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- [00:07]
Matt Koplik
Do, do, do not do.
- [00:14]
Voice Actor (performing songs)
The sun is shining It's a lovely day A perfect morning for a kid to play but you've got lots of bills to pay what can you do? You work real hard and the pay's Every hour goes all so slow and at the end of the day, there's nowhere to go.
- [00:44]
Matt Koplik
Hello all theater lovers both out and proud and on the DL. Welcome back to Broadway Breakdown, a podcast that discusses the history and legacy of American theater's most exclusive address, Broadway. This series is called the Big Move. It is covering shows that had such success off Broadway, they had to transfer to the Great White Way and try some luck over there. I am your host, Matt Koplik, the least famous and most opinionated of all the Broadway podcast hosts. And with me today is an alum of the pod. You might have seen him on Broadway in Carousel or into the Woods. You might have seen him across the country in My Fair lady or King and I or soon to be again in into the Woods. Actually, I think by the time this episode comes out, you will be on tour. Please welcome back Sam Semock.
- [01:28]
Sam Semock
Hey, thanks for having me, Matt. Nice to be back.
- [01:30]
Matt Koplik
Nice to have you back. It's been. It's been a minute. Everything has changed so much since you were last on.
- [01:36]
Sam Semock
Oh, so much. So much. Yeah, I think last time. Last time we were mid pandemic when we taped that.
- [01:41]
Matt Koplik
Oh, yeah, we were. We were. We were balls deep in the pandemic still. Yeah.
- [01:44]
Sam Semock
Yeah.
- [01:44]
Matt Koplik
And I mean, since we last spoke, I mean, I know I've gotten more famous. You've gotten more famous. So it's like, it's just up and up. Yeah. I don't even know what to do with myself anymore. I, like. I go out on the street and I get mobbed, and I know then I put on cloth. People leave me alone. But usually, anyway, bada bing, bada boom. Sam, what musical are we talking about today?
- [02:08]
Sam Semock
Oh, today we're talking about Avenue Q, one of my. One of my favorites.
- [02:13]
Matt Koplik
I don't know that about you.
- [02:15]
Sam Semock
You know this, actually, I'm so glad that, you know, you offered me up a whole list of shows, and I was like, oh, you know, I haven't thought about Avenue Q in a long time. Let's do Avenue Q. And then you sent me all the. All the materials to, like, oh, let's get ready for this. And I was listening to it, and it just took me right back to an era in my life. This is like high school when I would go to the record store Buy a cast recording on CD and go home, listen to it front to back, open up the booklet and read the lyrics along with the score. And that this was one of those shows along with Assassins and what else? Good Man, Charlie Brown, Miss Saigon, there were a bunch of these. But this brought me right back to then and it was fun to listen again and hear things differently from a 35 year old perspective instead of a much younger perspective. Some of the jokes differently.
- [03:14]
Matt Koplik
I was going to ask, now that you are rich and successful, do you, do you relate to the show anymore or are you just like, what are these people complaining about? Life is easy.
- [03:26]
Sam Semock
Oh, I completely relate to the show. I mean, yeah, I think nowadays if there's anything I relate to, it's. I wish I could Go Back to College is a big one. I think I've related to that one for a very long time. But yeah, I think it's fun because listening to this show, it's almost, it's a reminder of what it's like to move from college and go into the big city and try to make it and have these expectations for yourself. And through the course of living your life, you realize that life is neither as easy as it was made out to be nor as hard as some people make it out to be. And you just go to sleep one night, you wake up the next day, rinse and repeat. Life goes on. Yeah, it's a beautiful show.
- [04:20]
Matt Koplik
What, so what is, what is your history with the show? With this show? How did it come into your life?
- [04:25]
Sam Semock
First, I think I didn't know the show. I learned about the show through like a friend in community theater was how I learned about it. Somebody was singing Everyone's a Little Bit Racist. And I was like, what is that? And they're like, oh, it's the show. Avenue Q. I was like, oh, okay. And so I bought the cast recording and listened to it and, you know, burned a hole in it. I thought it was so funny, so great. And I grew up with, I grew up on sesame street and Mr. Rogers and Lamb Chop and all of that stuff. And so this show really, it really resonated in so many ways because, because of its source material, it was written for our generation and late Gen X millennials, that sort of, that generation. So it hits close to home and it's very fun. But I've never done it.
- [05:21]
Matt Koplik
I've never done it either.
- [05:23]
Sam Semock
Which is weird because I think in an alternate world, Matt, I think you and I would be cast in this show. You as Princeton Rod and me as nikki Trekkie monster.
- [05:33]
Matt Koplik
1,000%.
- [05:34]
Sam Semock
1,000%.
- [05:35]
Matt Koplik
Well, first of all, we are still very young and supple. There is absolutely there are. And I have decided this year to pay my equity dues and audition again. Just for shits and giggles.
- [05:49]
Sam Semock
Yeah, of course.
- [05:51]
Matt Koplik
Because I looked in the mirror the other day, Sam, and I listened to my sweet dulcet tones and I really thought the world should see and hear my face, body and voice.
- [06:01]
Sam Semock
And of course, especially your body.
- [06:03]
Matt Koplik
Especially my body. Listen, the. The one upside of trauma and depression of 2022 is that now my torso is shredded and I. And I need the world to experience it like I did. And so we've repaid our dues and we're going to go back out there and as soon as I book, I'm going to say, so I don't know what this thing is that I booked and I don't know what the other roles are, but Sam C. Mock is going to come in and we are going to do the if you were gay scene. I don't know how it's going to fit in Mother courage and her children, but that's what we're going to do.
- [06:33]
Sam Semock
It'll be great.
- [06:34]
Matt Koplik
It'll be wonderful. But I got into this show, so I'm. I'm a New York City child. You know this about me. And I got into this when it came out. I was telling my friend Adam this morning, actually, I was like, it's so weird because this was like the season maybe. Like, I started getting into sort of like the Broadway scene of, like, what the Tonys were and what was up for stuff around, like, the Producers Full Monty year. But I didn't really know anything until this season. Like, I would. I only knew the shows that I liked. So, like the year of Millie and Mamma Mia. I really just knew that Hairspray. I just knew Hairspray moving out and Bernadette Peters, of course, because I'm gay. But this was the first season where, like, I was kind of on top of all the nominees when they were first coming out. And I was telling Adam, like, I don't remember hearing anything about Avenue Q until it opened on Broadway, and it just sort of became everywhere. Same thing with Wicked. Like, I don't know what it was in me that decided I had to see Wicked towards the end of Broadway previews. Like, I knew very little about it. I only kind of knew Chenoweth and Joel Gray and you say Stephen schwartz and I'm 13. I'm like, yeah, I guess the Pippin guy. But something in me was like, I should probably see that before it opens up. And that was like a very game changing decision for me. Avenue Q. Like, it was just sort of. You would. You would see ads everywhere that it was like all black with the orange fuzz in the middle that said Q on it. And you'd be like, what the fuck's that about? And then they started having advertisements around with photos of the puppets with sort of suggestive or explicit taglines. So they had one of that was like just Lucy T Sluts cleavage. They had one with Rod where he's like, I'm not a closet at home or whatever. And they would talk about the full puppet nudity. And I got the cast album, laughed my ass off, saw the show, thought it was very funny. But this was like the first year of the great debate of what deserved best musical. Like, at least in my friendship groups. And that has maintained in my life ever since. So coming back to it and rewatching the show business documentary, I was reminded of all of that. Yeah.
- [08:42]
Sam Semock
So cool. I'm glad you sent that to me.
- [08:44]
Matt Koplik
It's a fun documentary.
- [08:45]
Sam Semock
Yeah. And it's. What a packed season that was, huh? Caroline or Change and Wicked and Avenue.
- [08:50]
Matt Koplik
Q. Yeah, and, and, and I mean, there's the drama of Taboo and they don't even cover Boy from Oz like at all, which was. I mean, that show wasn't very good, but still it was a hit because of Hugh Jackman. And they don't like even really cover the revivals. Like there was the Fiddler revival with none of the Jews and Assassins with like that amazing cast. It was. It was a real good season. I. So usually with me at the Tonys, I tend to root for the thing that's never going to win. And that kind of happened this season. I had major whiplash because I saw Wicked first and came out like the next day. Like I said, I saw DMZ L due to Find Gravity and I was like, and I'm gay and kicked it.
- [09:32]
Sam Semock
Over the edge pretty much.
- [09:36]
Matt Koplik
So I have an UQ a few months later and I remember thinking like, oh, like, this is probably going to win. This is the artistic choice. And then I saw Caroline or Change that May and I knew it wasn't going to win, but I just was like, oh, no, this is the real brilliant show that no one's going to appreciate. And then I saw Light in the Piazza, like six months after that and I officially became an esoteric monster. But it's like the Double WHAMMY of those two shows just made me a complete asshole. Like, I. I saw Carolina change and lighting the piazza within a year of each other, and I was like, I will be accepted into Emerson College and I will become a douche.
- [10:12]
Sam Semock
Like, I know what musical theater is and what it's supposed to be.
- [10:16]
Matt Koplik
I know what intelligent theater is. Oh, you can't understand it. Is it too dense for you? You little. Boo. Boo. Re. Watching the show, though, for this episode, I was struck by how sad I got watching it. Does that make sense?
- [10:33]
Sam Semock
That totally makes sense.
- [10:34]
Matt Koplik
Yeah. Just there's. The show is very funny, but I don't know, there's so much about, like, the heartbreak and directionlessness of the characters that I was like, God damn it. Like, I'm. I'm just an open wound right now and I'm bleeding.
- [10:48]
Sam Semock
And then I laugh, which is so fun because it's. We not fun. But. But it's. It's fun because it's a. It's such a satire, and it's so. It's so silly and over the top so much of the time, but the themes are just so real and the character's problems are so real. Yeah.
- [11:04]
Matt Koplik
I mean, that's the thing is, like, everything they're talking about is real. And that's sort of the whole. The whole way that the show came about was because Jeff Marx and Robert Lopez met at a BMI workshop, and they did. They came up with the idea of Kermit the Frog singing a song as if he were Hamlet. So it's Kermit, Prince of Denmark. And that's how they met Rick Lyon, because Jeff Marx, I guess, was an intern at Sesame street, so he had a lot of Henson connections.
- [11:32]
Sam Semock
And Rick made the puppets for that. For.
- [11:34]
Matt Koplik
Yes. And was the original Nicky Trekkie monster. And so he sang the song for them and did, like, a Kermit puppet and all that. And they won. They tied for, like, three other writers for the Kleeban Award and were able to get it to the Henson Company, and they said, absolutely not. So they were trying to figure out what they could do next. And Lopez had the idea, like. Well, he's like, we all love Sesame Street. What if there was Sesame street for adults that, like, taught you how to live life and, like, deal with shit that sucks? And that was sort of like the million dollar idea. And originally was supposed to be a TV special. And they got lion to come back and John Tartaglia and Stephanie d', Abruzzo, because they all were from Sesame Street. They got Anne Harada, because I guess Amanda Green of Condon and Green's, like, Adolph Green's daughter knew her, and they were in desperate need of an Asian actress. And, like, the story they say is, like, because Robert Lopez is half Asian and they couldn't find an Asian actress. They were this close to having Robert Lopez play Christmas Eve for the reading, just, like, out of sheer desperation, right? But luckily they got Ann at the last second, but it was just like a couple of songs that they were going to sing in hopes of getting investors for a TV special. And Jeffrey Seller, Kevin McCallum and Robin Goodman said, like, no, no, no, this is a stage show. You're going to make this a stage show. They get Jeff Whitney to write it, to write the book for them. And what made it connect so immediately with. With those producers and with audiences, the Vineyard and then eventually on Broadway was what you were saying. It's like, it's. It's satire, it's spoofy, it's quirky, it's funny. But the comedy comes from a very real place. Like, all this stuff, what makes it funny is that it's puppets. If it weren't puppets, it would just be cute and kind of sad. But because it's puppets, it becomes absolutely hysterical. I mean, like, who doesn't connect with the fact that, like, Princeton, you know, messy douche that he is, all he really wants is to find a reason to be alive. And by the end of the show, everyone's like, you may not find it. And it's a very hard truth to hear. Like, you not only you may not find it, you may not actually be very special. And I think we all kind of have to kind of have that in our back pocket sometimes, right?
- [13:49]
Sam Semock
And it's so antithetical to what we were taught by the actual kids shows at the time, which is everybody's special. And that's not to say like, oh, you shouldn't tell kids that they're special. Like, I think you should tell kids that they're special and that they should reach for the stars and try to make the world a better place. And. But at the same time, like, you know, this. This fake kids show that's for young adults that's saying, you'll never find your purpose, you're not special, is the exact opposite of that message of Fred Rogers and the like.
- [14:25]
Matt Koplik
So are you familiar with Everyday Rapture, the Shari Renee Scott show?
- [14:28]
Sam Semock
Not at all, no.
- [14:30]
Matt Koplik
Wow. Okay.
- [14:31]
Sam Semock
So sorry.
- [14:32]
Matt Koplik
We discovered that Sam Seemock is homophobic, everybody. So this is.
- [14:36]
Sam Semock
This coming on your Podcast is, is a reminder to me of how bad a theater kid I actually am because, because my, my nerdom only goes so far and, and you remind me.
- [14:47]
Matt Koplik
No, I'm a freak. Don't, don't, don't, don't worry about your limitations. I'm an absolute disaster. But I, I want to be to Broadway podcast what Z way is to gotcha journalism. Like, I want to get all my Broadway friends on and just constantly trap them and put them in corners. So Sam Seemock, homophobic, sexist, problematic. Gotcha.
- [15:14]
Sam Semock
Here we go.
- [15:15]
Matt Koplik
When he's out, when he's on the road, when he's playing Jack on the road of into the woods, I want you all to boo his sorry straight ass. Anyway, so I bring this up because so everyday Rapture. It's not a one woman show really, but it was Sharon Renee Scott show and it was mostly about her life. She took some embellishments, but she opened it with when she was, she was in New York one day, she's like in Times Square. And I guess like this, this rabbi points her. It was like giving a sermon and points her out of the crowd. He's like, you walk every day. You should have two scraps of paper on you, one in each pocket. One says, I am a small speck of dust. Very Amish country. Put that in one pocket and then in the other pocket. The universe was created for me and it's having that balance. I think about that all the time. It's that balance of I have something to offer. The truth is that the world may not accept it, and that is fine. We are all special in the sense that we all come with our own baggage that is unique to us. We have our own perspectives. But we're also not special in the sense that there are billions of us and there have been billions of us and there will be billions of us. And as a human being, the two things you should try to do with the time you have is enjoy your life and try to make your little piece of earth a little better than when you found it. It's very make our garden grow from Candide. It's very, you know, don't have aspirations of like being iconic. Have aspirations of just trying to do something better because.
- [16:51]
Sam Semock
Be a good neighbor.
- [16:52]
Matt Koplik
Yeah. And won't you be my neighbor? And I bring this back to Avenue Q because I think sometimes someone like Princeton looks at purpose as like, well, I want to be remembered. I want to have something that's like mine that I've created. And in the End. Kate Monster is one who kind of gets that, but out of just the pure desire to do good in the world. Not because she's like, I will be famous. She's like, I just want to help people. And so she gets a school all on her own, which I think is very sweet.
- [17:16]
Sam Semock
She does also have a realistic goal and she has something. Whereas he has. He's like, oh, I need to find purpose. And she's like, I want to build a school. Yeah. So there's something about having a tangible goal to go after and something about having this lofty ambition of like, oh, I need to make the world a better place.
