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- [00:09]
Eric Cartman
I wanna hold him like they do in Texas plays Fold em let em hit me raise it baby stay with me I love it Looking intuition play the cards with fits to start and after he's been hooked I'll play the one that's on his heart oh oh oh oh oh oh I'll get him hot show him what I.
- [00:38]
Matt Koplik
Hello all you theater lovers both out in proud and on the DL and welcome back to Broadway Breakdown, a podcast discussing the history and legacy of American theater's most exclusive address, Broadway. I'm your host, Matt Koplik, the least famous and most opinionated of all the Broadway podcast hosts, and we have a little bonus review episode today. We are covering Love Life Currently at City Central Encores.
- [01:02]
Podcast Co-host
And by currently, I mean as of this Sunday, March 30th. Sorry, it will be gone by the time most of you listen to this review. But still, we're gonna talk about it.
- [01:11]
Matt Koplik
And we're also gonna do a review of the Picture of Dorian Gray, which.
- [01:15]
Podcast Co-host
Opened this week and I saw earlier in the week.
- [01:17]
Matt Koplik
We're gonna do Love Life first, since that is closing. And I'm sure more of you want.
- [01:22]
Podcast Co-host
To hear about Dorian Gray anyway, so.
- [01:24]
Matt Koplik
We'Ll spread that out. Some of you may be wondering, Matthew.
- [01:28]
Podcast Co-host
Why did today's episode open with Eric Cartman's cover of Lady Gaga's Poker Face?
- [01:33]
Matt Koplik
To that I say because I wanted to. I just.
- [01:36]
Podcast Co-host
That's. That song always brings me joy, so I wanted you guys to have that.
- [01:40]
Matt Koplik
Before we get to reviews, we have a couple of our own. I want to give some flowers to two new reviews that I just want to do a read of. So let's quickly play the Lightning. The Piazza Overture, 5 stars. Greatest podcaster of all. Fans of musical theater will join this group and find themselves getting excited for the drop of a new episode, especially if it's multiple hours in length. I feel so much smarter listening to Matt's insightful reviews, and I love learning much more of the context for Broadway lore before I was even around. Like most people, I don't agree 100% with all of Matt's takes, but I immensely appreciate the time, care and effort he puts into unpacking the good and bad from various productions. Matt has become my favorite reviewer. Thank you. And the one I can trust most to give an honest and intelligent review. Thank you. Happy early birthday and I look forward to all that is to come. Thank you so much. That's a wonderful review. And then another one. Five stars. Yes, a theatergoer with standards. Matt refreshingly Pulls no punches, provides thorough reviews to shows, and listening to his passion for great art can compel any storyteller to aspire towards making great art. Thank you so much, guys. Wonderful, wonderful writing there. I'm very fortunate that the people who choose to listen to this podcast are so smart and insightful and write just so well. And it's. Writing is very difficult and I know people get in their heads about wanting to write a good review for this or articulating all the things that they feel. And I just want to say there's absolutely no pressure. Write if you can. If you are worried about that and just want to do a five star rating, you can. If you don't want to do any of that, you just want to listen.
- [03:25]
Podcast Co-host
By all means, go ahead.
- [03:26]
Matt Koplik
But yeah, we're doing, we're trying to have as many ratings and reviews as possible so that when we do eventually submit ourselves to the Broadway League to be on the official press list, they will take us seriously. But yes, thank you so much. And as I've always said, no one has to agree with all of my takes, but I hope that at the very least I can make very clear why I felt how I felt and that I put a lot of thought into articulating. So. And yeah, when we say that I pull no punches. I mean, it's not that I'm a dick, right? Like, I don't come in, I'm like, fuck you all. Sometimes I will see something that really makes me upset.
- [04:04]
Podcast Co-host
Not politically, just like I'll find something super, super lazy and mediocre. And that makes me mad. And I will say as such, but.
- [04:13]
Matt Koplik
If I didn't like something, it's really rare that I come in hot and I'm just like, well, burn it all to the ground. Even if I found things mediocre, it's. It's. I have to really be upset to.
- [04:24]
Podcast Co-host
Come at it with full force.
- [04:26]
Matt Koplik
Which is to say, let's talk about Love Life, which is billed as a vaudeville in two parts and is the second show of this season of Encores. Love Life is a musical that I knew very, very little about, outside of the fact that Nanette Fabre won a Tony Award for it. In my research, I learned that it played at the 46th Street Theater, which is now the Richard Rogers Theatre, where Hamilton is at. It opened in 1948. It had a libretto and lyrics by Alan J. Lerner, best known for My Fair lady and Camelot and Brigadoon. The music is by Kurt Weill, best known for Threepenny Opera and Lady in the Dark, One Touch of Venus. And I was under the impression that it was sort of like a review show almost. You. You see Vaudeville and you think, oh, I'm guessing, you know, it's multiple sketches and. And it's not, you know, one story told over the evening. It's multiple stories. And the. This production starred Kate Baldwin and Brian Stokes Mitchell. And I think, oh, okay. Like, they're playing different characters all throughout the show. No, no, no. What I've learned is that Love Life to many is sort of considered the first major example of what we now know as the concept musical musicals like Cabaret & Co. And Follies & Hair, where the plot is thin.
- [05:47]
Podcast Co-host
It's more the themes and the idea.
- [05:50]
Matt Koplik
Of the musical that we are portraying. And Hal Prince and Sondheim both have said that Love Life was very influential for them as artists and, you know, making them see that you could do so much with musical theater than just the standard storytelling. And in a lot of ways, that's true. You w. I watched Love Life at Encores, and I saw all the things about it that made it worth pursuing and all the reasons why we'll probably.
