Broadway Breakdown – Episode Summary

Episode Title: Matt Reviews: The Queen of Versailles (both of ‘em), Ragtime & A Conversation with Teale Dvornik

Date: December 4, 2025
Host: Matt Koplik | Guest: Teale Dvornik

Overview

This jam-packed episode features Matt’s famously sharp and passionate reviews of the newest Broadway musical The Queen of Versailles (with both Kristin Chenoweth and Sheri René Scott starring!), a critical look at the Lincoln Center revival of Ragtime, and an extended, joyous interview with dresser-author-Backstage Blonde Teale Dvornik, whose new book uncovers the secret history of Broadway’s theaters. Expect expert analysis, hot takes, deep historical context, healthy doses of sass, and plenty of memorable one-liners.

Queen of Versailles: The Musical – Double Review

Timestamps:
Start: 01:27 | Deep Dive: 08:22 | Chenoweth vs. Scott: 21:17 | Broadway Landscape & Tony Odds: 36:42

Main Discussion Points

Show Context & History:
- Based on the documentary about billionaire couple Jackie and David Siegel’s failed effort to build the largest house in America, modeled on Versailles.
- Creative Team: Book by Lindsey Ferrentino, score by Stephen Schwartz (his first since Wicked), directed by Michael Arden.
- Major Cast: Kristin Chenoweth originated Jackie, F. Murray Abraham as David Siegel, replaced mid-run by Sheri René Scott as Jackie.
- Noted for a swift Broadway closure: “already been announced that Queen of Versailles is closing the first week of January after 65 performances ... the critical reception was mostly negative.” (03:31)
Comparison with “Assassins”:
- Matt draws a parallel with the musical Assassins, which was also critically lambasted for humanizing “unlikeable” characters but ultimately gained acclaim with time.
- “The response being to the creative team, how dare you write a musical about this? ... Assassins, of course, has now gone on to be a much more beloved piece ... What has changed? Well, part of it is that we’re more used to the show now ...” (06:01–07:40)
Thematic Critiques:
- “Why write a musical about billionaires now?” is not a serious artistic criticism but a product of social mood.
- Matt argues that the real issue is not the subject matter or empathy for unlikeable characters, but the musical’s failure to fully cohere both thematically and tonally.
- “Jackie Siegel is a selfish woman ... but she is a person. She is not a cartoon character ... she has had a lot of tragedy.” (15:18)
Difference in Lead Performers:
- Kristin Chenoweth’s interpretation “so eager for love and acceptance from an audience ... in a far trickier, multifaceted satire, it does not give you the tension you need to understand the tone.” (20:10)
- Sheri René Scott: “You are laughing at this woman and begrudgingly rooting for her, which adds much more complicated feelings for an audience ... Scott understands that in order to do satire ... you have to be comfortable with an audience not liking you.” (21:23)
- Notable Quote:
  - “A leading character being likable, I think is a stupid mandate. They have to be watchable, they have to be compelling.” – Matt (23:46)
Jackie Siegel as a Dramatic Subject:
- Matt argues Jackie is not inherently a rich enough character to hang an epic or truly compelling musical on: “She is not a Little Edie in Grey Gardens ... Even with Sheri René Scott playing her, Scott cannot make Jackie Siegel a bold enough leading role.” (24:48)
The Show’s Satirical Intent vs. Execution:
- Attempts to parallel the follies of Versailles with American excess; the addition of French royals as a satirical device “doesn’t tie in intricately enough … it’s a bit of a forced message, so it doesn’t land.”
- Certain songs and devices are “meant to be played for laughs,” not to be earnestly critiqued for lack of realism, but satire “ultimately doesn’t land.”
Stephen Schwartz’s Score:
- Songs show personality; highlights and memorable motifs, but Schwartz’s melodic optimism may not fit a story that “needs a harder edge.”
- Notable Quote:
  - “Schwartz’s music is a little too … optimistic and Broadway ... doesn’t have the hardened edge you’d want for a satire like this.” (30:48)
Tony Award Forecast:
- Likely nominations: Best Score, Actress (especially for Chenoweth), and Design categories.
- “Probably no wins in any of those categories ... but that’s where we’re at.” (36:42)

