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Hi guys, it's Matt, your favorite, least famous and most opinionated Broadway podcast host. The episode for Cat's the Jellicle Ball will start very soon, but I wanted to give you guys a quick update on some developments that have been happening. I didn't know about this until after I recorded the episode or recorded the next two episodes, ones that'll follow this one. So you'll have little pre taped sequence segments for me to look forward to as those developments continue. As some of you might know, this is July and at the end of the month BroadwayCon will be happening at the Marriott Hotel in New York city. This is July 26th through July 28th and Broadway podcast Network, the network that hosts Broadway Breakdown, is having a day there. A section of the day From I believe 10am to 6pm and a few podcasts from the network will be doing hour long live episodes there. And as of this this morning we have been informed that Broadway that. Sorry, that Broadway Breakdown will be doing an hour there. So that's really fun. There will be a live hour of Broadway breakdown at BroadwayCon. I can't say too much right now because there's still some details to finagle such as what time of the day exactly we'll be recording sometime between 10am and 6pm and who my guest will be. This is something that Broadway Podcast Network and myself have been been trying to negotiate and get a feeling for because this is going to be sort of like an hour long traditional Broadway Breakdown episode. Like very classique. We are going to have a show that we are going to break down over the course of an hour. So it's like a bite sized breakdown, not your usual three hour dissertation. The idea is that the guest and I will confirm four shows that we are comfortable talking about. And you guys know that I'm comfortable, comfortable talking about a lot of shows. But not every guest knows absolutely everything. So we want to make sure that they have four shows that they're really in for. And everyone who attends the live taping will get to vote for one of the four shows that they want to hear us talk about and put it like in a bowl or whatever, like write it down, a little piece of paper, put it in there and then at the very start of the taping we will pick a slip live on mic and whichever slip we pick is the one that we will talk about. So we will make sure to let you guys know once the guest is confirmed, once the time is confirmed what four shows are and if you have a preference for any of them, you know, hopefully we'll see you there at BroadwayCon, and you can make your voice heard and bring your friends and make sure that that voice is heard in multiples. Voting matters. Every vote matters. And yes, that is a loaded statement and I mean it fully. So for this one, which is very low stakes as more information comes out, I will update you all with each passing episode as we lead up to BroadwayCon. But it will be July 27th. That is a Saturday. So stay tuned on the podcast and on my Instagram, and I will let you guys know more about exactly what time of day, who the guest is, and what the four show options will be. But in the meantime, let's just be excited. Broadway Breakdown is going to have a live episode at BroadwayCon. And yes, the audio will eventually be available on the podcast itself. So let's just, you know, shriek for joy. And that's it for now. Let's get into Cats. The Jellicle Ball category is Bring it to the Runway. Category is stars, statements and legends. Tens, tens, tens across the board. Hold that pose for me. Dj, start the music. Hello, all you theater lovers both out and proud and on the DL. And welcome back to Broadway Breakdown, a podcast discussing the history of unt legacy of American theater's most exclusive address, Broadway. I am your host, Matt Koplik, the least famous and most opinionated of all the Broadway podcast hosts. And we've got another theater update for y'. All. Last time you heard my dumb voice, I told you that I had gotten a last minute invitation to go see Cats, the Jellicle Ball at the Perlman Arts center downtown in the Financial District. And so I saw it and, and I was debating whether to do a written review for this on Instagram, a video review or a podcast episode. And I did a poll on Instagram and y' all really did not help me out. It was very spread across the board. There was a bit more of a majority for a podcast episode, but not a wide majority, let me tell you. I think we. We ultimately got somewhere between three and 400 votes and podcast got the most by like 20 votes. 20, 25 votes. It was evenly distributed. So it didn't help me, but I decided to do the podcast instead because much as I know people enjoy reading the reviews on Instagram and it probably would help me to do more posts on Instagram just to get eyes on and get that traction to come to the podcast. Ultimately, they're really difficult to do. You don't have a lot of space. You have to really kind of Figure out exactly what you want to say in as little as few slides as possible, because you only really get 9. The 10th slide is your title page, and you can't make the print too small because then no one's going to read it. So you don't. The reviews are very short and they don't cover everything. And I would like to cover a lot for this. Now, I may still write something at some point, I don't know, tbd. I reserve the right to change my mind at any given moment. And I just recorded the episode on the first episode back of Problematic, which will be coming out in two weeks. Literally today, everything's out of order. We've got this episode now, a different episode next week, and then the first episode back of Problematic after that. And I do talk a little bit about cats in that problematic episode. So if you hear me repeat myself in two weeks, I apologize, but it's what's on the brain. So we're gonna do this podcast episode and really just sort of get into it. But before we do any of that, I have some housekeeping to talk to you all about. First of all, we have two new reviews and we're totally gonna read them. I think we're gonna read them at the end of the episode this time because they're two five star reviews and you folks who wrote them did a really lovely job and you made my mom smile. So thank you for that. And since you clearly enjoy the podcast, why not enjoy the podcast and then enjoy your roses at the end? And the other thing I want to say is, last episode I had spoken about doing some kind of communal chat for listeners of the podcast because many of you reach out to me on Instagram with your thoughts on episodes, with information you have on maybe something that I got wrong or something that you didn't know, or something personal about your own experience with the show, or you send me photos of your memorabilia, which is great. And many of you have also reached out to me in the last couple of months because we've gotten some new listeners. Say hi to the new uncultured fucks, everybody. We got some new listeners who have reached out to me from the uk, from Mexico, Brazil, Sweden, even just the United States, Midwest, whatever places where people who don't have a community around them to really geek out about theater, to share their loves, to learn more about it, to discuss how they felt about the episode this week or a past episode or anything like that. And you all are very intelligent and insightful and kind, and I would love for you all to get to know each other if. If you don't already, I don't know. None of you have expressed that you talk to each other to me. So if you do, you're making me feel left out. But we are starting a group chat. We are starting a Discord channel. Many of you reached out to me to tell me when I asked about possible ways to start a communal chat, many of you said Discord was the best option. A few of you said Facebook group. And then one person said another app that I can't remember now, but it was like the only. You were the only person who recommended that. So I went out of sight, out of mind. A lot of you have told me about Discord. So we have set up a Discord channel and you can find the invitation link in the description for this episode. And I will continue having links to the Discord channel for every episode in the future. Next week's episode, you will not hear me mention the Discord channel because we recorded that episode before I made it so. But the link will be there next week in the in the description page and I'll make sure to also share it on Instagram. I just ask