2023 Tony Predictions (Part 1) w/ The Theater Lovers

Summary

Broadway Breakdown – 2023 Tony Predictions (Part 1)

Host: Matt Koplik

Guests: Will and Rachel Anderson (“The Theater Lovers”)

Air Date: March 30, 2023

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Episode Overview

In this lively, expletive-laden, and deeply nerdy episode, host Matt Koplik—joined by theater meme royalty The Theater Lovers (Will and Rachel Anderson)—dives headfirst into Tony Award prediction mayhem. Together, they break down the Broadway season’s major contenders, dissect political undercurrents, debate specific performances, and (of course) offer the kind of in-depth, high-energy discussion that only true theater obsessives can provide. Listeners get insight into the sometimes-opaque Tony nominating process, a candid assessment of likely nominees in key categories, and memorable banter filled with inside jokes, hot takes, and plenty of laughs.

Note: Timestamps are formatted as [MM:SS], but due to the meandering nature of the episode, segments blend into one another—major sections and their broad timing are indicated for ease of navigation.

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Major Discussion Points & Key Insights

1. The Tony Awards: Art, Politics, and Process

[04:07]–[06:52]

• Predictions as Tradition:
  Both Matt and his guests see Tony predictions as “theater March Madness”—a fun, semi-serious annual ritual.

  • “It's one of the great traditions of art competition.” – Will [02:14]

• How Nominations Happen:
  Matt demystifies the nominating process:

  • No secret cabal, but rather 40 nominators voting independently, with group discussions only about eligibility or classification.
  • Occasional “emergency meetings” occur for unusual cases (e.g., “Angels in America” score eligibility in 2018).

• Politics vs. Taste:
  The group highlights that while personal taste matters, strategic thinking and industry politics are very real.

  • “You have to think about what it is that really impacted you that you liked a lot and then be a little more strategic...was it well received? Politics? Absolutely.” – Matt [01:54]/[04:05]

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2. Design Categories: Sound, Scenic, Lighting, Costumes

Key Segment: [07:07]–[13:24]

• Sound Design of a Play:

  • Major locks for nomination: “Life of Pi” and “A Christmas Carol”.
  • “Life of Pi” praised for its cinematic, immersive score, and overall technical prowess—dubbed a likely nominee across categories: scenic, lighting, sound, direction, and potentially score.
    • "Life of Pi would be my best guess just based on what I know to be opening and what we've seen so far." – Will [08:26]
  • Discussion on the technical achievements and inventive theater design, such as puppetry and integrated soundscapes.

• Costume, Scenic, Lighting:

  • “Life of Pi” and “A Christmas Carol” expected to show up across the board.
  • Puppet work in “Life of Pi” could angle toward a special Tony.

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3. Best Score: Musicals and Plays in the Mix

Key Segment: [13:24]–[22:11]

• Primary Contenders:

  • Locks: “Kimberly Akimbo,” “Some Like It Hot,” “Shucked.”
  • “Life of Pi” (as a play with a significant score) could sneak in.
  • KPOP a dark horse, especially with the timely album drop—“KPOP all the way. That would be such a beautiful thing for them to get nominated.” – Rachel [19:08]

• Wildcard Shows:

  • “Bad Cinderella,” “KPOP,” and “Almost Famous” debated for final slots.
  • “KPOP”’s genre authenticity and vocal arrangements (“tight like a tiger” [21:25]) cited as assets.

• Quote:
  “Listening to [the ‘KPOP’ score] separately, it's very impressive how authentic it does sound of the genre.” – Matt [20:46]

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4. Leading Actress in a Musical: The Fiesty Five (or Six)

Key Segment: [25:06]–[42:19]

• Super-Locks:

  • Victoria Clark (“Kimberly Akimbo”)
  • Annaleigh Ashford (“Sweeney Todd”)
  • Micaela Diamond (“Parade”)

• On the Bubble:

  • Sara Bareilles (“Into the Woods”)—star power may outweigh show’s closure.
  • Phillipa Soo (“Camelot”)—performance well received, but mixed buzz about show.

• Newcomers with Buzz:

  • Anna Uzele (“New York, New York”) discussed as a possible surprise, depending on how the show shapes up.

• Why Some Don’t Make It:

  • “Some Like It Hot”’s Adrianna Hicks: role and performance seen as underwritten and less memorable than supporting players.

• Memorable Quote:
  “My pick to win is Victoria Clark...by a lot.” – Rachel [38:06]

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5. Choreography: A Case of Most vs. Best

Key Segment: [46:31]–[53:58]

• Front-Runners:

  • If eligible, “Dancin’” is a lock—otherwise, Susan Stroman (“New York, New York”) and Casey Nicholaw (“Some Like It Hot”).
  • “Life of Pi” praised for intricate movement and puppetry—likely a nominee.

• Observations:

  • The Tonys often reward “most choreography,” but unique movement (like coordinated puppetry) can break through.
  • Noted that modern, seamless integration of dance and movement (“not just Newsies-level flips”) is gaining recognition.

• Quote:
  “If it is eligible [‘Dancin’], that's my front runner because it is extremely well done. As the title says, that's what it's all about.” – Rachel [47:10]

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6. Leading Actor in a Musical: A Stacked, Male-Light Category

Key Segment: [56:12]–[65:52]

• Predicted Nominees:

  • Ben Platt (“Parade”)
  • Josh Groban (“Sweeney Todd”)
  • Jay Harrison Ghee (“Some Like It Hot”)
  • Christian Borle (“Some Like It Hot”)—but possibly vulnerable
  • Andrew Burnap (“Camelot”)
  • Colton Ryan (“New York, New York”) seen as a likely spoiler based on strong role and performance

• Observations:

  • Not many musicals have a classic leading man this season.
  • Christian Borle and other “vulnerable” picks could be nudged out by more dynamic performances.

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7. Featured Actor in a Musical: Deepest Bench of the Season

Key Segment: [69:20]–[78:45]

• Prime Suspects:

  • Jordan Donica (“Camelot”)
  • Justin Cooley (“Kimberly Akimbo”)
  • Gaten Matarazzo (“Sweeney Todd”)
  • Kevin Del Aguila (“Some Like It Hot”)
  • Alex Joseph Grayson (“Parade”)
  • Stark Sands (“& Juliet”)
  • Alex Newell (“Shucked”), depending on which category they choose

• Category Could Expand:
  Given category strength, could go to six nominees.

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8. Featured Actress in a Musical: Bonnie Milligan and the Comedic Standouts

Key Segment: [78:45]–[83:59]

• Bonnie Milligan (“Kimberly Akimbo”) seen as the favorite.

  • “If you're going up against Bonnie Milligan, I say good luck.” – Rachel [78:45]

• Notable Contenders:

  • Ali Mauzey (“Kimberly Akimbo”)
  • Natasha Yvette Williams (“Some Like It Hot”)
  • Betsy Wolfe & Melanie La Barrie (“& Juliet”)
  • Ruthie Ann Miles (“Sweeney Todd”)
  • Carolee Carmello (“Bad Cinderella”)—possible but less likely

• General Vibe:

  • Strength in comedic performances this season; deadpan delivery highly prized.
  • “She plays her very deadpan and low key, which I think is brilliant... it actually makes the comedy better.” – Matt [79:58]

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9. Play Categories: Less Seen, Still Hotly Debated

Key Segment: [85:07]–[91:18]

• Leading Actor in a Play:

  • Wendell Pierce (“Death of a Salesman”)—likely winner
  • Jefferson Mays (“A Christmas Carol”)
  • Sean Hayes (“Good Night, Oscar”)—big out-of-town buzz
  • Corey Hawkins (“Topdog/Underdog”)
  • Stephen McKinley Henderson (“Between Riverside and Crazy”)

• Leading Actress in a Play:

  • Audra McDonald
  • Jessica Chastain (“A Doll’s House”)
  • Jodie Comer
  • Laura Linney
  • Some debate over the fifth spot, depending on eligibility and strength of other productions.

• Featured Actress in a Play:

  • Section includes speculation on up-and-comers from “The Thanksgiving Play,” “Peter Pan Goes Wrong,” and “Ain’t No Mo.”

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10. Productions, Direction, and Nominations “Rules”

Key Segment: [97:00]–[110:45]

• Revival of a Musical Field:

  • Major players: “Camelot,” “Sweeney Todd,” “Parade,” “Into the Woods”

• Direction of a Musical:

  • Strongest contenders: Jessica Stone (“Kimberly Akimbo”), Michael Arden (“Parade”), Susan Stroman (“New York, New York”), Thomas Kail (“Sweeney Todd”), and Bart Sher (“Camelot”) or Casey Nicholaw (“Some Like It Hot”).
  • Noted history: It's rare for a Best Musical winner not to be nominated for Best Book; this “rule” used to gauge shows’ chances.

• Favorite Insight:

  • “There has never been a Best Musical winner that didn't get nominated for book if they were eligible.” – Matt [109:07]
  • Useful metric for future Tony predictions.

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Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments

• Matt’s role as podcast “opinion leader:”

  • “I am your host, Matt Koplik, the least famous and most opinionated of all the Broadway podcast hosts.” [01:18]

• On authentic vocal arrangements:

  • "If we're talking, like, vocal arrangements that are tight like a tiger, it is those two (Kimberly Akimbo and KPOP)." – Matt [21:25]

• On leading actress predictions:

  • “My pick to win is Victoria Clark… by a lot.” – Rachel [38:06]

• Meta-meme moments:

  • Matt to The Theater Lovers: “I love all the things you post. I think everything you post is directly for me. Thank you so much.” [67:30]

• On Tony nomination politics:

  • “One thing about running a meme account is, like, we’re very used to [pushback from fandom].” – Rachel [104:04]

• Feminism running gag:

  • Rachel (joking): “As a new feminist, I just found out about this thing called feminism from you. Thank you so much.” [59:15]

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Category Rundowns (Timestamps Approximate)

| Segment | Categories/Titles Discussed | Notes | |-----------------------|-------------------------------------------------------------|-------------------------------| | [07:07]–[13:24] | Sound/Scenic/Lighting/Costume (Plays) | “Life of Pi,” “Christmas Carol” | | [13:24]–[22:11] | Best Score | “Kimberly Akimbo,” “Some Like It Hot,” “Shucked,” “Life of Pi,” “KPOP,” “Bad Cinderella,” “Almost Famous”| | [25:06]–[42:19] | Leading Actress in a Musical | Clark, Ashford, Diamond, Bareilles, Soo, Uzele (NY, NY) | | [46:31]–[53:58] | Choreography | “New York, New York,” “Some Like It Hot,” “Life of Pi” | | [56:12]–[65:52] | Leading Actor in a Musical | Platt, Groban, Ghee, Borle, Burnap, Ryan | | [69:20]–[78:45] | Featured Actor in a Musical | Donica, Cooley, Matarazzo, Del Aguila, Grayson, Sands, Newell | | [78:45]–[83:59] | Featured Actress in a Musical | Milligan, Mauzey, Williams, Wolfe, La Barrie, Miles, Carmello | | [85:07]–[91:18] | Leading Actor/Actress in a Play | Pierce, Mays, Hayes, Hawkins, Henderson, Chastain, McDonald, Linney, Comer | | [97:00]–[110:45] | Direction, Book, Revival, Overall Nominations “Rules” | “Kimberly Akimbo,” “Parade,” “New York, New York,” “Sweeney Todd,” “Camelot,” “& Juliet,” “Into the Woods”|

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In Closing

The episode is a joyful, sometimes chaotic survey of the 2022–2023 Broadway season, filled with candid, deeply informed analysis, and plenty of personality. The group balances sharp industry insight with comedic asides, running gags (especially around “new feminist” Rachel), and a shared love of the art form.

For Broadway fans and Tony-watchers, this is a goldmine of perspective, opinion, and essential handicapping for awards season.

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The Theater Lovers on Socials

• Instagram & TikTok: @the_theater_lovers
• Twitter: @theater_lovers

Matt Koplik

• Instagram: @mattkoplik

Closing sentiment:

“Have a great rest of your week, everybody. Bye.” – Matt [112:38]

Transcript

[A]

Think of the prestige. Think of the respect. No, no, no. Think of the Tony.

[B]

Tony. Tony, Tony, Tony, Tony. What's the matter?

[A]

Is he all right? He's having a stroke. What?

[B]

Of genius.

[A]

Hello all theater lovers, both out and proud and on the DL. And welcome back to Broadway Breakdown, a podcast discussing the history und legacy of American theater's most exclusive address. Broadway. Usually we'd be doing the miniseries the Big Move, covering shows that had such success off Broadway, they just had to move to the Great White Way. Try some. Look over there. But I said, fuck it. Let's go on pause and let's start switching things up, because it is just about Tony time. It is time to make some Tony predictions. I am your host, Matt Koblick, the least famous and most opinionated of all the Broadway podcast hosts. And with me today is. Is a power couple. One might say they have a monopoly on the theater scene, certainly the theater meme scene. I am, of course, talking about two icons. They are heterosexual, unfortunately, but we don't hold it against them. Will and Rachel Anderson, otherwise known as the theater lovers. Hello, Andersons. Hello.

[B]

Yeah, we. We don't blame you for holding it against us.

[A]

It's.

[B]

It's tragic, but it's true. What are you going to do?

[C]

It's nice to be held.

[B]

Thank you for having us. We're so excited to be here.

