LIVE: BroadwayCon 2025 (w/ Grey Henson)

Summary

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Broadway Breakdown LIVE: BroadwayCon 2025

Host: Matt Koplik
Guest: Grey Henson
Date: February 13, 2025

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Episode Overview

In this charged, hilarious, and affectionate live episode of Broadway Breakdown—recorded at BroadwayCon 2025—host Matt Koplik and Tony nominee Grey Henson dive deep into the phenomenon that is Les Misérables. What begins as an audience-vote segment turns into an exuberant, freewheeling discussion of the show’s plot, its labyrinthine history, legendary performances (and mishaps!), the quirks of its various recordings, and personal connections to the musical.

The episode blends deep theatre nerdery, wild tangents, and biting wit, lovingly unpacking why—after almost four decades—Les Mis endures on the Broadway Mount Rushmore. Expect juicy stories, plenty of laughter, and a bevy of four-letter words.

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Key Discussion Points and Insights

1. Kicking Things Off: Audience Vote & Les Mis Intro

[00:04‒04:33]

• The live audience chooses Les Mis as the discussion topic over Mean Girls, Sweeney Todd, and Oklahoma.
• Matt pokes fun at the musical’s “insanely complicated” plot:

  "A plot so simple that they had to put it in the playbill of the original Broadway production so audiences could follow along." — Matt [02:03]

• Grey provides a broad (and comedic) plot synopsis, with Matt’s help, highlighting the relentless misfortunes of Jean Valjean and others.

2. Personal Histories with Les Mis

[06:07‒18:32]

• Grey first encountered the show as a middle schooler in Georgia, gleefully recounting playing "a sailor in Lovely Ladies" and then graduating to Marius in high school.
• Matt reveals he appeared on MTI’s official High School Edition reference recording as a kid:

  “If you listen to the reference recording… you’ll hear a little 12-year-old me go, ‘You broke the law, it's there for people to see.’” — Matt [15:35]

• Both hosts share nostalgia and embarrassment over earnest high school productions:

  "Someone’s mom burned us a CD of our performance because we thought it was so amazing, which it was really not." — Grey [18:20]

3. Princess Tracks, Iconic Roles & Doubling

[06:40‒08:48]

• Matt explains the concept of a “princess track” i.e., Fantine:

  “She comes on 20 minutes in, sings the most famous song, dies, does not come back for three hours... You can watch six episodes of Grey’s Anatomy between dying and coming back as a ghost.” — Matt [06:41]

• Hilarious Patti LuPone and Andrea McArdle stories highlight Broadway lore, including the infamous Skittles mishap:

  “When she died, all the skittles fell out and slowly just, like, bounced their way into the pit... and it was like silence.” — Grey [08:31]

4. History & Noteworthy Performances

[09:44‒14:36]

• Discussion of Eponine’s iconic look and the "baggy coat" aesthetic.
• Matt waxes rhapsodic about Judy Kuhn (“Kunzy”) and the miracle of her Tony nomination for Cosette:

  “Do you know how good you have to be to take that bale of hay of a role and turn it into Tony-nominated gold?” — Matt [11:10]

• Matt tells his “meeting Judy Kuhn” horror story, which ends sweetly:

  “And Kunzie, to her credit, just goes, ‘Do you want a hug?’” — Matt [14:36]

5. Les Mis Editions & High School Productions

[14:41‒18:32]

• MTI’s High School Edition gets an affectionate roast. Matt recalls performing at the show's 2003 Broadway closing with future stars like Cristin Milioti.

6. Approaching Marius, The Most Muddled Role?

[18:32‒20:20]

• Grey on playing Marius:

  "That was, me in high school was just like, youthful and kind and just wide-eyed... I think it was the first time I was like, ‘Oh, I think I can do this professionally.’" — Grey [18:38]

• Matt and Grey debate whether Marius’ journey is an “arc” or if he’s simply “someone to whom things happen.”
• Hilarious mutual shade at Marius:

  “The wet blanket decides to get off the towel rack.” — Matt [33:55]

7. Musical Motifs, Plot Holes & Thematic Content

[20:21‒24:46]

• Matt dissects recurring motifs—even poking fun at their overuse:

  “Some would… call it recycling melodies; I think of it as a motif.” — Matt [20:52]

• The hosts joke about the character relationships and plot holes, especially the presence of Eponine’s ghost at Valjean’s death:

  “Why is Eponine there when Valjean dies? She met him for a second. I’m like, well, themes!" — Matt [22:12]

• They call out the show’s sprawling disorder:

  "Don’t come at Les Mis with a fine tooth comb. That plot does fall apart in the stage show if you analyze it too much." — Matt [27:58]

8. Favorite & Least Favorite Songs: Ruthless Honesty

[28:17‒31:48]

• Both struggle with “Castle on a Cloud”:

  “Unfortunately, my gut is telling me… Castle on a Cloud… if there’s one to cut, that, to me, is the most depressing song.” — Grey [29:06]

• Matt throws out “Turning” as unnecessary:

  “That’s, I think, the only song that repeats the Lovely Ladies medley motif. Again, I couldn’t necessarily tell you why other than it’s two situations where there are women on stage.” — Matt [31:48]

9. The Movie Adaptation: Warm Praise and Scathing Critique

[31:57‒37:29]

• Matt laments the addition of spoken dialogue in the film adaptation:

  “Here’s what I don’t like about adding dialogue to Les Mis… when you set a world where we’re singing text… and then… someone literally says, 'Hey, how are you?' Like, why are we not singing anymore?... It’s whiplash.” — Matt [32:17]

• Mixed feelings about the “singing live” approach in the film, with specific shoutouts (and side-eyes) to Anne Hathaway and Hugh Jackman:

  “Tom Hooper, the director, said, you know what I hate about musicals? When they sound good.” — Matt [34:52] “But, like, that was when I was like, that's how you know there was not a single homosexual in that room that day.” — Matt [36:13]

• Grey defends the rawness of the film:

  “Perfect, pretty singing is often boring… The story of Les Mis is a story of humanity in many ways… so I think in that way, I think the singing live was really exciting.” — Grey [37:11]

10. Rankings, Icons, and Recordings

[39:07‒46:44]

• Hands-up polls for favorite Les Mis recordings: 10th Anniversary Dreamcast, London OBC, Broadway OBC, and even the “Nick Jonas” cast.
• Heated debate on the best Valjean, Fantine, and Eponine. Is it Colm Wilkinson? Lea Salonga? Ruthie Henshall? Patti LuPone? Every fan gets their moment.
• Matt’s surgical breakdown of specific vocal moments—especially Colm Wilkinson’s “Took my flight... Like all of a sudden, Elphaba was in the room…” [41:46].

11. Legacy, 90s Mega-Musicals, and Revivals

[46:44‒49:07]

• Grey identifies Les Mis as the “quintessential Broadway show”:

  “To me, Les Mis is Broadway. Like, that’s what I think of when I think of a Broadway show.” — Grey [46:34]

• Matt connects Les Mis’ vocal style to 90s mega-musicals (Ragtime, Titanic, Side Show), noting how the “big singing” sometimes lost touch with corresponding stakes.
• Discussion about whether Les Mis is due for another revival. Both want a return of the turntable staging, rather than digital projections.

12. Epic Fails: Backstage Mishaps & Iconic Flubs

[49:11‒52:31]

• Multiple tales of legends missing entrances, including Patti LuPone reading a magazine and missing her own ghostly entrance, and Colm Wilkinson nearly leaving Randy Graff stranded onstage.
• Grey’s vivid reenactment of Fantine crawling desperately across the stage for Valjean’s entrance, to major audience laughter.

13. Rapidfire: Ratings, Top Shows, and What Les Mis Means

[52:47‒56:00]

• Grey gives Les Mis a “9 or 9.5” out of 10 [52:59].
• Both hosts admit it’s in their top five and explain that the show flies by because it’s “sung through,” which they adore.
• Matt offers a parting shot:

  “I think the real tragedy is thinking that you’re an Eponine, and then you’re actually factory girl number three in life.” — Matt [54:13]

• The show closes on a personal story about bonding over Les Mis with coworkers—underscoring the musical’s power to unite “straight boys and gays alike.”