that everyone who does decide to join really does use it for that purpose. I'm sure. I have friends who listen to the podcast and I know you guys love me and. But please don't go to the Discord to troll me. You know, you have my phone number. Just troll me that way, you know. Sorry, I'm making myself laugh. I already had a glass of wine today, and it's a lighter episode because we're talking about Cat's the Jellicle Ball, so why not? You guys have been very patient. It's been six minutes already. I also want to say I'm sorry about any sound issues that come up in this episode. Anytime I do solo episodes, I do it with my blue Snowball mic in my room, attached to my computer recording on GarageBand. And even though I put earbuds in to listen to myself, I can't hear when the microphone's popping or when there are little shifts here and there that go on in the audio. I don't hear that until the episode actually just airs. And I don't know why that is. I don't know why it doesn't pick up on my earbuds. I don't know why I can't hear it on GarageBand, but I can't. I can't hear it until it's literally dropped on Apple or Spotify or Anything like that. So I'm putting the mic further away from me and I'm trying to project without super popping my peas. But also, we're living and learning, so things are going to happen and I apologize, but if you're driving while listening to this, assume you did not hit a beaver or a deer. It's just my mic being a really nasty bitch. So with that in mind, let us get into Cats, the Jellicle Ball. So I don't know how many of you were aware of this production happening, but this was announced almost a year ago. I want to say the Perelman Arts center is a new performing arts space in Manhattan. Again, it's located in the financial district. It's right on the site of 911 of the world Trade Center. And it's a very fascinating space. It's the best way I can describe it. It reminded me a bit of the Bridge Theater in London where Guys and Dolls is playing. If you don't know that, the Bridge Theater is a very flexible space. It can be done as a proscenium, it can be done as a thrust, it can be done in the round. I don't know if Perlman Arts center totally can be done as a proscenium, but it can definitely be done in the round. It's got three levels of gallery seating, plus you could do floor seating. The stage is very flexible. And for this, for cast, the Jellicoe Ball, it is done in a major, major thrust, Runway style seating. I do not know how many of you feel about Cats the musical. We have an episode on the musical, if you want to listen to that, with friend of the Pod, Amanda Lee Hawkins. That's from about two years ago. Two, three years ago, I want to say. Two years ago. It's two years ago. And you know, Amanda and I have thoughts about it. My history with Cats, I feel like this is the best way to kind of get into my feeling about this production. My introduction to Cats was as a child, as I'm sure it was for many of us. I am a child of New York and a theater lover. And no one in my family would take me to it because they had all seen it in the 80s and everyone hated it. And it's become this sort of international, both phenomenon and joke. And it's important that we say that as we get into this production. And they released a VHS of the stage show rug. Really useful group released a VHS that was sort of meant to be like the ultimate cast preservation of the staging and whatnot. And they added little Special effects. And Elaine Page is Grizabella. Ken Page is Old Deuteronomy. A friend of mine who I know from Stagedoor manor is the Mr. Mistoffelees, Jacob Brent. He was a director at Stagedoor when I was a camper there and we've remained friendly since then. And that VHS was actually very important to me for a while. I really enjoyed it when I would watch it as a kid. I think it came out when I was about 8 and I really enjoyed a lot of the music. I thought that the dancing was really cool, the visuals were cool. It's also a very well made movie. The filming, the editing, it's all put together really well and I really, really wanted to see the show. And it was closing. About two years later it was closing. And Fran, my grandfather's second wife, God bless her, said, I think it's important for Matt to see this. As a connoisseur of theater, he needs to have seen the original production of Cats. So she took me. Liz Calloway was our Grizabella. And I've mentioned this on the podcast before, but I knew that VHS very well and there were still things about the stage production that threw me. For example, Growl Tiger's Last Stand is not on the VHS of Cats. For those of you who don't know, normally in Cats, or I should say in the original incarnation of Cats, Act 2 has a song at the top of the act called Gus the Theater Cat. And it's beautiful, it's a really lovely song. And in the middle of the song, Gus kind of flashes back to his youth and does this essentially 11 minute operetta performance called Growltiger's Last Stand. And it's dumb, it's silly, it's not really important, and there are even some racist tropes in there. But what was cool about it was the back wall of the set opened up like a pop up book and became a ship. You can actually watch this a bit on Aurora, Spider Woman's channel. They have a video of Growltiger's Last Stand. It's not the best quality, so you don't get a total sense of how it worked, but you get an idea. You can see the set coming down to the floor. It truly was like the wall just folded out and. And all of a sudden there was a whole new set on stage. It was very, very cool. So that was surprising to me. I also didn't realize how immersive the original production was at the Winter Garden Theater. They really just gutted it and made everything in There look like a garbage yard. And everything was at cat eye level and scale. And at the end of the show, for those of you who watch the vhs, when, when Grizabella is picked up as the Jellicle, who gets to go to the Heaviside layer? And the tire rises. In the vhs, you know that tire rises like six feet. It's cool, but it's not like insane. And a claw comes from the side of the stage to bring Grizabella up to the heavy side layer. So that's how I always knew that effect worked. And everyone knows about the tire. The tire rises, the tire comes down now at the Winter Garden Theater. And apologies if you've heard me talk about this on past episodes, but it's relevant today. That tire did rise about, honestly, more than 6ft, probably like 8 to 10ft. So that was already impressive. Then it started to move forward, which I didn't expect. And then the ceiling above my head opened up and that is where the claw came out. Not from the side of the stage above my goddamn 10 year old head. And when I tell you that I fell, I on the floor. I'm not, I'm. I'm not joking, bitch. I was on the floor. I was gobsmacked. I. I thought I knew that show inside and out. I was prepared for everything. And that just blew my mind. And it still has blown my mind. And no revival of the show can come close to it because the money that is needed for that kind of a spectacle just people are not willing to invest anymore. There was a revival of cats in 2018, I think 2018, 2017. They did it at the Neil Simon Theater. And it was a transplant of the revival that they did in the West End a year or two earlier. And it's really just. It was a watered down version of the original. The set on stage was exactly the same, but there was no environmental design around the theater. They had some light bulbs, they had a couple of pieces of trash here and there, but it was not the same renovation that was at the Winter Garden. And also because of that, a lot of the effects were not as interesting. They did cut Growltiger's Last Stand and it wasn't as special. It felt very much like we've been here before, we've done this before. The time has passed. Cats is no longer now and forever. And that is sort of how a lot of people have felt about the show for a long time. And it didn't help that the movie version happened and is a notorious disaster. Cats is one of those musicals where actually one of those pieces of culture where it was so prominent and so successful immediately and also just as immediately became a joke. Like it became a phenomenon in the UK almost instantaneously and arrived in New York already with a huge multi million dollar advance. And everyone was interested in it. It was popping up in locations all over the world. And no sooner than had it won the Tony Award and the Olivier Award, that it became