Windy’s Rant: Done With Tanking & More + Spurs Finishing Strong & Knicks Rollercoaster

Summary

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Podcast Summary: Windy’s Rant: Done With Tanking & More + Spurs Finishing Strong & Knicks Rollercoaster

Podcast: Brian Windhorst & The Hoop Collective
Date: February 13, 2026
Host: Brian Windhorst
Panel: Anthony Slater, Vince Goodwill

Episode Overview

In this lively episode, Brian Windhorst opens with a signature “rant,” declaring his intention to retire from a handful of well-worn NBA topics, including tanking, All-Star Weekend gripes, and the Jonathan Kuminga saga. Joined by Anthony Slater and Vince Goodwill, the crew pivots from Windy’s rant into thoughtful, sometimes irreverent analysis on the NBA landscape—focusing on the surging Spurs, the Knicks’ extreme highs and lows, the remarkable play of Kawhi Leonard, and the evolving meaning and incentives of All-Star Weekend. Along the way, the insiders share industry stories, dissect team dynamics, and poke fun at themselves and each other.

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Windy's Edicts: Retiring Tired NBA Topics

[03:04–07:27]

• Windhorst issues a “self-imposed moratorium” on certain discussion topics:
  • No more talking about tanking before March:

    “With peace and love, I am not going to discuss the tanking situation anymore prior to March.” (B, 03:25)

  • Refuses to speculate about controversial injuries or the motives of teams suspected of tanking, stating he won’t analyze situations like Jaren Jackson Jr.’s injury and its trade implications.
  • Acknowledges the pressure on franchises like Washington, Sacramento, Indiana, and Utah to “do what they have to do”:

    “These teams have to do what they have to do. If I was in their situations, I would do it.” (B, 05:39)

• Bows out of All-Star Weekend debates, especially gripes about player participation, celebrity contest rosters, dunk contest oddities, and faux-nationalistic Team World rosters:

  “I am not going to talk about how Mac McClung said that he didn’t go in the dunk contest... I’m not going to talk about that. I do not care about the world Team... Not going to talk about it, Vince. You are there. I will rely on your coverage.” (B, 06:16)

• Jonathan Kuminga coverage is off-limits—unless new events occur. He praises Slater’s reporting but expresses “fatigue” on the Warriors-Kuminga saga.

  • “With peace and love, Slater, I hope that he averages 20 and 10 the rest of the season with Atlanta... I’m not talking about Kaminga anymore.” (B, 07:31, 15:41)

• Notable banter:
  • Vince likens Windhorst’s edicts to “the drunk uncle at a wedding rehearsal dinner airing grievances and then saying ‘I support it’” (D, 04:41).

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What the Kuminga Saga Was Really About

[10:12–16:11]

• Slater unpacks why the Kuminga storyline escalated:
  • It was “about so much more than Kuminga”—symbolizing the Warriors’ struggle to transition eras and manage “dynasty politics.”
    • “This was about the Warriors. This was about this brand franchise in the fading days of one of the most popular players in NBA history... And the castle politics of it all.” (C, 11:09)
  • The human element of Steve Kerr struggling to connect with Kuminga—contrasted with his rapport with other players—was a recurring theme. Vince speculates Kerr was “eaten up” by failing to reach Kuminga, leading to ecosystem toxicity (D, 13:46).
  • Slater notes Warriors internally shifted approach:

    “They told Jonathon Kaminga to his face and told the world, now you’re trade bait. And in a lot of ways, I think that freed Steve Kerr to coach him however he wanted to.” (C, 15:04)

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Kawhi Leonard: Quietly the Best in the NBA Right Now?

[20:38–27:40]

• The panel praises Kawhi Leonard’s dominant, under-the-radar season:
  • Kawhi’s “mechanical” perfection compared to late-90s Michael Jordan:

    “Kawhi looks like a very mechanical version of 96 to 98 Michael Jordan... I’m saying the aesthetic.” (D, 21:01)

  • Kawhi’s stats (after 41 games): 28 PPG (career high), 2.1 SPG (league high), near-50/40/90 splits (B, 23:01, 24:10)
  • Vince and Windhorst debate the MVP race and Kawhi’s durability, referencing Jokic’s recent post-injury struggles.
  • Kawhi could become “the most fascinating trade candidate” if contract issues escalate (C, 24:10).
  • The group discusses the “aspiration” contract scandal:
    • Windhorst: “What rule is [Kawhi] breaking? He’s not in charge of giving himself money.” (B, 25:36)
    • Vince: “You can ask for whatever you want if someone gives it to you.” (D, 25:43)

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NBA Team Food & Ownership Wealth

[29:04–31:10]

• Windhorst recalls the excess of Clippers’ playoff team food as a metaphor for Steve Ballmer’s ultra-wealth:

  • “I’ve never seen a spread like this in my life. I’ve gone to many wedding receptions for a hundred people that didn’t cost what they were serving.” (B, 29:38)

• Ballmer recently lost $20 billion in Microsoft stock—“but it’s just 12% of his net worth.” (B, 30:17–30:41)

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Spurs: Surging and Serious

[31:10–36:33]

• The team analyzes the Spurs’ late-season momentum, led by Victor Wembanyama:
  • Wemby’s recent domination (e.g., 37 points in a half, incredible blocks, and rapid improvement):

    “Everything... looks so easy for Big Vic, it looks like he’s toying with the league... he’s nowhere near where he’s ultimately going to wind up.” (D, 34:46)

  • Slater impressed by the seriousness and resilience; even after a nasty fall, key players return fast, signaling grit and urgency (C, 35:03).
  • Spurs are closing the gap in the standings, with home-court in sight, thanks to “serious nature” and buy-in throughout the roster.

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NBA All-Star Game: Lost Incentive

[36:33–42:25]

• Windhorst explains why the All-Star Game’s importance has faded:
  • The financial incentive for stars to compete hard has evaporated with massive salary growth (highest paid players: $16M in 2015 → $54M in 2026). Players no longer “need” the exposure or bonuses (B, 38:00–39:26).
  • Vince: “This is the ‘you can’t make me’ generation... Everybody’s thinking about themselves, right? The players... the teams... Nobody’s thinking of themselves as a business partner in this enterprise.” (D, 39:41)
  • Windhorst: “Growing the game is code for growing your paycheck.” (B, 40:49)
  • Kobe Bryant’s retirement marked the end of visible intra-player accountability. Fear of public ridicule on social media saps competitive effort in showcase games (B, 41:23, D, 41:27).
  • Vince bluntly: “They’ve become such snowflakes to some degree.” (D, 42:09)
  • Slater & Windhorst joke about breaking Windy’s own “no All-Star talk” rule

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Knicks: Wild Swings, Real Title Hopes?