- [06:17]
Podcast Co-host
Never see it again, at least on.
- [06:20]
Matt Koplik
The professional New York stage. It ultimately tells the story of a married couple played by Kate Baldwin and Bryan Stotz Mitchell. The Coopers, I think, is their. Is their character's names. Hold, please. Yes, it's. Yeah, Johnny and Elizabeth Cooper. And when the show begins, it is. And apparently Victoria Clarke and her team did some light trimming and adapting of the material. And normally the show opens with a magician and very Pippin magic to do, kind of beginning. And then the married couple come on stage, and we realize that we're actually going to watch their story unfold in this vaudeville. The Encore's production opens not with a magician, but what we learn are Kate Baldwin and Brian Mitchell's children doing a magic act and bringing their parents on stage for the actual. Which is fine. We all know how I feel about children, especially child actors, and the two children in this are very talented and very polished and do a fine enough job. But it was a lot of child.
- [07:28]
Podcast Co-host
Actor for me, and that always sort.
- [07:30]
Matt Koplik
Of puts me a little bit on edge. But the musical is ultimately the story of Brian Stokes Mitchell and Kate Baldwin's marriage, but also over the course of the history of America up until 1948 when the musical took place. So we start in 1948 at this magic show, and then we flash back to, I think, 1791 in Massachusetts as We watch Kate Baldwin, Brian Stokes Mitchell and their children. I guess it's Connecticut, join this town. And Brian Stokes Mitchell's character makes furniture, and he's. They're going to start a life there. And they, you know, sing a song about loving each other and all these things. And then we flash forward 50 years, but the couple still is sort of the same age they were before.
- [08:19]
Podcast Co-host
That's not 50 years later to them.
- [08:21]
Matt Koplik
It's just 50 years later in America. And that's the next stage of their marriage. And then we Flash forward another 50 years for the next scene. And I think the idea is outside of maybe just Alan J. Lerner was like, hey, what if we sped through, like, 150 years of time with the same characters in this presentational, vaudeville, sketchy musical? If I were to, like, guess, I guess I would say that LNJ Lerner thought, what if we watched the progression of a marriage and it mirrored the progression of America? So as we're watching each couple of decades, the new phase of American history.
- [09:02]
Podcast Co-host
So are we also seeing the next.
- [09:04]
Matt Koplik
Phase of this marriage?
- [09:05]
Eric Cartman
And.
- [09:06]
Matt Koplik
And Brian Stokes Mitchell's character leaving the furniture business and becoming a road salesman. And then Kate Baldwin's character finding her own independence and lining that up with the Women's March. And. And as we watch their marriage disintegrate, it's during, you know, the Roaring Twenties and then eventually the Great Depression.
- [09:30]
Podcast Co-host
And.
- [09:32]
Matt Koplik
It'S interesting. The show itself is fascinating because it has a lot of humor to it. It has a lot of intelligence to it. The music is quite awesome. And this production has been sung beautifully. And it's a concept that isn't totally without merit, but it is a concept that doesn't totally work. And as a show, it doesn't totally work. But that's sort of the fun of encores. And I heard a lot of negative feedback about love life. People walking out, people dissuading other people from seeing it. And I understand why. This is not an encores that I would say is, like, super easy to swallow. It's long. It's like two and a half hours, which is not long in the grand scheme of musical theater, but it feels long. And a script that feels disjointed and doesn't always make a lot of sense. And songs that, while very lovely, often stop the action cold. But it is a lot of talent on stage. It was a very well cast production. It was very well designed. I can't say it was, like, the most inventively staged, but there was some really great Choreography from Joanne Hunter. The thing about Love Life is that it's ultimately the kind of encores that I like encores doing, which is, first of all, good music performed beautifully. And it's sort of an expensive theater nerd expedition, right where you are seeing this artifact from the past and you can understand how it came about, what it will eventually lead to in the history of musical theater and finding some merit to it, while also understanding why it's. It'll never be seen again. And there's a joy to that and joy to the fleetingness of that of this production of Love Life only happening for a couple of days. There's been a point now for a while with Encores where people go in expecting a perfect pre Broadway tryout and waiting to see which is going to be the show to transfer. And in fairness to audiences, Encores is sort of set up that expectation for a while now, not only with shows having transferred, but also they now are kind of curating seasons for that. They want a show to move to Broadway, they want to do a copy paste job, they want to bring in.
- [12:02]
Podcast Co-host
That revenue for encores, they want to.
- [12:04]
Matt Koplik
Bring that prestige to encores, and it keeps it from being special and just puts pressure on everyone of, okay, are we going to deliver the next encore's transfer? And that's not what it should be about. Encore's Transfers should feel like an anomaly of Sometimes you get a love life where it is, okay, this has its flaws. I'm glad I saw it, but I'll never see it again. Or it's a dear world where you're like, oh, yes, yes, yes. I'm so thrilled I get to see a professional grand production of this.
- [12:34]
Podcast Co-host
But also, like, this musical is not.
- [12:36]
Matt Koplik
A hidden gem that deserves to move to Broadway.
- [12:39]
Podcast Co-host
But I'm so glad I saw it.
