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- [00:00]
A
I want my mother to know I was here. I want my sisters to know I was here. I want my great granddaughter to know I was here. I want my students to know I was here. I want my niece to know I was here. I want your great granddaughters to know I was here. I was here. I want you. I want your great plan. I was here. I was here. We demand to be heard. We demand to be seen. We demand equality and nothing in between.
- [00:43]
B
Hello all you theater lovers both out and proud and on the DL. And welcome back to Broadway Breakdown, a podcast discussing the history und legacy of American theater's most exclusive address, Broadway. I am your host, Matt Koplik, the least famous and most opinionated of all the Broadway podcast hosts. And with me today is a great Drama Desk nominee. You might have known her work from the Band's Visit or Tootsie or Off Broadway in As yous like it at the Delacorte, but if you want to get to know her best, you should probably listen to the cast album or go directly to the Music Box Theater and experience stuff. We are Talking to one Ms. Andrea Grody. Hello, Andrea.
- [01:22]
A
Hi, Matt. Thanks for having me.
- [01:23]
B
Thanks for coming on. So you are, as the kids say, a music director, music arranger, vocal arranger, orchestrator. You're also a compose. So for Stuffs, your role is Han. Let me. I'm. I'm very professional. I'm on your IBDB right now. It says for Stuffs, incidental music arrangements by music director, musical supervisor conducted by vocal arrangements and keyboard. 2. Are all of those things correct or did IBDB lie?
- [01:54]
A
Those things are all correct. I do share the vocal arranger and incidental music arranger credits.
- [01:59]
B
Okay, so a music director. A music director and conductor, often for opening night are combined, but not necessarily once the show is a long running hit. For example, you're not at Stuffs right now. You are in a different state. So you aren't conducting the show.
- [02:16]
A
That's right. Though I believe these days music director and conductor do always go together because of the union. Music director means conductor of the show, so generally those titles will be the same.
- [02:30]
B
So for Sorry to swear, but I call them the uncultured out there. What is the difference between a musical director and a musical supervisor?
- [02:39]
A
That's a great question and it's very varied what the answer is some history about the union. So musicians in New York are members of a union called AFM, the American Federation of Musicians. We call it 802 because our local in New York is local 802. And music director is the person who conducts or keyboard conducts the show. As musicals have gotten bigger, the person who is overseeing the music department does not always conduct the show. So there came this time where the person who was the head of the department wanted a title that felt like the head of the department. But music director was not contractually a thing they could have if they stopped conducting the show. For example, I think, like Steven Narimus on Kinky Boots was the music supervisor, but he did arrangements and orchestrations, but he wasn't conducting the show because he had a lot of other stuff to do and his ears were used in the audience. So Music Supervisor became the name for that. However, it shows up in a lot of different ways because it's a name that sounds important and doesn't have any union connotations with anything else and can sort of adapt to whatever production it is. So some music supervisors are doing that sort of thing, like what I described with Steven Naramis, where they are overseeing the department. They're basically music directing without conducting the show. They're also probably doing some arrangements and orchestrations. They're musical auteurs in some way on the show. But sometimes you'll see a music supervisor on a show where maybe we're working with a pop artist or someone who has a producer that they work with who helps make their albums, but doesn't really know musical theater. So you need a music director or some other person on the team who can help take the musical talent they have and put it in the musical theater setting. And sometimes a show runs for a long time and there isn't a music supervisor, and then they get a music supervisor because the music director leaves the show but is still overseeing casting, replacements, other production stuff like that. So really, the only way to know what a music supervisor is doing is to ask.
- [04:40]
B
And thus I did. But so for unsuffs, we have you as music director. So you are in the room every day teaching the music, directing the music, conducting with the voices as you put the piece together in the room, and then conducting the orchestra. Once you were in the theater as an orchestrator, you and Michael Starabin. And did Shayna do orchestrations of that as well? No, she did. She did the vocals with you.
- [05:06]
A
Only Staraban did orchestrations. We did arrangements together.
- [05:09]
B
Got it. So you and Shayna then work on the vocal arrangements together and then sort of piecing it all together. So I guess we can go into, like, the who's and what's and whys of. Of you and your life in the theater. And then find our way back to things like stuffs and. And Tootsie and Band's visit and whatnot. How did you find yourself involved in theater? How did it enter your chat?
- [05:34]
A
I was always a storyteller through music. I'm a twin, and I always had a playmate as a kid, and we were making up stories. We were making up songs. The one I always remember, the. The game was you give the other person a word and they have to write a song about it. And one time my brother gave me the word wart. And when you're six, that's really funny. I wrote the blues. It was not a great song, but that's what we did as kids, so I was always doing stuff like that. I was writing music. I was a choir kid growing up. I. The summer before fourth grade, the local day camp I went to had a program where you would, like, write a musical. And the story I remember from that was, it was like different people on an island. And the. The fourth graders were on the not fertile side of the island, and there was a volcano and there was a fertile side, and the fifth graders were over there, and they had all of us as an assignment, make inventions for what we would do to survive. And I was like, I'm going to make a plane so I can go to the fertile side of the island and get some stuff. And then the whole story became about me being the smart one who came up with this plane and we were all going to escape the island. I was like, that's not what the plane is for. But anyway, there I was, age 9, writing musicals in some fashion.
- [06:43]
B
And so then what was the first musical you took part of? Do you remember?
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A
First musical I took part of that.
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B
You didn't write yourself?
- [06:54]
A
Yeah. I think I feel like I must have done something before this, but I can't remember anything before. I think the first one I might have done was Sweeney Todd, which is surprising. I feel like there must have been something, but that might have been it.
- [07:12]
B
Wait, wait, wait, wait. Did you. Okay, did. Were you the one who posted the video on Instagram?
- [07:19]
A
Yes, that was me.
- [07:21]
B
That was you. So, guys, if you. If you can, if you haven't watched it already, Andrea posted a video that went incredibly viral of a community theater, all children's production of Sweeney Todd. And we're talking like children. And the clip is the beggar woman in her opening scene. And because she's not allowed to sing any of the dirty words in her because, you know, she has split personality. So when she's doing the how'd you like to push me crump bit. They just have her waving her arms about for the entire measure. It's.
- [07:52]
A
Right.
- [07:53]
B
Yeah, it's pretty wild. And. And I'm obsessed with it. It's. That's amazing.
- [07:59]
A
I'm. I'm. I am not an active social media user. I started my. My first post on Instagram was June of this year.
