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Broadway Breakdown
2024 Tony Awards: Predicting the Winners (w/ The Theater Lovers)
02:33:32
Let's get it predicting
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Transcript1,183 lines
- [00:00]
A
Think of the prestige.
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B
Think of the respect. No, no, no.
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A
Think of the.
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B
Tony. Tony.
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A
Tony. Tony. Tony. Tony.
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B
Hello, all you theater lovers both out and proud and on the DL. And welcome back to Broadway Breakdown, a podcast discussing the history und legacy of American theater's most exclusive address, Broadway. I am your host, Matt Koplik, the least famous and most opinionated of all the Broadway podcast hosts. And with me today are friends of the pod. It's been a full year. They made their debut on this podcast. They were last year to talk about predictions for Tony nominations. Here they're talking predictions for Tony wins. Please welcome Will and Rachel Anderson, AKA the theater lovers.
- [00:45]
A
Hi, guys. It's been too long.
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B
It has been too long.
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A
It's been too long.
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B
Thank you for having us back. When I was doing regular episodes, like, with show deep dives, I kept trying to think of, like, what show I could have either both of you or separately on, and no shows, like, were interesting enough for me. I was like, no, no, no. I need. I need something really ballsy.
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A
Well, the interesting thing about us is we don't. We just pretend to know. So that would have been a disaster.
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B
I don't think anyone buys that your. Your deep dives are so deep and so divey on Instagram that there's no way you just heard of it.
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A
Like, you know, I don't know. Wikipedia is a powerful thing. Yeah, I'm teasing. I'm teasing. No, yeah, we should definitely do that, though. That would be a lot of fun.
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B
Yeah, yeah, no, that's. That's. That's definitely part three. This is part two. We're. We're leading you guys in. First it was nominations get your feet wet. And now it's winners getting you all wet. And then.
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C
I'm soaked.
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B
You're so. I am so soaked. And then the third one is just drowning you finally.
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C
Waterboard for elephants.
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B
Exactly. Three tickets to Challengers, please.
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A
Oh, my God. That would work, actually.
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B
So you guys famously have not seen everything this season.
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A
Like, famously. Yeah, yeah, yeah. As same as last year. Yeah. So we're gonna fake it till we make it.
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C
Well, you know what? I'll say. This is. This makes us as qualified as a lot of the Tony voters this season.
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B
Oh, no, this is true.
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C
That's such a weird rule.
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A
Yeah, it is. Well, the. Well, the rule.
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B
They, they. The article that talked about that rule about, oh, you don't have to see everything got taken down because the American Theatre Wing and Tony committee couldn't confirm that. And so I don't know if it's exactly what they said. Because it. I think it was if. It might be something along the lines of if you go see a show and a performer who's nominated is out, you don't have to reschedule to see them again. Just like, don't vote for them. Which happened. I think that's become a new rule ever since COVID because the first Tony or post Covid, the Strange Loop year, a lot of people were out a lot because of. And it costs certain people Tony's because of that. Because. Because of the continuation of missing performances, Tony voters couldn't reschedule to see them again. So I think they're just sort of trying to figure out how to get ahead of that in the future.
- [03:09]
A
That makes sense.
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B
Yeah. Which, I mean, it sucks, but it's also. It's the. It's the name of the game. If you want to win that Tony, you gotta be in the theater for them to see you.
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A
Strange.
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B
I know, I know. A strange loop, which, listen, it. Obviously that's a very simplistic viewpoint, but it's just where I'm at right now with this season. I'm like, just at least on the musical side, I'm like, none of it's terribly great, so just show up and try to win.
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A
Do your best.
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B
On that note, Rachel and Will, let's just dive into it. Let's get our. Let's get this party started, shall we? Yeah. Why don't you. Why don't you give me a category that you feel relatively confident about?
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A
I'll let you pick first.
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C
Let's do leading actor in a musical.
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B
Fantastic.
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C
Yeah.
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B
Yeah. Who are our nominees?
- [03:58]
C
We have Brody Grant for the Outsiders. We have Jonathan Groff for Merrily We Roll Along. We have Dorian Harewood in the Notebook, Brian d' Arcy James in Days of Wine and Roses, and Eddie Redmayne in Cabaret at the Kit Kat Club.
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B
Have you seen all five of these nominees?
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C
We have.
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A
Not close, though.
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C
We've. We've seen all these Notebook days and Cabaret.
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A
Yeah. So we haven't seen the Outsiders.
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B
Okay. I don't think that would affect your. Your decision making on this category. Brody is very lovely in the Outsiders, but let's all be honest. He is not. He is the ingenue that is welcoming to the welcomes to the party. He's not really.
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A
Yeah. My understanding of, like, the buzz is that it's kind of between Jonathan Groff, Brian d' Arcy James, and Eddie Redmayne. Would you say that that's like your. Your Feeling of. Of like where things are in the radar. Yeah, radar is a good word.
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B
Interesting. I would vote for Brian and I think that Jonathan pretty much has this lockdown.
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A
I was like, is this like a kiss, marry, kill situation? It's like, I would vote for that.
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B
Absolutely. Well, I would, I would kiss Jonathan because he's wet. And then I would marry Brian. Eddie. But Eddie. Eddie's performance is so divisive and as is this production. And I know a lot of people who haven't enjoyed it. But also, he is by far the most famous one in this category.
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A
Yeah. And a previous Tony and Oscar winner.
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B
He is indeed. And this production, despite not getting great reviews, did get a good number of Tony nominations and it is a. It currently is an objective financial hit. They are making beaucoup money. Yeah, we'll see how long that lasts. But for right now, it's. Right now they are in the same boat as Merrily of like, oh, we are, you know, packed to the walls every night. But I think with Jonathan, it's just the narrative of the show, his narrative, the fact that it's successful, it's all just.
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A
I, I really loved him. He's my pick. But I just feel like after seeing him in Merrily and Merily is like near and dear to my heart forever and ever. Who else could play someone that unlikable, that charismatically, you know what I mean? I'm like, who else in the age range?
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B
Oh, age range.
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A
Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. Like who right now? Like.
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B
Yeah, I was gonna say Paul Rudd 10 years ago Would be my.
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A
Yeah, yeah, yeah, for sure. Paul Rudd. But it's like, it's like that special. It's so rare. And he walks the, the tightrope of it so perfectly and he can sing it and he's a great, like, you know what I mean? It's just like all the pieces are there. Yeah, it's Prestige Sondheim. It's like it, it's just.
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B
I have opinions about this Merily. I think overall it is a successful production. But I, because I am me and because the Internet is the Internet, I'm always like, I don't think it's a perfect production, everybody. And I don't like this narrative that they totally fixed it, but.
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A
Oh, yeah, no, I mean, there will never be like, you can't, you can't. Merrily. I think that's part of the fun of it though.
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B
Oh, sure. I think the, the parts of this production that make me most, that make me side eye the most are when they go really hardcore passionate, if that makes sense. Because I. I find Merrily to be a very cerebral musical. And so when they try to go for that, like, Fosca, Clara, Giorgio and Passion, like on your knees crying, I'm like, this isn't really this environment for this kind of performance.
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A
Sure.
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B
But. But that's just who I am in my life.
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A
Yeah, yeah. No, I know exactly what you're talking about.
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B
Yeah, yeah. It happens twice, actually. But there's the big one at the end of a specific musical number that might be quite famous for Bernadette Peters. But there's also another performance in the show that I don't think works, but that performance isn't nominated, so we can move on from that.
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A
Yeah, I know what you're talking about.
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B
So you're saying Jonathan Groff. You're predicting Jonathan Groff.
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A
That's for me. Yeah.
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C
I feel the same way. Also, on the idea of this production fixing Merrily, I feel like. Like, just as much as the show, like, may or may not be fixed, I think that we need to acknowledge how audiences have changed over time where, like, since 1981, the idea of playing with the order of a narrative has gotten much more popular. The.
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B
The.
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C
I think in the context of, like, the MCU and these, like, alternate timeline stories, that audiences aren't as shocked and confused and mad about being confused when they see something not chronologically.
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B
Yeah, I think that's absolutely accurate. With Merrily, it is a combination of what you said, the time jump, which we're far more used to and enjoy, really. We like seeing. Putting those pieces together. And then we as a Broadway audience just know now Merrily goes backwards.
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A
Like, we're.
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B
We got that.
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A
Yeah, we're not going cold.
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B
I think we are more used to Merrily now, and they have worked on the show in the last 40 years, so it's not like what opened at the Alvin Theater in 1981. We now all of a sudden like, oh, it's brilliant. And we never realized. It's like. No, no, no.
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A
They.
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B
They. They made it better.
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A
It was deeply bad.
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B
Yeah. Although my hot take is still that. I think Rich and Happy is better than that, Frank, and I wish that they had had the balls to keep it.
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A
Come on. Really?
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C
Like rich and Happy.
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A
Yes. I walk around the house singing it a lot.
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B
It's one of my favorite transitions rolling up, which they kind of still have for that Frank, but it's less cool.
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A
Yeah. There's like, a. Just a small handful of lyrics in that Frank, that I wish I could like pick up and put into Rich and Happy. But I'd rather be Rich and happy.
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B
Yeah. I just love how. I love how hilariously nasty Rich and Happy is. Those characters all suck so hard in.
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A
Richard, and I think they need to. They do.
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B
They really do.
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A
I think they need to.
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B
Yeah.
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A
Okay, I'm gonna. I'll. I'll transfer us to. In the same kind of vein, best performance by an actor in a leading role in a play. Okay, we'll knock them out back to back. So we have William William Jackson Harper and Uncle vanya. Leslie Odom Jr and Pearly Victorious, a non Confederate romp through the cotton patch. Lee of Schreiber Doubt, a parable. Jeremy Strong, an enemy of the people. How do you say his name? Michael.
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B
Michael Stuhlbarg Stuhlbard.
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A
Thank you. And Patriots, and I'm Leslie Odom Jr. All day long.
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B
I think it's ultimately between Leslie and Jeremy.
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A
Yeah.
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B
I'll be interested to see what happens. I. Three weeks ago, I would have told you that Jeremy Strong has this totally in the bag, but now that they've released the Pearly Victorious on PBS Pro Shot, which also hasn't gotten a total unanimous reception from people, but still, it is out there, so it's in the public consciousness. I think it's down to Leslie and Jeremy. This is actually a solid category. I. I. Michael in Patriots is absolutely wonderful. Jeremy is great. Leslie is great. William is fine in Uncle Vanya. That whole production is kind of a mishmash for me. And then Liv is fine. In doubt. But there's like, there's no one here where I go, really? Her. There are other categories where I have that for sure.
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A
Yeah. But, yeah, it's kind of the year of that.
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B
Yeah. Yeah. I'm gonna go with my gut here and say Jeremy in any people. Fair enough. If only because that show is still running and also objectively a hit, and it's not going to win revival. That's probably going to go to appropriate, and it is a way to give that revival something, because Jeremy is very much the face of it. But, I mean, I also. I don't know. I'm. I'm not saying that with 100% confidence. Raquel.
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A
He is the oldest boy.
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B
He is the oldest boy.
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A
It's like, no, you're not.
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B
Sarah snooks out that she goes, you're not.
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A
Yeah.
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B
They just always pretend about the other.
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A
So good. Yeah. So sad. Yeah. I don't know. I just. I loved Pearly so much that I'm. I'm Biased.
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B
Yeah, no, probably was delightful. I thought that Pearly was going to win revival back in October, and then appropriate. An Enemy of the People happened. I was like, well, now I don't know what to tell you.
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A
Yeah, well, it's. It's a good year for plays.
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B
That's.
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A
Which is wild.
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B
Yes, I've been very vocal about that. This year have kept me sane because they. They came to murder and boy, did they.
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A
Yeah. I just. The thing about not to harp on it, but like, the, the way that, like how quickly Leslie flies through that language and like, so musically it's like, it's another one where I'm like, who on earth could have done this except for him? And like, it's those performances where I'm like, yeah, it's you. Like, like, that's it. You take all the.
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B
Watching him in Pearly. This is such a weird thing to say. Harvey was like, I would love to see Leslie do a gender bent production of some Tennessee Williams play, because I want to hear him do Tennessee Williams, but I don't want to see his Stanley or his. What's his face I think is happy in Sweet Bird of Youth of Paul Newman role. Like, I want to see his Amanda in Glass Menasher. I want to see him go through that kind of dialogue.
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A
Yeah, yeah, yeah.
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C
The Hot Cat on the Hot Tin Roof.
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B
Yeah. Princess Cosmopolis, whatever face is in Sweeper. Just. He doesn't give me like daddy vibes. He gives me grand dame vibes and then starts to see him play all of these classic women of a certain age in Tennessee Williams plays.
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A
Yeah, yeah. I kind of love that.
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B
Yeah. And I'm sure he would love it. He's like, yeah, don't limit me. I'll do whatever.
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A
Yeah. He definitely seems down to clown. That's for sure.
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B
1,000% for sure.
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A
All right, my turn.
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B
Okay, so let us. I'm gonna, you know, I'm gonna do a total 180.
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A
Yeah, let's go.
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B
Let us look at. Okay. Best original score, music and or lyrics written for the theater. We have Days of Wine, UNT Roses by Adam Gatell, Here Lies Love by David Byrne and Fat Boy Slim, Stereophonic by Will Butler, Sufs by Shana Taub and the Outsideairs by Jamestown Revival and Justin Levine. Now, I'm going to start with what I would vote for and then tell you who I think it's down to. I would vote for Stereophonic Hot Take. I absolutely would.
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A
Yeah.
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B
I could actually give you my rankings of these scores in my personal opinion. But I'm not going to do that because I don't want to make enemies of as listeners today.
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C
You don't make an enemy of the people.
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B
I want to see an enemy of people. I don't want to make them an enemy.
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A
That's right.
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B
I think it's down to stereophonic and cephs. And I'll tell you why.
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A
Yeah, hit me.
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B
Because. And we'll get to this. As we get to bigger categories later, I think that stuff's outsiders. In Hell's Kitchen are our three candidates for best musical. Like, those are the ones that are duking it out. And they each have something going for them to win. And I don't see a world in which suffs wins musical without also winning book and score. Like, I. I feel like if stuff's sort of in musical, it, like, it.
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A
Would win three sweep.
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B
Yeah. It would win, like, three Tonys. And they would be the important ones. They would win musical book and score, and that would be their thing. Outsiders. I feel like if they're gonna win musical, they're gonna win book with that, not score. So I think it's really down to sus and stereophonic. And stereophonic. I think most people would like those songs more than the rest of these scores. But it's the question of can they bring themselves to vote for a play?
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A
Play, yeah.
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B
And they do it.
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A
It's. It's my same thought with Illinois, the musical category. It's like, can't. Can you. Can you cross the threshold?
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B
What are we doing? Listen.
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A
Nothing.
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B
No. No musical in that category hit me in the gut like Illinois did during Predatory Wasp of the Palisades is out to get us. I just sat there and I was like, oh, we just grabbed my heart and. And stomped on it completely. But we. But we'll get to her later.
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A
Yeah, she's waiting.
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C
Yeah, I. I do want to say I'm. I. With original score.
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B
The.
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C
The fact that, like, Here Lies Love is eligible as, like, as an original score despite existing in the same form since 2011 or 12.
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A
Yeah. Like over a decade.
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C
Maybe 13. And that compared to, like, Gutenberg, which, you know, both of these shows, it's their Broadway debut staging. And yet to have drawn the line in this confusing way. I find it is so.
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A
How they made that distinction. Sorry to go off on a tangent, but it is.
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B
There's never total rhyme or reason.
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A
Yeah.
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B
I've always described it with people. How the Tony's view revivals is how the Supreme Court views pornography. They can't define it, but they know one and they see one and I.
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C
It explains why the guy behind me was shaking so much.
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B
Stop.
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A
That's inappropriate.
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B
All these playbills on the. On the floor were just totally crunchy and ripped apart. I. Or the pages were stuck together.
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A
Oh, no.
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B
Anyone. Anyone know that episode of Friends? The pages are stuck together. Chandler. It. I think with Her Lies Love and Gutenberg. Ultimately what they decided on was this production of Heroize Love felt more like an extension of the previous productions. It was the same team and the. And the staging itself was incredibly similar to what was Off Broadway. If not. If mostly just expanded. Whereas Gutenberg was a new production and thus it. It was not a transfer, but a revival. Fair. Yeah. What people tend to go for with their reasoning is it's the classics rule of. Oh, well, once it's up for licensing, then you're done. It's. It's. It's a. It's a revival.
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A
That's an interesting thought.
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C
Yeah, I do like that perspective.
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B
That is definitely the most common theory for things. It doesn't always apply, but it probably applies 85% of the time.
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C
That's a good distinction.
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B
Yeah. But again, I. Without them making the decisions yet. When I saw Gutenberg and Heroize Love with both of them, I was like, yeah, that one's a revival. This one's an original. And I can't tell you why. I just feel it in my bones.
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A
It's just a feeling. Okay. Yeah, sorry.
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C
So I All. All that said, I. I've listened to the most of, you know, Here Lies Love. I've known for so long. Stereophonic. I've listened to constantly since it. Since the album dropped. But I do really, like in stuffs this. Like, there's this ascending, you know, all throughout the score. It's like this motif that isn't necessarily based on a melody. It's based on, like, a chord structural thing where it's just kind of constantly moving up, like the. The fifth of the chord moves up a half step and then we're in A. Like a minor 6. And music theory stuff aside, it feels like a musical encapsulation of progress that I thought was very cool. And all throughout the show, I was like, ooh, that's smart. And so I just kept thinking how smart it was the whole show.
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B
Yeah, I feel you. I. I think that Shayna is such a talented woman and so smart. I think that the score of Suss is probably stronger than the book, but that's a story for another day. I think of all these scores, it is the one that is the most musical theater. It is.
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A
Yeah, yeah. It has.
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B
It has, you know, a dramatic motor to it. It works to develop certain characters further. Other characters, maybe a little. They do a little less so of that. But it is the most successful of the quote, unquote, musical theater scores to me, which is why I think it's between that and Stereophonic. I think Stereophonic is the nominee overall, that is the most successful doing what it's doing. I think if Her Lies Love were still running, they would have a good shot, if only because it is 90 minutes of non stop music and it is a good score. Yeah, but it's not.
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A
I still listen to it all the time.
