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Broadway Breakdown
2024 Tony Predictions (Part 2): PRE- Eligibility Rulings!! (w/ David Lynch)
01:59:04
Making Choices
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- [00:00]
David Lynch
Think of the prestige. No. Think of the respect. No, no, no. Think of the Tony. Tony, Tony, Tony, Tony.
- [00:12]
Matt Koplik
Hello all you theater fans both out and proud and on the DL. And welcome back to Broadway Breakdown, a podcast discussing the history und legacy of American theater's most exclusive address. Broadway. We are continuing with our Tony segments. I am your host, Matt Koplik, the least famous and most opinionated of all the Broadway podcast hosts and is a dear friend. His first time on the Breakdown, we are popping his cherry. Please welcome Broadway producer David Lynch. Hi, David.
- [00:40]
David Lynch
Hello. Thank you for having me.
- [00:42]
Matt Koplik
Thank you for coming. David, you have two shows represented this Broadway season.
- [00:46]
David Lynch
Yes, I have two shows. Enemy of the People and Harmony.
- [00:49]
Matt Koplik
Yes, you do. And then last year you had the Tony winning parade.
- [00:52]
David Lynch
Yes. Little show.
- [00:53]
Matt Koplik
Yes. Are we allowed to mention your upcoming show or no.
- [00:55]
David Lynch
Queen of Versailles.
- [00:56]
Matt Koplik
Yeah, I guess we are.
- [00:59]
David Lynch
Yeah. So next show is Queen of Versailles with Kristin Chenoweth in. In Boston this summer.
- [01:03]
Matt Koplik
I look forward to my invitation to go to Boston and of course, at the Emerson Colonial where I went to school.
- [01:08]
David Lynch
Oh, yes. Yeah, you can happily buy yourself a train ticket up there and let me know when you're coming and I will buy you a coffee before the show and that's what we'll do. I was very impressive. That introduction was very impressive of yours.
- [01:21]
Matt Koplik
How so?
- [01:21]
David Lynch
Because you just were, like, not even looking at anything. You were just rambling that entire monologue right off the cuff.
- [01:26]
Matt Koplik
I've said it so many times at this point. It's true. I used to have it written down and then I was like, I've said it 50 times. I know it by now. So it's there. Although I think I usually say theater nerds. I think I say theater nerds. And I choked today. And I said theater fans. So apologies, everybody. Sometimes that do happen. But, David, we're here to do some fun Tony predictions. This is going to be our second to last Tony prediction episode. Because even though the season is coming to a close, because April is so jam packed, we're recording this on Friday, April 19th. Yeah. So the day that Stereophonic is opening. And after today, Hell's Kitchen opens tomorrow. Cabaret the next day, Heart of Rock and Roll. After that, Mary Jane, Mother Play. Great Gatsby. And Illinois. Illinois, yes. Wait, Han, no. Cause Mother Play and Gatsby both open next Thursday. Illinois opens on a Wednesday, but another thing opens on. Oh, Uncle Vanya. They both open on that Wednesday, I believe.
- [02:17]
David Lynch
And something else might come in. Who knows at this point?
- [02:19]
Matt Koplik
Yeah, here we are. It's gonna Come in right in on Tuesday.
- [02:23]
David Lynch
I would love that.
- [02:24]
Matt Koplik
They're gonna go right into the Lyceum immediately.
- [02:26]
David Lynch
You want a plot twist, There you go.
- [02:28]
Matt Koplik
Oh, all y' all wanted a twist. Bam. I'd love that. But. So the only reason I bring that up is because even though reviews don't necessarily mean a show is going to get a slew of Tony nominations or not get a slew of Tony nominations, sometimes a show that people liked that but are not sure if they're allowed to give it some Tony love, if the reviews are generally positive, they can go, oh, we've been given permission. So something like Mamma Mia. Or and Juliet, which are very silly shows having majority positive reviews. Tony voters can be like, oh, we're allowed to give this some nominations even though it's silly.
- [03:02]
David Lynch
Right. Or if a show is maybe not that well liked in previews, but all of a sudden gets some like slam dunk reviews, it kind of puts that back in the limelight for Tony noms.
- [03:12]
Matt Koplik
Like Water for Elephants, which. Which very famously had a rough reception in its first half of previews. They did a whole lot of trimming. I saw it. I still was not the largest fan. I didn't dislike it. But they got maybe not across the board raves, but some very important positive reviews from certain critics. And that helps. And then Suss was just open last night, had a very respectful reception, so that definitely puts it in the making. And then of course, you know, a little show called Lempaica did not get great reviews. And so I think we'll be interested to see how that shapes up today. But so I say this because David and I are very well informed people. We see a lot of things. We both have our fingers in the sauce, but. But you know, things will change between now and the next recording of predictions. And it's actually going to be a pretty packed final week because this will be coming out Thursday the 25th, the last day of eligibility. And I think before that episode is going to be a interview I do with the lighting designer of Spamalot and Gatsby. And then a few days after this one comes out, maybe like the following Sunday is going to be our final prediction episode with a surprise guess that you. You'll find when it drops in your feed that day. But let's fuck that.
- [04:18]
David Lynch
Let's get into Patti LuPone.
- [04:19]
Matt Koplik
It's Patti LuPone. Let's get into it, David.
- [04:21]
David Lynch
Let's.
- [04:22]
Matt Koplik
Let's find a category and let's just start doing shit.
- [04:24]
David Lynch
Whew. Okay, so how do you want to go about doing this? Should we pick like one at random? Should we start big, start small? What do you think? Well, none of them are small, let's be clear. But maybe the ones that'll be earlier in the ceremony.
- [04:35]
Matt Koplik
There are no small categories, only small nominations.
- [04:37]
David Lynch
That's. There you go.
- [04:40]
Matt Koplik
Yeah, no, let's. Let's go big with an attention grabbing one and then we can sort of move our way back from maybe categories that not everyone's always thinking about.
- [04:49]
David Lynch
Sure. I mean, should we start at the top? Best musical.
- [04:52]
Matt Koplik
Fine, why not? Let's go for it.
- [04:54]
David Lynch
Yeah.
- [04:55]
Matt Koplik
Best musical. It's going to be five nominees, possibly six. If there's, you know, I think it's within three or four votes of the last two nominations, there can then be six, but it will be a five minimum. That is, that is a fact. And there's some belief, some QAnon conspiracy theories that because there aren't that many new musicals that everyone has been getting behind, you know, there hasn't. Even if there's a show that was well reviewed by critics, they don't always do well with audiences. So like Days of Wine and Roses and Here Lies Love are probably the most well reviewed new musicals this season. And audiences did not go. So that, you know, we don't have. The critics loved it, audiences loved it. The only thing we have with that with musicals is Merrily. But that's revival, so we'll get into that.
- [05:40]
David Lynch
Right, But I even add like a third dimension of stuff that grosses well. Right. Stuff that, like, has good financials because I'm not going to say which show it is, but it's based off of a, you know, movie from the 1980s where, you know, audiences, at least theater people didn't necessarily love it, critics didn't love it. But it's grossing fairly well. And so there's this kind of added element there.
- [05:59]
Matt Koplik
Yeah, it's grossing. It looks like it's grossing well. It's a very expensive show to run.
- [06:04]
David Lynch
Right.
- [06:04]
Matt Koplik
And I, from what I have been told from production standpoint is that they, the, they've had some very good grosses the last couple of weeks. The grosses they've had for like the last three weeks are the grosses they thought they were going to have throughout all of January, February, March, and that was not the case.
- [06:20]
David Lynch
Right.
- [06:20]
Matt Koplik
But yes, I know what. Everyone knows what show you're talking about.
- [06:23]
David Lynch
But yeah, let's get into Harmony.
- [06:24]
Matt Koplik
Yeah, it's Harmony. Okay, let's pick five musicals that we can see getting Nominations and why do.
- [06:30]
David Lynch
You want me to start? Do you want to start?
- [06:31]
Matt Koplik
Yeah, you start. Give me your five.
- [06:32]
David Lynch
So I would go with the Outsiders, the Notebook, Water for Elephants, Illinois and Suffs. Those are my five.
- [06:43]
Matt Koplik
I have the exact same five.
- [06:45]
David Lynch
Oh, my God. Oh, my.
- [06:46]
Matt Koplik
Twinsies.
- [06:47]
David Lynch
Oh, my God. Twinsies. I think that, you know, this is an interesting year. I feel like for the first time since probably the Dear Evan Hansen year, there's not a clear front runner for best Musical. Unless I'm forgetting something in there, you would know better than I do.
- [07:01]
Matt Koplik
No, that's about right. That's about right.
- [07:03]
David Lynch
And I think that they're all pretty much somewhat on the same plane. I think the ones that I have difficulty leaving out, specifically Days of Wine and Roses, is kind of like the sixth where I'm like, it could sneak in and honestly pick off any one of those five.
- [07:18]
Matt Koplik
I feel that way about Here Lies Love because. Well, and I only say this because I know that Heroes Love has love in the community. It was well liked.
- [07:27]
David Lynch
It just.
- [07:27]
Matt Koplik
People didn't go Days of Wine and Roses. I don't know what you heard, but I definitely was not always getting the best feedback from people on Broadway who saw it. Everyone. Everyone agreed that Kelly and Brian were incredible, and there was maybe more love for the score than not, but the show as a whole, people were kind of cold towards. So I. It could happen. I think it's sort of a. If there are enough nominators who respect it, it could happen. I know. I agree with you. I have. So I've got three shows sort of as outliers that could maybe happen, and they are Days of Wine and Roses, Here Lies Love. And the third is honestly, and maybe I'm biased, but Hard of Rock and Roll. And I only say this because we'll see what happens Monday when it opens, what the reviews are like. But, I mean, I've mentioned it on the podcast, I mentioned it on Social, but a lot of word of mouth from previews has been people being pleasantly surprised by how quality is. Like, not Days of Wine and Rose is deep, but for being a campy show. Like, they do it well.
- [08:28]
David Lynch
Right?
- [08:29]
Matt Koplik
And that could happen. But let's be honest, that's me, you know, sniffing paint and calling it a prediction.
- [08:36]
David Lynch
Well, and the show, you know, it's no secret that it's not financially doing that well. And so there is a world where nominators say, hey, the show, you know, really isn't that bad, and we want to kind of give it a leg up. And so let's give it a nomination if that might help it financially, versus other shows that may not need the help.
- [08:53]
Matt Koplik
Yeah. And it's also. It would be the fun nomination. Like, there's usually a show in Best Musical that gets nominated. That's the fun show.
- [09:01]
David Lynch
Days of Plant and Roses.
- [09:02]
Matt Koplik
Yeah, exactly. But, you know, last year and Juliet, I would say six. The year before that, Beetlejuice, SpongeBob. I mean, I guess you could say Come From Away was sort of like the first Crownhog. Day, that. Groundhog Day. Groundhog Day was fun for me, but.
- [09:18]
David Lynch
Not everyone else, because Andy Karl.
- [09:19]
Matt Koplik
Yeah, yeah. And also, you know, that nine part turntable. But sometimes, you know, people sometimes like to have variety in the best musical lineup. They'll try to have it be as spread out as possible. And I do think of the five we've mentioned, I hate to say it, but I do think Notebook is probably the most vulnerable. People want to say Illinois, because it's coming so late and it's not a traditional musical, but Illinois does have a lot of heat behind it. When it opens, it will have the best reviews of all the new musicals that are currently running. Yeah, I don't know. I think Notebook is vulnerable. And Days of Wine and Roses could get in there. Or Here Lies Love or Heart of Rock and roll or R5 is exactly what it's going to be. Because sometimes that just happens where it's so obvious that people go up a what if? And then the obvious ends up being what happens.
- [10:08]
David Lynch
Yeah, well, so the one that also, I'm curious your thoughts on, and I wouldn't write it off just yet, is Hell's Kitchen.
- [10:16]
Matt Koplik
Yeah, right.
- [10:18]
David Lynch
I did see it. Yeah. I saw the invited dress. So, you know, caveat. They're still tightening up the show. It was their first time running through it at the Shubert. And so, like, you know, there's a chance, though, that it's a big show. You know, I think Alicia Keys, obviously, you know, is a big star.
- [10:33]
Matt Koplik
Yeah.
- [10:33]
David Lynch
Very rarely do I think they nominate things because they're like, oh, we want this person to go to the Tonys or the Tony ceremony. Right. I don't really think they think like that, but I think, you know, she can't get nominated for best score because it's not a score written for the show. So her way of going to the Tonys would be through the. As a producer on the show, she'll still be invited no matter what.
- [10:52]
Matt Koplik
I think the producers, if they don't get a Best musical nomination, will still pay for performance and have her, you know, sing on it. Like Sarah Barrell was saying, yeah, that could happen. I have been very vocal on this podcast. I did not like Hell's Kitchen when I saw it. I think that book is objectively bad in a way that really just sort of undercuts all the good things about it, because there are good things about it. I think we've got three great central performances by those women, and we'll talk about that when we get to performance nominations. I think that it has a lot of really good choreography. I think half of that choreography shouldn't be happening when it's happening, which isn't to say that it's not done well. But you know the funeral scene, and you're like, why are you dancing right now? It's a fucking funeral. The statutory rape plot line is just kill it with fire. And so much narration that makes you want to just jump into the lake. And I'll be interested. I'll be interested to see. Because the reviews downtown were sort of mixed, and from everything I can tell, they didn't do many changes. They made some trims, but plot wise, it's the same. And that's gonna. I think that might infuriate some critics of, like, what did you do? Because one of the things that Suff's got with all of its reviews, even the reviews that were sort of mixed, like the Times, like the Post, and I think even, God, who was it? Maybe it was Vincentelli from, like, Chicago or something. There wasn't a third review where they all said, you know, it's not perfect. It's not great. It is good. They said. But I want to. They all go. Let me commend Shayna Taub for reading the reviews downtown and making significant changes, which I think they appreciated. So even the mixed reviews that stuff's got, it's like, oh, you can get some pull quotes out of me, by all means, Hell's Kitchen. It's like, oh, you didn't take any of our advice. Fuck you.
- [12:43]
David Lynch
Right? But let's, like, again, opens tomorrow. Hypothetically, let's say. Jesse Green, New York Times critics pick. Oh, my gosh, I loved it this time around. Like, it could totally still have time to sneak in there if it gets, like, great reviews. I don't know if that'll happen, but.
- [12:56]
Matt Koplik
If it does, I think, yeah, I think great reviews will help push the narrative of it being a front, maybe not a front runner, but of it being a contender because it's doing okay. It had a good first two weeks, and then this past week, it went under a mill, as did Gatsby. But we'll see. I mean, because it's a huge theater, too. Yeah. It's just. It's hard sometimes for. For. I mean, Tony nominators are not always influenced by shows that are doing well if they don't think the show is any good. In fact, they get very resentful. All you have to do is look at Pretty Woman, the musical, which we got eviscerated but was selling out nightly for. For like six months to nine months, and then got zero Tony nominations and then closed like five months after that. Trying to think other shows like Finding Neverland.
- [13:37]
David Lynch
Right.
- [13:38]
Matt Koplik
Chocolate Factory.
- [13:39]
David Lynch
And, you know, it's interesting. You know, I come about this from a producer perspective. I'm very numbers driven. You know, I am like, you know, see dollar signs in my eyes sort of thing. And I.
- [13:47]
Matt Koplik
Butt of coast.
- [13:48]
David Lynch
What'd you say?
- [13:49]
Matt Koplik
I said, but of coast.
- [13:50]
David Lynch
Yeah, sure.
- [13:50]
Matt Koplik
That's me saying, but, of course.
- [13:51]
David Lynch
Okay. Yeah. I didn't realize they said Butter Toast, and I was like, that sounds good.
- [13:54]
Matt Koplik
Butter Toast. That'll be my drag name.
- [13:56]
David Lynch
Oh, there you go. But, you know, I do think, especially post pandemic, there has been a rally of even if the show is not, you know, as artistically fulfilling as we want, it is getting people back to the theater. Right. And so I think in the one, you know, I'm not gonna say it's. I don't think it'll get nominated, but I wouldn't count it out as Back to the Future. I think it's too competitive of a year to get in, and I'd be surprised if it does. But, you know, I do think it is one of those shows where they put it on the Tonys broadcast and they say, hey, you know, average American who accidentally has the TV on watching the Tony Awards, Right. Like, this is a show you'd want to come and see and come back to the theater, come to Broadway. And I think that's a post pandemic argument, as the kind of general sentiment is Broadway is still recovering. Again, I agree with you that nominators are not thinking like that necessarily, but there's certain things I want to count out here.
- [14:51]
Matt Koplik
Sure. I think I would maybe say that line of thinking would maybe go more towards Gatsby than Back to the Future, because Gatsby is also selling pretty well. And if it's not necessarily making a buttload of cash because it's just so expensive to run, people are going. And I think there might be a bit More appreciation for that than for Back to the Future, but either one could happen. I think what's going to happen is there are going to be a couple of precursors that are going to give back to the future some love which will give people the thinking that it's going to happen. Like the Drama league, which nominates 20 musicals a year, and everyone's going to be like, oh, got a Drama League nomination for distinguished musical. It's like, yes, along with 17,000 other shows.
- [15:34]
David Lynch
Going to be my date to the Drama League Awards?
- [15:36]
Matt Koplik
Hell yeah. I was there last year.