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Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments

• On Fantine’s Role:
  "You can watch six episodes of Grey’s Anatomy in between dying and coming back a ghost. It’s amazing."
  — Matt Koplik [06:41]

• On Judy Kuhn’s Versatility:
  "Some people can sing Florence in Chess. Those people can’t always sing Cosette in Les Mis… Judy Kuhn can do both."
  — Matt Koplik [12:25]

• On High School Productions:
  “Someone’s mom burned us a CD of our performance because we thought it was so amazing, which it was really not.”
  — Grey Henson [18:20]

• Matt’s One-Liner on Plot Complexity:
  “Don’t come at Les Mis with a fine tooth comb. That plot does fall apart in the stage show if you analyze it too much.”
  — Matt Koplik [27:58]

• On the Movie’s “Live” Approach:
  “Tom Hooper, the director, said, you know what I hate about musicals? When they sound good.”
  — Matt Koplik [34:52]

• Ranking the Leads:
  “Of all of the Valjeans, who’s your go to?”
  — Matt Koplik [40:28]
  “Oh, the OG. I mean, Colm.”
  — Grey Henson [40:28]

• On Revival Staging:
  “I would want a turntable again, though."
  — Matt Koplik [48:59]

• On Les Mis’ Enduring Power:
  "To me, Les Mis is Broadway. Like, that's what I think of when I think of a Broadway show."
  — Grey Henson [46:34]

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Timestamps for Major Segments

| Segment | Time | |-----------------------------|------------| | Audience Vote & Intro | 00:00–04:33| | Les Mis Plot & Princess Tracks | 04:33–09:44| | Iconic Broadway Stories | 09:44–14:36| | MTI High School Edition | 14:36–18:32| | Playing Marius | 18:32–20:20| | Motifs & Plot Chasms | 20:21–24:46| | Favorite/Least Favorite Songs | 28:17–31:48| | Les Mis Film Discussion | 31:57–37:29| | Best Recordings & Performers| 39:07–46:44| | Mega-musicals & Revival Chat| 46:44–49:07| | Backstage Hijinks | 49:07–52:31| | Final Ratings & Reflections | 52:47–end |

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Final Thoughts

This episode is a love letter to Les Mis, its fans, and the glorious messiness of musical theatre obsessiveness. If you’ve ever belted “One Day More,” debated your favorite Valjean, or gone down a YouTube bootleg rabbit hole, this conversation is pure gold.

Find Grey Henson on Instagram: @greyhenson
Find Matt Koplik on Instagram: @mattkoplik

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Transcript

[A]

Okay. Are we okay? We're on. Okay.

[B]

Hello? We on? Yeah.

[A]

I mean, okay. Fantastic. Thank you for voting, everyone. Okay. Hello and welcome to a very special episode of Broadway breakdown, live from BroadwayCon 2025. Exclamation point. By being in our audience today, you are part of a live recording of the podcast. So feel free to laugh, applaud and react along with us. Make sure you're also following us at Broadway Podcast Network for the latest updates on what we're up to at @ BroadwayCon. Thank you, Alan. Now let's get started. Hello all you theater lovers both out and proud and on the DL. And welcome to Broadway Breakdown, a podcast discussing. That's right, a podcast discussing the history und legacy of American theater's most exclusive address. I am your host, Matt Koplik, the least famous and most opinionated of all the Broadway podcast hosts. With me today is a Tony nominee. You last saw him this holiday season in Elf. He's back to his alma mater, the Marriott Hotel. Hey, mate. Yeah.

[B]

Please.

[A]

Welco. Welcome to the pod. Gray Henson. Hi, Gray.

[B]

Hi.

[A]

Hi. Hi. So this is to clarify for Gray, who didn't understand what was happening. We are about to pick out one of your votes at random. We are not going to tally the votes that will keep us here for an hour. Right?

[B]

That's what I thought was happening.

[A]

Yes, but depending on how the votes go, it could skew either way based on how many people voted for what. So again, our options are Mean Girls, Les Mis, Sweeney Todd, Oklahoma. Gray, do you want to do the honors?

[B]

Yes.

[A]

Fantastic. Okay. It is Les Mis shot.

[B]

Yes.

[A]

Okay. Does it have to be an hour, Alan? Can it be five? It's a three hour musical. Okay? We all have a lot of stuff to talk about. First things first. Great for the uncultured noobs out there. Can you simmer down what Les Mis is about in a couple of thousand?

[B]

Oh, okay. The synopsis of Les Mis.

[A]

A plot so simple that they had to put it in the playbill of the original Broadway production so audiences could follow along.

[B]

Oh, did they really?

[A]

Oh, I have.

[B]

Incredible. That would be helpful, I think.

[A]

Oh, yeah. They're like, act one, scene one. This is what happens. Act two, scene two. Jean Valjean has a new name. It's that kind of stuff.

[B]

It is really confusing, isn't it?

[A]

Oh, yeah. Okay.

[B]

Yeah. I mean, it's about John Valjean, who. So I've done Les Mis twice, which we'll get into later.

[A]

Fantastic.

[B]

But I haven't really thought about it since middle school, but. So no that's not true. I saw the movie, which came out after middle school for me, I think. Right. When did the movie come out?

[A]

2012.

[B]

Okay. Yeah, yeah, yeah.

[A]

You weren't in middle school.

[B]

No, no. I graduated from college in 2012. Yes.

[A]

So, okay.

[B]

It's about Jean Valjean, who is a criminal.

[A]

He's a convict.

[B]

Convict.

[A]

Right.

[B]

Because he did what?

[A]

He stole carbs. Right.

[B]

He stole bread. But that's where the show starts. Right.

[A]

The show starts with him going out on parole after 19 years in prison for stealing a loaf of bread. Yes. Okay.

[B]

Could you give us the synopsis of Les Miss.

[A]

Twist My Arms? Jean Valjean gets released on parole. And he ends up being gifted two pieces of silver candlesticks from a very loving bishop and uses that silver to start a new life. Becomes a mayor and the owner of a factory where one of his workers gets fired because she has a secret child. Yes. Out of wedlock. That is Fantine. She dreamed a dream. And because she's fired, she has. And she has to provide for her kid, Cosette, who is being cared for by an innkeeper and his wife, who are totally on the up and up. And she has to send money to them because she thinks Cosette is sick. She doesn't know that it's a con that they're telling her. So she sells her hair, she sells her locket in the book, she sells her two front teeth. And then she goes into sex work. And it's not a positive sex work. It's the sad kind. And through that, she then gets, I think, tb. She gets sick with either TB or plot device, whatever you want to call it. They never say what it is. Storytelling is what she gets sick with. Valjean realizes that he made a mistake. He promises that he'll take care of Cosette. She dies this whole time, this absolute. So I like to curse. How. How offended are we by curse words? Fantastic. This dick Javert, the constable.

[B]

Constable.

[A]

Constable who's been chasing Valjean because he's like, you're a criminal. You'll always be a criminal. And I'm gonna find you like he's the Valjean lives rent free in Javert's head. And he's just like, he's the ex that got away. And so he's chasing him. He won't stop stalking him. Valjean goes, gets Cosette. She grows up to be an ingenue. She falls in love with a very pretty dum dum named Marius. Marius is part of a group of rich boys who are like we are allies. And so they go to, like, fight a revolution for the poor. It doesn't go great. Marius has a Taylor Swift type who's longing for him, named Eponine. She dies for him, and then everyone but Marius dies. Because Marius is special somehow. He and Cosette get married. Valjean tells Marius his true life story. Javert has a conundrum and decides to exit plan off of a bridge. The Thenardiers are funny. Valjean then tells Cosette, P.S. you're not my real daughter. Your mother died protecting you. Now I'm dying. Peace out. And then the ghosts come back, like in Titanic. And they say, when tomorrow comes. And that's Les Mis. Great. Thank you. Not since, I don't know, Lea Polstedt has there been such intricate storytelling. So I just did there. So, Gray, how did Les Mis enter your chat?

