Broadway Breakdown: "Matt Reviews HEATHERS & More"

Host: Matt Koplik
Date: September 18, 2025

Overview

In this episode of Broadway Breakdown, host Matt Koplik makes his return after a busy summer with updates on the podcast, a deep-dive review of HEATHERS: The Musical at New World Stages, and an interview with author Ron Fassler about his new book The Show Goes On: Broadway Hirings, Firings, and Replacements. True to Matt’s reputation for passionate (and occasionally profane) takes, listeners get a no-holds-barred critique of both HEATHERS and the state of theatre podcasting—plus plenty of behind-the-scenes Broadway stories.

Episode Highlights & Key Segments

1. Podcast Announcements & Updates (00:00–17:00)

• Live Musical Cabaret Event: Broadway Breakdown will present a 70-minute "cabaret" at Green Room 42 on November 14th at 7pm, featuring trivia, live music, possible audience participation, and special guests. Matt urges listeners:

  “There might be a guest or two. There might be some audience participation. There might be an appearance by Sally Bowl. The only way you can know for sure is to buy tix at the link in the description box.” (03:00)

• Substack Launch: The podcast has its own Substack, featuring written show transcripts, additional reviews, articles, and exclusive content—ideal for readers as well as listeners. Substack is currently free but paid tiers are coming.
• Platform Change: Broadway Breakdown has amicably left the Broadway Podcast Network and is now fully independent.
• The Quest for Press Access: Despite rising ratings and reviews (over 340 on Apple, 150+ on Spotify), the podcast was not accepted by the Broadway League for official press membership. Matt calls for continued audience support via five-star ratings:

  “If you like the podcast, just give us a nice five star rating. That’s all that matters.” (13:55)

• Tech Upgrades: There’s new branding and artwork (by Adam Ellsbury) and upgraded audio equipment, with an aim to improve consistency in sound quality.
• Upcoming Deep Dives: Teasers for future episodes on Dreamgirls (with Jason Veasey), Hedwig and the Angry Inch (with Preston Max Allen), Who’s Afraid of Virginia Woolf? (with Ginger Twinsies), and more.

2. HEATHERS: The Musical – Review (17:05–47:20)

Plot Recap with Tone Warning (17:05–19:55)

• Matt gives a spoiler-light overview of Heathers for musical neophytes, especially noting its handling of dark subjects—bullying, suicide, assault, and campy tone.
• Comparison to the 1989 film:

  “Heathers, the movie, was very much in my DNA. This, Clueless, and Mean Girls were, like, my high school movies.” (21:05)

Production & Performance Critique (19:56–36:35)

• Improved Production Values:

  “This production is much better than the previous production. It has money, which is not always necessary for a show to be good, but…the original production was so bare-bones that there was really nothing to go off of. The set for this actually gives a better idea of a darker tone to the show.” (22:50)

• Favorite (MVP) Performances:
  • Mackenzie Kurtz as Heather Chandler:

    “She was able to have that balance perfectly…vocally wonderful and like has that mean girl energy to Heather Chandler that makes you terrified of her, but also has a seductive energy.” (27:10)

  • Elizabeth Teeter as Heather McNamara:

    “A really good blend…a bit more of a bimbo… but when shit does get real, we feel a little something.” (28:44)

  • Aaron L. Morton as Martha:

    “So earnest and just natural as Martha…she truly believed what she believed and did not play up the little girlness.” (30:30)

  • Casey Likes as JD:

    “He plays JD very, very troubled and very angsty right at the jump. And once the show starts to take a darker turn, like once we get to honestly ‘Our Love is God’ is when I thought Casey was perfect.” (32:20)

• Mixed Performance – Lorna Courtney as Veronica:

  “Lorna is an incredible singer, just voice like an iron tank engine…her Veronica was kind of goofy…not how I view Veronica, who is usually dry and witty and very above it all because she’s so much smarter than her peers.” (33:45–34:52)

Book & Score Changes (36:00–41:30)

• Positive Revisions: “You’re Welcome” is considered an improvement over “Blue,” though Matt questions if that scene should be a song at all:

  “It’s not a bad song. I just think it’s a scene that doesn’t need to be musicalized.” (39:22)

• Detrimental Additions: “I Say No” draws particular ire:

  “I hate this song… It’s so power-anthomy in a way that feels so anti-Heathers. It only exists because it stops the show because Lorna Courtney is an amazing singer and she sings the fucking shit out of it.” (40:12)

• Pacing Issues:

  “The show still does feel long. Act one feels very, very long…Just some tightening up of scene transitions and some scene work, shave off, you know, 10 minutes…the whole show would benefit.” (42:38)

• General Direction/Design:

  “Mostly I was just like, yeah, this is getting it done. It’s fine.” (46:10)

• Audience Behavior: Praises his respectful audience but notes rampant “horror stories” about other performances.

