← Brian Windhorst & The Hoop Collective
Brian Windhorst & The Hoop Collective
Will Ja Remain In Memphis? + Why Giannis Has NBA On Hold & Lakers Get Much Need Win
01:11:31
Hoop Collective: Will Ja Remain In Memphis? + Why Giannis Has NBA On Hold & Lakers Get Much Need Win
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- [00:01]
A
Every sip of coca cola brings you closer to the excitement of the FIFA world cup 26. Because nothing compares to the joy. So grab a Coke and drink in the FIFA World Cup 26. No purchase necessary. 13 in 50 US states and DC with a web enabled device. Ends March 1 with eight entry periods. Rules@cokeurl.com SoccerRules Foreign.
- [00:34]
B
Welcome to the Hoop Collective podcast. We talk about the NBA which we're doing on Sunday evening. Joining us from Atlanta where like the Bucs, he spent the entire weekend there. No reports on any lemon pepper wings is Tim Bonteps.
- [00:48]
A
Hello everybody. While I'm in Atlanta, shout out to our pals at no Dunks, formerly the starters and basketball Jones for 20 years of potting. I think today is their 20th anniversary, their first pot.
- [01:00]
C
So wow.
- [01:01]
A
Shout out to Skeets and tasks.
- [01:03]
B
Nothing. Starting a pod in mid January.
- [01:05]
A
I know. In Toronto in that starting to make sense now.
- [01:11]
B
Yeah, it looks like Bontemps is in a club right now. I mean it's got like the look at the lighting in that swanky hotel room.
- [01:18]
A
Yes, it's very swanky.
- [01:19]
B
Yeah. Joining us from Dallas is Bam McMahon.
- [01:22]
C
Howdy partners. I can guarantee you that I will not make 20 years potting with this USWB 10 bond tims unless maybe he has a few more of these magical trips to Atlanta to lift his spirits.
- [01:36]
B
Hey, I just want you. I just hope that was that a baseball series of Jazz in Dallas last couple days? It was. I hope that you stayed away from. From Lowry Markinen.
- [01:47]
C
Oh, he didn't step foot in Dallas. He went on home to recover and quarantine.
- [01:54]
B
Oh, thank goodness. You cannot have those jazz. You cannot have an illness spread through that Jazz team.
- [01:59]
C
Why don't be DMP CD like old Yusuf Nurkic was in both games.
- [02:04]
B
Listen, you gotta develop those young guys. All right, so on Sunday afternoon. It was Sunday evening in London, but the Magic and Grizzlies finished their overseas little two game trip with John Morant playing his first game in several weeks due to that calf injury. It wasn't clear whether he was going to play in that game because he I think was questionable coming into it. And he made his first five shots and I think he scored 15 points in like the first eight or nine minutes of the game. And he had A brilliant performance, 24 points and the Grizzlies won. The two teams split, split the trip. So they're coming back. And then after the game McMahon he declared that he, he does not want to be traded. He wants to stay in Memphis he pointed out that he's got a logo on his back, a Grizzlies tattoo. So he's a very loyal guy and he wants to stay put. So what do we make of the John Morant situation now that this has happened?
- [03:05]
C
Couple things with this particular day, the performance which was spectacular, you know, 24 points and I mean, I don't know how many minutes he ended up playing, but very efficient. 24 points, 13 assists. I mean, you know, a reminder of just what a talent he is. And then the post game stuff. So let's start with the performance. And this comes on the heels of one of his more recent performances being a 40 piece that was in an overtime loss to Philly. But one of the big questions around the league about Ja was is he really declining or is he just kind of going through the motions, but he's still that level of player. And so, you know, I think the, those flashes tell us, hey, Jock, if Josh still wants to be an elite player, it's there. If he's on the floor and healthy, you know, it's still there if he wants to crank it up. So, you know, does that move the needle in terms of trade interest? I don't think it's that simple. I think the combination of that brilliant performance and the post game, I love you, Memphis. I want to, you know, I want to be a grizzly. I got the tattoo on my back. All that stuff kind of reinforces that a trade of Ja is going to be an extraordinarily unpopular move if it happens. So I, I think that the interest meter, I don't know how much this moves it. It can't hurt. But the PR meter was already pretty strongly in Jaw's favor and I think even more so after the performance in the post game.
- [04:48]
A
Comments. Yeah, I mean, I don't think this moves the needle at all. As for as far as people around the league go, to be honest, I think there's very limited interest in Jaw around the league. I've spent a lot of time asking people where they think he could go. There's not a lot of teams that you can really come up with as really credible options for him. And I think what you said, McMahon is really the thing that's sort of been the undercurrent of this whole story. Obviously, Memphis is a very small market and so it does. It's a little bit hard at times to get the read on things, what it's like there from a national perspective. But I'm in Atlanta. Obviously Atlanta traded a guy who was a popular point guard here for a long time a couple of weeks ago, and they did it for not very much an immediate return other than salary relief. Right now, that, I think, as we've talked about, that was a very smart move for Atlanta to make, I think, and it sets them up nicely for the future. I think if the Grizzlies could do a similar deal, I could make an argument it would make sense for Memphis to do that. However, everyone here, fan base wise, everybody was ready for Trae Young to move on, including Trae Young. And the very clear difference is Ja is an immensely popular player in Memphis still, fans are still going to be very much, at least to some degree, in his corner, even though I would argue some of that in that the place isn't exactly selling out like it has in the past.
- [06:16]
C
Well, he's not on the floor that often either, to sell it out.
- [06:19]
A
Well, that's true. But he has played. It still hasn't been. And, you know, that coupled with the fact that there isn't going to be this, you know, massive return for him if they do do a deal, I think the combination of that, like you said, it makes it very, very difficult for Zach Kleiman, I think, to find a way to do a deal if they ultimately decide to do one. That's not going to do anything but really upset everybody in Memphis, whether it should or not, because it's not like they're going to walk out of this like they're not getting a Desmond Bain package for John Moran if they make a trade. And that that coupled with the popularity, coupled with him saying he wants to stay there, it is a very complicated situation to try to navigate.
- [07:03]
B
Now, do you think any part of their not making it a secret that they were taking. I mean, let's just be honest, like, Shams reported it, but he didn't see the Grizzlies come flying out denying it, which you sometimes do. You think there's any part of the strategy here? Because obviously the Grizzlies had to, you know, they're smart guys in their front office. They knew that there weren't going to be people banging down the door with, you know, gigantic trade offers. And the reason they know that is because they just went through a trade scenario last summer and they traded Bain, as we talked about before, they traded Bain because his value was higher.
- [07:42]
A
Well, and they just saw Trae Young, a similar player at a similar position, go for not very much either.
- [07:47]
B
Right. So they knew that when this came out. I mean, even though, you know, Part of the strategy of letting a trade, you know, you know, sometimes not all trade requests or, you know, trade situations of star players are the same, but when a team is okay with it getting public, part of the strategy often is. I'm not saying for sure it is here, but part of the strategy is you want to elicit. You want to elicit better offers. You know, the only thing I'm.
- [08:13]
C
I'll push back on is I don't think that Zach Kleiman was thrilled that this went public. I don't think that, you know, I think this is a case where he's.
- [08:21]
B
Trying to deny it.
- [08:22]
C
Sure. Because he couldn't, because it was absolutely true. But it's one of the, like, listen, man, how do trade sometimes, you know, sometimes there will be a case where a GM or president of basketball operations is leaking, hey, we're trying to trade this guy, and they want the market out there. Sometimes they're just trying so hard to trade him that. That it gets that, you know, the birdies get to a reporter like Shams, who's obviously extraordinarily well connected across the NBA. And I'm pretty certain this one falls in the latter category. You know, I still. This does not change Jaws performance today. The thing it doesn't change is I think John Morant staying in Memphis is.
- [09:09]
A
I'll.
- [09:09]
C
I'll just use a word that was said to me by somebody involved in a situation. It's an untenable situation. Right, because you have to go back to everything that's happened over the last few years led to a point where it was extension time. And Zach Kleiman basically told Ja, we don't want to talk about an extension with you, buddy.
- [09:29]
B
That's what happened with Trey Young as well, by the way.