[46:05–57:23]

• Windhorst summarizes the Knicks’ recent rollercoaster: crushing the Celtics, collapsing as 15-point favorites vs. Indiana, dominating again vs. Philly.
  • Vince: “Their highs are so high and their lows are so low... The question is, you don’t know what to believe.” (D, 48:30)
  • Can a swingy, high-variance team win three straight playoff series? Vince doubts it: “A team like that can win two playoff series, a third... they’re going to capitalize on those [flaws].” (D, 50:04)
  • Windhorst: “You make a great point... the difference between winning two playoff series and three or four... The level of competition you step up to—wow, this is another level.” (B, 51:13)
  • Cites Durant's veteran perspective:

    “Do you know what the difference is between winning seven playoff games and winning 16 is.” (B, 52:25)

  • The panel agrees regular season results are often irrelevant in the playoffs:

    “Different sport. Playoffs and regular season. Different sport.” (D, 57:59)

  • Insider whispers say “New York’s the best team [in the East],” but everyone hedges: “Will they play the best when it counts?” (B, 54:27–55:04, D, 54:55)

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Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments

• “With peace and love, I am not going to discuss the tanking situation anymore prior to March.”
  — Brian Windhorst [03:25]
• “This was about so much more than Jonathan Kaminga. This was about the Warriors... and the castle politics of it all.”
  — Anthony Slater [11:09]
• “Kawhi looks like a very mechanical version of 96 to 98 Michael Jordan... I know what I’m saying.”
  — Vince Goodwill [21:01]
• “Growing the game is code for growing your paycheck. That’s code. So if the paycheck is already exploding, what incentive do you have to do that?”
  — Brian Windhorst [40:49]
• “Everybody’s cashing in on nostalgia but not creating any. Like... what classic things are we creating now?... We are just cashing in on it.”
  — Vince Goodwill [39:51]
• “Their highs are so high and their lows are so low... The question is, you don’t know what to believe. Because their highs are so high and their lows are so low.”
  — Vince Goodwill [48:30]

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Timestamps: Key Segments

• Windy’s decree on retiring tanking/ASG/Kuminga talk: [03:04–07:27]
• Kuminga/Wizards Warriors dynamics unpacked: [10:12–16:11]
• Kawhi Leonard’s MVP run, trade speculation, and Ballmer’s wealth: [20:38–31:10]
• Spurs ascendancy, Wembanyama’s stardom, and injury resilience: [31:10–36:33]
• All-Star Game malaise: money, culture, and lost incentives: [36:33–42:25]
• Knicks’ rollercoaster, playoff readiness, and value of experience: [46:05–57:23]

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Tone and Style

The conversation is wide-ranging and candid, mixing knowing insider analysis with self-deprecating humor. The hosts toggle easily between irreverence (Windy’s “peace and love” rants and food stories) and thoughtful, nuanced takes on serious NBA themes. Panelists poke fun at each other while also sharing genuine concern for player welfare, league culture, and competitive implications.

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Summary prepared for those seeking in-depth coverage of major NBA discussion points, key storylines, and the ever-shifting league landscape—minus the tired rants and ad breaks.

Transcript

[A]

Kids, they grow up so fast. One day they're taking their first steps and the next they don't fit into the tiny sneakers they took them in. You blink your eyes and their princess dress is two sizes too small. And their dinosaur backpack isn't cool anymore. But don't cry because they're growing up. Smile because you can profit off of it for real. There are a bunch of parents on depop looking for the stuff your kid just grew out of. Download depop to start selling.

[B]

Hello, and welcome to the Hoop Collective podcast. We talk about the NBA, which we're doing on Thursday evening. Joining us from Northern California home base is Anthony Slater.

[C]

I'm just glad All Star Weekend's not here this year.

[B]

Yeah. By the way, I think America has come to know your backyard good.

[C]

You really put it on blast. I mean, they were probably like, oh, yeah, I guess I've thought about that. And you just planted on a viral comment where you were ranting about something that I'm sure you're gonna be ranting about soon again.

[B]

Never. I'll never do that. Joining us from Los Angeles, where, thank God, I escaped from today, but Vince Goodwill will hold down our coverage this weekend.

[D]

Not the only one, trust me. But this is the day before the hell hole begins in la.

[B]

Wendy Slater. Vinnie was sorry Vince was too clean on NBA Today. His suit that he had today was like, we don't. We don't meet that standard on NBA Today. You know, we dress up a little bit.

[C]

I hired some sunglasses too. Right.

[B]

I don't even know what that was.

[D]

You know, it's a Detroit thing. That's all. Just. It's a Detroit thing slightly.

[B]

That's like what Melo does. You know, Melo has the shades, like the half shades.

[D]

When he's Mello, you can't even see his eyes. I have a. The tint is dark enough where I got some nice eyes.

[C]

They're not transitioners, right? Where it's like they are little.

[D]

They're a little transition. They're a little Hennessy. Hennessy tent is the exact phrase.

[C]

There you go.

[D]

As if it wasn't black enough. It's called Hennessy Tent. That is the exact time, I promise you, this day in black history.

[B]

All you need to know about Vince Goodwill Slater is that I once went to a black tie wedding and he wore white. Was it white? You wore a different color tuxedo. You know, you wore blue. You wore a blue tuxedo.

[D]

It was a blue tuxedo.

[C]

I was going to say white to white to the wedding would have been.

[B]

I take it back. That was a total foul by me. A total insult to Vince. I want to pretend like I didn't say that. He wore a blue tuxedo to a black tie wedding and he pulled it off. All right.

[C]

He wants to stand out. You know, I get it.

[B]

I'm just telling you, he operates on a different level.

[C]

We're all.

[B]

We're all following him.

[D]

Okay, that's cute, Wendy.

[B]

All right, on the. This is where we're going to start. Where I'm going to ask you guys. Now, I've gone on rants with you before, and feel free. You guys sort of sit back and let me rant. But feel free to jump in.

[C]

Okay.

[B]

On what we're. What I'm about to do because I have some announcements we're going to make.

[C]

Can't wait.

[B]

I intend to follow through with these edicts that I'm going to make. They're edicts for myself. I would never issue an edict for anybody else. On my podcast. But not my podcast. Our podcast. With peace and love, I'm going. I am going to retire. Discussing several topics because I just, I. I can't do it anymore. Okay. The first topic that I'm going to. I'm prepared to say with peace and love, I am not going to discuss the tanking situation anymore prior to March.

[C]

And April is the time you're going to retire that isn't that like tanking season?

[B]

Slater, with peace and love, I am going to settle all family business. I'm waving the white flag. I'm done with it. Okay? I am not going to ask any questions about. And I feel terrible that Jaren Jackson Jr. Now needs knee surgery. I am not going to ask any questions about why if his physical wasn't failed and why Utah did not ask for a draft pick compensation for a player who needs knee surgery. I'm just going to wish him the best. I'm not going to analyze anything.

[C]

Subtle analysis that he's providing within these announcements right here.

[B]

I am. Nope. With peace and love, Washington, Sacramento, Indiana, Utah, do your thing. You know, Vince, this is kind of like certain people in prison get, like a pass on certain stuff. Y' all have a pass. You're all good people. I respect you as people. You all gotta do what you gotta do. All right? I ain't judging.

[D]

You know what this is like, Wendy? This is like the family rehearsal dinner before a wedding.

[B]

You're so right.

[D]

This is a family rehearsal dinner before a wedding. And the drunk uncle gets up and.

[B]

Says, I'm stone cold sober.

[D]

I don't like how this is going, but I'm not saying nothing. And then goes and lists his grievances on why his niece should not marry this man and then finishes off by saying, but I ain't saying nothing. I support it. I'm here. Good luck.

[C]

So. So Wendy's the drunk uncle Vince is over there in a completely off colored suit at this point. I like it.

[B]

Yes, correct. I wish I could. You know, there are good people who have to sometimes do bad things. Okay, so I'm just saying you guys do what you got to do. I'm not going to ruin any relationships by talking about it anymore. It's just going to happen.

[C]

Can I ask, I mean, are you just going to willfully, like, let's say in late March where there's like a important game and it's clearly decided because the Jazz, you know, bench all their guys, you know, whatever team, you're just.

