Matt Reviews CULT OF LOVE and EUREKA DAY

Summary

Broadway Breakdown: Matt Reviews "Cult of Love" and "Eureka Day"

Episode Release Date: December 23, 2024

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Introduction

In this bonus episode of Broadway Breakdown, host Matt Koplik delves into two notable Broadway productions from the 2024-2025 season: "Cult of Love" by Second Stage Theatre and "Eureka Day" at Manhattan Theatre Club. Matt, known for his passionate and candid take on theatre, provides in-depth reviews, comparing the strengths and weaknesses of each play while exploring the themes and performances that make them stand out.

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Review of "Cult of Love"

Production Details:

• Theatre: Second Stage Theatre at the Hayes Theatre
• Director: Trip Coleman
• Playwright: Leslie Hedlund
• Notable Cast: Mayor Winningham, Shailene Woodley (Diana), Barbie Ferreira, Chris Lowell, Zachary Quinto

Plot Overview: "Cult of Love" centers around the Doll family, whose foundation is deeply rooted in Christianity. The family dynamics become strained as each adult grapples with personal issues:

• Diana (Shailene Woodley): The only child steadfast in her faith, struggling with undiagnosed Alzheimer's and mental health issues, leading her to believe she's a prophet.
• Mark (Zachary Quinto): The eldest son who abandons the priesthood for a law career, married to Rachel (Molly Bernard), a Jewish woman who converted to Christianity.
• Evie (Rebecca Henderson): A lesbian daughter recently married to Pippa (Roberta Colindress), navigating her place within the religious family.
• Johnny (Christopher Sears): The youngest child, a recovering heroin addict, whose arrival with his sponsor Lauren (Lauren Y. Ferguson) triggers familial tensions.

Themes and Analysis: Matt highlights "Cult of Love" as a family drama that uses religion as a backdrop to explore deeper issues such as mental health, sexuality, and generational conflicts. The play adeptly portrays how music serves as both a bonding agent and a manipulative tool within the family ("[10:10] Matt Koplik: Music kind of comes and forces them to stop talking about it").

Notable Quote:

"What is family but a cult of love?" – Matt Koplik at [15:02]

Performance Insights: Shailene Woodley's portrayal of Diana is particularly lauded for capturing the complexity of a woman battling mental illness while maintaining her unwavering faith. Matt notes, "Diana just go, no. And just like get up and like fucking lose it and just shut it" ([42:08]).

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Review of "Eureka Day"

Production Details:

• Theatre: Manhattan Theatre Club at the Friedman Theatre
• Director: Ana de Shapiro
• Playwright: Jonathan Spector
• Notable Cast: Bill Irwin (Principal), Jessica Hecht (Suzanne), Amber Gray (Karina), Tom Middleditch (Eli), Chelsea Yukura Kurtz (Mako)

Plot Overview: Set in 2018 California, "Eureka Day" unfolds within a progressive private elementary school facing a mumps outbreak. The administrative board, composed of diverse parents, must navigate the crisis amidst differing opinions on vaccination mandates. Jessica Hecht's character, Suzanne, emerges as a vehement anti-vaxxer, challenging the board's consensus-driven approach.

Themes and Analysis: Matt describes "Eureka Day" as a satirical comedy that tackles public health, consensus decision-making, and information overload. The play captures the fragmented communication and polarized viewpoints that hinder effective problem-solving ("[22:44] Matt Koplik: People want to think that things are either far more complicated than they are, or far more simple than they are").

Notable Quote:

"Everyone waits till they can speak. And when that happens in conversations, you're not actually having a conversation." – Matt Koplik at [11:27]

Performance Insights: Jessica Hecht's Suzanne is portrayed as a manipulative character, adept at steering conversations to her advantage, embodying the challenges of dealing with entrenched viewpoints. Matt observes, "Suzanne just go, no. ... And you watch her work the room" ([42:31]).

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Comparative Analysis

Genre and Tone: Both plays are satirical comedies but differ in their tone and emotional weight:

• "Cult of Love": Utilizes darker humor and presents a more dynamic and tension-filled narrative.
• "Eureka Day": Features lighter humor with emotional depth, focusing on conversation dynamics and societal parallels.

Structural Strengths:

• "Cult of Love" boasts a more structured arc and complex characters, making its family drama compelling and engaging.
• "Eureka Day" excels in sparking conversation and reflection on contemporary issues, though it maintains a relatively calmer pace.

Thematic Execution:

• "Cult of Love" delves into the intricacies of family and religion, showcasing the impact of mental health on familial relationships.
• "Eureka Day" mirrors modern societal debates on public health and the challenges of consensus-building in crisis situations.

Notable Comparative Quote:

"Cult of Love has a bit more tension... whereas Eureka Day makes more interesting conversation topics." – Matt Koplik at [33:14]

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Insights and Conclusions

Matt praises both plays for their strong acting ensembles and thought-provoking themes. He appreciates "Cult of Love" for its structural integrity and dynamic character development, while "Eureka Day" is commended for its ability to initiate meaningful discussions on pressing societal issues. Matt concludes that both plays are worthseeing, each offering unique perspectives on human interactions and societal challenges.

Final Thoughts:

"Cult of Love is a more genuinely better structured play... Eureka Day has more conversation starters." – Matt Koplik at [44:42]

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Notable Quotes with Timestamps

• Matt Koplik [15:02]: "What is family but a cult of love?"
• Matt Koplik [11:27]: "Everyone waits till they can speak. And when that happens in conversations, you're not actually having a conversation."
• Matt Koplik [33:14]: "Cult of Love has a bit more tension... whereas Eureka Day makes more interesting conversation topics."
• Matt Koplik [44:42]: "Cult of Love is ultimately the stronger play."