- [15:37]
David Lynch
Yeah, I know.
- [15:38]
Matt Koplik
That's.
- [15:38]
David Lynch
I saw you there. Do you want to do it? My date?
- [15:40]
Matt Koplik
Let's do it. What are they this year?
- [15:41]
David Lynch
May 17th. It's the Friday, mid May, Something like that.
- [15:45]
Matt Koplik
Sure, yeah. No, let's go mine.
- [15:47]
David Lynch
Great.
- [15:47]
Matt Koplik
My, my. May at the moment is very clear.
- [15:49]
David Lynch
So me, you, and the creative team of Enemy the People.
- [15:53]
Matt Koplik
Phenomenal. I would love to meet Amy and tell her how much I love her work.
- [15:56]
David Lynch
She sits with Mary Jane. We'll see.
- [15:57]
Matt Koplik
She might, but she, she can do whatever she wants. But also, yeah, what privilege to be like, oh, my God, what table do I sit at? I got two shows on Broadway.
- [16:04]
David Lynch
No, well, the story. And you know, this story. But last year it was my first time at the Drama League Awards and when I was filling out like the form for tickets, I wrote. Yeah, you know, I'm on the. I'm on the team for Parade. And you know, there's shows have a lot of producers on them and. But I guess no one else wrote that. And so I ended up at a table with the, like, Jason, Robert Brown, Alfred Urie, Alex Joseph Grayson, who was in the show. It was this like. And I was like, oh, hi, I'm a producer on the show and I'm very overwhelmed right now.
- [16:33]
Matt Koplik
Yeah, you needed to be more confident about that because the moment you say, hi, I'm a producer of your show, they all would have just been, oh, yeah.
- [16:39]
David Lynch
And they were all very nice.
- [16:40]
Matt Koplik
I just licked your cheek.
- [16:41]
David Lynch
Yeah. Then I had like, you know, four glasses of wine in me and you know, everyone was like, when I met Audra and I was like, oh, right.
- [16:47]
Matt Koplik
That, that Audra Vid. My God, I've talked that on this podcast last year where you watched a bit happen. It was cute. And then it died very quickly. And then it just kept getting kicked. Then it got funny for a second when Will Swenson did it. And then people kept doing it just died, died, died. Anyway, but that a fun day.
- [17:05]
David Lynch
Anyways.
- [17:05]
Matt Koplik
Anyways, so. So that. Those are our five. We love it. Let's. Let me go to some technical categories for plays.
- [17:12]
David Lynch
Oh, you're, like, really going 180 now.
- [17:14]
Matt Koplik
Yeah, let's do it. Let's do it. Let's do sound design of a play, baby.
- [17:18]
David Lynch
Great.
- [17:19]
Matt Koplik
I'm going to do my five. I'm going to say stereophonic. Very easy. And my opinion, going to win. I would say Patriots. I would say Enemy the People. Probably sound so. Sorry, where am I at? Oh, yeah, yeah. Enemy the People. Patriots. Stereophonic. I'm gonna say appropriate. And then maybe Prayer for the French Republic. Although I would love to see. I've not seen Mary Jane or Mother play yet. I see Mother Play this coming Sunday and Mary Jane next Tuesday, which I believe is actually their opening night. I don't know how I had. How that happened. I know. I don't know. How did that happen to me?
- [18:03]
David Lynch
Friends with Rachel.
- [18:04]
Matt Koplik
Yes, Rachel. We are besties. She heard how much I loved her and. Are you there, Goddess? Me Margaret. And she invited me. What about you? Give me your five.
- [18:12]
David Lynch
You know, I. I'm not too familiar with this category. I think especially sound design of a play is a very interesting one because it's kind of a crapshoot. I think you're right about Stereophonic. I mean, that show has some pretty incredible sound design.
- [18:25]
Matt Koplik
And I mean, half of that show is about the sound.
- [18:28]
David Lynch
Right. And so, I mean, I imagine it's going to win that. I think you're. I would also. You said stereophonic Prayer for the French Republic. Appropriate. Enemy of the People and Patriots. I've not seen Patriots yet, so Patriots is pretty soundy.
- [18:42]
Matt Koplik
I will say that.
- [18:43]
David Lynch
Yeah, I would Maybe an Enemy of the People again. Bias. Love the show. It's not a big sound design show.
- [18:48]
Matt Koplik
No, I. But I think because they. The way they incorporate music is what I'm thinking. You know what I mean?
- [18:53]
David Lynch
Interesting, because I was going to say Pearly Victorious.
- [18:55]
Matt Koplik
Possible. The thing about Pearly Victorious was that from what I could tell, there were no body mics and no real sound effects. But they do use some music from time to time, because if it's not. If you're not using sound effects, then it's about how the music is incorporated and how well you can hear everybody. And I will say, for Enemy the People, even though it doesn't sound like anyone's mic'd, you can hear every word from every seat of that theater. So that obviously there is something going on with the sound design there that's helpful. That is. And Appropriate does actually have some sound effects that they use every time they look at the pictures and they do the effect. Did you see appropriate?
- [19:30]
David Lynch
Yeah. You're talking about, like the very final moment of the show.
- [19:34]
Matt Koplik
There are certain moments in Appropriate where there's like a lighting and sound bit and it happens usually when people open the folder to look at their grandfather's photos.
- [19:42]
David Lynch
Right. Okay. I thought you were. Cause even the very end of that show. Right. The final sequence has some really cool technical elements.
- [19:48]
Matt Koplik
That final sequence is what's going to get them a set design nomination.
- [19:51]
David Lynch
Right? Yeah, we'll get to that. The one. Another one. I did see Mary Jane this past Tuesday and it does have some really interesting sound or just design elements at large. You know, I think that'll be one. We're gonna have to see how the kind of reviews come in for it because it's been kind of flying under the radar.
- [20:08]
Matt Koplik
Surprisingly, it has.
- [20:10]
David Lynch
And so the reviews come in and they're like, this is the best play ever. We love it. Then like, yeah, I can see Mary Jane getting in for a lot. If it kind of comes in being like it's good or it's fine, then I don't know if it'll sneak in. The other one I think is interesting. I didn't see it, but Gray House, which I heard was a very design heavy show.
- [20:27]
Matt Koplik
Yeah. I have Gray House in for set design and possibly lighting design. And there is. There is a lot of sound design in that show as well. That was such a polarizing production for so many people and was so long ago. So I'll be interested to see what people think. But I. But I was talking about this with someone the other day. I just think this is also going to be your. Going to see a lot of love spread out with nominations. I don't think we're going to see many shows with double digit noms, if any. And, you know, you'll see one show get three and another show get four and things like that. So, I mean, if Gray House gets a lighting set and sound design nomination, that's great. That means there are going to be some plays that were like so close to eight or nine nominations and now have to settle for like five, six.
- [21:07]
David Lynch
Right, right.
- [21:08]
Matt Koplik
But yeah, I could see. I could see that happening. Lighting design of a play. Do you want to give me your. Gosh. I know.
- [21:16]
David Lynch
So I'm gonna say here, I might have to defer to you on Patriots because it looks very lighty.
- [21:22]
Matt Koplik
Yeah, Patriots is very designy. The only design I don't think they'll get. Is costume okay.
- [21:26]
David Lynch
Because it's pretty, like, modern, right?
- [21:27]
Matt Koplik
Yeah, It's. It's. It's 80s, 90s, early 2000s.
- [21:30]
David Lynch
Right. I will say then, for lighting Enemy of the People, appropriate, go with Patriots Prayer for the French Republic and Stereophonic. Maybe would. Would swap out Prayer for the French Republic with Pearly Victorious, but it's kind of where I'm leaning towards.
- [21:52]
Matt Koplik
Yeah. I. Again, I'm putting in Stereophonic. The lighting design is exceptional. What begins, like, when you go see Stereophonic after all these things, I'm saying you. The first 20 minutes, you'd be like, what's Matt talking about? It's just a bunch of, you know, yellow lights in a sound studio. The way they go back and forth between the recording booth and the studio and the way they do certain transitions. It's very intentional, and it's very theatrical, and it's beautiful. So that's. I think that's happening. I do think appropriate will happen. Prayer for the French Republic is very.
- [22:27]
David Lynch
It had a lot of lighting moments.
- [22:28]
Matt Koplik
Yeah. I'm going to say Patriots first, so I say Stereophonic Patriots Appropriate. I could see Enemy that people getting a lighting design nomination. I could see Pearly or I could see Gray House, honestly. And Vanya, for me, right now is just very much a blank slate. Because as much as I want it to be incredible, the word of mouth has not been strong. It started poor and has now gotten to sort of middling. So clearly it's improving. But no one is blown away by it, and that's very upsetting to me. But no one's talking about the design at all. So I guess I'm gonna have to put that one aside. So what did I say except for my 5? I said stereophonic Patriots Prayer for the French Republic, Appropriate Enemy, the People. That'll be my five. Yeah.
- [23:11]
David Lynch
Yeah.
- [23:11]
Matt Koplik
There's no, like, real impressive lighting in Mary Jane.
- [23:14]
David Lynch
That's what I was gonna say is there is some impressive lighting in the show. It's pretty standard. I think, if anything, it's got a more impressive scenic design. And so I think it's just not a very technical show. Right.
- [23:28]
Matt Koplik
Could that be a surprise set design nomination?
- [23:30]
David Lynch
Yes. O. You know, we'll get to that. I think that is it. I won't give it away, but it has a very cool reveal that I don't think people anticipate, and it uses that space very well because that's a hard theater to design for, too, because mezzanine is so high. Like, design for both the orchestra and the mezzanine is really tricky.
- [23:48]
Matt Koplik
And it's not a very wide stage, but it's a pretty deep stage. For how not wide it is or to say for how thin the stage is. It actually goes relatively deep. So it's a weird. It is a weird space to design.
- [23:59]
David Lynch
What does that say about me?
- [24:01]
Matt Koplik
I will punch you in the face.
- [24:03]
David Lynch
I mean, you kind of. You kind of walked into that one.
- [24:05]
Matt Koplik
That's what they say about you, too.
- [24:06]
David Lynch
Yeah. No, there you go.
- [24:08]
Matt Koplik
Every time we go to the Drama League benefit, everyone sees David go. He just walked right into that one.
- [24:12]
David Lynch
That's showbiz, kid.
- [24:15]
Matt Koplik
Best, Roxy Heart. Okay. Costume design of a play. I will say Enemy of the People, Stereophonic Prayer for the French Republic, Pearly Victorious and the Cottage, which I would love it if Ja Ja's African hairbraiding got in there. I don't know if it will. And if it do, I think it'll replace Prayer for the French Republic. But, yeah, that's my five.
- [24:38]
David Lynch
Yeah. I think Stereophonic has some really great costume design in it. Like, you really get a sense of the time period and even the characterizations, like, I think is really, really well done. I think Pearly Victorious also had some pretty incredible costumes.
- [24:54]
Matt Koplik
Period design is always a big get for. For Tony Nominators. And Stereophonic is definitely the most modern of the shows we're talking about, but it is very period appropriate. And everything they give Sarah Pidgeon to wear is just fire.
- [25:08]
David Lynch
I know. Oh, my gosh. In that first scene, I was like, I'm truly very gay. But she looks so good.
- [25:13]
Matt Koplik
She looks good.
- [25:14]
David Lynch
They all look great. They all look great. It's a phenomenal design, but I would say yes. So I think. Where is it? Seriophonic, Pearly Victorious.
- [25:23]
Matt Koplik
I said also the cottage.
- [25:25]
David Lynch
The cottage. I didn't see that show, so I'm gonna defer to you.
- [25:28]
Matt Koplik
1920S, 1930s, very and very elaborate with the design, I will say. And you don't think Greyhouse, the costume design for Gray House is not something that people will remember.
- [25:39]
David Lynch
Yeah, I mean, sure. Enemy I'll throw in there.
- [25:43]
Matt Koplik
She's period.
- [25:44]
David Lynch
Yeah, she is. Prayer for the French Republic. Sure. I mean, this really isn't that costumey of a season, you know, like, we could give the nun outfits in Doubt, you know, a costume nom. We could be like, hey, you know, I mean, what is Liev. Liv Schreiber.
- [25:58]
Matt Koplik
Liev Schreiber. Yeah.
- [25:59]
David Lynch
I mean, he looks good. So give him a costume, you know, not him. Give the costume designer a nod for that show. He looks great. But yeah, I'll agree with your five there again.
- [26:08]
Matt Koplik
You know, let me, Let me, let me rephrase that. So I'm gonna, actually, I will. I will say Enemy of the People. Stereophonic. The cottage, Pearly, Victorious, and Ja Jaw's African hair braiding. Those would be my five. Okay. Scenic design of a play. You want to take this one?
- [26:29]
David Lynch
Yes. I'm going to say appropriate.
- [26:30]
Matt Koplik
Okay.
- [26:32]
David Lynch
You said gray house, so I feel.
- [26:33]
Matt Koplik
Like I did say gray house.
- [26:34]
David Lynch
I'm just going in order here. So appropriate gray. Did you. Stereophonic. I'll throw in there.
- [26:44]
Matt Koplik
Yeah. It's a, it is a. It is such a detailed, realistic set that I, I, it could not get in because it's not, you know, super theatrical, avant garde. But it is so down to the detail.
- [26:59]
David Lynch
Right.
- [27:00]
Matt Koplik
I'm sure people be like, that's impressive.
- [27:02]
David Lynch
And it's so well used. Like, it's one of those things where it's like, hey, you know how every element of that set plays into the plot and plays into the overall story is so smart. But I said, okay. Appropriate gray house. Stereophonic. I'm. The cottage.
- [27:19]
Matt Koplik
Yeah. The thing about the cottage is it's a very. It was a very beautiful design.
- [27:24]
David Lynch
Right.
- [27:24]
Matt Koplik
For me, it was not helpful for farce, which is what that play was trying to. From what I understand, the play, as written, is not supposed to be a farce. It's supposed to be sort of an homage spoof of Noel Cowardy plays. But then Jason Alexander took it. He's like, it's gonna be like noises Off. But there were two doors, and so not a lot of that stuff. But it was very beautiful house.
- [27:44]
David Lynch
Right. And the shark is broken. I didn't see that one either. Does that one have a set, or am I just kind of, like, misremembering.
- [27:50]
Matt Koplik
That Shark is broken had nothing. But you can nominate set design for Colin Donnell's abs.
- [27:55]
David Lynch
But there you go.
- [27:56]
Matt Koplik
I would actually put in Patriots, I think, for design here.
- [27:59]
David Lynch
Okay.
- [27:59]
Matt Koplik
Yeah. So appropriate. Gray house, Patriots, stereophonic. And then maybe the cottage or Mary.
- [28:06]
David Lynch
Jane or I even want, I mean, bias here. An Enemy of the People. Like, I thought they.
- [28:11]
Matt Koplik
I loved. I. Listen, we. We've talked about this. I loved pretty much everything about Enemy of the People. It is a set design that because it is so sparse, it'll be easy for some lesser people to look at and be like, that wasn't a set. I'm like, no, it was a very specific set and was very well used. And. And gave you just enough of the world that you knew where you were at without making it, you know, having to live in such realism.
- [28:38]
David Lynch
Right. Did once on this island get a set nom? I don't think it did.
- [28:41]
Matt Koplik
I think they got nominated for revival, actress and direction, and that was it.
- [28:45]
David Lynch
They didn't even get, like, costumes or light or anything. They might have.
- [28:48]
Matt Koplik
They might have. That was a year where the band's.
- [28:50]
David Lynch
Visit, like, was like, give it everything.
- [28:52]
Matt Koplik
Yeah. Band's visit swept. So I think if we're talking set, I think set was SpongeBob. Band's visit. Carousel. Was Carousel nominated for set design. Carousel was nominated for so many awards that I was.
- [29:05]
David Lynch
My Fair lady was that year too. That one definitely got a set nom.
- [29:07]
Matt Koplik
Yes. And spongebob was one. So maybe once was nominated. I can't remember. It's been. It's been a minute.
- [29:13]
David Lynch
Right. I guess that's me asking if shows that have been Circle in the Square have gotten. Because they can get lighting design.
- [29:18]
Matt Koplik
Oh, I think War. War Paint. No, War Paint was the year before. Never mind.
- [29:21]
David Lynch
Right.
- [29:21]
Matt Koplik
Because I think, remember, Warpain got, like, two design nominations. That blew my mind. But that was the year before. Never mind. You were right.
- [29:27]
David Lynch
No. Because I do think Enemy set is really impressive. Again, I hear your point. Whether or not they'll be like, oh, it's a show in the round, therefore it's not eligible for set or whatever is a different topic.
- [29:38]
Matt Koplik
But Fun Home also got nominated for set design. The Tonys are so weird because sometimes they will recognize that just because it's not elaborate doesn't mean it isn't great.
- [29:49]
David Lynch
Right.
- [29:49]
Matt Koplik
And, like, I'll remember. I'll remember it to the day I die. The year that once won scenic design for a musical. And I was like, good for you. Because, yes, it's, you know, deceptively simple, but it is so perfect for the show they're doing. They use it incredibly. It has certain surprises to its design, even though it's not like a million set pieces. And there were people who didn't understand how it won. And I was like, there were enough smart people that year who voted.
