← Broadway Breakdown
Broadway Breakdown
BONUS! Interview w/ MARY JANE's Susan Pourfar
00:47:10
A Lovely Discussion with a Lovely Person
Loading summary
Transcript138 lines
- [00:00]
A
Give my regards to Broadway Remember me to Herald Square Tell all the gang at 42nd street that I will soon.
- [00:14]
B
Be there.
- [00:16]
A
Whisper of how I am yearning to mingle with that old time frog Give my regards to old Broadway and say that I'll be there. Hello all you theater lovers both out and proud and on the DL. And welcome back to a bonus episode of Broadway Breakdown, a podcast discussing the history und legacy of American theater's most exclusive address, Broadway. I am your host, Matt Koplik, the least famous and most opinionated of all the Broadway podcast hosts. And with me today is a very special guest. She is an award winning actress. You might have seen her in a slew of off Broadway shows such as Women or Nothing or Tribes, for which she won the Dorothy Loudon Theater Award for Excellence. Or I might have had one of those words switched around. But those are the correct words in that title. Not to mention her numerous TV and film credits. But currently you can see her on Broadway in one of my favorite plays of the year. Mary Jane. Please welcome Susan Porfar. Hi, Susan.
- [01:18]
B
Hi. Thank you for having me. I'm so happy to be here.
- [01:21]
A
So, so happy to have you on. So I'm a pretty intuit theater lover. I see as much as I can. I'm pretty on the pulse. I recall briefly Mary Jane being done at the New York Theater Workshop, a production that you were also in. But I didn't. For some reason or other, my lazy butt did not get over there fast enough to get tickets. And when this was announced with the lovely Ms. Rachel McAdams, I was like, well, sold, I'm there. And I knew nothing about it other than Amy Herzog wrote it. And I had just seen Doll's House the year before, which was a phenomenal translation. And I gotta tell you, Ms. Susan Porfar, from the moment it began to the moment it ended, I was a wreck. I loved everything about it. It's one of my favorite ensembles of the year. You in particular actually had a credit on my Instagram, which I will not share with you just now, but it's gonna get posted later this year. I do sort of like fake Tony categories every June. Categories that don't exist. And you're in one of them. And this was before I got the offer to interview you. And when your name popped up my email, I was like, oh, click, click, click. Yes, yes, yes. So I was very excited that we got to do this today. This is a long way of saying, how did Mary Jane come into your path?
- [02:42]
B
Lucky for you, we have this Remount. So even though you missed it in 2017, you get to hear the story told anew. We learned. I was offered the play in 2017, before the pandemic, you know, and, and in its second incarnation, it had already been done at Yale, but it was its first New York incarnation. And it was an incredible experience. At the time I had a newborn. So much of the experience for me was there was also this incredible theatrical experience side by side with this deep fatigue of being up in the morning and trying to race home from the theater with actually, we talk about pumping in the show. I was actually pumping backstage during that incarnation. And the play meant so much to us. It's a personal story, but it also felt like it had reverberations for a lot of people that hadn't ever had any kind of experience with disability or critically ill children. Then after we closed, there was some talk about a transfer. And as you know, the Pandemic hit and various other things happened in the. In, in. In the interim. And when it came back, I got a phone call saying, listen, it's going to come back. We really want you to do it. I didn't get the offer right away because when it's Broadway and a new producer and a new artistic director, everything has to go through proper channels. But lucky for me and Brenda, who also did it off Broadway, they brought us back to reprise our roles. And I think we've deepened them because we've had this additional experience of living through this pandemic. And also then, of course, we got another bonus five weeks of rehearsal with this incredible new cast and with Annie Kaufman and Amy. And they were coming to it like, this is a new play. So let's start from scratch. And we brought in tons of people to help us, along with a lot of the research that went into telling this story.
- [05:06]
A
That's wonderful. I was. Because I was gonna ask for a production that is. Is a remount. It is the same designer, same director, and two of the same actors. How you kind of go into something again that is the skeleton of what you've already done. But there are all new elements. There's a majority new cast. So as you said, they. It was approached just anew.
- [05:26]
B
So I brought everything that I had learned with me, obviously. But then you have to create a new through line for yourself because everyone's scenes are primarily two person scenes with Mary Jane. So the incredible Carrie Coon had done the role in 2017, and the equally fabulously talented Rachel McAdams is now in the role. But they're two very different temperamental beasts of this craft. So playing opposite of them naturally became. And there's going to be a learning process and a curve, a learning curve for oh, what is this new relationship? Because the scenes are all about the relationship between Mary Jane and the various caregivers or caretakers that come into her life. And I also think for myself, coming across the material was very different with a 7 year old than it was with a 6 month old. You know, I, I in for, for, for better and for worse in ways because I think a lot. There was oftentimes in rehearsal when I would think, God, did I say this line before? You know, I can't, I could barely like it. Was I in a fog? Was I even there? It's partly that the, the time went by, but it's partly that it really feels like I'm experiencing it new and for the first time.