- [09:31]
C
And then very early this season, Ja gets into it and, you know, in front of the whole team with the new head coach, essentially the rookie head coach. And what did Kleiman do? He sided with the head coach. Then months later, you know, the Grizzlies are working hard to try to trade Ja. So if I believe Ja when he says, I want to be in Memphis, I think the part he's leaving out is on my terms. And I don't think Ja can be in Memphis with Zach Kliman running the front office and with Thomas Isalo coaching the team. Those aren't his terms. And again, I think this is a situation where the fan base is going to really be upset if a trade happens, but the franchise needs to move on because this is a reminder of how good he can be. But it's also how many all NBA caliber performance has he had this year? Four or five. They're halfway through the season.
- [10:37]
A
I mean, you could argue it's two. It's the one you mentioned with the Sixer game and then the one today.
- [10:42]
B
By the way, I was surprised. I was reading the story about this. Maybe you read the story. Do you know how many all Star games Jaws made? Two.
- [10:49]
A
I was going to say two.
- [10:51]
B
It's got to be because since then.
- [10:52]
C
He'S been suspended or hurt the whole time.
- [10:54]
B
How many playoff series has he won?
- [10:55]
A
UNO won one.
- [10:58]
C
Singular.
- [10:58]
B
So, okay, so the three dimensional chess, you're shooting down the concept that starting trade talks, knowing they were very likely going to get public. Are you shooting down the concept that it was. Is a motivational tool for ja, if not to keep him long term, but to have him start playing better? Because there are people who watched JA play this year and saw him not attack the basket wondering whether he had the gas. Whether he had the gas all the way down.
- [11:23]
A
I would, I would say it's less that and more preparing everybody for the possibility of him getting traded because of the backlash that would be coming. And if you just traded him out of nowhere and you didn't say anything about it, about it, there would be, I think, more backlash than if people have time to sort of prepare themselves for the possibility of it happening. And I also think to your all, everything you said, McMahon I don't disagree with. But the problem with that is you need somebody else on the other side to do the deal. And I am not con. I mean it's like the Jonathan Kaminga situation, like both of those situations, it feels like an untenable situation that you. That needs a resolution. And I'm not certain either of them is going to end with a resolution because I don't see an obvious way to get out of either situation that benefits everybody involved.
- [12:14]
C
Well, why was, why was Washington at the end of things, Trae Young's preferred destination?
- [12:20]
A
Any.
- [12:20]
B
Any guesses on that, fellas?
- [12:22]
A
Because there was one destination. Interested.
- [12:25]
C
Exactly. And so, but again, it gets back to, I think Zach Kleiman's having to work extremely hard to attempt to create any level of market for John Morant. Just because, dude, the, the. And it's funny because when I was working on that deal where I'm asking people about Trey and about John, about Lamelo, and you know, all these guys could be available before the deadline is a couple months ago, and you know what's the level of interest. And the answer essentially was not a whole lot. There were several people, four or five people with other teams who said to me, you know, I think there's a chance that Ja, with the change of scenery is going to be fine. That Jaws, you know, Jaw's the one of three that I think there was the most belief that, you know, his second stop might, might end up working out. But then it was always followed by but it, but it won't be us, it won't be here, you know, so it would be a bad chance for somebody else to take was kind of the gist of things.
- [13:24]
B
You mentioned Memphis being a small market. The challenges in Memphis has, market wise, I don't think people 100% understand it. And I just was reminded of it. I mentioned this on the pod before, but just, you know, their, their regional sports network right now is having some difficulty again. They already declared bankruptcy once and they're missing payments reportedly. I think the Sports Business Journal had all that information. Memphis makes reportedly every week during the NBA season, they make about $500,000 in payments from their regional sports network. That's their share before it's shared with the players or whatever. Like, that's their fee, their rights fee. They make about $500,000 a week. I'm actually rounding up. Ja makes $275,000 a game. So their TV deal doesn't even cover Ja's salary per week. Okay. They're a local TV deal.
- [14:17]
C
The Lakers, I mean, it doesn't cover. Does it cover Zach Eady's.
- [14:24]
B
The Lakers? Seriously, The Lakers, who are number one. The MCU's are number 30. The Lakers make about $7.5 million a week in their local TV deal. Now there's revenue sharing in there. They're sharing with the players and they're sharing with the teams. It's not completely apples to apples, but. And the reason I bring this up is because the value of a superstar player to any organization is incredible. You know, you could argue that LeBron James, if, even if he was paid $100 million this year alone, just for this year in this state that he's in right now, age 41, is probably underpaid relative to his value to the Lakers. Okay? Certainly. Because, you know, look at their rights fee. And the Grizzlies, you know, having a star player, you know, is so, so, so important because they don't have any sort of cushion in the market. And so the reason I'm bringing this up is the complexity of making a decision to Consider trading your signature franchise player, especially in a market like Memphis and the Grizzlies have obviously reached that point. I'm just. I'm just illustrating.
- [15:30]
A
I also think it's a reminder that he's not really a franchise player. And I think that's really what it comes down to. Like, he's a. He's a star. He's a star in name that is not a star in production at this point. And if he was having games like this and games like the one against Philly on a regular basis, we wouldn't be having this conversation. Right. The fact that those are the two games you can pick out and say, oh, that looks like John Moran from three years ago, beyond all the other stuff that's happened. That is why we're at the point where we're even talking about this. Because, you know, we've used this with Jimmy Butler last year. In Miami, there's a lot of different situations. At some point, the juice is no longer worth the squeeze. And in Memphis, it's clearly not the case. Like, I think it would make sense for them to move on. But that's for the same reason why when you look around the league, there's not a line of teams going, oh, like you said, McMahon, there's not a lot of teams with their hand up saying, oh, I'm the one who wants to have John Moran on my team. Like, that's not what's happening. And that's why I'm not sure there's going to be a trade.
- [16:26]
C
Yeah, you've got teams that have been suggested or speculated or even reported as jaw, potential destinations that are raising their hands and basically saying, no, like, you guys shot down on Friday, Miami as a destination. You know, a lot of people thought Miami was maybe the most likely.
- [16:46]
B
And I think the word that was in our story, and I think it was a. It was a well selected word by Bontemps was Miami's interest in jaw is overstated.
- [16:55]
A
I would. I would agree. I. I like the use of the word that I chose. Overstated. I would say it was overstated. He likes. I would also say. I would also say the potential. I would also say overstated is a good word to describe the possibility of Ja Morant to the Bucks. We'll say that.
- [17:11]
C
Okay, let's be clear then. Does overstated mean non existent?
- [17:15]
A
As I have said in the past, in the wake of the Luka Donchi trade, I've stopped saying never about things. But I. I feel confident that John Morant will not be a Heat and will not be a buck. That's what I would say.
- [17:25]
C
Is it a Heat?
- [17:26]
B
A Heat. Whatever. That's right. Okay.
- [17:29]
A
Whatever it is, I don't think he's going to Miami. I don't believe he's going to Miami and I don't believe he's going to Milwaukee.
- [17:34]
B
When I was a kid, Hot Rod Williams, the late Hot Rod Williams is a guy with the Cavs. The Heat was their Heat were only like in their second or third year and they signed with this huge offer sheet which. Seven years, $28 million for a guy who was. Who wasn't a starter. One of Mark Bartlestein, friend of the pod's first gigantic contracts.
- [17:52]
C
It's funny that. 28 million over seven years, just a shocking number at the time. Go on.
- [17:56]
B
Absolutely. It was. In fact, I remember. So Terry Pluto, my former colleague at the Cleveland Plain Dealer, he was the beat writer at the time covering the Cavs. I don't know where he got the numbers, but he found out the offer sheet numbers before the Cavs did. And so he. I mean, it's his story, but I'm going to tell it. And so he calls up Wayne Embry. I think he was on a. He's on like a speakerphone with Wayne Embry, who was the general manager of the Cavs at the time. And they're like their lawyer, like their general counsel. And Terry, like had the numbers and he was like, okay, year one, $2.7 million, year two, 3.1. You know, these were like jaw dropping numbers, like the high. You know, the. And they were like, oh, my God. Oh, my God. Anyway, Hot Rod wanted to go to the Heat because he was going to be a core player and. Or a star player. And he goes, as far as I'm famous lying in Cleveland, as far as I'm concerned, I'm a Heat. Which was funny at the time, by the way. Speaking of, just put things into perspective about the Bucks. And again, this is just more perspective about the, about. About the Grizzlies. You would say Milwaukee is a small market, right?
- [19:00]
C
Yeah.
- [19:01]
B
They make almost twice as much on their local TV deal with, by the way, with the same company. Like, they've. It's the same parent company. They make more than twice as much. Slightly more than twice as much.