- [30:12]
David Lynch
Right? Yeah. And I think that it's a good point that you make a lot. Which is best does not equal most. Right. Like, there are some very minimalist set designs that work so well because they are not flashy, because they are just utilized so well. They make a statement about the show. Same thing for costume designs where, like, I know this is a hill that you probably. I don't Know if you'll die on it, but you're definitely on this hill is the Kimberly Akimbo costume designs, which are like, oh, these are so. They're very simple, but they reflect the characters so well and the era. Yes.
- [30:43]
Matt Koplik
I. It's something that a lot of people talk about, not just me. If you watch any YouTuber talk about the Oscars, and they'll always go on about how Oscar nominators have such a bias towards period films for costume design. They can't understand how modern day costume design works.
- [31:01]
David Lynch
Right.
- [31:01]
Matt Koplik
It's very rare that they get nominated. And it's the same thing with the Tonys. They never nominate a design that's, you know, contemporary because they're like, what are you talking about? There are no corsets. There are no bustles.
- [31:11]
David Lynch
Right? No bustles.
- [31:12]
Matt Koplik
Yeah.
- [31:12]
David Lynch
I mean, you know, depends on who you cast.
- [31:14]
Matt Koplik
Sound design, musical.
- [31:16]
David Lynch
Okay. So we're sticking with the technical ones. Sound design, musical. Okay. This is where I can definitely see a world where Back to the Future starts getting, you know, some recognition.
- [31:25]
Matt Koplik
Absolutely.
- [31:25]
David Lynch
So I'm gonna say Back to the Future. I'm gonna say Cabaret.
- [31:28]
Matt Koplik
Okay.
- [31:30]
David Lynch
I'm gonna say Tommy.
- [31:35]
Matt Koplik
Mm. I'm gonna put a hat in for Outsiders.
- [31:40]
David Lynch
Outsiders. I was also gonna say Water for elephants.
- [31:43]
Matt Koplik
Maybe the. So I think the ones that definitely have sound design that you can recognize where you're like, oh, that's a sound design. That's. For me, that's Outsiders and Back to the Future. The way that, you know, Back to the Future does the whole time travel and things like that, where it starts to get trickier for me is when you can see a show and you get the full sound of the orchestra, but also you get every lyric. And for me, that's merrily. I think merrily. Sound design is actually very well done.
- [32:11]
David Lynch
Yeah.
- [32:11]
Matt Koplik
I haven't seen Cabaret yet, but I do hear that the sound design for that is quite good. I also would like to throw my hat in the ring for Here Lies Love, which was a just. I have. I can see a world where Here Lies Love, even if it doesn't get a musical nomination or a score nomination, could sort of go down the line with design nominations as a way to sort of pay homage to it. Illinois, from what I understand, has a good sound design. I think Tommy, for me, Tommy's sound design was just very loud, and that might rub some people the wrong way.
- [32:40]
David Lynch
Right.
- [32:40]
Matt Koplik
But again, we live in a world where Sweeney Todd won sound design, so anything's possible.
- [32:45]
David Lynch
Yeah, I forgot about. I mean, I missed Merrily. I definitely think Merrily will get in. I think especially that overture to Merrily is like. So maybe it was just the night that I saw it, but everyone was so excited and that overture just like filled the entire room. And I feel like, again, first impression. That's what have. It's a really good. It's really well designed. But. And.
- [33:03]
Matt Koplik
And hot take. I will. Spoiler alert. We'll talk about it later. But I also put Merily in for orchestrations for that alone because Merrily actually had, I think, one fewer musician in the pit than Funny Girl, and it sounded twice as full.
- [33:17]
David Lynch
So it is eligible for orchestration. Oh, yeah.
- [33:19]
Matt Koplik
Oh, yeah. It's. It's a totally reorchestrated score. Hot. Well, also, because I don't think that actually that that wouldn't matter, but I was gonna say because it's the original wasn't eligible for orchestrations because the category didn't exist. But that doesn't matter because Bartlett Share revivals never get orchestration nominations because they just use the og but no, it's a new. Same orchestrator, new orchestration. But yeah, so we're saying Back to the Future. We're gonna sort of take a whack and say Cabaret. We'll say Merrily, we roll Along. We'll say Outsiders. And then between Tommy and Water for Elephants.
- [33:54]
David Lynch
Yeah. And I again, I. I love Shitami. So I feel like I'm gonna. I'd go and say, like, oh, I love. Like Tommy should get in there. It's also a very designy show.
- [34:01]
Matt Koplik
It is.
- [34:02]
David Lynch
Water for Elephants, though, is also a very designy show. And I feel like, you know, it comes to something like sound design, they kind of just think, well, I don't know how they think, but I would be like, well, what's the most designy show here? Let's throw that one in.
- [34:13]
Matt Koplik
Yeah. And I think the rock element of Tommy will be something that nominators will do, I think.
- [34:18]
David Lynch
Or Here Lies Love could take that last. Did you say that one?
- [34:20]
Matt Koplik
I did. I did say that one. Yeah. So that's an outlier. But, yeah, we'll.
- [34:23]
David Lynch
We'll see.
- [34:23]
Matt Koplik
Yeah, we'll keep her guessing.
- [34:25]
David Lynch
It's going to go to Sweeney Todd again.
- [34:26]
Matt Koplik
Yeah. Just fuck with me.
- [34:28]
David Lynch
Yeah. They're going to be like one more this year. We're actually going to renominate Sweeney Todd.
- [34:30]
Matt Koplik
Yeah. Just to get Matt Koplik to throw his second shoe right at the stage.
- [34:35]
David Lynch
Right.
- [34:35]
Matt Koplik
Lighting design.
- [34:37]
David Lynch
Back to the Future Cabaret. Here Lies Love, Tommy, Water for Elephants.
- [34:50]
Matt Koplik
Okay.
- [34:51]
David Lynch
And that's just me. I. I don't. I've not thought about this one yet. So this is me just looking at the list being like, what am I thinking? Cabaret's lighting design. You have not seen Cabaret yet.
- [34:58]
Matt Koplik
I have.
- [34:59]
David Lynch
Okay. Cabaret's lighting design, very well done. Yeah. Very impressive. I wonder if they're going to consider, you know, the pre show lighting design as well, because they kind of the way they redid the theater, the lobby is differently lit, the atmosphere is different. I imagine it's all one lighting designer. So I imagine it's all the same thing. But the way they transform that space is really, really fascinating. And I would see it, honestly, as a front runner.
- [35:23]
Matt Koplik
Yeah. I think that the whole. Once you enter the theater, you are now seeing the show. Even if it's a quote unquote, pre show, you're seeing the show. So just the impressiveness of that is something that will be considered. I'm going to X back to the future. I'm going to say Cabaret. I'm gonna say Merrily. I'm gonna say Outsiders, Tommy and either Water for Elephants or Gatsby. Gatsby will be an interesting one for me because I don't see it getting a lot of love. But I think again, similar to Heroize, love design is where nominators could go for it because it is period, it is big. I don't love the design of Gatsby, but if I were to give. If you're like Matt gun to your head, what's like the one nomination you would give Gatsby and be able to sleep at night? I would say lighting design. And it's not just because I'm about to interview the lighting designer. I did. I watched the show knowing I was gonna be interviewing him and was like, please let this be good. So I have something to say. And I watched it. I was like, oh, it is good. So that's nice.
- [36:25]
David Lynch
Right? Well, the one that I'm now looking at is the Notebook. That lighting design was so good for.
- [36:29]
Matt Koplik
That show for a set, because I hated that set. The lighting design did a lot of heavy lifting for me.
- [36:33]
David Lynch
Right. But even like Days of Wine and Roses, I mean, both Michael Greif, but like, those had really good lighting design moments.
- [36:39]
Matt Koplik
And another one with an ugly set. No, both of those were very beautiful lit shows. This is a harder category for me than scenic design and costume design, I will admit, because there's. There aren't many people here that I don't like.
- [36:54]
David Lynch
The work of Illinois also might have. I mean, I haven't seen it, but, like, might have amazing lighting.
- [37:00]
Matt Koplik
It might.
- [37:00]
David Lynch
We don't know.
- [37:01]
Matt Koplik
I mean, Hell's Kitchen actually has pretty good lighting, I will admit.
- [37:03]
David Lynch
Yeah.
- [37:04]
Matt Koplik
You know, I'm trying to think Once Upon a One More Time might be, like, the only one here where I just went. Nope. And I haven't seen the Wiz yet. But I know a lot of people I know were very disappointed with that design in general.
- [37:15]
David Lynch
Yeah. But even, you know, something like Suffs, where I thought the lighting design worked, it's nothing, you know, revolutionary or groundbreaking. And so I don't think it would get in for that category, even though it's. Again, I think it's very well done. It works well for the show.
- [37:27]
Matt Koplik
It works, but it's not. I think if the design of Suff's, the scenic lighting design were both, like, 20% more. Not elaborate, but just. I don't know if there was a little 20% more oomph to it. I actually think that would help the show because as it stands, it's up to the performers and the material to kind of sell it, because the design just sort of. It doesn't get in the way, but it also doesn't help it. It's just sort of there. Which is not something you ever want to say about. Is that designer. Costume designer. Actually costume design, I think they have a nomination for. And I think the costumes are quite good in that. Yeah. Moving on from design, we'll do the last two design nominations, and then we'll take a break and move on to the ones that people really want to hear. Costume design of a musical. I'm going to say Cabaret. I'm going to say Merrily Suffs, Great Gatsby, and Water for Elephants. Those are my five.
- [38:21]
David Lynch
I. I'm gonna say. See, I'm gonna throw Back to the Future in there.
- [38:25]
Matt Koplik
Okay.
- [38:26]
David Lynch
Cabaret. I'm coming across like, some Back to the Future Stan on this podcast, which, to be clear, I did see the show right after I got through a breakup, so that was. That was good timing.
- [38:35]
Matt Koplik
It helped you.
- [38:36]
David Lynch
Yes. Anyways, costume design for a musical. Back to the Future, Cabaret. Suffs. Did you say Outsiders or.
- [38:48]
Matt Koplik
No, I didn't.
- [38:49]
David Lynch
No. Yeah. Water for Elephants. And again, my gut wants to say Tommy, but I hope not. But I also could see them being like, oh, Spamalot, let's give Spamalot a costume design nomination. Or.
- [39:01]
Matt Koplik
Because costumes are basically from the original.
- [39:03]
David Lynch
Right. But, like, still, if you're thinking about it, like, which ones are the costumey, ish shows?
- [39:08]
Matt Koplik
Here's the thing why I mentioned Merrily, it's the same thing for me as Stereophonic, which is that, first of all, I hate the set design of Merrily. I think it. I understand why it's there, and it does its job fine, but it's an ugly design, and I think it creates some bad sight lines and doesn't help you at all in terms of the time travel. I think that the costumes of that show do a lot of heavy lifting to let you know exactly what era we're in. Same thing with the lighting design. But, you know, it also could be that the Merrily costumes, there aren't enough of elaborate costumes to get people's attention back to the future. I'm just sort of iffy on because, again, similar to Spamalot, it's just a recreation of the original. And so that kind of makes me go, I don't know if you did a good job getting that puffy jacket vest of Marty's down, but I don't consider it to be an inventive design.
- [39:57]
David Lynch
Right. The one I think that is the front runner here is Cabaret, because the Cabaret costumes are very well done, and they're very impressive, and they fit the kind of statement that they're making at any one given moment really, really well.
- [40:08]
Matt Koplik
I mean, my hot take is without even having seen it yet, without the reviews having come out, I do think Cabaret will just sweep all the design categories when it. When awards happen. Just the sheer scale of what they do in that production, you can't deny.
- [40:20]
David Lynch
Right?
- [40:22]
Matt Koplik
But I mean, like, I think Here lies Love could sneak in there. I think that. I mean, Water for Elephants. I think the design of Water for Elephants has come under scrutiny by some people because they think they want it. They said they wanted more spectacle. And I'm going, this is about a circus in the 1930s. It's the great Depression, and circuses have never really been about spectacle. They've been about stunts. You know, there's a lot of glitter everywhere. But you don't. Like. You never go to a circus and you go, oh, my God, that set piece, right? It seems spectacular because it's. You're in a large space and there's.
- [40:56]
David Lynch
An elephant in front of you, Right?
- [40:58]
Matt Koplik
But, yeah, there's no turntable at a circus, Right?
- [41:00]
David Lynch
So I don't want to break this news to you, but that's not a real elephant in the show.
- [41:04]
Matt Koplik
Thank God. Because I had a puppet. Thank you. I had worries about animal cruelty.
- [41:08]
David Lynch
You were like, where are they keeping that, that elephant? That's an Interesting question about, like, live animals and Broadway shows. Like, what has been the craziest live animal? Which, because once on this island had a goat, I believe.
- [41:20]
Matt Koplik
They sure did.
- [41:20]
David Lynch
I'm trying to think. There's definitely been dogs before, probably cats.
- [41:23]
Matt Koplik
Rats, lambs, and Gypsy. You have to go back to the 20s and 30s and look up all the shit that they put on stage. There was a musical version of Gone with the Wind that originated in Japan, then opened in London, and then came to California before trying to go to Broadway, and never happened. But that version of it, during the burning of Atlanta, they had a real horse on stage. And apparently on opening night in London, the horse stopped dead in its tracks in the middle of stage and took a huge dump.
- [41:50]
David Lynch
Oh.
- [41:52]
Matt Koplik
And the audience applauded. There you go.
- [41:54]
David Lynch
There you go. It's a low bar nowadays.
- [41:55]
Matt Koplik
They were like, oh, my God. Finally, drama on stage.
- [41:58]
David Lynch
Right? Oh, my gosh. Yeah. I did not know there was a musical version of that.
- [42:01]
Matt Koplik
I mean. And then they tried to do another one in London many years later, directed by Trevor Nunn, and it also did not do well. So. Cabaret.
- [42:08]
David Lynch
Sorry, I'm getting so off track here.
- [42:10]
Matt Koplik
Cabaret. Sephs. Those are. Those are two locks. We think I'm gonna put in Gatsby.
- [42:16]
David Lynch
Mm.
- [42:17]
Matt Koplik
And then I'm gonna put in Water for elephants. And then Short Tommy could get in there. I would like to maybe lean a little more towards Merrily or Here Lies Love if we're gonna do that. Even Harmony, which I thought had some very nice period appropriate costumes. But, yeah, Tommy, for me, the aesthetic of that production really turned me off. I did not find it to be an aesthetically pleasing show. The set was impressive in terms of how the projections were incorporated. But just when everything's black, white and yellow, all I'm thinking of is, you know, piss night at the Eagle.
- [42:49]
David Lynch
And you're thinking about that a lot.
- [42:51]
Matt Koplik
I'm thinking about that every day anyway.
- [42:53]
David Lynch
Right.
- [42:53]
Matt Koplik
I'm thinking about that at church.
- [42:54]
David Lynch
But at time, it's piss night at the Eagle when you're with Matt Koplik.
- [42:57]
Matt Koplik
Absolutely. But I got. I go to the theater to escape. So to see that confronted to me in Tommy, I was like, how dare you?
- [43:03]
David Lynch
I do think it was a jarring design. And, you know, my take was. It's jarring purposefully. Right. Like it's not supposed to be, you know, oh, this is so pleasing to the eye, and it's so nice to look at. I think that it.
- [43:15]
Matt Koplik
Yeah, for me, it wasn't. It was jarring. It was. I Just thought it was ugly. And they listen. It's the design that Dess wants, and so he got what he wanted. I'm just saying, I watched it. I was like, I don't like this. Especially when you take into consideration the original production. And, you know, with revivals, you don't want to compare to the original unless something's not working for you and you go, well, what made this work the first time? And if you watch the original production, the design of that is nothing but color. It's very art pop. And for me, that actually helps the story because it makes it seem more outlandish and spectacular. And then when you make it, like, very sleek and self serious, then you got people being like, wait, I'm sorry, what's happening right now? He lost his sight and his hearing because he watched his dad shoot someone, and now he's getting fondled by his uncle.
- [43:59]
David Lynch
Right.
- [43:59]
Matt Koplik
I'm like, is this an episode of All My Children?
- [44:03]
David Lynch
I don't get the reference.
- [44:04]
Matt Koplik
This is All My Children. It's a soap opera. You know, crazy things happen on soap operas.
- [44:07]
David Lynch
That's true. And in Tommy.
- [44:09]
Matt Koplik
And in Tommy, Scenic design, musicale.
- [44:14]
David Lynch
Back to the Future.
- [44:15]
Matt Koplik
Your favorite musical.
- [44:16]
David Lynch
Gosh. Back to the Future Cabaret.
- [44:22]
Matt Koplik
Here Lies Love. If you're gonna give an immersive nomination to Cabaret, you have to give one for Heroes Love.
- [44:27]
David Lynch
Well, the level of immersiveness with Cabaret versus the level of immersiveness of Here Lies Love is very different.
- [44:33]
Matt Koplik
Sure.
- [44:34]
David Lynch
Because Here Lies Love was like you're in a theater, and then when you enter the club space, you're immersed. Cabaret is like, before you even enter, they want you to be immersed.
- [44:42]
Matt Koplik
Yeah.
- [44:43]
David Lynch
But anyway, so Back to the Future Cabaret. Yeah, sure. I'll throw Here Lies Love in there. I haven't seen Gatsby yet.
- [44:51]
Matt Koplik
I don't love the design of Gatsby, but it is big, and there's usually one big show that gets nominated like that. And then also Water for Elephants, I think, is a very clever design. Those would be my five, I think, Tommy.