- [12:40]
Matt Koplik
Then sometimes you get, you know, a cena with an apple tree or a Laura Benanti Schuler Hensley Most Happy Fella, where the audience goes, oh, this musical is so much better than I remembered it being. And this cast is so good and this production actually really works for the material. It can't just die here. And obviously with Most Happy Fella, that did not transfer, but that was a lovely, lovely production that honestly could have. And Apple Tree was a production that did have a life afterwards in the same way that Finian's Rainbow had a life afterwards. Like, Finian's Rainbow might be the last genuine encore transfer that felt special because everyone kind of forgot not just like the beauty of that music, but the specialness of that show. And like, yes, it had its dated elements to it, but was, you know, very much on the pulse of racism and prejudice and class discrepancy in a very jovial musical comedy package. And again, it was 2,500 people sitting there going, this show is so much more special than we remembered. And speaking of Kate Baldwin, like, this cast that's so wonderful and fine tuned to it, we can't just sleep on this. There's something here which is ultimately what brought it to Broadway. And love Life is not going to move to Broadway, nor should it, but it is ultimately more, for me, in the mold of what Encore should be. Some other good things. Kate Baldwin, Brian Stokes Mitchell, Inglourious voice, both perfectly funny. I can't say that Kate Baldwin is like an extraordinarily gifted comedian in the way that Jen Simard is. Like, Jennifer Simard thinks of 5,000 different things to bring to the table to help make something funnier. Kate is a very intelligent and intuitive actress and she knows where the laughs are and she knows how to sell them. Like, Kate Baldwin does not kill comedy. Kate Baldwin can sell you comedy, but Kate Baldwin is not the creative comedian that a Samart is.
- [14:46]
Podcast Co-host
Right.
- [14:46]
Matt Koplik
Or an Andrea Martin. So one wonders, with someone like Nanette Thabray in this role in the 1940s, how much more did Nanette bring to the table? Because Kate sounded gorgeous and she had a lot of personality and she really did her best to give a fully formed performance with as little time as Encores gives you. But there she has a number in Act 2 called Mr. Right, where she and Brian Stokes Mitchell are sort of not on trial, but sort of being wooed by the ensemble. Again, very odd show to finally, like, separate from their marriage and find life beyond each other. It's very Pippin meets Lady in the Dark, right?
- [15:31]
Podcast Co-host
It's. It's the.
- [15:32]
Matt Koplik
It's the troupe of Pippin putting on the Act 3 trial in lady in the Dark, where Gertrude Lawrence does the saga of Jenny and puts on a defense for herself. And Kate Baldwin sings this song about, like, she's gonna go out and she's gonna find a Mr. Right and all the things about him that are perfect, because while she may not be perfect, he will think she is.
- [15:52]
Podcast Co-host
And.
- [15:53]
Matt Koplik
And she does this giant, you know, jazz handsy number and totally stopped the show. The audience loved it. And Kate did a really good job with it. Sounded great, was super lively. Part of me was like, huh? I wonder what, like a clown like Andrea Martin 30 years ago could have done with this, because while Kate did a lovely job, I was like, I wonder if there's room here for even more comedy and more weirdness. And that's not going to necessarily make the production of Love Life improve so much that you want to transfer it. But it's just. It was interesting to see where certain personalities of the 40s, 50s and 60s might have found a niche in a show like Love Life. And it's also interesting to see all the shades of musicals before Love Life and after Love Life that are sort of woven into this show. As I said, lady in the Dark and Pippin. You also see, like, shades of cabaret in between these scenes of Kate Baldwin and Brian Stokes Mitchell and their family as we go from 1791 to 1948. You know, the curtain would come down and a group of people from the ensemble would come out and sing a song that sort of either commented on the action or what the next stage.
- [17:05]
Podcast Co-host
Of this marriage was going to be.
- [17:06]
Matt Koplik
So there's a whole song called Economics.
- [17:08]
Podcast Co-host
And it's a one joke song of just like, that's good economics.
- [17:11]
Matt Koplik
This woman doing this with this man, or this wife doing this with her husband, or this husband doing this with his wife in regards to what they do with their money, one being, you.
- [17:18]
Podcast Co-host
Know, this wife taking her husband's pay and stuffing it in her bra every day so he can't, you know, do anything stupid with the money.
- [17:28]
Matt Koplik
And the group of actors singing, well, now, that's good economics, but that's very bad for love. The idea being more money, more problems.
- [17:35]
Podcast Co-host
Right?
- [17:35]
Matt Koplik
That's the whole gist of the song. And it's very fun, it's very lively. And of course, it is commenting on the next scene, which is as Brian Stokes Mitchell goes out onto the road to make more money for the family, the more problems the marriage has. And it's, again, it's creative and it's clever.
- [17:54]
Podcast Co-host
It's not necessarily the most moving.
- [17:56]
Matt Koplik
There's not a lot of nuance. There's not a lot of time spent to flesh out these characters and their relationship. It's sort of things are good until they're not, and then they stop and then they're really not good. And then, like, the marriage just ends. And this.
- [18:08]
Podcast Co-host
They're.
- [18:09]
Matt Koplik
They come back to each other at the end in a very rushed way, which is very apropos for Golden Age musicals. Right? Like, even some of the best ones, like a lot of the Rodgers and Hammerstein musicals, there's a lot of resolution that happens very quickly at the end you know, with Oklahoma. With the murder of Judd and the fake trial for Curly, and then the redemption of Billy Bigelow in Carousel and Nelly Forbush not being racist anymore in South Pacific. These things happen very quickly. And it's not poor writing on those parts because we've seen it work in good productions, but it does make it difficult for a lot of productions to sell. It's not foolproof so much as it's. It can work. It's just not foolproof. And the same thing happens in Love life, right? We watch this marriage be very good for a very long time.
- [18:56]
Podcast Co-host
It's.