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B
Yeah, but it's not the kind of beloved score that, say, Bridges or Parade were when they were closed shows and nominated and. Yeah, yeah, and. And didn't really stick out above the rest is like, the clear. Not front runner, but, like, the beloved nominee. Like, when Bridges won, it wasn't a foregone conclusion because there were other nominated scores that were still running. But Bridges was the one that everyone's like. But, like, come on, that one's just so good.
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C
It felt like a complete artistic idea that was like. It had your heart.
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B
Exactly. And I feel like people don't feel that way with your life's love. They like it, they enjoy it, but no one's like, come on, that's.
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A
Yeah, that's the one. I feel like people would be angry if it won, which would be sad.
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C
Where the experience kind of upstaged the score and the score is already so good.
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B
Yeah. I wish people would get mad about people or things winning because they didn't think it was very good and not because of political reasons. I'm like, can you just be like, I didn't want that scored one because I thought it was bad. Like, there are some things here that I would be mad at if they won because I just don't think they're good.
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A
Yeah. Can we talk about the trend now of, like, people being upset about things because of job loss? Like. Like, it's. It would be unfair for them to win because then it puts other people's jobs in jeopardy. And it's like.
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B
Love to win because they didn't have live musicians.
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A
Yeah. Oh, that. Yeah, that was. I forgot.
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B
Wow.
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C
It's been season.
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A
My God.
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B
Yeah. Remember those two weeks when everyone was mad at Here Lies Love?
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A
They sure were.
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C
I was so disappointed in David Byrne. Like, he said something that just, like, hurt my feelings. I was like, no, David Byrne, you're smarter than this.
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A
No, you're, you're.
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B
And you're kinder than this. Like, you're. You're known for being such an empathetic dude.
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C
You ride a bike everywhere.
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B
Well, so someone said this that I fully agree with and I kind of co opted it, which was like, Broadway is the only ecosystem where the loss of jobs then gives birth to new jobs.
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A
Yeah.
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B
And like, there's no other market in the world that that is like that outside of maybe restaurants. But like with Broadway, one show closes, another show opens. And so when people go, oh, well, you shouldn't want that show to close because people lose their jobs, I'm like, yeah, then another hundred people are gonna gain jobs from the next show that comes in. It's. It sucks. You never want people to be out of work or wanting for money. But you also can't handicap your negative or positive opinions about a show.
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A
Yeah. Because my only thing is I just want stuff to run long enough so that everybody gets health insurance. And that America, that's.
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B
That does America.
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A
Yeah, that's America.
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B
Yeah. I don't. I don't know. I don't know if I want everyone in Hell's Kitchen to get health insurance.
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A
Oh, my God.
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C
Hell's Insurance.
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B
Hell's Insurance. I don't know. I don't love. I don't love stories that sent plot line that's basically statutory rape. I don't love that. But you know, they're gonna run till the end of the year.
- [23:20]
A
There's a lot of. There's a lot of problematic ex. That on Broadway right now. What's. What's that about?
- [23:27]
B
What's going problematic things on Broadway.
- [23:29]
A
Yeah. What is the season not problematic in the sense that, like, it's the other thing that I hate that people are like, this show can't run because of like, this is in it. And it's like, no, that's a plot. Like, those people get their comeuppance. So, like. Yeah, that's the point. No, it's not. We're not condoning this behavior.
- [23:46]
C
We can observe uncomfortable things without endorsing them. And like, that's just how we explore ideas on stage. It's a safe place because it's the stage.
- [23:57]
A
Yeah.
- [23:58]
B
I think this is a good moment to remind listeners and advertise for the series that I was doing up until this Tony Award sequence. Problematic question mark. The shows you're mad at and their possible redemption where me and a guest talk about a show that had backlash at some point and we discover if the show was deserving of said backlash. Or if everyone's just dumb and misunderstood it. And surprise, surprise, 95% of the time, the show is solid and people are just dumb. What it is, is people go, oh, this is problematic. And I go, is it problematic or are you just uncomfortable?
- [24:29]
A
Yeah, reactive. Yeah.
- [24:31]
B
And like, a lot of these shows are meant to make you uncomfortable. A lot of these shows have characters doing shitty things and as you said, getting a comeuppance or learning from it. Most stories are people making mistakes and then learning from the mistakes. And we're in a conflict in a story in this economy. Are you kidding me?
- [24:50]
A
Yeah, I can't afford.
- [24:53]
B
Was. What was it? There were some thing where. Oh, no, it was a fucking Little Mermaid remake that came out last year where people were going on about all the changes Disney was making and how it was actually for the better because they were making Ariel have more independence. I'm like, she already is independent. She's just 16 year old. She's a 16 year old Dum dum. So she uses her independence incorrectly, learns from it, grows up a little bit. But the movie, they're like, oh, well, we got to change that. We don't want people to get this take. And so we are raising a new generation of audiences that unless you say outright what your purpose of such and such is, they don't get it. They don't understand the nuance and the. And the messy humanity. I'm like, let's. I don't know, let's have them go out into the world for a year, experience how shitty everything can be and what you learn from it and then go watch a show and tell me how it's. How it's problematic.
- [25:46]
A
That's fair.
- [25:47]
C
Very matte in the fantastic. So it's like you need to get. You need to, like, see things and then be like, not for me. Getting hit with sticks in a monkey costume is not for me.
- [25:59]
B
Not in the Fantastics is, like, fun fact. The world not awesome. Hot take, hot take. And on that note, we have to take a quick break. Really?
- [26:09]
A
I beg to differ with you.
- [26:10]
B
How do you mean?
- [26:10]
A
You're the top. Yeah. You're an arrow color. You're the top. You're a Coolidge dollar. You're the nimble thread of the feet.
- [26:24]
B
And we're back. All right.
- [26:26]
A
You're so good at that.
- [26:27]
B
Thank you so much. So we've done lead actor in a musical. Leading actor in a play and score. He's on three. So let's.
- [26:33]
A
Sorry, we got no it's fine.
- [26:34]
B
I love this. Let's. But let's. I don't. I would love to do another four hour episode, but I don't think I.
- [26:39]
A
Was gonna say your first five hour podcast episode. And of course it's us.
- [26:44]
B
It would be you guys. But no, we're gonna, we're gonna keep going. Will you take us away with the next one? Oh, wait, did you guys actually end up saying what your, what your prediction was for score?
- [26:55]
C
Oh, I, I would go suffs is what I predict, but I, I do. Really. I, I. It makes it a hard decision because I love stereophonic and I love Here Lies love. That was my point.
- [27:05]
B
Got it.
- [27:07]
A
And I kind of feel like it'll be stereophonic, but I'm afraid to say it, but I guess this is me saying it. I think it's going to be stereophonic.
- [27:13]
B
Which, honestly, if, should it happen, I will be so happy. All right, Will, next category.
- [27:21]
C
Let's go. Oh, gosh. Do we want to do leading actress in a play?
- [27:27]
A
Let's do it.
- [27:29]
B
All right, Mother, here we go.
- [27:33]
C
Oh, I'm sorry, I thought you were about to say something about mother play, so I was like, okay, I'm gonna hold.
- [27:39]
B
Oh, we want, we want to talk about mother play. No, leading actress in a play, Will. Here we go.
- [27:43]
C
We have Betsy. I, I'm so sorry. If I put, if I pronounce the names Betsy. Item. Prayer for the French Republic. Jessica Lang. Mother play. Rachel McAdams. Mary Jane McAdam. Okay, gotcha, gotcha.
- [27:58]
B
Are you. Wait, Will, no.
- [27:59]
A
He's doing a Sarah Paulson.
- [28:01]
B
I don't, I don't like that.
- [28:02]
A
I don't like, I don't, I don't like it either. But here we are.
- [28:05]
B
You respect, you Respect Raquel.
- [28:10]
C
Raquel McAdams. Mary Jane. Sarah Paulson. Appropriate. Amy Ryan in Doubt. A parable. I love the, the story of Amy Ryan coming in and saving the day at Doubt. But I, I really loved Sarah Paulson. Inappropriate. I thought that she was just like. It's like watching. She just simmered the entire time. And you're like, this pot is going to boil over and everyone is going to get scalded. And the suspense of that was so much fun. Fun is quite the right word, but it was thrilling.
- [28:49]
B
I do think she is winning, and I would not be mad about that. My top two choices are her and Rachel for Mary Jane. And I had, I had Sarah Paulson as like my number one with a bullet for. Since I saw the show in, in December. And then I Saw Mary Jane and oh, boy, did Rachel McAdams go, oh, you thought you were going to be a whole person today. No, I'm tearing you apart. Just like ruining me, ruining me. But I do think it's ultimately Sarah, who is, as you said, she's. She's a boiling pot who just spills over and scalds everybody. This is a solid category. Betsy is wonderful in prayer for the French Republic. I'm so happy she got nominated. Amy did come in and save the day with Doubt. I wasn't a huge fan of this production, but it wasn't a bad production. It was just sort of fine. And then there's mother play. So, Rachel, next category.
- [29:42]
A
Oops. Let's do best actress in a leading role in a musical.
- [29:48]
B
Okay.
- [29:48]
A
Eden Espinosa. Lempicka. Malia. Joy Moon, Hell's Kitchen. Kelly o', Hara, Days of Wine and Roses. Marianne Plunkett, the Notebook. And Gail Is it Rankin.
- [29:58]
B
Rankin, rankin.
- [29:59]
A
Cabaret, the KitKat club. I'm biased in a. For a sad reason in that Marianne Plunkett played a person with Alzheimer's so accurately that it destroyed me. Yeah, I just. As somebody. So my grandmother had it for 10 years. I just had an aunt pass away of it back in February, and I have another aunt who is battling it right now. So it was. It's just. It couldn't hit closer to home, and she couldn't have done a better job portraying it in my mind. So like everybody else, I. It's not even close for me.
- [30:51]
B
Yeah, well, Marianne is who I would vote for. That. That is. That is what my vote goes towards.
- [30:56]
A
Yeah.
- [30:57]
B
The question is, do I think she'll get it? And. Yeah, I'm not sure that she will.
- [31:01]
A
I don't. I don't know that she will either, but that's. I can't. I can't in good conscience say anybody else.
- [31:09]
B
For me, I mean, I'm. If I had any influence with Tony voters, I would be like, hey, maybe don't think about, like, who sings the most in a musical and think about, like, who actually gave the performance that stuck with you. And this. This is a performance that fucking sticks with you. No matter what you think of the musical, she is absolutely the bleeding heart of it and just gets you in a way that. So if you do, it's. Honestly, it's my favorite performance in a musical this season. And she sings the least of any of the performances this season, which just goes to show you how good she is. Will, what would you vote for and.
- [31:43]
C
Who do you think I would vote Marianne Plunkett. I. I don't know. I. I didn't see Lempicka do me.
- [31:53]
B
To do a recreation of it for you, because I can.
- [31:55]
C
Oh, yeah, go for it.
- [31:56]
B
Fantastic. I need a wedding dress and a baby, and I can give you the first five minutes of the show. And then I'm gonna need a Madeline, a canvas, and a see through boostier. Then I can give you act two.
- [32:10]
C
This sounds like a Keenan and Kel cold open. Oh, here it goes.
- [32:18]
B
Ah, here it goes. Yeah. Yeah. Who loves orange soda?
- [32:23]
C
Cal as our Betsy tomorrow De la.
- [32:28]
B
Every time they would start their monologue and then, like, he didn't have an idea. He's like, meet me in the backyard with an X, Y and Z. Yeah, that's exactly it.
- [32:35]
A
That's crazy.
- [32:36]
B
Oh, my God.
- [32:36]
A
That's a crazy reference.
- [32:38]
B
Yep. I look forward to seeing that as a meme at some point on your account in the next week or two.
- [32:42]
A
I mean, now. Yeah, we'll tag you.
- [32:45]
B
Just the writing. The writing team of Lempicka, and it's Keno and Cal. Meet me. Meet me Mimi in the studio. Oh, my God, Mimi. I can find something. Meet me in the studio. With a Nazi flag and some glitter. It's like, ah, here it goes. But you're saying you hadn't seen Lempicka.
- [33:06]
C
Hadn't seen Lempicka.
- [33:07]
A
And we haven't seen Hell's Kitchen.
- [33:08]
B
Okay. I think ultimately, I think it's down to Malaya and Kelly.
- [33:15]
A
Yeah.
- [33:16]
C
I think Kelly was wonderful in. She had Days of Wine and Roses.
- [33:21]
B
I am very mixed on that musical, but I am not mixed on her and Brian, who really were. Yeah. And everyone agrees. Were. Were the best things about it. Yeah. It's really hard to win for a show when you're in a musical and it's closed. Yeah. Recency bias is much bigger with musicals and plays. That also was a musical that wasn't overwhelmingly loved. So it's. It's not like. I don't know. I'm trying to think of a musical in the last couple of years that closed that everybody loved earlier. Yes. Like the Inch of the woods revival last year. Close. But everyone really loved it.
- [33:53]
C
Sure. Yeah.
- [33:54]
B
You can make it. You can make a case for people campaigning for it. Even though none of them won, this wasn't the same. But I do wonder if she's so loved. She is. So. They both are. And I think if he's not gonna win, her winning is sort of like a win for the two of them in A way, because, you know, that she were to win, she would go up there and just like, half the speech would be about Brian, as well it should be. But I. I do think that she has got a good shot of sort of breaking that trend. But if we're going for someone who's currently in a show, Malaya is kind of set up for success here. She is the center of what is the most successful of financially of the best musical nominees. It has a critics pick. God bless. And, you know, it's a very. I wouldn't call it a meaty role. I don't think any role in that show is meaty, but it is a sizable role.
- [34:47]
A
Right.
- [34:48]
B
My biggest issues are. I don't know how many people are gonna like Hell's Kitchen. The. I think the book is objectively bad. Her character is just 80% narration. Every time a scene's happening, she turns to the audience and talks about the. The subtext. And I'm like, okay, well, you know, we could just let it simmer on its own and we can have interpretations.
- [35:09]
A
But no, tell me everything.
- [35:13]
B
Oh, well, yeah. I also call it Shoshana's luncheonette, because every three scenes, she's serving food at the table and then go, oh, someone hasn't left. Waitress. But she. Malaya. There's there for everything that I think could get Malaya the Tony. There are an same amount of things that I think couldn't. And the only caveat with Kelly is that her show closed. That's like the only real caveat. So I. I do think it's down to the two of them. Unless they. They split and. And Marianne comes in and runs to that stage. So.
- [35:49]
A
Good.
- [35:49]
B
Yeah. I'm gonna put my money down on Kelly with my want for Marianne. That's what I'm gonna do.
- [35:54]
A
I think that's fair.
- [35:56]
B
Yeah. All right. Rachel, category.
- [35:59]
A
That was me. It's your.
- [36:00]
B
Oh, that was you. Okay. It's been so long talking about these things, I forgot.
- [36:04]
A
Listen, I love. I. We love talking to you, so it's to get thrown off.
- [36:08]
B
So we've done all the leading categories. We did. Score. I'm going to do another wrench, and I'm going to say, okay, let's. This one be Quick Costume design of a play. We have appropriate Jaja's African hair braiding, stereophonic Early Victorious and Non Confederate Romp through the Cotton Patch and An Enemy of the People. Now, when I tell you that this category is Ballerina, I'm obsessed with this category because it's mostly period pieces with two Exceptions. Ja Jaws, which is very flamboyant costume design for present day and then appropriate, which is just present day. And I always give shade to Tonys and Oscars when they never nominate modern day clothing. I think Rachel, you and I talked about this with Kimberly Akimbo, how the costuming on that show was so perfect and we were annoyed that they weren't recognized for it.
- [36:57]
A
Yeah. I'm so mad about that. But we have to move on.
- [37:01]
B
We do. We do. The episode's already nine hours, but. But so it's. It's a nice. It's a nice mix here. And I think ultimately they will go for a period piece. Enemy of the People could go that way because it's, you know, 20th century, early 20th turn of the century costumes. Pearly. The costumes work, but I. They are not really impressive enough in. In afterthought to really win. I. So I think it's down to Stereophonic and Jaja and I would love it if Jaja's won because I think this is really the only category they have a shot at winning, and I would like them to be recognized. I'm gonna say Stereophonic here.
- [37:44]
A
Is hair included in cut, like wigs included in costume?
- [37:48]
B
No, I don't. I don't believe it is.
- [37:50]
A
Yeah.
- [37:51]
B
And this was a year where I know that the. The hair and wig union was like, we really need a category here because.
- [37:59]
A
Like, like there's some really great stuff happening. Yeah.
- [38:03]
B
Like, Stereophonic was written to win sound design of a play. And I feel like Ja Jaws was written to win wig and hair and makeup design. But I do think. I think part of the. The wigs probably were influenced. Influential in their nomination for costumes. But I mean, the actual costumes themselves are fantastic and all over the place. Each woman has their. Has her own identity and really impressive and. And memorable outfits. Wedding dress is. She looks like a giant cupcake. I love it. But I'm gonna go with my gut and say Stereophonic. I think Stereophonic is gonna end up winning more Tonys than people realize. Yeah.
- [38:40]
A
Yeah.
- [38:40]
C
I think Stereophonic as well.
- [38:43]
B
Did you guys see it? Stereophonic?
- [38:44]
C
No, but I've seen. I. I try to go through like the press photos of everything and because I love that, like the era they're depicting, I'm like, oh, that's a good detail. Or like, yeah, just even in the. I'm also like a big guitar nerd, so I'm always clocking like, ooh, that's a. That's a good.
- [39:03]
B
The.
- [39:03]
C
The guitars and instruments are just as Much a part of that costume and set. You know, it tells the story.
- [39:08]
A
Like, when we were going to see Heart of Rock and Roll, he's like, there's gonna be a blue Fender Stratocaster. And I was like, okay, well, I'm happy for you.
- [39:18]
B
Okay, grandma, let's get you to bed.
- [39:19]
A
And then the. The women were literally dressed as the blue vendors. But I guess I can't imagine a better situation for you.
- [39:26]
C
Honestly, it worked out nicely.
- [39:28]
B
Everyone gets a little something from Heart of Rock and Roll. Talk about another show where if there was a wig and a hair category, they would be nominated.
- [39:35]
A
I'm so sad for them on so many levels.
- [39:39]
B
On many levels. We can. We can talk about that in other categories in a second, but in a season where there were a lot of wigs that I thought were very underwhelming, Jaja's and Heart of Rock and Roll came in.
- [39:50]
A
They were same wig designer and the.
- [39:53]
B
And there we go.
- [39:54]
A
Yeah, it's the same wig designer from Kaisha. Thank you, Kaisha.