- [19:11]
C
And listen, Memphis is the bottom five team in attendance right now with Jaws, the face of the franchise. Now I. And look, Memphis has also shown that, like, they can create a great atmosphere in that arena. The grit and grind Grizzlies had a great atmosphere for years. But like there. I believe there will be fan backlash if Joe gets traded, but how much that actually affects the bottom line, I don't know, because the bottom line's not great now. And that's why there's. You hear a lot of wondering whether it's going to be an NBA city long term. You know, there's questions about how much longer the Grizzlies are going to be in Memphis. There's a lot of uncertainty about that whole situation.
- [19:54]
B
I don't think. I don't think so. This is something that Bontemps and I have been working on for a while with regards to expansion, with regards to NBA Europe, with the understanding that things can change. And, you know, I don't. I have sources I talk to all the time, but, you know, I don't purport to know everything. I don't think any teams are relocating anytime soon. I don't think it's an option on the table at all.
- [20:19]
C
Probably number four, expansion settled at the minimum.
- [20:22]
B
Well, yeah, I'm just.
- [20:24]
A
He's just saying he doesn't think that's on the horizon. I think. I think.
- [20:28]
B
I just don't think. I don't. I. I just don't think it's happening at all.
- [20:32]
A
Yeah, I would. I would tend to agree, at least as of what we know today.
- [20:35]
B
Yeah. And so.
- [20:37]
A
But at the end of the day, it's what you said at the end, McMahon, like, setting that part aside, there's just an immense amount of uncertainty. I mean, look like there's even uncertainty with like Zach Eady, right? Who, when he's been on the quarter times this year, has been awesome. But he's had all of these ankle issues and like, there's questions about him going forward. There's uncertainty about, okay, if you trade John Morant, what is the future for Jaron Jackson Jr. In Memphis? What do they decide to do there? Like, there's just a lot of stuff that's all tied back to and all goes back to, you know, a couple of years ago with Desmond Bain and John Morant and Jaren Jackson Jr. This looked like a team that was going to be a factor in the west for a long time and fast forward not that much farther into the future. Bane is gone. Ja could soon be gone, and you could be staring at a total rebuild again. And the foundation of that thing is just falling out from under what it looked like it was going to be very quickly.
- [21:28]
C
It's gone from I'm fine in the west to, man, what a mess. I Did I did poke around about the dream.
- [21:35]
A
Yeah, that one prepared.
- [21:38]
C
You don't always have to point out my brilliance.
- [21:40]
A
I just listen, I enjoy it. I enjoy it.
- [21:43]
C
I poked around a little bit about the Jaren Jackson Jr. Situation, and my understanding is he just, he doesn't necessarily want out. Like, there have been people around the league who have suggested that's the case. I'm told that's not necessarily true. He just wants to understand what the plan is. And you know, Wendy, last time we talked about this, you know, you mentioned what Jaren Jackson Jr. Wants. Just like what Ja wants might not, Might not end up mattering in the end. You know, this might be step by step, a complete tear down of the Memphis Grizzlies.
- [22:20]
B
I think it just depends on if they trade JA and what they trade him for. Right.
- [22:27]
C
They're not going. The point. The point is they're not. You're not trading Ja Morant to immediately get better. You're trading JA to turn the page and to try to position your franchise to be able to rebuild.
- [22:43]
B
Well, the one thing about the Grizzlies that I think is important to know, I wrote a story about this a couple of years ago. Robert Pera, their owner, is sort of a mystery man. Like, he's a mystery man to his own fellow governors in the NBA. Like, he doesn't come to many. He very rarely even comes to a Grizzlies game and very, very rarely comes to NBA. Any, any, any NBA stuff.
- [23:06]
C
I've been to dozens of games in Memphis. I don't believe I've ever seen them anyways, go on.
- [23:11]
B
But he's extraordinarily wealthy. He's one of the top five richest owners. I think his net worth is somewhere in the $25 billion range. He controls 93% of the stock price of his company, which is a company that makes, I think, equipment, basically for networking equipment that sells huge amounts of volume. I think last year his personal stock just in the, just in that company. I don't know what else he invests in. Just his own stock in his own company went up by 7.5 billion. He made 7.5 billion in net worth and he made another 50. He made another, I think 200 million in quarterly dividends. So, like, his salary was something basically 200 million. So the Grizzlies have the. And he owns a preponderance of the shares. He has a. He's a strong controlling owner of the team. So when you look at the Grizzlies and you talk about their Difficulty and their decision making process. Yes, they have to make decisions based on market share. However, they have what you need in a small market like this to do a rebuild, which is an owner that can weather financial storms. That doesn't necessarily mean that's what he wants to do. But you know, it's one thing if you're, if your team is struggling to make their payroll and that could affect decisions. That is not the case with the Grizzlies. The Grizzlies have an incredibly deep pocketed owner and at times he has spent in the luxury tax. This is not a team that's afraid to spend. But I do think it's important to think about when you think about those decisions. But yeah, I mean, so I mean what you're talking about, Jaren Jackson is interesting because I think there are teams out there that are wondering like would Jaren Jackson become available? And they're, and they're.
- [24:49]
C
I would say there's a lot of teams.
- [24:51]
B
Right.
- [24:51]
A
Are we sure there's a lot of teams?
- [24:53]
B
There's, there's teams. Depends on your definition of the word a lot.
- [24:57]
A
But I'd be curious what the Jaren Jackson trade market is with that extension kicking in next year at north of, I believe north of $50 million.
- [25:06]
B
He's owed about about 200 million over the next four years after this year.
- [25:11]
A
49, 50.5, 52 and 53.5. So that would be what, about 204, $205 million? Ish. Over 4.
- [25:23]
C
I would say there are, you know, several teams that have interest and then we can get down to what price is and you know, if what kind of bidding war there may or may not develop. But there's interest from several teams for sure.
- [25:41]
A
Yeah, I don't think it'd be zero. I just, it that would be an interesting test case for the new financial reality that the league is in to see what the market would be for him. Because you know, we've been talking about these kinds of not, I mean Jared's probably a higher level player than a lot of these other guys. But going back to Brandon Ingram last year, to Trey Young, to John Morant, to Zach Levine, Kevin Durant, Tavin Durant, like a lot of guys, pro, high profile, big name players who are good to very good to great players have either struggled to be traded or have had limited trade markets over the past couple years at big numbers. So especially with Jaren at a lower number this year, it would be an interesting time to potentially do that trade. Cause it'd be a little easier to get to a $35 million number than a $50 million number in six months. But that that would be it would be an interesting test case for where things are at. If they do trade ja in this hypothetical world and then they do say talk to Jaron and decide to do something with him, what his market would look like and what he would get in a return. I think it would give us a sense of what future trades might look like as we move forward. More Hoop Collective podcast after this Watching.
- [26:49]
B
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- [28:55]
B
So I think there are teams out there saying, I wonder if Jerry Jackson will be available either maybe in a surprise by February 5th or this summer. And I think the same thing happens with the team you're going to see on Monday. Bontemps with Giannis. Now I talked about this when I was on Countdown on Friday, which by the way, we saw two great games on Friday from Countdown. The Cavs Sixers came right down to the final seconds and then an excellent game between Minnesota and Houston. Although the. The game.
- [29:26]
C
Minnesota. Holy moly.
- [29:28]
B
Yeah, that's a tough.
- [29:29]
A
That's a tough back to back for Minnesota, man. Yeah, couple tough losses.
- [29:33]
B
Yeah. So Ant didn't play on Friday. Still protecting this toe infection. I guess they didn't want him to play the back to back. So he played on Saturday.
- [29:41]
C
Man, did he play on Saturday.
- [29:43]
B
Put up 55. I guess his toes feel like.
- [29:46]
C
Ant versus Wimby might have been the most entertaining game of the season.
- [29:50]
A
That was a blast on the shortlist. It was a lot of fun.
- [29:54]
B
And I got to actually look and see what their schedule is if they play again because the last time they.
- [29:59]
A
Played, I believe that's just the first two games over the last week.
- [30:02]
B
Yeah. Yeah, good. Cause Ant had the game winner in the final minute a couple weeks ago.
- [30:09]
C
You know when they might play again? May or even April. That could be a three, six.