- [45:03]
David Lynch
Because the one I was debating was Gatsby or Tommy.
- [45:05]
Matt Koplik
Yeah. I'll be honest. If I'm. If I'm debating between the two, I would probably go for Tommy. They're both actually kind of heavy on projections. I think Tommy uses projections a little better, but I like. It's so weird because I think Tommy. It's like Tommy is a better use of its set, but I like the aesthetic of Gatsby more. So both of them, for me, are like a gentleman 6.5. So I don't know which one I'm going with.
- [45:32]
David Lynch
Right, right. I would think, you know, even less of, like, what do I think I would want? Or what would I vote for? Rather, like, what do I think nominators will sit around and be like, which one is more likely to be nominated? I would think Tommy because of the projections and the use of projections. Which one?
- [45:50]
Matt Koplik
I was looking at Tommy's the more well liked show at the moment, so.
- [45:54]
David Lynch
Right. And another one. I mean, if they love Merrily, if this is like a merrily fest during the nominations, like, I can see a world where Merrily gets in for all the design categories.
- [46:03]
Matt Koplik
It's also that happens sometimes when a show is just sort of like the big dick hit of the season and they just, like, go hog wild on it and it could happen. I don't know. I would prefer it if they didn't. But, you know, crazier things happen in this world.
- [46:18]
David Lynch
Right. Still think it's Cabaret's to lose, though.
- [46:20]
Matt Koplik
Oh, for sure, for sure. All right, so those are all the design categories. Let us take a quick break, and then we will come back for some big, tittiered categories. And we're back. So, David, let's get to some bigger categories. What? What? What's a big one you want to do?
- [46:52]
David Lynch
So we did Best Musical already.
- [46:54]
Matt Koplik
Yes.
- [46:54]
David Lynch
We can stick with the musicals. We can go to the plays. Let's do Best Play to even it out.
- [46:59]
Matt Koplik
Sure.
- [47:00]
David Lynch
And then we can decide what we want to do from there. Do you want me to give mine or do you want to take yours?
- [47:05]
Matt Koplik
Do it.
- [47:06]
David Lynch
So Best Play, I think you got Stereophonic Prayer for the French Republic Patriots. Jajas in the last spot, I'm gonna give to Mary Jane. The one that I'm leaving out that I think is gonna be in consideration is Mother Play. I saw Mother Play two weeks ago. I saw the second preview, so has probably changed a good bit since then, tightened up, I think it was definitely not my favorite show.
- [47:37]
Matt Koplik
Yeah. Mother Play is a similar situation as Water for Elephants, where, like, the first week, all the responses were pretty uniformly negative. And then this past week and a half, the response has changed quite a bit. Not over overwhelmingly positive, but more people liking it. And I do know that the first couple of previews, it was clocking in around, what, two hours? Something like that? I think it's closer, and now it's much closer to 90 minutes. So clearly there have been some cuts and some changes. But, yeah, I think that's definitely an outlier and also we don't know if they're going to consider Mary Jane original or revival. I have to believe it's going to be considered original.
- [48:16]
David Lynch
Right.
- [48:16]
Matt Koplik
It hasn't been around that long and I don't think it's even, I don't know if it's available for licensing yet, but I don't think it falls under the classics rule just yet. I'm gonna say Shark is broken, Da Cottage, Greyhouse, and I need that end of list.
- [48:31]
David Lynch
And the sound design for Sweeney Todd.
- [48:33]
Matt Koplik
And the sound design for Sweeney Todd.
- [48:34]
David Lynch
For best play kid.
- [48:35]
Matt Koplik
Yes. And the, and the new casting for Sweeney Todd.
- [48:38]
David Lynch
So.
- [48:38]
Matt Koplik
No, I agree with you. I think, I think that's the, I think that's the five. I think it's Stereophonic, which is definitely the favorite to win Prayer for the French Republic. Patriots, Jaja and Mary Jane, those are going to be the five. And it's, I think it's a nice diverse group. Patriots is the, you know, British import that, you know, did well over there, and it's considered esoteric. Prayer for the French Republic is good. I liked it a little more off Broadway, but it is a good play and it's, and it has a lot of heavy themes to it. Jaja is also just fucking delightful. That play was such a good time. I thoroughly enjoyed it and I want them to remember it.
- [49:10]
David Lynch
Yeah, I was concerned. I feel like going into this year being like, or 2024 being like, oh, they're going to forget about Jaja's come Tony season. You, it was such a good play, but it was early on in the season. I, I, I have a suspicion they're going to include it because I think it is a, it was a really, really well done play. I think, to be honest with you, if it was opening in April, I think it could have had a shot of winning.
- [49:29]
Matt Koplik
Yeah.
- [49:29]
David Lynch
Um, I think the fact that it was earlier is not doing them any favors, but I do think it was a really, really well done play. And I, I, I, I don't see it being like the fifth slot that might get cut out sort of thing.
- [49:40]
Matt Koplik
I mean, I, I think even if Jaja opened this spring, Stereophonic pretty much would have it in the bag. But I think Jaja, if it was playing right now, would give it a run for its money. Would be a much more interesting story than just this thing is, you know, walking away with everything. It's, you know, here's this other one that we all really enjoyed Play Revival. We got five, which means I think it's going to be three And I.
- [49:59]
David Lynch
Think unless Mary Jane goes in there.
- [50:01]
Matt Koplik
Unless Mary Jane goes in there. And I think it's going to be Enemy of the People, Appropriate and Pearly. Those are our three.
- [50:07]
David Lynch
Yeah. I mean, again, bias here, but I. I think those are. We'll have to see how Uncle Vanya reviews come in, how the kind of reception is there. Because if the reviews are exceptional, critics pick. This is the best show we've ever seen, then I think we have a really tough category here.
- [50:21]
Matt Koplik
Yeah.
- [50:22]
David Lynch
And I think if that's the case, we might even get four nominees here.
- [50:26]
Matt Koplik
Four is definitely possible.
- [50:27]
David Lynch
And I think Doubt. Doubt got very good reviews. It was a well done show. I just feel like out of all of these, it was maybe the least innovative of them. And so I think it's definitely kind of going uphill. It's climbing uphill here.
- [50:41]
Matt Koplik
Yeah. For me, Doubt was a case where people were mistaking the production for the play. That is a very good play that was given an okay production and I wanted to like it. I was, everyone knows how on board I was with Time Daily and then that damn virus, flu, whatever thing she got took her out and became Amy Ryan. And I was rooting for Amy Ryan and she was fine. But I was. I was very unmoved by Doubt. And I think that if it gets in there, it's because of like a three vote difference.
- [51:10]
David Lynch
Right.
- [51:11]
Matt Koplik
But yeah, no, I think Enemy of the People, Appropriate, Pearly, are definites and everything else is just happy to be there.
- [51:17]
David Lynch
Musical revival, this is, I think, one of the toughest ones for me. Oh, I think that, you know, there is a clear. If you hear this paper, beautiful listeners. We have. We have papers in front of us that I happily made that have all of the possible nominees on them. So that's what we are shuffling through.
- [51:34]
Matt Koplik
David did not come to fuck around. He came to play.
- [51:37]
David Lynch
Good producing. So best musical revival, I think you've got Merrily, Cabaret, Tommy, and then the last three that are here that could fill that fourth slot are Gutenberg, Spamalot and the Wiz. I can see arguments for all three. Gutenberg, I think out of those three is probably the most well liked. It was a really fun event. The two of them did really, really well. I think everyone pretty much went to that show, even if they didn't love it. They were like, I had a good time. Right.
- [52:04]
Matt Koplik
And it recouped.
- [52:05]
David Lynch
It recoups. Yes. Spamalot, critics pick. I think critically, it did very well.
- [52:10]
Matt Koplik
Better than people expected.
- [52:11]
David Lynch
Exactly. And then the Wiz is currently running it is a beloved show. It has been revived a little bit and people have always wanted that to be revived. The reviews were not bad for it. They weren't exceptional, but they were not at all. This is a terrible show. It's also selling super well.
- [52:27]
Matt Koplik
It's selling incredibly well. I will say the reviews were much better than I expected because everyone I know who had seen it despised it. And basically everyone said the same thing, which is like, vocals are incredible, there's no acting going on, the design is cheap as hell, and there's no direction to be spoken of. And then the reviews came out and they were not bad. They were better than the reviews for Lempicka or Once Upon a One More Time. They were probably on par with Notebook and Back to the Future, which were they? Both shows had their dismissive reviews and both shows had their positives. And the Wiz kind of had both. You know, you read the New York Times review by Maya Phillips and she doesn't love the revival, but she acknowledges that she didn't dislike the time she spent there. And I think that sort of gives Tony nominators a pass to go. Yeah. Let's nominate the one that's still running.
- [53:14]
David Lynch
Yeah. And so again, Merrily Cabaret, Tommy. And for that fourth slot for the past three months, I had Gutenberg, but I am gonna switch it to the Wiz. I think that that show also means a lot to a lot of people. It's a beloved show. Again, it's running right now. I think they'll. You know, again, I don't think they think like this, but I do think it's a. Maybe back of the mind thought it'll be a lovely Tony performance to have. Right. I think it will take that fourth slot.
- [53:42]
Matt Koplik
Yeah. I mean, also, that score is just bonkers. Good. And so who doesn't want to watch them do Brand New Day or ease on down the road or, you know. So you wanted to meet the wizard. I just give me any of it into my veins. I love that music so much.
- [53:57]
David Lynch
Let's do should we go to play. Should we go to musicals? We can do. We can do the musical. Like, book and score.
- [54:02]
Matt Koplik
I was gonna say let's do book and score. So score. I'm going to say Days of Wine and Roses, Stereophonic Sephs, the Outsiders and the Notebook. Those are my five.
- [54:19]
David Lynch
Those are my five.
- [54:20]
Matt Koplik
Those are your five as well.
- [54:21]
David Lynch
Yep. I think Days of Wine and Roses, this is definitely one that it could win. I think it's to going, you know, climbing uphill for a few Other categories, Days of Wine and Roses. We said Stereophonic, which I think, you know, originally. I feel like on your podcast, you're like, this is a hot opinion that, like, people might not agree with. Now. I feel like it's pretty, like, yeah, no, Yeah. I don't think it's gonna get in.
- [54:39]
Matt Koplik
Yeah. Everyone's like, how can this not? The songs are so good.
- [54:41]
David Lynch
Right. I think Suffs has a good score. Very musical theater traditional, which. Which I think will definitely help it. I think the Notebook has a. Has a really good score, too. And the Outsiders, I feel like. Is that, like, I could see a world where the Outsiders is swapped out for water for elephants.
- [54:57]
Matt Koplik
I mean, I could see a world where Stereophonic gets swapped out for water for elephants just by people being like, I don't want to nominate a play if there's a musical I can nominate, but we've done it before, and I think we can do it again.
- [55:09]
David Lynch
What about here? Like, Here Lies Love.
- [55:10]
Matt Koplik
I would love it if that score got in. I think that score bops, but if it got in there, I think it would be in place of Notebook or Days of Wine and Roses, which is so weird to be like, I just said that this one is vulnerable for this one, but now this score is vulnerable for these two scores. But that's how chess works, baby.
- [55:27]
David Lynch
Right. Well, and I also think Here Lies Love will be very interesting to see how it plays on nomination morning. Right. I can see a world where it gets into best musical and best score, best book, best director. Right. Or I can see a world where it just gets in for senior or, like, for technical noms. It's.
- [55:42]
Matt Koplik
This is because it is so crowded. There are 9,000 ways everything could go. Because there's. While we have so many options, the truth is that a lot of the options we currently have, many of them aren't terribly great. And we actually had some solid, if not perfect, but solid shows in the winter that didn't make it. And it's like, well, do we honor what we thought was truly the better ones, or do we honor what's around? And nominators don't have as much recency bias as voters, but they do have a little bit. So I think we'll see some love for Here Lies Love. How? What? To what scale? I couldn't tell you.
- [56:17]
David Lynch
Right.
- [56:18]
Matt Koplik
But I think. I don't see. I don't see a world where it gets zero on April 30, but I don't see a world where it gets 10, either.
- [56:24]
David Lynch
And the Dark Horse Here, though, as well. And I think you know what I'm gonna say.
- [56:27]
Matt Koplik
Back to the Future.
- [56:28]
David Lynch
No, no, no. It's not Back to the Future.
- [56:31]
Matt Koplik
Harmony.
- [56:31]
David Lynch
Harmony, yeah. Where I do think people were pleasantly surprised by that score. I don't think it trumps a lot of the other scores here, but I do think it is. You know, it's Barry Manilow. He's been working on the show for however many years. Right? Yeah, I don't. I wouldn't count it out. I'd be surprised if it gets in, but I would not count out just yet.
- [56:55]
Matt Koplik
No, neither would I. I think that Harmony's best chances right now are in choreography, score and act, running musical. And we'll get to those other two in a second. I think that the score for Harmony is interesting. There's a lot of beautiful stuff going on there. It was for me, in the watching of it. That didn't work for me. But if you listen to it, I'm sure there are many people who will be like, oh, we slept on this score. And that has worked for nominators in the past. Women on the Verge of a nervous breakdown was a mess on stage, but that score was good. And when they. They recorded it when. After the show closed and they gave it to Tony nominators, like, the month before, they had to vote and put in their nominations and they got a nomination for that. And I think that can work. I think that can work for Harmony's advantage, for sure. I. My hot take is. I think stuffs has become our front runner for score. If nothing else. I. I don't mind that there's other. Outside of honestly stereophonic in the, like, seven songs they have that just rock my world. There's no score here where I'm like, it must be you and only you and anything else is a disaster. I'm like, no, I can see what. How any of these could win. I don't love it. I don't hate it. Pop off, sis. Book of a musical. So for you, Back to the Future.
- [58:07]
David Lynch
No, I think we're gonna have Days of Wine and Roses, Suffs, the Notebook, the Outsiders and Water for Elephants.
- [58:20]
Matt Koplik
I'm gonna say Outsiders, Water for Elephants, Notebook, Sooths. Say those four for show. And I would love it if Heart of Rock and Roll got in there. It won't, but it's. I think that's a better book than Days of Wine and Roses. I think Harmony is a better book than Days of Wine and Roses. Yeah, it. Days of Wine and Roses. There you go. There it is.
- [58:42]
David Lynch
I mean, harmony could. I could get in.
- [58:44]
Matt Koplik
It could. That could be the loan. They won a drama desk award.
- [58:48]
David Lynch
We had a comedy here that we could be like. That was a funny book. Like, those were good jokes.
- [58:52]
Matt Koplik
I thought there were some good jokes in Heart of Rock and Roll.
- [58:55]
David Lynch
I haven't seen it.
- [58:56]
Matt Koplik
She fun a lot. A lot of jokes about how much marriage sucks. I'm like, yes. Say more. Let's do a performance. Do you want to do a musical or a play?
- [59:05]
David Lynch
Let's do a musical. Let's be fun.
- [59:07]
Matt Koplik
Okay. Featured actress in a musical. Because that might be the longest list we have here.
- [59:13]
David Lynch
This is a big list. Okay, so frontrunner here, and I will right now, I'm gonna really be strong about this. Bebe Neuwirth, Cabaret.
- [59:21]
Matt Koplik
You have me signing off on that.
- [59:23]
David Lynch
That's number one.
- [59:24]
Matt Koplik
Then Lindsay Mendes for Merrilee.
- [59:26]
David Lynch
Lindsay Mendes, Merrily. I'm also gonna put in. She's not gonna be number. Number three. There's someone in here that I'm missing.
- [59:37]
Matt Koplik
The question for me is, I enjoyed Jordan Tyson and Notebook a bit more than Joy woods, but Joy woods has the song an Act 2. And so the question is, you know, will nominators care? I don't know. I know that they're. They are also promoting Joy far more than they are promoting Jordan in all of their marketing for that show. So that could happen.
- [59:59]
David Lynch
Yeah. I also. I mean, this is where I originally had Marianne Plunkett, but when we moved her to lead.
- [60:02]
Matt Koplik
Yes.
- [60:03]
David Lynch
So we'll see.
- [60:03]
Matt Koplik
So we'll see what ends up happening. My hot take is that Marian Plunkett's going into leading. I know that the producers want to put her and Dorian into lead, and I can. I think they'll succeed with that. If they don't, then Marianne goes into featured, and she's winning.
- [60:15]
David Lynch
Right. But so Bebe Neuwirth.
- [60:18]
Matt Koplik
Lindsay.
- [60:18]
David Lynch
Lindsay. I'm gonna say Nicky M. James for Suffs. Sure. And I'm gonna then close out with Keisha Lewis. Hell's Kitchen. That's four. Well, okay. Fifth would be Marian Plunkett if she gets in there. Otherwise, you know, I can see Shosh getting in there for Hell's Kitchen. I can see Joy woods for the Notebook. I can see Jen Colella for Suffs. I think those four, though, I feel pretty good with Phoebe Neuwirth and Cabaret. When I tell you she steals that show.
- [60:45]
Matt Koplik
Yeah.
- [60:46]
David Lynch
But in a way that, like. Yeah. You're like, yeah, okay. She's. You know, that role's always stealing the show. It's like no cabaret, that role. To be the scene stealer in a show that's very flashy, very big in a role that is meant to not be flashy and not to be big is incredible. I think that. I mean, honestly, I had her when.
