A Meandering Chat: Full of Gossip, Trauma and BROADWAY! (w/ Robert W. Schneider)

Summary

Broadway Breakdown with Matt Koplik

Episode: "A Meandering Chat: Full of Gossip, Trauma and BROADWAY!" (w/ Robert W. Schneider)

Date: May 23, 2024
Guests: Matt Koplik (Host), Robert W. Schneider (Guest)

Episode Overview

This episode is an unfiltered, passionate, and humorously foul-mouthed conversation between host Matt Koplik and returning guest Robert W. Schneider (of "Broadway: The Musicals That Never Came to Broadway") about their Broadway obsessions, personal histories, Tony Awards snubs, and more. It’s a freewheeling epic loaded with insider theater gossip, confessionals, personal trauma, deep dives into Broadway lore, critical commentary on awards shows, and a good deal of dirty laughs.

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Key Discussion Points & Insights

1. Introductions and Banter (00:13 – 04:47)

• Matt and Rob greet each other with theatrical flair and playful ribbing.
• They joke about podcasting monikers, Matt's invented German inflections, and riff on the Larry David mantra:

  “As long as you find yourself funny, others will find you funny.” – Rob W. Schneider (01:27)

• The duo quickly delve into opinions on stand-up comedians, the Tom Brady roast (“The only real, real comedian who I thought killed it was Nikki Glaser” – Matt, 02:47), and comment on lazy comedy tropes.

2. BroadwayCon, Podcast Fandom, and Personal Anecdotes (03:39 – 08:40)

• They trade stories about being recognized by listeners at BroadwayCon and share self-deprecating jokes about podcast fame.
• Discussion of Rob’s podcast, ambitions for season 2, and a rundown of its new theme: “You’re Only As Good As Your Last…”—a look at major composers’ less successful works. (05:02)
• A Stage Door Manor nostalgia spiral ensues as Matt relives his “Bat Boy” days and camp casting glory (including Stage Door’s iconic “Our Time Cabaret” and notable alumni).

Notable Quote:

“My biggest claim to fame was that I was the first Bat Boy in Bat Boy there. ... I think that's really wonderful though, that. That's what you're remembered for.” – Matt & Rob (08:31–09:31)

3. Tony Awards 2024: Current Season Discussion (10:40 – 16:51)

• With Tony season in full swing, Matt and Rob discuss the unpredictability of this year’s Best Musical race.
• Commentary on the polarized feelings about "Illinois"—is it a musical or a dance piece? (12:36)
• Dissection of each major nominee ("Water for Elephants," "Outsiders," “Suffs,” “Hell’s Kitchen,” “Illinois”) and why none is a clear frontrunner.
• Discussion turns to "Stereophonic" as a probable Best Play winner, and how it might snag awards for Score and Orchestrations—“That hasn't happened with a play in a long time. And it makes me overjoyed.” – Matt (16:15)

4. Awards Shows: Eligibility and Category Debates (16:51 – 25:26)

• Amusing digressions on Jessica Lange’s Tony moment, “Tootsie” and Elaine May’s comic genius.
• Sidebar about show business relationships and inside jokes ("Bub" story, 18:46–20:58).
• Transition into the episode's core: Tony snubs and omissions. Matt stresses he only picks snubs when he can justify which nominee he’d replace.

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The Great Tony Awards Omissions Debate (22:25 – 67:44)

Category: Best Score

• Both agree on “Smile” as a famous omission (Marking either "Me and My Girl" or "Starlight Express" as possible replacements, 23:50).
• Rob: “Mack and Mabel” (replace “The Lieutenant,” 24:18).
• Matt: “Seussical” (sub for “Jane Eyre,” 28:16).
• “She Loves Me” (Matt, prior episode) also cited as a shocking miss.

Category: Lead Actor in a Play

• Matt’s top omission: Gideon Glick for “Significant Other” (30:10).
• Other mentions: Dustin Hoffman for “Death of a Salesman” (never Tony-nominated, 30:17), Daniel Radcliffe for “Equus” (31:24).

Category: Directors, Choreographers, Designers

• Annie Dorsen for “Passing Strange” (Matt, 37:03)
• Stephen Hoggett for “American Idiot” (Choreography, 37:30)
• Greg Barnes for “Sideshow” (Costume Design, 37:41)
• Rob: Mark Bruni for “Beautiful” (believes it should have won Best Musical, 38:01), Susan Schulman for “The Secret Garden” (41:42).
• Insightful background: Schulman omitted possibly due to perceived self-promotion; Tony nom committee politics discussed in depth (43:18–45:25).

Featured Actor in a Musical (and other performer snubs):

• Joel Grey, “Chicago” Revival (category confusion—petitioned for lead, not nominated, 47:54)
• John McMartin, “Follies” (Rob’s pick for worst omission ever, 49:27)
• John Rubinstein, “Pippin”
• Chip Zien, “Into the Woods” (should’ve bumped one of the non-Crawford nominees, Matt & Rob, 57:32–63:40)
• Lillias White, “How to Succeed…” (wasn’t nominated, 74:58)
• Elaine Stritch, “Showboat” (not nominated, 75:06)
• Vianne Cox, “Caroline, or Change” (Matt’s pick for greatest supporting snub, 75:36–77:33)

Outstanding or Notorious Snubs – Ensemble, Lead, and Featured Categories

• Janine Lamanna, “Seussical”; Bebe Neuwirth, “Damn Yankees”; Amy Spanger, “Kiss Me, Kate”; Barbara Cook, “She Loves Me”; Cheetah Rivera, “West Side Story” (all discussed, 64:53–65:25)
• Jeff McCarthy, “Urinetown” (not nominated for Officer Lockstock, 69:05)
• Sally Murphy and Michael Hayden, “Carousel”; overlooked for best musical actress/actor, especially given the criticisms of vocals in that revival (67:56)

Repeated Theme:
Awards category confusion, Tony politics, and how shows that are critical darlings (or flops) may still turn out astonishing performances and technical work that get overlooked.

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Broadway Gossip, Anecdotes, and Deep Dives (Throughout)

• Matt's childhood near-miss with being cast as Jack in "Into the Woods" (71:13)
• Camp and casting stories from Stage Door Manor
• Jokes about wild rehearsal processes (“James Lapine not knowing what he wanted with anyone in that cast… throwing all the spaghetti at the wall,” 72:30)

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Audience Engagement & Listener Reviews (83:13 – 89:43)

• Matt rewards listeners with a reading of Apple Podcast reviews, celebrating audience engagement and international listeners (including a touching review from Brazil, 86:26).

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Personal Trauma and Relationship Realness (95:31 – End)

• An unusually candid coda: Matt opens up about his relationship history and a complicated, partially “veiled” episode with an ex known on the pod as "Bub."
• Discussion of boundaries, communication breakdown, blocking on social and psychological aftershocks of relationship trauma within the theater community (97:00–105:28).
• Rob prompts sensitive, empathetic conversation about breakups and unintended fallout, followed by Matt’s reflections on intimacy, healing, and why he’s sharing his story on the podcast.

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Most Memorable Quotes & Moments

• On lazy comedy at the Tom Brady Roast:

  “I'm not even insulted by it. I'm just like, that's so fucking lazy.” – Matt (03:03)

• On insider Broadway recognition:

  “People reach out to me, actually, every once in a while, and they're like, oh, I heard you on Matt Koplik's show.” – Rob (04:12)

• On Tony categories and musical definitions:

  “I don't enjoy binary terms for musical theater. I prefer to just be fluid with art..." – Matt (13:35)

• About “Beautiful” launching the ‘heroic bio-musical’ form:

  “...heroes are our protagonists. They have no flaws whatsoever, except for one. And if they're a woman, the flaw is, oh, you chose the wrong romantic partner for a time. ... If they're a man, their flaw is you don't spend enough time with your kids until they kill themselves.” – Matt (39:23)

• Rob on category heartbreak:

  “To me, the biggest lead, best actor in a musical lead omission to me, is still John McMartin in Follies.” – Rob (49:27)

• Matt’s Stage Door Manor peak:

  “...never peak in high school, I peaked my last two years at Stage Door. I worked really hard to make it to the top of the mountain and then I graduated and they were like…” – Matt (08:06)

• Listener engagement:

  “If we get to 215 by the end of May, I will post it [video of Matt singing at a cabaret].” – Matt (83:15)

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Timestamps for Key Segments

• Introductions & Comedy Roast: 00:13–03:39
• BroadwayCon & Listener Fandom: 03:39–05:48
• Stage Door Manor Nostalgia: 06:07–09:35
• Tony Season Analysis: 10:41–16:51
• Omissions Overview & Start: 22:25–25:26
• Best Score Snubs: 23:51–27:27
• Top Acting/Creative Team Snubs: 30:10–77:13
• Listener Reviews: 83:13–89:43
• Personal Discussion & Wrap-up: 95:31–END

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Final Note / Closing

The episode closes with a musical outro (Janine Lamanna as diva of the episode), travel plans, and wrap-up banter about future podcast episodes and London theater trips. Beneath the filth, fun, and gossip, Matt and Rob’s conversation is a celebration of theater passion, industry politics, and the emotional vulnerability that underpins the Broadway community.

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For passionate theater fans, this episode is part Tony Awards roast, part camp confessional, part therapy session, and always Broadway breakdown. Matt and Rob’s rapport, paired with their encyclopedic knowledge and honest storytelling, makes this an essential listen for anyone who cares about what’s really happening on and off the boards.

Transcript

[Rob W. Schneider]

I've had it up to here with.

[Matt Koplick]

All these holier than thou want to save me from the devil. Hello, all you theater lovers, both out and proud and on the DL. And welcome back to Broadway Breakdown, a podcast discussing the history und legacy of American theater's most exclusive address, Broadway. I am your host, Matt Kauflick, the least famous and most opinionated of all the Broadway podcast hosts. And with me today is girlfriend of the pod, dear friend, although it's been a minute since you've been back on. They are the host of Broadway, the Musicals that Never Came to Broadway. Fantastic. It's a phenomenal podcast. I have a few guest spots on it myself.

[Rob W. Schneider]

You do, and you're very good.

[Matt Koplick]

Thank you so much. Please welcome back Daddy Rob W. Schneider.

[Rob W. Schneider]

Please, not that. Not that moniker. Please.

[Matt Koplick]

Okay. I have a. Aunt Rob.

[Rob W. Schneider]

What was this? No, it was. Und it was. It got very German all of a sudden.

[Matt Koplick]

Yeah, something. I don't know. It's something that just started happening.

[Rob W. Schneider]

It made me uncomfortable. I got nervous.

[Matt Koplick]

You? Uncomfortable Makes me nervous. But no, it's. I don't know when. I started doing it a while ago, the History und Legacy. And I don't do it all the time, but I've been doing it more and more lately. I don't know. Makes me laugh.

[Rob W. Schneider]

Hey, listen, as long as you're funny, you know, that's all that matters.

[Matt Koplick]

As long as I'm funny.

[Rob W. Schneider]

To me, that's. You know what? Honestly, if you. Isn't that the Larry David thing? Like, as long as you find yourself funny, others will find you funny.

[Matt Koplick]

I think a lot of people heard that and took the wrong.

[Rob W. Schneider]

I think they got the wrong idea.

[Matt Koplick]

That that encouraged a lot of unfunny people to go out and start cabarets.

[Rob W. Schneider]

Wait, let me ask you a question. Who do you think is the most overrated comedian of all time? Or, like, current, you know, at all time? Why not?

[Matt Koplick]

Oh, Jesus. I think Dane Cook is incredibly fortunate.

[Rob W. Schneider]

Fortunate.

[Matt Koplick]

Yeah.

[Rob W. Schneider]

That's sassy. Keep going.

[Matt Koplick]

Oh, I don't know who else. I don't know. I'm not, like, super on top of the comediennes. I will say. My sister came over to my mom's place and we all watched the Tom Brady roast.

[Rob W. Schneider]

How was it?

[Matt Koplick]

Well, it's long.

[Rob W. Schneider]

Can I ask you a really stupid question?

[Matt Koplick]

Please do.

[Rob W. Schneider]

He's football, right?

[Matt Koplick]

Sure is.

[Rob W. Schneider]

Okay, great.

[Matt Koplick]

One of the few things I know.

[Rob W. Schneider]

Okay, great.

[Matt Koplick]

It's already almost three hours. But it got longer because my sister had to pause every 10 minutes to inform my mother and I. Who. Certain people were at the roast.

[Rob W. Schneider]

Oh, like on the dais.

[Matt Koplick]

Yes. And. And you know what? They were referring to a certain joke. So there were. Some of them were football people who were doing roasts, and some of them were comedians. The only real, real comedian who I thought killed it was Nikki Glaser, which. And I went online.

[Rob W. Schneider]

Oh, funny. She's very funny. She's incredible. Always knocks it out of the park.

[Matt Koplick]

Exactly. But I. I did go online to make sure that the rest of the Internet agreed with me, and luckily they did. Everyone agreed she was the number one of the. Of the roast. But then there would be all these dumb men doing dumb gay jokes, which is like, that's.

[Rob W. Schneider]

Yeah, that's. I'm like, I think we're beyond that. Right.

[Matt Koplick]

I'm not even insulted by it. I'm just like, that's so fucking lazy.

[Rob W. Schneider]

It's a lazy joke to be like, well, you're.

[Matt Koplick]

He's gay. It's like, okay, well, so. And.

[Rob W. Schneider]

And. And what?

[Matt Koplick]

Does he suck better than you? Because if you do, then you have no, you know, room to stand on, babe.

[Rob W. Schneider]

Does he.

[Matt Koplick]

Do we know Tom Brady?

[Rob W. Schneider]

Yeah.

[Matt Koplick]

How else do you think he got so famous?

[Rob W. Schneider]

Tom, My phone number you can find in today's show description, Love, we all.

[Matt Koplick]

Know you only have burner phones. You're off the ground.

[Rob W. Schneider]

You're off the grid, like a serial killer. Yes.

[Matt Koplick]

Your phone is like, my crotch area always burning.

[Rob W. Schneider]

I. Ooh, Ooh. What's going on with you today?

[Matt Koplick]

I was very popular at BroadwayCon last year, and I paid the price.

[Rob W. Schneider]

There were three people at BroadwayCon. I was one of them, so I know it wasn't me. Who were the other two? Can we talk about BroadwayCon on this podcast, or no? Do they get angry about it?

[Matt Koplick]

I'm sure they won't. They'll know.

[Rob W. Schneider]

Do they?

[Matt Koplick]

Listen, I found out a lot of people listen to this, actually. Surprise, surprise.

[Rob W. Schneider]

Anyone at BroadwayCon listening? Cause I have some thoughts.

[Matt Koplick]

I'm sure John Miscavige, former co host of this podcast, who I had murdered, was at Suffs the other day, and he just texted me to be like, I got recognized at Suffs for Broadway Breakdown. I was like, you're very welcome. I'm so glad that you're famous now for being associated with me.

[Rob W. Schneider]

People reach out to me, actually, every once in a while, and they're like, oh, I heard you on Matt Koplik's show.

[Matt Koplick]

Oh, really?

[Rob W. Schneider]

Seriously? Yeah, it's always very nice.

[Matt Koplick]

That's lovely. No one has reached out to me to be like, oh, I loved your stint on Broadway Bound.

[Rob W. Schneider]

Because they're probably not listening to my podcast.

[Matt Koplick]

No, I'm sure are. What it is is that they listen to your podcast and go, jesus fucking Christ. Can I just listen to a story about a failed musical without having that hunt of a host, Matt Copley, insert himself into the narrative? No.

[Rob W. Schneider]

You did a wonderful job on my podcast, Broadway Bound, the musicals that never came to Broadway. Available wherever you get your podcasts.

[Matt Koplick]

I know I did. And I love your podcast. And I'm looking forward to season two.

[Rob W. Schneider]

Me too. I have to start it soon.

[Matt Koplick]

I'm very excited and I look forward to whatever roles I get cast in next.

[Rob W. Schneider]

Oh, is there anyone that you want specifically?

[Matt Koplick]

I don't know. I don't know what you're. Can you say what this series is?

[Rob W. Schneider]

Yeah, season two. Cause season one was all about movies that were adapted into musicals that weren't successful.

[Matt Koplick]

Groundbreaking.

[Rob W. Schneider]

Season two is gonna. Is called you'd Is Only As Good as yous Last, and it's about major composers and lyricists. And like, Sondheim's Bounce Roadshow will be in there. Annie 2.

[Matt Koplick]

I was about to say, it's gotta be a lot of Charles Strauss.

[Rob W. Schneider]

It's a lot of Charles Strauss. Sorry, Charles. Grover's Corners, the Jones and Schmidt one, which is really beautiful, but the rights hold the Thorn. Wilder people are like, no, you can't do it anymore. So this beautiful score is just sitting collecting dust somewhere.

[Matt Koplick]

That's a. That's a shame. Johnson Schmidt, man, they wrote some good shit.

[Rob W. Schneider]

Yeah. I mean, I'm a big fan of. I do. I do. Actually, I think, honestly, they don't get the credit they deserve because they were actually more conceptual and cutting edge than a lot of people realize.

[Matt Koplick]

Yeah.

[Rob W. Schneider]

You know, think of the Fantastics. Think of I Do. I Do. Like, hey, we're do a two person musical.

[Matt Koplick]

Yeah.

[Rob W. Schneider]

Then last five years comes out and everyone's like, oh, my God, this is brilliant. I'm like, they did it 40 years ago.

[Matt Koplick]

Yeah. And. And they covered far more time. It wasn't just five years, but also they. They never really broke big on Broadway. No, I do. I do. Was. Was a success, but really because of Robert Preston and Mary Martin.

[Rob W. Schneider]

Yeah, the names. Yeah.

[Matt Koplick]

110 in the shade did okay and never did great. Celebration flopped, and then I don't think they ever did Broadway Together Again after that.

[Rob W. Schneider]

No. No, they did not.