- [30:14]
B
Yeah, there's very difficult to predict the Western Conference. But anyway, I mentioned on Friday that, you know, I was asked by the producers in the, in the meeting before the show. They're like, what's the biggest question in the NBA right now? And I was really tempted to just give sort of a vanilla answer to.
- [30:30]
C
Move through it, but Wendy wanted to go viral.
- [30:33]
B
The biggest. Oh no.
- [30:35]
C
My little camera gets the hand motion.
- [30:38]
B
So here's the thing. Since we came to Omaha, McMahon has. We've all gotten upgraded tech.
- [30:44]
C
Get away from me. Camera.
- [30:48]
B
We've all got an upgraded tech, including these special cameras that have like AI on them.
- [30:53]
A
Has just no idea what's going on.
- [30:55]
B
He just doesn't know how to work it. And so it reacts to hand motions. And McMahon.
- [31:03]
C
I don't know how to get it out.
- [31:06]
B
How do I escape? If you're not watching on YouTube, you're not watching on YouTube. McMahon. We can see McMahon's nose hair. He.
- [31:17]
C
I mean, seriously, how do I.
- [31:19]
A
No, not a close up.
- [31:21]
B
There you go. Here we go. What a good looking guy.
- [31:28]
C
I did trim my nose hair this morning.
- [31:30]
B
Oh, thank God for that. Oh, My God.
- [31:36]
A
That was amazing.
- [31:36]
C
That's what I get from trying to get my. My Windy impersonation going.
- [31:40]
B
Yeah, right. Yes. Let me keep that. So, anyway, I was just like, well, if you want to know the answer to the biggest question in the league, it's is really Giannis not going to be traded? And I know what Giannis has said, and I know what Doc Rivers and the Bucks have said. I'm not calling them liars. I am just saying, if you're asking me what the question in the league is, as I talk to teams, that's what they're saying to the point where teams may. And, like, look, I want to be clear. It's not like there's other stars on the market right now. That a team that was like.
- [32:14]
A
That's what I was going to say. That's the thing. The reason the Giannis talk is putting the league on hold is because there's nothing else to do.
- [32:22]
B
Start superstar wise.
- [32:23]
A
I mean, there's nothing else to do. Like, yeah, there's. Anthony Davis would have potentially been a guy some of these teams might have looked at. Now, Anthony Davis is hurt, right? Nobody's interested in John Morant, really. Like, there's Levine, right? So it's like there's lottery.
- [32:41]
C
Marketing's only available if you want to.
- [32:43]
A
Make a crazy offer, right? So, like, if you're. If you're one of these teams saying, hey, we could push our chips in and do something, it's like, well, we might as well just wait.
- [32:51]
B
Zion Williamson is not. I mean, I know people. People keep asking about Zion. I. I do not believe Zion is like, I. I suppose if you called and offered Victor Wembanyama that they would do the deal. So, I mean, like, you know, everybody's.
- [33:04]
C
Got a price, given some of the trades the Pelicans made. I'm not sure about that.
- [33:08]
B
Right.
- [33:10]
A
But it's. But, yeah, it's just there's. There's. It's easy for everybody to say, well, let's just wait and see if Giannis comes available because there's no opportunity cost. You just might as well wait. So everybody's waiting.
- [33:21]
B
Well, I do think there is an opportunity cost for somebody. You know, again, the ad thing would have been interesting because some of the teams that could potentially have been in the ad market might have also been in the Giannis market had Giannis become truly available. And the thing about it is, is that the Bucks have absolutely dropped a couple of bombs in the last week, and I don't know what to expect on. I Mean, I've been around the NBA too long.
- [33:46]
C
And you mean by that they've had some absolute dud performances.
- [33:49]
B
Awful, awful performances. And not displaying like this is a team that's going to, you know, that is ready to ramp up.
- [33:57]
C
Like what were they down on the road to the spurs, like 35 at one point?
- [34:01]
A
Well, it was a 10, it was a 12 point game at halftime and they got outscored 40 to 16 in the third quarter.
- [34:07]
C
And then there was the, the.
- [34:09]
A
They got smoked at home by Minnesota and Giannis booed back at the crowd after getting booed, you know, and look like a Monday afternoon game in Atlanta is not a game typically the road team wins. Just like a weekend noon game in New York, it's not typically a game a home team wins or a noon game in LA is not typically a game the road team wins. Like those are.
- [34:31]
C
Why not in Atlanta?
- [34:33]
A
People like to have a good time in big cities.
- [34:35]
B
They had a back to back. So they played Wednesday. Thursday.
- [34:39]
A
They played Tuesday and Thursday, I believe, didn't they? I guess you're right.
- [34:43]
B
Yeah. So their last game was Thursday.
- [34:45]
A
That's right. Played in San Antonio on Thursday.
- [34:47]
B
It is tradition in the NBA that once you go out on a road trip that you stay on the road that you don't go. There's a bunch of different reasons why. So even with three days off and also the fact that it's not exactly balmy in Milwaukee in January. So, you know, they flew to, they flew to Atlanta on Friday afternoon and so they had Friday night, Saturday night, Sunday night, we'll see a Monday morning.
- [35:13]
A
They had practiced the last couple days at Georgia Tech, went to both practices.
- [35:17]
C
And this is going to be a great hoop collective jinx.
- [35:20]
A
Yeah, I mean, look, the Bucks, seriously, like I come out, listen, Atlanta's playing terribly right now. I mean, you know, they just got back from the west coast and got smoked on Saturday, Saturday night by Boston. So, you know, we'll see what happens on Monday.
- [35:34]
B
But yeah, so you've gone to both Bucs practices, by the way, on Saturday. I should note that Jaylen Brown in his hometown of Atlanta put up 41 in that one that you were at.
- [35:43]
A
Celtics are playing great. Jason Tatum is getting closer to coming back. So he was there too.
- [35:48]
B
And so anyway, you've been around the Bucks last couple of days. What do you have to report?
- [35:52]
A
I mean, the Bucks, I would say the Bucks messaging is consistent with what it's been. There's been no talk about Giannis getting traded. I don't anticipate him getting traded. I think their expectation is to do what they've done the past few years at the deadline, which is be very aggressive under John Horst to try to get better, add to the team. We'll see what aggressive means. We'll see what that turns into with what gets added to the roster.
- [36:17]
B
Yeah, we reported in our thing that we came out with on Friday, we said that they're basically the only team that every, single, you know, team in the league says is a buyer.
- [36:27]
A
Yeah, I mean, there's not a lot of teams right now that have either the ability or, like, are incredibly motivated to do stuff around the league for a variety of reasons. Some of it is because a lot of teams are waiting on Giannis for some can't do stuff because of financial reasons or draft pick, lack of draft picks to move. But Milwaukee's obviously got incentive to make moves. The question is, what are they going to do? And there's, you know, there's, you know, I. We'll see if Zach Levine is an option there. We'll see if some other move is an option there. But I would. I would imagine they'll try to improve the team. I don't think Giannis is going to get traded. I. I'm sure there. Maybe there's a world where they continue to be this bad for a couple of weeks that things change. I don't think that is going to happen. I expect this to go into the summer, and then we'll see what happens.
- [37:12]
B
By the way, the reason the summer is a thing for Giannis is because that's, you know, he. He's extended his contract with Milwaukee like three or four times, but he has an extension window this summer, which is why that's.
- [37:25]
A
And this is one thing I think that is worth pointing out that we haven't, like, really clarified lately. Do you know when his extension window is?
- [37:32]
B
It's in August, isn't it?
- [37:33]
A
It's in October.
- [37:35]
B
Oh, my God.
- [37:36]
A
So. Or it's in the fall. I'm pretty sure it's in October because of when he signed the last one, so.
- [37:41]
B
Right. He said he wasn't going to extend.
- [37:43]
A
And then he did. Right before the season started.
- [37:45]
B
Yeah.
- [37:46]
A
So this is. This is a thing where. If it, if you really. If this really becomes a. Wait until Giannis can sign the extension and see what Giannis does. Deal. That's right before the season starts. That's not even in. That's not like a June 30 discussion or an at the draft discussion unless.
- [38:02]
B
He makes it that.
- [38:04]
A
Well, no, he could, but I just mean they could go to him and say, hey, Giannis, are you going to sign this extension in October? And he could say, I don't know. I'm going to think about it. I'll let you know in October.
- [38:12]
B
That's what he's did. Has done in the past.