- [61:05]
Matt Koplik
They announced her in Stephen Skybell in those roles, I was like, they are getting nominations yesterday. And I was like, and Bebe's become the front runner. That's just. And now it's just become fact. Like she's doing the thing and everyone's agreeing. So I appreciate that. I want to give a quick shout out to Ally Bonino and stuffs, who is actually my favorite of the gals in that show. She's not gonna get nominated. It's too quiet of a role. But she is delightful in that show.
- [61:29]
David Lynch
She might. I mean, I wouldn't count it out. I think Nicky M. James has the. I think she makes the most of what she has in that show.
- [61:37]
Matt Koplik
The problem with Nicky M. James role is that there are large chunks of time when she is not on stage and you can feel it. And I think that, as you said, when she comes on stage, she grabs her stage time by the throat because she's Nicky M. James. And it's also like. It's a very. Word's not confident, but like a very determined part. Like you come, like when you come on stage with that energy, it makes sense for the role you're playing. Jen Colella is also a possibility. You know, she opens the show, she has more stage time than Nikki. My issue is I feel like if act one, you know, I found maybe Jen a little more memorable. Act two, I found Nikki more memorable. She doesn't have as much stage time as Jen, but I also feel like they kind of drop the ball with Jen's character by the end of the show, whereas Nikki gets to come on and have that great final scene with her character.
- [62:26]
David Lynch
But it's also the role that Nikki plays is a much more conflicted role. Right. And she does it very well. Right. Where it's this character who is, on the one hand is very happy, but on the other hand, you know, sees that there's still a long road ahead for her.
- [62:41]
Matt Koplik
Yeah. When they get the right. Or when white women get the right to vote and she celebrates with her friends and then she takes a moment, she goes, it's not going to include us though.
- [62:50]
David Lynch
Right.
- [62:50]
Matt Koplik
And it's a. And the way she does it. Because I talked about this on this. On this week's episode of the podcast when I reviewed Suffs. One of my caveats about it is it can be rather pandering, and that is a moment where it could be pandering. But the way Nikki plays it, it doesn't feel like it at least didn't feel that way to me.
- [63:13]
David Lynch
Yeah.
- [63:13]
Matt Koplik
Like, I. I watched her do it, and I was impressed because I was like, I can see totally see another actress reading that line, and it's just like, you know, in light. See, guys, we're aware and blah, blah. But no, she plays it so small and grounded, and so it made it more powerful to me.
- [63:28]
David Lynch
Right, yeah. Sorry. And that character, they made such a good change with from the public. So I saw it at the public and obviously on Broadway, and they made that. To your point, they made it less of a. Like, this is an acknowledgment that we understand this history is complicated. So here's a character to kind of, you know, check off any arguments, but they made it like a real character on Broadway with a real, you know, with real complicated feelings. And I think it's also, you know, it's a political show, obviously, but by giving, you know, Nicky M. James a nomination there, I think it will sort of also be a nod to the dynamics of the political nature of the show and different kind of things going on there.
- [64:03]
Matt Koplik
Absolutely. And I know that there are people who are really wanting, you know, Leslie Rodriguez Kritzer for Spamalot to get in there. Are there people who want Crystal Joy Brown or Katie Rose Clarke? Many people want Julie Benko in there. I think that Leslie, you know, has that shot of just being very well liked in a very showy role, but the show will have closed by that point. And also, not everyone is a Spamalot fan. Harmony with Julie, I don't think the role was ever really big enough. The show has also closed Crystal and Katie, you know, for me, if they get nominated, it's in the sweep of the Merrily stuff. But I just did not find their performances to be as successful as Lindsay's. And I liked Lindsay. I actually preferred Lindsay's understudy. I've been very vocal about that. But I do think Lindsay is good. And I just think there are so many options here. Why would you fill up three out of the five slots with Merrily People when you can honor Suffs, you can honor Amber, Aman and Lempicka, you can honor Alison Luff and Tommy. Like, why would you do that?
- [64:57]
David Lynch
Yeah. And that's, again, if I was, like, the sole nominating committee, I would totally put Amber Amon in there because I thought she was so good in that role.
- [65:04]
Matt Koplik
I would put in Beth Leavel.
- [65:06]
David Lynch
Oh, I would put Beth Leavel in everything. I put Beth Leavel in for best play.
- [65:10]
Matt Koplik
I would put Beth Leavel in me. But I. My issue with Amber is that I. I enjoy her so immensely and she's so talented. She sings the fucking shit out of her stuff and she's so compelling on stage. But it does feel like she's in a different show from Eden. And that's not an Amber problem. That's something that Rachel Chafkin needed to work on. But I see your point. I wouldn't be mad if she got nominated.
- [65:29]
David Lynch
If she's not nominated this time around, she will be a future Tony nominee.
- [65:32]
Matt Koplik
Oh, absolutely.
- [65:33]
David Lynch
If not Tony winner soon.
- [65:35]
Matt Koplik
Absolutely. Keisha Lewis is getting. Has to get nominated for all of the issues I have with Hell's Kitchen. When she comes on stage, you are paying the fuck attention.
- [65:42]
David Lynch
It honestly, when she went on stage, the audience woke up. It was. I mean, like, that's not to say we were asleep, but like she was in a different. She commands that stage. Especially her dynamic with Malaya. Joy Moon is so good. And I think that Keisha Lewis is. She just has such a commanding presence and she gets the Act 1 finale in that show.
- [66:05]
Matt Koplik
She sure do.
- [66:05]
David Lynch
Which is, you know, a big rousing number. And I think that is really gonna set her up well because originally I had like Shoshanna in there and Shoshana slays as she always does. But I feel like the role for Keisha Lewis, it's again, using. It's doing a lot more with a lot less.
- [66:19]
Matt Koplik
Yeah, Shoshana is wonderful in the show. Shoshana tends to always be wonderful. Well, maybe not always. No one is always wonderful. We all have our slip ups. But every time I have seen Shoshanna, she has delivered. She delivers in this. The problem for me is that role is a bunch of contradictions. That's really hard to get behind. Not in the way like a human being has contradictions from the way that like a character just changes on a dime for like the sake of the scene. And then, yeah, she. I mean, she's got like a big number in Act 2 that I know a lot of people love. I watched it being like, this should be cut. This song. When she tells off Brandon Victor Dixon. I was laughing.
- [66:52]
David Lynch
That's not the. Maybe they changed. It's because on Broadway they had. It was like a number where he was like in an audition.
- [66:58]
Matt Koplik
Yeah. And she walks in and she Tells him off.
- [67:00]
David Lynch
Oh, yeah. I thought she was telling off the other. I don't know.
- [67:03]
Matt Koplik
No, she's telling off him. She's basically being like, don't ever come near us. And then, like, the following scene is him coming near them. She goes, okay, we'll come to dinner.
- [67:10]
David Lynch
She wasn't. She wasn't, you know, serving enough food in that show, in my opinion. She. It was like.
- [67:15]
Matt Koplik
I've never spoken about that once.
- [67:17]
David Lynch
I know. I was. I was so surprised because careful listeners will know that Matt talks about or you talked about that specific thing after seeing it at the public. And I didn't see it at the public, but I was like, oh, he's so dramatic. Like, you know, there's no way. She's. Every single scene, you know, serving or preparing food. Like, there's no way. And then I saw it, and sure enough, I was like, oh, there it is. And I was actually at the invited dress. And at one point, at the beginning of a scene, she was like, oh, what scene is this? Oh, it's the carrots. Yeah, the carrots. And then she like. And I was like, great. I mean, she's aware. So. Love that.
- [67:50]
Matt Koplik
Mother was serving.
- [67:51]
David Lynch
Mother was serving.
- [67:52]
Matt Koplik
All right, let's do featured actress in a play.
- [67:55]
David Lynch
Ooh. Okay. I was expecting a feature actor musical, but okay, Featured actress in a play. This is going to be. Last year was my favorite race to watch because it was the closest. But this year, it's also going to be my favorite race because I think it's going to be between Kara Young in Pearly Victorious and Sarah Pidgeon in Stereophonic. So I think those two are out front for me. I would put in Frances. Why are you laughing?
- [68:17]
Matt Koplik
Because I'm so happy right now.
- [68:19]
David Lynch
Why?
- [68:19]
Matt Koplik
I love this category, and I love everything.
- [68:20]
David Lynch
Oh, wait, this is the mother of the categories.
- [68:23]
Matt Koplik
Fucking love this category.
- [68:24]
David Lynch
This is where we should honestly forego awards in other categories and just start giving it to everyone here, I think. So. Who did I say?
- [68:30]
Matt Koplik
I said Sarah, and you said Cara, and then you just said Frances for Prayer.
- [68:33]
David Lynch
Yes. Because she has that huge monologue in act two. Yeah, yeah.
- [68:39]
Matt Koplik
When she's like, I survived.
- [68:41]
David Lynch
I'm also going to give it Celia Keenan Bolger for Mother Play.
- [68:44]
Matt Koplik
Oh, okay.
- [68:45]
David Lynch
She is so good in that. And then this last spot, I'm going to tell you who I want is Victoria Pedretti for Enemy of the People, because I think she kills that role, and I think she's so good.
- [68:58]
Matt Koplik
She's fantastic.
- [68:59]
David Lynch
I don't know if she will get in. If she doesn't get in. I do think Julianna Canfield from Stereophonic is also very good.
- [69:10]
Matt Koplik
Yes. First of all, I've said this before. I'll say it again. Every single person is. Stereophonic is just mopping the floor with the audience. So that aside, I'm going to say Sarah Pigeon and Carrie Young for sure. I'm going to also say Natalie Gold for Appropriate. I'm going to say Victoria Pedretti for Enemy of the People. And my fifth slot is interesting. Here's the thing. So we're what. We're looking at these lists that David put together that he also, you know, corroborated from Gold Derby. And they have Betsy item down for featured actress in a play for Prayer for the French Republic. I'll be interested to see if they decide that Betsy actually goes into leading actress.
- [69:53]
David Lynch
I hope she does.
- [69:54]
Matt Koplik
I hope so, because I think that.
- [69:55]
David Lynch
Gives her a better shot.
- [69:56]
Matt Koplik
It absolutely does. And I think she is the female lead of that play.
- [69:59]
David Lynch
Yeah, without a doubt.
- [70:00]
Matt Koplik
Absolutely. It's. It's just all focused around her in that way. I would say if she is put in featured, I think she will get nominated over Frances. Frances has that monologue, but Betsy just is that show. But I also wouldn't mind Julia Canfield. I. I would love a world where at least one of the Jaja gals got in there.
- [70:19]
David Lynch
Yeah.
- [70:19]
Matt Koplik
Again, it won't happen. I love Britney in Jaja. She has this wonderful monologue about how she, you know, left her country and left, you know, her childhood love there. And also, you know, her bad husband. But she's got a daughter there and she's gonna bring her daughter to America. Dominique is wonderful. And Jaja, they're all. Lakeisha. They're all fantastic. I would love one of them. I don't think it's gonna happen.
- [70:40]
David Lynch
It's one of the. Yeah, it's one of those things. Same thing with, like, the men in Stereophonic where they're all uniformly excellent, that in a weird way, none of them then stand out. Right.
- [70:49]
Matt Koplik
Well, in a way where it's hard to. Where you go like, well, which fucking one do I pick?
- [70:52]
David Lynch
Exactly.
- [70:53]
Matt Koplik
And. And if. If 45 nominators all, you know, have like five guys from stereophonic that they pick, and each one, like, each guy from Stereophonic gets only like, four or five nominations or four or five votes, but someone, you know, all these other dudes get, like seven, then all the Stereophonic Men get left out. And it's just because the wealth was spread so much. By. By votes. But I do think at least one dude from Stereophonic will get in. And we'll get to that in a second, but I think. Okay, so I'm gonna say money on the table. I'm gonna say Sarah Pigeon. I'm gonna say Victoria Pedretti. I'm gonna say Kara Young. I'm gonna say. I'm gonna. I'm going to swing my dick out and put Betsy in lead later. So those three, Your endorsement of Celia for a play you did not like very much has gotten me interested. So I'm gonna say Celia, and then I'm gonna say Natalie Gold. Those are my five.
- [71:43]
David Lynch
Yeah. The one I would. My five are Sarah Pigeon, Carrie Young, which I think is going to be the race of the night between those two. I think it'll be so interesting.
- [71:52]
Matt Koplik
Possibly. Also, I realized everybody that I've been doing my tongue pops that I got read for recently.
- [71:58]
David Lynch
So sorry about that, but okay, let's start over. So, Matt, it's so good. I'm so good to see you for having me.
- [72:03]
Matt Koplik
Thank you for coming, David.
- [72:04]
David Lynch
So where was I? Okay. Carrie Young, Sarah Pigeon. I'm gonna stick with Frances.
- [72:11]
Matt Koplik
I'm so sorry, I'm mispronouncing Benamu. She's also. I mean, she's very endearing in that show. She's so sweet.
- [72:17]
David Lynch
Those three so far. Celia Keenan Bolger. I want to say Victoria Pedretti. I think it's gonna be Natalie Gold.
- [72:22]
Matt Koplik
So it could happen. I think that. That the way that Enemy is, it's so. Jeremy. That it's possible for everyone else to kind of get forgotten. And that's a shame. But I. Yeah, listen, I love her. She's great. She's so good.
- [72:37]
David Lynch
Mother.
- [72:37]
Matt Koplik
Mother. She's Auntie I.
- [72:41]
David Lynch
At the opening night party, I got. Maybe you'll cut this part out.
- [72:44]
Matt Koplik
Maybe you won't.
- [72:44]
David Lynch
I don't know. But I got so drunk at the opening night party. Oh, my gosh. And I, like, we were at an after after party at some bar, like, 3am and I was talking to her, and I was like, victoria, the gays love you. I was like, the gays love you. And she was like, oh, like, very polite. Being like, oh, thank you. Like, that's so. That's so nice. Like, clearly being like, this drunk gay man is talking to me. Get away from me. But she's very lovely. And so I think, yeah, I'd love for her to get in there, but.
- [73:11]
Matt Koplik
She should get a nomination for the performance she gave you at that bar.
- [73:14]
David Lynch
Alone and rightfully so. Yeah.
- [73:17]
Matt Koplik
All right, let's do featured actor in a musical.
- [73:20]
David Lynch
Featured actor in a musical. So this one is also, I think next to musical is one of the hardest ones for me or best revival of musical. Because this one, I think there's a very clear front runner in Daniel Radcliffe. The rest, I could literally put together 10 different combinations of four different people here.
- [73:38]
Matt Koplik
Sure.
- [73:38]
David Lynch
I think that, you know, Cabaret.
- [73:42]
Matt Koplik
Steven Skybell.
- [73:43]
David Lynch
Steven Skybell.
- [73:44]
Matt Koplik
My three locks are Daniel Steven Skybell. And Paula Alexander Nolan for water for elephants. Those are my three locks.
- [73:49]
David Lynch
Yes. Well, I know Paul Alexander Nolan. I think you spoke that one into existence, though. And I think he's very, very good in the show. But I feel like, you know, you were the first to be like, he deserves a Tony. Now everybody is like, paul Alexander Nolan needs to get nominated.
- [74:00]
Matt Koplik
I have influence.
- [74:01]
David Lynch
You do. You really do. Oh, my gosh. But, yeah, I'm gonna put Paul Alexander Nolan there. Steven Skybell, Daniel Radcliffe, and then the last two, I. I think are tricky. Again. I originally had Dorian Harewood, but we're gonna say he's going to lead, so we'll come back to him.
- [74:20]
Matt Koplik
I. I'm going to go on a limb. I'm going to say I would love Brent Comer for the outsiders to get in. I think.
- [74:32]
David Lynch
So good in that.
- [74:33]
Matt Koplik
So good. I think it's might be Joshua Boone. Listen, if it's both fan tastic, but I. I think Joshua Boone, I've heard that Ben Tyler Cook and Ricky Ubaida, I think his name. I heard that they are very much the prominent performers of Illinois, and one of them could get in. But also, I think Illinois might be sort of a jaja situation where the nomination for the show is the nomination for the performers.
- [75:01]
David Lynch
Mm. Skylakota lynch for the Outsiders, also very good. I don't know if he'll get in, but he's very, very good at the show.
- [75:07]
Matt Koplik
I mean, if we're gonna pick between the two actors of color who die in the show, I'm gonna go with Joshua Boone because actually he gets that.
- [75:14]
David Lynch
Big number neck, too.
- [75:15]
Matt Koplik
I will say this. So a different friend of mine who votes for the Tonys texted me the other day because he's, you know, seeing everything, and he goes, have you realized that there are a lot of roles and shows this year that are white characters that they've recast with bipoc actors and those characters die? I went, what do you mean? He goes, well, I just found out at Hell's Kitchen that the Keisha Lewis character. Spoiler first, yes. She. She dies.
- [75:45]
David Lynch
We mentioned the funeral, but.
- [75:46]
Matt Koplik
Yeah, yeah. But also, first of all, that character is still alive in real life, so they just. They gave her cancer. I don't.
- [75:53]
David Lynch
Okay.
