Broadway Breakdown – “Disruptive Broadway Chaos” with PJ Adzima

Podcast Host: Matt Koplik
Guest: PJ Adzima (Book of Mormon actor, social media figure)
Release Date: May 18, 2023

Overview

In this energetic and deeply opinionated episode, Matt Koplik welcomes Broadway performer and social media activist PJ Adzima to dig into the tumultuous climate surrounding the Tony Awards, the broader state of American theatre, criticism culture, and the evolving dynamics of Broadway in the face of disruption (notably the Writers Guild strike). True to the podcast’s tone, this conversation is richly layered with both foul-mouthed humor and passionate, nuanced analysis of why Broadway matters, why it’s floundering, and what should change. With the Tony Awards in chaos, Matt and PJ use the moment to examine both the entrenched dysfunction and inspiring resilience of the theatre world.

Key Discussion Points and Insights

1. The Role of Criticism and Honesty in Broadway (00:31–06:57)

• Matt and PJ open with praise for each other’s work, notably Matt’s unfiltered, deeply personal brand of theatre criticism.
• The risk of “positivity-only” vibes: Both decry the prevailing culture of toxic positivity and how it fosters mediocrity.
  • Matt: “The people were like, ‘Only positivity. Positivity only vibes here.’ I’m like, that’s toxic. And no one grows from that.” (03:39)
• Calling for accountable art: They advocate for honesty and constructive feedback over relentless affirmation.
• Notable Quote:
  • PJ (02:48): “It fosters mediocrity. We’re not gonna talk about how we really feel, and instead, we end up with bland art. And I don’t think that’s helpful to anybody.”

2. Making Bold Choices on Stage: "Strong and Wrong" (06:14–07:22)

• Celebrating risk, even in notorious flops (like ‘Diana’): They distinguish between art that’s bland and work that swings big, even if it fails.
  • Matt (06:14): “Again, if you’re gonna be on stage, make a fucking choice.”
• Inoffensive = Invisible: When artists play it safe, they disappear.
  • PJ (06:23): “I would rather you be an asshole… who moves through the world and has an opinion. …It’s when you’re trying to not offend anybody and when you’re putting me to sleep, that’s the one thing you can’t do – bore me.”
• Iconic social media’s role: The pair riff on how going viral changes the way artists are seen and discussed.

3. Social Media, Activism, and Relating to an Audience (08:18–09:28)

• PJ’s activism emerges from a desire for connection, not soap-boxing: He rarely talks Broadway; most of his work is rooted in American social/ political issues.
  • PJ (08:45): “When I do, it makes me feel less alone and crazy. …It’s facilitated a conversation.”

4. Chaos at the Tony Awards: The WGA Strike’s Impact (10:14–14:21)

• The state of the 2023 Tony Awards: Constant uncertainty as the Writers Guild disallows waivers, halting the typical ceremony machinery.
  • Matt (10:48): “Up until last week, it looked like there might not be a Tony Awards.”
• Connecting TV/Film and Broadway labor issues: Both discuss how the writers’ strike, centered on streaming and AI upheavals, echoes broader challenges in theatre.
  • Matt (16:16): “We’re looking into the future, into the abyss and going, ‘Oh, we’re unprotected.’”
• Why sacrifices matter: Both reluctantly agree disruption is essential for progress, even if Broadway is collateral damage.
  • Matt (12:20): “It shows greater strength to be flexible than to be stubborn.”

5. Broadway’s Systemic Problems: Access, Innovation, and Survival (21:29–27:38)

• Broadway’s resistance to change: A lament for the lack of innovation and leadership with the will (or vision) to adapt.
  • PJ (21:33): “Innovate. We don’t do that. Not in this town.”
• Economic pressures & ticket pricing: The myth of unsustainable running costs (e.g., “it does not cost $3 million a week to run Hamilton”) and the need for smarter audience building.
  • Matt (27:00): “If we’re talking about how Broadway can be so inaccessible because of its pricing, the fuck are we doing here?”
  • PJ (27:47): “Just because we’ve painted ourselves in a corner by making these tickets so prohibitively expensive.”
• Getting “butts in seats” through outreach, accessibility, and word of mouth; calling out passive producers.

6. The Fragility of Broadway and the Importance of the Tonys (29:48–32:43)

• The Tony Awards as a lifeline: For many shows, especially in a post-pandemic world, the Tonys are crucial to financial survival and cultural exposure.
  • PJ (22:00): “The Tony Awards are essential because it Gets the shows in front of middle America… these are the very few opportunities we have to get a production number in front of a camera so people can get excited about the show.”
• But the dependence on the Tonys signals fragility: The industry’s reliance on a single event is itself a red flag.

7. The 2023 Tony Awards: Scriptless, Uncertain, and Potentially Revolutionary (34:09–37:04)

• What happens if there are no writers? Without a written script, the show might be a “total shit show” but could inspire new ways of presenting Broadway.
• The need for new leadership: A generational transition is overdue, both in creative and business spheres, and the lack thereof ties back to issues in the WGA strike.

8. Generational Gaps and the Egosystem of Broadway (38:06–40:01)

• The stalling of mentorship and pipeline building: Current leadership doesn’t foster or elevate younger voices, stunting both creative and institutional innovation.
  • PJ (39:06): “It’s a team sport… this is one ecosystem. …We can’t do it alone in an ego-system.”
  • Matt (39:20): “Our current generation of leadership is not making room for those younger generations to come in and start learning…”

9. Art, Accessibility, and Making Theatre for the Audience (42:19–46:56)

• Who is Broadway for? Shows must honor both creator and audience needs.
  • PJ (42:25): “It needs to be for the people in the audience.”
• Celebrating off-Broadway success (Titanique): A rare example of nailing clever content, market fit, and audience engagement.