- [38:14]
A
I know. So it's just. It's worth pointing out that for all the talk about, let's see what happens in the summer, it could really be, let's see what happens in October, which would be an interesting twist on this.
- [38:24]
B
They go into summer. Giannis likes to unplug in the summer and go to Greece. And this summer there is. It's a. It's a dead summer in international basketball. No World cup, no Olympics, no European championships. It's. There's. There's no major events, so he would. He would not have any of that this summer.
- [38:46]
A
Yeah. So, I mean, look, it. It's obviously not been a great couple of weeks. You know, there are a couple of games, but it's actually a really important game for Milwaukee beyond just the obvious need to get back on track. The hawks are in 10th in the east and in the last playing spot. And the Bucks are. I want. They're tied in the loss column, but I think they're. I want to say they're a game and a half back because they've played three less games. So it's a pretty big swing game for Milwaukee to try to build some momentum that way, because, by the way, their schedule coming up, if you want to talk about a team that's scuffling, this is their schedule over the next couple of weeks. They've got this game in Atlanta on Monday. They then go home to play Oklahoma City on Wednesday, which we'll talk about and talk about them in a minute. Then they play Denver on Friday. They have Dallas on Sunday. That one might feel pretty good about. But then they're at Philly, at Washington, which, again, probably feel pretty good about, and then at Boston. So that's their schedule over the next two weeks. That's a lot of difficult games for a team that is already scuffling in the stand, which is why it makes Monday's team really important. Right.
- [39:57]
C
I mean, to be clear, the Bucs would not even be a play in team at this point. You talk about the Bucks being buyers, it's okay. But they're trying to buy with a credit card. It's almost maxed out. It's not like they've got a lot of purchasing power. Although if they want to talk about one of those, you know, far out picks, I think there will be some, you know, there will be some interest. They want to talk about those.
- [40:20]
A
So maybe is there a world where they do say a Zach Levine trade, where it's like the Trey Young deal and they just send out contracts and they don't have to send a pick? Like maybe, maybe that's a deal.
- [40:31]
B
Bontempson I had a quote in our story. I had an executive who's been around for a while say to me, look, Milwaukee's got a couple of draft picks left still and they've got $14 million under the luxury tax. He said, I've seen chicken salad made from work.
- [40:48]
C
Yeah.
- [40:49]
A
And look, and John Horst has been aggressive and has done a lot of moves in the past. So like I, I think the Bucks will probably have a better roster in two and a half weeks than they do today. I think the question is, to your point, McMahon, how much of their future stuff are they giving up to do that and can it make any real difference? Because I think we all agree this team is not good enough. It doesn't have a path to being a contender in any real way in the east, barring something miraculous. But if you're trying to talk yourself into this, they clearly have the best player in the conference and the conference is not exactly full of a murderer's row of teams at the top. So if they can get better and can find a way to get in and Giannis is healthy on April 15, they're going to go into any series with the best player on the court and they could say, hey, we're going to go into the series of the best player and we think we'll have a chance because of that. Now, I think there's a lot of work to be done to even get in the playoffs from here that requires Giannis to stay healthy. All of these things have to align, but that's where I could see them. You know, I could see yourself being talked into, hey, if we can make a couple moves to add a couple pieces on the margins and Giannis stays healthy, this could start to go in another direction. But that's a lot of ifs, ands and buts. And you know, yes, they have some stuff to work with, but they don't have a lot of. So be interested to see what they do. More HOOPP Collective podcast after this. This episode is brought to you by State Farm. Listening to this podcast Smart move. Being financially savvy. Smart move. Another Smart move having State Farm help you create a competitive price when you.
- [42:31]
B
Choose to bundle home and auto bundling.
- [42:34]
A
Just another way to save with a personal price plan like a good enough neighbor, State Farm is there. Prices are based on rating plans that vary by state. Coverage options are selected by the customer. Availability, amount of discounts and savings and eligibility vary by state. This is pro linebacker TJ Watt and I'm back with YPB by Abercrombie for another activewear drop. My second co design collection has new shorts and tanks that keep up with all my in season workouts. And their new restore collection is a game changer off the field too because. Because even pro athletes like me need rest days. Shop YPB by Abercrombie in the app, online and in stores because your personal best is greater than anything.
- [43:19]
C
New year. Same extra value meals at McDonald's.
- [43:22]
A
So now get two snack wraps plus fries and a medium soft drink for just $8 for a limited time only. Prices and participation may vary. Prices may be higher in Hawaii, Alaska and California. And for delivery.
- [43:38]
B
Speaking of health, we have some some depressing health updates that we need to give. So first off, the Clippers were in a really good place. And I'm not saying that they're not going to be in a really good place, but they'd gone 11 and 2 and basically gotten themselves back into the play in mix and, you know, could dream. And in fact, the Clippers went from a team that some people were thinking would might be a quiet seller to now becoming a team they're saying could be a buyer. And so on Monday they're playing at Washington with a game that they're pretty heavily favored in, but probably go to.
- [44:18]
A
13 and 2 in their last 15 games. With that win that assures a Wizards win.
- [44:23]
B
Congratulations to the Wizards.
- [44:25]
C
The Lizards still the Wizards.
- [44:27]
A
The Wizards I don't think will be congratulating on that if they that ain't.
- [44:30]
B
A W. DraftKings says that the Clippers are favored by 7 1/2 in that game right now.
- [44:38]
C
Anyway, good company, man with that promo. I like that.
- [44:41]
B
Thank you. You're welcome. The Clippers, however, are on this east coast trip. They sent Kawhi back home due to knee irritation. It's never good when a player gets sent home on a long road trip. Never ever good when Kawhi gets sent home. I don't care what they say. I don't care if they say he's got a hangnail and then they say it's with his knee. No sir. No. Don't like, don't like. And so that's one thing. On Sunday, the Cavs issued before you were in Atlanta, you were in Philly the other night. Bond temps and you saw the Cavs with The miraculous baseball series two zero run out of Philly, including a career game from second year player Jalen Tyson, who at the. Who had 39 in the game winning assist.
- [45:36]
A
Someone may have texted me on Friday, McMahon, that quote, a star is born. Someone may have texted me that on Friday.
- [45:41]
C
I didn't realize his brother's the wide receiver who's going to be a first round pick in the NFL.
- [45:46]
A
I didn't know that either. I saw that the other day.
- [45:48]
B
That was wild. I love what George he said to George Sedano. So he gets to walk off interview because he's, you know, he's had the game of his life. And George is like, how about your, you know, your brother. This is an amazing time for you guys. Your brother will be a top 10 pick. He was like, nah man, he's gonna be a top five pick.
- [46:03]
C
I like that.
- [46:04]
B
I respect it. Anyway, I was being facetious when I said a star is born, but I.
- [46:09]
A
Know I, but the man had. We're just having a little fun. Listen, we're having a little fun. In Cav's corner, you're about to have some sad news. In Cav's corner, a couple nice wins. You know, it's okay.
- [46:17]
B
So on, on Wednesday, Darius Garland just had this, this not good looking fall on his right foot. And instantaneously he said that's not good. And so he had an MRI and they diagnosed him with a toe sprain. Now I, the thing about is, is they say 7 to 10 days he'll be reevaluated. So that doesn't sound bad. But last year, you know, you have a, you have turf toe and it derails seasons and he had turf toe last year and it derailed his season and it's still affecting this season and needed.
- [46:46]
A
I mean the interesting thing about this is it's the other foot.
- [46:49]
C
I know, right?
- [46:50]
A
But that's the interesting thing about it. No, no, I know. I don't know if that's, I guess.
- [46:54]
C
That'S, if I guess that's good news that it's not aggravating the one that's been bothered.
- [46:59]
B
I don't know, maybe, maybe he's got toes that are susceptible to this. I, you know, Garland for like two years kept getting hit in the face. Like this is happened, this happens to. There's some guys who have this happen to him.
- [47:11]
C
But like, Dwight Powell is the lead league leader in that. Go on.
- [47:14]
B
Yeah, there is something about this where some players get hit in the face. Garland kept getting hit in the face. He had a concussion. Then he broke his jaw and then he kept getting hit. He hurt his eye. And now he can't avoid toe injuries because he had the toe surgery last year. He comes back, he's just ramping up and he re injures the same toe in Miami a few months ago. He's just getting back to full speed from that injury and now he does his right toe.
- [47:43]
C
I'd like to chime in further, but you guys outlawed me from any toe analysis after my discussion on mid rated jump shots last year.
