Broadway Breakdown: "LEMPICKA, STEREOPHONIC & More...and Jack Viertel!!"
Host: Matt Koplik
Date: April 11, 2024
Episode Overview
Matt Koplik serves up another signature blend of brash Broadway criticism, deep-dives into new shows—including Merrily We Roll Along, Lempicka, Heart of Rock and Roll, and Stereophonic—and an extended, heartfelt interview with legendary theater-maker Jack Viertel. The episode balances sharp hot takes, thoughtful dramaturgical analysis, behind-the-scenes stories, and plenty of fandom by way of strong opinions, showbiz lore, and plenty of four-letter words.
Key Discussion Points & Insights
1. Season & Tony Awards Check-in
- Matt reminds listeners nominations drop April 30, with the awards in June ("sometime in June, I believe" [00:45]).
- He frames this as another solo episode, with the Jack Viertel interview in the second half.
2. MERRILY WE ROLL ALONG: Understudies & Ongoing Thoughts (01:25–08:20)
- Matt updates on the rotating cast:
- Sees Lindsay Mendez’s Mary for the first time after previously catching Jamila’s understudy performance:
- “I kind of prefer Jamila. But Lindsay does a very nice job…” ([03:51])
- Matt praises Mendez for “doing depression better than a lot of actresses right now in Broadway musicals, which is a weird compliment to give, but there you go.” ([04:30])
- Daniel Radcliffe was out, saw his understudy Cory Teron, who was “very nice” but “Daniel was probably more impactful.”
- Sees Lindsay Mendez’s Mary for the first time after previously catching Jamila’s understudy performance:
- Structural discussion:
- Credits James Lapine for rescuing the show after its 1981 flop (“doesn’t get the credit he deserves for helping Merrily’s journey…” [06:48]).
- Maintains, “I don’t think Merrily will ever really work. This show continues to prove that for me.” ([05:30])
- Looser Instagram review referenced for more details.
3. LEMPICKA: A "Strong and Wrong" Hot Take (08:20–40:45)
- Summary: A bio-musical about artist Tamara de Lempicka, starring Eden Espinosa.
- First Impressions:
- Matt, after seeing it, admits to immediately Googling Lempicka because the show “did not gain a lot of information about the main character… There was only what I sort of assumed going in, you know, from the marketing...” ([08:55])
- Plot Confusion:
- “The show is...so...how do I describe this? The writers are clearly into their main character…” ([09:44])
- Breakneck pacing; first 7 minutes cover enormous plot (“I’m watching this going, this could just be act one… we’re just flying through.” [12:36])
- Musical/Stylistic Critique:
- “The music also is just very odd...full on whiplash all the time. Every number is...from different visions.” ([14:10])
- Matt compares its lack of cohesion unfavorably to Caroline, or Change and Great Comet.
- Direction & Design:
- Rachel Chavkin’s approach is questioned: “This was the first time with her where I kind of questioned the taste level. The aesthetic of the show made no sense to me.” ([28:45])
- “It’s just a lot of spaghetti thrown at the wall and occasionally a noodle might stick, but it’s very scattered.” ([30:17])
- Performance Notes:
- Amber Iman: “sings fantastically...I would argue she's in a different show from Eden Espinosa and Andrew Szymanski.”
- Beth Leavel: “while wildly underused, does make the most of her stage time. She can land a one-liner like nobody’s business.”
- Eden Espinosa: “cannot claim she’s not giving it a thousand percent...her motivations, her wants, they’re all flipping on a dime… On a vocal level… she’s under on a lot of the notes. She’s flat on a lot of the notes.” ([35:15])
- Notable Moment: “Eden Espinoza runs off stage in her wedding dress holding the baby, which is an image I will never forget…” ([11:08])
- Quote:
- “To be perfectly honest, I kind of found the show to be a bit of a disaster.” ([39:53])
- Gives credit for ambition and melody but faults lack of vision, plot bloat, inconsistent style.
4. HEART OF ROCK AND ROLL: Silly, Campy Jukebox Fun (41:16–49:38)
- Overview: Huey Lewis and the News jukebox musical, “under the radar for a lot of people…”
- Plot Primer:
- Corey Cott plays a former musician now working for a packaging company; hijinks ensue at a Chicago convention, reuniting with the old band and a love interest.