- [06:58]
A
Well, that actually in a wonderful way kind of it mirrors your characters because your first character, Brienne does have a, a newborn, correct? It's or yes, yes. And, and that's your first scene. And then in the second scene with Haya, I believe her daughter is a few years older, correct?
- [07:13]
B
Yes. And Haya has a lot of kids at home.
- [07:15]
A
A lot of kids at home.
- [07:16]
B
And she's, her daughter is older. I kind of did the math to like these together. So she has two younger brothers and an older brother. And also. And like. So where is she? And like. And I, she's got to, in my mind she's at, you know, at least 4, 5, 6. Because just to do the math of she also has these two newborns at home. But you're absolutely right, I hadn't thought of that, that it mirrors my experience in the play. I think Brianne has, has a newborn at home and Chaya's got older children and also, you know, she's not only different temperamentally, she's like at a different phase of understanding what it means to live with the, the rhythms of, of a child who has like a lot of needs. And honestly that is such a cool thing that you're pointing out to me that I hadn't really put together. But I love that.
- [08:13]
A
Well, this is what I, this is what I bring to the table.
- [08:16]
B
I love that.
- [08:17]
A
Yeah, well, and I, and what I love about. So every actress in Mary Jane, for those who've not seen it or read it, you know, it is focused on the character of Mary Jane played by Rachel McAdams here, whose son. Alex. Right?
- [08:30]
B
Alex.
- [08:30]
A
Yeah, Alex. Yes. He had, he's about two and a half. He's. He is. He is almost three. A line that gutted me. Oh, God. I. I would like to, when this production concludes, go to the library to watch Carrie Coon. Because I'm like, I want to know how she said that line, because Rachel says it in a way that gutted me. And I'm sure that Carrie's going to say it in a way that guts me. Anyway, my point was every actress in the show plays two roles, and they. Even though there are two different characters, they are similar.
- [09:04]
B
They're linked, right?
- [09:05]
A
Yeah, they're linked. They play similar roles to Mary Jane and sort of how they mirror her, but from sort of different ends. So one actress, April Mathis, plays a nurse, and then she plays a doctor, and you play another mother of a child with special needs. But in the first half, you are Brienne, who is new to this, and Mary Jane is, you know, counseling her. And then you're Haya, who has been in this actually longer than Mary Jane. So she actually has something to teach her. And I think that that's just. And it's not overt. It's not pandery in that way. Like, I didn't even realize those links until, like, that very next day. And I think that's very smart writing. And. And you guys don't really hit it over the head. It's just sort of very straightforward, which I appreciate, but I. That must be a wonderful.
- [09:50]
B
Actually, even the costume designer very subtly tried to thread the. The. The two characters for each of us. I mean, it's so subtle. Like, my Chaya has these bold stripes and. And my. My Brianne has a gentle stripe in her top part of her costume. And the, The. I think the using, like, color palette or pattern or just in some way that the costume designer had an eye to. I want to draw, like, a little bit of a dotted line between your two characters. And Annie Kaufman, our incredible director, said, you know, it's not really like, I want you to do some, like, disappearing act. So the people, like, have no idea, like, that I had no idea it was you, kind of. They're essentially, for a lot of us, I feel like we would describe it as like two sides of the same coin. Right. And I. What. I have really enjoyed watching Lily Santiago because she has this one young woman who is so incredibly and recognizably awkward in her. In. In how she interacts socially. And then we have her come in later, and she's a young woman working in the hospital, and she's so adept and socially immature in what she's able to offer Mary Jane. And often it's like in one character, Mary Jane is kind of taking care of you, and in your other character, you're sort of take. You're taking care of Mary Jane. Yeah, it's a. It's like they, they've talked about it as like a community of care.
- [11:36]
A
Absolutely.
- [11:37]
B
Like, ew. When I say it, it sounds so, like, cliche and like, girly and like sisterhood of the. You know, but, and, but honestly, it's very elegantly done, I think. And it's not like you said, I don't think we're pandering or, you know, going for like, the goo factor of, like, aren't girls great friends for each other? In fact, with Brianne, there's ways in which, like I said during rehearsal and, and I think Rachel would agree. Like, I don't think these women would be friends in, if not given this set of circumstances. I think they're in different social groups. I think they, like, have different priorities. Like, like, what is. What's her goal to. As a job is to eventually. Mary Jane says she wishes she could be a middle school math teacher. And I'm, like, doing like, PR for crisis management. Like, I don't think they were gonna, like, be people who, like, socialized if this hadn't brought them together. And I like that there's a little bit of friction. I mean, same with like, talking to an orthodox woman. Like, it's the situation and the context that, like, brings Mary Jane into contact with people. And Mary Jane is such a curious human. She ends up finding out a lot about every other woman that comes and that she comes into contact with.
- [13:01]
A
Yeah, I, I feel you, though, about the. You know, it's so easy to eye roll at things, especially with theater. I mean, it's, it's so easy to poorly sell any premise to any show ever. You know, it's like, actually, it's a, it's a fun game to do. Like, think of some of the most brilliant shows of all time and be like, okay, give it the worst one sentence elevator pitch of your life.