[B]

Going to think we should strange out. I think very easily happen with other people. I don't, here's the thing. I don't want to ruin any more relationships and harm any more relationships than I apparently have harmed by talking about things that are happening. These teams have to do what they have to do. If I was in their situations, I would do it. The incentive is there. They are just, they are playing within the rules. They have to do it. And so I'm just with peace and love going forward. It's just going to happen and I'm just not going to talk about it. You can find your tanking coverage on other podcasts and your favorite platforms. Just not going to do it because, okay, second thing, their apologies to you, Vince, because you're there. I ain't talking about All Star. I ain't talking about how in the celebrity game there's an NBA player in the three point contest. I don't understand why Jared McCain is in the celebrity game three point contest. But guys, you do you. I am not going to talk about how Mac McClung said that he didn't go in the dunk contest because people said they wouldn't go in the dunk contest if he was in it. And then literally like nobody did the dunk contest. I'm not going to talk about that. I do not, I do not care about the world Team, you know, having a bunch of Americans on it who like declare that like, you know, I'm not, I, I can't be asked about and, and I can't give a level headed assessment about how this is supposed to be like nationalism and stuff when you got a bunch of Americans on the world team. I'm not, not going to talk about it, Vince. You, you are there. I will rely on your coverage. Our, our, our ESPN consumers will rely on your coverage. I, I'm not going to talk about it. I'm not going to watch it. I'm not going to talk about it. With peace and love.

[C]

Okay, I agree with that one. No complaints there.

[B]

Okay. I am not going to talk about Jonathan Kaminga. With peace and love. Slater. I Hope that he averages 20 and 10 the rest of the season with Atlanta. I hope he gets paid in this off season. Vince, did you read the story that.

[D]

It was very well done. It was very. Every single detail from Anthony Slater, from Too much food in the family room to ask your mans.

[B]

Apparently there was not enough food. Slater. That was the issue because there was being.

[D]

There you go.

[C]

Petty, Petty drama. Yeah, I mean I, the, the one thing with that is you might not, but if the Hawks are in the playoffs and he's a contributor, it might be that.

[B]

Well, yes, I mean, I'm just saying, until there's new events.

[C]

Well, I will tell you what you're not going to be talking about, at least for the foreseeable future. His, you know, gripes with an organization who has gripes with him back because he, from everything I've heard, is very happy and settling in in Atlanta. So. Fresh start.

[B]

Yeah. I will just say that when I was a beat writer in Cleveland, when I was covering calves every day from 2003 to 2010, and then I did it a lot from 2014-18, the food in the family room, when there was leftover food, they would bring it to the media at late at night so it would be cold. But it was much appreciated. And lots of uncrustables, Vince, because you know, they brought em for the kids and like those, you know, once, you know, once an uncrustable like has been like defrosted or whatever, like you like, it's, it's, it's one and done. Like it's perishable. So like they would just bring these big giant buckets of uncrustables and like they couldn't go to waste. And like the media just, I mean, you know how an uncrustable hits at like 12:45am after doing SVP. Like, you know, the pizzas they brought were a little bit rough. But listen, it was a kind thing that the Cavs would do was to dump us with the, the Food they were going to throw away. And I have to say, like, I would, you know, I would feel a certain way, Slater, if I, I, I am.

[C]

Maybe I shouldn't be. Maybe this is the naivety of me. But, you know, I wrote that story. I did. As I was going through, like, the final stages of, like, yeah, you know, this, this anecdote is gonna, like, you know, make a little bit of headlines, but I didn't know it was just gonna explode to such a degree where it was just like, Meme City yesterday.

[B]

And I know you work so hard on a feature story and you do, like, there's, like, tough quotes in there and everything like that. This happened with, I think it was a Christian Clark with the New Orleans newspaper when he wrote the story about Zion Williamson and David Griffin. And it was like David Griffin would play the piano or something for Zion, and there was all this reporting about it, and everybody just focused on, you know, the concept of Griff Payne playing the piano.

[C]

Yeah, that was yesterday.

[B]

Yeah. But I mean, by the way, like, the story is one of those stories that sort of goes deep into the. I'm not gonna talk about it, but.

[C]

Let me say this, because what you are voicing with your, you know, on your soapbox about all the things that you are never going to speak again, you're voicing what felt like a fatigue from not only you, but a lot of consumers about the Jonathan Kaminga experience.

[B]

I can't imagine you. You lived it for years, backyard right here.

[C]

And the idea that, like, why is there so much coverage about a guy that has been like a fourth man and then a seventh man and then eighth man? But as I was trying to convey in the story, and I think throughout this process, if you took two steps back, bigger picture, it was always like, this was about so much more than Jonathan Kaminga. This was about the Warriors. This was about this brand franchise in the fading days of one of the most popular players in NBA history in this dynasty. And this tug of war and the castle politics, you know, of it all and the two timeline era and. And what Jonathan Kamingo represented.

[B]

Politics. I love it.

[C]

I mean, that's how I describe it. And obviously, within that are fascinating human elements of, like, stubbornness and ego. And, you know, it really. You know, Jonathan Kaminga's experience, particularly over the last year, as he really tried to get away from the warriors this summer, really struck a chord with former players. I mean, you saw how many former players came out, and I think they saw, hey, young player really is trying to get away from situation that he feels is holding him down. And maybe he is wrong, maybe he's right. But they seem to, you know, I guess, understand that it was about so much more than, hey, why are we talking about a seventh man? Was. Was always my opinion.

[B]

Yes, it. It. I. I do understand that. I will just say you got Steve Kerr on the record on a lot of this. Yeah. You know, Steve Kerr, like, was like, okay, I'll talk about the relationship. So I feel like Steve Kerr. Am I wrong? I mean, he's always been pretty good with the media, but am I wrong, or has Steve Kerr been, like, extra honest this year?

[C]

Yeah, I mean, he's. He's one of the. The more open communicators probably in league history. He's considered one of the best analysts on tv. Right. And there's, like, TNT days. He. I mean, the guy went on the DNC and gave, like, one of the, like, closing remarks at one of the, like, the. The DNC nights. Like, he's. He's out there and he's willing to, like, express himself.

[B]

Well, it's one thing to say something about politically. It's another thing to talk about your team and say we're a fading dynasty.

[C]

Yeah, well, you know, look, it was in the story. And part of what I got him on the record was that was a lot of the issues for Jonathan Kaminga was how many times he openly talked about Jonathan Kaminga and at times talked about how he didn't think Jonathan Kaminga fit. Had the ceiling that Jonathan Kaminga had. And, yes, that was like, a lot of, like, Jonathan coming as hurt, in a sense was like, he knew his coach, who was controlling his future, did not believe in him. And he knew it because he would read about it and he would see it. I. I put his story in there in the locker room in Chicago after he's getting a dmp, and he, you know, Jonathan Kaminga does the very political, you know, I'll be there when I'm ready. That's coach's decision. And then it's like, hey, come over here. Did y'. All, you know, and he's asking me, did you guys ask him about me tonight? It's like, yeah, of course. What did he say? And it's like, he, you know, same. Steve Kerr said, hey, it could happen to anyone other than stars in this league. And he's like, you know, again, why, you know, why does he have to keep, you know, making these headline quotes about me, in a sense? So to your point. And Steve talked about It. It's just like, look, I'm honest, I'm forthcoming, and sometimes you have to tell players hard truths. But, yeah, this season he has on the last year of his deal, and I think we've talked about this on past podcasts, but there's a freedom to the way he is communicating, for sure.

