Broadway Breakdown – "ANGELS IN AMERICA (Final Episode)" w/ Robert W. Schneider

Host: Matt Koplik
Guest: Robert W. Schneider
Date: March 13, 2025

Overview

This final installment of Broadway Breakdown’s “Grab Bag” series dives deep into Tony Kushner’s Pulitzer and Tony-winning masterpiece, Angels in America (focusing on Part One: Millennium Approaches, but also Perestroika). Host Matt Koplik and returning guest Robert W. Schneider ("Daddy") geek out over their personal history with the play, unpack its legacy and influence on American theatre, dissect memorable productions, characterizations, and its impact on both the queer and theatrical canon. Expect irreverent humor, spicy opinions, personal anecdotes, and no lack of hard-learned theatre geekery.

Key Discussion Points & Insights

The Personal Entry Point: How "Angels" Entered Their Lives

• Matt: Saw the 1993/94 original Broadway production (recently at Lincoln Center Library) and owns multiple script versions; discussed how versions differ significantly.
• Rob: Discovered the play as a middle-schooler at Borders Bookstore in California, re-reading it to unlock its “complicated puzzle.” First performance exposure came via the 1993 Tony Awards and its subsequent HBO miniseries (07:15).

Which Version of the Play is "Best"?

• Multiple Script Editions:
  • Perestroika has been most altered over time.
  • "The most recent edition is probably the strongest version of Perestroika overall. It’s the tightest, the most focused..." (06:13, Matt)
• For New Readers: The HBO miniseries is a good, accessible starting point for the play’s emotional resonance (06:41–07:15).

The Play’s Place in Theater History

• "It was all anybody could talk about." (12:55, Rob)
• Compared Angels to other seismic plays like Who’s Afraid of Virginia Woolf?, but note that Angels’ scale, theatricality, and poetry transcend (13:30–15:04).
• Unique for mixing epic and intimate, poetic and earthy, and using humor as a survival tool (16:58).
• The play’s humor is often lost in collegiate productions but essential for its full resonance.

Approaching Angels—Production and Performance

• Production History:
  • Traces multi-year birthing process at Eureka Theater, Mark Taper Forum, National Theatre, and Broadway (11:32).
• Original Broadway production set was "the most spectacle-heavy version" with intricate scenic effects (21:47–22:04).
• Matt critiques various Angels productions:
  • Refreshes on National Theater vs. OG Broadway and HBO’s “straight man” approach (24:52–26:28).
  • Andrew Garfield’s Prior in the NT transfer: “very analytical and...cold. What I did enjoy was the New York run leaned more into the play's comedy.” (24:52)
• Discussion of Performance Nuance:
  • Marcia Gay Harden’s Harper—emphasizes her as a prophet, and the character’s pain and sexual frustration (27:11).
  • Mary-Louise Parker’s Harper—childlike, spaced-out, and "intimate" on screen (29:32).

Thematic Analysis: Humanity, Messiness, and No "Pat" Endings

• Angels’ enduring greatness is its refusal to tie things up simply — all characters “fuck up,” relationships are ambiguous, and resolutions are honest, not sentimental (34:56–36:34).
• Characters: “Outside of maybe Belize, no character is totally innocent. And Belize...is very vindictive and has no problem screwing the knife in...” (33:58, Matt)
• Rob: “I think this play, two, three hundred years from now, [will be] considered the greatest American play.” (32:53)
• Comparison to other “gay plays”—Angels is not just "a gay play," but a prism for American life, morality, power, marriage, politics, and cosmic themes (32:54–33:36).

Character Deep-Dives

Lewis

• “He also happens to just suck as a human being. He’s weak. He’s spineless...he can only deal with the abstract. When it comes to morality, Lewis is.” (41:17, Matt)
• “Lewis is the modern equivalent of everyone who posts on Instagram something political but never does anything about it...” (41:17, Rob)

Joe

• “Every time he’s tried to admit his truth, he’s been punished, chastised, humiliated.” (39:40, Rob)
• “I’ve always imagined he lives with his mom for a little bit, then gets scared and retreats back into religion...there’s so much damage done to him.” (37:38)

Hannah Pitt

• A survivor, possibly even coded as queer: “If anybody in the show is a survivor, I think it’s her. 1,000%.” (107:33, Rob)
• Her arrival in New York is a “test” she’s well equipped for due to her difficult past (105:00).

Belize

• “Belize is the only adult in the room.” (74:20, Matt)
• More than a sidekick; “if you had to pick one of these characters [to be], I would pick Belize.” (73:32, Rob)
• His pivotal final act—redistributing Roy’s AZT—subverts Cohn’s earlier rants about who gets things done (76:11).

Roy Cohn

• The template: primal, visceral, “no fear,” best when he “terrifies you” (78:22, Rob).
• Contrasts among actors: Liebman, Lane, Pacino, and wishes for contemporary casting options.

