COME FROM AWAY w/ Lauren Nicole Chapman

Summary

Broadway Breakdown: "Come From Away" w/ Lauren Nicole Chapman

Host: Matt Koplik
Guest: Lauren Nicole Chapman (Broadway performer, formerly “Disney Princess”)
Date: February 6, 2025

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Episode Overview

In this energetic and candid episode, host Matt Koplik and guest Lauren Nicole Chapman dive deep into the Broadway sensation Come From Away. They unpack the show’s creative process, unique musical and structural choices, and emotional impact—while swapping personal stories and opinions with characteristic humor and frankness. The episode is filled with anecdotes from the production, Broadway industry insights, and lively banter that balances irreverence and genuine admiration for the material.

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Key Topics & Insights

1. Show Logistics and Fun Facts

[00:00 – 10:45]

• Show Length & Pacing:

  • Come From Away is exactly 100 minutes (often mistaken for 90), achieved through precise musical timing—no click track but dialogue is synced to movement and music.

    "All of the dialogue in Come From Away is timed to the music, so... everything moves at a very specific pace the entire time." – Matt (00:00)

• Applause Breaks:

  • Only three official applause breaks by design: after “Welcome to the Rock”, after the “Screech-In” sequence, and at the finale.

• Set Design Easter Eggs:

  • Designer Beowulf Boritt always hides an elephant trinket in his sets; in Come From Away, it's in a high tree branch.

• Twin Towers Tribute:

  • Two frail, shortened birch trees on upstage left are a subtle homage to the fallen World Trade Center towers.

• Authenticity in Performance:

  • Director Christopher Ashley instructed cast to avoid “playing” for sentiment; the power comes from underplaying and constantly “getting the job done.”

2. Origin & Development of “Come From Away”

[12:33 – 24:50]

• Writer-Composer Team:

  • Husband and wife David Hein and Irene Sankoff, who attended the 10-year reunion of “Plane People” and Newfoundlanders, found their musical inspiration in the region’s real-life camaraderie and community singalongs.

• Workshop Process:

  • Extensively workshopped at Goodspeed and NAMT, initially conceived as narration-heavy to capture the voices and vignettes of a huge, real ensemble.

• Narrative Structure:

  • The show’s narration is compared to The Laramie Project: multiple actors play diverse characters, often shifting roles with minimal costume changes.

    “They started with like a 30, 40 minute workshop in Canada that then expanded... They tried to cover everyone, everyone they spoke to, and they were having trouble figuring out their way into it... It led to the whole ‘Laramie project’ idea.” – Matt (22:01)

3. Personal Connections & First Impressions

[14:57 – 29:41]

• Lauren’s Introduction:

  • Saw the show as a second date (not with her future husband), before its Tonys sweep. Remembers being unexpectedly emotionally moved:

    “I knew in that moment, too, that it wasn’t going to happen, but I would go on a third date because he invested so much in the second date.” – Lauren (27:35)

• Matt’s Background:

  • Saw it in the final previews with his step-grandmother (a Tony nominator). Both were skeptical due to the “9/11 musical” label but found themselves deeply affected.

4. Critical Reception, Tonys & Broadway Context

[32:25 – 36:43; 99:49 – 106:32]

• Critical Reception:

  • Despite skepticism about its subject, critics praised the show’s humor, emotional precision, and effectiveness.

• 2017 Tony Awards:

  • Contended with Dear Evan Hansen, Great Comet, and Groundhog Day in a celebrated season. Come From Away only took home Best Director (Christopher Ashley).

  • Discussion about whether it should have won more, with both guest and host preferring it over Dear Evan Hansen as Best Musical.

    “I think Come From Away for me was ultimately the more exciting and fulfilling theatrical experience... which is why I ultimately give it Best Musical.” – Matt (103:01)

• Industry/Fandom Pendulum:

  • The Broadway “pendulum swings” phenomenon—how divided fandoms reevaluate past winners and sometimes root for the underdog in retrospect.

5. Design, Direction, and Stagecraft

[80:04 – 88:28]

• Importance of Direction:

  • Discussion on what makes for great musical direction: not just inventive staging, but unifying tone and performance.

    “Everyone’s on the same page, everyone’s in, you know, working towards the same goal.” – Lauren (80:38)

• Minimalism & Stage Movement:

  • Heavily minimal set, with actors managing scene transitions—especially the “Bonnie” track (most chair/furniture shifts due to original actress’s team-player attitude).

• Future Directors:

  • Both Matt and Lauren pitch female directors (Jessica Stone, Sarah Ogleby, Joanne Hunter) as ideal for future stagings, appreciating the show’s female-driven energy.

6. Themes, Emotional Impact, and Representation

[41:06 – 73:58]

• “Toxic Positivity?”

  • Addressing criticisms about the show’s light treatment of post-9/11 Islamophobia:

    “Toxic positivity is ignoring trauma... I don’t think that Come From Away is that... There’s more good in this story than bad. And we would be dishonest if we didn’t acknowledge any of the bad.” – Matt (78:26)

• Emotional Resonance:

  • Both panelists agree that the show’s power lies in depicting people “showing up” for others.

    “For me, what always makes me cry is when people show up for people. When people just, like, are good. Yeah.” – Matt (68:45) “I think the through line... is, like, yeah. Chef’s kiss.” – Lauren (82:56)

• Diversity & Casting:

  • Praise for the diversity—not just racially, but in age, body type, and “regular people” presence onstage.

    “With Come From Away, it’s not about abs, it’s not about... height or waist size. It is purely about personality.” – Matt (96:13)

7. Memorable Characters & Song Highlights

[46:02 – 87:34]

• Favorite Tracks & Roles:
  • Lauren identifies with “Bonnie” (animal rescuer); Matt pegs her as a “Janice in the streets, Bonnie in the sheets.”
  • Jen Colella’s dual roles (Beverly Bass, pilot, and Annette, comedic local) get special praise.
  • Songs like “Welcome to the Rock,” “Me and the Sky,” and “Somewhere in the Middle of Nowhere” celebrated for energy, emotional build, and group vocals.
  • Both balk at the idea of casting children onstage for practical and artistic reasons.

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Notable Quotes & Moments

• On Direction and Cohesion:

  “A good director is somebody who can bridge the gap... not every piece is going to be perfect... you’re able to sort of move through, and it makes sense and, like, Come From Away is a really good example of that because... the theming is, like, chef’s kiss.” – Lauren (82:24)

• On Emotional Impact:

  “I bawled from start to finish, I was just like, I love musicals.” – Matt (39:49)
  “I was locked in. Yeah, like, minute five.” – Lauren (43:42)

• On Broadway’s Changing Values:

  “Broadway has had a very difficult time understanding what diversity means... there’s also gender, sexuality, body size, age, agility... with Come From Away, it is... you’re seeing all walks of life on stage.” – Matt (95:16)

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Timestamps of Major Segments

• 00:00 – 10:45: Matt’s introductory fun facts, production insights, and set design easter eggs
• 11:22 – 24:50: Guest intro, show background, and the developmental process
• 27:35 – 29:41: Personal anecdotes of first seeing Come From Away
• 32:25 – 36:43: Critical reception and Tonys context
• 41:06 – 46:02: Character breakdown (Bonnie, Annette, Beulah, Diane)
• 80:04 – 88:28: Discussing directing, best practices on Broadway, and hypothetical future stagings
• 99:49 – 106:32: Revisiting the Tonys, ranking 2017 nominees, and Broadway fandom
• 108:17 – 109:17: Industry realities—shows opening, closing, and making space for new stories

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Conclusion

Come From Away gets a thorough, opinionated, and affectionate analysis from Matt and Lauren, who honor its craft, technical achievement, emotional generosity, and continued impact. They acknowledge both critical praise and criticisms—especially regarding representation and narrative focus—while celebrating the show’s unique place in recent musical theater history. Their lively dynamic, industry knowledge, and candid humor make this episode a rich listen for Broadway fans, theater newcomers, and anyone curious about why Come From Away resonates so deeply.

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Closing Diva:

By Lauren’s request, the episode closes with a Jen (“Daddy”) Colella performance [“Me and the Sky” or other signature track].

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Listen for:

• Behind-the-scenes process stories
• Lively, comedic rapport between host and guest
• Tangents that reveal Broadway’s evolving culture and values
• Honest discussion of why some musicals transcend their flaws

For more episodes and Broadway breakdowns, visit bwaybreakdown.substack.com

Transcript

[A]

Hey, everybody, it's Matt, your least famous and most opinionated Broadway podcast host. And before we get into the meat of our episode today, which is Come From Away with Lauren Nicole Chapman, I just wanted to give you guys a little bit of intel. First of all, the microphones that I have been using for in person episodes have started to fade very in and out, and I didn't notice it until after I recorded with Lauren and then again with Alex Weisman for the first Angels in America episode. So I've done my best to alter the audio a bit. It's not too bad. It's not unlistenable. It's more that Lauren sounds very crisp and clear and at the forefront. And for some reason I sound like I'm just not miked and I am. So I don't know what's going on there. So I've tried to tweak the audio so that way she and I are as level as possible. Again, it's not too bad, but just letting you know, I'm in the process of getting new microphones so I don't have to deal with this anymore. So hold steady, it's coming. Second thing, I am lucky enough to have a few friends who have been in Come From Away, either on Broadway or on the national tour, and I asked them for some intel about the show, some fun facts or easter eggs or whatever, and they followed through. They came in with some fun facts on the show, some of which I did not know, but. But in true actor fashion, they didn't get back to me on it until after I had recorded the episode. So I couldn't include any of that information when Lauren and I recorded. So I figured I would share some of that information with you now and then we would get into the episode. First thing. Lauren and I debate for a minute about how long the show is. For a second, she thinks it's 90 minutes. I wasn't quite sure it is 100 minutes. It's 100 minutes exactly. And that was something that was very important to the team, to kind of make it as tight as possible, as concise as possible, and keep it always moving. One of the reasons why the show tends to clock in at exactly that time every time it's not on a click track, meaning that it's not like the band is listening to a specific click track to keep the pacing going. But all of the dialogue in Come From Away is timed to the music, so there's nothing really any opportunities to indulge in scene work, to really milk lines or anything like that. So everything moves at a very specific pace the entire time. Also, the show only has three official applause breaks at the insistence of director Christopher Ashley. One is after the opening number, welcome to the Rock. The other is after the screech in and then the other is at the finale. So because there are aren't a lot of opportunities for applause, the show is not reliant on audience response to fluctuate the length of the show. Obviously there are times when I'm sure very rambunctious audiences burst into applause after certain moments. But for the most part, the show has just those three locked in. Applause breaks Some fun facts that I did not know. The design of the show is by Barry Beowulf Borret, who has done 25th annual Putnam County Spelling Bee. He did act one, Scots Roar Boys. Apparently Beowulf has a tendency in his designs to include these little Easter eggs with elephants. And there's always some sort of trinket or a reference to an elephant in all of his designs. This is something that I had absolutely no idea about. But so for come from Away, supposedly in one of the higher trees, in one of the higher branches, he had some sort of elephant ornament in there, the trees as well. And a lot of you probably know this, the trees in the set design had come from away, which were, I think birch trees, as the design was those birch trees and then this bare turntable with chairs on it. But the birch trees on Broadway were real trees. They were made of fiberglass for the tour. But so on Broadway they were real. And oftentimes they would sprout new branches that they would then have to cut down. Just sort of keep everything as is for the stage production. Something else that I did not know about the trees was that at the backstage left of the design, so towards the back of the stage to the left, there were two trees that were shorter than the rest of the trees in the set design. And they were sort of dead looking and haggard, sort of looked almost split open. And these trees were a tribute to to the Twin Towers that fell on September 11th. And this is something that I did not know and is very moving to me. Something about the intent of the production. And this is something that Lauren and I get to when we talk about direction because a lot of people think about what wins director of a musical or director of a play is staging. And there's a lot of really intricate staging in comfort way. And I'll get to that in a second. But also it's about tone, it's about Making sure cast is on the same page. It's getting everyone involved in the production on the same page and making sure that everything flows smoothly and is successful and come from away. I mean, I think that a lot of the show is written quite humorously, which sort of keeps you. It doesn't. It removes your guard by having humor to it. When you hear what sort of the premise of the musical is, you go, oh, God, this is going to be schmaltzy. And the show leans into a lot of dry humor to kind of take you off your guard that way. But there is some schmaltz in the writing. It can get a little sentimental. And so Ashley, as the director told the cast and would tell anyone who came into the cast or went on tour or whatever, that they were not to play sentiment. They were not to play deep, sad emotions. It wasn't about pain. It wasn't about loss. It was the majority of the characters in this show. There's so much to do and not a lot of time to do it. So it's all about getting a job done. So everyone was playing their roles. And on top of that, by the way, playing all these multiple roles, it wasn't about, like, Peter and the Starcatcher, where, oh, now I'm this person and I have a new voice and I have a new attitude. The actors were instructed to mostly keep to their natural selves with slight tweaks here and there, but letting the simple shift of a new coat or a new hat make them the new character that they are less of. You know, doing this giant transformation of their voice and body. But on top of that, playing all of these characters in Gander and the visitors in Gander, it was just about getting to the finish line. It was just about getting it done. And by doing so, it cut against any sentiment that's in the material and allowed the audience to feel more emotion because the cast was not telling them how to feel. The cast was just playing it straight and playing it simple and not necessarily tough, but not indulgently emotional. And thus that allowed sort of the magic trick of the show to weave together that little drier exterior with the mushy heart of the show. The production also is very intricate, not just with staging, but with costumes. A character might have a coat that has a pocket on the inside, and inside that pocket is a prop that they have to take out and give to another character so they can become a new character so they can start a new scene. And so everything was very intertwined. And if you messed up. It didn't just mess up your stuff, it messed up somebody else's stuff. So you really had to be on top of your shit. When you were in Come From Away, a couple of people who had been in the show informed me it actually is a surprisingly difficult sing Come From Away. And you know, it's not Heathers or Wicked. You're not screaming at the top of your lungs the entire time, but it is non stop for 100 minutes. You are always on the move and when you are singing like there are times when it does get up there. But it's also that there was a very specific sound that the team was going for. And that's not unusual. A lot of musicals, the musical team will have a very specific sound they want all the time. I know that with the original Spring Awakening back in 06 07, the music team was insistent that there be as little vibrato as possible from the cast. That people do as much straight tone as they can. So for confirm way there was very specific sound they wanted. There were times when they wanted no vibrato. Vibrato could happen here, blah, blah, blah. So you often had to kind of work your voice into the pocket that the team wanted. And that could be tricky if your voice didn't naturally sit or sound a certain kind of way. Last thing. Oh, this is just a fun one. The character of Bonnie, the woman who takes care of all of the animals. That track has the most stage movement of any track in the show, meaning chair movement and just getting furniture in different places. And the team didn't realize that this was the case until they opened the show in London. And actress who was doing the Bonnie track was like, why am I moving chairs more than anybody else? And they realized because as they were developing the show and getting it on its feet in La jolla and then D.C. and in Canada, the actress who played Bonnie, Petriona Bromley, was such a team player and very eager to just sort of pick up the slack if there was a moment that needed pick me ups. And oftentimes whenever they're like, okay, so now these two chairs need to go from stage left to stage right. How are we going to do that? Petrina was like, o move it. And it just was that all the time. And they just didn't think about it while they were doing it because you're in the middle of the woods while you're making the thing. And so once it was set and then once they were putting it on new bodies, that was in London. That's when they were like, oh, I guess the Bonnie track is the one that moves the chairs the most because Petrina just always was willing to do it. So that's just a fun thing. If you ever watch the Apple movie of Come From Away, just keep track of all the times that Bonnie's the one moving chairs, because it's her more often than it's not. And that's it. Yeah, I'll stop talking now so you guys can hear the rest of the episode with Ms. Laura Nicole Chapman. Here we go. Let's get into Come From Away now. There's a solemn old tradition for admission or audition to transition from a Come From Away to be a Newfoundlander. The only other way, at any rate, is pass away and pray to fate and wait to reincarnate as a Newfoundlander reign.