- [08:07]
B
Welcome.
- [08:08]
A
Thank you. I'm very new to it. I don't really know what I'm doing. I feel great about not being too active with social media because I think it can kind of trap me and I'm happy to keep a distance. But I did rewatch that Sweeney Todd and I said I have to create a social media account to post this because it will go viral, because it is amazing. And I'm really thrilled that everyone else also thinks it's very funny.
- [08:31]
B
It is very funny. I would say, for someone who just started in June, you are doing Instagram very well.
- [08:38]
A
Thank you. I'm very pleased. Unfortunately, I only have one community children's theater production of Sweeney Todd, so don't expect a lot of material from me. But I do have a high quality standard, I hope.
- [08:49]
B
Yes, absolutely. So when did you start going on the other side of the table as a composer, as an arranger, as a music director?
- [09:00]
A
Very early. I was writing music even before I graduated elementary school. I wrote a piece for, I think high school was the first time I wrote a piece that was performed by a choir. I was in freshman or sophomore year. I went to a composition camp when I was in high school, but also on the theater side when I was 14, like, I was a pianist and I was a musician. So I got called upon by my local community theater because the pianist for A Funny Thing Happened on the Way to the Forum broke their wrist. So with a week's notice, I played the show. And I'm sure I did a terrible job, but I did do it. And then when I was in high school, I led the choir in some ways. I did some arranging for the jazz band for our jazz show. I was the assistant music director for, like, a production of wizard of Oz. So it was showing up. Looking back, it really seems inevitable that this is where I ended up. But it wasn't a specific career choice until the middle of college.
- [09:57]
B
Was there a moment in college that made you. Made you go, this is what I want to do? Or was it a moment where you went, I think this is what I've been doing, and I think I'm going to keep Doing it First there was.
- [10:06]
A
The moment of realizing what I wanted to do was not what I wanted, which was film composing. That's what I wanted to do when I started college and I spent a summer in la and I found that the day to day of being a film composer is very solitary. You're sitting in a room with a computer and I don't like that. So I had a couple months of really not knowing what I was going to do. Was I going to be a psychologist? Was I going to be a teacher? Was I going to veer off into science? I didn't know. And then somewhere in there, I thought I would pursue music directing. And I looked and I said, I've been doing this. Should I look at it? And at that point, I had already met Michael Friedman, who was the person who sort of gave me a career and who I followed into the industry. So through him I was able to make some connections and get myself started.
- [10:50]
B
To nerd out with you for a quick second, Speaking of film scores, are, do you have any handful of film scores that you point to? Is like, those are some of my favorites. If you are ever interested in compositions like Take a listen to these bad boys.
- [11:02]
A
Michael Giacchino, just in general, he's such a vivid, colorful composer. It's just everything he writes just springs right out and so much I really love his work. When I was in high school, I really liked. I think it was a score to Capote and Michael Dana wrote that score and I wrote to him. I wrote to all these people and we had a nice little email exchange and he won AN OSCAR About 10 years ago, I think maybe for Life of PI. I think I might be wrong on some of these details, but if you won for.
- [11:34]
B
If you won for Life of PI, it was about. Yeah, 11 years ago.
- [11:36]
A
Yeah. So I think that was it. And if it wasn't that he won more recently for something else, I've forgotten. But I was very excited because I remember writing to him when I was a kid and he's really talented. That Life of PI's 4 is really beautiful. And then, I mean, if you want an interesting score, that There Will Be Blood score is just wild. It's like. It's just I. I would never have made the choices they made. And it's so interesting to hear because it's so specific and it's such a different mind than I have. So, I mean, it's brilliant. So that's one I would recommend.
- [12:14]
B
It's been so long since I've seen it. It's like, mostly strings, right. And they're, like, playing really harsh, like, dissonant notes.
- [12:21]
A
And it's like a shot of, like, the outside, and it looks kind of bleak. And it's. Not much is happening for a while. I don't remember that much of the movie, but this is what I remember. These shots where not much was going on, and the strings come in. In the middle, and they're so intense, and they grow, and I'm like, what's going on? What is happening?
- [12:38]
B
I had that same reaction when I first watched on the Waterfront, which is famously scored by Leonard Bernstein, because I. I come from a family of cinephiles, and so my dad, like, sat me down at 14 to watch on the Waterfront. And I just remember, like, some scenes, I'd be like, why is there a giant timpani just blasting away while people are crossing the street? This is of energy for the task.
- [12:58]
A
It's. And that's the thing. Like, I. I'm fascinated by those moments because they're. See, I feel like they're seeing something I don't see. And either I understand it when I hear it, or I just feel dumb and I don't know what's going on, but it's a strong place. Yeah.
- [13:13]
B
And then sometimes it's. I feel like once we get used to the choices and we settle in and something kind of turns, or often it turns. Sometimes it just remains a mystery for us forever. And that's. And that is life.
- [13:25]
A
That's right.
- [13:26]
B
But so then we. So we pivot into theater with Michael Friedman and the public. What was your first show in New York then? Was that as you like it? No, not as you like it. Tempest.
- [13:38]
A
My first, like, production that I worked on.
- [13:41]
B
Yeah.
- [13:42]
A
The first production that I worked on in New York, I think, was Venice at the. And then immediately after Venice finished, I did Love's Labor's Lost, which was my first show in the park.
- [13:56]
B
Yes. The. Alex Timbers loves Labor's Lost.
- [13:58]
A
Yes. With Michael Friedman.
- [13:59]
B
Yes. Yes.
- [14:00]
A
Just a giant party, and it was absolutely delightful. We had a great.
- [14:05]
B
I wish I. I had seen it. I just remember there was a lot of talk of golf carts. And I think you. You worked with the marching band in that show.
- [14:12]
A
Yes, I did. I wrote the arrangements for the marching band at the time. Having a marching band. I mean, it's. It is a one line gag in the show. And Alex being Alex Timbers, the lyric is, we don't need songs with backup singers or a big brass band. A big brass band. And Alex said, what if we had a big brass band, and thus we went to a high school in New York and got this brass band to do the show every night. And they just came out like that. That's it. That's the whole lyric. And they came on. There's like 40 kids in uniform. And this was the summer Public Works started. And for people who don't know, Public Works is this huge community initiative that the public does. And now it's very normal, if you see those shows, to see, like, over 100 people on stage and all these different community ensembles, but they hadn't done that yet. So having this show and suddenly 40 high school kids in marching band uniform show up was a giant surprise. Also, the show is like 15 minutes from being over, so they've just been quietly there without anyone knowing the whole time. It was nuts.