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Conclusion

This episode of Broadway Breakdown offers a comprehensive analysis of two significant Broadway productions, highlighting their thematic depths, character complexities, and societal relevance. Matt Koplik's passionate and insightful commentary provides listeners with a nuanced understanding of "Cult of Love" and "Eureka Day", making it a valuable resource for theatre enthusiasts seeking to deepen their appreciation of contemporary Broadway plays.

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For more detailed discussions and rankings of Broadway shows, stay tuned for the upcoming wrap-up episode scheduled for early January.

Transcript

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[Ariana Grande]

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[Billy]

But we have a great dramatic finish.

[Ariana Grande]

Oh, I'm sure you do, but Mr. Granson.

[Matt Koplik]

Ah, hit it.

[Billy]

Broadway. Broadway. We've missed it. So we're leaving soon and taking June to star her in a show, Bright Lights, White light with a Metro dance. The train is late, so while we wait, we're gonna do a little dance.

[Matt Koplik]

Hello all you theatre lovers, both out and proud on the DL. And welcome back to Broadway Breakdown, a podcast discussing the history legacy of American Theatre's most exclusive address, Broadway. I'm your host, Matt Koplik, the least famous and most opinionated of all the Broadway podcast hosts. And we have a little bonus episode today before our final scheduled Thursday episode before the end of the year. We have two reviews that we have to do.

We saw Cult of Love with Second.

Stage Theatre and we saw Eureka Day at Manhattan Theatre Club. And that is the end of 2024.

Of the 2024, 2025 season.

Season. All very exciting stoof. So strap in. We'll talk about both of those. The next episode after this one will.

Be a discussion of the season so far.

My rankings of all the Broadway entries of this season so far, as well.

As what I personally would nominate for.

Tony's if I could not. My predictions, we're not going to start predictions until January and then go on from there.

And I may include other things just.

From the calendar year.

Some people on the Discord Channel asked if if I would do sort of a ranking roundup of everything in 2024 or my favorites of 2024 and TBD on that.

It's a lot of thinking, a lot.

Of hemming and hawing. So we'll see if you haven't joined.

The Discord Channel, make sure to do so.

The link will be in the description.

For this episode, but let's just get into it, shall we?

I'm probably going to go a little.

Bit back and forth with these two.

Plays because they're actually, they're both kind of similar and they have, they have similar strengths and similar weaknesses. And then I think both shows could.

Sort of borrow a little bit from the other one.

Cult of Love, as I said, it's.

Second Stage Theater, currently at the Hayes Theater, is directed by Trip Coleman, written by Leslie Hedlund. If you don't know who she is. She wrote the play Bachelorette that was then turned into the movie Bachelorette with.

Kirsten Dunst and Isla Fisher, Lizzy Kaplan, Rebel Wilson, a bunch of amazing people in that one. And then she's written a couple other plays.

I think Bachelorette was part of a series she was doing about the seven deadly sins.

And then she went into film and tv. She wrote Sleeping with Other People. She wrote on Russian Doll. She's just been around. I actually didn't realize this, but she's.

Been a guest a couple of times on Blank Check with Griffin and David.

A podcast that I enjoy frequently.

And she was a fun guest recently.

On the David lynch series.

So she wrote this and it stars.

Mayor Winningham and Shailene Woodley. Barbie Ferreira, I think is how you say your last name. Yep.

Chris Lowell, Zachary Quinto.

Bunch of different people. Christopher Sears. And it centers around a family at Christmas time. And it is a family that it's the doll family. D A H L A lot of play on words there for like a doll house, things like that. It's a family that centers around Religion, for sure. They're the roots of this family's foundation are in religion, Christianity specifically. And we are catching them.

The kids are all grown up, and.

Most of them are married and have.

Had their own baggage and.

And some of them have left their.

Religion, the church that their family belonged.

To, and sort of have gone into atheism or agnosticism, stuff like that. But one child in the family has absolutely stuck with it.

That's Shailene Woodley's character, Diana, and her.

Husband, played by Chris Lowell. And the parents still are also very religious, and there's just a lot of stuff simmering. You know, the dad, played by David Rausch, I think his name was Bill. Bill has Alzheimer's, undiagnosed Alzheimer's, because Mayor.

Whittingham, their mother Virginia, won't take him.

To a doctor to get a brain scan. But he's showing all the signs, and they, you know, the. The older children want to take him to a doctor, get him evaluated. She won't do it, but she also kind of doesn't want to talk about it. There's a lot of, like, we don't talk about the big stuff.

One of the daughters, played by Rebecca Henderson, Evie. She is married to Pippa, played by.

Roberta Calendres, who some of you might.

Remember from Fun Home, and they are just recently married.

And thus this is the first.

First holiday that Pippa has been allowed.

To stay at the house for, which is a whole to do, especially, again, because this family is religious. Zachary Quento plays Mark. He is the oldest son, and he.

Was studying to be a priest, but.

Then left that to go to law school.

And he's been clerking with a Supreme Court justice. He is married to Molly Bernard, Rachel.

Rachel is Jewish, but she left the.

Jewish faith and converted to Christianity so she could marry Mark.

And they're sort of at a crossroads. There is, as I said, Diana, played.

By Shailene Woodley, who is the only.

One who's really still religious and conservative. She is married to James, who was.