a punching bag. Partly because it was so successful, but also because it was kind of ridiculous. And it is. Cats as a musical on paper is a ridiculous idea. And even in execution, a little bit like it is. It is very odd and very earnest. And it's almost best to think of that original production as like a piece of performance art. It is a 2 hour and 20 minute, almost plotless musical about dancing cats, about dancing horny cats set to the poems of a renowned English writer, poet, dramatist, with music by the dude who gave you Jesus Christ Superstar. So it's a funky show, it's not high art, but it's also not the dumbest thing. Like it's a little too weird and a little too avant garde to be safe kitty fare. I think it's easy for people to say that now because it has done so well with families, but at the time it was very much a risk. Now it's no longer a risk. Everyone knows memory, so many of those songs are everywhere. And it's. It's now sort of considered a symbol of the Reagan Thatcher era of just opulence and shallowness and coldness. So we say all of this to bring us back to this current production of Cats, the Jellicle Ball. Now, why is it called Cats? The Jellicle Ball and not just Cats? Because this production does not set it in a junkyard. The performers aren't even cats. This production of Cats is set in Harlem ballroom culture. If you don't know what that is, it's. It's. Ballroom is something that has been around in the United states since the 1700s, honestly. And it was sort of redefined and revived in the seventies in New York City through a few different drag queens and trans women of color. The most famous name of the bunch is Crystal labeija. And you can see Crystal labeija in this. It's not a great documentary, but the ending is great because you can see the birth of ballroom culture happening right there. Crystal labeija was a drag queen of color who was tired of entering these drag beauty pageants in midtown and losing to white queens who she thought were inferior to her and were only winning because they were white. And you see this in the documentary. I think it's called the Queen. Yeah, it's called the Queen. And Krystal and one of her friends loses to a new girl in town who's, like, 23 and very beautiful. Like, it's a very. She's a very stunning queen, but she's also very simple queen. She's very much going for elegant realness. She's not going for extravagance. It's a very simple makeup. It's a very simple hair design. And this is the Queen that wins. And Krystal does not have it. Krystal is shouting up a storm, telling her her makeup is terrible. I'm not saying she's not beautiful, but she wasn't beautiful tonight. And from there on in, Krystal and her chosen family revived the ballroom culture in Harlem to elevate the artistry of the bipoc community. And it's not just limited to drag queens. It's also trans women, trans men, cisgender women, cisgender queer men. And in a ball, there are House of Labeija, House of Extravaganza, House of Gucci, House of Ninja. You can see a lot of this in the documentary Paris is Burning, which is one of the greatest documentaries of all time. And it's also just required viewing if you're gonna be a Drag Race fan, like a RuPaul's Drag Race fan, because the number of references to Paris is Burning in Drag Race is just immeasurable. I mean, starting with the library is open, you know, reading, reading for filth Touch this skin, darling and you by. And there's also a. There was a competition on HBO for a while. I forgot what it was called, But Jameela Jamil, who was on the Good Place, she was one of the judges on it, along with Megan Thee Stallion. And it's not great that they were judges for this ball TV show, but it does sort of give you an idea of how modern ballroom culture is today. It's still very prominent, and ballroom culture had a major impact on pop culture. Madonna incorporated a lot of elements of Harlem ballroom into her, into her art, into her music, into her music videos. Vogue comes from ballroom, and you can claim its appropriation, you can claim its inclusion, or it's, you know, elevating its exposure. It's sort of all the things. But that is what that. What that. You know, that is what that community is, what that environment is. And that is what cats, the jellicle Ball is covering it is the material of Cats, the Andrew Lloyd Webber feline phenomenon set in Harlem ballroom culture. So you are often going to hear category is because in ballroom you walk the floor, you walk the ballroom for your category. And it can be businesswoman realness, it can be butch queen realness, things like that. And every category walks, does their, does their bit. And it can be fashion, it can be dance, it can be just simple beauty. So the very fact that its category is just know that this production emphasizes the cat in category is very much a silly play on words. So this production was announced a little while ago and everyone was trepidatious about it. There were some of us who were like, that is either going to be brilliant or that is going to be a disaster. And I don't think it's because of the concept so much as that it's Cats. And no one really has high hopes for Cats anymore. You hear a production happening and either you are a die hard fan and you're thrilled to see your favorite musical back, elitists be damned, or, you know, maybe you're someone like me who had a love for it at one point it's kind of faded and you're begrudgingly going, okay, it's back and there are things to enjoy, but I'm not super thrilled. Or you're someone who's always hated it and you're just rolling your eyes and you're looking for the next bus. And the word on the street from very early previews was that this was something very special. And almost as soon as I was looking into tickets, the reviews came out, which have pretty much all been raves. And I got very fortunate to get an invitation for someone on the creative team at the very last minute. So I sat at a table with one of the members of the team. I'm not sure if I'm allowed to say his name or not. I probably can. Cooper Howell. He's the associate director. I sat with him and another friend of his who's an associate director. And we sat with the one and only Tony winning, Grammy winning, Emmy winning, Oscar nominated Cynthia Erivo. Yes, you heard it here. Your beloved, uncultured fuck. Matt Koplik sat with Cynthia Erivo at Cats, the Jellicoe Ball. She was brought in. She came to see the show, obviously. But at our table is where two guests get to be guest judges for Cast the Jellicoe Ball. And I'll sort of explain more on that in a second. But because of Cooper, I was able to see the show again, very last minute, but had a prime seat. Had a prime seat, mate. And, yeah, that's how we are entering this, this evening with Cats. And I'll put you guys out of your misery. I'll get into the details in a moment. But I'll just say off the bat, I adored this production so much. First of all, it was theatrical, it was entertainment, but it also was really thrillingly original and creative and incorporated all the things that they spoke of with ballroom and paying homage to it and honoring its history and its cultural impact and its legacy, while still being a theatrical entertainment and having a bit of a story. I mean, as much of a story as Cats can have, while also kind of being respectful of the original material. And I'll talk about that in a moment. But I was very surprised. I was expecting to have fun. I was really expecting to just enjoy myself, and I absolutely did. But I was incredibly impressed with. With the meticulous work that everyone in the show does. And it's very easy for the blind eye to come into the show and watch it and not realize just how much work and effort went into it, because it does look so organic. It looks like they're coming up with stuff on the spot that it's very much a. Everyone have a drink backstage and let's. Kiki. No, no, no. This is a company that's working extraordinarily hard. This is a production team that planned it down to the last detail. And the fact that so many people can't clock that is major props to everyone involved. So let's have a round of applause for all of them. I also want to say that what was so fascinating about this was it was a concept that everyone was like, oh, so we're just fucking around then? We're fucking around and finding out with Cats, and probably a lot of things are going to get changed. A lot of things are going to be altered. That isn't really the case. This is probably my favorite revival