[Matt Koplick]

Although there's a song from Celebration that I know because of Everyone Take a Shot. Staged Door Manor performing Arts Center. It's called Somebody originated by Susan in Celebration. And in the Our Time Cabaret, there's an audition sequence where people sing, you know, 32 bar cuts of certain songs. And some songs were always just staples in the audition sequence. A lot of other ones they would change up based on who was in OTC at that point. But one that was always done, and I first heard it sung by Samantha Missell, who went on to play Huddle in the Bartlett Chair Fiddler.

[Rob W. Schneider]

I just worked with her a couple of days ago. No way. Done a reading of a new show. Yeah.

[Matt Koplick]

That's fantastic.

[Rob W. Schneider]

She's lovely.

[Matt Koplick]

Did she remember you from the Sondheim concert?

[Rob W. Schneider]

Yes, she did, actually. She did. She was very lovely. Yeah.

[Matt Koplick]

Sam's a sweetheart. But she sang somebody from Celebration. And I was obsessed with that song. The moment I heard it. And then every girl who did it after her. I was obsessed with, in fact, my final otc. I played a specific part who didn't get to sing that song because it was always for a girl. But my friend Hannah, who was doing it, knew how much I loved that song. So she basically would come to my side of the stage every like six bars and do like a little shoulder shimmy with me. She was like. It was our little way of me being able to perform the song without actually getting to perform the SO song. Because it's a fun song.

[Rob W. Schneider]

What is ot? Is that Our Time Cabaret? What is that Stage Door Manor thing?

[Matt Koplick]

Yeah, our Time Cabaret. It was a 60 minute review that opened with a 16, 1, 6, 1 6. No, if only 6, 0. A 60 hour long review that opened with this montage medley number arranged by Janine Tesori, that the bass was Vilka and from Cabaret, but it also had applause, applause. Tradition from Fiddler. Starting here, starting now Let me entertain you. So fucking good. And then we ended. The finale was our time for Merrily. And that was my. That was my intro to Merrily We Roll Along. Was that was that song from Cabaret?

[Rob W. Schneider]

That is amazing. I had no idea. I never went to Stage Door Manor.

[Matt Koplick]

You can tell.

[Rob W. Schneider]

Why? Because I'm working.

[Matt Koplick]

Yes. How dare you have stagedoors working? I'm just not. I was someone. You know when they say like never peak in high school, I peaked my last two years at Stage Door. I worked really hard to make it to the top of the mountain and then I graduated and they were like.

[Rob W. Schneider]

What were your roles? What was like your big role?

[Matt Koplick]

What weren't my roles?

[Rob W. Schneider]

What's the big.

[Matt Koplick]

Well, like my actual ones or what I Had to work.

[Rob W. Schneider]

No. What was, like, the bit. Well, like, if you were like, oh, Matt Koplik. Remember, he did blah, blah, blah, stage door. Like, that's, like, the big iconic.

[Matt Koplick]

My biggest claim to fame was that I was the first Bat Boy in Bat Boy there.

[Rob W. Schneider]

Oh, wow.

[Matt Koplick]

Okay.

[Rob W. Schneider]

That's a big claim to fame.

[Matt Koplick]

It is. And we christened the new theater in the Round there with that show. And the only reason. And you can go back and listen to the downstate episode with Etai Benson, Broadway's Etai Benson, talking about it, because he mistakenly thought that he had seen my Bat Boy, but he had already. He had left three years prior. And I said, no, Ita. You had just heard that I did Bat Boy.

[Rob W. Schneider]

Hey, that's pretty good, though.

[Matt Koplick]

Yeah, well, because. So when I got to stage door, Itai was that generation that was like the big fish in the. In the pond. It was him, Skylar, Astin, Shana Taub, Sam and the boys all wanted to do Bat Boy. And last five years and stage four was like, get over yourselves. We're never gonna do that. And they finally did do Bat Boy my year. And of course, they all found out about it because that was, again, like, one of the shows that every summer they kept being like, bad boy, bad boy, bad boy. And so they found out, and they were all like, oh, who's doing it? Oh, that Coplock kid.

[Rob W. Schneider]

He.

[Matt Koplick]

He grew up to be somebody. I was like, well, only for one summer.

[Rob W. Schneider]

I think that's really wonderful, though, that. That. That's what you're remembered for. I think that's great.

[Matt Koplick]

Yeah. I also did Little Shop of Horrors. I played Seymour.

[Rob W. Schneider]

Oh, I bet you were good.

[Matt Koplick]

I was good. It was before. It was before I knew how to act, but I. I did okay.

[Rob W. Schneider]

Are you the one who kicked off, like, the attractive Seymour like, thing that we now have? No, I'm the one to blame.

[Matt Koplick]

In fact, I was so unattractive that they went, okay, we know more of this shit. We can't entertain this. No, we need to go. We need to go with the pretty boys in glasses and abs and never again shall we have this disaster of a gay play, Seymour Krelbourne, ever again. That's what they said. That's what they did. That's what they did.

[Rob W. Schneider]

I don't believe that.

[Matt Koplick]

I do.

[Rob W. Schneider]

Okay, great.

[Matt Koplick]

I have a conspiracy theory.

[Rob W. Schneider]

Oh, actually, who was your Audrey?

[Matt Koplick]

Charlotte Maltby.

[Rob W. Schneider]

Oh.

[Matt Koplick]

Daughter of Richard Malby Jr. She's talented. She's great. I don't think she performs anymore. She's a teacher now. But she's got a. She's. That girl showed up at the age of 12 at stage door. And because she was tall, beautiful, and insanely talented, was a lead every single summer.

[Rob W. Schneider]

Yo. She's so talented.

[Matt Koplick]

Audrey and Little Shop. Queenie and Wild Party. Ava Prone and Navita, like, wow. All the roles. All the roles.

[Rob W. Schneider]

Wow.

[Matt Koplick]

It's crazy. But we're not talking about her anymore. We're not talking on stage show anymore.

[Rob W. Schneider]

Okay.

[Matt Koplick]

Rob.

[Rob W. Schneider]

Yeah.

[Matt Koplick]

We're doing something today.

[Rob W. Schneider]

Yes, we are.

[Matt Koplick]

Because it's still Tony season. It's pudding season. But I. We're not doing predictions just yet.

[Rob W. Schneider]

No.

[Matt Koplick]

We're not going to go into, like, the nitty gritty of Tony's. But we do have a history retrospective we want to get into.

[Rob W. Schneider]

Yes.

[Matt Koplick]

Which is what?

[Rob W. Schneider]

Yes. The greatest Tony snubs throughout the history of the Tony Awards.

[Matt Koplick]

Tony omissions.

[Rob W. Schneider]

Tony omissions.

[Matt Koplick]

If you want to get politically correct. Because I did have someone read.

[Rob W. Schneider]

You can't say snubs.

[Matt Koplick]

No, it's that someone read me for a filth for. When the nominations came out that this year, I was like, hey, guys, let's maybe not use the word robbed when talking about people who weren't nominated. Because, you know, no nominee literally stole.

[Rob W. Schneider]

That is correct. That is correct.

[Matt Koplick]

That's all I said. And it was also with the matter of, you know, let's not do this within 24 hours of the nominations come out. Like, let's give it 48 before we start going off about who didn't get nominated.

[Rob W. Schneider]

So let people have their celebratory period.

[Matt Koplick]

Exactly.

[Rob W. Schneider]

And then the bitter grapes.

[Matt Koplick]

Exactly. Don't have, you know, one of the outsiders boys feel bad for Paul Alexander Nolan not getting in. Let them have their moment.

[Rob W. Schneider]

So I'm gonna be very. I'm gonna be very honest with you. Cause this is the first year I think this has really happened to me. I have seen this year three shows that have opened in this Broadway season. I have only seen three shows. And, you know, I used to see every show that opened, and now this year I've only seen three. So I. Today I was at Sardi's and they were talking about, like, hey, what do you think's gonna win best musical? I. I had nothing.

[Matt Koplick]

No one knows what's gonna win best musical. Even those who've seen everything.

[Rob W. Schneider]

Do you really think so I was.

[Matt Koplick]

Just at an event where I will say there were a few people on the production side. Won't say. Who? Won't say. Won't say titles. They were very Vocal against one of the nominees this year, just for its existence, not for its quality. Just like it being.

[Rob W. Schneider]

How dare this be here.

[Matt Koplick]

Yes, exactly.

[Rob W. Schneider]

What's the. Well, you don't have to say who it was, but what's the show?

[Matt Koplick]

Illinois. They were very angry that Illinois came in at the very last second and was.

[Rob W. Schneider]

Why?

[Matt Koplick]

Because they don't think it's a musical. They. There's. There's. They. To them, there's no book. Even though I think there is a book, there is very clearly a story. They were just. They were just very anti. They were like, it's a dance piece. It's like. It's a beautiful dance piece, but it's a dance piece. That's what they said.

[Rob W. Schneider]

So. Because I haven't seen Illinois. How would you compare that to Contact, which won best musical in 2000, which was ostensibly a dance piece?

[Matt Koplick]

I compare it more to Move in out than Contact.

[Rob W. Schneider]

Oh, okay. How come?

[Matt Koplick]

Because it has live vocals and music, whereas Contact, it was all had nothing. Yeah, yeah. And Contact actually did have dialogue, whereas Moving out did not.

[Rob W. Schneider]

Did you move? That was the one line. And remember that.

[Matt Koplick]

Yeah, well, that's the title of the second act. Right.

[Rob W. Schneider]

Did you move?

[Matt Koplick]

Did you move? Did you move? Fucking roles. Contact, like, has had a legitimate book.

[Rob W. Schneider]

Yeah.

[Matt Koplick]

And, you know, I thought Contact had no singing. So it was two elements of musical theater, if not all three. Illinois has two elements of musical theater. It has song, it has dance, maybe doesn't have dialogue, but it does have story. And, you know, Les Miserables had story and music, but no dialogue and no dance. But that's a musical. I don't enjoy binary terms for musical theater. I. I prefer to just be fluid with art. And if something uses two out of the three of musical theater to tell the story, then they. Then that's what they do.

[Rob W. Schneider]

Yeah, absolutely.

[Matt Koplick]

Yeah.

[Rob W. Schneider]

See, what I've been hearing is that the favorite seems to be Water for Elephants. That's what I've been Hear. Hearing. Doesn't mean that I'm. It's right. This is what I've been hearing.

[Matt Koplick]

I think of all the musical nominees, it is the most old school.

[Rob W. Schneider]

And that seems to be appealing to people.

[Matt Koplick]

I think it appeals to some voters. Yeah, it's. It is. And we're. We're veering off to where we're getting to. But the point is, is that of all the five musical nominees, there's none. None of them have a large fan base in the community. They all appeal to different demographics for different reasons. You know, I think Water For Elephants. Outsiders and Suffs are the most traditional musicals. They are original scores. Dialogue, Story, and of those three, Waterfall Elephants and Outsiders also has choreography. But between Outsiders and Water for Elephants, Water for Elephants has not spectacle, but it has production value. And it's definitely the most feel good. And it feels more like a classic show in that respect. So I can see why there's some parts of the Broadway community on the voting body that would go for it. Suffs has a bit more of a political edge to it, and it's perhaps a little more current, and I can see why people would go for that. And then Outsiders just has a lot of energy and youth to it and a vibrancy to it that I think a lot of people can get behind. Hell's Kitchen, and it doesn't have an original score. I do think that book is a mess, but it is, you know, on the pulse of something. It is financially doing quite well. It has a critics pick from the New York Times. There is something about it that feels contemporary. And then Illinois is just this beautiful little odd butterfly that appeals to a different demographic. None of them. I don't think any of them can branch out of their core base. So it's just a matter of whose base is larger. I don't know. I don't know.

[Rob W. Schneider]

Okay.

[Matt Koplick]

Yeah.

[Rob W. Schneider]

Okay.

[Matt Koplick]

But you go into any group of fans and you can walk out convinced that that's what's gonna win because it has the momentum.

[Rob W. Schneider]

Okay.

[Matt Koplick]

Just. It's a fascinating factoid I found.

[Rob W. Schneider]

Yeah. And it seems like Stereophonic is gonna win best play, right?

[Matt Koplick]

Oh, without a doubt.

[Rob W. Schneider]

Yeah. Okay.

[Matt Koplick]

Without a doubt. What's interesting is Stereophonic could win score and it could win orchestrations, which, if it does happen, I will never not be thrilled about that.

[Rob W. Schneider]

Really?

[Matt Koplick]

Yeah, I just think that'd be really cool. And they. I think they have earned orchestrations, at least, if not score. And I would. I personally would vote for them for score, but it's. It's score this year is just an interesting category because, again, there's no front runner. Maybe. Maybe sefs. But I think whereas no musical this year has the overall momentum, Stereophonic does. And that hasn't happened with a play in a long time. And it makes me overjoyed.

[Rob W. Schneider]

Good. Yay. Good. This is good. So it's an exciting. It is an exciting award season because you don't know what's gonna happen 1000%.

[Matt Koplick]

The only we know is that Jessica Lange is gonna get up on that stage whether she wins or not, and she's gonna Say, you can have your cake and eat it, too, in this life, Edie.

[Rob W. Schneider]

Oh, I love her. I do love Jessica.

[Matt Koplick]

I think she says that in Great Gardens, the HBO movie with Drew Barrymore. No, you can't, Mother darling.

[Rob W. Schneider]

No. She says it in Tootsie. Please sit around.

[Matt Koplick]

You know what she says in Tootsie? She says, I do love you, Dorothy. I just can't love you.

[Rob W. Schneider]

My God, I love that movie.

[Matt Koplick]

Gay hating Jessica Lange and Tootsie.

[Rob W. Schneider]

She's so good in it.

[Matt Koplick]

They're all good in that movie.

[Rob W. Schneider]

It's a brilliantly cast film.

[Matt Koplick]

It is. And. And Elaine May's rewrites make that mov.

[Rob W. Schneider]

Best performance ever saw on a stage. Elaine May in Waverly Gallery.

[Matt Koplick]

Oh, my God. I only saw that at the library, and it was incredible.

[Rob W. Schneider]

Oh, Matt, you have no idea what it was like live. You have no idea.

[Matt Koplick]

I imagine it's what I saw on the video.

[Rob W. Schneider]

Times 30 times 60, times 100. Holy God.

[Matt Koplick]

Elaine May is one of the most brilliant people that's ever existed in this industry.

[Rob W. Schneider]

I know it's not a Tony snub, but I would like to talk very quickly about an Academy Awards snub.

[Matt Koplick]

Her screenplay for Birdcage.

[Rob W. Schneider]

No, but I would take that. Her performance in small time crooks 1000%, which is one of the funniest comic performances ever on screen. And she got no acknowledgement for it. And I thought she was so good.

[Matt Koplick]

That was considered sort of a lesser Alan at the time, which it is. But she is amazing.

[Rob W. Schneider]

But she's wonderful in it. And she's so funny. She's so funny. She.

[Matt Koplick]

There's that sketch with her and Mike Nichols where it's the guy trying to call information to. To get the number of where he's trying to go because his car broke down. He has his, like, last nickel and his last quarter, and the phone eats his quarter. So he has to keep going through different modes of information to get someone to get his quarterback. And Elaine May has to play each different person.

[Rob W. Schneider]

Oh, that's funny.

[Matt Koplick]

And the first. The first person is always going, information. She always. She responds information. And that was actually something that. When Bub and I were still talking, that was something we would just say to each other. Whenever there was a lull in conversation, we would go, information.

[Rob W. Schneider]

When you and who were still talking, Bub?

[Matt Koplick]

My. My. My ex. Quote, unquote, X.

[Rob W. Schneider]

Your ex?

[Matt Koplick]

You know, I'm talking about. Oh, him.

[Rob W. Schneider]

You gave him a name?

[Matt Koplick]

I. It says. It was the nickname we gave.

[Rob W. Schneider]

Pseudonym.

[Matt Koplick]

Well, it's the nickname we gave each other in whenever we spoke. It was. It was our term of endearment to each other.

[Rob W. Schneider]

Can I tell you something?

[Matt Koplick]

And I never actually will say his name on the pod, so I just call him what I called him in. In the good times.

[Rob W. Schneider]

Can I tell you something?

[Matt Koplick]

Please do.

[Rob W. Schneider]

There was this old TV show from the 60s called My Three Sons. And William Frawley, who's best known for playing Fred Mertz, he played the. Like the uncle on the show. And he was named Bub. So when I think of you with this person, I don't think of that person. I think of you making love to Bub. I think of you making love to William Frawley.

[Matt Koplick]

Sure.

[Rob W. Schneider]

From I Love Lucy. And suddenly I'm more invested in this story now than whenever you told me anything before. Now I. Now I'm engaged.

[Matt Koplick]

You weren't invested when I told you the story?

[Rob W. Schneider]

Well, I was like, it's okay. It's a fine story. But now. But now when I think that it's Fred, when I think that's William Frawley Rob involved, then it takes on different dimensions for me. Now classic TV's involved. Now I'm invested.

[Matt Koplick]

There we go. Rob, you know I love you, but I got a call. Bullshit. You and I both know that the Bub story is a. Is an insane story.

[Rob W. Schneider]

Yeah, but you've just made it even better because now it's Bill Frawley.

[Matt Koplick]

Now it's going to win the Pulitzer.

[Rob W. Schneider]

Now, now I'm behind it. Now I'll fund it in any.

[Matt Koplick]

Fantastic. Okay, let's get into these omissions, shall we?

[Rob W. Schneider]

You gave him a name and that's the name you came up with?

[Matt Koplick]

That's not the name I came up with. It was what we would just call each other in, you know, in. In passing on. On the phone and so what, he.

[Rob W. Schneider]

Call you Fred Mertz?

[Matt Koplick]

No, he also called me Bub. We called each other Bub.

[Rob W. Schneider]

Where did that even? I don't even want to know.