[A]

So excited to have you guys. For anyone who's wondering if they are truly the enemy, just know Rachel is wearing a Jinx Monsoon in Chicago T shirt and Will is wearing a Co Op T shirt. So they are truly allies. They are doing the damn thing, folks. I am so happy. Ally. Ally. We are allies. Sorry. So we are doing Tony predictions. The season is upon us. So many shows have opened. So many shows are in previews. There's some things you guys have seen that I have not. Maybe some things I've seen that you have not. I don't know. I only know your life a little bit. But this is sort of the fun time, right? Like before things get serious, before, like, the real heavy hitting begins, we can start to, like, pontificate. There's no real science, but there's a little bit of science. So it's. It's a fun time. Do you guys like to do Tony predictions in your spare time?

[B]

Of course. Yeah. Yeah. It's one of the great traditions of art competition.

[C]

I guess it's March Madness, but in May and June, we have two months of it.

[B]

Yeah. Really exciting stuff.

[A]

Do you also follow the sports? No, no.

[B]

I mean, it's just we dab.

[C]

I. I enjoyed the Washington Senators and damn Yankees.

[A]

And.

[C]

I'm sure that there. Oh, I was following chess for a minute when. Well, it was Adam Pascal and Josh Groban playing against each other. That was a really. A weird game. There was so much more singing than I expected.

[A]

That is Take me out Erasure will and you know it.

[C]

Oh, I couldn't.

[B]

Oh, see, but he didn't see that and I did. So that's. That's my bad for not jumping in on that one.

[A]

Rachel's a true ally. She. I heard that there's dong on Broadway and like me, she goes, where? Who, how many tickets?

[B]

And I say, leave my husband at home.

[C]

All I know is there was. There were some bats swinging around the stage. That's as much as I know.

[B]

Yeah, that's what I told him.

[A]

Yep, yep, yep. A big. A big old bat. To quote full Monty. So you know what? Let's just, let's just dive right into it. Let's go with the most controversial, most heated category of the Tony ceremony, which of course is sound design of a play. Now people really want to know who's going to make it in sound design of a play. No. So the thing about Tony predictions is like, I feel like you kind of have to have your mind of two ways. You have to think about what it is that really impacted you that you liked a lot and then be a little more strategic of like, well, who's working on it? Is it still open? Is, you know, is the creative team, people that like the community likes it? Was it well received?

[B]

Politics?

[A]

Absolutely. I feel like people, I say people. What I mean are message board posters and, and young folks on the social media. I mean, I mentioned this once when K Pop and Ain't no Mo both announced closing like within 12 hours of each other and everyone was like, thanks, Broadway for doing this. I was like, there's no Mr. Broadway. There's no like one man in an.

[B]

Office who made this a boogeyman. I mean, it would make it a lot. It's too.

[C]

It's broad and way.

[B]

It makes it a lot easier to pin it on one person or one entity. But it's so many different things happening simultaneously. And I think in like living here for so long and now certainly since the shutdown and things reopening, that's like clearer than ever of like how many people it takes to really make something happen or not or to close something as well.

[A]

Yeah, I mean, it's a very financially risky business and, you know, you Kind of put up a Broadway show assuming you're going to lose all the money. And happens more often than not. But it's the same thing is true of nominations. I feel like everyone thinks nominators come together and they go, okay, how can we make this as white and male centric as possible? And that's, to be fair, that is how the Oscars work. It is three men in a room going, how can we make this not exclusive, but the Tony.

[C]

I've seen them.

[A]

Yeah, I've seen them do it. I've seen the tapes. But I will say the Tony Awards and I have known people who were nominators in the past. I know a few of the nominators now. I know a few Tony voters. The nominators don't come together. And like, let's decide on each category. Everybody votes separately. They decide on their top five. And that's sort of how it goes. The conversations happen about eligibility, and they'll happen if there's, like, confusion on a show. So I have, yeah, I have someone who was a Tony nominator twice, 30 years apart, and she was saying, like, I think it was 2018, they had to, like, have a meeting right before everyone put in their nomination ballots, just because, like, there were a few members who were very confused about, I think, was the eligibility of the Angels in America score, if that counted as an original score, because they had announced that it was. But some nominators were still, like, debating if it could be. So they had to, like, sit together and discuss that and, like, what other scores were eligible that year. And then everyone cast their votes and then Angels got a score nomination. But, yeah, I just want. I want our listeners to know that as Rachel, Will, and I make these predictions, we are trying to go off of our own tastes as well as what we think 40 strangers might think together. We're not trying to think of conspiracy theories with tinfoil hats. We're truly just.

[B]

No.

[A]

And I will say, because I am a freak, I did do a little of historical research to see, like, how certain winners have gone in the past, certain nominations have gone in the past. So, sure, Patty, jump into it. You got pick. Pick the first category, y'. All. You're my guests. What do you want?

[C]

Well, you mentioned sound design of a play.

[A]

We.

[C]

We have not seen it in New York yet, but we did see the out of town tryout of Life of PI.

[A]

And similar.

[C]

To your statement on scores for a play, this show was also scored throughout and extremely cinematic. And just the way that you were transported with audio cues and the shape of everything in that room.

[B]

I believe they were even selling. Pardon me? They were even selling the quote unquote. I don't know if you'd call it a soundtrack or a cast album or what you would call it in this case, but I believe they were selling like physical CDs of it at some merch stand. Yeah, the score. Thank you. It's like that next level, it's that integral to the production. So I mean having. We've certainly seen more like. Full disclosure, we've seen more musicals this season than we've seen plays. And certainly some of the plays haven't even opened yet. But there's like, what did we count up to? Like 16 or 18 different.

[C]

18 new plays this season.

[B]

Yeah, it's nuts. So to be able to even make a real prediction feels insane. But Life of PI would be my best guess just based on what I know to be opening and what we've seen so far.

[A]

Yeah, I mean, I. I know we joked, but yeah. Sound design of a play. I think the two locks are Life of High, which I will. So this comes out this coming Thursday record. We are recording this on Tuesday, March 28th. I will be seeing Shucks tomorrow. I am seeing Fat Hams tonight. I'm seeing Sweeney Todd Thursday and Life of Pie Sunday. So. Yeah. But I think for you. Oh, big week last week. Last week we saw Parade, we saw Peter Pan Goes Wrong and we saw Bad Cindy. So it's been. It's been a lot. Been a lot.

[B]

But yeah, this is the time.

[A]

This is. This is the time. I think Life of PI and Christmas Carol are definite locks for sound design of a play.

[B]

Sure. I totally forgot about Christmas Carol. And you're so right. Yeah, that was wild.

[A]

Yeah. Christmas Carol will be interesting to me because it is a closed play. And as you mentioned, there are so many this season and like if ever there. I think in terms of the play categories, I have not seen everything yet, but I know the like leading actor in a play is definitely the acting category of the play field that is the most packed and like, I definitely think Jefferson Mays will get in there. He's a former winner and multi nominee. But at the same time it's like that show did close in January and there are so many options. But like.

[B]

And it was a Christmas Carol.

[A]

Yeah, and it was a Christmas Carol. And while it was a one man show, it wasn't like just him. You know, there was so. Well, there were so many design elements and staging elements that like I Don't know, because I know a lot of.

[B]

People wasn't up there alone.

[A]

Yeah, there was a body double. Everyone call it Phantom of the Opera because there was a double on that stage. It actually, that was. I will say that was one of my favorite moments of the play was when the double. You didn't. We did not know it was a double, but what we thought was Jefferson Mays getting out of bed, going out to his door to investigate what's happening in the living room. In silhouette, the lights go out and Jefferson Maze pops out from the proscenium at the front of the stage. Realize it's been a double the entire time. It was Agatha all along.

[B]

It's just. It's just good theater.

[A]

It's real. That's the stuff in Christmas Carol where I was like, this is what I like it. When they tried to be a little more adventurous, a little more experimental, like when they would do a Sufi on Steven song, I was like, I don't think I need this. Michael Arden. Oh, did that do it for you, Will?

[C]

No, I really enjoyed it because I, I feel it was a moment where Scrooge, who is so set in his ways, you get a different way of him thinking about the world. So it, it comes in as a new piece of sound.

[A]

Plus, I, I.

[C]

It was just so unexpected, and I'm glad the Jefferson Mays got to have a break from speaking for a minute. But I, I was so surprised and moved by. Just completely caught me off guard. And I was, I had the moment, of course, of like, is it Sufjan Stevens? But yeah, I, I was digging it.

[B]

Maybe if they can see it being divisive, though.

[A]

No, I mean, I liked Christmas Carol. There are parts of it that I loved, and I think it will absolutely get design nominations. It's another thing where, like, it should. Yeah. And there's nothing where it's like, you know, two Tonys ago, we had a Christmas Carol that swept all the design categories.

[C]

That's true.

[A]

It might feel deja vu to some nominators and voters, but at the same time, it's like, sure, I don't know.

[B]

It's different enough.

[A]

Yeah, different enough. And also, like, what can you do? We don't have that many shows plays the season that are, like, overly designed. So, like, I feel with Life of Pie and Christmas Carol, we definitely have sound design. We have scenic design, lighting design, possibly costume design. Would. Is there enough would. Costuming in Life of PI that would go in there, or do you think that is more like maybe one of the weaker categories for.

[C]

Depends on how they categorize the animals.

[A]

Because that is.

[C]

That is a design element.

[B]

But I wouldn't consider a puppet a costume, though.

[C]

Yeah, but. But because it is so much of the way that the cast interacts.

[A]

Sure.

[C]

With each other.

[B]

Yeah.

[C]

It feels like a separate thing.

[B]

Yeah.

[C]

I think I could see it getting a. Like a special Tony for.

[A]

Yeah.

[C]

For achievement in puppetry.

[B]

Yeah. The puppetry's nuts. But yeah, I think on a technical level, Life of PI, considering that it's still open by the time the awards roll out, which it for all purposes will be. Yeah, I think it's kind of a lock in any sort of technical category, at least from what I've seen and what I know.

[A]

Yeah, I. I would say that pie from what I've seen so far and I look forward to seeing it in a few days. But I do think that is a scene. Scenic design, lighting design, sound design, direction, and probably score. I think that it'll get a. A score nomination actually. On that note, let's go. This is what I love about my podcast. I look in the mirror every day and I go, oh, I love my podcast. But I love that there's no structure. So I just want to go right into it. Score. Let's do a big one right here. Best score. Now, usually it's five. If there are enough votes between the last two, there can be six. In the world of how we had six best musical nominees last year, I still call shenanigans on that, but whatever. No one asked me. There's. I'm just saying there's a clear Becky in that six and none of us are willing to say it out loud this year. Let's just say it's going to be five best score nominees. Who do we have for our five nominees?

[C]

I think Kimberly Akimbo.

[B]

Yeah. Some Like It Hot, New York, New York.

[A]

Will that be eligible, do you think?

[B]

Is it?

[C]

That's what I'm not sure about. About score. Because so much of the music there is. There are new lyrics, but there is a lot of pre existing music. I'm trying to think if there's an example where a show has.

[B]

Have you seen it? Sorry for. Interesting.

[A]

So I'm gonna try to see it towards the end of previews as I. You guys. I know you guys saw it. I would like to.

[B]

We saw it last night. Yeah. And it was only the fourth preview in. So it's. It's certainly not in its final form by any stretch of the imagination. But I was. I was Pretty impressed by the music. I was pretty impressed by a lot of things, actually. But a longer conversation for a different moment.

[A]

Well, speaking of longer conversations, I would like to see that show towards the end of previews when it's a little less long because I'm sure.

[B]

Correct. Yeah, that's. That was my biggest gripe. And it's a good thing to have this early in previews. That's a good problem. Yeah, it's like, like as far as if we're picking problems, that's a good.

[C]

It's a solvable problem.

[A]

No one's watching the show going, I'm sorry, what's happening now? Like I might have saying throughout most of Bad Cinderella, that was like, yeah, that is not going to get a book nomination, I can tell you right here, right now. But speaking of score.

[B]

No, unfortunately not.

[A]

Is it unfortunate?

[B]

Yeah, yeah. Do we think, do we think Bad Cinderella is going to go for score just like on, on a prestige level for Lloyd Webber, which feels rude to say.

[A]

Yeah, well, Andy has only not been nominated once for best score and that was for By Jeeves, which lasted all of two months. But it was I think in the fall of that season. So it was easy to kind of cut it out. We have. Because we have Kimberly, which is a lock. And I think still the front runner, Some Like It Hot, which is probably the follow up Shucks, just out of the sheer being original. And I have, I'm seeing it tomorrow, but I understand it's quite good. I have heard the major complaint about the score is that it just sounds like it's from a different musical than the book, which is not. I, it's. That is not the worst complaint you can have. That is sort of the complaint Sondheim always had about Forum. I'm like, okay, shucked, you're in good company. But it's not like necessarily a bad score. So we have those three and then we have Life of PI and then we ask ourselves, will there be a another play or do we put in either Bad Cinderella, K Pop or Almost Famous? Now, having seen all three of those.

[B]

Sorry to interrupt you and Juliet.

[A]

That would not be a best score nomination. That would be an orchestration nomination, which I think it'll probably get.

[B]

I see, I see, I see, I see.

[A]

Yeah, yeah, I think on that note, I think, yeah, orchestrations tend to be lined up with whatever shows, whatever best score nominations there are. And then the occasional jukebox musical. That's like we did a new thing with pre existing music. Like a Girl from the north country.

[B]

And then. Yeah, and then.

[A]

And then a revival that does, like, major orchestration changes. So, like, I do think if Parade ends up being eligible for orchestrations, which it might be, because I know it's based off of the originals, but it's not the exact number of instruments as in 99. If they're eligible, I do think Parade will get in there. Otherwise, I think orchestrations will be Kimberly Some Lick It Hot and Juliet, New York, New York. And then probably shocked, I suppose. But for score. Yeah. Those final three, K Pop bat, Cinderella, Almost Famous. Have you. Did you see those three?