[B]

F. Come on inside.

[A]

Nothing electric, nothing tight.

[B]

Only a couple of people cried.

[A]

You be ignored. Hello, all you theater lovers both out and proud and on the DL. And welcome back to Broadway Breakdown, a podcast discussing the history und legacy of American theater's most exclusive address, Broadway. This series is called Grab Back, and it is covering shows you submitted and I picked out of a bowl. I'm your. It's true. I did it. I'm your host, Matt Koplik. The least famous and most opinionated of all the Broadway podcast hosts. And with Today is a princess. She's the Disney princess, everybody.

[B]

A former princess.

[A]

I mean, well, yeah, by the time this comes out, your thing will have actually aired on tv, so you'll be old news by then, but true. It's in. She's in the lexicon. She's a friend of mine. She's an old friend of the pod. Please welcome back after 9,000 years, Ms. Lauren Nicole Chapman.

[B]

Yay.

[A]

Hi, Lauren.

[B]

Hi. Thank you for using my full equity name.

[A]

I mean, how else are people gonna know to look up this episode?

[B]

So many names.

[A]

So many names.

[B]

Such a short person.

[A]

Your name is indeed longer than your height.

[B]

Correct.

[A]

But that's fine. It's just so much bundled up in a petite little carry on package.

[B]

Perfect.

[A]

Yeah. I can carry you onto a plane. I don't need to put you in. I don't need to check you.

[B]

I love that. Except for, you know, we also love. We love status. We love Delta status. We love, you know, free bags.

[A]

We are very much status people.

[B]

We like status.

[A]

I think if anyone would describe us, it is, oh, Matt and Lauren. Like, they're all about status.

[B]

Like, she probably has the Delta credit card. Sor. I digress.

[A]

Well, you. You also fly A lot. So that's important. I don't. I would have a Delta credit card and be like, well, one day I intend to take an airplane.

[B]

Go somewhere.

[A]

Go somewhere. And when I do, it's gonna be nice.

[B]

Yeah. And I'm gonna have points.

[A]

Speaking of airplanes, Lauren.

[B]

Yes.

[A]

What show are we talking about?

[B]

We are talking about Come From Away.

[A]

Yes. Wait, Come From Away. Not to Come Fly Away, the Frank Sinatra Twyla Tharp dance musical.

[B]

And it's very different from the other song. What's that song? Come Fly Away. Come from away Come fly away with me. Oh, Come sail away Come sail away.

[A]

If you want to know just how much of a noob Lauren is, she looks to me for pop music knowledge.

[B]

Right.

[A]

And. And I had the answer.

[B]

That means I actually have no business being on this podcast.

[A]

Lauren's question was such low hanging fruit, I was able to answer it.

[B]

Well, thank God.

[A]

No, I. How do I know that? I think it's. Oh, it's because it's in the Virgin Suicides and I know that soundtrack like the back of my hand. But Come From Away is not that.

[B]

It's not that?

[A]

No. What, for the uncultured fucks. Yes. Which is what we call the listeners as well as anybody who just doesn't know nothing.

[B]

Okay.

[A]

What is Come From Away? A boot.

[B]

Come From Away is a boot. The terrorist attacks and what happened, like in a small.

[A]

Newfoundland.

[B]

Newfoundland. And what. You know, this is not why you asked me to be on this podcast.

[A]

No, no, I want. This is the question that makes or breaks a lot of guests. Because the truth is that this part doesn't matter. Most of the people listening know. It's just fun to see how people do it.

[B]

It's a. It's a 90 minute. No. Which we love.

[A]

A 90 minute no.

[B]

Yeah. 90 minute. No, no. Intermission.

[A]

Wouldn't that be a 90 minute knee?

[B]

I don't know, Matt.

[A]

Or 100 minute knee?

[B]

I don't know, Matt. Anyways. And what happens to the town in order to accommodate all the people.

[A]

Yes. On these airplanes.

[B]

On these airplanes that are getting off. That got misdirected.

[A]

Yes.

[B]

Correct. American Airlines.

[A]

Yep. That's one of the airlines. Yeah, that's. It's the true story. Lauren did an okay job of telling it. It's.

[B]

Thank you. I'll take. Okay.

[A]

Yeah. I mean, who are you, the book writer of Jack A Little Pillow? Because this storytelling, my love, it's just. It's top notch, babe. Well. So, okay, what is your relationship with the show? How did it enter your Chat, one might say.

[B]

Well, I got taken on a date to come see that show really fully. It was my second date with a person.

[A]

Not the man who has since tied you down?

[B]

No, not my. Not my husband.

[A]

Wow. Mike Starr. What? Way to drop the ball, like, three years early.

[B]

Yeah. Right.

[A]

Okay, so it was your second date with a person.

[B]

It was my second date with a human. And they. He was like, we're gonna get dinner, and we're gonna go see Come from away.

[A]

Had the Tony Awards happened yet? Do you remember any of that?

[B]

I don't think the Tony Awards had happened. Original company.

[A]

Great.

[B]

I'm a John Colella. Stan, honey, bad voice there for it.

[A]

Have you seen Seuss?

[B]

I have not seen Soos.

[A]

Okay, you're probably gonna miss it, but then because you're very busy before it closes, it's there. I have thoughts about it. But there's one thing that Kalela does with her lesbian voice that I'm just like, how. How do you do it? She does a sforzando. It's sort of like, I want to say it's an E or an F maybe. And for those of you who don't know what sforzandos are, it's when you. It's sfc in the music, and it's when you hit a note dead on with force, but then immediately pull back and then you crescendo louder.

[B]

She has, like, amazing control.

[A]

Yes. And I put it in my. One of my nominees of last season of, like, gay agenda moments of the year, and it was the sforz. I said the sforzanto y thing that Giancula did in suvs, which she liked and then commented on. But. But if you're listening.

[B]

We love you.

[A]

We love you, chunklo. We love you. But my point is that with her voice, it's insane. And. And you can always hear her. And all the top harmonies have come from away. That voice is just indestructible.

[B]

It sits in the perfect spot.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

The resonance is correct.

[A]

She did Sideshow at the Kennedy center many years ago, and she was Daisy, which for her attitude is correct, but vocally, she's a Violet. And I always wondered how they did that. And then someone sent me a boot, and I went, oh. They just flipped the harmonies and had Dais Daisy do all the Alice Ripley notes. I was like, yeah. Because when you have Jen Colella, you don't give her the alto line.

[B]

Yes.

[A]

That's like asking Lauren Nicole Chapman to be a Rockette instead of a featured soloist in the Christmas Spectacular Radio.

[B]

Well, first of all, let's be honest. I'll never. I would never, ever be a Rockette, not for one second.

[A]

But science has made wonderful progress. We can get some stilts put into your legs, and before you know it, you are 6:2. But also, it's one of those things where know who you got. Know what they do.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

And Laura Nicole Chapman has a voice like olive oil. So you have her be the featured soloist.

[B]

Is. Can I get. Well, I guess it's gonna be in a recording. I was like, can I get that in writing? But thank you.

[A]

The transcript for this episode will be available for anyone who listens to podcasts, I think. And, yeah, it'll be there in writing for you.

[B]

Perfect.

[A]

Lauren Nicole Chapman has a voice like olive oil.

[B]

Oh, thank you.

[A]

You're welcome. Which brings us Back to Come From Away.

[B]

Yes, Back to Come From Away.

[A]

I saw Come From Away right before it opened. This was around the time where my. I always feel weird saying this, but it's technically true. My step grandmother, she was a Tony nominator, and this was her second to last year as a Tony nominator. She had done the year before, which was Hamilton this year, and then the following year, which was. I know, right? The following year was the year I got to go with her to the Tonys to see Ben's visit. V. Mean Girls. Vu in Frozen. The only time that Lauren Nicole Chowder and I both were at the Tony Awards, you got to perform and I was in the audience.

[B]

Oh, my gosh.

[A]

Yeah, that was a fun Tonys. I always. I always tell the listeners what was wild about that night was because it's Radio City, half of the audience, like, in the upper balconies and stuff, were like, fans who buy. Who bought tickets and stuff. And the lower half is industry. And anytime a Mean Girls nomination was announced, the balconies all went insane. But then Band's visit would win, and you would hear nothing from the balconies. And it was wild because of the. The fans were there.

[B]

The fans.

[A]

The fans were there, and they were very vocal, and they probably hadn't seen Ben's visit. And then when Katrina Lenke did Omar Sharif on the Tonys, everyone's like, what is this shit? Where are the high Bs? And I'm like, go to Mean Girls. But so I got to see it with her, with Fran in the final couple of previews, and we both kind of went in eye rolly. Because the whole thing about the show coming into town, I don't know if you remember, it was like people kept calling it. Mislabeling it. Mislabeling it. The 911 musical.

[B]

Right.

[A]

And we'll talk more about that in a second.

[B]

But like I did a little bit kinda. I didn't, I take it back. I didn't mean it like that.

[A]

You didn't say 9 11. You said the, the, the terrorist attacks of 911 are the inciting incidents.

[B]

Yes, inciting incident that starts the show. Thank you.

[A]

Exactly. And it's all off stiche. But yeah, that was sort of. Everyone kind of had heard good things from out of town, but it was like we don't trust these out of town folks with their, with what they say because who wants to see a 911 musical?

[B]

Well. And we had friends that workshopped it.

[A]

Did we?

[B]

Yes. At Goodspeed.

[A]

Speak more on that, please.

[B]

I'm pretty sure I don't want to misspeak. But people that we know in our world. In our world, if you're listening and you know, text us. But I, I think, yeah, it was like while, while we were in college, it was being workshopped at Goodsp. Speed.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

On. I, I want to say I might be talking out of turn, but the heart kids, if you're listening, some of the heart kids.

[A]

Okay.

[B]

At the time in our sort of like.

[A]

Because that was. If they were workshopping it during my.

[B]

And your senior years and they were like floored. They were, they were like, oh my gosh, I can't believe we got to work on this musical. It's gonna be huge.

[A]

Yeah. Well, so that was sort of. The thing is it was. I was, I met in a search for this because it was written by David Hein and Irene Senkoff. I'm pretty sure that's how you say their names. Who are a husband and wife songwriting team. And they got brought on board by a producer who thought it would make a good musical because he had seen a show of theirs. It's. Yeah. David Hine and Irene Sankoff. I'm so good at what I do. It was the producer, Michael Rubinoff and he had seen a musical of theirs in 2009 called My Mother's Lesbian Jewish Wiccan Wedding. You know, Supes commercial. Love, love. But he, I guess he had heard about the story of Gander and the Come From Awayers and all that.

[B]

And Gander. Thank you.

[A]

Yes, Gander. Welcome down to Gander. But because there had been a documentary about it, there had been news segments about it and in 2011, it was the 10 year anniversary of not only 9, 11. But of the come from awayers. And so they had this whole big thing in Gander and the team of David and Irene, the married couple, they go to the sort of reunion and they're like, oh, this is absolutely a musical. Because in Gander they have all these like, as we see in the show, screech ins or people gather together and they sing and they dance. It's very much giving the opening scene of Zorba. For those of you who know Zorba, it's the little semicircle. They do what? Oh, you're doing the exclamation point.

[B]

Yes, you can hear it. But I made the exclamation point with my.