- [17:35]
Matt Koplik
Yeah. And also like, she has. He has this weird feeling of like, I can't have distractions from my purpose, therefore I can't date you, Kate Monster. And she kind of. She's like the. Are you talking about, like, you can do what you want in the world and still have someone by your side. Like, that's not a distraction. That's having someone in your corner. And he's just such a simple minded dum dum. To quote Lucy T. Slut. Penniless and well hung. That is. That is Princeton in Avenue Q. That is verbatim from the script, y'. All. I don't know how I know But.
- [18:17]
Voice Actor (performing songs)
I'm gonna find my purpose I don't know where I'm gonna look But I'm gonna find my purpose Gotta find out.
- [18:28]
Matt Koplik
Don'T wanna wait Got to make sure.
- [18:31]
Voice Actor (performing songs)
That my life will be great Gotta.
- [18:34]
Matt Koplik
Find my purpose before it's too late what is a song in this show that you would probably play for someone for the first time if they've never been exposed to it before?
- [18:47]
Sam Semock
Oh, man, that's a good question. Possibly everyone's a little bit racist, I think kind of epitomizes where the show goes, what it does. Yeah. I think, I think it depends on who the person is. Right. So if you're. If you're looking for someone who. If you're somebody who you're talking to, somebody who's like into the satire, into the comedy, everyone's a little bit racist. Maybe if you were gay. Yeah. I don't know. If you're looking for. If you're trying to convince somebody who's not all about the satire and is about a well written musical theater song. I don't know. Fine Fine Line.
- [19:29]
Matt Koplik
Fine Fine Line is a fucking heartbreaker.
- [19:31]
Sam Semock
It's a heartbreaker. I was, you know, I was just listening to it more today and there's just so much good so many good numbers. It's. It's not. There's no weak point in this score, I don't think.
- [19:42]
Matt Koplik
Yeah, that's something that I was thinking about when going through this because our. I mean our. I want to say our generation, our sort of age bracket or the very small age bracket between you and me, of musical theater fans. When it comes to this season, it's usually the argument is Avenue QV Wicked. I'm the asshole who's like, don't forget about Caroline or Change. But in the. In the simple, just logistics of Avenue Q versus Wicked, obviously Wicked's the one that has been around a lot longer. It is more internationally successful. More of those songs are now in the public canon. And I will have people still tell me, like, say what you will about Wicked, like it. It deserved best score over Avenue Q. And listening to Avenue Q again, I was reminded of how good the score is because, like Wicked, you know, it's very epic and there's all this really awesome music. But also there are songs like Sentimental man and Something Bad and often like some pretty shitty lyrics. Including one song that's not on the cast album, Wicked Witch of the east, that has literally. You're going to lose your heart to me. I tell you, if I have to, I have to magic spell you. Not exactly the lyric of the year, but it's fine.
- [21:03]
Sam Semock
Also if you're. If you're sorry. No, go ahead.
- [21:05]
Matt Koplik
No, no, no, no, no. I would say, whereas Avenue Q, I can't necessarily tell you that there's like a skippable song where I'm like, oh, that one's a dud. It's more. There are songs you can like more than others, but I think every song, for lack of a better term for being so on the nose, serves its purpose while also being funny or insightful and melodic. And if it's not as musically adventurous as Wicked or Caroline or Change, it's not supposed to be. It's simplistic in tone for a reason. Because of the esthetic that it's emulating, like sesame street and Mr. Rogers neighborhood. It can't afford to be an audaciously musical score because that would. That would be Robert Lopez trying to show off and not be true to the tone of the show.
- [21:47]
Voice Actor (performing songs)
You're a little bit racist. Well, you're a little bit too.
- [21:52]
Matt Koplik
We're all a little bit racist.
- [21:55]
Voice Actor (performing songs)
I think that I would have to agree with you. We're glad you do it sounds but true. Everyone's a little bit racist. Alright, alright, alright. Alright, bigotry has never been exclusively white. If we all could just admit that we are racist a little bit, even though we all know that it's wrong, maybe it would help us get along.
- [22:26]
Sam Semock
I do think when you compare Wicked and Avenue Q, while Wicked may have bigger, more epic orchestrations and it is this bombastic epic score, there is a lot more depth in Avenue Q for all of its simplicity. I think the, I think the, the themes are a little bit more deep. It's a. There's just more to it. And I, for that reason, I do think I totally understand Avenue Q winning best score over Wicked.
- [22:58]
Matt Koplik
When was the. When did you last see Wicked on stage?
- [23:02]
Sam Semock
I actually. And here's where I'm a really bad theater kid. I've never seen it on stage. I only listened to it a million times.
- [23:08]
Matt Koplik
Yeah, so I saw it about a year ago for the first time since Idina Menzel was still on the show. So it had been a solid like 15, 16 years since I saw Wicked. And you know, of course had seen bootlegs of different performers in different moments, but had not seen the show from start to finish live in about 16 years. And what the score does do really well is that it kind of keeps the show afloat because so much of that book does not do the dramatic work that it needs to. But also there are songs where when I watch the show I feel nothing just because it doesn't. The. The show has not gotten me to a point where like the song makes sense, like for Good is a wonderful duet, but at that point I've never felt when I watched the show that like the Elphaba Glinda friendship totally earns that number. Like that song will make me misty eyed out of context. And then when I watched it a year ago, I was like, I'm dry as a bone. I'm not. I'm not feeling nothing. Like, I mean, it's a fine line. Really, really is a gut punch to me, especially now. Like, I mean I. There's some life that you have to live and some. There's no way to say this and not make it sound dramatic. So I don't mean to make this sound like Melrose plays, but like, like emotional betrayal, you know, where someone you cared about or you were vulnerable with does not show up for you in the way that you showed up for them. Which is sort of what it's a fine, fine line is about. It's. It's romantic egg on your face of heart on your sleeve, putting yourself out there and then the person you're vulnerable with just completely pisses on your leg and tells you it's raining or worse, doesn't piss on you at all.
- [25:02]
Sam Semock
And I mean, it depends. Whatever floats your boat, you know?
- [25:05]
Matt Koplik
Yeah. And without piss, how can your boat float? But so.
- [25:11]
Sam Semock
And the song is. Is set up by mixtape too, you know, I mean, so it's. It's partially. Mixtape shows a. That she's, you know, Kate Monster is. Is doing the thing where you're like, oh, is this happening? Like, what is he thinking? And. And what's the word I'm looking for? She's projecting this idea of what the relationship is and what it can be. And you see Princeton in this scene, like, oh, can I use your bathroom? He comes out and he's like, oh, Kate, you might not want to go in there for a little while. Like, they're in very different places, 1,000%. And he doesn't recognize, in giving the mixtape to her what she's going to think about it. He's like, oh, I'm gonna go make a tape for Prince, for Nicky and Rod, and tracking Monster.
- [25:55]
Matt Koplik
All the people. Yeah, no, he. He's doing what he thinks is a nice thing for his neighbors. And she views it as an invitation for romance. And what. I love the humor of that song of Kate Monster getting the mixtape is just sort of like what. What every song could possibly mean. It's like the first couple of songs all being about friendship. And she's like, shit. And then all of a sudden we get these Disney love ballads. I. There's some. This is where I find the show is just so funny. And part of it is in Stephanie d' Abruza's Delivery, which is. She's reading, she's singing the song titles. And we get to the part where all of a sudden we get the love song. She goes, oh, my God, my sharia. More. Oh, Princeton. He does like me, I am the walrus. Like, it's the bad bottom girls. It's just so, like, it. The way she just turns on a dime. Just like. And I always viewed it as, like, her confusion because some people, when I talk to them about this song and they get to that part, they're like, I think her confusion is just how random the next song is. I'm like, I think her confusion is that she thinks that he thinks she's fat. Right?
- [27:02]
Sam Semock
Yeah, that's. Yeah, that's totally.
- [27:04]
Matt Koplik
That's. Yeah, that's how I always viewed it because they also make jokes about her size. And so I always Thought that was very funny. It's just like. And again, as you said, she's projecting, so, like, every song must mean something. And to him, he's like, no, I just, like, made a collection of songs that I thought you would like. Especially when, like, there's two different moments where he gets excited about one song and she doesn't give a shit. And she gets excited about the song. Yeah. She gets excited about My Heart Will Go on, and she's like, I love Titanic. Is. It was all right.
- [27:32]
Sam Semock
It was all right.
- [27:34]
Matt Koplik
It was all right. And then. And then Billy Joel, Good Night Saigon from the Russia concert. And she's like, cool. Yeah. So they're not on the same page in any way, but it. But that is very relatable in a lot of ways. I think we all have had that moment where, you know, we think we've been given, like, a grand gesture, and in reality, we've just been, like, given a minor compliment from a sort of friend.
- [27:59]
Voice Actor (performing songs)
Let's see. You've got a friend. The theme from Friends. That's what friends are for. Shit. Oh, but look. A whole new world. Kiss the girl, My Sherry Amore. Oh, Kristen. He does like me. I am the walrus. Fat bottom girls. Yellow submarine. What does this mean?
- [28:30]
Matt Koplik
The more I talk, the more I realize I'll probably just die alone. Which is fine. Which is fine. I'm. I'm great company. I like me. But, you know, it would be nice to share me with someone else. Don't you agree?
- [28:45]
Sam Semock
Yeah. And I just hope it's not a cat.
- [28:48]
Matt Koplik
Cats.
- [28:48]
Sam Semock
If you. If you're. If. If you're at the end of your life and you're in your apartment alone, A dog. A dog will eat you, too, you know.
- [28:55]
Matt Koplik
A dog will. Absolutely. They'll at least lick me first.
- [28:58]
Sam Semock
Yeah, they'll. They'll try.
- [28:59]
Matt Koplik
Yeah. He'll kiss me before he has his dinner. Whereas cats are just like. And what? I. I can't get on board with the cats. But, yeah, there's. I mean, so. God damn it. We're all over the place. I don't fucking care. Oh. Actually, before. Before we get back, what we have to do is take a break.
- [29:16]
Voice Actor (performing songs)
Billy, I'd like to dip it with you.
- [29:18]
Matt Koplik
How do you mean?
- [29:18]
Voice Actor (performing songs)
You're the top.
- [29:19]
Sam Semock
Yeah.
- [29:20]
Voice Actor (performing songs)
You're an arrow collar. You're the top.
- [29:25]
Matt Koplik
You're a Coolidge dollar. And we're back. That was such a wonderful break. Thank you so much, Sam, for your. For your patience as I went and baked a pie during my break.
- [29:37]
Sam Semock
That was great. This Is a great pie.
- [29:39]
Matt Koplik
Yeah, it's a great pie. Eat the pie. Eat the fish. Do you know what that's from?
- [29:44]
Sam Semock
I don't.
- [29:45]
Matt Koplik
August Osage County.
- [29:48]
Sam Semock
Bad theater kid.
- [29:49]
Matt Koplik
Bad theater kid. August Osage county is a great play, man. There's so many female roles for you. How much of the documentary did you watch of Show Business?
- [29:57]
Sam Semock
I literally. I watched all the Avenue Q parts, and then I was like, I should just. I should watch this whole thing at some point.
- [30:04]
Matt Koplik
Yeah, at some point you can watch it. It's a fun watch. The Avenue Q stuff is fun because so I. I know someone who is a part of that, like, critics table when they're at Joe Allen's and then they're at Sardis and all that.
- [30:15]
Sam Semock
And when they're like, how do you market this thing? Yeah, yeah, it looks like it's for kids, but it's not.
- [30:19]
Matt Koplik
Yeah. You have Michael Riedel of the Post, who, you know, waste of oxygen, as far as I'm concerned. They're talking about Avenue Q, and Michael Riedel's like, yeah, that thing's going to be gone by January and.
- [30:31]
Sam Semock
As opposed to 15 years.
- [30:33]
Matt Koplik
Yeah. Running for, you know, six years on Broadway and then another 12 off Broadway or whatever. But I mean, that's sort of the thing is, you know, every. Because it's so funny to watch how they turn. When you eventually watch the whole documentary, you have to kind of keep in check with what those critics are saying because they all turn on a dime as the season continues. Yeah, most of them.
- [30:53]
Sam Semock
Nice. Nice to remember that a lot of times critics, they always know what they're talking about.
- [30:59]
Matt Koplik
Yeah, Well, I. The thing is that. And people would used to always give him. And I don't always agree with his taste, but I would always give him credit for explaining very evenhandedly why he didn't like something. Was Ben Brantley. I didn't always agree with him, but he would say, like, here's why I didn't like it.
- [31:17]
Sam Semock
Right.
- [31:17]
Matt Koplik
And in that documentary, there's a moment where he talks about having a Q and wicked. And he's very. I mean, he's polite about both in the sense where he's like. He's like, avenue Q worked really well for me. He's like, I thought it was very successful. It really resonated. He's like, wicked. You know, I thought it was kind of dull, but he's not like, oh, God. Well, that piece of. It'll be gone by whenever he's like. It just didn't. That this is what I felt. Whereas Reed was like, I predict. And I'm like, this is why you're not an actual critic or have any influence Riddle. But, like, we have Wicked first three. No. Like, oh, I don't. I don't know. They've got a lot of things to work out, and then it ends up overriding the reviews. And they go into Tony time and they're like, well, clearly Wicked's gonna win. There's not. Like, there's nothing that's gonna beat it. And when Avenue Q. Avenue Q, I think, was the first musical to open of that season because it opened at the end of July and, you know, came in with very low grosses. No one's really talking about it. It got all these amazing reviews, and they kind of had to ride it out for a while. And eventually they picked up enough stuff team where they were able to make back their investment right before the Tony Awards. But then we get to, like, when Caroline or Change comes to Broadway, and they're like, well, how are they going to market it? I'm like, well, I mean, Avenue Q starting to finally do well now. And they're all like, well, that's different. You know, that one's this kind of show. And then it's more commercial. And I'm like, you did not say that six months ago.
- [32:31]
Sam Semock
Right. You said it was the opposite of commercial.
- [32:33]
Matt Koplik
Yeah, they're real early is like, who do you market this to? The audience that they're trying to get doesn't see theater. I'm like, all audiences see theater if you can entice them to get through the doors. Yeah. It's so funny watching that documentary and seeing Avenue Q through that lens of as it was happening, because we look at it back at it now, we're like, yeah, that iconic staple of the Broadway catalog. And when it came on Broadway, it was, like, very controversial and risky, which is so weird to think about now.
- [33:03]
Sam Semock
Yeah, I mean, it's still. I think it's. And now we've gotten to a point where it's controversial again, but only because. Because I think we're in sort of the. The. The over correction stage of trying to sanitize a lot of things that. That people find offensive for whatever reason, even if they're offensive for the sake of being offensive, for the sake of satire.
- [33:27]
Matt Koplik
Yeah, no, absolutely. I think we're slowly coming back to it, but it's hard for a lot of people in our community right now to recognize nuance. And when something is in on the joke. Right. And people Also mistake being uncomfortable for being offended, which is. They are two very different things. I was reading this blog post from some British boy who tried to decipher how it is that Avenue Q beat Wicked for the Tony Award and why he thinks Wicked is ultimately the superior musical because Avenue Q makes fun of racism, whereas Wicked is truly about racism because Alphabet is green and she's treated differently for being green. And I read that and I went, sir, there's nothing you're saying about Avenue Q that Avenue Q is not aware of. And I. Honestly, Wicked is not about racism specifically. It's about prejudice in general. And then. But also, like, doesn't go. Sorry to be on the nose about this. Doesn't go skin deep about it either. It's. It's. It's a very shallow representation of. Don't judge a book by its cover. And in fact, I would argue Wicked isn't even about racism at all. It's about, oh, I had this immediate thought about you, but then I got to know you, and now I like you. Whereas Ebony Q was like, no, you might get to know me and still fucking hate me. Right. And it's not. And that won't have to do necessarily with my race. It's because I suck. And. And sometimes people really suck when their lives suck. You know, unhappy people cause unhappiness in others all the time. Which is sort of Princeton's whole arc, I would argue. Yeah, yeah.