[D]

Wendy, did you know what? I don't think Steve Kerr even figured out, or maybe Kaminga didn't figure out, like, the correlation, because you had a line in there, a couple lines in there, about Kerr giving him, like, inspirational text messages and stuff like that, and those messages not being returned. So him not being returned and then him talking about it in the media. I'm betting those two things are probably related in some way. Like Steve Kerr feeling rejected by a player when I'm sure if he went off on Draymond Green, Draymond Green might, you know, mf him right back. But he at least reply, Kaminga gave him nothing. He gave him dust. So that probably prompted a lot more of this, you know, sort of media psychology. Like, all of this, I think is tied. Like, you know, what. What they say with the Wire, all the pieces matter. Like, all of this stuff happened. And I think for Kerr, Kaminga's the one guy he couldn't figure out. And I think it, to a degree, it probably eats at him that he couldn't figure out the guy, or he did figure out the guy and figured out, hey, man, this me and this dude just ain't gonna work.

[C]

Also, you know, contracts and future situations matter. And. And I think the warriors this past summer announced to the world that Jonathan Kaminga, who, prior to Joe Lacob and Mike Dunleavy's front office in year two, year three, represented, you know, the guy, one of the guys they wanted to hand the keys to this past summer. They told Jonathan Kaminga to his face and told the world, now you're trade bait. And in a lot of ways, I think that freed Steve Kerr to coach him, however he wanted to coach him and put G. Santos in over him if he wanted to and say whatever he wanted. And, you know, again, I think the way he was handled above led to the toxicity below. And part of that was, yeah, I don't think, you know, if Steve knows, look, you're just trying to get this guy to the deadline to move him. I don't have to soften any part of my coaching of him.

[B]

By the way, I liked last night, I was watching the spurs warriors game, and Kerr called Draymond over in the middle of the like during free throws and like was, you know, coaching him up or whatever and then it was done. They gave each other a slap high five. You really see, really see the mid game slap high five after coaching, you know, usually, you know, you get it like when you're coming on and off the bench, like, you know, it's a greeting. I like that move. Be that all as it may, I'm not talking about Kaminga anymore. With peace and love. With peace and love.

[C]

The last thing I will say, and I've heard this from a couple people in the last couple days. They've said because of like, you know, the profile, name profile. He's gotten through a lot of this. They were saying, hey, look at the Hawks league pass ratings. You know, the first few games coming in place. There's some real curiosity if the warriors fan base, which has always been in a fervor over this, if they're going to be watching some of these like 4pm Hawks games to just argue with each other about what, you know, this 22 point game means this. No, it doesn't. So I am curious to see if, if there's a little bleed over on the storyline. And by the way, they play each other in March, that'll be.

[B]

Well, two things. First off, he hasn't played for the Hawks. Yeah, number one. Number two, how do you get Lee pass ratings? Do you have like a secret?

[C]

No, I should like the rank, you know, just ratings of the. How many people watch the game. You know, how many people.

[B]

I don't even know.

[C]

Yeah, you can get ratings on.

[B]

I don't know.

[C]

I mean, look, the Hawks should know if, hey, we got double the viewers that would normally watch Hawks Hornets tonight. I don't know.

[B]

Hey man, the Hornets are must see tv. I would watch it for the Hornets. With all due respect. With all due respect, you know. All right. By the way, speaking.

[D]

What else aren't you talking about today?

[B]

I think that's it, Wendy, let's go. But before we move on to actual. I mean that was an actual topic.

[E]

More Hoop Collective podcast after this.

[B]

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[C]

No, I know. Do you remember the Boston Lobsters before the final?

[B]

Well, media food is different. Like nobody cares about, like what food meat eats. Nobody cares about that. I just want to say to you guys, so a few years ago, I was covering a playoff series, I was covering a Clippers Suns playoff series. And it was, it was the, it was the series where Kawhi unfortunately hurt his knee. You know, twice he's had knee injuries in, in the playoffs, which, you know, as an aside to an aside, this guy is, they've waited for years for this guy to, to be, you know, to be the great player that they, that they signed in 2019. And, and he's that player. He's almost Never been better. And now is when they take their team apart. You know, it's, it's crazy.

[C]

I saw, I saw him killing a man, Thompson at crunch time yesterday, the.

[B]

Game winning basket that he hit in Houston where he made like a spin move or.

[C]

It was so robotically done, but like in such control.

[B]

It was one of the most impressive things I've seen this season. I mean, it was just like maybe.

[C]

The best wing athlete in the league.

[B]

Maybe.

[D]

Yeah. I was going to say. That's the part. I was going to say Kawhi looks like a very mechanical version of 96 to 98 Michael Jordan. And I know what I'm saying.

[B]

Wow.

[D]

I'm saying the aesthetic. I'm not saying.

[B]

Yeah, no, because of the mid range. Because of the mid range game.

[C]

Yeah.

[D]

He looks like a. Older, not old, because old Mike was Wizard of Mike and older, late prime, but still best player in the game, Michael Jordan. And you can make the argument, Wendy and I know we're going to get back to the Clippers part of this, the Clippers story you got, but you can make the argument that post, like, what, he's played 40 games this year, 40 out of the 54 games or whatever that since he's been playing basketball this season, you can make the argument Kawhis Lerner's been the best player in basketball.

[C]

Wow.

[B]

Let me think about that. Do I? Hmm. You know, there's been so, you know, like, you know, one of the complicating factors with, when you like judge the MVP race right now is like, so Jokic is back and he's back just ahead of the, the game threshold to remain the mvp and he's putting up triple doubles. But he's not the same player as he was before the injury.

[D]

No, he doesn't look like himself.

[B]

Yeah, yeah. Like he's, he's turning the ball over like crazy. Like one of the things that Jokic does, that's just when you watch him, his mastery of the control of the ball. Like even when the ball is out of his hands, he's got incredible control over it. Like when he shoots the ball and the ball lands on the rim and it like looks different. He has a way of shooting the ball so it has a better chance of rolling in on the rim. Somebody who knows him really well told me that this. People think it's water polo, but he actually learned how to manipulate the ball playing volleyball. And they pointed out to me that when, that when he, you know, when he is at the free throw line and he like Does a two handed dribble at the free throw line. That's what a volleyball player does before they like the way he dribbles a basketball is the way. Is the way a volleyball player dribbles.

[C]

The volleyball before they, before you serve.

[B]

Serve.

[C]

Yeah.

[B]

And I've, since I've been told that, I've been like, wow, that is actually 100%.

[D]

So is he deflating the ball as he's dribbling in it? Is this like deflate gate, you know, basketball style?

[B]

I don't know, like it's, there's something going on. I'm just telling you the ball looks different on his rim on come. When, when the ring, when he hits the rim, when he shoots it than everybody else does anyway. He is not as. He just hasn't been quite as sharp. And so like while he's playing, he is not looking like the mvp. The Nuggets are winning and you know, they've got other injuries and so him playing is really important, et cetera. But you know, so when you say Kawhi, let me just tell you so Kawhi has played 41 games and that is more than he played last year. The most he's ever played with The Clippers was two years ago. He played 68, by the way, and he is averaging 28 points, which is the most points he's ever averaged in his career. He's averaging, by the way, 2.1 steals a game, which is leading the league. Okay. He is shooting 49% from the field, 39% from 3 and 91% at the line. So he's very close to being on the verge of a 50, 40, 90 season, which I don't think he's ever done. So that would be on that verge.