- [18:56]
Matt Koplik
It quickly starts to disintegrate at the end of act one, and then act two. We only get really one scene, maybe two, where the marriage is bad, and then they end it. And then we spend a long time with them in this theatrical limbo area with the. With the Pippin troupe pulling a lady, a lady in the dark with them. And at the very last second, they choose to not indulge with the troop and stick with the marriage and not get divorced. And it ends with them sort of reconciling, but in a very rushed and very vague way. And you watch it, and you see, you watch it and you wonder how if Alan J. Lerner and Kurt Weill had come to this material 12 years later, if they would have been able to flesh it out more. But that's sort of the thing about when you're the first, right? I mean, I don't know how many other musicals were similar to Love Life at this time in terms of being a quote unquote concept. But from my understanding, this is really the first one, or again, the most known at that time. And when you're the one breaking the ground, there's no mold for you to go off of. You're making your own mold. And so people have perfected or made better the concept musical post Love Life because they had that mold to go off of and improve. So we don't hold it against Lerner, we don't hold it against Vile, for this being kind of a. A messy mixed bag of creativity and cleverness and underdeveloped, under baked ideas. I am glad I saw it. It was also fascinating to watch the song, I remember it well, which I only knew from the movie Gigi, and had no idea that Lerner had done a prototype of it in this musical with Vile. And if you know the song, I remember it well, it is two people discussing their love in the past and one person saying, oh, yes, this happened. And the other Person contradicting them and the joke being at the end of every verse. Ah yes, I remember it well. And some of the lyrics are the same, some lyrics are different. The concept and the structure of the song is the same. The melody is different. Obviously. Lerner brought this song to Frederick Lowe who wrote a new composition for it for Gigi. And the version of I Remember it well in Love Life obviously is far more singer friendly. It is a song you give Brian Stokes Mitchell and Kate Baldwin to really sell. And in Gigi it's Hermione Gingold and Maurice Chevalier who are not the world's most phenomenal singers, especially Chevalier at that point of his life. But I find the Gigi version an improvement. Again, taking the prototype and with time and, and knowledge and insight and experience, being able to finesse it better. So that was, I think that is sort of emblematic of Love Life in general. That song of huh, this isn't. I love this idea. It kind of works, but I know it's going to work better in the future. And it's fun to sort of make those connections. And that is sort of where we are with Love Life. And I did not walk out. My mom really enjoyed it. She actually enjoyed it more than I did. Again, I found it fascinating. She actually found it quite fun. And she has since learned from other friends of hers who were at Love Life this week. They did not enjoy it. But I don't know. I don't look at this as a mulligan for encores. I look at this as sort of a return to form. And from what I understand about next season, that return to form is short lived. They're going to kind of go back to the mold that they have been setting since COVID But I don't know, I, I enjoy it. I, I think this is the kind of shit Encore should have at least in their once in their season every year. So I'm. I'm grateful I got to see it. That's Love Life. We're gonna take a quick break and we are going to talk about the Picture of Dorian Gray.
- [22:50]
Eric Cartman
You're the top. Yeah, you're an arrow collar. You're the top. You're a Coolidge dollar. You're the nimble tread of the feet of Fred Astaire.
- [23:05]
Podcast Co-host
And we're back. So on Tuesday I saw the Picture.
- [23:11]
Matt Koplik
Of Dorian Gray and then it ended.
- [23:12]
Podcast Co-host
Up opening on my birthday, March 27th. Thank you very much. Starring Sarah Snook, best known for playing Shiv on Succession, adapted and directed by Kip Williams and I believe this production originated in Australia, not with Sarah Snook, though. Sarah Snook did it in the West End where she won the Olivier Award. And it is now playing at the Music Box Theatre, I believe, until June, possibly July. And it is billed as a one woman show. In a lot of ways it is. Although we have to give credit to the ensemble of camera operators and wig and costume assistants that also interact with Sarah and provide support during the show. They are billed as camera operators, but they do a great deal of things. That's Clue, Luca Cain, Natalie Rich, Benjamin Sheen, Dara Wu. They all, you know, really, there's no way Sarah can do this whole show without them. And so we give them a lot of credit.
- [24:11]
Matt Koplik
Picture of Dorian Gray is based on.
- [24:12]
Podcast Co-host
The Oscar Wilde novel, which I remember reading in high school. And at the time we all were like, this is kind of gay. Like, this is very. There's a lot of homoerotic undertones to this. And we didn't know much about Oscar Wilde at the time.
- [24:27]
Matt Koplik
And the more we learned about him.
- [24:28]
Podcast Co-host
And with age and experience and looking back on all of it, like, it's all very prominent in the book, a little less so in this current play version, but it is a little bit in there. As well as the androgyny of gender and sexless human activity as well as sexy human activity. The basic premise is a beautiful young man, England, around the late 1800s, early 1900s, has a portrait taken by an artist who very much is infatuated with him because he is just so beautiful. And Dorian Gray is the young man. And Dorian meets a nobleman who kind of corrupts his mind with the idea that beauty is important and enjoying oneself is important. And as time weathers on, the joys of life eventually slip away.
- [25:18]
Matt Koplik
And Dorian looks at the portrait of himself that I think it's not Harry, but Basil.
