Broadway Breakdown – AVENUE Q w/ Sam Simahk (Feb 23, 2023)

Overview

This episode of Broadway Breakdown sees host Matt Koplik joined by returning guest and actor Sam Simahk for a hilarious, heartfelt, and in-depth discussion about Avenue Q. As part of the podcast’s “Big Move” series examining shows that made the leap from Off-Broadway to Broadway, Matt and Sam reflect on Avenue Q’s significant place in musical theater, its themes of adulthood, failure, and community, and the controversies and legacies it’s spawned. Their conversation meanders through personal nostalgia, the craft of the show, and wide-ranging industry takes, all delivered in Matt's signature foul-mouthed, passionate style.

Key Discussion Points & Insights

1. Personal Histories & Early Connections

[02:07-06:00]

• Sam recalls discovering Avenue Q in high school via the cast album, connecting it to his childhood love of shows like Sesame Street and Mr. Rogers.
• Matt shares being a New York City child and Avenue Q being part of his entry into Broadway fandom, particularly during its breakthrough Tony Awards season.
• Both have never actually performed in Avenue Q, though they “cast” themselves in roles, joking about still being “young and supple” enough to audition.

Memorable Quote:
"This brought me right back to then, and it was fun to listen again and hear things differently from a 35-year-old perspective." – Sam [02:13]

2. Cultural Context & Lasting Relevance

[06:34-12:00]

• The episode reviews the landmark 2003-2004 Broadway season (Avenue Q vs. Wicked, Caroline, or Change, Taboo, etc.), and the debate on what "deserved" Best Musical.
• Matt references the Show Business documentary for insight into the scene at the time, how Avenue Q was initially met with skepticism, and its underdog triumph.
• The hosts discuss how Avenue Q’s central theme of post-collegiate directionlessness lands differently as adults.

Memorable Quote:
"The show is very funny, but... there’s so much about, like, the heartbreak and directionlessness of the characters that I was like, God damn it… I’m just an open wound right now and I’m bleeding." – Matt [10:33]

3. Origins & Creative Process

[11:04-13:49]

• Originated as a TV concept before becoming a stage show, Avenue Q was shaped by the involvement of ex-Sesame Street people (Rick Lyon, John Tartaglia, Stephanie D’Abruzzo).
• The “Sesame Street for adults, but with real-life problems” pitch resonated strongly with Gen X and millennials alike.
• The subversive humor only works because the puppets allow tougher truths to land with levity.

4. Subverting Childhood Messages: Specialness & Purpose

[13:49-17:16]

• Sam and Matt reflect on how Avenue Q flips the message of “everyone is special” from children’s TV to a more realistic, sometimes harsh adult world.
• Discussion of balancing self-worth with humility (“have two pockets: ‘I am a speck of dust’ and ‘the universe was created for me’”).

Quote & Analogy:
"We are all special… we have our own baggage… But we’re also not special in the sense that there are billions of us… as a human, the two things you should try to do… is enjoy your life and try to make your little piece of earth better than when you found it. It’s very Make Our Garden Grow from Candide." – Matt [15:15]

5. Songs, Humor, and Heartbreak

[18:34–25:54]

• Asking which song best introduces the show, the hosts suggest "Everyone’s a Little Bit Racist," "If You Were Gay," and "There’s a Fine, Fine Line."
• They analyze how Avenue Q’s score is deceptively strong, balancing melody, humor, and insight, even when not as “adventurous” as Wicked.
• The emotional resonance of songs like “Fine, Fine Line” and how their impact shifts with age and experience.

Memorable Matt Soundbite:
"‘Fine, Fine Line’ really is a gut punch to me, especially now… the romantic egg on your face of heart on your sleeve, putting yourself out there and then the person you’re vulnerable with just completely pisses on your leg and tells you it’s raining—or worse, doesn’t piss on you at all." – Matt [23:08]

6. Satire, Comfort, and Offensiveness

[33:03–41:12]

• The “controversy” then and now: In 2003, Avenue Q was edgy, raunchy, and risky; today, it’s occasionally attacked for insensitivity regarding race and stereotypes.
• The hosts defend the show’s satire and its nuanced conversation about race, humor, and self-improvement.
• Anecdotes about contemporary reactions—both supportive and misunderstanding (“overly martyred white people” and “fake woke allyship” get roasted).

Quote:
"It’s hard for a lot of people in our community to recognize nuance, and when something is in on the joke… People also mistake being uncomfortable for being offended, and they are two very different things." – Matt [33:27]

7. The Realities of Adulthood on Avenue Q

[41:12–47:30]

• Unlike Rent, in Avenue Q the system is not something to dismantle, it’s something the characters struggle just to enter or survive inside.
• The characters ("college educated", burdened with loans, and dreams, but no clear answers) mirror millennial and Gen X anxieties.