A pastor, still is a pastor, but.

He has recently left his church, and.

They are expecting their second baby.

It's like super back to back. And we learn more about sort of their baggage and what's going on with Diana.

I guess I should say this now.

Spoiler alerts. If you're planning to see Cult of Love and maybe want to skip this. And then we have the final child, which is Johnny, played by Christopher Sears.

And Johnny hasn't shown up yet. When the play begins, everyone's Waiting for him.

It's like 9 o'clock at night and.

They still haven't eaten dinner because they.

Insist on waiting for Johnny to show up so they can all eat, you.

Know, Christmas dinner together as a family.

Or Christmas Eve dinner together as a family. So everyone's drinking, everyone's starving. So already, like, things get a little intense.

And when Johnny does show up, he.

Shows up with a girl named Lauren, who nobody knows.

Turns out that Johnny has met Lauren in rehab because Johnny is a heroin.

Addict, has been in and out of rehab a few times over the last couple of years, seems to be doing.

Better now, if a little, you know.

Maybe flighty, I guess. And Lauren is his. They are each other's sponsors, I think is how they described it. Or at the very least, Johnny is her sponsor and. No, Johnny is her sponsor. And he brings her to his family's Christmas because she has nowhere to go and she's still in recovery. Lauren comes from New York City and has basically been doing drugs since she was 14. And she seems pretty centered, I will say that for someone who is, you know, freshly out of rehab. But apparently she's been in rehab a couple of times, so she's got at.

Least some clarity about her situation and her addiction.

So that's the cast of characters. What exactly happens in the play is really just the conflicts between everyone. You know, there's not a major, you.

Know, goal that we're driving towards other.

Than waiting for Johnny, which happens, I.

Want to say, about an hour in.

Maybe 50 minutes in, it was hard to tell. The whole play is about an hour.

And 45 with no intermission.

And again takes place over the course.

Of about, let's say, 12 hours, 12ish hours.

And things start to get pretty heated immediately.

One of the things that bonds this family is music.

They sing a lot of church songs.

And some of them are bops, I won't lie.

And everyone in the family sings.

Some of the members play instruments. Mayor Winningham plays an instrument. The dad plays piano.

Zachary Quinto, I think, plays piano or guitar. And then Johnny definitely plays guitar. And there's usually a tambourine of some sort. And it's sort of this meant to.

Sort of be this, like, blanket, this.

Medicine that calms everyone when fighting starts to happen. But it also kind of becomes a bit of a sedative when people have.

Genuine issues that they want to discuss.

Music kind of comes and forces them.

To stop talking about it. And by the time the song is over, people tend to be in a happier mood because Music tends to have that effect, you know, when you're anxious and you want to listen to calming music or you need to sort of.

Have a anxious dance party, like Meredith.

And Christina and Grey's Anatomy. Just got to dance it out.

Music can have that effect on you.

It's very chemical, right.

It's not. Not always analytical. Not for most of us, anyway. And so it's fascinating watching in the play whenever things really start to come.

To a head, when music comes in.

And sort of cuts through that tension.

And when it's used almost like not.

A weapon, but manipulation, I guess.

I was talking to a friend about.

This because the thing about Eureka Day.

And Cult of Love, and I'll get a little into the details of Eureka.

Day as well, is we've come to.

The point in humanity, I guess, and.

Lord knows I don't study this academically or professionally. So take what I say with a grain of salt, just like my own observations. But I feel like we have gotten.

To the point where no one necessarily listens. Everyone waits till they can speak.

And when that happens in conversations, you're not actually having a conversation. You're not learning.

Nobody wants to learn anymore. Everyone wants to teach. Everyone wants to have the right answer and give the right answer, so everyone.

Else can feel and think what they feel and think. Because in many ways, every just wants.

Life to be simpler.

Nobody wants complication. We all want equilibrium. It's just that some people, everyone has different viewpoints of what gets us to equilibrium.

Some people, like Shailene Woodley's character, thinks that, you know, equilibrium comes from religion. It comes from the Lord, from Christ, and just putting all of your faith into that and all of your love into that.

What we eventually learn about Shailene Woodley's.

Character, Diana, is that she has a mental problem.

You know, she suffers from depression, but.

She also suffers from these psychotic episodes. She has a chemical imbalance in her brain that she has medication for but.

Refuses to take since she's been pregnant. And because of that, she gets worse.

And now starts to think that she's a prophet.

Part of the reason why her husband, Chris Lowell James Bennett, why he had.

To leave the church that he was pastor of, is because Diana was basically having episodes in church. As I said, she was refusing to take her medication. And she would start getting up and.

She would start preaching and speaking nonsense and a lot of hateful stuff, too.

Genuinely believing that the Lord was channeling.

Her and was using her as a vessel for his.

For his views, for his speech and.

It was bothering everyone in their church.

And he had to leave. And so now they're starting their own church where she is claiming to be a prophet. And her whole family, even, you know, her parents don't necessarily believe that this is the case. But her parents are very indulgent of her.

And her parents are, you know, they.

Don'T like confrontation, they don't like uncomfortable stuff.

So they say a lot of yes, dear, you know, and yes, and to.

Whatever their children are saying, they don't.

Want confrontation, they don't want conflict.

And since Diana and her husband are.

Now living with them, we find out.

They are really sort of coddling her and making it even worse.

And this eventually blows up into a major meltdown for Diana towards the end of the play, I guess in the.

Third act of the play.