[Matt Koplick]

I don't even know. I. I think I got it from the Simon versus the Homo Sapien Agenda book because that takes place in Virginia. And I think it's a term of endearment for guys in. In like that sort of southern mid Atlantic area, whatever that, like, weird part of the United States is because they would just. His family would call him Bub, his sister would call him Bub. And I was like, oh, that's fun. And I don't know, just one day I called Bub Bub in conversation. And he thought that was funny. And Then he started calling me that, and then just sort of became a shorthand with each other.

[Rob W. Schneider]

I still think you made love to Bill Frawley.

[Matt Koplick]

Maybe I did. Maybe I did. You have no proof whether I did or didn't I.

[Rob W. Schneider]

That I will. I will do my investigation. God, I love Bill Fraw. Frawley on I Love Lucy. Okay, great.

[Matt Koplick]

So get in line. Snubs, snubs, Snubs. Omissions. Let's do a couple, and then we have to go to the commercial break.

[Rob W. Schneider]

Because there's a commercial break because we've.

[Matt Koplick]

Been talking for so long. All right, Omissions.

[Rob W. Schneider]

Give me one of your commercial break.

[Matt Koplick]

I have to do breaks on this podcast. For who?

[Rob W. Schneider]

For what?

[Matt Koplick]

I don't know. Whatever BPN throws my way. Oh, oh, okay.

[Rob W. Schneider]

Okay.

[Matt Koplick]

Idiot.

[Rob W. Schneider]

God.

[Matt Koplick]

Give me a snub. You.

[Rob W. Schneider]

Oh, okay, great. Like, how. How many do you have? How many?

[Matt Koplick]

So I went back because I.

[Rob W. Schneider]

How far back did you go?

[Matt Koplick]

So I did an omissions episode a year ago with Ben Rimmelauer, host of Giants in the sky, also on bpn, and I listened to that episode again to listen, to hear who we both had had. So I.

[Rob W. Schneider]

Wait a minute.

[Matt Koplick]

So I don't repeat myself.

[Rob W. Schneider]

I'm sloppy seconds.

[Matt Koplick]

I asked you what you wanted to do, and I gave you op.

[Rob W. Schneider]

Ben's already done this.

[Matt Koplick]

I gave you options. And you said this.

[Rob W. Schneider]

Why didn't you be like, hey, Ben already did that?

[Matt Koplick]

Because I don't believe in that. I believe in telling my guests to let them do what they want to do, which it challenges me to think of new ones for myself, which is what I did. I listened to the old episode and I said, okay, I won't repeat any of the ones I had before.

[Rob W. Schneider]

I love Ben. I bet you he came up with some good ones. Ah, now I feel insignificant.

[Matt Koplick]

He did, but his audio quality wasn't great, so you're already scoring it via zoom. And he didn't have his mic on, so it's fine. Okay.

[Rob W. Schneider]

I love him.

[Matt Koplick]

I've got. I've got some new ones.

[Rob W. Schneider]

Okay.

[Matt Koplick]

And you can give me some of yours.

[Rob W. Schneider]

Okay.

[Matt Koplick]

I went all over the place.

[Rob W. Schneider]

I did, too. I mean, I. I did, like, the biggest. To, like, the least significant.

[Matt Koplick]

Go for it.

[Rob W. Schneider]

I'm going to. Okay. Do you have a. How about a category? I'm going to throw out a weird category to you, if that's okay.

[Matt Koplick]

Sure.

[Rob W. Schneider]

I'm going to talk about score for a second.

[Matt Koplick]

I think I have two of those.

[Rob W. Schneider]

I think I have. Hold on, I'm looking. I have Two scores as well. What are you. What are your two. I think we're probably going to share one, and then I think we're going to differ on the other one.

[Matt Koplick]

So I don't think I did score last time.

[Rob W. Schneider]

Okay.

[Matt Koplick]

Actually, no, I know I didn't do score last time. My two scores are one. As everyone's gonna.

[Rob W. Schneider]

Yes. Guess I think we're all on it.

[Matt Koplick]

Smile. Oh, I have Smile. Oh. So here's the thing I did with Ben, which we don't have to do this time, but I. I did not pick. Holy. I told Ben last time we did this. I said, I only will pick things if I can tell you who I would replace it with. Because it's. It's so easy. Like, oh, you should have included.

[Rob W. Schneider]

I did not know that rule. I'm sorry.

[Matt Koplick]

No, this isn't a rule. I won't. I don't have to do it. I'm not gonna do it for all of them for this one. But for Smile, sm. Smile was the year of Les Mis, when Les Mis dominated and they got a book nomination. I think Starlight Express did not get a book nomination. So they took Shocked. Right now. I think Smile has also an amazing score. And I. There are. Of the four nominees that year for score, it was Les Mis, Rags, Me and My Girl, and Starlight Express. Les Mis. I'm not taking out Rags. I'm not taken out. I could interchange it with either Me and My Girl or Starlight Express. A. I don't think the score for.

[Rob W. Schneider]

Take Out Starlight Express, I don't think.

[Matt Koplick]

That score is anywhere near Weber's best. But even if you want it to be like, no, Matt, keep it in there. Like, fine, then take out Me and My Girl, which was a score that had been around for 60.

[Rob W. Schneider]

Doesn't matter.

[Matt Koplick]

I'm just saying. I'm just saying on either end, it works for either one.

[Rob W. Schneider]

Does not work for me.

[Matt Koplick]

Okay, well, it's not your omission.

[Rob W. Schneider]

Not work for me.

[Matt Koplick]

My other. My other score choice was Seussical.

[Rob W. Schneider]

Oh, we're totally off.

[Matt Koplick]

Oh, fantastic. Tell me.

[Rob W. Schneider]

Oh, we're totally off. Mine. Well, the big one for me is Mack and Mabel.

[Matt Koplick]

Oh, yeah.

[Rob W. Schneider]

Mack and Mabel did not get a best score nomination, but the Lieutenant did. Wait, I know we're filming right now, but do people see the video of this?

[Matt Koplick]

No.

[Rob W. Schneider]

Okay. The Lieutenant.

[Matt Koplick]

Rob made a very lewd gesture.

[Rob W. Schneider]

What the fuck is the Lieutenant? You know who starred in the Lieutenant? Eddie Mika. You know who he is? He played the guy from Laverne Shirley.

[Matt Koplick]

The oh, so you just hate men now? What do you have against white men?

[Rob W. Schneider]

The Big Ragu. He played the big Ragu on Laverne and Shirley.

[Matt Koplick]

You know what? I did do a score nomination. I did a score omission last year. But.

[Rob W. Schneider]

But. But, okay, so what was yours from last year?

[Matt Koplick]

She Loves Me.

[Rob W. Schneider]

That didn't get best score.

[Matt Koplick]

No, it got a best musical nomination score that year was hello Dolly. Obviously, was gonna happen. Funny Girl was gonna happen 110 in the shade. And then High Spirits. And I sat there being like, who the fuck remembers High Spirit on this day? Yeah, no one involved with High Spirits. She Loves Me, which is a banger. Perfect score from a banger. Perfect musical.

[Rob W. Schneider]

Disraeli's Darling and Homer's Heart. No, that's Home Sweet. That's. That's Home Sweet Heaven from High Spirits. So now, okay, there you go.

[Matt Koplick]

First of all, Rob says he doesn't sing and then proceeds to sing on my podcast from a show that I will not stand for.

[Rob W. Schneider]

No, I agree that. Okay, that's okay. So my two, Mack and Mabel was one, and that I would swap the Lieutenant out in a heartbeat. The other nominees, I think, like, the Wiz was in there, which was always gonna. Maybe Shenandoah. Don't quote me, but I feel like. That's right.

[Matt Koplick]

I think it's the wish. Shenandoah, the Lieutenant, and then I think there's a play with.

[Rob W. Schneider]

A play with music, like the Good.

[Matt Koplick]

Doctor or something like that.

[Rob W. Schneider]

Something like that. Right. And my other one, ironically, is an Aarons and Flaherty that I was surprised didn't get best score. That's my favorite year because. Okay, you tell me. You tell me. Here are the other nominees that year. It was Kiss of the Spider Woman, I think was one of them.

[Matt Koplick]

Sure.

[Rob W. Schneider]

And Tommy. Is that right?

[Matt Koplick]

The only tie for best score in Tony's history.

[Rob W. Schneider]

Okay. And then the other two were Anna Karenina and the Song of Jacob Zulu. Now you tell me that the song of Jacob Zulu or Anna Karenina, that whole score is better than 20 million people. Larger than life. If the world were like the movies.

[Matt Koplick]

You actually want me to tell you that, or are you trying to challenge you?

[Rob W. Schneider]

Name one fucking song from the song of Jacob Zulu. You sing it for me right now, and I'll go home. I think that's a snob.

[Matt Koplick]

His name is Jacob.

[Rob W. Schneider]

He was a Zulu. Sing it, Lainey. Friends, very quickly, if you've never seen this, lainey, go to YouTube. Stop listening to Matt right now. Go to YouTube. Lainey Kazan. Copacabana once again, friends, you're going to YouTube. Lainey Kazanan, Copacabana. Watch the whole thing. Do not take your eyes off of that screen.

[Matt Koplick]

There is a segment. There is a segment that she does.

[Rob W. Schneider]

Segment.

[Matt Koplick]

A segment she does as a monologue. And it is. It's the stuff that drag queens live for because it just becomes material for 10 years.

[Rob W. Schneider]

It's so good.

[Matt Koplick]

Her hair looks amazing and her tits are for Jesus.

[Rob W. Schneider]

But, oh, she's hot as can be.

[Matt Koplick]

And she's. And she. The thing is that she sings it well and then she does that and you're like, lainey, girlfriend, what are we doing?

[Rob W. Schneider]

It's. I. But I think it's still so good, though.

[Matt Koplick]

But I'm like, I know seesaw scarred you, but must we go here?

[Rob W. Schneider]

And the women, you know, she was fired from the Women too.

[Matt Koplick]

So is the Lane stretch.

[Rob W. Schneider]

But that was a. Wasn't that a tour?

[Matt Koplick]

I don't know what it was, but she was fired. Lainey Kazan was fired from the Broadway production of the Women.

[Rob W. Schneider]

A revival.

[Matt Koplick]

The one at the Roundabout?

[Rob W. Schneider]

No, the 1 in 73.

[Matt Koplick]

Gross. What was she supposed to be in that Crystal.

[Rob W. Schneider]

I. The Mistress. Yeah, I think. Yeah.

[Matt Koplick]

If Stephen doesn't like anything I wear, I just take it off.

[Rob W. Schneider]

Yeah. I. Yes. I think that's who she was playing.

[Matt Koplick]

Yeah. I don't think any Broadway play has had more one liners per second than the Women.

[Rob W. Schneider]

Yeah, that. No, that's. That's. That is true.

[Matt Koplick]

That's one of my omissions. I know the Tonys didn't exist yet, but my God.

[Rob W. Schneider]

Yeah. If it didn't exist, you can't do it.

[Matt Koplick]

So. Okay, so. So you have my favorite year and.

[Rob W. Schneider]

You had Mack and Mabel and you would smile and. She loves me.

[Matt Koplick]

No, I had Smile and Seussical. She loves me was my omission last year.

[Rob W. Schneider]

That was your omission last year, Seussical.

[Matt Koplick]

I would happily take out either Jane Eyre or a class act from that year because that was the year of the Producers in Full Monty. But I think Seussical is, you know, one of Aarons and Flaherty's best.

[Rob W. Schneider]

I would take out Jane Eyre.

[Matt Koplick]

Take out Jane Eyre.

[Rob W. Schneider]

I would take out Jane Eyre.

[Matt Koplick]

I find that score to be kind of a snooze. But that's just me.

[Rob W. Schneider]

I. Not my cup of tea.

[Matt Koplick]

I love a good sweeping musical of a score of a classic text as much as anybody. But there are some that actually feel exciting and then some that just sort of feel like, been there, done that. And for me that is Jane Eyre.

[Rob W. Schneider]

Yeah.

[Matt Koplick]

Class act is cute. I like.

[Rob W. Schneider]

Did you see my production of it?

[Matt Koplick]

No, I did not. Because I didn't.

[Rob W. Schneider]

You can go fuck yourself.

[Matt Koplick]

I didn't know you then, so I didn't feel obligated to see the shit you put up.

[Rob W. Schneider]

Wow. Did not realize. Did not realize you had to know me to come see my work. So thanks.

[Matt Koplick]

That's. I mean, that's the only way you can enjoy it. This has Rob all over it.

[Rob W. Schneider]

That's disgusting.

[Matt Koplick]

Why else do you think I saw Doremi?

[Rob W. Schneider]

That's disgusting. Because you love. You love Phil Silvers.

[Matt Koplick]

Well, you want to know what? I went to go see Doremi and I walked down and went, you know what song I love? What's New at the Zoo?

[Rob W. Schneider]

Oh, isn't it good?

[Matt Koplick]

It's such a bop. And then I found out that Heather Headley sang it at the Encores production.

[Rob W. Schneider]

Yes, she did. And she sings it beautifully.

[Matt Koplick]

She do.

[Rob W. Schneider]

Yeah.

[Matt Koplick]

Although you know who sings it even better? The og.

[Rob W. Schneider]

Nancy Dussaud.

[Matt Koplick]

Yeah. That voice is incredible.

[Rob W. Schneider]

She was a. She's still with us. She's very talented.

[Matt Koplick]

Yeah, but like, I didn't know that her voice. I only knew her from TV and from the into the woods debacle.

[Rob W. Schneider]

Oh. What I find interesting about her is that I think the year before. No. She sang what's New at the Zoo at Do Re Mi. And then at three years later she sang where is the Tribe? For me in Bajor, where she also made animal noises. So this was like just her thing. Apparently.

[Matt Koplick]

Yeah. She loves them animals.

[Rob W. Schneider]

She loves them animals.

[Matt Koplick]

She'll fuck anything.

[Rob W. Schneider]

Did you ever see once again YouTube. 1980 in LA. It was called LA Cabaret and it was an hour long show with Karen Morrow and Nancy Dassault.

[Matt Koplick]

No.

[Rob W. Schneider]

Doing all their cabaret material.

[Matt Koplick]

No. But you all know what I have seen.

[Rob W. Schneider]

What?

[Matt Koplick]

This omission I'm about to tell you.

[Rob W. Schneider]

What is it?

[Matt Koplick]

Lead actor in a play, Gideon Glick for Significant other. I cannot believe I forgot this one last year because this was.

[Rob W. Schneider]

Oh, huge. Yeah.

[Matt Koplick]

For me.

[Rob W. Schneider]

Yep. Yeah. Gideon in that. Dustin Hoffman in Death of a salesman 84.

[Matt Koplick]

Dustin Hoffman never nominated for a Tony.

[Rob W. Schneider]

I'm pretty sure Daniel Radcliffe and Equus I thought deserved a Tony nomination. I thought he was marvelous.

[Matt Koplick]

I did not see him.

[Rob W. Schneider]

He was wonderful.

[Matt Koplick]

I've got a couple. I've got a couple. First of all, Paul Alexander Nolan for Eric. Everything. Anything he's done Tony worthy. Some. He hasn't always been in the best things. Dr. Zhivago. But I thought that he was the other good thing in Bright Star, other than Carmen Cusack. I thought that he brought all the danger to the last revival of Parade. I thought that he was the only good thing about Chivago. He was an incredibly well sung Jesus and Jesus Christ Superstar. He was. He went there in slave play. He's.

[Rob W. Schneider]

Oh, he was marvelous.

[Matt Koplick]

He brings the danger and water from elephants. I'm just in here going, what does the man have to fucking do? What does he have to do?

[Rob W. Schneider]

Also, big snub for me from years ago. Nathan Lane in Love, Valor, Compassion.

[Matt Koplick]

Yeah.

[Rob W. Schneider]

Somehow did not get a nomination.

[Matt Koplick]

Big, big one. Had he left the show by then, that might have been it.

[Rob W. Schneider]

I don't remember.

[Matt Koplick]

He left Love, Valor, Compassion to do the Birdcage, I'm pretty sure.

[Rob W. Schneider]

Okay.

[Matt Koplick]

Because the Birdcage came out while he was doing Forum.

[Rob W. Schneider]

Okay.

[Matt Koplick]

And I think it was like a year in between.

[Rob W. Schneider]

Either way, though. I mean. No, no, no. But I know what you're saying. But I. To me, I feel like that's really regretful if the. If the nominators are like, you know, oh, he was. We don't remember. There's no way you can forget this performance. This performance was so good. It was so beautifully etched. I don't understand why he wouldn't get a nomination for it.

[Matt Koplick]

And that was a show where three men got nominated and all wonderful nominations. And I think Nathan, they ended up putting him in lead randomly enough, and. Which is crazy because that's a show that is truly an ensemble show. There is no lead.

[Rob W. Schneider]

Yeah, but. And he still didn't get a nomination for the fucking thing. That monologue that he has.

[Matt Koplick]

Oh, absolutely.

[Rob W. Schneider]

At the end of the show, he's just a.

[Matt Koplick]

What?

[Rob W. Schneider]

He's just wonderful in this.

[Matt Koplick]

He is. There's Nathan. I call him Nathan. Like, we're contemporary. Nathan is a performer who understands exactly where the laugh needs to be and knows where the drama needs to be.

[Rob W. Schneider]

Yeah.

[Matt Koplick]

And it never feels mechanical and never feels calibrated. It always feels organic because it just. It comes naturally to us. And so he brought the funny in Love, Valor, Compassion, while also bringing the pathos in a way that didn't feel forced. And I don't think that play would have succeeded as well as it did without him. Actually, I know that it wouldn't have because I've seen it done without him, and it doesn't work as well.

[Rob W. Schneider]

And, you know, he wasn't supposed to do it originally.

[Matt Koplick]

Who was it supposed to be?

[Rob W. Schneider]

So the story goes. And he. And I Used to have a podcast called behind the Curtain, Broadway's Living Legends.

[Matt Koplick]

But then too many of your guests were dying and they had to shut it down.

[Rob W. Schneider]

Yes. And we were like, sir, you're now a health hazard. You can't do this.