- [47:50]
A
Correctly, by the way. Correctly.
- [47:53]
C
Yeah, I still think that one fit.
- [47:55]
B
Jackson said that he did analytics and that there was a bump from. Just because I think it got posted on some websites that you may not necessarily want to be associated with. Just.
- [48:10]
A
No, don't do it.
- [48:11]
B
Don't do it. Don't do it. I was just.
- [48:13]
C
I was testing the. The. These fancy damn cameras moving all around still.
- [48:17]
A
They really gotta zoom in on your.
- [48:19]
C
Face if they do the same thing. Stop gestures.
- [48:22]
A
Stop.
- [48:23]
C
Anyway, I have socks on too.
- [48:26]
A
Just stop.
- [48:27]
C
No nudity here.
- [48:30]
B
Anyway, so that. That's less than ideal. So we'll see the Cavs play the Thunder on Monday and MLK one of the MLK Premium games.
- [48:40]
C
And they don't have good news either.
- [48:43]
B
Jalen Williams. J Dub will not be playing in that game because in Miami on Saturday, a big win for the Heat. Bam. Adebayo with a big performance there. The Heat get a close win. He pulled his right hamstring. I don't know what they. I don't know what they call they. Strained. I don't know what they call.
- [48:58]
C
Well, yeah, they, they. When he exited the game, they said right thigh soreness.
- [49:05]
B
I mean, he was grabbing the back of his leg. I don't know what.
- [49:08]
C
He's now ruled out for a right hamstring strain. They are not specifying the grade of the strain. They are not.
- [49:19]
B
I'm sure they will not.
- [49:20]
C
Yes, they are not announcing any kind of timetable, by the way, just as they didn't with Isaiah Hartenstein on the current soleus strain that is sidelined him since late last month. But, you know, just in case you're wondering how J Dub felt about the situation, you kind of have to have like an eye for art and be able to interpret stuff for this. But on his Instagram stories, he posted a Picture of a little kid sitting in the toilet bowl and flushing. So that's how he feels about the situation. I don't think that was a happy picture.
- [50:01]
B
He's been talking about how his wrist injury, which needed two surgeries. He was saying the other day, like I'm paraphrasing that people don't understand that this injury like this isn't something like you have the surgery and then you're back. He's like, he says it might take a year or more.
- [50:22]
C
His three pointer is not, I mean, shooting like 27 and a half percent from three. He doesn't have full range of motion back in the Wrist. He missed 19 games to start a season. It's been a really. Yeah. And he's still, he's contributing, but he's not the player that he was last year. There's been a lot of frustration and now look a best case scenario with a hamstring strain, you're looking at two to four weeks.
- [50:47]
A
Well, and it's three and a half weeks till the All Star break. So to me, I'm, I this, I have no knowledge. I've talked to literally nobody in Oklahoma City, but it would, it would seem unlikely to me that we see Jalen Williams until at least after the All Star break. And you know, I, I have a lot of sympathy for him because like you said McMahon, it's been a really tough few months for him. He obviously had the unbelievable performance in the playoffs. 40 point game dealing with this thing with his wrist. But this has obviously been a tough thing to get back from in the season and trying to come back and play midstream and keep up with everybody. He comes back, they start scuffling and losing some games. Now this happens, but hopefully, you know, he can get himself healthy for the stretch run and get back out there then. But yeah, I mean it's at least for the next few weeks till the All Star break. I think it's unlikely we'll see him back out there.
- [51:39]
B
Nice happy updates at the beginning of the beginning with all these injuries. Before we go, I should say that the Lakers won tonight against the Raptors. A needed win, desperately needed win. I think they lost.
- [51:53]
A
Second night of a back to back. That's a big one, I think LeBron.
- [51:56]
C
For some of the players. Not for Luca.
- [51:59]
B
Luca did not go. Did he go to Portland or did he just skip going?
- [52:02]
C
I didn't see him on the bench when I was watching the game. Luca's been known to sit out if it's a road home back to back to spin the road part on the couch. And that's something that's happened before.
- [52:16]
B
Well, LeBron played in both ends of the back to back, and that's two back to backs he's played in now. And The Lakers won.
- [52:23]
A
LeBron can't miss another game to avoid not being eligible to make all NBA for a 22nd.
- [52:31]
B
Yeah, I'm not sure that's the motivation. I think the.
- [52:34]
A
I'm not saying it is. I'm not saying it isn't. It's just. It's interesting that he missed another game. That's.
- [52:38]
C
He played well tonight.
- [52:40]
B
Yeah, he had 24 points. He's played over 30 minutes in both those games. By the way, Deandre Ayton, maybe his best game as a Laker in this one. He goes 10 of 10 from the line. 13 rebounds.
- [52:52]
A
Yeah, no, 10.
- [52:53]
C
10 from the floor, you mean.
- [52:54]
B
Well, I'm sorry, 10 of 10 from.
- [52:55]
C
The floor, 25 points, 13 rebounds.
- [52:57]
B
10 and 10 points from the line, which is still pretty good.
- [52:59]
A
Yeah. Speaking of LeBron, we'll also find out on Monday if he's officially not going to be an All Star starter for the first time ever. And after being an All Star starter 21 years in a row, when the starters are.
- [53:10]
B
Except will be an All Star starter.
- [53:11]
C
Because with an asterisk on this weird thing.
- [53:14]
A
Are we sure? I'm not sure he's going to make the team.
- [53:16]
B
Well, I don't know.
- [53:16]
C
You know, Richard, I'm sure Adam Silver is going to put him on the team.
- [53:19]
A
Well, look, I. We didn't talk about reserves last week, but there's a lot of good players in the last year.
- [53:24]
B
We talked about Pascal Siakam.
- [53:26]
A
Well, we did talk about one reserve. That's true. But I didn't end up putting him on my team. And, and I didn't have Kawhi in the team either. And he was the commissioner's pick as the extra guy to get to the 16American players. And he's had a better year than LeBron for sure.
- [53:42]
C
Who has more power, Adam Silver or the uswb?
- [53:46]
A
Well, I'm just, I'm just saying it's there. Well, it's hard. It's.
- [53:51]
B
It's. I know it'll be an interesting case. Has said that, you know, he, you know, he didn't use the words that Rich doesn't speak for me. But, you know, he's basically said Rich is his own man when it comes to his podcast. But on the podcast, Rich. Rich's podcast with Max Kellerman, he said LeBron doesn't want to be a charity case for the All Star Game. Now if he was averaging eight points and you know, limping to his final year, that's fine.
- [54:17]
A
He's going to be, he's going to.
- [54:19]
C
Be an honorary guy who didn't have anything close to those numbers as last year.
- [54:23]
A
If LeBron isn't in the 24, it's going to be seen as a charity case and he shouldn't be in the 24.
- [54:30]
B
His numbers aren't going to be the.
- [54:31]
A
24 because his numbers are. His numbers aren't good enough in my opinion. Well, and his numbers are fine. Like he's having a good year.
- [54:40]
C
The Lakers aren't good enough to have two.
- [54:43]
B
They're in fifth place.
- [54:45]
C
Okay, let me ask you this. How many All Stars are the Thunder going to have?
- [54:49]
A
Well, I mean we can do this from the other day. Right now we can actually go through the reserves in the west and lay them out.
- [54:57]
C
Did you have Chet Holmgren? Okay, so that's interesting because I'm just telling you there's a, there's going to be a strong push from OKC to get Chet. And a big part of it is.
- [55:09]
A
There'S never, I think it's a no brainer, but there's never been a team.
- [55:12]
C
That'S had a 80 plus winning percentage not to have at least two all stars. Chad doesn't have the big scoring numbers, but he definitely has a defensive impact. So there's going to be a big push there.
- [55:22]
A
Yep.
- [55:23]
B
I remember when, when I was covering the Cavs and they were on their way to 67 win season. Yeah, 66.
- [55:32]
A
66.
- [55:33]
B
I don't remember what their record was at the break, but it was pretty damn good. And only LeBron made the team. And it wasn't 800, but it was like mid high. Seven percentage is 700. And I remember Ben Wallace said it was a Travis Sham Ockery and then Mo Williams made it as a injury replacement.
- [55:53]
C
There you go. His one All Star appearance I believe.