Ragtime at Lincoln Center – Revival Review

Timestamps:
Start: 38:59 | Thematic Deep-Dive: 46:34 | Cast Breakdown: 65:35 | Conclusion & Tony Odds: 77:55

Main Discussion Points

Historical & Structural Context:
- “Ragtime is the Tony-winning musical … a time where America is going through a great deal of changes. It is a lot. It is a great deal of story. It is a great deal of characters.” (38:59–44:58)
- Balances multiple plot lines: Mother’s family, Sarah and Coalhouse, the immigrant Tata – reflecting on the promise and betrayals of the American Dream.
Matt’s Complex Relationship with ‘Ragtime’:
- “This has never been one of my musicals ... I love the score ... I get very moved, I even cry a little ... Every time I’ve watched Ragtime, I am not moved to tears. The music grabs me, but in the theater, not so much.”
- Praises the iconic opening number: “Probably, objectively, the greatest opening number in musical theater history ... it’s just a perfect number.”
Critique of the Musical’s Tone & Legacy:
- Questions the notion of “important theater” and the idea Broadway changes minds: “Congratulations white audiences ... you understand all of the bad stuff in this show ... It is very much a musical to me that has always felt like, congratulations white audiences. You understand all of the bad stuff in this show. You understand when the racism is happening. ... but then all is sort of swept under the rug in the last 20 minutes for the sake of uplifting, motivational, send out the audience on a high note.” (47:12)
- The musical adapts the story with more optimism than Doctorow’s novel: “Most of the events … happen in Ragtime the novel. But ... it is not aspirational, it is not motivational, it is not optimistic, it is not moving. It is done in a very distanced, almost cold kind of way ... The musical paints Coalhouse as a tragic hero, which he is not.” (51:00)
Production & Directing Critique:
- Mixed feelings about set and staging: “I don’t need a grand set design for anything. What I need is a design in total that has a point of view ... This design is ugly. It is a very ugly set ... lacks a point of view.”
- Staging often undermines tension and clarity; awkward moments with turntable/donut staging and actor movements, though there are moments of fluidity and effective use of space.
Performance Analysis:
- Casey Levy as Mother: “Finds an arc... comfortable stoicism ... the reckoning.”
- Colin Donnell: “Sounds a little too modern ... not a match with the style of the score.”
- Ben Levi Ross: “Has the passion ... but ... how he says the lines, I’m like, you sound like you’ve seen an iPhone. ... bugs the shit out of me.” (69:04)
- Joshua Henry and Nichelle Lewis: “They really, truly share the stage together ... Wheels of a Dream feels like a genuine duet and which is also why it’s one of the major highlights of the evening.” (72:24)
- Sarah (Nichelle Lewis): “Good as it is ... not as impactful without someone like Audra McDonald. ... Nichelle is very talented and proving to be a very promising addition to the Broadway community.”
Ragtime’s Resonance Today:
- “For me ... Ragtime feels more important now than ever to some people and feels more like a lie and performative to people than ever. I do not think it's performative. I think it’s very earnest ... but that doesn’t mean that I get emotional from the story.”
- Notes logistical oddities (e.g. baby never aging onstage).
Tony Award Forecast:
- Expected nominations: Best Revival, Actor (Joshua Henry), Actress (Casey Levy), Featured Actor (Brandon Uranowitz, Ben Levi Ross), Lighting, Costumes, possibly Direction and Choreography.
- Overall: “A perfectly fine revival ... I do not find it magnificent in the way that others do.”

In Conversation: Teale Dvornik (The Backstage Blonde)