[B]

I first did Les Mis. I think I heard about it just growing up. But I did it in middle school for the first time. I played one of the sailors. At it. As in lovely.

[A]

In lovely ladies.

[B]

Lovely ladies, yeah. And I was like, you know, a student and whatnot. But my big feature was, even stokers need a little Stoke.

[A]

I mean, 12. I mean, that's the button. Listen, I also. Raise of hands. Who's ever been in a production of Les Miserables?

[B]

Yes.

[A]

Yes. Amazing. Were we principals? Were we ensemble? Oh, principal. Okay, what was our role? Oh, my God.

[B]

So good.

[A]

Fantine. Okay, does everyone know what the term princess track means? A princess track, for those of you who don't know, is you get such a spotlight on you. Not a lot of stage time. Think like King George and Hamilton. Right. Fontina is the ultimate princess track. She comes on 20 minutes into the show, sings the most famous song of the show, dies, does not come back for another three hours. You can watch six episodes of Grey's Anatomy in between dying and coming back. A ghost. It's amazing.

[B]

Wait, don't they normally have Fantine play a student in the.

[A]

So they had her play a bullet boy in the original Broadway production who.

[B]

Had the story of Andrea McCardell when she did it. Okay, you heard the story about the candy.

[A]

So we'll tell both. Okay, so we'll tell. So first we have to. Okay, raise of hands. Who saw the original production of Les Mis? Maybe not when it opened, but at some point. Fantastic. It's the Royal Shakespeare Company. They were very big on doubling roles. So if you saw it, like Marius and Enjolras, they were constables in the opening. And Cozette and Eponine are sex workers and lovely ladies and so on and so forth. Patti LuPone was the original Fantine in London. And as we all know, Patti LuPone, despite what she says, does not love ensemble tracks. So she always would conveniently have commitments when they were like, okay, now we're staging, you know, one day more. Now we're staging the ABC Cafe. And she's like, oops, I have a. I have a thing. And then one day she comes into rehearsal accidentally, and they're staging a band barricade scene, and they're like, oh, my God, Patty, so much for. Thank you so much for coming. You're a bullet boy, which is why in the original Broadway production, the only role that Fantine played was the bullet boy. So she would die, have all of Act 1 off stage, come back as the bullet boy for a scene, not have a line or anything, then go off and get to be Fantine again. Andrea McCardell played the role for a while on Broadway. Do you want to tell the candy story of Andrea McCardell? Right.

[B]

I mean, I don't know if it's a very, like, intricate story, but she would, you know, go on stage with, like, skittles in her pocket or something, I think. And I heard that one day she did a big dramatic. And when she died, all the skittles fell out and slowly just, like, bounced their way into the pit.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

And it was like, silence.

[A]

Right.

[B]

It's like when the.

[A]

It's. When that big revolve is happening, all the students are dying, and it's the orchestra playing Bring him Home so quietly. So you have do, do, do. And then just like a rainstorm happening in the barricade, because it's that giant thing, and it's echoey. It's all metal and whatnot.

[B]

Yeah. And it's also very sad and tragic. And then all of a sudden, all these Skittles are just raining down a.

[A]

Little fall of Ra. That's how, you know, everyone in this room has seen that show. So you played a sailor in one production?

[B]

Yes. Yeah, yeah. In Macon, Georgia, where I'm from, I did that. And then when I was in high school, a junior in high school, I played Marius.

[A]

That's versatility.

[B]

I know. Yeah. Marius, Right. Not Marius. I mean, does it matter?

[A]

It's like saying aunt or aunt. Like, aren't we both correct?

[B]

Marius. In Georgia, we said Marius.

[A]

I think, maybe incorrectly, I think of. Yeah. In the obc, they go, marius, you're no longer a child.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

So many good roles in that show, though, while you were talking about it, I forgot that, like, Eponine existed. And she's so fantastic. I was like, oh, right. And then there's Eponine and she loves him. You know, there's so many different twists and turns.

[A]

Eponine is, I think, the reason why I love really baggy coats. I love clothes that don't fit me. And it's because of the original Eponine costume. Because she's, you know, she's trying to be a little boy, not a little white, but like a teenage boy delivering a message to Valjean. And she's got that coat that just like droops over her. And I'm like, oh, so delicate.

[B]

An iconic look.

[A]

It's an iconic look.

[B]

Wait, was Lee's song of the original.

[A]

No, right?

[B]

No, it was.

[A]

Leah Salonga replaced on Broadway. This is why I'm here. Because I have an IBD be right in my head. She replaced after doing Miss Saige Gone on Broadway and then was in the 10th anniversary concert, aka the Dreamcast with Colin Wilkinson. The original, right. Ruthie Henschel as Fantine. My beloved. Judy Kuhn as Cosette. May I just say Judy Kuhn. Who knows who Judy Kuhn is? That is correct. This woman. So Cosette is a very perfectly fine role, but she's not like, I wouldn't say she's on a track that everyone's like, oh, my God, I simply must play Cosette. The meat on that, on those bones. It's, you know, she sings in my life. She sings Heart Full of Love and she's gone. Judy Kuhn in 1987, got nominated for a Tony Award for playing Cosette over Randy Graff who played Fantine. Do you know how good you have to be to take that bale of hay of a role and turn it into Tony nominated gold? That is why she has four Tony nominations. And then she got her role in Chess, actually. Chess. Realdo Chess, yes. May or may not be coming to Broadway next season, but yeah, Chess with hopefully a new book. But, you know, make peace and make room. Kunzy, we call those of us who don't know her call her Kunzee. She had done a musical the same season as Les Mis called Rags. You might be the only person in this room who saw Rags. Rags ran for four performances, had a whole plot line about the fire in the Triangle factory. And Kunzy was in it and booked Les Mis because Rags close assumed. But Rags ended up being a best musical nominee the same year as Les Mis. So she Goes on and she does One Day More with her little soprano, but then she goes on and she belts the title song from Rags. And Trevor Nunn's like, judy, you belt. Would you maybe want to audition for me for one of the greatest belting roles of the 1980s? And she was like, sure, why not? Got a second Tony nomination back to back, and just.

[B]

I didn't know all that. That's epic.

[A]

I mean, we're talking about Les Mis, but I'm talking about Judy Kim.

[B]

No, amazing, like, because Pocahontas. I mean, Pocahontas.

[A]

Okay, here's. Here's. This is why, if you are an aspiring singer, and this is why you should get to know Judy Kuhn. Some people can sing Florence and Chess. Those people can't always sing Cosette and Les Mis. Some people can do Amalia and She Loves Me. They can't always do Colors of the Wind from Pocahontas. Judy Kune can't do both. Yeah. Could have won a Tony for Sunset Boulevard if she didn't get pregnant. Oh, right. You guys don't know that story, so.

[B]

Yeah, you have so many stories.

[A]

So many stories. So Judy Kuhn was in the Los Angeles production of Sunset Boulevard, the famous one that got Patty fired. And she was Betty Schaeffer. Another Cozettish role where you're like, you're pretty. You sing pretty. But, like, I was gonna bring it to Norma and Judy was gonna bring it to Broadway, and then she got pregnant. And so then it was Alice Ripley, who we do love, but she can't sing Amalia. And she loves me. And that's just a fact. That's why QNC is amazing. And she would have won a Tony if she had gotten it. I'm convinced of that. Yeah. It's my one, like, tinfoil hat theory.

[B]

Have you told her?

[A]

Yes. It's not my proudest memory.

[B]

Did it go over well?

[A]

Have you? Well, so it is live. In a way it did. And in a way, it's a thing that happened. I saw Fun Home and my friend Emily was in it. Emily Skeggs. And. Yeah, Emerson. Woohoo. And she knew how I felt about Cutesy and didn't tell me that I was going to be meeting Judy Kuhn. You don't tell a homosexual. Sorry. You don't go and sneak Judy Kuhn up on a homosexual. You tell them ahead of time. You're meeting Judy Kuhn. Same thing with Audra or, you know, Donna Murphy. And she just like, oh, Judy, my friend Matt is a fan of Yours. And the first words out of my mouth were, I'm so sorry for what's about to happen, and just word vomit. I talked about Mystery of Bevin Drood. I mentioned Pocahontas. I Talked about the 10th anniversary of Les Mis. Beth Malone is just standing there looking at me like it's Wimbledon. She's like, watching Judy watching me, watching Judy watching me. It ends. And Kunzie, to her credit, just goes, do you want a hug?