[A]

Lauren made an exclamation point. She's very professional. She's Equity. Ask if it's Equity. But the opening scene of Zorba is Life is. And it's the semicircle they do where they all play instruments and they sing and dance and Gander has a lot of that. And so they saw that and they're like, oh, this is absolutely the energy of a musical. It's the tone of a musical. And they started interviewing a lot of locals. They interviewed people from the plains and. Yeah, the plains. And they started with like a 30, 40 minute workshop in Canada that then expanded to a much larger workshop. And then, yeah, pretty much from like 2012 to 2014, they just were workshopping it all over the place. They had Goodspeed, they had namt, there was some other place they did it. And I was watching an interview with them where they talked about. At first they tried to cover everyone, everyone they spoke to, and they were having trouble figuring out their way into it. They're like, do we have everyone just sort of play the characters and we play it all out? Do we have narration? Because there's so many things that these people said that are so poignant and also like insanely hilarious that if we were to just put it in the show, people would say that we were terrible writers for being so obvious. The only way we can get away with it is if they understand. Like, this is direct from their mouths. Which led to the whole, what they call Laramie project idea of constant exposition, narration, people switching over parts and whatnot, which I love. I do too. It's. It's. In a lot of ways it goes against what I usually love.

[B]

See, as somebody who has like a tad a bit of the add of it all, you don't say, oh, shocking for somebody who's known me for over 12 years. Yeah, but that's what I loved about it because I felt like I was getting these like perfect little vignettes of these little stories. And I got a total vibe of like, what that town was like.

[A]

Yeah, there's. There's a double edged sword to it and we have to talk about it because it was a question brought up in the Broadway Breakdown Discord Channel, which if you haven't joined yet, please do. We're at over 200 members on the Discord Channel, where you get to submit questions and topics you want us to cover on the episodes. You also get to find out early on when episodes are being recorded. And you also get to get some fun goss. Sometimes people like to exchange gossip on that Discord Channel. It's fun. I only come in to shut down misinformation. If someone has a rumor that is not true, I'm like, guys, that one's not true. But also sometimes I'm wrong. Famously so. On this podcast, I declared three weeks before they announced it that Skylar Astin was going to be the new Gatsby. And then that didn't end up happening. But I can say with confidence that it was supposed to be him. He was the first one approached.

[B]

Hmm, very interesting.

[A]

But this is why we don't leak information till things are signed.

[B]

Things can change and things can, you know.

[A]

Yeah, no one knows that better than us. You know what I mean?

[B]

Right?

[A]

Yeah. But yeah, so they. This all goes back to what we were saying about people we know who did all the workshops. Like, this thing was sort of in development for a very long time and they didn't start performing. Performing it according to my notes, until 2015, summer of 2015 at La Jolla. Never heard of her. And it goes from La Jolla to Seattle Rep, from Seattle rep to D.C. to Canada, then to Broadway. So it's like a year and a half touring situation. And that entire time everyone's saying, like your friends were saying during the workshops, like, no, this is so good. It's not the 911 musical. I swear. It's so, like, it's so fantastic. And all of us in New York are like, okay, sure, Jamie. Like, because at this point, Evan Hansen had opened and Great Comet had opened and we're like, guys, these are our musical. These, these are the front runners of the year. And like, and if anything's gonna happen to upset it all, it's gonna be Groundhog Day from, you know, the Matilda people. And then Come from White just comes in that march and we're like, well, fuck me sideways.

[B]

It was I mean, yeah, it was. And like I said, a 90 minute no.

[A]

A 90 minute no. Or a 90 minute knee, depending on where you come from.

[B]

Where you. Yeah, where you come from. Away.

[A]

Exactly. I'm a big fan of the intermission list. There are some shows where I'm like, you could probably have an intermission. I could use a pee break. And then some shows where I'm like, you could probably make this intermissionless.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

How many. How many musicals have you seen in the last three years? You don't have to name names, but have you seen a few where you're like, this could have been intermissionless, a 90 minute no.

[B]

Or anything? I think maybe. I think maybe not intermissionless, but perhaps a bit shorter.

[A]

Everything in general. You know, this podcast could be shorter, but. But everything could be shorter. But there were some musicals I saw in the last three years from, like, you. We could make you 100 minutes. No.

[B]

Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.

[A]

That's.

[B]

Yeah, yeah, yeah.

[A]

I'm not. Yeah. I won't name names. I've said. I. I discussed it on the pod in the past. I know I talked about this a lot last. That was, like, one of my big things last season when there were a couple of musicals from, like, you could be a hundred minute knee.

[B]

Knee.

[A]

100 minute knee. But you see, come from a Wii. You and the boy do not last. But does the musical last for you?

[B]

Yes.

[A]

Is the one good thing in this boy's column is that he took you to come from away?

[B]

Yes.

[A]

There are no other things in his good column?

[B]

Well, no, he.

[A]

That he's not gonna listen, Lauren.

[B]

Well, I will say. I will say listen for a second date.

[A]

That's a good one.

[B]

With, like, a gorgeous. We went to a gorgeous sushi sushi restaurant before. I was like, this is a really lovely. Like, he invested in this night.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

You know, and I knew in that moment, too, that I wasn't, you know, it wasn't gonna happen, but I would go on a third date because he invested so much on the second date.

[A]

That's a. I mean, listen, that's a lot, you know, of good will. You want to know what I once did on the second date towards the end of 2019?

[B]

I don't know if I do, but maybe I do.

[A]

First off, Lauren, it's me. You know, I'm not gonna say anything disgusting.

[B]

Okay, Go ahead.

[A]

I've said plenty of disgusting things, but not with this kind of setup. I went on a second date with a man named Chris, and it was. He. He Requested that we get poke bowls on 9th Avenue before we go see a show. Now, poke bowls were his idea. Now, to be fair, I did not intend to make this our second date. I told him I was going to see this show, and he was like, oh, I've always wanted to see it. I was like, do you want me to get you a ticket? He said, sure. So our second date was Slave Play.

[B]

Okay.

[A]

Two very pretty white boys.

[B]

Okay, okay, okay. And there's nudity in Slave Play.

[A]

There sure is.

[B]

There's quite a bit of nudity, yeah.

[A]

Afterwards, he was like, I hope you don't expect me to give you the Paul Alexander Nolan reel realness there. And I was like, no one can be a Paul Alexander Nolan, honey. Don't. Don't worry. It's a high bar that I don't expect anyone to clear. I clear it. But that's because I'm me.

[B]

Okay.

[A]

And. And. And I.

[B]

That's a heavy show. But you didn't really ask him out. You said, do you want me to get you a ticket? I'm also going.

[A]

I. Yes. Anded.

[B]

So it's different where, like, somebody's like, I'm gonna take you to a gorgeous sushi dinner, and I bought you a ticket ahead of time to come from away a 90 minute.

[A]

No, one of us is a.

[B]

Is it 90 minutes?

[A]

I think it's 100. One of us is a Disney princess and gets treated as such. And one of us is a Broadway podcast host and gets treated as such.

[B]

I'll tell you, I was not a princess at that point. Yet. Just yet. Just yet.

[A]

You had been involved. It had touched your skin.

[B]

Sure.

[A]

And the Lord Jesus, Lord baby Jesus was like, it's a comin. And the. And the boys will treat you accordingly. I hadn't started my podcast.

[B]

I wish that that was so true because that was not the last date I went on before I married my husband. But that's okay, you know.

[A]

You know, Lauren, we didn't come here for your life story.

[B]

No, I'm trying to keep it interesting.

[A]

We came here for the anecdotes.

[B]

That's right.

[A]

Listen, Mike can do a lot of things for you, but can he take you to Red Poke and then slave play on a date?

[B]

Okay. Actually, I've been misspeaking this entire time.

[A]

Okay.

[B]

It was an hour and 40 minutes.

[A]

So that's a hundred.

[B]

Okay, that's a hundred.

[A]

That's a nice round hundred.

[B]

So it's a hundred.

[A]

No, it's a hundred. No. Or a hundred. Ne. If letters are that important to you guys, right? What Lauren said is much more interesting for the sound of it all. It's a better sound.

[B]

90 minute? No.

[A]

100 minute. No. 90 minute? No.

[B]

90 minute. No.

[A]

But you know, if you're being a stickler about letters, then it's 100 minute.

[B]

Knee the nights you say me back to Jen Kalala.

[A]

What about her?

[B]

I'm just kidding.

[A]

But so no, all I say is that you see the show and it makes an impact on you. Like it made an impact on all of us. Yeah, the. There's a lot of talk in the Discord channel about the critical reception it had pre and post Broadway opening and whether it would have landed as well as it did had it not been March of 2017. This is where my research comes into play. And I'll tell you more about my research after this break.

[B]

Billy, I beg to differ with you.

[A]

How do you mean?

[B]

You're the top.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

You're an arrow collar. You're the top. You're a Coolidge dollar. You're the nimble tread of the.

[A]

And we're back. So I was looking into my research about the reviews that come from away because again like the audience response was so huge and everyone kept talking about oh my God, it's sold out here, it's sold out there everywhere. But there's a difference between selling out the 400 seat La Jolla that has a subscriber base and then a thousand seat Broadway theater every night where you don't get no subscribers. And that was, that's always sort of my thing when people talk about like oh it's sold out this off Broadway run. I'm like yeah, lot of shows can sell out 150 seat classic stage Company. Honey, can you sell out the 800 seat circle in the Square? I doubt it. And come from way was that thing where we all kind of like side eyeing it. And the reviews though actually were incredibly positive. They all were like listen, I Hear you a 911 musical. Woof. Yes. There are going to be people who are going to find it saccharine. There are people going to find it very try hard. They're like but God damn is it effective? And like I like I challenge you to sit there the entire time and not feel anything.

[B]

Also we're talking you know, several many years ago, right? And here we are in 2024. And the way I'm craving a come from away like original moment. Like it was not a. I think it wasn't as appreciated as it should have been in its time Like, I.

[A]

Think it was very appreciated.

[B]

Well, I think it was, but I think.

[A]

Well. So this is. Well, this is an interesting question, and I was gonna, like, be like, let's talk about the material more before we get into the legacy of it all. But this is Broadway Breakdown, and we don't know what structure means. So we're gonna start in on the. The Tonys first, because why the fuck not?

[B]

Lauren, I love it.

[A]

Thank you. So it was ultimately down to Come From Away and Dear Evan Hansen for best Musical at the Tonys. And it was hard to tell who had the advantage because Come From Away came later in the season. Dear Evan Hansen was like a slightly bigger hit. It was a bit more of a cultural moment because it had songs that were playing on the radio. Ben Platt was getting the Streisand and Funny Girl treatment of it all. And Evan Hansen was eligible the previous year for all the quote unquote precursors. The drama desks, the outer critics circles, the things that aren't actually precursors. Lauren. Because the voting body does not overlap with the Tonys, but it helps with momentum. I talk about this all the time when we do Tony season, when people are like, well, got nominated for 12 out of critics Circle awards. It's gonna get nominated for 12 tonys. I'm like, you're aware that there are two different groups of people, right? The number of shows that have done so well at the outer critics circles, and then Buffett at the Tonys. Young Frankenstein, nine to five. Lauren loves nine to five.

[B]

I love nine to five.

[A]

I know. Point is that Come From Away wins all those quote unquote precursors, and everyone's like, well, what's the battle? Evan Hansen ends up winning the most that night. The thing that gets people weirded out is many people going, well, come From Away. Some people going Come from Away should have won musical. They should have won book and score. But I don't know if they should have won Director because that's the one Tony that they did win. And a lot of people felt Director should have gone to Great Comet because of the Rachel Chavkin of it all. This is the year of Evan Hansen, Come From Away, Great Comet and Groundhog Day, which, for my money, is the last Tony year where for me, it's the best musical lineup, where there are no skips. But. So I asked the Discord Channel, I'm like, how would you rank these four? You know, personally? And Great Comet definitely came out the highest of everyone on this Discord, either number one or number two with A couple of comfort ways at number one, this show is interesting to me because it does so many things that I dislike. It does the exposition, dialogue. It's so much narration. The difference is that in Come From Away, it is threaded into this story from everyone. Everyone is narrating, and the narration goes into dialogue and out of dialogue. It's like it's a constant stream and it never stops. I love it very much. There are shows where just rather than have any subtext, it's, let me narrate to the audience what I'm feeling right now. Or how about we interpret maybe? Because Come From a way, the narration is never really it. Not really never. There are times when they'll tell you how they were feeling in a moment, but often it's just, like, allowing us to know where we are in the story because it's 12 actors, something like that. Like a dozen different characters, dozens of different characters in all these different spots and travel. And we're on an airplane and we're on a bus, and then we're in a school, so we need to.

[B]

And the, like, minimalistic set and all this stuff. I actually loved the way that they used it.

[A]

Oh, yeah.

[B]

But understanding, like, okay, we're now talking about the school. We're now talking, you know.

[A]

Yeah, it's important for that. And I think if you're going to do something like that, if you're gonna commit a cardinal sin, like, so much narration and so much exposition, you have to go, okay, how. How are we gonna make up for this? And I think something that Come From Away does really well. And my experience with it is seeing it that March of 2017, then seeing it again when Broadway reopened. And I want to talk about that in a second, too. And then watching the Apple TV movie this morning to bone up for this episode, and I realized what Come From Way does really well is that it very much just embraces what musical theater can be, what it's so good at, which is just sweeping you up in energy and emotion. You forgive a lot when you. When you combine an emotional moment with clever staging and a bop.

[B]

A bop.

[A]

We forgive so much.

[B]

Welcome to the rock we come from away I want you to know I want you to know I want you to know that I hiked. Yes. Don't get nervous. I went on a hike with my husband, and when we got to the top of the Rock, I played that on the loudspeaker.