- [39:58]
B
If you're Kaisha, the hair and heart of Rock and Roll is incredible. And if you think that that's a empty state, if that's an empty statement, take a look at some of the wigs of other musicals this year and see the difference, because there are some revivals and some new musicals this year that had wigs that were bad. As much as I love the Outsiders, the wig they gave Brody Grant both times is. How do you say in English? Not good. He does not have a good wig. Anywho. Okay. Also, if you. When you go see Stereophonic, every outfit they put Sarah Pigeon in, you're like, oh, it's you. You gave her that so you could win costume design. Like, she. She just looks so incredible. I'm like, oh, my own little Barbie. We're playing drot stuff. Yeah. I love that she has the best outfits. Okay, Will, give us the category.
- [40:45]
A
Yeah.
- [40:45]
B
Yeah.
- [40:46]
C
Let's go. Featured actor in a musical. We have Roger Bart in Back to the Future. We have Joshua Boone in the Outsiders. We have Brandon Victor Dixon in Hell's Kitchen. We have Sky Lakota lynch in the Outsiders, Daniel Radcliffe in Merrily We Roll along, and Steven Skibel in Cabaret at the Kit Kat Club. I. I think it's going to Daniel Radcliffe. I think that there's such a. He's wonderful in the role. He. What? What's that line that we talked about where, like, ooh, we love how he hit this In Franklin Shepherd, Inc. He says, like, that's the man I love the. The fellow who's inside and, like, when he hits the word love, that just tore us up.
- [41:31]
B
Yeah.
- [41:32]
C
He just finds beautiful stuff in that role that we already know really well, and he still surprised us.
- [41:39]
A
I also just can't imagine a world where we get Harry Potter on Broadway and they don't reward him for just being here. I mean, not that he's not doing an incredible job, but I think it's one of those where it's like, he could have done half as well and I think still probably taken it, if that makes any sense.
- [41:56]
B
I don't know. Angel. This is his first nomination, and he's been in a few things. They. They. They really held off on giving him a nomination for quite a while.
- [42:05]
A
I guess that's fair, but I don't know. There's something. There's something different about it this time.
- [42:10]
B
Oh, no, absolutely. This is. This is definitely the show he's in that is the most universally liked by critics and audiences, because How To Succeed was popular with audiences, but critics and Tonys were like, we all know you're not a good production. And then Equus, it was sort of like, you're getting your feet wet. Good for you. And then Cripple of Anyone was like.
- [42:31]
C
He'S much funnier in this than he is in Equus.
- [42:34]
B
Yeah. I mean, I had a lot of issues with how he blinded those horses in Equus. I was like, where are the jokes? Where are the jokes?
- [42:42]
C
How am I supposed to see this character as a role model if he's doing this to horses?
- [42:47]
B
God, it's very problematic. I can't. It's just cancel Equus because he blinds horses. And I think that all horses deserve to see.
- [42:56]
C
I agree.
- [42:56]
B
Yeah. Yeah. I don't want a horse to not be able to see the costumes that Sarah Pigeon wears in stereophonic. I think that's animal cruelty. Let them see. Let them see that. Let them see that jumpsuit. But I do think. I do think it's Daniel. Rachel just looked up camera and I just saw her go, oh, my God.
- [43:13]
A
I can't. I can't.
- [43:16]
B
I think Daniel Radcliffe is winning this, and he is. He is very good in Merrily. And I think if I. If I were voting, I would vote for Steven for Cabaret, if only because for me, he and Bibi walk away with that production. And it's. He's just so heartbreaking that. That said, Daniel is my number two here. It's. And it's not terribly far apart. So, like, I have. If either one of them were to win, I would be a happy camper. But I do think it's Daniel. We do have to say right here, right now, for everyone on the chat, there is one person missing in this category. He wasn't nominated and it's done that he wasn't.
- [43:56]
C
Oh, are you thinking Justin Guerini and Once Upon a One More Time because he was.
- [44:03]
A
No, he would be lead.
- [44:04]
B
He would be in lead.
- [44:06]
A
But I agree with. I agree with that because that, that he was crazy.
- [44:12]
B
And Once Upon One More Time, I thought Justin was. Did a really lovely job. I actually think that he was the best performance in that show, which is saying something because Jennifer Simard was in that show. And for me to not give Jennifer Samar the number one spot means you had to do a good job. Crazy for There are two men. There are two men not in this category who I think deserve to be here. One is Billy Harrigan. Ty for Hard Rock and Roll.
- [44:34]
C
I could not for his last name.
- [44:36]
B
Yes, yes, yes. But, but, but, but, but, but, but his, his lack of a nomination doesn't make me angry. I figured it wasn't going to happen because the Tonys have a hard time recognizing dumb. They, they. They do not understand in musicals being intelligent about being dumb. Sometimes they do. And I think if Heart and Rock and Roll were a bigger audience hit, like if it were making buco amounts of dollars, they would be a little more eager to give it nominations. But the one that I got angry about because they should have, they could have, and they didn't, is Paul Alexander Nolan in Water for Elephants.
- [45:11]
A
We haven't seen it.
- [45:13]
B
Well, one day you will and you.
- [45:15]
A
Will and we'll agree.
- [45:16]
B
Yes. Well, I mean, but you also know what Paul Alexander Nolan is, what he do and how he brings it. Every ball.
- [45:23]
A
Yeah.
- [45:23]
B
And.
- [45:24]
A
Yep.
- [45:25]
B
So Just. Yeah. Just imagine everything he's ever done in the past, he does it in one for elephants. And the. The choice was theirs and they didn't. They didn't do it. They didn't do it.
- [45:35]
A
That's a true. Are there any Water for Elephants performance? No, I, I'm just realizing that right now. It's such a crazy season.
- [45:45]
B
Same with Illinois. And I mean, listen, I think with Water for Elephants, it wasn't really going to happen other than Paul Grant does an okay job, but his character is mostly a cipher for everything else. It's hard to be nominated when you're. The whole point of you is like, you're the glue. Izzy Michaela does a really lovely job, but I Feel like leading actress in a musical was just sort of all over the place. That that fifth Eden spot was like, oh, no, it could go to four different women. And Eden got in there. And then featured actor, like, it's really just Paul. Stan Brown does. Does a very nice job, but his part's not quite large enough. Wade McCollum does a great job, but again, his part's not large enough. Like it was. It should have been Paul and it wasn't. And I find that homophobic, even though Paul is straight.
- [46:28]
A
Classic.
- [46:29]
B
Classic. Tony's being homophobic. Listen.
- [46:32]
A
Yeah.
- [46:32]
B
Not a single show this year that just is. Has a central gay love story. We have to wait 40 minutes of Illinois to finally get to the queer story. And I find that homophobic. Justin Peck. It should be Ricky Obeyda the entire time. Cut that story about the zombies. Cut that story about John Wayne Gacy. I want. I want Ricky Ubaida and Ben Tyler Cook having challengers level sexual tension and chemistry all night long.
- [47:01]
A
Yeah. I mean, I could talk about Illinois at nauseam, but.
- [47:06]
B
Well, we got orchestrations and choreography coming up.
- [47:09]
A
Yeah, that's true. Well, there's time.
- [47:10]
B
Okay, so what did we say here? This was future accident musical. We're all saying Daniel.
- [47:15]
C
Yeah, Daniel.
- [47:16]
A
Yeah, for sure. I guess that. That brings me to featured actress in a. In a musical which. Shoshana Bean, Hell's Kitchen. Amber Iman Lempa. Nikki M. James. Suffice Rodriguez. Kritzer. Kreitzer. Kreitzer.
- [47:31]
B
Kritzer.
- [47:32]
A
Kritzer. Classic Monty Python. Spamalot. Is it Keisha Lewis. Keis. Hell's Kitchen. Lindsay Mendez, Merrily BB New. Can't we at the Kit Cat Club.
- [47:49]
B
Take your pick, kid.
- [47:50]
A
I don't. I don't know where to look. You know what I mean? It's like, what. What in the world?
- [47:56]
B
I can narrow it down for you. I think our. I think our three finalists are Ms. Keisha Lewis for Hell's Kitchen. Lindsay Mendez for Mary We Roll Along. And Bebe New Earth in cabaret at the KitKat Club.
- [48:08]
A
Yeah. Does Peepee north have a Tony?
- [48:12]
C
She's got two for Chicago.
- [48:14]
B
And Sweet Charity with Debbie Allen.
- [48:16]
A
And.
- [48:16]
C
Oh, yes. Yes.
- [48:19]
A
See? Do you remember earlier when I said I actually don't know anything?
- [48:24]
B
No, you know a lot of things. I just know the other things.
- [48:26]
A
Yeah. Thank you.
- [48:27]
B
I think among the three of us, we know all of Broadway history completely.
- [48:30]
A
Oh, we should write a book.
- [48:33]
B
We should.
- [48:33]
A
The complete history of Broadway written by.
- [48:37]
B
The people that matter.
- [48:41]
A
That won't make anyone upset. I love that. B.B.
- [48:49]
B
You'Re gonna say Bibi?
- [48:50]
A
I think so. I don't know. I don't know why I chose this category. I don't. I don't know what's wrong with me.
- [48:56]
B
Because you support women, Rachel. And for that, I appreciate you.
- [48:59]
A
Girls, girls, supporting girls. It's. It's so difficult. If. If Joy woods was on this list, I'd pick Joy woods. And let's set the record straight on that.
- [49:11]
B
You want to make sure Ms. Joy woods knows that how much joy she gives you in your woods.
- [49:14]
A
I. If. If Joy woods has no fans, I'm dead. Let's put it that way. I'm long.
- [49:23]
B
It's because I'm dead.
- [49:24]
A
It's because I'm Joy. If you're listening. Love you. She's so good.
- [49:29]
B
She's very good. I also really liked Jordan Tyson in. In Notebook. I thought she did a lovely job.
- [49:34]
A
As I. Yeah, I just love the Notebook. I'm really sad about the Notebook. I'm really sad about Heart of Rock and Roll as far as, like, Tony's gonna roll.
- [49:42]
B
Makes me a little sadder. I. I had a feeling Notebook was gonna underperform on nomination day because I've spoken to a few Tony people who really. And I. I don't say this lightly. Like, I, I thought about this. They really hated that show, which confused me because I was like you. I can imagine not liking it, but hating is a strong word. But no, they really hated it. So I figured the Notebook would probably come out under. Yeah.
- [50:05]
A
Anyway, it's a good show. That's. I. I could see. So we. We haven't seen. We haven't seen so many things. You said. The. The three that year between are B.B. lindsay and. Yeah. So we haven't seen Hell's Kitchen, so I have no idea.
- [50:25]
B
Have you been hearing any buzz about Keisha with Hell's Kitchen? Has that been cross?
- [50:29]
A
Everything that I've heard about Hell's Kitchen is that the singing is amazing.
- [50:32]
B
So I, I mean, you got Brandon, Shoshana, and Keisha.
- [50:37]
A
Yeah.
- [50:38]
B
The singing is amazing. Is.
- [50:39]
A
It's like a no brainer.
- [50:41]
B
I could say that that might be the Lucas warmest of takes.
- [50:46]
A
Well, I don't want to say the bad takes.
- [50:48]
B
Well, I've. I've said enough bad takes to last everyone a lifetime. The. The singing and dancing in Hell's Kitchen is incredible. I don't think that the dancing is appropriate half of the time, but every time they do dance, I go that dancing is great. Yeah. The lighting is neat. The sound design is good. And there we are.
- [51:06]
A
And there we are.
- [51:07]
B
There we are. Here's what I'll say about Keisha.
- [51:09]
A
Yeah.
- [51:10]
B
Keisha has a character that I don't think makes a whole ton of sense because she comes on, makes a major impression and then leaves for, like, 20 minutes and then comes back on to make a major impression. And then Act 2 starts, and spoiler alert, she's like, P.S. i've got, like, X amount of days to live. And you're like, oh, that was a curveball.
- [51:30]
A
Yeah.
- [51:32]
B
But she is so commanding in that show and brings such a laser focus. And I felt this way at the public as well. I was like, oh, I want more of that energy in the show. I need someone to come on and command and demand attention. And that is what she does. And I think if Hell's Kitchen were to win musical, she will win. Because I see a Jersey Boys narrative with Hell's Kitchen. Should it win, like, a similar path of winning musical actress, featured actress than, like, on a lighting design or sound design. And if it's not her, I then think it's between BB And Lindsay. And I think Lindsay has the benefit of being very good in a production everyone likes. There are other elements that would maybe keep her from winning. Bebe is a pillar of the community, giving probably one of her best performances in years.
- [52:27]
A
Yeah.
- [52:27]
B
In a show that not everyone loves, but everyone agrees. She and Steven.
- [52:30]
A
Amazing. And. Yeah.
- [52:32]
B
Yeah. So. And again, it's an opportunity to award cabaret without giving it revival. I. I'm not sure with musicals, how concentrated the wins are going to be for certain shows or if it's going to be more of a spreading of wealth.
- [52:45]
A
Yeah.
- [52:46]
B
TBD. I don't know. So it's 2:16pm on Tuesday, May 28th. At this moment in time, I am saying Keisha.
- [52:56]
A
Okay.
- [52:58]
B
But check me at Wednesday, May 29 at 3:30pm and I'm probably gonna say Bebe. Right. Thinking about the moment.
- [53:09]
A
Yeah. That they cast the ballot. So who knows?
- [53:12]
B
Yep, yep, yep.
- [53:13]
C
Well, I wonder. I can't remember if that part in Cabaret if Fraud. Schneider. Schneider. I keep saying Schrader, like Sound of Music. I can't remember if that part has always taken Best Featured Actress when it's been revived, because I'm pretty sure that Mary Louise. Mary.
- [53:38]
B
Mary Louise Wilson.
- [53:39]
C
Wilson. Mary Louise Wilson. Yes. I believe she won. I'm pretty sure Lottie Lanya won originally.
- [53:46]
B
So Lotta Lenya was in lead when it opened, and she did not win. She lost to Barbara Harris in the Apple Tree. This is where I Prove my worth as your friend. But after the. After the original, it has always been featured, and she's always. Fraulein Schneider has always been nominated. She has never won. And the same goes for her. Schultz Harris Schultz has always been nominated, has only won once, and that was Ron rifkin in the 98 cabaret. Regina Resnick was nominated in the 80s. She lost to Judy K. For Phantom. Mary Louise Wilson lost to Audra McDonald in ragtime. Oh. Which was a major surprise because it was. Everyone went into that night being like, I think Cabaret might win all four acting categories. And then Audra and that damn baby came in and they're like, surprise. My streak is not ending yet.
- [54:36]
A
Brown eyes.
- [54:37]
B
Yeah. And then Linda. Linda Eamon nominated in the Revis revival of the revival in 2014, but didn't win. And then BB this time, I feel like. I think if ever there was a chance for Franz Schneider to win, it's this time. Just. It's. It's a weird. It's a weird year as all. Yeah, that's cool. Yeah.
- [54:57]
A
Isn't it cool?
- [54:58]
B
I think, like, I hope if Bibi were to win, I hope she got on that stage and she goes, this is for Lata Regina, Mary Louise, Linda, and now me. And also. Also, you know what's funny is that every time cabaret is done in London for Line, Schneider always wins the Olivier. Every single time.
- [55:15]
A
That's so London.
- [55:17]
B
It's so London. They're like a woman over 45. Give her a. Give her an Olivier.
- [55:22]
A
That's right.
- [55:22]
B
Yeah. That's why we're going to get the geriatric Evita revival in a few years.
- [55:27]
A
Can't wait. Yeah, I can't wait.
- [55:28]
B
Can't wait. All right. Oh, is it me now?
- [55:33]
C
Yes.
- [55:33]
B
Oh, it's me now. Okay. I'm going to do featured actress in a play. We have Quincy Tyler Bernstein in Doubt A Parable. Juliana Canfield in Stereophonic, Celia Keenan Bolger in Mother Play, Sarah Pigeon and Stereophonic and Carrie Young and Pearly Victorious A Non Confederate romp through the cotton patch. I am gonna say, okay, it's. For me, it's down to two and again every other hour. My pick, my prediction and my vote. Swap every other hour. But it's never my pick. My. My vote and my prediction are never equal, though. So it's either Carrie Young or Sarah Pigeon and which one I want to win and which one I think will win. Changes every hour.
- [56:30]
A
Yeah, I think that's totally fair.
- [56:33]
B
Yeah. And you guys haven't seen Stereophonic yet, so You?
- [56:35]
A
No, but I know enough about it to know that that's the correct take.
- [56:39]
C
We've seen as much of stereophonic as the people sitting in the very back row C of that recording booth.
- [56:44]
B
Fantastic. That is. That is a fantastic deep cut, Will. No, everyone in that show is incredible, and everyone gets a moment to be somebody. She has, in particular, two scenes that really just. They're almost hard to watch because you're so uncomfortable for her.
- [57:06]
C
I. If I remember, there, you had described her plot as like, she's being gaslit, if I remember.
- [57:17]
B
Yeah. So, yeah, she and Tompa Cinca, who we'll get to in a second, their characters are together for most of the play. They are Stevie Nicks and Lindsey Buckingham. Yeah, Lindsey Buckingham. That's his name.
- [57:31]
A
Yeah.
- [57:32]
B
So they're together, and he's being a dick for pretty much the entire show, but in particular, because he is just such a visionary. I was actually guesting on a podcast that'll be coming out, I think, a week after this episode, where I said, he's sort of like Miranda Priestly in the sense that they're both perfectionists and visionaries, and they're both nasty about it. But Miranda is so fabulous and cool and calm and collected and says quippy things that. We love her, and we were like, slay diva. But Peter is just an asshole and messy and sweaty and always on coke. And we're just like, ugh, kill him. Kill him with fire.
- [58:05]
A
Get out.