[C]

So I also think he becomes a very fascinating trade candidate in the summer, depending on what happens with this aspiration. You know, the aftermath of that.

[B]

I don't know what's going to happen with the aspiration deal. I'm not going to pretend to know. But as people have talked about. Oh well, when Joe, when the Wolves got busted with Joe Smith, you know, ABCDEFG happened and so that'll happen again or whatever. First off, that was David Stern. And if you think, if you want to compare apples to apples, you ain't comparing how Adam Silver does justice to David Stern. I mean, we're in a, that's a whole nother side conversation. The second thing is Joe Smith's contract did get voided, which was good because it was a BS contract, but he didn't get punished. Joe Smith didn't get suspended. He was able to go sign whoever he wanted.

[C]

Yeah. I was gonna say if, if Kawhi just got voided, then he just becomes a fascinating free agent.

[B]

Yes. You know, like I don't pretend to know what Kawhi is gonna. Is they could find him guilty of. But I think it's very unlikely that he, that he personally faces discipline that.

[C]

Would keep him even like a suspension. You don't think for what?

[B]

Right.

[D]

What do you mean?

[C]

What, what his contract to. You know, honestly, as you. As you read and follow the details, I know this was been months on month soccer. He's kind of one of the villains in the whole situation, it seems.

[B]

Well, he may be a villain, but what rule is he breaking? He's not in charge of giving himself money. Allegedly. It's all been alleged.

[D]

You can ask for whatever you want if someone gives it to you. That's the problem.

[B]

Listen, and it's not. My father once told me, vince, you can only get what you ask for.

[D]

That's a very simple but good advice.

[B]

But I will say the way he actually said it was you could only get what you can ask for with a straight face. But that doesn't even apply to Kawhi because he has. Every conversation's a straight face. Like, he'd be an incredible negotiator and maybe he is.

[D]

I think him and Uncle Dennis are probably very shrewd with how they move. I will say this. When the Clippers started off really slow, and I don't know if it was ever reported or whatever, but there were a couple of contenders that was doing some real homework on Kawhi to try to figure out, hey, if the Clippers are going to blow this up. We still think Kawhi is really, really good. And the bet would have been a good bet considering what we've seen from Kawhi since then, but it's a South bet that the Clippers didn't make a move on him. The question is they're not going to extend him. Right. Like, they want to keep their books clean in 27. What happens next year? Like this year's a WASP to me, right? Like the Clippers are so far behind the sixth season.

[B]

Yeah, they punted. They punted, right?

[D]

No, but not just that. Like, they weren't going to give Harden the money. Like if, if, if Harden was willing to play, then they would have played this year out with Harden. Harden forced their hand because Harden wanted to get paid and they weren't going to pay him. And we all know what happens when James Harden doesn't get his money.

[B]

We sure do.

[D]

Shit gets bad, you know what I mean? So punning on this year wasn't necessarily their choice. I'm curious what Kawhi's appetite is after next season. Is he going to be tied to staying in la? Could that be him opening the door to be a third guy with the Lakers? Like, I am so fascinated by what this means for Kawhi. If finally his body is holding up in a way that he can manage it and be maybe a third guy.

[B]

If he finishes this season strong, why wouldn't he go and say, give me a new contract. And if he doesn't get it, why wouldn't he take action?

[C]

He'd be an obvious warriors candidate. I mean, you know, secondary, obviously they've been in the Giannis chase, but that's exact, you know, they need a big wing who can score and defend.

[B]

Well, this is the thing. As soon as they traded Harden, and I heard, basically, as soon as they traded Harden, I checked on Zubots. And the answer that I heard was I didn't hear no. And so for two days I was like, I think Zubots is going to go. And he did. And I said, if Zubots is going to go, then what about Kawhi? And so you're, you know, Vince, you're talking about teams investigating Kawhi. Trust me, they did. I believe there were trade talks with Kawhi. I don't know if anything ever got serious, but I know teams called because why wouldn't they call? Right? And I expect them to re engage over the summer. But none of that has anything to do with the fact that in the playoffs a couple years ago when Kawhi got hurt, I was finished. I finished. I was working this night in, in Phoenix. It was like three. It was like three years ago. So the, so the, it was three names ago for the Phoenix arena and you guys didn't like that. So the Clippers media was like, hey, the team just left, we should go down and get some food. And I was like, man, I don't, I don't eat teams food. Like, you know, with all due respect, like, that's just not what I do.

[C]

Journalism 101.

[B]

Well, I just, I feel weird about it anyway. Beyond ethics, media ethics feels weird. Yeah. And they're like, no, no, no, no, you, you have to come down here. And I was like, no, man, I can't. And they like begged me, you have to come down here. So I went there to the Clippers locker room. I've never seen a spread like this in my life. In terms of like a buffet. It was like going to. It was like. I don't even know, like the Detroit.

[C]

Pistons press room there. There have been less than the league right there.

[B]

Not incomparable. With all due respect. Respectfully. It was like. There have been many wedding there. I've gone to many wedding receptions for a hundred people that didn't cost what they were. You know, I can't even compare. This food was so unbelievable that they had. And they only ate, like, half of it. And so once I saw it, I started running out into the hall, like, trying to find staff members at the arena, just begging them to come in and have some of this food, because it was a crime.

[C]

Sounds like a Disney movie.

[B]

I'm telling. I'm telling you.

[C]

Wonka and the Chocolate Factory. Unbelievable.

[D]

The Clippers, he got the go. Wendy found the golden ticket.

[B]

That's a man. By the way. You know, since the first of the year, Steve Ballmer's lost $20 billion in Microsoft stock value. You think, like, he's worrying about, you know, what aspiration might happen or, like, you know, what will happen this weekend at All Star game. He's lost 20 billion. 20. Did you just hear what I just said? 20 billion. And by the way, that's. That's like 12% of his net worth.

[D]

Like I was about to say, does that make him still make him the richest owner in the league? By.

[B]

Yeah, but in the league. Yeah, but I think he fell below the. The Walmart.

[C]

The Walton family is a chunk. Correct.

[B]

So if I said to you, like, think of this sentence, hey, man, guy over there lost 20 billion, you'd be like, oh, my God, he lost $20 billion. Yeah, he lost $20 billion. You'd be like, oh, my God. Yeah, it's 12% of his Microsoft shares. I'm sorry, what? So, yeah, 12%'s rough, but he's still living.

[C]

All right.

[B]

Yeah. Anyway, On Wednesday, the Spirit spurs were in Oklahoma or in San Francisco. Slater. And so I was watching the game. We had the game on espn. I'm sitting there with our crew. Kendrick Perkins, Michael Malone, Malik Andrews. And at one point in the late third quarter, it was a 16 point game. The warriors were up by 16. And it was the second night of a back to back for the spurs, but the warriors were missing. Draymond was playing, but obviously no Stephen, no Jimmy Butler. And like, they were riding Guy Santos. Riding him. He was. He looked awesome.

[C]

You know, he's had a really good month, no question.

[B]

And Victor's about to check into the game and he's doing his thing where he's doing his visualization, you know, he's putting his shirt over his face and he's like talking to himself. And I was like they showed it on TV and I was like, I leaned over to one of our, one of our producers, Jaron Yang who's a big warriors fan and I go, I think your boys are in trouble. And they just walked him down quickly.

[C]

Very quickly. Yeah, yeah, it flipped in the arena. It was like that the game had gone from like 16 down, 16 up.