[A]

As well you should, for I'm sure.

[B]

Everyone loved that I did that.

[A]

But whatever people play on this I.

[B]

Was like, hey, have you ever heard of Come From Away? It's a great musical. You should look it up. They have some bops.

[A]

You know what I.

[B]

And I love a theme.

[A]

Whenever I listen to Come From Away, the thing that's always stuck into my head is this. Somewhere in the middle of nowhere with great arrangements, great vocal arrangements. And it is sort of like it always. It never fully turns in a way you don't expect, but it's more sort of like it leans a little to the left when you think it's gonna go straight, then it goes back straight and then leans a little to the right. It just always keeps you. Not on your toes, not on the edge of your seat, but it always just keeps you alert. It always keeps you. I was gonna say erect, because thinking, like, back, but I mean, depending on your kink, erects too. Again, you're talking about someone who saw Slave Play on a technically speaking, second date.

[B]

Yeah, you. That was you. You nailed that. That was bold.

[A]

Is that why he won't go out with me again?

[B]

That's neither here nor there. We'll discuss at a later date.

[A]

Yeah, yeah.

[B]

Should we text him?

[A]

Should we text Chris right now? The listeners also know all about my relationship dramas without knowing anyone's name. So they're like, matt's been going through so much with boys, he might just want to not go near them anymore.

[B]

That's so funny.

[A]

Yeah. Like, I think Matt. They're like, Matt's better off when he's holed up in his room doing research for this podcast and not trying to go out and find love. Because when he does, it creates weirdness and it creates plays.

[B]

No, but I thought I had a funny story with going on a second date to Come From Away, but you really topped that.

[A]

I mean, Lauren, we both have stories about married men. You married one?

[B]

Sure.

[A]

And I did it.

[B]

The story is that I am married.

[A]

You created a married man?

[B]

That I am married. Yes.

[A]

Yes. I just got mixed up with one. But the thing with Come From Away that I love and that I realized with when I went back to it, because I saw when Broadway was reopening in 2021, I got offered a ticket to the dress rehearsal of Hadestown before they reopened. Same thing with Phantom, by the way, with Friend of the Pot, Alena Ricardo. Both Phantom and Hadestown. I was like, I'm so glad to be back in a theater. It's so emotional to be back in the theater. And Hadestown. I was like, oh, right, I have notes on this show. But like, it's still so good to be back in the theater. And then my friend Eric was conducting Come from Away, and he was like, oh, come see the show. So I go again. And when I tell you that I bawled from start to finish, I was just like, I love musicals.

[B]

No, I love musicals. And when I'm telling you I'm sitting next to this man who I know I'm not going on a third date. Like, go on a third date. But, like, I know he's not it. Right. But he's so sweet. He's brought me to this, like, beautiful musical.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

And I'm sat there and I'm like, I'm really gonna cry in front of this man right now, for sure.

[A]

Who I have no intention of ever marrying.

[B]

Oh, 100%. No.

[A]

I think that's also how you can be comfortable in your own feelings during a show. You're like, I'm not going to deny myself this experience, because I know that.

[B]

No, I'm like, thank you for bringing me here. Yeah.

[A]

Thank you so much.

[B]

I needed this.

[A]

We come to this place for magic.

[B]

We come to this place for magic.

[A]

Yeah. But it truly is like it, because old host of the podcast John Miscavige does not like this musical very much. And I asked him why, and he, like, basically gave me a litany of reasons. I was like, those are all fair to me. It's similar to something like Les Miserables, where if you come at it with a fine tooth comb, you'll absolutely find the bumps. You can find bumps in most musicals in anything. Yeah. But for me, it's just how it all comes together. It's the surprising use of humor. It's way funnier than people realize.

[B]

I also love, like, in a musical in general, not just come from away, but in general if there is an imperfection. Like, I love the way that they choose to, like, tell the story in order to, like, I don't know, be like, this was the best version. And, like, so we're gonna make this happen and make this work, and we're gonna invest in it, and it does. It works.

[A]

Yeah. Well, they. They consolidated so many characters in this show because, as I said, like, they interviewed a million people. The original drafts were, like, 300 pages. I'm like, okay, we gotta take some artistic license. And so they didn't want to make up any events, but they were like, we can't have 9,000 characters. So some stories are actually a combination of three or four different stories. It's very Chorus Line, where they're like, okay, this one character is actually Donna McKechnie and Kelly Bishop. But, you know, we do what we do. We only have so much time. Another two hour no. By the way, Chorus line.

[B]

I love Chorus line.

[A]

Oh, I get. I get now why you call it a no. Because it's no Dash intermission. So you're just saying the no. I thought we were doing the ni.

[B]

No, but that's. We look at the life. Look at the world differently, Matt. And that's okay.

[A]

It. I'm also embarrassed it took me this long to realize that that's what that.

[B]

No, it's okay. But I also, like. It took me a very long time to be like, actually, it was a hundred minutes. But it sounds better to say 90 minute.

[A]

No, sure, sure. 90 minute. No, it just rolls.

[B]

The title of this podcast is the 90 minute.

[A]

No, 90 minute. No, it just rolls off the tongue better, you know? Yeah, but you know. You know, you know, but no, it's. It's. It's. It's similar to me. Lame is in that word sense. And just like taking. Using storytelling economically, which is ultimately what musical theater is supposed to be, right? Is it's taking a story that you have to condense in so many ways and then also kind of manipulate in so many ways, because not only are you using songs to properly express what a character is feeling, sometimes you're using music to guide an audience to a certain conclusion because you need them to feel a certain kind of way for a certain emotional payoff. And some shows use that wisely against you, Like Sweeney Todd does Pretty Women with this really beautiful melody right before Sweeney's about to Kill a Bitch. Something like Les Mis or Come From Away. The music is absolutely meant to help you, not make you feel a certain way, but guide you towards a certain emotional catharsis and using motifs to kind of help you clock back to certain moments. And I just think that when it's done poorly, you absolutely feel manipulated and you get. You, like, cross your arms. And I can see a world where some people would feel that way about come from away. Me, myself. And I. I'm like, I don't know. I get pretty on board five minutes in, and I am happy to, like, just sort of let go and let God.

[B]

And truthfully, when this man brought me to this musical, I did not know much about it, and I thought, okay, well, let's see. You know, and the way I was locked in. Yeah, like, minute five.

[A]

Minute five. Yeah. It's. I think what's smart about it is that they start on a high energy level. They start. What they do start is they start with a fucking drum beat. And that is a way to get.

[B]

And do you know. It's always the drum beat.

[A]

It's always the drum beat. Dream Girl starts with a cowbell. And I'm like, that's how you.

[B]

More cowbell, please.

[A]

I have a fever. And the only description is more cowbell. Like, that's how you get an audience's attention is.

[B]

No, I'm. There's a reason that when we were in dance class, like, they brought the drums.

[A]

Yep.

[B]

I was like, okay. I feel it. I get it. Yeah, yeah. Get in the pocket.

[A]

Yeah. Well, like, if you want. Again, every. So many musicals are so different. It's like you don't start lining the piazza. The drum beat or like heavy brass. But I. I appreciate a musical that's like. That starts with like. No, no. At your attention. It's what, in the central square.

[B]

Like, nah.

[A]

Right before Kelly comes on with her Oz. It's like cowbell, cowbell, cowbell, cowbell. No, but it's not quite gunkle of the pod. Adam Ellsberry and I always talk about what we love about the Michael John the Accuse of Wild Party is how it just starts with that blasted blues note of. And it's like it makes an entire audience go, oh, okay, yes, we've begun and come from way is sort of the same. Not that it blasts you. They wanted to guide you in peacefully. They go one, two, then three fingers. But they start off with that drum beat of like, it's beginning and it's not. Not on a saccharine level of like five strings and. And. And a piano being like. And then 9, 11 happened. It's like, no, no. Add attention. Energy's happening. And it doesn't even. They never fully talk about the attacks themselves. They allude to it. And the moment it actually happens in the show, it's so for all the talk about how, like, some people find the show manipulative, it's surprising how much restraint there is because we're talking about that opening number, right? And they go.

[B]

They're being extremely delicate, too, with.

[A]

I'm in my car, I'm at the station, and I turn on the radio. And they don't say what happens. They just play the. You are here so good. Gives me chills every time.

[B]

So good.

[A]

Let's actually just start getting to some characters here. I wrote them. I wrote all the main ones down so I could remember who they were and what's going on with them.

[B]

That's wise.

[A]

I. I think so. Otherwise, we're just like, you know, Jenn Colella.

[B]

You know, it's Jen Colella, the dude.

[A]

Who replaced Chad Kimball, Things like that.

[B]

Yeah. The lady with the pets that really got me.

[A]

Bonnie. That's Bonnie.

[B]

Bonnie.

[A]

So she's the one who gets you. Let's start with Bonnie.

[B]

Bonnie has. She's the rescue animals.

[A]

Yes. She's big on rescue animals. And she's the one who thinks of when all of the planes are landed in Newfoundland. She's like, there are animals on those planes. And no one will confirm for me. No one's checking in on them. So she trespasses on the airline plane.

[B]

I literally would do that, though. Like, the animals.

[A]

I know, I know. But that's her whole storyline, right? Is she's the one going in and she's checking on all of them. She's feeding all them.

[B]

Right.

[A]

One of my favorite lines in the show, because again, it's like. Like it's both a dad joke, but also just funny, is when she gets to the planes and she goes in and she's like, oh, she hears barking. And she goes, oh, there's a cat here that, like, needs to take its medicine. I'm so glad I came. And her husband's like, bonnie, you gotta leave. Like, I'm sure you've covered it all. And she's like, doug, she's like, I just fed a cat. Do you think that's who was barking? And she goes back in.

[B]

Thank you.

[A]

Yeah. I'm like, it's just one of those dumb jokes. Just like, the cat's not the one who was barking, Doug.

[B]

No, obviously. Doug.

[A]

She's like. I'm like, I have to stick around. There's clearly more. And then it turns out there is a bonobo monkey that gives birth. Sadly, they lose their baby, but they do. She gives birth to a baby. I know.

[B]

The animals, they really get me.

[A]

And you never see them, though.

[B]

I know. Well, yeah, you don't need to.

[A]

You don't need to.

[B]

But Bonnie is taking care of it.

[A]

You know, we also don't see in. Come from away. That I love.

[B]

What?

[A]

Children. We don't see any goddamn children. And come from away. They are alluded to.

[B]

Yeah, They're. They're. They put. They're keeping them safe. I don't know.

[A]

They're doing something with them. I'm just saying. I'm so glad that they weren't. Like, we should have one child actor represent all the kids.

[B]

I'm laughing because the chances of it being, like, one or several of, like, a young Anna or young Elsa is, like. Would be kind of fierce to me a little bit.

[A]

We are on a. We. We are in a knife's edge universe where that could have happened.

[B]

I. And I sort of am like, I understand why you are not on board for that, but I'm sort of like, what if?

[A]

I mean, yeah. Lauren's like, what if? And I'm like, but what if?

[B]

And that's why.

[A]

That's why we're friends.

[B]

That's why we see the world differently. It's good.

[A]

I see that as. As Chris, Christopher, Ashley going a full lempick. I'd be like, okay, we're gonna put her in an overgrown Lacoste shirt, and she's gonna be 12 different ages. She's gonna be both 4, 9, and 14.

[B]

Wow.

[A]

And she's gonna play every child in the world. And I'm like, thank God you didn't do that, because I just keep.

[B]

Have.

[A]

The kids can come to Come from away. I don't want them in come from away.

[B]

It's not about the kids.

[A]

It's not about them. I famously don't really love children on my stage. They need to be used sparingly and effectively, and that is a surefire way to get me to kill this show with fire is like. And then. Because they even said the right. I was watching the interview with the writers, and they were like, listen, they had, like, 50 make a wish kids in Newfoundland who had to get redirected from Disney World. There's a. There's a line about it in the show, and they're like, we said to ourselves, selves, we cannot give those 50 kids a number about not going to Disney World. Like, that would be camp. That would be awful. We would have been dragged out of New York City.

[B]

No, you can't.

[A]

But I. I like to think that that became their guiding star of, like, I don't think we have kids in this show. I think we just focus on the adults and, like, the kids are referenced and taken care of, and we just know that they are.

[B]

Right.

[A]

Yeah. Because also, like, those kids ain't going to the screeching.

[B]

I'm picturing them, like, moving the chairs. Aw, cute.

[A]

Sure. Imagine them kissing the fish. We'll talk about some more bops. Do anything you want to say about Bonnie and the rescue animals? Just besides the fact that in life, that's you. That's not your track, though.

[B]

None of them were my track.

[A]

That's not true. You're a total Janice.

[B]

Well, I didn't go in for it.

[A]

So I'm not, you know, but it's. It's gonna get put up everywhere.

[B]

Oh, yes. Well, I would love to do.

[A]

And I know what your career is. I know what you're right for. I am casting you in all the right things. In my brain.

[B]

Okay, great. In your brain?

[A]

Yes, my brain.

[B]

Perfect.

[A]

I'm slowly getting more influence in this world.

[B]

Great. That works. Well, no. That's all I wanted to say. She was a standout for me.

[A]

Okay.

[B]

Love her.

[A]

Jen Colella has two major roles. She has the first Annette, Female. Well, the first. Well, she has Beverly Bass, the first female pilot. Commercial airline pilot. And then Annette, who works at the school with Beulah. All you need to know about Annette is that she's horny.

[B]

You just love saying that, I think.

[A]

When did. When did you watch the show for research for this? Or did you just listen to the opening number 10 times and come on the podcast?

[B]

Oh, my gosh. Drag me, will you?

[A]

You're so little. It's easy to do.