What that entails I won't say, just because it is very shocking. And if you do go see it, I don't want you to have that spoiled for you because it's it. There aren't a lot of genuine surprises in this play of Cult of Love. It's not really about that, as I said, this is really more a piece about a specific theme through the microcosm.

I guess is the right word of this family. And watching their relations to each other and their dynamics with each other more.

So than religion, literally the theme of family. The title of Cult of Love for me sort of identifies the play about being about family. You know, what is family but a cult of love? And even in a positive way, it's still kind of that, right? You, you channel yourself into those memories.

Of being protected by your parents or being loved by your parents. When you were sick, they took care of you, took you to the movies.

No, made you dinner, clothed. You know, this is just sort of basic parental principles, you know. And of course there are so many horror stories of parents, but just let's say things go mostly by the books. You have all of those connections to them, of the person who held you and fed you and clothed you and.

Took care of you and taught you and supposedly gave you all of this love and affection, and you in turn have love for them. Part of it is conditional of how you were treated. Part of it is also just biological.

You share this, you know, chemical biological connection with someone.

And on top of that, when it becomes a larger family than just you and your parents, when you have siblings.

And it's a lot of you, it.

Can feel like a close knit group. And what we learn about the dolls.

Is that were a very Close knit.

Group when they were.

When the kids were younger. It's very much giving the family and parenthood, whatever their names are. Let me look that up for a second. You'll hear this at some point during the episode. Uncomfortable way.

But the discussion of the TV show.

Parenthood, of which I watched and I did not say much about it in.

The episode, the Braverman, the great Braverman.

Families, something that always bothered me about.

That TV show and I did enjoy it immensely.

But one thing that I really disliked about it was how that family did treat itself like a cult. And anyone who dared to date anyone in this family or become friends with anyone in this family had to sort of go through this really intense scrutiny from everyone.

They had to pass a test essentially.

Like, oh, if you're going to be part of this group, you got to, you know, pass muster with all of us.

And it's like, well, who the fuck are any of you, right? What makes you so incredible other than.

The fact that you all love each other? And if someone in this family is.

Opening up their heart to someone outside, you give them a chance, you give them support. But no, that's never how it was with the Bravermans.

It was always intense discrimination until proven otherwise. And it reminds me a lot of the dolls of, you know, people who are dating anyone of the children go through the same rigmarole as anybody else with certain leniencies based on tradition, traditionalism, conservatism. You know, they. I would imagine that James Bennett, Diana's.

Husband, because he was Christian and a pastor, probably got more favorable treatment when.

They dated and probably was included in.

A lot more family activities. They dated and then when they married.

Of course, just like got, you know, came right on in and Rachel, Molly, Bernard, Zachary Quinto, his character's wife, being Jewish, obviously, that sort of put her at a distance from them for a while.

And then even when she converted, it still wasn't quite enough. And then when they got married, that helped.

But it really wasn't until Evie, the.

Lesbian daughter, started being with her future wife.

Pippa is when, you know, people started.

Easing up on Rachel. I won't go too far into this.

But in my family, we have two family members who were not very nice to new women in the family and.

Only got nicer when there became a.

New woman dating someone in the family. So whoever was the last victim became.

Sort of an ally while there was.

A new victim and so on and so forth.

The new victim became a new ally when there became a new victim.

And it sort of feels that way with the. With the spouses of the doll children. Who knows the exact order? Rachel has been married to Mark, or.

At least with Mark for 10 years.

And yet she still has a bit of conflict with this family. She's not as included as she should be. And there's absolutely a ton tier system of who gets preferential treatment. They talk about this when they're trying.

To figure out the sleeping arrangements because Johnny's coming and Johnny is clearly a.

Favorite child and Diana's a favorite child. Mark having left Christianity and Evie being.

A lesbian has made things very difficult for their parents. But they try to love them no matter what. But loving someone is loving who they are.

And accepting each other for being different means you have to hear each other out and come to a middle agreement, have some compromise.

No one really compromises as much anymore these days. Which actually brings us into Eureka Day, which is at Manhattan Theatre Club at the Friedman Theatre and just recently opened.

Written by Jonathan Spector, who is a.

Playwright I never really heard of before. This is his Broadway debut.

I believe the show premiered in London.

Earlier as well as maybe in Berkeley.

Two years ago, three years ago.

Directed by Ana de Shapiro.

Most of you know her from August.

Osage county and the Minutes.

And did she direct Linda Vesta? No, she didn't direct Lynda Vesta, but she directed this Is Our Youth, the Motherfucker with the Hat, a play that I really liked more recently, Devil Wears Prada, Chicago, which not anymore, now that it's in London. She's the director and it stars Bill.

Irwin, Jessica Hecht, Amber Gray, Thomas Middleditch.

An actress I never heard of, Chelsea Yukura Kurtz. If anyone knows who she is, please.

Let me know in the Discord Channel.

And Eureka Day takes place in 2018.

In California at a private elementary school.

And follows the administrative board, where Bill Irwin, I believe, is the principal. Don and Jessica Hecht is Suzanne, a.

Parent, and Tom Middleditch is Eli, a parent.

Chelsea is Mako, and Amber Gray is Karina.

They're all parents of children in school. Amber Gray is the newest member of the board. Her son has just started at Eureka Day.

So she's kind of figuring out how everything works there as well as on the board. And it started, we find out Yurga Day started as very small sort of independent alternative school and has only just grown from there. And it's very inclusive and it's very progressive. They talk about in the administrative board.

They vote by consensus. It's never a majority.

Everyone has to agree.

Otherwise they can't move on.