[B]

That's so sweet.

[A]

Yeah, no, it's a great story on her end.

[B]

Yeah. Are you okay?

[A]

Are you okay? Fun fact. I also did Les Mis at the tender age of 12. Have you done. Who's done? Les Mis? The High School edition from mti. Oh, okay. So, okay, There's a High School edition of Les Mis. Like, there's once on this island. Junior into the woods Junior. It's mostly just Les Mis. It's 30 minutes shorter and the keys are easier for teenagers. They give you what's called a reference recording.

[B]

Yes. Yeah, of course.

[A]

Where they have kids who sing it for you. So you know how it's supposed to sound if you listen to the prologue when Valjean is on parole and he gets a job with all these, like, farm workers, something. Yeah, yeah. He's given, you know, two pennies and told to go away. And he goes, this is nothing. And there's supposed to be a farm worker who's like, you broke the law. It's there for people to see. If you listen to the reference recording, you'll hear a little 12 year old me go, you broke the law. It's there for people to see.

[B]

And you were on the recording.

[A]

I am on the recording with Skylar Ast.

[B]

Wow.

[A]

Eric Bergen. Adam Chandler Barat is in the ensemble. Yeah. And then. But I had that little solo.

[B]

I forgot you're a New York City kid.

[A]

I am.

[B]

So you were working and stuff when you were little? Did you do more of those. More of those, like, recording things?

[A]

None of those recording things. I worked. I worked.

[B]

That's amazing.

[A]

I worked.

[B]

But so far away from Broadway as a child, like, my Les Mis was like, you know.

[A]

Yeah. No, my family was much bigger on taking me to see Broadway. They didn't want me to be on Broadway.

[B]

Right.

[A]

Like, they took to see Les Mis when I was five. Right, right, right. Yeah. Because I. And I know that because Melba Moore was our Fantine. And if you don't know Melba Moore, she sings I Got Love from Pearly. Yeah. She was the first black Fantine on Broadway and she was in it from January to March of 1995. And my birthday is in March of 95. So I'm like, best case scenario, I just turned five when I saw Les Mis. Yeah. My parents had a lot of faith in me.

[B]

Wow.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

Wait, did you do the full production on stage and then they recorded it? Or how did it work? Or did you just record it for. For. Specifically for, like, the MTI thing?

[A]

No. So mti. MTI is Music Theater International. They're a licensing company. If you ever do, like, Guys and Dolls, you have to get the rights from them. They are the ones who do the Juniors and High School Editions. So it was a workshop production that I did where Skylar Astin was Andros, Adam Chandler Barat was Tenardier, and we did it. And then they were like, okay, we're gonna do a reference recording. So when high schools do it. Yeah, the cool. No, what's really cool is Les Mis closed on Broadway a year later. And Cameron McIntosh was like, we want everyone to know that Les Mis will never be forgotten. Children will keep doing it for years. So he had. At that point, the High School Edition had been performed for, like, a year. And so they had 30 of us who had done it in different school productions come together and do a medley at the closing night performance of Les Mis after the show was over on the stage in front of everyone. Cristin Miliotti was in that group with me. I have a Polaroid in, like, a stack from that week. And I was like, oh, hello, future, like, Emmy winner. Yeah, I was entourage. I was 13. And so because I was 13, they're like, you'll wear the costume. You won't get a solo because your voice is going through things. But yeah, that was, like, the fun time.

[B]

That is so cool.

[A]

I have a photo of me with Alan Cumming from the after party that I. That I have framed. Yeah.

[B]

Do you have a video of this? Of the closing on stage?

[A]

Yeah, I mean, I don't. I think it's on YouTube.

[B]

Okay. Yeah, send it to me after.

[A]

I mean, like, great. Do you personally own videos of you and Mean Girls?

[B]

No. No, I don't.

[A]

Yeah, but, like, the videos are out there.

[B]

Yeah, that's true. That's true.

[A]

Is there a video of you and Les Mis?

[B]

I do have a recording of Les Mis. Yeah. But when I did Marius, and actually, I have a CD of it too. Like, they. Someone's mom burned us a CD of our performance because we thought it was so amazing, which it was really not.

[A]

But that's the Beauty of high school. So how. How would, how was your approach to Marius, though? Because he's a tricky role.

[B]

Uh huh. Yeah. I don't know that I was really thinking of my approach at the time. When I was 16, it was my natural energy. Like that was. Me in high school was just like youthful and kind and just wide eyed. And so that's how I played it, I think. And that was when I was like first discovering like my singing voice. And I remember thinking like, oh, there's something I can. I can sing these notes and hold them out. And I just felt like, I felt like, you know, something about Les Mis makes you feel like you're really a Broadway performer. Right? There's just the energy and the drama and like. Yeah, I. I think it was the first time that I was like, oh, I think I can do this professionally. Seriously, playing Marius and Les Mis, I mean, that's a.

[A]

If you can get away with playing Marius, you can.

[B]

No, but I mean, it's sort of not. Not the. It's not the most exciting role in the show, right?

[A]

No, no. Do you have any Marius apologists out there who are like, I think he's secretly the golden track? Yeah, that's what I thought.

[B]

It's kind of bleak. Yeah.

[A]

Yeah, well, cuz, like little generic. Yeah. But I think that's sort of every part in that show fits a place in a tapestry. Right. Like Anjaras is like the heart pumping. Like not Lothario, but like, kind of like what you would imagine the hero of a story to be.

[B]

Right.

[A]

And the actual hero is this, like, I don't know, sensitive inside boy.

[B]

Yeah, he does have the biggest arc. Right. Like Marius, like you said, he does go. Like he survives everything and sees.

[A]

Would we call that an arc or would we call that someone who things happen to?

[B]

I mean, I guess isn't that the definition of an arc? Right. Like life happens to you.

[A]

Yeah. But then, like, how do you, like how do you shift from it?

[B]

You know, it's like empty chairs at empty tables. Like he realizes some shit in that song that he's sad. Yeah, well, actually, like, let's walk through that song because I'm forgetting now what happened.

[A]

Okay. Actually, so Santino Fontana has a great joke about that song, that it's the perfect eight bar cut because it begins and you go, there's a grief that can't be spoken. Thank you. Because if it can't be spoken, why do you then sing for three more minutes? But that is ultimately the beauty of musical theater.

[B]

So true.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

Oh, my God. I love that so much.

[A]

That show also is really big on motifs of. You know, some would. A Negative Nancy would call, you know, recycling melodies. I think of it as a motif because, you know, it's something that Angela Lloyd Webber gets dragged for a lot. You know, he repeats stuff. But, you know, there are times when I think it makes sense. In Les Mis, Evita may be a little less so much as I love that show. Like in Evita, I don't know why the melody for Another Suitcase in Another hall is then the melody for the Actress hasn't learned the lines you like to hear. I'm like, what's going on here? Is it just that we like that? It scans well?

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

I can't tell you why. In Phantom of the Opera, angel of Music is so, like, faux opera. And then we go straight into 80s synth pop. I love it. Don't get me wrong. Like, it's chemically beautiful, but I like, dramaturgically speaking, like, what are we doing here? What's this about?

[B]

What are the major themes in Les Mis.

[A]

Oh, my God, a million. There's the On My Own theme, which is first sung by Fantine as she's dying and singing to, like, imaginary Cosette. Right? And then is a. Sung again by Eponine when she's singing about an imaginary Marius. Themes, dramaturgy. This is why this is important. And then when Valjean is dying, Fantine and Eponine sing that melody again. The Take my hand, I'll lead you to salvation. And my friend Prescott, drag queen. Suddenly, Seymour for any of you New York people, he said to me, like, why is Eponine there when Valjean dies? She met him for a second. I'm like, well, themes. It's about. L'. Irv. It's about. It's about, you know, sacrificing self for others and. And her and Fantine singing that melody line together. I'm like, it just makes sense to me.