[B]

Oh, fine.

[A]

Annette, go along with your.

[B]

Go along.

[A]

If you. If you decide to re. Watch the video after this, just know that Annette's whole thing outside of making sandwiches is that she's always horny for dong. There's a. There's a pilot that she keeps imagining is telling her, like, that she is so needed in these proceedings. And Beulah's like, he did not say that. And that's like, he said it with his eyes.

[B]

I love Beulah.

[A]

Beulah. Beulah's awesome. And then Annette also is like, we. Beulah's like, we needed help cleaning the bathrooms in the school because we had 700 people and, like, 12 bathrooms. And she's like, no one would offer. And then Annette goes. And that's when the 12 highest, like, top cardiologists in the country came in and they. And they cleaned our bathrooms. They were big, strapping men. And Beulah's like, yeah, they were doctors who helped us clean bathrooms. And that. She's like, but the way that they did it. And like, here's the thing. I am an Annette in private with friends. I'm a Beulah. Like, I'm a Beulah sun with a Annette rising or whatever that. Whatever that means.

[B]

Yes. What am I? I'm like a Bonnie sun.

[A]

What. Which is sun. Would you present in moon what your inner self is?

[B]

I think so.

[A]

Okay, don't correct me, everyone, because I don't know. But let's say sun is presenting. Moon is who you really are. I am definitely a Beulah sun and a Net Moon. You are a Bonnie sun and a Bonnie Moon. You're just.

[B]

I'm a Bonnie sun and a Bonnie Moon.

[A]

Bonnie Moon's a great drag name, by the way.

[B]

Work.

[A]

Yeah. I mean, I feel like maybe you're. Okay, who are the other women?

[B]

Because there's maybe Janice, but.

[A]

Oh, no, no. That's what you are, because you are. You're. You're a Janice in the streets and a Bonnie in the sheets in that. There's who you present as Janice of, like, I'm just. I'm doing my job, and I'm Janice. But when the chips are down, you're like, those animals are gonna get their pills.

[B]

Correct.

[A]

And I will cross the picket line to do it.

[B]

100%.

[A]

Yeah. That's who you are. I keep forgetting about Janice because that's also how I would cast you as.

[B]

So why do you keep forgetting about her?

[A]

Because I keep forgetting.

[B]

Well, go back to the text, Lauren.

[A]

I'm so old. There's a reason I wrote all this down. We're doing on time. We'll do a little bit more talking, then we'll go on a break. We have a couple more women. We have. Oh, we have Diane. Diane is the one who falls in love with Nick. The British dude.

[B]

Yes. And we needed love. We needed a love story.

[A]

Listen, I am absolutely a Beulah Annette. If there's what I hope for, I don't know what rising means. Maybe rising is, like, what we aspire for. I aspire for Diane the way I'm.

[B]

Like, gonna Google it really quick.

[A]

Go for it. Because I want to fall in love with a British man. It's all I want in this world.

[B]

Okay, we'll say it on the pod. Say it out loud.

[A]

I'm saying it out loud again.

[B]

Hi, everybody. Matt would love to fall in love with a British man.

[A]

If you could look like Colin Firth in Pride and Prejudice, that would be great. And. And continue being British, I would. I would also accept Hugh Grant in Four Weddings in a Funeral.

[B]

Okay. Just for the future.

[A]

Okay.

[B]

Because I love this. A sun sign represents a person's core identity. So, Bonnie. Sun.

[A]

No, your core identity.

[B]

Yeah. Yeah. Moon sign represents a person's emotional needs, inner self.

[A]

Interesting. I could have sworn it was about, like, presenting and true.

[B]

And your rising is your outward Persona.

[A]

Okay, so you are a rising Janus, and I would argue you are a Sun and moon. Bonnie.

[B]

Yeah, both. Bonnie.

[A]

Yeah. Your Photos are Bonnie. So you said sun is your emotional moon is no moon is emotional. Sun is core.

[B]

Sun is core.

[A]

Okay.

[B]

Rising is the one that's your outward Persona.

[A]

So yes, I would say that I am a rising Beulah with it. With a touch, with a touch of the more gay Kevin, the one who doesn't do the screeching and says that we are all freaking the fuck out. Love him. I would say I am a son is core. Okay, so son, at my core, I am the child wrangler that didn't get hired because there are no children in this show and I'm grateful to not have the job.

[B]

You're really stretching this.

[A]

Honey boo boo child.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

And then moon, my emotional moon. I'd say Diane, because I just want that. I want that love. I want that British.

[B]

You want the l'. Oeuvre. You want the British love.

[A]

I want the British love. And like Diane, I'm gonna find it in my 40s.

[B]

I hope that for you.

[A]

Well, I would hope for sooner, but I just know my, myself, I'm gonna.

[B]

It's fierce. Everyone says that in your 40s. It's like, yeah. When you're like, life is good, Life is good.

[A]

I'm gonna, I'm gonna be 45. Some 27 year old British dude who looks like Jacob Elordi is going to be like, hey, I just met you and this is crazy.

[B]

Not a Carly Rae Jepsen song.

[A]

We love, we love Cinderella, another princess, but he will give me his number and we will date and they will write a musical about it and it's going to be gorgeous.

[B]

Okay, well, so this is called Manifestation. We just talked about all of our signs and all of our risings and our beep ups.

[A]

Oh, you know what it's going to be.

[B]

And now you're manifesting.

[A]

I'm going to hit 40 and Kit Connor's gonna be 26 and that's when he's gonna be like, Matt, let's date. And I'll be like, I simply cannot. You are too young. It's gonna be very baby girl. But not problematic. That's what it's gonna be.

[B]

As long as it's not problematic.

[A]

I mean, I hope it's not problematic.

[B]

Let's, let's keep on that.

[A]

Kit's gonna be like, listen, as a child actor, as a former child actor myself, I understand your dislike of them. And I'm like, yes, Kit, work. And then we're gonna rock off into the sunset. That's gonna be our lives. And on that note, let's take another break.

[B]

Billy, I beg to differ with you.

[A]

How do you mean?

[B]

You're the top.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

You're an arrow collar. You're the top. You're a Coolidge dollar. You're the nimble tread of the feet of Fred Astaire.

[A]

And we're back. So believe it or not, everyone, there are also men in this show.

[B]

Who knew?

[A]

Well, there just aren't many men in this world, and I don't think they get their due. So I think we should acknowledge them a little bit.

[B]

Okay. They don't get their due. They get their due in every other show.

[A]

Lauren. That's what we call acting. I'm just that good. Well, Lauren's putting on sunglasses inside just.

[B]

Because it got a little shady in here.

[A]

It sure did. It got dark real quick. Okay, so I'm gonna. I'm gonna list off these men and tell you what. Who they are in the show. You tell me how much you remember them.

[B]

Okay.

[A]

We have Claude, who's the mayor.

[B]

Yes.

[A]

Fantastic.

[B]

We love.

[A]

He's always. And he's fighting against Garth, who is the, like, I guess, union rep for the school buses.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

Yep. Yeah. They're always saying, like, see it from my perspective. You see it from my perspective. That's part of the reason why everyone's on the planes for so long, because they're in the middle of a bus strike, so they. And they want to use the buses.

[B]

Right.

[A]

I forgot about that storyline until I rewatched it. That's how research works. There is Kevin and Kevin, the two gay men.

[B]

Yes.

[A]

Which there is nothing. What this show is so good about is they have two actors who look nothing alike, which isn't very gay, but they have the same name. So if you can't. If you can't be dating your physical twin, you'll dame your date your name twin.

[B]

And that's on maybe manifestation. I don't know. I'm bringing it back around.

[A]

Well, Lauren, you famously know quite a few gay men. They seem to like you.

[B]

I enjoy the gays very much.

[A]

Yes. And I think I speak for many of them when I say they enjoy you. Oh, thank God you're a fun time. You like to drink, you like to talk, and you like to be bubbly, but also shady at the same time. Never on mic, never on, never on. On the record. And just so everyone knows, I can be much shadier off the record. So just know that this is me being at my most well behaved.

[B]

But because I told him he had to.

[A]

Yes. Lauren was like, remember Matt.

[B]

Remember, Matt, words have consequences. They do, but.

[A]

So the gays like you, therefore, you have seen plenty of them. You had quite a few at your wedding, which. Thank you for that Ally show.

[B]

Thank God.

[A]

Yes, they were a good time. But you've seen gay couples.

[B]

Sure.

[A]

Even if they aren't an exact similar type. There's. There's always a little bit of a. Oh, you see A little bit of yourself in the other one.

[B]

I understand it enough to.

[A]

You married a blonde man. Like you're not immune.

[B]

Oh, my God. Anyways, we got Kevin and Kevin.

[A]

We have Kevin and Kevin. They're the gays.

[B]

They're the gays.

[A]

Yes. Who don't make it to the end, which I find a little bit homophobic. That we have one gay couple and they're the ones who don't make it at the end of the day. But to be fair, effeminate Kevin is not built for this story. He does not enjoy the screeching. He does not enjoy the wandering about like straighter Kevin, played not by Chad Kimball in the movie. He's like, I want to go for a hike. And bottom Kevin's like, I don't want to. And I'm like, girl, why aren't you saying yes and to this right now? What are you gonna do? Stay in the elementary school and stare at the wall?

[B]

They had to create conflict, I suppose.

[A]

So.

[B]

Not that there was already conflict going on, but.

[A]

But. But you, of course, remember the two gays.

[B]

Of course I remember. Me. Yes, Me, of course I remember the two gays. Of course.

[A]

And then more Effeminate Kevin also plays Ali, the Egyptian Muslim chef.

[B]

Yep.

[A]

Yep. We have to get back to him in a second because there's some pushback about the show and in regards his character and how the show used to uses him, which I don't know if you are aware of any of that.

[B]

I'm not.

[A]

Fantastic. So we're gonna take Lauren Nicole Chapman by surprise.

[B]

Great.

[A]

There's Oz, the Newfoundlander police chief, who has the first, like, real big laugh of the day in the show when they're all talking about what they were going on on about their days in welcome to the Rock. Because Beulah has that dumb dad joke where she's like, the students aren't happy to be staying inside on such a gorgeous day. So I told them we would have only half a day this morning. They love that. Till I told them we'd have the other half in the afternoon. I'm like, beulah, that joke is a gentleman's three out of 10. And you know it, which means it's actually a two. But Oz is like, when I see someone speeding down the street, I write them a ticket that says, stfd. Slow the fuck down. And I'm like, you know what, Oz? Not only is your name gay rights, but also. That's funny. I like him. I like him a great deal.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

We have Bob, who is one of the. I believe he's one of the passengers in the planes who helps out with the people of Gander of, like, sort of gathering things for the. For, like, cooking whatnot. Like, he goes. He talks about. Because he's also pointedly. He is the only black man in the show. It's specifically a black male track. He is nervous when he goes into someone's home to shower. He's nervous that they're gonna steal his wallet. And then the mayor's like, okay, we need, like, 50 grills to cook food for everyone. He's like, just go into people's backyards and take their grills. And he's like, I am a. I'm a. I'm a black man. I'm gonna get shot. And Claude's response is like, no, no, no. Because, you know, go into their backyards and steal their grills. And I'm not exaggerating. That's literally how it's played. He's like, no, no. And he's like, no, I'm gonna get shot. No, no, just go steal him. And so he does. And people are like, oh, yeah, you're taking my grill. Do you want some tea? And Bob's line is like, that's when I knew that my wallet was safe no matter where I went. And it's a fun moment. It's a fun time. It's using racism and the expectation of racism for levity, which is a hard line to walk.

[B]

Very hard, yes.

[A]

Lord knows, I cannot do it myself. I famously will probably be cancelled by the time this episode comes out. But I think that that is. The character of Bob, is a character where I feel like they do a good job of, like, acknowledging your expectation as an audience. And because Bob has the same expectation. And then when it doesn't go that way, it's the one time that hospitality isn't played for warmness is played for laughter. The character, the actress who plays Janice, the newscaster, has the line where they talk about how, like, oh, everyone's in the town, is telling passengers to, like, take them in and do stuff. And she says to someone, she goes, welcome to Walmart. Would you like to use my home to shower. And it's just. For some reason, it's. It's fucking funny. But that's sort of the Bob of it all. Oh, we forgot Hannah. Hannah has the. Has probably the real sad one. Hannah is a grandmama. Yeah. Lauren knows where this is going. See, Lauren, you do remember the show.

[B]

I remember the show. And Hannah, she broke my heart.

[A]

Yeah, she. She has a son who's a firefighter and lives in New York, I think. And she's trying to get in contact with him while she's grounded. And she. The only reason she's on this plane is because he was like, you don't go on vacation ever. I'm buying you a ticket to go somewhere. And then she's like, this is why. And now she can't find him. And she keeps trying to contact people in the station. He wasn't working that day, but apparently, like so many people came in anyway to work. And then she bonds with Beulah because she can't get in contact with anyone this entire time. So she. She and Beulah become friends to sort of take their minds off of it all. And then everybody departs Gander because it's some. You gotta leave sometime.

[B]

Mm. What's the saying? You can stay, but you can't stay here. What is it?

[A]

Oh, yeah, it's. Oh, gosh, no, it's. It's when you're. When you.

[B]

You don't have to go home, but you can't stay here. I don't know that that applies to this.

[A]

It's what they say at bars all the time. You don't have to go home, but you can't stay here. Well, but Hannah, when. After everyone comes back, goes home and we have the joyful of the. Somewhere in the middle of nowhere and everyone's kind of getting back to their lives. Hannah calls Beulah to let her know, my son did die. He did go in. He did the heroic thing and he died. And she and Beulah bond over it and they remain friends and they visit with each other.

[B]

So sweet.