- [35:08]
Sam Semock
You know, if you're talking about racism in the, in the show, you know, it is. It. It does bring up the idea that everyone is racist, that everyone, everyone does have racism a little bit at their core, which is, I believe, 100% true. And that's, you know, coming from an Asian American guy who grew up white area in central Massachusetts.
- [35:31]
Matt Koplik
People should have heard what you were saying before you were recording this episode. Like the things that were coming out of Sam C. Mock's mouth. I was like, my God, Sam.
- [35:37]
Sam Semock
Oh, yeah. Oh, man, I might as well be RT Bunker. Not true. It's not true. That is not true. But no, I think it's an important distinction to make in an age where we're sort of in this social media holier than thou. I've never done anything wrong, and my brain has always been 100% right and on the right side of history, which I don't think is accurate. I don't think it's realistic. I think that everybody should be a better person today than they were 10 years ago. They should evolve with the times and with education, with understanding. And I think that that's, you know, people. I remember in 2020, there was sort of all this uproar about Avenue Q on this mostly white Facebook group that I was. I was a part of. I forget what it was called. It was like a. It was a. Like an anti racist Ally Alliance Coalition thing. And some guy went off about Anne Harada, who's a friend of mine and a colleague, and. And I came to her defense basically being like, you know, who are you to call her complicit in racism because of her part in this show? But that's, you know, he was coming from a place of like, well, I want to make sure that I'm positioning myself to be the best ally that I can be. But in doing so, he actually took a woman of color and threw her under the bus behind her back.
- [37:13]
Matt Koplik
Yeah. Wait, this was a white person who did this?
- [37:16]
Sam Semock
Yes. Yeah.
- [37:17]
Matt Koplik
I forget. They can go get by a captain. Like, I. Jesus titty Christ. I. I have no time for overly martyred white people to come out and be like, well, as an ally, I'm like, literally, sit down and get fucked. Not your time, not your moment. Who cares about you. That being said, as a white ally. No, I also, I mean, also, maybe it's because as queer people, like, we've always kind of had to have a bit of a thick skin about ourselves and which allows us to have a sense of humor about ourselves. Like, that is sort of what drag is all about, right? If you can't. If you can't laugh at yourself, how the fuck can you laugh at anything else? And what I appreciate about, first of all, something I want to say about Avenue Q about these characters, and when people come for the Christmas Eve character, don't forget that bitch has two masters. She is a licensed therapist. She is a smart cookie. And when they talk about, like, the accent and all that stuff, it's. I mean, it's not. At least in my. When I watch the show, when they have that song, Everybody's a Little Bit Racist. And she, you know, berates Brian for not taking out the recyclables. And she says it in a way that everyone can't decipher it, and they laugh. And Brian, Brian, in Brian's defense, how many languages do you speak? Which is absolutely fair criticism. And then everyone else's response was like, we're not laughing at her. It was a funny moment. Back off. And then when he tries to be overly corrective white savior, he ends up being racist himself by calling her a super. And Then. But then the way the show has its cake and edit, too, is like, she berates him for using that word, and then he's like, okay, I'm absolutely sorry. And, you know, I love. She's like, I know you love me. He goes, great, but we should. We should acknowledge your racist as well. She's like, oh, of course I'm racist. And then she, like, blurts out her racism, like, yes, no one. We are all complicit. We are all racist. We all have our shit. So it's a matter of, like, not vilifying somebody for things that we recognize in ourselves that are absolutely there. It's about, like, as you said, learning, evolving, getting better. There is a drag queen from Drag race named Katya, and she said once, like, if you're not looking back on the previous year, totally embarrassed, you're doing life wrong. And I kind of view it the same way.
- [39:44]
Sam Semock
And, you know, I think, you know, would this show get produced in the same way today? Maybe not. But at the same time, I. I think that that would be a disservice because I think. Because. Because I think some things we can attempt to sugarcoat or sort of overplay our hands in some of these pieces now that are about racism. And it comes off as overly preachy in a way that is saccharine and not very palatable. And this one actually talks about it in a way that while some people can say, like, oh, well, it kind of. It allows people to be complacent and say, like, oh, well, everyone's racist. But that's not really what it's saying. It's not saying, oh, let's just. Let's all just chill the fuck out and be racist together. It's like, let's acknowledge that everybody has this. This part of us. Because it's just. Tribalism is inherent when you are an ape on a planet that has just rapidly advanced so quickly and is now becoming globalizing. It's, you know, globalizing and. And everyone's much closer than we were before, and people are racist. And if we. If we arrive there together as a jumping off point, then we can meet people where they are instead of, like you said, vilify them and say, like, well, as soon as I find out that you're a little bit racist, you're now an untouchable. And I can't. We can't educate each other. We can't talk to each other about these situations.
- [41:13]
Matt Koplik
We are all just toxic meatbags roaming this earth up everything. You might as well realize that now because it'll help you recognize who the actual destructors are. As someone who's never said or done anything wrong in his entire life, I can't necessarily relate to this number. But what I can relate to is that everyone is learning because I'm always trying. It's hard to learn when you know so much. But I, I, I do appreciate that others are trying to learn. Actually, speaking of Christmas Eve and her masters, something else that I really kind of like about this show is that so many of the characters, like, these are college educated characters. For the most part. It's like them being directionless. It's sort of the opposite of Rent, where it's not these, it's not a clash of characters who come from nothing and are trying to work against the system and characters who came from something and chose to abandon it for the sake of being bohemian. It's a lot of characters who, like, did the work, went to school, got the grades, graduated, have the student loans, and they're like, now what? And the fact that they maybe can't always make it. It's part on them and part on sort of just like the world and, and not having the answers anymore. It's a little Death of a Salesman. Y. If you think about it again, you're about dreams deferred and. Yeah, dreams deferred and all that shit. Raisin in the Sun. Death of Salesman, where it's like Death of a Salesman, the general concept is like the American dream is a lie. And they tell you, you work hard, you'll get rewarded. And Willy Loman is someone who worked hard his entire life and, like, has nothing to show for it. And it just, sometimes it just comes down to just pure luck that some people are in the right place at the right time and get the things, and some people just never will. And there's no rhyme or reason to it. Like, hard work and talent help a lot, but they are not the sole reasons. If they were the sole reasons, you know, there are some people who would have nine Tonys right now and some people who would be doing dinner theater forever instead of having a Tony Award themselves. But, you know, you have no sway over who Telsey casts. You know, they, they choose who they choose. But that's sort of the whole thing with Avenue Q is it's none. These characters are not dumb. They're not without, you know, insight. Just sometimes things happen or, like, they'll make the one bad decision that will lead a ripple effect into other things that may go wrong in their life. Like Kate Monster is a TA for a kindergarten class, and she unfortunately makes the bad decision from the Bad Idea Bears to have a Long island iced tea and, like, oversleep and lose out on her opportunity to teach a whole class the next day. Of course, that then leads to her dream in Act 2 with the. With the school for Monsters. But, you know, sometimes it's just. It's just sort of like bad. Bad luck. Luck of the draw kind of thing, you know?
- [44:09]
Sam Semock
Right.
- [44:10]
Matt Koplik
Yeah. Who. So would you want to play, Rod? Nikki? That's the role you said you want to play?
- [44:14]
Sam Semock
That's the one. Yeah. That's what I would want to play. Pretty Nikki Trekkie Monster. I already have, like, the Kermit the Frog Ernie voice, kind of. I have just a. Just a touch of it in my normal speaking voice. And then if I. If I sort of, like, add a little bit to it, then. Then I can really. I can sort of, you know, Rubber ducky. You're the one, you know? Can you say what's there?
- [44:35]
Matt Koplik
Can you say. Can you do. He's like, I love you, Rod. I love your little. Rod.
- [44:41]
Sam Semock
I love your little laugh. Nicholas, take off your shirt.
- [44:47]
Matt Koplik
Oh, Nicholas. Have we been fighting for one another? All those nights I lay in bed Shots of you running through my head. But I never thought.
- [45:00]
Sam Semock
Now. Now I know why I have this. I was thinking, oh, you know, Matt and I should definitely do this show. But I remember now. Now that I hear you doing this. I remember because we both had Michael Kreutz as a voice teacher in college, and we were at his end of the year soiree, his party that he would throw for all of his students. And I remember singing songs from Avenue Q with you and whoever else was. Was there at this party. Crista Buccilato and, you know, everyone else. And I remember you. I remember your Rod voice.
- [45:32]
Matt Koplik
Ah.
- [45:37]
Voice Actor (performing songs)
I'm getting what I've always been dreaming. So are you. Oh, baby fantasies come true I swear that when you want me I'm gonna be right there.
- [45:56]
Matt Koplik
When I was doing research for this, I was so surprised to see that Stephen Arimis did the arrangements for this show. I'm like, this is a relatively easy thing for an Arima show, but, yeah, I guess again, part of it has to do with the tone of the show. Like, this is not a show where you're supposed to show off vocally too much.
- [46:11]
Sam Semock
Right.
- [46:11]
Matt Koplik
Except for, like, Gary Coleman, which, speaking of songs that you want to play someone for the first time, I would absolutely play. You can be as loud as the Hell you want? When you're making love for my grandma. I think that is a song that would get her into this show like none other.
- [46:24]
Sam Semock
Also, I totally agree with that thesis. I think that's makes total sense.
- [46:28]
Matt Koplik
You can be as loud as the hell you want.
- [46:30]
Sam Semock
Yeah, 100.
- [46:31]
Matt Koplik
See, I like to be quiet. I want my partner to be so confused as to whether I'm having a good time or not.
- [46:38]
Sam Semock
I want my neighbors to be afraid that there's a murder in my apartment.
- [46:42]
Matt Koplik
Well, in a way, you are stabbing someone, Sam.
- [46:45]
Sam Semock
Oh, God. Bam. Wow. We should have known that a podcast about Avenue Q we'd go in this direction.
- [46:58]
Matt Koplik
We went in this direction. When talking about Pacific Overtures, I think the best theater you up. And I don't just mean, like mentally unravels you. I mean, just like you walk out, like energized in a way that's like. It's like it makes your skin feel like velvet. Whether it's the kind of elation you get from a pure joy show like Avenue Q or like the Producers or something, that just blows your mind because it's so audacious like Caroline or Change or Fun Home or it's just like the loveliest warm bath like Kimberly Akimbo, you know? Yeah.
- [47:31]
Sam Semock
Which I have yet to see. And I read your review and it really made me want to see it.
- [47:34]
Matt Koplik
Well, time's a ticking bitch.
- [47:37]
Sam Semock
I know. It is ticking.
- [47:38]
Matt Koplik
Yeah. This weekend you're still in New York.
- [47:41]
Sam Semock
Right now I'm in New York. I have. We start rehearsals for the tour on Thursday and we're here for three weeks.
- [47:46]
Matt Koplik
Okay.
- [47:47]
Sam Semock
I have my nights off for the most part. So I'm going to try and see some shows.
- [47:51]
Matt Koplik
Kimberly. 1,000% Kimberly. Yeah. Trying to think what else there is right now. Not much.
- [47:57]
Sam Semock
Yeah, so much. Just closed, like within the last week. Between the last week and a month ago.
- [48:02]
Matt Koplik
Yeah. Well, I mean, you guys closed, but you weren't there for that. You. You. You avoided that sadness by going out of the country.
- [48:09]
Sam Semock
Yes, I was in Thailand. That was nice. Although. Although that was sad too, because my grandmother was very ill. So, you know, it was. It wasn't just a vacation, but. But I was. I was eating my way around Bangkok, so, you know, which is okay. Speaking of. It's funny that. Speaking of things that hit differently in adulthood than they did when I was in high school, I was listening to this for the first time, you know, when Brian introduces Lucy, Lucy T. Slut, he says, you know, live from her. From her around the world tour, headlining In Amsterdam, Bangkok, and Celebration, Florida, which, you know, back when I first listened to it, I remember Celebration, Florida being like the joke. And it is the. It is the punchline. It is the. But not really understanding at the age of 16 or 17, the context of Amsterdam and Bangkok as well. You know, their. Their ties to, you know, just hypersexuality and the red light district in Amsterdam. District in Amsterdam. And obviously, you know, this. The sex trade in. In Bangkok, both like, you know, ping pong shows and the sort of. The stereotype there, which I did not. I don't. I don't go to that when I go to Bangkok. There's, you know, that's for. That's for weird tourists.
- [49:26]
Matt Koplik
We're so beyond you needing to, like, clean up your reputation right now. We're so far gone.
- [49:31]
Sam Semock
Yeah, no, it's. It's gone. It's gone. I don't go. I'm. I'm in then.
- [49:36]
Matt Koplik
I. I am the ping pong ball.
- [49:38]
Sam Semock
I'm the ping pong ball.
- [49:41]
Matt Koplik
I am so small and so white that I get mistaken for a ping pong all the time. And I just. I get used in those shows. It's.
- [49:48]
Sam Semock
That was your nickname in college?
- [49:50]
Matt Koplik
Well, yes, also because I got knocked back and forth all the time between frat boys. That is. I'm joking. Emerson had like one fraternity and they were all gay. Anyway, I will also say Lucy T Slot to her credit. She's regularly employed. She's. She is always working and she knows her. Yeah, Yeah. I have. I have nothing to say negatively about a woman enjoying her sexuality. Yeah. Looks at herself in the mirror and says, I enjoy sex and I will have as much sex as I want until I either have my fill or I can't get it anymore. Did you ever watch Gilmore Girls?
- [50:30]
Sam Semock
No, I didn't. I watched a few episodes. I dated a girl in college that was really into it, so I watched a few episodes with her, but I don't remember much.
- [50:38]
Matt Koplik
Such an ally. But there's an episode. I want to say it's season two or three. Somebody in the town dies. You know, it's a small town, so, like, one person dies, everyone shows up for the funeral. And Ms. Patty, who's the, like, head of the dance school there, she's like a bit of a heavier woman. She's very like. She's like Rue McClanahan and Golden Girls, you know, it's very much like I had. I had my flings back in the day. And she's with Alexis Bledel crying and Alexis Bladel's Rory is, like, very innocent, and she's like, oh, Rory, it's times like these, you. You look back on your life and you. And you're really grateful for the experiences you had. Thank God I had all that sex. And I'm just. And I'm like, I hope to look back and say the same.
- [51:20]
Sam Semock
Me too.
- [51:21]
Matt Koplik
Yeah. Yeah. Unfortunately, Jonathan Groff is no longer in Merrily We Roll along, so I can't have all that sex right now. I gotta wait till that comes back to Broadway. Yeah, yeah.
- [51:31]
Sam Semock
Only matter of time. When does that. When does that come back?
- [51:33]
Matt Koplik
Not till the fall, because they are edging me like a.
- [51:39]
Sam Semock
Well, hey, casting. I'll be back from woods in August, so.
- [51:42]
Matt Koplik
And I'm officially back with Equity. And listen, Daniel Rack is going to be out some nights. They're going to need another, you know, somewhat Jew in there. And I did Franklin Shep running senior year of. Of college.
