Broadway Breakdown: Matt Reviews Betty Gilpin in OH MARY & URINETOWN at Encores

Host: Matt Koplik
Date: February 10, 2025

Episode Overview

In this episode, Matt Koplik delivers passionate, unfiltered reviews of two recent productions: Betty Gilpin’s turn in OH MARY on Broadway, following Cole Escola’s iconic run, and the new Encores! staging of Urinetown. With his trademark blend of theater geek depth, hot takes, and explicit honesty, Matt breaks down how recasting, audience response, and performance specifics shaped both experiences, while reflecting on Encores’ evolving mission.

OH MARY: Betty Gilpin Takes the Torch

[03:38] Introduction and Context

• Matt saw OH MARY both in its original Off-Broadway run (at Lortel Theatre in Feb. 2024 with Cole Escola) and its Broadway transfer (Aug. 2024).
• He recently returned to see Betty Gilpin, now starring as Mary Todd Lincoln, succeeding Escola—raising both hope and skepticism in the theater community.

[04:51] Casting: Can Anyone but Cole Escola Do It?

• “A lot of people were concerned about whether the play would still hold up if Cole Escola, the playwright, was no longer playing the lead role of Mary Todd Lincoln. And it threw a lot of people, myself included, when [Betty Gilpin] was announced.”
• Matt was only familiar with Gilpin from TV/film and questioned if she could embody the "freak" factor essential to Mary Todd Lincoln’s role.

[07:28] Audiences: Laughter of Shock vs. Recognition

• Broadway audience: “very female heavy… not used to this kind of humor… laughs of shock.”
• Off-Broadway: “mostly gay audience… laugh of recognition.”

[08:23] Verdict: Betty Gilpin is "Phenomenally Good"

• “Betty Gilpin as Mary Todd Lincoln is phenomenally good. Is she as good as Cole? She’s very different from Cole.”
• “If Cole Escola is performing Charles Busch, Betty Gilpin is performing John Waters.”
  Different camps of camp—but both work.

[10:48] What Makes Gilpin’s Performance Unique

• Betty’s take is “a heightened, melodramatic version of a woman,” minus the gender-bending meta layer of Escola’s drag.
• “When her character would get insulted, a lot of audiences took it to heart… it made Mary’s journey all the more exciting for them when it all kind of came to fruition at the end.”

[12:25] The Play Holds Up—With or Without Cole

• “It is legitimately a well structured play. Everything connects. It all makes sense.”
• “You can have other people play these roles and it can still work… That was very exciting to me.”

[13:20] Supporting Cast Highlights

• Bianca Lee (“Louise”): “Really come into her own… found new jokes, commanding the stage.”
• Tony Mokt (Abe’s “butt boy”): “Still doing very wonderful dry work.”
• Chris Renfro (John Wilkes Booth): “A little less bland leading man than James Scully—but he has nailed the character quickly.”
• Philip James Brannon (Abraham): Preferred over Conrad Ricamora—“found all these small moments… wasn’t vindictive, but he was an asshole, and it worked very nicely.”

[16:05] Betty Gilpin’s Artistic Choices

• “She is going balls to the walls the entire 80 minutes… silly, campy, finds ways to alter her voice and posture.”
• “She plays it far bigger and far more straight. And by straight, I mean earnest.”
• “Her Mary is crazy, but it all makes sense to her.”
  • Gilpin described her character as “Veruca Salt meets Shirley Temple with a ketamine addiction and Gollum,” to which Matt adds, “Roger the Alien.”

[17:02] Notable Quote

• “[Gilpin’s performance] is an incredibly violently brave performance.” (16:50)

[17:42] Recommendation & Upcoming Casting

• “If you have a chance to see Betty Gilpin in Oh Mary before she leaves, I do highly recommend it.”
• Titus Burgess is coming in next—Matt is curious and optimistic.

[~18:00]

“If you have any other specific questions about her performance in the show, I highly recommend you join the Discord Channel.”

URINETOWN at Encores!: Comedy, Casting, and the Transfer Question

[17:19] Urinetown Background and Encores’ Mission

• Originated at the Fringe, transferred to Off-Broadway (2001), then Broadway just after 9/11.
• Noted for winning Best Book/Score, but losing Best Musical at the Tonys—an “admirable writing” vs. “overall impact” scenario.

[18:59] Is Encores Losing Its Soul?

• Matt laments Encores’ shift post-COVID: “Ever since Encores came back… the shows that they've picked… have been a lot more recent and a lot more foolproof.”
• The new goal seems to be, “Is this show the show that's going to transfer?” — a ton of pressure for a short rehearsal process.

[23:02] Matt’s Approach: Hoping for a Good Time (Not a Broadway Transfer)

• “I did not go into Urinetown going like, okay, are you going to be great? Are you going to transfer? ... I do go in hoping to have a very nice time.”

[24:43] What Makes Urinetown Tick?

• “It is a musical that calls out all of the tropes… while adhering to absolutely all of them.”
• “Incredibly difficult to do well.” Needs precise casting: “Every character… is an archetype, but you want to cast it with people who… could play a traditional archetype, but there's like one chromosome off.”
• “Urinetown is like the weird meta literary cousin of these musicals… the odd black sheep of the family.”