[B]

Right?

[A]

Yeah. There's other ones. Castle on macleod is repeated only once, thank God. But after Attack on Rue Plumet. Oh, plot. But we didn't talk about Thenardier, the innkeeper who's mean. He recognizes Valjean many years later, because when Valjean goes to take Cosette away, he's like, here's money. I'm taking this little girl away. And Senardi is like, you know, peace be with you. But then he realizes that Valjean was worth, like, so much more money. And now he feels cheated. So he goes to rob Valjean with His gang. Eponine screams and they all run off. And Cosette sort of takes the fall for Valjean and she sings the Castle on the Cloud motif. The three men I saw beyond the wall. Three men. Three men in shadow moving fast. That's Castle on a Cloud. One day more. Marius. Theme is, I dreamed a dream I did not live before today I dreamed a dream A time gone by. Yeah, there's. Which I feel like, you know, there's themes to that. There's connections to that. There's so many more. Look down at the beginning. Is also used in Paris with the beggars. There's more. Come the bishop. Come and serve for you are weary. That's something.

[B]

Empty chair.

[A]

Thank you. What's the connection there? I'm actually asking you guys. I have no idea.

[B]

You mean the bishop in the beginning?

[A]

The bishop and Marius, what's their connection other than that they're dudes?

[B]

I don't know.

[A]

Is it that the bishop is not a wet blanket and Marius is.

[B]

You hate Marius.

[A]

I don't hate Marius. Like, I understand the significance of a nice guy with a thick head of hair. But I'm like, eponine, my love, you look so good in a trench coat. Like, the world is your oyster if you let it be. You must use sacrifice self for this boy. Especially when you see, like, who else is on that barricade. You're like, it's very Anne on Arrested Development. Just like her. Like, you're looking at all the other boys on the barricade. And Eponines like, marius, that's who I'll die for. And you're like her, you know.

[B]

Have you read the book? You've read Victor Hugo's novel?

[A]

I've tried.

[B]

You haven't. Is it just epic? It's too long.

[A]

Yeah, it's like eight, fifteen hundred pages.

[B]

Has anyone here read it?

[A]

The whole thing? How long did it take you guys? Yeah, I think. Well, so I think that was actually a case where my. Where my dad intervened when I tried to read it. Because when I was in sixth grade, I said I thought I fancied myself a reader. I'm like, I'm gonna read Gone with the Wind, which is an 800 page book. And it took me a year and a half. And then in high school, I was like, I'm gonna relay Miz. And I think I got through 200 pages over the course of two months. And my dad was like, no one here is, like, keeping score. You, like, just stop. Like, you're only hurting yourself right who.

[B]

Are you doing this for?

[A]

Yeah, but I've watched. There's a miniseries of it. There's a movie with Uma Thurman. That's who. She's Fantine. Oh, yeah. There's a movie from the 90s. Uma Thurman is Fantine. Liam Neeson is Valjean. Oh, right. Claire Danes is a bitchy Cosette. Oh. She, like, has issues.

[B]

It's a fun take.

[A]

Oh, yeah. Well, there have been many. There have been many movies. But Eponine's not in it at all. I know that. Or she's Gavroche isn't in it. Yeah. I just remember, because Cosette grows up and she's resentful that they're living in this nunnery, which. That's also something that you don't know in the actual stage show. Is that Cosette and Valjean live in a nunnery? Yeah. Did I just blow anybody's minds? That's why the. That's why the original production. Her costume was black with that, like, little white thing. Yeah, it was like the nuns. They had a whole sequence, actually. This is a fun fact. Okay, sorry. This is where I'm actually gonna prove my worth and not just be catty. So when we did that medley for the final performance of the Broadway production, John Caird, one of the co directors of Les Mis, came and spoke with us, as did Randy Graff, as did Claude Michel Schomburg, who said, if you're not sweating, you're not singing. And that was super important to me at 13. I've grown up now being like, that's unsustainable. But Les Mis, he said there was a chase sequence in Act 1 that they had to cut because the first preview of Les Mis was, like, five hours long. And it was. Yeah, I know. It was like, I don't know, the first preview of Gypsy. But they had this whole chase sequence when Valjean left the Thenardiers and Javert is chasing him and it's on the turntable and all this stuff. And he carries. He carried a dummy Cosette on his shoulders and went up the barricade and jumped into what turned out to be the garden of a nunnery. And, like. But Cosette's little dolly, like, fell on the ground. And Javert, like, thinks that he knows revelation is he can't be sure. And the nuns are like, we can't tell you. No one's in here. He's like, got it. Got it. And then he sees the doll on the ground. He's like, they're somewhere here. And then they transitioned into Paris and they were like, no one needs to know, like, exactly what happens. They're like, that's a 15 minute sequence. Just cut it. So they were just like, yeah, who cares? You know, Valjean and Javier are in the same spot again 10 years later. That's just what they do every. Every 10 years, they're in the same city in. In France.

[B]

It is a pretty, like, impressive thing that they made that massive book into a musical. And, like, there's so many characters and different plot points you have to follow and track, and it's like, a feat.

[A]

Yeah, well, you kind of sacrifice nuance, which is fine because the whole thing is, like, epic. So it's like big master strokes. I tell people all the time, don't come at Les Mis with a fine tooth comb. Because that plot does fall apart in the stage show if you. If you analyze it too much.

[B]

Yeah, but the music, I guess, sort of just lends itself to the emotion that's missing from the text, right?

[A]

I think so, yeah. What would be, like, the song for you in Les Mis?

[B]

In Les Mis, yeah. I mean, it is I dreamed a dream.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

Isn't it? I think that, like, that's. I think, the one that has the most, like, lasting power.

[A]

Have you ever gotten a chance to sing it?

[B]

No, no, it's. Now. It's on the bucket list, though. I dream to dream.

[A]

Are we gonna do a cabaret at any point?

[B]

Yes. Yeah, we'll play every part in Les Mis.

[A]

But. But Marius.

[B]

Yeah. Except, yeah, I definitely don't want to play Marius.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

Okay, so we have a Discord Channel for Broadway Breakdown. If you listen to the podcast, I highly recommend that you join. And I just asked the, like, you know, what are a couple things you'd want us to talk about? One person said. So we said, favorite song. If you could cut one song in Les Mis, what would it be?

[B]

Oh, that's tough, right? I mean, unfortunately, my gut is telling me. Castle on a Cloud. I know, right? Thanks, everybody.

[A]

So, yeah, in fairness to Gray, kids are the future. I don't love them on my stage. It's. It's. Wait, did you see Elf?

[B]

Kai Edgar was so good in Elf.

[A]

No, I did. And he. He did everything that I would hope a child actor does on stage. He sang really incredibly and, like, had scene work, but, like, he knew when a star was on stage and was like, yeah, he was doing stuff that.

[B]

I was so shocked. But we were doing that eat the spaghetti scene, and, you know, I was just kind of talking to him about his day in that moment, because it's like they're saying Ashley Brown was singing some song and we're, like, eating the spaghetti. And at one point he was saying, like, you know what you should have next is a chocolate monster. Because later in the scene I like, talk about this hot chocolate thing. And he planted the seed as the character that then Buddy would later reference. And I was like, kai, you're just, like, doing amazing text work over here in Elf. It, like, blew my mind that he was, like, connecting the dots while we were just supposed to be like, chit chatting about our days. You know what I mean?

[A]

Yeah. No, children can be the dramaturgs on my shows. I just. I don't love them on my stage.

[B]

So you have a problem with the child actors that have played the role?

[A]

Yeah, it's not their fault, though.

[B]

But the song is sort of like a. It's. I guess if there's one to cut, that, to me, is the most depressing song, I think.