[A]

It's so sweet because the show ends with its inception, which is the 10 year anniversary, and everyone showing up at Gander, right? And we find out that Diane and Nick got married and they honeymoon. Honeymooned in Gander. We find that a lot of people keep coming back to the town, that people start charities and acts of goodwill inspired by Gander. One of the moments that always makes me cry when I watch the show, because actually, let me ask you this, Lauren, do You have, like, anything in particular when you watch a movie or a show that makes you cry? Like, if. If you know that it has this thing in it, it's gonna make you cry.

[B]

I gotta be honest. It's more about musicals. And I think, like, if I have, you know, say, like, from the downbeat. Right. No, I'm serious. I'm not even.

[A]

I'm laughing because it's me.

[B]

But from the downbeat, if I know I'm really gonna enjoy a musical, I'm already starting to well up. And I think that's, like, why I do musicals. Maybe. Anyways, I'm fine. I'm not gonna cry.

[A]

You're great.

[B]

But that's kind of, like, why I do musicals, I think, is because it's.

[A]

I.

[B]

That is how I, like, express. Right. And so if I'm in a musical that I know, I'm really. I'm starting to really, really, like, come From Away was one of them, for sure. It's. I'm already sort of there. And then their stories, like, were so sweet. And, like, the full circle of it all is like, I don't know.

[A]

No, absolutely. I hear you.

[B]

So I. I don't know, like, TV show or movie, maybe if it touches on, like, personal life stuff, I'll start to. Well, but when it comes to, like, a.

[A]

A good musical, what is a TV show that made you cry?

[B]

TV show that made me cry. Oh, Parenthood.

[A]

Okay.

[B]

Constant.

[A]

Okay. Like, the emotional, personal stuff of that really, like, got to you.

[B]

Yeah. And just, like, their connection and stuff. It was, like, really special to watch.

[A]

So that's the thing with me of what tends to make me cry. I used to think it was just, like. I used to joke, like, when a parent realizes that, like, their weird kid is actually creative. But it's more than that. It's. It's what it.

[B]

That too.

[A]

That too. But what it is.

[B]

But now I'm, like, getting in my. Like, as I'm aging, I'm like. I don't know. I guess I'm like, maybe I'm seeking it out more.

[A]

I think we all are. It's. With so many things that have happened in the last 15 years, honestly, since 9, 11. The last 23 years, then of just. We keep getting more aware of all the awful things in the world, and it gets harder and harder to see the good stuff. And there is. There is good stuff. It keeps happening. It's just that the bad stuff is what takes up most of our brain now.

[B]

Right.

[A]

And we always say, like, you know, be the Good you want to see in the world. And it's hard to do that when your brain is just overwhelmed with negative feelings, negative thoughts, and you see terrible stuff. It's like, how can I combat that with anything? And for me, what always makes me cry is when people show up for people. When people just, like, are good. Yeah.

[B]

Like, inherently good or just, like, do.

[A]

A good thing for someone else.

[B]

Right.

[A]

And there are a million things that do that. It tends to happen more for me in movies and TV than it does in theater.

[B]

See, and that's what's so funny, is it's rare for it to happen for me in a TV and movie scenario. And it happens to me in the theater all the time.

[A]

And so.

[B]

And maybe that's just because that's how I express, for sure. So I'm, like, more tuned in, I guess.

[A]

But I think all the moments. Music is always prominent in the TV and movie that I. That it happens with me. For the main one, the one I've talked about a lot on this podcast, is hold your laughter, Lauren. It's the Christmas episode from two years ago of Bob's Burgers. Now, granted, I was in a very raw space when I watched this episode, but it still makes me cry.

[B]

So specific. But it was what you maybe needed in that moment.

[A]

And it's. And to my credit, it's now considered by most of the fans to be the best Bob's Burgers episode of all time. But it is just the long and short of it is all three kids have things going on that night for Christmas, and the parents can't make it to all of them. And so it's decided that the youngest one who's doing a poem at the library is the one that they have to miss because she told them, like, it doesn't matter. I don't care about this one. I put in a joke poem, and somehow they picked it. And the oldest sister, Tina, realizes, oh, no, too late. Like, oh, no, she put in a real poem. Like, this one means a lot to her, but she's nine, and she's a bit of a sociopath, so she doesn't like to tell people she has feelings, but she does care. And the parents keep trying to get there, but they can't. So everyone's just stuck. And at the last second, Tina leaves her own thing to go show up for her sister's thing, like, at the very last second. And every time I see Tina show up for that poem, I.

[B]

It gets you.

[A]

I'm already kind of a little teary and it's the same thing with like Will Ferrell in Lego Movie when he realizes that like his son didn't mess up his Legos, he just made a beautiful.

[B]

That actually. No, that really got me too. I was unexpectedly.

[A]

Yeah. When he. Because first he yells at his kid, Finn.

[B]

He's so mad.

[A]

And then he looks. Then he. But then he looks at all the pictures that he made and he goes, you made this. And then he hugs him. It's and perks of being a wallflower. I love it when people show up for people and come from away is just like that for 100 minutes straight.

[B]

Yes.

[A]

But specifically when the people get back on the planes and they're doing the takeoffs and one of the passengers, I think it's Bob gets up. It's either Bob or it's just the actor playing Bob gets up and he's like, I want to do something for them. He's like, and I don't know what to do. They. They wouldn't accept payment. They wouldn't accept anything. He's like, it's like, I'm starting a collection. Pass the hat around and like, let's just, you know, do something for them with whatever money I'm getting. Like, yeah, he's like doing just that. And I'm passing a hat and people start putting in money and they, they do something with it in the end and it. And it just becomes the pay it forward of it all. And that really, that like again I. The second time I saw it on Broadway, right after lockdown, I cried multiple times, pretty much non stop. But the moment that I just like became ugly. And it's weird that I'm ugly, but the moment I became ugly was when that hat happened. And then I just was that till finale.

[B]

I really wish I had seen it again after shutdown. I just think, you know, there's obviously so much perspective that has come with that time, hopefully for, for everyone. And so. Yeah. And then. And then like going back to what you said though, when Hannah like just lightly touches on the fact and like fact that her son like unfortunately did not make it and she calls to tell Beulah. Right. I think the payoff that we get from that is the fact that they haven't made it about 911 until that point, really. They've made it about this stories about these people and getting them what they need in this time. And there's been like little like sprinklings of like what's going on in the world. But that really comes at like a, you're already at a very vulnerable state. And then they hit you with like the reality of the scenario.

[A]

Yeah. You know, 911 is always kind of hovering in the background threatening to come in the door. And it has moments but they're.

[B]

I feel like they're really tasteful with when they choose to speak directly.

[A]

Absolutely. And I think it's more that it's little bits of information to see how it affects the people where one of the things that they do that is tricky. And I never thought of it until I watched it this morning with this question from the Discord Channel. Because now I'll actually get into one of the questions from the Discord Channel since you guys were so good to write in about it. Someone asked, I will say I first wrote rolled my eyes a little bit just because the podcast they mentioned is the podcast I do not like. But they said this is a take that is conveyed much better on the musical splaining episode. In the episode I guess musical splaining did of come from away. I don't like musical splaining that podcast. I love Lindsay Ellis. I think she's so incredibly smart. But I only kind of liked that podcast when she was the co host and then she left and I just couldn't listen to it anymore. That said, the question is the choice to avoid addressing Islamophobia and the discrimination that resulted from 9 11, especially given the show's 10 year later angle, makes the. This person said makes the piece come across as self congratulatory and dishonest. I don't think it makes it dishonest and there are pockets where they do hint at it.

[B]

Can you say that again? Because I want to make sure I.

[A]

Understand that fully that the show's choice to avoid addressing Islamophobia and discrimination of it that resulted from 9 11, especially with the show ending at a ten years later. This person, this listener thought makes the show feel self congratulatory and dishonest heard.

[B]

But the timeline, unfortunately it's.

[A]

I think what they're getting at is.

[B]

I guess it could be a more overarching thing of course but.

[A]

But I wouldn't even argue with something that a lot of Americans didn't really clock for a very long time. I would argue people weren't even clocking in the 10th anniversary of that long.

[B]

They were. Well and they weren't. You know. Yeah, of course I remember inherently like just not.

[A]

Yeah. There was an episode of Big Mouth, the cartoon show Big Mouth on Netflix.

[B]

You love cartoons.

[A]

I really do. Bob's Burgers and Big Mouth.

[B]

I mean, I've watched episodes of both of them and they're fabulous.

[A]

But I mean, also American Dad. Everyone knows how much I love Roger from American dad. My tastes are weird. Lauren.

[B]

No, I don't think they're weird.

[A]

What I mean is, like, I can quote all of Drop Dead Gorgeous, like, any gay man, while I'm also, like, I can also quote all of south park and American dad to you. That's what makes me so special.

[B]

It's giving range, it's.

[A]

It's giving verse. But, you know, on Big Mouth, they. There's an episode where they go to the Statue of Liberty for a field trip and the teacher's talking about, like, 911 and the terrorist attacks and how, like, America had to prove that terrorists didn't win. And one of the students was like, but, like, didn't they? And everyone's like, what the fuck are you talking about? She's like, I'm just saying, like, the. Our country, like, got torn apart because of that, and now we're still so incredibly divided and like, very prejudiced of different races and incredibly xenophobic because of it. Which is. There is a lot of nugget of truth to that. What I will say is that I never really thought of that as being a result of 911 until that moment. I think that come from way because ultimately it is a message about hope, and its themes are about showing up for people and being there for each other. It can't really go that deep on the aftermath of Islamophobia. And I think where some people get frustrated is it does touch on it. You see the seeds being planted a little bit, and it. You could argue whether it has its cake and it eats it too. The character of Ali, the Egyptian Muslim chef, gets discriminated against twice. The first time is when they're on the plains and they haven't been able to get onto the bus to leave yet. It's because he gets brought in for questioning and that's all that happens. And he gets put back on and they all go. And there's like another moment where they're all in the elementary school watching the news and they realize what's happened and it's the terrorist attacks and all these things and. And two or three different. Let's just say white people get very much like, who here is not an American? And just sees, like, any person of color. And it's like, you know, terrorists. And like, one person's like, I'm a Muslim, but I was born in Connecticut. Like just showing the beginnings of how we get here. And then right before they leave, Beverly Bass says that one of her flight attendants won't get on the plane because of Ali. And thus they have to call in like an interrogation to make sure that he's okay to fly with them despite the fact that he helped cook all the food for them.

[B]

Yeah, like, hello?

[A]

I know. And he ends up, he ends up having like, they allude to it, like, has like a deep cavity search. I think that for dissenters of the show, they could call Come from Away Toxic positivity. The musical where I think that's not correct is toxic positivity is ignoring trauma. It is ignoring darkness and sadness and it is ignoring problems for the sake of simplicity. It is the. Honestly, it's the progressive version of maga of like, I can't handle complications. So just, it's all good. I don't hate you. You don't hate me. It's all love. And I'm like, it's not all love. And ultimately that's what gives you cancer and many other ailments. And I don't think that come from away. Is that because there's also the having trauma, having dark things happen to you and not defining yourself by it and be like, no, I will overcome this. I will work through this and appreciate the good that has happened to me. And I mean it's. I'm assuming you're a literate person and you read diary Van Franken School. Like, yeah, yeah. I mean that's ultimately what the end of her diary is like. I still believe that people can be good and she's living in an attic and eventually going to the camps. Like, and this is how she, how she views the world.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

I think that there's a lot of that DNA income from away, like, and we lose having the show be about Ali and see what happens to him in those 10 years. So we see him being profiled and having this cavity search and then we see him 10 years later. So we haven't seen him go through the healing process of all of that and what he goes through on a day to day. We just see him choosing positivity and love and talking to Beulah and the joke of like, give me the recipe for that fish and cheese. Spoiler alert. It's just fish and cheese. But, but, but there. You can be frustrated by the lack of more in there, of course. And I think, I don't think that it's the writers going, well, it's not important. We want people to focus on the good so much as, like, we don't have the time and the story. There's more good in this story than. Than there is bad. And we would be dishonest if we didn't acknowledge any of the bad. But if we just. If we just lived in that for. By the end, what's the point of even telling the story? Because so many people's lives are affected for better, including the people that bad stuff happened to.

[B]

Right.

[A]

So I recognize that, but we need.

[B]

To talk about it.

[A]

Okay, next up. Sorry. Talk about your history with Come From Away. We talked about that. Okay. Did Christopher Ashley deserve best director at that year at the Tonys? And can you talk about the Tonys in general? We did talk a bit about the Tonys. Christopher Ashley. Lauren, you've been on Broadway, famously, so how would you define a director's job? It's not just staging.

[B]

No, it's not just staging. It's the overall arcing theme and maintaining the vision that they have for the show on all ends of the spectrum. It's somebody checking in with design. It's somebody checking in with, like, they're the person that all of these creatives are checking in with to make sure that everyone's in line. Hopefully everyone's in line with what the view for the musical or the show was. Was supposed to be about.

[A]

Yeah, everyone's on the same page. Everyone's.

[B]

Everyone's on the same page. Everyone's in, you know, working towards the same goal.

[A]

Yeah. And in the same.

[B]

Yes.

[A]

If. If it's. It sounds like such an easy answer to say, but, like, if you ever find a bump in a show you're seeing, like. Like, you can go back to the director and be like, why is that bump there? Every. That they are the point of reference for all design, all creative, all acting. And so it's why we. When we were in school together, we had a professor who I don't like, but he did say one thing that I thought was very wise, which is, like, as an actor, it's not your fault if you get cast. So if you're a miscast, like, you do your best. Like, you went in, you auditioned, they wanted something in you, and, you know, you just do the best you can. So if you see a performance in a show that you think is lacking, you have to go back to director and be like, why? A, why did you cast them if they don't have what it takes? And B, how are you not helping them further? Like, you got set up everyone for success. I've never watched a cast and seen a bad performance and been like, oh, I blame the actor.