And one of the major things is.

That there is no mandate at Eureka Day for vaccination.

Ha ha. How topical. And this isn't really important until there.

Is a mumps outbreak.

And the board of Health has required.

Eureka Day shut down until all the.

Kids are quarantined and it's been confined. And they are figuring out what to.

Do because they need to reopen the school eventually because they won't ever get herd immunity.

And, you know, one of the kids has gotten mumps and is in the hospital.

And there are so many parents they find out who are refusing to vaccinate their children.

And including Jessica Hecht's Suzanne. She is a non vaccinated, a non vaxxer parent. And you're watching this group try to navigate how to move forward, how to, you know, make a difference, how to fix the problem while having everyone be happy. And you quickly learn that's not gonna happen. You know, if they. There's so much talk about, you know, ancient man. This is like one of the things they always talk about in Yurgite. Like, oh, in. In the Middle Ages, people didn't need.

Vaccinations, and we survived.

And it's like, yes.

But people tended to live until 35.

And the only reason that we were able to get through certain plagues was.

Learning about immunity through certain things.

For example, smallpox. One of the earliest forms of vaccination was discovering that milkmaids were immune to smallpox. And it was because they would get.

These warts on their hands from milking cows. And a doctor took pus from those.

Warts, inserted it into a child, and found that the child had immunity to smallpox. And they started doing that with plenty of people, you know, in the village and then all over the world. And that eventually led to an immunity to smallpox. And in this play, you're watching intelligent.

People talk themselves in circles, trying to ultimately convince everyone else that they're right.

Specifically Jessica Hecht's Suzanne, who is what I call a granola Karen. And I bring this up in relation to Cult of Love because as I said in Cult of Love, it's a lot of not actually accepting and not actually listening. It's all just talking.

And everyone has an opinion, and everyone.

Thinks that they're right. And I mean, in the very first.

Scene of Eureka Day, they're talking about.

Verbiage for a thing, and try as.

They'Re about to send out a letter.

About something, and they are trying to.

Word it in a way so that.

Way no one is offended. Oh, it's like a drop down menu.

For ethnicity, for, I guess, people applying to the school.

Maybe that's what it was. And they're trying to have it be.

As inclusive as possible, cover all of.

Their bases, and again, not offend anyone.

And in doing so, they are talking.

A thousand words a minute that are just word salad that don't mean anything. The thing you'll always hear in Eureka Day is, I totally hear you, but. Or you're absolutely, totally right, but.

And again, it is just everyone trying to come from their own perspective and.

Get the group to see it their way.

And not only see it their way, but with Jessica Hecht, Suzanne do it their way. You watch Suzanne manipulate the room each time there's a conversation by lightly controlling it. She will interrupt and apologize for interrupting while she continues to talk with the lightest of tones and compliment and indulge you and say, I think this is what you mean, and then say her own thing, even if it isn't what you mean, and then compliment you for having such a wonderful opinion. And by the end of the conversation, there will be a consensus on something that, as it just turns out, happens to be what Suzanne wants. And those who had opposition kind of forgot what their oppositions were or have.

Decided it doesn't matter that much since.

They seem to be in the minority. And that starts to flip as the mumps outbreak happens and we realize that.

The board is a little more divided than they thought. And it seems rather even at first.

But then it starts to lean more.

Towards pro vaccination and Hecht's Suzanne is not having it. And she keeps trying to speak on.

Open conversation and understanding and reaching a middle ground while never actually coming to the middle ground. She is okay on verbiage for a.

Letter that allows both sides to speak.

But she is not okay about any kind of leniency on her part.

Which is just a double standard, right? And one of the characters, I think.

It'S Meiko Chelsea, Yukura Kurtz's character says.

Like, you know, you don't know if you're right.

You're trying to go with your instinct.

And everyone's just trying to do the best they can. And she's like, we've gotten it so.

Wrong in the past all the time. Humanity has always gotten it wrong in the past.

Plastic and charred food and the things.

We'Ve exposed ourselves to in the past that have given us cancer, that have given us hepatitis.

And we're trying to use all the information that we have to do Better.

But there's so much information out there now and a lot of that information is wrong. And you don't necessarily always know who to trust. And similar to cult of love, talking.

About how Diana and her parents try.

To simplify everything with, well, Jesus is love and I love Jesus and I put all my faith in him. And the Bible says this.

Meanwhile, you could argue Evie and Mark are so now anti that that anything.

Associated with that is just evil and.

Wrong because the church and the Bible go against Evie's life and, and, and what she loves and who she loves and you know, Mark's marriage with Rachel and all of that and with Eureka Day, it's, well, the science that I.

Trust is what I believe because it's what's simpler. And it's simpler to just say Big Pharma is all a lie and they.

Are pushing a, an agenda on you. And I don't think any of us.

Can sit here and say that Big.

Pharma is good intentioned or innocent. But to say that there's a conspiracy going around trying to turn you into a robot to put, you know, to plant a chip in you is all.

Kinds of, let's use the word paranoid because it is a simplistic viewpoint. It's.

People want to think that things are.

Either far more complicated than they are, are far more simple than they are.

And what differentiates between the two is.

Just what's convenient to whatever person.

You know, sexuality is, you know, much.

More complicated and multifaceted.

But you know, health and medicine is just really so simple.

Or health and medicine is very complicated. But gender, oh my God, that's so black and white.

Everyone has their decisions of what is just stone cold fact. And that's the double edged sword of.

Having so much information in the world, right? And exposing ourselves to so many people's opinions. How easily influenced we can all be.