[26:55] Review: This Production Is “Perfectly Okay”

• “It's fine. It's not terrible, it's not amazing... perfectly pleasant, which is not a ringing endorsement enough for something to transfer…”

[29:05] Standout Performers

• Tiffany Mann (covering for Keala Settle as Pennywise):
  • “Incredibly strong… her voice is wonderful… fully belting Friday night. Nancy Opal realness you would hope for with that role.”
• Greg Hildreth (Officer Lockstock):
  • “Plays it incredibly straight, which is what works… very light compared to Jeff McCarthy’s self-serious lockstock… a lot of fun and landed very well.”
• Stephanie Styles (Hope Cladwell):
  • “Very funny… channeling Jennifer Laura Thompson’s energy (the original Hope)… not a perfect fit vocally, but she’s impressive—beautiful voice, just a bit low for her break.”

[32:11] Vocal Casting: The Good, the Bland, and the Tangled

• “Most of the men in the ensemble are tenors… they have beautiful voices, but they are light, poppier sounds and they are higher than the score writes for.”
• “There were a lot of numbers that did not have vocal heft... Run, Freedom Run really has to sail… and a lot of final buttons… just sort of landed… with a soft place to land.”

[34:20] Rainn Wilson (Caldwell B. Cladwell): Underwhelmed

• “Doesn’t make much of an impression… not a bad take… just not super comfortable on the stage, or at least on the musical theater stage.”

[36:10] Production Issues: Pacing and Comedy

• “There was a lot of air in this production… things were not moving along at a steady clip... In Urinetown, you can't languish in each laugh, you have to keep going. If you keep waiting, the comedy's gonna die.”
• “Everything is very soft in this production.”

[37:41] Jordan Fisher (Bobby Strong): Thin Vocals, Thin Comedy

• “Jordan Fisher’s voice is a pop sound, and he doesn't have a heft in it that really lends Bobby's music to sail.”
• “He chooses to play everything incredibly earnest… but you do have to have a level of absurdity to your earnestness.”
• “He absolutely does nail Run, Freedom, Run, which is perhaps the most important number if you're gonna play Bobby Strong.”
• “He’s not a particularly funny actor… Stephanie, comedically speaking, is sort of mopping the floor with him.” (38:57)

[41:16] Little Sally Casting: A Big Misstep

• “Having the director cast Little Sally as an actual child… is a mistake… unless you are truly a prodigy, you don’t have an innate sense of comedic timing… the rhythm and rapport… doesn’t exist in this production.”

[43:03] Production Philosophy: Political Messaging Over Comedy?

• “The production team was more interested in the political metaphors of this musical… than in the actual comedy.”
• “Those messages are at the center of a wild romp… and the cynicism… only gets away with if you lead and lean on the comedy.”
• “It could be funnier, it could be tighter, it could be smarter and a little more cynical.”

[45:49] Final Assessment: Enjoyable But Dispensable

• “This Urinetown is perfectly fine. If you see it, I’m sure you’ll enjoy it. Just okay. If you miss it, it’s also kind of missable.”
• “We can let this be the nice thing that happened for two weeks, and then we can move on and we can get our hopes up for Love Life.” (46:57)

Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments

• "It’s always fascinating when people are like, oh, Matt’s hot takes—his unpopular opinions. Sometimes I’m like, I wasn’t aware it was that unpopular…sometimes you gotta be the special one." (04:43, on being the “anomaly” in theater opinions)
• "Her Mary is crazy, but it all makes sense to her." (16:40, describing Betty Gilpin’s approach)
• "Urinetown is like the weird, meta literary cousin of these musicals… black sheep of the family." (25:51)
• "It is about a 10 day rehearsal process... By the time a Broadway show ends their rehearsal process and finishes tech, you could have done four Encores shows." (20:30, on the unique pressures of Encores)
• "This Urinetown is perfectly fine... Just okay. If you miss it, it's also kind of missable." (45:50)
• "We can let this be the nice thing that happened for two weeks, and then we can move on and get our hopes up for Love Life." (46:57)

Key Timestamps

• 03:38 – Recap of recent/pending episodes and intro to reviews
• 04:51 – On recasting Mary Todd Lincoln in OH MARY
• 08:23 – Betty Gilpin in the role: strengths, differences, audience response
• 13:20-15:54 – Supporting cast reviews in OH MARY
• 17:19 – Transition to Urinetown and history of the show
• 18:59 – Encores philosophy: then vs. now
• 24:43 – What is Urinetown’s aesthetic and comedy?
• 26:55 – Overall verdict on the new Encores Urinetown
• 29:05 – Cast highlights (Tiffany Mann, Greg Hildreth, Stephanie Styles)
• 36:10 – Directing issues & pacing in Urinetown
• 38:57 – Jordan Fisher’s performance, “comically mopped” by Stephanie Styles
• 43:03 – Political messaging vs. comedy in the production
• 45:49 – Final thoughts on the production and whether it should transfer

Episode Flow & Tone

Matt brings intense passion and deep knowledge, offering not just reviews but insights into casting, audience psychology, and the shifting identity of NYC theater institutions. His language is explicit, deeply opinionated (“gotta play the dick, but you also still need to be funny”), and peppered with sharp asides that keep the discussion engaging for hard-core theater fans. Each critique is balanced with theater geek detail and broader reflections, making even hot takes feel reasoned—and unfailingly entertaining.

For More

• Further questions, comments, or hot theater takes?
  Join the Broadway Breakdown Discord (link in episode description).
• Upcoming episodes:
  • BroadwayCon live episode with Matt and guest Gray Henson
  • Reviews of Redwood, deep dives on The Wiz movie, and Angels in America