[B]

Yep. Will hasn't seen Bad Cinderella, but I. I did. Yeah.

[A]

Okay. And we've both seen K Pop and Almost Famous.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

Okay. I take Umbridge in different respects with all three, but that being said, K Pop just released their cast album, and that is a perfect time to do it if you want to get your score recognized by the Tony nominating committee, because that's exactly what women on the verge of energies breakdown did.

[B]

They sure did K Pop. It's not the full. The full cast album isn't out yet. They're releasing it in small increments in singles. So I think it's like three or four singles are out right now, but by the time.

[C]

By the time voting happens, the whole thing.

[A]

Yeah.

[C]

Kind of like what hadestown did in 2019. But.

[A]

Yeah.

[C]

Less.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

Yeah. I mean, just from. From me, me personally, if it. If it's based on my personal, like, taste and preferences, it's like K Pop all the way.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

And I think that would be. So. I think that would be such a beautiful thing for them to get nominated outside of, like, everything else.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

Just the recognition of, like, this was really good, and you guys blew it. What are you going to do?

[A]

Yeah, I. I think that the score of K Pop being listened to separately from the show will actually help it possibly get a nomination. And I think that even though Andrew Lloyd Webber. It's Angelo Webber on Broadway is such a weird thing because, like, he does have clout, he does have prestige, but he's not thought of super highly. Like, it's one of those things where everyone's sort of like, we recognize you're successful, we recognize you've won in the past. We recognize, like, we've nominated you many a lot of times, but none of us think you're, like, the best. It's a little Mean Girls, do you know what I mean? Where it's like, to his face, it's like, we love you. We respect you. When he turns his back. It's like, let's make a joke about him. So I feel like. Yeah, I feel like that's Cinderella. Having seen it, it's just. It's not successful enough as either a bop or as a piece of serious musical theater to really kind of overcome the bad press and to ride the coattails of, like. Well, Andy's gotten nominated in the past, I think K pop. While I don't. I did not find K pop successful as a musical. Didn't stop me from buying the bucket, hat and sweatshirt.

[B]

But still, we have the magnet on our fridge.

[A]

We are the same people, I think, listening to it separately. First of all, it's very impressive how authentic it does sound of the genre. And I also, as we come to actual Tony time, I will release another slew of fake Tony categories that don't exist. And my nominees for them, and one of them will be the hottest vocal arrangements, and it'll be Kimberly Akimbo and K Pop just fucking duking it out like it's Gladiator because.

[B]

Absolutely.

[A]

Yeah. If we're talking, like, vocal arrangements that are tight like a tiger, it is those two.

[B]

Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. You're not wrong about that.

[A]

Yeah. So I'm gonna say. I'll say, okay, Kimberly shucked something hot. Life of PI. K Pop. Those are my five. Those are my five. I'm gonna stick to them right now.

[B]

Yeah. I'm kind of. I'm kind of with you. I could see instead of Life of PI, it being bad. Cinderella.

[A]

Yeah, that can happen.

[B]

I think that's the Life of PI is the easiest one for them to be like.

[A]

Well, sure. No, absolutely. Approach.

[B]

Yeah. All things considered.

[A]

Unless they do six. What if. What if Almost Famous just sneaks in there all of a sudden? And that would also rock.

[B]

Yeah. I mean, I don't know. I'm giving everybody their flowers. I really am. I really am.

[C]

With Almost Famous, I thought that it did something really interesting in how it used existing music and original music, but the way that the original music kind of took cues from very specific songs of the era, I think that was a cool approach. It felt familiar to the audience, but new in a way that related to William Miller. Was that his name?

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

To.

[C]

To the young rock journalist experiencing something new in a world that he was familiar with on the outside but didn't know the details of.

[B]

I'll also say, just for a little context for Will. Will's a huge fan of, like, music of that era. To, like, going in.

[C]

That's true.

[B]

So there were a Lot of things in us seeing it together where I like it completely flew over my head. And he was like, that's a reference to this, this, this, and this. So it's like Tom Kitt doing his homework outside of. And like, you know, the entire team sort of like doing their homework outside.

[C]

Of and I mean, like, I've always admired Tom Kitt for his ability to pastiche rock music and pop music and then co opt that for a theater narrative setting.

[A]

In addition to that, I actually have.

[C]

A Lester Bangs book sitting in front of me just under the TV there. So, like, I've. I've. I went into the show having not seen the movie, but I knew all of the tropes and the. Even the writer character.

[B]

I know, I know, I know, I know. I know what you're about to say. I know what you're about to say.

[A]

Your wife just said how big a fan you are of music of that era, and you haven't seen the movie. That might be the biggest love letter to that genre of all time.

[C]

I agree, it is a contradiction.

[B]

It is. It's a glaring error on. On our part. But what do you mean?

[A]

Will, do you also say that you love women, but you haven't seen women talking about. Because those women were talking. Okay, I'm just saying. That's what I hear. Yeah, those women were also talking on Broadway, and it's called Dance in the Musical. But it wasn't just the women. It was everybody. Oh, my God. Listen, I'm only mad about it because they literally began the show and they were like, nothing but dance, nothing else. And I was like, okay. And then the next scene is a three minute dialogue scene, like, hope you like skits. Hope you like sketches, baby. And I'm like, well, you just lied to me right off the bat, and I don't trust you anymore.

[C]

What's more Bob Fosse than a lie?

[A]

Oh, that's true. Well, yeah, I guess a lie. Bob Fosse either would be brutally honest or he would lie to your face. He never truly gaslit you. He was never like, what are you talking about? That never happened. He's like, no, I definitely did that. Or he's like. Or if you try to get in front of you, just walk away. Anywho, um. I only barely knew him.

[B]

Loud and wrong.

[A]

Yep. He. This is not Diana the Musical, okay? That was last season.

[B]

No, you're right, you're right, you're right. All right.

[A]

Oh, actually, since some. Since you just saw it and I've been reading some Reports about this online. I would like to talk about another very hotly contested category, leading actress in a musical at the moment. So until. Until literally this morning, I had my five, and I think it could become six, ironically, because of one person who was once in six, or if it is five, who does this woman beat out? We have, in my opinion, two super locks, which is Victoria Mallory. Victoria. She's not with us anymore. Victoria Clark. I know. I used to have voice lessons with her. Victoria Clark. Victoria Clark. Kimberly Akimbo. Michaela Diamond. Yeah, for sure. Those are like, you can't put money on that because everyone wins then. Most likely Emily Ashford and Sweeney, for sure.

[B]

That was my third.

[A]

Yeah, haven't seen her yet. But like Sweeney and Mrs. Lovett, it's just like, you play those roles, you get nominated, even if you're only okay.

[B]

And. God, I was going to say from everyone that I've talked to that seen it so far, it's just like she's running away with it.

[A]

So, yeah, I mean, that's the role that runs away with it. I. I like her. I have not liked her in the last couple of shows I've seen, but I'm hopeful that I will like her again in this. I've heard the same reports that, like, she and Gaten, and we'll get to Gaten in a second, but I've heard that she and Gaten really are like the standouts. But, yeah, so I definitely say those three. And then originally I had Sara Bareilles for Into the woods and Philippa sue for Camelot and. And my hot take for a minute, yeah, my hot take for a minute was that I thought Sarah might be into the woods only acting nomination because that show, while it was successful, it is closed. And I also want to remind everyone when we eventually get to revival, there has yet to be a closed revival that has won best revival. Of course, yeah, those revivals that have won have closed quickly afterwards, but nothing that was already closed as one. Just reminding everyone as we make those predictions down the road, when we eventually start doing winners in a few weeks. But there is just simply too. There are simply too many shows currently running with performances that everyone is talking about where I'm like, I just can't see woods getting, like, four nominations for acting.

[B]

I mean, maybe because it's on tour and a lot of those people are still touring, but I can't imagine. I mean, in all likelihood, I think.

[A]

Gavin's the only one on that tour, though, who's eligible. And even then, like, featured actor Musical is pretty stacked too.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

But let's just say for now that Sarah. Sarah is, I think, vulnerable right now. But I'll put her in there for a second.

[B]

The star power outweighs the fact that the show's closed.

[A]

Exactly. And that.

[B]

Tune in to see. Yeah. People would tune in to see Sara Bareilles at the Tonys regardless of whether or not she would actually have a shot in taking it.

[A]

Absolutely. I. My fifth was then going to be Philippa, sue and Camelot. But I feel. I don't know. I've heard divided things about Camelot. I've heard from everyone that she is wonderful. I've also heard that the show. From some people that the show is wonderful and from some people that the show is kind of dull. Camelot. Dull surprise. But it is a chance to nominate her as I don't. I am not convinced she will get nominated for woods and featured actress. But I think of the five of those five because then we have Anna. How do we say her last name in New York, New York? Is it Uzel?

[C]

Uzel. I. I've read it as Uzel, but I have not heard it. So I. I apologize if I'm mispronouncing it, but I.

[A]

That's how it. If she gets nominated for a Tony, you better believe we're all going to know how to say her name. Yeah, absolutely. I'm going to say Anna Uzel. She's the female lead of New York, New York. And you guys just saw it the other. Last night. Can you speak a bit about her role in that show?

[B]

Yeah, I mean, incredibly impressive, wonderful voice. A lot of. I feel like it's. It's.

[C]

It's so early to say.

[B]

It's so early to say because it is being re.

[C]

Reshaped to an extent and it's. It makes it difficult to assess someone's ability to work within that arc when the arc is changing mid the.

[B]

The numbers that she's in that I'm sure aren't being cut like the big splashy, gorgeous. I mean she's set piece numbers. It's, you know, her center stage spotlight, you know, her moments. Excellent. I don't know. I. Our big. We had many thoughts about New York, New York, but some of them were more about maybe the way that the relationship between the two main characters is being directed than like their actual acting choices. So it makes me. I'm a little precious with.

[C]

It feels early for us to say with that example.

[B]

I'll say we were very impressed by her. We were impressed by the whole show.

[A]

You think there Is a world at the show gets tighter also, by the way, I think there's a slight delay, so apologies if there's any overlap or interrupt interruption at any point.

[B]

Sure.

[A]

Is. Do you think there's a world. And if the show gets tighter and they don't necessarily cut any of her big numbers that she could get in there, or do you think that it's. There's a world in which, great as she is, she might just get a little nudged out by those five?

[C]

I think both are possible. The. I could.

[A]

I could see her.

[C]

I could see her in that list.

[B]

My thought with New York, New York in general is that I feel like it's going to be up against Some Like It Hot in a lot of, like, the. Like. Which big, splashy musical gets this slot? And we haven't seen Some Like It Hot yet. So it's very difficult for me to go, like, yeah, it's definitely going in the New York, New York direction because I'm biased because it's so fresh in my mind and I haven't seen the. The other. So I. I don't know. It really could go. Could go either way.

[A]

Well, Rachel, let me then, as someone who has seen Some Like It Hot tell you exactly.

[B]

Give me the hot note and watch me bounce.

[A]

Yeah.

[C]

That'S a sophisticated joke.

[A]

This is a great day to be us. So something Hot, I will say. Yeah, I saw it in December, and I was going through a bit of a time. For those of you who want to know exactly what that means, my play, Yours Truly, will be coming to Broadway next season. I will be winning the Pulitzer then, and you can find out all about it. But I can't wait. I can't wait. I was definitely sort of like, in an emotional state where I was like, I desperately need a musical to make me happy. And I went with my grandmother, who's 92, and we saw it, and I was like, that was fine. I had just seen and Juliet, like, two weeks prior, which I kind of had the same vibes of. Like, I don't think this show is bad. I'm just not necessarily enjoying it. Like, I. I, like, was sitting there, like, there's not a lot I can pick apart about angel yet. I'm just. I don't. This is not really exciting me.

[B]

It's either for you or it's not.

[A]

Yeah, I mean, like, there. Let me be clear. I am me. So of course I can come up with stuff to object to. And I. And I will say it if you poke me. But like, I don't think it's like a bad musical and it's frustrated a lot of my listeners because they're like, well, if you didn't like it, do you think like is you?

[B]

Why?

[A]

Yeah, why? I'm like, believe it or not, I am someone who can separate the two. But as opposed to people like, well, I enjoyed Bad Cinderella, therefore it's a wonderful musical. Like, no, you enjoyed it and it's bad. They, the two can be true. But Some Like It Hot, I, I went in and I wanted it to lift me up and it didn't. And I was like, I don't think this is bad. I just, I'm not loving it. And my 92 year old grandmother was like, no, I don't like this, I think it's bad. Whereas my dad and 99 year old grandmother loved it. I think Some Like It Hot will fill a lot of nomination slots. I don't think it's going to win a lot. Where I think it's truly vulnerable is an actress. I don't think Adriana will get in there. And part of it is how they've written the role and part of it is her performance. I mean she sings like a motherfucker, right? Like they give her two, two or three. Really.

[B]

We have heard the cast album. It's nuts.

[A]

You know what, what she does vocally is astounding. I don't think the songs are great because they are. Of all the songs in the show, those three are like the ones from like this is not really of the era, which I wouldn't normally hate, but they make it a whole point to like have it be very twenties jazzy. And they just don't make her interesting enough. They, they try to tap into the damage that the character has in the movie, but they want her to still be independent. And I'm like, she can't be a mess and, and independent at the same time. Like she's, she's got to kind of become independent over the course of the show. You know, the way like a character arc would normally go for a person in a show but. And because of that there's not much that she can play. And she's sort of at odds all the time where she's like, I've got a drinking problem and trust issues but I don't need anyone.

[B]

And it's like right, the over correction of the female protagonist.