of a musical, and I know I have Cynthia Erivo on the brain, but since the Color Purple, because both productions do what I wish revivals would always do, which is making something feel incredibly fresh, making material come alive again without doing all that much work to it. And not every musical is created equal. You don't treat, you know, the Color Purple with the same production aspect that this production of Cats did in the same way that I've talked about before. You don't revive Carousel the same way. You're reviving hello, Dolly. It's. Every musical is built differently and you have to approach it with. As the musical that it is and figure out how do we make an audience come to it, how do we get them excited about this? The same way audiences were excited when it first premiered. And so for Color Purple, that was John Doyle, the master of simplicity, sort of recognizing that this is a very intimate story and it doesn't need all the sets and ensemble and dancing. That actually kind of detracts from the beauty of this story. We are going to give it the might of a thousand winds with its musicality. That is still the best sung production I've ever seen and will most likely ever see. But it is a simple story. And so it was very simple set and very simple staging, and it really brought out the potency of. Of the novel. And that is what works for Color Purple. Hello Dolly was given two fresh coats of paint, a little bit of cocaine, $20 million and opulence. And that is what hello Dolly needed. Cats. Because it is carrying around such a stigma around it, you can't really revive it as it once was. It's. That's. It's no longer special. Everyone knows it that way. That's also the double edge sort of packaging these shows as international properties. Having, you know, plopping down the same production everywhere in the world means everyone knows what the show looked like the first time and has their own preconceived notions about it. And while Cats was incredibly successful, as we've said, it wasn't exactly responsible, expected. It's one thing to do a whole new vibe with Les Miserables. A lot of people have very specific feelings about the original staging and design. Lord knows we've been seeing it with the Phantom fans. When Cameron McIntosh shut down the English production, the West End production, and did a whole new revamp for it, Cats people aren't really that tied to it. I mean, I know it's. It's probably some of its fandom is, but the rest of us aren't necessarily sitting around going, you know, you must do the Trevor Nunn, Gillian Lynn staging, or else, why do it? What this production does is go, okay, we need to throw audiences again in the same way this show threw them in the early 1980s, and we need to get them excited about what's happening on stage and the way that audiences were excited in London when it first opened. And the directors of the show. Let me get my playbill, remember their names, give their proper due. The directors. Oh, fuck. I'm sorry. I'm gonna. I'm going to mispronounce your names. And I really apologize. I should have prepared and that's on me. So sorry, everyone. I'm not as professional as I claim. Zaylan Levingston and Bill Rauch are the directors, and then Arturo Lyons and Omari Wiles are the choreographers. And it's very cool to watch how they approach the show because not a lot of material has changed here. It is a balance of having a vision and respecting the original material because you lean too heavily on one side or the other. And then ask yourself, why even bother doing it if you're not going to really lean into the ballroom culture that you claim is your vision? Why say this is your vision if you are going to fuck around with the material so much? Why even bother doing Cats? You know, that's how I feel. Whenever productions cut multiple songs and scenes and rewrite the book, when you think you're fixing a show, you're never actually fixing it. The only person who came close, as I said before, was Hal Prince and Hugh Wheeler with Candide. And even that while that has become the template for Candide now, there are still people who claim that the original Lillian Hellman libretto was better and prefer the original version of lyrics from the 1950s production, troubled as it was. So you never please everyone. And no one ever fully signs on to the narrative of a show ever being fixed. So these. This creative team did not aim to fix Cats. They left it pretty much the fuck alone. They cut the song peaks in the pollicles, which honestly snip, snip. Anyway, all the other songs are there they are in the order in which they were originally presented. The only lyrics that have been changed are some of the pronouns, he to she, she to he, he, she to them or they. And like, it's totally like you don't notice it if you. If you only have a passing knowledge of the score, you wouldn't notice those things. It. I know the score better than I want to admit, so I did. But it. It doesn't matter. It's just. It works perfectly fine. Otherwise, it's untouched. And they will do things in the production with the performers, with the cats, with the Jellicle Cats, where it absolutely just fits with no alterations needed. And it's fascinating to watch this concept just sort of sit perfectly with the show. There are a couple of moments where it's a little bit of a tougher fit. They have a plotline with Macavity where it's very similar to Elektra in the first episode of Pose. If you've watched Pose. The very first scene is Elektra's house robbing a museum to use the Elizabethan garb for their ball. And we get the sense that that's sort of what Macavity is doing. When Macavity ends up walking the Runway for their category in Act 2 with the song Macavity. But we don't really understand why people. There's a there. It's a little. I'll say. It's a little confusing because before that number, when Macavity is teased once or twice, we're not sure what Macavity's vibe is because they're referred to, but we're like, is it scary? Is it annoyance? We don't know. I think the ultimate idea is that Macavity is sort of annoying. They love Macavity. Macavity is part of the Jellicle group, but Macavity breaks the law. Macavity is messy. And they ultimately have. Instead of Macavity kidnapping old Deuteronomy like in the original, what happens is Macavity gets caught by the cops with stealing costume pieces for their Runway, and old Deuteronomy takes the fall for it all. Silently, of course. It's all done with staging, and the cops take Deuteronomy away, and then Mistoffeles is the one who brings Deuteronomy back with their magique. So it's. It's. It's not that it's a stretch. Hold on. Excuse me. It's not that it's a stretch. It's just. It doesn't fit as naturally as the rest of the show does. So it's just. It's a little more noticeable. Like, it's. It's the equivalent of squeezing size 9ft into size 8 shoes. They. They get in there and to. If you stand far enough away, they do fit. But, like, you can feel a bit of pinching there. And I wouldn't say that this. This as a criticism, because, as I said, it doesn't not work. It's just. It's the part of the show that works the least in a production where pretty much everything else works. The. God, I'm sorry. I'm all over the place. I don't even know where to go to now. Actually, you know what let's do? While I gather my thoughts and continue talking about this production, let us take a quick break. Billy, I beg to differ with you. How do you mean? You're the top. Yeah. You're an arrow collar. You're the top. You're a Coolidge dollar. You're the nimble tread of the feet of Fred Astaire. And we're back. So I took a moment to stop and reflect and have a little sip of which might have been counterproductive. Unclear. We'll see what happens in the second half. But I thought maybe I'll just sort of start from the beginning and we can make our way through. The design of the space is again, it's. It's thrust based Runway and there are three levels of. Of tiers of mezzanine, I suppose, and then seating on the ground floor as well as sort of stadium seating at the head of the Runway. And there are tables on the floor that you can sit on and along the Runway. And all the action is happening sort of all over the space. And they are in on the joke from the very beginning. And Jesse Green mentioned this in his review, so it's not really a spoiler, but There is a DJ this production. And the show begins with the DJ coming to the stage, looking through albums like Literal LPs, whipping out the LP of the Broadway cast