- [51:53]
Sam Semock
Oh, did you?
- [51:54]
Matt Koplik
Well, sometimes Studio. Yeah, I wanted to do it first. And then Lefebvre said, why don't you try finishing the hat? And then I did. Finishing the hat. I almost made him cry. And I said, can I do Franklin Cheprank now? And then he said, fine. And then I did. I didn't make him cry because I think two things make that man cry, and it's not me singing, but I almost made him cry.
- [52:17]
Sam Semock
This is our. This is the head of our department at Emerson. A little inside baseball for you for a second.
- [52:21]
Matt Koplik
Yeah, yeah. Head of our department. He and I did not get along very well. Surprise, guys. I did not gel with every single person I ever met. I was. I was very opinionated. So was he. And he did not like that.
- [52:39]
Sam Semock
Because you need to have his opinions, too.
- [52:42]
Voice Actor (performing songs)
Yeah.
- [52:44]
Matt Koplik
So I'll say this, and then we can move on. Ironically, we talked about him as well on the Pacific overshoot episode when I cut. All right, we'll see.
- [52:52]
Sam Semock
Probably cut it, too.
- [52:53]
Matt Koplik
We'll see. If I cut this, I. God, I know I could never be in a culture because I was almost in a cult in college, and it was the cult of Lafeber. I remember. Actually, no, I remember the moment he and I weren't going to get along, which was sophomore year. We had just gotten our studio acceptances, and he was sitting pontificating to us one day in class, you know, cross leg, hand on the mouth like this, as you do. And he's like, kind of going through the Broadway actors who we should, like, take a note from. And, you know, Bernadette Peters Number one, always and forever. Bernadette Peters and Hunter Foster.
- [53:33]
Sam Semock
Yes. Sutton Foster. No.
- [53:34]
Matt Koplik
Yeah, No, I remember his opinion. Yeah, he didn't, he didn't talk about the Fosters. But I remember he said, well. And it's very casually goes, well, you know, there's Audra, who's not just really all about the voice. And 20 year old me sat there and my immediate thought was, oh, we're not going to get along for the next. I knew immediately I was like, oh, I'm going into studio angry. And I did. I. I went in. I remember, I remember he asked, he. And the way that Emerson worked, y', all, it used to be that, like, it's not this anymore. It used to be you got in and then you had two years before they did a cut program and you got into what was called studio, and it's more conservatory, like training, and you had to re audition to do it. And then once you were in studio, every semester, you kind of had a check in with all the department heads. And after my first semester of studio, all the other heads like, yeah, you're doing good work, whatever. And then LaFever was like, I don't know what you're doing here. I don't know why you're in this program. And I just sat there. I was like, because I don't agree with you. You don't understand why I'm here. Cool. And eventually we got to the point where he realized I was never gonna agree with him, so he might as well critique me on what I was trying to do and not what he was having me do.
- [54:45]
Sam Semock
Yeah, good, good.
- [54:46]
Matt Koplik
Yeah, no, it's great. But then I would watch all the, all the rest of my classmates have daddy issues and be like, daddy, do you like what I'm doing, Daddy? And I'm like, I like my father. Fine. I don't have these issues. This is my advertisement for not Emerson College.
- [55:04]
Sam Semock
Go, go.
- [55:05]
Matt Koplik
By all means, go. Listen to a man tell you that there's no point to Kristen China with. To which I say, you're wrong. He just didn't like people who sounded good when they sang. He was like, if you're really acting, you don't sound good. I'm like, no, you just don't sound good when you say so. You don't want anyone else to. But shocker. I think it's possible to do good acting and sound good.
- [55:27]
Sam Semock
It happens all the time with Audra McDonald.
- [55:30]
Matt Koplik
Audra has never sounded bad a day in her life, and she's never given a bad Acting performance once in her life.
- [55:34]
Sam Semock
Yep.
- [55:35]
Matt Koplik
So, you know.
- [55:36]
Sam Semock
Agreed.
- [55:37]
Matt Koplik
Yeah. Listen, she's. She's not perfect. She did Ohio State Murders, which she was lovely in. That show was just dry as a bone. But she doesn't pick always the best shows, but she's lovely in everything. You know what? She wasn't in Avenue Q, but she did win a Tony.
- [55:52]
Sam Semock
Oh, that. That we're talking about. Did we go on like a half hour tangent?
- [55:56]
Matt Koplik
Yeah, no. Welcome. Welcome to the pod Sam relevancy. I don't know her, so I never understood why they had a woman play Gary Coleman in this. But I guess that kind of goes with the Sesame street mentality of like, sometimes you have, you know, panto casting.
- [56:17]
Sam Semock
Yeah. And I, you know, I think I had read that originally they had actually approached Gary Coleman himself about. About doing this, and he was initially interested and then they scheduled a meeting and I think he, like, didn't show up or he lost interest. I can only imagine what the show would have been like if. If the actual Gary Coleman were in it. But yeah, I mean, she was fantastic. And I think also because. Because of who Gary Coleman is, I think it makes sense to cast a woman, someone with a higher voice, so that you can. You can still, you know, kind of sound have a voice in the same register. But yeah, that was just such a. So funny.
- [56:59]
Matt Koplik
They. They cast it with a man on the West End, which I want to know what that was like because. So pompous douche Cameron McIntosh produced it on the West End, and according to Jeff Marx, he had a lot of opinions on the show. Loved the show. Loved it so much.
- [57:18]
Sam Semock
Cameron Macintosh.
- [57:19]
Matt Koplik
Yeah, yeah, he. He had thoughts and he wanted a man to play Gary Coleman. And this show actually did pretty well on the West End, surprisingly, for a show that I find very New York centric. Yes, it ran for Interesting. Yeah, it ran for like three or four years on the West End, which is pretty impressive because it doesn't always work out that way. Yeah. Do you know them? There's another controversy with this show. When it was on Broadway, as you know, it won the Tony Award for best musical and best book and best score. And pretty soon after they won, they. So they ran on a Tony campaign. They ran a very aggressive Tony campaign to the point now that the Tony committee has had to make some restrictions to how shows can campaign because a lot of people thought that Avenue Q1 from being a little too aggressive.
- [58:07]
Sam Semock
They're like, oh, I don't know this at all. What was this story?
- [58:09]
Matt Koplik
Well, so, so the controversy goes two ways. First, there was their campaign, which was very aggressive, and, like, they wrote a whole song about voting. And it was Rod, you know, at the ballot box, and he's like, do I vote for my rich friend? Or. Sorry, I need to do my rad voice.
- [58:22]
Sam Semock
Oh, Nikki.
- [58:23]
Matt Koplik
Oh.
- [58:23]
Sam Semock
Oh, Nicholas.
- [58:24]
Matt Koplik
It's like, do I vote? No, not. My route's just gonna be on Carol Channing. God damn it. He's like, do I vote for my. Do I vote for the rich person or do I. Or do I vote for the one who's smart? My smart friend, or do I vote for the hot guy? Meaning, like, do I vote for Hugh Jackman, Caroline? Or Change or Wicked? It's like, what if I voted with my heart? And so their campaign was vote for your heart. Vote with your heart. And they hosted parties for Tony voters, and they kept implying that they were going to tour. So they win, and then they announce, oh, we're not going on tour. We're going to open in Vegas. And a lot of Tony voters are, you know, manage road companies and whatnot and house national tours in their, you know, home states. And they were really pissed because they were like, we were.
- [59:07]
Sam Semock
We were not talking. There's a conflict of interest in Tony voting.
- [59:10]
Matt Koplik
Well, I mean, it also leads to this. There's. I mean, there is a. There's a myth that's not really true. When people ask, like, oh, what's going to win the Tony? It's like, well, they're going to pick what's going to be easiest to tour. But that implies that, like, the road voters are the majority of Tony voters. They're not. They make up, like, 15 of the votes. They can help sway decisions if things are sort of on the fence, but they do not make up the overwhelming majority. And you could also argue that they would give votes to the show that might be a little harder to tour by saying, like, well, if you win Best musical, it'll be easier for you. Which is what a lot of people thought with, like, Kinky Boots was, you know, oh, this show could use the boost on the road because the subject matter might be difficult to sell in the Bible Belt. But if we say, hey, it won a bunch of Tony Awards, maybe you'll like it.
- [60:01]
Sam Semock
And it's probably one of the more important things to tour through the Bible Belt.
- [60:05]
Matt Koplik
Yeah. I mean, I don't know how many minds they actually changed, but I'm. I'm sure. I'm sure that Jesus freaks were not super offended as opposed to, you know, they were probably mildly offended, not superly offended. Avenue Q, though. They kind of implied they would tour, and then they announced that they were going to Vegas, and a lot of the road voters were pissed. And then they did eventually tour about two years later because they went to Vegas and they bombed hard. It was one of those moments of being humble where you think that you're bigger than you are because they finally, at that point, became like, a huge hit in New York, and everyone was talking about them, and they usurped Wicked and David versus Goliath, and like, oh, great. Like, everyone's talking about Avenue Q. We are going to sell like gangbusters in Vegas. And I don't know if you've ever been to Vegas, but the shows that go on there, people could care less. Unless you're Cirque du Soleil. Unless you're Barry Manilow. Like, Phantom did relatively well there. Mamma Mia did well there. But, like, I saw Jersey Boys there with my dad because I was too young to go to the casinos. And, like, Jersey Boys was in the prime of its popularity, and that theater was a third full, and people were walking up and down the aisles to go to the bathroom the entire time. I can only imagine Avenue Q. Everyone was like, why? Why would I go?
- [61:15]
Sam Semock
Right? It's like, it's a ticket you get when you sat at the blackjack table for two hours, and they're like, oh, here you go.
- [61:20]
Matt Koplik
Yeah. Oh, you. You lost bucks, but here's a coupon to see Avenue Q instead. Right? And yeah, it's. So they. They did eventually tour, but, like, that was one of the major controversies with them was the Tony campaign and then the lack of national tours, which ended up working out in the end. And then when they did close on Broadway many years later, they moved to New World Stages, where they ran for another 10 years. Also another. So you. There are actually two into the woods connections with you on this show, although I don't know if you worked with the other one. You have Ms. Harada, if you're nasty, playing your onstage mom anytime you're on for Jacques. Were you. Was Amy Garcia in Into the woods at all when you were in it?
- [62:01]
Sam Semock
She was not. So they actually played the same role. And Amy is coming back for the tour. Anne is not going out on tour.
- [62:07]
Matt Koplik
I I with. With you guys over there. It's. I mean, it's like a key party because it was like, I didn't know who was in for two weeks and who was out for two weeks because it'd be like, SJB is like, I'm in it until January, actually, except for this one week in November and this one week in December. Oh, and by the way, such and such. So I'm always like, I don't know what swing party y' all are doing over there where it's like, you tag team and out.
- [62:27]
Sam Semock
It's real hot, Matt. It's real hot over there.
- [62:30]
Matt Koplik
Milky White is a cum whore. How else did she get so white.
- [62:34]
Sam Semock
That, hey, she'll only milk for me? He's giving up. He had to give up.
- [62:42]
Matt Koplik
I threw my mic. Like someone who throws their shoe. I simply. Guys, have you ever been so angry at someone you know, but unfortunately, you can't punch them because they're through a screen.
- [62:57]
Sam Semock
Don't break your computer.
- [62:59]
Matt Koplik
That's not racism. That's hetero hate. I hate Sam C. Mock because of his straightness so much. So very much.
- [63:07]
Voice Actor (performing songs)
You're not allowed to be loud at the Lovely at the art museum or at a play, but when you and your partner are doing the nasty, don't behave like you're at the ballet.
- [63:28]
Matt Koplik
You know? What's that whole, like, Fantasies Come True number with. With Rod and Kate? I know, like, there's a lot of humor to it in sort of the fantasy of it all, but it is a really sweet song.
- [63:37]
Sam Semock
It's a really sweet song. I was listening to it earlier and was just. I was like, man, this is such a good song. Yeah. So well written, so sweet, so beautiful for it also being comical and, you know, him leaning hard into the fantasies.
- [63:57]
Matt Koplik
And then you find out that the whole thing was a dream.
- [64:00]
Sam Semock
That's so sad.
- [64:01]
Matt Koplik
It is so sad. Good night, Nikki. It's. It's like, it breaks my heart. Which then also leads into one of the funniest songs of the show, while also kind of being heartbreaking, which is my girlfriend who lives in Canada.
- [64:18]
Sam Semock
It is. It is heartbreaking.
- [64:21]
Matt Koplik
Yeah, it's such. It is. It might be the best song of denial ever. At least in my personal opinion. Like, I'm trying to think of, like, there are songs in the Soundheim canon that deal with denial, but they deal with it in a way that's, like. I don't know. They're. They're more sort of like in the middle ground. Like, um, I always talk about with In Buddy's Eyes from Follies, how it's. Sondheim calls that song a lie. And I always counter it's not really a lie. It's just a lie to the person singing it. Because the whole Song of Sally being like, oh, and Buddy's eyes. I'm beautiful. And sometimes like, well, she's lying. I'm like, no, he does think she's beautiful. She's just so hung up on Ben, she can't see that her husband actually loves her, which is, you know, talk about wasting your life pining for one person when you've got fucking, you know, pillar of support next to you. Point is, my girlfriend who lives in Canada, start to finish lie, there's no truth in any of it. And it's from Rod almost being outed by the entire group. He tried to confess to Christmas Eve earlier that he might be homosexual, but talks about through a friend. Do you remember this moment?
- [65:24]
Sam Semock
I don't remember this, no.
- [65:25]
Matt Koplik
No. Earlier in Act 1. So before. So Act 1 ends at Christmas Eve and Brian's wedding, right? And earlier in Act 1, Rod confesses, confides in Christmas Eve, I have a friend who might be gay. And she's like, well, there's nothing wrong with that. Plenty of gay people have contributed to the arts and to culture. Like, so nothing to be ashamed of. Your friend has. Your friend has nothing to be ashamed of. And she's. She takes it at full face value. She has no idea that it's about him, Which I. Ties into the Sesame street thing. We're like, no one's really checking the nuance. And he goes, well, my friend isn't an artist. He's a Republican and a banker or an investment banker. And she goes, oh, well, you know, then you should tell him to stay in the closet because he's good for nothing. And like, okay. She's like, okay, Rod, I hope that was helpful. Bye. And so absolutely takes it to heart, especially because he's in love with Nikki and knows that Nikki isn't reciprocating. And he overhears at the wedding that Nikki thinks that Rod is a closeted homosexual. And everybody just wants Rod to come out. And rather than accepting the hand that is guiding him out of the closet, Rod buries himself even deeper. Commits so hard to the biggest fucking lie with this big old vaudeville number, my Girlfriend who lives in Canada, which is very funny. It's also very uncomfortable because he is. He's got such flop sweat the entire time. And something that is so brilliant in the stage show, you don't hear it on the cast album, but the stage show doesn't have a button, whereas in the cast album it does. Which after that, you know, final line, which I'll play for you right now.
- [66:57]
Voice Actor (performing songs)
Yes, I have a Girlfriend who lives in Canada, and I can't wait to.
- [67:04]
Matt Koplik
Eat her pussy again. The cast album ends with a bump in the stage show. John Tartaglia just says it, and there's no button.
- [67:15]
Sam Semock
That is the button.
- [67:17]
Matt Koplik
He's just. And it is so uncomfortable. Like, it is. It is 1015 level of. Like, I'm laughing because I'm so uncomfortable.