- [15:07]
B
It's a great Princess track to have just to sit for two hours, not stress, come on at the very end, make a big impression and. And go for it. That's sort of how I feel about Emily Skinner's big song in Act 2. I mean, granted, she has other tracks to do, but I'm like, you go, girl. Like, you get to. You get to sort of have a nice track. And then at the very end, you come in with your letter and you. And you punch it out.
- [15:27]
A
It's true. It's a. It's a great track, though. I think actually the best Princess track in Suffs is Wilson, because Alva is a Suff. So Alva shows up in a lot of ensemble moments in a way that Wilson can't, because Wilson is not a suffering. So I think that Grace McLean, who plays Wilson, gets a little bit more time to chill.
- [15:46]
B
Yeah. And then when she comes on stage, she's just got so much energy because she's so rested.
- [15:51]
A
That's right.
- [15:53]
B
So how did stuffs come into your life, then? I mean, I'm assuming because you worked with Shayna on other projects as well.
- [16:00]
A
Yes, I met Shayna, I believe, in 2017. 16. 2016, while she was doing Hadestown. And I heard about her work and I thought she was cool, and I asked a mutual colleague to introduce us, and we got lunch and we talked about stuff, and she mentioned she was working on this show about the women's suffrage movement. And I said that I would like to do that, please. I did not say that to her, but I asked her more about it and I said, do you. She mentioned she was doing a lot of research. I said, do you have any books to recommend? She recommended Jailed For Freedom, which is the book that Dora Stevens, who's a character in the show, wrote. So I went to the library and I got jailed for Freedom. And I read it and it was really interesting. And I wrote to her and said this was really interesting. And I saw this part in the prologue and I had a question for her and she talked about it. And I think it's a good example of if you're interested in someone, invest in what they share with you and follow up. And I don't know if that's what did it, but then she followed up with me a few months later to ask about music directing. As yous like it, which was the adaptation she wrote for Public Works. And I said yes immediately and we had a great time and that was kind of my audition for stuff. So if it went well, then she would want to work with me. And I got an email a few months after as yous like it closed about doing a workshop of suffs. And it was a four day workshop. And I was scheduled on that fourth day to go take my first ever paid vacation from work. Said I can do the first three days, but not the last. And they didn't respond to me for a couple days. And I said, do you need me to change my flight? And they said, well, you know. And I said, I'm changing my flight. And I was a day late to the family vacation. And I have no regrets.
- [17:35]
B
And I'm looking at it now. I'm sure your family was like, totally understand. Worth it.
- [17:40]
A
Right? Choice.
- [17:40]
B
Yeah, correct choice there, Andrea. So with stuff, how long. When did actual work begin on the show? Once sort of research was underway and like Penn was starting to go to paper.
- [17:52]
A
Shanna started working on it before I was involved. She was researching. I think in 2014 is when Rachel Sussman gave her the book Jailed for Freedom. So when I came on board for that workshop in January 2018, there were six songs and five actors. And that's all we had. Younger at the Gates, which is the beginning of Act 2, was always meant to be the Act 1 closer. That's what it was off Broadway. So it was all songs from act one and then one extra vaudeville song that could have gone anywhere. So we learned those songs and it was interesting. We developed the show. It took us four workshops for Shaida to finish Act One. So it was a lot of work, a lot of workshops, getting through that writing process for her. And that was 2018. By December 2018, we had a full draft of Act 1. And then in May, I think 2019, we did just Act 2. And then that fall, fall of 2019, we did the whole show for the first time. And that was the sixth workshop. And it was just. There was so much music, and it was very dense, and it was intense. So it took us a full week to learn the score that time.
- [18:58]
B
So with that, once you had the whole show sort of in front of you at that December workshop, can you remember sort of what the immediate response from the creative team was of sort of what you had, what needed to be worked on, what the next step was.
- [19:14]
A
It. From the first day, it just. The show felt like a historical event. It was. It was phenomenal. It was spectacular. There was just this crackling energy about it. It was so powerful. And every workshop we did, I said, I feel like I will look back on these moments as history being made within musical theater. It was so powerful. It was really exciting to be there. There was to be done, but we. We felt like we had a real hit on our hands.
- [19:41]
B
So then what was the. The objective between the Public and Broadway? Because you ultimately had, I guess, like a year and a half in between the Public run and Broadway. So in that year and a half, which I know there was at least one more workshop in that time, I'm sure more than that, but I was only given confirmation of one, so I can legally only say that I know of one.
- [20:04]
A
But this is where I give Shayna the most credit as a writer, because the show always felt incredible. And then when we did it off Broadway, there were things that worked and there were things that didn't, and we all knew that, and we learned a lot. And, I mean, right after the show opened, we had a meeting, and Shana started talking about what she wanted to revise. And it was so impressive because you come in going, is the writer going to know what to do? And it was so clear. She knew what to do, and we collaborated, but she was clear on what she needed to do. And then a lot of the show changed, and it became better. And all of the things that had been amazing before, but that had been concerns even through development. I mean, doing a workshop of a show is different than doing a production because it's just listening to people stand and sing. And then when everything gets involved, like, it takes up more space, so what the show is sort of evolves around that. So it really helped her see clearly where she needed to go. And the show became more streamlined, more focused, less sung through, more back to her songwriter roots. And she changed a lot of things between The Off Broadway production and that fall workshop, which was about six months later. And then I got more involved with vocal arrangements, and there were some incidental arrangement things that happened. In particular, when we were doing the workshop, we had a new choreographer, so we were working with some new things there. So we got into that workshop and a lot evolved. The set hadn't changed yet, but we were in the process of doing some serious rehauling even at that time. And always, like, the essence of the show was the same, but as things happened, the way that the show spoke changed and it felt like a good direction. So then once after that workshop, things changed in Act 2, but it was really honing in Act 1, and we were all like, yeah, we're good. Like, we know what we need to do for act two, but we understand. And then the producers wanted us to do one more 29 hour read, and we were like, oh, okay, fine, we'll do it. But also we. We know what we need to do and we'll just. We're just gonna do it. But then we could. And then we got a production.