- [58:06]
B
But the scene between him and Sarah, it's this great scene where he is gaslighting her because he's giving feedback on a song she wrote, and he's being incredibly blunt about it. His feedback isn't incorrect. He's just really, like, harsh. And she pulls him aside, and they're alone in the studio, and she basically is like, you can't just talk to me like that. Like, you. You know, if you want me to do well, you have to be kinder. And he's like, but, you know, I'm right. She goes, it doesn't matter if you're right. You have to respect me. And he goes, I do respect you. Like, if I didn't respect you, I would soften my words. He's like, but, you know, the only way to get anything out of you is to coax you into it. And. And so the whole gaslighting thing is that it's. It's actual, real, realistic gaslighting, because he isn't saying anything that's, technically speaking, a lie. He's just saying the truths that benefit his version of their history. He's not bringing up any of the other stuff that she's bringing up. And when she does bring it up, he undermines it with another thing, which it does make her question her reality, but it makes her question her perspective of, like, okay, both of these things absolutely happen. But was I. Am I thinking of it unclearly? Like, are you. Do you have a. Do you have a better perspective of what happened, you know, six months ago between us? And so that's the kind of gaslighting that it is, which doesn't make him a villain so much as it just makes him a narcissist, essentially. But she's also a bit of a narcissist. And it's just such a. It's a well written scene that they act so well. And you just sit there being like, come on, girl. Like, you're almost there. Like you. Like you almost have reached the conclusion we want you to reach. And watching her get to that conclusion is a journey for sure. Sorry, that was my monologue you booked. Thank you. Yeah.
- [59:55]
C
You're nominated on this list now.
- [59:57]
A
His name just popped up.
- [60:00]
C
I do. I do love Carrie Young. I thought that in rewatching Pearly the other day, the way that she listens is funny and, like, it just. Every choice that she makes, I would say.
- [60:13]
A
Yeah, I think she's. So have. Have the votes already happened? When do they actually vote?
- [60:20]
B
So the tonys are on June 16th. I would imagine actual voting doesn't happen until after June 1st.
- [60:28]
A
Sure. Okay. So, yeah. So they're in a perfect world. Everybody's watching this PBS taped version.
- [60:37]
B
Yeah.
- [60:38]
A
And they're seeing the nuances of her facial expressions, which are crazy.
- [60:46]
B
Yeah.
- [60:47]
A
She's so funny. It's the whole.
- [60:50]
B
It's the whole thing where she's signing the contract for me is like a master class.
- [60:54]
A
It's unbelievable. Just like the way that she'll roll her eyes or like. Like the little twitches, like stuff that. We had really great seats too, which was, like a true blessing. But there's so much that you don't pick up on unless you're like, really up in their faces and with the camera, you're allowed to do that. I feel like if somebody watches that before they vote, it's her for sure.
- [61:19]
B
Yeah. I mean, it is truly. It is truly. No, it is truly down to the two of them. And it's just a matter of, you know, and there's just a lot of things that go into it. I think with. Also with Cara, the fact that it's her third nomination in a row.
- [61:34]
A
Yeah. Crazy run.
- [61:36]
B
Yeah. An amazing run. And, you know, if she were to win, like, what would that do for her career? And, like, could she become one of our first ladies of the stage in the next 10 years just by, like, having this kind of run going? Because she. She's proven, with Clyde's and Cost of Living and Pearly how versatile she is as an actress, and the kind of versatile that I like, where you see her in every role she plays, but she. She alters the temperature and the dynamics of each performance for the style of each show, which I appreciate. And, I mean, I just remember the way she shouts. His heart stopped beating, didn't it, Like. Yeah, it's so good. It's so good. But Sarah is good. This is actually. I will say this is another favorite category of mine because Juliana Canfield is also fantastic in Stereophonic. I'm thrilled she got nominated. Quincy is good in Doubt. That's definitely, like, the role in Doubt. She comes on, basically, is like, give my son to the pedophile because I want him to go to college. And I'm like, your way of thinking is fascinating, ma', am, but it is. That's drama for you. No, it's a. It's a solid category. I'm gonna say. Okay, it's 2:25pm I'm gonna say Harry Young is winning, and Sarah Pigeon is my vote. But I think I actually said something different ten minutes ago, so.
- [62:52]
A
You did. Yeah.
- [62:52]
B
But that's fantastic. Here we go. This is. This is what it is. This is how we work. This is how we roll.
- [62:57]
A
A prerogative to change. Is it you?
- [63:01]
B
Yes, it's Will.
- [63:05]
C
Let's do.
- [63:10]
B
Ooh.
- [63:10]
C
I. I always love doing orchestrations. Let's do orchestrations.
- [63:13]
A
Yeah. This is a very unique category.
- [63:15]
C
We have Timo Andres for Illinois. We have Will Butler and Justin Craig for Stereophonic. Justin Levine, Matt Hinckley and Jamestown Revival for. And am I missing another name in there?
- [63:27]
B
No.
- [63:28]
C
And Zach Chance for the Outsiders.
- [63:29]
B
Chance and Jonathan Clay are Jamestown Revival.
- [63:34]
C
Yes. Okay, cool. I have it, like, with parenthesis and it doesn't matter. For the Outsiders, Tom Kitt and Adam Blackstone for Hell's Kitchen and Jonathan Tunick for Merrily We Roll Along. I was blown away at how good Illinois sounded in the room. I. It was so exciting. You heard all of these textures that Sufjan Stevens is so known for, but it never felt in your face, it. You know, between the sound balance, between the. No other shows sound like Illinois right now. And I think that's a really cool direction for things to go in the future. And that said, Merrily We Roll Along. One of my favorite scores, one of my favorite orchestrations of all time. So like despite that, I'm still gonna say Illinois. That's where I would vote.
- [64:26]
B
And what do you, and what do you think is going to actually happen to his Illinois?
- [64:31]
C
It's that, that same stereophonic thing again, because though I haven't been in the room, stereophonic sounds like that era. And I've seen so many people online after they performed on one of the late night shows where they were like, what is this band? They're my new favorite band. I haven't heard of them before. What are, what have they been doing? And that's a very cool thing to have accomplished.
- [64:55]
B
Yeah.
- [64:57]
C
To a fooled non theater people is always very exciting.
- [65:00]
B
Oh, that's great.
- [65:02]
C
So it, it's if, if the voters can cross that threshold for stereophonic, otherwise I do think Illinois and I think.
- [65:12]
A
It'Ll be Jonathan Tunick.
- [65:14]
B
That's what you think of Will. That's, that, that's, that's my handmade tale name for you. Rachel. Of Will.
- [65:21]
A
Of Will. At the tape. I'm out. I'm out.
- [65:29]
B
Do you think Jonathan Tunic. Okay.
- [65:30]
A
I think so.
- [65:31]
B
Okay, give me your reasoning.
- [65:34]
A
I think it's, it's one of those like legacy overdue should have happened the first time kind of things.
- [65:46]
C
And I think category didn't exist in 1981.
- [65:49]
A
Yeah. And also I think Merrily is so highly regarded for its score. Like if, if. I mean, I guess this is orchestrations, but the orchestrations in the score go hand in hand. But like if the score and orchestrations for Merrily weren't as good as they are, nobody would ever care to revive it. And I just think it's one of those things that the nostalgia of it and being able to give it its proper due in this moment kind of outweighs other things. It's like a legacy thing in my mind. It's you.
- [66:31]
B
So usually with orchestrations they either go with whatever's winning score or a revival that's like a major departure of some sort. The last couple of years has actually kind of thrown a huge wrench in that because we had some like at hot winning orchestrations last year and then Girl from the north country the year before that. And I think that if ever there was a year where something could win orchestrations and not score, it would be this year. And that would be fall down to, you know, Merrily Illinois and Stereophonic, in my opinion. I think what Hell's Kitchen's arrangements do are very impressive, but they ultimately just sound like fuller versions of Alicia Keys songs. Outsiders. The orchestrations are good. They're very appropriate to what the show is doing, but they're not like, blow you away. I mean, I remember when I saw Illinois, I was. I thought to myself, you know, these orchestrations are just magical. And it originally was my vote. And then with Stereophonic, so when you go see Stereophonic again, there's the way that that show is written and the way they go through the creative process. It is almost like it's designed to win this category because there's a song called Bright that they do like a few different versions of. And you also watch a work session sort of rejigger the. The arrangements, and you listen how by changing arrangements, it alters the mood of the song.
- [67:54]
A
Yeah.
- [67:55]
B
And that is just a really. It's like this really meta way of being like. And this is why you should vote for us for orchestrations, because we showed you what orchestrations are. It's. It's. It's really impressive. I think with Merrily. Ultimately, what I find impressive is that tunic made a 13 piece orchestra sound like 20, at least.
- [68:12]
A
Yeah, that too.
- [68:13]
B
Because it is one fewer musician than the Finding Girl revival. And that revival sounded like two kazoos and a prayer. So to make this, which was one instrument less, sound so much fuller, I think is such an imp. Is such an impressive feat. Yeah, I ruined Rachel.
- [68:30]
C
Prayer sounds like a George S. Kaufman play that can never be revived.
- [68:34]
B
Two Kazoos and a prayer. Oh, guys, it's like he wrote it.
- [68:41]
C
With Mark Connolly is how old it is.
- [68:43]
B
Oh, no.
- [68:45]
A
Oh, my God, I'm broken.
- [68:47]
B
Oh, no. Yeah. They did a revival of it in the 90s with Willem Dafoe, and everyone said, no more of this. No.
- [68:53]
C
Yeah.
- [68:54]
A
And they said, you'll let it slide this time, but absolutely not.
- [68:58]
B
Willem, you get a pass today, but in as payment, you have to. To pour things and makeup that no one will recognize you in, so.
- [69:06]
A
Oh, my God.
- [69:08]
B
Yeah, but like, come on, you've heard that funny Girl orchestra. Not even the.
- [69:12]
C
Oh, no.
- [69:13]
B
I. It's even. Sounds thin. Ish on the cast recording, and that's twice the size of what was in the theater.
- [69:18]
A
In the video that we made about it, you did a very subtle shade.
- [69:21]
C
I threw a little shade. And I could have gone harder with it when I said, you know, here's what happens. Here's the context of the show and and listen to one of Broadway's most glorious overtures played by 14 musicians. And it was. I could have gone a little harsher.
- [69:38]
A
No, but people even commented on it then they were like, that's. That's a wild thing to say. And, and it was for us particularly because, yeah, we don't.
- [69:47]
C
We're normally a little softer, but I was, I was.
- [69:50]
B
But it's, it just. It is a phenomenal overture. And you know, they're all hard working musicians, but it just, it definitely did not sound.
- [69:59]
A
Oh yeah, it's not their fault.
- [70:01]
B
Well, no, there's a specific musician. I don't know who they are, but there's a certain moment in that overture that relies on them to really nail it and, and bring it on home. And I have seen that revival more times than I care to admit. Not because I loved it so. I. I did not love it so. But because of circumstances. I saw Beanie and then someone asked me to go see Julie and then my mom wanted to see Leah and then I had a friend who booked the show, so I had to go back to see the friend. So I saw that show four times and so there I admitted it. But every time this person did not nail their moment of the overture. And I was like, again, you have nothing but people holding Saran Wrap as your backup. You have to sell this and you keep not doing it. So that bothered me. But the Merrily orchestra does nail it every single time. And I think tunics orchestras are great. I. I am. Okay, how bold should I be right now with this prediction right. Right here?
- [71:06]
A
Bold.
- [71:06]
B
Yeah. Okay. I'm gonna say stereophonic is winning orchestrations and score. But if I'm gonna be a little more safe, you know, wrap it up. I'm gonna say merrily. My vote would be Illinois though, because I think more orchestras need xylophones. There, I said it. That's my hot take. We need more of them.
- [71:30]
A
Well, you know what does have a xylophone? The Great Gatsby.
- [71:34]
B
Oh, does it?
- [71:35]
A
Sure does.
- [71:36]
B
Yeah.
- [71:36]
A
For all the Valley of the Ashes songs. And I know because I went in, they had me film the sits probe.
- [71:43]
B
Oh, that's fun. Yeah, I. But maybe that xylophone could have been louder to drown out some of those lyrics. I think sound design thing. That's not an orchestration thing.
- [71:54]
A
Anything.
- [71:54]
B
You don't have to say anything. I've said what I've said about Great Gatsby. There was. Was it you guys or. There was. There was that meme recently of like Jeremy Jordan and Greg Gatsby of, like, the orchestra pit. And it's just like him falling to the floor.
- [72:07]
A
No, not us. There's another meme page that has popped up that I'm a big fan of.
- [72:12]
B
Yeah.
- [72:13]
A
Memes on Broadway. But it's very clear that they work.
- [72:18]
C
They do a lot in from the music department.
- [72:20]
A
Yeah, they're definitely. Yeah, they're definitely in. In something. We don't. We're not at liberty to say who they are and what they do, but they're definitely on the inside of things, which lets them be a little bit more.
- [72:33]
C
They're incredibly specific and precise.
- [72:36]
A
Yeah, yeah.
- [72:37]
B
No, it's very clear. The memes on Broadway account. It's very clear that they come from the music department because that is 85% of their memes. Yeah.
- [72:44]
A
And, and, but while I was working on Gatsby, I. In my contract, I wasn't allowed to make certain things, so there was a lot of stuff that I wish I could have made that I. We didn't. Which I guess, like, because I'm not in contract anymore, we could, but I just feel like.
- [73:02]
B
Sure.
- [73:04]
A
Is there, Is there a little Gatsbyed out?
- [73:06]
B
Is there a meme to do of when you toss something out of like, we don't need this. And it's the Gatsby team with all the homosexual undertones of the book. We don't need any of this.
- [73:14]
A
Yeah. Bye.
- [73:15]
C
The woman throwing a lobster off of the side of a ship. And we just make it a label meme and impact text.
- [73:22]
A
Yeah. Well, the other thing, too, is the whole creative team follows us. So that's the other thing.
- [73:26]
B
You're very followable. I don't know if you know that.
- [73:28]
A
That's very kind, but anyway, I just, I, I. Since you said more xylophone, I thought it was only fair to bring up the fact that they do, in fact, have xylophone. Well, the woman who plays for Crushing on the show is very cool. She does a lot of. A lot of stuff.
- [73:43]
B
Yeah. I'm glad that they've got a xylophone. They are. They are holding up their end of the bargain in that respect, so thank you.
- [73:49]
A
No harp. No harps on Broadway.
- [73:52]
C
More harps on Broadway.
- [73:53]
B
Always. I think Notebook has a heart.
- [73:55]
A
Notebook has a harp.
- [73:56]
B
Yeah, harp and xylophone. And, and honestly, banjo. I want more banjo. Let's go.
- [74:02]
A
Let's.
- [74:03]
B
I think only, Only Hamilton has a banjo. Maybe Outsiders. I don't know.
- [74:07]
C
Illinois has a banjo.
- [74:08]
B
Oh, of course they do. Illinois has everything.
- [74:11]
C
Illinois might have two banjos. There's definitely one, but I feel like at one point I heard two, and I couldn't see part of the band.
- [74:17]
B
Okay. I picked orchestrations. Right.
- [74:22]
C
I think I did. I always picked the orchestra.
- [74:24]
A
I'm up. Let's do scenic design of a musical. So we have the Outsiders, Hell's Kitchen, Water for Elephants, Here Lies Love, Lempicka, Back to the Future, and Cabaret, the Kitkat Club. So here's the thing. If it were still running. Here Lies Love.
- [74:44]
B
Yes.
- [74:46]
A
But because it's not it. I feel like it's got to be Cabaret. Because of how. Well, like, here's the thing. Question for you. Because, you know, like, everything in Back to the Future does the. Is the car scenic? Like, what. What the hell is the car?
- [75:06]
B
What.
- [75:06]
A
What are. What are we doing? You know what I mean?
- [75:08]
C
It actually counts as a puppet, so it's under costumes.
- [75:11]
B
Ah.
- [75:12]
A
Classic Life of Pie throwback. That was insane. It's like, does the. If the car counts, maybe. And then for Cabaret, is it the transformation of the theater count? Does it. Does the before.
- [75:26]
B
Yeah, well, because the. The transformation of the theater falls under the purview of the scenic designer. He is. Who is credited for all of that.
- [75:33]
A
Yeah. So then I think it's got to be Cabaret.
- [75:35]
B
Yeah.
- [75:36]
A
That transformation is crazy.
- [75:38]
B
Yeah. And what's interesting about the transformation, he did a video where he talked about it, which I appreciated. He was like, the lobby areas, we didn't do a ton. We. What we did was we added certain things and then brought out what was already there to make it, like, well integrated because we didn't want to obstruct what was so interesting about this theater already. And. And just sort of like, you know, homogenize it all, which I appreciated because so many people are like, oh, my God, it's unrecognizable. I'm like, no, you can recognize things from the theater.
- [76:06]
A
It's just that you're. You're disoriented because you're entering from a completely different place. And then by the time you get to the lobby, you're like, where am I right now? But, yeah, the lobby itself is very unchanged.
- [76:19]
B
But I think it's very impressive that they were able to do that without doing that much with. With certain areas of the theater.
- [76:26]
A
Yeah. It makes me wish that we were able to get in early. We. We went in as early as we possibly could. And I still, like, I wish I had more time to just explore because it was so, like, the transformation was so impressive.
- [76:37]
B
Yeah. My only regret was saying yes to the schnapps because it was free booze, but schnapps is not tasty. So I.
- [76:43]
A
No, no.
- [76:44]
B
Yeah. My friend Amanda and I just spent the, like, next 30 minutes smacking her lips. Going schnapps was a bad choice.
- [76:52]
A
Anybody got gum?
- [76:53]
B
Yeah, truly. I'm gonna say the same. I'm gonna say Cabaret. If her Lies Love were still around, it would win. The only thing that kind of makes me question is, are. Could this be a year where someone pulls a once and award scenic design not for most, but for like something simple but effective?
- [77:15]
A
I would be so mad.
- [77:17]
B
Well, for me, like, that would be the Outsiders, which is. Which is pretty much a unit set that is very well utilized.
- [77:23]
A
Right.
- [77:23]
B
I don't think that's going to happen. But I like.
- [77:27]
A
Like you're saying the vote is so split between all of these huge spectacles that like the. The Little Engine that could.
- [77:34]
B
Yeah, Well, I don't think anyone's voting for Lempicka. I don't think anyone's going to. I don't think a lot of people are going to vote for her Lies Love. I don't think people are going to vote for Back to the Future because even the car, that whole design is just impressive in terms of. Hey, look how much money we spent fully recreating the movie on stage as down to every detail. You could imagine that scene where they're hanging laundry for no reason. We do that. Like, it's just, it's. It made me a little frustrated. It was like we couldn't set anything in a different space and maybe rewrite the scene because we can do that. It's a whole new entity. But we digress. No, I think it's just. I do think it is cabaret. I think that is. For me, that is very easy category to do. Quill.
- [78:14]
A
No, you're up.
- [78:14]
C
You're up.
- [78:15]
B
Oh, okay. I'm sorry. Oh, so I am up. Okay, before we get to my pick, let us take one last break.
- [78:23]
A
Billy, I'd like to dim it with you.