- [13:18]
B
I know. I mean, like, is Community of Care like a big ticket seller? I don't know.
- [13:25]
A
I think that's the thing though is I've. I've had to sell shows to people that are like, not necessarily throwing glitter on you of just like, eternal optimism, but they are, you know, beautiful, optimistic shows. For me, it was a very similar similarly link to Kimberly Akimbo, a musical That I find very bittersweet in its. In its beauty and its hopefulness because it doesn't sugarcoat the sadness. But by not sugarcoating the sadness, you're able to highlight just how beautiful the other moments are. There was what. There was some show I just watched and. Oh, you know what it was? It was the Wiz. I had just seen this curtain revival, the Wiz. And I'll leave my thoughts on that production in general aside. But Amber Ruffin did write a line that I liked which was basically like, the hard times are there to let you know just how good you have it. And yeah, and I think that is something like a Mary Jane or a Kimberly Akimbo. And it's something that I remember Jesse Green wrote in his review for your show. And, and I have a very complicated relationship with Jesse as a critic. But when he gets it right, he gets it very right. And I found his review for Mary Jane was so beautifully written because he also, he mentioned your last production and sort of talked about the difference in temperament of Rachel and of Carrie and said with Rachel you really got the hope of the piece this time that because she radiated such, not toxic positivity, but like relentless positivity from within, it permeated everywhere.
- [14:50]
B
That was a big thing in rehearsal was play the hope, play the hope. Because, you know, the grief is. Is there. It's underneath. It's underneath it. It's not something you have to lean. Lean into.
- [15:03]
A
Yeah.
- [15:04]
B
And it's understood by the audience. And in a way, like a friend came to opening and said to me, like, actually in the first couple scenes, all the despair and the grief is very like sublimated. Like we don't see Alex. We hear the sounds, but we don't know exactly what they pertain to. And we, we are, we're just watching a woman in, in like the rhythm, the daily rhythm of her, of her life, you know, things ticking along. And it takes a while to reveal very intelligently, I think on the part of Amy Herzog takes a while to reveal what is behind the door.
- [15:43]
A
Yeah.
- [15:43]
B
What is Alex going through and what kind of care has she been providing and you know, at what cost to her?
- [15:53]
A
Yeah. Her sleep, her well being, everything. And yeah, it's so fascinating because, you know, I feel like, well, so like with your character, you have Brienne and High End, there's a moment where Brienne does have a small moment of breakdown crying. It's not, you know, over the top but, you know, when Mary Jane is sort of giving her information and Telling her things you have to think of. And Branley has a moment where she kind of just has to take a soft cry for herself before she can continue.
- [16:26]
B
No, doesn't have that. Kya almost does. And then she's like, nope, not do it.
- [16:31]
A
Well, because I feel like Haya's probably already had that in, like, the six years with her daughter. She's like, I've been there, I've done it. It's like.
- [16:37]
B
Well, I also think there's a really big clue in the text, which is that Amy has Mary Jane say to. To Amelia when she visits. She says, oh, my God, I'm so glad you're not meeting me in that first year. Like, I was a wreck. Which I take to mean, like, at any given moment, she could. You. Could you fall apart, right? Because at any given moment, it's. Oh, it's too. It's an. You're. It's. You're overloaded. It's. You're overwhelmed, you're out. You feel like you're just up against, you know, so. So much that is unexpected for yourself and for your child. And so I think that clue was like, oh, she's giving us a character who was very close to what Mary Jane might have been going through in her first year and a character who's like, past past where Mary Jane is now. And, you know, I don't want to say what may or may not happen at the end of this play because I think it's purposefully left. I think it's very purposefully left ambiguous. What is that last moment? But I like Chaya. I do hope Mary Jane has many more children one day.
- [17:43]
A
Yeah, I think we all. Yeah, we all root for her. And I think that, you know, I think as you said, you know, the grief is there in the show, and to play it is to punish yourself and the audience and.
- [17:56]
B
And, like, I don't think anyone could take it. You know, I mean, you need the levity, you need the laughter. And, like, also, like, this experience is more than one thing for a parent. It's. It's. It's like the multitude, just like it is for any parent. You know, Rachel's character, Mary Jane, says a friend told her, in that first year, you'll still have good days and bad days. And at the time, she thought, well, what kind of thing is that to say? But now she knows that was like, the best thing anyone had ever said to her. It's like, you're still gonna have good days and bad days. You know, I mean, like, Alana, I was just thinking. I always think this. Like, when there's a part I really want, I'll think like, God, you know, I really want this part. And. And then I'm like, but, you know, I'll still have to do the laundry. I mean, it's just like, it's. It doesn't it. Or. Or on the flip side, you know, you're going through a really challenging time, and it's like, I still have to get up and make dinner for people. Like. Like, you're still gonna have. I still. And they're still gonna be, like, a lot. There still will be laughter. There still will be something to look. Look forward to down the road. Like, she. She really nails it when she says, this isn't gonna just define your every day. Now forevermore is grief. Like, you're still gonna have good days and bad days. You're gonna have great days with Alex. You're gonna get to go to a diner where his, you know, his suction machine can. Wants, and it's not going to bother anybody. And that's a good day.