[B]

And the night before, you know, the Lakers obviously were playing, you know, second string team. All five of their starters were out. But the game started and Jake Laravio with all due respect was, was assigned to Victor to start the game. And I don't think Victor was intimidated. And so then after he scored 25 points in the first quarter in seven minutes, JJ Redick went to zone. He also tried Maxi Kleba on him too. He was not impressed. And then he went to zone and you know there's zone. The Lakers zone's actually been working a little bit. Like it's, you know the Lakers have been playing some better defense in the last few weeks and mixing in the zone has been helping. And for some reason for several possessions they had Luke Kennard in the center of the zone. I'm sure there's, I'm sure there's a strategically good reason they had that but that's who Victor ended up basically posting. And so Vince, he scored 37 points in the first half. He probably could have in against that particular team. You know, he probably could have challenged Wilt's record.

[C]

One of the warriors younger assistants had the scout for the spurs and Steve Kerr said he text them at halftime watching the game and said you got this right when he had 37. He's like, yeah, you got this man. We believe in you.

[B]

We'll see your game plan at, at 10am Have a good night.

[C]

Yep.

[D]

Well, well when? Well the crazy thing for me Wendy is everything not only just looks so like easy for Big Vic, it looks like he's toying with the league. Like it looks like he knows that he's that much better than everybody and he doesn't have to like figure it out anymore. Like he's going to have some off nights. He's going to have some nights where it doesn't work for him. But it looks like he has mastered whatever he has needed to master at this level and he's nowhere near where he's ultimately going to wind up. Like that is the part that is freaky and it is scary for me. And contrary to what you think, I am looking forward to seeing Big Slim at All Star Weekend and seeing if he wants to embarrass everybody. Like he may be the guy that can save All Star Weekend because he may shame you with by blocking 10 or 11 shots and. And sending your stuff all the way back and forcing you to play hard. Like I'm Wendy, I am legit looking forward to seeing Big slum this weekend.

[C]

Did y' all see Castles fall in the Laker game?

[B]

Yes.

[C]

So I saw that he went up for.

[B]

It was an incredible block shot.

[C]

Yeah.

[B]

And then he had a hellacious just fall to the court and he left the game and didn't come back. This was on Tuesday night?

[C]

Yes, Tuesday night. And you know what league we cover. You know what's coming up. All Star Weekend and back to back with the Warriors. I. I just presumed he was out for that warriors game.

[B]

Right.

[C]

No chance. A fall like that. A back to back. The All Star week's coming. Young guy. You know, typically these franchises are very protective of of their players at this point in the season. And the fact that he played, I was like, man, there's a serious nature to their approach. And I think you saw that in the second half. But just like that strikes me from Wembiama, from Castle, from Fox, who is just named the All Star. Like, what are they? Second. And I think they're only like three and a half behind the Thunder entering the break. Is that right? Obviously they have the tiebreaker. Right. Because of all the times they've beat him and no shade. We'll see. I mean, he's getting reevaluated out of the break. Jalen Williams last night, Hammy, you know, he's not playing tonight. Who knows? They've got Thunder.

[D]

That's a concern. Slater, don't gloss over that. That's a concern.

[C]

Oh no, he's. He was kind of grimacing on his wrist the other day, got hit when he was playing the Lakers and Ayton and to the point of like it. Obviously the Thunder roared out to that start where we were talking 73 wins. Like the way the spurs are attacking the season right now and where they're at as a team, I'm like the one seeds within reach for them.

[B]

Speaking of recovering from injuries and Oklahoma City and considering we're in an era right now where there's a lot of attention focused on people who don't play. Shout out to Nikola topic who. It's in the evening right now. The games haven't started. But he is available to play tonight for the Thunder and I think there's a good chance he's going to make his NBA debut. He has come back from testicular cancer. That happened this season.

[C]

Yeah, he played in the preseason debut and then it was discovered like he played in their opener in the preseason.

[B]

So, you know, there's some guys who are, you know, look, teams got, you know, teams are incentivized. It's not a, if a player is not playing because a team has him listed as rest. It's not a commentary on the player, you know, the team, you know the team is. Does it, you know, you know the team's going to make that call. So it's not comparison but just as a, you know, a profile and courage. How about, you know, he, he missed all last year with the torn ACL and now he is all ready to play, you know, plays in the summer for his national team and then Serbia and then he is ready to go ready to, you know, make his debut. He's going to, you know, play for the champs and gets, you know, has this terrible diagnosis, you know, gets treatment immediately for it and works his way back. He's, by the way, he's played a couple of games in the G League and you know, had, I think the one game I saw, he had 16 minutes and he had seven points and seven assists. So, yeah, so that's really a cool story right ahead of the All Star break here. So. But yeah, yeah, I mean, the, the spurs are, you know, if you're going to create the case that they're going to win multiple series, it starts with having home court. And as far as the All Star game goes, which I promised I wasn't going to talk about Vince, but one thing I will say is the All Star Game, you know, part of the reason why I think the All Star Game has lost its importance is that between 2005, if you look at the 2005, 6 season, okay, the max salary was between like 12 and 16 million. So if you were like the low max in 2005, six, you made 12. If you were the high max, you made 16. Okay, 10 years later. So 2015, 16 season, which I'm picking 20 and 10 years ago. But it was also right before the cap spike, the, the, the salaries went from like 12 million was. Or 14 million was lowest max to like 22 million was the highest max. So, you know, the, the super high, the highest paid players went from $16 million a year to $22 million a year. Year in that 10 years. Okay. And part of that was affected because we had a global financial crisis in between there. But, you know, that was the growth of the top end players. 10 years later, 25, 26. The low end of the max is 38 million and the high end of the max is 54 million. So 10 years ago, the highest paid players were making in the low 20s, and now they're making in the low 50s. Okay, so if you tell me why is there not a lot of incentive in the All Star Game, I would say, well, why was there incentive to do anything? The money is flying at the players, just flying at them. For the star players, like, what is their incentive to, you know, it's a hard sell to them to say, you know, go out there and sell the game.

[D]

Well, this is the you can't make me generation too, if you think about it.

[B]

Well, you can't make me is one thing, but then you can't make me. And you also, look, every year my paycheck is exploding, exploding, exploding. Why should I talk about incentive?

[D]

Well, I mean, also, and I tweeted this yesterday, and when you think about the league as a whole, you've got everybody. I won't say it's a negative thing. I think it's just a factor of where we are. Everybody's thinking about themselves, right? The players think about themselves. They're not thinking about growing the game. When we talk about tanking the teams. No one's thinking about the greater good of the league right now. Nobody's thinking of themselves as a business partner in this enterprise, this competitive enterprise, but a business partner in this enterprise that's still supposed to be grown and like not to get on a soapbox or anything like that. Wendy. But everybody's cashing in on nostalgia but not creating any. Like every, like the throwback jerseys and everything else. What classic things are we creating now? We're not creating anything classic. We are just cashing in on it. And the players are being, are a function of that. Like they don't. You don't have to tell them to play. Like, there is no incentive for All Star Weekend for them to go and do more things because it's going to be a financial reward on the back end because they're making so much money. No shade to them. Get all of your money. I'm one of those people. Get all of your money. Right. But there is no incentive for them beyond. There's no way you can emotionally bribe them anymore. Or an emotional.

[B]

Growing the game is code for growing your paycheck. Right? That's code. So if the paycheck is already exploding, what incentive do you have to do that? The other thing is, in 2016, that's when Kobe retired. So you have the explosion of salaries. Plus the guy who was. Mr. You know who we talk about holding people accountable in the All Star Game. You remember that one game in Orlando, I don't remember what year it was, where LeBron didn't take the last shot. And Kobe, you know, it was against Kobe's team, you know, and Kobe, like, was holding LeBron accountable. Like, what are you talking about?