- [78:24]
B
How do you mean?
- [78:25]
A
You're the top. Yeah, you're an arrow collar. You're the top. You're a Coolidge dollar.
- [78:39]
B
And we back. Okay, so let's do scenic design of a play. We have dots for appropriate dots for an Enemy of the people, Derek McLean for Pearly Victorious, a A Non Confederate Romp through the Cotton Patch, David Zinn for Jaja African Hair Braiding. And David Zinn for Stereophonic. I love that. We've got five nominees and four of Them are represented by two. Two peeps. I'm going to say appropriate will win. For anyone who has seen appropriate, those last five minutes is.
- [79:14]
C
Oh, my God.
- [79:15]
B
Yeah. That's what wins them the Tony.
- [79:17]
C
Yeah.
- [79:18]
B
If anything were to beat it, it would be stereophonic for what is an incredibly well detailed set design and. And very well used. But I'm gonna. Yeah, I'm gonna say appropriate.
- [79:31]
C
I also feel appropriate. I. Because I. There's. I, I feel like I can't spoil the, you know, final images. But there. There was a piece that sometimes a couple really early shows, this piece didn't come in, and people were still blown away by it.
- [79:53]
B
And.
- [79:54]
A
You mean, like, technical difficulties?
- [79:56]
C
Not even like a technical difficulty, because it's. It's like essentially the final image of the show. But even without that, you know, piece flying in at the end, that.
- [80:06]
B
Piece of nature.
- [80:07]
C
Yes, piece of nature. That it. People were people still left blown away by how the room transformed.
- [80:19]
B
Yeah, yeah.
- [80:20]
A
Can I add that justice for the cottage?
- [80:26]
B
You can, yeah.
- [80:28]
A
That was one of the, the plays that when that curtain rose, the entire room gasped at how beautiful that set was.
- [80:36]
B
Yeah.
- [80:37]
A
So I, I, there's, there's a lot of snubs this year for me personally with my personal tastes and preferences, but, like, that's really up there for me. I think that's such a shame that in Greyhouse, too, the two of them, it was like, curtain up, like, oh, my God, we are in a different. Like, this is a Broadway show.
- [80:56]
B
I'm a little more partial to the gray house design than the cottage design. And I'm trying to get more into the habit of saying omissions than snubs. If I'm going to say snub, it's got to be very fair. Only because, you know, sometimes there are years where actual snubs do happen, and you have to go, this was clearly people having a. An agenda and having a stigma. Like, I do think Heart of Rock and Roll was snubbed because nominators overall had a. Not a bias, but it did not rub them the right way. And rather than acknowledge what that show does well for what it's doing, they go, let's give a book nomination to a show that doesn't deserve it.
- [81:35]
A
Yeah.
- [81:35]
B
But anywho, with the cottage, my issue with the set design was it was beautiful, but it wasn't conducive to farce, which I don't think the play itself actually is. But that's how Jason Alexander tried to stage it. Yeah, but I thought the costumes were Gorgeous.
- [81:50]
A
I would have given them the cigarettes and the lighters and the, like. I don't know. I just. I really loved it. I loved it.
- [81:57]
B
I love cigarettes.
- [81:58]
A
Yeah. I don't know.
- [82:00]
B
When what's his Face from SNL took a cigarette out of the penis part of the statue, I was like, that's gay.
- [82:06]
A
That's another one where I was like, he should have been nominated, but that's fine. What are you gonna do?
- [82:11]
B
I mean, if I'm gonna be. Listen, if I'm gonna be honest here.
- [82:14]
A
Yeah.
- [82:15]
B
I would kick out either Jessica Lange or Amy Ryan and leading actress in a play and put in Laura Bundy.
- [82:22]
A
Yeah.
- [82:22]
B
I did not care for the cottage, but that girl.
- [82:25]
A
Tears in her eyes in a comedy.
- [82:27]
B
Come on. And charismatic as the day is long. And that is a long day's journey into night.
- [82:33]
A
Yeah, Sorry. Okay. That's my. My rant on the cottage. It. I understand that it's closed. I understand it was limited. I understand that it was a comedy like all the things that the Tony Awards can hate. It's like, I get it. But it was a wonderful night at the theater. It deserved.
- [82:49]
B
I think I would have put in Greyhouse over Jaja's. But also, you know, if musical can have seven nominees, let's put in Greyhouse and Cottage and see kind of a play and give them seven nominations. Why not?
- [82:59]
A
Let's go. Yeah.
- [83:01]
B
This is our. And this is our inception reality. Let's do it.
- [83:04]
A
Yeah. That's my take.
- [83:05]
C
One last thought on scenic design of a play I loved in Pearly. How the. It rise. The ceiling essentially rises to give way to the. The church. What is it? Not arches, but the, like, support beams, buttresses of the. Thank you. Of the church ceiling. Yeah. And you lose a little bit of that in the PBS taping. But in the room, it was so stunning. It got applause.
- [83:36]
B
Yeah. It was a very simple effect. That was very, very impactful. And.
- [83:41]
C
Yeah, because.
- [83:42]
B
Because that set was, like, very fine for all. For the whole show. And then they do the reveal, and you're like, oh, that was great.
- [83:48]
A
It's beautiful.
- [83:49]
C
Just so, so effective. Gutenberg did a similar thing where, you know, they, you know, in the last five seconds, they're like. And here's something else. And then it ends.
- [84:00]
B
Yeah. They. They showed you all the dirty thatch. And it was. It was wonderful. What? That was. That was the running joke every time they were describing a scene. Andrew. The roof is made of dirty thatch.
- [84:13]
A
Yeah. I just. It's a fun callback.
- [84:16]
B
It is a fun Callback. Okay.
- [84:18]
C
Who are you doing for Thatch Game?
- [84:21]
B
Oh, Thatch Game. My God. Okay. How dear. All right, so I did. I picked scenic design of a play. Yes.
- [84:27]
A
Yes.
- [84:27]
B
Okay, so that means Will Young, William.
- [84:29]
C
Oh, gosh. Are we up to. I should have been crossing these off as we go.
- [84:34]
A
Yeah.
- [84:35]
B
Okay, so so far, we have done orchestrations, we've done costume design of a play, scenic design of a play, and musical. We've done score, we've done. We've done all the acting categories except for featured actor, no play. And that's it.
- [84:53]
C
Let's. If we do featured actor in a play, we can. I, I, I haven't seen enough of the. Of these nominees, to be totally honest, because three of them are Stereophonic for featured role in a play. I know that, you know, I'm, I'm not a good person to weigh in on this one.
- [85:14]
A
Just pick a different category, my love.
- [85:16]
C
Oh, sure.
- [85:16]
B
Well, since neither of you are.
- [85:19]
A
Yeah, yeah, hit us your thought.
- [85:21]
B
We've got three men from Stereophonic. We've got Will Brill, Eli Gelb, Tom Pasenka. I think there's a very real chance that this will split because none of these men are the prominent lead of the trio. Like, they're all. There's a reason to vote for any of them, and that's tricky. So that also leaves us with Jim Parsons of Mother Play and Corey Stole from Appropriate. I think of the two, Corey Stoll would probably be the better shot. Jim Parsons dies in Mother Play, and people love to award people who, you know, suffer and die and shit. But so Catholic, so Catholic. Oh, my God, he's gay and he dies of things from the 80s. I'm like, yeah, yeah, we're back in 1990s Broadway now. My personal vote would be Will Brill and Stereophonic, who I think is a good shot. Much as I love Tom Pasanka, I think it's sort of a little bit down to Eli Gelb and Will Brill. Eli becomes the lead of the show in the second half, and that can get people on his side. But Will is a true featured performer. He's got three big moments scattered throughout the show, lands it like a champ, and then walks off the stage. So my vote is gonna be Will. I'm gonna predict Corey for now, sure. Yeah. And maybe I think in a week I'm gonna predict Eli instead. But right now, I'm predicting Corey.
- [86:50]
A
Like, how fun is it to say Will Brill?
- [86:52]
B
It's, it's such a fun name.
- [86:54]
A
It's such a fun Name.
- [86:55]
B
Will Brill for Buffalo Bill and Still Alice. All right.
- [87:01]
C
In the Rural Juror.
- [87:03]
B
All right. But our. Our other Will. Will, why don't you pick a different category?
- [87:07]
C
Let's go. Choreography category. We have Annie B. Parson for Here Lies Love, Camille A. Brown for Hell's Kitchen. Rick Kupperman and Jeff Copperman for the Outsiders. Justin Peck for Illinois, and Jesse Robb and Shawna Carroll for Water for Elephants.
- [87:22]
B
Can I just say, another great category. Yeah. I like everyone here.
- [87:28]
C
I. I love the way that Annie B. Parson uses spaces. It doesn't feel like Broadway, but it feels so theatrical and unexpected and then obvious in retrospect. I am such a fan of her work. I still think Justin Peck for Illinois. I think that it's the most. When you walk out of that show, you're like. Like, that was good choreography. And, like, you will think it. Everybody has the same.
- [88:03]
A
I just can't imagine a world where, like, a dance show was good enough to get nominated for Best Musical. And it doesn't take best choreography. In my mind, that. That wouldn't make any sense.
- [88:14]
C
It's, like, up being nominated for Best Animated Feature and Best Picture, and you're like, well, it's definitely going to win Best Animated Feature. I'm not sure if it'll win Best Picture.
- [88:23]
B
Yeah, it's. I mean, think about it, because you have something like After Midnight and Moving out, both, which were dance shows that were nominated for Best Musical. They lost musical, but they won choreography. And I do think that this is a similar situation, Rachel, where I don't think Illinois is going to win. I think the fact that it's a short run, it's kind of an odd duck of a musical. Not everyone feels comfortable with its category placement, but you can take comfort knowing that the choreography is lovely. And since you can't award the score, you can award the choreography.
- [88:57]
C
Yeah.
- [88:57]
B
Yeah. I do think if Illinois was an original score, my God, would it just win in a landslide? Because that music is insane.
- [89:04]
A
Yeah. I mean, stood the test of time, truly.
- [89:08]
B
I mean, how old is that album now? 18 years now.
- [89:10]
C
Gonna. It's gonna be 20 years this October. I think that's why I was explaining what it was to a work friend, and then he was like, oh, so it's like 20 years old now?
- [89:18]
B
And I was like, oh, no.
- [89:20]
A
What do you. What do you mean?
- [89:21]
C
Not when I was in high school.
- [89:22]
B
No.
- [89:23]
A
What do you. What do you mean?
- [89:24]
B
Can I tell you something terrible? I did not know this album existed until this year.
- [89:28]
A
Really?
- [89:29]
B
Yeah.
- [89:30]
A
Well, so have you heard. Heard some of the songs. I mean, I feel like they're, like, in pop culture.
- [89:35]
B
No, I'm terrible about non Broadway music. I. I'm. I know some of it, and occasionally it's in the moment when that music is actually happening, but then I'll.
- [89:46]
A
Do you need me to put you up, like, a Taylor Swift playlist together or, like, what do you. What do you do?
- [89:51]
B
I know most of T. Swift. I don't know her latest album.
- [89:54]
A
I'll send you some stuff.
- [89:56]
B
Okay, thank you. But, like, I'll send. I'll. I will do Apple music discovery stuff when I'm at the gym, and I'll text friends and be like, oh, my God, have you, like, heard this song? It's so good. And my friend's like, yeah, Matt, that song is 10 years old.
- [90:10]
A
Surprise.
- [90:11]
B
My biggest claim to fame in the last few years was when Sour Dropped Apple recommended it to me.
- [90:18]
A
Great.
- [90:18]
B
And I was like, oh, my God. And I. I had never heard of Olivia Rodrigo. I was like, oh, God, this girl is so good. I love these songs. Who is she? This is amazing. And I was texting people about it, and I went, oh, I feel like I'm discovering this indie girl. And everyone had to go, no, Matthew, she's incredibly famous. And where were you when driver's license dropped months ago. And I said, that dropped months ago. Like, I. I just didn't know.
- [90:42]
A
Yeah. So Illinois sketch about it.
- [90:45]
B
My. My Sufyan Stevens introduction was call me by your name. I'm that basic.
- [90:49]
A
Oh, wow. No, that's. I mean, there's nothing basic about that.
- [90:53]
B
That's.
- [90:54]
A
That's a good reference point.
- [90:56]
B
Yeah.
- [90:56]
A
Thank you.
- [90:57]
B
But, yes. Now I'm obsessed with that album, and I. I can't stop listening to it.
- [91:01]
A
So good.
- [91:02]
B
Yeah.
- [91:02]
A
Is it me? Am I the drama?
- [91:06]
B
We all said. We all said. Justin Peck for Illinois. Yes. Yeah. Yeah. I do want to give a quick shout out to the Kupperman Brothers for Or Lovers. I don't know what they are for the Outsiders, because I think that choreography is incredible. And the. The rumble in Act 2 is perhaps my biggest highlight in the musical this season.
- [91:23]
A
I know. We really have to see it. Everybody that I've talked to has spoken so highly about the Rumble.
- [91:29]
B
I mean, Will, I don't know what you'll get out of the Rumble, but, Rachel, that Rumble is hot.
- [91:33]
A
Can't wait.
- [91:33]
B
Yeah.
- [91:34]
A
Say less. You know what I mean?
- [91:36]
B
Exactly.
- [91:36]
A
So you'll get something out of it.
- [91:39]
C
I'm here for.
- [91:39]
B
I'm here.
- [91:40]
A
I'm here let's see. Is this page done except for Did. Did we do book of a musical?
- [91:50]
B
We have not.
- [91:51]
A
Okay, let's. Let's knock it out, and then we can get rid of this page. Best book of a musical. Hell's Kitchen. Chris. Christopher Diaz. Is that it? Christopher Diaz, The Notebook. Becca Runstetter.
- [92:05]
B
That seems right.
- [92:06]
A
Sure. The Outsiders, Adam Rapp and Justin Levine. Levine Suss. Shayna Taub and Water for Elephants. Rick Ellis. Sure. I'm dyslexic, so these are hard for me.
- [92:18]
B
You did great.
- [92:18]
A
I've heard these names before, like, but to read them, probably Stuffs. I don't know. So the problem. The problem with this category is we've only seen the Notebook and stuffs. I know. Hell's Kitchen notoriously, has a bad book, from what I've heard.
- [92:48]
B
From me.
- [92:50]
A
No, not just from you. From many, many people.
- [92:53]
C
It was floating around.
- [92:55]
B
Yeah.
- [92:56]
A
It's difficult because three of them are adaptations from books. I don't know. I don't know. I picked this category out of convenience, and now I'm here.
- [93:06]
B
But it's. But it is tough. I think of the five, the. The Notebook and the Outsiders might be the librettos that I like the most. Yeah, they both have their problems, but I think they're both overall strong subs. I think drama speaking is kind of messy, but is where I'm predicting right now.
- [93:28]
A
It feels like the type of thing people would want to vote for. Does that make sense?
- [93:32]
B
Yeah, I think people want to support Suffs and. And this is a category where they can do it. Same thing with score.
- [93:38]
A
Yeah.
- [93:39]
B
It's just a matter of, you know, will Stereophonic be such a juggernaut that they end up winning score and thus Suffs gets book? Or are people going to be swept up in the idea of voting for Hell's Kitchen, that they'll vote for it for book even if they don't love it?
- [93:52]
A
That's interesting.
- [93:53]
B
Yeah. I haven't spoken to anyone who's loved the book for Hell's Kitchen. I've spoken to some people who just said that they didn't care, which. That makes me mad. As a musical theater lover, I'm like, no, you can't. Not like one of the elements that makes it a musical.
- [94:07]
A
Sure.
- [94:07]
B
Yeah. But, like, one of the, like, major.
- [94:09]
A
Components, too, except separating the art from the artists.
- [94:13]
B
It was when that Evita revival came out, and everyone. Yeah. Elena Rogers only. Okay. But overall, I loved it. I'm like, how do you not like the Evita in Evita and still say you liked the show, right? Craziness.
- [94:23]
A
People are great. Peron, what are you gonna do? Yeah, Augustine 8.
- [94:29]
B
You know what I loved about this Evita? The dancing. The singing was okay, but the dancing. When. Yeah, that's what you go to Evita for the dancing.
- [94:36]
C
Yeah, I like. I thought they were just gonna have one suitcase, but then there's like. They have another suitcase. Really? Just one hall. There's another hall.
- [94:43]
B
Oh, man, there were so many halls. Another and another.
- [94:47]
A
Another and another. Yeah, I don't. I don't know. I guess my. My. I would personally pick the Notebook and I would guess that it's going to go to stuffs.
- [94:58]
B
I wouldn't be mad if it went to subs. I just don't think the book is Shayna's best work on it. But why not? Why not? They're. Every single one of these shows has a narrator in them. And that makes me. Actually, no. Subs is the only one that doesn't have a narrator. So for that I give it to Sephs. You suffs gets the Tony just for not having a narrator.
- [95:15]
C
A lot of narrators this season.
- [95:17]
B
There's like 5,000 of them. I can't stand it.
- [95:19]
C
Great Gatsby and Greg.
- [95:22]
B
So kind of sort of he. He narrates the beginning and then they stop and then he comes back at the end. But we'll include it for now. Great Gatsby heroes. Love. Sort of. With Conrad, Rick, Amora, Harmony, Hell's Kitchen, the Notebook, the Outsiders, Water for Elephants. I know that there's another one. Gutenberg. Sort of. No Gutenberg. Actually, Tommy doesn't have a narrator, but. But older Tommy does sort of come out every 10 minutes to be like, hey guys, here's the vibe.
- [95:51]
A
Yeah, still with us.
- [95:53]
B
Or I gotta.
- [95:55]
C
I have a weird Tommy thought that as a piece of theater, I feel like Tommy works best as just music. And in seeing we haven't seen this production, so this is based on having seen previous incarnations of Tommy, I feel like it kind of works better as just music where you are visualizing everything yourself rather than seeing it staged and produced and everything. Because I feel like the. The music and the lyrics are so vivid and emotive that physical productions become a little over stimulating for me.
- [96:37]
B
You will be incredibly overstimulated by this revival for sure. No matter how you feel about Tommy as a piece narratively, narratively speaking, Tommy has never worked for me. I. I do also kind of ride that show on the high of music vibes. But I also love the movie because it Is so insane. Oh, yeah, yeah.
- [96:59]
C
The baked beans.
- [97:00]
B
It's everyone's go to with the baked beans. The chocolate and soap that Ann Margaret has the biggest of orgies in. It's. If your Tommy doesn't have champagne in it, I don't want to see your Tommy.