Heathers as Adaptation: Movie vs. Musical (36:37–47:20)

• Source Material’s Edge is Blunted:

  “Heathers, the movie, is this tennis ball covered in barbed wire... it’s sharp and it’s mean and it’s very cynical but also very stylish and weird...Sometimes it felt like the musical... was making fun of the original movie—which is odd because the movie itself is a comedy.” (45:00)

• Optimism in Musicals:

  “Musical theater overall is a more optimistic medium than any other medium. Even shows like Les Mis...end with an uplifting note. And Heathers ends in a very uplifting note.” (24:35)

• Depth and Nuance Are Lost:
  • “In the movie, Veronica has been a member of the Heathers for a while now...in the musical, we start senior year, Veronica is an outsider and she becomes a member of the Heathers in the opening number. She gets three weeks... so the line ‘I just killed my best friend’ doesn’t make any sense.” (38:00)
• Invitation for Discussion:

  “If you’re a movie person who... loved the show, talk to me...I’ve yet to meet anyone that is that way.” (46:08)

3. Interview: Ron Fassler, Author of The Show Goes On (47:20–75:16)

About the Book (47:25–51:58)

• Premise:

  “It’s the first book of its kind in which it’s nothing but stories about Broadway legends who have come up the hard way—replacing in a Broadway show, being the understudy, being the swing, being the standby. It’s really a love letter to actors and the bravery...shows have literally been saved...just because they finally get that right actor when somebody’s been fired.” – Ron Fassler (47:34)

• Research: Fassler interviewed over 100 industry professionals—actors, directors, publicists—and gathered lesser-known and new perspectives.

Inspiration for the Book (49:11–51:39)

• Personal Motivation:

  “I was an actor for the majority of my adult life...ever since, I've...become a full-fledged, fully credentialed drama critic here in New York. I really feel like...this was my destiny. I was put on this earth to write about the theater.” (49:11)

• Process and Passion for Research:

  “I always use this quote, from the great Winnie Holtzman who wrote Wicked: ‘I love research because it’s not writing.’” (51:15)

  • Fassler relishes archival research, especially in physical libraries like the Lincoln Center.

Notable Broadway Replacements & Firings (53:00–57:46)

• Famous stories covered include:
  • Henry Goodman’s controversial firing from The Producers:

    “That was a swing and a miss. And I did talk to everybody involved with it...” (54:45)

  • Richard Dreyfuss in The Producers London:
    • “Never even got to opening night. It’s quite a section on The Producers.”
  • Beanie Feldstein/Lea Michele in Funny Girl:

    “I opened the book with a recent brouhaha...Beanie Feldstein and Lea Michele in Funny Girl, one of the big replacement stories of this century or any other.” (57:34)

Heroic Replacement Stories (58:09–62:04)

• Liza Minnelli replacing Gwen Verdon in Chicago (1975):

  “She said, ‘Here’s a stipulation, though. Don’t put my name on the marquee...just have the slip of paper...And she did it...She was amazing in it. And that first night...the place went insane.” (59:41)

• Liza Minnelli filling in for Julie Andrews in Victor/Victoria:

  “At this point, you know, Liza had just come off a tour. She was tired. But she really is that great trooper...she did the show for a month and sold it out...” (61:00)

• Fred Ebb’s gift to Liza:

  “He had taken a little lifesaver and he’d had it made in gold and gave it to her.” (62:04)

Replacements: Stigma and Surprises (62:04–66:40)

• The stigma against replacements is misplaced—many major stars have replaced, and some, like John Cullum, regretted missing the chance.
• Intriguing firings, e.g., Gary Beach/Danny Davis in La Cage aux Folles, and the persistent industry mythos around replacements and cast recordings (the Beanie-less Funny Girl).

Research Surprises & Personal Anecdotes (69:43–74:13)

• Fassler’s favorite discovery:
  • Richard Burton’s Hamlet and the emergency understudy, with stories unearthed via old newspapers and family connections.
• Personal memorable replacements:
  • Sandy Baron replacing Cliff Gorman in Lenny:

    “Sandy Baron was every bit as good as Cliff Gorman. I mean, when you’ve got a great part and you’ve got a handle on it, you can go in and do the same miraculous thing.” (72:00)

• New projects: Fassler is working on a book about Broadway’s greatest comebacks and disasters.

Where to Find the Book (73:50–75:18)

• Buy The Show Goes On at ronfassler.org
• “You cannot buy it on Amazon. I’m proudly making money the old fashioned way all by myself.” (73:56)
• eBook and audiobook editions are forthcoming.

Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments

• “99% of the time, the people who I speak of in my reviews, they’ll hear it and they will say...‘I see what you’re saying and thank you for saying it not in a totally dickish way,’ which I appreciate.” – Matt Koplik (41:10)
• “The show still does feel long...a musical, you can’t let the momentum die...it’s death by a thousand cuts.” – Matt Koplik (42:38)
• “Heathers, the movie, is this tennis ball covered in barbed wire.” – Matt Koplik (45:00)
• “I love replacements. I mean, I’m very curious. I may go back and see Purpose again because Latonya Jackson’s out. She’s been replaced by Brenda Pressley, who is a marvelous actress...” – Ron Fassler (63:22)
• “Every great actor’s been fired. Robert De Niro, Katharine Hepburn, you could just go down the list.” – Ron Fassler (66:41)

Takeaways for Listeners

• Heathers: The Musical at New World Stages offers improved production and strong casting, but still can’t escape the core challenges of translating the film’s darkness and nuance for the musical theatre stage. Recommended for fans of the score or for newcomers, but lovers of the original film may find the adaptation lacking edge.
• Ron Fassler’s The Show Goes On is an affectionate historical deep-dive into the realities of Broadway’s revolving doors, with both juicy gossip and meaningful appreciation for unsung heroes. The book—and the stories behind it—are tailor-made for theatre buffs.
• Broadway Breakdown is expanding, evolving, and aiming for even deeper connections with listeners—via Substack, Discord, and live shows.
• The episode brims with frank, funny, and deeply informed opinions—typical for Matt, who never shies away from both loving and roasting what he sees.

For More

• Visit Broadway Breakdown Substack for transcripts and extra content.
• For Ron Fassler’s book, go to ronfassler.org.

Next Week: Part one of the Deep Dive on Dreamgirls with Jason Veasey.