Transcript

Natalie Walker (0:28)

You are such a lovely take away in. It's such a shame to bury girls in the country.

Natalie Walker (0:39)

Such a shame.

Matt Kopeck (0:40)

Hello all you theater lovers both out and proud and on the DL. Welcome back to Broadway Breakdown, a podcast discussing the history und legacy of American theater's most exclusive address, Broadway. I am your host, Matt Kopeck, the least famous and most opinionated fall of the Broadway podcast host. And I forgot to say this in part one, this series is called Matt's Picks and it is covering shows that you've submitted to Sally. Bo and I did not pick out, but I wanted to cover anyway. So we are back for part two with friend of the pod, Ms. Natalie Walker. We've been able to keep her a whole week. We kept her in the studio this entire time and she just stayed for seven days, but she back. Hello, Natalie.

Natalie Walker (1:17)

Hello. Hello. I love living with you. I love it.

Matt Kopeck (1:22)

You love me so much. I'm a good reader.

Natalie Walker (1:24)

I'll never leave. Yeah, you will never leave. I'm evening primrosing in here. I love that.

Matt Kopeck (1:30)

Oh, I was going. I was going sideshow. I will never leave you. But, yeah, I knew you were going. More niche. I appreciate. Thank you.

Natalie Walker (1:36)

Yeah. That I'm just. I'm a mannequin and I come alive at night.

Matt Kopeck (1:40)

I mean, in a lot of ways, you are Charmaine Carr and I am Anthony Perkins. You are an ingenue and I am gay.

Natalie Walker (1:47)

That's. That's fair. Yeah, that's fair.

Matt Kopeck (1:51)

That is fair.

Natalie Walker (1:51)

And you. And you're with mother.

Matt Kopeck (1:54)

And I am with mother. Not for much longer, though.

Matt Kopeck (1:59)

We're flying.

Natalie Walker (2:00)

You're moving. You're moving out of your. Your Bates Motel?

Matt Kopeck (2:04)

My, My, My Great Gardens. Yes.

Summary

Broadway Breakdown — Deep Dive: NATASHA, PIERRE & THE GREAT COMET OF 1812 (Part 2)

Host: Matt Koplik | Guest: Natalie Walker
Date: December 11, 2025

Episode Overview

In the second part of their deep dive, Matt Koplik and returning guest Natalie Walker continue their passionate, hilarious, and profane exploration of Natasha, Pierre & The Great Comet of 1812 ("Comet"). They move from discussing personal relationships to production details, performance critiques, design triumphs, casting legacy, internet drama, and the show's ongoing influence on Broadway and beyond.

Key Discussion Points & Insights

Revisiting the Show on Broadway

Personal viewing history: Natalie talks through her journey seeing "Comet" in various iterations—at the Casino, ART in Boston, and four times on Broadway.
- [02:37] "I had seen it at Casino so much. And I already knew that I was obsessed with it...then I got to visit them [Heath Saunders] and see it in Boston and then saw it, I think it ended up being four times on Broadway, all told." (Natalie Walker)
Set and Design Genius: Both marvel at the translation of an immersive, environmental show to Broadway’s proscenium stage.
- [04:31] "The curvatures of all the platforms and the runways...making sure that no one ever was facing one way all the time." (Matt)
- The set is described as “cluttered and elegant at the same time ...like if the richest person you knew with the best taste was a hoarder.” (Matt, 05:09)
- Paloma Young’s costumes are lauded for feeling both period and modern, and the homey-yet-opulent aesthetic comes up repeatedly.

Character Analysis & Favorite Moments

Helene’s ‘Charming’ as a Manipulation Anthem:
- [07:52] Matt calls "Charming" “probably the best manipulation song a woman has had in musical theater since Poor Unfortunate Souls.”
- They dissect how Helene weaponizes societal expectations of women for Natasha’s ‘benefit,’ masking manipulation as sisterly advice.
- Amber Gray’s performance is repeatedly praised for its seductive power.
Sonic Storytelling & Score Craft:
- Dave Malloy’s genius in blending musical genres to signify character and relationship—Anatole’s “electro pop” infiltrating Natasha’s sound, for example.
  - [09:31] "Caroline, or Change...was so many different genres meshing together. And I don't feel like I heard that again until Great Comet." (Matt)
- Comparisons to other genre-blending scores like "Dirty Rotten Scoundrels" surface, noting how character-centric music choices drive story.

Staging and the Loss of Intimacy on Broadway

The move to a larger theater created a loss of intimacy, especially for the character of Natasha:
- [21:24] "Acting wise in the tents...you were so close to her...And then moving into that larger space and doing...it still was much more proscenium...loss of intimacy really made that role suffer the most." (Natalie)
- Matt and Natalie theorize this impacted both Denée Benton’s Broadway Natasha and speculate Philippa Soo may have encountered similar challenges.