- [22:08]
B
So for a number like Find a Way, which is a major story song with, let's be honest, very, very tight, awesome vocal arrangements. I'm very into the harmonies on Findaway and how they keep building as the team builds. So could you sort of. Maybe for someone like me, who I understand music on sort of a chemical level, I did study musical theater. Full disclosure, my listeners know this already, but it's why I'm being so informal about Shayna's name instead of like, Ms. Tab. I went to the theater camp with Shayna for a number of years back in the day. I guarantee you, if you said my name to her, she'd be like, that sounds like someone who was in my orbit once in my life. She would not remember me specifically, but I remember her very well because she was a superstar even back then. But I've always had a chemical understanding of music. But I. I don't have the gift of being able to maneuver music in the way that you do that Shayna does. So for something like Find a Way, how did you two sort of collaborate on that song on a musical vocal arrangement level as a piece of stories, piece of character?
- [23:17]
A
And I'll say that Find a Way as it is now is mostly Shayna. Vocal arrangement wise, was a period where that song was longer. And then I created a few variations. But that song stacks. There's a melody, and Shana writes interesting chords. So the way that the melody fits in with the chords is interesting. Like, if we're going into music theory land. Here we go. You know, a basic chord in Western harmony is a triad. You've got three notes, like do mi. So classic chord. And often using one of those notes while the chord is playing. And that's how it. And then as the chords change, you sing notes that are in different chords, and that's how harmonic progression works. But there are a lot of chords in that song that move in interesting ways and that also have more than three notes that are like a seventh chord. So then what note you are in, the chord goes interesting places. And then the harmonies mean different things. So everybody's moving. Actually, not that much. It's. You know, how will we do it when it's never been done? How will we find a way? Like, there it's. Everyone's sort of moving together in the same directions, but because the chords are funky, those things mean different things. I think the notes on where there isn't one are very interesting because Shayna loves a diminished chord, which has a particular dark quality. And that particular. Where there isn't one is everyone moving parallel through a diminished chord, which is a cool sound. But then I think what makes those harmonies sound cool is just the way that the moving triad sits in with the chords underneath it.
- [24:51]
B
So then for something like the march, which is. I'm just going with all, like, the super big numbers, like, as many voices as possible. So something like the march. I. I was supposed to see Subset the public. Unfortunately, a few members of your. Of your organization came down with COVID and my performance got canceled. I'm still not bitter about it, I swear. But we are.
- [25:12]
A
We'll. We'll all be bitter about it with you.
- [25:15]
B
Thank you. Thank you. I was. Well, because I. I always love when I can see something in an earlier incarnation and see the progression, Especially for Broadway, Whether it's improved or or not as improved. It goes both ways. But I get joy either way. There have been some shows where I'm like, oh, my God, like, they just took it from off Broadway and they made it, like, gangbusters. And then sometimes I'm like, it was better off Broadway either way. I love being that person. So I didn't get that chance with Seth. So I don't know how far some of these songs have progressed since then. But the march is like, that's a. That's a majorly epic song with. Yes. So for as a music director, then you have this room full of, you know, dynamic voices. How do you As a music director, kind of guide the company through all of it and then find the dynamic, create. Start to create dynamics with them as well.
- [26:06]
A
Sure. And this one, I'll say I did. I did the vocal arrangement for the march.
- [26:09]
B
Yeah, you did.
- [26:10]
A
It started there. And I sent it to my dad recently because he wanted to understand more of what the process was of the songs getting made. And I went back and found the email Shayna sent me with the demo, which was her doing the call and response. And her direction to me was, I want you to vocal arrange the living out of this song. Very good. Challenge accepted. So there's a lot of fun. I'm. I'm very proud of that vocal arrangement. I think I did some of my best work there.
- [26:39]
B
It's. It's pretty killer.
- [26:41]
A
Thank you. I'm very proud of it. So I think it really starts like, she wrote a great song. It's got a lot of call and response. There's a lot of cool growth. There are different styles. Like, not different styles within it, but different modes. Like, you know, we demand to be heard. Wait. Like, more like sharp moments. And then the I was here section. There's all sorts of fun, flowy stuff, different levels and layers that I got to make that are fun. So starting with good writing is helpful when you're music directing. If I may say that about my own work, I feel pretty pleased about it. And Shana, I think, wrote a really great song. So we started there. And then I think one of my strengths as a music director is knowing what something is for. So it's not just you sing these notes. These notes, like, this is call and response. So this needs to be right on rhythm because you are teaching us a song, and we are responding to you. And this grows this way because that's what you're doing. And then this section flows differently because you're speaking more to yourself. The writing matches that. But let the text do the work. Do what the text is giving you. And then as a music director, you've just got to be clean. What's this vowel? What's this cutoff? Are we all ending the word at the same time? Are we all making the same choice? And sometimes in a rehearsal, I know at the beginning, and sometimes I don't know, and I'm like, sing your instinct, and then we will figure out what it is. And then once I know what it is, I will tell you. But if you don't know yet, I don't like to tell people before I know because something's going to come out of you. And from that we'll all learn what it is.
- [28:08]
B
Oh, yeah.
- [28:09]
A
Specific about it.
- [28:10]
B
Yeah, I'm trying to think. So. Like, that reminds me of another public show, a famous one. I. I'm sure most of my listeners and you are familiar with A Chorus Line, but I mean, that's a show that very much kind of fermented the idea of how we do workshops now and. And ensemble additions and investments. So something like, I think about the hello 12, hello 13, hello love montage, especially the end where there's sort of that cacophony of sound and everyone's singing on top of each other. You've got Life is an Ashtray and all that stuff. And obviously that comes from experimentation of actors trying to improvising stuff. And let's find it in your voice. Let's pick that. We need this line to come out above all the other clashes and things like that. It's a messy vocal arrangement that I love and I know comes from the exact work that you speak of. There's another one I love that's not really from ad libbing or anything like that, but just comes from storytelling and from research, which is the opening sequence of Caroline or Change. Another public show. We're just. We're loving on the public today, but it's. It's hot. Take the Public Theater. They. They do some good stuff. But how familiar are you with Caroline or Change?
- [29:34]
A
Very familiar. I really love the show.
- [29:36]
B
Fantastic. You're my kind of people. So I've. I saw the show when I was 14. I saw the original production and very much changed my life. I saw this joke I make is, I saw Caroline or Change that May. And then lighting the piazza the following March. And after that double whammy, I became insufferable, just like, became an esoteric little teenager. I was like, you guys don't know what art is. But the opening sequence of Carolina Exchange I love because it's all different kinds of voices portraying specific items, slash characters of specific styles of music. But it all blends so well and it's so seamless. Just the way the washing machine goes into the radio, which goes into the dryer. And it's. And the way that Caroline's story comes through all of that. Are there any. When you listen to, like, a score, has there ever been moments where you listen to that and you're like, oh, that's a good. Like, that's a good moment of arrangement, rather like a good orchestration. Just like little nerdy things that you pick up on. As someone who is in the sauce all the time yourself.