[Matt Koplick]

You have to quarantine for six months.

[Rob W. Schneider]

You have to quarantine for six months. And I don't know why. I thought it'd be great to go on the road with it in Wuhan, but that. That didn't seem to work out all that well. Boop. Thank you so much. No, it was supposed to be somebody else. I can't remember who. And at the reading for the producers of it, something happened where the guy who was supposed to play it either got sick or he got stuck in traffic. And they were like, can you come and help us out? And then I think, if I remember correctly, the producers were like, we're not gonna go forward unless he's doing it. So Nathan Lane, like, went to the reading as, like, a friend, like, to go watch the reading, and ended up being in it. If you listen to my episode with him, he tells the story because he.

[Matt Koplick]

Did lisbon traviata for McNally years prior. So I'm sure there was.

[Rob W. Schneider]

And Lips Together, teeth Apart. And he had done. He had done a bunch of other stuff. He done. And I think he had just finished. Laughter on the 23rd floor also, where he wasn't supposed to be the lead in that. That was supposed to be Paul Provenza.

[Matt Koplick]

I wonder, was he. I wonder if he was always supposed to be the lead in Guys and Dolls, maybe.

[Rob W. Schneider]

This for the. The Jerry Zaks one.

[Matt Koplick]

Yeah, I would.

[Rob W. Schneider]

You know what? I would. I was really interested in seeing. I don't know if you remember this. In the 1980s, prior to the Jerry Zaks one, Michael Kidd was supposed to do a revival of it, and it was supposed to be Ron Silver and Judith Ivey as Nathan and Adelaide. And sky was supposed to be Tom Selleck. And I cannot remember who was supposed to be. Oh, Patty Cohen. Hour was supposed to be Sarah Brown.

[Matt Koplick]

Oh, she would have been so fucking good.

[Rob W. Schneider]

But, I mean, I think that actually would have been a really good, interesting, wonderful cast.

[Matt Koplick]

That would have been.

[Rob W. Schneider]

But Jerry Zaks is just.

[Matt Koplick]

Yeah, it's pretty legendary. I also wonder if there was ever any rumor that the Richard Ayer production from the national was ever gonna come.

[Rob W. Schneider]

Here from the 80s. Yeah, I don't think so. I think, for whatever reason, that one just felt like it was gonna stay over in London.

[Matt Koplick]

Well, I know that Frank Rich had A tendency to go over to London and kind of kill any momentum.

[Rob W. Schneider]

Yeah.

[Matt Koplick]

Any of those revivals had. It's what made the Carousel that came over so special was because he opened his whole review from the London one being like, every time the Brits are like, we did it. We fixed your American musical. I come over and it's not true. He goes, this time I actually did it. Yeah, but.

[Rob W. Schneider]

But Ben Brantley made up for it, because any fucking show that came from England with people drinking tea, he was like, this is the best thing ever. And you were like, really? The Pittman painters? Really? I have to sit through this again? Listen, the History Boys.

[Matt Koplick]

History Boys is good. I don't care what you have to say. Jesse Green also has his. His mulligans.

[Rob W. Schneider]

But God of Carnage, really? Okay, good.

[Matt Koplick]

God of Carnage was fun.

[Rob W. Schneider]

God of Carnage is horrible play. Play.

[Matt Koplick]

But it was a fun time.

[Rob W. Schneider]

Horrible play.

[Matt Koplick]

It was directed so well.

[Rob W. Schneider]

Play.

[Matt Koplick]

You know what's a horrible play? Your face.

[Rob W. Schneider]

That's fine. At least I don't charge you $175 to see it.

[Matt Koplick]

Oh, you don't?

[Rob W. Schneider]

No. Well, on only fans, I actually charge a little bit extra for you to see that.

[Matt Koplick]

There was a rumor also that at one point after Evita, Julie Stein went up to Patti LuPone and asked her if she was interested in a Funny Girl revival. And she said, I would never want to follow Barbra Streisand, who went up to her. Apparently, Julie Stein went up to. To Patty after Evita and said, I think you've got the voice for a Funny Girl revival. And she was like, why would I try to follow Barbara?

[Rob W. Schneider]

Yeah, okay, I get that.

[Matt Koplick]

So she. She compromised and did a revival of Oliver that lasted two weeks.

[Rob W. Schneider]

How dare you?

[Matt Koplick]

It's true.

[Rob W. Schneider]

She was great. Actually, you know what, Play? I really do like art.

[Matt Koplick]

That's a fun one.

[Rob W. Schneider]

I actually. I do like art.

[Matt Koplick]

Okay, so I gave you Gideon Glick and significant other. Give me two.

[Rob W. Schneider]

I gave. I gave you Daniel Radcliffe. I gave you Nathan Lane.

[Matt Koplick]

Sure.

[Rob W. Schneider]

I gave you. I'm trying to think if there's anybody. No, those are really my play ones that I'm just kind of like, do.

[Matt Koplick]

I have any other. I don't know if I have. I don't think I have any other plays. Most of my others are musicals. I have.

[Rob W. Schneider]

Okay, let me give you minor musicals. Oh, I have a couple of directors.

[Matt Koplick]

I have a direct. I have a director. I have a. I have two directors.

[Rob W. Schneider]

Who are your two directors?

[Matt Koplick]

So I have a director, I have a choreographer, and I Have a costume designer and remember some. There are some omissions on my end because I covered them a year ago. So like George C. Wolf with Wild Party is not on here because I already said that.

[Rob W. Schneider]

But I have with Wild Party.

[Matt Koplick]

He wasn't nominated for Wild Party.

[Rob W. Schneider]

That's the one that came to Broadway. Oh, they both came to Broadway. Yes.

[Matt Koplick]

Only one came to Broadway. The Lachiusa came to Broadway. And that's one the Wolf directed and didn't get nominated for it. That's the one that Encores is gonna be doing next year. Oh, I have Annie Dorsen for Passing Strange. Director, yes. Director not nominated. And I would kick the fuck out of bed Arthur Lawrence for Gypsy for his nine Hour Gypsy.

[Rob W. Schneider]

Oh my God.

[Matt Koplick]

I have Stephen Hoggett for choreography for American Idiot. And I would kick out of bed Rob Ashford for Promises Promises. And I have Greg Barnes for costume design for Sideshow in 1998.

[Rob W. Schneider]

And who would you kick out for that one?

[Matt Koplick]

Probably William Ivey Long for Cabaret, which were solid costumes, but they weren't. I get why they were nominated, but I think that what he did with Sideshow was more impressive in my.

[Rob W. Schneider]

In my opinion.

[Matt Koplick]

Well, there was two of them.

[Rob W. Schneider]

Him. Cuz he did it twice.

[Matt Koplick]

He did it twice. And backwards and. And in high heels.

[Rob W. Schneider]

Oh, oh, no, no, no. Mine. I'm gonna give you two directors.

[Matt Koplick]

Give it to me.

[Rob W. Schneider]

One is Mark Bruny for Beautiful. I thought Beautiful was absolutely fantastic. I still think Beautiful should have won best musical that year because it lost to A Gentleman's Guide to Love and Murder. Gentleman's Guide to Love and Murder.

[Matt Koplick]

Oh, I didn't know that Paul Ford was in the studio right now.

[Rob W. Schneider]

There you. That. I'm sorry. Beautiful. Mark Bruni should have gotten a director's nomination for that. Sorry, that. That. That I think was a.

[Matt Koplick]

That it was. It was. What's his face? For Gentleman's Guide was Darko.

[Rob W. Schneider]

For Gentleman's Guide was Warren Carlisle. And I'll be honest with you, I think Darko's work on that is very good.

[Matt Koplick]

He did. He did do a good job. Was Warren Carlisle nominated for After Midnight?

[Rob W. Schneider]

Warren was nominated for After Midnight. And Casey was nominated for Aladdin.

[Matt Koplick]

I don't think he was.

[Rob W. Schneider]

I thought he was.

[Matt Koplick]

Maybe. I know that I could be wrong. Lee Silverman was nominated for Violet. Michael Mayer was nominated for Hedwig.

[Rob W. Schneider]

Oh, then maybe I'm wrong. Maybe it wasn't Casey.

[Matt Koplick]

Yeah, I think Casey was nominated for Choreo. Okay, great that that's happened with him. Sometimes he's gotten nominated for Choreo, not in the reverse.

[Rob W. Schneider]

Who got nominated for After Midnight? Warren Carlyle.

[Matt Koplick]

Unless it was Casey for Aladdin. I thought Warren Carlyle did get nominated.

[Rob W. Schneider]

I don't know. Whoever it was, to me, I felt Beautiful should have won Best Musical. And I feel like Mark Bruni should have at least gotten a nomination for Best director, so. And Darko, stylization of Gentleman's Guide is really lovely. I'm just not.

[Matt Koplick]

Yes, I've said this before about Beautiful. I think Beautiful is a solid musical. My issue is that. And it's not at the show's fault, but it launched the new framework for bio jukebox musicals, which is Heroes are our protagonist. They have no flaws whatsoever, except for one. And if they're a woman, the flaw is, oh, you chose the wrong romantic partner for a time. But don't worry, you're gonna dump them in Act 2. And if they're a man, their flaw is you don't spend enough time with your kids until they kill themselves.

[Rob W. Schneider]

What show is that?

[Matt Koplick]

Ain't too proud. Jersey Boys. I was. I'm assuming the Johnny Cash musical, which is.

[Rob W. Schneider]

Which will be coming up pretty soon, I'm sure.

[Matt Koplick]

But, you know, with. With Beautiful, that's followed up by Tina and Summer and the Cher show, and it's. It's.

[Rob W. Schneider]

And you don't like that, is what you're saying?

[Matt Koplick]

I don't. I find it kind of. It's because the estates are the ones that now produce it, so the leads can't have any flaws anymore. They can't be human beings. And that was sort of the case with Beautiful.

[Rob W. Schneider]

Okay, here's the next person I'm gonna mention. And I'm trying to figure out if I want to tell this story or if I don't want to tell this story, because I also.

[Matt Koplick]

I was right. It was Warren Carlisle for After Midnight. So you can kick him out of bed for Mark Bruni if you want.

[Rob W. Schneider]

Okay. Thank you.

[Matt Koplick]

Warren can still win his Tony for choreography.

[Rob W. Schneider]

My next one is Susan Shulman for Secret Garden.

[Matt Koplick]

That's a good one.

[Rob W. Schneider]

And I'm gonna tell you why it upsets me. Okay, one full disclosure. Susan was my mentor in graduate school, so that's.

[Matt Koplick]

That' one before John Doyle. There was her teeny Todd.

[Rob W. Schneider]

Yes, there was. Oh, my God. You know who I just had lunch with today?

[Matt Koplick]

Who?

[Rob W. Schneider]

Beth Fowler.

[Matt Koplick]

I love that bitch. I don't know her, but I love her.

[Rob W. Schneider]

You know who else was there? This is gonna get. This is this. When you said smile? That's What I wanted to tell you. Ivy Austin. Now, you might go. Who is Ivy Austin? She also starred in a musical the same season as Smile. What musical was that? Mr. Koplik.

[Matt Koplick]

Flop musical. Not Rags.

[Rob W. Schneider]

You're. Oh, my God. You're kind of close, though. Okay, with the title. Not Rags, but Facts. No. Raggedy Ann.

[Matt Koplick]

Raggedy Ann, yes. Shit. The show that was, like, a huge hit in Russia.

[Rob W. Schneider]

Yeah, they loved it in Russia.

[Matt Koplick]

They loved how, like, the little girl died at the end.

[Rob W. Schneider]

Where's that triad? Moscow.

[Matt Koplick]

We were in Moscow.

[Rob W. Schneider]

Where?

[Matt Koplick]

They were just huge. Oh, my God, that show was huge there.

[Rob W. Schneider]

Yeah. So, anyway. Anyway, I had lunch with them today, so. Susan, Shaman.

[Matt Koplick]

Yes. So wait, before you tell the story, let's take a quick break.

[Rob W. Schneider]

Okay.

[Matt Koplick]

Billy, I beg to differ with you. How do you mean? You're the top. Yeah. You're an arrow collar.

[Rob W. Schneider]

You're the top.

[Matt Koplick]

You're a Coolidge dollar. You're the nimble thread of the female. And we're back. Okay, now tell your story.

[Rob W. Schneider]

Okay, so Susan helmed Secret garden, which in 91, 92, I believe, was the first all female led creative team. Everyone was a female on it. And she.

[Matt Koplick]

What?

[Rob W. Schneider]

Everyone was like, no, no, no, no. Except Michael Lichtfeld, who was the choreographer. He was the only outlier.

[Matt Koplick]

Susan was the director. Marsha Norman did the book and the lyrics. Lucy Simon, Theona Vi Aldridge did the costume.

[Rob W. Schneider]

Heidi Landisman did set, and Aaron Musser did lights. Yeah, yeah. I mean, so. And Janine Tesori was the conductor or the music director.

[Matt Koplick]

She. I think she replaces the music director.

[Rob W. Schneider]

Okay, so anyway, so she's also part of this whole process. Right?

[Matt Koplick]

Another woman.

[Rob W. Schneider]

Another woman. So the story goes. So Susan does not get a nomination for Best director. Instead, like, somebody who directed those Were the Days, which was, I think, was like a celebration to, like, the Catskills or something like that. Like, they got it. And it was very shocking. And finally, I spoke to somebody who was in the Tony Committee that year, and I said, what happened? And they said, here's what happened. Now, I don't know if this is a true story, but if it is, I think it's really good to show people that, like, a lot more goes into the nominating process than we think.

[Matt Koplick]

Yeah.

[Rob W. Schneider]

They said that her name came up in the nominating process, and people said, you know what? All she did was go around saying that she was gonna get a Tony nomination for this because she was the first woman and blah, blah, bl. Let's not give it to her because she's getting too big. Like, it was a. We're gonna puncture. We're gonna pop her balloon a little bit. And so what I heard from this person, off the record, was that this was a deliberate. And nothing at all to do with the artistry. It had nothing at all to do with her direction. It had to do with what they thought was as. She's peacocking too much.

[Matt Koplick]

Yeah.

[Rob W. Schneider]

I. So I don't know.

[Matt Koplick]

I mean, she was nominated for something.

[Rob W. Schneider]

She was. She was nominated for the Sweeney Revival in 89.

[Matt Koplick]

89. The 90 tonys, but it came out in 89. And that was very well regarded.

[Rob W. Schneider]

Yeah.

[Matt Koplick]

But. Yeah, you. I have found that I think now you can still get nominated when you do this, but when you start not peacocking, but when you start promoting, like, the history that could be made by your win or something like that, you can still get nominated, but you probably won't win.

[Rob W. Schneider]

This apparently, was in the nominating committee discussion. Every. Apparently a majority of people said, oh, well, Susan for Secret Garden. And a few other people were like, nope, absolutely not.

[Matt Koplick]

Well, the nominating process used to be different because now people vote via ballot.

[Rob W. Schneider]

Yes.

[Matt Koplick]

On their own. And it all gets submitted and it gets.

[Rob W. Schneider]

It used to be they would come in a room and they would talk.

[Matt Koplick]

Yeah. And then. And then after that it became. Everyone talked and then did secret ballots in the room on their own. But it was a. What's wrong? Looking for. It was preferential ballot. Because then what happened was in 96, when Big got nominated for book score, actress, choreographer, supporting actor, and then not musical, but fucking swinging on a star and not wandering, but there was like an carnival mass. Yeah, something like that. It was. It was Swinging on Star and some other show that got nominated for best Musical, both of which had closed, long been closed and were well regarded.

[Rob W. Schneider]

Chronicle of a Death Foretold. No.

[Matt Koplick]

Maybe.

[Rob W. Schneider]

No, that's.

[Matt Koplick]

It's. It's one. It's something like that. It's either Wandarion or Chronicle of Death Foretold. Something like that.

[Rob W. Schneider]

No, you have to say the full title one Derian A Carnival. That's what they used to say it.

[Matt Koplick]

On the commercial, that one. But Richard Malbey Jr. Wrote a letter to the Times, which he ended up not publishing. But it's in the book.

[Rob W. Schneider]

Richard Malpy.

[Matt Koplick]

Yeah, it's a. It's in the book about Big making it big. They put the letter in the back. He spoke to different Tony nominators who are friends. He was like, hey, like, no, I'm not. Like, I'm a little Sad that we didn't get the musical nomination, but thank you for, like, the book nomination and the score nomination. Like, could you maybe, like, explain to me why you thought, like, the writing was good, but the show itself wasn't? Like, what. What's the. What's the disparity? And he said. And he. He says, I'm only readiness to the Times because I spoke to quite a few members and they said, I don't know what happened. I put you in my four for score for best musical.

[Rob W. Schneider]

You think that's true, or you think they were bullshitting Richard to be nice?

[Matt Koplick]

But then. Because if they were bullshitting him to be nice, why not just say, here's why I nominated you for score.

[Rob W. Schneider]

Because sometimes it's easier to.

[Matt Koplick]

Sometimes, I guess. But it's just such. It's. But it's also like, it's weirder to even do the mental gymnastics of, well, I think your book and score are good, but the show's not. It's like, what? But so what he had said was, maybe they're bullshitting me. I don't know. He's like. But it's entirely possible that enough people either put big, like, at their number four or their or, like, off the or, or put. Because they knew that Rent and Bring into Noise, Bring into Funk were absolute locks. They put in Swinging on a Star and Wandarion Carnival Mas at their number one and number two. So on the preferential ballot, they could.

[Rob W. Schneider]

Juan de Riyan, a carnival.

[Matt Koplick]

Carnival. Juan Carian, a carnival. Put those two at the top of their four. So that way they had enough of a preferential boost to make it in the end. And whether that's true or not, the preferential ballot for nominating either went away the following year or the year after that. By the end, before the 90s were over, that system of nominating was. Was done.

[Rob W. Schneider]

Okay.

[Matt Koplick]

So it's interesting. It's just now these things do happen. So you had Susan Shulman for Secret Garden.