Be when I tell you that when the Gypsy reviews came out and I.

Posted mine on Instagram as well as.

My episode on the podcast, like the.

Night before, I had quite a few.

People reach out to me on, you know, Instagram DM and basically were like, so how do you feel? You're, you're an outlier.

Does that make you change your opinion?

I'm like, no, I saw what I saw and I felt how I felt. I have my opinion. What the reviews made me think was.

Maybe I should go again in a.

Month or so and see how improved Audra is if this show has gotten any faster.

But there are just certain things in.

That show that are misguided and no.

Quote unquote rave is going to influence.

Me to think otherwise.

But I can possibly be persuade to.

Go back and check it again because of those reviews. I don't even know how he got back to here. I'm just talking out of my asshole now. Oh, just the overwhelming information and outlets of information and opinions that influence all.

Of us and how easily swayed we all can be. I will get into more of all.

That in just a second.

But first, let's take a quick break.

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[Matt Koplik]

And we're back.

So I had hinted earlier in the episode about sort of where these plays.

Have their strengths, their weaknesses and what they sort of could learn from each other.

Both plays are, you know, I would say satirical comedies. Cult of Love. Far darker in comedy than in Eureka Day, which has its dark humor but is mostly lighter and then has more, I would say, more emotional. Heft to it than Cult of Love. And they also deal with people sort of coming over big issues and not necessarily meeting in the middle. And I think where Eureka Day succeeds, where Cult of Love doesn't, is that.

Eureka Day does a better job of.

Creating characters with genuine concern and backgrounds. And even though you don't always agree.

With what they have to say, you understand where they're coming from.

They, and some of their arguments are not totally bonkers. For every, like, bonkers thing they say, they'll say something else.

You're like, well, that is legitimate. But now you're tying it to this and you're using the thing that's legitimate.

To justify your bonkers thing.

But you're seeing how an intelligent person.

Can, you know, come to a conclusion.

That maybe isn't your own. And it makes you question yourself sometimes.

Which is what a good thought provoking play should do. Cult of Love, I think, is a more genuinely better structured play than Eureka Day. It's also a bit funnier than Eureka Day. It goes a little bit more for the jugular with its commentary than Eureka Day. But I also feel like Cult of Love has a bit of a strawman.

Argument problem, which ultimately is, you know, having characters to exist for another character to yell at.

And I feel like Shailene Woodley's character.

Has that problem a lot.

She gets a bit more complexity in.

The third act of the play, as.

You recognize just how much of her Diana is suffering from mental illness, but you don't necessarily know how much of that is connected to her Christianity or not. And there's a bit of a coda in the play that I think lets her off a little too easily. But I don't want to give away too much about that either.

But yeah, I would say Cult of.

Love is not as good about tackling that grayness in conversation and an argument.

But it is a bit more dynamic.

As a play and has a bit more tension to it and has a bit more drive. Whereas Eureka Day is relatively calm, but.

I think makes more interesting conversation topics.

Both plays have really major crucial dramatic points. In Eureka Day, I've already spoken enough about Cult of Love about the dramatic points in that, but there are quite a few really good scenes between, like, Molly Bernard and I think it's Rebecca Henderson. Yeah, Rebecca Henderson and Roberta Collindress. I'm sorry, Roberta, if I'm saying your name incorrectly, I apologize. But in Eureka Day, when it's discovered.

That the mumps outbreak has happened and.

That they have to shut down, they decide they are supposed to send out.

A letter from the board of health to all the parents urging them to.

Vaccinate their kids and to, you know, go to these locations, do it as soon as possible. Here's a schedule you can do. And without us knowing that Jessica Hecht is a non vaxxer, she's already like, I don't like this. It's telling people what to do.

Can we provide alternatives? And they decide on having basically a.

Town hall meeting via Zoom or via YouTube. But I think it's Zoom.

And the way that they set it up is Bill Irwin is hosting the Zoom, and the rest of the board.

Is sort of sitting behind him.

And they project all of the comments.

That everyone is writing in on the Zoom. And it starts, you know, light enough. Oh, the sound is working.

Now we can hear you.

Oh, my sound's not working. Maybe unmute. See, if you're muted, you need to unmute yourself. Oh, cool, cool, cool. And then, you know, people, One person, Leslie Coffin Queen, always just sending emojis, a thumbs up, a heart, a teary face, eventually a shocked face. And eventually the comments devolve into conspiracy theories and name calling. And then also just sort of once.

Again, talking in circles of someone saying.

Something and then someone responding with like, well, I feel attacked by that. And the person going, like, well, I'm.

Sorry if you felt attacked by that. That's not what I meant. This is what I meant.

But I apologize if that is how you felt. And just all of that before, it eventually just really implodes and becomes the nadir of human interaction, of just a boiling point of everyone's frustrations and no one listening and everyone just shouting. And it's a really. It's a really phenomenal scene. It's hilarious in how it builds as well as, you know, building the tension, building the humor, and then landing with a giant grenade that then luckily gets capped with a wonderful joke, a recurring joke that, again, I don't want to.

Spoil in case you see it, but I do recommend seeing it.

And if you can, try to get.

As close to center so you can.

See the projections as best as possible. The thing with Eureka Day that is interesting to me, again, is how by trying to expand our brains to everything.

And listen to everyone, we ultimately shut.

Down all progress because nothing gets done.

And plenty of people don't actually listen.

It's a lot of hearing.

Counting to 10 and then speaking.

And sometimes you hear terms that get corrupted over history, right? Like the greater good.