- [25:23]
Podcast Co-host
His friend Basil paints for him. He sees the portrait. He goes, that portrait of me is so stunning and how sad that I will get older and that I will get older and the portrait will stay the same. You know, I will never be as young as I am in this exact moment when this painting was made. And I wish I would give my soul for the painting to take on all of my time and my age and my trauma in my experience, and I can stay the same. And in that moment without realizing it at first. But pretty soon afterwards, it comes true. And Dorian has a few encounters, and we won't call them adventures, but Dorian falls in love with a young actress named Sybil Vane. Who is beautiful but also very talented actress and professes his love to her and plans to marry her, proposes to her, and when he brings his friends to see her, she's terrible. And all of a sudden, he doesn't love her anymore. And the reason why she's terrible, she says, because she had only known human experience and human emotions like love and loss and grief through the plays she had done. But now that she genuinely understood what it was to be in love with someone, someone like Dorian, she's like, all of a sudden, the stage means nothing to me, and I don't. And I don't care, and I don't want to act anymore, and it's all meaningless. And like I. I now know what real life is. And she thinks that that's joyful. And Dorian says to her, you. Well, you have no worth to me now. So he drops her immediately and shuns her. And the moment he does that, he notices his portrait has started to turn. And the next day, Sibylvain takes her life. But the guilt and pain of that does not rest on Dorian's shoulders. He discards it pretty immediately. And he continues to live his life and gets into more debaucherous affairs over the next 18 years. And he stores his portrait in the attic of his home so no one can see it. And over the years, the portrait morphs and mutates and again takes on all of his actions and his age and his time, and he remains the same. And as he's doing that Dorian. Dorian's soul starts to slip, and he becomes a shell of a person and spoiler alert by the end, he goes insane, Decides that he has to. He wants to unburden himself of all of the sin that he's had, but he can't because he's doing by. He's not unburdening his sins because it's the right thing to do. He's doing it so he can feel unashamed again and be light. It's ultimately due to selfish acts. And so in his mind, the only way to cleanse himself of all of this is to purge and confess and. And destroy the painting of him. I should also say, by the way, that Dorian also commits murder. Dorian also blackmails an old friend of his into helping him cover up the murder. And then that friend takes their own life afterwards because they can't deal with the guilt. And so it all culminates with Dorian deciding that he's going to destroy his painting. And in doing so, the painting actually reverts back to its original incarnation of the beautiful Dorian when he was 20. And Dorian himself is stabbed and his body is ravaged with all of the time and sin that the painting once took on has been reverted back to him. And that's what the story of the Picture of Dorian Gray is about. This production, Sarah Snook plays all the characters, and this production also is its point of view is to use multimedia to the nth degree and really push what. What live theater can do with multimedia. There's a giant screen LED screen in the center of the stage that is on stage the majority of the time. It moves around. From time to time, they've lifted back up into the flies for Sarah to kind of take the stage in the second half of the play a little bit more. And there's elements of scenery that do come in and out.
- [29:28]
Matt Koplik
But I would argue for what is.
- [29:30]
Podcast Co-host
A two hour piece, you only really see Sarah Snook in front of your eyes. Plainly, for about 30% of it, 70% of the play, you're only sort of really watching her on that screen or on smaller screens that also float in and out. Because as I said, there are camera operators who are following her the entire time. Now, without giving away too much about how the cameras and the screens work, that is not to say that you're always watching Sarah Snook mutate to different roles in front of your eyes all the time. If this is how it begins, you watch her play three different characters, Basil, Harry and Dorian, and watch her, you know, with very little makeup, very little wigs, very little costume, just become each character separately with distinct voices and tics that make complete sense to us. And then eventually different camera angles help us differentiate who she is portraying at any given moment. As well as portraying just the narrator, because she's also narrating all of the story written by Wilde, or a condensed version of the story, I should say. And as the play continues, it starts to throw the audience and surprise the audience with new ways that we see Sarah Snook take on each character and interact with all of the characters in a scene. Because there's at least one scene where she has to play about eight different characters at a dining room table. And suffice it to say, she portrays.
- [31:06]
Matt Koplik
Each character, but not all in real time.
- [31:11]
Podcast Co-host
Take of that what you will. They make great usage of the multimedia and they take great advantage of filming.
- [31:21]
Matt Koplik
Maybe not everything that is filmed is.
- [31:23]
Podcast Co-host
Filmed in real time in front of your eyes. There might be some performances of hers that are pre recorded and sliced and meshed together with Live performance. Again, not telling you exactly how that works or when it is used, but it is used very effectively and it is used very creatively. And it took me by surprise. And it was an impressive feat of technology, creativity and talent of how this all blended together. What people have been complaining about since the show opened because it got mostly strong reviews. A couple of mixed reviews, including one from Jesse Green in the New York Times. And a lot of people dismissing his review, especially in connection to some of the positive reviews he's recently given. This is why when you are a critic, you have to be really fucking discerning, right?
- [32:18]
Matt Koplik
Because I read Jesse Green's review and.
- [32:20]
Podcast Co-host
I will tell you as I go on to my own opinions of this. I don't think he's entirely wrong about Picture of Dorian Gray. I liked it more than he did. But his points are fair and what he finds works about the show and impressive about the show I did as well. The things that bothered him also bothered me. Not as intensely as it bothered him, but it is ultimately what I said about this production is I was impressed almost consistently. I was engaged most of the time.
- [32:54]
Matt Koplik
I was never really moved.
- [32:56]
Podcast Co-host
And I don't mean emotionally like brought to tears. I just mean my engagement came from the impressiveness of the feat. But not necessarily an engagement with the story or even character. There are times when Picture of Dorian Gray can be very overwhelming. As a production, a lot is happening very quickly. Sarah Snook has to plow through narration at 100 miles per hour. As she gets to each different character in each different part of the stage. She's running all over the stage. She's running through the theater. The camera operators are going with her. There are a million different checkpoints she has to be at. She has to fly in and out of wigs and costumes at a moment's notice. She has to interact with video projections of herself playing different characters. She has to do it down to a specific timing because it's all set, you know, in motion there. She has to deal with possible glitches.
- [33:51]
Matt Koplik
And again, it's very, very impressive and.