Get to Know Teale

How She Got Started:
- “I was majoring in fashion ... transferred to Stanford; the closest thing to fashion was costume design. I worked on Richard III ... absolutely fell in love. From the age of 19, I was like, I’m gonna work on Broadway.” (84:21)
- First Broadway job: Dresser at Wicked — “...it was an incredible experience. By working at Wicked, I felt like I could conquer anything.”
Backstage Costume Details:
- Glinda’s bubble dress: “sequins are constantly falling off ... all hand-sewn ... the dresser has to constantly re-add them.” (85:23)
- Little noticed details: Mob/steampunk hats with gears for the set, and “the Shiz University costumes use leather and faux animal fur, which is a twisted touch because of the suppression of Animals in Oz.” (86:03)
The Book: “History Hiding Around Broadway”
- Inspired by backstage stories and her experience as a licensed New York tour guide (“I had to take a 200 question test!”).
- Surprising fact: Engineers at Nederlander theaters hide a Playbill from current shows inside the walls — “like a little time capsule for someone to find at some point.” (91:59)
- Favorite theater? New Amsterdam: “I consider it to be the birthplace of Broadway. ... It’s lush and opulent.”
- Loved researching the changing architecture, quirks of “sliver” theaters, and unique details that aren’t online.
Technical and Business Side:
- The logistics of old Broadway houses adapting to modern spectacles; how theaters’ architecture and technology has evolved.
- Broadway is a business first: “Broadway is a shopping mall ... you can’t just show up with a show ... the theater has to choose you back. It’s like sorority rush.” (100:25)
- “There is no Mr. Broadway. There is no Michael Douglas in Wall Street sitting in his office being like, ‘close that show.’” (100:25)
Fan and Insider Observations:
- The importance of understanding Broadway as a business, and how timing, economics, and luck affect what gets staged.
- Shows like Book of Mormon and Wicked as “gateway drugs” for new Broadway fans.
Notable Quotes:
- On backstage nuttiness: “Truly, these theaters are like an ant hill. There are people in and out of them all day long ... they’re rehearsing just as much as the actors are.” (92:40)
- “Broadway is highbrow gambling ... it’s kind of like owning a horse at the Kentucky Derby ... sometimes the horse that’s projected to win doesn’t.” (103:24)
Personal Faves:
- Play: Stereophonic (“rocked my world, wanted it to be longer, and it was already a three hour show.”)
- Musicals: Miss Saigon, Great Comet (“a deep cut ... felt edgy and cool for liking it”), plus love for “gateway” hits.
- Guilty pleasure: “Loved American Psycho ... kind of my Diana.”

Memorable Moments & Quotes

On Satire vs. Likeability:
“A leading character being likable, I think is a stupid mandate. They have to be watchable, they have to be compelling.” – Matt ([23:46])
Shade on Set Design:
“This design is ugly. It is a very ugly set ... lacks a point of view.” – Matt ([57:48])
Broadway as a Business:
“Broadway is a shopping mall ... it’s like sorority rush. You put in your bid for what you want, but they have to want you too.” – Teale ([100:25])
Ultimate Broadway Fan Energy:
“No one’s going to raw dog Hedda Gabler.” – Teale ([105:20])
Diana/Great Comet/American Psycho love-in:
“I still miss Diana the musical every day. ... I saw Diana twice, and I thought it was delightful.” – Matt & Teale

Key Takeaways

Queen of Versailles is neither a triumph nor a complete disaster, but a bold experiment with a muddled tone, improved but not saved by Scott’s edgier performance; its critical rejection is more about what doesn’t land than any inherent “wrongness” of wealthy antiheroes on stage.
Ragtime revival is musically stirring but marred by awkward design and some direction/staging choices. Its “important” status feels self-congratulatory; the contemporary relevance is complex.
Teale Dvornik’s new book is a lovingly researched, witty, and accessible exploration of what makes Broadway’s venues unique, the unsung heroes behind the curtains, and theater as a lived, ever-evolving history. She’s both a diehard fan and a tough-minded industry insider.
Broadway remains, above all, a quirky, unpredictable, high-stakes business built atop rich traditions, stranger-than-fiction history, and the eternal charisma of its characters—onstage and off.

Jump to Segments

Queen of Versailles Review: 01:27–38:59
Ragtime Review: 38:59–83:01
Teale Dvornik Interview: 83:39–End

For More:

Follow Matt on Instagram (@mattkoplik)
Order "History Hiding Around Broadway" at local indie bookstores, Bookshop.org, Amazon, B&N, or, in NYC, at The Strand and McNally Jackson.
Follow Teale Dvornik on TikTok/Instagram @thebackstageblonde

Next Week:
Part two of the "Great Comet" deep dive with Natalie Walker!