- [19:24]
A
Yeah. And. And he's gonna enjoy himself, and you're gonna be able to watch that. And. And, you know, and it's. It's a very. Yeah, it's a very human piece. And this has been a year that I've enjoyed. I've. I've said this very many times on the. On the podcast. As I've said in my intro, I'm a very opinionated podcast host. I feel like the plays this year have really just been like, they. All of you guys stepped up this year. And I was like, yes, I love all of you. You're all amazing, especially because there have been so many plays about people and actual engagement, which I'm all for, you know, thematic plays and having big epics. I love all those, too. But I'm like, for every, you know, War Horse, I would like a Death of a Salesman or a. Or a Heidi Chronicles, and I feel like we got that this year with Mary Jane and Stereophonic and appropriate, like, plays about relationships and the human experience in ways that aren't so out there that we. That we can still connect with them. And I mean, I.
- [20:21]
B
They're, like, hungry for it as a couple. Right. Like, just. I don't. I do want to say that as much as it's exciting that all these plays are on Broadway, they all began off Broadway. Right. Is that true?
- [20:36]
A
I think. Well, I mean, not all mother play open straight on Broadway.
- [20:41]
B
Okay.
- [20:42]
A
But you. You guys, Stereophonic Prayer for the French Republic. There's an appropriate. Yeah, a lot.
- [20:50]
B
A lot of them did. So. So as much as I'm like, it's so exciting for this to be on Broadway, I really want to give props to, you know, the, the people in that give the green light to projects like this off Broadway, where it's not like a slam dunk for an audience bringing in the audience, but the play itself, itself ends up. The play itself ends up, like, teaching us what we need to hear.
- [21:17]
A
Oh, yeah.
- [21:18]
B
Informing us, like, what audiences are ready to go through and experience and, And. And be up for. So, like, thank God for that. Thank God for. For places where you can do something that's a little more experimental and, you know, it's not as punishing because it's not as reliant on just the. The bottom line of ticket sales and capitalism or whatever it all is.
- [21:46]
A
You know, every piece of work that I really love, that I all like, you know, I'll then go down this huge rabbit hole of interviews and backstage whatever, and the creatives behind the piece always say, like, you know, we. We did want to make something of merit, but also we're like, I don't know, what do we want to see? Like, like, what would we want to sit through? And anytime they were like, questioning what to put in, what to cut, it's like, well, you know, what would I want to sit through that scene if I just went through an hour of such and such, and if the answer is no, it's like, well, let's cut it then. And I always feel like when you go from your personal experiences and your personal wants, those are the things that tend to resonate the most with audiences. I mean, I'm not a mother, famously not a mother. I do call myself mother from time to time. And I'm not a child with, you know, many needs outside of just my, what I call Rain man esque knowledge of theater trivia and history. But, I mean, I just, I was so engrossed with this play and, and just related to the emotions of it, if not necessarily the circumstances. And I think that's the power of storytelling, you know.
- [22:52]
B
And also I would encourage you since you are, like, such a theater aficionado and nerd, but, like, if you are going to go back, go, go see, like, every Amy Herzog play that recorded, because I had the same experience sitting in the audience for 5000. Is it 4000 miles or 5000?
- [23:10]
A
I think it's 5000 miles. So I don't. I don't trust myself right now, one bit.
- [23:15]
B
4,000 miles to get from one. What is it?
- [23:18]
A
4,000 miles.
- [23:19]
B
4,000. I'm like, how many miles is it? So I will, I'll go back to say two to revisit 4,000 miles. And after the revolution and Great God Pan. Now her translations, I mean in all of them, I mean just the experience I've had watching a show that Amy Herzog wrote or translated is always very profound and she's just really got her like finger on like the, the way that like humans speak and what they need and sometimes how they sublimate those needs and sometimes like, I mean there's just your gorgeous scene from 4000 Miles. I can still recall vividly of this boy and his grandmother getting high and like talking on a couch and like it's just. Yeah, like that, those, those like intimate moments between humans that were craving.
- [24:16]
A
Absolutely. I mean I, I definitely try to practice what I preach and I tell my listeners, like, you know, expand your repertoire of writers, of works and, and not just Broadway, but also Off Broadway. I mean, speaking of New York Theater Workshop, I saw I Love youe so Much I Could Die this Winter. And that was beautiful. Jonah at the Laura Pells earlier this year was phenomenal. That's what got me excited for the Outsiders, because that was my first Donya Taymor production. So I.
- [24:42]
B
Who was in Jonah? Someone told me, you've got to go see Jonah.