[A]

I'm not like other girls. The, I can save myself. And it's like, well now you have no personality. And. And there's a sea of men on that stage, so it's like her one weapon needs to be that she's got nothing but personality, as opposed to Natasha Yvette Williams, who just, like, comes out guns blazing. And you're like, more of that, please. But, yeah, I don't think Adriana will get in there. And I think because Some Lickin Hot has an original score, that helps it, but I don't know, like, for me, it's sort of like Casey Nicholas, Susan Stroman. I know she hasn't really had a winning streak lately, but I'm gonna always go with Stroman. I feel like she just knows structure of a musical number. Like, some of the best dance numbers of the last 30 years have been hers.

[B]

And I can't wait for you to see New York, New York.

[A]

Oh, no, Rachel, don't say that.

[B]

No, in a good way. No, in a good way.

[A]

It's.

[B]

It's. A couple of those numbers are, like, seared into my brain.

[A]

Right. Oh, perfect. That makes me so happy.

[C]

The way that she's. The way that Stroman is able to find everyday objects and be like. And now this is being used in a new way. It's like magic. It's like magic.

[B]

It's like magic.

[A]

I know.

[C]

There's the. For running so long stomp kind of became a punching bag.

[A]

Yeah.

[C]

But it's. It kind of felt like that moment of like, oh, my gosh, now this is a brand new object in front of your eyes. You see it happen. You've seen the seams, and yet you. It's like your object permanence has disappeared. And he's like, wow, she's got my nose.

[A]

Yeah. I mean, I think his stomp, the gimmick was like, how many objects can we make percussion out of? But Stroman, it always. She always tries to make it come organically out of character and story of, you know, what's what around these characters that they can find music out of. And sometimes that works gorgeously, like, literally every single number and crazy for you. And then sometimes it's like, oh, Stroh. We're grasping at straws, like in Big Fish. But.

[B]

I would say if there was a Tony category for transitions, she'd have it down for New York, New York. The transitions were so crazy. Yeah, it's. And it's just full of stor. Like, there's, like, every second of that show is just storytelling, almost to the point where we were talking about it this morning, and there were, like, big Chunks and moments that we were like, I didn't even catch that. And you caught it. Like, there's so much going on. Well, which might be. Which might be it's Achilles heel, but whatever. I don't have to geek out.

[A]

Well, that's. But that's the beauty of having so much good in a show. If they make it tighter, like, yes, you might lose a beautiful moment. But, like, the good news is there are six other moments you've kept. Oh.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

So, I mean. And I'm. I'm hopeful. I'm hopeful, but. So we'll transition to choreography with this. But I gave my five. I would like you two to give your five for leading actress in a musical. And then, like, if. And then I'm gonna have to make you do the Sophie's Choice. Like, if there's one person that you think might be vulnerable in your five, who is it? And who do you think's got their eye on your vulnerable person?

[B]

Yeah. I mean, my pick to win is Victoria Clark.

[C]

Yeah.

[B]

By a lot.

[C]

And we were fans at.

[B]

Yeah. We saw Atlantic. Yeah.

[C]

Walking out of the theater, like, if this goes to Broadway, she's getting a Tony nomination and probably winning.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

What she's doing is so crazy. But, yeah, I mean, I really agree with your list. Her. Annelie Ashford.

[A]

What else?

[B]

Yeah, for sure. We haven't seen it on Broadway yet, but we saw it at City center, and it's like, she.

[A]

She's lovely. I don't know what her accent was like at City Center. It's a little odd on Broadway. And it's the one note I really have about her. It's like Forest Gump meets the Queen. So she'll be like, leo, we're going to the parlor. Leo. And I'm like, michaela, come on, let's fix this. Yeah. And. And odd. But the rest of performance is lovely. I will get to the parade of it all in a second. But yeah. Annalee, Michaela, Victoria. And I will also say the reason why I think Victoria is going to win, not just because it's a performance that I think is extraordinary, but also there's the narrative and political elements of. She's been around. She hasn't won in 18 years. This is her first lead role in 18 years. And it's just like, she's just proven time and again how incredible she is. And we've given her a role that's meaty again, and it's the frontrunner for musical. It's like, shouldn't we? Shouldn't we?

[B]

Yeah. Yeah. I think all things considered, I would be surprised if it wasn't her, but stranger things have happened.

[A]

I just had a moment of, like.

[C]

18 years ago, and I did the surprising math of. Oh, my goodness. Light Piazza was 18 years ago. Okay.

[B]

Yeah, we're fine. We're fin.

[A]

Yeah. Graduating high school this year, guys.

[B]

Oh, wow. Don't frame it like that.

[A]

Sorry.

[B]

I don't know. At least I feel like I. I agree with your list. I. When we saw and Juliet the other day, we saw the understudy, and she was excellent. So it's like, I can't even speak for the other actress. I can't remember her name off the.

[A]

Top of my head. Lauren. According.

[B]

Yeah. But I kind of agree. I think it was your assessment. Yeah. Of, like, Aunt Juliet, where it's like everybody around her is. Is. Has a lot more going on. She doesn't have as much agency, as much inner world.

[A]

She's just not, as. Her role is not as interesting, in my opinion. Like, it's. And that's one of the issues I have with a lot of modern Broadway musicals that aim for a feminist perspective. Let me tell you about feminism, by the way, Rachel, since I'm an expert here.

[B]

Please do. Yeah, yeah, yeah.

[A]

Please, let me. Let me explain it.

[B]

I've heard good things.

[A]

I've heard of this feminism of which you speak, Matthew. No, but maybe. I don't know if you feel the same way. I. I felt this way about Cinderella and Juliet, and a few other shows were like. And iron. And of course, it tends to be men who write the books for this, but, like, it's this whole, like, I'm not like other girls. You can't tell me what to do. And. And because they're putting the female leads on this pedestal of, like, I'm feminist because I have no flaws, and because I don't need anyone and I'm not like other women, which. I hate that trope. I find it very sexist. Like, being like other women is like. Is, you know, a terrible thing. But by doing it.

[C]

Putting down women.

[A]

Yeah. Literally so much. So much I hate it. But I'm like, well, now, like, Juliet has no personality. She's not interesting. And, yeah, I did say on my Instagram, when someone's like, what are your thoughts of in Juliet? I was like, well, the main hook is, if Juliet didn't die, what would she do? And the show's answer is, not much. Everyone else go to Paris. Yeah, she goes to Paris. Everyone else is like, I'll go do things now. And so I don't think, I just don't think that role is a winner. I know that the actress who did it in London won, but the Oliviers are, are different. And they, it was a different. It's a different lineup of roles that that actress was up against, and it was a different actress. I just don't think it's it personally.

[B]

Yeah, yeah. I mean, it's a lot of fun, but, yeah, I hear you.

[A]

And she gets to sing since you've been gone. And she gets to sing Oops, I did it Again. And, you know, we're.

[B]

And Blow, which might be my favorite number that whole show. I was like, hell, yeah. Catch up.

[C]

She gets to swing from the chandelier like Danny Burstein.

[B]

Stop.

[A]

Yep. And. And Judy K. What is, what is with these Broadway shows? And everyone's swinging from damn chandeliers. I'm like, leave those chandeliers alone. They've done nothing.

[B]

It's the Phantom of the Opera effect.

[C]

Up there for a reason.

[A]

Yeah, Phantom's closing, guys. Come on. Like, let's, let's leave the chandeliers alone. Okay, choreography. Then we'll go into this. Oh, no, Will. Yeah, sorry, Will. You didn't give me actress.

[C]

I, I, I mean, I agree with that. 5. Except I think it's such a shame. In 1776, how for John Adams, the. Oh, goodness. Now I'm blanking on the names.

[A]

Oh, Crystal Lucas Perry.

[B]

Yes, thank you.

[C]

And how she was in and then stepping in just a few weeks.

[A]

Yeah. Crystal and Lloyd. Yes.

[B]

Yes.

[A]

For this is what I'm here. This is what I'm here for.

[B]

No, no, this is so good. Normally, this is what I'm turning to Will for. So this is great. I have two of you now. I can never remember anybody's name. Oh, my God.

[C]

But this kind of runs into the issue that Company had when Dean Jones was in for the opening night performance. And technically is the one that is eligible. But then.

[A]

It was Larry Kurt.

[C]

Larry.

[B]

Oh, my God. I was thinking the Arrested Development.

[C]

I was like, that's how.

[A]

Who did Larry Kurt replace in Company? I don't know. I can tell you who. He thought he was replacing Dean Jones, but he didn't come close. My God, you are in the army. Anyway.

[B]

But standing ovation from us.

[C]

Outstanding.

[B]

Excellent. Excellent.

[C]

But it kind of runs into that issue of, like, both performances were so well received, but only. But the one that the voters really are unable to see is the only one that is eligible for the category, and it kind of dooms the show from Getting that. Potentially getting that award or the nomination.

[A]

Yeah. I think what will help Crystal is that she's also going to be eligible for Ain't no Mo, where I think she actually has a really good shot at a nomination.

[B]

That's right. That's right. Yeah. She was excellent.

[C]

Yes.

[A]

Yeah. And I. Yeah, I. So, yeah, let's not cry for Crystal, because I think. I do think that is where she. Unlike Philippa, I know she feel about similar situations. They're eligible in two separate categories, and there's one where I think they really have a good shot at the nomination and one where they're far more vulnerable. Yeah. And also, I mean, when I saw 1776, I felt I was watching Crystal, and it's why I actually. I was so happy when I saw her in Ain't no Mo. And it made sense to me why she would leave 1776 to do a. No more 1776. I felt like she kind of got a little lost in the shuffle because they wanted John Adams more to be sort of the linchpin of the show rather than the real protagonist. So they had. It was like she. They made her more earnest in the role. And I'm like, yeah, John Adams is usually, like, annoying as fuck. It's what makes him such a fun protagonist. It's like he's on the right side of history. I just hate hearing him talk and. Right. Yeah. And they tried to make her far more, like, earnest and compelling. And I watch her try, but, like, it's really hard to sound compelling when your character's a douchebag. And I would like, as a. As a sometimes actor myself, I would watch her really try to make it work. I was like, I see you trying. It's not your fault that you're not totally succeeding. It's. You're being directed incorrectly here. And then in Ain't no Mo, where she was. The role fit her like a glove, and she's directed well and the roles have. She's playing multiple different roles. I was like, yeah, no, this is. This is really what she can do when she's allowed to fly free. So hopefully that's where she goes. But we can get to featured. Yeah. Choreography.

[B]

Yes.

[A]

We mentioned Stroh, who, with sight unseen, I'm calling the front runner in this category.

[B]

Yeah. Well, here's what we were talking about this last night. How does Danson work? Like, is it eligible?

[A]

That's a great question.

[C]

It is technically Wayne Cilento, but Is that. Is that the pronunciation? Cilento?

[A]

Yeah.

[C]

I never said it out loud. Okay.

[A]

The.

[C]

But in resetting Bob Fosse's choreography to the point that it is Bob Fosse's dancing, doubling the number of apostrophes in the title of the show.

[B]

Stupid.

[C]

It. It's a weird. It's a weird place to be.

[A]

Have you guys seen.

[B]

I just don't know if. Yes. Yes. And I mean, we.

[C]

There's even more scaffolding in the theater than there is outside. The music.

[B]

Lots of scaffolding. This big scaffolding everywhere.

[A]

Outside.

[B]

Inside.

[A]

Newsies is revived, everybody.

[B]

That's a. That's a. A new. A New York joke. So, I. I don't know. I. I guess if it is eligible, that would be my front runner because it is extremely well done. And as the title says, like, that's what it's all about. It is dancing, and we really enjoyed it. Neither of us are, like, huge, I guess, like, dance people, per se. I don't know how fair that is.

[C]

For you, but I was able to dance. It was not something that I followed closely.

[B]

Yeah. And I'm physically disabled, so I can't really. I can fake my way through it, but not so well. But to be able to appreciate good dance a million percent. But, yeah, like I said, if it's eligible, I feel like that's the front runner. If it's not eligible, now we have, like, a real race on our hands.

[A]

Yeah. So, I mean, the way the choreography tends to work at the Tony Awards is most choreography wins with a. With a few exceptions. Because then if. And also, like, if there are two shows that could battle about for most choreography, it'll usually go to the one that is a little more inventive or stylized. So, like, for example, last year, I would argue most choreography was between MJ and Paradise Square, but MJ had much more pizzazz and style and crispness to it and wins. I. I do wonder if dancing's eligible. I don't think it will be, because watching it, even when Cilento was, like, repurposing Fosse choreography, it was still Fosse choreography. So, like, them doing mine hair to plastic Chicken. I'm like, you're still doing the choreography of my hair just to a different song and only for 30 seconds. So I don't think it'll be eligible. And even if they decide to, for poops and giggles, I feel like voters might be a little divided about that. It's like, well, do I not. Do I vote for Wayne Cilento when my favorite number was Sing, Sing, Sing and That is just Fosse Torio.

[B]

Right.

[A]

Or, you know, like Beat Me Daddy Ate to the Bar, which is a number I have to say the full title of, because you can't just abbreviate it to I loved Beat Me Daddy. It's like. No, can't say that.

[B]

It depends on what room you're in.

[A]

Well, speaking of all that scaffolding, if we're at. If we're at Industry Bar, you never know who you could say it to.

[B]

That's right. That's right.

[A]

Exactly. Another New York joke. For those of you non New Yorkers, it is a gay bar. I. The reason. So I. Let's just say Danson is not eligible for a second. Just to keep things interesting, we have Stroh.

[C]

Well, then that puts Sesame street the Musical back in from Stop.