- [75:53]
Matt Koplik
And is white so interesting. Yeah. So Hell's Kitchen takes a lot of liberties with both Alicia Keys life and also with Hell's kitchen in the 90s in general and Manhattan Plaza, like, making it seem like this kind of semi ghetto space. I was like this. That. That establishment has had a waiting list for residents for decades. And, like, hell's kitchen in 1997 was, you know, filled with gays, and there's not a single gay character in Hell's Kitchen, so whatever. But he mentioned that he was like both characters in the Outsiders. You said Dorian Harewood in the Notebook. There are a couple of other ones. He was like. It's like he goes. It's just very odd that that's sort of. That's something that kind of keeps happening with musicals this year.
- [76:34]
David Lynch
Yeah. I mean, yeah. Anyways, it was just.
- [76:40]
Matt Koplik
It was just something where I was like, huh, you're not wrong. And I don't think anyone's doing it intentionally. But similar to how the critic for Vulture, Sarah Holdren, got dragged by Michael R. Jackson for saying, you know, hey, writers, maybe let's, like, put a pause on this trope that has happened 12 times this season. It's like, all she's saying is, you know, everyone kind of had the same idea in the same season. And maybe we take a moment ago, maybe I go with my third idea because everyone seems to be going with my first. Yeah, we don't have to comment on that. I just wanted to say that because if we don't say it, then someone else will in a much worse way. So let's just get it out in the kind way.
- [77:14]
David Lynch
I will say, for the record, I liked Lempicka.
- [77:16]
Matt Koplik
I thought it was.
- [77:17]
David Lynch
It was not a perfect show. I thought it was a good show.
- [77:20]
Matt Koplik
You're entitled to that opinion.
- [77:22]
David Lynch
Sure. And I'll say that the drinks that they made me at the bar for the show were very, very good.
- [77:27]
Matt Koplik
They gave me doubles for Great Gatsby. And I. I appreciated that.
- [77:30]
David Lynch
There you go. And you were like, I need it. You're like, do you have triples?
- [77:33]
Matt Koplik
They said, it has to be a doubles at. Okay. And I said, oh, you know, what show you're bartending.
- [77:37]
David Lynch
Oh, interesting.
- [77:37]
Matt Koplik
I always.
- [77:38]
David Lynch
Whenever I go, I think it's the.
- [77:39]
Matt Koplik
Size of the cup. It has to.
- [77:39]
David Lynch
Whenever I go to a drink at Broadway Theater, I always just like, act all fun and flirty to see if they'll, like, give me a heavy pour. And most time they do.
- [77:45]
Matt Koplik
The dude gave me a pretty sizable pour. We were. We were very nice. We were his fourth customers at the beginning of the night, so. And we were very nice, and we very quick, so I think he was good.
- [77:54]
David Lynch
Yeah. Back to featured actor musical. The one that we didn't mention that I do want to throw in there is Brandon Victor Dixon.
- [78:00]
Matt Koplik
Okay.
- [78:00]
David Lynch
I don't know if you mentioned him or not, but I didn't. But I think, you know, again, his role, I was surprised when I saw Hell's Kitchen. He does not have that big of a role. His voice, without a doubt, could melt butter. I mean, he is so talented. And they do give him some very good songs, I think, because this category, honestly, it's just. There's so many people in here that you're just kind of like, I don't really know who would be in there, but I feel like he's also in the conversation.
- [78:22]
Matt Koplik
I think he could sneak in. For me, it is similar to what he's saying. It's a category of so much, and he is given so little. He nails everything that he is given, but it is so little. And for me, that is a show that's more about the women than about him. So I could see it happening. I. I would not be necessarily pleased. Not because I don't love him, but because I think that there are better roles that we could acknowledge. There are people who are still trying to yell at me that, you know, Hugh Coles and Roger Bart will both get in for Back to the Future.
- [78:54]
David Lynch
They will.
- [78:55]
Matt Koplik
They will. The back. The number one fan for Back to the Future will tell you so.
- [78:59]
David Lynch
Also was drunk there.
- [79:00]
Matt Koplik
Listen, if there were. If there's any. If there was any show where I'm like, I will give it two featured actor nominations. It is for me, Outsiders. I would even, you know, I would give Chris Fitzgerald the nomination for Spamalot or Ethan Slater for Spamalot. Either one of them.
- [79:14]
David Lynch
Yeah. I mean, I put so, like. Because I feel like if Michael Urie was in featured actor for a musical, I would have totally put him in.
- [79:20]
Matt Koplik
We do. We know if he isn't.
- [79:22]
David Lynch
We don't. But the role in 2005 was leading.
- [79:26]
Matt Koplik
I think the difference between that is his role was played by David Hyde Pierce in 2005, and the sheer star power of David Hyde Pierce might have made that role seem larger than it was. But also, I don't fucking know.
- [79:37]
David Lynch
I mean, they.
- [79:37]
Matt Koplik
Because it happens.
- [79:38]
David Lynch
The only lead in Spamalot really should be the King Arthur to James Bond.
- [79:42]
Matt Koplik
Agreed.
- [79:42]
David Lynch
Right, agreed.
- [79:43]
Matt Koplik
Because, you know, Taran Killam, also in a role that first time around, was put in lead, but that was Hank Azaria. Taran Killam could go into featured actor. I don't know. The Tony Committee. The Tony Committee still hasn't given a ruling on anything post like November 10th. And it's infuriating.
- [79:58]
David Lynch
Yeah. Because I've been, like, checking it. Because we're also still waiting on enemy rulings. Right. We're not expecting.
- [80:03]
Matt Koplik
You never got a ruling on Harmony. They never said.
- [80:07]
David Lynch
Well, I don't think they're concerned about that.
- [80:08]
Matt Koplik
But what I'm saying. What I'm saying is, like, that's how far back we're talking.
- [80:11]
David Lynch
Yeah. Well, the big ones are like, okay, appropriate. I think we all know it's going to be a revival, but supposedly, supposedly they've met.
- [80:17]
Matt Koplik
They just haven't released anything because it was leaked. That appropriates going into revival. But that's all that was leaked. So, you know, who knows what else is. What else is being considering for what.
- [80:28]
David Lynch
Right. Yeah, no, I hear you.
- [80:30]
Matt Koplik
Yeah.
- [80:30]
David Lynch
You know, and I think. But, yeah, I think those are future actors. We should probably move on.
- [80:33]
Matt Koplik
Yeah, let's move on.
- [80:34]
David Lynch
Let's do future action of play.
- [80:36]
Matt Koplik
Yes, I can. Okay, let's bang this one out. Actually, wait, before we get to future action to play, let's take one last break.
- [80:42]
David Lynch
Really?
- [80:42]
Matt Koplik
I'd like to dip it with you. How do you mean? You're the top. Yeah, you're an arrow collar. You're the top.
- [80:50]
David Lynch
You're a Coolidge dollar.
- [80:58]
Matt Koplik
And we're back. Featured actor in a play. I will knock these out for myself. I'm gonna say. I'm going to say Corey Stole for Appropriate. Eli Gelb for Stereophonic. I'm going to say Will Brill for Stereophonic. Will Keane for Patriots, if he doesn't end up going into lead. And I will say if either somewhere between Tom Pasinka or for Seraphonic or William Jackson Harbour for Uncle Vanya. David is giving me such a cold shoulder right now. I would also. I think that there are a couple of outliers here. I think J O Sanders is a possibility for Probably Victorious. And I think that Michael Imperioli is a possibility for Enemy of the People. But that is a big if for everyone, really.
- [81:47]
David Lynch
Okay, we differ here. Interesting. Okay, I love this. I have Will Brill for Stereophonic, Corey Stole for Appropriate. I've not seen Patriots, but I've heard good things about Will Keane. He's great patriots. I have my boy Michael Imperioli for Anime of the People. And then I have Jim Parsons for Mother Play.
- [82:07]
Matt Koplik
Again, have not seen Mother Play.
- [82:08]
David Lynch
It's a three person show. Right. And so in Jim Parsons, I think has. In Celia, Keenan, Bolger, they have really complex characters they do a really good job at. I think he is so good at balancing comedy and drama in a, like, in a way that I haven't like. You know, a lot of actors are good at that, but he is just like a master at that because he's obviously so funny, but he's also so heartbreaking. And I think he does such a good job at that.
- [82:34]
Matt Koplik
I would love that that nomination happened. Here's. Jim Parsons is an interesting stage person because he is so beloved in the community and he's clearly talented and everybody agrees on that. And he has given performances that many people have enjoyed, but he hasn't given a performance yet that everyone has been in agreement on.
- [82:51]
David Lynch
An act of God. People were mixed.
- [82:53]
Matt Koplik
He. People liked him. They were mixed on the show. And so he was not. He was not nominated. He was not nominated from Boys in the Band. He was not nominated for the Normal Heart. And then he was nominated, I believe, for Lortel, for Men of no Importance, but pretty much no other place. And he didn't win the Lortel for that. And he also, you know, didn't get great reviews for man of no Importance. He's. It's such an interesting thing because it's so clear that everybody loves him and everybody wants him to be successful in this endeavor. And if this is the one that does it, fantastic. But I'm always sort of like. He's sort of like Daniel Radcliffe five years ago. He's like. He's a little. He's five years behind Daniel Radcliffe on this Tony trajectory, where I'm like, I think you've got one more show in you that you finally get. You're due on.
- [83:35]
David Lynch
Right.
- [83:35]
Matt Koplik
But maybe this is the show.
- [83:36]
David Lynch
Yeah. I mean it again. We'll see how reviews come in for it. Because if reviews are good for it, then I can see world where, you know, he gets in. I think that your. The Stereophonic issue that brought up earlier where they all are very good. Eli Gel plays which character?
- [83:49]
Matt Koplik
He plays the main soundboard guy.
- [83:51]
David Lynch
Yes. Okay. That's what I thought because I was like, okay, Will Brill, I think, has, like, his moment earlier in the show.
- [83:56]
Matt Koplik
Yeah.
- [83:57]
David Lynch
And I think that makes him much more memorable. Than maybe some of the other characters.
- [84:01]
Matt Koplik
Yeah.
- [84:02]
David Lynch
But Eli Gelb, I think by the end of the show, you're like, okay, that's like the main ish role.
- [84:05]
Matt Koplik
Yeah. He's the. He's the rock of the show, for sure. I think those of all the men in Stereophonic, those are the two that I am most confident in predicting. I think if we're gonna go for a third dude, it would be Tom. The only issue with Tom is that his character is so unlikable.
- [84:18]
David Lynch
He plays like the boyfriend. Yeah.
- [84:20]
Matt Koplik
And he's. He's so unlikable that it's very easy for people to just not want to vote for that. But he's so good as that role. That scene he has with Sarah at the end of act one is incredible. And, you know, I. I can see a world where he doesn't get in. I can see worlds where he does. You know, I think Michael does a really wonderful job in Enemy the People, but again, that's another situation where it goes. Are we really just going to kind of focus on Jeremy instead? And then, you know, Pearly victorious.
- [84:48]
David Lynch
We've.
- [84:48]
Matt Koplik
I think Kara and Leslie are definitely locks in that category. And if there's one surprise, it'll be Jay, who was just so deliciously Colonel Sanders. But, you know, we'll see.
- [84:58]
David Lynch
And also the Uncle Vanya Men.
- [84:59]
Matt Koplik
Yeah. And what I've heard is that William Jackson Harper is the best performance in Vanya. Okay. And, yeah, so he could be the lone nomination. Let's go to leading. You know, let's do actor, actress of a play. Knock those out. Then we'll do director, choreographer, and then move on to actor, actress, musical.
- [85:18]
David Lynch
We also miss. I think we miss orchestrations.
- [85:21]
Matt Koplik
Yeah, we all miss orchestrations.
- [85:22]
David Lynch
That's okay. Orchestrations. It's going to. I think it's going to be merrily level. I think.
- [85:27]
Matt Koplik
I think we're talking Merrily Suffs, Outsiders, Cabaret, and then maybe Illinois.
- [85:34]
David Lynch
Great.
- [85:35]
Matt Koplik
Since they can't. Since they can't nominate for score. There we go. Fantastic. Okay, so lead actor in a play. I have Jeremy Strong. I think he's winning. I think his biggest competition is Michael Stolberg for Patriots. If Will Keane is considered lead, he will go in there, and I think he will get nominated as well. Otherwise, I think we're looking. How many we have three, six, eight. Okay, so we only have four nominees here. So I think we have Jeremy strong, Leslie Odom Jr. Michael Stuhlberg, and Steve Carell. I think those are the four.
- [86:03]
David Lynch
Yeah, I agree with those four. I think I would argue that it's Jeremy versus Leslie for the kind of. I mean, this is. We just talk about the win, but I feel like those are the kind of the two front runners there, because Leslie, I mean, again, closed show was a little bit ago, but he gave such a good performance.
- [86:18]
Matt Koplik
No, he was fantastic. I'm not saying that it's. It's that it's. Leslie's out of the running because he wasn't good.
- [86:23]
David Lynch
Right.
- [86:23]
Matt Koplik
Michael is currently here, and if you. When you go see Patriots, I found it cold. It's not Deathly Doll, but it is a very cold show. So your mind will wander from time to time. But Michael and Will are captivating, and it's very. It does feel like the Michael show. So. In the same way that Pearly was often the Leslie show.
- [86:41]
David Lynch
Yeah. But I think those four are pretty good. I think if there's anyone that we didn't mention would be Liv Schreiber. Yeah, we have Schreiber, but again, it's kind of like the Doubt. It's like I have doubt.
- [86:52]
Matt Koplik
I have such dudes. Actress in a play. I think this is another one. That's four. I think we have Jessica Lang for mother play, Rachel McAdams for Mary Jane, Sarah Paulson for Appropriate, who is winning? And then if Betsy Item is considered lead, I'm putting her in there. That'll be our fourth. If she's not, then it's Amy Ryan for Doubt, and I think that's a very easy four.
- [87:12]
David Lynch
Yes. I. I agree with you about Betsy Item. If she goes in there, that I think that it's gonna be Sarah Paulson, Bridget McAdams, Jessica Lange, and then her Betsy Item. I would say, again, having not seen Vanya yet, Anika Ronani Rose, I don't want to count her out.
- [87:29]
Matt Koplik
Yeah. I don't know. I don't know why Gold Derby had Anika in for lead.
- [87:32]
David Lynch
I think she's featured.
- [87:33]
Matt Koplik
I think she's featured.
- [87:34]
David Lynch
Okay.
- [87:34]
Matt Koplik
From what I. From what I understand of. Of this production, she's featured.
- [87:37]
David Lynch
Yeah. And Amy Ryan does have love, the story behind her where, you know, it is a big role that she took on very last minute and did a, you know, a good job, a solid job.
- [87:45]
Matt Koplik
Yeah.
- [87:45]
David Lynch
And so I think there is that element.
- [87:47]
Matt Koplik
But absolutely, if. I think if Bets. Well, I'll be honest. I think if. Even if Betsy gets put in lead, I think it actually will be Amy. Now that I'm thinking about it, I would prefer it to be Betsy. But, you know, we'll see. But, yeah, I mean, Sarah Paulson is.
- [88:01]
David Lynch
Is.
- [88:01]
Matt Koplik
Sarah Paulson's wedding should make room.
- [88:03]
David Lynch
Yeah.
- [88:03]
Matt Koplik
And I think Rachel McAdams will be her biggest competition, but it's. It's Sarah Paulson's to lose.
- [88:07]
David Lynch
Yeah. Marysa McAdams is very good.
- [88:09]
Matt Koplik
I'm sure she is. It's just that Appropriate is very much a hit. And that. And it's part. It's a lot to do with Sarah, both her performance and her star power.
- [88:17]
David Lynch
Right.
- [88:18]
Matt Koplik
And, you know, Appropriate could win revival or it could be Enemy of the People, and therefore Sarah will win actress. Spread the love.
- [88:26]
David Lynch
Right.
- [88:26]
Matt Koplik
You know.
- [88:27]
David Lynch
Yeah.
- [88:27]
Matt Koplik
You know, I mean, okay, director of a play. I'm going to say Daniel Ockin for Stereophonic. I am going to say Lila. I don't understand how you say her last name. Nuja Bauer.
- [88:40]
David Lynch
Sure, yeah.
- [88:41]
Matt Koplik
For Appropriate, Rupert Gould for Patriots. Just because it's so directory. Sam Golds for Enemy of the People and Ann Kaufman for Mary Jane, maybe. Or David Cromer for Parrot Prayer.
- [88:55]
David Lynch
Yeah. Again, this will be something where, depending on how reviews come in for Mary Jane, I can see, like, Anne Kaufman getting in there. Because if they're like, this is the best show we've ever seen.
- [89:05]
Matt Koplik
I love it.
- [89:06]
David Lynch
Then, yeah, sure, you know, she can get in. I think that you keep saying that.
- [89:09]
Matt Koplik
Best show I've ever seen.
- [89:10]
David Lynch
No, but, like, it's. You know what I'm saying.
- [89:12]
Matt Koplik
They could just say we loved it.
- [89:13]
David Lynch
They said, we love it. We love. And we also love Ann Kaufman. She's lovely. Yeah, she's great.
- [89:17]
Matt Koplik
I enjoyed her Assassin's Dead encore.
- [89:19]
David Lynch
Yeah. So Daniel Ockin, Stereophonic is my first pick. The one that you didn't mention that I actually have. Pretty high up there is Kenny Leon for Pearly Victorious.
- [89:27]
Matt Koplik
Yeah.
- [89:28]
David Lynch
Because he's really liked.