recording of Cats, opening it and then blowing the dust off. But the dust is actually stage glitter, like big chunky glitter. And it's really clever and really cute and already sets the tone. And then they play the overture on their record player and it blasts through the theater and it's the overture we all know and love. They haven't really done much to it musically, and that's true of the score in general. Not only have they not really fucked with the. With the material, they haven't fucked that much with the arrangements for this Cats. It mostly sounds like the Cats, you know, there are a couple of moments where they'll incorporate some club beats in there, some. Some 80s vibes and like no mid 2000s vibes, I guess. But I would say it's more 80% the cats, you know, and 20% some funky stuff mixed in there. Nothing to overwhelm, just to kind of give it a little light spin. I mean, there's some hardcore soprano work going on in this company and it's important to mention that really, I think that is very clever. I was talking to a friend about this last week who, who was very hesitant to see this just because they hate Cats so much. And I think they wanted something that was a complete overhaul. And I think that is the wrong way to approach any new production of an old piece. You don't want to do a total overhaul because then why do the show? Right? As we mentioned before, the best revivals bring something out of the Material already. They're not a complete makeover. And the people who want a complete makeover, the people who just don't like the show to begin with, and then it's like, well, then just don't go. But I think curiosity is gonna get a lot of people to come into the theater for this one. But they were saying, like, oh, I don't want it to sound like the cats that everyone knows. I want it to sound completely like that environment, like that ballroom culture stuff. And I was like, it's in there. But already Cats as a piece is so bonkers musically. Like, it's funky music. It's truly the last time Andrew Lloyd Webber got weird as a composer. And I. You know, connecting that to his compositions for Evita and for Jesus Christ Superstar. I mean, so much of the recitative and Evita is something he would never write today. To think that a man as famous as you are. What's that you? Was that. What's that you. You reject a girl you love? Something like that. Those are the words, yeah. Or things like, dice are rolling, the knives are out. It's just weird things. Then Jesus Christ Superstar. Quick, Caiaphas. They're right outside our yard. It's just weird, weird compositions that you would never hear in Phantom, that you would never hear in Sunset. Like, Sunset. People talk about them thinking it's Webber's best score and he has some beautiful music in there, but it's not dark enough. It's not weird enough. He also doesn't know when to make the actors stop singing. It's a constant struggle in that show. And I'm interested to see this current revival because from what I understand, they do cut some stuff and also, like, kind of fuck with it a lot. It's fascinating that Andrew Lloyd Webber is getting this major resurgence in public opinion right now with two separate productions that just totally fuck with his material and that he's allowing it, I think, only because they're selling and critically acclaimed. If they did not sell well, I don't think he would stand by them, but they are. So he's just, like, keeping his, you know, Tory mouth shut. But I say this with Cats, right? Like, the. The music, I think, is. It's clever. They don't totally overhaul the music because the production already is so different from what people know that they need to sort of give some sense of not normalcy, but of the familiar. So that way people have something to hold onto as they go on this wild ride with everything else. And the show's choreography incorporates musical Theater structure with movement that we associate with ballroom, with voguing, and as Vanessa Hodgins calls, like the kablam, the shablams, you know, where you do like your death drops and whatnot. But they are done with a very keen eye to building numbers, to having ebbs and flows throughout the whole production. So nothing is overwhelming all the time. For every moment that there is, you know, everyone wanting to stand up and snap their fingers and shout, slay the house down, boots mama. And they tell you at the top, like, very much be involved in the show. Give us your feedback, your vocal feedback. There are also truly quiet, pensive moments and some moments of gravitas. The guest judge moment is two members of the. Of the audience get to sit at opposite ends of what is essentially a judges table, a throne almost. And they have little panels that say meow. I think it's meow chop and purr. I think like purr, fect. And they are the guest judges for a while until Deuteronomy shows up. And Deuteronomy becomes the Billy Porter judge of all judges. And it doesn't really matter what the guest judges say or do. Like, they can give their opinions, but the people who have to win each category are going to win those categories no matter what the judges say. And it's just a bit of fun audience interaction, you know, the moments of Gravitas. So first of all, there is Andre de Shields as old Deuteronomy, wearing very majestic royal purples and mauves and a wig the size of Jupiter. It is huge. It is ginormous, and it's great. It's like a mane almost. It is reminiscent of the mane of Deuteronomy in most productions of Cats because they are regal and they are larger than life. And Andre is a very still performer in this, very calm and centered because they are the oldest, they are the wisest, and they are the one with the most power. And they take it very seriously. It's the. It's the typical. A king doesn't act like a king. It's how everyone acts around them that makes you know they're a king. Andre does not do anything imperious so much as that. They are just so centered and they've got nothing to prove. Also sounds great. There are two moments of true heft in the show. At the top of Acts 2, after Deuteronomy has watched Grizabella do their first version of Memory and we come back from intermission, they sing Moments of Happiness, which is a song that I'll be Honest has always been a skip for me. In Cats, it's a very slow ballad, and it's right before Gus the theater cat, which is really the second best ballad in the show after Memory. Memory is obviously the banger, but Gus is the one that can really emotionally affect you. And in this production, what they do is they have a scrim. It's more like a scroll, but it acts as a projection screen almost, that rises from the floor as Deuteronomy is singing Moments of Happiness. And they project photos and I think even video of the trans women, the drag queens, and the queer men who revived and reshaped ballroom culture in the 70s and 80s, as well as our queer brothers and sisters from Stonewall. We see Crystal labeija, I think we see Venus Extravaganza. And it is a very potent feeling of these souls that are no longer with us, who gave us so much. Some lived a good amount of time. Some were cut off far too young from this world. And it gives that song a real realistic weight that I never really got from it before. And I think because the original Cats was really just trying to be, well, slightly avant garde, escapist piece of theater. Frank Rich, in his review said, like, what it does so successfully is that it takes you away to a world that only theater can take you to. Whether it's a good world is up to you, but, like, it works very hard to get you there. And this production doesn't necessarily take you away from the real world. The real world is prominent in it, but it is a heightened, joyous world. And it's a very tricky balance that they have to pull off. And I appreciate it. My mind is sort of all over the place, because ultimately what it comes down to is that it's the feeling you get from a show that is hard to describe. You have to sort of just experience it for yourself. It's a joy. It's a fiery energy, and it's. It's an exhilaration that you only get from a theatrical experience that really transports you. I talked about this last week with the Follies concert in Titanic at Encores, how people use really big words a lot to describe things that maybe don't deserve it. It could have been real for them. They could have truly felt transported. They could have felt like it was heavenly and perfect and legendary, iconic, the moment. But the proof is in the pudding. You