- [30:36]
A
Oh, good. Nerdy arrangement. Orchestration moments. It's hard to know some. I mean, there's. The best orchestration moment I can think of is at the beginning of Whispering in Spring Awakening. There's this string thing that happens and it's just amazing. It's like right at the top of the song, she sings, whispering, it's been a while, so I might sing the wrong lyrics. Hold on. The moonlight. That very first sign in the strings go like. And it's like this weird creepy thing. And like, you know, the orchestrator made that up.
- [31:08]
B
Yeah.
- [31:09]
A
It's so cool. So I know that's a small moment, but, like, that kind of color is just the perfect ad. And then, I mean, arrangement wise, there's. There's some really awesome stuff in Hamilton that I admire. Like, wait for in the Room Where It Happens, Our amazing vocal arrangements. And the end of act one, talking about, like, the way things layer together. There's some really cool stuff going on in there. I think that Alex Lacamore did some extraordinary work.
- [31:41]
B
When songs start mashing up in that, like, one day more style in the finale, I get very happy. It's so silly, but I remember when I saw Book of Mormon right after they won the Tony and I had not listened to any of the score. I didn't know anything about it. I remember being in the Standing room and they were doing man up, the Act 1 finale. And my entire time I'm just thinking that, okay, the Act 1 finale is Cunningham doing Man Up. And then the moment Nikki M. James came out to start singing Salt Lake City, I went, they're doing Mashup. I just got. It was one of those things where I can be very jaded about theater sometimes because I've been in love with it for so long. And sometimes you see too many things you don't like. But every now and then I become like 9 year old me again. And I was in Standing Room jumping up and down because I saw what the finale was going to be all of a sudden, which I shouldn't have surprised because they did. The south park guys did the same thing with the south park movie where they had Love Resistance becomes like a mashup of all the songs of the movie. But it took me by surprise and I was very, very happy about it.
- [32:44]
A
And it's a funny thing because it seems almost cliche to be like, well, yeah, take all the songs and put them together and you can do that in a way that isn't helpful. But also, a musical needs to be pretty straightforward with its theme. Like, sometimes I talk about, like, a river, where it's like everything has to be flowing into the same river. So if you're writing the show well, all of those things should add up. So whatever catches your ear, it should mean something to you. So that. And then the best way that you can remind someone of something in a musical is to bring the music back so it feels silly. But also, every. Every. The songs in different musicals are different. So when you put them together in whatever way you do, either at the same time or in sequence, it should feel like something.
- [33:26]
B
Absolutely. I think where musicals have so much potential is the fact that I don't think any one show should be fully challenging or fully easy the entire time. There's nothing good about either of that. If it's fully easy, then you're placating and you become smooth brain by the end. And you don't learn anything about yourself or life or art by the end because you've got no pressure placed upon you. And if you're totally challenged the entire time, you start to, like, remove yourself from the moment and go at arm's length, and you don't get invested in it. But if you can find a way to blend the two. And I think musicals can do that because you can take maybe tricky subject matter, but give it music that people can all find compelling and universal. Or take a story that maybe seems simple on the page, but you give it maybe some more complex music that then create themes, and you realize you're training your ear to recognize the entire time. It's. It's like. It's a beautiful puzzle that I love putting together, but I know I could never make. And so I always have major appreciation for all of you who make them. So.
- [34:28]
A
Yeah, and it's interesting with, like, ch. I mean, and you can have many, I'm sure, deep discussions about this with writers, like, with. With challenging work where it's hard for an audience to understand who. Who is it for? Yeah, you know, what. What are you saying? And who is it for? And it doesn't mean that things can't be challenging. But if you're not writing songs that have hooks, if you're like, where. Where are the threads? How does it all. There has to be some unifying thing. Otherwise, what. What is it? And why have to get more specific about what a show is to have more nuanced things to say about it. But, like, sometimes when I work on musicals, I feel dumb because everyone's responding to something, and I don't get it yet. And I learned with a show that I worked on that was very good, but also challenging. When something changed, I was like, oh, I get it now. I was like, oh, sometimes it is. The writing is just not clear, and sometimes it's just like it's speaking to somebody else. And that's fine. But I learned to let that go. So I have learned to embrace when I get something and when I don't, and that that's okay. And sometimes it just, like. Especially if you're working on it and you're not seeing it in a whole production, you just need to see it in context. And then I'm like, oh, I. I see the bigger picture, and that there are playwrights and dramaturgs who are very good at picking up on those things very quickly. And sometimes it takes me a second and. But that's the time I spend learning the music and running the show.
- [35:57]
B
Yeah. I mean, I think that's fair. Anyone working on a musical, because it's so many components and everyone has so many things going on, and, you know, you can't see the forest or the trees or you're too in the sauce or. Or whatnot. And sometimes you're told something in rehearsal to do, and you're like, I don't why that. And you're like, I swear it's. It works. And you're like, I. And you want to believe, you gotta drink the Kool Aid. But part. Like, there's a little part of you, it's like, I'm not convinced. And so, like, it's not until it all comes together and you hope that it all works out. It's like everything. Every show we ever make is just a giant leap of faith. And. And we were hoping that someone is seeing it on the outside and puts it all together.
- [36:36]
A
Absolutely. No.
- [36:39]
B
Yeah. How did you get involved with Band's visit, if I might ask? Because you have. That's. You have two Yazbek scores on your resume. That and Tootsie I do.
- [36:48]
A
I was introduced to David Yazbeck by Dean Chernow, who worked on the musical the Fortress of Solitude at the Public, which I was the associate music director on. And we did one or two other things, like small workshops between Fortress and Band's visit. But he saw something in me, and when they were looking for a music director, he suggested me and set up a meeting, and I did something right. I was 26 when he called to ask if I wanted to music direct. At the end of the call, I said, if music director doesn't work out, will there be an associate position? Because I. I was hoping to be an associate MD on Broadway. I did not think it was my time. I wasn't ready. And he said, I don't think you're an associate anymore. And I said, oh, okay then. And I got the job, and I was terrified. And I worked really hard, and it was a really good fit for me in a way that I don't think anyone really could have known. I mean, maybe Dean knew in some way, but it was a really good fit for me. The piece and the team was great. And we lucked out that we. I mean, they wrote this beautiful, beautiful show, and we all saw what it was and wanted to make the same thing. And, yes, Beck, I guess, liked working with me and then asked me to do another show. And the three of us, me and Dina Yazbek worked together again on Tootsie and had a hell of a time.