Broadway Breakdown – Episode Summary

Episode Title: Matt Reviews: The Queen of Versailles (both of ‘em), Ragtime & A Conversation with Teale Dvornik

Date: December 4, 2025
Host: Matt Koplik | Guest: Teale Dvornik

Overview

Queen of Versailles: The Musical – Double Review

Timestamps:
Start: 01:27 | Deep Dive: 08:22 | Chenoweth vs. Scott: 21:17 | Broadway Landscape & Tony Odds: 36:42

Main Discussion Points

Show Context & History:
- Based on the documentary about billionaire couple Jackie and David Siegel’s failed effort to build the largest house in America, modeled on Versailles.
- Creative Team: Book by Lindsey Ferrentino, score by Stephen Schwartz (his first since Wicked), directed by Michael Arden.
- Major Cast: Kristin Chenoweth originated Jackie, F. Murray Abraham as David Siegel, replaced mid-run by Sheri René Scott as Jackie.
- Noted for a swift Broadway closure: “already been announced that Queen of Versailles is closing the first week of January after 65 performances ... the critical reception was mostly negative.” (03:31)
Comparison with “Assassins”:
- Matt draws a parallel with the musical Assassins, which was also critically lambasted for humanizing “unlikeable” characters but ultimately gained acclaim with time.
- “The response being to the creative team, how dare you write a musical about this? ... Assassins, of course, has now gone on to be a much more beloved piece ... What has changed? Well, part of it is that we’re more used to the show now ...” (06:01–07:40)
Thematic Critiques:
- “Why write a musical about billionaires now?” is not a serious artistic criticism but a product of social mood.
- Matt argues that the real issue is not the subject matter or empathy for unlikeable characters, but the musical’s failure to fully cohere both thematically and tonally.
- “Jackie Siegel is a selfish woman ... but she is a person. She is not a cartoon character ... she has had a lot of tragedy.” (15:18)
Difference in Lead Performers:
- Kristin Chenoweth’s interpretation “so eager for love and acceptance from an audience ... in a far trickier, multifaceted satire, it does not give you the tension you need to understand the tone.” (20:10)
- Sheri René Scott: “You are laughing at this woman and begrudgingly rooting for her, which adds much more complicated feelings for an audience ... Scott understands that in order to do satire ... you have to be comfortable with an audience not liking you.” (21:23)
- Notable Quote:
  - “A leading character being likable, I think is a stupid mandate. They have to be watchable, they have to be compelling.” – Matt (23:46)
Jackie Siegel as a Dramatic Subject:
- Matt argues Jackie is not inherently a rich enough character to hang an epic or truly compelling musical on: “She is not a Little Edie in Grey Gardens ... Even with Sheri René Scott playing her, Scott cannot make Jackie Siegel a bold enough leading role.” (24:48)
The Show’s Satirical Intent vs. Execution:
- Attempts to parallel the follies of Versailles with American excess; the addition of French royals as a satirical device “doesn’t tie in intricately enough … it’s a bit of a forced message, so it doesn’t land.”
- Certain songs and devices are “meant to be played for laughs,” not to be earnestly critiqued for lack of realism, but satire “ultimately doesn’t land.”
Stephen Schwartz’s Score:
- Songs show personality; highlights and memorable motifs, but Schwartz’s melodic optimism may not fit a story that “needs a harder edge.”
- Notable Quote:
  - “Schwartz’s music is a little too … optimistic and Broadway ... doesn’t have the hardened edge you’d want for a satire like this.” (30:48)
Tony Award Forecast:
- Likely nominations: Best Score, Actress (especially for Chenoweth), and Design categories.
- “Probably no wins in any of those categories ... but that’s where we’re at.” (36:42)

Ragtime at Lincoln Center – Revival Review

Timestamps:
Start: 38:59 | Thematic Deep-Dive: 46:34 | Cast Breakdown: 65:35 | Conclusion & Tony Odds: 77:55