[Rob W. Schneider]

Okay, yes, I. Mine were. Mine were Susan and Mark Bruni in terms of directing.

[Matt Koplick]

I also have Stephen Hoggett for choreography for American Idiot, as I said.

[Rob W. Schneider]

Yeah. Which I think is a great omission. Yeah, I mean, not a great omission, but, like, example, I have.

[Matt Koplick]

Oh, here's a famous one I didn't include last time. Joel Gray for Chicago for the Chicago revival. And supposedly that came out of category confusion because Amos is a featured role. But the Weisslers petitioned Joel for lead.

[Rob W. Schneider]

He's not a lead.

[Matt Koplick]

He's not a lead. And they and they succeeded at getting him eligible for lead, and it ended up burning them in that respect. If he had been put in featured.

[Rob W. Schneider]

If he'd been eligible, who won for featured that year? Chuck Cooper.

[Matt Koplick]

Chuck Cooper for the Life. But if he had been eligible for.

[Rob W. Schneider]

Featured, you think he would have won?

[Matt Koplick]

I think he could have. It was a huge return in a massive, massive hit.

[Rob W. Schneider]

You think he would have been. He would have went over Chuck Cooper.

[Matt Koplick]

I think he would have been nominated, first of all. And, yeah, I think he could have won. Chuck Cooper had a very fascinating role in the Life. It was. It was essentially a princess track that he was very powerful in.

[Rob W. Schneider]

Yeah. Yeah.

[Matt Koplick]

But it was a very. The Life was clearly a show that nominators liked and voters didn't, because that was. That was one of those cases like Wild Party, like Mean Girls, like Slave Play or Scottsboro Boys, where the nominators went all in and voters were like, I.

[Rob W. Schneider]

Not for us.

[Matt Koplick]

Yeah. Didn't like this like you did.

[Rob W. Schneider]

Okay, okay. I. I don't. I. That's interesting. I didn't know that that was the issue that he was looked at as a lead I could be rewriting.

[Matt Koplick]

I know I could be rewriting history here, but I am 95% positive because it was a very major story that he didn't get nominated, and it was also a major story that he was put in lead.

[Rob W. Schneider]

To me, the biggest lead, best actor in a musical lead omission to me, is still John McMartin in Follies.

[Matt Koplick]

Absolutely.

[Rob W. Schneider]

How he did not get nominated for this performance, which everyone says was one of the most brilliant things they ever saw in their life. And how Prince even thanked him in his Tony Awards speech and made a point to be like, hey, you should have nominated this guy, is beyond me because I think that was. That's a big omission.

[Matt Koplick]

I think Ben is such a hard role to get behind. We only nominated Ben in the last revival for the first time.

[Rob W. Schneider]

Is that Ron Raines.

[Matt Koplick]

Yeah. Who I did not enjoy, but that was the third Broadway production of Follies. We finally nominated Ben, and sometimes it's just really difficult to. To nominate the dick, and especially when the person's playing the dick so well. And I think John McMartin had the audacity to originate a role in a very divisive Sondheim musical and play the most divisive character of the four leads and not let him off the hook. Truly play.

[Rob W. Schneider]

Yeah, I know. I think. I think he should have received some sort of.

[Matt Koplick]

He absolutely should have.

[Rob W. Schneider]

I'm saying pat on the back for that.

[Matt Koplick]

It's not so much that I understand why people wouldn't nominated him, so much as I can understand how that happened.

[Rob W. Schneider]

Sure, sure. I also am surprised John Rubenstein didn't get a nomination for Pippen.

[Matt Koplick]

Oh, I can understand that.

[Rob W. Schneider]

Really? How come?

[Matt Koplick]

Because Pippen never gets their. Their roses in Pippin. Ever? No. No one ever walks away thinking about Pippin. They think about the leading player and they think about Bertha.

[Rob W. Schneider]

No, of course. But don't you think that his work is. Is complex and it's a very hard role?

[Matt Koplick]

So that year, that was the year of Ben Vereen for Pippen, who won one, Robert Morris for Sugar, who my father claims to this day should have won. And then I know it was Len Cary for Night Music, and then who was the fourth? Was it. It wasn't Barry Bostwick for Greece. It wasn't nobody from Jesus Christ Superstar.

[Rob W. Schneider]

I don't know. Barry Bostwick actually sounds kind of correct.

[Matt Koplick]

Bostwick won for Robert Bridegroom later. But I don't know if he was nominated for Greece. Maybe he was nominated for Greece. Let me look at. It was twice. Brock Peters for Lost in the Stars.

[Rob W. Schneider]

Oh, okay.

[Matt Koplick]

Which I'm assuming Revival. Revival of Lost in the Stars.

[Rob W. Schneider]

Yeah.

[Matt Koplick]

Do I think we could have put Rubenstein in there?

[Rob W. Schneider]

Yeah. Who are the people again?

[Matt Koplick]

So we have our winner. Ben Vereen for Pippin was never not gonna win. Len Cariou for Night Music, Robert Morse for Sugar, Brock Peters for Lost in the Stars.

[Rob W. Schneider]

Well, maybe. Oh, you could have thrown John Rubenstein.

[Matt Koplick]

In instead of Brock Peters because they. I don't think they were doing five.

[Rob W. Schneider]

Oh, then. No, then I think you're right. I get it now. I get it.

[Matt Koplick]

The other one. So speaking of Sondheim omissions And this year, 1973 in particular, I don't know if I've mentioned this on the podcast. I'm pretty sure I told you I used to take voice lessons from Victoria Mallory, the original Eckerman in A Little Night Music. This was for about a year and a half while I was in college. It was. I had had my previous voice teacher, the one who groomed me, and then he. Yeah, my voice teacher who groomed me in high school. He's dead now. It's fine. I think he died from COVID in the first year of COVID lockdown. But he worked at a studio that Vicky also worked at, and he had to go off to teach at Syracuse. And he said, oh, like, would do you want to work With Victoria Clark. Victoria Clark. Victoria Mallory. And I was like 1000%. And then I ended up staying with her because I realized while being with her, I was like, oh, I like being with you because you don't sexualize me. And I didn't realize that that was making me uncomfortable until I got out of the situation. But also, Victoria Mallory was just a wonderful human being. Point is, we would in our lessons because, you know, you vocalize, then you talk, and then you vocalize, then you talk. And every time we would talk, I would ask for Sondheim tea, or I would ask her to say lines from Night Music and would not yell at her. But I'd be like, vicki, say it like you did in the cast recording. She goes, Matt, that was 50 years ago. I'm like, well, let me tell you how you said it.

[Rob W. Schneider]

Oh, that's funny. That's cute.

[Matt Koplick]

So first of all, there's the story of how she got the job, which is an amazing story, but we don't have have the time for that today because we've already gone off so much today. But she played Anne, which is inarguably the hardest role in A Little Night Music because you have to be so obviously the wrong choice for Frederick. So when he goes off with Desiree, we don't feel bad, but also we have to understand why Frederick married her, because we can't. We don't want to hate Frederick for marrying this 18 year old nothing. And she nailed it and, and sang it beautifully and all this stuff. And she didn't get nominated for playing Anne Eggerman, but the show, first of all, the best reviewed Sondheim show of his career to that point, in terms of a score that he wrote, was an actual financial success. They get a million Tony nominations. And Vicky shows up to the theater that day of the nominations and Sondheim's chain smoking in her dressing room all pissed off. And she's like, steve, what's going on? And he goes, he's like, those fucking idiots. Those goddamn idiots. She goes, he goes, they don't understand how hard your role is. And that if you weren't doing your job well, this show would work. He's like, and they just don't get it. You should have been nominated. What the fuck is wrong with them? And she's like, but, Steve, you got nominated. He's like, yeah, whatever. And, like, walks out of the dressing room. And then she goes, oh, wasn't that sweet?

[Rob W. Schneider]

Now, I've heard that. I've heard that story. That's a good One.

[Matt Koplick]

Sorry to repeat myself. I don't mean to be like some of our other contemporaries.

[Rob W. Schneider]

No, no, no, no, no. My friend Kevin David Thomas was very good friends with her and also told me, I think, either the same story or a similar story.

[Matt Koplick]

Also the story of how she probably got the job. Because that's a famous one.

[Rob W. Schneider]

Yes. As well. Yeah. She.

[Matt Koplick]

She was in this long. The long story being told short is she was in the ensemble of Follies under studying both young Phyllis and young Sally. And about like a year into the run, which was incidentally, like three months before they closed, they. She got to the theater and they say, oh, tomorrow, go to Hell's office. He wants to see you. She goes into his office. The next day, he has a script on the table, and he's like, open to page five.

[Rob W. Schneider]

Did you just say, I'm not going to tell this story because we don't have time to get launched into the.

[Matt Koplick]

Story, but I have to go shorter version of it. And he goes, vicki, read page five. And she goes, oh, okay. Oh, Frederick. What? He goes, okay, thank you so much. She goes, I can do it differently because. No, you got the job. She goes, what job? Because the job you just auditioned for. She goes, that was an audition. He goes, yeah, and you got it. That's all she did.

[Rob W. Schneider]

That's so cool.

[Matt Koplick]

Anyway.

[Rob W. Schneider]

That's really cool.

[Matt Koplick]

Give me your next omission, baby.

[Rob W. Schneider]

Oh, you know what? I have no problem with it because I really don't like this show, but it did not get Best musical. I'm just surprised by it. Camelot.

[Matt Koplick]

Yeah. Your beloved Do Re Mi got in there instead.

[Rob W. Schneider]

Listen, that was this Bye Bye Birdie, Do Re Mi and Irma La Deuce. Somehow all. They only had three. They were like, fuck off, Camelot.

[Matt Koplick]

Irma took a latuse on Camelot.

[Rob W. Schneider]

Took a La Deuce on Camelot. Then I'm gonna be honest with you. I thought I knew a lot about musical theater history. And then on the opening night when our producer gives his opening speech for Do Re Mi and he's like, goes, yeah, you know. You know, this is. This beat out Camelot. I was like, what? What's new at this zoo? Got more attention than if ever I would leave you.

[Matt Koplick]

Yeah, well, Camelot was. Camelot was not well reviewed. It became a hit because of Sullivan. Yeah.

[Rob W. Schneider]

Ed Sullivan. I'm gonna. Oh, you know what? This is a snub. Well. Oh, God, this is complicated.

[Matt Koplick]

I also want to say Camelot. Robert Goulet, omissioned I'm right here. You're right here.

[Rob W. Schneider]

What's the problem? He.

[Matt Koplick]

So we have Dick Van Dyke for Bye Bye Birdie, Dick Gauthier for Bye Bye Birdie playing Conrad Birdie. Oh, also no fucking Paul Lynn for Bye Bye Birdie.

[Rob W. Schneider]

I. I once had a Nocturnalo mission. Is that the same thing?

[Matt Koplick]

Rob W. Schneider's.

[Rob W. Schneider]

If ever I would.

[Matt Koplick]

Leave you, it would be right now, because I don't want to be married.

[Rob W. Schneider]

To you right now. Sorry, Carol, gotta go.

[Matt Koplick]

Get the fuck out. I've got no time for you.

[Rob W. Schneider]

I'm gonna tell you a story. Danny Thomas could have been in one of those musicals because he loved watching a girl taking her my La Deuce. You know, the Danny Thomas Glass coffee table story. I'll tell you right now. Make sure little Marlon Thomas isn't listening. No one to hear this about her daddy.

[Matt Koplick]

This cannot be a Christy Carlson Romano podcast where we just talk over each other.

[Rob W. Schneider]

A lot of Windex in that home. Okay, here's my. My omission.

[Matt Koplick]

Okay?

[Rob W. Schneider]

I'm surprised that Chip Zine did not get one for into the Woods.

[Matt Koplick]

So was Ben Rimmelauer at the time.

[Rob W. Schneider]

And really. And I'm still. I, I. There's some stuff that's the Harmony. He didn't get one for Harmony.

[Matt Koplick]

So re listening to this episode. A year ago, I had seen Harmony at the Yiddish theater a while prior to. And they had announced that it was transferring. So I saw Harmony at theater in, like, April of 2022. And then they announced Harmony was coming to Broadway in, like, May of 2023. So that's when Ben and I recorded the episode. And I was like, he's gonna get nominated for Harmony. It's fine. And I re saw the show. I was like, I don't think I would nominate Chip.

[Rob W. Schneider]

Oh, wow.

[Matt Koplick]

I love Chip. There's. He is incapable of. Of being false on stage. He is so honest and. And earnest. And when the material doesn't justify that kind of passion, it can come off a bit as camp. And so like, so his 11 o' clock number of the. You could have killed Hitler. Why must I be the one to tell the story? I'm like, well, because you were the one that lived to 95. The rest of them lived in 91. That's why. Which is like, just like such a check that that show can't cash. They're like, well, what happened to the rest of them? It's like, well, they all live to old age. And then he lived to the oldest age. But so re seeing the show on Broadway. I was like, Oh, I don't. I take that back. But into the woods is an interesting one. But you also got to ask yourself, who could he have taken over from? Because it was Michael Crawford for Phantom.

[Rob W. Schneider]

That's a lot.

[Matt Koplick]

Scott Bakula for romance. Romance. That's what Ben thinks, too. But then there's also Howard McGillan for Anything Goes, and. And David Carroll for Chess.

[Rob W. Schneider]

Honestly, except for Michael Crawford. If any one of those three guys was taken away, I wouldn't lose sleep over it.

[Matt Koplick]

David Carroll died of aids. Are you saying that you think he deserved it?

[Rob W. Schneider]

I'm saying that his performance, while I'm sure amazing, does pro. Probably does not have the same depth as Chips performance in. I'm getting canceled, aren't I?

[Matt Koplick]

No, I'm getting canceled. I've already been canceled. That's fine. No, I hear you. I wouldn't. I think Chip could have replaced any of those three guys as well.

[Rob W. Schneider]

What I really appreciate about Chip as a performer and especially. And I'll tell you stories off Mike, but one of the things.

[Matt Koplick]

Oh, I've already heard some stories about his antics with certain mean people above. Above the line at Harmony.

[Rob W. Schneider]

Oh, oh, oh, wait. I'm wondering if we heard the same story.

[Matt Koplick]

Is it the one from Tech?

[Rob W. Schneider]

Yeah.

[Matt Koplick]

Yeah.

[Rob W. Schneider]

Okay, so.

[Matt Koplick]

Which it did happen.

[Rob W. Schneider]

I'll tell you another story off Mic. About what? Some of the nominator. But we'll go into that.

[Matt Koplick]

We'll go into that.

[Rob W. Schneider]

But that's a private discussion because I still like to work with some of these people, and he's a good man. Chip.

[Matt Koplick]

Listen. We all would listen.

[Rob W. Schneider]

You know what? I'm gonna be honest with you. One of the things that I really respect about Chip, that I think a lot of people of a new generation don't do is I've heard it. He's. He's directed it at me a few times, is, you don't know what you're doing, or this is. This is not good.

[Matt Koplick]

Yeah.

[Rob W. Schneider]

And I think today a lot of young people are taught, like, hey, you're not supposed to do that. Like, you're. Oh, no, don't talk back to the director. Don't, like, question the choreographer. And I think he does not come from that school.

[Matt Koplick]

No.

[Rob W. Schneider]

And I don't think there's anything wrong with that. I think it's just a different way of working.

[Matt Koplick]

I love it myself. I still.

[Rob W. Schneider]

Well, we've talked about this, I think, a few times, which is, like, there's this acceptance of mediocrity and this idea of. Well, you know, I don't know, in school, the students are now taught and they become, obviously, the new actors. Don't talk back. Don't do this. Be a good soldier. Make it work. And that's not the school. Excuse me. That a lot of these other people, these older people come from, and they're. Excuse me. They're the ones that create the more exciting work. So. But going back to into the woods, his performance as the Baker is wonderful. It's funny, it's serious. He sings, he's charming. I'm gonna be honest with you, and, please, I know Ben Rimmelauer will probably kill me for this. I'm not the biggest into the woods fan.

[Matt Koplick]

Neither is he.

[Rob W. Schneider]

Is he really?

[Matt Koplick]

He's mentioned that a lot on the podcast. Like, it's very weird that he chose this Sondheim show to go so hard into because it's not his favorite Sondheim, but he said it's because it's the one that has the biggest legacy across the country.

[Rob W. Schneider]

I think I'm gonna. This is my feeling on the show, and people are more than welcome to disagree. I feel because the show was filmed and the show was then the one thing that so many people watched because There was no YouTube, there was no access to live performance, in a lot of people's minds, we've blown it up to be better than it actually is. It actually, in my opinion, is actually not as great as everybody says it is. But I think one of the things that made it so successful the first time out was how brilliantly cast it was. And I think Chip Zine as the Baker brings a lot of stuff to that role which is not on that page.

[Matt Koplick]

Sure.

[Rob W. Schneider]

Sorry. That's just me.

[Matt Koplick]

I feel that way about.

[Rob W. Schneider]

About apologies.

[Matt Koplick]

I feel that way about everyone on the Castle. I love that show. It is a personal favorite of mine. For all the things that you've said, it's all the nostalgia.

[Rob W. Schneider]

Yes. Yes.

[Matt Koplick]

I do. I do think it is a. An objectively good musical. I don't think it's as great as Sweeney or Follies or Night Music, but it is, I think, a strong musical in its own right. It is a trick. It's always been a tricky show because that original cast is so perfect and that filming was done when they had all had done that show so much. It was in there.

[Rob W. Schneider]

Oh, it was perfect.

[Matt Koplick]

It was in their phones. They had audiences that knew the show and loved the show. And so it was. It was just very receptive time. What I also appreciate about Chips Baker is that he isn't afraid to play just how pathetic that character is for so long. Like, it's. I hate to use the word brave, but it's a really brave choice to be so nebbishy and unlikable for so long that you risk turning the audience off from you forever. Until the last possible moment, you can be that bit of a mess.