- [24:45]
A
It was Gabby Beans was the lead of that play and she was. I. Sometimes I am very early on the bandwagon for certain people and certain things and sometimes I'm so late to the game. So Gabby Beans, I was very late too. I first saw her in Skin of Our Teeth a year ago or two years ago. And in Jonah I was like, what? That performance is just incredible. There's been so many wonderful pieces this year. It's. It's not just Broadway. Off Broadway, off off Broadway, limited runs, regional. I. Yeah, it's out there for everyone to, to eat up. So chomp, chomp, everyone. But so with, with Mary Jane, you know, this is. And it's not like, you know, a ten year run, but you are doing this eight times a week. It isn't something you have to kind of find fresh within you and within your company. How do you all sort of go with that kind of. Because it's a, it's a structured schedule. Right. You know, you have your eight shows a week, but you have to make it authentic every time, especially for something like this. Do you guys have anything you sort of do together to kind of get into it, or is it. Everyone goes on their own journey in the show.
- [25:54]
B
So on the one hand, I think the. You know, what's helpful is, like, that, you know. You know, the rhythm of. Pretty much, you know, the rhythm of your week. It's not like film and tv, where it's. I have no idea what time I'm gonna be called tomorrow until I go to sleep at night and wake up at 3am to see, like, did they text me yet? You know, the rhythm of your week. I think that one thing is that, you know, we're not doing this show long enough to get comfortable or bored. I think there is still. We're still so early in our run. We're at something that, like, per. You know, I was like, laughing. Rachel was like, how can we be at performance number eight, you know, last. Because we did a lot of previews and there were. You know, we were in rehearsal for so long. But, yeah, we're still early in the run. So I think we're actually all still figuring out how to, like, harness the energy but also how to rest and recover and put down the play for, like, when you get home or in the morning so that you can replenish yourself. Because it's very exhausting to go through that emotional journey. Yeah. Did you ever have no idea that you're not really going through this?
- [27:14]
A
Yeah. Did you ever have a production where it was difficult to sort of leave the play at the theater and sort of relax at home?
- [27:22]
B
Yeah. I mean, I've definitely had shows where, like, I wake up, and from the moment I wake up, I cannot relax until I get to the theater. I do the show, and then from, like, the time it finishes for, like, the next hour, I'm like, okay, I have one hour now where I'm not anxious, but from, like. But this one, it's not anxiety, which is great. Maybe that's because I'm getting older and I've, like, figured out how to manage those feelings better. But it's more that. It is. It is. I. It. I walk around with it. I walk around with it. I. I constantly am noticing things on the subway or the street that I'm much more open to or available to because of the nature of this material that I think, God, I'm, like, literally walking behind this orthodox woman for, like, 12 blocks to just be like, how does she hold her back? How does she hold her keys? What? You know, what's she. What. Oh, my God. Good. She's put it. Okay, hold on. Hold on, oh, ok. She drives, she's getting into the car with her kids. Like, okay. I didn't, you know, I'm trying to like, so it, it. I'm following it and it follows me. I'm still like, I'm still like deeply in the curiosity phase of this creator.
- [28:42]
A
So have you had anyone in your life, friends or family, see both New York Theater Workshop production and this production yet?
- [28:50]
B
Yes. And I will say that one thing that people appreciate just to take the opposite thing of like everything starts off Broadway is the one thing that they really appreciate is a. That it's like it. The size of the house enlarges, kind of enlarges the story because it just by necessity you're now telling it to, you know, 650 instead of 150 or 200. I don't know how many New York Theater Workshop holds. But also that the, the, the effects, I don't want to give it away, but what happens with the set and the sound and the design has really. I mean you can, is doing things now in this production that you can only do on Broadway where you have that kind of ceiling and the house and so that sort of the. Everything has like come up a notch in terms of what you're capable of doing in this kind of house.
- [29:48]
A
Absolutely. I, yeah, I interviewed someone. We, we ended up. We weren't able to use the episode, but someone who worked on Hangman and they said the same thing about the transfer from the Atlantic Theater Company to Broadway was the transition they were able to do with their set. They're like, it would just, you know, the intimacy of Off Property was phenomenal. But they're like the, the ability to level up the design in a way was like it, it helps so much sometimes a piece really does just grow even further in a larger space and you know, with time. And it's lovely that that happened with Mary Jane.
- [30:21]
B
Yeah. I was worried, to be honest. I thought, well, how this is a very small, intimate story, a lot of two person scenes. But I don't know, it's Phil, it's filling the space and it's benefiting from that, that leveling up of the tech, as you said.
- [30:37]
A
Absolutely. Yeah. And I mean I, I can only speak for my performance, but our audience was absolutely engaged the entire time. No one felt like they were restless or distant from it. There was one person and I think it was in your scene and you. I don't know if you remember this at all. And I was. So we. You. The entire mezzanine groaned because they're like this idiot. Somebody did a quiet shout and said, I love you, Rachel McAdams. And in the middle of your scene.
- [31:01]
B
Oh, you were there.
- [31:02]
A
I was there for that one, yes.
- [31:04]
B
Oh, my gosh. I heard that they removed that person. I. That's the only time that's ever happened.
- [31:11]
A
Thank goodness.