[A]

Yeah. And they've. Well, to be fair, they also have. They kept cutting it down. It used to be like three minutes long. And then somebody said, one day Matt Koplik's gonna be born and he's gonna hate this. So let's cut this down to 40 seconds. And they also used to be like a post bit on it where. Because it used to be. It now goes into, like, not in my class, all on a cloud. And then Madison RDA comes in. She's like, well, look, Uzi. Yeah, it used to be. And you can watch in the Dreamcast as well before she comes on. She's like, oh, help. I haven't started. I haven't finished scrubbing the floors and they're gonna beat me now. Like, it's like this three minute preamble that I'm just like. This is like Emilia Perez bullshit of just like. I'm just like singing on one note all of your inner thoughts. Yes. I'm like, we're better than that. Lame is. And so they cut it. But, yeah, I would. I would. I cut. Costa, look out. I would cut Turning. Anyone, you know, Turning. Yeah, that's. I think, the only song that repeats the Lovely Ladies medley motif. Again, I couldn't necessarily tell you why other than it's two situations where there are women on stage, but turning is post revolution. And it's just the women being like, those pretty boys went to fight and they. Yeah, they couldn't have done it. Yeah, no.

[B]

Yeah, it's definitely it was filler.

[A]

You don't need it in the movie. There were a lot of things I felt the movie didn't need.

[B]

Oh, yeah. We haven't discussed the movie.

[A]

Do we want to talk about the movie for a minute? So the. Well, they make changes in the movie Gray, which changes.

[B]

I don't remember well.

[A]

So one thing that they do that I don't like is that they add dialogue. Here's what I don't like about adding dialogue to Les Mis. In the same way that I don't like, they add dialogue to miss Igon. When you set a world where we're singing text, not just like, my inner thoughts, but like, hey, how are you? And then the next scene, someone literally says, hey, how are you? Like, why are we not singing anymore? Like, it's. It's just. It's. It's whiplash.

[B]

Right.

[A]

So there's. Yeah, they also. They change the placements of I Dreamed a Dream and One Day More. Because it used to be this actually the I dream. Dream change I like, because it used to be at the end of the day, I dreamed the dream. Lovely ladies in the movie, it's at the end of the day, Lovely ladies. I Dreamed a Dream. Right.

[B]

Yeah. We ultimately want to see. She sings that and dies in the movie. Right. But that doesn't happen in the. This show.

[A]

What? The way it is in the show is like in a stage show. The way it goes is we are introduced to someone, they sing a song about who they are, and we go, great, I'm gonna follow you for an hour in a movie. It's like, I kind of need to follow you for an hour before I have you sing. Yeah, exactly. So that works for me. 1. My hot take is One Day More. That song is so incredible on stage. You could have cut it from the movie because, well, it dip it. I have a thing. I love that song. Tell me what happens in it, storytelling wise. Anybody? Tell me what happens.

[B]

Oh, Marius does make a decision in that song. Right.

[A]

The one thing that happens is that the wet blanket decides to get off the towel rack. You know what you can do in a movie? You can have Eddie Redmayne just go boom and walk out the door. Done. Economy, baby. Yeah. And we could have gotten an extra verse of another song for that.

[B]

Wait, so where does that fall in the movie then? I don't remember.

[A]

So in the movie, it's the actual finale, but. Oh, sorry. No, it's not One Day More that they move. They move. Do you hear the people sing? Is what they Move to. They put. Instead of it happening before in my life, Heart full of love. They do it after. One day more.

[B]

Okay.

[A]

At the general. What's his name? Bismarck. No, but not Bismarck. Lamarck. Thank you, Lamar. I was like, I know it's not. Yeah. Lamarck is dead. That's how I have to know. Lamarck is dead. Yeah. They do it at his funeral. It's a wonderful moment.

[B]

What are your thoughts on the singing live on camera in the movie?

[A]

If they did it like they did it in Wicked, I would have been thrilled. But Tom Hooper, the director, said, you know what I hate about musicals? When they sound good. Was that mean? I mean, there. I think there are some people. There are some people in that movie who I think are successful because you have people who actually can sing, like Anne Hathaway. And then Tom Hooper is like, great, now make it sound like you haven't had water in seven days. And props to her. This is why I do think she deserved that Oscar. She's like, okay, how do I serve Hooper while also knowing that if I don't hit these notes, the gays will have my butt. And so she, like, she hits every note she's supposed to. There are some people in the movie who do not hit their notes. Yeah. I'm also like, like, sing Bring him home live on set. That's totally fine. Right. Why are we belting it right when everyone is sleeping? It's like three in the morning.

[B]

Right, right, right.

[A]

It's supposed to be an intimate prayer with God. And Hugh Jackman's like, you know what this song needs to be Some belt, some roses turned.

[B]

Oh, God, yes. Yeah.

[A]

Like, you guys remember that, right? Where.

[B]

Yeah, where.

[A]

Where were you in your moment of life when you were watching Les Mis and you watched Hugh Jackman for the first time and he went, God, I can be very fair to a lot of people, and I love Hugh. But, like, that was when I was. I was like, that's how you know that there was not a single homosexual in that room that day.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

What about the movie do you think works?

[B]

Gosh, I mean, I don't know. For me, I think that the singing live was effective because it is so, like, raw and intense. Where on stage, like, I guess I dreamed a dream in the show is she's not at her rock bottom. And so you don't get the intensity of the. The song in the way that you do with Anne singing it in the movie. Right. So I don't know. In that way, I think it. I don't I think that perfect, pretty singing is often boring. Right. And so, I mean, not.

[A]

Have you heard yourself sing? Gray. You sing very pretty.

[B]

No, imperfect in many ways. And I think that that's human. Right. And so the story of Les Mis is like a story of humanity in many ways. And so I think in that way, I think the singing live was really exciting. And it was the first time that had really been done that way.

[A]

No, for a score like that. There have been movies that have done the live stuff, but, like, In Pieces, Rex Harrison and My Fair lady did his stuff live on set. Yeah, there are a couple of other. I don't know if there's been a full movie prior to Les Mis. Yeah, there's one of the Love Me Tonight, maybe. I think they did it live on set. I can't recall what is up Me Tonight. It's a Maurice Chevalier movie from the 30s. It's fine. No, it's a lovely movie. I'm so. We don't have to talk about it. It is French, though, then. I know Streisand sang a little live and Funny Girl. Yeah, I don't think any.

[B]

An entire movie. It's like, no, no, no, not.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

Since then, what has been done that way?

[A]

Wicked's been done live.

[B]

Wicked.

[A]

All of that was done well, so they say. I know they, like. They sang live on set. Whether everything we hear in the movie is from a live take is to be determined. Last five years. I know they sang live on set. I was on that set when they were filming. Still hurting. And I just remember being like, how is Alec Ketchup doing this? Like, take after take after take? Because if you see in the movie, she, like. She's. She sings well, but most importantly, she's not like. You don't see, like, the veins popping out of her head because it's. It's film acting. So it was very Anna Kendrick. Oh, yeah. In last five years. The thing with the live thing, like, the intimacy, the immediacy, I love that.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

But then it's like, okay, can you also, like, sing the rhythms that are there? Can you, like, hit the notes that are there? You gotta. I think it's a blend, right? You want to get the emotion. You want. You want to feel it.

[B]

I think that's why those recorded concerts are so successful.

[A]

Of Les mis is the 10th anniversary your go to when you listen to.

[B]

Yeah, I mean, that's the only one. I think that's also the album I would listen to over the original cast album.

[A]

Yeah. Well, it's also More of this. Okay, so. Okay, show of hands. Show of hands. We're going to see how this goes. Is your go to Les Mis recording the original London with Patty? Okay. I'm so glad she's not here. Original Broadway company with Randy Graf and Terrence Mann. It's a safe space, y'. All. You heard me just say a lot of stuff today. All right, so that's great. Yeah, you heard my Kunzy story. Like, we're all friends now. 10th anniversary Dreamcast. Okay, people, the symphonic recording. Well, it's the full score. There's another one. Oh, the lea Salonga, the 20th anniversary recording. That's the one with Jonas. Nick Jonas and alfie bow. Yeah. 2025. There's another one, though. The. Like the revival that came back with Ramin. Yeah, they. It was on tour before it was on Broadway. Not with him, though. And they had a recording of that. It was live recording of that. Oh, am I. Am I crazy? That recording exists? Yeah. Okay. Movie soundtrack. Awesome. Stand tall and proud. So, like, okay, of all of the Valjeans, who's your go to?