[Rob W. Schneider]

It's a really beautiful performance. Yes. So for the other actors, no offense, I mean, Michael Crawford. Yes. I think has to stay there. And as much as I love Howard McGillan and as much as I love David James Carroll, I feel like Chip deserves a place alongside them, if not replacing one of them.

[Matt Koplick]

Well, I think now's a perfect time for our last commercial break because of the sound cue that we have. Let's take that break right now.

[Rob W. Schneider]

Billy, I beg to differ with you.

[Matt Koplick]

How do you mean? You're the top. Yeah. You're an arrow collar.

[Rob W. Schneider]

You're the top. You're a Coolidge Dollar.

[Matt Koplick]

And we're back. Thank you so much, Patti LuPone, for differing with Rob Schneider about Howard McGillan's Billy.

[Rob W. Schneider]

All right, so I'm going to give you a couple of other ones, if that's okay, then I'm going to turn it back to you, because these are the ones that I think are going to be French. I'm going to start. Do I want to start with the friendship breakers first, or do I want to start with ones we'll probably agree on first?

[Matt Koplick]

Start with the breakers, break my heart, and then try to get me back.

[Rob W. Schneider]

Okay. I. I'm still surprised that George Salazar and Bonnie Milligan did not get nominations. Him for Be more Chill her for Head over Heels.

[Matt Koplick]

Mm.

[Rob W. Schneider]

I literally see you packing your bags. Your favorite, Aaron Tveit for Next to Normal, I think was a brilliant, wonderful performance that should have been nominated. These we might agree on. So I think at this point, we're done with the friendship breaker, if that's okay. Those, to me, were the ones where I was like, oh, come on.

[Matt Koplick]

Sure.

[Rob W. Schneider]

Okay, great. Our wonderful friend Janine lamanna. I have. She should have been nominated.

[Matt Koplick]

I forgot to have her in the last episode.

[Rob W. Schneider]

Amy Spangler for Kiss Me Kate revival, which I thought she was brilliant in.

[Matt Koplick]

I had that last year.

[Rob W. Schneider]

BB Neuwirth in the Damn Yankees revival, which I also thought she was brilliant in. And then my last two were ones where I was. I literally had to check, like, nine different places to be like, are you sure these people did not get nominated? Because they shocked me so much.

[Matt Koplick]

Barbara Cook for Candide.

[Rob W. Schneider]

Oh. For she Loves Me.

[Matt Koplick]

Oh, I had her for Candide and she loves me.

[Rob W. Schneider]

Yeah, okay. I just had her for she loves me. And of course, the biggest snub of all, Cheetah Rivera. Cheetah Rivera for West side Story from West side Story.

[Matt Koplick]

I had her last year.

[Rob W. Schneider]

There's one more snub on top of Cheetah that I think is even bigger, which is Matthew Koplik for Daddy issues at Theater at St. Clement's and I don't think the American theater has ever recovered since France. Matt was in a brilliant. Why am I telling you this? You know this. This is like me trying to tell you what Romeo and Juliet is. Everybody knows what this is. Matthew, for whatever reason, did not get a best actor nomination for his brilliant, charmless performance. Isn't that what the critics said?

[Matt Koplick]

Now?

[Rob W. Schneider]

He said. He said. What do you say about you? You were. You were good. You were. You were so boring. It worked. Is that what he said? Something like that, Matt. Matthew Copley said.

[Matt Koplick]

He said my averageness worked.

[Rob W. Schneider]

Your averageness worked. Matthew Kopl. Averageness. That's brave, Matt. You want to talk about Chip being brave? Uh, you going on and being like, I'm going to be average from start to finish. And you might all remember Matt's pivotal lines of Come here, kitty. Meow, meow. Whatever the line was for the cat food commercial.

[Matt Koplick]

Here, kitty, kitty.

[Rob W. Schneider]

That's a good kitty.

[Matt Koplick]

That's a good pussy. Meow, meow. Something like that. Something.

[Rob W. Schneider]

It's the only time Matt Koblick's ever said the line, that's a good pussy before, I think. And for that stretching himself, I think he deserves some credit.

[Matt Koplick]

It. I pretty sure I said exactly that phrase to Gunkle of the pod Adam Ellsbury, when we were casting women for the Encore's Wild Party. But what?

[Rob W. Schneider]

The new one coming up, the Lachusa one.

[Matt Koplick]

That's happening. Yeah.

[Rob W. Schneider]

Are you excited for this?

[Matt Koplick]

Sure. I. I love that Wild Party. It has its problems, but I love it. And they got a really fun director. We'll just see. It's encores.

[Rob W. Schneider]

You know, I'm excited.

[Matt Koplick]

There's. It's encores. There's no way they're going to be able to do any of those musicals to the depth that I would like because the rehearsal process just doesn't allow for that. But, I mean, I'm. I'm curious and I'm excited. I'm excited and scared. As previous omission Daniel Fridland said. Oh, yeah, she was the woods. I had her as well. Bebe and Damn Yankees is One where I didn't get to see her, but I did not. I don't care for her on that cast recording. And even she has said in Nothing Like a Dame that she's felt a little at sea with that show. And while I would normally maybe fight with you, fight for you on that one. Because I think of that of the four women nominated that year, it was Donna Murphy for Passion, Susan Egan for Beauty and the Beast, Kunzy for she Loves Me, and De Hodie for Best Little Whorehouse Goes Public. We all know that Hody and Whorehouse is the one to take out, but for me, it's not for BB New Earth. It is for my beloved Sally Murphy and Carousel.

[Rob W. Schneider]

Oh, shit. Okay, okay.

[Matt Koplick]

That was which her and Michael Hayden were like genuine snubs because they should have been. Everyone else they should have been. And they like chose a closed show with the hoty over Sally.

[Rob W. Schneider]

And why?

[Matt Koplick]

Because the.

[Rob W. Schneider]

The.

[Matt Koplick]

The news around that revival was that the singing overall was lackluster, which I disagree with. Yes, Michael Hayden never sounded like John Rate, but you, from the way that people wrote about his singing in that show, you would have thought that Helen Keller herself was singing Billy Bigelow. And it's not. He sounds fine. He sounds good. What he sounds like is an Irish tenor singing a baritone role. So it maybe doesn't totally fit musically, but it doesn't. It's not unpleasant. And it fits his concept of the role. And his concept of the role is what makes that revival work. Sally Murphy sounds as good as any other Julie Jordan that's ever Julie Jordan, and she's the best actress of any of them. So, like, what the fuck were they talking about? I don't know. Plus you have a show where Eddie Corbich is singing his face off as Mr. Snowman, Shirley Verrett, Audra Ann MacDonald, an ensemble that has Taye Diggs, Brian Darcy James and Lavette George like. And Natasha Diaz like. And Lauren Ward, like. No, the singing in that production was fantastic. People are fucking dumb any whoso. Yes, I had Janine Lamana for Seussical in there as well. She tells a great story about the.

[Rob W. Schneider]

Drama desk with Mary Testa.

[Matt Koplick]

With Mary Testa. Yeah, about the drama desks with Mary Testa because then the Tony nominations had come out already, but they had to do it like nominee lunches.

[Rob W. Schneider]

And it's a good story about Mary Testa, by the way.

[Matt Koplick]

Yeah, no, it's Mary Tested being a baller. I also have Jeff McCarthy for urinetown. Don't know how that didn't happen as Officer Lock Stock, I think. I don't know if he was eligible for featured or lead. I don't know which one, but whichever one he was eligible for, he should have been in there.

[Rob W. Schneider]

Who would he have been up against?

[Matt Koplick]

If he was up, it was. If it was lead, he would have been up against John Cullum for urinetown, John McMartin for Into the Woods. Who else?

[Rob W. Schneider]

Those are just John McMartin for Into.

[Matt Koplick]

The woods as the narrator, Mysterious Man. Yeah, that was one where.

[Rob W. Schneider]

I saw it in LA and he kept forgetting his lines.

[Matt Koplick]

He remembered them when I saw it. I just remember him throwing the flowers on the. On the ground. But as far as I know, he didn't forget his lines when I saw it. Who else was it? It was John column, John McMartin, Gavin Creel for Thoroughly Modern Millie, John Lithgow for Sweet Smell of Success, and Patrick Wilson for Oklahoma, who was before John Lithgow.

[Rob W. Schneider]

John who?

[Matt Koplick]

Gavin Creel for Thoroughly Modern Millie. So, I mean, honestly, for me, it's either John McMartin or Patrick Wilson. John McMartin, I think, is an easy one to take out, but if we want to honor the legend, then we take out Patrick Wilson. I think this is so media.

[Rob W. Schneider]

I know. I think Officer Lockstock is featured.

[Matt Koplick]

I'm saying if that's. If we're going for lead. But if Officer Lockstock is featured.

[Rob W. Schneider]

He's a featured, then.

[Matt Koplick]

Well, I don't know what he was.

[Rob W. Schneider]

Eligible for because he's eligible for feature.

[Matt Koplick]

Sometimes crazy shit happens, Rob.

[Rob W. Schneider]

Like, they're wrong.

[Matt Koplick]

Like you see me in Daddy Issues and we meet 10,000 years later, featured actor of a musical, Schuler Hensley for Oklahoma. That he was never not winning. Greg Edelman for Into the Woods, Brian Darcy James for Sweet Smell Success, Mark Kudish for Millie, and then Norbert. Leo Butts for Thou Shalt Not. That's actually a really fantastic category. I probably. I would. Yeah, I was gonna say knock out Greg for Woods and put Love Greg, but I would knock him out for that and put in Jeff McCarthy. I just don't know how McCarthy is so good in that show.

[Rob W. Schneider]

That into the woods revival.

[Matt Koplick]

I loved it when I was 12. When I was 12. When I was twelve. Rob job. But then I grew up and now I have opinions about it.

[Rob W. Schneider]

Wait, you saw it when you were 12?

[Matt Koplick]

Sure did. I was actually. Oh, here's a fun story.

[Rob W. Schneider]

I'm pretty sure I was in college when I saw it.

[Matt Koplick]

Well, yes. You're famously 72. I. I think I've talked about this on the podcast. My parents would not let me pursue acting professionally as a kid. I could do all the JCC productions to my Heart's Desire. I could even do like a handful of regional shows here and there if it was, if it wasn't a huge time commitment. But I couldn't. I wasn't allowed to do Broadway. They let me do one off off Broadway musical in fourth grade, that was it.

[Rob W. Schneider]

In sixth grade, Daddy Issues Junior from mti.

[Matt Koplick]

That was the one. Sixth grade. I had just done the first production of Les Miserables High School Edition at the Helen Hayes Theater in Nyack, which also starred, by the way, Skylar Astin, now famous Skylar Astin and Adam Chandler. Brat was our thenardier. But our director, Tim McDonald, he works with MTI. I had done Godspell with him the year before, so he had gotten to know me and like me. And I was 11 at the time. And they were casting the into the woods revival. And that revival was very famous for basically James Lapine not knowing what he wanted with anyone in that cast, like basically throwing all the spaghetti at the wall. So like the Witch, it was an addition of Vanessa Williams, it was Alice Ripley, it was Emily Skinner, it was Billy Porter, it was Daphne Ruben Vega, it was everyone you could think of. And they even reached out to Patti Lupon, I found it out.

[Rob W. Schneider]

So for Jack, and it came down to Vanessa and Billy Porter. Yeah, that's how different it was. Yeah.

[Matt Koplick]

And then for Jack, what I can gather is that they were looking, they didn't know if they wanted actual young kids or they wanted to go with what they did originally and have like a 17, 20 year old play. Jack and Tim, our director for Les Mis, apparently vouched for me to James and Sondheim and then even sent them audio of me singing. And they told Tim to contact my parents and said, bring him in, we want to work with him and see if there's anything there. And my parents said no, Matthew's already been cast in a sixth grade musical and he made a commitment. And my.

[Rob W. Schneider]

I, I think that's actually great.

[Matt Koplick]

Well, you know, in some respects I still am pissed about it. In other respects, I don't, I don't have ever wanted to be a subject on the Quiet on set documentary. So I'm glad that I didn't get that far into it, but I was like, I couldn't have. But I could have been. I never would have gotten it.

[Rob W. Schneider]

They taught you about Commitments and keeping your word. I think that's more important.

[Matt Koplick]

And Yet I've never kept my word to this day. And I can't be committed to. I can only get committed into a ward. But. But. So, alas. But, yeah, that Woods. I was very into it at the time. I saw it. And then, honestly, within like a year or two, I was so over it and went on. I think it wasn't what I wanted it to be.

[Rob W. Schneider]

I think it was one of the first times I. I vividly remember, like, being let down by expectations, because all I remember hearing about that production before Open. I think it opened in la. I think that's where it was trying out. And I was living there at the time. And the thing was, oh, this is. This is a whole new look at it. It's a new reexamination of it. They're reinventing it. That's all. We kept hearing about it. And then you got there and you were like, it's just a different set. And the three little pigs walked by for a minute.

[Matt Koplick]

They made some changes, and that was it. They made changes to the text, but.

[Rob W. Schneider]

They were making it sound like this was a movie, a major upheaval.

[Matt Koplick]

They also made it all the reviews from LA because the.1 of the big things about this into the woods was like, everyone going, you can't believe that they're doing into the woods again so soon. And then all the reviews from LA were like, yeah, but my God, does it slap?

[Rob W. Schneider]

It does not.

[Matt Koplick]

It does not. And. And they. They were just like, oh, my God. You know, time is caught up with into the Woods. And it opened and, like, it got solid reviews, it won revival, but it closed after six months. And. And the legacy of that revival is not great. I think the only thing that people remember fondly is Benanti as Cinderella, and she nearly killed herself doing that show. I also have. Sorry, I have other omissions. I have Lillia's White for how to Succeed in Business without really.

[Rob W. Schneider]

Oh, she didn't get one.

[Matt Koplick]

She did not. People thought she won the Tony for that and she wasn't even nominated Speak. That same year. We also have Elaine Stritch not nominated for Showboat.

[Rob W. Schneider]

Oh, yes.

[Matt Koplick]

There's that famous moment on the Tonys where she's coming out to present an award and they give her over the intercom this, like, really lengthy address and she goes, well, I guess that's better than a nomination. And then my final one I have.

[Rob W. Schneider]

Here is, was she nominated for Delicate Balance or did she know okay, and.

[Matt Koplick]

She was slated to win? And then she. I think she lost to did she lose to so Caldwell for Masterclass? My last one is VN Cox for Caroline or Chase.

[Rob W. Schneider]

Interesting. Yeah, interesting. That's a good choice. That's a really good choice.

[Matt Koplick]

Caroline or Change I've talked about before. That musical blew my fucking mind.

[Rob W. Schneider]

That's a special one for you.

[Matt Koplick]

It's a. It's a big special one for me. And I say this all the time. I saw Carolina Change in May of 2004. I then saw Piazza in April of 2005. So within 12 months, I see those two shows and I became an insufferable. Know it all. Ever since I became an esoteric fucking.

[Rob W. Schneider]

I wouldn't say no at all.

[Matt Koplick]

He doesn't know at all, but he is insufferable.

[Rob W. Schneider]

Kidding. I'm kidding. It's a joke, man. It's a joke.

[Matt Koplick]

Yeah, but no. Vienne Cox is such a special performer, and every time I see her on stage, I'm reminded how special she is. And we don't do right by her enough. She also was in Smile, but was she really? Yeah. She played Sandra K. McAfee, though. Contestant who wins Going to Santa Rosa. You should do that for J2 Spotlight.

[Rob W. Schneider]

Can I tell you something? I've applied for the rights and we keep getting turned down because as I understand it, there's a very big, big person involved trying to rewrite it currently.

[Matt Koplick]

Interesting.

[Rob W. Schneider]

And I spoke to that person and I was like, oh, yes, because you're you. I don't think I'll be getting the rights to this anytime soon.

[Matt Koplick]

Theater person, movie person.

[Rob W. Schneider]

I think they do both worlds now is Orion Murphy. They started in the theater world and now they've made a pretty nice name for themselves in the movie world.

[Matt Koplick]

And they're a writer. Yes, primarily a writer. They don't. Do they act at all? Yes, they act, too. Okay, interesting. You'll have to tell me off Mic. Fantastic. I love. I. I have so many guesses who's who.

[Rob W. Schneider]

Give me your three guesses. I won't tell you. No, give me your three guesses and I'll tell you if one of them is correct.

[Matt Koplick]

Jeanine LaMotta.

[Rob W. Schneider]

And then who else?

[Matt Koplick]

I don't know.

[Rob W. Schneider]

Janine's working on it. I'll tell you off, Mike.

[Matt Koplick]

Yeah, tell me off Mic.

[Rob W. Schneider]

I.

[Matt Koplick]

So with Vianne Cox in Carolina Exchange. So she plays Rose Stopnik, which is a part that on paper, you just want to hate.

[Rob W. Schneider]

Oh.

[Matt Koplick]

The best friend of this kid's mom who just died. And she goes off and marries the husband. And first of all, Tesorian Kushner wrote a great role because she's not just. She's not the evil stepmom. She's trying so hard.

[Rob W. Schneider]

Oh, yeah. Yeah.

[Matt Koplick]

She's trying so hard to do the right thing. Part of. Of, like, the reason why she married this dude was because she felt that the kid needed a mom.

[Rob W. Schneider]

Yes.

[Matt Koplick]

And in her own weird way, it was her way of like, still being close to her best friend because she was, like, living the life there. But she's just so alone, and she's so desperate for connection.

[Rob W. Schneider]

And that's why we're friends, Matt, because that's me.

[Matt Koplick]

Yeah. Which of us is the Caroline and which of us is the Rose?

[Rob W. Schneider]

I just want to be the clarinet. Who's the guy that plays clarinet no matter what?

[Matt Koplick]

Stuart.

[Rob W. Schneider]

Every time he comes out on the stage, he's like, I got a clarinet.