- [97:13]
A
That's fair.
- [97:14]
B
That's all I want. And Margaret. And Margaret literally ate and we did not appreciate it enough. Okay.
- [97:25]
C
Last time, last movie, Tommy thought Oliver Reed has the worst singing performance in any movie musical.
- [97:32]
B
I think.
- [97:33]
C
I think he rivals Russell Crowe when he's just trying to, like, shout his way through Christmas. And he's like. And Tommy doesn't know what day it is. Like, he doesn't hit a note. He's not even in the same musical. He is just. It is a noise you hear outside, and you're like, what is that?
- [97:52]
B
I feel like Carol Reed, director of Oliver, saw that movie, went to Ken Russell's house and said, are you an idiot? Do you not realize that I cut all of Oliver's songs in the Oliver movie for a reason? The man can't sing. But also, it ended up being for the best because not having Bill Sykes sing in Oliver makes him even scarier because you never know what he's thinking. I love that movie.
- [98:16]
C
But wait, are they related?
- [98:18]
B
Yeah, I think he was a nephew.
- [98:20]
C
Oh, my gosh. I never knew that. That makes sense.
- [98:23]
B
Don't quote me on that. I'm. I'm. I'm pulling out a factoid that I think I remembered from, like, 15 years ago.
- [98:29]
C
Bill Sykes is a nepo baby, huh?
- [98:32]
B
Yeah. Can you believe Oliver Reed? Nepa baby. Handsel him.
- [98:37]
A
Never work in this season again.
- [98:39]
B
The thing about Tommy is, like, he can't. He can't sing at all. But he's so. Wait, wait, what did you say? I missed it.
- [98:45]
A
I said he'll never work in this town again.
- [98:47]
B
Yeah, not. Not in this town or any other town.
- [98:50]
A
No.
- [98:51]
B
Or poor Oliver. He could not be more dead. But I. True, he is. He's. He's. I think he's still fun in Tommy because of his weird face and his good acting. Yeah. He commits so hard to not being able to sing. Like, he doesn't let it bother him, so he just go. He goes for broke. Tommy, can you hear me? Tommy? Like, what he's doing. Tommy, can you hear me? Because he can't hit notes. He's just saying it in different cadences to make.
- [99:18]
C
It's like he's doing an acting exercise.
- [99:21]
B
Tommy, can you hear me? Tommy, can you hear me? It's. It's great. Oh, God. A lesson in audacity. All right, so that was book.
- [99:30]
A
Yeah. You're up.
- [99:31]
B
Oh, God damn it.
- [99:32]
A
Okay, Sorry.
- [99:34]
B
Direction of a musical. We have Maria Friedman for Merrily We Roll Along, Michael Grief for Hell's Kitchen, Lee Silverman for Soups, Jessica Stone for Watter for Elephants, and Danya Taymor for the Outsiders. I am going to say, because I think it's pretty easy here, that Maria Friedman is going to win for Merrily.
- [99:58]
A
I think so.
- [99:58]
B
My hot take is I would give it to Daniel Taymor for the Outsiders.
- [100:04]
A
Okay.
- [100:05]
B
I think both of them do similar things. Actually, Danya and Jessica Stone do very similar things, but I think Danya is a lot more successful, which is that they take material that's like. Danya has, like, solid material, if not incredible material, whereas Jessica Stone has bumpy material, and they both just, like, work magic with it. Maria, I think, does a really good job of making Mary Lee overall work. What keeps me from voting for her is there are. There's one performance that I genuinely don't like in the show, and I do blame Maria for that one performance that I find mixed, which I still blame Maria for. And then two staging moments that I fully want to go up to and be like, no, you need to change that right now. And I'll tell you guys what, they are off mic.
- [100:48]
C
Oh, yeah, I want to know some men.
- [100:50]
B
Oh, actually, this one isn't a staging thing, but I will say it openly. I do want to side eye Maria for the end before they go into the our time scene and they're doing that last Merrily We Roll along transition and little Frank Jr. Sings the last Wo ling a wang, a wang. And everyone goes, aw. And I go, no, get it off.
- [101:11]
C
Not the time for aww.
- [101:12]
B
If you're going to sing Sondheim, you're gonna sing these R's. I don't care who you are and what age you are. And also, those children all can say their Rs in real life. Maria made them get rid of their R's, and I hate that manipulation.
- [101:27]
A
Sure.
- [101:27]
B
Yeah.
- [101:28]
A
Yeah.
- [101:28]
B
That's just me. That's me. That's me being a bitch.
- [101:30]
A
That's fair.
- [101:31]
B
Yeah. Anyhow, those are my picks.
- [101:35]
A
I agree. I think it's going to be rally.
- [101:37]
B
Yeah. Okay, then. Moving on. Will do.
- [101:41]
C
Direction of a play. We haven't done direction of a play. Daniel Akin for Stereophonic. Anne Kaufman for Mary Jane. Kenny Leon for Hurley. Victoria is a non Confederate Romp through the cotton patch. Lyla Neugebauer for Appropriate and Whitney White for Jaja's African hair braiding. I was such a huge fan of Appropriate. I thought the, like, the tempo of everything, the way that it constantly, like, manipulates how the audience is feeling. I would. I would vote Appropriate. I know that the way Stereophonic is being received, I think Stereophonic will win.
- [102:22]
B
I think so, too. Although I think Neula Lila is giving it a run for its money. Yeah, Rachel.
- [102:29]
A
Yeah, I agree.
- [102:31]
B
I also just want to say, yet again, I think that this is a stellar category.
- [102:34]
C
Yeah.
- [102:35]
A
Yeah.
- [102:36]
B
Not a single thing that I am mad about. I would have loved to have found room for Sam Gold for Enemy of the People, but everyone here is worthy. It's all. All pros, no cons. I love every single one of these nominations. Anne Coffin's work in Mary Jane is stunning. Whitney White's work on Jaja was so fun. And, like, these are also shows that have phenomenal ensemble work, and I think that that's really wonderful direction. I say that as we've now come off of the direction of a musical category where some of these directors, I thought, didn't have the strongest ensemble work. So for this category, I'm like, yeah, no, they're all wonderful, and I hope that they all go out for, like, the biggest of steak dinners the, like, week before the Tonys, and they're like, can we just toast each other? Because we're all amazing.
- [103:20]
A
Yeah, we did really good.
- [103:22]
B
Yeah. Like, I. I really want all of them to get drunk together and be like, guys, guys, guys. We're kind of the tits and. And just have that. I, like, I want them to be the new Brat Pack. It's a. It's a grade five.
- [103:37]
A
Yeah.
- [103:38]
C
Yeah, I. I like this. Real quick. Can we pause for a sec? And I'm just gonna use the restroom.
- [103:45]
A
Yeah, sorry.
- [103:46]
B
Oh, okay. I was about to say. What did I say that was offensive?
- [103:49]
A
Will, you're done.
- [103:52]
C
Your opinion and I. Yeah, go, go.
- [103:55]
B
Go, go do your thing. Rachel and I will continue talking. Let me pause the recording for a second. So, yeah, we just did director of a play.
- [104:06]
C
Yes.
- [104:06]
A
So that was.
- [104:07]
B
Well, so that. That was Will. Yeah. So next. Next one up is Raquel.
- [104:11]
A
Let's do lighting design of a musical.
- [104:14]
B
Yeah.
- [104:15]
A
Brandon Sterling Baker for Illinois. Isabella Bird for Cabaret the Kit Kat Club. Natasha Katz for Hell's Kitchen. Bradley King and David Bengali for Water for elephants. And Brian McKevitt. McD. Sorry. Mac Devitt McDevitt and Hannah S. Kim for the Outsiders.
- [104:37]
B
Yet again, in my opinion, awesome category.
- [104:40]
A
Yeah.
- [104:41]
B
Would have loved to found room for Here Lies Love, but otherwise, I have no notes.
- [104:44]
A
Yeah, Yeah, I agree.
- [104:48]
C
Was it Natasha Katz for Here Lies Love?
- [104:50]
B
Was it.
- [104:51]
A
I'm not sure.
- [104:52]
C
I can't remember now.
- [104:53]
B
But, I mean, when in doubt, just say that. It's Natasha Katz.
- [104:57]
A
I mean, when you're a jet.
- [105:00]
B
Yeah. When you're. When you're a cat. Here, A cat. Samba way. All right, so what are we. What are we thinking, kids?
- [105:06]
A
I'm thinking Cabaret again. It's a tough. It's a tough one, though. I feel like it could go to anybody. But I just feel like Cabaret was such a spectacle and its use of light stuck. I'm trying to think of the things that we did have seen. The use of light for storytelling stood out to me the most, but I could be wrong. I don't know. How do you feel?
- [105:40]
C
I agree with Cabaret in this category. I loved what they did in Illinois, but the way that, like, in that final shot. Final shot, the final moment of Cabaret, where they have the circle of people and then the MC is in the center, and then he disappears, that's just done through lighting. I thought that was very effective.
- [106:04]
B
Yeah, it's. I'm. It's. I. I'm just not sure where everyone's allegiances are gonna lie, because I could see this being a sort of weird, easy win for Hell's Kitchen, although I personally wouldn't do that. I mean, I think outsiders also, there's a reason to vote for all of them. I think ultimately we can get rid of Water for Elephants. Because while I think that lighting design is really special, I just think that show is going to kind of come up blank on Tony night. And I think that Illinois is going to get choreography and maybe orchestrations. I don't think they're going to get lighting design. Again, a shame. I think the lighting design is very ethereal and beautiful. So it is down to Cabaret, Hell's Kitchen, and Outsiders. Of the three, I would choose between Cabaret and Outsiders. Outsiders has some really incredible lighting. It's also a very hot lighting design. Like, you really feel the dry heat of Oklahoma at that time.
- [107:02]
A
Yeah.
- [107:02]
B
But Hell's Kitchen is very showy lighting. Like a lot of singular strobe spotlights and things like that, and a lot of projection work, which I'm sure people will. People, I feel like, take that into consideration with the lighting design a lot. But no, no. I feel like Cabaret is just.
- [107:21]
A
So, would projection be in. In the scenic category?
- [107:24]
B
It would be. It would be. But I feel like it gets like. You vote for your. For scenic with projections in mind. But I feel like people still take projections into consideration when they're thinking about the lighting design.
- [107:35]
A
Yeah.
- [107:36]
B
I mean, if there's something I learned from Corey Paddock for my interview, you know, with. With projections only look as good as the lightning design allows it. So you have to kind of work in tandem.
- [107:44]
A
That's really fair. Yeah, that's really fair.
- [107:47]
B
And, you know, Natasha is a brilliant designer who has won many times. It could also just be that everyone's like, yeah, no, it's great work. But, you know, it's Natasha, She. She always does great work. Let's give it to somebody else. Yeah, sure. She's. She's one of those few lighting designers right now that people just know by name. Yeah. Because she works so much.
- [108:06]
A
No, I'll say.
- [108:07]
B
I'll say for now. Cabaret. I think that's a very atmospheric design.
- [108:13]
A
Yeah, that's where I'm at.
- [108:14]
B
Yeah. All right. Is it me now or is it.
- [108:16]
A
It is you.
- [108:17]
B
Okay, great. So let's do lighting design of a play. We have Isabella beard or bird for an enemy of the people. Oh, God ameth. John Shaker for Prayer for the French Republic. Jian Chang, stereophonic. Jane Cox, appropriate. And Natasha Katz for Gray House. Again, Natasha just keeps popping the up, Although so has Isabella for an enemy of the people. Also. Busy, busy, very busy. Books and blessed. I'm. I'm gonna say this is between stereophonic and appropriate, because stereophonic has a very naturalistic lightning design. Until it doesn't. And when they do the not realist, the not naturalistic lighting design, it's very effective and very cool and very specific. Appropriate, though, does a lot of shadow play and play with candlelight. And they also do an effect with the book of photographs. Every time somebody opens it, there's a lighting effect that they do that's really impressive. So it's both a subtle lighting design and a showy one at the same time. So I'm gonna. I'm gonna come down on the side of appropriate for now. In a week, I'll say stereophonic, but right now, I'm saying inappropriate.
- [109:35]
A
I think that's totally fair.
- [109:37]
B
Yay. Rachel, did you see appropriate?
- [109:40]
A
No, I was sick.
- [109:42]
B
Always sick. This one Dainty?
- [109:44]
A
It was. Yeah, that's. That's me. Dainty.
- [109:49]
B
Yes.
- [109:49]
A
No, I wasn't feeling well that night. I'm. I'm still planning on seeing it before it closes, but Will took a friend instead of myself.
- [109:57]
C
All that said, I mean, it really has one of Them. It has been one of my favorite things I've seen in a long time. I just was so blown away.
- [110:04]
B
Did you see it at the Hazer? At the Belasco?
- [110:06]
C
At the Belasco.
- [110:09]
B
Annette Benning's daughter.
- [110:13]
C
She's an Ed Benning's daughter.
- [110:14]
B
Yeah.
- [110:15]
A
We're learning so much about Nepo babies.
- [110:19]
C
Any relation to Oliver and Carol Reed?
- [110:22]
B
Yeah, they're all related. Are you kidding me? Nick Cage, too? Nick Cage, Ben Platt, they're all. It's all one big family. That's what woke Hollywood doesn't want you to know.
- [110:29]
A
All Coppolas, they just changed the last name.
- [110:34]
B
It's absolutely true. Absolutely. Jamie Lee Curtis is there, is their aunt. It's, it's. They're all. They're all just related, I'm telling you.
- [110:40]
A
And Dolly Parton.
- [110:44]
B
All the Cyruses, they're there. It's. It's crazy. I tell you, it's crazy. No, she's. Yeah, it's baby Ella Beatty, I think is her name.
- [110:53]
C
Oh, yes. Okay. Yeah, that makes sense.
- [110:57]
B
Yeah. Plays a River Man.
- [111:00]
C
This has been the month that I learned Warren Beatty is related to people. Because I didn't know that he and Shirley MacLaine are siblings until the other day. And I was like, what?
- [111:07]
B
I know, right? There are modern day Joan Fontaine and Olivia de Havilland.
- [111:11]
C
Oh, my gosh.
- [111:12]
B
Wow.
- [111:13]
A
Insane. That was an insane sentence.
- [111:16]
B
How dare you. I've said way worse things in the last hour alone.
- [111:21]
A
You're right.
- [111:23]
B
Yeah.
- [111:23]
C
No, I thought she was great. I think I saw her pretty early into the Belasco run too. Yeah, I liked everybody.
- [111:34]
B
River is such an odd character because she's basically designed to be the butt of the joke for so long. And El did that very well. But when people ask me, you know, oh, how is Elle? How do you think? Or. And how do you think Elle is going to be? I'm like, what? You kind of just have to play the ridiculousness straight and let everyone else be amazing around you. Yeah, yeah.
- [111:54]
C
It's a tough one to stand out from, but I loved the quiet moments she had, like with the, with the other daughter, the one who keeps going. I'm an adult.
- [112:07]
B
She was in Greyhouse this year. That girl. Wow. Yeah, she. She was one of those.
- [112:12]
A
I saw Gray House and he didn't.
- [112:14]
B
Ah. What did he think of Greyhouse?
- [112:19]
A
I don't like to be afraid. So I had a really. And I also have like leg trauma. Like, I had a lot of surgeries when I was a little kid. So that whole like, ending scene where he's like the carving. Yeah. I was hysterical. And the extra bummer was I saw a really early performance of it, and the director was sitting right behind me. And I knew he was a Chicago guy, so I had. And I grew up in the suburbs of Chicago and did a lot of work in Chicago as a kid. So he and I were chatting it up. And then I just know that for the last 15 minutes of the play, he saw me just deeply sobbing, and we made eye contact at the end, and then he looked away really fast, and I was like, I'm very embarrassed. Which, you know, it is. It is what it is.
- [113:09]
B
The director.
- [113:11]
C
I think there's the playwright.
- [113:12]
A
Oh, what? Did I. Did I say director? I meant.
- [113:14]
B
Yeah. Because I was gonna say if you're. If you're talking about Joe Mantello right now.
- [113:18]
A
No, no, no, no.
- [113:18]
B
Sorry.
- [113:19]
A
Yeah. No, not Joe Mantello. No, the writer. Sorry, that's my fault.
- [113:22]
B
I was gonna say, like, if it was Joe Mantello, then I needed you to say Joe Mantello. For my own set.
- [113:26]
A
Yeah. No, no, no, no, no. I would have. That's funny. No, no, the playwright, I think, for what it was, it was very cool. I think it should have opened in the fall and been, like, a fun, spooky time. Halloween and not, like a summer show. I had many thoughts, but overall, I found it to be incredibly triggering and hard to watch. But that's just me. Yeah, everybody, that's just me.
- [113:55]
B
I will say, my friends and I, when we saw it, we didn't know what to make of it. We all went online after we went to a bar afterwards, and we all went on our phones and looking up what everyone. Everyone's theories were about the play. Because we were. We all had no idea. Yeah, but, yeah, I mean, like, I.
- [114:10]
A
Understood what they were going for. I just, like, I was like, oh, ouch.
- [114:16]
B
Now, that carving scene was a lot. And we. We were in the balcony and we all were going, ah.
- [114:20]
A
Oh, man. Yeah. Even I'm getting, like, sweaty thinking about it. So.
- [114:25]
B
So we'll stop thinking about it.
- [114:26]
A
I gotta move on. I gotta move on.
- [114:27]
B
Yeah, let's do sound design of a play. Oh, wait, this isn't my choice to pick. This is Will's choice.
- [114:35]
C
Let's do best sound design of a play.
- [114:37]
B
Okay, if you say so, Will.
- [114:40]
C
We have Jaja's African hair, Justin Ellington and Stephanie. Sorry. Barela for Jaja's African hair braiding. Leah Gelp for Mary Jane, Tom Gibbons for Gray House, Bray Poor and Will Pickens for appropriate And Ryan Rumery for Stereophonic. As I've said, I loved Appropriate. I think it's going to go to Stereophonic.
- [115:06]
B
It has to.
- [115:07]
A
Yeah. It's. It was nominated for score. It's the same. It's like Justin Peck at choreography. It's like it's gotta. I can't imagine a world where it doesn't.
- [115:16]
B
And like this. Again, this was a play that was written to win this category.
- [115:21]
C
Yeah, it's. I mean, the name of the play itself, it evokes that.