[B]

Oh, the og.

[A]

I mean, Colin.

[B]

Yes. And his voice is so iconic. Like, it's. There has never been another voice like that. I feel like the. I'm not even gonna attempt it, but.

[A]

It'S like, well, there's. There's Colm Wilkinson when the show begins, and then there's Colm Wilkinson by the time they do the 10th anniversary concert.

[B]

And what, he was like a caricature of himself?

[A]

Little bit. Yeah. I love that recording. But it's definitely him being like, I've been doing this for a while when they're doing Fantine's death. And it's the. Take my hand, the night grows ever colder. And it's the. Then I will keep you warm. And I just heard from going, then I will keep you all take shutter from the storm. And. And he has. Oh, he also does the Take my flight in the prologue when, you know, when he steals the candlesticks. He goes, yeah, just took the silver. Took. And it's supposed to be just took my flight, but this man had been doing it for so long, it was so in the pocket. He goes, took my flight. Like, all of a sudden, Elphaba was in the room. It was. It's me. And it was phenomenal. But, yeah, he's, you know, he's a great Valjean. Then who's your go to, Fantine?

[B]

Probably Lea Salonga.

[A]

Yeah. Is she also your go to Eponine?

[B]

I would probably. It was Randy Graff you said Ray original on Broadway. That's.

[A]

She was the original Fantine.

[B]

Oh.

[A]

Frances Rafael was the original Eponine.

[B]

Yes.

[A]

Her voice. Ooh, okay. Ooh, okay, this is the one. Eponines. Here we go. Frances Rafael, show of hands. Sweet Leah Salonga, show of hands. Samantha Barks, show of hands. Nikki M. James. Show of hands. Celia Keenan Bolger. Show of hands. Oh, yes, she sure did that. I saw her do it.

[B]

I did, too.

[A]

Her eponine was interesting. She decided that her eponine was always, like, kind of mid squat. I'm not being mean. I'm not being mean.

[B]

Physically, always at a squat.

[A]

Like, physically. She was always kind of at a bent. And I always sort of viewed it as like, her eponine was like, I have to be ready to go at any moment. So she was always, like, in runner's position at any point, which I loved. I was like, oh, her eponine's like a very sad, hungry jaguar. Yeah. Who are some other big eponines? Sutton Foster. There's a bootleg of Sutton Foster doing it. Who's seen that bootleg? Yeah, it's a good bootleg. Whoever filmed that bootleg is a friend or family member of Sutton Foster. Because as I said, everybody doubles. So at the end of the day, that camera is not on Fantine. It is on Sutton Foster as one of the mill workers. And I'm like, I want a friend in the audience. Just like that. Who are some other big eponines that I'm missing?

[B]

Gosh, I don't know.

[A]

No, no. Lea Michele and the Hollywood Bowl. Yeah, that's what I thought. Okay, so fantine, then. Patti LuPone. Yeah, yeah.

[B]

Pretty iconic, right?

[A]

Yeah. She does a thing in her fountain. If you watch her on the Oliviers, she's singing I Dream Dream. It's shortened, but she's, like, playing with the locket the entire time. And I just. I was like. I just. I spent more time than I'm willing to admit. And considering that I told you all my Judy Kuhn story, that's saying something. I spent so much time watching that video, like, analyzing that locket, spinning, because I'm like, what's going on with that? What's happening?

[B]

What do you think?

[A]

Yeah, what's. I think it's her connection to the love that left her when autumn came.

[B]

Right.

[A]

Which is a lyric. Her love to Cosette.

[B]

Right.

[A]

And also, just, like, when you're having a bit of a breakdown, you need some. When you have, like, a panic attack, you need something to hold you to the ground. Right. So she's doing that.

[B]

Comforting.

[A]

Yeah, comforting. It's also a very nice wig. Okay, so Patti Lupon, Randy Graff.

[B]

Yes.

[A]

Okay. What I will say about Randy Graff is that she's the only Fantine I've seen or heard when Fantine dies. Because it's, you know, it's the telecos that I love her and I'll see her when I wake.

[B]

Right.

[A]

Most Fantines are like, well, I'm dying. Right? So like my last breath's gonna be Randy Graff's like, well, if I'm dying, I want to, like, I want to go out. So she's. She belts the end of it. She goes, tell her. Goes that I love it. I'll see you when I wink. And I was like, it's kind of a. I love that choice. It's like if Mariah Carey played Fantine, you're like, it's like, I may be gone, but I'm not forgotten.

[B]

Right?

[A]

Yeah, yeah. Ruthie Henshaw, Fantine, who's. Yes, people. Yeah. Annie hath. Yes. Listen, say what you love about the movie. She is good in that movie. And I feel like we've all come around on her again. Right? Yeah. She's always been important to me.

[B]

Right.

[A]

Yeah. Her and Princess Diaries. That was my introduction to the blowout haircut. I didn't know that that was a thing until I saw that movie. And then every girl who had a bat mitzvah the following year had the same Princess Diary haircut. Of course. Yeah. There's another one. Leah Salonga. Yes. There's no general consensus on our Fantines. We seem to have more of a consensus on our eponines. Who's another Casey Levy? Casey. Yeah.

[B]

And then Erica Henningsen replaced her.

[A]

She sure did. I saw Erica do it.

[B]

Did you really?

[A]

Uh huh. I saw. Because Melissa Mitchell was in that show and I saw her go on for Cosette when Erica had replaced. Yeah, yeah.

[B]

She was really young to have booked.

[A]

That she was that part.

[B]

But I guess, I guess she's supposed. I guess she's.

[A]

I guess she's talented.

[B]

But that part normally, I guess, is played by someone older. But the character is supposed to be a young woman, right?

[A]

Well, yeah, there's a difference between being 20 years old in 1870 and being 20 years old today. Like we have, we have skin care regiments. If you have a child out of wedlock, you can become an Instagram influencer. You don't get fired from your job. You don't have to sell your two front teeth. You can take pictures of your feet. Like, it's a different world.

[B]

Not. Not that.

[A]

Yeah. You don't have to sell your hair. Just things like. Things like that. So, yeah, I think. I do think you should be, like, around 30 plus if you're playing Fantine. Just, you know. Yeah, yeah. Also, it gives you a dichotomy if you're going against, like, the students who are probably gonna be 20, 25 years old. What kind of voice do you like to hear when you listen to Ole Miss? That kind of sound.

[B]

What kind of sound do I like to hear when I hear Les Mis? A full sound. I mean, the opposite of a pop sound.

[A]

Yeah. Yeah. Like a full throated. Yeah, full throated.

[B]

I think so, yeah. I mean, yeah. It's epic music, right? You want it? To me, Les Mis is Broadway. Like, that's what I think of when I think of a Broadway show. Yeah.

[A]

I agree with that. There's. I feel like Les Mis inspired a kind of singing in the 1990s that I'm obsessed with. It's why. Okay, so again, show of hands, we're all familiar with the ragtime. Yes, yes. Marin, Maisie, that. Talk about an arc. That's. A woman spends two and a half hours learning how to belt. That's. It's true.

[B]

Back to before.

[A]

It's called I've Learned how to Belt. So Ragtime, Titanic, Sideshow. Yeah. Tunnel of Love, baby. Those are, like, big things that I feel like are influenced because of the Les Mis of it all.

[B]

Totally.

[A]

Yeah. It's. But the thing is that in the. Okay, here's where the 90s take the wrong lessons from Les Mis, because Les Mis is big singing. But it's a big story. Right. You're covering 30 years. Yeah.

[B]

Epic.

[A]

There's bread and convicts and, you know, teeth missing and things like that. I'll never get over the teeth thing, but that, like, so that require. And like, oh, I've been fired from my job and I may die. So, like, it's the big singing something like sideshow, where you're on a fairground ride with your conjoined sister, your manager, and your possibly gay composer. Like, high stakes.