- [89:29]
Matt Koplik
He is.
- [89:30]
David Lynch
Pearly Victorious is one of those scripts where the script itself, it could go either way. You could have a terrible production of the show. You could have a fantastic production of the show. I think it was a very good production.
- [89:40]
Matt Koplik
Kenny wasn't nominated for Top Dog, was he? I don't think he was.
- [89:43]
David Lynch
I wouldn't know.
- [89:44]
Matt Koplik
I can't remember. My thing with Kenny has always been as a play director. What he does really well is he casts his shows really well, and he's very good at sort of guiding everyone in the cast together, which sounds like a weak compliment, but it's not. Because, as I've mentioned before, there are some directors I also really love who I think one of their biggest issues is they have a Hard time getting their entire company to be in the same show. But for Purley, a show that is very farcical. I wish that there was a bit more inventive comedic direction, but I can see that happening again. Pearly was such a surprise for everyone and was. Even though it is closed, I think that it could benefit from the love that it had. I think. I think our absolute lock is. Is Daniel Akin for Stereophonic and then Lila for appropriate. And after that, it could go anywhere.
- [90:31]
David Lynch
Yeah. So I'd have Daniel, Kenny, Leon, probably victorious. Lila for appropriate. Sam Gold, Enemy of the People. And then I would. Who do I have for the last spot?
- [90:44]
Matt Koplik
I feel like the reason I say.
- [90:46]
David Lynch
Oh, David Cromer was the last one.
- [90:48]
Matt Koplik
The reason I say Rupert Gould for Patriots is just that when you see it like it is, if you know Rupert Gould's work, it's very Rupert Gould. You know, this is a dude who did American Psycho and did King Charles iii. He's just very, you know, not ostentatious, but he's. It's just very big all the time and very abstract and, you know, very clever. But. And a lot of people really enjoy that, and I don't. I think he does a solid job, but it's just. It is a lot of direction. I think that sometimes helps. Choreography, choreography, choreography. We have. Here are our options. Back to the future Cabaret. Days of Wine and Roses.
- [91:28]
David Lynch
This is just every music.
- [91:29]
Matt Koplik
I know, I know, I know. They listen. They had a choreographer, so it's eligible. Harmony, Hell's Kitchen. Here Lies Love how to Dance in Ohio. Illinois Lempicka Merrily We Roll Along Spamaloot Once Upon a One More Time Suffs Great Gatsby, Heart of Rock and Roll Outsiders, Tommy the Wiz, Water for Elephants. I'm going to first say Water for Elephants and the Outsiders right now are my favorite pieces of choreography. Currently playing Illinois starts in a few days. The moment it opens, it'll be a front runner and will most likely win. So those are my top three. After that, I would probably say, in terms of what I'm gonna predict. Cabaret and Tommy, I don't love the choreography in Tommy. It's the same choreographer of his heart of rock and roll, which I also didn't love the choreography on that. But Tommy, I think, will have more momentum behind it, and therefore Lauren the choreographer will get in for that. There's also the possibility of Hell's Kitchen. That can happen again. A lot of really great choreography. My issue is that there's honestly just too much of it. There are times when it's ridiculous when it happens, and then times where it's beautiful when it happens.
- [92:31]
David Lynch
Right. Yeah. No, I have Cabaret out front. Oh, really? The Choreo is very impressive in the show, mainly because it's different and sometimes that works against it. Sometimes Cabaret is very much trying. This production of Cabaret is trying very hard to be different. But I feel like the Choreo being different is it works really, really well. Yeah, I think they use the space extremely well. And again, if the pre show is included in that, I don't know. But. But I have Cabaret Illinois, which I think also it's a Choreo show. Tommy, Water for Elephants and the Outsiders. The one that I'm, you know, could see getting it is the Wiz. Haven't seen it, so don't know. But, you know, it is a big dancey show.
- [93:11]
Matt Koplik
We don't know her.
- [93:12]
David Lynch
Yeah. Hell's Kitchen to your point as well. And then, you know, this is the one I feel like everyone's talking about with, like, oh, we could get in for Choreo, which is Once Upon It One More Time. I think.
- [93:22]
Matt Koplik
I think everyone needs a tough hill.
- [93:24]
David Lynch
Yeah.
- [93:24]
Matt Koplik
Everyone needs to let that dream go. I'm talking specifically to Connor and Dylan McDowell of the drama podcast. Dear friends. Hi, boys. I think you guys need to let go of the dream of Laura Bell Bundy for the cottage. And I think you need to let go of the dream of Once Upon a One more Time for Jennifer Simard. And for choreography. Let it go. And I'll say the choreography for Once Upon a Warmer Time was impressively clean and crisp and intricate, but that show was closed. It was not well liked. Let the balloon fly.
- [93:51]
David Lynch
Days of Wine and Roses. Best Choreo.
- [93:52]
Matt Koplik
Absolutely.
- [93:53]
David Lynch
My God.
- [93:54]
Matt Koplik
Best featured actress for that daughter. My Lord.
- [93:56]
David Lynch
Oh, my gosh.
- [93:57]
Matt Koplik
Best featured actress in Once Upon It One More Time for that kid.
- [93:59]
David Lynch
There was. But there were a lot of kids this season. You had the kids. You had a kid. Inappropriate. You had a kid in Days of Wine and Roses.
- [94:05]
Matt Koplik
You had a kid in Merrily Merrily. And Once Upon a. One more time you had a kid in Lempicka.
- [94:11]
David Lynch
You had an adult playing a kid.
- [94:12]
Matt Koplik
Yeah. 17, 18 year old playing. Playing a kid. Yeah. I think she. What's so weird is she looked older because they were dressing her so much younger. And I'm like, I'm pretty sure she's.
- [94:20]
David Lynch
18 kid in anything. Was there. There was no kid in Water for Elephants. Am I wrong?
- [94:25]
Matt Koplik
No. No kid in Water for elephants.
- [94:27]
David Lynch
Anyways.
- [94:28]
Matt Koplik
Yeah. Kind of a kid in prayer for the French Republic. Like a 16ish year old.
- [94:34]
David Lynch
Yeah, maybe. Anyways.
- [94:35]
Matt Koplik
Yeah, I. There are kids in the. In Greyhouse.
- [94:40]
David Lynch
Well, not anymore.
- [94:40]
Matt Koplik
It's closed. I know, but they were.
- [94:42]
David Lynch
They were there.
- [94:43]
Matt Koplik
They were there. They were in it. I saw them. They danced and sang in harmony.
- [94:47]
David Lynch
Okay, great. Lovely.
- [94:49]
Matt Koplik
Lead actor and actress in a musical. Okay, let's do actress because it's a little weaker and actor is a little more competitive.
- [94:56]
David Lynch
Yeah. So I think here, Kelly o', Hara, Days of Wine and Roses, Marion Plunkett, the Notebook, Eden Espinosa for Lempicka, Gail Rankin, Cabaret and Malaya Joy Moon, Hell's Kitchen. So I'm leaving out the one that I'd be leaving out there that I'm torn about is Shayna.
- [95:15]
Matt Koplik
Same, I think. And if Marianne is put in featured, then I think Shayna takes Marianne's spot. Easy, breezy, beautiful cover girl. I am going to actually swap out Eden for Shayna. And I only say this because the thing about Lempicka right now, it'd be one thing if they didn't get great reviews and then we sort of left it at that. And then nominators would be like, you know what? Eden's back. Like, let's. Let's nominate her. We love her and she's working so hard and she's taken a chance on a new show. But the way that the. The energy around that show right now is kind of toxic because of how everyone has been reacting. Everyone involved on the production side has been reacting to the reviews and has created a discourse online that is not copacetic. So I can see a world where nominators are like, I don't really want to touch that because that's just any things, any feelings I had about a positive or negative, it just feels kind of like a cesspool right now.
- [96:13]
David Lynch
But yeah, I mean, production aside, Eden Espinosa plays Tomorrow de Lempicka in the musical. Lempicka, sure.
- [96:21]
Matt Koplik
Like Elena Roger played Evita in Evita. She did not get a nomination.
- [96:27]
David Lynch
I just. I also think Eden Espinoza is well liked. You know, I think.
- [96:31]
Matt Koplik
Oh, is that what you think?
- [96:33]
David Lynch
Yes, I do think that she is. I also will say again, I'm by the production team of Lempicka. I'm very close with. And so, like, I have definitely different thoughts on this, but they are also really. Your thoughts aside, lovely production team. There's some lovely people behind that show.
- [96:49]
Matt Koplik
People can be lovely just right. This past week has been insane is.
- [96:52]
David Lynch
All I'm saying it's always insane in this economy. But the one I want to call out also that I think will get in. I'm very happy if she'll get in is Malia Joy Moon for Hell's Kitchen. She is a standout performance.
- [97:05]
Matt Koplik
She's absolutely getting it.
- [97:06]
David Lynch
Honestly, if I were looking at this list and I had to vote for somebody, I'd vote for her. I think she'll get in. I don't think she'll win. I think it's going to be between Kelly o' Hara and Gail for Cabaret. The one that we're leaving out here that maybe is could be in the conversation or two, actually, is Ava Noblezada for the Great Gatsby. And I'm curious your thoughts there. And then Izzy McCullough for water for Elephants.
- [97:29]
Matt Koplik
I would probably, for my. What makes these nomination predictions so fun is like, we're trying to figure out how other people are going to think, and it's hard to do that when your own bias comes in. So I'm, like, looking at this going, I think, you know, Izzy or Ariel Jacobs for Heroize Love could possibly get in. But, I mean, I don't think Ariel will get in. But Izzy, I think, does a lot with an okay role, a role that is, I think, much stronger in Act 1 than in Act 2. And she, you know, holds on to it and makes something out of it. Having now seen Great Gatsby, and I have been very vocal about how much I love Ava. I think she is one of our most special, you know, women of this generation right now in musical theater, in a generation where I don't find a lot of special people. I do not enjoy her performance in Great Gatsby, but that's also because I don't enjoy anyone's performance in Great Gatsby. Everyone sounds good.
- [98:24]
David Lynch
It.
- [98:25]
Matt Koplik
No one sounds. No one, when you watch it, has any idea of their character. They're all doing very different things, and they're all sort of leaning into tropes of musical theater. Dom. Which is not itself a bad thing, but watching that was like, this feels like a musical version of Gatsby that people who hate musicals are imagining right now. Like, if you were to tell a intelligentsia they made a musical out of Great Gatsby, I'm like, oh, musicals. I'm imagining that they're gonna have some, like, pop rock opening number. Everyone's talking about the Roaring Twenties, and Gatsby and Daisy are gonna have a big, soaring love ballad straight out of Les Mis. Stupid. And I'm like, well, you're not wrong. It happens. It's.
- [99:05]
David Lynch
They are both of the voice work.
- [99:06]
Matt Koplik
Thank you so much. And. But, like, they have this big love duet at the end of Act 1. All of you know about the green light and then the shirts, and I'm watching it being like. Like, do you. The whole scene with the shirts where she's crying? She's not crying because she's in love with Gatsby. She's crying because she's that shallow. She's like, oh, my God, there are 300 beautiful shirts from London. I'm obsessed. It's Paris Hilton being like, that's hot. But in a 20s way. So Ava could get in again. She is well liked. She's a star, and she and Jeremy are the face of that production right now. But it's just. It's not. It's not a dynamic. What I've. I've always associated Ava with dynamic performances. Hadestown, Miss Saigon. Like, she comes to the stage with fire, and she is so cool in Gatsby, and part of that is sort of the tone of the role, but also she is going a lot cooler than I have seen women play that role before, so we'll see. But my picks right now are Kelly, who, if that were still running, she would win, but it's closed, and I think that's gonna be really difficult for her to get. Marianne, Malia. Malia, Malaya, who's, you know, my issues with Hell's Kitchen aside, she, Shoshana, and Keisha make that show worth seeing. So that's three. I'm gonna say Gail, and I'm actually. I'm gonna say Shayna. I. I think that's gonna happen. Shayna does a very nice job in that show. I think that Eden might be a more fiery performance, but I think stuffs works more consistently than Lempicka. But also, you liked Lempicka more than I did, and there are people who love Lempicka. So it could happen if. If Eden gets in, I'm not gonna cry. I'll be so happy for her. Yeah, I love that.
- [100:45]
David Lynch
Yeah. We'll see. We'll see what happens.
- [100:46]
Matt Koplik
We shall see. Best actor in a musical, Eden Espinosa for Lempicka.
- [100:50]
David Lynch
Best level for Lempicka.
- [100:52]
Matt Koplik
Back to the Future.
- [100:52]
David Lynch
Going. Yeah, Back to the future. We're really playing on the bits here. Okay, so Jonathan Groff, Merrily Yes. Eddie redmayne, cabaret. Brian D' Arcy James. Days of Wine and Roses.
- [101:02]
Matt Koplik
1,000%.
- [101:05]
David Lynch
Also gonna say, who else did I have in here.
- [101:09]
Matt Koplik
What's his face?
- [101:10]
David Lynch
Brody Grant, the Outsiders. And, you know, I'm gonna say Dorian Harewood for the Notebook. Who did I leave out there? That I was debating is both the Gutenberg boys. Josh Gaddin, Andrew Rannells, and also. I'm losing my train of thought.
- [101:29]
Matt Koplik
Who else? Ollie for Tommy.
- [101:31]
David Lynch
Ollie for Tommy. Jeremy Jordan for the Great Gatsby. Let's me out. And then Chip Zion for Harmony, because I think Harmony, if it's its biggest shot at getting a nomination, will be right here.
- [101:40]
Matt Koplik
Absolutely.
- [101:42]
David Lynch
So I don't know. Who do you think?
- [101:43]
Matt Koplik
First of all, I want to give a quick shout out to Justin Guarini for Once Upon a One More Time, a show that I despised, but I was like, you, sir, are doing the thing. And I just want to say, Justin, I see you, I hear you, I feel you.
- [101:54]
David Lynch
Joanna, you're welcome on the podcast anytime.
- [101:56]
Matt Koplik
Anytime you want. Daddy. I think Eddie, Brian J. Groff are absolute locks. I think this is where I'm also sort of like, what if Gutenberg gets a revival nomination? Because people are like, well, I'm not gonna nominate the boys. There are too many options, but let's nominate the show. Or if they're like, well, we're not gonna nominate the show, but let's nominate the boys. You know, it's. I feel like one or the other could happen.
- [102:22]
David Lynch
Right. But they both have to get in if they're not in.
- [102:24]
Matt Koplik
That's the thing. Right?
- [102:25]
David Lynch
Right. Hey, it would be really awkward if only one of them got in. But also, like, you. You. It's like, you can't pick one of them.
- [102:31]
Matt Koplik
I would love. But also, I know that if only one of them got in the social media post that the two of them would devise about, that would be hilarious. Hilarious and stellar. And I would. Because they. They would take it in stride and just come up with such great content. Because the one thing about Gutenberg was that I think they nailed the social media game and actually turned that into ticket sales, which is something that is impossible to do for Broadway.
- [102:51]
David Lynch
Right. Especially because I don't think that celebrity producer bit, from my understanding, wasn't really supposed to be a bit until, like, the first performance, it started happening. And then they were like, oh, wait, we have an opportunity here.
- [103:02]
Matt Koplik
Yeah.
- [103:03]
David Lynch
But, yeah, I mean, I would love. I think they both did incredible work with that, but they did.
- [103:07]
Matt Koplik
I. I think I'm gonna put in Ollie for Tommy, who sings beautifully. I was not enthralled with his performance, but, you know, and also, we'll See what happens. I know they're pushing him for lead. That role was played by Michael Cerverus originally, and that was in features in the past, so that could happen. I would love to see Dorian. Hair would get in there. I think between Dorian and Chip, people will put in Chip. I also think it doesn't. I think people will think about the idea of an all white category, which sometimes it's the way the cookie crumbles, but if there are options to have at least one person of color in there and it's not taken, people will say things. And that's one of the few things. The Tonys are one of the few nominating bodies that do take that into account.
- [103:47]
David Lynch
Yeah. So your five are.
- [103:49]
Matt Koplik
Sorry, That's a long way to go.
- [103:51]
David Lynch
No, no, no, no, no.
- [103:51]
Matt Koplik
Brian Darcy, James. Jonathan Groff, Eddie Redmayne. And then I am going to say Dorian Harewood and Ali. And I am totally gonna back off on that in a day or two.
- [104:07]
David Lynch
So Brody Grant out.
- [104:09]
Matt Koplik
Probably, bro. I think. I think Brody has a good shot of getting in there, and if he's gonna take out anyone, it's gonna be Dorian.
- [104:17]
David Lynch
Mm.
- [104:19]
Matt Koplik
I think.
- [104:22]
David Lynch
Yeah.
- [104:22]
Matt Koplik
Because I think with Andrew and Josh, you know, it's all or nothing.
- [104:27]
David Lynch
Yeah.
- [104:27]
Matt Koplik
And so if it's. And with those three locks, you know, it's. I just find it hard to believe that Ollie, Brody, and Dorian or Chip, that none of them will get in, but Josh and Andrew will.
- [104:42]
David Lynch
Right. And then. But also, we're leaving out Grant Gustin, Jeremy Jordan, which I think I'm not leaving them out. You're never leaving them out. You're like, all are welcome. And Corey, as many men as you want.