- [67:26]
Sam Semock
Well, what's interesting, too, is, you know, going back to, you know, comparing Christmas Eve and Rod here is that, you know, talking about Rod being sort of a. Like, a stereotype. You know, he's a. Oh, my favorite book, Broadway musicals of the 1940s, you know, but, you know, when you look at where we are in history, George Bush is president, you're having the conversation about gay marriage versus civil unions. And, you know, this show comes out of that era, and so we can. We can talk about, oh, you know, this is offensive, or this is offensive, but this is a response. This is a satirical response to what's going on in the world and what's going on in the country. And for Rod to have this conversation with his roommate about, you know, are you gay? Like, if you were gay, it'd be okay. Is something that a lot of people weren't hearing in 2005.
- [68:17]
Matt Koplik
Yeah, 2000. I mean, actually. I mean, 2000. Three really is three. That's when it first came out. I came out. So when I came out, I came out at 14, but I came out as bisexual, as many of us did. And because the concept to a lot of us at that time was like, if I'm bi, there's still the possibility of being with women. So, like, oh, the fact that there's a queer component to my sexuality is less intrusive to you because, hey, by the way, like, women are still an option. But after three months, I was like, I mean, we're all. We've all accepted that, like, I'm just gay, right? Which is harmful now because there are actual bisexual, pansexual, asexual, gender fluid, sexually fluid people. And, I mean, I think the people who kind of have issues with it are the people who, like, don't want to think about all the facets to sexuality. Like, can't there just be two things? I'm like, unfortunately, no. I'm so. I'm so sorry that the world is more complicated than you would. Like, maybe we should have a. An Avenue Q song for you about sexuality. But, yeah, I mean, it's still kind of that way for a lot of people. I mean, I. Sam, I could tell you stories. But they're like people today who you would think, like, would be much more comfortable with their sexuality in this day and age. Especially, like, with. With the support systems that we have now and the vocabularies we have now who just are not. Who are not willing to, like, actually accept anything about themselves that could set them free. Because the other hard truth is, like, once you accept something that will make you feel less burdened, there are then other burdens that come your way, whether you're. Whether you're gay or whatever. And, you know, things like race or gender are things that people see. Right. And that's something you just kind of have to deal with every day. But sexuality is something you can kind of hide behind a bit. People don't have to necessarily know what it is you're about. And if there are things you can do to make your life easier, a lot of people are going to do it.
- [70:15]
Sam Semock
Yeah.
- [70:15]
Matt Koplik
And I think that's sort of where Rod is at, is like, well, I'm going to do the thing that makes my life easier. And straight is the norm. And there's so many things I can get by being straight. So here we are.
- [70:26]
Sam Semock
Which is one of the. One of the great journeys in Avenue Q is. And so many. There are so many lessons in Avenue Q, right, About. About what you expect out of life and what you should get out of life and what you'll actually get out of life. You know, it might not actually be anything that you think you deserve. And him, you know, he's trying for the entire show to be this version of himself that he tells himself that he has to be. And it isn't until the end that he finally comes out. And the world's. And, you know, his world is a little bit brighter for that, you know? And now. And now Christmas Eve has a client and Brian has a job. And it's not like their world has changed forever. Like, having one client as a therapist doesn't make you successful, but it's a.
- [71:11]
Matt Koplik
Step in the right direction, 1,000%. I think the show would be too much if everything changed immediately for the better. Especially, like with Kate Monster School. Like, she. She gets the school, but it's not like it's this immediate success. It's, you know, it ends with her just getting it. And, like, the next step is she's got to start it now. Yeah.
- [71:29]
Sam Semock
She's got to build it.
- [71:30]
Matt Koplik
Yeah.
- [71:31]
Sam Semock
You know, Princeton helps her get the money for it. And he does this. This pseudo heroic thing for his friend that he. Over that you know, in a. In an attempt to help her out and also potentially win her back as a romantic partner. And then, you know, he's like, so, what do you think? You want to give me another chance? And she's like, you know, let's take it one day at a time.
- [71:55]
Matt Koplik
Yeah.
- [71:55]
Sam Semock
And it's not. It's not the traditional Broadway story of like, oh, you saved me. Thank you so much. You've done everything. Now be my husband. You know, it's. It's. Let's. You know, I'm still hurting from this thing that happened. Maybe we can start out being friends again. And that's just. That's very adult, and it's very real and human.
- [72:15]
Matt Koplik
Yeah, he really hurt her. And it's not only because not only does he break up with her at the end of act one at the wedding, after she rips the bride's bouquet out of a child's hands, which I love, she goes like. She comes off. She comes back on stage like Prince and I caught the bouquet, actually, a little girl did, but she wasn't very strong. I just love that. Plus, she's also a monster. And there's a lot of talk about sort of the prejudice against monsters. And he realizes, I need to find my purpose. I can't be distracted. And so what happens at the top of Act 2 is he finally goes out of his apartment, runs into Lucy T. Slut, and just goes home and has sex with her. Running into Kate. And she's got a great line where he's like. She's like, oh, I see you made a friend. Is her name purpose? Because the whole reason they can't be together is because he was trying to find his purpose. He's like. She's like, oh, you found a friend. Is her name purpose? And that's what leads her to have the song with Christmas Eve about, like, how can I love him so much and still want to punch him in the face? And Christmas Eve is like, welcome to love, bitch.
- [73:21]
Sam Semock
Right?
- [73:21]
Matt Koplik
One of the greatest.
- [73:22]
Sam Semock
You are in love. Yeah.
- [73:23]
Matt Koplik
One of the greatest love songs. The more you love someone, the more you want to kill them. And also another great line where you go when she and Kate monster are singing, sort of duetting with each other. And it gives me a little bit of every day, a little death, but sort of Sesame street esque, which is love, love and hate. And hate. They like two brothers. Brothers who go on a date who what? Who what?
- [73:53]
Voice Actor (performing songs)
They like two brothers who go on a date who what? Where one of them goes, one Photos you inviting them, he also bringing sorrow. Yes. The more you love someone, the more you want to hear it.
- [74:20]
Matt Koplik
The. The two go hand in hand. Like you. When you get with somebody, you think you're signing up for just love. That is never truly the case, granted. You know, it should be more love than hate. It should be more smooth sailing than work. It should be more joy than pain. And I will also say this. I've talked to this before on the podcast, something that I like. The Avenue Q kind of gets back to. And why it's good that Kate and Princeton sort of take it one day at a time is like, we see these turbulent relationships in musicals and in rom coms. Like, will they, won't they? The passion that prevails. And, like, it kind of. It glamorizes those relationships in a way that I don't appreciate, because that is not how relationships should work. It should never be like, oh, God, we went through another turmoil, but we're back and better than ever. I'm like, no, you should not be going through six turmoils a year. Like, that is. That is what we call toxic. Sweetheart and Princeton and Kate go through their very first turmoil that leads to a breakup. And her response when he tries to get back together with her, as you said, is not like, absolutely, let's go for it, but more like, let's go slow, because that can't happen again. And we. I want to make sure that, like, we're, you know, at a steady pace, which I appreciate. Also me. Princeton's fresh out of college, so the world is big and new to him, and he's young and stupid and well hung, so he thinks that it's all about the drama. And Kate monster, you know, call her a real housewife because she's not about the drama. Yeah, I think. What else? I mean, we haven't. There's so much we haven't talked about. We haven't talked about Schadenfreude. We haven't even really discussed the Bad Idea Bears all that much. And there are some of my favorite side characters. Mrs. Thistletwat. She's a great bit. Internet is for porn. We haven't talked about that.
- [76:06]
Sam Semock
Oh, Internet is for porn. Yeah.
- [76:07]
Matt Koplik
Yeah.
- [76:08]
Sam Semock
Some of my. Some of my favorite rhymes in the show are in there. I think just because I'm a juvenile.
- [76:14]
Matt Koplik
Grab your dick and double click.
- [76:15]
Sam Semock
Oh, so good.
- [76:16]
Matt Koplik
So good.
- [76:17]
Sam Semock
You can just see them sitting around the piano like, oh, that's great. Yeah.
- [76:21]
Matt Koplik
Oh, yeah.
- [76:21]
Sam Semock
Just writing. Just tons of them. I would love to see the list that they came up with that. Didn't make it. I'm sure there's a ton.
- [76:29]
Matt Koplik
Oh, it's so good. It's fun to watch the bootleg of that original company because a lot of comedy comes from the element of surprise. Right? So it's an audience that, like, I'm sure they looked at the program before the song, before the show began and might have seen like the song list. But you don't expect that where the song is going to go when you are watching it and not looking at your program. Because it's Kate starting her lesson and it's very, you know, very classical music. And it's about the Internet. I'm going to do something. A whole lesson about the Internet and how great it is. And Trekkie monster just pops right on in and it's like, nope, the only thing that makes it great is porn. And this is. Again, it's 2003. Oh, boy. Did the Internet porn age develop in the following 20 years?
- [77:13]
Sam Semock
Like, I don't know anything about that. What do you mean? Just kidding.
- [77:17]
Matt Koplik
I know. No, I know. I know, Sam, but I'm. I'm not. I'm not playing that game. I act on stage, not in my life. So the, The. The porn that I was. That was made available to me at that age of the time when Avenue Q was being written, we're talking like 20 second clips that I had to like, like one scene chopped up into like six different 20 second clips that I would then kind of have to set up so I would watch. And then when that 20 second clip's over, like, okay, now the next 20 seconds so I could pretend it was a whole movie never. Or. Or you have Limewire or Kazam Bear share or something. Yeah. And you pray. You pray, suffering Jesus, that it's good.
- [78:03]
Sam Semock
Because you just have the. You just have the. The. The. You're just searching for something. You're like, okay, cool, I have a title.
- [78:10]
Matt Koplik
Yep. Yeah, I have a title. And I'm hoping. I'm hoping to the Virgin Mary that this is actually a good porno and not a virus or an advertisement for something or. It's a misleading thing because. Also because the way I discovered porn for your Lime Wire was I was trying to download episodes of Friends illegally. And I don't know if you know this, but there's a lot of porn with the word friend in it. And I thought I was downloading an episode of Friends. I was not. I was downloading something else. And that's when I realized, oh, you can get porn off of Limewire. And a new Trekkie monster was born.
- [78:44]
Voice Actor (performing songs)
Ready, normal people?
- [78:46]
Matt Koplik
Ready?
- [78:46]
Voice Actor (performing songs)
Ready. Ready.
- [78:47]
Matt Koplik
Let me hear it. The Internet is horrible.
- [78:50]
Voice Actor (performing songs)
Sorry, Kate. The Internet is horrible. I masturbate. All these guys unzip their flies for porn.
- [78:57]
Matt Koplik
Porn.
- [78:57]
Voice Actor (performing songs)
The Internet is not for porn.
- [78:59]
Matt Koplik
But, like, it's so interesting about I. You can connect it to Rent, Renton and Avenue Q. Because like, a lot of the reviews talk about, and we mentioned this earlier, at least I did, the, like, directionlessness of both shows. The characters in Rent are directionless because, like, they don't know what the fuck the world is or what they want to do in it. They just know that they don't like the system, man. Yeah.
- [79:19]
Sam Semock
And they're like trying to fight the system.
- [79:21]
Matt Koplik
Yeah. And Avenue is like, no, I have no problem being a part of the system. Just like, how the fuck do I get to be a part of it? And like, what. And what do I even do after that? I'm not trying to break any. I'm not trying to dismantle anything. I'm just trying to survive.
- [79:34]
Sam Semock
Right, because. And they kind of are in the system. They kind of are in like the. The day to day, live your life, buy beer, have a one night stand. This is. This is life in the city. This is like. This is. This is your life. And you're not actively fighting it. You're not. You're not like achieving anything great in it. That is the system. I have nothing more profound to say about that.
- [80:04]
Matt Koplik
Well, shocker to all of you American citizens out there. If you have a Social Security number, you're in the system. I'm so sorry to tell you, if you have a smartphone, you're in the system. They. It is not difficult for them to find you. The bad news is this is where it's the two pieces of paper, one in each pocket. It's very easy for them to find you. The good news is no one wants to find you. Your phone conversations with your cousin are not interesting enough for Biden to listen in on. I'm so sorry to tell you. You know, Bethany from Louisiana, they are.
- [80:39]
Sam Semock
Spying on you, but they're spying on you to find out what brand of backpack you're most susceptible to buying on Amazon.
- [80:47]
Matt Koplik
Yeah, yeah. And that's not Biden. That's pesos.
- [80:50]
Sam Semock
Yeah, exactly. It was the oligarchs who run our society, not the. The politicians who govern it.
- [80:57]
Matt Koplik
Exactly, exactly. But have you seen Avenue Q on stage? You haven't seen Wicked on stage?
- [81:02]
Sam Semock
I have. I saw it on Broadway. I saw. I Saw it at the Golden? Yeah.
- [81:05]
Matt Koplik
Yeah. When did you see it on the Broadway?
- [81:07]
Sam Semock
Oh, God, I forget. I was talking to my brother about this Tyler, and.
- [81:11]
Matt Koplik
Oh, hey, Ty.
- [81:12]
Sam Semock
Yeah, I was just talking to him earlier today was like, we saw it. We didn't see it off Broadway. Right. We saw it on Broadway. He's like, oh, yeah. That was, like, one of the first Broadway shows that I saw. It was one of the first ones I saw in a smaller theater because we had seen, like, Beauty and the Beast and Gypsy and 42nd Street. Yeah. But this was. This was like. This we saw at the Golden. I think it was, you know, years into its run. I just loved it. I thought it was so great.
- [81:38]
Matt Koplik
I remember because it closed pretty early in my freshman year at Emerson, and someone in my class, as it was closing, like, went down to New York to see it, and she'd never seen a Broadway show before. And I remember she came back and she was like, you know, I'm so surprised. You know, I thought Broadway theaters were gonna be these, like, huge theaters, but, like, where Avenue Q was is so much smaller than the Majestic at Emerson. I was like, oh, no. I'm like, that is not representative of all Broadway theaters, believe me. But she was.
- [82:05]
Sam Semock
But it is also. It is interesting, too. Like. Like having been on tour and having been on Broadway, it's interesting to get out on stage on a Broadway house. Whether, you know, I did Carousel in the Imperial and the woods at the St. James.
- [82:21]
Matt Koplik
Humble Bragg.
- [82:22]
Sam Semock
Humble brag. Humble brag. But. No, but you look at these. You go out in these theaters, and you assume that Broadway theaters are enormous, that you're. You're. You know, it's Carnegie hall or something. And it's not. It's. You know, it's 2000 seats. It's 2500 seats about. And, you know, if you.
- [82:39]
Matt Koplik
For a Broadway house.
- [82:41]
Sam Semock
Yeah.
- [82:41]
Matt Koplik
It's not 2500 seats.
- [82:43]
Sam Semock
What is it?
- [82:45]
Matt Koplik
The. The St. James, I think, is 17. The Imperial, I think is 15.
- [82:49]
Sam Semock
Oh, yeah. See? So. So that's even. That's even less than I said. But, you know, you go to some of these touring houses, the Ohio Theater or something, and it's. These are like 4,000 seat houses.
- [82:59]
Matt Koplik
Yeah.
- [82:59]
Sam Semock
Or an arena, like a Kansas City Starlight or something. I forget how many. 8,000 or something. And so even, you know, even the St. James is less than 2,000, and the golden is much less than that. How much is how many? How many?
- [83:16]
Matt Koplik
I think the golden is about 800 seats. Something like that.
- [83:19]
Sam Semock
Yeah.