- Tonal Analysis:
- “Aiming to be fun and dumb. And the only way you can get away with that is if the show is right and tight.” ([42:45])
- “If you’re gonna be dumb, be smart about how dumb you are. If you want me to turn off my brain, you got to do all the work.” ([43:00])
- Direction & Choreography:
- Choreo by Lorin Latarro: “her choreography, like in Tommy, is way too much…very big, big, big, kick in the face, high energy… Rather than stay in line with the environment that the show is trying to live in.” ([46:24])
- Bubble wrap tap dance number: Fun conceit, but “execution is flawed because… it's just not a clean sound. So it doesn't execute as well as you want it to.” ([47:05])
- Structural notes:
- Suggests tightening pacing and focusing on story over Huey Lewis song-quantity.
- Wishes the show were “100 minutes and at New World Stages… Once you get into a Broadway theater, the expectation from an audience changes.”
- Quote:
- “I enjoyed Heart of Rock and Roll. So what have you?” ([49:38])
5. STEREOPHONIC: Best Play of the Year? (49:38–66:24)
- Summary:
- Three-plus-hour play following a fictional band recording their album in the 1970s. “Loosely inspired by Fleetwood Mac—but in the same way that Dreamgirls isn’t actually about the Supremes, but it’s kind of about the Supremes.” ([50:33])
- Praise for Realism & Ensemble:
- “This is some brilliant ensemble work. Everyone's got beautiful chemistry. Everyone has a fully realized character, even if they don't have a lot of stage time or a lot to say.” ([52:57])
- Cast Highlights:
- Will Brill, Juliana Canfield, Sarah Pidgeon, Eli Gelb, and more.
- Authenticity:
- Actors play instruments and sing live; deep dramaturgical detail about recording studios, band dynamics, tension.
- Long but Compelling:
- “Yes, it is long... but, my God, is it compelling?” ([51:44])
- “It feels like you’re a fly on the wall for this recording… There's a lot of tension in the show. There's a lot of drama.” ([56:44])
- “Plays have been mopping the fucking floor with all the musicals this year.” ([50:25])
- Design Praise:
- “The sound design for this thing is fucking stellar. The lighting design is really beautiful. The set… is so smartly utilized.”
- Tony Prospects:
- Sings its awards prospects: “Best play nomination done. Direction done... If they don't get at least three acting nominations… I would be thrilled.” ([64:10])
6. Listener Review Segment (66:24–69:55)
- Matt reads a new 3-star Apple Podcast review criticizing his “mouth throat sounds...audible swallowing… tongue click snaps…”
- Owns up to dry mouth, excessive "um"s, past eating/mouth noises, and thanks the reviewer, promising to improve:
- “Hopefully in the future I will have fewer coughs, fewer throat clears, and fewer tongue clicks.”
Extended Interview: Jack Viertel (70:00–129:54)
Theatre legend—critic, dramaturg, artistic director, producer, and novelist—Jack Viertel discusses his new book and a lifetime on Broadway.
A. Jack Viertel & Broadway Melody
- Overview of the Novel:
- “Three characters...a kind of triangulated romance that goes on for decades… people of Broadway: a woman actor, a trumpet player, and a spotlight operator…” ([71:41])
- Follows their journeys from the 1960s through 2016, intertwined with real Broadway/Times Square history.
- “Allowed me to write about not only them, but how they interact with the various phases of Times Squares…to put my characters through it all as well.” ([73:34])
- Integration of Fact & Fiction:
- Characters woven into real theatre events “in the same way that, you know, El Doctro in Ragtime incorporates his characters into history.”
- Winter Garden Theatre looms large as a character.
B. Process & Sources
- Characters inspired by real figures:
- Ike Harris, “based only very, very slightly” on Red Press, a legendary reed player.
- Ingenue in Encores’ Phantom whose love story with a spotlight operator directly inspired plot threads.
- “That was kind of the impulse...to write about...who really puts on Broadway shows every night?...people you never see...” ([75:33])
- Writing method:
- “I never had a real outline. I had an ending... but it was sort of like a maze in a way…” ([77:44])
- Found the unpredictability both “disconcerting” and “the most fun.”
- Classic Broadway out-of-town tales appear in Broadway Melody heavily inspired by real events (esp. Grand Hotel out of town).
C. Experiences at Encores!
- Matt confesses to giving suggestions as a precocious 13-year-old via his grandmother, credits him with The Apple Tree:
- “That is what I’ve told everyone for years now. But I know it’s not true because number three...was Smile. And Smile still hasn’t been done...”