- [33:53]
Podcast Co-host
It'S often very engaging.
- [33:55]
Matt Koplik
But it's not for me. It did not necessarily pull me into.
- [33:58]
Podcast Co-host
The story, but it pulled me into the production. Does that make sense? And that's something that Jesse Green is sort of getting at with his review. The problem is, is that about a month ago, Jesse Green gave Redwood a critics pick and gushed about a musical.
- [34:11]
Matt Koplik
That I don't know what the fuck.
- [34:12]
Podcast Co-host
He thought he saw. But it wasn't Redwood. And because he did that, because he gave critics picks to Our Town and you know, critics pick to Gypsy, but not to Sunset Boulevard, audiences that are flocking to one thing and maybe not another are taking his opinions less seriously. And listen, I barely take him seriously.
- [34:34]
Matt Koplik
As I said, he's right.
- [34:35]
Podcast Co-host
Like three times a year, a broken clock is right every now and then. But this is a case where I.
- [34:40]
Matt Koplik
Read his Hills of California review.
- [34:42]
Podcast Co-host
I was like, yes, he understood this so well.
- [34:44]
Matt Koplik
And then I read his Redwood review and I'm like, how is it that.
- [34:47]
Podcast Co-host
You are the chief critic of the Times?
- [34:49]
Matt Koplik
What the fuck did you see?
- [34:51]
Podcast Co-host
This is objectively bad material and mediocre stagecraft. Picture of Dorian Gray is very intelligent, well crafted storytelling and exceptional stagecraft. It's. It can be argued on my end, it is a little cold, it's a little rushed. It's. Again, it's more impressive than overwhelmingly moving.
- [35:16]
Matt Koplik
And that doesn't have to be a.
- [35:17]
Podcast Co-host
Bad thing, I would argue. Some people maybe are so overwhelmingly impressed by the feat that that carries over to any maybe emotional connection they think they might have with it. I'm not here to project, but.
- [35:34]
Matt Koplik
Everyone.
- [35:34]
Podcast Co-host
Has their pockets of art that cater to what they love and what interests them, right?
- [35:46]
Matt Koplik
And I think there are a lot.
- [35:47]
Podcast Co-host
Of theatergoers who are hungry for something new and something exciting and something different. And Dorian Gray.
- [35:53]
Matt Koplik
It's not that Dorian Gray does something different.
- [35:56]
Podcast Co-host
It's just that Dorian Gray takes what we've been doing and pushes it to a new height. And it's really fascinating to see all the ways in which they are able to accomplish what they are accomplishing.
- [36:11]
Matt Koplik
It's also a production that is very.
- [36:14]
Podcast Co-host
Not just stylized, but it's got a very sardonic attitude towards the material. And this is Oscar Wilde, who was a sarcastic fuck. Right.
- [36:23]
Matt Koplik
But there's a lot of the story.
- [36:25]
Podcast Co-host
Of Dorian Gray that is really sad and really despairing and harrowing. But because of the way that this production both comments on the material as well as comments on its own presentation, the whole thing just feels like a comment on and not a performance of. Again, a very exciting performance, very exciting commenting of, but not one that necessarily sticks with me in a. Oh, like this hit me in my soul. This hit me in my core. So much as I thought, you know.
- [37:08]
Matt Koplik
The doors have now been blown open.
- [37:10]
Podcast Co-host
Of what else we can do on a stage on a creative level. And Jesse Green's review acknowledges this and, and both opines and praises this. We're talking about all the ways in which you can express a story on stage here, right? And there's this sort of argument being made about multimedia, about camera work. Part of what makes theater thrilling is theater is live, and it's in front of you, and you are connecting with characters not far physically from you. The more of a remove you give it, the less immediate it starts to feel, the less passionate you can feel about it.
- [37:59]
Matt Koplik
And I look at this production similar to how we were talking about love.
- [38:03]
Podcast Co-host
Life at Encores, as well as, you know, love life in 1948.
- [38:06]
Matt Koplik
This is an experiment, and there's so much success that comes out of this.
- [38:09]
Podcast Co-host
Experiment that the times that I feel.
- [38:12]
Matt Koplik
It doesn't succeed, I don't look at.
- [38:14]
Podcast Co-host
It as a failure so much as a learning curve. We see multimedia being used in Sunset Boulevard. We see it being used in maybe Happy Ending. And you really don't want to lose the immediate live elements of theater when you're doing stuff like what Picture of Dorian Gray is doing. And ultimately, I did not feel involved in the piece. I felt like a captive spectator, but.
- [38:47]
Matt Koplik
Not in the way of, you're watching who's Afraid of Virginia Woolf?
- [38:49]
Podcast Co-host
And you feel like you're a fly on the wall of these real people's living room. I am here for continually experimenting with theater and what we can do with it.
- [38:58]
Matt Koplik
But this isn't really experimenting with subject matter or storylines or who in the.
- [39:04]
Podcast Co-host
World should we be writing stuff about? And how nuanced can we get with it? There's nothing really nuanced about this production of Picture of Dorian Gray. It has artistry and inventiveness coming out of its butt.
- [39:18]
Matt Koplik
There's not a lot of humanity to it.