[Matt Koplick]

I gotta play my clarinet. Stuart player clarinet. Ah, God, I love that show so much. I didn't like the last revival, but I love that show. You know who's good in the last revival was Tamika Lawrence, who I thought should have been nominated this year for Heart of Rock and Roll. Same with Billy Harrigan. Tai for Heart of Rock and Roll.

[Rob W. Schneider]

Heart of Rock and Roll Got no love and I. All I hear is how wonderful it is.

[Matt Koplick]

It's. What it is is that it's surprisingly good for how dumb it is.

[Rob W. Schneider]

That's what I keep. What's wrong with that?

[Matt Koplick]

There's nothing wrong with it, but I've had friends who went to the dress rehearsal and then the first two previews, and they're like, oh, my God, what a disaster. And then they did a whole bunch of cleaning up, whole bunch of tightening. I saw it, like, the day or two before they froze the show. I was like, I'm sorry. I thought this whole thing was so fun and. And knows what it is and. And does it?

[Rob W. Schneider]

Well, great.

[Matt Koplick]

Yeah. Because there's so many shows where people like, well, they know what kind of show they are. I'm like, but do they?

[Rob W. Schneider]

Yeah.

[Matt Koplick]

Do they? A couple of shows this year that. Whether they got nominated or not, whether they're making money or not, people like, well, they know what kind of show they are. I'm like, I don't think they do. Heart of Rock and Roll knows what show it is.

[Rob W. Schneider]

That's good. That's really good. I can't wait to see all this stuff.

[Matt Koplick]

Yeah, there's a. There's a lot for you to see, and you don't have a lot of time to do it because you're about to go off on the road.

[Rob W. Schneider]

I'm about to. Yeah. I'm about to do Fiddler in a couple of days at Northshore.

[Matt Koplick]

I know. I'm so glad you asked me to play Tevye.

[Rob W. Schneider]

Yeah. Because that's. That's. That's your track. That's your track.

[Matt Koplick]

You know what's terrible is that I have the heart of an ingenue in the body of a daddy.

[Rob W. Schneider]

You would be a girl. Okay. You okay. You'd be a great model.

[Matt Koplick]

I'd be a good model.

[Rob W. Schneider]

Model. The tailor.

[Matt Koplick]

Yeah. I used to be asked to sing all of Perchick stuff, and then I would.

[Rob W. Schneider]

Was.

[Matt Koplick]

I was deemed that I had chick. Well, I was told then that my voice was Perchic, but that my, like, body wasn't. Essentially.

[Rob W. Schneider]

Yeah. Perchick has this. This presence about him. That's.

[Matt Koplick]

It's.

[Rob W. Schneider]

Yeah, it needs a harder edge.

[Matt Koplick]

Yeah. Well, what they essentially were saying, like, we can buy you is straight. If you're muddle. We can't buy you a straight.

[Rob W. Schneider]

Oh, that. Oh, I would. I never even thought of that in a million years.

[Matt Koplick]

I don't think that's what everyone's saying, but sometimes you can read between the lines. But any. I've gone after Fiddler four or five different times, and every time I went in for Model, I would sing, and then they would have me come back and sing the Perchic stuff, and then they'd be like. And basically be like, well, that was a mistake. And then I wouldn't get either role.

[Rob W. Schneider]

You look like such. You'd be such a sweet model.

[Matt Koplick]

I think I'd make a great chava.

[Rob W. Schneider]

Little bird, little chava, little chavala.

[Matt Koplick]

That's a fun show. I would love to do it.

[Rob W. Schneider]

First time I ever saw Fiddler on the Roof was with Harvey Fiers and Andrea Martin.

[Matt Koplick]

And was there any scenery left?

[Rob W. Schneider]

No. And I. I was like, oh, this is fine. And then I don't know what the fuck. Because I. I had never seen Fiddler at that point, so I was so unfamiliar with it. And then he got to the point where he started to sing Little Bird, Little Chavala. And I just started crying like a baby.

[Matt Koplick]

What's a beautiful moment?

[Rob W. Schneider]

I don't know what happened. That whole show is just like, huh, huh. The whole set looked like it was from ikea. Yeah. It didn't look like Anatevka. It looked like these, like, birch trees. And I was like, are we in Sweden?

[Matt Koplick]

Well, well, the.

[Rob W. Schneider]

The.

[Matt Koplick]

The Bart Sher production looked like it was furnished by West Elm, I don't.

[Rob W. Schneider]

Want to talk about that one production.

[Matt Koplick]

Same with his camel toe.

[Rob W. Schneider]

I don't. What?

[Matt Koplick]

Camelon.

[Rob W. Schneider]

I thought you meant he had, like. Sounds like I never noticed that about him.

[Matt Koplick]

No, I don't think men can have camels. I think they have what they call, like, moosef.

[Rob W. Schneider]

Moose.

[Matt Koplick]

If moose.

[Rob W. Schneider]

See a lot of great moose out there, kids.

[Matt Koplick]

Yeah.

[Rob W. Schneider]

Hunting season.

[Matt Koplick]

You got a nice deer antler down there.

[Rob W. Schneider]

Got a deer antler down there, kid. There should be an antler. That means there's multiple.

[Matt Koplick]

That's what Goulet called it. It's so much. It's basically an antler.

[Rob W. Schneider]

What I got down there is more like an elephant tusk.

[Matt Koplick]

You want to water my elephant?

[Rob W. Schneider]

I didn't see that show. Water for Elephants.

[Matt Koplick]

Make some Illinois anytime.

[Rob W. Schneider]

In my day, when they would say water for elephants, that just meant Toady Fields was thirsty.

[Matt Koplick]

Raise some hell in my kitchen.

[Rob W. Schneider]

What? Robbie Roselle's gonna only laugh at that joke. The water. My water for elephants when Toady Fields is thirsty.

[Matt Koplick]

If Robbie Roselle makes it to the end of this episode, I will.

[Rob W. Schneider]

Robbie, if you make it to the end of this episode, send me a text and I'll send you a gift.

[Matt Koplick]

There we go. There we go. He tends to make it to the end. He tells me when he's about to embark on the episode, but he never tells me when he's finishing the episode.

[Rob W. Schneider]

I get that. I get that.

[Matt Koplick]

Yeah, no, I've had. I have a few. So actually, I need to make sure I wrap this up so I can do the reviews because somebody else wrote something in a review the other day.

[Rob W. Schneider]

Oh, yeah? What did they say? You said you were going to read something about the review.

[Matt Koplick]

Yeah, I got reviews. So, yeah, we'll just finish this up now. I made a claim to the listeners of this podcast because I did a, you know, Q and A a few weeks ago about responses to the Tony nominations. And of course, when I do that, I do it without checking it ahead of time. So it's all live as I'm reading it. And someone misunderstood the assignment, and they thought it was like a regular Q and A. And they're like, hey, when are you gonna post that video of you singing Life of the Party at that. At that cabaret. You did?

[Rob W. Schneider]

Yeah.

[Matt Koplick]

I said, okay, well, I made a goal for the listeners. And I said, hey, let's hit 200 ratings or reviews on Apple podcasts by the end of April, and if we hit it, then I'll totally post it. And we made it to, like, 194. And so I didn't post it because we didn't hit the. Hit the goal.

[Rob W. Schneider]

What was your goal? 195.

[Matt Koplick]

It was, it was, it was 194, 95, something like that. But we didn't hit it. No, I said 200 and we, we hit like 194, 195. And so I said, okay, this was May 1st that I released this episode. I said, okay, we are now currently at 198. If we get to 2:15 by the end of May, I will post it. I said, and you know, if we get to like the last week of May and we're like 208, if we hit 210, I'll still do it because ultimately I just trying to get reviews and ratings for the podcast because it helps the algorithm, it helps people discover it. And you know, it's like GrubHub. If you're looking at Chinese food restaurants to order from and you see they all have four and a half stars, you're gonna go with the one that has 810 ratings as opposed to one that is 210.

[Rob W. Schneider]

Correct.

[Matt Koplick]

And it's the same with podcasts. But so I said, okay, well, if we hit 215 by the end of month, we'll do it. We listeners, I gotta say, what is today's day? Today is the.

[Rob W. Schneider]

Today is the 16th of May.

[Matt Koplick]

We have hit 218 ratings. We have blown past the goal. Another 15 days to go. I would love to get more now, just, you know, hit like 2:30 or 2 if we can. But because this. We have a couple of reviews and I'm gonna read them now for all of you. And this also means I will post the video. Can I read one within the next couple? Yeah, sure, if you wanna. I'd love to actually know you can read. Read this first one.

[Rob W. Schneider]

Okay, give me some.

[Matt Koplick]

And we're gonna, I'm just. We're gonna go back to. Back to back. So the moment you finish, give it back to me and I'll read the rest of them. So I'm gonna say we're gonna cue the light of the Piazza Overture music now.

[Rob W. Schneider]

Life of the podcast. 5 out of 5 stars. Matt K can be a slightly snarky NYC know it all with some of his guests, but he's an incredibly knowledgeable and passionate podcast host. If you're a Broadway fan, I suggest giving Broadway Breakdown a listen. I love Matt's regular episodes that dissect individual musicals in a various miniseries. The Tony season episodes are also fun but can be very, very long. Love you, Matt.

[Matt Koplick]

Thank you. This was released on Monday, so it's definitely after my four hour episode of Breaking the Broadway Seasons. So I get it. We're gonna continue. All right. The next one. Five stars. The best podcast about Broadway one can ask for Broadway Breakdown, written by the drowsy K, which I that's funny. After listening to Matt's four hour plus magnum opus of theatrical list making, it seems only future fair to leave a review to applaud his continuing efforts. As far as I can tell, no one else out there in the podcast arena is providing the intelligence, wit, taste and tact that Matt so effortlessly brings to his critical takes on the New York theater scene, including Rob W. Schneider on Broadway Bound. Wherever you can find your Broadway podcast.

[Rob W. Schneider]

I fucking hate you.

[Matt Koplick]

At a time when online quote unquote discourse is primarily being led by those more interested in toxic positivity than true critical engagement, Matt provides space for discerning empathy. A host host with love for his industry while striving for it to reach for something greater. Like Chip Zion. May he continue sharing his wisdom and good takes with us all for many years to come. Signed a fellow alum of the manor. Look at you.

[Rob W. Schneider]

Oh, that's really sweet.

[Matt Koplick]

I also found this one online on a different site because Apple podcasts won't show me the ones that are written from outside of the United States. So this one's from Brazil. It's a long one. Read it. Here we go.

[Rob W. Schneider]

From Brazil.

[Matt Koplick]

From Brazil.

[Rob W. Schneider]

An excellent insight into the American theater world out of all podcasts about musical theater that are released on a weekly basis. Very specific. This is good. This is the one with the best streak of insightful plus funny episodes. I agree. I'm from Brazil, so sometimes I do have to use Google to understand a couple of obscure references to the theater world the host makes, but most of the time I'm either laughing on the bus to work or learning something new while tapping away on the computer. I've only started going to the local theater more frequently in the past two years after getting myself in a more stable financial situation and got over some mild social anxiety. Whoever this is, I understand and more. And God bless you and more power to you for doing this same I.

[Matt Koplick]

Was gonna say I overstand. Congrats, babe.

[Rob W. Schneider]

Yeah, I'm on my I'm on my 30s and I feel like I have so, so much to learn about this area and it feels very exciting. I eagerly await every episode on every week to learn more about this new world. Thank you Mac, keep doing a great job. I think this is really marvelous. And whoever this individual is. Oh. Cause you can't see their pity. Pitt Pit is there. That's their name. Good for you for going back out there and seeing theater. It's not easy financially. It's not easy. Being around crowds is not easy. So the fact that you're going out there and doing it. God bless you. You.

[Matt Koplick]

Seriously, this is our last. Oh, no. Fuck. We got two more. Okay, five stars from insert funny nickname here. Good for you. Fun and informative. Least famous Broadway podcaster, surely not for long. Incredibly knowledgeable, but humble and self effacing. Matt is your theater obsessed best friend who can gab with you for hours over cocktails about the latest production to hit the Great White Way and our very, very last one. Five stars from Blake bk. Proudly uncultured. That's the title of the.

[Rob W. Schneider]

How come? Let me read the bad ones.

[Matt Koplick]

They're all wonderful. How dare you?

[Rob W. Schneider]

You know, you know what I mean? Like, you don't get any bad ones. What you're saying?

[Matt Koplick]

Oh, sure, that's great. I got a three star one a few weeks ago that I read I.

[Rob W. Schneider]

On my Broadway band one. I got a four out of five star and they knocked off a star because the audio mixing is off. So if somebody can teach me how to audio mix, I would really appreciate that. I don't disagree with them. I just need to figure out, you.

[Matt Koplick]

Know, who can't teach you that? Ben Rimmelauer. Oh, God, we've talked about it.

[Rob W. Schneider]

This is audio bad.

[Matt Koplick]

Yeah, well, because it's like it's interviewing with people who, unlike Zoom, who don't have.

[Rob W. Schneider]

Oh, yeah, they're all 100. So they don't know how to.

[Matt Koplick]

Yeah, so they're. So they all sound like this.

[Rob W. Schneider]

Proudly uncultured 5 out of 5 stars. I had to download the Apple podcast app for the first time since 2018 to sing. My presence for Nuance was capitalized. Matt is extremely knowledgeable and passionate about theater, so even when I disagree with him, I know he backs it up. Most of the time, though, it feels like he's voicing my own thoughts. Broadway Breakdown is basically the neurotically obsessed theater geek friend I need. That's wonderful.

[Matt Koplick]

Congratulations. Who would dare disagree with me? I've got perfect taste.

[Rob W. Schneider]

Okay, tell me again about Sally Murphy and Carousel.

[Matt Koplick]

Who?

[Rob W. Schneider]

Sally Murphy. Is that her name?

[Matt Koplick]

What's. What's Carousel? Never heard of her. Know, we should talk more about. We should talk more about. Be more chill. I don't. So here's the thing.

[Rob W. Schneider]

Yes. How would you like to.

[Matt Koplick]

I actually don't disagree with you about George Salazar or Bonnie Milligan. It's more that I didn't like either of those shows.

[Rob W. Schneider]

Sure.

[Matt Koplick]

That they were the best things about shows that weren't good. And if those shows were better.

[Rob W. Schneider]

I get you.

[Matt Koplick]

They would have been.

[Rob W. Schneider]

I get you. I think in George's case, I actually really loved his performance. And I. And I understand that, you know, not everybody likes the material. I don't. I thought he and Bonnie and her and Head Over Heels, I don't know. I just. I thought that they deserved. Also Rachel York and Head Over Heels also did a little bit for me.

[Matt Koplick]

Head Over Heels. It sucked that it closed when it did and had absolutely no momentum when it was open. So I understood why that happened. I just could tell Bonnie was not gonna get that nomination. I watched her in that show. I was like, if the next show you do, if it's better than this, you're absolutely getting nominated. And the next show she did was Kimberly Akimbo. So, like, not only did she get.

[Rob W. Schneider]

Nominated, do you think people think that? Do you think people go, ah, I really like her, but she's the only good thing. No thinking a bad show. So I'm not going to nominate her.

[Matt Koplick]

Yeah, I think that when people don't like a show, it's. And it closes, it's out of sight, out of mind. They don't think about the stuff that they liked at the time. All they can think about is the overwhelming bad thing, bad feeling they had about the show. I don't think anyone thinking to themselves, like, oh, I'll nominate you next time. Me, myself, with my Rain man brain, can see the pieces moving in the future.

[Rob W. Schneider]

Okay.

[Matt Koplick]

That said, it doesn't always work for me because I've been saying that about Paul for years now, and it keeps not happening.

[Rob W. Schneider]

He'll get something at some point.

[Matt Koplick]

I don't know who, which. Which Tony God he refused to fuck 30 years ago because that God has been spiteful ever since. They were like, please, Paul Nolan me. And he was like, I'm busy and I respect women too much.

[Rob W. Schneider]

It was Isabelle Stevenson.

[Matt Koplick]

Hasn't she had enough dick in her life? That woman rode everything.

[Rob W. Schneider]

She was my. Who the fuck was she, by the way?

[Matt Koplick]

She was the 15th swan in Capote's clan. And those women, everyone friends, if you.

[Rob W. Schneider]

Don'T know who Isabelle Stevenson is, watch any Tony broadcast from the 80s or 90s. She comes out to talk about the American Theatre wing. She looks like some real WASPy woman. I don't know who she is now.

[Matt Koplick]

No one does. No one ever has.

[Rob W. Schneider]

The American Theatre wing takes students to see plays. Poor students, disabled students, ugly students, ugly students, all kinds of students. I don't know.

[Matt Koplick]

Congrats, Izzy. You did it.

[Rob W. Schneider]

And if Paul Alexander Nolan will fuck me, I'll be more than happy to give him a nomination. Until then, congratulations to the song of Jacob Zulu, which double teamed me and hence now has a best score nomination.

[Matt Koplick]

Overseen by the lieutenant.

[Rob W. Schneider]

Overseen by the lieutenant.

[Matt Koplick]

Thank you. Thank you to the lieutenant for letting me sit on his face while we listened to the song of Jacob Zulu.

[Rob W. Schneider]

Thank you.

[Matt Koplick]

Thank you.

[Rob W. Schneider]

But once again. You really think the song of Jacob Zulu was more deserving than my favorite year? Anna Karenina was more deserving than my favorite year.

[Matt Koplick]

I didn't say that.

[Rob W. Schneider]

You. You looked at me like, I don't see what the problem is. That was. That was the look you gave me.

[Matt Koplick]

Because I'm a dick, Rob.

[Rob W. Schneider]

You said, I don't see what the problem is gonna be.

[Matt Koplick]

Yeah. I say the same thing about people giving their kids up for adoption. I'm like, what? What's the problem? You don't want the kid? You don't love the kid. Kids are gross. Give it to someone. Other problems.

[Rob W. Schneider]

That's what we did with a couple of our kids.

[Matt Koplick]

Yeah. I won't say who, but I was telling Rob before he recorded that I was with a friend of ours at a show where we ran into another friend of his and her child, who I refer to as their oldest mistake.