know, something ends and we're not talking about it anymore. I'm recording this on June 30th. Titanic has been over for a week. It's not really being discussed anymore. I believe there's talk of a cast recording happening, which would be lovely. It's a large orchestra and a great cast, and we would love to have another recording of that score. But all talks of like, it must go to Broadway. This is too important and too magical to only last these two weeks. Which wasn't coming from everyone, but it was online chatter that's all kind of died. And we're all up on Cats now and oh Mary now running. And that's not to take anything away from Follies or Titanic or Jelly's Last Jam or any Off Broadway shows this past season, or Teeth, you know, things like that. It just sort of shows you how audiences can be very flippant with their praise and their very big words, and they might think they have meant it in the moment, but they hold not a lot of water in the end when three weeks later, they're not talking about it anymore. To be a little judgmental of the generation below me, but it's sort of how Gen Z and the I think Gen Alpha is the generation after Gen Z now. When you're a young theater kid, whatever the next show is, that season is your new obsession. And I know I was guilty of it when I was a kid, but also the things that really meant a lot to me stuck with me and I had no problem talking about them for a long time. As Ali Gordon and I have said many times on the podcast Podmother of Breakdown. Ali Gordon, we talked about Amadeus to all of our friends and angels in America to all of our friends, till we were blue in the face and they were sick of us and we still kept doing it. And I was very much in love with Grey Gardens when it came out. I still love Grey Gardens the following season. I definitely had a love for South Pacific, and that probably replaced Great Gardens in my heart at the time. But it's a little different now. The younger theater fans really go with a passion for one show every season. They go really deep into it, really hard on it, and then the next show, the next season, there's another show that takes over with that same fervor. And I always just wonder, can you really be obsessed? Can you really be in love with the show? Can it really be that impactful for you? If it's so easy for another show to come into your heart like that a year later? I'm sure there's room for both, but it's a very. There's a difference between expanding your brain and expanding your heart to more art that moves you and fully having a new focus. And I think that's more a statement on the art itself that it maybe doesn't have as deep of a hook into people as you might think when it is the new kid on the block. And who knows what will happen with Cats when it eventually closes in August. I been hearing talk from people on the creative team about where the next steps are. It'll be tricky for a transfer to Broadway just because of the design of it, but never say never. These things have a way of working out if they're meant to work out. But I can imagine that once it closes, it's something that we're not going to keep talking about at least till the end of the year. It's just so interesting and so different and very much feels like a cultural moment in New York City, a thing that everyone's talking about and wants to go to or at least is interested in. My own mother, who saw the original production of Cats right when it opened and left at intermission and has never desired to see it ever again, has been talking to me about finding tickets for herself. And I think that is a huge statement to say for the. The creativity and the ingenuity of this production. Which brings us back to this production. I also want to do a quick shout out. We had a few understudies the night that we saw it. Most importantly, our Grizabella was an understudy, Garnett Williams. Garnett or Garnet. There's actually a liquor store near our apartment that's titled Garnet. So I don't remember if the performer calls themselves Garnet or Garnett. We'll say Garnett. Garnett Williams was on for Grizabella and they were just devastating. I think it was their second performance going on second or third performance. And the performer who normally plays Grizabella or usually plays Grizabella is a trans performer, I believe, Tempress. And so the keys have been altered a bit so that they can fit comfortably in Tempress's range. But Garnet, who's I think 25, I think Cooper said to me, has this rich tone to their voice that really fits that key well and also gives the character of Grizabella age and edge and weariness and worn down. They're portrayed as a former ball superstar who is very much a cast out. They're a little less rejected by the group in this production than in regular production of Cats. You'll see in the video or in the movie, everyone's always like, don't look at Grizabella, don't touch her. This production, from what I could recall, no one was fully anti Grizabella so much as it was like, well, she's kind of a bag lady now and it's sad and like if she wants to join us, she can. But like we're not gonna make a huge effort about it. There's the one cat who's always kind of big on Grizabella, but in general the company is sort of like, it's her, it's her. And it's sad, but they aren't necessarily spiteful from what I could remember. But her inclusion at the end is really moving. And the way they do memory is both a combination of diva worship and actual pathos. And it's a really impressive balance to have. I will not spoil how they do the Heaviside Lair. I will say I clocked it at intermission and Cooper was like, maybe you're right, maybe you're not. And I was totally right. And so when it was happening, I turned to him, I was like touching my nose, being like, hahahaha. I will also say the design in general for this production is very impressive. It is not expensive looking. It's obviously it cost money. But the costume design and the set design are not meant to be Broadway versions of ballroom. They are meant to be ballroom and they look it, which is great. It is a creative, beautiful mode of expression and I think that this production really captures that well. There's no way to do this kind of production and not have it be a little bit of a mainstream production version of ballroom. Not that I'm like the the judge of that, right? Like I'm a 30 something white Jewish boy from the Upper east side. I'm not here to tell you all how Crystal labeija does the labeija house well, how the house of Ninja can annihilate you with their synchronized movements. That's not for me really to tell you that. You can watch that yourself in Paris Burning. You can watch that anywhere online. But what I mean more is like the moment something becomes a commercial enterprise in New York City, it's not going to be documentary level realism. There's going to be a little bit of a give. So that way audiences not familiar can find a way in which is totally valid. You know, I don't think that you can really make a difference if you're forcing 100% unusual and unfamiliar to someone in their face and making them uncomfortable by it because then they're not absorbing it, they're not taking it in. They go into defense mode. You maybe massage it a little bit. So what they're getting is a slightly watered down version of what the truth is or what the root of the art is. But they get a good solid taste of it and it might make them want more. For example, I grew up not really being comfortable with drag. My family, while they are liberal Democrats, they're also socially conservative Jews from New York City. And they. They have no moral dislike to anything on the queer spectrum. But like, drag was always something that kind of made them uncomfortable and thus made me uncomfortable as a child, I think, because of the abrasiveness of it as a performance art. But I will say, as I got older and sort of experienced the world more on my own, and really what it was was getting into Drag Race at the tender age of 26, which is a very monetized mainstream enterprise at this point. And I did not get into the ground floor. I got in, I think, around season eight or nine. So it was well on its way to being well oiled machine. But that was my real entryway into understanding and appreciating it. And from there, you know, I went back to earlier seasons of Drag Race. I got into Paris Is Burning. I really had a new appreciate, a new appreciation for Divine. Divine was probably the only thing growing up that, like my family, openly