- [39:20]
Podcast Co-host
And ultimately, it is a story about one man's descent out of humanity into vulgarity and debauchery. And at some point, it can get to also sensory overload, where you might mistake being overwhelmed for being moved. You know, being overwhelmed with emotion or intellect or having your sense of comfort and your sense of self and perspective pushed by a story and by a character and by themes, as opposed to your senses getting so doused with color and sound and projection. That overwhelming feeling you have, you might mistake for all the other things you would get from a stage play. Right? I'm talking myself into circles as I think about this. The question also is just sort of, what does this do for the Tonys? Right? That's what everyone wants to know, is like, how does this enter the Tony chat? Sarah Snook Is all is going to win the Tony for Best Actress in a play. Between us, I still would probably vote for Laura Donnelly. It is the. It's the multimedia of it all that makes me impressed by what Sarah does. And ultimately everything that she. All the plates she has to spin is incredibly impressive. Not just the overwhelming text she has to know and the character she has to portray, but all the other elements of the production that are going around her that she has to be aware of and not make it feel like busywork. She is always involved in it and she's always dropped in and engaged and focused. But it is just so much to do. And as I said, sometimes there's just a remove from it. And I'm sure there are people who will take the pre recorded elements of her performance as a ding against her. I don't necessarily look that as a ding. It is still her performance. But at the end of the day, it's Laura Donnelly's performance that I still think about in a way that hits me hard. And I will not be mad that Sarah wins. She's absolutely my number two in this category. But she's going to get nominated. She's going to win. There's talk of a nomination for direction.
- [41:42]
Matt Koplik
I think that's also possible.
- [41:44]
Podcast Co-host
I think what makes it tricky is.
- [41:45]
Matt Koplik
I don't think that this is going.
- [41:46]
Podcast Co-host
To get nominated for best play. And it's hard dirt to be nominated for director when you don't have a play nomination as well. It happens. Like we saw Bart Sher and Eva Van Hoffe get nominated for director for To Kill a Mockingbird Network and those did not get a Best play nomination. So that can absolutely happen. With Kip Williams here, I think we'll see a lot of tech categories. Sound, lighting, costumes, probably set design as well. And they'll almost definitely win sound, they'll probably win lighting, they might even win costumes. It's, you know, this is going to be a cultural event of the season and I think it'll be remembered over time.
- [42:23]
Matt Koplik
But I think the conversation about it will also center not just around like.
- [42:27]
Podcast Co-host
Oh, this was good, or oh, did you see it? But rather like, did you find that to be theater? Did this just start to feel like a movie? At what point do we embrace another medium so much that we just start to become that medium?
- [42:43]
Matt Koplik
Which I do think is also something.
- [42:44]
Podcast Co-host
That Jesse Green tried to touch on in his review. Not terribly well, but did try to touch on. He also touches on how ultimately what we're watching isn't even really Dorian Gray. We're watching this sort of cheeky multimedia presentation inspired by Dorian Gray. And I think there's some fairness to that. I think certain emotional elements of the story are played for laughs, like the Sybil Vane stuff is ultimately played for laughs, which is unfortunate. I think that that character is far more fascinating than this production would have you believe.
- [43:15]
Matt Koplik
But I think that.
- [43:18]
Podcast Co-host
Or at least what I hope is as we continue exploring and experimenting with all the different elements of tech to involve in a stage piece, that we don't just go down one specific road of, well, we got to use more of it and more of it because that's what audiences are expecting. Audiences are expecting the unexpected. They.
- [43:41]
Matt Koplik
The best things and the things that have.
- [43:43]
Podcast Co-host
Have done well on Broadway with longevity's sake, both in terms of running for a long time and also having a legacy after they close are things that people. People getting what they wanted, but not how they expected. I tie this into White Lotus with the plotline between Saxon and Lachlan. And if you don't watch White Lotus, I won't spoil it too much, but just to say there was a breaking point in their storyline last week on the ship, on the. On the yacht that they were on. And it was exactly what I wanted in terms of I predicted this breaking point happening in their storyline when they first introduced it at the beginning of the season. And so this breaking point was what I wanted, but it wasn't what I expected or how I expected. And that is a magic trick that you have to pull off as an.
- [44:33]
Matt Koplik
Artist, as any kind of creative.
- [44:35]
Podcast Co-host
And I think Dorian Gray does do.
- [44:37]
Matt Koplik
A lot of that.
- [44:37]
Podcast Co-host
It gives you a lot of the unexpected. Eventually, though, it gets to a point of such over saturation that you kind of hit a plateau with it. And the last 20 minutes are not necessarily surprising in a story that is actually quite surprising. And if this is a new boundary pushing production of multimedia, let us as creatives see that for inspiration, but not necessarily as a guiding light. In the same way that a lot of designers go to Fashion Week and see Avant garde Runway and bring that towards their designs for off the Rack Ready to Wear Fashion for people, you know, basics like me who go to Banana Republic and Gap, I would love it if artists and creatives can see things like Picture of Dorian Gray and.
- [45:30]
Matt Koplik
Be inspired while not necessarily going, oh.
- [45:32]
Podcast Co-host
This is the new norm, because I.
- [45:34]
Matt Koplik
Don'T think it should be.
- [45:35]
Podcast Co-host
It works mostly for this because of the specific concept and attitude they have on the material, but it also has its downsides. And it's very easy to feel slightly removed from this piece and be impressed, but not necessarily movingly engaged. I'm trying to think, what else. There's a fun blip in Dorian Gray. I won't spoil it too much, but there is a reference to Barbara Harris with the Apple Tree. And I was the only one in the theater who clocked that it was happening. It made me feel very special. But also it's added to the list of times that I was the only person in the theater who had an audible response to something. Again, without giving too much away, there's a music cue and the music cue transitions into a different music cue. And at the end of that different music cue, I thought to myself, huh, that sounds like the intro to this one song from the Apple Tree. And then the song begins. But no, they draw out the beginning of it. So you just hear the first half of a lyric. And I knew what the song was. I knew that I was right in my apple tree assessment. And I let out a very loud guffaw. I was the only one in the theater. No one was paying attention to me. They were all paying attention to the screen. But I felt very alone, similar to when I laughed in the middle of the New Amsterdam Theater during Aladdin at the Chosen People line. And my laugh ricocheted throughout that 1700 seat house. Ultimately, I do recommend picture of Dorian Gray. I went in being told by a lot of people, this is one of the best things I've ever seen and I'll remember it for always. And I don't doubt that. I do not think that these people are lying. And I think they will will remember it for always. It is not one of the best things I've ever seen.