[C]

Like, didn't Wade, like, break Kobe's nose?

[D]

Yeah, that game.

[B]

That was that game.

[D]

That was that game. That was. And Kobe wanted just the challenge, even if LeBron busted him in his face with the shot. I think Kobe would have respected it had that happened. But he saw LeBron chicken out. Like, you will never see that level of accountability from player to player anymore. A. Because Twitter holds players accountable in ways that we will never. Like, the fourth wall has been broken. So players are so afraid of being dunked on or being crossed over, somebody doing or being embarrassed in some way that they'll never try hard again in these games. They're so afraid. They've become such snowflakes to some degree.

[C]

And he says, snowflake snowflakes.

[D]

Yeah, I said it. And here's the other thing. If Kobe was the guy that was holding all the guys accountable because Kobe was the standard bearer. Kobe was the old guy. We got to look at today's old guys and say they're not holding up their end of the bargain.

[B]

Not when it comes to this. That's violating my rules.

[D]

That's Katie Jackson.

[B]

I didn't even make one podcast when.

[C]

It comes to this, was gonna say that you are violating your rules already.

[B]

I'm not even holding myself accountable, Brian.

[D]

I made you violate your rule. My bad. This is my fault. Blame the black guy.

[B]

That's what I was gonna do. I was gonna wait till we were off the air to do it. By the way, speaking of that, did you see TJ, Jalen Brunson, like, crossed over TJ McConnell, like, hellaciously the other day in the Garden?

[D]

Yes.

[B]

And Jalen, you know, crossed him over. TJ Fell. Jalen stepped back, took a three, and he missed it. And then TJ Put his arm around Jaylen, said, thank you, for missing that shot. I did not need that on my, on my clip resume forever. Yeah, well, maybe that'll be what Victor does. I mean, I don't know if, you know, I don't know if a player of Victor's profile, you know, a young player, French player who's yet to win anything meaningful on the stage can do that, but he can certainly show him up more.

[E]

Hoop Collective podcast after this.

[F]

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[B]

Speaking of the Knicks, Vince, we've had two Knick games in the last week on espn, abc. So doing a lot of prep work with that and watching them. One game was in Boston and they absolutely destroyed the Celtics. It was an extremely impressive performance, as good as I've seen the Knicks play defensively all year long. Then they lose at home to the Pacers in a game where they were favored by 50, 15 points. Now in the NBA, worst of the year.

[C]

Is that worst of the year?

[B]

I don't know. I don't have the. I don't have that data. But it's gotta be pretty close. You know, in the NBA, you know, a lopsided line is what, like six and a half? Seven and a half?

[D]

Yeah, yeah.

[B]

This was 15 and a half. And the Pacers won. Of course, the Pacers have had a lot of success in MSG over the last three years, so, you know, maybe they just feel home there. It's just a matchup, I guess, but it was an overtime. And then they play the second half of back to back in Philly. Now, Philly, no mb, they're coming off the west coast, et cetera, et cetera. But they have one of the best offensive games I've seen from them all year. And after the game is decided, Jose Alvarado gets deployed and knocks down eight three pointers off the bench and has.

[C]

Five steals in like 19 minutes or something.

[B]

I don't know. It was something like that.

[C]

I think it was 19 minutes, 28 points, 5 steals.

[B]

The Philly fans all left. And the Knicks fans were all there. And it turned into Madison Square Garden south again as they were celebrating Alvarado. Alvarado's first game, he scored like 12 points in like 15 minutes. Was unbelievable. Comes home to the Garden, was awful. Goes to Philly, is unbelievable. He's already a Knick. He's. He's. He's fit, right? He's practically Clyde Frazier. So much of a Nick right now with that. They say to me, who's going to win? Who's going to win these? And I go, I don't know. And people are like, what do you mean you don't know? This is your job. What do you want me to say? Look at this team. I've watched them. In the course of five days, I've watched them twice dominate teams that I think they could face in the playoffs. One on one end of the court, one on the other, get obliterated, you know, lose to the. One of the worst teams in the league. And by the way, the game before, the Celtics game, they played in Detroit and lost by 40. What am I supposed to do with this, Vince?

[D]

Their highs are so high and their lows are so low. Like, offensively, because you got so many guys that can shoot from three, because you have so, you know, like the wing depth, especially now that, you know, adding Jeremy Sochan, I'm looking forward to seeing what color he's gonna wear his hair. But the highs are just so high, like they can. Bombs away, you know, from you, from three. And if Carl Towns is engaged and not in foul trouble, right, and not in his own head, then they have an element of talent that nobody in the east can match. But the problem is the second something goes wrong, and this is the problem. To me, the great indicator of being in the playoffs is how well will you play when things are not going your way. Can you manufacture a win when something goes wrong? The problem with the Knicks is when everything's going right, they can overwhelm you. But when one thing goes wrong, they don't know how to handle the slightest bit of adversity. Like, even Jalen Brunson the other night against Indiana just went full. I'm taking every shot, like, in the last five minutes or so. And he hasn't done that in a long time because normally he comes up big late, so you don't pay much attention to it. But when he's off, it's very noticeable. When Carl Towns is on, it's very noticeable. When he's off committing offensive fouls, jumping over people's back, playing the bongos or whatever it is, you see it all. The question is, you don't know what to believe. Because their highs are so high and.

[C]

Their lows are so low, he's calling them front runners. Brian.

[D]

Nick, fans, I said nothing of the sort. I'm not running out of runners.

[B]

Can a team like that win three playoff series and win the East?

[D]

A team like that can win two playoff series, a third playoff series, unless you're playing to me against a team that shouldn't be there, they're going to capitalize on those in the East.

[C]

Is very possible that you're playing against somebody that's not your typical just Goliath across the world.

[D]

Yeah, but, I mean, but think about it like this. Now I challenge you a little bit.

[C]

He loves the east this year. All right.

[D]

No, no, I don't. No, I don't. I don't. Trust me. I don't. If Philly gets to the conference finals and they're playing the Knicks, they will have enough sweat equity in the playoffs for you to say they. They're legit. If Cleveland gets there, you will say the same thing. If Boston gets there with Tatum, you know, you're going to say that same thing for Detroit. Whoever gets there is going to earn their way there, and they're going to be confident by the time they get there. So I don't think it's a matter of, oh, man, this is a weak east. Unless there's some crazy upset and Atlanta gets there or Orlando gets there. I think you got some quality teams that just have not put it together consistently, including the damn New York Knicks. You call them front runners. I just, I just.

[C]

You just. You just have the exact definition of front runner.

[D]

And then I don't, don't, don't do that.

[B]

You make a great point, Vince, about how the difference between winning two playoff series and three or four, like, you'd say, oh, if you win two, you can win three. The level of competition that you step up to, Like, I'll never forget the first time I ever covered an Eastern Conference finals game. I was a youngin. It's like my second year I was in Detroit. It was Detroit against Miami, I think.

[D]

Ooh.