- [83:19]
Matt Koplik
Yeah. And also not even that, like, some theaters can seem big in the house, or you look at the stage, like, wow, what a huge stage. And then if you ever go backstage at some of these theaters, like, the backstage situation is crazy. Like, the St. James I know, has a very shallow wingspace. The Imperial has no wing space. I don't know how. Actually, I do know how lame is managed in there. But, like, the only Broadway house, The only two Broadway houses I know for a fact have, like, actual wingspace, are the Lyric, where Harry Potter is, and the Beaumont. And that's because both of those are relatively newer theaters and were designed to specifically house, like, lots and lots of scenery. No other theater is like that.
- [84:01]
Sam Semock
And the Beaumont, for being a Broadway theater, is not in. In Times Square. It's not like it's not what you think of when you think of New York Broadway. It's like, you know, 20. It's 20 blocks away up in, like, this big block where they. They had all the space to do whatever they wanted with.
- [84:18]
Matt Koplik
Yeah, well, the. I. I know I've mentioned this on the podcast before, but, I mean. And you've been to the Beaumont before?
- [84:24]
Sam Semock
Oh, yeah, yeah.
- [84:26]
Matt Koplik
The Beaumont was originally designed to sort of be like, our version of a national theater back in the 60s, 70s. And so it was like, it was never meant to house one specific show. It was supposed to be, like, you know, three shows playing in reps. So, like, Tuesday was Hamlet, Wednesday was Little Foxes, Thursday was Macbeth. And so it was mostly just going to be the thrust, and all the sets were going to be stored behind the thrust. And then that didn't really work so great because America's garbage. And we didn't want a national theater. And eventually Lincoln center, well, the public. The public owned it for a while, and then Lincoln center picked it up, and it became this whole thing of, like, how do we use this space? We've got this intimate thrust, but all this, like, giant backstage area. And eventually, over the years, different directors and designers have been able to figure it out. But, like, the fact that, like, there's that intimate thrust and then that football field behind it, that was not the original intention for that, for that theater. It just has become a happy accident that it worked that way.
- [85:22]
Sam Semock
I didn't know that.
- [85:23]
Matt Koplik
Oh, yeah. Oh, yeah. Oh, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. It's also crazy that, like, everyone gets their own dressing room with a heated toilet and closet space.
- [85:32]
Sam Semock
Well, the. The. You know, the principals do and the ladies ensemble do, but the. The. The men's ensemble, they. They go into the basement, and there's one giant ensemble room for all the men.
- [85:43]
Matt Koplik
Oh, I didn't know that. Do we call that the orgy room then?
- [85:45]
Sam Semock
Something like that, yeah. Talk to. Talk to any of the men about that and they might have some chips on their shoulders about it, I'm sure. Well, none of my friends sure.
- [85:55]
Matt Koplik
Never. Never. Not once. I don't know if. I don't think I know any men from the ensembles of Beaumont shows. I've only known the females, but I did our dear friend Caitlin Frank. Hi, baby. She made her Broadway debut at the Beaumont in Lady. And so we went into her dressing room, like, Caitlin, you're aware that this is not going to be your career on Broadway forever, right?
- [86:15]
Sam Semock
Swing. And then she learned the hard way.
- [86:18]
Matt Koplik
Yeah. She was like, oh, you mean not every Broadway house has a safe? Has a locked safe in the dressing room for me to hide my engagement ring in while I go on stage? No, Matt, I had no idea that that's how Broadway theaters work. She, like, gave me the biggest eye roll of all time. She's like, yes, of course. I know this is a luxury. And she doesn't give me eye rolls very often. Usually I give her once. That was the only time she was like, matt, I'm not an idiot. Like, I'm very aware that my heated toilet is a luxury. Oh, other fun fact, the music director of Avenue Q, Gary Adler, was one of the co writers for Altar Boys, in case you didn't know.
- [86:51]
Sam Semock
Oh, I didn't know that.
- [86:52]
Matt Koplik
Yeah. Just talent up the wazoo. We've got Gary Ather, we've got Stephen Oremus, Robert Lopez, who would go on to win another Tony for Book of Mormon and an Oscar for Frozen.
- [87:03]
Voice Actor (performing songs)
You may not know this.
- [87:04]
Matt Koplik
Jeff Marx and Robert Lopez had a bit of a falling out after Avenue Q. Oh, really?
- [87:09]
Sam Semock
I didn't know that.
- [87:10]
Matt Koplik
Yeah, well, I mean, I don't want to give all the details because they have been all very secretive about it. And anyone who's willing to talk has been only willing to talk off the record and in increments of information. But essentially what happened was, from what I understand, Marks was not the easiest of collaborators for everyone on Avenue Q. Jeff Witty was brought on to write the book. I'm not entirely sure how he was on who got picked because he was also kind of not really known, but he and Jeff Marx really kind of butted heads a lot on the show. Then they all won Tony's and all was well and good in the hood. And Trey Parker and Matt Stone of South park fame went and saw Avenue Q, and they're like, huh? If I ever. We were ever to write a broady musical, we'd kind of want it to be something like this. And Trey Parker loves musicals, and Matt Stone does not. And the fact that Matt Stone, like, saw Avenue Q and super into it was a huge compliment. So they met with Jeff Marx and Robert Lopez on writing a musical together, which became Book of Mormon. And Jason Moore, who directed Avenue Q, like, was the director for it for a while and rather early into development. Not, like, so early that nothing was done, but early enough that, like, the show wasn't in final stages yet. The general idea was, like, that marks kind of Jeff Marx dropped off of the show, and it just became Robert Lopez with Parker and Stone, and Jason Moore eventually left, and Nicola came in. But from, like, Mormon on Jeff Marx and Robert Lopez, like, don't collaborate anymore. And they collaborated on a whole bunch of stuff, like, small stuff. They wrote some songs for the Scrubs musical episode. They wrote, I think, for Sesame Street. They wrote for a movie or two. And basically, after Mormon happened, like, Robert Lopez just started flying free. And it's like one of those things where no one knows exactly what happened. And I think that's sort of part of the deal because Marx gets some royalties from Mormon for keeping his silence. But, yeah, it's like one of those. It's one of those situations where everyone's like, in hushed tones, do you know the full story? Do you know the full story?
- [89:10]
Sam Semock
Wow. Yeah, I didn't know that at all. And I thought, didn't Jeff Marx. Didn't he help write the south park movie?
- [89:19]
Matt Koplik
No, no, no, no.
- [89:21]
Sam Semock
I want to check this out. These are not sound effects.
- [89:25]
Matt Koplik
Mark Shaman wrote the music for the south park movie, and then I think Mark Shaman was gonna write music for them for team America, but that kind of fell out as well. But, yeah, because Jeff, by the time Avenue Q came out, like, Jeff Marx and Robert Lopez did not really have any major writing credits to their name. You know, they. They say in their Tony speech, Lopez was a temp, and Marx was an intern at Sesame Street. Like, they did not have careers. This kind of happened out of sheer luck and talent and hitting, you know, the right thing at the right time. But of the three of them, like, Lopez obviously has had the most commercial success with Mormon and with Frozen and then Disney stuff. Yeah, a lot of Disney stuff. And Witty. Jeff Witty has gotten work as a writer. He wrote the book for the Bring it On musical. He actually wrote Head over Heels at first before it kind of got overhauled by Michael Mayer later on. But he also co wrote the screenplay for can you ever forgive me? Which he got an Oscar nomination for. And he's done some other stuff. But like they. No one in the. In that original team has been a one hit wonder. But of the three of them, Jeff Marx is the one who's like, definitely lagged behind the most. And I'm not saying that to undermine his accomplishments since then. It's just of the three, like, obviously the more high profile stuff has gone to the other two. Yeah. And I mean, and that cast, because a lot of that cast was sort of half Sesame street people, half Broadway people, where everyone's careers have gone, have sort of dispersed based off of what they intend to do. Like, Rick Lyon had no intention of becoming a Broadway actor after Avenue Q. Like, he, he does puppetry and he has a whole studio where he designs puppets. And he, as you said, designed the puppets for this show and has probably overseen any, like, puppetry that goes into professional production since then. Tartaglia has done some Broadway. But yeah, like, of the original company, I would say, like Ann Harada probably has had the most like, Broadway success since then.
- [91:20]
Sam Semock
Right. I think Stephanie d' Abruzo sort of tried a little bit. She was in the. But then she went right back into puppetry and Sesame Street. She's done a ton of.
- [91:28]
Matt Koplik
She's done a. Yeah, that's really more her wheelhouse.
- [91:30]
Sam Semock
It's more her wheelhouse. But she was in. Did you see the. Did you watch Scrubs?
- [91:35]
Matt Koplik
Yeah. She's the musical episode.
- [91:36]
Sam Semock
She's the musical episode. She's the one that, that has the musical running through her head.
- [91:40]
Matt Koplik
Yeah. She's got the tumor.
- [91:41]
Voice Actor (performing songs)
I guess if someone doesn't love you back, it isn't such a crime. But there's a fine, fine line between me love and a waste of your time. And I don't have the time to waste on you anymore.
- [92:07]
Matt Koplik
Dawn is the Christine Daae of Buffy the vampire Slayer, cuz keeps getting kidnapped. Like, I don't know what it is. She keeps trusting disembodied voices. And I'm like, girl, don't trust a disembodied voice. No. And I said on my Phantom episode, people like to say, well, Christine has trauma because she's an orphan. I'm like, you know who was also an orphan? Annie. And Annie, if she heard a disembodied voice say, like, I'm going to give you voice lessons. Any warlocks would be, wear your legs. Wear your Arms. I don't trust you.
- [92:34]
Sam Semock
Yeah, yeah, smart guy.
- [92:36]
Matt Koplik
Chrissy Christine Dye. Just thin and dumb. Thin and dumb. That's all.
- [92:40]
Sam Semock
A real pretty. Real pretty. She can sing an E. Yeah, but.
- [92:44]
Matt Koplik
That'S Angelo Weber for you. Women are one of two things. They're either dumb virgins or they're evil whores. Which one is bad Cinderella gonna be. But you know what, Kate Monster? Neither. She's not a virgin or whore. She's. She's definitely had sex before because she knows to put her finger there for Princeton.
- [93:03]
Sam Semock
Yeah. She knows to keep it there after. He says you can't, and she goes further.
- [93:09]
Matt Koplik
She pushes that button to make him sing, and it's.
- [93:15]
Sam Semock
He says, you can't put your consent, Kate. But also, if you know what you're doing. I mean.
- [93:19]
Matt Koplik
Yeah, it's. She's just kidding.
- [93:21]
Sam Semock
Just kidding.
- [93:23]
Matt Koplik
Well, also, it's one of those weird things where, like, it's so weird to say it out loud because it does sound rapey of like, you. If you know they're gonna like it, you just kind of have to give them a little push. It's like, oh, God. But also, like, guys, it's simply a finger, and it's. And men's prostates are in their butts. So, like, come on. He just. He just hasn't tried it before. She just. She just got up to the. Up to the nail and that. She's like, at least let me get to the knuckle before you tell me to pull it out, you know?
- [93:53]
Sam Semock
Yeah.
- [93:54]
Matt Koplik
Avenue Q just never.
- [93:56]
Sam Semock
Nails just done.
- [93:57]
Matt Koplik
Yeah, she got it filed down. She's good. She's. She's Golden Pony boy.
- [94:03]
Sam Semock
Yeah.
- [94:03]
Matt Koplik
But Christmas Eve is not into the daddy talk with Brian, which I appreciate. Daddy talk is not fun in bed because, again, as I mentioned with LaFever, I don't have daddy issues. I have a nice conversation with my father every week. I don't need to call someone daddy in bed. I'm like, I have a father. His name is Peter Copley. You are not my daddy.
- [94:22]
Sam Semock
Yeah, it's fair.
- [94:24]
Matt Koplik
Just letting you all know.
- [94:28]
Sam Semock
In advance. He's gonna talk about pooping, and he's not gonna call you daddy.
- [94:33]
Matt Koplik
I'm gonna talk about pooping and not call you daddy. That should be on my profile for hinge.
- [94:38]
Sam Semock
Yeah. 100%.
- [94:39]
Matt Koplik
1,000%. We haven't talked about shot in Friday yet.
- [94:44]
Sam Semock
Oh, yeah.
- [94:46]
Matt Koplik
And my opinion might be the most iconic song of the show, if only because it taught me some German.
- [94:51]
Sam Semock
Yeah. Yeah. It's an important word.
- [94:55]
Matt Koplik
It is an Important word. Because this is where, Sam, we connect this back to the fake woke allyship. And how everyone's a little bit racist connects to Shot and Freda. When I talk about how we're all toxic meatbags, everyone's a little bit racist. And sometimes you do get a little pleasure watching someone be unhappy. Granted, it depends on who the person is.
- [95:17]
Sam Semock
Right.
- [95:18]
Matt Koplik
And when you see that they're a little unhappy, it's like, nice.
- [95:26]
Sam Semock
Yeah, it's a real. It's a real thing. It's a real thing. To pretend that it's not is foolish. I do love the. You know that it is a German word. Happiness at the misfortune of others. Oh, that is German.
- [95:42]
Matt Koplik
That is so German. And listen, I am Jewish, so I get to say that. But it is. Oh, yeah, it is. It is such a German word. I in this. In the same way that entrepreneur is a French word, you know? Yeah. I don't know. We're all capable of being petty and to. And to admit. To not admit it, to pretend otherwise, to try to sweep those sometimes less pretty emotions under the rug, just makes you a bigger monster in the long run, I think. And not. Not in an Avenue Q kind of way. Monster. Not a sweet monster. That's. That we're not racist towards. I mean, like, that would be racist. Yeah, yeah. I'm talking about a human monster. Yeah. Is there any character in the show that you think would be more beneficial as a puppet or more beneficial as a. As a live action person?
- [96:39]
Sam Semock
Oh, you mean like swapping them?
- [96:41]
Matt Koplik
Yeah.
- [96:43]
Sam Semock
Oh, man, I don't know. I think it's. I think it's perfect as is. This is not something that I would. I would fiddle with much.
- [96:54]
Matt Koplik
You don't want to Eva Van Hoffe this show.
- [96:58]
Sam Semock
Yeah. When I do it, it's gonna rain on stage and they're all gonna get injured as a result.
- [97:05]
Matt Koplik
Yeah. Rain blood, too, because that's what happened from the bridge. It was blood in that glass box of coldness.
- [97:11]
Sam Semock
Nibble. Rain glass, and then there will be actual blood.
- [97:14]
Matt Koplik
I mean, that'd be smart. That is art. Raining glass would be more pleasurable than network. So, yeah, go for it.
- [97:23]
Voice Actor (performing songs)
The world needs people like you and me who've been knocked around by faith because, wait, people see us, they don't want to be us, and that makes them feel great.
- [97:35]
Matt Koplik
Sure.
- [97:36]
Voice Actor (performing songs)
We provide a vital service to society, you and me. Shut up. Making the world a better place. Making the world.
- [97:50]
Matt Koplik
It's a fun show.
- [97:51]
Sam Semock
It's a very fun show.
- [97:52]
Matt Koplik
A lot of life lessons.
- [97:54]
Sam Semock
Yeah, I think so. I think, you know, the big. We talked about. We've talked about a lot of these songs. We haven't talked about all of them, but, I mean, the big life lessons are. I think the big life lesson at the heart of the show is in for now.
- [98:09]
Matt Koplik
Yes. Which is what?
- [98:12]
Sam Semock
Which is that nobody has anything figured out. You might not get everything that you think you're worth, but everything is only temporary, whether you're happy or sad. So enjoy the ride, because you're only on it for a short amount of time.