[A]

Sure do. Pinkalicious is back. We do have Stroh for New York. We've got Nicola for Some Like It Hot, whoever the choreographer is for. And Juliet. What else would we. I guess the choreography from B Cinderella, Joanne Hunter for that. I'm trying to think what else there would be. K pop are the. Would life. Is there choreography? Life of Pie. Is there. Is there choreography? Yes.

[C]

Oh, you know what? In the way that everything. When Curious Incident was nominated for choreography, I think that this could fall under the same category.

[B]

Yeah, you're so right.

[C]

There is so much movement that is choreographed between people achieving the same physical goal. If we think of choreography that way.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

I mean, the. The tiger is literally three people. So to say that that's not choreographed, I think would be insane. I mean, you would have to. It would have to be down to them. I mean, I know when we saw it out of town in Boston, they did a talk back after and the three actors who play the tiger came out and sort of talked about their process. And I know that they. In at least the rehearsal process, there's like a lot of improv and they're like so in sync with each other that they can do that. But I mean, on stage, I would assume that it's like down to the.

[C]

Centimeter or just being able to read each other as a unit. The way you would work with scene partners.

[A]

Yeah, yeah. And I mean, I just said earlier, like, usually the Tonys vote for what's most choreography or nominate what's most choreography. But there is also something we said for like a show that just has constant movement, even if it's not always newsy level arabesques and flips. Like, if there. If there is just a seamless use of movement. They tend to go for that as well. And plays like Curious Incident or for Colored girls and. And things like in Choir Boy.

[B]

Oh, yeah, yeah.

[A]

So I. I think if Life of PI can be eligible, I do think that it could get in there. So, I mean, we're not really going about winners right now, but I will say, and this. There's no way to say this and not sound bitchy, so just know I don't mean this bitchy, everybody. This is just sort of where we at. I love Casey Nicholaw. It has felt to me ever since Book of Mormon. He has been chasing that best choreography, Tony. Like the brass ring. And so each show I've seen of his has always had a little more dance than it probably needs.

[B]

Sure.

[A]

And that sometimes results in a beautiful number like that Act 2, ballet and tuck Everlasting. Where I was like, that is where we use dance, Casey. Not all of act one. Or, like, mean girls. The whole, like, first 20 minutes of mean Girls, I'm like, this is the transitions and all this is gorgeous. Some Like It Hot has that tap scene quiz in Act 2. That's incredible. But there are two big production numbers in Some Like a Hot. And we can discuss this when you guys see it, but because the show begins and they are so, like, have a good time. And it's like, just spinal tap 11 out of 10 from the get go. And I'm like, that's a really hard level to maintain for two and a half hours. There is a bit of a, like, exhaustion pipe for that show. Whereas I feel like Strawman is really good at build and not, like, hitting you over the head immediately. And more like, as you said, you know, finding. Leading you by the nose by, like, surprising you in different ways and storytelling and transitions. But I think those are probably our two front runners for Choreo.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

And then Juliet and Life of Pie and. I don't know, Rachel. Do we think Batsinderella has a shot of getting a fifth slot?

[B]

Sure.

[A]

Why not?

[B]

I. I don't.

[A]

I don't. I'm gonna be harder.

[B]

I feel like so much of that show just, like, washed right over me. I mean, my favorite. It might. It might.

[A]

It might.

[B]

I wouldn't be surprised if it did. I wouldn't be surprised if it didn't.

[A]

Yeah. I. I see a world in which that show surprisingly gets four nominations and a world in which that show gets zero. It's just like, you know, I don't.

[B]

Think it'll get zero.

[A]

I. I don't. I'M not putting money on it, but I see a butterfly effect where, like, there I. I see four multiverses, and in one of the multiverse, I see.

[B]

I think, yeah, maybe. I don't know.

[A]

I would say they would have to, like, nominators would have to really, really hate it to not give it at least one. Probably costumes, I would say.

[B]

I was literally gonna say costumes, and then I kind of stopped myself, so I'm glad you said it.

[A]

And I did not love the costumes in the show. I. I thought that they didn't really nail the assignment. But they are very broad and colorful, and the Tonys don't really go for modern, casual costuming in the way that, like, the Oscars are finally starting to acknowledge more contemporary costumes. The Tonys are still, like, no, no, no. Period clothing only.

[B]

That's the most impressive. So.

[A]

Yes. And I'd hate to sound like a Kimberly Kimbo, you know, butt boy, but there are things about that show that I feel like won't get nominations that it's totally could like. I think the costuming is so on point in that show. And there's something really 90s, baby. 90s.

[B]

Yeah, yeah, yeah.

[A]

Even the choreography show choir kids, like, I think is so impressive and seamless and. And beautifully done. Like their choreo they do for the turn in Act 2. I'm like that. I think the whole thing is just.

[B]

Really like, oh, on that time, I almost said timetable. Turntable. Yeah.

[C]

He gave you the word.

[B]

Yeah, he did give me the word. What are you gonna do?

[A]

What. What you going to do? You guys pick. Pick a category. Let's go.

[C]

I'm gonna go Best leading actor in a musical.

[A]

Sure. All right, give me a five.

[C]

Like another just stacked.

[B]

Super stacked.

[C]

We've got Ben Platter Parade.

[B]

I would be shocked if he wasn't. I mean, Josh Groban. I would be shocked if he wasn't.

[C]

Do we think Brian Darcy James for Into the Woods?

[B]

No, I would like him to be. I. It's not. But I'm not speaking from my personal tastes and preferences. I'm thinking, like, what is realistic?

[A]

Yeah, yeah. I.

[C]

And again, Darcy James in a musical at the St. James Theater where he refuses to accept the help of his wife.

[A]

Sure.

[C]

Again.

[A]

Again. Brian Darcy James. Come on, man. Well, and again, we have to remember, even though into the woods only closed in January, that most of that cast was gone by mid September. And.

[B]

Oh, yeah.

[A]

So it's been a really.

[B]

He was in and out.

[A]

Yeah, everyone was in and out. And it's been A long time since nominators saw those performances. And while they probably thought themselves, I really liked it, you can't help but think about the stuff that's here now, you know? And I feel like as each show starts, previews that turns out to be good or opens and turns out to be good, people get really excited about. About it, and it's hard to kind of maintain that excitement and, and then look back on a closed show with performers who left a long time ago and be like, yeah, no, I, I can muster enough excitement about that for the people that are here right now performing in front of me.

[B]

Right, Exactly. Exactly. How do we feel about Stark Sands and Juliet?

[A]

I think he's in featured. I think all the men in, in that show are featured, I think. Sure. Well, did they. I think that's. I think that's what they did. Hold, please. I'm looking up Tony eligibility.

[B]

I could see it either. I could. I could see the argument either way.

[A]

Yeah. I, I, I know that before the first ruling came out, a lot of people thought he could be in a lead. But let us see. Clark is lean, so everyone else is featured. Yeah. So Lorna Courtney is the only one in Aunt Juliet who's being considered for lead. Everyone else is, in fact, featured.

[B]

So interesting.

[A]

And I think that's another reason why I know a lot of people, like, well, I think Gavin could win his second Tony for Into the Woods. I'm like, there are just so many featured actor possibilities so stacked. Yeah. I could see Stark surprising us in there. And the actor who played Francois, I thought was so good. And I, I mean, I know he's not. I know he's not gonna. That's just, that's, that's the case from, like, if I was the sole nominator, there was no committee. It was just me. I would do it just to be like, guys, watch out for this one. No. So we have, we have Ben, we.

[C]

Have Josh, Justin Cooley.

[A]

Justin Cooley's Justin Cooley is featured.

[B]

That makes sense. There's no. It's an interesting year because there's a lot. There's a lot of shows that have no leading man.

[A]

We love to see it.

[B]

Yeah. Yeah. As a, as a new feminist, I just found out about the single feminism from you. Thank you so much.

[A]

Oh, I, I'm thrilled by this twist, everybody. I'm actually Susan B. Anthony. I've been in hiding for the last hundred years, and I'm back to tell you about feminism.

[B]

Oh.

[C]

Like Dolly Levi coming down the stairs. Here she is. Boys.

[B]

Oh, my God. Will I beg to differ with you.

[A]

How do you mean?

[B]

You're the top. Yeah. You're an arrow color. You're the top. You're a coolage dollar. You're the nimble tread of the okay. Back here.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

Okay. Okay. Again, I'm gonna sound like the biggest New york New york stan in the universe and I swear it's only because it's so fresh in my mind. But colton ryan in new york New york I think will get a nomination.

[A]

Interesting. I.

[B]

So then I think it's. I go on. I'm sorry.

[A]

This is where the delay comes in because you were talking. Then I stopped and back and forth. No, no, tell me. Tell me about colton Ryan, Rachel, do it.

[B]

I think it is. Okay, so first of all, we're taking into consideration so many shows not having leading men. Right. So it's a smaller pool than most of the other categories. I think it's an incredibly. First of all, the scale of the part is large. Like he's on stage the majority of the show. The songs that he gets and the moments that he gets I think are like. I mean, he already has a tony so what. What am I really talking about but like. Or am I thinking of someone else?

[A]

I.

[C]

He was nominated for the colton ryan inheritance.

[B]

No, I'm thinking. I'm thinking. Yes. Thank you. I'm confusing my. My leading men and we haven't seen camelot yet so I could be. Yeah. Wrong and on even in my predictions. But sorry, the. The moments that he gets. I don't want to ruin anything but some of these songs that he gets are very, very special and I think it's. It's nominee worthy level performance.

[A]

Yeah, that's exciting for me. I love. I honestly, I love that because I originally had for my five when I did like a prediction on insta a few weeks ago and I'll post some of this after the episode eight drops. My original five and I before you just came in and rocked my world. Rachel were jay harrison gee for something like it hot, Ben platt for parade, Christian borrell for some like it hot, Josh groban for sweeney and Andrew burnett for camelot. Now I sure of those five, Christian was my number one vulnerable slot because I love christian borrell and he's not bad in some like it hot but it of the two lee of the two male leads, Jay has the role that has always dominated like it was. It's the role that got jack lammon oscar nominated and he got robert morse tony nominated and jay does A lovely job and has, like, a really big song in Act 2. And also, like, looks so good as Daphne that I'm like, I'm sorry. Has Chanel contacted you to model for them? Like, this is insane. But I always thought if there was a vulnerable spot, it would be him. And it could be Brian, Darcy, James for Into the Woods. But if Colton really does have those moments in New York, New York, he could be the one who slips in. Because I. I know a lot of people who aren't really counting on Andrew Burnapt, which I say, don't count out Andrew Burnout. First of all, Arthur is like, that is. That is secretly the role of Camelot. He doesn't sing as much, but he has so much scene work. And Andrew is in this actor. For anyone who saw me.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

Anyone who saw him in the Inheritance.

[B]

Yeah. That's what I was confusing in my brain. But yes, yes, yes, yes.

[A]

Because I remember that. That. That Covid Tony is the, you know, the gas leak year. He. He was up. Come on. What else was that year? But that.

[B]

I know, I know, I know.

[A]

But still, because he was up against. I remember it was Jake Gyllenhaal and Tom Sturridge for that show and Tom Hiddleston and. And Blair Underwood. And I think everyone was like, oh, I think this is between Hiddleston and Gyllenhaal. They're going to want to give it to a movie star. And they both were so good in their shows. And I would sit there going, like, I guess. But Burnout was just so fantastic in the Inheritance. And then he won, and he wasn't even, like, a front runner to get nominated. Everyone thought it was going to be Kyle because he has, like, the big moment at the end of part one. And I just. I just remember sitting there being like, but Burn up is, like, really doing something special here. And also as a, you know, sexy as hell, he's my tall drink of talent, and I just. I really think he's gonna get in there for sure. So I can't count him out. So if it's. If anyone's gonna get cut out, I think it'll be Boral. And if Colton's doing the things you say, Rachel, it might be Colton.

[B]

I was impressed.

[A]

Yeah. Especially if there's no male lead in and Juliet. And I don't think there's really a male lead and shucked. Like, it's a female protagonist in a lot of featured players. Right?

[B]

Yes.

[C]

But I do love Andrew Duran. I'm not sure the size of His. His role. But we were obsessed with him and head over heels.

[A]

Yeah, he was.

[C]

We were like, we're like, we're gonna see whatever he does next.

[B]

Yeah, yeah. It's hard. It's hard not having seen Shucked because I feel like I know so. I mean, purposefully, we know so little about it going in that it could surprise me in every sense.

[C]

It could amaze.

[A]

I'm. I'm getting lots of something rotten vibes from Shocked right now. Just like, in terms of its whole narrative of very aggressive and effective marketing that's just making everyone go, what is this show about? What is this thing? But everyone's talking about it. And then early preview reports are just like, very positive. Oh, it's hysterical. And could be a real contender and it might be, but I'm sorry, I'm just getting very 2015 deja vu, where we have the brand new musical comedy that no one knows anything about with an effective marketing campaign. The old movie that's being adapted into a big splashy musical, AKA something like Hot Slash. An American in Paris as well has another movie musical that's being adapted for the stage. Like American in Paris. Slash. Kandernab, A Candor. And a musical like the Visit. And then we. And then we have the Tesori musical.

[B]

Yeah, yeah.

[C]

When Pivotal turntable.

[A]

Yep. And not. And a very strong female lead. And not for nothing, guys, but we saw how 2015 turned out. So when it comes to predicting winners. Just saying.

[B]

Never counted out.

[A]

No. Have you guys watched any of that Waiting in the Wings YouTube channel?

[B]

Yeah. Yeah. Big fans.