- [38:02]
B
Yeah. Which is, you know, pretty much the same vibe as Bands visit, musically speaking. Yeah.
- [38:06]
A
Just. It's funny. People always say that, but I'm like, you know, Yazbek has written several different shows, and they're all different in some ways, but his thread is consistent. He's always got, like, a touch of crass and extremely smart lyrics. And the same. Like, the same heart and soul is in. Everything has a lot more crass humor in it. But the heart that drives the band's visit is there just the same.
- [38:33]
B
Absolutely. No, I. I love. Yes. I always felt that people were sleeping on him up until band's visit, because, I mean, I think that Full Monty score slaps dirty around. Scoundrels is so good. Women on the Verge is a show, but that score, when you listen to it, you're like, I really like this score.
- [38:46]
A
He's a really good songwriter. The song, like, the Beat, the Full Mon. You listen to the first three songs of Full Monty, and even now it sounds like something new and amazing is happening. It's just incredible. He's got such a strong voice. I saw Dead Outlaw this year. Three shows in three days. And I was like, that score is just. He's such a good writer and like that. It's just. There's such strong songs. It's a really special thing.
- [39:14]
B
Yeah, he's very versatile. When you. When you think about it, I remember, I don't know if you were in the city during the Spamalot Piazza Scoundrel spelling Bee year, but you were not. Okay? So you were spared from these idiots there because every you know, every show's got like their critics and some people have very valid opinions and some people just have access to the Internet, you know. But one of the critiques of the Scoundrel score at the time was that the score was too, quote, bipolar, that all the characters, songs sounded different. I was like, yeah, because they're all very different characters from each other. Like Freddie is very different from. I forget his name now, but the John, let's go character. Like they're, the whole point is that they're from totally different worlds, so their songs should sound different. And I mean, I, I, I wasn't, I was smart for a 15 year old, but I was 15, so I wasn't exactly smart smart, but even I could clock that. And, and it still holds up today. And his music for Women on the Verge is so good. The lyrics of Model Behavior should be studied. And Band's Visit is just like, as you said, like, he has a little bit of that, like, crassness in him always, but he's very smart about when he uses it. Intelligence is there, but also because that show is so not soft, but like dropped in. It's not showy. It's, he's very good at meeting the story where it's at, I find. Yeah.
- [40:41]
A
Dramatist.
- [40:42]
B
Yeah. Which is, which is I think why he's so versatile, because he's able to sort of go, what's the sound for this one? And not in a way that's show offy. Just like, let's make, let's make it work. Dead Outlaw was so fun. I enjoyed that so much.
- [40:54]
A
It was great. It's so gorgeous.
- [40:57]
B
So like something like Tootsie though. So that's like a, so between Suffs and Band's visit and then Fortress of Solitude, like, Tootsie is like the most old school, brassy Broadway music you probably have worked on in, in New York then, right?
- [41:12]
A
I think that's probably true.
- [41:14]
B
Yeah. So was that its own kind of challenge or was that sort of like a, just a real fun throwback of like yesteryear for you?
- [41:22]
A
The main challenge of like, it's the, I mean, Suffs is a like big Broadway musical, but Tootsie is a more old school, big Broadway musical. Tootsie has dance arrangements in a way that, I mean, stuff doesn't have any dance arrangements in that way. And that was a really great education. David Chase was our dance arranger and I, I really feel like Tootsie was a Broadway boot camp for me run by David Chase. I learned so much from him. He was such a. He's a really generous mentor, and he's a brilliant, brilliant dance arranger and also music supervisor. And I learned a lot of valuable history from him, because when you do dance arrangements for a show, you do these workshops where it's the dancer ranger and the choreographer and some dancers, and you're developing it all in real time. So all this creation time. And then there were some things where we were making vocal arrangements, and I was working on that stuff, and it was just so exciting to learn how those things are made, because the band's visit doesn't have dance arrangements. There's, you know, there's dance in it, but in a very different way. So it was great to learn a little bit more about how a show like that runs like a big Broadway machine. Not in a bad way, but just, you know, even, like, the elements of, you know, the members of the ensemble understudy the leads and, like, the way that you build a musical. Because the bands didn't really work like any of that because it was an ensemble piece, and because some of the actors were musicians, and there was all this other stuff that made it unique. So I learned a lot. It was a big show, and we had three weeks of tech, and I've never had a show with that much tech, and we did use the whole time, so it was really. But it was great.
- [43:02]
B
Are there examples of. I mean, you don't have to give any specific ones, but, like, of tailoring a song in real time in the room for an actor, of, you know, maybe it fit during auditions or it fit during a workshop. But then as you start to progress in the. In the rehearsal process for Broadway, you go, oh, maybe we need to start tweaking it here and there for this person so it can fit more comfortably.
- [43:24]
A
I mean, the best example is maybe an extreme example, but in Tootsie, I Won't Let yout Down is the song that Michael Dorsey sings as Dorothy and I. I would almost describe that song as choreographed, not movement wise, but vocally, because that was a moment where Santino the actor, needed to sing like a woman believably today. So we had a lot of conversation of what would that be? Because if you think about men singing like women, it tends to be people in falsetto with a lot of vibrato, like, you know, Mary Sunshine style in Chicago. But that's not believably real. That's not what women sing like today. So we both did some research. Santino is really smart as well, so we were involved in this together. And it's his voice. And we both sort of honed in on Mariah Carey, who like that pop sound of a lot of flipping registers is a great way to play around. And we spent time in a room, just the two of us, figuring out what we tried. I don't. I think he tried all 12 keys. I recorded the song for him in all 12 keys or sent him MIDI of it so he could mess around. And we found an area that worked for him vocally because he could flip. And then if he went higher, it was good, but then there was a middle place to avoid. So the melody at the end of that song goes like, I'll never let you down. And that high B was a good pingy spot for him. But going to like a G sharp would bring him into tenor belty land. So we avoided it. So it was all jumping up and down. And then I had to do all of that again in a different way for his understudy, who has a totally different voice. And that kind of flippy stuff didn't work for him. But he's a really high tenor, so if he's belting a high B flat, it feels great for him. And it sounds like a woman singing in that range because that's just where his voice lives. So his song, instead of going, I'll never let you down, goes, I'll never let you down. And it's a half step lower because that's where his voice at. So every actor who played that role had their own version based on one of those, too. And most people could fit into one of those, but some people needed their own versions. And anytime we did callbacks for that role, I also spent time with people individually, because you can't ask someone to come in knowing how to do that. It's its own thing. So that's, I mean, an extreme example, but very much tailoring a song and a melody to a person.