- [31:12]
B
Thank goodness. One called out their love for Rachel while we were on stage. But I really. I think we both. I'm proud of us because, you know, we. We heard it. We. We made eye contact and, like, felt it. I felt like, a charge between us of, like, okay, that just happened. And then we doubled down in terms of our attention and focus to one another. I mean, that person. I don't. If you love Rachel McAdams, let the woman do her job on the one hand. On the other hand, I was like, okay, you know, the great thing about Rachel is she's probably bringing a lot of people to the theater that might not otherwise have a ton of experience coming.
- [31:50]
A
Yeah.
- [31:52]
B
So, okay, I did hear that they removed that person. I'm not sure if that.
- [31:57]
A
Actually, I think the person was in the orchestra. So I didn't. I don't. If they did. They did a ninja, like, job.
- [32:03]
B
Didn't hear a word because I think maybe there was also possibly some alcohol involved. But I will say that that that has never happened again. But what happened for us was we just. We. I really felt, like, this electric charge between us. Like, okay, it's you and me now. We cannot let that happen again. We didn't know that. What if that person was going to call out at any moment? And so it. It bonded us in a way. And I really felt. You know, I've. Have really felt in moments, and I hope she has, too. Like, we have each other's back. And, you know, when something like that happens, we're just gonna more fiercely take care of each other.
- [32:40]
A
Yeah. Which, I mean, I could feel because I. I hate moments like that. And same thing, you know, cell phone rings or anything like that. And that was a performance where luckily there actually wasn't a single cell phone that went off. There just was that one person. But every time I'm like, you know, in addition, you know, just the financials of putting on a Broadway show. Part of the reason why you pay for your ticket and why it's the price. It is, you know, despite the fact that the performance. There will be a performance tomorrow. That experience, that specific, exact experience will never happen again. Not with this group of people in the room, anything like that. And you Want to live in it as much as you can, to pay attention to as much as you can. And I understand that one person being like, this is my shot to let Rachel know. And I'm like, she knows you're here to see her. She knows you love her. Like, let us all experience this moment with her together, because otherwise, you're breaking.
- [33:25]
B
The magic, breaking it for other people. It gets a communal experience. I mean, I did go see Pearly Victorious, and God bless those performers. I think, like, seven or eight cell phones went off, and then finally they stopped the show, and Leslie Odom was like, this is a communal experience. If you haven't done so yet, please, please turn off your cell phones. We're trying this. We're trying to have a communal experience here.
- [33:54]
A
Yeah.
- [33:55]
B
And then got right back into it, and. Yeah.
- [33:59]
A
What a hero. Yeah. Because, I mean, what. What. It was so wonderful about what happened with that moment with you two. As you said, you did double down because then you. You have to work to get that magic back. And you were able to get it back so quickly because you were so committed to, like, okay, that's not. That's not going to ruin this. We're going to. We're going to bring this ship back.
- [34:16]
B
And also, like, this play is about. It's great. It's wonderful that people who love Rachel McAdams and I feel it, and I feel that energy and I love it. Are coming to see this. But ultimately, the magical spell should lift it above and beyond any singular love you have for her and make it more about this larger story that Amy is telling. And. And it does have that effect if. If, you know, if you allow it to. If you allow it to, like, transform in a way from, like, the Rachel, you know, from movies to. To Mary Jane.
- [34:54]
A
Yeah, no, absolutely. It's. I mean, again, as you said, you know, if you. If you love her, let her do her thing, but. And, you know, you're here to see her do her thing, but also, she's in this thing for a reason. She's a part of this production for reason with all of you, with this writing with. With Ann Kaufman, you know, not. Not just respect her craft, but respect her choice to be in this and. And. And watch and understand why she chose to be in this.
- [35:16]
B
Yeah. I wish you had been there. You had. You were there, but I wish there. You were there, but I wish you had been able to say. But you know what? It. It all. It all, like, worked out and is part of also, like, our own personal learning curve of like, what it's like to do live theater.
- [35:33]
A
And, yeah, I mean, I think it's a blessing that I wasn't sitting next to that person, because I don't think I would have gotten them out of the theater as quietly as the house staff did. I would have.
- [35:42]
B
They were amazing.
- [35:43]
A
They were amazing. No, it was. No, it was one of those weird moments where it was someone who broke the. The agreement, and then everyone re. Signed that agreement ever so quickly, and that doesn't happen very often.
- [35:56]
B
Thank you for saying that. You're welcome. Like, no, we're the audience. The audience did the same thing we did. They're like, no, we're doubling down for you.
- [36:05]
A
Yeah, it was because, I mean, at that point, we were so invested, and we were so in it, and we were all genuinely loving it. So we're like, yeah, I'm not gonna let that idiot, you know, however misguided their intentions were, ruin that for me. I'm here, and I'm gonna. I'm gonna get back into this. So I appreciated that. Yeah. I. Is there. Was there anything about the show that I haven't brought up that you would like to bring up? Because, you know, you've been in the sauce with this far longer than I have.
- [36:28]
B
Well, just the incredible art. Like, they are the crew and the artistic team, and if I haven't said. Said it, Brenda Wheel, April Mathis, Lily Santiago, are just incredible ensemble members and I think really incredible people to collaborate with. They really make the thing fly every night.