- [55:55]
A
I mean this was. These were the players that I had in from okc. I had just starters and reserves together. I had Shea and Chet from okc, that's two. I had Victor from the spurs, that's three. Jamal Murray and Nicole Jokic from the Nuggets, that's five. And Anthony Edwards from the Wolves, that's six. And I'll Perrin Shingoon and Kevin Durant from the Rockets, that's eight.
- [56:20]
B
Are you saying Shangun's got a better case than LeBron?
- [56:22]
A
I think so.
- [56:23]
B
I would agree maybe, but it's. He hasn't been playing great the last few weeks. Go ahead.
- [56:29]
A
Okay.
- [56:30]
C
Well, he was hurt for a little bit, but not sure.
- [56:32]
A
I had Devin Booker from the Suns. That's nine.
- [56:36]
C
Ooh, controversial.
- [56:38]
A
I had Stephen Curry from the warriors. That's 10. I had Denny Avia from. He's making lazers. Yeah, that's 11. And then I had Kawhi. But I had one other person that I'm now not remembering.
- [56:55]
C
Kawhi's 12.
- [56:57]
A
Oh, did I not. I. Oh, I didn't say Luca. That was who. I didn't. I didn't say. I skipped over the Lakers. I had Luka as the other one. Yeah, that was 12. And then I had Kawhi as the 13th person.
- [57:06]
B
I was going to say, like, yeah, if you want to point out he's on the bubble, I say you're right. I think it's going to be hard for him not to be in the game and certainly it's not a cherry.
- [57:17]
C
So you would take him over Shingoon then?
- [57:21]
B
I'm not prepared to do the full analysis.
- [57:23]
A
Okay.
- [57:25]
C
Has to be an All Star this year, by the way. It'd be his first All Star appearance. And I asked him there in Dallas. I asked him like, what would that mean to you? He didn't enjoy the question. He basically said that you guys have to find another narrator narrative. I'm like, okay, well, look, I was putting this like, he's a no brainer. All sorts of.
- [57:43]
B
If the coaches get to the last line and I don't, you know, I'm not looking to draw the ire of the Thunder fans. If the coaches get to the last line and they're trying to decide between Chet and LeBron. Come on.
- [57:55]
C
I can't see the Rockets getting to and not that Thunder.
- [57:59]
A
I.
- [57:59]
C
And I don't know that.
- [58:01]
B
Okay, well then the last line is Sengun and LeBron, you know, whatever, whoever you want to make the last line. Okay.
- [58:07]
A
I mean, LeBron is. LeBron has been fine. His numbers aren't as good as any of these guys. Like, if you want to say he just has to be in the All Star Game, that's not.
- [58:15]
B
But my point is he's not a charity case. He's averaging 23, 7 and 6 and he's shooting 51%.
- [58:22]
A
Well.
- [58:23]
C
And the funny thing is, if it comes down between Alpi and LeBron, then LeBron or I'm sorry, then Alpi would get it anyways because they probably need.
- [58:31]
A
Another international players the shortage is going to be on the American players, not the international players, okay?
- [58:38]
C
Oh, that's right. What if it's Kawhi or LeBron? What if that's the. Oh, come on, Wendy, I aspire to make you make a call on me.
- [58:46]
B
Well, you know how I feel about the Clippers. I was on the verge of being vindicated and I mean, the funniest outcome.
- [58:51]
A
Of all of this would be the one I laid out in the column, which is there needing to be one person added and Kawhi being the very obvious person to add. And adding Kawhi to the All Star Game at the Intuit Dome with the aspiration stuff hanging over the Clippers and Kawhi and the league going into the All Star Game like, well, we got to add this guy as the clear guy to add and by the way, he would be the clear guy to add then he's been incredible.
- [59:17]
C
But oh, and then by the way, his knees acting up and he can't play anyway.
- [59:21]
A
Yes, that's the other part too.
- [59:23]
B
Speaking of the Lakers. So they get this win, they begin tomorrow, they leave for an eight game road trip. I guess they don't really leave for that long because they go to Denver and then they come home to play the Clippers. So I guess they're actually leaving at.
- [59:38]
A
Denver Tuesday at the Clippers Thursday off.
- [59:42]
B
Off ramp here, 30 second timeout. May I point out that the Charlotte Hornets won in Denver this weekend and completed their west coast trip at 3 and 2, which didn't include their previous road trip when they went into Oklahoma City and won. And when they have their best lineup out there, which is, you know, you know, Brandon Miller, con canipple, Lamelo ball, Miles Bridges, like those guys are continuing to play well. And I was, you know, watching him against the Lakers the other night like they got some juice.
- [60:14]
C
They can score, they can score seven.
- [60:16]
B
Games under.500 because they, they, you know, they didn't play well with, with Miller out earlier.
- [60:22]
A
Yeah.
- [60:22]
B
But they got some juice.
- [60:24]
C
I have upgraded to become lukewarm on the mellow.
- [60:28]
A
By the way, they're five and a half point. They're five and a half points per 100 better this year when he's on the court and they're plus three overall when he's on the court, like he's had a really good season for them.
- [60:40]
B
So one of the whispers at the beginning of the year were does Trey Young get traded? Does Job Moran get traded? And what about Lamelo with Concanippo sort of coming in as A new cornerstone, obviously.
- [60:52]
C
Yes. Probably. It doesn't look like it.
- [60:54]
B
Well, I'm just saying, like, what I'm saying is, is that the Hornets are putting some. Something together here. And you know, they've been very patient in this rebuild. But I think of what you would see what you'd say about the Hornets if you go look at their moves for the last. What do you want to say? Bond temps, 18 months.
- [61:11]
A
Yeah. Last couple years, like since the new owners took over.
- [61:14]
B
They've made. And like they're. None of them are like, okay, let's lead the Hoop Collective or Countdown or NBA Today with them. But they like, they just keep stacking, like smart moves where they'll make a move and they'll pick up a good asset or they'll make a move.
- [61:29]
A
They got a top two protective pick from the Mavs next year. It looks pretty good.
- [61:32]
C
They do. I believe that was the previous regime, but yeah.
- [61:35]
B
So anyway, they went into Denver and won and I know that. That you know that Jokic isn't playing, but Denver's been very, very good. They were the second. They were number two in the west when. When the Charlotte came in there on the fifth game of a West coast trip and beat them. Which, by the way, before they did that, Golden State won. And I think Golden State is now 111 of 15. Golden State beats Charlotte. And that. That went over Charlotte is. I'm going to say that's a nice win, frankly. It's a good win. And 11 out of 11 and four.
- [62:04]
C
Well, the Lakers sure didn't beat Charlotte.
- [62:07]
B
And I think they're five and one on.
- [62:09]
A
They smoke the Thunder, the Nuggets and the Lakers lately. That's pretty good. Yeah. Yeah.
- [62:13]
B
Jonathan Kaminga played none of those 15 games. Okay, Lakers schedule coming up. Now. The Lakers are. Have been a very good road team this year.
- [62:23]
C
Just a side swipe.
- [62:27]
B
He might get traded and go average 20 and 10.
- [62:29]
A
I'm just saying he's just zooming around.
- [62:32]
B
People think that this guy is like Bob Cousy, all right.
- [62:36]
A
I don't think they think it's like.
- [62:37]
C
People who like Kaminga don't know who Bob Cousy is, but they think he's like.
- [62:41]
B
I meant to say Bob Pettit. I misspoke. I was sorry.
- [62:46]
A
It was also an insult to Bob Pettit here.
- [62:48]
B
We'll freeze so Jackson can fix it. People act like he's Bob Pettit. Good job.
- [62:54]
A
There you go. All right, schedule at Denver, at the Clippers, at the Mavs, at the Bulls, at The Cavs at the Wizards, at the Nets, at the Sixers. At the Sixers. And then all the way back to the. Sorry, the Sixers game is back home. They go home, play the Sixers the night of the trade deadline. So they're on the road through the trade deadline.
- [63:17]
C
Well, the Clippers game's a quasi home game and the Mavericks game might be a quasi home game. I don't know if Lucas told his place in Dallas or not either. Maybe they can have a slumber party.
- [63:27]
A
There's also a Nick game in there that I skipped over the ESPN app. Skip cut it off somehow. But it's Knicks Nets to end the road trip in the, In New York going into the trade deadline.
- [63:35]
B
Yeah. So they're basically gone. I mean, again, they'll be home, sleep in their beds for a couple days when they're playing the Clippers, but they're basically crypto.com is they're gone till the trade deadline. Is this the Grammys? This is the Grammy trip.