“Pierre & Natasha” — The Climactic Scene

The emotional centerpiece of the show—the scene where Pierre finally vocalizes his love for Natasha—is discussed in detail.
- [41:11] Natalie recites:
  
  "If I were not myself, but the brightest, handsomest, best man on earth, and if I were free, I would get down on my knees this minute and ask you for your hand and for your love."
- They reflect on how the score’s music falls away to pure dialogue for devastating emotional impact.
- Matt: [40:29] "The fact that the music gets taken away is the most chemical way for an audience to understand. Oh, we are raw now. There's no ornamentation."

Reflections on Compassion, Mistakes, and Humanity

The hosts draw connections between their theatrical passions and personal lives, emphasizing the transformative power of showing up for each other—especially after mistakes have been made.
- [53:51] Natalie: “You can be surprised by someone you've known for decades...at any moment, they could say something that changes your life, changes your relationship...and it's always possible.”

The Downfall and Legacy of Great Comet

Tony Nominations and the Mandy Patinkin Fallout:
- The show led the Tonys with 12 nominations but famously became entrenched in controversy after the casting upheaval when Josh Groban departed, Oak’s box office draw fell short, and Mandy Patinkin was brought in (and quickly exited) amidst social media uproar.
  - [73:26] "The conversation became the situation should never have been this precarious that if Mandy pulled out, they were going to close." (Matt)
- The precariousness of commercial theater producing and the problematic nature of outrage cycles on social media are picked apart:
  - [83:56] "There are plenty of things to take umbrage with and go, hey, not cool. A lot of them are not things to go to the mat for, especially because what it then dilutes when it is time to go to the mat."
Influence on Broadway’s Future:
- The hosts credit Comet’s legacy for paving the way for more experimental musicals, director Rachel Chavkin’s rise, and the careers of Philippa Soo, Amber Gray, Shaina Taub, and more.
  - "[90:28] ...exploded the possibilities of what shows can sound like...giving opportunities to people that are brilliant, that might otherwise not have gotten the opportunity to show their brilliance in a commercial theater sphere." (Natalie)
- Malloy’s Octet is cited as a spiritual successor, exploring connection among the cacophony of modern discourse.

Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments

On Design:
- [05:09] Matt: "Like if the richest person you knew with the best taste was a hoarder. That is how I would describe the set design of Great Comet."
On Manipulation in "Charming":
- [08:09] Natalie (imagining Amber Gray as Helene): "Mommy. Sorry, Mommy. Sorry, Mommy. I look good in the dress? You think I look good in the dress?"
On Breaking the Mold:
- [09:31] Matt: "Caroline, or Change...was so many different genres meshing together. And I don't feel like I heard that again until Great Comet."
On Naming the Divide:
- [23:51] Matt: "A great divide for the Great Comet of people who got it and people who didn't. ... I wish you had seen it in the tent."
On Facing Vulnerability:
- [41:11] Natalie (quoting Pierre): "If I were not myself, but the brightest, handsomest, best man on earth, and if I were free, I would get down on my knees this minute and ask you for your hand and for your love."
- [53:51] Natalie: "You can be surprised by someone you've known for decades, at any moment, at any moment, they could say something that changes your life, changes your relationship to them, to yourself...it's always possible if you leave your house."
On Difficulty of Social Media Outrage:
- [84:55] Matt (on Great Comet’s closure): "Ignorance may be bliss, but ignorance also makes me see exactly what your asshole looks like. And I'm not always in the mood to look at that."
On The Importance of Connection:
- [86:40] Natalie (about Octet): "What I find so moving about Octet is so much of it is about the evils of social media, of online culture. But...you get this beautiful little jewel of a moment where ... [someone] has this gorgeous little song about, like, finding connection."

Important Segments & Timestamps

Opening banter, show context: [00:40]–[04:30]
Favorite set and design elements: [04:31]–[06:14]
Gender-flipped fantasy casting and "Charming" analysis: [07:24]–[12:38]
Staging moments & manipulation breakdown: [13:49]–[15:55]
Score analysis & musical motif discussion: [09:31]–[11:58]
Loss of intimacy in Broadway transfer: [19:17]–[23:51]
Dream castings, Donmar Warehouse, international lens: [25:08]–[29:04]
Climactic Pierre/Natasha scene and vulnerability in theater: [38:12]–[56:09]
Reflections on relationship, trust, being seen at your worst: [56:09]–[59:59]
Legacy, producing, and Comet's Tony season: [72:06]–[77:09]
Internet outrage, self-awareness, and the Octet connection: [80:44]–[87:37]
Final thoughts on legacy and design influence: [89:53]–[93:38]
Outro diva and comedic banter: [96:13]–[97:01]

Podcast Tone & Style

Matt and Natalie maintain a warm, breathlessly geeky, and often profane camaraderie—mixing genuine insight with wild jokes, musical-theater references, and sharp industry commentary. Their love for Comet and for boundary-breaking theater is infectious and leaves listeners with both new perspectives and a craving to revisit the show (or its slime tutorials).

Closing

The deep dive closes with Natalie’s wish for Audra McDonald’s “Mistress of the Senator” as the outro—sealing an episode committed to diva worship, deep dramaturgical appreciation, and the messy passion that makes Broadway, Broadway.

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Deep Dive: NATASHA, PIERRE & THE GREAT COMET OF 1812 (Part 2) w/ Natalie Walker