But when you think of what the greater good's supposed to mean it is.

Ultimately that there is progress or there's, there is a situation where you have, you have to almost do a trolley problem, right, where it's like we have.

To save most if we can't save all.

And why, why, why make everyone drown?

I'm mixing all my metaphors, but why make everyone drown?

Because not every, you know, because we can't serve everyone.

Isn't it best that we save some, that we do some good?

You know, it's, there's that scene I.

Think it's in, either it's in Spider.

Man 1 or Spider Man 2 when.

Peter Parker goes into the original with.

Toby Maguire, thank you very much. When he goes into that burning building and saves somebody and then he finds out that, and he feels really good about it because he's like kind of.

Getting his hero groove back but then finds out that someone else was in there that he missed and that person.

Died and it really gets him down.

And ultimately he has to learn like you're never going to save everyone. That shouldn't stop you from trying to save as many as you can.

Now that's a very simplistic comic book scenario. But in something like Eureka Day, they.

Have to make, they do have to make a decision.

And ultimately because one person disagrees with.

The decision, it's holding them back from doing it. It's what's probably best for the school. It's best for the majority of the students.

And in their own side eye, passive aggressive way, no one is saying directly what they're going to do or what they feel or how to do it. But they are implying the consequences of not doing what they want. Jessica Hecht does it, Bill Irwin does it.

And really only Amber Gray is the newbie.

While she is trying to play the game and speak the lingo of I hear you, I respect you and all of this. But it starts to get a little.

Fed up when no action is happening and when she feels like there's a regression and she kind of comes back in on the attack again without giving away too much.

But Jessica Hecht and she, they have about two or three scenes together and Hecht has a lot of prejudice that pops its way out in these little microaggressions.

Again, very granola, Karen. And it's just because of her assumptions about Gray and Grey's family that ends.

Up being not correct.

And they have a scene where they bond over ultimately why Jessica Hecht's character.

Is an anti vaxxer of what event in her life made that so. And Amber Gray totally hears her and is very sympathetic towards her while also being like, I still don't think it's the right way to go, but like, I'm so sorry that happened to you.

And then in the next scene, which takes place, I think the next day.

Or two days later, they come back.

And Amber Gray has new information that.

She uses essentially against Jessica Hecht.

Any information that Jessica Hecht told her in the previous scene.

And you watch sort of any ties.

Of friendship get severed immediately.

And you ultimately watch, I want to.

Say, the true colors of Hecht's character.

But the monster that she could be.

That we all could be, right, we.

All are capable of getting down to our animalistic, predatory, what's the word for protective side of ourselves.

And you watch in a moment her.

Suzanne just go, no. And just like get up and like.

Fucking lose it and just shut it.

All down and kind of have to become bad cop for a moment.

Whether she gets her way or not.

Is a spoiler of the play. But again, you watch her work the.

Room not for what is, quote unquote, the greater good, not for what is the most open minded, but ultimately to get what she wants.

The only way you can actually be.

Open minded is to understand that you may be wrong sometimes. And if you're wrong, the good news is you've just learned something and you can use that moving forward.

If you're right, you've hopefully taught someone else something that they needed to know.

But how do you expect them to.

Absorb that information if you won't absorb it? You know, as I said, everyone wants.

To teach, nobody wants to learn.

And we've come to a point in.

Our culture where it is more embarrassing.

To say, oh God, I was wrong.

And to be fair, when people are teaching these things, they're not necessarily very kind about it.

People love to have the information and.

Go, ugh, you idiot.

For not knowing that. Or like, actually, I love sharing information that I know. I think that's. I love to teach people what I know because I also love to learn. There's so many things that I'm a dumb, dumb about. And I love listening to my cousin.

Scott talk to me about law when I have questions about a contract or.

Things like that, or talk to my sister about my finances, or talking to my cousin Andy about medicine. It's just there's so much out there that I don't know that other people.

Have spent so much of their lives learning. And shouldn't we learn from them?

We talk about and we were in lockdown with COVID How, like, all of.

A sudden everyone had a medical degree.

Because they read 12 articles that day. It's like, but have you actually studied it?

Have you practiced it? Have you watched it?

Do you, you know, do you actually.

See it every day?

Or did you read a study from.

10 years ago that said one out of 45,000 people had this effect to.

Ibuprofen, and thus ibuprofen is only 98% effective. Reading an article does not make you an expert.

It can make you a little more informed. But honestly, just a little bit.

Just a little bit.

The more you read and the more.

You expose yourself, the more learned you will become.

But you were never going to become an expert unless you actually are doing the thing. If you are in the trenches with.

The thing, which is ultimately what we are doing with this podcast, is it not?

We're in the trenches of seeing this.

Theater, where I think that Cult of.

Love and Eureka Day can sort of.

Learn a bit more from each other.

As I said, I think Cult of.

Love is ultimately the stronger play.

I think the characters are a little more complex. I think that the family drama is.

A little more dynamic, and it has a, you know, much more, I would say, structured arc to it.

As I said, it's also a little darker in its humor, which for me.

Is a plus because it means it has a bit more claws in its attack. Eureka Day, I think, has the more conversation starters.

When I left the theater, there was a woman who was very angry because.

Of how the audience reacted to a specific joke of like, girl, if that's how you feel, then this play absolutely.

Needed to be here for you. You need to see this stuff.

Although it seems like you maybe did not get the point of view of.

The play, which isn't necessarily about anyone's argument so much as about us as.