[B]

Mm.

[A]

They're. They're just doing their best. So for something like Come From Away, especially with that original company and how it's all set, like, the tone that showed walks such a high wire, and the tone is set by the writing, it's set by the actors. It's set by the design. And it all comes from director. So it's not just, oh, he uses the turntable really well.

[B]

It's.

[A]

Everything is in line, and that is a director's job. And I think with Ashley, that is something he did really well with this show of, like, you're gonna come in rolling your eyes, and you're gonna walk out weeping. So how do we do that? Yeah. I don't know. That was me talking, but I wanted.

[B]

No, I. I was. I agree with everything you just said.

[A]

I'm just saying, like, you've been in the room where it happens on a few occasions, so you've seen these professionals work on this stuff. And so as someone who's had blood in the game, I just wanted to hear your take on that.

[B]

Yeah, I mean, no. I mean, a good director is somebody who can bridge the gap.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

Who can. Because again, going back to what we said earlier, not every piece is going to be perfect. There's always going to be holes. And hopefully, if you work together and everyone's on the same page, the holes aren't as craters. You know what I mean? As cratery. Like, they're like, you're able to sort of move through, and it makes sense and, like, come from Away is a really good example of that because it just. I think the through line and the theming is like, yeah. Chef's kiss.

[A]

Speaking of musical splaining, Lindsay Ellis did say something on the in the Heights episode of that podcast where she was like, listen, ultimately, at the end of the day, if a musical doesn't work for you, everything just becomes an example of why it didn't work for you.

[B]

Right?

[A]

But when a musical does work for you, everything becomes an example of, like, why it succeeds or things that you don't mind, because overall, the show is effective for you.

[B]

Right.

[A]

And you want to just try to do your best to make a show not as airtight, but, like, as strong against criticism as possible.

[B]

You're the top.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

You're an arrow collar. You're the top. You're a Coolidge dollar. You're the nimble tread of the feet of Fred Astaire.

[A]

Do you have really any really good advice a director gave you either on Broadway or in skill?

[B]

Or in skill?

[A]

On skill.

[B]

I guess not off the top of my head, but I think I always enjoy when a director has a clear vision, whether I agree with it or not. Right. Like if they have a clear vision and they're willing to have a collaborative process in order to make sure it's like the least sucky version of whatever we're doing, I think that's what I gravitate towards. But yeah, and I love when they're like a human and they're like, this part sucks. How do we make it better? Like, let's all think about this, you know, like understanding that like, yes, they are the, the touch tone for like theme and, and everybody who's working on the same thing, but that they, you know, understand that it's not just a one person job.

[A]

1,000%. Yeah.

[B]

Yeah, I guess.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

Sort of like a broad stroke, but.

[A]

Best idea always wins. And also when they have a clear vision, it makes your job as an actor easier even if you don't agree with the vision. It's like, well, now I know what I'm doing.

[B]

Yes.

[A]

I know where we're going. And I can figure myself out and.

[B]

Somebody who is malleable in that too, to allow a collaborative process, I think is like sick.

[A]

Yeah. Hot take. If you're collaborative. I like you. Someone writes broad and a little late as I kept meaning to request this for the whole series. Oh, this is someone who was asking questions back from when I did the Sondheim series. And they asked this for nine too. But they said you talked about pretty, you know, stripping down a show to its essence. And like, how would you strip down shows to like, be like the most compact they could be? Comfort Way is already pretty stripped down. But, like, is there? Oh, I'm sorry, obviously. But I always honestly just wanted to hear my. They just like hear me talk about stripping a show down to its essence. I don't think you can really strip come from away down much more than it already is, other than like taking away the turntable. But if you ever hear me say I prefer no turntable, that's how you know my body's been swapped with an alien. I love a turntable and I will always ask for it if it's there.

[B]

Really?

[A]

I love it. I think it's one of the best.

[B]

That's kind of shocking to me.

[A]

Really? Yeah, I love them.

[B]

Okay. I mean, I love this.

[A]

People have used them terribly. People have Matt Koplik loves the turntable.

[B]

Loves a turntable.

[A]

He really does. Well, like, people have used them terribly or overused them, but, like, some of my favorite staging moments include a turntable. My favorite moment of staging this year was Hills of California with the turntable, with the staircase. When old Joan is about to go.

[B]

Up the staircase and see when it's used really well. It's very effective.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

Listen, y', all, like, come back around. I'm ready.

[A]

When Frozen reveals older you.

[B]

Oh, it really was heartbreaking.

[A]

It's beautiful.

[B]

That part was really, really beautiful.

[A]

Other questions? Inspired by both the Sondheim series and the British Invasion 1. Who would you want to see in this show? Laura Nicole Chapman, number two. If you had to cut one song from the show, which would it be? I mean, it's a pretty tight show. The one song that I tend to sort of phase out on is like, into the Darkness or out of the Darkness, whatever it's called. It's when they. When they leave the planes and get on the buses to go to the next destination. It's just not. It's not one that I'm jamming out to. It's not one that I'm particularly moved by. I also don't love, much as I love their story, I don't love Diane and Nick's final, like, lovers duet song where they're taking the photo. Yeah, it's a bit of a skit for me.

[B]

Sure.

[A]

It's. No, say it somehow. You know what I mean?

[B]

Sure, sure.

[A]

On a scale of 1 to 10, how would you rate this show in the Broadway incarnation? For me, it's like, probably a 9.5 out of 10. On its own merits as a musical, I would probably say an 8 out of 10. It is not a show that is indestructible. A weak ass director can totally kill it. That said, there are very few shows that I think a weak ass director can kill.

[B]

Also, like, as we've discussed, there are some really delicate moments in this and, you know, they need to be treated with.

[A]

With respect.

[B]

Yeah, respect, delicacy and intelligence.

[A]

Absolutely. Who is your dream team for this? For a production? Who would I want to see, direct or choreograph this? Because I gotta say, like, I really did enjoy the OG Lauren. Any upcoming directors you've worked with on readings that you enjoy who think could do a good job with this?

[B]

Oh, my gosh.

[A]

It's just like, you know, so many people.

[B]

I wouldn't be mad at, like, a woman stepping up to, like, women can direct. Shut up.

[A]

Oh, my God.

[B]

No, but I just think, as you mentioned, yes, we do have some, like, awesome man roles in this. In this musical. But I think it's really cool to see all the women, like, rising up.

[A]

And the women are the better roles in this show.

[B]

And so I would sort of love to see, I don't know, maybe like, a Sarah Oglievey or like a Joanne Hunter.

[A]

Oh, Joanne Hunter. That'd be cool.

[B]

Do you know what I mean? Like, I need, like, a badass, badass lady director.

[A]

I feel this is such a cop.

[B]

Out because I also, like. I'm picturing. I'm, like, picturing them with the opening scene, and I'm, like, here for it. Like, the energy that they bring into a room would be something that would be so fun.

[A]

Yeah, this is a cop out because I just said her name in the Nine episode when asked who I would want to direct a production of Nine, but I would see a Jessica Stone directed Come From Away.

[B]

Okay.

[A]

Yeah. I enjoy her thoroughly. And I enjoy. She's had two shows where I enjoyed the musical and her work and another musical where I enjoyed her work. So with that in mind, I've yet to be disappointed with Jessica Stone direction. Love it. Yeah. Okay, sorry. Discord keeps scrolling all the way back down to the bottom of the Comfort Way channel. Okay, next one. Apparently, they're doing this at the Muni, and someone asked, what are our thoughts of them doing it at the Muni? Is it too small of a show? Will they use the entire youth ensemble as the passengers? If they know what's good for them, they will take children off of that fucking stage.

[B]

You know that's not gonna happen.

[A]

No, they're gonna pull what Lear d' Espacenet did with into the woods at Encores and put kids in the audience and sing, sing. Children will listen.

[B]

I'm actually here for it. But I know you. You have your opinion.

[A]

We just watched that episode of Gilmore Girls where Lorelai and Suki go to Miss Patty's dance show with the kids, and they start off by doing magic to do in the audience. And Lorelei's like, oh, God. Oh, God. Kids are in the audience.

[B]

Kids are in the audience.

[A]

Bitch, it's me.

[B]

That's you for sure.

[A]

Yeah. Them doing it at the Muni is wild.

[B]

It's wild. But can I say. I mean, can I say, like, the Muni does a lot of musicals that I'm like, wow. That, like, they did Kinky Boots, and I was like, that's a pretty intimate, like, setting for the musical and they pulled it off so I'd be interested.

[A]

Oh, I. I'm not. I do not doubt that they'll do a really good job of making it work for that stage. It is just. I mean, Kinky Boots. While it is mostly a unit set with some slides and a thing that twirls. Right. There's that center thing that twirls in king boots. Like.

[B]

No, it's office.

[A]

Does its office have a center?

[B]

No, it doesn't. It's stationary. It does move back and goes off, but then like the walls are. Are always there. And then like treadmills. Of course.

[A]

I mean, I'm conflating the Sweeney Todd unit set with the Kinky Boots unit set.

[B]

Ah, yes. I confuse Sweeney Todd and Kinky Boots all the time.

[A]

Well, there's a factory whistle just. But also Kinky Boots has like pussy pop and drag queens, which comfort way does not. And the muni is like. Well, we make up what we lack in set, we make up for in pussy popping drag queens. We have 90 of them in a kick line. That wasn't Lauren's track in Kinky Boots. In case anyone's wondering, Tiny Mullet. That was your nickname.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

I don't know what you're gonna talk. Who. I don't know who you're going to have talk about it, but love to hear someone who saw it at nampt. Neither of us saw it at nampt.

[B]

Sorry, sorry.

[A]

We're not that special.

[B]

We didn't.

[A]

I saw the touring production and thought it was very good. Casting was incredible. Talented people. Truly diverse group of humans. I appreciated the meticulous thought that went into that. It was obviously built to tour because there wasn't. There wasn't a turntable. So the staging was different.

[B]

Yeah. Turn. It's very rare that you would have a turntable on tour.

[A]

Yeah. You didn't have one for Frozen. Gross. Gross. Put it in the deck. My. My guy. I love the fact that the show doesn't really have any vocal show off numbers besides Me in the sky and focuses on having really emotional, powerful group numbers.

[B]

And everyone knew that we need. We wanted a done Colella belt song. So that's why.

[A]

That's why she gets it.

[B]

Yeah, it's.

[A]

That was why she got. She was the lone Tony nominee of the cast. I mean, listen, there are some vocal arrangements where they go pretty high, but it's never.

[B]

Also, can we just say while she was totally like rightful to be in that category. Like musicals don't always have to have like a billion belt Songs. And, like, that isn't the reason that everyone should be. I mean, listen, you're coming from a belter, but, like, that's not the reason everybody's like, yeah, nominated.

[A]

We're talking to someone who paid for her entire wedding belting through America.

[B]

It's true.

[A]

And listen, we love to hear it. Olive oil, my love. But you're also talking to someone pointing to me who may or may not have had a viral Instagram post 2 years ago bemoaning the state of music.

[B]

I sort of. I. I also sort of love that not every song is a belt song.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

It makes. It makes that song pay off. It makes us tune in. And, you know, I just like, if.

[A]

You know Jen Colell, it's not even the roof of her register.

[B]

No, she can go higher.

[A]

She. Absolutely. And they. And they could have done so, but they didn't.

[B]

No, they kept it where it needed to be.

[A]

Yeah. And it builds to it, too. Like, it's. It me and this.

[B]

She earns it.

[A]

Yeah, it's. It's. It's a building belt that she's not on those E's the entire time she.

[B]

100.

[A]

It's very wizard.

[B]

And I. I actually loved that because after a while, if every single song is a belt song, I tend to go, okay, well, we know that they can all sing really well, and I hope that they can because they're in a Broadway musical.

[A]

But, you know, I mean, it's. It's great voices all around in that company. Oh, somebody else. Yeah, someone else wrote about seeing it in Toront and really loving the diversity of the cast.

[B]

Love.

[A]

And their mom. Loved their mom. Really loved seeing, quote, unquote, regular people on stage, which is very much the case of the Broadway company as well, which I feel like is always a tricky thing to say because it's like, oh, thank God you're not gorgeous. And that's not what I mean.

[B]

That's a tricky place to come from.

[A]

It's a tricky place to come from. But I've also. I have bemoaned, in addition to the state of musical theater writing, that Broadway has had a very difficult time understanding what diversity means. And honestly, Broadway fandom of counting. I call it counting the color, which is like looking through a cast and seeing who's, you know, what ethnicity, which is important to have that. But there's also gender, there's sexuality, there is body size, there is age, there is agility. And it's not just cast. It's also who's on the production team. Who's backstage? Like, backstage. Whoever's running backstage really handles the tone of a show.

[B]

That's the other thing. We can't just, like. We're not just talking about, like, diversity based on who everyone's on stage. If we're telling a diverse story, it calls for a diverse creative team as well.

[A]

Absolutely. And I think that with Come From Away, it is. The diversity is not just the ethnicity. It is the age, it is the body type, it is the vocal type. It's. It's. You're seeing all walks of life on stage. Yeah. Because, you know, there are tons of super attractive people and Come From Away, but also, what is considered attractive is different from every person. And that's not me being a tree hugger. That's just literally there are billions of people on this earth. We're all gonna be attracted to different kinds of things.

[B]

Such an interesting comment, because as somebody who is walking into a room and trying to understand each character that I'm going in for, like, sometimes I'm dolled up and I have a lip on and heels, and sometimes I'm walking in in my tennis shoes. And that's. I don't know, that's. We're all multifaceted humans.