Harper

• Needs vulnerability with self-awareness, resists victimhood (94:48).
• “What I loved about Mary Louise Parker’s...Night Flight to San Francisco, I just cried because it was so beautifully delivered.” (96:13, Rob)

The Play’s Cultural Resonance and Relevance

• Angels ages and resonates differently depending on the political climate (32:38).
• Watching or reading it in post-Trump, anti-LGBTQ+, or pandemic-era America alters the ending’s hope/naïveté ratio (29:43–32:38).
• Quote: “Every version is a version for the time that it’s coming out in.” (29:43, Matt)

Approach to Casting Angels in 2025

Dream Casting:

• Roy Cohn: Must be dangerous, no fear—“you want to feel danger when this guy’s on stage.” (78:22)
• Prior: “There’s an ethereal quality…almost otherworldly. There has to be this peace about this person.” (81:11, Rob)
• Lewis: “A jazz musician with words.” (82:36, Rob)
• Joe: “A shell…like the last bit of life is being drained out of him…blonde-haired, blue-eyed…impenetrable.” (85:32)
• Belize: “A laser-focused truth teller...who can be funny.” (91:43)
• Harper: “An intense vulnerability…more in touch with her emotions than anyone else in the play…but also really strong.” (94:48)
• Hannah: “Resume of every major Shakespearean heroine…fiercely intelligent. Survivor.” (102:15–107:33)
• Angel: “Frances McDormand!”—needs grandeur, humor, and the ability to oscillate between the play’s absurdity and import. (108:17)

Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments

• "I found it to be one of the most complicated puzzles I had ever read.” (08:25, Rob)
• On collegiate productions: “The thing that people sort of forget about it is its humor...when you see young people do it, they don't do any of the comedy. So it becomes very morose and heavy." (16:58, Rob)
• “I viewed Andrew Garfield’s Prior as very analytical and cold…[the play] felt angry, but not funny or theatrical.” (24:52, Matt)
• “What I like about Angels is, all these characters fuck up…we see how the ones who are just human…can still heal and connect.” (34:56, Matt)
• “Belize…a homosexual who got something done.” (76:11, Matt)
• “Ron Liebman’s Roy Cohn, there was no fear even when he was dying.” (78:22, Rob)
• "If you were like, ‘Pick one of these characters to be,’ I would pick Belize." (73:32, Rob)
• “The prophecy is to tell the human race to stop moving, to stop progressing…that holds more weight from a white angel.” (114:21, Matt)
• “Lewis is the modern equivalent of everyone who posts on Instagram something political but then never does anything about it.” (41:17, Rob)
• On true theatre: “The best theater...can get a thousand people from various walks of life...and make them feel a similar way about the same story, different ways about the same story.” (66:59, Matt)

Timestamps of Key Segments

• [03:18] Introduction to Angels and the podcast’s personal connections
• [06:04] Discussion of different published versions; which one to recommend
• [07:48–13:56] Rob and Matt’s history with the play and its eruption into the culture
• [14:19–16:59] The “poetry,” “theatricality,” and “messiness” of Angels
• [22:04] Staging and spectacle—what made the Broadway original unique
• [27:11–32:38] Analysis of various major productions and actresses in the role of Harper
• [34:56–41:17] Thematic analysis—messiness, ambiguity, and why the play endures
• [46:44–56:33] Modern theater, activism, and parallels with other challenging works
• [66:07–77:00] Critics, diversity of perspective, and what makes great arts criticism
• [77:35–114:21] Dream-casting Angels; character-by-character director’s thoughts
• [114:21–117:15] Diversity and intentions in casting; ending with dreams for future presentations

Tone & Style

The podcast maintains a tone that’s deeply theatrical, irreverent, and brainy, with guests playfully ribbing each other, frequently veering into tangents and inside jokes, but always circling back to substantive theatre nerdery. Both Matt and Rob embrace their expertise and opinions with cheerful but passionate profanity and deep affection for Broadway’s history.

Listen If…

• You want sharp, unsparing, opinionated theatre talk about one of the greatest American plays ever written.
• You’re curious about Angels in America’s history, subtext, and why it continues to resonate.
• You love “who would you cast?” and “what makes a great performance?” debates.
• You’re curious why Angels endures—and why so much modern theater often fails to measure up.

Sample Notable Quotes w/ Timestamps

• “The most recent edition is probably the strongest version of Perestroika overall. It’s the tightest, the most focused.” (06:13, Matt)
• “I found it to be like one of the most complicated puzzles I had ever read.” (08:25, Rob)
• “The thing people forget about it is its humor. It’s savagely funny.” (16:58, Rob)
• “Every time you read it, something new had emerged.” (08:25, Rob)
• “Lewis is the modern equivalent of everyone who posts on Instagram something political but never does anything about it.” (41:17, Rob)
• “If anybody in the show is a survivor, I think it’s her [Hannah Pitt]. 1,000%.” (107:33, Rob)
• “[Belize is] the only adult in Angels in America.” (74:20, Matt)

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