[B]

Ish.

[A]

Is it high stakes enough that you should be belting an E for 10 seconds long? I'm not convinced. It's just. It's very different worlds. Right? It's. It's like. It's the difference between singing your guts out because it's life or death or singing your guts out because you need someone to pass The Salt and the 90s were a lot of musicals where it was like, Pass the Assault, Right? Yeah, yeah, yeah.

[B]

But it's earned in Les Mis.

[A]

Of course. Of course it's earned in Les Mis because, you know, it's all about life, death, and I hate to say it, but God. God is really the princess track of that show.

[B]

Sure, yeah. It doesn't do much, but.

[A]

It doesn't do much. Yeah. He. God, is the Reddit threat of that show because he's just sort of sitting there having opinions about everyone and not doing anything to change it.

[B]

It's classic God.

[A]

Classic God.

[B]

My Lord. Do you think we're due for a revival of it? I mean, I know it's touring right now.

[A]

I mean, I. Yes, yes.

[B]

It was a while. Yeah, it's been a while.

[A]

I would want a turntable again, though.

[B]

Was there not a turntable in this last one?

[A]

No, we got projections instead. Mmm. Yeah.

[B]

That's how you do that a lot.

[A]

That's how you know that we're. We're lesser than we were in the.

[B]

Right. Wait. Also, sidebar. When I saw the Celia version. What year was that?

[A]

Oh, six.

[B]

Yeah, six. I saw the Night where. And I think there's a famous bootleg of this where Gary beach didn't come on stage for his entrance. As to Nardier, and, like, he just wasn't there. And so the whole ensemble was just killing time. They're like, get out here tonight for, like, five, ten minutes.

[A]

Oh.

[B]

And everyone in the audience was like, something's definitely wrong. But they kept it going for some reason. And then finally he came out and I think had fallen asleep in his dressing room or something.

[A]

Okay, so I didn't know that.

[B]

Yeah, that's there that night.

[A]

That's the third story I've now heard of Les Mis, where a major person did not come on for their entrance.

[B]

What are the others?

[A]

So there's a Patty story and there's a Colin Wilkinson story. I'm assuming half this room knows the Patty story. We'll tell it anyway. They're in London. I think they've transferred to the Palace Theater at this point. And they're like, six months into the run. And Patty's living her best princess track life. And she decides, okay, I'm dead now. I'm not gonna listen to the show anymore. I'm gonna read a magazine. I'm gonna turn off the. The intercom before she knows it, they're at the end of the show, and she's not there as Ghostfantine to Like, welcome Valjean to the Pearly Gates and the Javert. Like, run in and be like, like. So she's like, I left Cole Wilkinson on stage alone for 10 bars of music. So she, like, goes downstairs and runs on and has to go on, like, enter from a different side. So, like, the audience and I just heard, you know, hi, I'm ready. Fantine at the end of my day.

[B]

But just by himself.

[A]

Just by himself, I would. That's like the John Doyle production of Les Mis, where it's like, there's no Fantine. It's just Valjean having a vision to himself.

[B]

Fantine is like a. She's a flute. Yeah.

[A]

Fantine is an empty chair at an empty table.

[B]

Wow. Wow.

[A]

But here's where the poetic justice comes. A year later, Randy Graf tells us this story. Randy Graf is dying as Fantine on her deathbed. And she's doing Come to Me, Cosette. The light is fading. And the way the original staging was, she gets out of her bed and crawls to the lip of the stage, and that's when Valjean's supposed to come on and lift her up. And you. And it's. You know, she knows that he's there because you hear, oh, Fantine, our time is running out. But she's just sitting there, and she goes. And soon it will be light. And just. You hear. And she's like, there's no around. So not only. And eventually, you hear on the intercom, oh, sh. And it's Colm Wilkinson's mic from backstage, and he's, like, in his dressing room. Eventually, he runs on and, like, and grabs her, and she says, like, the entire scene, he's being like, oh, Fantine, your child for nothing. Randy, I'm so sorry. I'm so sorry. But what she said was because she had to be back in the bed by that point, and he wasn't there, and she's supposed to be dying, so. Great. I'm gonna ask you to speak into the mic. What you see for the people who are listening to this podcast down the road.

[B]

He'S standing up, he's on his knees. She. He's dragging himself to the bed. The legs don't work. He's reaching out.

[A]

And that's when Colton came in. He was like. And I just pushed her into the bed.

[B]

That's kind of incredible.

[A]

Boom.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

I think we should add that into.

[A]

Every production, I think so. Make content, really struggle. We are wrapping things up. We've got about three minutes to go.

[B]

Great.

[A]

Gray, last question here from Discord. How would. How would you rate Les Mis on a scale of what, 1 to 1 to 10? 1 to 2, 1 to 90.

[B]

Okay. 1 to 10? I don't know. I would give Les Mis. I think I'd have to give Les mis, like, a 9. 9.5. I think it's almost a 10.

[A]

Almost. Yeah. Well, when it's three hours long, I give it a 10.

[B]

When it's.

[A]

When it's 245, I give it a 9. Yeah, because that's, like, everyone's. When it's two hours and 45 minutes, it's. That's one where it's, like, a little too fast for me.

[B]

Totally.

[A]

Usually, I'm a big fan of people kind of picking the pace up when there's a lot of dead air. That was. That's the case from, like, I don't need anyone in Les Mis to have a Celsius before. Like, just have a nice green tea and do the show, you know?

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

Is it in your top five shows?

[B]

Oh, yeah, Definitely. Yeah. I love that. It's sunk through, too. I don't know. It just flies by when it's sunk through. I love a sung through musical.

[A]

If someone were to roll their eyes at you when you say, I love Les Mis, and they go, ugh, Les Mis. How do you.

[B]

How do I respond to that?

[A]

How do you respond to that?

[B]

Get out. Get out of the room. You don't get it. I don't know. I would punch them in the face.

[A]

No, that's Andros energy, not Marius.

[B]

I've grown up.

[A]

Yeah. I think that's. We're all idyllic like Marius. Then we grow up and we. We become Entourage.

[B]

Weathered. Yes.

[A]

Yes. Yeah. I think the real tragedy is thinking that you're an Eponine, and then you're actually factory girl number three in life.

[B]

That's a good track, though. That's a really.

[A]

It's a good track. And one over here. Little innocent sister.

[B]

I know. I love that.

[A]

That might be a show that I can actually recite the entire show start to finish.

[B]

Yeah, I can. Pretty. I'm pretty close. Yeah. Yeah, it's.

[A]

It's. I don't look at that as a super nerd dumb thing. I think that shows our true colors as.

[B]

Totally.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

You should have just done that for an hour.

[A]

Just all the.

[B]

See if we can get through the show.

[A]

So actually, when I was a waiter at a restaurant, Times Square adjacent, I was like, a waiter with a whole bunch of actors, and we all knew Les Mis, and we would close at 11pm every night. And when it got to be 8 o', clock, we would all look at each other and we would all mentally and we would look at each other, we would nod and we'd go bum, bum, bum, bum. Because we're like, by the time I finish Les Mis in my head, my shift will be done. And that is how a lot of us got through shifts. So we would just look at each other. Yeah, that's how you become friends with straight boys is you go, okay, we're gonna sing Les Mis in our heads together.

[B]

Are you sure they were straight?

[A]

Yeah, that or Floyd Collins. But I don't know Floyd Collins super well, right? Ye. Gray, this has been delightful.

[B]

What a treat.

[A]

What treat? Where can people find you if you want them to find you?

[B]

Gray Henson At Instagram.

[A]

Yeah, yeah, I am on Instagram only at Matt Koplik Usual spelling. If you like the podcast, give us a nice listen on on Apple podcasts or Spotify. Whatever. Give us a nice five star rating. Everything helps. Yeah. Oh, thank you. Thank you again for joining us today. Don't forget to follow us at Broadway Podcast Network and Broadway Breakdown or Matt Copley. Thank you. And listen to the episode when it airs on BPN FM or wherever your podcast. Thank you so much everybody.