- [115:28]
B
Absolutely. Yes. No, absolutely. I also want to say that the sound design for Mary Jane is also really fantastic. I don't know if either of you have seen it yet or if you intend to, basically. Do you know the basic premise of the. Of the show?
- [115:45]
C
I. I don't.
- [115:48]
B
So she plays a woman whose two and a half year old son Alex has a few debilitating illnesses. And I don't think they ever specifically say what they are, and if they do, it's very quick. But ultimately, you know, he. He has a lot of injuries from his birth, from being born extremely premature. And then that has developed into other things. And we never see her son. He's always in his bedroom or in other places. But there is a lot of sound that comes from his room and comes from, you know, his hospital bed and things like that. And it's just, it's so subtle, but it's done in a way that we're always aware that he's around. Without making it a huge thing. Yeah, it's, it's, it's really well done sound design. But no, it's. It is stereophonic. It was written to. In this category. And if they don't give it to them, then I'm like, what are we doing here?
- [116:37]
A
Yeah, what's the point?
- [116:39]
C
Yeah, there's a. Back to appropriate for a sec. There's a. In the description of that first moment in, in the stage directions, it says that the cicadas should go on long enough that the audience starts to get uncomfortable and is like, is this the whole play? And that definitely was the case. I thought that that was a very fun moment for everyone to be like, what the hell? And you could feel it in the room. It felt.
- [117:13]
A
Cicadas.
- [117:14]
B
Yeah.
- [117:15]
C
With cicadas for, you know, best supporting insect in a play.
- [117:19]
A
Big year for cicadas. They're back in Illinois right now.
- [117:22]
B
Yeah. I say the cicadas inappropriate. Best insects in a play. They are dominating over the cockroaches in mother play, let me tell you.
- [117:30]
A
And the Butterflies in Illinois.
- [117:32]
B
Butterflies in Illinois. Yeah. And then the water for elephants.
- [117:35]
A
It's huge year for bugs.
- [117:37]
B
Huge year for bugs. And you know the bug that took Tyne Daily out of doubt? Huge year for bugs.
- [117:46]
A
Foul.
- [117:48]
B
I'll never get over it. I was so, so upset. She was my reason to see this show. She was what made me so excited. And then some dumbass illness had to put her in the hospital for two weeks.
- [117:58]
A
Terrible.
- [117:59]
B
Yeah. This is why I hate society. Because society did this.
- [118:03]
A
Yeah. To you specifically.
- [118:05]
B
It's always done to me. Rachel. Have you. Have you not. We've known each other a while now. You know, this.
- [118:09]
A
This is true. That's why I said it.
- [118:14]
B
No nuance.
- [118:15]
A
I don't mince words.
- [118:17]
B
No.
- [118:17]
C
Daly is your Mama Rose, right?
- [118:19]
B
She is. She's my favorite Mama Rose. That. That cast recording is the. That and the original were the two that I grew up on. And I would listen to the Tyne Daily. One more because Eric Stern conducts like a mofo. And that overture in the Tyne Daily Recording is fire. And I will not be taking questions.
- [118:36]
A
At this time and nor should you.
- [118:40]
B
Never will again. All right, Rachel, we've got four big ones left. You've got musical play, revival of musical and revival of a play.
- [118:47]
C
Okay, we are fully on the last page now.
- [118:51]
A
Okay, let's do it. Let's do musical revival. Okay, so cabaret, the Kit Kat Club, Gutenberg, Merrily Tommy. Is that it?
- [119:10]
B
That's it. Okay, now talk to me. Why you think Gutenberg's gonna win?
- [119:14]
A
Oh, well, I mean, it's a hat on a hat.
- [119:21]
B
How dare you.
- [119:22]
A
I know.
- [119:24]
B
You come for me with my Tyne Daily Bug joke, and then you come into my house with that.
- [119:30]
A
You invited me.
- [119:32]
B
I sorted.
- [119:33]
A
You had to know. No.
- [119:35]
B
You made fun of my decor. And then you put up a picture of a horse drawn by Lily Jean to make up for it, and I. For that, I say no, ma'.
- [119:44]
A
Am. Nay. Got him.
- [119:49]
B
Got me. Dang. What?
- [119:52]
A
Pardon?
- [119:53]
B
What am I. What is that? What are you, all of you? A bunch of horses? Because I'm surrounded by a bunch of naysayers.
- [119:58]
A
That's right. Wordplay. Laughing makes the coughing worse. I'm so sorry. They give it a compliment.
- [120:07]
C
She's got a lot.
- [120:08]
B
The cough grow worse.
- [120:09]
A
Yes. Not both of you telling an equally good joke at the same time. I. Best revival for me is Merily. I think that's a slam dunk. Easy.
- [120:25]
B
Yeah. No, it's. It's. It could not be an easier category to predict.
- [120:29]
A
Beloved stars. Sold out. Exciting. Sondheim. Yeah. It's got all of it.
- [120:37]
B
It's got a lot of stuff going for it. I think there are elements of the other three that help them, but everyone knows that it's, that it's merrily so.
- [120:47]
A
I even have the conversation, and I think rightfully so.
- [120:50]
B
Yeah, well, why are you trying to have a conversation about it? You know?
- [120:53]
A
Yeah. What's going on?
- [120:56]
B
Boo.
- [120:56]
A
Boo. This man.
- [120:57]
B
Okay, how about this man coming in hot saying, here lies love, should be a revival and should win. How dare you.
- [121:05]
C
I wasn't even gonna go there, but no, I, I, I still think merrily.
- [121:10]
B
No, it's, it's definitely merrily. What I. When the nominations came out, I did a ask me anything with the listeners and, and said, you know, put in your hot takes on the nominations. And someone wrote, it's, it's all anonymous, but someone wrote, you know, the Wiz not getting a revival nomination is racist, and I don't care what you have to say about it. And my response to them was, well, have you seen this production of the Wiz? Because unless you've seen it, you can't tell me that it deserved a nomination. And then I saw it and I think the four nominees are correct. That's what I'll say. Bye. Bye.
- [121:45]
C
I think the Wiz should have been for best best book. I think with as much as was different for this production, that the. I think Amber Ruffin did a really, really good job of making the show feel contemporary without feeling like it's about.
- [122:03]
A
To be dated and funny. It was so funny.
- [122:06]
B
It's hard for me to figure out how I feel about the book because I agree with you and I was watching it going, I think Amber did a good job. Yeah, I don't love how this is being directed and acted spoken and so I had to kind of parse out the delivery from the text. And as I was doing that, which sounds like a lot of work, but I've got a Rain man brain and, and people and emotions make me uncomfy. So I'm able to just sort of parse away what people are saying from themselves as people. So I'm watching it going. I think Amber wrote a good book. I just don't like how it's being delivered. So I actually agree with you. I, I would put an Amber in book honestly over Hell's Kitchen or even over Suffs, but I, it need, it needed a little bit more of a, of a better setup, better presentation for it to really sell people on.
- [122:57]
A
I was very sad about the Wiz because I, like, deeply enjoyed it, and I'm like, if only it could have gotten out of its own way.
- [123:08]
B
Yeah. The show. That show is such fun and such a joyous time.
- [123:13]
A
Yeah.
- [123:14]
B
But you have to. I know you. You have to. You have to run with it. And I feel like this production wasn't willing to do that.
- [123:22]
A
That's what. Yeah, that's. That's my. My thought exactly.
- [123:26]
B
I mean, they cut the Tornado Ballet, Right.
- [123:30]
C
That's one of my favorite pieces of music ever. And Harold Wheeler.
- [123:33]
B
And I know that. I know that we gotta make sure that Deborah Cox earns her paycheck and all, but this production did add a pearl. Dirty.
- [123:39]
C
Yes.
- [123:40]
B
One number.
- [123:41]
C
Yes.
- [123:41]
B
Gave it to Deborah Cox.
- [123:43]
C
She's coming back later. Let her. Let her have a little more time off stage.
- [123:47]
B
Yeah. She'll go in her dressing room and steam for another hour. What? She's Deborah Cox. She'll do whatever she so pleases.
- [123:52]
A
Hour?
- [123:53]
B
Why not? Why not?
- [123:54]
A
Why not?
- [123:55]
B
And then they're like. It's like an Adipearl always comes back on at the end of the show. But I think they even cut her time on stage in Act 2 by half because she comes on with, like, a little spinny spin, and she goes, you had what it took all along. Oh, here's Glinda again.
- [124:09]
A
Bye.
- [124:10]
B
I was like, cute. You really just don't like this adapter. You wanna. You wanna make her feel ashamed.
- [124:16]
A
It's a shame.
- [124:17]
B
Yeah. But I will. I'll say this one thing, and then we'll move on. I did really appreciated the opening scene when Aunt Em comes on stage and says to Dorothy, oh, how's my little city girl? And she goes, don't call me that. And Adam starts looking out into the audience. Dorothy goes, what are you doing? She goes, I'm looking for who you think you're speaking to.
- [124:35]
A
Yeah. And she's right for that.
- [124:37]
B
Yeah, she's absolutely right for it. You tell the children when they're being assholes.
- [124:41]
A
Yeah.
- [124:42]
B
Yeah. I love that. That was a great line. All right.
- [124:44]
A
And the. The lines from the. The Two Guards Outside of the Emerald or the gates of the Emerald City, I thought were just, like, so, so fun.
- [124:53]
C
So much invented, they said.
- [124:55]
A
He said, you're littering and loitering, like, get out of here.
- [124:59]
B
It was great. It was great. Amber. Amber. I think I agree with you, Will. Amber did a good job. I just. I needed. I needed the show to be up to that. Yeah.
- [125:08]
A
Yeah.
- [125:09]
B
I mean, the voices were great. The. The vocal arrangements for Be a Lion Play the house down. Yeah.
- [125:14]
C
Moving that to the end of Act 1 instead of having it end with. What would I do if I could feel.
- [125:20]
B
Is that how act one ended?
- [125:22]
C
Yes. Yeah. Be a Lion is. And it's the four of them singing rather than just the lion.
- [125:27]
B
Dorothy and the Lion.
- [125:27]
A
Yeah.
- [125:28]
B
Yeah.
- [125:28]
C
Which I think. Really.
- [125:30]
B
Yeah. No, it's a. It's a good choice. It's a good choice. I think eventually they changed it because at least we changed it when I was in school, when I was the assistant director of the Wiz. Thank you very much. They really needed my. My say so, but when we did it, Be lion ended act one, but it was after the Emerald City, which was crazy. Yeah.
- [125:48]
A
It's interesting.
- [125:48]
B
Yeah. So act one was long, but let's see. Okay, so we have revival of musical revival of a play. We have appropriate An Enemy of the People and Pearly Victorious Non Confederate Romp through the Cotton Patch. Again. Solid category. Yeah. I think we have Appropriate, though. I think that's a very easy. Yeah. Yeah.
- [126:10]
C
But man, these three are also strong. So strong.
- [126:13]
B
Yeah. If any of them won, I would not be upset. Which I love the privilege of that, because that doesn't happen all the time.
- [126:23]
A
No. Pretty rare.
- [126:24]
B
Yeah. Even the ones where it's the majority of nominees, I'm okay with. There's, like sometimes one that I go, as long as it's not you, I'm okay. But anyway, will you. We have two big ones left.
- [126:36]
C
We have best play. We have Jaja's African Hair Braiding, Mary Jane Mother Play, Prayer for the French Republic. And stereophonic. I think it's stereophonic.
- [126:47]
B
I think it's going to be the cottage, I think.
- [126:50]
C
Oh, sure.
- [126:51]
B
I think Barbra Streisand is going to open up that envelope and say, something's written here in crayon. It's. It's. It was.
- [126:59]
A
I did that.
- [127:01]
B
It was Rachel Joyce all along.
- [127:04]
C
It's. It's. It's Melissa Etheridge's My Window.
- [127:09]
B
My Window. Interesting. We have best play Ben Platt live at the Palace.
- [127:18]
A
That happened after the cutoff. That doesn't even make sense. He said, I don't think my father, Mark Platt, would be very happy to hear you saying that.
- [127:30]
B
That the enjoyer of Toaster Strudel.
- [127:32]
A
That's right.
- [127:33]
B
Would be too pleased to be here about this.
- [127:35]
A
Yeah, yeah, yeah.
- [127:36]
B
You know, it's. It's. It's stereophonic. Although, I gotta say, I mean, none of them are gonna win but shout outs to Jaja's African Hair Braiding, which was so Joyful Shout out to Prayer for the French Republic, which was a very strong play, and then Mary Jane, which just broke my heart. It's a. It's a solid category. All right.
- [127:54]
A
And Best Musical.
- [127:57]
B
Oh, God.
- [127:57]
A
Hell's Kitchen, Illinois. The Outsider Stuffs and Water for Elephants.
- [128:04]
B
Yeah. Pressure's on. Lf.
- [128:07]
A
I know you know what I mean.
- [128:10]
B
Okay, well, so let's go backwards. Start with who you're most confident won't win and then go from there.
- [128:17]
A
I don't think it will be Water for Elephants.
- [128:22]
B
Mm.
- [128:25]
A
I. I don't know. I don't think it'll be Illinois. But I also wouldn't be shocked in a year. Sorry, I'm playing something in a year where there's so much so quickly. Illinois is so different that I feel like people could be like, well, nothing really stood out for me, but this thing did. Even though it's so. I don't know, it would. It's not my pick for sure, but I could see it happening. It would make me sad as a musical theater person for a dance show to win Best Musical, even though it's happened before, it's just not my cup of tea. I feel like in my heart of hearts, I feel like it's going to be either the Outsiders or Stuffs. And I don't really have a good reason other than like, that's just the. My intuition.
- [129:24]
B
That's how it feels.
- [129:25]
A
Yeah, that's.
- [129:27]
B
That's just how you feel. Yeah, I, I listen, I get that. I think. I do think it's among Hell's Kitchen stuffs and Outsiders. Of the five, Illinois is the one I liked the most.
- [129:39]
A
Yeah.
- [129:40]
B
I think it being a dance piece will turn people off. I think it being a limited run will turn people off. And it's just such an odd duck, and that will turn people off. I also think Water for Elephants isn't getting it. I think the thing with the Outsiders is it may not be quite good enough for some voters to. To go with it. They might think a little less of it because of it being off of a young adult novel. The fan base for it currently is kind of skewing towards younger women. And those fan bases have never really influenced the Tonys in a positive light. They've never been like, ah, yes, 13 year old girls are obsessed with this show. Let us vote for it. They've always kind of been discouraging of that, which is a shame.
- [130:23]
A
Right?
- [130:23]
B
Yeah.
- [130:26]
A
To grab the dog.
- [130:27]
B
Yeah. We'll had to go and care for their other child. I. I'm Gonna. I'm gonna say right now, I'm saying subs because I did predict it for book.
- [130:40]
A
Sure.
- [130:41]
B
But I have this sinking suspicion it could be Hell's Kitchen because Elysia Keys is campaigning so hard.
- [130:52]
A
Right.
- [130:53]
B
To the extent that, like, it's. It's not even fair. The advantages that Hell's Kitchen has by having Alicia Keys on, on their side with this because she can get events done that are so monumental and make voters just feel so cool about it.
- [131:08]
A
Yeah. I mean, even their box office opening, I went to just as like, as a, an observer. And of all the box office openings that I've experienced, that was like the coolest. I mean, she pulled up on a, like a branded double decker bus. They passed out treats. She signed posters. Like she did a big speech. Like it was very chic. Like it was very cool.
- [131:34]
B
Yeah. They're, they're, they are working very hard to be the moment. And. And to her credit, she is putting in the work for that.
- [131:42]
A
Yeah.
- [131:43]
B
I just don't like the show. So it's, you know, but hey, something winning at the Tonys, I didn't like. Groundbreaking.
- [131:51]
A
Groundbreaking.
- [131:52]
B
Yeah.
- [131:53]
A
So.
- [131:54]
B
My, my Lord. So I think right now I'm saying stuffs, but I think when I wake.
- [131:59]
A
Up in the morning and there's still time. But like, the narrative of like, it being a singular vision, like one person was like, this is the story that I want to tell. I think that in and of itself is such a strong reason to get behind it.
- [132:20]
B
But.
- [132:21]
A
But I don't necessarily think they're pushing that hard enough.
- [132:27]
B
No, I don't think they are. But also I. I was talking to a predictor a few weeks ago and we were saying how predictor? Yeah, like, like on Gold Derby. Yeah. Like, it's like his job is to do these predictions. You were talking about this and he had said that Suffs at that time was leaning with the narrative of it's important to see our show, it's important to vote for our show. You know, do the important thing. And he goes, that's never actually worked on voters. So you, you know, you want to steer clear of that narrative and go more with the whole, this show is good. We think you'll like it.
- [133:02]
A
Yeah.
- [133:03]
B
Because it makes, it makes voters feel less pressured into being guilted into something. So I'm hoping that's where Subs is currently at. I haven't really paid much attention to.
- [133:13]
A
The, like, campaigning of it all.
- [133:15]
B
Yeah. I've only recently been hearing about, honestly, like the hour, hour before we came on to do this recording was when I was told about, like, all the stuff that Alicia Keys was doing for Hell's Kitchen, I was like, oh, God. Like, that's. It just reminded me of the stuff that, like, Harvey Fierstein did for Kinky Boots, and that really helped them win a lot of favor. People liked the idea of being a part of a party. And my only real concern of how it'll affect Hell's Kitchen with Tony's is like, okay, so say they vote for it for musical. I'm trying to think of all the other categories they would have no problem voting for it for because it's. It's difficult to give a show best musical and, like, only one other award. You know, we have Strange Loop and we have two Gentlemen of our Own, and I think that's it. Everything else is usually three or four or even five.
- [134:04]
A
Right.
- [134:05]
B
And they're not getting director, so that bums them out. I don't think they're getting book. If they do get books, you know, Jack A Little Pill, One book as well, so what can you do? But. Which I don't know how you guys feel about Jack a Little Pill, but I thought it was nine seasons of Degrassi in two and a half hours and not in a good way.
- [134:22]
A
Yeah.
- [134:23]
B
But if they don't. If they can't win book and they can't win director, it just makes it tricky. Which is why I said the Jersey Boys, Malaya, Keisha, Lewis, maybe Corey, taking all the. Yeah, yeah. Giving them a solid three or four wins to get. Make it a more exciting winner.
- [134:42]
A
Yeah.
- [134:43]
C
So many nominations.
- [134:44]
B
Yeah, But. But having so many nominations, it just means you're that much more likely to keep losing, you know?
- [134:51]
A
Yeah.