- [98:29]
Matt Koplik
Yeah, I mean, you know, that's also the Kimberly Akimbo effect that I discussed this in my own play, which will be winning a Pulitzer this time next year. But. Oh, yeah, there. There. There's a line that said, which is that happiness is truly a luxury just in general. And that's not like. That's not necessarily depressing. Fact. It should allow you to enjoy it when you get it, but also, no one's entitled to it because, I mean, just look at. And we've never been more aware of the world at large than we are now because of just information at our fingertips. So we see how so many people live around the world and people who are in much worse states than we are and people who are in much greater states than we are, and you realize that so much that we take for granted is a blessing, and then so much that we don't get is, you know, luck of the draw. And you just kind of have to make the most of what you have. You can always strive for better. You always want to, you know, you don't want to be complacent. Right. Never be complacent. But you don't want to look a gift horse in the mouth. You know, things that are bad are just for now, but so are good things, you know, every. So enjoy the good things and learn to ride out the bad.
- [99:44]
Sam Semock
Yeah. George Bush is only for now.
- [99:46]
Matt Koplik
I know.
- [99:47]
Sam Semock
Barack Obama is only for now.
- [99:49]
Matt Koplik
Barack Obama is only for now.
- [99:51]
Sam Semock
Everybody's only for now.
- [99:52]
Matt Koplik
Yeah. Everyone's gonna die at some point, believe it or not. We should just be blaring for now all the time. Everywhere. Everywhere, all at once.
- [99:59]
Sam Semock
Yeah, it's. It's. Honestly listening to it. It's just such a sweet and comforting song. There's something about it that it. It makes me a little. Not. Not, like, teary, but it makes me a little emotional. Makes me a little sad and a little relieved.
- [100:20]
Matt Koplik
Yeah. Well, I think that's because it is. It's a message song, but it's not preachy. It's what like, I. And I've talked about this before. It's why I cannot get behind literally a single moment of the score of Greatest Shaman, which is just. These hang in there kitty posters the size of a Times Square billboard.
- [100:43]
Sam Semock
Just meanwhile, you're sanitizing the life of a horror.
- [100:47]
Matt Koplik
Yeah, that's a. That's a whole other thing. I'm like, at this point, you might as well just create a whole other story because you have completely fabricated the life of this man who was God awful. But I'm like, turned it into a movie about be yourself, be yourself, be yourself. But all those songs I just find so generic in their mentality. And it's the. I call it the Bella Swan syndrome of, you know, Bella Swan from Twilight, where she's written in those books so blandly so every girl in the world can think that they're her. She's like, I'm pale and I'm clumsy, and those are the only things about me you'll know. And I was like, oh, she doesn't say anything about hair color, eye color, height, whatever. And it's the same thing with these songs from Greatest show where it's like, no one's like you and no one's going to be I, I am me. And that's just me. I've got mouth and I've got hands. This is me. Or it's like, I've got dreams, you've got dreams. The stars are in the sky and the ocean's in the ground. Dreams, like, it's just so generic. And I find for now it is very specific in so many ways. Because obviously we have references like George Bush, which I know that they changed at some point, but also it's not. It's not like, hang in there, Kitty. It's just very kind of matter of fact, like, there's. So. There's the line each time you smile. It's. It'll only last a while. Which is, as you said, like, it's sad and comforting at the same time. Because if the bat. If the good things are only for now, so are only the bad things. Nothing can last forever. So, like, you gotta make it through the storm at some point. And the only way for me to believe. The only way for me to believe someone telling me the bad stuff is only for now is if someone also tells me the good stuff is also only for now. You know, Don't. Don't just tell me what I want to hear. Tell me the truth. Because the things that will get me.
- [102:41]
Sam Semock
Through.
- [102:43]
Matt Koplik
Are the things that are like the hard truth. Right. My therapist, Colton, once said that we only have breakthroughs, and we accept the hard truths. If you only accept what you want to hear, you'll never have a breakthrough. And I feel like for now is a song that kind of does that. Like, it's. It is a hard truth told very sweetly. And hard truths don't have to lead to misery. They can lead to wonderful breakthroughs, like.
- [103:09]
Sam Semock
Just enjoy your life instead of agonizing over whether you're proving yourself to the world or not. And it also, you know, the. The very positive thing at the end of this show. And actually it's a. It's. The undercurrent of the show is that it really embraces community. It really embraces the idea that the people that you find yourself around can actually be your lifeline. They can be the. The. The. Your grounding rod. They can be the thing that holds you to the earth and keeps you from. From being depressive in your apartment. They can be the thing that. That when you don't know how to achieve your dreams, they go out and help you achieve them. Without you knowing. Yeah. You know, it's a beautiful message, and it's very real. Just rely on the people that you find yourself with and allow them to rely on you. And even though everything in life is temporary, as long as you maintain that sense of community, you're going to be all right.
- [104:16]
Matt Koplik
Yeah, but also, that's the other thing about temporary is like, so this thing is here for now. You don't know what's coming around the bend. Like something else that's really great will come along as long as. As well as something, you know, kind of shitty and that. I mean, there's. There's always something. It's, it's, you know, those. It's that I just said that to myself. And like, it's that one of those sentences where, like, you can say it either way and it's either a promise or it's a threat. Like, it's like there's always something. Or like there's always something and.
- [104:48]
Sam Semock
And that end up with. With your heterosexual roommate. He might go out and find an even sexier version of himself who looks very much like himself.
- [104:59]
Matt Koplik
Yeah. But with better arms and with a job and also wants to have sex with you. Isn't that the dream? Sam? I am simply out here in this world looking for the buffer, gayer version of you. And until I find him, I am simply not going to be satisfied.
- [105:17]
Sam Semock
You know. Have you met my friend Marcus Shane? Because he exists.
- [105:22]
Matt Koplik
Well, I will now. The name actually sounds extraordinarily familiar. Is he an actor?
- [105:28]
Sam Semock
Yep.
- [105:29]
Matt Koplik
Gross.
- [105:29]
Sam Semock
Currently in Aladdin on Broadway.
- [105:31]
Matt Koplik
Korean Latin.
- [105:33]
Sam Semock
Current. Currently in Aladdin.
- [105:34]
Matt Koplik
I thought he said Korean Latin. And I was like, well, first of all.
- [105:38]
Sam Semock
But he is Korean, you know. Well, he's Korean American, so.
- [105:42]
Matt Koplik
Amazing. Well, first. Okay, so he's an Aladdin. So I hope he's okay with the fact that when we date, I'm never gonna see him in the show. I'm golden. I don't need to see it ever again. There's. Listen, I have been so supportive of friends in their shows. I cannot see a show that I don't want to see more than twice. I simply can't do it anymore.
- [106:03]
Sam Semock
Nobody can blame you for that. I don't. I don't think anybody. I don't think anybody can.
- [106:09]
Matt Koplik
Sam, you know I love you. There's a reason I didn't see your Broadway debut.
- [106:14]
Sam Semock
I get it.
- [106:14]
Matt Koplik
I know. I. I feel bad, though. I wanted to see you in this, and I didn't because you joined the show just as everyone decided they were gonna go see it again, so I couldn't get TDF tickets.
- [106:24]
Sam Semock
Oh, yeah. Yeah.
- [106:26]
Matt Koplik
And I'm poor, so I couldn't do face value. I. You had the audacity to join that show when everyone gave a shit. Again, you didn't join in October when Sarah left, and I could get a ticket any day of the week.
- [106:37]
Sam Semock
Yeah. That was pretty cool, though.
- [106:39]
Matt Koplik
No, great for you. Let me be very clear. Your life is only. Makes only matters to me in regards to my life.
- [106:50]
Sam Semock
Hey. And that's. That's kind of a theme in Avenue Q2.
- [106:54]
Matt Koplik
Well, also, this shot in Freuda of me being like, I can't get a ticket to your show. That's reasonable. And you're like, ah, I wish I could say that makes me sad, Matt, but I'm in a show that people want to see.
- [107:06]
Sam Semock
Yeah. It's nice to have decent grosses in your show.
- [107:09]
Matt Koplik
Yeah. You're looking at me. You're like, so, Matt, have you thought about making more money? Have you thought about being more successful? Because I got a job when I decided to be more successful, Matt, it really worked out for me.
- [107:20]
Sam Semock
Right? That was. Yeah, that's how it happens, you know, you just set your sights on. On purpose, pick up a penny off the ground, and then before you know it.
- [107:29]
Matt Koplik
Well, before you know it, that same penny is gonna go through the skull of the woman you last had Sex with which, if I had a nickel for every time someone I had sex with almost died after or during or. Well, yeah, at this point, I'm running on fumes. So, like, I mean, you're not. I know. You're like, you're. You are a theater person. You like theater. You're in it. You're not one of those people who do theater, Sam. And it's like, I don't know. I don't follow it all that much, which I appreciate.
- [108:02]
Sam Semock
I'm some, I'm. I'm kind of in between the two. I'm not. I, I, like, I, it's like, I, I, it's like I play baseball and I watch some games, but I don't. I don't know the stats. I don't know who had the best. The best batting average in 1976, you know?
- [108:21]
Matt Koplik
Or should you. I'm not proud that I know this. I'm not proud that I can tell you all the best actress in the musical, Tony winners. Who the fuck needs that information? It's just weird how my brain works. But, like, you're not someone who, like, if I were to, if someone would come up to be like, oh, like, who's a favorite composer of yours in the theater? You'd be like, I don't know, man. I, I listen to Billy Joel. Like, that's.
- [108:42]
Sam Semock
No, no, no. I would say, oh, Stephen Sondheim. And here are my favorite shows of his. And here's the ones that I like the first act better than the second act or vice versa. So I am a nerd.
- [108:52]
Matt Koplik
Yeah, Well, I know. I consider that you being good at what you do, because I've said this before, I can't name you a football player. If you were to say to them, like, oh, who? Your favorite players of all time, they'd be like, I don't know, man. I just play football. I don't know anything about the sport. Like, right. There's. There are musical theater people on Broadway who are like, oh, I don't know. I don't listen to musicals. I don't know who any of these actors are. It's like, yeah, you. Because I think it makes you a better artist to know this.
- [109:19]
Sam Semock
And I think it's. It's sort of. I think that sort of falls. I think you'll find more straight men where that's a thing. And not to, like, not to, you know, put down my own category here.
- [109:30]
Matt Koplik
Someone's got to.
- [109:31]
Sam Semock
But, but no, I think, I think it's a sort of. It's a sort of attitude that comes from thinking that what we do is inherently childish or feminine. That it's like, oh, well, it's. It's lame to like theater, so I'm gonna. Nah.
- [109:49]
Matt Koplik
Yeah.
- [109:50]
Sam Semock
And it's totally fine if you. If you do something and you're not, like, that passionate about it. But I do think sometimes it is an attitude that's sort of put on to say, like, oh, yeah, I do musical theater, but I'm not gay, you know?
- [110:04]
Matt Koplik
Yeah. Or it's like, it's the. I do it because I'm good at it and I keep booking work, but I don't know.
- [110:10]
Sam Semock
It's.
- [110:10]
Matt Koplik
I. I've danced through life. I'm a Fiero and a sea full of glindas. And I'm sitting here being like, you are a pompous Brooklyn boy, and I hope you choke on some arsenic. But I say this just because, like, have you had conversations with people about these kind of things about, like, the Avenue Q versus Wicked sort of dichotomy of, like, the merits of two different shows and what. What one brings the table, what one doesn't, which one is maybe more worthy? Because that's sort of the. The fun thing about Tony Awards in the general, that they're not really real. No award is real. But there is a statistic you can point to and be like, this was awarded the best of the year. Do you agree? Because then that can lead to a whole other conversation. And some will say, I do agree, some will say, I don't. And then you can have that wonderful argument as opposed to, like, when you say, when two people come together, like, well, I think this show is better. I think that show is better. That's one kind of argument. But when it comes down to, do you think it deserved this title that we're referring to? There's, like, a meeting point, which I appreciate. Yeah.
- [111:13]
Sam Semock
Yes. I think that's. I like that. I do. I like having those conversations. And. And that's why I like being on this podcast. And it's. It's fun to. To nerd out about these things with you, Matt, because.
- [111:26]
Matt Koplik
Thank you.
- [111:27]
Sam Semock
Yeah. Because you. And it does pull me. It pulls the theater nerd in me out even further than. Than, you know, when I talk to most of my friends about it, like, my closest friends, most of them are either not no longer involved in theater or they never were professionally involved in theater. And so I. I do have these. These conversations once in a while, but more so with other theater folks and not necessarily with, like, My closest friends. And so I do, I do appreciate having these conversations.
- [112:02]
Matt Koplik
Well, also, because we have these conversations and yes, we get scholarly, but also we talk about butt stuff. And that is the only way to really talk about musicals, in my opinion.
- [112:11]
Sam Semock
I think that's the only way to talk about anything. I think there's, there's. I don't think you can take anything too seriously, but especially when the thing that you're taking seriously is like, you know, speaking until the emotion gets so great that you have to sing. Until the emotion gets so great that you have to dance. You know, there's only. There's only so serious that you can get about it.
- [112:33]
Matt Koplik
Yeah.
- [112:34]
Sam Semock
Before you can talk about poop.
- [112:37]
Matt Koplik
Yeah. Have I not told you the story of when I explained what poppers were to my grandmother?
- [112:41]
Sam Semock
No.
- [112:42]
Matt Koplik
Please. No, it's not. I mean, it's not much of a story. I was out to dinner with her and my cousin and my cousin said something and I made some random comment about poppers. And my now 99 year old grandmother, I think she was 93 at the time, she said, what are poppers? And my cousin said, excuse me, I'm going to go to the bathroom now. And so he left. And I was left to explain to my grandmother what poppers were. Luckily, Scott had ordered donuts for the table. So those donuts arrived and I grabbed the donut and I took a knife and I said, grandmama, you're aware how the homosexual has intercourse? Yes, because I know how that works. I went, great. Said so in case you didn't know, that can be difficult sometimes. I said, poppers are sort of like nail polish that you sniff. They give you a little bit of a high. But more importantly, they do this to the reciprocant recipient of the homosexual sex. I took a knife and I made a slice in the donut and I took the donut and I expanded it just a little bit so it makes that person a little more receptive to the pleasures of intercourse. I said, do you understand?
- [113:44]
Sam Semock
Without the. Without the incision.
- [113:46]
Matt Koplik
Without the incision.
- [113:47]
Sam Semock
Yes. Yes.
- [113:48]
Matt Koplik
It does not cut you. No, that comes from that. That comes from the stabbing that you get later, which we discussed earlier. Sam. Next. I listen, Next time you have sex, I. Because I know anytime that I have sex is all I'm thinking about. Next time you have sex, I want you to just think about yourself stabbing the other person over and over. Jack.
- [114:09]
Sam Semock
Oh, man. I hope that doesn't happen. I'm not going to.
- [114:12]
Matt Koplik
I hope you never have sex either. Either. I don't want that for you. Oh, I think the best artists are celibate. Hans Christian Anderson, man.
- [114:25]
Sam Semock
The best priests.
- [114:27]
Matt Koplik
Well, no, the difference between priests and Broadway actors is on Broadway, you're not always around children, so it's a lot easier to just be celibate and not problematic. Dramatic.
- [114:37]
Sam Semock
Right.
- [114:37]
Matt Koplik
Channel. Channel that sexual energy into your art and not into, you know, pedophilia. Pedophilia, yeah.
- [114:46]
Sam Semock
Yeah.