8. Iconic Comedy & Relationship Satire

[53:57–65:24]

• Songs such as “Mixtape,” “The More You Love Someone,” “Internet Is For Porn,” and “My Girlfriend Who Lives in Canada” are dissected for their ingenious lyricism, comedy, and psychological truth (e.g., projection, denial, and heartbreak).
• Avenue Q’s relationships are lauded for their realism; the will-they/won’t-they turbulence between Princeton and Kate Monster is a “very adult and human” take on romantic comedies.

Best Lyric Drops:

• "Grab your dick and double click!" (“Internet Is For Porn”)
• "Happiness at the misfortune of others…that is German!" (“Schadenfreude”)

9. Industry Stories, Broadway Geeking, and Tony Controversies

[57:17–62:41]

• The infamous Tony race: The Avenue Q team ran an aggressive “vote with your heart” campaign, then enraged road voters by opting to launch a Las Vegas sit-down instead of a tour—a move that led to rule changes for future Tonys.
• Avenue Q was long considered “too New York-centric” for mass appeal, yet triumphed on Broadway, succeeded in London, and enjoyed a long Off-Broadway afterlife.

10. On Performance and Theatrical Spaces

[81:01–85:23]

• Comparing Broadway houses and touring theaters, they discuss the illusion of Broadway grandeur versus the intimacy (and cramped backstage spaces) of theaters like the Golden.
• They geek out about the history and quirks of the Vivian Beaumont at Lincoln Center.

11. Avenue Q’s Legacy: Themes and Community

[97:51–104:15]

• The central message of “For Now”: nothing, whether happiness or suffering, lasts forever—embrace change and the value of community.
• The show’s affirmation of vulnerability, neighborliness, and “enjoying your life and trying to make your little piece of earth a little better.”

Quote:
"Nobody has anything figured out. You might not get everything you think you’re worth, but everything is only temporary, whether you’re happy or sad. So enjoy the ride, because you’re only on it for a short amount of time." – Sam [98:09]

Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments

• Matt on musicals & butt stuff:
  “We have these conversations and yes, we get scholarly, but also we talk about butt stuff. That is the only way to really talk about musicals, in my opinion.” [112:01]
• Sam on the show’s complexity:
  "For all its simplicity… there is a lot more depth in Avenue Q." [22:26]
• On ‘Everyone’s a Little Bit Racist’:
  "It allows us to have a sense of humor about ourselves… If you can't laugh at yourself, how the fuck can you laugh at anything else?" – Matt [37:13]
• On realism in relationships:
  “That can’t happen again. And I want to make sure that we’re at a steady pace, which I appreciate. She’s not about the drama." – Matt [74:20]
• On legacy:
  “The only way for me to believe someone telling me the bad stuff is only for now is if someone also tells me the good stuff is only for now.” – Matt [101:10]

Timestamps of Key Segments

• [02:07] – Introduction: How Sam & Matt got into Avenue Q
• [06:34] – Avenue Q’s Broadway debut and the Big 2004 Tony season
• [11:04] – The show’s conception: from BMI to Broadway
• [13:49] – “Specialness” vs. adulthood in the show’s message
• [18:34] – Picking the song that best introduces Avenue Q
• [21:46] – Song comparison: Avenue Q vs. Wicked
• [33:03] – Avenue Q's reception, satire, and offense in modern times
• [41:12] – Adult disillusionment: Comparing Avenue Q and Rent
• [53:57] – Mixtape, relationships, song breakdowns
• [57:17] – Tony Award campaign controversy
• [63:28] – Fantasies Come True/My Girlfriend Who Lives in Canada
• [74:20] – On realism and “taking it one day at a time”
• [97:51] – “For Now” and the show’s essential philosophy

The Podcast’s Signature Tone

Conversational, irreverent, geeky, and laden with off-color humor. Matt and Sam exchange playful jabs, deploy copious four-letter words, and frequently spiral into tangents that connect Avenue Q’s themes with everything from Tony Awards politics to personal tales of dating, therapists, and theater school trauma.

Final Thoughts: Why Avenue Q Endures

• Avenue Q balances satire with sincerity, lampooning both childhood optimism and adult disillusionment without ever losing its heart.
• Its songs, simplicity, and puppet aesthetics do not dilute the complexity of its themes.
• The show’s emphasis on community, humility, and learning from failure gives it surprising emotional heft beneath the raunch.

Closing Note

The episode concludes with the usual games ('Six Degrees' of Sally Murphy/Jeanine Tesori) and plugs for Sam’s Instagram and touring schedule, plus a riotous brainstorming session for the outro diva song [124:18–127:48].

[129:21] – Ends with Amy Garcia singing "Jack, Jack, Jack, head in a sack..." from Into the Woods(in a neat bit of Avenue Q-adjacent synergy).

For fans of musical theater and anyone grappling with post-college adulthood, this episode offers both deep dives and plenty of belly laughs—a fitting tribute to Avenue Q itself.*