- [134:51]
B
Think about Mean girls, but they're 12 and just constantly coming up empty.
- [134:55]
A
Yeah. They didn't win a thing, did they?
- [134:57]
B
They didn't win a thing. Scott's four boys didn't win a thing. Well, not winning a thing.
- [135:01]
A
That was.
- [135:02]
B
Listen, Scott Boys, on and on. Yeah. Scott's Row Boys deserved way more than it ever got. And I'm glad that we now, as a society, have acknowledged this. It took about a year or two.
- [135:15]
A
Yeah. It was so ahead of its time. It's crazy.
- [135:18]
B
Yeah. And people getting upset about it without having seen it or knowing what it was trying to do just made me angry.
- [135:23]
A
Yeah. Yeah.
- [135:25]
B
Yeah. That's why I hate. It's. It's. This is why I hate people with opinions, you know, because they don't. They don't use it properly.
- [135:33]
A
Well, thanks for having Us. Yeah.
- [135:35]
B
This is why I had you guys on, because you were my little tennis balls that I could just hit against the wall with my racket. Yeah. So that's.
- [135:42]
C
Challengers, please.
- [135:43]
B
Three tickets. Challengers. So listen, that's it. This is what we got here. We got. We got our. We got all of our predictions. I think. I think everything we just said is smart and insightful, and I will be changing all my predictions tomorrow.
- [135:55]
A
Great.
- [135:57]
B
But this is going to be the last episode for the next two weeks because I go to London.
- [136:04]
A
So exciting.
- [136:04]
B
I go to London on June 4th. It'll be my first time back in. In a few years. I'm very excited. So I'm gonna have to leave all of our listeners with this delightfully lengthy, humorous, sexually tense episode.
- [136:20]
A
Yeah, yeah, for sure. That's how I would describe this.
- [136:23]
B
With our mellifluous voices. I. Before we head out, we've got a couple of house cleaning things we got to do first. I have a couple of reviews that I got to read for the listeners because I do this every time. I do. I. When people write reviews, I read them out on the podcast and play a little underscoring of the Land of the Piazza Overture because I want to give people their. Their dues.
- [136:45]
A
Yeah.
- [136:46]
B
And okay, if you'll indulge me for like three minutes, you two, because I gotta. I gotta get through a couple of them.
- [136:53]
A
Let's do it.
- [136:54]
B
Okay. Cue the line of the Piazza Overture. Five stars. Matt loves to talk about musicals and we love to listen. There are a few things that I will happily listen to, slash engage with for four plus hours at a time, but Matt Kauflick and his podcast has joined those ranks. If you're looking to hear someone talk about shows like the Wild Party, both of them Violet and more, with wit, intelligence, and a dash of what the did I just listen to then? Look no further than Broadway Breakdown. Now, if you'll excuse me, I have to go listen to the Tesori series again. That's right, I did do a series on. Sorry, it was called Tesori Hour. Next up, the best Broadway podcast. I tend to only write reviews when something is truly exceptional. Broadway Breakdown certainly fits that bill, and Matt Koplik deserves that praise. I am a long distance lifelong fan of the Great White Way. At most, I see Broadway shows every few few years. For this reason, I am constantly searching for ways to connect to the theater community from afar. Discovering this podcast has been a true highlight of 2024 for me. Hearing the current Tony season as well as previous Works critically analyzed in such detail. This episode excluded, of course, and with such care, is everything I never knew I needed. Thank you for your fantastic, honest and hilarious insight. Mad your efforts don't go unnoticed or unappreciated. That. Okay, sorry, that one might make me cry. I. I always feel like everything I do goes unnoticed. So to have someone literally say that, they must have listened to an episode once where I said, what's the point of getting out of bed? And they said this. This is the point of getting out of bed. Especially in this time of my life where it's not as bad as it was once, but I still will cry, like, every couple of days for no reason. Do you ever get that way?
- [138:30]
A
Yeah, every day of my life.
- [138:32]
B
Why every day?
- [138:34]
A
Oh, because there's. What? No, this isn't about me. Move on.
- [138:38]
B
Okay? Move on. I didn't mean to put you on the spot, but I was like, rachel, you have everything. You've got a husband, a dog, and a cold. Like, what more could you want in this world?
- [138:50]
A
Two semi working lungs.
- [138:53]
B
You and JoJo Siwa. Okay. Oh, that's sad that that brought out your empathy. JoJo Siwa everything.
- [139:01]
A
Well, that's why I cry every day. I feel. I feel deeply for most Siwa.
- [139:06]
C
If you're nasty, run a big JoJo Siwa account.
- [139:10]
A
Well, don't tell them.
- [139:11]
C
Oh, sorry. It was a secret.
- [139:12]
B
Yeah, it was a Siwa secret. Okay.
- [139:15]
A
A siwa secret.
- [139:17]
B
Five stars. Love the Pod Broadway buzz @ its finest. In a recent episode, you and your guests mentioned that folks are generally not buying tickets in advance. This is true. Heading to New York City first week of July and I purchased. Oh, someone's asking for advice. They're using the repeat ask for advice first week July and have purchased some tickets in advance, but still have time for a few more shows and wondering is it better to wait to get tickets until the day or week of. Thank you. I always say buy in advance if you can.
- [139:40]
A
Yeah, yeah.
- [139:41]
B
If. If you're not seeing tickets available at a price you want ahead of time and you want to chance it, by all means. There's always going to be something. But I'm a big fan of buying in advance. Okay, I think we have now we. God. Okay, I'm gonna. I'm gonna go fast. We got. We got a couple more five stars. Best theater podcast. Exclamation point. That this is not only my favorite theater podcast, but my favorite podcast in general. Okay. Matt Koplik is extraordinarily insightful and intelligent in his thoughts Criticism analysis of shows far more than any other theater commentator I've read or listened to. Combine that with his great sense of humor and it's a joy to listen to his in depth. Hours long hours long episodes. I would highly recommend this podcast to anyone who's remotely interested in Broadway. Whether you are just getting into theater or you work on Broadway, you will learn a ton and have lots of of fun. Thank goodness for this podcast. Next up. Also, the whole reason I we have all these reviews, by the way, guys, is because I made it a challenge to the listeners because someone had asked for me to post a video of me singing and I said if we reach a certain number of ratings by the end of May, I will do it. And so all of these reviews flooded in and that is why my Instagram has that life of the party video, because all of these assholes went, oh, you thought we couldn't get to 225 or even get to 215. We're going to get to 226. So here we are.
- [140:57]
A
Listen. An incentive to end all incentives.
- [141:00]
B
Yeah, the next if we get to 300, I'll post a nude pick on Instagram. How about that?
- [141:04]
A
Well, hold on.
- [141:09]
B
Talk about three tickets to Challengers, please. I keep ruining Rachel. She keeps having to run off from the mic because she's laughing. It makes me happy. Five stars, baby. Insightful, clever, funny, gay Matt Koplik does it all. From breaking down Broadway shows from the past to giving thoughtful opinions of the current season. I know that Matt will give a true and honest opinion when it comes to all things Broadway. Brava. I don't know what you're talking about. I've been incredibly vague about my opinions on Mother Play. Next up, Broadway Breakdown and Matt Two thumbs up. I discovered Matt's podcast a few months ago and have gone through almost every episode available. Jesus christ. That's like 900,000 hours. Matt is a knowledgeable, witty and entertaining host who never holds back when it comes to voice voicing his opinion. Again, I don't know what you're talking about. I've been very vague about Hell's Kitchen's libretto. His knowledge of Broadway is uncanny and he makes even shows in which I have no interest involving and fun. Wait, wait, I have no in that I have no interest in involving and fun to listen to. You'll get hooked on Matt and Broadway Breakdown. Don't get hooked, just get like me. That's all I want. I want people to like me. Last one obsessed with this show. I see a lot of Theater. And when we got close to the Tony nominations this year, I was eager to listen to someone else's thoughts on this season. You definitely gained a fan this year and I can't wait to continue hearing your rants and opinions about all things theater. I have never ranted a day in my life. I don't know what this person is talking about. I am short winded and I am meek and mild. I don't say anything to anyone about anything. But that's it.
- [142:37]
A
So strange that all of these reviews are so off.
- [142:40]
B
They're so off. They love the podcast and yet they don't understand me or who I am or what I do. No, I miss the days when people said Judy Kuhn would hate you. And I said, yeah, that's the review that gets me. They go, five stars, Judy Kuhn because they understand. They say, I love the podcast, but. But Judy Kune would. Would never want to meet you in a dark alley. Five stars. Sally Murphy thinks you're a freak. That's what. That's what the reviews I want are.
- [143:05]
A
To be known is to be loved.
- [143:08]
B
Is that passion?
- [143:09]
A
I don't know. Yeah. Yeah, for sure.
- [143:11]
B
I wish I could forget you. I don't know how I led you so far inside my mind.
- [143:14]
A
I believe it was James Joyce of.
- [143:17]
B
James Joyce is the Dead.
- [143:19]
A
Sure.
- [143:21]
B
Wow. I'm sorry, did you mean. Do you mean the band the who or do you mean the who's? Tommy, like you need to speak in Broadway for me.
- [143:31]
A
You're right. Yeah, you're right.
- [143:33]
B
Yeah. Anyway, speaking of James Joyce's the Dead, we've come to the end. Ah, classic Rachel. And while this has been delightful, where can people find you if you want them to find you?
- [143:45]
C
You can find us on Instagram at the theaterlovers. It is Heater with an er, underscore Lovers. We wanted to make it as complicated as possible and we succeeded.
- [143:58]
A
Yay. Same with TikTok. You can find us an X.
- [144:03]
C
You can find us on Twitter. You can find us on Twitter.
- [144:06]
B
We're just at theaterlovers on the Q line in Brooklyn.
- [144:10]
A
You can find us in many places.
- [144:13]
B
You can also find me on the queue line but in Manhattan because ah, other direction.
- [144:17]
A
I'll be in a concert at 54 Below on July 3, celebrating 30 years of the Spice Girls with many, many other very talented men, women and non binary perform. And it's going to be an absolute blast. And Will's sister will be in the show as well, which is very exciting. And that's it. Off the top of my head. There's probably other things, but.
- [144:48]
B
Will, what are you doing?
- [144:50]
C
Oh, I'm just chilling, man.
- [144:52]
A
Just making memes.
- [144:53]
B
That's how you're contributing to society. Making memes and chilling.
- [144:56]
A
Yeah. Put it on his tombstone.
- [144:59]
B
That's a great tombstone to have. It's. It's succinct.
- [145:03]
C
Yeah, I. I once said that a person's most popular tweet should be on their tombstone. And shortly after saying that, I made a tweet about Pete Davidson. I.
- [145:18]
A
Okay, we're wrapping it up.
- [145:20]
C
We're wrapping up.
- [145:23]
B
Listen, I just spent, like, nine hours going through reviews, so you two can talk about whatever you want before we get to the end.
- [145:30]
C
When Pete Davidson was kind of new on snl, I made a joke on Twitter that has accidentally contributed to some lore where.
- [145:43]
B
The.
- [145:43]
C
The joke was written about. Like, anybody with the name Pete, I said, recently stood next to Pete Davidson at a urinal. Let's just say he should be named Meet Davidson.
- [145:53]
B
And.
- [145:55]
A
And then.
- [145:58]
C
In that time of Twitter, you could search Pete Davidson. He wasn't on there, so not much would come up. That would always come up when you searched his name. He starts dating Ariana Grande. People like, who is Pete Davidson? And they find my tweet. And I got so many DMS of people asking me to describe Pete Davidson's penis, it felt like I. It felt like I was Vincent Van Gogh. But if instead of only selling one painting in my life, I made one tweet and it was about Pete Davidson's dick.
- [146:37]
A
So listen, put it on his tombstone.
- [146:39]
B
Yeah. Don't live the life you want. Live the life you admire. And that's the life I admire. I. I would love to be famous for my opinions on other people's penises. I think that would be.
- [146:51]
A
It's a long life. There is still time.
- [146:54]
B
There is indeed enough time.
- [146:56]
A
It's the new series for the podcast, for sure.
- [146:59]
B
I. I do love Winona Ryder, and therefore, I could change my last name to Ryder and have my whole shtick be about penises. There's a. There's a. There's a Jerry Blank joke in here somewhere with writing and Ryder, you know? Anyway, anywho, so Rachel's doing the Spice Girls, Will's talking about dicks, and I'm going to London, and that is where we're all at for the next couple of weeks. Yeah. If you want to follow me, I'm on Instagram only at Matt Hoplik. Usual spelling. If you like the podcast, you can give us a nice 5 star rating or Review. These reviews have truly been crushing it, to be honest. I love all of them. And you've all been incredibly well written and specific and I like to think accurate. I don't know. Every time someone writes a five star review, someone puts in a one star rating and they go, but write a review. Tell me what it is about me you find so despicable.
- [147:54]
A
Trolls.
- [147:55]
B
Yeah, I've had. I've had a couple of ratings that I found that were talking about my voice and my swallowing techniques and tongue clicks that were causing their misophonia to go off. Like, I. Like I swallow too loudly, and when I swallow, then my tongue clicks as I speak, so it's like kind of thing. And they go, that really triggers my misophonia. And I don't. I can't listen to the podcast because of that. And I go, okay, well, you know, that's a me thing, not a content thing, so I'll take that.
- [148:30]
A
That's.
- [148:30]
B
Since that's.
- [148:31]
A
Well, I. I mean, that's, I guess, valid. But that's crazy.
- [148:34]
B
It's valid if that's. If that's what your issues are with podcasts. But also, I've been. I've been hurt so much worse than that that I just go, okay.
- [148:43]
C
It'S such a. It's such a different problem for someone to have with you and. And to say like, and to be like, I'm out. It's like, you. You kind of can't fight that.
- [148:55]
B
It's like, okay, yeah, I don't know. When you've had someone literally go, huh, I could be with you, or do the incredibly difficult thing instead, that will be painful in the end. I think I'll do that rather than spend any more time with you. When someone does that choice to your face, being told, you know, your way of speaking hurts my ears. That's like Legos. Yeah, that's child's play. That's Legos. That's. That's a four piece puzzle. That's Where's Waldo. I went, yeah, you want. You. You just brought a gun to a bazooka fight. Yeah, okay.
- [149:31]
A
You're not gonna hurt my feelings. I have me.
- [149:34]
B
So I've gotten me to remind myself of all the other ways I've been hurt. Don't you worry, kitties. Rachel Will, we need to find a diva, a Broadway diva to close out for your episode that I will put in post.
- [149:46]
A
Who would you. Pearl Bailey.
- [149:49]
B
Yeah.
- [149:51]
A
Specifically of hello Dolly fame.
- [149:53]
B
But. But of course. Yeah, but of course. You. You said Pearl Bailey so quickly. That it brought me such joy.
- [150:00]
A
My favorite.
- [150:01]
B
Yeah. Well, she's great. She's.
- [150:03]
A
Yeah, she's great.
- [150:04]
B
Sorry. She was a great talent.
- [150:06]
A
Yeah. You ask. You ask why I cry every day. And. And sometimes it's just because I'm listening to Pearl Bailey sing hello, Dolly.
- [150:14]
B
Knowing that you'll never get to meet her.
- [150:16]
A
No. Just. It just. I just connect with it on such a level.
- [150:19]
B
I don't know.
- [150:20]
A
It's. It brings me to tears.
- [150:22]
B
Yeah. I. I think about sometimes how I'll probably never meet Elaine May, and I know she would like me, and I just want to meet her so I can be con. So I can confirm that she would like me.
- [150:34]
A
Yeah.
- [150:35]
B
But.
- [150:36]
A
Yeah.
- [150:36]
B
No.
- [150:36]
A
Well, there's got to be a way to make that happen to.
- [150:41]
C
To meet Elaine May.
- [150:42]
A
Yeah.
- [150:43]
B
Yeah. Somewhere.
- [150:45]
A
Trapper. Tricker.
- [150:46]
C
Oh, yeah.
- [150:47]
B
Not. Not trapping women.
- [150:49]
A
Rachel, it's okay if I do it.
- [150:56]
B
It's not problematic if a fellow woman does this.
- [150:58]
A
That's right.
- [150:59]
B
Yeah.
- [151:00]
A
That's feminism.
- [151:01]
B
That. Listen, feminism means supporting you in all of your choices, even if it means taking down another woman.
- [151:07]
A
I think she'd be fine with it.
- [151:09]
B
Oh, I think Elaine May would just be like, well, this is an interesting turn to my Wednesday. And.
- [151:13]
A
And, yeah, but, like, tricking her for me is like. Like, we invite her out to a fancy lunch, and you're just there. So that says. And then we pay for it. You know what I mean?
- [151:24]
B
So that's a wonderful trap. Yeah.
- [151:25]
A
Yeah. That's what I'm saying. It's fine. It'll be fine.
- [151:27]
B
Oh, yeah. I was thinking. I. I've been listening to too many true crime podcasts. Yeah.
- [151:32]
A
No, no, no, no, no, no, no. That's a. That's a dark road. We're not going down that one.
- [151:35]
C
I'm picturing, like, a big laundry basket propped up by a stick, and there's something under the stick to get her to go under it, and then when she gets to it, we pull the string.
- [151:47]
A
See, this is why women pick the bear.
- [151:51]
B
It's the. It's. We tempt her with a DVD of the director's cut of Ishtar.
- [151:55]
C
That's what I was wondering how we're going to get to an Ishtar joke. Yeah, there we go. Nobody else has the Criterion Channel, apparently.
- [152:03]
B
So we're gonna close out Pearl Bailey. We're gonna take two weeks off while I go to London and Rachel prepares for her Spice Girls, and Will does another meme about Pete Davidson's penis. And that was so fun. That was fun. We're on zoom, and Rachel did a movement that's making her camera do a lot of things. So balloons, confetti. Well, I got something. No.
- [152:25]
A
Try both. Do a Nixon tomorrow. No. Wow.
- [152:32]
B
I got confetti, and you guys got balloons. Balloons.
- [152:35]
A
No better way to end the episode.
- [152:37]
B
No better way. All right, thank you so much for listening, guys. We'll see you in two weeks for final final predictions as we wrap up this Tony series once and for all for 2024. Take it away, Ms. B.
- [152:54]
A
I'm glad to see you hang. Thank your lucky star. You know, you are looking great, Stanley.
- [153:04]
B
Listen, did you lose a little weight? I think you did, Stanley. Dolly's overwhelmed and overjoyed and over par.
- [153:14]
C
I hear the.
- [153:19]
A
Oh.