[A]

Yeah. He's. He's, he's great. I have considered writing to him once or twice just because every now and then I'm like, that's not really how it happened. As someone who was there for the 2015 Tony and he has a whole video about Fun Home, he's like, no one knew how that night was going to go. It was between Fun Home and American in Paris. And I really want to, like, email him, be like, I was in New York and I was in the community when that was happening. We all knew it was Fun Home. Like, on paper, everyone was going, maybe, but everyone was like, it's Fun Home. It's going to sweep. And it.

[C]

Which one are you actually putting on your ballot? On your ballot to win for free drinks for the evening?

[A]

Yeah, it was in the same way of when, like the year of Hamilton. We all sat around the TV and just. And just went, but, like, what if it's waitress? Just in terms of, like, it's such a sure thing that no one wants to say it completely, but we're like, but what if it's waitress? What. What if it's.

[B]

I had a real moment with choreography that year where I was like, what if it's Shuffle along and not Hamilton?

[A]

You have no idea how much I wished it was Shuffle Along, Rachel. Okay, I'm gonna. This is where I'm gonna fan girl for you guys for a second. I love all the things you post. I think everything you post is directly for me. Thank you so much. You did one. You did one. That it's the only one I shared. Just because it was so me that I needed all the people who pay attention to what I say or do to know this. It was a fairly odd parents.

[B]

Yep.

[A]

Screenshot. You know exactly what I'm talking about with the dad. Normally, it's the episode about the melted trophy. Here's my running trophy, if I had one. And it was. Here's my Shuffle along cast album, if I had one.

[B]

And I. Yeah, because we're big mad. We're so mad about it. I couldn't believe it while it was happening.

[A]

This is the kind of person.

[B]

Here we are years later.

[A]

This is the kind of person I am. The 2019 Tony Awards. I made it a point to see every single nominee, and I am dangerously close this year to doing the same. It's kind of insane, but I made it a point to watch all the nominees, and if I missed them when, by the time they close, I went to the library to watch them. So there was a day I watched Bernhardt Hamlet because they were nominated for actress in costumes. And as I'm sitting there watching it halfway through Act One, and it's, like, kind of bored out of my mind. The guy next to me was watching Shuffle along, and I just sat there so upset because I was like, I want to be doing what you're doing. I want to be watching Shuffle It Off. But I'm watching Bernhard. Hamlet.

[B]

Respect.

[A]

Respect. Oh, I forgot. We should take a break.

[B]

Billy, I beg to differ with you.

[A]

How do you mean?

[B]

You're the top.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

You're an arrow collar. You're the top. You're a Coolidge dollar. You're the nimble thread of the.

[A]

And we're back. Sorry. I'm on a network, and I have. And I have advertisers.

[B]

Sponsors. Yes.

[A]

God damn it.

[B]

Brought to you by.

[C]

Oh, those sponsors sounded really great.

[B]

I love the sponsors.

[A]

I love the sponsors. It was especially great back in 2022 in one random episode where I kind of shat all over the revival of 1776. We went to commercial break, and the commercial was for 1776. Listen, I try not to be a dick with my opinions, but sometimes it happens.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

So, okay, we've done.

[B]

Oh, I have a question about Camelot.

[A]

Yes. Yes.

[B]

Jordan, Donica. What is it? Supporting. Is Lancelot supporting?

[A]

I think that's going to be a featured one. Yeah. They haven't. They haven't opened yet, so they can't say officially, but I think that's going to be a featured actor.

[B]

That is going to be featured actor and actress is too stacked. It's too. Let's do.

[A]

Well, okay. Let's. Let's. Okay, let's start rounding up the. The suspects. We will. Which. Which one do we do? Actor. Actress First.

[C]

Let's. We were on short and Donica. Let's do actor.

[B]

Yeah, let's do actor.

[A]

I knew you hated women, so here we go.

[B]

He hates them so much he married one, and that really tells you something.

[A]

And I love them and respect them so much that I stay away from them.

[B]

Stay away. Yep.

[A]

Stay away. I give them their distance. So, featured actor in a musical, Jordan Donnica for Camelot.

[B]

I think so. I think so. I mean, not having not seen him. I saw him sing at a Carnegie hall pops concert at Carnegie Deli, actually. Yeah.

[C]

Everyone was like, sit down.

[B]

I saw him at a pops concert back in, like, December, and he sang Soliloquy from Carousel, like, halfway through the show and got a standing ovation. So I was like, yeah, you're probably gonna be pretty good as Lancelot. It's like, yeah, I think. I think this is probably gonna be pretty good. So. And it was. I. I had seen him in a few things over the years, and, like, he wasn't really on my radar. And, like, that night, I was like, oh, okay. This is a very special person.

[A]

They also gave. Having not seen Camelot, they gave him an extra song. They gave him a song that Guinevere usually sings. I'm like, oh, now, man, slots got three songs.

[B]

Yeah. So that's. They just posted about it.

[A]

Give him a. He's singing I loved you once in silence. Yeah. Yeah.

[C]

So that's a. That's a good song for Lancelot.

[A]

It is. I mean, that means we have one less song of Pippa. But you know what? That girl's had two Broadway shows this year. She's. She's been singing plenty.

[C]

She needs to save some shows for us.

[A]

Yeah. Philippa Sue. God damn it. Women. Jordan. So okay, we're just going. Let's just go off of. Let's go. Let's. Let's round up our. Our major group, and we can start whittling it down. Jordan Donica is a suspect. Justin Cooley is a suspect. Stephen Boyer. Justin. Stephen Boyer is a suspect. Stark Sands, I'd say is a suspect. Kevin.

[B]

Gaten.

[A]

Gaten, yes. Gaten. Yeah, absolutely.

[B]

Kevin also haven't seen it, so it's.

[A]

I have not either, but I understand he runs away with the show. And he would be the second Tobias to get nominated, which I would love. Kevin in Some Like It Hot, I think is absolutely getting nominated. I'm forgetting the actor's name, but he plays Jim Conley in Parade. I think he's a major suspect.

[B]

Oh, my God. Yeah.

[A]

I have. I have it here. Hold on, hold on. I literally. I literally wrote this down.

[B]

I just hear that's what he said running through my head. I'm like. I said, I'm so terrible with the names.

[A]

Parade is an interesting musical for me because it has all these showstoppers that dramatically. I'm like, I don't want the audience cheering here, but, like, I respect that. The actor just tore up the floor. Hold on.

[C]

Yeah, well, my favorite thing on stage is the audience not sure whether or not they should clap.

[B]

Yeah, it's like.

[C]

Or when a show, like, points at the audience at the end and, like, this is your fault.

[A]

Like, Chicago.

[C]

And it's like, yeah, I love this.

[A]

Yeah, it's our fault. Alex Joseph. Alex Joseph Grayson. Alex Joseph Grayson, that is. Who plays Jim Conley.

[B]

Yes, yes, yes, yes, yes, yes.

[A]

Who does a lovely job. I mean, it's. There were two or three moments in Parade where the audience totally cheered just because the actor did such an amazing job. And then three moments where they, like, took two seconds before they cheered because they were like. That was super fierce. But dramatically speaking, that was upsetting. Fuck it. I'm going to applaud for the actor anyway. Like, it was. It was fascinating to watch. So, yeah. Alex Joseph Grayson. Jordan Donica, Stephen Boyer, Justin Cooley, Kevin Delagua, Gaten Maza, Stark Sands. That's seven.

[B]

Shocked.

[A]

Shocked. Yes. I don't know necessarily who we have in shock. I know Alex Newell is apparently tearing the roof off of the Nederlander. It's Alex's decision if they want to be considered, and if they do, in what category? I know that Jay Harrison Ghee had said that they would like to be put into the leading actor. So that was their decision. That's where they are eligible.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

Are there any other. I mean, we could look at performers in dance and I suppose, but I just think with such a stacked category, they're not going to go for an ensemble piece like that.

[B]

Probably not.

[C]

Plus, the roles of purely dance tend to not get awarded quite as much.

[A]

Yeah, it's. They need to sort of have nominations.

[B]

Have happened, certainly, but the likelihood of taking it is pretty slim.

[A]

The performer who does the Anne Ryan King trumpet solo and Sing, Sing, Sing would probably be my best. Just.

[B]

Yeah, the same thing.

[A]

Yeah. Because when it comes to a dance show, if someone gets nominated, they. You. They need to have like a star moment. And that is.

[C]

Yes.

[A]

No, that is the notorious star moment of dancing is the trumpet solo to the point that there was a lot of drama about it in the original production based off of, like, who was Anne's understudy, who was her replacement, and Bob just being like, who gets to.

[B]

Wear the blue dress?

[A]

Who gets to wear the blue dress? You knew what Bob thought of your dancing based on whether you got to wear the blue dress or not. I love shit like that. It's so petty and wonderful.

[B]

Yeah. Ugly.

[C]

Nice to be on the outside.

[B]

Yeah. Nice to be on the outside of, for sure.

[A]

Oh, absolutely. I also, I just want to say this. It's not going to happen because it's yet to happen so far, and he doesn't have quite a large enough role in it. But Paul Alexander Nolan should have five Tony nominations by now, and he is so incredible in Parade and if I had by Druthers, he'd be nominated and use that nomination to get himself a proper lead in a proper new musical. And we would give him a Tony for that. And we'd say, paul, we're so sorry you've been doing you dirty with some of these shows. But, yeah, I. But no one has ever said, matt, you get what you want. So I don't think it'll happen. I'm. I'm just. Paul Alexander Nolan dropped trou in Slave Play for me and we still made him the one person that cast not nominated. And I'm like, excuse you, he gave the gays what they want. Can you give us this as well, please?

[B]

It's homophobic.

[A]

It is homophobic. Thank you, Rachel. You're an alpha.

[B]

Also. I learned about homophobia recently as well, so.

[A]

Well, you saw New York, New York, feminism.

[B]

It's been a really, really big week for me.

[A]

Between Bat Cinderella, New York, New York, you've learned about homophobia and feminism, and it's. It's A big, It's a big new world for you.

[B]

Yeah.

[C]

Broadway is finally catching up.

[B]

Yeah. Wow.

[A]

Yeah. I now just, I want you to start singing I Remember sky and Take Me to the World. That's what I want for you right now, Rachel. This is your moment.

[B]

I Remember Sky. Okay. That's all you get. That's so goofy.

[A]

I feel like there's some joke there with Sarah Brown and Guys and Dolls singing I Remember sky when they like break up. I don't know. Something to think about for you guys with you and your memes. Just, just saying.

[B]

That's actually pretty good.

[A]

Yeah, it's not, but it's fine. I'm sure you guys can make it better if you wanted to. Featured actor in a musical. Rachel.

[B]

Jordan Donica. Jordan Donica. Probably Gaten. Yes.

[A]

Justin Cooley.

[B]

Yeah, probably Justin Cooley. So good. I don't know if, if Alex Newell, if Alex Newell goes for that category, I think any category they decide to be in, they're going to be in it. So we'll just, we'll just say for, for this case, Alex Newell and then the fifth slot. How do we round this out?

[C]

Stark Sands.

[B]

Maybe?

[A]

Yeah, for me, I said Kevin and something hot, but you guys haven't seen something like it hot yet.

[B]

Oh, parade, parade, parade, pray.

[A]

Right, yeah, yeah, that could be a category of 6 too. That's the thing is like 6 is not impossible, but it's also not a guarantee. So I, I like to predict five always. But yeah, I mean, when we think about it, we got Jordan, we got Gaten, we got Justin, we've got Kevin, we've got Alex Newell and Alex Grayson. Yeah. I don't know, it must be nice to be Alex Newell. To be like whatever category I, I, I go in, I'm going to knock a bitch out. But that just like, I mean, I.

[B]

Don'T know, but power as we're transitioning into to best feature at featured Actress. I mean, if you're going up against Bonnie Milligan, I say good luck.

[C]

Yeah.

[A]

Yeah. No, I think I, I don't like to make bold predictions about winners just yet, honestly. Vicky and Kimberly in general are the only two that I feel very confident in. But I am a little of the mind frame of like it. Having just seen Kimberly again a few weeks ago and watching like a Thursday night crowd's reaction to her at like the middle of March, I was like, I think it's hers. I, I really think it's hers.

[B]

Yeah, I mean like I said, or you know, we've said a Million times. We haven't seen everything yet, so it's. It's truly anybody's game. But, like, as far as, like, my personal tastes and preferences, I wish everybody else a lot of luck.

[A]

Yeah. I saw someone post the other day. They're like, well, Bonnie just feels like she's in a different show. She's so over the top. To which I say, what show did you watch? Because the character actually is sort of over the top on paper. But Bonnie plays her very deadpan and low key, which I think is brilliant because it stays in the world of the show, even though the character is outlandish. And it actually makes the comedy better because she's saying crazy things like it's nothing. And I think that's genius the way she just goes, yeah, that's. She goes, so you're married? Widowed, actually. What? It's a long story. And it's. It's. So.

[B]

I was gonna say I met a nice guy at the dog track.

[A]

It's like.

[B]

Like being able to play that. Being able to play that straight is so good.

[A]

God, it's so good.

[B]

So good.

[A]

He was tall. He was Greek. He was.

[B]

You know what I loved? Can I geek for. For just half a second? About the. The beginning of the Kimberly Akivo cast album is somebody goes, looks like I Oksana by Yule out there. And it's like my favorite thing.

[C]

As all the show choir kids are shuffling.

[B]

I know exactly what year it is. I know exactly where they are. Like, it's just like. Like, that line alone sets the entire setting. It does so much work. And I don't know whose idea that was, but bravo to them. That's my little Kimberly Akimbo geek out.

[A]

Yeah. Feature actors. We have Bonnie, we have Ali Mozzie as well, who I think if is not necessarily guaranteed a nomination, is a very strong contender to get nominated.