Main Discussion Points

Historical & Structural Context:
- “Ragtime is the Tony-winning musical … a time where America is going through a great deal of changes. It is a lot. It is a great deal of story. It is a great deal of characters.” (38:59–44:58)
- Balances multiple plot lines: Mother’s family, Sarah and Coalhouse, the immigrant Tata – reflecting on the promise and betrayals of the American Dream.
Matt’s Complex Relationship with ‘Ragtime’:
- “This has never been one of my musicals ... I love the score ... I get very moved, I even cry a little ... Every time I’ve watched Ragtime, I am not moved to tears. The music grabs me, but in the theater, not so much.”
- Praises the iconic opening number: “Probably, objectively, the greatest opening number in musical theater history ... it’s just a perfect number.”
Critique of the Musical’s Tone & Legacy:
- Questions the notion of “important theater” and the idea Broadway changes minds: “Congratulations white audiences ... you understand all of the bad stuff in this show ... It is very much a musical to me that has always felt like, congratulations white audiences. You understand all of the bad stuff in this show. You understand when the racism is happening. ... but then all is sort of swept under the rug in the last 20 minutes for the sake of uplifting, motivational, send out the audience on a high note.” (47:12)
- The musical adapts the story with more optimism than Doctorow’s novel: “Most of the events … happen in Ragtime the novel. But ... it is not aspirational, it is not motivational, it is not optimistic, it is not moving. It is done in a very distanced, almost cold kind of way ... The musical paints Coalhouse as a tragic hero, which he is not.” (51:00)
Production & Directing Critique:
- Mixed feelings about set and staging: “I don’t need a grand set design for anything. What I need is a design in total that has a point of view ... This design is ugly. It is a very ugly set ... lacks a point of view.”
- Staging often undermines tension and clarity; awkward moments with turntable/donut staging and actor movements, though there are moments of fluidity and effective use of space.
Performance Analysis:
- Casey Levy as Mother: “Finds an arc... comfortable stoicism ... the reckoning.”
- Colin Donnell: “Sounds a little too modern ... not a match with the style of the score.”
- Ben Levi Ross: “Has the passion ... but ... how he says the lines, I’m like, you sound like you’ve seen an iPhone. ... bugs the shit out of me.” (69:04)
- Joshua Henry and Nichelle Lewis: “They really, truly share the stage together ... Wheels of a Dream feels like a genuine duet and which is also why it’s one of the major highlights of the evening.” (72:24)
- Sarah (Nichelle Lewis): “Good as it is ... not as impactful without someone like Audra McDonald. ... Nichelle is very talented and proving to be a very promising addition to the Broadway community.”
Ragtime’s Resonance Today:
- “For me ... Ragtime feels more important now than ever to some people and feels more like a lie and performative to people than ever. I do not think it's performative. I think it’s very earnest ... but that doesn’t mean that I get emotional from the story.”
- Notes logistical oddities (e.g. baby never aging onstage).
Tony Award Forecast:
- Expected nominations: Best Revival, Actor (Joshua Henry), Actress (Casey Levy), Featured Actor (Brandon Uranowitz, Ben Levi Ross), Lighting, Costumes, possibly Direction and Choreography.
- Overall: “A perfectly fine revival ... I do not find it magnificent in the way that others do.”

In Conversation: Teale Dvornik (The Backstage Blonde)

Get to Know Teale

How She Got Started:
- “I was majoring in fashion ... transferred to Stanford; the closest thing to fashion was costume design. I worked on Richard III ... absolutely fell in love. From the age of 19, I was like, I’m gonna work on Broadway.” (84:21)
- First Broadway job: Dresser at Wicked — “...it was an incredible experience. By working at Wicked, I felt like I could conquer anything.”
Backstage Costume Details:
- Glinda’s bubble dress: “sequins are constantly falling off ... all hand-sewn ... the dresser has to constantly re-add them.” (85:23)
- Little noticed details: Mob/steampunk hats with gears for the set, and “the Shiz University costumes use leather and faux animal fur, which is a twisted touch because of the suppression of Animals in Oz.” (86:03)
The Book: “History Hiding Around Broadway”
- Inspired by backstage stories and her experience as a licensed New York tour guide (“I had to take a 200 question test!”).
- Surprising fact: Engineers at Nederlander theaters hide a Playbill from current shows inside the walls — “like a little time capsule for someone to find at some point.” (91:59)
- Favorite theater? New Amsterdam: “I consider it to be the birthplace of Broadway. ... It’s lush and opulent.”
- Loved researching the changing architecture, quirks of “sliver” theaters, and unique details that aren’t online.
Technical and Business Side:
- The logistics of old Broadway houses adapting to modern spectacles; how theaters’ architecture and technology has evolved.
- Broadway is a business first: “Broadway is a shopping mall ... you can’t just show up with a show ... the theater has to choose you back. It’s like sorority rush.” (100:25)
- “There is no Mr. Broadway. There is no Michael Douglas in Wall Street sitting in his office being like, ‘close that show.’” (100:25)
Fan and Insider Observations:
- The importance of understanding Broadway as a business, and how timing, economics, and luck affect what gets staged.
- Shows like Book of Mormon and Wicked as “gateway drugs” for new Broadway fans.
Notable Quotes:
- On backstage nuttiness: “Truly, these theaters are like an ant hill. There are people in and out of them all day long ... they’re rehearsing just as much as the actors are.” (92:40)
- “Broadway is highbrow gambling ... it’s kind of like owning a horse at the Kentucky Derby ... sometimes the horse that’s projected to win doesn’t.” (103:24)
Personal Faves:
- Play: Stereophonic (“rocked my world, wanted it to be longer, and it was already a three hour show.”)
- Musicals: Miss Saigon, Great Comet (“a deep cut ... felt edgy and cool for liking it”), plus love for “gateway” hits.
- Guilty pleasure: “Loved American Psycho ... kind of my Diana.”