- [36:54]
A
Yes. All of you. I mean, so speaking of the Tony category that doesn't exist yet that I'm nominating you for on my Instagram. I don't know if April Mathis has a memory of this from last May, but she was nominated in this same fake category that I had on Instagram for the Piano Lesson. So if, like, if you see her and you're like, april, do you remember about a year ago on Instagram, somebody sent you an Instagram post that you were tagged in for a fake Tony category for your performance in Piano Lesson? She's like, oh, yeah, some random gay guy did do that. Yeah, that's. That's gonna be your category.
- [37:25]
B
Okay. Don't tell me what it is. I want to be surprised.
- [37:27]
A
You'll be surprised. Are you honest?
- [37:29]
B
During the Piano lesson, she was brilliant. So I'll be in any category that she was in.
- [37:33]
A
Oh, she was wonderful in that. That was. And I. There. There was another category that I came up with this year that if I had had it last year, she would be in that as well, which is what I called the princess track of the season, which is, you know, you get such a short amount of stage time, but you really like get to eat when you're on stage and because, you know, she's only in the second act of Piano Lesson for such a short amount of time, but it's, it's a meal. Yeah, no, that wasn't the category though. So I'll, I'll have a spread.
- [38:00]
B
Memorable.
- [38:01]
A
Are you, are you on Instagram too?
- [38:04]
B
You know, it's funny, my husband is on Instagram, so he's constantly sending me stuff about the show. Every time MTC post or someone posts about the show, he's like, he's so, I mean, I am actually not on it, but I, I will. If you post something about the show, it will make it to me.
- [38:23]
A
Fantastic. Yeah, then, yeah, you'll, you'll. Then you'll read it and just, just know that was already settled before this opportunity to interview you even happened. This was just kismet.
- [38:34]
B
This is kismet. Meant to be.
- [38:36]
A
Absolutely. I, Because I don't. I also want for my, the own integrity of my own imaginary Tony categories. I don't want anyone thinking that there was any kind of bribery going on.
- [38:45]
B
Favoritism or like that I had my public, non existent publicist reach out, which I did not. I mean, I don't even know how this happened.
- [38:54]
A
This happened just through sheer beauty of the theater community. My network, Broadway podcast network, sometimes sends us interview opportunities. So what I tend to do on this podcast. Susan, since you're brand spanking new to it, what I usually do is show analysis. Every. I'll do like these mini series themed miniseries and each episode is a different musical or play and I bring a guest on and, and we just talk about the show. We like break down the plot and the, and the writing as well as, you know, the history of the show, how it was made and then like the landscape it came out in, what its legacy is. So, you know, like, I just paused a miniseries that we called problematic with a question mark. Shows that have had controversy around them. So shows like, you know, Downstate Carousel, Miss Saigon, things like that, and we, you know, talk about it. And so BPN will sometimes be like, oh, you know, how would you like to interview so and so from Spamalot? I'm like, I don't think they want to come on and talk about the intricacies of Carousel. I think they want to come on and talk about Spamalot. But, but I Pause that whole trajectory every year for the Tonys. And I do Tony episodes, and as you know, the shows have opened and are campaigning or, you know, doing press for the Tonys. It's a good opportunity for me to branch out of that and interview wonderful people like you and lighting designer Corey Paddock from Gatsby and Spamalot and, you know, Tony nominee Sallie Mays, things like that. So this is. This is like a little fun thing for me where I get to pretend that I'm a regular podcaster who just interviews good people about their craft and not a nerd who analyzes for four hours. Promises, promises.
- [40:33]
B
I love it. Oh, I'm gonna listen to that. I'm. I wanna hear that four hour podcast.
- [40:38]
A
Nothing's four hours. Yeah, but the Missigon episode is three and a half hours long. But I will say my. I've had a few reviews on Instagram, on Apple podcasts that are like, oh, no, the Missigon episode, like that one. That's the good one. I was like, that's as long as Titanic. So go off. Yeah. Yeah, you can definitely look through all those and see which ones inspire you. But, yeah, I'm so glad you mentioned all of your castmates. They're all wonderful. Every time I. How do you say Brenda's last name?
- [41:07]
B
Wheel.
- [41:07]
A
Wheel. Brenda Wheel. Every time I see Brenda on stage, I always forget who she is. And I just. I'm like, why does she look so familiar? And the first thing I always go to, and I'm sure she gets this all the time, is that she's one of the women that Annette Benning's trying to sell the house to. An American Beauty, the one who's like. She says, there's nothing lagoon like about this pool. And that's what my brain always goes to. And then I remember I've also seen her in 12 other things.
- [41:29]
B
Right? 12 other plays.
- [41:31]
A
Yeah, but that's. Every time I see her, I'm always like, why does she look familiar? And then when I'm. When I leave, I'm like, American Beauty. And then I remember the rest of her career.
- [41:40]
B
I love it.
- [41:41]
A
Yeah.