10. Best Idea Wins: Collaboration vs. Condescension (50:34–54:25)

• Collaborative creation is key: The Office Ladies podcast is cited as a template for “the best idea wins” culture.
  • PJ (51:27): “Your idea makes me better. …We’ll have this thing that neither of us could do without each other.”
• Holier-than-thou artists are lonely artists: Take the work seriously, not yourself.
  • Matt (49:03): “Take the work seriously, not yourself.”

11. The Unique Power of Theatre (52:00–54:25)

• Live theatre is an unrepeatable experience – and audiences short-change themselves (and artists) when they multitask or disrespect the space.

12. The Tonys: Make It for the Nerds, Not the Masses (53:53–55:38)

• Stop pandering to TikTok and mainstream TV: The Tony Awards do best when they lean into what makes Broadway unique—even if that means a night full of in-jokes.
  • Matt (53:53): “Make the Tonys for the nerds, yo.”
• Showcase all the disciplines (design, writing, process); production numbers give true value.

13. Art That Challenges: Avoid Echo Chambers (62:28–67:15)

• Great theatre should discomfort and debate: Matt and PJ critique didactic or “echo chamber” shows and advocate for complexity and nuance, referencing controversial revivals like 1776.

14. The Cult of Repeat Viewing & Broadway Fandom (71:28–74:38)

• Why do some fans only see one show over and over? Both appreciate fandom but advocate for broader exploration and education, using long-runners like Phantom and Mormon as case studies.

15. Canon, Context, and Why Carousel Still Matters (76:08–84:01)

• Matt passionately defends Carousel, illuminating its psychological relevance and the dangers of surface-level “problematic” readings.
  • Matt (82:10): “He gives his daughter from beyond the grave the ability to let go of some of the pain she’s inherited from him... And that is what gets him into heaven...”
• Context matters; online outrage often misses the point.
  • Matt (83:06): “People don’t have the conversation; they go to Instagram and they go, ‘Wanna hear a problematic line?’ …You’re not taking context into account.”

16. Building a New Broadway—For Audiences, By Artists (90:05–92:45)

• What should the Tonys be? Less about glitz and scripted bits; focus on actual performances and behind-the-scenes storytelling.
  • PJ (90:18): “I care more about a night that showcases the variety of what we have to offer in New York City.”
  • Matt (91:13): “Burn the institution of it down to the ground and have it rise anew.”
• The future: access, authenticity, and experimentation. Tough times are opportunities for reinvention.

Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments

• On the “positivity-only” era:
  • Matt (03:39): “The people were like, only positivity. Positivity only vibes here. I’m like, that’s toxic. And no one grows from that.”
• On Broadway’s hostility to innovation:
  • PJ (21:33): “Innovate. We don’t do that. Not in this town.”
• On honest criticism and artistic growth:
  • PJ (27:47): “That is a brilliant thing that you just… Because we’ve painted ourselves in a corner by making these tickets so prohibitively expensive.”
• On embracing risk and “strong and wrong”:
  • Matt (06:14): “Diana, I love. Cause it’s just two hours so start to finish of strong and wrong choices.”
• On “making it for the nerds”:
  • Matt (53:53): “Make the Tonys for the nerds, yo.”
• On the show-business "egosystem":
  • PJ (39:08): “In an egosystem… We do live and die by each other. I need you to succeed so that I may succeed.”
• On live captures and legacy:
  • Matt (106:24): “Thinking about how it affects the original run of your show is just thinking too small. Think about what it does for the legacy of your show overall.”
• On advice for artists:
  • Matt (118:24): “Get comfortable in your life, not in your art.”

Timestamps for Key Segments

• 00:31–06:57: Criticism, honesty, and “toxic positivity” in Broadway culture.
• 10:14–14:21: The Tony Awards, WGA strike, and ripple effects across entertainment.
• 21:29–27:38: Why Broadway can’t innovate, ticketing, and accessibility problems.
• 38:06–40:01: Generational divides and “egosystem” dysfunction.
• 53:53–55:38: “Make the Tonys for the nerds”—rethinking the ceremony for its true fans.
• 62:28–67:15: Art that challenges, avoids echo chambers, and the dangers of preaching to the choir.
• 71:28–74:38: Broadway fandom, repeat viewing culture, and the limits of obsession.
• 76:08–84:01: Carousel, context, and the dangers of meme-ifying complex works.
• 90:05–92:45: The future Tony Awards and broader Broadway: focus on process, performance, and authenticity.

Final Thoughts

Matt and PJ close with actionable suggestions and some hard-won wisdom:

• Give audiences real access—through affordable tickets, livestreams, behind-the-scenes content, and live captures.
• Let go of gatekeeping and focus on process and collaboration.
• Cultivate best-idea-wins spaces (across generations and disciplines).
• Don’t be afraid to blow up failing institutions—embrace chaos as a chance for renewal.
• Always, always take the work seriously, not yourself.

Closing (119:07):
PJ wraps with a plug for his social media (@pjadz) and Book of Mormon. Matt invites listeners to keep sharing reviews and picks Bernadette Peters as the closing “Broadway diva” cue.

“Get comfortable in your life, not your art.” – Matt Koplik (118:24)