appreciated in drag culture. My mom is and dad were fans of John Waters. My mom is a big fan of the original movie Hairspray and and just goes off and off about that movie all the time and loves Divine in that movie. So that was our one real exception with the drag stuff. But I've come to really love it and appreciate it, and my mom now has, too. I got my mom into Drag Race during lockdown. As I've mentioned before, she loves Jinkx Monsoon. We went to go see Jinx in Chicago the first time because my mom demanded we see Jinx's Broadway debut. She wants to go see Jinx do Carnegie hall now, so we'll see how that goes. And my mom has watched Paris Is Burning. She's watched We're Here on hbo. She really loves it. And I think the whole ballroom theme of this production is what's really exciting her about it. So there. She's not going to really be in Harlem in 1982, but she is going to get a taste of it, and it's going to give her a new sense of excitement and empathy for a walk of life that's not her own. And I think that is the beauty of theater, right? Something doesn't have to exactly mirror your experience for you to feel something. You should be able to feel something for another character living a different life than you, because you're both humans experiencing the world, and you can relate to an emotion they're having or a relationship that they have or a love that they have for a thing, and mirror that to something you love and your thing. And I think with this production of Cats, the Jellicle Ball, everyone can communally get on board with the energy and the vitality of it, even if they don't always understand the rules or understand the structure or the style. It is a world in which everyone is accepted and thus everyone can get on board. I think also what I really appreciate about this is it being a style of performance that many people don't see, and especially in a musical. So we have body types and vocal types and gender types that you aren't normally put on the forefront. And these are incredibly talented artists doing phenomenal work and work that we don't see done like this often. So that's exciting. It makes you feel truly like you're seeing something special. With some of the better musical enterprises this past year, strong as some of them were, there is a sense of the familiar with them. As much as I enjoyed the outsiders, 30 beautiful boys on stage, that's not anything new. We have seen that especially especially beautiful boys of that ilk, of that body type, of toned muscles and not a lot of body hair and slicked back hair on top of your head and chiseled features and very masculine energy, but like a light, poppy singing voice. It's great. We love it, but it's a dime a dozen at this point. What makes the outsider special is more what Donya Taymor does with it. With Cats, we have every body type known to man. We do have the toned, muscular Broadway boy, but we also have heavier performers. We have curvier. We've got, you know, rail thin performers. We have non binary transgender cisgender, everything under the sun and different vocal types. It's. You truly feel like every performer has their own niche in the production, which is great. No one's interchangeable and it allows everyone in the audience to grab onto a different performer for whatever reason. And I think that is what is another thing that makes it so special, you know, that we have such dynamic presences in this show, showing off what they can do, because on the largest stage, they probably have had at this point. And it's wonderful that theater, commercial theater, has opened the door for those talents to flourish. I think that is the kind of celebration of bipoc, non binary, queer, genderqueer, non conforming, whatever. There is the plight of those of those people in their journeys and that's not ever something to scoff at or ignore. But they are also not defined by their hardships. They can also be risen up by their greatness, by what makes them unique. And I think that is ultimately what the purpose of this production is with all of these characters. And I. And I genuinely love it. I also gotta say that I want to go back to ultimately what I said about revivals and what makes revival, what makes a great revival. And it's a blend of having an idea of how to honor the text while also make it fresh again. And this is a case where the production team could have fucked real hard with Andrew Lloyd Webber's material because it's. It's Cats. It's already a wild concept. So doing a wild production on top of it, and isn't that outlandish, but they have a lot of restraint. People like to overuse the word camp with, with performance and art. I feel like everyone involved with Bad Cinderella kept throwing that word around like they knew what it meant. It's like on It's Always Sunny in Philadelphia when Charlie writes the Night man cometh and he says it's a metaphor. And Dee goes, yeah, you keep saying that. I don't think you actually know what it means. And I feel that way about camp a lot. Camp is not intentional for the most part. Very few people can do knowing camp. I've said it before. Charles Bush and John Waters are two of the only artists I can think of who can do knowing camp. What Greta Gerwig did with Barbie, everything in Barbie landed at Mattel. That was knowing camp. You know, it was dumb and it was intentional dumbness and ridiculousness. That is not anything that's ever done in Cats. Cast the Jellicle Ball, I should say there is a lot of buffoonery, there is a lot of ridiculousness, but it is not camp because it is unapologetic. They are bold choices, they're not campy choices. They are opulent choices, they are not campy choices. Everyone is big. They are brash, but they are specific and they are focused and that is the difference. And I want everyone to know that if you go see this production, no one on stage is acting the fool. They can have a foolish time, but they never let you forget for a second that they are in Control of their body, of their instrument, and of their talent. They are choosing to let loose so we all can have a good time together. But this is not a sloppy day at the office. These are artists who worked very hard and will perform for you because it's what they're best at and because they choose to. Right. There's a difference between bold opulence and campy foolishness. There's a difference between. Actually, I take back saying buffoonery earlier because it's not that. It is. It is. What's the word I'm looking for? Like casual silliness, I guess. Non committal silliness. It's when you have nothing to prove because you have everything in your corner going for you. It's that kind of energy, it's confidence, but also not self serious. It is professional without being uptight. It is flamboyance without being a mess. And it's a very hard tightrope to walk. Not a lot of people are able to do it. And I think that this production accomplishes that so much of the time. And anytime that it doesn't accomplish that, it's not that they fall off the high wire or they miss the mark. It's as I said, it's just moments where the show Cats maybe doesn't fit in as perfectly with the vision as everything else, but we're talking like 90% of the time to 10% of the time. Compare this to when I was talking about fucking Merrily, which I think is a solid production of a very flawed show. And there are bumps in that production too. We don't have to go back into it. I've gone on about it already, but it's very rare that I walk away from a show and I don't have a moment that I thought could be tweaked a little bit. There aren't many moments in this that I think could use a look over again. And the moments that I think could use a look over aren't to fix, they're not to redo. It's just to like tighten, maybe find like an alternate moment or two, which is. That's also just like my personal opinion. It's entirely possible that the creative team have exactly the show they want and they're pleased as punch with it. And if they are, then I am. You know, it's overall such a magical and exciting production. I'm not gonna, you know, try to turn a couple of screws at the risk of making the whole table fall apart. Overall, what we gotta say is that Cat's the Jellicle Ball at the Perlman Art center is really a phenomenal surprise. And I'll say it again, my favorite musical revival since the Color Purple. There have been other wonderful ones in between. The most recent company hello Dolly, Once on this Island, My Fair Lady Parade, into the Woods. But this one really did for me what