- [114:47]
Matt Koplik
Unless you're doing Doubt. But that child's never actually on stage. He just referred to.
- [114:51]
Sam Semock
Right, Yep.
- [114:52]
Matt Koplik
Yeah. Or I guess how I learned to drive. But again, that's Mary Louise Parker, not an actual child. That's. And that's acting. That's. Again, that's your art. We don't want to get into that part. The pedophilia might be the one taboo subject.
- [115:04]
Sam Semock
We can forgive some, like, some subtle racism that everybody has in their core. But let's. Let's not assume that everyone has a bit of pedophilia in them and. And forgive that.
- [115:16]
Matt Koplik
Did you ever. Did you ever watch Community?
- [115:20]
Sam Semock
I did not. I've seen a few episodes. It's another one that I've seen.
- [115:23]
Matt Koplik
It's a hard show to recommend because, like, it starts off okay and then gets amazing and then just gets terrible. But there's an episode with Britta at one point where she. Because, like, I can excuse racism, but I draw the line at animal cruelty. And Yvette Nicole Brown goes, you could you excuse racism? I feel like without you, Q, it's like I. It's like I can excuse all the jokes about racism, but I draw the line at pedophilia. It's like, you can excuse the jokes about racism. Fun times. No, it's a good show. It's a good show. And what makes it even better is that no one's a pedophile in it. In fact, there's no children at all in Avenue Q. That makes it even better.
- [116:03]
Sam Semock
Yep. Yeah.
- [116:04]
Matt Koplik
It's my one problem with Carolina Change. There are too many goddamn children in that show. I think this is a good time as any to close up shot. Because, God, if you and I. If you and I keep going at the rate we're going, we're not. We're not only. We no longer going to talk about Avenue Q, we're going. Who knows what the fuck we're going to talk about?
- [116:22]
Sam Semock
You're going to lose all your sponsors pretty soon.
- [116:24]
Matt Koplik
Oh, God, I probably lost all my sponsors years ago. Sam, before we close up shop, we have a game now.
- [116:33]
Sam Semock
Ooh. Game.
- [116:34]
Matt Koplik
We have a game. The first is called Six Degrees of Sally Murphy. The other game, and again, it's the same game. It's called who Lives, who Dies? Jeanine Tesori. And it's just Six Degrees of Janine Tesori. Now what we do is we take Avenue Q original cast and production team, and we have to find a way through Six Degrees to get to Sally Murphy as well as getting to Janine Tesori. So we can use writers, we can use actors of the original company, design people, and same thing as we do 6 degrees. So it can be like, oh, so and so is in this show designed by so and so who designed this?
- [117:10]
Sam Semock
I'm going to be. I'm going to be bad at this. You're going to help me, right?
- [117:12]
Matt Koplik
Oh, absolutely. Well, okay. We can get to Ginny Dosoris one, two Band pretty easily.
- [117:18]
Sam Semock
Yeah. I would say. Well, I would say I would either go for. From Avenue Q, if we're talking actors, I would either go Anne Harada or. You know, I see here that the. On the first national tour, you know, who played Princeton rod?
- [117:34]
Matt Koplik
Who?
- [117:35]
Sam Semock
Rob McClure.
- [117:37]
Matt Koplik
I know he did it on Broadway. I didn't know he did the tour. That's fun.
- [117:41]
Sam Semock
Yeah. So, like, oh, he did it on Broadway, too. Then I think, you know, he probably has a lot of, like, well, there are a lot of degrees.
- [117:51]
Matt Koplik
So I'll say this. In Avenue Q, we have John Tartaglia. We also have director Jason Moore, who, Fun Fact, I worked with right before Avenue Q moved to Broadway because he was the resident director for Les Miserables. And that show closed on Broadway in May of 2003. And when I closed, they did a sort of celebratory performance on the stage at the end, where they got together about 30 kids who had done the high school edition of Les Mis at that point. And we did a medley from the show, and we all got to represent different parts in the show. I was in it with Adam Chandler Barat and Kristin Milioti and Skyler Astin. Skyler played Javert and sang stars. I think Kristen and Adam were just the ensemble. I got to represent Anjara. Pretty cool. But Jason was a point of contact for us because he was the resident director for Les Mis. And then when Avenue Q opened a few months later, I was like, I met him. So Jason Moore also directed Shrek, which also starred John Tartaglia.
- [118:52]
Sam Semock
Oh, aha. And Junine Tesori.
- [118:55]
Matt Koplik
Yes, Janine Story about that. I mean, we could, if we wanted to go further, if you wanted to go deeper. Wanted. If we really want. If we really wanted to stab this game in the. In the lower intestine. If we really want it to feng shui. It's of kind. Guts. Is that not how.
- [119:12]
Sam Semock
Just rearrange. Yeah. We just need to make sure that everything. There's a lot of flow here.
- [119:16]
Matt Koplik
That. So it's not going to be. This is not tmi because Lord knows the next time I'll ever have sex. But should I ever decide to be the recipient ever again in my life, I know people like bottoms to say, daddy, I will not say that. In fact, I will go further and I will say, feng shui my guts, baby. And that will absolutely send them running. They'll put on their pants and they'll go away. And that is.
- [119:41]
Sam Semock
I don't know, they might. It might. Just saying that as soon as this airs, you might want to check your DMs.
- [119:49]
Matt Koplik
That's when John Tartaglia slips into my DMS. But no, he's going to be like, how dare you steal my line? But I mean, if we really wanted to kind of go deep, we could go further than Jason Moore or John Trio. We could go. If we wanted to do Anne Harada to get to Janine Tesori. Ann Harada was in Seussical with Casey Nicola, who was in Thoroughly Modern Millie that had half a score composed by Janine Desori. That is one. That is absolutely one. Or what's another show? And just on all the things. She was in Cinderella. Well, Harriet Harris was also in Cinderella and she did Millie. It's okay.
- [120:38]
Sam Semock
We've.
- [120:39]
Matt Koplik
We got Millie, we got Truck. We got plenty of Ginger Story connections. Okay? So this. I don't expect you to know Sally Murphy's theater credits like I do, so I'm going to give you a list of her theater credits and you tell me which one we want to end up with. The 94 carousel. The Lachiusa wild party. Fiddler. On the Roof with Alfred Molina, which was actually the same season on Broadway. The minutes. She was just in the minutes. Bernard. Bernard. No, but not Bernard Alba. No, Bernard Bernard Alba. Off Broadway or Man of no Importance Off Broadway. Broadway at Lincoln Center.
- [121:23]
Sam Semock
You know, let's go. Let's have a little fun. Go. Some cross. Some cross media here. Let's say Alfred Molina.
- [121:33]
Matt Koplik
Fiddler. Okay.
- [121:34]
Sam Semock
Alfred Molina in Spider Man 2 with Rosemary Harris.
- [121:42]
Matt Koplik
Wait, what?
- [121:43]
Sam Semock
Alfred Molina was.
- [121:44]
Matt Koplik
Doc.
- [121:44]
Sam Semock
Was Dr. Octopus.
- [121:48]
Matt Koplik
I know, I know.
- [121:49]
Sam Semock
Otto Octavius.
- [121:50]
Matt Koplik
I know. I might be the only per. I. Granted, I haven't seen the movie since it came out. I might be one of the few people that did not like Spider Man 2.
- [121:57]
Sam Semock
Oh, I. No, I didn't. Oh, no. I like Spider Man 2.
- [122:00]
Matt Koplik
Most people do. I remember laughing out loud when Kirsten Dunn said, and here I am standing in your doorway. I've always been standing in your doorway. And I'm like. I'm like, you're a creep. Yeah. Way to go. And like, way to. Way to co opt. Queer culture. Kirsten Dunst talking about Backdoor. But so. So you want me to. Okay, so you want me to get to Alfa Molina and Fiddler with Sally Murphy through Spider Man 2. That's what you want me to do?
- [122:25]
Sam Semock
Yeah. Well, so Rosemary Harris was in Spider Man 2. She was.
- [122:28]
Matt Koplik
Yes, I know she was.
- [122:30]
Sam Semock
Yeah.
- [122:30]
Matt Koplik
So was Donna Murphy.
- [122:32]
Sam Semock
Wait, was Donna. Donna Murphy was in Spider Man 2.
- [122:34]
Matt Koplik
She's his wife who bites it early.
- [122:37]
Sam Semock
Oh, wow. I haven't seen that movie since becoming a total theater nerd. I knew when I saw Alfred Molina, I saw, like, him do. Saw a clip of him doing Rich man, and I was like, oh, stock. Ock.
- [122:53]
Matt Koplik
Stock act. Okay, okay, okay, I got it. I got it. Jason Moore directed a Broadway revival of Steel Magnolias. Yes, he did. Starring Christine Brandt. Christine Ebersol. Christine Ebersol was in War Paint with John Dossett. John Dossett was in hello Again with Donna Murphy, who is in Spider Man 2 with Alfred Molina, who was in Fiddler on the Roof with Sally Murphy. Bing, bang, boom, there we go. I am a freak of nature. I don't like that I can do this, but here we are.
- [123:35]
Sam Semock
It's excellent.
- [123:36]
Matt Koplik
Yeah. I don't understand my brain. I wish I could make it compute human emotions. I wish it could make me compute math and law so I could have a career that paid money.
- [123:46]
Sam Semock
But nice, wouldn't it? Yeah.
- [123:49]
Matt Koplik
I have a cousin who's a lawyer. I've got a cousin who's an anesthesiologist. I've got a sister who's in finance. And I'm like, how do I make my brains work? Like your brains? Because I know I'm smart. It's just my brain works for things that don't matter.
- [124:01]
Sam Semock
Yeah, it would be nice, you know, law or accounting or finance or what?
- [124:06]
Matt Koplik
I love nothing more than to be a lawyer. But like a lawyer in a TV show. Yeah, that's it. Anyway, that's. That's all. That's all true, Sam. This has been lovely, Matt.
- [124:16]
Sam Semock
So nice. It's always fun. There's always a good time.
- [124:18]
Matt Koplik
Where can People find you if you want them to find you.
- [124:22]
Sam Semock
Find me on Instagram. I got rid of my Twitter. You know, this is. I got rid of Twitter before Elon Musk took over. I was ahead of the curve. But I'm on Instagram at Soapbox Sam. I have a website, samc.com S I M A H K. In case I.
- [124:41]
Matt Koplik
Spell it wrong for this episode.
- [124:42]
Sam Semock
Guys, a lot of times, you know, some people will think it's H a K, but it's ahk. It's all fairly phonetic. It kind of the I is an E, you know, but yeah. And I'm about to tour the country for the next six months with into the Woods. So come out and see us. We'll be in LA for a month. DC for a month, Chicago for a couple of weeks. Boston, Philly, Charlotte, Orlando, a bunch of places. Amsterdam, Bangkok. Celebration. Florida.
- [125:13]
Matt Koplik
Perfect. There it is. If you want to follow me anywhere, Instagram only. Matt Koplik. Usual spelling if you like the podcast, rate us. Review us, subscribe to us. Tell your friends, tell your loved ones. If you don't like the podcast, tell your enemies and make them sit down for all nine hours of my episodes. We close out every episode with Robbie Diva. Now, the last time you were here, Sam, you had us close out with an Harada, and we simply cannot close out with her again. So you blew your wad all over Pacific Overtures, and so now we're left with a bit of a bukkake mess on our hands. So we gotta find another diva avenue. Q related.
- [125:54]
Sam Semock
Can. Can we do. Can we do Stephanie d'? Abruzzo?
- [125:57]
Matt Koplik
We could if we wanted to do one of her bits from the Scrubs episode.
- [126:04]
Sam Semock
Yeah, that's what I was thinking from the Scrubs episode.
- [126:06]
Matt Koplik
Does she have a long period where she sings that's like, not sad? Because I know she has that one day.
- [126:11]
Sam Semock
Like, yeah, what's going to happen?
- [126:14]
Matt Koplik
Yeah, she's very sad. She's like, I've got a tune. She's like, in case everyone anyone forgot I have a tumor. Like, does she have a patter song? Why are you singing? Wait, why am I singing something?
- [126:24]
Sam Semock
There's got to be something like that.
- [126:25]
Matt Koplik
Yeah, there's got to be a morning after. Or. Or. Or how about think of anyone else who, like, went into the show for a bit. Weirdly, Christy Carlson Romano played Kate Monster for like a hot second. So we could do the whole we went to the moon in 1969 from even Stevens. Not 1968, but a year, but a year later or it could be her as 13 year old Mary Fagan singing Picture show, but I don't know, I guess we could do d' Abruzzo or we could do.
- [127:04]
Sam Semock
You do Natalie Venetia Belkin, who's the.
- [127:07]
Matt Koplik
I'm trying to think of like Coleman. Trying to think of other people who went into this show for a minute that we don't know about. Like who are some other fun replacements or you know what, because we know that she's on the cast album. Amy Garcia was an understudy in the original company. We could have her. Jack, Jack, Jack. Heading to sack bit for the woods cast recording, close out with Ms. Garcia.
- [127:35]
Sam Semock
Yeah, there we go. And that'll be. And that'll be advertising too for the End of the woods tour because she's going to be. She's going to be there.
- [127:42]
Matt Koplik
What, what's that word again? Synergy. That is. That is. That's the right word, right? I use the right word there?
- [127:48]
Sam Semock
Yeah.
- [127:49]
Matt Koplik
Great.
- [127:50]
Sam Semock
Now you could be in the corporate world.
- [127:52]
Matt Koplik
Oh, absolutely. I've got no heart. I just, I just need to know what the words are. Not, not so I know what I'm doing, but just so I don't get into legal trouble. But. Right. Yeah. I don't know. I feel like I could fake my way till I make it. Yeah. Okay, so we'll close out with Amy Garcia. Fantastic. Join us. Yeah, join us next week for God knows what because we're recording this whole thing out of order and I don't know anything anymore and I, I, God, I just need to take a shower at this point. It is going on 4:30, Sam. So do I. I can smell my hands and that is not great. So.
- [128:28]
Sam Semock
Anyway, unless you just ate Subway.
- [128:31]
Matt Koplik
You ate Subway.
- [128:32]
Sam Semock
Unless you just ate Subway. That's the only time you should be able to smell your hands. And even then it's not a comforting thing.
- [128:37]
Matt Koplik
No. Well, I didn't know I washed my hands, so I guess I still smell the soap a bit. But I. You should be able to do more things in the world after you've washed your hands that you can't smell the soap three hours later. I don't mean that.
- [128:49]
Sam Semock
I just mean like a Trekkie monster about that one.
- [128:52]
Matt Koplik
Well, no, that's just, that's just moisturizer. That also smells great. I just feel like going out and touching grass. Like I should be able to touch grass at this point or meet Jesus or something. Jesus Christ. Okay, so once again, join us next week for God knows what. Sam has been a pleasure. And yeah, Have a great week, y'. All. I hope that we didn't burn you out with our gyms. I swear to God we weren't stoned for this. We just. It's just been a long day. And Sam and I get into craziness when we talk too much and take us away, Amy. Bye.
- [129:22]
Voice Actor (performing songs)
Jack. Jack. Jack. Head in a sack? The house is getting colder? This is not a time for dreaming? Chimney stack starting to crack? The mice are getting bolder? The floor's gone slack? You're. Your mother's getting older, your father's nod back? And you can't just sit here dreaming pretty dreams? Tuition wait? From day to day? We'll never keep the wolves away? So into the woods, the time is now? We have to live? I don't care how? Into the woods? To sell the cow, you must begin the journey.