- [45:41]
B
Absolutely. No. That was a perfect, perfect answer. That's. Yeah. Because, I mean, I think people assume for something like a new musical, it's so many things are just set in stone, and it's really not set in stone until it opens. Right. And then even, as you said, when you're casting understudies, because some, you know, some roles like Michael, Dorothy thing are so particular and so tricky that you can't sort of be set in your ways with all of it. If someone good comes in, you got to be able to mold it to them. Otherwise you're leaving a lot of talent at the door. So it's great to hear that. You know, you guys really did take that time, and I'm sure it was very stressful. And I was like, okay, understudies on. We have whole new charts for this song, guys. Here we go.
- [46:23]
A
Yeah. And that was the only song we could do that with because that song is a standalone. It starts, it ends, it's one singer. There's some more singing that Dorothy does in the show in other songs, but I couldn't change those keys because those sequences are very complicated.
- [46:35]
B
Yeah.
- [46:35]
A
And you can't mess with it. In the band's visit, our lead actor Katrina Lenk likes everything about a whole step lower than anybody else wants it. So all those keys were there, and the understudy preferred it a whole step higher. But those songs are memorized by the musicians. You can't ask sub musicians to memorize multiple keys and then pull out a new one on the fly. So we kept those keys low on Broadway, but then we went on tour. I think our original Dean on tour kept the original keys, but then the next person, we moved everything up, and then all the musicians had to relearn it. But then we kept it there. But you have to be flexible. And part of my challenge is figuring out when to be open to changing the keys and when not to. And sometimes it's obvious and sometimes it's a little trickier because different keys feel differently for other reasons. I mean, there's a key in Suffs where we tried a song during the run in earlier, but in different keys. And the key it's in now is a very open key. And the key we were trying was a little bit darker. And sometimes that matters and sometimes it doesn't. I was like, let's try. Tried and find out, but it. It felt too dark. And two different actors tried it. A main actor and understudy, and we don't use it anymore.
- [47:56]
B
There's a moment in subs. I want to say it's act two. Don't quote me on this, but I think it's act two. Jen Colella hits a note in sort of a forando way. Do you know what I'm talking about?
- [48:10]
A
Yes, I do.
- [48:11]
B
Yes, yes, yes. I had a. I did a post around Tony time. Every year, around Tony time, I. I make a list of nominees in categories that don't exist. So I did one this year that was like most gay. Right. Agenda moment of the year. And one of them was Jen Colella's Fort Sando moment in Stuff. And I did. You know when that was? Being developed. That was going to be a gay rights moment. Or were you just like, let's just make it to the end of the day, everybody?
- [48:40]
A
I did not. But, I mean, we all knew that that note was amazing. It's always been amazing. Jen Clell is amazing, and she does that awesome thing. And I describe it as liquid gold, the way it feels. It was one of my favorite parts of doing a workshop. Every time we get to that note and, like, now that, like, that note happens in a song where there's a lot of fire and there's a lot going on, and I'm like, it's so cool. And it's not. You know, the writing of the show doesn't necessitate that particular performance, but Jen just nails it. Yeah, it's a great moment. I'm glad that people notice it, even with so much else going on.
- [49:13]
B
Oh, yeah. And I think it's because it's a very driven moment of plot of musical theater. So it's just on its own, it would just be impressive and like, almost like a party trick. But because it's coming from so much other stuff, it then just becomes iconic. A word I don't use very frequently, but it's. It mattered a great deal to me when I saw it. And because we all know that Jen can sing up to the rafters and she's like, what's hard? But still, when you can sing like that and still find ways to impress, it's like, well done, well done. Are there moments for you and stuff that should you go into the show tomorrow to conduct it, Is there a moment that you'd be looking forward to hearing again or a couple of moments.
- [49:58]
A
My favorite moments. So I have two moments I really love in Jen's song, this girl. The first one is not a listening moment, but a seeing moment. She makes a really funny face at the top of that song. And every day there's like a lip on the front of the stage, so I can't see the actors when they're that far back on the stage. But I lean back in my chair so I can see just because her face is amazing. And then there's a moment in that orchestration that's just. It's a moment I've always had a strong feeling about of what it should sound like. And when we got to this phase, I talked to Michael Sterbin. I said, I have a dream for this spot, and this is what I want. And then he did it. He like the feeling I was looking for the meaning of that moment. He really captured it. And I love it every day.
- [50:43]
B
That's wonderful.
- [50:44]
A
There's a really fun pizzicato string moment in Find a Way that Michael Stare Haven added. And it goes. And it's when Doris comes out and he made it up and it's just so funny. It's like. It's cute. We. We all love it. So it's a great moment.
- [51:00]
B
Pizzicato. Is that when it's being plucked or is that when it's short?
- [51:04]
A
It's plucked strings?
- [51:05]
B
That's okay. That's what I thought.
- [51:07]
A
And the flutes are playing it. And then I'm playing a pizzicato string sound also. So you have live pizzicato strings and synthesized. And the flutes.
- [51:15]
B
I was. I. My impulse, my old music theory was like, I think that's plucked. Because I also used to play the violin when I was a kid. I was like, I think that means plucked. But, like, ask just to be sure because you don't want to sound like an asshole later on. No, I love. I love a good flex string. It's just. I don't know, there's so many dynamics that an orchestra can have that I feel like sometimes gets lost on simpler ears. And I'm always. I have a group of. Let's call them, like, we, like, they are. We're all gay men who love musical theater, and we often, like, will play each other favorite orchestra moments in cast recordings. Whether it's orchestration, whether it's a moment of conducting or a dynamic. And like my. My friend Adam and I, we are very big nerds about percussion because it's not often, especially now, I don't know if you feel this way, but I feel like a lot of Broadway percussion now is a lot lighter and tighter than it used to be. If you listen to, like, 1960s, 1970s drums, it's like a little darker, it's a little deeper that, you know, the cymbals are crashing hard, like, because everyone's on cocaine. And so, like, we'll listen to Promises, Promises or Evita or, like the Lachus, A Wild Party. And we're just like, oh, God, this drummer is just going to town. And so things like. Like that string pluck for you like that. You're speaking my language right now.