[Rob W. Schneider]

I think that I. If people want to have kid. Hey, Matt, if I remember the play Daddy Issues, which won the Pulitzer Prize, by the way, back in 2014. Friends I am. But I don't need to tell you that that was a play about a character, you, my friend, who I think ended up adopting a child. Isn't it that with the.

[Matt Koplick]

No, it turns out that I actually made a kid.

[Rob W. Schneider]

We fathered a child.

[Matt Koplick]

The one woman.

[Rob W. Schneider]

Hence the issues for Daddy.

[Matt Koplick]

Yes. The one woman that I ever went inside of. She actually had my child. And we had a kid at the end of the show. I thought he was just my neighbor, but turns out he was really my kid.

[Rob W. Schneider]

Wow. Isn't that a beautiful story?

[Matt Koplick]

Yeah, it was. Crazy.

[Rob W. Schneider]

Who did the film adaptation of Daddy Issues?

[Matt Koplick]

Greta Gerwig.

[Rob W. Schneider]

Beautiful.

[Matt Koplick]

That's what inspired Barbie.

[Rob W. Schneider]

Oh, my God. Yes. I remember.

[Matt Koplick]

She said, what if we set all of this in Barbie land?

[Rob W. Schneider]

It was beautifully done.

[Matt Koplick]

It was beautifully done.

[Rob W. Schneider]

Beautifully done.

[Matt Koplick]

And I call America forever. Daddy. Rob, before we go on any more defense, I think we should just wrap this fucker up.

[Rob W. Schneider]

Whatever you want, man.

[Matt Koplick]

Fantastic. We're gonna listen.

[Rob W. Schneider]

First time I've ever heard Matt say wrap it up before. Usually he's.

[Matt Koplick]

I do not.

[Rob W. Schneider]

We need to stop full circle, friends. I just want you to picture Matt getting railed by Bill Frawley.

[Matt Koplick]

Stop it. From my straight cousin Scott sometimes listens to this episode.

[Rob W. Schneider]

Hey, Scott, do me a favor. How you doing, Scott? It's Rob. It's just like when a man's with a woman, except up the ass. And I want you to picture he's your cousin. I want you to picture little cousin Matty riding Fred Mertz. You gotta google him. Google Fred Mertz and you'll get what I'm talking about next time. What's his name? Scott. Cousin Scott. Next time we would do this together because this is something that you probably. Is he straight?

[Matt Koplick]

Yes, he's straight.

[Rob W. Schneider]

Oh, then you probably don't have to deal with the. We're gonna talk a little about douching and fleet enemas next week.

[Matt Koplick]

Anyone can deal with enemas. You don't have to be straight or gay.

[Rob W. Schneider]

Yeah, but we're talking about penetration here.

[Matt Koplick]

Everyone can get penetrated up the butt.

[Rob W. Schneider]

Where's cousin Scott from here?

[Matt Koplick]

We're all from here.

[Rob W. Schneider]

Oh, you're from New York, cousin Scott. Oh, amazing. Swing by my place. I'm 135th and Broadway. I'll show you a couple of diagrams.

[Matt Koplick]

But in the meantime, Scott has done his due diligence.

[Rob W. Schneider]

Hope to see you at the family reunion where cousin Matty's getting double teamed by Fred Mertz.

[Matt Koplick]

Fred Mertz and Fred Mertz is identical twin who we call the Lieutenant.

[Rob W. Schneider]

He.

[Matt Koplick]

Scott did his due diligence as an ally and went with me to see Once Upon a One more Time and. And stayed and stayed through the whole thing.

[Rob W. Schneider]

Did he really?

[Matt Koplick]

Sure did.

[Rob W. Schneider]

That's pretty great. Hey, cousin Scott, if you want, I got tickets to go see Juan Dariana Carnival Mass. So if you. If you want to come join me, cousin Scott. It's always a seat for you, Rob.

[Matt Koplick]

Where can the listeners find you if you want?

[Rob W. Schneider]

Probably in therapy at this point. Where can the listeners. You can find me on Instagram @RobWschneider or I have a podcast as well called Broadway, the Musicals that Never Came to Broadway, which I hope you listen to. And also a few years ago I did over 600 episodes of a podcast called behind the Curtain. Broadway's Living Legends, where we interviewed people that were in the business for 30 plus years. And I think it's a pretty nice legacy.

[Matt Koplick]

It is. If you want to find me, I'm on Instagram only at Matt Koplik Usual spelling. If you like the podcast, give us a nice 5 star usual spelling, give us a nice 5 star rating or review. You guys have been crushing with these reviews. I will be true to my word and I will post that life of the party video. If you get us to 275 by Tony Day, I'll tell you all who Bub is. No, I won't. I won't do that.

[Rob W. Schneider]

We. What would take you to reveal who it is?

[Matt Koplick]

I mean, at this point, I don't really have to. Enough people know the story that it's out there.

[Rob W. Schneider]

Let me ask you a question. Can I ask you a question?

[Matt Koplick]

Yes, please.

[Rob W. Schneider]

Your play. Because your listeners know about your play.

[Matt Koplick]

They know about it.

[Rob W. Schneider]

Yeah, Right. If at some point it goes somewhere in the New York Times, it's like, hey, who is this person? Would you be like, oh, it's blah, blah, blah. Or let me ask you this. If the New York Times says, hey, I think we figured out who this person is and we think and it is the person, would you confirm that or would you say, I can't confirm. I can't deny I would.

[Matt Koplick]

I would not confirm or deny. The whole point of the play isn't about outing him. It's. It's about. It was what I did to deal with what I was going through. Because due to the fallout of everything, I couldn't talk to him and get any answers from him. So I had to make my own answers. And then it also just was such an insane story that it had to be done. Something had to be done with it. And yeah, so it. And now it's just something that I'm proud of.

[Rob W. Schneider]

You know what's kind of nice about this whole thing?

[Matt Koplick]

Why?

[Rob W. Schneider]

That you're in a situation where the person can't turn around and say, don't do this. Because at that point they admit to what they've done.

[Matt Koplick]

Well, no, they can.

[Rob W. Schneider]

You know what I mean?

[Matt Koplick]

Well, they.

[Rob W. Schneider]

It makes them look like a shitty person is what I'm saying.

[Matt Koplick]

I don't think he has any problem admitting to it, that the problem isn't him willing to admit to it. He's done that. He's got a lot of Irish Catholic gifts, guilt.

[Rob W. Schneider]

The problem is that this is Bill faraway once again.

[Matt Koplick]

Bill, for all you know, the problem is that the two main ways to communicate are impossible or not impossible. They're difficult because he was convinced to block my number and delete it without informing me that that's what was about to happen. And then when the.

[Rob W. Schneider]

Oh, he blocked you?

[Matt Koplick]

Yes. His person who he was then with, they, they initiated. They told him, I want you to do this. And he did it. And I was never told, but we were still in community. We still were quote, unquote friends on Instagram at the time, even though he claimed, oh, I don't really know how it works, but he does. And we had a moment like three weeks later on Instagram where we were talking and the conversation wasn't going great. I was trying to like, just honestly talk about my emotions and what I was going through and, and, and talk about the realities of our situation. And he was just, it was crazy to talk to him about it because he just seemed totally brainwashed at that point. It was not a conversation anymore. He was just saying what felt like pre planned therapy speeches. And when that ended in nothing, he either blocked, then unblocked me on Instagram or he unfollowed me and had me unfollow him, which is something you can do. I found out and I went, oh, if he was willing to do all of that, the only bit of agency I have left is to block him on Instagram. That's the only, like, the last thing I can do. So I did it and I don't regret it. And I haven't unblocked him yet. But the whole point of us talking about it isn't him being unwilling to admit about what happened between us. It's just there's no mode to communicate unless we run into each other in a room, which, which could have happened at any point in the last year and a half. I will be in a room with him in June, but it's gonna be a very large room with about 2,000 other people, so I doubt we're gonna run into each other. But he knows that people.

[Rob W. Schneider]

Does that give you anxiety?

[Matt Koplick]

A little bit. But I know I, I've been preparing for it now for, honestly a couple of weeks since I found out it was gonna happen. And it'll happen and it'll be fine. There's an event that I would have been at that I know he'll be at, but luckily I'll be in London, so I can't go to the event anymore. But yeah, I wonder if he has anxiety thinking about, like, running into me in situations. I always do.

[Rob W. Schneider]

Were you one of many, like, did this happen to other people?

[Matt Koplick]

As well, or what happened specifically, what happened to me happened to nobody else.

[Rob W. Schneider]

Okay.

[Matt Koplick]

Like, that story.

[Rob W. Schneider]

It wasn't like, oh, there's a string of gentlemen this happens to, is what I mean.

[Matt Koplick]

There were. There were other gentlemen he had been.

[Rob W. Schneider]

With, but not to the this extent.

[Matt Koplick]

No.

[Rob W. Schneider]

Got it.

[Matt Koplick]

No, no, no. I was. I was the only one. And then the fallout from all of that on his end got even worse after I got excommunicated, which gave me schadenfreude for all of five seconds, and then just made me even sadder because it just. Remember how I said we were wrapping things up and then we just took all I asked.

[Rob W. Schneider]

I asked a question.

[Matt Koplick]

But when. When you care about someone and you know they care about you, but they have so many other demons that they're hiding from you and then have a whole other thing going on in their life that you know nothing about or don't know the full extent of, you say all these things that you mean and then look like an idiot when the truth reveals itself. You know, it's. To continue being vague about being a little more specific about him. His circumstances, his situation was not made clear to me when we met. It was not told at all to me when we met. And then I got some information over time.

[Rob W. Schneider]

From him or from other people?

[Matt Koplick]

From him, from him. Pieces. And I always thought it was the whole situation, but it would turn out like three weeks later. It wasn't. There was more. And so by the time that the whole picture came into frame, it was already, like, messy. But I thought, okay, let me help him through this, because this is a bad situation that he granted he put himself in. But I care about him. I want to be in his life, even if I can't be like his partner anymore because I don't know if I trust him. I don't know if he is willing to want that from me, but he says he still wants to be around me, so let's figure out a way to be around each other and also get him out of what is a bad situation. And ultimately, he chose the bad situation and completely cut me off. And then I learned more about that situation after the fact from other interested parties who found out about me and connected with me and were like, well, here's more information about what's gone on over there before he met you, since he's met you, since he's excommunicated from you. And it just. It went from not good to worse. I think he's in a better spot now, luckily. But also, I think I don't know if too much has happened in response to all of that and if maybe I've been too vocal on the podcast and vocal to. Of mutual friends, because we have a lot of mutual friends. The one thing I'll say about Bub is that he is in this community. And so people who listen to this podcast who know what happened, they're probably like, Matt, you're very thinly veiling this. And people who don't know what happened are like, I have no idea who you're talking about. But it's, it's, it, it's too. Because of how much I talk about it and the way I talk about it. The reason why is because him being the community means despite the fact that he's blocked on Instagram and I. And I can't speak to him via text, he does pop up on my Instagram sometimes.

[Rob W. Schneider]

Oh sure.

[Matt Koplick]

Through mutual friends from projects they've done together. Just like being in the room. So he's just. He is on my mind more often than I would like. And I don't think I'm on his mind as much because I don't have the footprint that he has in the community. So I don't think that I'm popping up on his feed the way that he.

[Rob W. Schneider]

But you might be popping up in his mind, maybe.

[Matt Koplick]

I know that the person he would. Was involved with that told him to delete me. They were very much hounding into me after the fact.

[Rob W. Schneider]

Were you, prior to him, were you in a lot of other relationships?

[Matt Koplick]

1.

[Rob W. Schneider]

How long was that one for?

[Matt Koplick]

Only a couple of months. I had a lot of unresolved trauma from my grooming from high school that I didn't even come to terms with until I graduated from college. And it affected my intimacy, it affected my trust in people and my own self worth. And the first person I fell in love with was. I was 27. And he was great. But I realized that I had not done the work on myself to be in a relationship. So we only were together for a couple months and I parted ways with him. And we're still on good terms. He's in a wonderful relationship now. He's a great, wonderful man. And then Bub was the next person I fell in love with. And it was totally by accident. And it's stupid because in so many ways we should be together. It's just all the bullshit that came attached with him with his situation that got in the way. And it's also stupid. And my friend Josh and I have talked about this because Josh has known Bob longer than I have and knows all about everything. He could have done a hard thing and ended his situation and worked on himself, and I would have been there as a friend while he did that, and then we could have seen where it went. But he went with this situation because he thought that that was a more honorable and possibly easier. And it ended up being even harder and even worse. I was like. And you could have just cut it off and we could, like, because I was. I was there for you. But he didn't want that, and so now things are worse. But, yeah, I'll see him again at some point.

[Rob W. Schneider]

Yeah. Sometimes you just need to rip the band aid off.

[Matt Koplick]

Yeah.

[Rob W. Schneider]

You know what I mean?

[Matt Koplick]

I think what gives me anxiety is I don't know how he's gonna react because I know that I will be a nervous wreck and there's no response from him that will make me feel good.

[Rob W. Schneider]

If you run into each other, you mean?

[Matt Koplick]

Yeah. Because if he tries to be polite as if, like, there's nothing, then that will ruin me. If he tries to be over sympathetic and indulgent in trying to, like, like, talk about it, that's not gonna make me feel good. Like, there's no outside of, like, hey, can we, like, sit down and talk? And, like, can I get your number again? Like, I want to do right. And I like, it pains me how much pain I know you went through afterwards. That's the only thing that would, like, make me feel remotely better. But probably even.

[Rob W. Schneider]

That probably wouldn't do an apology.

[Matt Koplick]

He apologized the first time, but it was an apology at me, not to me. I didn't ask for an apology. I just wanted to talk about, you know, us and what had happened and acknowledge, you know, everything that was kind of troubling me. And he just, you know, went on this long speech of, oh, well, I've treated you so poorly, and you're. And you're so kind. And I was like, you're. You're giving me a condolence care package. You're not speaking like someone who literally told me 48 hours ago, I never want to have you out of my life. It was very like, oh, you've been drinking the Kool Aid. But we digress. Yeah. Again, we said we were gonna wrap this up.

[Rob W. Schneider]

I have so many more questions, but.

[Matt Koplick]

Okay, well, why don't we get off.

[Rob W. Schneider]

Mike, and go somewhere I can. I'm gonna go have a date with Bub.

[Matt Koplick]

Okay, fantastic. I figured you were gonna have a date with Bub. You were gonna cast him in something.

[Rob W. Schneider]

Yeah.

[Matt Koplick]

All right, fantastic. I will say I'll cut all this out.

[Rob W. Schneider]

His name did come up for a project that I'm working on.

[Matt Koplick]

If you're about to work on.

[Rob W. Schneider]

No, that I. That I had worked on that one.

[Matt Koplick]

I know.

[Rob W. Schneider]

And I was like, yeah, I know.

[Matt Koplick]

You told me.

[Rob W. Schneider]

Did I tell you that? And I was like, oh, I can't.

[Matt Koplick]

Yes.

[Rob W. Schneider]

I can't.

[Matt Koplick]

Yes. The last show you just did. I know. And I figured he would, too, because of his connection with them. But I'm glad that it. The cast you assembled was great. Everyone was great.

[Rob W. Schneider]

Yeah. No, no, no. And he. He's very talented and he would have been lovely, but just not also right for what we're trying to do over at our company.

[Matt Koplick]

No. And as it turns out, he wouldn't been able to do it anyway. He was. Yeah, he was doing. He was busy at the time.

[Rob W. Schneider]

He was busy.

[Matt Koplick]

Yeah. It's about to be busy again. Okay. Must be nice. Must be nice to be always busy. I wish I was busy.

[Rob W. Schneider]

It's Harvey Fierstein. I don't know why we keep trying to come up with this name for him. It's Harvey Fierstein, folks.

[Matt Koplick]

It's Vianne Cox.

[Rob W. Schneider]

It's Vianne Cox. Matt's broken his heart over Vann Cox. I understand.

[Matt Koplick]

She ruined me. It's fine. Okay, so who should we close out, then? Fianna Cox is our diva for the day.

[Rob W. Schneider]

Oh, do you do a Diva of the day?

[Matt Koplick]

We close out with the diva every time.

[Rob W. Schneider]

I think it's either her cheetah, because I feel like either one of those. Get some. No, you know what? Fuck it. Janine. Lamanna.

[Matt Koplick]

Janine. Lamanna.

[Rob W. Schneider]

Janine.

[Matt Koplick]

We'll do Janine.

[Rob W. Schneider]

Janine.

[Matt Koplick]

I love it. I love it so much. All right, so thank you so much for listening, guys. We'll do one more episode after this, and then your boy goes to London for a week. So we're gonna take a little hiatus for that week.

[Rob W. Schneider]

Where you taking me?

[Matt Koplick]

Where am I taking you? Notting Hill Love.

[Rob W. Schneider]

Oh, I can't wait.

[Matt Koplick]

No, I can. You're working. You're doing Fiddler. Yeah.

[Rob W. Schneider]

Yeah. Do you know what you're going to see, though?

[Matt Koplick]

Yes. We're seeing Operation Mincemeat, Standing at Sky's Edge and the Immersive Guys and Dolls.

[Rob W. Schneider]

Oh, I'm so jealous. How long are you going to be there for?

[Matt Koplick]

Six days.

[Rob W. Schneider]

Who are you going with?

[Matt Koplick]

My mommy.

[Rob W. Schneider]

Damn, I'm jealous.

[Matt Koplick]

Yeah. We're going to have a fun time.

[Rob W. Schneider]

Have fun. Have fun. Safe travels.

[Matt Koplick]

Take it away, Ms. Lamana. Bye.

[Rob W. Schneider]

Then came the hole Where I caught my soul and I rolled downhill out of all control Till I broke my ball On a jagged shoe for you There was nothing that I wouldn't and.

[Matt Koplick]

I couldn't and I haven't gone through I straighten my little toe that I.

[Rob W. Schneider]

Hobble like so for you.