A society, us as a culture of talking ourselves in circles and ultimately coming back to where we originally were, just because we don't want to be wrong, we want to be right, and we.

Want to have our way.

We are just learning the lingo so we can have other people take what we say as gospel, which is fine, ultimately. Why am I doing this podcast? Not to have my thoughts be treated as gospel. Right? No, I'm joking.

My.

I do the podcast because it's fun for the most part, and, you know, it's a nice outlet to share my.

Thoughts and hopefully lead to discussion, which if you.

Again, I hate to pimp it out.

Again, but if you haven't joined the Discord Channel.

Please do. If.

If you ever listen to this podcast and want to talk back to me, first of all, I am also on the Discord Channel, so you can reach.

Out to me on there, if not Instagram. But people will respond to the podcast.

Episodes on the channel and give their own thoughts about what they've seen.

Or if I say something super vague about a show that I'm reviewing and someone's like, can someone give a spoiler? They will do that and someone who has seen it will give the spoiler. They'll sometimes ask more direct questions about.

The shows that I've reviewed if I haven't covered a specific topic in these review episodes.

But yeah, like, I've never really been one to talk about theater, as my word is law.

I was just in a group hang.

With a friend of the pod, Rob.

W. Schneider, and a friend of his who, incidentally, I tried to date many.

Years ago, and he was joking to me about, like, oh, yes, well, like, your opinion on theater is ultimately like.

The only opinion, right?

And I indulged him for a bit, but mostly I was just like.

I mean, I trust my taste because.

I feel like I have expansive taste and I think I'm very good about.

Being objective about what I see.

But if someone loves something that I was mid on, I'm not going to.

Be like, you're wrong.

Very rarely am I like that. And I have to really hate something. I have to think it's truly garbage. And I will then say, what is my ultimately a dick? Where I'm like, you're allowed to like it.

I don't agree or respect you liking it, but you can like it.

My new favorite thing to say, by the way, and I'll leave us all with this. It's a very Eureka day way to say this. When there's an actor I don't like in a show and they give exactly.

The performance I knew they were going to give because I don't like them. But that actor has fans. They got cast after all, didn't they?

So somebody on the production team or.

In the casting office is a fan.

Of theirs as well as some people in the audience.

But if someone comes up to me.

And asks like, hey, how is Blank in this show? My response is, if you're a fan.

Of what they bring to the table.

You will like what they're doing in this. Which is just my way of being like, well, if that does it for you, I'm sure this will do it for you too.

As in, don't do it for me. And with that, I think we probably.

Should just wrap up this one. It's been about 45 minutes. I think that's enough to talk about.

Cult of Love and Eureka Day. I'll talk about them a little bit.

More in the wrap up episode in three days as I do my final rankings of the final rankings, my updated rankings of the season so far, as.

Well as the nominations for Tony Awards.

That I personally would give these shows and the rest of the shows this season I'm going to limit myself to five per category, but I have to do two minimum. So anywhere between two and five. There are some categories that I'm pretty much just at two, maybe three so far. But that's something for you all to, you know, get excited for in the, in the next episode.

And yeah, that's it for now.

I don't really have much else to say. If you like the podcast, give us.

A nice 5 star rating or review.

I actually got a very lovely five.

Star review recently, but I'm gonna wait until the wrap up episode, the ranking episode, to read it because I know.

That that's gonna have more listens than this one and I want that person to get their flowers. So I will hold off on that review until that episode.

And yeah, I'm trying to think we should close this out.

You know, let's, let's close this out with Amber Gray, shall we?

Since she is in Eureka Day and.

She doesn't sing in it, but she does sing well and I enjoy her.

And I hope you all enjoy her and that's it.

Yeah, I do recommend both plays. I think that they are both fun.

And they're intermissionless and worthwhile with really strong ensemble work.

This has been a season really strong acting ensembles. I think Eureka Day, Cult of Love, maybe happy Ending, Hills of California and oh Mary have been really strong acting ensembles this year.

Yellowface too.

I think Yellowface had a really strong group and so I'm glad that we have that. I think Best Play is turning into.

A pretty crowded field and I love that.

Really do love that. Yeah.

So we'll close out with Amber Gray.

And I'll see you guys in a couple of days for the ranks Kings. Take it away, Amber.

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[Billy]

My brother is quite madly in love he is quite madly in love with you, my dear. How she blushes, how she blushes, my pretty oh how she flushes how she blushes, my pretty Shadow, you are such a lovely thing.

[Quincy]

Can you identify an Alphabet just from her defying gravity war cry.

[Kevin]

Can you name every actress in the Wicked to waitress pipeline?

[Quincy]

Or does the phrase witch switch mean anything to you?

[Kevin]

Well then, good news. My name's Quincy.

[Quincy]

And my name's Kevin, and we're the.

[Kevin]

Host of Sentimental Men. We're here to talk and maybe scream.

[Quincy]

About our favorite women in musical theater, the Witches of Wicked. So if spending a Friday night in a no good deed Rabbit hole on YouTube sounds like your idea of a good time, then Sentimental Men is the podcast for you.

[Kevin]

And with guests like Jessica Vosk, Lucy Jones, and Stephanie J. Block, chances are we've already got an episode with your favorite Elphaba or Glinda.

[Quincy]

Like Laura Bell Bundy, Brittany Johnson, and Mackenzie Kurtz.

[Kevin]

So pause your riff compilations, put down your copy of the Grimory, and give Sentimental Men a listen.

[Quincy]

You can find us on the Broadway Podcast Network or wherever you listen to podcasts.