- [63:48]
A
It's gotta be the Grammy trip. Yeah. Yeah. The next game is Thursday night of the trade deadline against the Sixers in crypto. So next time they'll have a long game.
- [63:56]
B
That game in Cleveland, that's a long time TV game.
- [64:00]
A
16 day road trip.
- [64:01]
B
Well, again, they come home. They come home.
- [64:04]
A
But they, but I'm saying they don't play a home game for 16 days.
- [64:07]
B
Yeah. So it's.
- [64:08]
A
That's crazy.
- [64:09]
B
Yeah. Like, so the question is, when we get to the trade deadline, where are the Lakers going to be? Literally, like, where are they going to be as a team? I will point out that game in Cleveland, which is on January 28th. It's possible it's LeBron's last game in Cleveland and so.
- [64:21]
C
No. Or he might have like 41 more.
- [64:23]
B
Well, that's the thing. So like, if you're the Cavs, you're like, he's. The Cavs are in total celebration mode of their, of their greats. Like, Kevin Love got a huge standing ovation last week and he went up and pointed to the banner and then pointed to his ring. I was on NBA today, the next day with Iman Shumpert, and I was like, shump, you got to go back. It's got to be a month Shumpert night. Like, just bring the 2000 because it's 10th anniversary. Bring the 2016 guys in one. Channing Frye, this is your life. So, you know, like, that could be a moment and if nothing else, then just a reminder that, you know, LeBron's a free agent next year. And you know, the Cavs still have issues at the small forward spot. Okay. So. Yeah, so a real challenge here to see how they handled this.
- [65:06]
C
Well, I'll tell you one place they'll be and that's in the bottom five of the defensive efficiency rankings. And that's why like this team's not going anywhere because they're yet they are.
- [65:15]
B
50 or 13 and eight on the road. Like they still somehow.
- [65:19]
A
Yeah.
- [65:20]
C
Do you see the Lakers getting out of the first round of the playoffs? I think it's more likely they're a playing team than a second round team.
- [65:26]
B
In all honesty, like if you, if you watch the game against the Hornets the other night, the Hornets, I have to look and see what the net ratings are. Net rating right now rating being the, the, the scoreboard per 100 possessions. And we're now we're past the 41 game mark. So yeah, you're going to have, you know, variances in net ratings.
- [65:45]
A
So the Charlotte Hornets have a net rating of positive 0.2.
- [65:50]
B
Yes.
- [65:51]
A
And before it does not count tonight's game. So it'll probably be slightly higher. But the Los Angeles Lakers have a net rating of negative 1.2.
- [66:00]
B
Right. So the Hornets and Lakers are. The Hornets. The Hornets have been a better team per 100 possessions over the course of 43 games than the Lakers over the course of 41 games going into this.
- [66:12]
A
Game tonight, the Hornets were 16th in net rating at positive 0.2. The Clippers were 17th in net rating at negative 0.9 and the Grizzlies were 18th in net rating at negative 1.1. Those, those three teams are 11 games under.500, five games under 500 and five games under.500. The Lakers are now nine games over.500 and there's obviously not another team in the standings below them in net rating. That is over.
- [66:38]
B
And look, you can, you can throw tomatoes at net rating with various things. I'm not saying it's the be all end all. I'm just saying the Hornets net rating is better than the Lakers. And The Hornets are nine games under.500. And the Lakers are actually. The Hornets are 11 games under.500. The Lakers are nine games over.500. And I'm telling you after watching that game the other night, because of the dynamics of that particular matchup and how athletic the Hornets are and how they play fast. I don't, I would pick the Hornets in a series against the Lakers.
- [67:08]
C
Well, the Lakers can't guard anybody.
- [67:12]
B
Yes.
- [67:13]
A
If the Lakers can get to A close game. The reason they've been, they have a very good record is because they've been incredible in close games. I want to say their record is I think 13 and I'm trying to look it up quick. I'll look it up real quick. 13 and 1, they're 13 and 1 in clutch games. So that means in all the rest of the games that they play, they're 12 and 14. So when it's not a, you know that the reason the net rating matters is. Yes, if you have LeBron James and Luka Doncic, you're probably going to make good decisions. You're probably going to get free throws late in games there. Those are star players who make big plays like they can win you games. However, over the, over the course of time, being in that many close games, you're going to eventually start to, just by luck and chance lose some of those games. So the reason that rating is a good barometer of how good a team is is because like if you're consistently 5, 6, 7 points better than your opponent, you're going to traditionally win a lot more games. And when you get into a playoff series and you have to see a team play, see a team seven times in a row and the Lakers have these very clear and obvious flaws from particularly defensive and athleticism standpoints on the perimeter, you know, Yeah, I, if they have to play the spurs or the Wolves or the Rockets or the Nuggets or the Thunder, like I just. It's very difficult to see how they match up with any of those teams favorably over seven game series. They're a lot like the warriors, the other team with a bunch of hall of Fame players late in their careers on the team where the warriors can look really good sometimes and have had some really nice wins. And they've also had some real clunkers against bad teams because they're up and down and they have a team that's got some strengths and some real flaws. And that's why both those teams are hovering around the plane right now.
- [68:59]
C
But the warriors guard people. The Lakers don't. The only teams that are worse defensively than the Lakers are the Kings, the Pelicans, the Wizards and the Jazz. That's terrible. Terrible. Tanking.
- [69:11]
A
Tanking. It's not good.
- [69:14]
B
You mentioned free throws just because, you know, this is a number that certain people in the league just go crazy about. You know, the Lakers just over the last, what is it, like 10 or 15 years?
- [69:23]
A
Like they're just some 20, 20, 700.
- [69:26]
B
Years ungodly amount of more free throws in their opponent, which just drives people crazy in those certain people.
- [69:33]
A
Yes, many people.
- [69:36]
B
The Lakers have played now 41 games. So they're at the halfway point of the season. They have 197 more free throws than their opponents.
- [69:45]
C
You know, and the thing about the Lakers is their flaws aren't going to be fixed. Not, not this season. It's roster remodel and you know that. And JJ is driving himself insane and probably driving some players insane.
- [70:01]
B
I know.
- [70:01]
C
Like that's the thing, is that things.
- [70:02]
B
Are going the Lakers way this year. Like JJ is wound this tight when they're 13 and one in clutch games.
- [70:09]
A
Well, and I think, to be fair to JJ I think the reason for that is what we're talking about, right? Like, yeah, you could sit here and go, oh man, The Lakers are 25 and 16 at the halfway mark. It's a 50 win pace, amazing season. Another championship banner is coming to la if you want. Or you can look at it realistically and say, if we're going to actually be a team that's trying to beat these elite teams in the west, we cannot be 26th in defense. And that has to change. And if that's going to change, it's going to require everybody buying in at a different level than they are. And I, I don't think that's, I, I agree. I don't think it's happening. And I, you know, I, you could say, well, the Lakers should try to add pieces. I think there's too many holes to fill at the trade deadline to really fix their defensive.
- [70:58]
C
Well, holes to fill and future to prioritize.
- [71:01]
B
Right.
- [71:01]
C
Because you don't want to take back long term money. Because if there's any team that can build with, you know, free agency as a primary part of their plan, it's the Los Angeles Lakers. I mean, the Lakers and the Heat are the two that have had the most success in free agency over the years. But you have to, you have to surround Luka with length, athleticism and some shooting and they don't have it. Deandre Ayton had a great game tonight. He's not going to be a defensive anchor. It's never going to happen. Marcus Smart used to be an elite defender. That was a long time ago and it's, and it's not going to happen. LeBron used to be a great defender. LeBron's 41 years old and knows this is probably it for him in la. And he's frankly not going to exhaust any energy on that end of the floor. And Luka looks like a guy who he's very much in the pick and choose when he feels like exhausting any energy on the defensive end again.
- [71:56]
B
He definitely uses energy talking to the referees, though.
- [72:01]
C
Well, and, you know, dodging things in the hallway after games and such.
- [72:07]
B
What if he didn't dodge it?
- [72:08]
C
I don't know anybody asked about that.
- [72:11]
B
That's enough for tonight. Thank you to Devon, Mark and Jackson for producing it. Thank you to bon Tempus and McMahon for yapping. Thank you for watching listening to the Hoop Collective. Talk to you next week.
- [72:22]
C
Adios, Migos.
- [72:34]
A
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- [72:49]
B
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A
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B
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A
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