[A]

Well, I don't think that they. I don't think that they're saying, like. I don't think they're saying that. I think they're saying more that it's. There has been a time where Broadway actors were cast as specific type of a specific look, sometimes over personality or vocal agility or ability. And with Come From Away, it's not about abs, it's not about, you know, height or waist size. It is purely about personality. And it is about just sort of being as different from each other as possible. You don't want two people on stage to mix them up. And I think part of that is also just the artistry of the show of you've got 12 actors playing a bunch of different roles. If two actors look too alike in hotness, you're gonna mix up who's playing who. You need. You need the actress playing Beulah to look different than the actress playing Hannah, right? Yeah. And the two Kevin's gotta look different because they're both named fucking Kevin and they're gay.

[B]

And that's why the casting was amazing and why.

[A]

And why it continued to have really good replacement casting. But also, like, why a lot of those actors stayed with the show for most of the run because some of them weren't gonna get to play a leading role in. In, you know, Mean Girls or in spongebob. It's just sort of. There's. There are plenty of people with keys to the gate, and they have a very specific idea of what is considered a successful actor on stage. It's frustrating, and it's limiting, and they're not. And it's not everyone. I want to make that very clear. We don't have a hundred casting directors and directors out there being like, okay, Michigan graduates. White, blonde, six abs, has to be able to belt up to an E. That's not everyone. But it also would be dishonest to say that there aren't a few of them who do do that. Fewer of them now, a lot of them have left the industry, but there are some of them. So I appreciate that they talked about that. But I also hear you outwards, like, it's. When someone comes into the room without makeup on, you don't go, oh, my God. So brave. I'm so happy to see that.

[B]

It's like.

[A]

It's like, I just. I just didn't wear makeup.

[B]

I just, like. Like today I didn't feel like wearing makeup or whatever. I don't know.

[A]

Yeah. Let me very clear. Lauren is wearing makeup right now, and thus she is worthwhile to me. And on that note, let's take one last break.

[B]

How do you mean you're the top?

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

You're an arrow collar. You're the top. You're a Coolidge dollar. You're.

[A]

And we're back. Okay, so last couple things on the Discord, I did ask about the rankings of that season of best musical. As I said, a lot of people had come from away and Great Comet in their top two. Someone else wrote. I was. I haven't been able to get into Come from away from the cast album. I don't have Apple tv, so I haven't been able to watch it. I do think it's not as strong. While this is a weird one for me, this is a score that is filled with bops, and yet I'm like, the cast album doesn't really represent what makes that show work. Which is weird to say for a score that I like. And then it's very hummable.

[B]

Sure.

[A]

Like when I tell people Groundhog Day doesn't. You don't understand what made me love Groundhog Day just by listening to that score. Like, you gotta see the show, especially because they have certain tracks where it's just music. I'm like, there was staging happening here. Can we not give the listener a little something here?

[B]

To mention it's. It's hard to fully encapsulate.

[A]

Yeah, Come From Away is a much better listening experience than that. But still, I'm like, you should watch it. You should watch it.

[B]

Yeah, if you can borrow somebody's password.

[A]

Listen, I've borrowed our friend's Disney account for a while now, and they haven't caught on yet, so. Oh, and by them, I mean Disney, my friend, doesn't care. People just asking about, like, the politics of the Tonys of best musical winners.

[B]

That was a really stacked year. It was a really stacked year.

[A]

It was a stacked year because Come From Away as again, they only ended up winning director. I say only, but it is a. That is a weird situation where the one thing you win is that because there have been years where, like, usually best Director, this is why you bring me on again, because this is how my brain works. Director will usually go to a best musical winner or a best revival winner. Occasionally it'll go to a random show for whatever reason. Like, they did something really cool with whatever. It's like the Sweeney Todd revival with the instruments. They won director because even though they didn't win revival just because it's like John Doyle took Sweeney Todd and made it work for nine actors and instruments, you're in Town won director, but they also won score and book. Like, Come From Away just won that one thing. And it makes you wonder, like, people who voted for Evan Hansen in a slew of ways but couldn't ultimately give it director, or voted for Dolly for revival but couldn't give it director, and makes you wonder why they couldn't do that.

[B]

Right.

[A]

And it's possible with Evan Hansen, there was just wasn't enough theatrical staging to push them over the edge. And Dolly was ultimately so much of a blueprint of the original that people weren't really willing to give Jerry Zaks credit for it. I know that's why Warren Carlisle was deemed ineligible because they were like, it's too much of the original for us to give you a nomination. So it's possible that that infiltrated the Jerry Zaks win. I don't know. It may sort of just be, like, everyone ultimately kind of went with the originality of Dear Evan Hansen and it being just such a massive hit, but not wanting to completely goose egg Come From Away. But I don't know between not which, like, which one you think is better, but, like, which one you lean more towards on terms of score or book. Between Evan Hansen and Come From Away. Is there, like, one where you're like, if I were to vote, I probably would vote for this. And here's why.

[B]

I think I would have voted for Come From Away. I loved Dear Evan Hansen. I loved the music. I thought the storytelling was amazing. I think I loved that Come From Away was giving me a slice of life, a slice of a real story, maybe one that I didn't know anything about. And here we had this big inciting incident. And, like, I just found it completely fascinating. And I just think that everything worked together so well in that way. Whereas, like, Dear Evan Hansen was a contemporary new musical, which I loved, but I knew exactly sort of where we were maybe going. Now, did I sob through the whole thing? Absolutely. You know, and the music I still listen to to this day, and it's amazing. However, as a storytelling, overarching moment, I loved Come From Away.

[A]

Yeah. I think Come From Away for me was ultimately the more exciting and fulfilling theatrical experience.

[B]

Yes.

[A]

Which is why I ultimately give it Best musical.

[B]

And again, all of the aspects working together. Thank you, director. But, like, all of the aspects working really, really well together to tell the story.

[A]

Listen, I am someone who loves chaos. There's that meme of the. Of the guy in the window. This is like, it's like, freak or something like that. That's like, yes, yes. And everyone's like, oh, that's me going to wicked screenings and, like, singing along when it's not a sing along. Things like that. That version of me is voting at the Tony Awards and voting for Great Comet for score, Come From Away for book, and Groundhog Day for musical and being like, don't ask me to define why I just did. Fuck off. But if we're talking in a world where I have to take the Groundhog Day out of it and my love of chaos out of it, I think I would do Come From Away for book, director, and musical, still comment for score. And I probably would still give Ben and Rachel Bay Jones their Tonys for Evan Hansen, because those were dynamic performances.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

And it's not. It speaks less about any disdain I have for Evan Hansen and more about my joy of Come From Away that I would pick it over Evan Hansen.

[B]

I'm also, like. I'm like, an underdog girl always.

[A]

Also, these hypotheticals are so safe because, like, Evan Hansen got its Tonys. It has its money.

[B]

Totally. We're just talking, like, exactly.

[A]

Like, it has its acclaim. We're not taking anything away from it.

[B]

Yeah. It was amazing. Everyone loved it.

[A]

Yeah. It's one of those things. It's like, it's Such a safety net to like go into this hypothetical because it happened so long ago.

[B]

I'm an underdog queen.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

And I really think that Come From Away was like a super well rounded.

[A]

Yeah. You're talking to somebody who like.

[B]

And it's a 90 minute no.

[A]

It's an. It's a 90 minute no. Even if it's technically speaking, 100 minute nigh. But the.

[B]

Which I love. Succinct.

[A]

It's succinct. But also like speaking of underdogs, you're talking to someone, Lauren, who on Tony night this year, despite.

[B]

What are you about to say?

[A]

Despite all evidence that it wasn't going to happen, I sat there and went, marianne Plunkett for best actress in a musical. Mary Ann Plunkett for best actress in a musical. Make it happen. Make it happen. And it didn't and it was never going to. But I sat there, I was like, please, I ask for so little. Aside from the million things I wake up every morning asking for. Alright. Any other things on the Discord? No, that was really it. I think people just sort of going into their questioning of why they maybe couldn't get into Come From Away just from the album as opposed to not having having seen it. Wondering, you know, how much of people's love for Coming From Away comes from now. They're like lack of liking Evan Hansen as much after the fact. And I do think that the fandom of theater really loves pendulum swings. They love going from one extreme to another. And when we decide that something is bad, we then start making the opposite thing. The good. Even if we didn't feel as much in the before time.

[B]

Right.

[A]

Which is fine. That's we. We watch these characters swing back and forth and come from away. We watch them screech in one might say the fish. And they. They. They kiss a fish.

[B]

A fish.

[A]

They kiss a fish while wearing boat hats.

[B]

Love it.

[A]

It's.

[B]

I love it.

[A]

Fine.

[B]

I love it.

[A]

We love it. We love it. But I feel like because you said earlier that you felt it didn't get its proper due at the time and I hear you and I don't think you're totally wrong. But also I think because it's now close ed and it didn't win best musical. People want and now people. Not you, but many people out there have a disdain for Evan Hansen. It's like, well, did we. Did we give Come From Away as much acclaim as it should have gotten? The interesting thing I was looking at, I like to look at the Broadway grosses a Lot. And I was looking at the grosses of shows that ended up closing after Covid. Like, what was going in their business box office wise. Like right before lockdown and come from Way and Evan Hansen were two shows that, like Covid absolutely killed. Because if you look at the, like, their grosses the six months leading up to Covid still selling out every night, like, grossing anywhere between 800k to 1.2 million. Like, those shows had another, like five years in them and ultimately neither of them were able to make it past a year when Broadway reopened.

[B]

And this is a whole nother podcast. But yeah. And we're not back.

[A]

We're. We are.

[B]

We're not fully back.

[A]

We're not fully back once we've gotten two steps closer. One step back.

[B]

Correct.

[A]

For every show, like an oh, Mary or Death becomes or that or Sunset Boulevard that is doing really well, we have shows that are struggling a bit and need to find their way. Things like maybe happy ending are giving me hope because that show is on the upswing. But then we have other shows that haven't, but also some shows that people have been getting behind that maybe I don't get behind. So, Lauren, who am I to say that a show deserves to close? All I'll say is that I saw a show and I said, I hope everyone involved gets a job immediately afterwards.

[B]

Yeah, that's a thing.

[A]

But also, Broadway is the only ecosystem, Lauren, where the loss of jobs begets new jobs. Sure, a show closes, another one goes in. It doesn't make the show closing any sadder.

[B]

No, but everyone has to lose their jobs and then get said new job again. And it's. Sometimes those things are very few and far between.

[A]

It's true. You never know when the next job is gonna happen. But, you know, Frozen went into the St James and Finnian's Rainbow had to close for that to happen, among other things, shows. So it's just. It's one of those things where I. You'll never hear me ever celebrate the loss of a job for someone. But when we talk about how this is a fandom that loves to be, like, we need more new stories. We need diverse stories. We need.

[B]

Agreed.

[A]

We need more representation. I'm like, the only way that happens is for theaters to be available.

[B]

So if we keep pushing and sometimes.

[A]

The show's time just comes to an end. There are some shows that didn't get their proper due that came in and out a little too soon. But there are some shows that, like, had a nice, healthy run and we can say Congrats for you. Now make. Make peace and make room. Make peace and make room. Wow. I want that on a shirt.

[B]

That was deep.

[A]

Thank you so much.

[B]

Whoa.

[A]

Sometimes I say deep shit.

[B]

Make peace and make room.

[A]

Make peace and make room.

[B]

Wow. Namaste.

[A]

Namaste. That's what I'm gonna say to you at your one year anniversary.

[B]

You're a writer. I'm a. I. Lauren, I know you wrote a play. See, I did that for you.

[A]

Thank you, guys. It's okay. Lauren's married.

[B]

I'm married.

[A]

She's so married. She could not be more married if you tried. Lauren, where can people find you if you want them to find you?

[B]

You can find me on Instagram. Lauren Nicole Chapman. And that's. That's pretty much it.

[A]

That's on main. I'm on Instagram only. Acopolic. Usual spelling. I know this is one of the shorter episodes of Broadway Breakdown, you guys, but consider this. We are covering a 90 minute no. So in a way, this is our version of a 90 minute no.

[B]

That's right.

[A]

Yeah. It's what it is. If you like the podcast, give us a nice 5 star rating or review. It always helps with Apple podcasts. I don't think we've had any new ones since. Since I read the review for the Gypsy episode. And you don't always have to write a five star review if you hate the podcast. Lord knows people have written two stars. Three stars, one star. I just ask if you dislike the podcast and you want to make it known. Just be respectful with your dislike. As I try to be with my dislikes. Lauren, we close out every episode with a Broadway diva. I'm assuming I know who you're gonna pick, but I put her in post. Do you want Daddy Colella or do you want someone else?

[B]

I want Daddy Colella.

[A]

Okay, I'm gonna. I had her do her song from Chaplin. I'll see what else she's got out there.

[B]

Chaplin.

[A]

What you gonna do? Yeah, I remember seeing her in that. I was like, oh, girlfriend came to eat.

[B]

Yeah, I think that's the one.

[A]

I said, for someone who is so thin she eats all the time, I.

[B]

Have nothing to say.

[A]

You have nothing to say, and I have too much to say. Okay, so on that note, I think this actually might be the first new episode of the new year, so welcome to the to January, everybody. I don't know what's after this episode, but I look forward to finding out with you all. Take it away, Daddy. Bye.

[B]

Take it away, Daddy. Now get yourself outta here Whatcha gonna paint when you cannot paint a town? I'm gonna wipe the smile from that famous clown and what you're gonna do when it all falls down and all the king's horses and all the king's men will never again.