- [52:30]
A
And I bet a lot of that with the different drum sounds is about. Some of it's probably about performance style, but some of it is also about the recording.
- [52:38]
B
Oh, yeah.
- [52:39]
A
The drummer's always in their own room, totally isolated. A lot of times when you see a Musical, you're not hearing any live sound. Like, you know, when we did Tootsie in Chicago out of town, it was in this big theater and the pit was uncovered and just the sound just like went up into the air and you just get a bigger sound because everything's all mushy together. And it's much more challenging for a sound designer. And it's challenging on a creative level as well, because you have to do all this acoustic balancing, but also that's making music. So, yeah, it's satisfying in that way.
- [53:08]
B
Yeah. I mean, speaking of Wild Party, I mean, that's something that Adam and I talk about all the time. You listen to the bootleg of the Broadway production, and then you listen to the actual cast recording. You're like, oh, no, the drum is very different. It's like very light, very tight on the recording. And then the theater, it's just like. I know. I tend to listen to a lot of soundboards from the 80s because that's where you can really get a good sense of the drummer. And I'm a nerd. I'm a nerd. What can I say? I. I present like a jock and I speak like a nerd. So, Andrew, what are you doing now? We were speaking about this before the recording, but for the listeners, what are you. We're catching you where exactly?
- [53:45]
A
I'm in Greenville, South Carolina, at the South Carolina New Play Festival, and I am music directing a workshop of all the World's a Stage, a new musical by Adam Guan.
- [53:56]
B
Ooh, Adam Guan. Adam Guan's partner, John Miscavige used to co host this podcast with me back in the day. Yeah, I'm gonna tell Adam I say hey. He actually would. He wouldn't know my name.
- [54:09]
A
I will tell him that.
- [54:11]
B
I feel very confident about that.
- [54:12]
A
Yeah.
- [54:13]
B
Anything else that you're working on for the rest of the year or for next year that we can look forward to?
- [54:21]
A
There will be at least one thing that I cannot talk about yet. I'm sorry to say that. Okay, be cool. I'm doing another show at nant National Alliance Musical Theater Festival. They do a festival every October. It's a really fun time. Those are the main things. I. I am trained to be an Alexander technique teacher, and it's really cool and it takes a lot of time. It's a 1600 hour training process, so I've got some musicals coming up. But also I spent a lot of time in class and I'm really psyched about it, and I love the Alexander technique. And it changed my life. And I'm excited to be able to do that with people.
- [55:02]
B
Phenomenal. That's wonderful. Well, thank you so much for coming on today. I had a blast. I hope you had a good time.
- [55:07]
A
I did. Thank you so much for having me. This is great.
- [55:09]
B
This is great. Where can people find you? If you want them to find you.
- [55:12]
A
Online, you can find me at my website, andreagrotti.com. you can find me on Instagram. I'm Andrea Grody there. You can find me at the Music Box Theater. If you come and see subs. If you come to the front where the conductor is, I will give you a band sticker until we run out of them.
- [55:29]
B
You heard it here first, guys. Go. Go to that. Go to that pit and just get that. Get that sticker. If you want to follow me, I am on Instagram only at Matt Koplik. Usual spelling. If you like the podcast, give us a nice 5 star rating or a little review. They help with the algorithm and my mom likes to read them, so keep making my mom happy, everyone. Andrea, we close out every episode with a Broadway diva. I put the audio in post to play us out as we head to our final commercial. And I'm going to make it a guest choice for you. Is there any Broadway actress you would like to play out your episode for you?
- [56:05]
A
Oh, let's do Emily Skinner.
- [56:10]
B
He's in Suss and she's speaking my language. The question is, do we do Emily Skinner doing Tunnel of Love in Sideshow, or do we do Emily Skinner Life with Harold in Full Monte? That is the question.
- [56:23]
A
I mean, I would say life with Harold.
- [56:25]
B
Okay, yeah, that's fine.
- [56:28]
A
You want to go Tunnel? You can't.
- [56:30]
B
No, Pride is over. We can't do Sideshow anymore. Pride is done. That was June. If this were like June 16th, I'd be like, no, we're doing Sideshow, sweetie. It's Pride. But no, it's the night I saw it that I saw stuff. I was the only one who applauded for Emily. And I got very angry that no one joined me. And I said, because there were a couple of NYU girls next to me. And they at intermission, they're like, I'm sorry, who was she? And I turned to them, I said, she did not go through what she went through on Sideshow for you to not know what she's done.
- [57:02]
A
She also, she has a bit when she comes out as Alpha Belmont. Carrie. Carrie Chapman. Cat introduces her, and she's standing in the box and she sort of waves her arms and looks at the mezzanine. And then if people don't applaud, she, like, makes a face as Alva and is like, ugh, yeah, back. And it's very funny.
- [57:22]
B
It's. I mean, she's a star. I was. I. My friend got very embarrassed because I was loudly doing it and no one was joining. He's like, you need to stop. I was like, I shall. I shall not.
- [57:32]
A
If you start a loud applause and no one joins. Like, people at a theater are waiting to clap, and when someone claps, they go, oh, I should clap too. So, like, sometimes we have super fans who come to the show, and sometimes there are moments that get applause because they like to clap there and then starts clapping.
- [57:47]
B
Yeah.
- [57:48]
A
I'm sorry that you were left alone.
- [57:49]
B
Well, tell those super fans that they're. It's their job now to make sure that Emily gets a standing ovation for the rest of August. I will tell them that that woman is a queen among queens. Okay, so we'll do Life with Harold. That's a. That's. That's a great choice. I love her on that album. Okay, so that's it, guys. Thank you so much for listening. Check us back next week when I come back from seeing Once Upon a Mattress, and we can hear my thoughts on that. And until then, have a great week. Take it away, Emily.
- [58:17]
A
By God, I love that man, but lately he's working too hard. I keep on telling him, howie, she'll take a few weeks in Maui, and we'll feel the breeze and sample the poi and go see Don Ha. And I'll say, oh, boy, how I love you, Harold. I hit the jackpot with Harry.
- [58:41]
B
Ye.
- [58:41]
A
Ye. Yeah. He's a gem. He's a beautiful.