[B]

And I felt I covered that game. I was like, wow, this is another level. And I remember Durant talking about this. You remember, of course, in the COVID year where Durant had the shot where his toe was on the line, otherwise the Nets would have won the game and the Bucks end up winning in overtime and then they win the title. And people always used to say, if Durant's toe is a centimeter 2 centimeters shorter, you know, people said he, I guess Durant sometimes wore a size shoe bigger than he had needed. Cause he liked the way it felt. You know, if he wore like one size smaller shoe, like. And Durant, like, called him out on that, he was like, because you're talking about winning the second round. He goes, you know how much, you know, Durant's a guy who had won championships, like, you know, had been to like three finals. Like, he's like, he knows. Like, he's like, do you know how what the difference is between winning seven playoff games and winning 16 is. Cause that's what they'd won. They'd won seven. He's like, he's like, you know, because. Because Kyrie had gotten hurt, you know, and Harden had, like.

[D]

And Harden was hurt. Harden had a hamstring.

[B]

Groiner. Hamstring. Yeah. And he's like, he's like, you're crazy. He's like, we weren't winning that championship. He's like, you have any idea the difference between winning a second round series and winning a conference final series, much less winning a finals game? And like, that is. Damn right. And so that's important when you look at these teams. And like, when you look at the spurs too. Like, the Spurs, I think, can beat anybody. Can they, With a team this inexperienced? And, you know, my concern with Victor, like last night, I'm watching that game, Slater, and while the warriors are behind, I'm watching, you know, there's three, four, five possessions in a row where Victor never goes inside the three point line on offense. And I know he can hit the three. In fact, he's been shooting the three better and better as the season goes along. But I also know that if he does that at the wrong time, he's bailing the other team out. Which is what Durant was saying the other day when the Rockets beat him. He's like, you're bailing out. And so, like, I believe that Victor will. I could be proven wrong because he's that type of guy, but I believe that Victor will end up learning the lesson that you can't go down in the playoffs with him shooting threes. If they're going to go down, it's with him.

[C]

Just might take him an elimination to learn that. Not. He might. I don't know. We'll see, who knows?

[B]

I agree.

[D]

That's why I look at Detroit and I'm like, can a team that's never won a playoff series go from being eliminated in the first round to going all the way to the NBA Finals? That's asking a lot.

[B]

That's your experience talking. And I know that it's frustrating to. I'm sure players and fans who hear that, they're like, hell yeah, we're the best team. You know, Detroit's like, we, we've been the best team since October, you know, and then they see them with the third or you know, best odds or whatever.

[C]

And it's just like somebody gotta come out the east, though.

[B]

Well, that's true. And I mean, maybe this is a year where, where you see an inexperienced team do it because all of the teams have flaws. But you know, when I, I, I, I was talking to an Eastern Conference head coach the other day and he said to me, he goes, new York's the best team. And I was like, you know, oh, well, but, but, but, but he's like, nope, New York's the best team. And I was talking to like an executive in the Eastern Conference, high ranking executive who's been doing it for a long time. And he goes, yeah, New York's the best team.

[D]

They can be the best team. Will they play the best when it counts?

[B]

Right. Well, that's the thing. They didn't say New York was winning the East. It said New York's the best team. Two different things.

[C]

Y' all would be much more the experts than me on this, but every time I flip on a Knicks Pistons game, I know who the best team on the floor looks like in that matchup.

[B]

Vince, remind me. So I was working with J.B. bickerstaff a little bit last year when he was, after they got eliminated. He came in and did some, some studio days with get up and first take and yep, I looked to see what he said, but did he say we're like, he said something like we're not going to lose to the Knicks again or something like that?

[D]

No, I think, I don't know if he said that on air. I think Steve said that he said that to him. I can't remember. But I would not be surprised if those words came out of J.B. bickerstaff's mouth. Because if you look at it, he was. If Isaiah Stewart plays in that series, Carl Towns doesn't do what Carl Towns does.

[B]

That's true. Yeah. That's the first thing you know, this being a Detroit guy, that's what the Pistons first thing they say is, well, we didn't have beef.

[D]

If he's healthy this season, that changes the math, especially in a Pistons Knicks matchup. Because Carl Towns is supposed to be the one guy that is the matchup problem for everybody he goes against. And then if you got Jalen Brunson, he was put on lockdown by Asar Thompson in Detroit. Like I talk myself out of saying Detroit and then I give you all the reasons why Detroit makes sense.

[B]

I know. Yeah, it was funny. Like we were on air last night and during, during, during, on Air. I got into a back and forth with Perk about the spurs, about, like. Cause I was bringing up experience. And he was like, you know, he was trying to basically tell me, you know, that's that this team's so good they can win. And then we got off the air and Malone was like, I like the Spurs a lot. But you know, you're right. A lot of times teams who don't have experience, it shows up, you know, experience. You know, two things show up at the end of the game. And I don't care if you're playing high school basketball, if you're playing low major division one, you're playing NBA Finals. Two things show up at the end of the game. Size and experience. I'm not saying that that always determines the outcome. Size and experience always show up. And so look out when Victor gets experience is what I'm saying. But size and experience show up. And so. I don't know. We'll see. The Knicks have got a lot of reps with this unit. They got some scars, but this unit has put some years in together now.

[D]

They better win this year. They're the 1 team in east that better win.

[B]

Yeah, I mean, that's one thing. Detroit's stress level is completely different than New York stress level. You know, Detroit gets down 20 in a series and New York is down 20 in a series. Totally different feel, you know, or, you know, they. When they face elimination game. So. But the one thing I'll say before we go, every year I see the same mistake get made. And it's a lot of times made by people who have been around the game for a long time. And that mistake is thinking that the regular season has anything to do with the playoffs.

[D]

Different sport. Playoffs and regular season. Different sport.

[B]

Yeah. Jackson gave the current draftkings odds for the Eastern conference. Cavs are plus 300. They're the favorites. Knicks are plus 330. That's essentially the same. Pistons plus 350, Celtics plus 380. So you're basically getting three, three and a half to one on all of them. And the 76ers as of last night were plus 1100. So 76ers were 11 to one. And I was trying to talk myself into saying that that's a undervalued.

[D]

Don't do it. Don't you do it.

[B]

And then I saw what happened.

[D]

Don't you do it, Wendy. Don't you do it.

[B]

Which indeed got hurt. And then it was never a game. So I'm glad I didn't Say that. So maybe they're properly valued. So. All right, Slater. Enjoy your All Star Weekend, Vince. I'm looking forward to your robust coverage of the robust.

[D]

Robust coverage. Yeah, we'll be fine.

[B]

You were built for All Star Weekend. I don't. Slater, I don't know how we made. You know, Vince's low man in the totem pole, so we made him go. I don't know how you got out of it, Slater. I think you should be there. I'm going to call a meeting of management.

[C]

There are also zero warriors participating in All Star Weekend, so that's.

[B]

Be that as it may, I think. You know, I know.

[D]

All due respect, he's going to say that for, like, the eighth time today.

[B]

With all due respect, respectfully, that was like Jordan Clarkson. Did you see that? The other day on X, Somebody. Somebody said something about him, and then he told him to do something to part of his anatomy, and they followed up with another post. Respectfully. I loved it. Respectfully. You know, even though you guys got, like, decades in, like, you know, I don't know how you didn't get that. Assignments later. I'm gonna have to speak to somebody about that. We're gonna adjust that. We're gonna make you cover the draft skills challenge. Yeah, the skills challenge remote cover the plan.

[C]

Don't worry.

[B]

Yeah, yeah, the plan. All right. Thank you very much to our producers, Tucker, Mark, Devon and Jackson. Thank you to Vinnie, Vince, Goodwill, and Anthony Slater. Thank you for watching. Listen, hip collective, we'll talk to you next week.

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