- [41:41]
B
I feel like she's just like a. You know, she's a treasure.
- [41:45]
A
She is. And she sets a wonderful tone for the humor of the. Of Mary Jane when it begins. Because I think what I love so much of that opening scene is, you know, Rachel McAdams as Mary Jane. I mean, it's in the writing and also how Rachel does it is that Mary Jane is so performative in that Scene of just trying to have a friendly, normal conversation. And what makes it work is that Brenda is so natural and just, like, not. And, like, her response to Rachel's like, over energy and, like, performativeness is what gives that. That scene. It's humor and also makes you understand what it is that Rachel's doing. Because if Brenda wasn't doing a good job, people would be like, oh, Rachel's, like, not really communicating the stage well like she does on a film. I'm like, no, no. What she's doing is beautiful and brilliant. And you get that because of how Brenda's reacting to her.
- [42:32]
B
Yeah. It's kind of a leap of faith that it's all gonna work. And it requires, like, a lot of patience, I think, on the part of Rachel to, like, trust that she can lead like that and that everyone will then go on this journey with her and be like, oh, okay, yeah, now.
- [42:52]
A
I see where she's at. Especially when she does have her moment of not being defeated. But, like, the darkness, the grief does kind of overpower her for a moment, and that's where Lily kind of bears the brunt of that and has to sort of absorb that from her. And. Yes. And you just see the facets of this woman and all the women around her, and it's beautiful. Beautiful piece. And all of you, beautiful job. Gold stars all around.
- [43:16]
B
Thank you so much. Thank you so much. And thank you for re signing the contract with us after that disruption. I felt it.
- [43:24]
A
I'm glad you felt it. I'm glad that we had that moment together and. And we can reconnect about it now. Susan, this has been wonderful. Thank you so much for coming on today.
- [43:32]
B
Really had a great time. Thank you so much.
- [43:35]
A
Thank you. I mean, I know you don't have Instagram, but is there any way for people to find you online if you want them to find you a website?
- [43:42]
B
Any kind of be like, wait, what? No one's on Facebook anymore? I am still on Facebook.
- [43:47]
A
Uhhuh.
- [43:48]
B
And also MTC has been. Has, like, a really incredible social media department. They're on Instagram. So, like, they've been posting a lot of links, which I've then been sharing with friends.
- [44:04]
A
Wonderful.
- [44:05]
B
Yeah.
- [44:05]
A
Yeah. So there you go, guys. Mtc, Facebook, if you really, really want to find her, but please be respectful. She is an artiste with a life of her own. And yeah, Susan, this might be a curveball for you. So we always close out every episode with a little Broadway singing diva that I will. I'll put it in post to like, you know, play us out the song. But I always offered up to the guest to think of a Broadway diva to sing us out. And we unfortunately can't do Ms. McAdams as I don't think she's ever sung in public, and I don't think Amy Herzog sings in public, but to choose.
- [44:41]
B
Someone who I want to hear them singing.
- [44:44]
A
Yeah. So, like, when you listen to this episode, when it comes out next week, you'd be like, okay, who would I want to hear finish out my episode?
- [44:52]
B
Babs, for sure.
- [44:54]
A
Very.
- [44:55]
B
Does everybody choose Barbara Streisand?
- [44:58]
A
You'd be surprised. Not a lot. A lot of people want to get very interesting or they pick people they know. Sometimes it's like, related to the show we talk about. I've only done Barbara, I think twice.
- [45:08]
B
And Barbara, I know who I pick. I pick Judy. If you've already done Barbara, I pick Judi Dench singing as Sally Bowles and cabaret. You know she. Sally Bowles, right, Susan.
- [45:24]
A
Of course I know. She played Sally.
- [45:26]
B
Right, right.
- [45:28]
A
One of these days we'll meet in person and I will explain to you my childhood.
- [45:32]
B
And because I, I went through, like a phase of reading every, every line that Judi Dench ever wrote about her career and her life. I wish I could have been there for that. And then I went and found, like, her and Ian McKellen, you know, recording.
- [45:49]
A
Recorded the Macbeth with. Right. With her. With her silent scream. So good.
- [45:53]
B
I mean, so, yeah, it would have to be Judy.
- [45:55]
A
Let's do that. I mean, happy to do Barbara if you want. I, I always do repeats on here as well. But if you want to do Judi Dench, I don't think we've actually ever done Judi Dench. So we can do her.
- [46:04]
B
Judy, as Sally Bowles.
- [46:05]
A
Judy. Sally Bowles. It is fantastic. We'll either have her do the title song or we'll have her do Don't Tell Mama. She's ferocious in both.
- [46:13]
B
Okay.
- [46:13]
A
All right, Wonderful. Thank you so much, Susan. Thank you so much for listening, guys. Give us a nice 5 star rating or review if you like the podcast and check back later this week for our next Tony episode. And that'll be it for now. Thank you so much for listening, guys. Take it away, Judy.
- [46:28]
B
Bye. As for me, as for me, I made my money mind up back in Chelsea. When I go, I'm going like llc. Start by cat merching from Crack It.