It was great atmosphere, but not quite the same as Belgrade the night before.
- [73:17]
C
Like in Switzerland, I think of like hot cocoa and skiing and stuff.
- [73:20]
B
That's what I was ordering. I was ordering.
- [73:22]
A
That's where it's like most places. But the, the football matches are different. I mean when we, we, we were lucky enough a couple years ago, we were in Italy to go to the Milan derby with AC Milan and Inter Milan playing at the San Siro and the Ultras, which are the same fans there, they're like. Kelly thought people were going to die. They're like hundreds of feet up in the air, hanging off of railings, screaming and yelling. And bleeding chance and blowing off flares and like, she was like, what? She was just like, what are these people doing? Like, are they going to survive the scandal?
- [73:54]
C
I don't know.
- [73:54]
B
Maybe.
- [73:54]
A
Some might fall. Happens like just an unbelievable experience.
- [74:00]
C
Where did you sit at these proper football matches?
- [74:03]
B
I was afforded.
- [74:05]
A
He was. He was fed on the junket by the people who hosted it, including the owners of the team. So think about where he was at.
- [74:11]
B
That's all you got to say. I had, I had. I was. I was, you know.
- [74:18]
C
Did you have climate control?
- [74:20]
B
In some cases, yeah. I want a special thanks to Bihad B dad Igbali, who is the owner of Chelsea, one of the owners who hosted me, and Todd Klein with Chelsea, who hosted me.
- [74:39]
C
You have so many rich friends. I've only got one.
- [74:43]
B
Well, you know, some of these guys are Americans who, you know, these teams are all owned by Americans and they like the NBA. Some of them also own NBA teams. Steve Parrish, the co owner and president of Crystal palace, had 76ers takes. He had 76ers takes.
- [75:01]
A
The CO owners of that team are Josh Harris and David Blitzer.
- [75:04]
B
That's right.
- [75:05]
A
Owners of the Sixers and Devils and many other things.
- [75:08]
B
He had many things to say about 76ers outcomes, not only now, but in the past, in the recent past. So. All right, well, that's enough for Omaha. For our first Omaha episode, hopefully we.
- [75:22]
A
Haven'T been booted off for going long. Hopefully they like us.
- [75:26]
B
I don't know, but we tried to talk about the NBA, but on this one we not. All right, I'll be back on Monday. Be back for the NBA cup and focused on, focused on that. Thank you for allowing the digression and thank you to everybody who made my trip and people also in Belgrade who took care of me for who I won't name because they, you know, they're wanted by the law. But no, thank you. Thank you very much to everybody who took care of me and I. I couldn't have had a greater experience and somehow all my flights were on time. Thank you very much to Bontempson McMahon. Thank you to Jackson. Thank you to Devon, one of our new producers. Thank you to Rochelle Marekenzee from Omaha. Thank you to Peyton and Eli and thank you for watching and listening to the hoop Collective. We'll talk to you later this week.
- [76:17]
C
Appreciate you, Peyton and Eli. Adios, amigos.
- [76:31]
B
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- [76:40]
A
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- [76:50]
A
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B
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