[B]

She's really. Yeah.

[A]

He takes a role that is so easy to hate and makes her not super hateable, in my opinion. I would say.

[B]

Grounded.

[A]

Yeah. Natasha. Yvette Williams in Some Like It Hot is a possibility for sure. Yeah. Both Melanie Labert and Betsy Wolf and Juliet are possibilities.

[B]

Say Betsy Wolf. Yeah.

[A]

For me, like, I found Melanie a little more engaging than Betsy, but that's just sort of where my tastes lie in terms of performance styles. But I. But I also recognize that Betsy's performance is something that Tony nominators like. It's sort of. It's a similar vibe to Bonnie and. And Jewel and Kimberly. I just think that Bonnie's performance is Fits her show better. But they are. They are similar in terms of, like, how they are approaching the comedy.

[B]

Yeah, she's taking a big. Betsy Wolf's taking a big swing, I think, with what she's going for in Aunt Juliet, which I really appreciate. Like.

[A]

Yeah, totally.

[B]

We saw it in. In London as well, on our honeymoon, sort of on a whim, which was very cool. So to have seen both, I guess, versions, putting quotes for people who are listening, um, to see the different choices being made was a lot of fun, and it made me really appreciate what she's doing with the role. It's like this kind of like Melissa Viasen, your.

[C]

What's the Maria Bamford?

[B]

Maria. Yeah, Maria Bamford. Like, dry. It's fun. I guess I've never seen it to my knowledge, like, in a musical before, like that kind of super contemporary dry.

[C]

Like, musical theater jokes can get pretty hokey, but when approached from that direction, it's. It feels like your friend doing it. It feels more.

[B]

I guess what I'm trying to say is, like, it's special and different enough that I think it might warrant a nomination just because there's nothing else like it happening.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

My knowledge.

[A]

I know there was a lot of talk of Carolee Carmelo and Bad Cinderella after watching it. I don't see it happening. Even though she has a history of getting nominated for shows that people don't necessarily like. So it could happen.

[B]

Yeah. It's kind of her thing.

[A]

It is. It's very much her thing. Sadly, I do not see Robin Herder getting nominated only because Beautiful Noise is a beautiful waste of Robin Herder, though. I do. I. I love her dearly. Trying to think, does Emily Skinner have anything that could get her in there for New York, New York? Maybe.

[C]

I think only because the category has so much, it is more competitive in other shows.

[B]

I don't think so.

[A]

Yeah. Yeah.

[B]

At least not. Not right now. Thinking about how stacked it is.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

Not for lack of, like, being wonderful. Just. It's just so competitive.

[A]

Yeah.

[C]

New York, New York, and Robin Herder with. With Clyde Alves. I think he's given some wonderful stuff in New York, New York, but, you know, for featured and.

[A]

But it's the kind of thing that.

[C]

You'Re like, I wish that. I wish that there were. You don't want to wish for less opportunities for other people getting nominated for their work. But you're like, I really. I love what you were doing. You found a moment out of nothing.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

You've like, yeah, he's wonderful. Yeah. Yeah. I'M looking forward to New York, New York. I. I look forward to making bolder predictions once I've seen it, but I will. I feel confident with musical design categories, orchestrations and choreography at the moment with for myself. Let us go into some plays for a bit. We. We. We did some design and some other elements for plays. We haven't really gone into other categories. We also haven't really done direction of a musical. Let's do leading actor in a play. I feel like that's a competitive category. We haven't. We. Which we like mentioned. We haven't gone into.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

For this. We have the options that we have to. That we could nominate. We have Jefferson Mason, Christmas Carol, Wendell Pierce and death salesman. Stephen McKinley Henderson. I think. Yeah, I do think Wendell will win. That's a role that tends to do it and he was quite good. Steven McKinley Henderson for between Riverside and Crazy is an option. Corey Hawkins. And I'm forgetting the name of the other actor and Top Dog, Underdog. Although I do think Corey Hawkins is the more likely one to get nominated. He was just so good in that. And then. Is there. There is a lead role in Fat Ham? Yes. There's someone who we would probably say is like the male lead.

[B]

Yeah, the Hamlet equivalent.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

I think that. I think it warrants a nomination. The plays. It's hard for me with the plays because the majority of them we have not seen. So it's kind of just like going off of what we've heard from other people. Leopoldstadt. Is that all featured? Is there like a lead lead in Leopoldstadt?

[A]

David Krumel, I would say is the closest thing that play has to Elite. Although David's not in it anymore. He just left, correct?

[B]

He just left.

[A]

Yeah. But I believe they deemed his role featured because. Sure, his. He stops playing that role about.

[B]

I need.

[A]

Sorry. Someone keeps texting me. I should put my phone on. Do not disturb. But I'm too lazy.

[B]

The.

[A]

His role stops being a thing about an hour into it. So. Yeah, I don't think that they have a leading actor possibility there, but if they do. Hold on, let me. Hold on. Wait, hold on. Let me go back up to this eligibility page. The other thing is the Tonys have not met again since like January about eligibility.

[B]

And so much has happened.

[A]

So much has happened. Oh, Denzel Washington's son. I keep forgetting his name. He's going to be eligible.

[B]

Oh, gosh. For the piano lesson.

[A]

Yeah. Although, I mean, if I'm being honest, I don't necessarily see that happening just because the Category is so stacked, and I found his performance to kind of be the least defined in the show. I think that Samuel L. Jackson and Danielle Brooks will get in for featured, you know, so it looks like Dave Krumholtz is. Isn't featured for Leopoldstadt. So. Yeah. Wendell Pierce, Stephen McKinley Henderson, Jefferson Mays, Sean Hayes. Corey Hawkins.

[C]

I was gonna say.

[A]

Yeah, Sean. Sean Hayes actually might prove a threat in a play that I have not seen yet. Good night, Oscar. But the. But the buzz from out of town in Chicago is that he is the play. And, like, the only reason it's transferring is because he is just so good.

[B]

I have an aunt in Chicago who is coming to visit us specifically, so she can see it again. So if that tells you anything that is very exciting. Could be biased. Hi, Kate. She's gonna love that. But, yes, she's going to. She's going to visit us at the end of April so we can all go see it. So I don't know. That's. That's a probably a good sign.

[A]

Yeah. I am really interested in Sean Hayes.

[C]

And Good night, Oscar. Because Oscar Levant is just a complicated, interesting person and inherently musical, but, like, always kind of felt like he was like, I don't really want to do musical things, which was very compelling to watch. Like, don't make me sing in Brigadoon. He's Jeff, where, like, Tommy is so romantic and this outgoing Gene Kelly type. And then there's Oscar Levant. Like, is this a musical? And it's. It's so fun. And I think Sean Hayes is, in addition to his ability to play piano like Oscar Levant is, it's. It's a kind of perfect storm of qualities coming together.

[A]

Yeah, I guess a lot of things will be determined with another eligibility ruling. I don't know how the nominating committee is going to feel about Danny Burstein and Nathan Lane in Pictures from Home. Right, sure.

[B]

Yeah. Yeah.

[A]

Which is not the most memorable play. It's perfectly fine. Very green. It's very green show.

[B]

Very green. I really enjoy. I really enjoyed it. But, yes, I. I agree with you that, like, unless you're sort of being reminded of it, it's kind of very easy to fade in your memory.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

Like a picture from home.

[C]

Call your mom.

[A]

Call your mom. Pepperidge font remembers. It's. God. Yeah. No, it's. I feel like if anything from that show is going to get nominated, it's Nathan Lane. It's just like, in what category? Featured or lead? Who knows? Who knows? I go into feature. I go into actress in a play. But, like, we have five possibilities. And so that means it's gonna be four nominees and we. It's Audra, it's Jody, it's Laura Linney, and Who's the other one? Oh, now I'm gonna sound like an. Because it's. I feel. I feel like it's somebody who is considered a front runner. Hold on.

[C]

Darren D. Clark.

[A]

Oh, no, no, she's. She's in. Featured in feature.

[B]

Sure.

[A]

Yeah. And is probably gonna win just because that category is odd. Although, again, we also don't know the situation with Thanksgiving play. If, like, that's all just considered everyone's featured, or one might be considered a lead, one might be considered something else. Someone was considered. Oh, Jessica. Jessica Chastain.

[B]

Of course. Of course.

[A]

You know that chestnut.

[B]

Very casual.

[A]

Casually forgetting about Jessica Chastain. Yeah, yeah, I. I see that. In two weeks, which, you know, I think we're looking at that. Death of a Salesman and Top Dog, Underdog for revival of a play with probably Doll's House winning just because it'll be running. Yeah. Although revival of a play is sort of like the one category where voters don't have an issue. Voting for the closed show. Doesn't happen all the time, but it does sometimes happen, which is more than we can say for any of the other categories, I guess, typically, too.

[B]

Because A Doll's House has a closing date and it's probably already selling pretty well.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

If you're looking at it from that perspective, it's like, does it need it? Not necessarily.

[A]

Yeah. Yeah, no, agreed. It's the. Yeah. With revival of a play, half the time they're closed, half the time they're limited, and they're closing after the Tonys anyway. So it's like, we don't have to worry about what needs the boost. We can just go with what we like or what we remember. And it's weird because this year voters can vote in the category if they've missed one nominee.

[B]

Yeah. Isn't that a wild twist of events?

[A]

Yeah. Well, I feel like that was their way of trying to. Course. Correct. From last year. But that was because that. What, though. What happened last year was there were certain nominations that happened because not the entire nominating committee couldn't get together because not everyone saw all the potential nominees due to Covid. And so, like, I think half of the size of the committee was able to nominate, which is why we got like, I don't want to be that bitch. But, like, that's why Paradise Work swooped in with 10 nominations because like not the whole group was able to vote. And maybe it still would have had that happen that way if the whole group had come in, but we'll never know. And it felt like the Tonys are now trying to course correct. I'm like, but shouldn't that, shouldn't you course correct for the nominators, not the voters. But we digress. It's okay. Well, we didn't totally finish featured actress. We haven't. Although I guess there wasn't much else to say. Ruthie and Miles and Sweeney, I would definitely say is sure. Yeah. Never count out Ruthie. If we learned anything from her win for King and I. You don't count out Ruthie and Miles. I sent Natasha Yvette Williams. I know there's talk of Philip ISU and just Julia Lester and into the woods again. I don't see it happening. But if I had my druthers, I would put in Julia, who I thought was so good on stage.

[B]

Yeah, she was wonderful. Yeah, it was her debut. Yeah.

[A]

It was her Broadway debut. Yeah.

[B]

And she just, that's incredible.

[A]

Yeah, she just nailed it, in my opinion. And I, I, she, she ate.

[B]

In every sense of the word.

[A]

She did. She ate. She ate all the buns and all the stage and all the, all the quality.

[B]

Also, I learned about gay lingo the other day. So that's, that's me.

[A]

Yeah, you're learning about how to be an ally.

[B]

Big week. Big week for me.

[A]

Big week for you. Featured actress in the play is actually interesting me for a quick second I just realized this because, because it's. Because for a while it seemed kind of light, right? It was like, okay, we got Sharon D. Clark and Crystal Lucas Perry and I don't know who knows who's going to win. But again, I hear really good things about Thanksgiving play and if Darcy Carden and Katie Finneran are both considered featured that up. And then I don't know if you've seen Peter Pan goes wrong yet, but not yet. Oh, what's her name? Nancy Zamit. She, she does trifecta duty in the show. So, like, you know, it's play that goes wrong. It's a perform amateur performing troupe doing a play and her character triples as Mrs. Darling, Liza the maid and Tinkerbell. And so there's like a running joke in Act 1 of like when they're in the darling nursery, she always has to like go on and on and on and off as Liza, Mrs. Darling. And the costume changes she has to do. It's very impressive. And then when she's Tinkerbell, she has to play Tinkerbell silently. And her, like, interpretation of Tinkerbell is sort of like modern hip hop, but she's, you know, a British lady, so she's not good at it. And so she's always like, so, like, tink. Where did they go? And she's like. And it's just. I can't explain it. It's really good physical comedy. And it's one of those things where, like, I don't think she'll actually get nominated, but I wouldn't be surprised if she did. You know, sure enough, people are like, you know who I really found fun? Nancy's Amit. Like, it's. I'm now called.

[B]

It is a year that's desperate for fun. It's desperate for fun.

[A]

And I call it the Anthony Hopkins effect. Where, like, when Anthony Hopkins won his second Oscar for the Father, it came out of the fact that a lot of voters. And I had a. I had a sense that it could have happened because I was reading a lot of Oscar pundits being like, it's Chadwick Boseman. But I've been talking to a lot of voters who. Who have said that Anthony Hopkins actually gave their favorite performance of the year. I'm like, oh, boy. If enough voters feel that way and they think Chadwick has it in the bag, they're just gonna vote for Anthony and Anthony might win.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

And that in the positive way. Although Anthony is wonderful in the Father, I don't want to begrudge him that win, like, in a positive way. Nominators could be like, well, I don't know. Like, I feel like everyone's gonna vote for, like, the three ladies of Ain't no Mo. Like, they're all great, but I. Like, I really did love Nancy, and fuck it, I'll put down Nancy. What. What harm could it do? And then before we know, like, Nancy Zamit has gone on to win a Tony Award.

[B]

Stranger things have happened.

[C]

Did Ralph Nader win Best featured Actress in a play?

[B]

Not Ralph Nader.