- [104:51]
Matt Koplik
And Corey Cotton, say, Corey Cott or James Monroe Eichelhart. Problematic, I think. And. And your favorite, Casey likes in Back to the Future.
- [104:59]
David Lynch
He's got a big social media like moment, though. I. I keep seeing him on TikTok.
- [105:04]
Matt Koplik
He's very popular with the girls because he's young and he's cute and he's gotten success quite early. I think that. And he's also.
- [105:11]
David Lynch
He.
- [105:11]
Matt Koplik
Let's not be cunty. He's talented.
- [105:13]
David Lynch
He's. Yeah, Yeah.
- [105:14]
Matt Koplik
I think he's a very charming person. I can't wait to see him in a show that's not based off of a movie directly. I think that Grant will not get in for Water for elephants. I think he does what he can. But two things are sort of in the way for me. One is that that score doesn't totally sit in his voice. He's actually a bit more of a tenor than you would believe because it sits in a baritone range until the end of Act 1. And then he gets to pop off a G. And you're like, oh, this is where you live. Yeah, I remember watching that act on Finale being like, oh, this is where we live. And also, that role is just such a cipher. And so it allows Paul and Izzy to kind of have more stuff going on and not. And not him. And then Jeremy and Gatsby is interesting because Jeremy sings how Jeremy sings. You know, it gets you pregnant every time. And he's.
- [105:59]
David Lynch
And he.
- [106:00]
Matt Koplik
He nails his assignment on this score as a Gatsby. First of all, he's doing an accent that I don't understand. He's trying. I think he's trying to do Mid Atlantic, but it's. It's. It like, comes off as British.
- [106:11]
David Lynch
Oh, interesting.
- [106:12]
Matt Koplik
Like, he's. Yeah, he's trying to do, you know, Jimmy Stewart in Philadelphia Story or Cary Grant. And it's coming off as, you know, Tim Curry, old sport. And he's also just a weird thing. Like, he's going for kind of a weirdly comedic Gatsby. He does a lot of physical comedy that I don't quite understand. But, you know, he's. I'm not going to say he's well liked. He's well respected in the community, and he and Ava are definitely have a fan base that are coming out to see Daryl. Yeah. Coming out right now. No, his. This is not a Jeremy problem. This is a problem with our. With us as a society. When any white boy with a chin comes out on stage to sing pretty to you, people lose their vaginas. And I'm like, can we maybe remember that we're human beings for a second with the ability to hold a pen and paper and vote?
- [107:01]
David Lynch
Yeah. I also. I mean, tangent. But I also think that it's a trend that a lot of producers are not thinking through that well. Right. Like, I think that there are a lot of those sorts of people that maybe don't move tickets as much as they would like. I. E. See who they've put in Little Shop of Horrors. Right. Very talented people. But I. I do think that, like, I hope at least as a society, we're starting to appreciate, like, more refined talent. That's not to say for all, first off, Jeremy Jordan is, like, basic talent. I think he's incredibly talented.
- [107:31]
Matt Koplik
Oh, yeah.
- [107:32]
David Lynch
I've seen the Great Gatsby. But, you know, I do think it's a really interesting kind of Topic.
- [107:36]
Matt Koplik
What a hot take. Jeremy Jordan is talented. Yeah, no, he.
- [107:39]
David Lynch
Sorry. Yeah, I know. Such a hot take. Well, no, but. Okay, but your hot take is that he's not getting a Tony nom this year.
- [107:44]
Matt Koplik
Yeah. That is.
- [107:45]
David Lynch
He'll be watching from his couch or.
- [107:47]
Matt Koplik
No. Or he'll be watching from the audience or your couch. Yeah, my couch. No, that. That. I don't think Jeremy Jordan would even entertain the idea of gay baiting. I think he just is like, take me as I am, and if you have a problem with it, there's the exit, baby.
- [108:01]
David Lynch
Have you seen his cover of It's All Coming Back to Me now, though?
- [108:04]
Matt Koplik
Sure have.
- [108:05]
David Lynch
Because I don't know about you, but.
- [108:06]
Matt Koplik
You think that's gay baiting.
- [108:08]
David Lynch
That's just. I'm gay and it baited me, baby.
- [108:11]
Matt Koplik
A pretzel baits you like. You are the.
- [108:13]
David Lynch
I love a good soft pretzel, though.
- [108:15]
Matt Koplik
You're the horny anomaly, you know? Anyways, I. I need nip. I need belly button. That's what I need.
- [108:21]
David Lynch
Best director of a play.
- [108:22]
Matt Koplik
We did that already. We didn't do Director of musical. Oh, Director of musical. That's the one that we didn't do. Okay.
- [108:26]
David Lynch
Is that the last one? It's the last one.
- [108:28]
Matt Koplik
Oh, shit. I thought the actor was gonna be the last one. Okay. Director of a musical. I'm gonna say. Yeah. Let me go. Donya Taymor, the Outsiders. Jessica Stone, water for Elephants. Actually, no, sorry. Let me tell you that. Dinah Tamar, the Outsiders, Maria Friedman, Marile Lee, We Roll Along. Rebecca Frecknell, Cabaret. So that's three, then. I'm going to say. Yeah. Jessica's done Water for Elephants and then death smacking off Tommy. Those would be my five. What are your five?
- [109:01]
David Lynch
The five that you gave are the five that I would nominate.
- [109:03]
Matt Koplik
That you would not nominate.
- [109:04]
David Lynch
That I would.
- [109:05]
Matt Koplik
Oh, that you would.
- [109:05]
David Lynch
Okay. I think that Maria Friedman, Rebecca Frecknall, top two. I, Donya Taymor, the Outsiders, Jessica Stonewater for elephants. And the last one I would put in. Say his name. Desmik.
- [109:21]
Matt Koplik
Des Mackinaff.
- [109:22]
David Lynch
Des Mackinaff, right. I would put him in for Tommy. I'm gonna say Michael Greif for Days of Wine and Roses.
- [109:30]
Matt Koplik
Interesting.
- [109:31]
David Lynch
I think that, look, this man did three shows on Broadway this season.
- [109:35]
Matt Koplik
Yeah.
- [109:36]
David Lynch
You know, I would be sad if he does not get in somewhere. But then again, everyone. Last year was like, pippa could get nominated twice. And she didn't. Right, she didn't.
- [109:47]
Matt Koplik
So I think if Michael's getting in anywhere, it's him and Shelley for the Notebook.
- [109:52]
David Lynch
Because also, that's like two birds.
- [109:53]
Matt Koplik
Yeah, exactly. Because then Shelley, you know, gets nominated if not for the Wiz, but with Michael for Notebook. But I don't know.
- [109:59]
David Lynch
Also, I don't know if it's Leigh or Leigh, but Lee Silverman. Leigh Silverman for Suffs could also happen.
- [110:05]
Matt Koplik
I think it's Lee.
- [110:05]
David Lynch
Lee Silverman.
- [110:06]
Matt Koplik
I think Lee could definitely get in, especially because now, because the thing with Sephs, as we talked about before, that got mentioned in all the reviews was how improved it was from off Broadway. And. And Shayna definitely got the heavy praise about that of, you know, listen, it's still not perfect, but you've made leaps and bounds. Props to ya, mama. I think people who understand a director's role in an original musical understand how much Lee probably helped with that, and she could definitely get nominated for just, you know, helping. Not helping, but collaborating with Shayna and making the improvements. Improvements from Off Broadway. So that can help happen. Or Justin Peck for Illinois.
- [110:47]
David Lynch
I would love that, but I don't know if the nominators are gonna be like, there's a difference between choreography and direction for a choreo heavy show.
- [110:55]
Matt Koplik
Well, it's happened before. You know, I think something like that is easier to do when the choreographer is the director. So something like Illinois can fall in line with, say, a Contact or a Danson or a Swan Lake by Matthew Bourne where they, like. Matthew Bourne won choreographer and director for Swan lake back in 99. I'll never forget it. I'll say I never forget. Like, I'll. I'll never forget that fact.
- [111:15]
David Lynch
I'll never forget it.
- [111:16]
Matt Koplik
I'll never forget it. I'll never forget that fact. Because it was, you know, it was a very bold take on that ballet. And it was very much, you know, he had a vision, but it wasn't like a stagey piece. There were no book scenes. It was a ballet. And I think Illinois is Justin Peck's brainchild. And so the whole concept of it is sort of where people. I mean, he won't. I don't think he'll win, but I think that there are people who can think of, you know, he made this happen. He put it all together. Therefore, you know, if this. If this show works, it's not just the dancing is beautiful. It's because it all comes together so beautifully. So I think he's. If not a lock, I think he is an option that we cannot discourage.
- [112:00]
David Lynch
Right.
- [112:00]
Matt Koplik
I think there are some people, there's. I want to grieve. Some people who I think won't get in and did very good work. Alex Timber for Here Lies Love. Yeah, exactly. Yeah.
- [112:12]
David Lynch
So that was it. That was it.
- [112:13]
Matt Koplik
Yeah.
- [112:15]
David Lynch
Yeah, yeah. I'm with you on that. I think Warren Carlisle did a good job with Harmony, but, you know, I.
- [112:20]
Matt Koplik
Thought there were some beautiful stage pictures. I had some issues with his. With some other things. Yeah. I think we have our two locks, obviously, which are Rebecca for Cabaret and Maria from Merrilee. And I think Maria is most likely gonna win there. And then it's definitely kind of open season for everybody else. And I think it's sort of those sort of swimming around trying to find their spot in the pool would be Danya for Outsiders, Des for Tommy, Jessica for Water for Elephants, Justin for Illinois, and then Lee for Stuffs, and Michael and Shelly for Notebooks. That's six. So six.
- [112:54]
David Lynch
Six. Figuring out the last three.
- [112:57]
Matt Koplik
One out of every two.
- [112:58]
David Lynch
Yeah.
- [112:59]
Matt Koplik
And I'm. Of those six, I'm saying Danya and I'm saying Jessica. Jessica and Dess. But I think Jessica is kind of vulnerable. I think that can go to Michael and Shelley or Lee, I think. And I think that's. I actually think Dania has a much more lock on her spot than the rest of the six, but she's not as much of a lock as Maria and Rebecca.
- [113:26]
David Lynch
I want to see her Spider man turn off the dark.
- [113:28]
Matt Koplik
I sure do too.
- [113:29]
David Lynch
I. Yeah.
- [113:31]
Matt Koplik
I have only seen Outsiders and Jonah, But I gotta tell you, Danya has quickly become a director that I am very on board for and want to see more of her stuff.
- [113:39]
David Lynch
Jonah with my roommate from Stage Door Manor, Hagen Oliveras, who is going to be in the revival of Our Town next season.
- [113:49]
Matt Koplik
Was he the one who played Jonah?
- [113:50]
David Lynch
He's the one who got shirt went shirtless. Yeah. Was he Jonah? I didn't see the shirt. That's clearly. I'm a good friend.
- [113:56]
Matt Koplik
You're clearly a good friend. I didn't know he went to his shirt yet. He's got a ripped body. It was when I saw it with my mom and he took off his shirt. My mom was like, oh, yeah.
- [114:06]
David Lynch
Also the sweetest guy in the entire world. Of course.
- [114:09]
Matt Koplik
Seems sweet. He looked. He seemed sweet on stage, but yeah.
- [114:12]
David Lynch
And he almost wanted Tony for his portrayal of Jesus in God Spell in the oasis at Stage Door Manor. It was very, very, very close call.
- [114:20]
Matt Koplik
But anyways, this has been wonderful, babe.
- [114:24]
David Lynch
Thank you. Thank you for having me. I had fun.
- [114:26]
Matt Koplik
I had so much fun. Thank you for coming on.
- [114:28]
David Lynch
Yeah. Thank you.
- [114:29]
Matt Koplik
Yeah. Where can the listeners find you if you want them to find you? Oh.
- [114:34]
David Lynch
My Instagram, which is. I had to think for a second. I was like, where can they find me? I was gonna give a joke answer, but nothing about theater is funny. My Instagram, which is avid lynch or if you're nasty, find me on LinkedIn. No, seriously, if you're into like Broadway analytics, Broadway numbers, I do a lot of posting on LinkedIn about that stuff. So interesting world to find me. Or come see Enemy of the People and tell me that you went and I'll say, thanks, that's cool.
- [115:02]
Matt Koplik
I'm going again on the 30th with my grandma taking her. Yeah, Tony nomination day, baby.
- [115:07]
David Lynch
There you go. Yeah, I'll be really happy. Really, really sad.
- [115:09]
Matt Koplik
Yeah. Well, hopefully this time there won't be any protesters interrupting, which is.
- [115:12]
David Lynch
Right.
- [115:12]
Matt Koplik
I told you. I text you and that happened.
- [115:14]
David Lynch
And I was like. I went. I was. I literally was not on my phone. I was like, what happened? Oh, well, then I came up with the. The caption that the show's so hot, climate change protesters are worried, which they did not use for social.
- [115:24]
Matt Koplik
They did not. Well, I think they wanted to take a little more seriously than that.
- [115:28]
David Lynch
I thought it was very clever.
- [115:29]
Matt Koplik
It was incredibly clever.
- [115:30]
David Lynch
That's the second show I produced where protesters have come.
- [115:32]
Matt Koplik
Parade was the other one.
- [115:34]
David Lynch
So maybe it's me. Maybe I'm the problem.
- [115:36]
Matt Koplik
It's me. Hi, I'm the problem. It's me. If you want to. Want to follow me, I'm on Instagram at Matt Koplik, usual spelling and that's it. If you like the podcast, give us a nice 5 star rating or review. We've got a nice little quick one from this past Wednesday and it is. I don't even think I. It's too short to even do a Light in the Piazza ooverture underscoring. It's five stars. Title is Tunnel of Love and the review is Sideshow episode is the best. Thank you so much. That is one of our longer episodes with Gunkal of the pod. Adam Ellsbury.
- [116:05]
David Lynch
Thank you, Emily Skinner.
- [116:06]
Matt Koplik
Thank you, Emily Skinner. I said it on my review for Suffs and you'll agree with me when. And David can attest to this. When we saw Suffs, the people were losing their shit for Gianculella.
- [116:18]
David Lynch
They were very.
- [116:19]
Matt Koplik
They gave very polite applause to Shayna Taub and Akam James. And then when Emily Skinner showed up, I was the only one who applauded and I. I tried really hard and he basically shut me up because no one else. Yeah, you, you, you took my hands and you put them on my lap.
- [116:32]
David Lynch
Well, that's because you were like about to give a standing. Oh, you were like, this is it.
- [116:35]
Matt Koplik
Yeah, well, because I was like, I knew no one was going to applaud and I was like, I will make this applause happen for her entrance. And it just wasn't happening. And David was like, stop it. And I, at intermission, I was like, no one here is allowed to celebrate.
- [116:44]
David Lynch
Pride this year, honestly. But all those, all the. I'm not going to say that. But yeah.
- [116:50]
Matt Koplik
Anyway, that's it. Thank you so much for listening, guys. Join us for the next two episodes. One is with an interview with the lighting designer of Spamalot and Craig Gatsby. And then the other one is our final, final, final predictions and our hopes for some long shots for the Tony nominations this year. And David, who would you like to play us out diva wise in our, in our playout?
- [117:11]
David Lynch
Oh, I forgot, I normally don't listen.
- [117:12]
Matt Koplik
To the end of your podcast. I know you don't make, you don't make it this far.
- [117:16]
David Lynch
Diva. Diva. Let's go with somebody a little. Not off the beaten path, but I'll give you a tough, not a tough one, but let's go with Stephanie J.
- [117:23]
Matt Koplik
Block. That's not on the. Off on the beaten path.
- [117:28]
David Lynch
No, but it's, it's not like Patty or, you know, Barbara. It's like, yeah, Stephanie J.
- [117:31]
Matt Koplik
Block. Yeah, sure. No, she's, she's, she, she is very much Barbara. Patty for the children, I would suppose. Yeah. Stephanie J. Block. Yeah, like the, the TikTok Generation. They're like, oh my God, Stephanie J. Block.
- [117:41]
David Lynch
Okay. If they didn't know who Emily Skinner was, they're not gonna know who Stephanie J.
- [117:44]
Matt Koplik
Block was. Well, SJB has a Tony and did. She got very big because of Wicked and Falsettos with the kids.
- [117:48]
David Lynch
That's her. She wasn't Elphaba.
- [117:50]
Matt Koplik
Yeah, she was an El. And then when Falsettos went on Lincoln Center Live, all the kids watched it and they're like, oh my God, Trina. So you know, having video. As they should. If there was a, if there was a professional video of sideshow with Emily and Alice, I guarantee you the children would flop. But sjb? Yeah, we'll do sjb. I mean, I, we've had her once. I know we did. I love to hear the music from Boy from Oz. It's always my go to with her. But I'll find something else for her. I know Maybe we'll do writing. Maybe we'll do writing on the wall from Druid or something like that. I'll figure it out.
- [118:20]
David Lynch
O. That's good.
- [118:21]
Matt Koplik
Writing on the wall. Yeah, she's here. She's here right now. Yeah, we'll do sjb. Okay, that's it. So thank you so much, guys. We'll see you time next. Next week. And take it away, Steph. Bye. I have read the writing on wall?
- [118:34]
David Lynch
Try to live forever and give up?
- [118:37]
Matt Koplik
Never the fight you'll need the wherewith? Can't you hear the lighting? As I the light in C? To read the.