- [47:14]
Matt Koplik
Again, on a technical level, it's one.
- [47:16]
Podcast Co-host
Of the most impressive things I've ever seen and I'm so glad I saw it. I recommend seeing it and I'm not mad at the idea of Sarah Snook winning. I'm not mad at the idea of them winning. Lighting and sound. There is so much to recommend about it. It's not for me an absolute 10 out of 10. I wouldn't even really give it a 9 out of 10.
- [47:38]
Matt Koplik
But it's. I think I would rank it in.
- [47:40]
Podcast Co-host
My top five or six this season so far. It's tricky to place it above plays like English, O Mary and Hills of California that rely on all elements of live theater without a technical marvel at its. At its beck and call to constantly throw an audience off its axis. Which makes me. It makes it sound like I think negatively of Dorian Gray for doing so. I don't Again, I said I think they apply the multimedia elements of the show very well, but that alone does not make me place it at the very top. I enjoyed it.
- [48:24]
Matt Koplik
I recommend it.
- [48:25]
Podcast Co-host
I was impressed. I think people who are angry about Jesse Green's review have a right to be frustrated. But also, if you take away his redwood critics pick and he and I need to have a sit down and actually talk about this shit because he's given some critics picks this season that make no sense to me. And he needs to think a lot more carefully about how people are going to perceive his takes because every now and then he gets it right.
- [48:50]
Matt Koplik
But people don't listen to when he.
- [48:52]
Podcast Co-host
Gets it right because he got it super wrong two reviews earlier. But if you take the redwood away of it and actually read what he has to say about Dorian Gray, he. He is complimentary, but he's also talking about why he's left cold by it. And I don't think that that's something to disregard. You don't have to agree with someone to find merit in what they have to say. I disagreed with Jesse so hard on so many things this season, and maybe it's because I lightly agreed with him on Dorian Gray, but I read that review.
- [49:24]
Matt Koplik
I was like you. You're not. You have some points to be made here.
- [49:27]
Podcast Co-host
I wish you were better at expressing them, but you are making some solid cases here. So that is what I have to say. Ultimately, Dorian Gray, I would give it out of two thumbs up, a thumb and a half up. Strongly recommend about a must see, but not a total must see for me. If you're wondering, oh, should I pay X amount of money to see it? Maybe? I mean, when compared to things like Goodnight and Good Luck and Othello, I think that you're gonna get a better bang for your buck with Picture of Dorian Gray. For sure. If you're going to compare it to something like a maybe happy ending or even a sunset, I would say I think you're getting a little more for those two shows and not just because they're musicals, but because I found more of a human engagement with those than I did with Dorian Gray. But yeah, once again, I think that the plays are ultimately usurping the musicals this season. And I think we can add Dorian Gray to the list of a overall successful dramatic entry. I don't know if I would nominate.
- [50:35]
Matt Koplik
It for best play right now.
- [50:36]
Podcast Co-host
I still have this week. I've got John Proctor as the villain and purpose to get to and I'll see how I feel about Those stranger things at some point as well. I said John Proctor is the villain in purpose. Yeah, those are what I'm seeing this week. So I'm interested to see how those go off. But I mean, yeah, English Hills of California and O Mary, despite not being as overwhelmingly impressive on a technical level, I was more engaged with on a dramatic human level, which is ultimately what we keep coming back to theater for. Right? Not just to be wowed, but to be engaged. That's where I'm at with Dorian Gray.
- [51:12]
Matt Koplik
So thank you so much for listening, guys.
- [51:13]
Podcast Co-host
This has been a very long day. I recorded Tony predictions with Richie and Jeff from half hour this morning. My voice was so shot for that. So apologies for the frog in my throat. And I'm recording this right afterwards. And now I have to go out and see my grandmother to celebrate my birthday with her. And yeah, so I apologize if I felt that I was trailing off or making no sense. I wrote down some notes and I tried to go off of that and really be as focused in detail as I could.
- [51:42]
Matt Koplik
And I hope you guys enjoyed it. Even if you didn't agree with what I had to say about either love life or picture of Dorian Gray.
- [51:48]
Podcast Co-host
Just remember I did not give Redwood a critics pick. So you don't have to disregard my thoughts because of that.
- [51:52]
Matt Koplik
And yeah, I think we're gonna close.
- [51:54]
Podcast Co-host
Out with because of its inclusion in Dorian Gray, we're gonna close out with a friend and loved one of mine, at least in my head, Ms. Barbara Harris. The departed Ms. Barbara Harris. And we will see you guys later this week for Tony predictions with Jeff and Richie. So, yeah, if you like the podcast, make sure five star rating and review. You guys are killing it with the reviews these days. Follow me on Instagram at mycoplic. Usual spelling join the Discord Channel link will be in the description page for the episode.
- [52:23]
Matt Koplik
And that's it.
- [52:23]
Podcast Co-host
We will see you in a couple of days.
- [52:25]
Matt Koplik
Take it away, Barbara. Bye.
- [52:28]
Eric Cartman
I will give it to you. And when I give it to you, you will shine for joy and so will.