Memorable Moments & Quotes

On Satire vs. Likeability:
“A leading character being likable, I think is a stupid mandate. They have to be watchable, they have to be compelling.” – Matt ([23:46])
Shade on Set Design:
“This design is ugly. It is a very ugly set ... lacks a point of view.” – Matt ([57:48])
Broadway as a Business:
“Broadway is a shopping mall ... it’s like sorority rush. You put in your bid for what you want, but they have to want you too.” – Teale ([100:25])
Ultimate Broadway Fan Energy:
“No one’s going to raw dog Hedda Gabler.” – Teale ([105:20])
Diana/Great Comet/American Psycho love-in:
“I still miss Diana the musical every day. ... I saw Diana twice, and I thought it was delightful.” – Matt & Teale

Key Takeaways

Queen of Versailles is neither a triumph nor a complete disaster, but a bold experiment with a muddled tone, improved but not saved by Scott’s edgier performance; its critical rejection is more about what doesn’t land than any inherent “wrongness” of wealthy antiheroes on stage.
Ragtime revival is musically stirring but marred by awkward design and some direction/staging choices. Its “important” status feels self-congratulatory; the contemporary relevance is complex.
Teale Dvornik’s new book is a lovingly researched, witty, and accessible exploration of what makes Broadway’s venues unique, the unsung heroes behind the curtains, and theater as a lived, ever-evolving history. She’s both a diehard fan and a tough-minded industry insider.
Broadway remains, above all, a quirky, unpredictable, high-stakes business built atop rich traditions, stranger-than-fiction history, and the eternal charisma of its characters—onstage and off.

Jump to Segments

Queen of Versailles Review: 01:27–38:59
Ragtime Review: 38:59–83:01
Teale Dvornik Interview: 83:39–End

For More:

Follow Matt on Instagram (@mattkoplik)
Order "History Hiding Around Broadway" at local indie bookstores, Bookshop.org, Amazon, B&N, or, in NYC, at The Strand and McNally Jackson.
Follow Teale Dvornik on TikTok/Instagram @thebackstageblonde

Next Week:
Part two of the "Great Comet" deep dive with Natalie Walker!

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Matt Reviews: The Queen of Versailles (both of ‘em), Ragtime & A Conversation with Teale Dvornik

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Summary

Broadway Breakdown – Episode Summary

Episode Title: Matt Reviews: The Queen of Versailles (both of ‘em), Ragtime & A Conversation with Teale Dvornik

Overview

Queen of Versailles: The Musical – Double Review

Main Discussion Points

Ragtime at Lincoln Center – Revival Review

Main Discussion Points

In Conversation: Teale Dvornik (The Backstage Blonde)

Get to Know Teale

Memorable Moments & Quotes

Key Takeaways

Jump to Segments

Summary

Broadway Breakdown – Episode Summary

Episode Title: Matt Reviews: The Queen of Versailles (both of ‘em), Ragtime & A Conversation with Teale Dvornik

Overview

Queen of Versailles: The Musical – Double Review

Main Discussion Points

Ragtime at Lincoln Center – Revival Review

Main Discussion Points

In Conversation: Teale Dvornik (The Backstage Blonde)

Get to Know Teale

Memorable Moments & Quotes

Key Takeaways

Jump to Segments