[A]

Let's. I. Okay, I'm gonna do one last category. Revival of a musical. I think it's. We got ourselves Camelot, Sweeney Parade, and Into the woods. Those are the four, because then we have 1776 and Danson. So it's immediately four. Could be a five if there's enough votes. But I think it's those four. Director of a musical. Let's get jiggy with it. I think we've got. I think we've got two locks right now we've got Jessica Stone for Kimberly, and we've got Michael Arden for Parade. I was talking to a pundit from Gold Derby the other day, and he's. And he said that he thinks that Michael Arden actually is going to get nominated for Christmas Carol and could win for that. To which I said, I doubt it. I think that's probably going to be Leopoldstadt. But he still could get nominated for Christmas Carol. I think Michael Arden could probably win for Parade, but I think those are our two front runners in terms of directing of a musical. That leaves us with three options.

[C]

Well, if Michael Arden is nominated in two categories, that also kind of means that voters would probably think of him more for one and definitely vote for him in at least one category.

[A]

Yeah. And it's happened before.

[B]

Or it could be like Jeremy Pope.

[A]

The la.

[B]

I mean, you're nominated twice and it kind.

[A]

It kind of goes against you. There's. And I know there have been directors who've been nominated for two shows in the past. The only one I can think of most recently, and I know there's one that was more recent, this. But Michael Blakemore in 2000 was nominated for director of a musical for Kiss Me Kate and director of a play for Copenhagen. And I think he actually won both. Let me look that up, because I don't want to say he did.

[C]

I'm pretty sure he did.

[A]

Yeah. I mean, first of all, I don't think anyone's ever done that since. And. Oh, I think Joe Mantello was nominated for Assassins and Glengarry Glen Ross in the same year. Is that correct? I mean, it would make sense.

[C]

There's some. There's some stat like it's the same year or the following year. I feel like Susan Stroman is involved in the. The numbers of that, too, with, you know, the Music man and Contact. Or she. Maybe she was nominated.

[A]

She was nominated for both.

[C]

I can't remember.

[A]

I think she was nominated for both, but she lost to Blakemore. Hold on. Did. Was. Okay. No. Yeah. Joe Mantello was not one for Assassins. He won for Take me out in 2003 and then one for assassins in 2004 and then was nominated. Yeah. Was nominated for Glengarry Glen Ross the year after that. I would have loved it if Joe was nominated twice in that year. It would make sense. I call him Big Dick Joe because he's just so great.

[B]

But, yeah, I think Michael, Joe from Hannibal. Moe.

[A]

Big, Big Dick Joe from Hannibal, Mo. That is how I view John Mantello. And I hope he hears that one day because someone needs to tell him. But, yeah, I think Blake Moore is the only person who's won twice in the same year. But it's definitely possible to get nominated and win for one.

[B]

And I wouldn't be surprised.

[A]

Yeah, Yeah, I wouldn't be surprised. I think Arden's best shot isn't. Is for Parade. But that said, we have Jessica Stone, we got Michael Arden, and let's. Let's make some bold three more choices for this, and then we'll close out our predictions for today. We are other possibilities that we can make choices from Stro. Stro for New York. New York. And you said yourself, Rachel, that she has seen transitions that would make hell Prince.

[B]

Kind of.

[A]

Yeah. She said, oh, Hal, I see what you did in Phantom. Let me. Let me peg you. She said that Susan Stroman is a top for sure.

[B]

Oh, yeah. No major topic obvious. You don't. You don't get to where she is without being a top. You know what I mean?

[A]

That's feminism. So.

[B]

Yes. Oh, okay. I'll write that down. I'll add it to the list.

[C]

Stroman's a top, and she loves to wear a big black hat.

[B]

Oh, my God.

[A]

Casey Nichola and some like in Hot is an option cover the. I. I keep forgetting the. The Bob Fosse for dancing.

[B]

I feel like. I feel like Casey Nicola will be nominated from the splashiness of him going into the show last week.

[A]

Oh, yeah, that was.

[B]

I don't know why. You know what I mean? Like, that kind of. That kind of goodwill. Yeah. And press and like, I don't know, getting. I. I don't know. I feel like that's the kind of thing that, like, the voters kind of love. I don't know.

[A]

Well, so we've got four revivals that, you know, two, Three have now been, like, critically deemed successful. And we're waiting on Camelot, but we have into the Woods, Sweeney Parade, and Camelot. Yeah. And I feel like. Haven't seen her yet. But, you know, considering that it's already financially successful, it's not been critically deemed worthy. I feel like Tommy Kail will probably get a nomination for that.

[B]

Yeah, I agree with you.

[A]

Yeah. And Bart, Sharon, Camelot. I mean, again, I hear good things. And he is very much well liked by Tony Nominators, by the community in general. Lincoln Center Theater has a lot of goodwill in the community because they employ a lot of people with big, lavish productions. And Lear for Into the Woods. I know a lot of people like her to get in there. She might. And I hate to. This is where I actually will sound like a misogynist. I feel like it might be for the sake of filling it out with not so many men.

[B]

Sure.

[A]

But again, her show closed a while ago, and I'm not going to spill actual tea. But some of the goodwill she got from into the woods after the bad will she got from the first half of her encore's run, some of that goodwill from into the woods is starting to run a little sour with people with some other endeavors she's recently had. Not. Not my place is filty. I don't want to speak out of school. I will just say that, like, the community is not 1000% behind her, so I would not be surprised if she got left out. But she. She could still get be put in there.

[B]

I think too, maybe with how minimalist the End of the woods was, and considering that it's closed, I feel like it's got a lot against it in terms of a nomination.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

Outside of, like, the politics of all of it.

[A]

Yeah. And I only bring in the politics to kind of counter the personal opinion stuff. Right. Because, like, we could sit here with five into the woods fan kids and be like, how dare you? They're going to get nominated for everything and sweep. Like, okay, sure, sure, Jan. That's what you want. But yeah, one thing about running a.

[B]

Meme account is, like, we're very used to that.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

That's the constant.

[A]

Yeah. Oh, I'm sure. Absolutely. I mean, that's by posting reviews where I try really hard to, like, talk about what I saw and how it affected me. People will DM me like, well, I liked it. Or like, oh, I hated it. I'm like, okay, cool. I'm so glad that you realize how art works. Everybody.

[B]

You know what it is? Everybody just wants to be heard. That's really it. At the end of the day, I.

[A]

Feel like there's a song lyric like that everybody wants to be heard. Or maybe I'm just thinking of Everybody. Everybody.

[B]

I think you're thinking of Everybody Wants to be a Cat, which is very close, but not the same.

[A]

I'm combining every really close to be a cat with Everybody's got to be somewhere. And it's just now becoming Everybody wants to be heard.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

But maybe.

[B]

And when you combine those things, it's actually the score for Cats. So really, really good work.

[A]

I want to remind my listeners that the stage version of Cats was very smart to have Grizabella rise to the heavyside layer in a tire because, you know, what doesn't float in real life is a tire. That's how you know there's actual magic going on. And they're not just sending her off to her doom. Whereas the movie is so literal, and they have to maneuver a hot air balloon to push her up into the sky. And so all we're sitting there going, she is going to fall into the Atlantic and be among the many other skeletons of dead cats while the Jellicles sit in, you know, outside the National Gallery. And they're like, we did it. We did it, Jo. She went off to heaven. And we're also gonna be like, you killed her. You killed Grizabella. Oh, my God. Just saying, what a trip. What a dream.

[C]

One day, old Deuteronomy will answer for his cries.

[A]

Oh, God. Wait, so wait, sorry. The original musicals, we have, yes. Julia, Cambo, and Juliet shucked Some Like It Hot, New York, New York. That's five. And I think all possibilities of nominations, revivals, Camelot, into the Woods, Sweeney and Parade. So that's nine if we're. If we have to go down to five. We. We all are sort of in agreement on Thomas Kale, Jessica Stone, and Michael Arden. Do we feel like Stroman's transitions that make the Dead Hell Prince are gonna help put that in there strong enough?

[C]

Yeah, yeah, I think she's in there.

[B]

I think so. And. And maybe even as a feminist, what you were saying earlier, to get a woman in there is probably pretty important. Come back. He's left the screen.

[A]

I'm just gonna call this episode as a Feminist.

[B]

To Rachel Joyce because of feminist. Yikes.

[A]

I'm sorry. I can't wait to have you guys back for another episode to talk about, like, a show show, because this is. This is fun. I like talking about feminism.

[B]

Oh, I'm so glad, because I was really worried because we really do all. All we do all day long is just go on tangents. And I'm like, oh, man, I don't know how this is going to go, because redirecting us back is sometimes a real chore. So thank you for dealing with us.

[A]

I. Tangents. I don't know her, but I will say we've been relatively on topic most of this time. I'm very proud of us. We did it.

[B]

Well, you're doing a great job with steering us back, so we did it.

[A]

Thank you. Oh, I do also want to say, in terms of design, I think Peter Pan Goes Wrong will probably get in there in the design categories as well. Lighting, scenic, costume, everything else. Everything else I'm not entirely sure about, but I think that Life of Pie and Christmas Carol are going to be in all three of those categories. And. Oh, and sound. And sound. All four. Especially if the puppets get deemed part of one of the designs. So we have Kale. Kale, Stroh, Stone Arden. Fifth slot. We have Lear. We have Nicola Casey. You think it's Casey for something hot? Is that where. Is that the final answer? Right.

[B]

I don't. We haven't seen it. I don't know.

[A]

Michael Arden is a death, I think.

[B]

And we haven't seen Shucked.

[A]

Yeah. And I haven't seen Camelot or Shucked. I think.

[B]

Yeah, yeah.

[A]

And also, I wonder, will Camelot be eligible for book? Because I know Sorkin has done a lot of work on it, but, like, is enough of the original book going to be in there that they're going to say, nah? Or are they going to be like, no, you. You pulled a Douglas Carter bean. You get to be eligible for book.

[B]

He would like it.

[A]

Oh, I know he would like it to be Aaron Sorkin, clearly. Well, because then whatever.

[C]

Collaboration with Alan J. Lerner.

[A]

I also want to say this as we continue on with nominations for the next coming weeks, if Aaron Sorkin is eligible for book, and if he does get nominated, whatever best musical nominee he takes out for best book is officially not going to win Best Musical. And you want to know why?

[B]

Yeah.

[C]

Yeah.

[A]

There has never been a Best Musical winner that didn't get nominated for book if they were eligible. The only times they. That hasn't happened has been for Fosse, Jerome Robbins, Broadway, and Amus Behaven. But they weren't eligible. Even Contact was eligible. They got nominated. It's how I knew six wasn't going to win, because when they didn't get booked, I was like, ooh, they're done. And I had so many gays. Yeah. Rachel, Will. I had so many gays who told me to not count it out. It could happen. I said, I think if Strange Loop has any competition, it's mj. And I was so close.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

Yeah. So just. I'm letting all the listeners know if you. When whatever doesn't get nominated for Best book and gets nominated for Best Musical, do not put money on it to win because you'll win.

[B]

What a. What a wonderful, like, life. Not life hack. What am I trying to say?

[C]

Like, that's life changing.

[B]

Yeah, that's. That's such a. A great insight that I'd never considered, but now I'll never. I'll Never look at anything the same Changed my life. First feminism and now this.

[C]

Someone said to us the other day, like, no one goes to musicals for the book. And I was. I. I quietly was like, what?

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

What a weird take.

[A]

You mean the rest of the show?

[B]

This is all off the record, right? This is not. This is not being recorded, is it?

[A]

To quote Bianca Del Rio, you've been filming this. So fifth person, I'm gonna go on a limb and I'm gonna say Bart Sher for Camelot. Just because Bart Sher and Lincoln Center Theater, it tends to happen. Although I think Casey could absolutely get in there. Possibly even the director of and Juliet. You know, we love a turntable. Namin.

[B]

Yeah, yeah, yeah.

[A]

All right.

[B]

And we do.

[A]

All right, we gotta wrap things up because we had said that we had a deadline tonight and we do. It's. We gotta get out of here. Rachel. Will, where can people find you if you want them to find you?

[B]

We are at the theater lovers. So it's T H e underscore.

[C]

T H E A T E R underscore L O V E R S.

[B]

And that is on both Instagram and TikTok. While TikTok still exists and we are on Twitter.

[C]

It is theater underscore lovers could not fit that the in there.

[B]

But we're most active on Instagram so find us on IG and you can sort of branch out to all the other platforms from there.

[A]

Yeah, yeah, they fun. And if you want to find me, I'm on Instagram only at Matt Copley usual spelling. If you like the podcast, give us a nice 5 star rating or a little review. We just got a new one and I'm going to take five seconds to read it out because I always say that I will cue the light in The Piazza Overture 5 stars 66 degrees of Janine Tesori Loving the current Big Move series and I am endlessly impressed with your Six Degrees game. I am pretty decent at that with movies and tv. But as much as I love theater, I do unfortunately tend to fall short when it comes to the creative teams and ensemble members. For the Chorus Line episode, you were on the right track with Kelly Bishop because Janita Story wrote in the episode the Musical in the episode of the Netflix revival of Gilmore Girls, that fake musical that some Foster does. So there is that connection.

[B]

Oh my gosh.

[A]

Yeah. All right, well, thank. Thank you very much, New York City theater geek. I appreciate that very much. We close out every episode with a brawby diva. I'm trying to think who we should close out for us today. Judy Holiday. Will, do you want to do that?

[C]

Judy Holiday?

[B]

Absolutely.

[A]

She's feminism, right?

[B]

I wouldn't know.

[A]

Judy Holiday. Thank you so much for listening, guys. Thank you much. Will and Rachel, thank you for having us.

[B]

We really appreciate it.

[A]

Have a great rest of your week, everybody. Bye.

[B]

Tree stays. Present company. And while I'm sitting there, I hope that I find out just what Ella Peterson me is all about in that Shangrila of Lacey lingerie.