- How Shows Are Picked:
- “It was a delightful and entirely unscientific process...what show do you really want to see?” ([83:06])
- Groovy, contrastful seasons, practical concerns: orchestrations/scripts must be available.
- Sometimes star-driven: “If Patti LuPone wants to do Can-Can, we should do Can-Can. If she doesn’t, we shouldn’t do Can-Can.” ([86:23])
- Surprises:
- Occasionally a show works better or worse than expected; recounts the delayed Superman due to 9/11 connections.
D. Producing & Dramaturgy
- On new shows and scripts:
- Looks for “really strong leading character...does the story actually capture my imagination all the way through to the end?...size of the ideas.” ([90:55])
- Sometimes “bones just aren’t there” for a show to work, regardless of fixes (“something that just does not want to happen”). ([98:46])
- Notes on Workshop/Development Culture:
- “Most plays that we did and musicals that we did were developed from a stage beyond the original script being written…”
E. Broadway Process Anecdotes
- Tells the full Grand Hotel/Boston meltdown and turnaround story, how systematized “three things a day” approach (inspired by Robbins) methodically whipped the show into shape ([95:41–98:15]).
- Sometimes creative teams resist changing things (“I like it my way” [99:50]), sometimes creative stubbornness is right.
F. Teaching & Traditions
- Advice to writers:
- “There is a technique for getting to an audience, grabbing an audience, holding an audience, responding to the biorhythms of an audience by changing tempos…” ([113:26])
- Learn conventions, then break them knowingly.
- Opening numbers:
- “Tradition” (Fiddler), “Wilkommen” (Cabaret), and “Comedy Tonight” (Forum) cited as perfect introductions (“bring you into the world of the show…” [121:27])
- Contrasts with “Does Anyone Have a Map?” (Dear Evan Hansen) as a functional, not classic, example.
- On unconventional shows:
- “1776 comes close...Sunday in the Park with George...With that case, you’re dealing with a composer/lyricist who’s had so much experience that he’s able to go wherever he wants to go and still understand what...needs to be done.” ([115:55])
- Personal Broadway history woven throughout—his family, the Winter Garden Theatre, collecting set pieces, earliest theatregoing experiences.
Notable Quotes & Moments
- Matt on Lempicka:
- “It’s so unsure of what it wants to say about her, what it wants to be about her and what it just wants to be as a show, what kind of style it wants to be.” ([39:53])
- Jack Viertel on what makes Broadway tick:
- “There is a technique for getting to an audience, grabbing...holding an audience, responding to the biorhythms of an audience by changing tempos...You can ignore every single one of them, but it’s better if you ignore them after you learn them…” ([113:26])
- Matt on the Tony race:
- “Guys, this has been the season of plays. The plays have been mopping the fucking floor with all the musicals this year.” ([50:25])
- Jack on dramaturgy:
- “You have to try to help artists realize their own vision. You can’t substitute your vision for them.” ([103:07])
Timestamps for Key Segments
- 00:45 – Matt: “We are still covering the Tonys and the current Broadway season as we lead up to nominations…”
- 01:25 – MERRILY WE ROLL ALONG review
- 08:20 – LEMPICKA in-depth review
- 41:20 – HEART OF ROCK AND ROLL discussion
- 49:38 – STEREOPHONIC review
- 66:24 – Listener review/misophonia segment
- 70:00 – Jack Viertel interview begins
- 71:41 – Viertel describes Broadway Melody
- 73:34 – Incorporating history/family connection
- 83:02 – How shows are picked for Encores!
- 95:41 – GRAND HOTEL out-of-town drama
- 113:26 – Viertel’s writing/teaching advice on structure
- 129:54 – Episode wrap-up
Tone & Language
- Matt’s style: passionate, opinionated, foul-mouthed, irreverent but deeply informed by history and craft.
- Jack’s tone: generous, reflective, anecdotal, industry-savvy.
For Listeners Who Haven't Tuned In
This episode distills a season’s worth of Broadway insider drama—what’s working, what’s clumsy, what’s Great (and why)—along with a rare, illuminating sit-down with Jack Viertel, whose perspective connects generations of Broadway history, practical nuts-and-bolts dramaturgy, and big-hearted storytelling. Whether you want Tony tea, flop post-mortems, or a master class on how shows get built (and sometimes don’t), this is a meaty episode, brimming with fandom and the wisdom of decades.