Color Purple did, what South Pacific did. Kiss me Kate in 1999, obviously. Carousel, guys and Dolls, the Tyne Daily and Angela Lansbury Gypsies. The revivals that really do revive a show, revive interest, revive respect, and revive creativity in it, make you view it anew and maybe even makes you enjoy the material again. Lord knows, when it was over, I kind of went back on my ipod and. Or, I'm sorry, my phone, because your iPad's now a part of your phone. But, like, went on my phone and listened to certain songs again. Like, listened to Skimbleshanks once or Twice and Mungo Jerry and Rumple Teaser. And I was like, yeah, no, these songs are bops. And I've always felt that they were bops. But the last revival happened and I went in to see Friends in it. And the overture happens. I'm like, yeah, like, this music's good. I forgot this music is good. And the opening number happens. I'm like, yeah, this is a good opening number. Like, I feel like we're always a little too harsh on this show. And then we get to the end of Jenny, Any Dots? And I'm like, oh, right, it's Jenny. This the entire time. It doesn't ever really change. It's just kind of constant. And somehow Cats, the Jellicle Ball is able to keep all of that and yet still make it exciting and fresh. Never drag, never makes you go, oh, it's just rinse and repeat. Like it's. You're always excited for the next thing. It keeps you engaged, and it's just enough fun to justify the length to justify doing the show again. And there's enough pathos in there to remind you that this didn't happen by accident. There was a lot of thought and craft that went into it. And for that, we salute everyone involved. So that's it for Cats, the Jellicle Ball. We are now wrapping up our episode today, and I want to truly wrap up with our two new reviews for the podcast. And then we will make way for next week's episode, which is an interview with the historian and writer Ben West. More on that next week. So we have our two reviews. Please cue the Light in the Piazza Overture five stars Chef's Kiss. I like to think that I contain more knowledge about Broadway and its history than most people, and this podcast never fails to entertain and educate me. Matt is beyond passionate about what he discusses, and this podcast is a spectacular find for the person who considers themselves a, quote, Broadway expert. It's also nice to get little peeks into Matt's personal life, especially because he's extremely attractive and I often think about kissing him. How do you know I'm attractive? This is a podcast, baby. Unless you follow me on Instagram, and even then, I wouldn't say I have much on there that shows that I'm attractive. But thank you. And thank you for saying you enjoy listening to Peaks of my personal life. I have a friend who listens to it, an older friend, and sometimes he'll email me and he'll be like, do you ever wonder when you talk about your life if anyone actually really cares to hear about it? And I'm like, well, not much I can do about it, Patrick. I'm getting lazier about editing the episodes these days, so I can't cut them out as much because I just don't have the energy or the desire. Moving on. Next up next review. 5 stars. This is the theater podcast you want and need. The magic of this podcast is how it allows the listener to feel a part of the theater and Broadway community from a distance. It gives us something to root for, to care about, to be invested in. Lots of people have sports for that and can physically attend in their home city or nearby to experience that camaraderie live. Broadway is only in one city. Not everyone can be a physical part of that. Especially during Tony season, Matt guided us towards that camaraderie from a distance. In his regular episode content, he emphasizes critical thinking and careful consideration of what makes a show work or what doesn't work to assist the story experience. Recognizing those factors is a gift that few possess, and this process is what helps us create better theater and more effective storytelling on the stage. Pair that with Matt's conversational, raw, and charismatic demeanor on the mic, and we have a winner. Thank you very much. Yeah, I think you guys are so good at writing these. That's honestly, in addition to, you know, we want reviews, we want ratings because it helps the algorithm, it helps people find the podcast, and if you doubt that, just know. Like, in the last three months, you guys have put in a whole bunch of ratings, a whole bunch of reviews. I think we were at 190 at the end of March, something like that. And now we're at 2:40. And we've gotten so many new listeners in the last three months. I've had people reach out to me. I had someone email Broadway Podcast Network trying to reach me to inform me about how they recently found the episodes of the podcast and listening to Spelling Bee because they're seeing Spelling Bee and I think they might be doing Spelling Bee and I should read that email again. But Alan Seals of BPN forwarded it to me yesterday. I was very happy to read it, thank you very much. But yeah, the reviews help. The reviews and the ratings, they always help. And I enjoy reading them. And as I said, my mom really enjoys getting them and sending them to my grandmother so they know that their grandson is not just wasting his life in front of a mic. I mean, he is, but sometimes people listen and I think they appreciate that. So thank you guys. And yeah, check us back next week for our interview with Ben West. I'm also in the next week taking my hundred year old grandmother to see Stereophonic. She requested it, she demanded it. And as it turns out, the day that we're taking her is going to be her 80th wedding anniversary or what would be her 80th wedding anniversary to my grandfather. My grandfather passed away 27 years ago, but it'll be their 80th anniversary. So we're thinking of something special to do for her in addition to the show and maybe we'll do like a little bonus up about that and, and whatnot. I had one of the listeners, you know who you are, reached out and asked if I could do a little voice memo recording with her on my phone and ask her a couple of questions about her experiences seeing theater and what she thought of Stereophonic after we go see it. Because this is the woman, you know, who saw the original Oklahoma, saw Gertrude Lawrence in Lady in the Dark, took my father to see A Chorus Line at the Public, saw Paul Newman in Sweeper of Youth on Broadway. Like has seen a lot and I've taken her to some stuff as well in my later years. So she's a, she's a theater going gal, as is my other grandmother, Nanny, my mother's mother. But Nanny isn't really in any shape to see theater anymore, unfortunately. She's able and willing to see one encore show a season and we're still keeping that subscription going. So we'll see what she picks next season. She hasn't, she hasn't decided yet. I, I keep having to remind her that the wild Party is the Lachiusa wild party because she saw the Lipa one at Manhattan Theater Club 24 years ago did not care for it. And I keep telling her this is the other one, but she keeps forgetting and keeps saying, I don't want to see that show again. I'm like, well, you did. You haven't seen this show yet. So. It's fun to have family, isn't it, everybody? Okay, so that's it for now. You'll hear back from us next week. Maybe a possible bonus episode in the next two or three weeks, plus a return to problematic for a brief period. And then we go on a little bit of a hiatus. Keep writing those reviews, guys. My mommy really loves them. Let us close out then. I guess we could close out with Betty Buckley. It's been a minute since we've had Betty. Just to harken back to our good old Cats days. Although I don't think we're gonna do Cats. Maybe we'll do He Plays the Violin or something and I'll figure it out in just a second. But yeah, that'll be it for now. Have a good weekend, everyone. Have a good week. Have a good July. Have a really good July, if you can. I hope you had a really lovely pride and you all hydrated yourself afterwards and yeah, that's it for now. Oh, if you like. Yeah. And follow me on Instagram if you would like. Attcoplek. Usual spelling and nice 5 star rating always helps. If you're feeling too much pressure to write a review, you don't have to. Just the five stars is enough. Helps with the algorithm, helps with our rating. And thank you so much. Take it away, Miss Betty Lynn. Die, say I died. Loving bride, loving wife, loving life for it was high, high, high Twix my heart Love.